If Lebron wins his 3rd MVP but fails to a win title this season....

[StateOfMind12]

he will be the only player in the 3+ MVP club that doesn't have a championship.

Here is the 3+ MVP club

Kareem (6)
MJ (5)
Russell (5)
Wilt (4)
Bird (3)
Dr. J (3)
Magic (3)
Moses (3)

All of these guys either won a championship in their 3rd MVP or had already won a championship. Moses and Wilt won their 1st title in their 3rd MVP and everybody else had already won a title before they won their 3rd.

I honestly think that if Lebron wins his 3rd MVP this season but doesn't win a title this season that LeBron will never receive an MVP again until after he wins a championship.

At least that is the way I think it should be but then again LeBron shouldn't even get his 3rd MVP this season but he probably will, oh well. Media rides him hard so you never know.

There is a first time for everything so it could possibly happen. I honestly think LeBron James is the Karl Malone of this era and Karl Malone was the first 2x MVP to never win a title so LeBron can replicate that and be the first 3x MVP winner to never win a title.

[Tmuston Beltics]

So he'd be the only one with 3 MVP and no ring? That's a merit right? No one else in the entire WORLD has achieved that, and there's over 7,000,000,000 people here. Think about that! :bowdown:

[Nash]

Regular season MVP has nothing to do with championship. Teams win championships, players win MVP's.

[Meticode]

So he'd be the only one with 3 MVP and no ring? That's a merit right? No one else in the entire WORLD has achieved that, and there's over 7,000,000,000 people here. Think about that! :bowdown:
Another thought, in this history of time approx 107,602,707,791 humans have lived. He'd the only human in the world, ever with 3 MVPS and no rings.

[Meticode]

Regular season MVP has nothing to do with championship. Teams win championships, players win MVP's.
Yep, Adam Morrison prime example.

[NumberSix]

I still don't think he's getting his 3rd MVP. Kevin Durant is gonna "win" it.

[creepingdeath]

Now imagine he wins his 3rd MVP, but actually manages to get a ring this year. :lebronamazed:

[cteach111]

Now imagine he wins his 3rd MVP, but actually manages to get a ring this year. :lebronamazed:

that would be my worst nightmare. its too bad it could come true :facepalm

[LakersReign]

Third MVP and getting carried by Wade to a title means nothing. He pulls yet another disappearing act like he did last year, and wins a title by default. Providing the Heat do make it to the Finals, again means nothing. Even though Lebronytes are gonna try and do everything they can to ignore that major details.:sleeping

[Kurosawa0]

Any objective fan should already regard LeBron as one of the greatest players ever. Getting a third MVP, even without a ring, only solidifies that.

[NumberSix]

Third MVP and getting carried by Wade to a title means nothing. He pulls yet another disappearing act like he did last year, and wins a title by default. Providing the Heat do make it to the Finals, again means nothing. Even though Lebronytes are gonna try and do everything they can to ignore that major details.:sleeping
ur a phaggit :lebronamazed:

[Doranku]

The best would be if he won MVP, won a title, but completely disappeared in the finals and got carried by Wade.

[NumberSix]

The best would be if he won MVP, won a title, but completely disappeared in the finals and got carried by Wade.
What about this season would make anybody think that Wade would carry anybody to anything? :confusedshrug:

[LakersReign]

Any objective fan should already regard LeBron as one of the greatest players ever. Getting a third MVP, even without a ring, only solidifies that.

Lebronytes trying to use the word objectivity is funny as hell, since they're anything but when it comes to Lebron. You can't have it both ways and any objective NBA fan knows this. If Lebron was really all that, then Lebronytes wouldn't be so obsessed with him winning 20 MVP's and 8 titles. So that they can still squeeze him in the backdoor of the Jordan conversation. What you just said makes absolutely no sense:no:

[Heavincent]

Any objective fan should already regard LeBron as one of the greatest players ever. Getting a third MVP, even without a ring, only solidifies that.

:oldlol:

[Meticode]

ur a phaggit :lebronamazed:
It's slightly true. Multiple championships in Miami wouldn't solidify his legacy as just 1 championship in Cleveland would've.

[pauk]

Unfortunately those players ended their careers / played many many many more seasons, so its way to early to make that assumption....

I mean, Lebron is 27... and has 2 and soon 3 MVPs... Jordan for example had only 1 MVP by the time he turned 27 and no championship............. so lets be a bit patient with the team accomplishments (championships) shall we? That is something one man cant control, Jordan won a championship in 1991 because his team got better... not because HE got better...

[LakersReign]

The best would be if he won MVP, won a title, but completely disappeared in the finals and got carried by Wade.


I said exactly the same thing:lol


Third MVP and getting carried by Wade to a title means nothing. He pulls yet another disappearing act like he did last year, and wins a title by default. Providing the Heat do make it to the Finals, again means nothing. Even though Lebronytes are gonna try and do everything they can to ignore that major details.:sleeping

:applause:

[NumberSix]

It's slightly true. Multiple championships in Miami wouldn't solidify his legacy as just 1 championship in Cleveland would've.
You say that now, but does anybody care that Shaq didn't win in Orlando? 15 years from now, nobody will give a shit that LeBron left Cleveland if he has multiple rings to show for it. It will be looked at as the right move.

