View Full Version : Jordan Hill
Robster89
04-23-2012, 11:27 AM
How about that game last night?
14 points, 15 boards, 6 offensive. 6 for 11 FG. 3 blocks.
A plus 27.
Nice to see him finally get some PT.
I like him as our 3rd big MUCH more than Murphy or McBob.
Man, having a guy who can produce like that behind Pau and Andrew would be awesome. His ability to score seemed to have an impact on the entire 2nd unit.
kkinchen
04-23-2012, 07:02 PM
NOt much to say. He looked like the second coming of Dennis Rodman out there. Very nice pickup. Mitch is the GM of the year.
lakerfreak
04-23-2012, 10:05 PM
I hope we keep the guy. One thing is a given and its that Pau is going to be shopped again to save money. If that be the case, we need to keep Jordan Hill. A nice inexpensive insurance policy.
Lakers_Kobe_Fan
04-23-2012, 10:38 PM
I hope we keep the guy. One thing is a given and its that Pau is going to be shopped again to save money. If that be the case, we need to keep Jordan Hill. A nice inexpensive insurance policy.
plus he has the potential. I would prefer him to get mins over fake hustle mcrib and useless murphy
McRib would hustle but never come up with any rebounfs :roll:
Looks like Jordan Hill has a warrant for his arrest for assault of a family member. It's apparently a 3rd degree felony. It sounds like his season will be done......
fiddy
04-30-2012, 03:11 PM
Looks like Jordan Hill has a warrant for his arrest for assault of a family member. It's apparently a 3rd degree felony. It sounds like his season will be done......
da fuq?
DKLaker
04-30-2012, 03:24 PM
Looks like Jordan Hill has a warrant for his arrest for assault of a family member. It's apparently a 3rd degree felony. It sounds like his season will be done......
Nah, this is just a case of trying to get money from him, nothing more.
Supposedly the incident happened Feb 29th when he was with the Rockets.....however it wasn't reported until now, a sure sign of it being phony.
In any case nothing will happen until well after the season is over, you know how long it takes to get anything to trial....Crittendon still hasn't gone to trial
....and that's a murder case, he's walking around free on bail.
Nothing more than a distraction for Hill.
Nah, this is just a case of trying to get money from him, nothing more.
Supposedly the incident happened Feb 29th when he was with the Rockets.....however it wasn't reported until now, a sure sign of it being phony.
In any case nothing will happen until well after the season is over, you know how long it takes to get anything to trial....Crittendon still hasn't gone to trial
....and that's a murder case, he's walking around free on bail.
Nothing more than a distraction for Hill.
Hopefully that's all it is. I'm sure it's over money, especially if it's a family member and especially if they're just now trying to press charges..... Nonetheless the warrant is out there and this is a felony case so that's a big deal. I hope he can continue to do what he has off the bench though.
lakerfreak
04-30-2012, 05:54 PM
Nah, this is just a case of trying to get money from him, nothing more.
Supposedly the incident happened Feb 29th when he was with the Rockets.....however it wasn't reported until now, a sure sign of it being phony.
In any case nothing will happen until well after the season is over, you know how long it takes to get anything to trial....Crittendon still hasn't gone to trial
....and that's a murder case, he's walking around free on bail.
Nothing more than a distraction for Hill.
Interesting. Are things like this usually done to try and distract teams? What do you think?
Interesting. Are things like this usually done to try and distract teams? What do you think?
I would doubt it. I'm guessing whoever decided to press charges waited around for a bit, then it more than likely took longer to get the warrant. I believe ESPN said the warrant was issued today. That basically means he needs to turn himself in, cause the cops are going to know how to find him, lol. It's tough to say if he could do that, post bail, and make it out in time to play in a game. The other thing is he would then need more than likely need a judge to give him permission to leave the state for work too...
Crown&Coke
04-30-2012, 07:46 PM
I want to apologize to Jordan Hill
I called him useless or something like that which was probably more because of who he was traded for. :facepalm
I like his hustle, and he goes after rebounds. More importantly, the way he moves his feet on screen/roll defense is something I like watching
Keep up the good work
tamaraw08
04-30-2012, 10:24 PM
I want to apologize to Jordan Hill
I called him useless or something like that which was probably more because of who he was traded for. :facepalm
I like his hustle, and he goes after rebounds. More importantly, the way he moves his feet on screen/roll defense is something I like watching
Keep up the good work
Class act dude:rockon:
We ALL misjudge poeple and not all of us own up to it. I also didnt thnk highly of him so you are not alone.
Lakers_Kobe_Fan
04-30-2012, 11:40 PM
Interesting. Are things like this usually done to try and distract teams? What do you think?
not to distract teams but to get money out of the players involved....as you can see it happened on feb 29th and she didnt file it when he was sitting on lakers bench...
as soon as this dude gets some good press...she is there to get the $$$....throw some G's & he should be able to get rid of that ho
mr sax
05-01-2012, 03:37 PM
I want to apologize to Jordan Hill
I called him useless or something like that which was probably more because of who he was traded for. :facepalm
I like his hustle, and he goes after rebounds. More importantly, the way he moves his feet on screen/roll defense is something I like watching
Keep up the good work
Most here should apologize to most of the Laker players and Mitch since they advocated trading away most of the team and firing Mitch. I couldn't believe how many "fans" here wanted Gasol traded.
My wife and I moved here from NYC two years ago and were told by several of our friends how clueless LA fans were. I always wait and see for myself with accusations like that but our friends were correct. We've been to many sporting events since moving here and from what I see at the games (Lakers and Dodgers) I suspect the median IQ to be below 60.
Most here should apologize to most of the Laker players and Mitch since they advocated trading away most of the team and firing Mitch. I couldn't believe how many "fans" here wanted Gasol traded.
My wife and I moved here from NYC two years ago and were told by several of our friends how clueless LA fans were. I always wait and see for myself with accusations like that but our friends were correct. We've been to many sporting events since moving here and from what I see at the games (Lakers and Dodgers) I suspect the median IQ to be below 60.Many Lakers fans are nothing but products of the media that covers them, some of that due to age. The media says Mike Brown is a bad coach and they follow along blindly and mimic what they read. This forum is a prime example of the problem, there's some good posters like Tam as an example or Foley but most don't post very often, at least here. Mostly Knee Jerks who lack critical thinking skills or are just trolling for reaction
Crown&Coke
05-01-2012, 06:31 PM
Most here should apologize to most of the Laker players and Mitch since they advocated trading away most of the team and firing Mitch. I couldn't believe how many "fans" here wanted Gasol traded.