[NumberSix]

I said exactly the same thing:lol



:applause:
Did you just quote yourself and applaud? :facepalm

[Heavincent]

I mean, Lebron is 27... and has 2 and soon 3 MVPs... Jordan for example had only 1 MVP by the time he turned 27 and no championship............. so lets be a bit patient with the team accomplishments shall we?

That's not the same thing you dumb homer. When Jordan was in his 9th season (like Lebron is now), he was putting the finishing touches on his first 3 peat.

I'm so sick of hearing Lebron stans spew that hot garbage.

[Kurosawa0]

You say that now, but does anybody care that Shaq didn't win in Orlando? 15 years from now, nobody will give a shit that LeBron left Cleveland if he has multiple rings to show for it. It will be looked at as the right move.

The only people that care now are Cleveland fans. His performance in the Finals last year will be a bigger mark against him than leaving Cleveland.

[creepingdeath]

:oldlol:
http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/misc%20bb/grand/misc-bb-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-697.gif

[stephanieg]

LeBron is more like the Wilt of SFs: physically dominant but a huge diva and with a touch of choking, fans expect them to dominate everyone and win easily, no one cares about their huge numbers because they think he should do it anyway, etc.

[LakersReign]

That's not the same thing you dumb homer. When Jordan was in his 9th season (like Lebron is now), he was putting the finishing touches on his first 3 peat.

I'm so sick of hearing Lebron stans spew that hot garbage.

They have to keep rationalizing cuz it's all they really have at this point. The fact of the matter is, Lebron is nothing like Jordan, and will never be anything like Jordan, no matter how many MVP's he gets, or how many titles he may eventually get. Straight up....point-blank...period....end-of-story.....real talk:sleeping

[Myth]

I want to see LeBron get about 6 MVPs in his career but 0 titles. :lol

[lilgodfather1]

It's slightly true. Multiple championships in Miami wouldn't solidify his legacy as just 1 championship in Cleveland would've.
If the Heat win four straight titles it would be a more historical mark than winning a title in Cleveland.

[Meticode]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/misc%20bb/grand/misc-bb-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-697.gif
:roll: wf

[Meticode]

If the Heat win four straight titles it would be a more historical mark than winning a title in Cleveland.
No.

[Meticode]

You say that now, but does anybody care that Shaq didn't win in Orlando? 15 years from now, nobody will give a shit that LeBron left Cleveland if he has multiple rings to show for it. It will be looked at as the right move.
Different situation, different circumstances. Shaq didn't play 7 years for Orlando and have it be his hometown while basically saying "I'll never leave Cleveland until I bring a championship to the city."

Plus, Shaq doesn't care. He accepts what he did and relishes. LeBron plays all nice-nice.

[PJR]

No.

If you honestly believe that you have a warped sense of reality. :oldlol:

A championship is a championship. All this sentimental bullsh*t don't mean nothing....

[Meticode]

If you honestly believe that you have a warped sense of reality. :oldlol:
Yep!

[Nash]

Lebronytes trying to use the word objectivity is funny as hell, since they're anything but when it comes to Lebron. You can't have it both ways and any objective NBA fan knows this. If Lebron was really all that, then Lebronytes wouldn't be so obsessed with him winning 20 MVP's and 8 titles. So that they can still squeeze him in the backdoor of the Jordan conversation. What you just said makes absolutely no sense:no:
Your average is 2 Lebronytes per post.

[chips93]

That's not the same thing you dumb homer. When Jordan was in his 9th season (like Lebron is now), he was putting the finishing touches on his first 3 peat.

I'm so sick of hearing Lebron stans spew that hot garbage.

and on top of that, jordan had the foundation of a game that would outlast his other worldly athleticism, that lebron does not.

he had a much more refined game, a much better post game, and was a much smarter player.

he was built for the long haul, unlike current lebron.

[RedBlackAttack]

If you honestly believe that you have a warped sense of reality. :oldlol:

A championship is a championship. All this sentimental bullsh*t don't mean nothing....
If you honestly believe that, then you have sh!t for brains.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it. When a player who is considered the best in the league hits free agency and decides to join forces with the second best player in the league and another top 15 player, it changes the value of winning a title.

I mean, where would it end? You are saying "a championship is a championship"...

Does that mean that Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Dwayne Wade and Chris Paul could all be on the same team and beating Dirk and the Mavs in the Finals would mean the same as James doing it in Cleveland would have or Howard doing it in Orlando?

Of course not. That is just silly. James gave up quite a bit of leeway by choosing the destination that he did at the time in his career that he did it. If they don't create a dynasty with multiple championships, it will be a failure.

There is no other way to spin it.

[lilgodfather1]

No.
Lol yeah because winning four titles in a row wouldn't make it only the second time in NBA history, and the first time in the expansion era. LeBron would be a legend. Winning a title in Cleveland would have been great, but winning four is always better than one.

[Lebron23]

LeBron will have more NBA Championship than his former team at the end of his NBA Career. LBJ is clearly the Miami Heat's no.1 scoring option this season. He also rediscovered his clutch genes in his last few games. This is the same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010.