My wife and I moved here from NYC two years ago and were told by several of our friends how clueless LA fans were. I always wait and see for myself with accusations like that but our friends were correct. We've been to many sporting events since moving here and from what I see at the games (Lakers and Dodgers) I suspect the median IQ to be below 60.
honestly, I know of two very knowledgable Lakers fans, who in the heat of something, stop thinking rationally. And these guys can talk ball, but they go nuts over Pau, I don't fvkcin get it.
case and point, Pau. Other than Bosh and Dirk, he is the ideal fit to put next to a big like Drew. And he has more post moves than both guys. And his game will age gracefully because you don't forget post moves, and he got range for days. I am against any Pau trade unless you get a better than average 4, and a legit guard who can get to the paint to score. Only Pau deal I was open to was for David Lee and Monta Ellis, which GSW would say buzz off
lakerfreak
05-01-2012, 06:43 PM
Most here should apologize to most of the Laker players and Mitch since they advocated trading away most of the team and firing Mitch. I couldn't believe how many "fans" here wanted Gasol traded.
My wife and I moved here from NYC two years ago and were told by several of our friends how clueless LA fans were. I always wait and see for myself with accusations like that but our friends were correct. We've been to many sporting events since moving here and from what I see at the games (Lakers and Dodgers) I suspect the median IQ to be below 60.
Every teams' fan base will have fans that don't really know much about the sport, other than the team is "winning too much" or "losing too much". LA is a huge city, meaning it has a huge population. I do agree that some of our fan base can be delusional. They either hate too much, or they defend too much.
One thing is certain though and it is that LA teams are expected to be perfect. Whether the fans are knowledgeable or not, everyone expects the team to be in contention for a championship. Whenever the teams in LA are rebuilding, fans grow impatient. They always expect to have things the way it always was. Case in point, when Phil Jackson left, everyone wanted the triangle to stay. No body wanted Mike Brown, or any other coach unless it was either going to be Brian Shaw, or Rick Adelman because his offensive system is very similar.
I got into a debate with another laker fan 2 years ago regarding Andrew Bynum. I was arguing the boy would be a complete stud when he was settled into his role and comfortable. His response to me was "He sucks because after so many years of being taught by Kareem Abdul Jabbar, he still hasn't attempted the skyhook". I was in disbelief that someone could utter such a shallow comment. Who else besides Cap shot the skyhook anyways? It just goes to show, in LA, people don't like change. They're all about someone's resume rather than "what have you done for me lately".
Is it dumb? Thats a matter of perspective. I think it is not reasonable, but there are proven ways to win, thats for sure. Does that mean the team, and the coach, and the GM cannot do it with new personnel? No. This team is still very much talented, and can figure out a new way to succeed. After all, there are 30 teams every season, many make the playoffs, but only one team ends up winning. The teams that win are the ones who have integrity, come day in and day out sticking to their role, and placing aside their ego, for the greater good. Thats how people win championships, not the amount of championship rings someone had in the past.
Crown&Coke
05-01-2012, 06:49 PM
I got into a debate with another laker fan 2 years ago regarding Andrew Bynum. I was arguing the boy would be a complete stud when he was settled into his role and comfortable. His response to me was "He sucks because after so many years of being taught by Kareem Abdul Jabbar, he still hasn't attempted the skyhook".
:roll:
DKLaker
05-02-2012, 12:41 PM
I got into a debate with another laker fan 2 years ago regarding Andrew Bynum. I was arguing the boy would be a complete stud when he was settled into his role and comfortable. His response to me was "He sucks because after so many years of being taught by Kareem Abdul Jabbar, he still hasn't attempted the skyhook". I was in disbelief that someone could utter such a shallow comment. Who else besides Cap shot the skyhook anyways?
Tons of guys shot hook shots, some guys still do, look no further than Pau who is the best 2 handed hook shooter I've ever seen.
http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/gilmore5_060527.jpghttp://nba-history.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/photos/magic-hook-shot_400.jpghttp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3636/3335094760_60e6b6b426.jpg
IMO, the hook shot is the greatest shot in basketball history. Kids nowadays are too image conscious to shoot it because it doesn't look cool and they don't see guys really shoot it much on ESPN. I ask players of all levels, if they could shoot 98% from the free throw line by shooting "Granny Style" like Rick Barry, would they do it, "Hell No!!!" is the reaction I get. It is clearly as much about looking good as it is to win. Image, Image, Image = ESPN Generation.
As for having Kareem coach Bynum, it was an idiotic mistake that was guaranteed to fail. Kareem is not a sociable person, he doesn't know how to relate to people or communicate, sure, he can say do this or do that....but in coaching you have to be able to relate and communicate. IMO this was a setback to his career....even with the injuries. Had they instead had Bynum work with Hakeem, he would be a much better player, thank god for Darvin Ham and the work he has done with Bynum this year, the Lakers have to keep him working with Andrew long term.
As for wanting Adelman as head coach, it has absolutely nothing at all with any so called similarity with Phil Jackson. Adelman is a damn good coach plain and simple, he knows exactly what he is doing and how to run a team effectively....that is beyond intelligent dispute. Mike Brown is :banghead:
BTW those of you who are too young to have seen Artis Gilmore play really missed a truly special player....one of my all time favorite opponents to watch. (B&W photo)
lakerfreak
05-02-2012, 03:56 PM
Tons of guys shot hook shots, some guys still do, look no further than Pau who is the best 2 handed hook shooter I've ever seen.
http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/gilmore5_060527.jpghttp://nba-history.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/photos/magic-hook-shot_400.jpghttp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3636/3335094760_60e6b6b426.jpg
IMO, the hook shot is the greatest shot in basketball history. Kids nowadays are too image conscious to shoot it because it doesn't look cool and they don't see guys really shoot it much on ESPN. I ask players of all levels, if they could shoot 98% from the free throw line by shooting "Granny Style" like Rick Barry, would they do it, "Hell No!!!" is the reaction I get. It is clearly as much about looking good as it is to win. Image, Image, Image = ESPN Generation.
As for having Kareem coach Bynum, it was an idiotic mistake that was guaranteed to fail. Kareem is not a sociable person, he doesn't know how to relate to people or communicate, sure, he can say do this or do that....but in coaching you have to be able to relate and communicate. IMO this was a setback to his career....even with the injuries. Had they instead had Bynum work with Hakeem, he would be a much better player, thank god for Darvin Ham and the work he has done with Bynum this year, the Lakers have to keep him working with Andrew long term.
As for wanting Adelman as head coach, it has absolutely nothing at all with any so called similarity with Phil Jackson. Adelman is a damn good coach plain and simple, he knows exactly what he is doing and how to run a team effectively....that is beyond intelligent dispute. Mike Brown is :banghead:
BTW those of you who are too young to have seen Artis Gilmore play really missed a truly special player....one of my all time favorite opponents to watch. (B&W photo)
Oh dont get me wrong DK. I agree that its a great shot. When its mastered, noone can really stop it. Im just attempting to point out how shallow some fans are. The stupid fans don't appreciate the smart basketball mind of a Kobe when he posts up and moves around so fluidly, but when Shannon Brown dunks, those same fans drool. Now you guys have known me, I liked Smush when he first started. But when a friend tells me "He can average 30 points a game!!!", I have to tell him to kiss my ass. Thats all im trying to do, is to make a point to say that the dumb fans don't really know what they're watching.