Lol yeah because winning four titles in a row wouldn't make it only the second time in NBA history, and the first time in the expansion era. LeBron would be a legend. Winning a title in Cleveland would have been great, but winning four is always better than one.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

This

[RedBlackAttack]

LeBron will have more NBA Championship than his former team at the end of his NBA Career.
Pffft. :roll:

Really going out on a tremendous limb, there.

[kileer7]

I honestly think that if Lebron wins his 3rd MVP this season but doesn't win a title this season that LeBron will never receive an MVP again until after he wins a championship.

The MVP should go to the best player in the world irrespective of whether or not they win a championship.


At least that is the way I think it should be but then again LeBron shouldn't even get his 3rd MVP this season but he probably will, oh well. Media rides him hard so you never know.

The media doesn't "rides him hard" they tear him down.

[Meticode]

If you honestly believe that you have a warped sense of reality. :oldlol:

A championship is a championship. All this sentimental bullsh*t don't mean nothing....
No.

[Meticode]

Lol yeah because winning four titles in a row wouldn't make it only the second time in NBA history, and the first time in the expansion era. LeBron would be a legend. Winning a title in Cleveland would have been great, but winning four is always better than one.
No.

[Lebron23]

Pffft. :roll:

Really going out on a tremendous limb, there.


One NBA championship is better than None.

[Bandito]

Your average is 2 Lebronytes per post.
Man that was a fail:lol

[RedBlackAttack]

One NBA championship is better than None.
And will all of your following this guy around and hopping on multiple bandwagons be worth it for one championship? Surely, you were thinking a little bigger than that when you changed that avatar from Cleveland to Miami.

[Heavincent]

LeBron will have more NBA Championship than his former team at the end of his NBA Career. LBJ is clearly the Miami Heat's no.1 scoring option this season. He also rediscovered his clutch genes in his last few games. This is the same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010.



:applause: :applause: :applause:

This

Weren't you a Cavs "fan" just a few years ago? Funny how so many of you Lebron homers jumped ship and are now pretending to be Heat "fans".

[RedBlackAttack]

I am a moron.
I agree!

[Heavincent]

I agree!

:oldlol: :applause:

[LakersReign]

If you honestly believe that, then you have sh!t for brains.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it. When a player who is considered the best in the league hits free agency and decides to join forces with the second best player in the league and another top 15 player, it changes the value of winning a title.

I mean, where would it end? You are saying "a championship is a championship"...

Does that mean that Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Dwayne Wade and Chris Paul could all be on the same team and beating Dirk and the Mavs in the Finals would mean the same as James doing it in Cleveland would have or Howard doing it in Orlando?


Of course not. That is just silly. James gave up quite a bit of leeway by choosing the destination that he did at the time in his career that he did it. If they don't create a dynasty with multiple championships, it will be a failure.

There is no other way to spin it.

Their "logic" if you can call it that, is the main reason why nobody takes them seriously. Just gotta love how, when it comes to Lebron, there's ALWAYS so pathetic excuse or double standard. Now a championship is supposedly a championship when it comes to Lebron. Even though they've been trying to backdoor Lebron into the Jordan conversation for years now. To try and say he's supposedly on par with, or better than Jordan. Keeping in mind, Jordan never took a sidekick role in any of those championships he won. But now since Lebron can't do it the regular way like everyone else did, since he clearly lacks the work ethic of a Jordan, a championship is a championship. Yet another double standard....."moving the goalpost" b***h move to accommodate the supposed "chosen one" self proclaimed king and supposed best player in the league. Pure desperation at it's best.:facepalm

[Meticode]

I am a moron.
Hey, your passive agreeing with people to make yourself seem less stupid is what I do. Don't copy me!

[DMAVS41]

If you honestly believe that, then you have sh!t for brains.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it. When a player who is considered the best in the league hits free agency and decides to join forces with the second best player in the league and another top 15 player, it changes the value of winning a title.

I mean, where would it end? You are saying "a championship is a championship"...

Does that mean that Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Dwayne Wade and Chris Paul could all be on the same team and beating Dirk and the Mavs in the Finals would mean the same as James doing it in Cleveland would have or Howard doing it in Orlando?

Of course not. That is just silly. James gave up quite a bit of leeway by choosing the destination that he did at the time in his career that he did it. If they don't create a dynasty with multiple championships, it will be a failure.

There is no other way to spin it.

I agree with this, but when did Wade become the unquestioned 2nd best player in the league?

It seems that everyone refers to him as that when talking negatively about Lebron, but start a thread entitled Wade is the 2nd best player in the league and it would start a huge debate.

Just seems odd to refer to a player that is absolutely not the unquestioned 2nd best player...as the clear 2nd best player.

Oh, and Bosh isn't top 15 either imo....

But I agree with your overall post. All titles are not equal at all.

[chips93]

I agree!

hey RBA, your a mod right?

could you change the title of my thread?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260425

its obviously supposed to be importance, not impotence

[stephanieg]

They should give LeBron everything: MVP, DPOY, MIP, COY, Sixth man, whatever. It'll make the eventual fall all the more satisfying.

[RedBlackAttack]

I agree with this, but when did Wade become the unquestioned 2nd best player in the league?

It seems that everyone refers to him as that when talking negatively about Lebron, but start a thread entitled Wade is the 2nd best player in the league and it would start a huge debate.