Adelman is a damn good coach. He is better than Mike Brown, can't argue against these claims at all. He's got an offensive scheme that has been proven, his defense is a bit questionable, but nonetheless, he can make a good team out of a bad team. As for Mike Brown, the playoffs look good. The offense is finally flowing. The passing is leading to so many open plays for Bynum underneath, Kobe is sticking to it, and Mike Brown finally has his offensive rebounder in Jordan Hill, damn that man is good. Hopefully he doesn't go to jail during the playoffs or something.
tamaraw08
05-02-2012, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=B
tamaraw08
05-02-2012, 10:36 PM
Tons of guys shot hook shots, some guys still do, look no further than Pau who is the best 2 handed hook shooter I've ever seen.
Wait.:eek:
Did you just complement Pau? Pau Gasol?
You didn't inadvertently left out the letter "L" and mean Paul for guys like
Paul Silas, Chris Paul,Paul WestPhall, Pressey or even McCartney, Pope Paul etc?:milton
DKLaker
05-02-2012, 11:11 PM
Oh dont get me wrong DK. I agree that its a great shot. When its mastered, noone can really stop it. Im just attempting to point out how shallow some fans are. The stupid fans don't appreciate the smart basketball mind of a Kobe when he posts up and moves around so fluidly, but when Shannon Brown dunks, those same fans drool. Now you guys have known me, I liked Smush when he first started. But when a friend tells me "He can average 30 points a game!!!", I have to tell him to kiss my ass. Thats all im trying to do, is to make a point to say that the dumb fans don't really know what they're watching.
Adelman is a damn good coach. He is better than Mike Brown, can't argue against these claims at all. He's got an offensive scheme that has been proven, his defense is a bit questionable, but nonetheless, he can make a good team out of a bad team. As for Mike Brown, the playoffs look good. The offense is finally flowing. The passing is leading to so many open plays for Bynum underneath, Kobe is sticking to it, and Mike Brown finally has his offensive rebounder in Jordan Hill, damn that man is good. Hopefully he doesn't go to jail during the playoffs or something.
Don't let playing the Nuggets fool you....IMO the playoffs don't start until you play a real team. Once we play OKC we can really discuss the good and bad of this team. I'm too old and experienced to get excited about the first round.
Jordan Hill is not going to jail in the playoffs :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Not unless he kills someone.....let's get real :oldlol:
DKLaker
05-02-2012, 11:19 PM
Wait.:eek:
Did you just complement Pau? Pau Gasol?
You didn't inadvertently left out the letter "L" and mean Paul for guys like
Paul Silas, Chris Paul,Paul WestPhall, Pressey or even McCartney, Pope Paul etc?:milton
I complement anyone when it is deserved, I have no agenda or bias.
Pau is rare in that Kareem could only shoot a right handed hook, Artis Gilmore only a left handed hook shot.......Pau has them both and that is impressive.
That being said, having talent doesn't make you a great player, it's what you do with it. If Pau had more intensity, focus.....aggressiveness he would be a beast.
You gotta want it and want it real bad.
mr sax
05-03-2012, 01:44 AM
I complement anyone when it is deserved, I have no agenda or bias.
Pau is rare in that Kareem could only shoot a right handed hook, Artis Gilmore only a left handed hook shot.......Pau has them both and that is impressive.
That being said, having talent doesn't make you a great player, it's what you do with it. If Pau had more intensity, focus.....aggressiveness he would be a beast.
You gotta want it and want it real bad.
Pau is a consistent player. Occasionally he will have an off night but you can count on him to show up and play. You can't ask for more than that. Even Kobe, yes Kobe, has off nights. I understand to some that it may be sacrilegist to criticize Kobe.
lakerfreak
05-03-2012, 04:52 AM
Don't let playing the Nuggets fool you....IMO the playoffs don't start until you play a real team. Once we play OKC we can really discuss the good and bad of this team. I'm too old and experienced to get excited about the first round.
Jordan Hill is not going to jail in the playoffs :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Not unless he kills someone.....let's get real :oldlol:
You'd be surprised. Many people (for some reason) bet that Denver would sweep LAL. I really cannot see why though.
You'd be surprised. Many people (for some reason) bet that Denver would sweep LAL. I really cannot see why though.
I didn't hear that one. Denver really doesn't match up with LA at all. This was the best possible first round the Lakers could've asked for.
DKLaker
05-03-2012, 12:53 PM
You'd be surprised. Many people (for some reason) bet that Denver would sweep LAL. I really cannot see why though.
Their best weapon against us was Nene, once he was traded they were done.
Their best weapon against us was Nene, once he was traded they were done.
Exactly my thought.... in previous years they had Nene and K-Mart so they could defend that front line of the Lakers better. This year they can't come close. It's almost unfortunate the Lakers have a chance to sweep the Nuggets. If this series went 5 (or even 6) then the Lakers would have Artest back for the 2nd round.
DKLaker
05-03-2012, 01:32 PM
Pau is a consistent player. Occasionally he will have an off night but you can count on him to show up and play. You can't ask for more than that. Even Kobe, yes Kobe, has off nights. I understand to some that it may be sacrilegist to criticize Kobe.
90% of the criticism of Kobe is irrational, 10% is completely accurate.
At this point Kobe is not going to change, it'd be idiotic to trade the best closer in the game......so flawed as he is, it's pointless to jabber on about him when there are much bigger problems with guys not pulling their weight.
Pau? The jury is still out on him, sorry.
Last years pathetic performance from Pau he averaged 13.1 ppg........guess what he's averaging through 2 games this playoffs.......13.0 ppg.
Pau does seem more emotionally invested in the team at the moment and his 6.5 assists per game is beautiful.
For the season the most glaring things have been his lowest shooting percentage since the 03-04 season, his lowest PPG of his career and by far his lowest free throw attempts in his career. His shooting % on non layups/dunks is by far the lowest of his career as well. Offensive rebounds....yes another career low this year.
I won't even go into the defensive issues.
Pau is currently in line to remain in the top 6-10 highest paid players in the NBA for next season, his ability to avoid being traded is riding on this years playoffs.
Unfortunately for Pau, he has a coach who has no clue of how to run an offense which will consistently allow the bigs to play off each other.....in the hands of a good coach Pau would be deadly playing alongside Bynum and Kobe. Pau should be cutting to the hole for easy passes from Bynum as he's being doubled and then crossing to the side for a mid range jumper if it's not there....with Kobe or Barnes as the 2nd cutter after Pau clears. There is no way this could be stopped.......but Mike Brown:banghead: All the tools at his disposal....but none of the brains required to use them. Maybe he should look at film of how Webber and Vlade played together....or..........??? & ???
lakerfreak
05-03-2012, 02:23 PM
90% of the criticism of Kobe is irrational, 10% is completely accurate.