Just seems odd to refer to a player that is absolutely not the unquestioned 2nd best player...as the clear 2nd best player.

Oh, and Bosh isn't top 15 either imo....

But I agree with your overall post. All titles are not equal at all.
Perceptions have changed in the last couple of years because having those two guys on the same team clouds things a bit, but that was my opinion of the hierarchy at the time that those two guys joined forces. I was giving my opinion, since there really is no clear "player rankings" to point to as concrete.

And, to be fair, most people had Wade way up there at that time. It was really before Durant had stepped forward as the 'other' best player in the league. I still think Wade, on a team without James, would be one of the very best players in the league... Right up there with anyone as long as he was able to maintain his health.

[DMAVS41]

Perceptions have changed in the last couple of years because having those two guys on the same team clouds things a bit, but that was my opinion of the hierarchy at the time that those two guys joined forces.

And, to be fair, most people had Wade way up there at that time. It was really before Durant had stepped forward. I still think Wade, on a team without James, would be one of the very best players in the league... Right up there with anyone as long as he was able to maintain his health.

Oh I agree...Wade is no doubt one of the very best players in the league.

He just was never known as the clear cut "2nd best player"....I just find it funny that whenever anyone posts negatively about Lebron that Wade is unanimously known as the 2nd best player in the league.

Just kind of funny.

[chips93]

thanks, RBA

[I<3NBA]

getting carried by Shaq to a title means nothing. He pulls yet another disappearing act like he did in game 7, and wins a title by default.
fixed.

[PJR]

If you honestly believe that, then you have sh!t for brains.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it. When a player who is considered the best in the league hits free agency and decides to join forces with the second best player in the league and another top 15 player, it changes the value of winning a title.

I mean, where would it end? You are saying "a championship is a championship"...

Does that mean that Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Dwayne Wade and Chris Paul could all be on the same team and beating Dirk and the Mavs in the Finals would mean the same as James doing it in Cleveland would have or Howard doing it in Orlando?

Of course not. That is just silly. James gave up quite a bit of leeway by choosing the destination that he did at the time in his career that he did it. If they don't create a dynasty with multiple championships, it will be a failure.

There is no other way to spin it.

Yawn. Didn't read.

A championship is a championship.

LeBron has one all NBA caliber perimter player, and really good powerforward, And a bunch of solid/decent role players. If/when he wins a title, he derserves and warrants as much credit and respect as any all time great to win a title. Period. End of story.

It's widly apparent that LeBron is held to a different standard though, because he is that tremendous of an all around player, so it's cool.

[DMV2]

He would take Malone's crown as the biggest choker in the history of the NBA.

[ImmortalNemesis]

This thread is basically butt hurt Cleveland posters + LeBron haters vs LeBron bandwagoners + Miami Heat fans. Classic ISH. :applause: Atta boy.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Regular season MVP has nothing to do with championship. Teams win championships, players win MVP's.
You're team has to win like 54+ games to win MVP since the media started voting the MVP award.
And, tell me something. What makes up a team? the answer is players.

[RedBlackAttack]

This thread is basically butt hurt Cleveland posters + LeBron haters vs LeBron bandwagoners + Miami Heat fans. Classic ISH. :applause: Atta boy.
You know what always gets me? LeBron fans can say whatever they want about Cleveland. As soon as any Cleveland fans respond, they are "butt hurt."

How many Miami threads have I posted in this year? I am completely wrapped up with what is happening with the Cavs and haven't really given the Heat much of a second thought. But, when people are talking out of their @sses, I will still occasionally respond.

How that makes me "butt hurt," I don't know.

[Indian guy]

As soon as any Cleveland fans respond, they are "butt hurt."

Well, it's true.

Nobody outside of Cleveland gives a sh!t where he wins. As long as he wins and does so as THE MAN, he'll get all the respect in the world.

The guy is fans' consensus choice for MVP this season. "Respect" is one thing he isn't lacking.

[PJR]

Well, it's true.

Nobody outside of Cleveland gives a sh!t where he wins. As long as he wins and does so as THE MAN, he'll get all the respect in the world.

The guy is fans' consensus choice for MVP this season. "Respect" is one thing he isn't lacking.

This.

Any Cleveland fan who drops the "A title won't mean as much anywhere else" is fooling themselves, and lacks perspective big time. But that's okay, you have that right to be a homer. :oldlol:

[ImmortalNemesis]

I mean its been what....almost two years already?

Get. Over. It.

[RedBlackAttack]

Well, it's true.

Nobody outside of Cleveland gives a sh!t where he wins. As long as he wins and does so as THE MAN, he'll get all the respect in the world.

The guy is fans' consensus choice for MVP this season. "Respect" is one thing he isn't lacking.
I think he is probably the MVP. I never, not once, have doubted his game (minus a few disappearing acts in the playoffs).

But, "a championship is a championship" is pretty ridiculous. You honestly believe that winning a title with the team he has around him now would mean as much as it would have with the supporting cast he had in Cleveland?

Of course not. That is just crazy talk. The road you take to the title can be just as important as getting there in the end.

[RedBlackAttack]

I mean its been what....almost two years already?