At this point Kobe is not going to change, it'd be idiotic to trade the best closer in the game......so flawed as he is, it's pointless to jabber on about him when there are much bigger problems with guys not pulling their weight.
Pau? The jury is still out on him, sorry.
Last years pathetic performance from Pau he averaged 13.1 ppg........guess what he's averaging through 2 games this playoffs.......13.0 ppg.
Pau does seem more emotionally invested in the team at the moment and his 6.5 assists per game is beautiful.
For the season the most glaring things have been his lowest shooting percentage since the 03-04 season, his lowest PPG of his career and by far his lowest free throw attempts in his career. His shooting % on non layups/dunks is by far the lowest of his career as well. Offensive rebounds....yes another career low this year.
I won't even go into the defensive issues.
Pau is currently in line to remain in the top 6-10 highest paid players in the NBA for next season, his ability to avoid being traded is riding on this years playoffs.
Unfortunately for Pau, he has a coach who has no clue of how to run an offense which will consistently allow the bigs to play off each other.....in the hands of a good coach Pau would be deadly playing alongside Bynum and Kobe. Pau should be cutting to the hole for easy passes from Bynum as he's being doubled and then crossing to the side for a mid range jumper if it's not there....with Kobe or Barnes as the 2nd cutter after Pau clears. There is no way this could be stopped.......but Mike Brown:banghead: All the tools at his disposal....but none of the brains required to use them. Maybe he should look at film of how Webber and Vlade played together....or..........??? & ???
So is it irrational to criticize Kobe for his shot selection, which can be terrible a lot of the time? My issue is not only selection, but his volume shooting. He doesn't stop and he can single handedly ruin team chemistry when his shots aren't falling. Now when he's on, he's on, but its unrealistic to expect him to be on, especially at this stage in his career. Remember game 7 vs Boston 2 seasons ago? Nearly cost the team another championship. That right there should be criticized.
Pau Gasol's 13 PPG last season was different than this season. Bynum last season wasn't scoring like he is this time around. As a result, Pau can be the third option and get away with it, so long as he is still involved offensively (6.5 assists a game). Lastly, I think whether it is the nuggets or the spurs, its completely unfair to criticize the coach's offense when guys like Pau Gasol are averaging 6.5 assists a game. This offense has all of these players moving the ball, which results in a lot of those Bynum Alley Oops. Those plays aren't by accident. The players are having more understanding of their roles, and since they're now used to their roles, Kobe is shooting better, Bynum is very involved, and Pau is doing a great job blending in.
As a matter of fact, Phil's triangle didn't even involve Bynum as much as Brown's system does. Bynum is getting so many shot attempts, and all of those shot attempts are great ones, and this is WITH triple teams on Bynum. He's taking advantage of what this offense gives him.
If the offense is stagnant at times, which also happened with the triangle, then we have some hustle guys like Jordan Hill giving such a great boost with his second and third opportunities. The offense isn't flashy, but it works, it puts up points on the board, and more importantly, it gave the lakers the third seed, with a 2-0 lead in the playoffs.
tamaraw08
05-04-2012, 12:22 AM
So is it irrational to criticize Kobe for his shot selection, which can be terrible a lot of the time? My issue is not only selection, but his volume shooting. He doesn't stop and he can single handedly ruin team chemistry when his shots aren't falling. Now when he's on, he's on, but its unrealistic to expect him to be on, especially at this stage in his career. Remember game 7 vs Boston 2 seasons ago? Nearly cost the team another championship. That right there should be criticized.
Pau Gasol's 13 PPG last season was different than this season. Bynum last season wasn't scoring like he is this time around. As a result, Pau can be the third option and get away with it, so long as he is still involved offensively (6.5 assists a game). Lastly, I think whether it is the nuggets or the spurs, its completely unfair to criticize the coach's offense when guys like Pau Gasol are averaging 6.5 assists a game. This offense has all of these players moving the ball, which results in a lot of those Bynum Alley Oops. Those plays aren't by accident. The players are having more understanding of their roles, and since they're now used to their roles, Kobe is shooting better, Bynum is very involved, and Pau is doing a great job blending in.
As a matter of fact, Phil's triangle didn't even involve Bynum as much as Brown's system does. Bynum is getting so many shot attempts, and all of those shot attempts are great ones, and this is WITH triple teams on Bynum. He's taking advantage of what this offense gives him.
If the offense is stagnant at times, which also happened with the triangle, then we have some hustle guys like Jordan Hill giving such a great boost with his second and third opportunities. The offense isn't flashy, but it works, it puts up points on the board, and more importantly, it gave the lakers the third seed, with a 2-0 lead in the playoffs.
Very valid points Freak esp about Kobe, Pau and Bynum....:D
Heck, all of the above.
BallsOut
05-04-2012, 01:10 AM
I know it's only been like 4 games guys, but giving away the 1st rounder in the Derek Fisher trade is looking pretty good right now. :lol
DKLaker
05-04-2012, 02:19 AM
So is it irrational to criticize Kobe for his shot selection, which can be terrible a lot of the time? My issue is not only selection, but his volume shooting. He doesn't stop and he can single handedly ruin team chemistry when his shots aren't falling. Now when he's on, he's on, but its unrealistic to expect him to be on, especially at this stage in his career. Remember game 7 vs Boston 2 seasons ago? Nearly cost the team another championship. That right there should be criticized.
Pau Gasol's 13 PPG last season was different than this season. Bynum last season wasn't scoring like he is this time around. As a result, Pau can be the third option and get away with it, so long as he is still involved offensively (6.5 assists a game). Lastly, I think whether it is the nuggets or the spurs, its completely unfair to criticize the coach's offense when guys like Pau Gasol are averaging 6.5 assists a game. This offense has all of these players moving the ball, which results in a lot of those Bynum Alley Oops. Those plays aren't by accident. The players are having more understanding of their roles, and since they're now used to their roles, Kobe is shooting better, Bynum is very involved, and Pau is doing a great job blending in.
As a matter of fact, Phil's triangle didn't even involve Bynum as much as Brown's system does. Bynum is getting so many shot attempts, and all of those shot attempts are great ones, and this is WITH triple teams on Bynum. He's taking advantage of what this offense gives him.
If the offense is stagnant at times, which also happened with the triangle, then we have some hustle guys like Jordan Hill giving such a great boost with his second and third opportunities. The offense isn't flashy, but it works, it puts up points on the board, and more importantly, it gave the lakers the third seed, with a 2-0 lead in the playoffs.