Get. Over. It.
Couldn't be more over it. LeBron in Cleveland feels like a lot longer ago than two years. We have some really nice young pieces and tons of picks in the next two drafts. I'm actually really excited about what is happening with the Cavs right now.

LeBron is long gone. That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on a topic involving him from time to time. He is the best player in the league. I'm not sure at what point I forfeited opinions on his game or his legacy.

[pauk]

That's not the same thing you dumb homer. When Jordan was in his 9th season (like Lebron is now), he was putting the finishing touches on his first 3 peat.

I'm so sick of hearing Lebron stans spew that hot garbage.

Thats not the same thing YOU "dumb homer".

***Jordan recieved a MUCH better supporting cast compared to the Cleveland Lebron, another reason Jordan never had to leave and create such a team himself which Lebron had to, Jordan got everything handed to him... and later recieved a MUCH better supporting even compared to Lebrons Miami team...

***Jordan was not even close to as good/talented as Lebron was in highschool, he would not have come in to the NBA at 18 as a 1st pick if there was such a limit back then.... you cant fault Lebron on coming in earlier......

***Jordan didnt put finishing touches on his first 3peat.... his TEAM was putting finishing touches on THEIR first 3peat... remember, this is a team accomplishment....?

***Its the age which bottlenecks a human being, not how many years you have worked out.... actually thats only healthy for you unless you get injured...

***Hypothetically a player could have came in to the NBA at the age of 10 and this could be his 17th season...........
Does it mean he should retire because it is his 17th season? NO, that player is 27 years old and in his prime.......
Does it mean he should be discredited when compared to others greats just because he was so damn good at the age of 10 to come in to the NBA? NO...

***Saying that a player is only 27 and that Jordan didnt get a championship until he was 27-28 means only that player has TIME to achieve the same if he has the talent/skill and most importantly if he has the supporting cast to do that..... no matter how many damn seasons he has under his belt... its the AGE that matters... because it is the AGE which is the biggest troublemaker...

Im so sick of hearing Kobetard/Lebron haters spew THAT hot garbage.

[RedBlackAttack]

***Jordan didnt put finishing touches on his first 3peat.... his TEAM was putting finishing touches on THEIR first 3peat... remember, this is a team accomplishment....?
I'm sure you feel that way about the Cavs winning 60+ games in back-to-back seasons. It was a "team accomplishment," right?

The irony oozing out of you being the one to make that post is so rich, it is stunning.

Team accomplishments are only team accomplishments when you want them to be... When they fit your agenda and argument.

[Heavincent]

Thats not the same thing YOU "dumb homer".

***Jordan recieved a MUCH better supporting cast compared to the Cleveland Lebron, another reason Jordan never had to leave and create such a team himself which Lebron had to, Jordan got everything handed to him... and later recieved a MUCH better supporting even compared to Lebrons Miami team...

***Jordan was not even close to as good/talented as Lebron was in highschool, he would not have come in to the NBA at 18 as a 1st pick if there was such a limit back then.... you cant fault Lebron on coming in earlier......

***Jordan didnt put finishing touches on his first 3peat.... his TEAM was putting finishing touches on THEIR first 3peat... remember, this is a team accomplishment....?

***Its the age which bottlenecks a human being, not how many years you have worked out.... actually thats only healthy for you unless you get injured...

***Hypothetically a player could have came in to the NBA at the age of 10 and this could be his 17th season...........
Does it mean he should retire because it is his 17th season? NO, that player is 27 years old and in his prime.......
Does it mean he should be discredited just when compared to others greats because he was so damn good at the age of 10 to come in to the NBA? NO...

***Saying that a player is only 27 and that Jordan didnt get a championship until he was 27-28 means only that player has TIME to achieve the same if he has the talent/skill and most importantly if he has the supporting cast to do that..... no matter how many damn seasons he has under his belt... its the AGE that matters... because it is the AGE which is the biggest troublemaker...

Im so sick of hearing Kobetard/Lebron haters spew THAT hot garbage.

Enough with that "team accomplishment" excuse. You know what makes up a team? The players. And you know who the best player on the Bulls was? Jordan. Thus it is both an individual accomplishment and a team accomplishment. And by the way..

-Jordan didn't leave Chicago to join a stacked team only to have an epic choke job in the Finals

-Jordan was simply a superior player to Lebron. Better scorer, better playmaker, better defender, more clutch, better leader, etc.

Stop trying to compare Lebron to Jordan. Just stop. Jordan is simply on a different level.

[Indian guy]

You honestly believe that winning a title with the team he has around him now would mean as much as it would have with the supporting cast he had in Cleveland?

He was never winning in Cleveland, so it's a bogus hypothetical to me.

The way I see it, and I think it applies to the majority too, as long as LeBron wins a championship while playing at a high level and as his team's best player, I don't think it matters in the least that he did it with Miami.


The road you take to the title can be just as important as getting there in the end.

To me, the content of this "road" to the championship is 1) level of play 2) whether you were THE MAN. It's not really about whether you were on a team "too" talented, which Miami isn't. They have 2 superstars, 1 All Star and a below-average roster from 4-12. They are simply not a team with an unfair advantage. All the elite teams in the NBA are loaded today.

[RedBlackAttack]

He was never winning in Cleveland, so it's a bogus hypothetical to me.

The way I see it, and I think it applies to the majority too, as long as LeBron wins a championship while playing at a high level and as his team's best player, I don't think it matters in the least that he did it with Miami.

I agree about never winning in Cleveland. It is clear to me now that the best opportunities for that to happen had passed and we probably weren't going to get that close again with that team... And, furthermore, we were never really all that close in the first place, despite the regular season triumphs.

That is one of the reasons I am so excited about the way that this current Cavs management is building our roster. It is being done through the draft and with (hopefully) multiple All-Stars.

Trying to piece together a championship level team through free agency and the trade deadline when you are in Cleveland is damn near impossible. We were about as close as you can get to making it happen in the James years and we still weren't all that close at all.

A franchise like this needs to build through the draft. A lot of factors led to us not being able to do that with James. We are doing it now, though, which is pretty exciting and gives me some hope for the future.


To me, the content of this "road" to the championship is 1) level of play 2) whether you were THE MAN. It's not really about whether you were on a team "too" talented, which Miami isn't. They have 2 superstars, 1 All Star and a below-average roster from 4-12. They are simply not a team with an unfair advantage. All the elite teams in the NBA are loaded today.

"The road" doesn't just mean that a team might be "too talented." The fact that Jordan stuck things out in Chicago and eventually overcame a team that seemed like they would never bend (Detroit) helps his legacy. Those are the kinds of things that people remember... Jordan making the Pistons put their head down and leave the floor before the game had even ended. He battled with them for years and eventually triumphed.

LeBron tried to capture some of that "climb the mountain" mentality last year when they beat the Celtics, but it just didn't feel the same. Yes, the Cs stood in the way of LeBron's Cavs for years. No, seeing a team with James, Wade and Bosh on it beat a handicapped Celtics team did not have the same feeling as Jordan eventually outlastning the Pistons, even though it should have if "all championships are the same."

Further, if the postseason this year goes the way it did last year and James puts up that kind of performance in the Finals, your second point will be up for serious debate. James was the man in the ECFs. Wade was clearly the man in the Finals.

I can't put a scenario like that up there with how things would have been had he won somewhere wherein he wouldn't have had another fellow superstar like Wade to rely upon.

So, a lot of it is going to depend upon how things pan out. But, banking on people forgetting about the way this team was formed and the expectations people had when it was initially announced....

I think that is fool's gold. One championship will not be enough for this group, while it would have been in Cleveland, even though, as I explained above, it probably would never have happened. But, hell... the fact that I don't think it would have ever happened is testament to just how much it would have meant had he made it happen anyway.

He has put himself in a totally different situation now. Where, he is expected to win and if he doesn't, it will be a massive failure of unspeakable proportions.

[Indian guy]

"The road" doesn't just mean that a team might be "too talented." The fact that Jordan stuck things out in Chicago and eventually overcame a team that seemed like they would never bend (Detroit) helps his legacy.

MJ's the only one who had that kind of narrative though. His career was basically a fairytale. Nobody's touching that. The rest of the all-time greats, they landed on talented teams and started winning right away. It's really all about winning as THE MAN at the end of the day. That's all that matters.


I think that is fool's gold.

That's the Cleveland fan in you talking, man. I'm telling you, if LeBron LEADS his team to the championship, nobody will have an issue giving him the type of credit all other superstars have gotten in the past.

[LakersReign]

This thread is basically butt hurt Cleveland posters + LeBron haters vs LeBron bandwagoners + Miami Heat fans. Classic ISH. :applause: Atta boy.

I don't hate Lebron. I simply think he's MASSIVELY overrated, that's all. So there goes that theory:sleeping

[gilalizard]

Miami should win 4 in a row. That' show stacked they are. That's how easy they have it.

How stacked they are isn't the real question though.

[coin24]

Comparing Lebron to Jordan?? Only in Pauks mind:lol :lol


I think it would have definitely meant a lot more winning as a cav. After years of trying. At least more respected from his peers. Unlike now he is the joke of the league...

Have to agree, there arent many cavs fans dissing the heat. We all know Lebron stans are the dumbest fools on earth. Barely any basketball knowledge and full of endless excuses as to why there underachieving hero always chokes:lol

[gilalizard]

I mean its been what....almost two years already?

Get. Over. It.

Douchebaggery never dies. It's like a zombie that must be killed over and over again.

[LakersReign]

Comparing Lebron to Jordan?? Only in Pauks mind:lol :lol


I think it would have definitely meant a lot more winning as a cav. After years of trying. At least more respected from his peers. Unlike now he is the joke of the league...

Have to agree, there arent many cavs fans dissing the heat. We all know Lebron stans are the dumbest fools on earth. Barely any basketball knowledge and full of endless excuses as to why there underachieving hero always chokes:lol

You beat me to it. I was about to post the same thing:cheers:

[miggyme1]

the mvp race is so close this year i have a strange feeling that whoever team finishes with the best record that person will win the award.if the thunder finish with a better record then durant will win it.if heat finish with a better record than the thunder than lebron will take it.i know it would have been nice to see wade win a mvp but it looks like that will never happen.i thought he should have won it a few season ago when he was averaging 30 a game but i believe they gave it to lebron which is understandable just goes to show u gotta be one hell of a player to win that award.i think durant gone win at least 4 before his career is done.westbrook might even sneak one in

[All Net]

the mvp race is so close this year i have a strange feeling that whoever team finishes with the best record that person will win the award.if the thunder finish with a better record then durant will win it.if heat finish with a better record than the thunder than lebron will take it.i know it would have been nice to see wade win a mvp but it looks like that will never happen.i thought he should have won it a few season ago when he was averaging 30 a game but i believe they gave it to lebron which is understandable just goes to show u gotta be one hell of a player to win that award.i think durant gone win at least 4 before his career is done.westbrook might even sneak one in

Its looking like Thunder may finish with a better record but judging by the comments from the media most aren't giving it to anybody but Lebron.