No, I also question Kobe's shot selection.....but he makes shots that don't make any sense too. Has Kobe single handedly lost games for us.....absolutely. We have a bunch of docile players who can't create their own shot and don't shoot 3's at a good %......so Kobe's volume should be high.....he....and I don't trust the rest of the guys to really attack and go all out to win, thankfully Bynum is getting there. I would absolutely love for Pau to be more aggressive going toward the basket and taking more shots, but without falling away, he is severely lacking as a 7 footer when it comes to drawing fouls.....way too passive.
Again, you don't understand the difference between coaching a fluid offense and stats, no need to even discuss the issue.
Being impressed by beating Denver is like thinking you belong in the NBA because you hit shots by yourself in your driveway :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
BallsOut
05-08-2012, 10:10 PM
Another double double by Hill, this one on the road in limited minutes. Very impressive :applause:
To think if the Lakers had pullen the trigger on Beasley and given up that 1st rounder, they'd never be able to pry Hill from Houston, not saying one player is better than another, but Hill just fits in really well with this team.
And to think, at the beginning of the season, Troy Murphy was brought in for this very reason :facepalm Ship his ass out!
The Laker's only issue now is bench scoring production.
lakerfreak
05-10-2012, 11:52 AM
No, I also question Kobe's shot selection.....but he makes shots that don't make any sense too. Has Kobe single handedly lost games for us.....absolutely. We have a bunch of docile players who can't create their own shot and don't shoot 3's at a good %......so Kobe's volume should be high.....he....and I don't trust the rest of the guys to really attack and go all out to win, thankfully Bynum is getting there. I would absolutely love for Pau to be more aggressive going toward the basket and taking more shots, but without falling away, he is severely lacking as a 7 footer when it comes to drawing fouls.....way too passive.
Again, you don't understand the difference between coaching a fluid offense and stats, no need to even discuss the issue.
Being impressed by beating Denver is like thinking you belong in the NBA because you hit shots by yourself in your driveway :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Sorry it took a while to respond. I started a full time job.
As for statistics, yes they aren't everything, but you're dismissing every single statistic. Stats come from somewhere. They let us understand how things will play out. If a center like Bynum gets many shot attempts, and is shooting at 60%, it likely means he will keep getting those same shot attempts at a similar success rate.
You yourself keep grading the offense by the fact that "the lakers had their lowest point average per game for a while". But wait, I thought stats are different from a fluid offense?
Points come from the speed of the game. Lakers are a half court team, and they play slow, full time. They get very few fast break opportunities. Does that mean their offense is doomed to be terrible? No. It just means they need to keep playing together until it clicks.
DKLaker
05-10-2012, 01:13 PM
Sorry it took a while to respond. I started a full time job.
As for statistics, yes they aren't everything, but you're dismissing every single statistic. Stats come from somewhere. They let us understand how things will play out. If a center like Bynum gets many shot attempts, and is shooting at 60%, it likely means he will keep getting those same shot attempts at a similar success rate.
You yourself keep grading the offense by the fact that "the lakers had their lowest point average per game for a while". But wait, I thought stats are different from a fluid offense?
Points come from the speed of the game. Lakers are a half court team, and they play slow, full time. They get very few fast break opportunities. Does that mean their offense is doomed to be terrible? No. It just means they need to keep playing together until it clicks.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Why do you constantly speak of things you do not remotely understand????
If you really want to understand these things you need to either listen and understand to those who know.....or learn for yourself by coaching for an extended time.
There are a ton of ways you can score a high amount of points, it doesn't matter the pace of your style of play. What matters most is making the most of every possession, every time down the floor. If your goal is to take one shot and run away while the ball is in the air then you better shoot a very high %. If you always put 2 guys rebounding your misses you will score more points with 2nd chance opportunities. I could go through a million scenarios and the related situations but it would take way too long.
As for our offense....lmao, if players ran a crappy offense for 10 years and knew it well, it wouldn't be successful.....it would still be crap.
Brown has no clue as to how to run an offense and no clue as to how to mesh the styles and abilities of our players together.
Seriously, any coach who is so stupid that he cannot see how we can destroy any team in the NBA by running pick and rolls shouldn't be coaching in the NBA, he should go back to being a video editor/stats guy.....Metta had this right. Kobe needs to at least help the nitwit out by making a defensive adjustment to stop Andre Miller.
mr sax
05-10-2012, 02:40 PM
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Why do you constantly speak of things you do not remotely understand????
If you really want to understand these things you need to either listen and understand to those who know.....or learn for yourself by coaching for an extended time.
There are a ton of ways you can score a high amount of points, it doesn't matter the pace of your style of play. What matters most is making the most of every possession, every time down the floor. If your goal is to take one shot and run away while the ball is in the air then you better shoot a very high %. If you always put 2 guys rebounding your misses you will score more points with 2nd chance opportunities. I could go through a million scenarios and the related situations but it would take way too long.
As for our offense....lmao, if players ran a crappy offense for 10 years and knew it well, it wouldn't be successful.....it would still be crap.
Brown has no clue as to how to run an offense and no clue as to how to mesh the styles and abilities of our players together.
Seriously, any coach who is so stupid that he cannot see how we can destroy any team in the NBA by running pick and rolls shouldn't be coaching in the NBA, he should go back to being a video editor/stats guy.....Metta had this right. Kobe needs to at least help the nitwit out by making a defensive adjustment to stop Andre Miller.
For whatever reason, you just don't like Mike Brown. It works out perfectly for you so that you can blame Mike Brown if the Lakers get knocked out of the playoffs like they did last year when Phil Jackson was the coach. Do you think Phil Jackson is a "nitwit" too? Just sayin' is all...
[QUOTE=mr sax]For whatever reason, you just don't like Mike Brown. [QUOTE]
It's not just whatever reason. He's given a million of them and they are legit. It's funny to me that there's people that are so tolerant of a coach doing a mediocre job. This is the Lakers. Don't just settle for mediocrity. This team should be able to contend. You really can't compare this year to last year. There was way more drama going on last year (and Fish was still the PG....).
lakerfreak
05-10-2012, 05:03 PM
For whatever reason, you just don't like Mike Brown. It works out perfectly for you so that you can blame Mike Brown if the Lakers get knocked out of the playoffs like they did last year when Phil Jackson was the coach. Do you think Phil Jackson is a "nitwit" too? Just sayin' is all...
The bigger disappointment with more than half of this forum was that Mike Brown was hated on right after he was hired. he hadn't been given a fair shot, and just because in the very beginning when there was chemistry problems, people never factored in the lockout, or the players being out of shape, or the timeline for training camp.
This whole season was expected to be the way it happened. So far there were no surprises to me, other than the blossoming of Bynum, which was a good surprise.
Kobe himself said at the end of the regular season that his relationship with Mike Brown was better than ever. But hey, if its never in the best interest of the person debating, nobody acknowledges it.
lakerfreak
05-10-2012, 05:07 PM
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Why do you constantly speak of things you do not remotely understand????
If you really want to understand these things you need to either listen and understand to those who know.....or learn for yourself by coaching for an extended time.
There are a ton of ways you can score a high amount of points, it doesn't matter the pace of your style of play. What matters most is making the most of every possession, every time down the floor. If your goal is to take one shot and run away while the ball is in the air then you better shoot a very high %. If you always put 2 guys rebounding your misses you will score more points with 2nd chance opportunities. I could go through a million scenarios and the related situations but it would take way too long.
As for our offense....lmao, if players ran a crappy offense for 10 years and knew it well, it wouldn't be successful.....it would still be crap.
Brown has no clue as to how to run an offense and no clue as to how to mesh the styles and abilities of our players together.
Seriously, any coach who is so stupid that he cannot see how we can destroy any team in the NBA by running pick and rolls shouldn't be coaching in the NBA, he should go back to being a video editor/stats guy.....Metta had this right. Kobe needs to at least help the nitwit out by making a defensive adjustment to stop Andre Miller.
Oh yes because Kobe, Bynum, and Pau all couldn't play together this season :rolleyes:
You act like Andre Miller is so guardable. Instead of questioning Brown, why don't you question Ramon Session's weak frame, that can't seem to rotate well defensively on the right guys?
And I got some time, why don't you go through the millions of scenarios? I have yet to hear just one from you.
lakerfreak
05-10-2012, 05:09 PM
[QUOTE=mr sax]For whatever reason, you just don't like Mike Brown. [QUOTE]
It's not just whatever reason. He's given a million of them and they are legit. It's funny to me that there's people that are so tolerant of a coach doing a mediocre job. This is the Lakers. Don't just settle for mediocrity. This team should be able to contend. You really can't compare this year to last year. There was way more drama going on last year (and Fish was still the PG....).
I think you can compare last season to this. Why not? How was this a mediocre season? How is a top seed in the west mediocre? Why don't you point out the legit reasons so we can examine your claim that this would have been, in fact, a mediocre season?
[QUOTE=dd24][QUOTE=mr sax]For whatever reason, you just don't like Mike Brown.
I think you can compare last season to this. Why not? How was this a mediocre season? How is a top seed in the west mediocre? Why don't you point out the legit reasons so we can examine your claim that this would have been, in fact, a mediocre season?
I didn't say the season was mediocre. The coach is mediocre. He hasn't changed a thing from his Cleveland days. He sucked then and he sucks now. Of course I'm not going to give him a fair chance from the start. Why in the world would I????? It wasn't like he ever proved himself to make good decisions in his previous job. It was a terrible hiring. The Lakers could win the title this year and I would still say that it's a terrible hiring. Mike Brown should be an assistant in this league.
DKLaker
05-10-2012, 11:59 PM
[QUOTE=lakerfreak][QUOTE=dd24]
I didn't say the season was mediocre. The coach is mediocre. He hasn't changed a thing from his Cleveland days. He sucked then and he sucks now. Of course I'm not going to give him a fair chance from the start. Why in the world would I????? It wasn't like he ever proved himself to make good decisions in his previous job. It was a terrible hiring. The Lakers could win the title this year and I would still say that it's a terrible hiring. Mike Brown should be an assistant in this league.
He doesn't understand this at all, we might as well be speaking in a language he never heard of. Everyone who really knows basketball knows he's a crap coach.
He has no business coaching an NBA team.
I am happy there are guys like you who understand :cheers:
DKLaker
05-11-2012, 12:01 AM
Oh yes because Kobe, Bynum, and Pau all couldn't play together this season :rolleyes:
You act like Andre Miller is so guardable. Instead of questioning Brown, why don't you question Ramon Session's weak frame, that can't seem to rotate well defensively on the right guys?
And I got some time, why don't you go through the millions of scenarios? I have yet to hear just one from you.
I already said what I would do to stop Miller......but any communication with you on this stuff is a waste of my time, you don't get it.
Did anybody else hear what Barkley said after the game? The Lakers lost due to strategy. Karl is a better coach than Brown......
Frank Foley
05-11-2012, 01:45 AM
The bigger disappointment with more than half of this forum was that Mike Brown was hated on right after he was hired. he hadn't been given a fair shot, and just because in the very beginning when there was chemistry problems, people never factored in the lockout, or the players being out of shape, or the timeline for training camp.
This whole season was expected to be the way it happened. So far there were no surprises to me, other than the blossoming of Bynum, which was a good surprise.
Kobe himself said at the end of the regular season that his relationship with Mike Brown was better than ever. But hey, if its never in the best interest of the person debating, nobody acknowledges it.
Oh please. You really think we don't want Brown to succeed, just so we could be proven right?
Let me explain it to you via analogy. (I'm not arguing by analogy--I'm just trying to elucidate what I and a lot of Laker fans were feeling when Brown was hired).
Imagine you owned the finest sports car ever. It was one of a kind, ran like a dream--the only problem was that it was so complicated and expensive that no mechanic on Earth could fix it once it inevitably broke down. Still, you had a great 10+ years with the thing, and wouldn't have traded your time with it for anything.
So your best-of-its-kind-ever car is gone. But, thankfully, over the last 10+ years, you've amassed enough money to buy literally ANY car on the open market. Dealers are FIGHTING each other just to get the chance to offer you their best.
This time around, you want something different. Your old car was really, really nice but really expensive and high-maintenance, so you pass on the Bugatti, Aston Martin and Lamborghini. OK, then. That's understandable.
You're offered a nice range of reliable but still high performance cars. A high-end BMW or Lexus becomes available, but you pass. You think you know cars, and you want to take the car that really WOWed you in its test drive.
Imagine if the car you ultimately picked was a 1987 Datsun pickup. And you paid in the price range of the BMW or Lexus, even though you totally didn't have to. Do you truly, honestly expect your friends to not give you crap (or at least not be surprised) when they find out what you picked?
This is where you roll your eyes at me for comparing Mike Brown to a 1987 Datsun. But it's not a complete insult. Those things were solid and reliable. You knew what you had with them. They were nice non-date cars.
But, again, you had your pick of EVERY CAR ON THE OPEN MARKET AND YOU PICKED A FREAKING DATSUN. Expect more than a little bit of second-guessing to take place.
So, yeah. I would love love LOVE to have to eat crow. Win a championship, Mike Brown. I would gladly retire my ISH account forever on principle if he won us a title. And as a mod, you can actually hold me to that. Do it. You have my permission.
But I expect and know better.
Oh, and by the way, your post had an air of pretension in it that's pretty hilarious (I'm not sure if it was intentional, so forgive me if I'm wrong). Calling out your team when it does something questionable does NOT make you a bad fan. Just like being an apologist or contrarian to these alleged haters does not make you a better fan. I'm not calling you an apologist, btw, but to say we're being big meanie heads for not giving Brownie a chance is to miss the point entirely. This is the mother****ing LAKERS. A B- or C+ coach is not gonna cut it.