[Kurosawa0]

Its looking like Thunder may finish with a better record but judging by the comments from the media most aren't giving it to anybody but Lebron.

Yeah, I've seen much less resistance to the idea of giving LeBron the award than I thought there would be. The problem is that LeBron's had the better season individually than Durant and the Thunder haven't really outpaced Miami.

[Yung D-Will]

LeBron will have more NBA Championship than his former team at the end of his NBA Career. LBJ is clearly the Miami Heat's no.1 scoring option this season. He also rediscovered his clutch genes in his last few games. This is the same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010.




I do not think he will leave Cleveland because he was born and raise in Akron, and giving this team a championship is one of his main goal after he was selected as the first overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft.


But if ever LBJ change his mind by signing with a Big Market team in the 2010 Season.

I am still supporting the Cleveland Cavaliers because this is my favorite team since 2002, when they drafted Dajuan Wagner as the 6th overall pick in the NBA Draft.


I thought Wagner is the chosen one, but it turns out that LBJ will be my favorite player in the NBA, and he already led the Cavaliers to the NBA Finals last year.

Don't you mean your former team?

[DMAVS41]

Its looking like Thunder may finish with a better record but judging by the comments from the media most aren't giving it to anybody but Lebron.

Lebron has MVP locked up unless Durant goes nuts today against the Lakers. And by nuts I mean like a 50 point game and a ton of clutch moments.

Then it would become a toss up again. But right now Lebron is going to win it unless some crazy stuff happens these last 2 or 3 games.

[cteach111]

Comparing Lebron to Jordan?? Only in Pauks mind:lol :lol


I think it would have definitely meant a lot more winning as a cav. After years of trying. At least more respected from his peers. Unlike now he is the joke of the league...

Have to agree, there arent many cavs fans dissing the heat. We all know Lebron stans are the dumbest fools on earth. Barely any basketball knowledge and full of endless excuses as to why there underachieving hero always chokes:lol

yah, he's such a joke that he's about to win the friggin MVP

[ILLsmak]

Any objective fan should already regard LeBron as one of the greatest players ever. Getting a third MVP, even without a ring, only solidifies that.

I dunno, man. All of that shit he did when he went to Miami kind of overrules his talent. He needs to win a ring.

He's definitely one of the most gifted athletes, but is he one of the greatest players? I don't know. I think mental toughness is huge.

Who would you rather have on your team? Bron or Bird? I'd say Bird and Bird had shit athleticism, but he was an amazing player.

LeBron can be thought of as a great player by his fans and "objective fans" but the haters will always say, "He never won a ring" or "when he won a ring, he wasn't even FMVP." That's a valid argument. It might not be the end all-be-all but that shit can stand alone.

Kind of like the 5 ring thing that Kobe fans say. It's short sighted, but it's powerful enough to make someone shut the **** up.

-Smak

[LakersReign]

yah, he's such a joke that he's about to win the friggin MVP

Winning a third MVP does nothing to erase anything he's done previously. As a 2-time MVP, there's no excuse for getting called out by a role player, and then subsequently embarrassed by said role player in the Finals. Furthermore, it makes him look even worse if/when he does get the MVP and either fails to make it to the Finals, or disappears in the Finals again. Piling up MVP's means nothing without titles and also does nothing to bring him any closer to the Jordan conversation either.:no:

[DMAVS41]

I dunno, man. All of that shit he did when he went to Miami kind of overrules his talent. He needs to win a ring.

He's definitely one of the most gifted athletes, but is he one of the greatest players? I don't know. I think mental toughness is huge.

Who would you rather have on your team? Bron or Bird? I'd say Bird and Bird had shit athleticism, but he was an amazing player.

LeBron can be thought of as a great player by his fans and "objective fans" but the haters will always say, "He never won a ring" or "when he won a ring, he wasn't even FMVP." That's a valid argument. It might not be the end all-be-all but that shit can stand alone.

Kind of like the 5 ring thing that Kobe fans say. It's short sighted, but it's powerful enough to make someone shut the **** up.

-Smak


Well, what is your definition of a great player?

Lebron is really without a doubt already one of the twenty greatest players of all time. Like...do you really think Malone and Barkley were better players?

Lebron, in my opinion, is definitely a better player than a guy like Dr. J as well. Now, that is just my opinion and I don't want to debate that.

But the point is...where would you rank Lebron all time right now? I just don't see how anyone could possibly rank him worse than 20th all time. Is that really not an all time great player?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't see how Lebron has "locked up" the MVP award? If KD has a big game this afternoon, dude is the clear-cut winner in most peoples eyes - and he should be.