And one more thing. You're suggesting that Brown is getting an unfair share of the blame when things go wrong. I can only give anecdotal evidence, but most of the fury I saw from Laker fans tonight was levied at the entire team. Brown got his portion of hater stew, but most of the fans I know and read rightfully called out Bynum and Gasol (and pretty much everyone but Kobe and Hill) for giving less than one iota of ****.
That seems... fair to me. They all deserve to be called out. Brown hasn't made the necessary adjustments, Bynum's being a team cancer, Gasol's turned back into Unengaged McPassivity, Sessions and Blake still don't play defense, Barnes and Ebanks have been shooting the ball like they owe a Denver mob boss money, etc. Kobe's the only one bringing it every night, and that fact alone is why so many fans give him a free pass when he goes 1-on-5 on a given night.
DKLaker
05-11-2012, 02:29 AM
Frank Foley that was :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
AND Datsun :roll: :roll: :roll:
I'm not sure Lakerfreak knows what a Datsun is :D
FF, I can complain that you don't post enough.....but I can't complain about the QUALITY of your posts :cheers:
Frank Foley, that's the best way I've seen it explained. I've been trying to put that into words for a while now. And yes tonight there's a lot of finger pointing to do, it's not just the coach. It really looks like there's guys who have just given up and I have to wonder if it has something to do with Brown or not. After watching Bynum's post game comments it really seems like he's completely checked out. He was pretty upset about not playing in the 4th quarter too. Pau didn't show up at all and while he has been professional publicly about his role change with the team one would have to think he's not happy about it. Or maybe Pau's wife cheated on him again (because she just likes to do that during the playoffs) and this time it was with Bynum :lol :oldlol: :D
DKLaker
05-11-2012, 02:45 AM
Did anybody else hear what Barkley said after the game? The Lakers lost due to strategy. Karl is a better coach than Brown......
There are a ton of AAU, High School, College, NBA, FIBA etc coaches who would destroy Mike Brown in a even level talent head to head battle.
I'm not kidding.....the dumbass still cant figure out that playing Blake and Sessions at the same time is a stupid idea. We need a real coach. Kobe should have sat out the game and coached the team tonight....the only chance we had.
I'm not kidding.....the dumbass still cant figure out that playing Blake and Sessions at the same time is a stupid idea. We need a real coach. Kobe should have sat out the game and coached the team tonight....the only chance we had.
I was really confused by the small ball move too. That's the whole reason Brewer was lighting it up..... Blake and Sessions are too small to be guarding him. The guy is 6'9". Why on earth did it take so long to get a SF back on the court??? Not to mention it was Pau and Hill in the front court at that time too wasn't it? At least have Bynum in the game if he's going to make a move like that. It would've been crazy for him to sit Kobe in the begining of the 4th too. I'm glad Kobe pleaded with him to stay in the game. That was really smart of Kobe. Kobe realized if they were going to make a run they needed to do it right away and if the game was still out of control then he'd end up getting his rest at the end of the game. You at least have to go all in and give it a chance rather than try to give up in the begining of the 4th.
I mentioned before there's more fingers to be pointed tonight than just at Brown, but those are some of the things that really upset me that he did tonight.
TryToBeUnbias
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
No knock on Hill but Murphy should probably see time with bynum.
Hill with gasol.
DKLaker
05-11-2012, 08:21 PM
No knock on Hill but Murphy should probably see time with bynum.
Hill with gasol.
I think I know where you're going with this....and I'll probably agree with you, so please explain your reasons.
No knock on Hill but Murphy should probably see time with bynum.
Hill with gasol.
I see the logic behind it on paper but I just haven't been impressed with what Murphy has done at all. I'd rather just see Hill and McRoberts.
TryToBeUnbias
05-12-2012, 12:26 AM
I think I know where you're going with this....and I'll probably agree with you, so please explain your reasons.
Spacing ? then yes that's exactly where I'm going with it the nuggets have no respect for the Lakers perimeter shooting.
TryToBeUnbias
05-12-2012, 12:30 AM
I see the logic behind it on paper but I just haven't been impressed with what Murphy has done at all. I'd rather just see Hill and McRoberts.
I'd like to see mcroberts play a little more as well he'd do better on maninmal or whatever his name is I just haven't had any complaints about Hills play other the fact that I feel like he shouldn't be shooting at all.
Like I posted previously I was just looking for someone to help space the floor so at least one the twin towers has more room to operate.
Honestly Defense is the main issue.
Oh please. You really think we don't want Brown to succeed, just so we could be proven right?
Let me explain it to you via analogy. (I'm not arguing by analogy--I'm just trying to elucidate what I and a lot of Laker fans were feeling when Brown was hired).
Imagine you owned the finest sports car ever. It was one of a kind, ran like a dream--the only problem was that it was so complicated and expensive that no mechanic on Earth could fix it once it inevitably broke down. Still, you had a great 10+ years with the thing, and wouldn't have traded your time with it for anything.
So your best-of-its-kind-ever car is gone. But, thankfully, over the last 10+ years, you've amassed enough money to buy literally ANY car on the open market. Dealers are FIGHTING each other just to get the chance to offer you their best.
This time around, you want something different. Your old car was really, really nice but really expensive and high-maintenance, so you pass on the Bugatti, Aston Martin and Lamborghini. OK, then. That's understandable.
You're offered a nice range of reliable but still high performance cars. A high-end BMW or Lexus becomes available, but you pass. You think you know cars, and you want to take the car that really WOWed you in its test drive.
Imagine if the car you ultimately picked was a 1987 Datsun pickup. And you paid in the price range of the BMW or Lexus, even though you totally didn't have to. Do you truly, honestly expect your friends to not give you crap (or at least not be surprised) when they find out what you picked?
This is where you roll your eyes at me for comparing Mike Brown to a 1987 Datsun. But it's not a complete insult. Those things were solid and reliable. You knew what you had with them. They were nice non-date cars.
But, again, you had your pick of EVERY CAR ON THE OPEN MARKET AND YOU PICKED A FREAKING DATSUN. Expect more than a little bit of second-guessing to take place.
So, yeah. I would love love LOVE to have to eat crow. Win a championship, Mike Brown. I would gladly retire my ISH account forever on principle if he won us a title. And as a mod, you can actually hold me to that. Do it. You have my permission.
But I expect and know better.
Oh, and by the way, your post had an air of pretension in it that's pretty hilarious (I'm not sure if it was intentional, so forgive me if I'm wrong). Calling out your team when it does something questionable does NOT make you a bad fan. Just like being an apologist or contrarian to these alleged haters does not make you a better fan. I'm not calling you an apologist, btw, but to say we're being big meanie heads for not giving Brownie a chance is to miss the point entirely. This is the mother****ing LAKERS. A B- or C+ coach is not gonna cut it.