[DMAVS41]

I don't see how Lebron has "locked up" the MVP award? If KD has a big game this afternoon, dude is the clear-cut winner in most peoples eyes - and he should be.


I don't think the voters agree with that statement.

[gengiskhan]

I don't see how Lebron has "locked up" the MVP award? If KD has a big game this afternoon, dude is the clear-cut winner in most peoples eyes - and he should be.

If Westbrook has equally big game, Durant MVP votes will be split.

Westbrook's rise in 2nd half of shortened season has already affected MVP voting.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

[/B]

I don't think the voters agree with that statement.

Probably not. I just don't get how he's gonna win a third straight MVP. KD is having his best season yet and the Thunder have a better record.

I know it's a regular season award and all, but I wouldn't have a problem with him winning another MVP had he shown up in the Finals last year. Just doesnt sit right with me.

[Heavincent]

I don't see how Lebron has "locked up" the MVP award? If KD has a big game this afternoon, dude is the clear-cut winner in most peoples eyes - and he should be.

The media is riding Lebron's dick, so he'll probably get it. I definitely think Durant should get it though.

[imdaman99]

media hype says lebron. i would rather give it to durantula as well, but media usually wins out

[DMAVS41]

Probably not. I just don't see how he's gonna win a third straight MVP. KD is having his best season yet and the Thunder have a better record.

I know it's a regular season award, but I wouldn't have a problem with him winning another MVP had he showed up in the Finals last year. Just doesnt sit right with me.

I think it is still up for grabs, but I think its going to take a monster game from Durant today.

A lot of voters are falling victim to the "more well rounded player" meaning the better player. I've heard a lot of them talk about defense and passing a ton as the reason why Lebron deserves it.

I don't have a problem with that, but I honestly think Durant is right there with Lebron as a player this year. A month ago I didn't think that, but Durant has been so good.

I just see Lebron winning it unless something spectacular from Durant happens today. Which is fine. Lebron is more than deserving. He's having an amazing all around year. He'll make first team all defense and deserve it. He's led the Heat to a great record without Wade. He's shooting 53% or whatever from the field.

Its a season that if it was done by somebody else...they'd probably be the clear cut MVP.

So you can't really have an issue with him winning it.

What does it mean? Not much to me. Lebron is always going to produce great stats and lead pretty much any team to 50 plus wins. That is what he does.

And sadly, that just means less to me after watching him fall apart last year. Takes the shine off so to speak.

I just don't get people hating on him for his MVP's though. He's deserved them all. Its a regular season award. Doesn't make him a better player because he won MVP. Its similar to the Kobe 5 rings situation. You can't use 5 rings as your evidence to why Kobe is great...just like you can't use 3 mvp's....likely 5 by the time he's done...as the reason Lebron is great.

For example...lets say that Lebron ends with 5 mvp's....are people going to use that as the reason he's better than Shaq and Duncan...who only have 3 between them? See..that is more problem with both of those things. Using the "rings" or "mvps" as the evidence.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I think it is still up for grabs, but I think its going to take a monster game from Durant today.

A lot of voters are falling victim to the "more well rounded player" meaning the better player. I've heard a lot of them talk about defense and passing a ton as the reason why Lebron deserves it.

I don't have a problem with that, but I honestly think Durant is right there with Lebron as a player this year. A month ago I didn't think that, but Durant has been so good.

I just see Lebron winning it unless something spectacular from Durant happens today. Which is fine. Lebron is more than deserving. He's having an amazing all around year. He'll make first team all defense and deserve it. He's led the Heat to a great record without Wade. He's shooting 53% or whatever from the field.

Its a season that if it was done by somebody else...they'd probably be the clear cut MVP.

So you can't really have an issue with him winning it.

What does it mean? Not much to me. Lebron is always going to produce great stats and lead pretty much any team to 50 plus wins. That is what he does.

And sadly, that just means less to me after watching him fall apart last year. Takes the shine off so to speak.

I just don't get people hating on him for his MVP's though. He's deserved them all. Its a regular season award. Doesn't make him a better player because he won MVP. Its similar to the Kobe 5 rings situation. You can't use 5 rings as your evidence to why Kobe is great...just like you can't use 3 mvp's....likely 5 by the time he's done...as the reason Lebron is great.

For example...lets say that Lebron ends with 5 mvp's....are people going to use that as the reason he's better than Shaq and Duncan...who only have 3 between them? See..that is more problem with both of those things. Using the "rings" or "mvps" as the evidence.

You're right. I guess being objective keeps you open to everything. Good post - like I said, it's a regular season award; it has no bearing on the playoffs.. where it REALLY counts.

[Jimmy2k8]

Quite honestly, I'd love to see Lebron win his 3rd MVP and win his first ring this year. Maybe that will send some of the posters here packing and never posting again.

[LakersReign]

Quite honestly, I'd love to see Lebron win his 3rd MVP and win his first ring this year. Maybe that will send some of the posters here packing and never posting again.

Works both ways dude. The same could be said about all those fake Heat fans aka Lebronytes, who've been talking nonstop trash since July 10, 2010. A lot of them are still on here, with different accounts. And if/when the Heat lose this year as well, they'll change accounts again.:facepalm