And one more thing. You're suggesting that Brown is getting an unfair share of the blame when things go wrong. I can only give anecdotal evidence, but most of the fury I saw from Laker fans tonight was levied at the entire team. Brown got his portion of hater stew, but most of the fans I know and read rightfully called out Bynum and Gasol (and pretty much everyone but Kobe and Hill) for giving less than one iota of ****.
That seems... fair to me. They all deserve to be called out. Brown hasn't made the necessary adjustments, Bynum's being a team cancer, Gasol's turned back into Unengaged McPassivity, Sessions and Blake still don't play defense, Barnes and Ebanks have been shooting the ball like they owe a Denver mob boss money, etc. Kobe's the only one bringing it every night, and that fact alone is why so many fans give him a free pass when he goes 1-on-5 on a given night.Your finest sportscar in the world got swept out of the playoffs by a pickup truck last year
Frank Foley
05-12-2012, 01:58 AM
[QUOTE=B
Four points:
1) I said at the very beginning that I wasn't arguing by analogy--I was trying to explain what I (and others) were thinking when this whole thing went down.
2) I also mentioned that Phil's time was up--I still wouldn't trade those years for anything, would you?
3) Carlisle was more like a pickup truck with a hidden turbocharged engine. People are going to argue that it's 20/20 hindsight, but he truly was a respected basketball mind even prior to last year. And if anecdotal evidence isn't good enough for you, just look at how he continued to tinker and adjust throughout last year's playoffs. He did a great job. I haven't seen Datsun doing the same.
4) It was unnecessary to quote that entire long post just to throw in a one-liner. But thanks for the acknowledgment earlier in the thread.
Gotcha Bobo :cheers: !!!!!!!
magicmanfan
05-13-2012, 02:53 PM
Honestly Defense is the main issue.
I think it's consistent effort that is missing....
Sometimes we look like a serious contender.. other times
we suk!
Gotcha Bobo :cheers: !!!!!!!
It's sad that was the high point of your day but keep doing what you do.
Obvoiusly Frank Foley takes himself to seriously and fails to recognize sarcasm.
You'd think somebody not arguing by analogy by typing an analogy would be more receptive.
Fact is many in this forum has been all over Mike Brown since day one with no reason other than he's not Phil Jackson. Now I will grant most of it done by known trolls using multiple accounts to to provide their own support in their discussion but still this forum has for the most part lacked any critical thinking skills when it comes to this season the new CBA the future of the Lakers. We actually had people chiding the Lakers front office for not going after Chauncey Billiups and Lin when the facts are the Lakers couldn't go after them. That's just two examples but far from the only instances I've read this season
Far from the high point of my day, but it was a good post nonetheless. You're way off base when you say the reason people don't like Brown is because he's not Phil Jackson. It's because he's not a good coach! We've explained this in great detail many times. He's mediocre at best and Lakers fans want better than that. It's pretty simple. They could've hired a number of different people and nobody would be ripping on the coach like this at all. It would be one thing if it was just the fans. When all the ex nba players who do commentary and give their opinions as well have said the same and pointed out how many mistakes he's made that's definitely more than forum trolls. Let's not forget, Cleveland fired this guy because Lebron was fed up with him and didn't want to play for him any more. They did so as a last ditch effort to try to keep him there. That really sounds like a guy that people want to play for...... The Chauncey thing was a while ago but if I remember correctly the Lakers did try to go after him. They just didn't put in as high of a bid as the Clippers did, because the Clippers had all kinds of cap space. I'm glad the Lakers didn't go after Lin. He's way over rated. Let him stay on another team that won't be able to win any championships.Prime example of what I'm talking about.
For the last time due to the new CBA the Lakers are barred from bidding on Billups Lin and any other player that was or is waived. They cannot bid or make offers on free agents if they are over the cap until every team under the lux cap has passed on bidding for that players services.
The rest of your post is mostly hot air. Show us some actual quotes bring us some actual data and stop re-vomiting up sports writers conjecture that 95% of the time is just made up or distorted stories for the blind followers to read.
Chaz ring a bell? Berger made saps out of so many laker fans with that one and all he does weeks later is tweet I stand corrected when the facts are revealed.
If all those experts are so stupid and you're so smart why don't you just take one of their jobs? There's no hot air to what I said. Just read through the threads on this message board and you'll see that most people don't think Mike Brown is a good coach and we've given plenty of specific examples as to why. You can post your BS but when it comes down to it the only two people here who really like Brown as a coach and try to defend him are you and Lakerfreak. The rest of the world doesn't view him as a good coach based on all of his bonehead moves that I'm not going to repost over again.
If all those experts are so stupid and you're so smart why don't you just take one of their jobs? There's no hot air to what I said. Just read through the threads on this message board and you'll see that most people don't think Mike Brown is a good coach and we've given plenty of specific examples as to why. You can post your BS but when it comes down to it the only two people here who really like Brown as a coach and try to defend him are you and Lakerfreak. The rest of the world doesn't view him as a good coach based on all of his bonehead moves that I'm not going to repost over again.
:facepalm
Translated: "I can't find one valid link to back up my point so I'll just keep blowing hot air"
Frank Foley
05-24-2012, 06:30 AM
[QUOTE=B
DKLaker
05-24-2012, 01:53 PM
Far from the high point of my day, but it was a good post nonetheless. You're way off base when you say the reason people don't like Brown is because he's not Phil Jackson. It's because he's not a good coach! We've explained this in great detail many times. He's mediocre at best and Lakers fans want better than that. It's pretty simple. They could've hired a number of different people and nobody would be ripping on the coach like this at all. It would be one thing if it was just the fans. When all the ex nba players who do commentary and give their opinions as well have said the same and pointed out how many mistakes he's made that's definitely more than forum trolls. Let's not forget, Cleveland fired this guy because Lebron was fed up with him and didn't want to play for him any more. They did so as a last ditch effort to try to keep him there. That really sounds like a guy that people want to play for...... The Chauncey thing was a while ago but if I remember correctly the Lakers did try to go after him. They just didn't put in as high of a bid as the Clippers did, because the Clippers had all kinds of cap space. I'm glad the Lakers didn't go after Lin. He's way over rated. Let him stay on another team that won't be able to win any championships.
WTF is with anyone who thinks they know basketball defending MB.....as you said EVERYONE who knows the game knows he is a turrible coach :oldlol:
Some folks need to be given an NBA IQ test.....lol.
tamaraw08
05-26-2012, 04:45 PM
From the start I wanted Rick Adelman,( like DK) and I wanted Mike Brown only as the team's defensive coordinator.
I have my own issues with Mike but I don't think he is that terrible like some fans here think, calling him patato head, clown, clueless etc.
Brown lead Cleveland to a pretty good record and I don't think it's just bec of the greatness of Lebron along with his horde of role players.
Lakers was the 3rd best team in the West, with Kobe struggling at 42% Pau taking in a new role and a weak bench. Factor in that they had very limited training camp and preseason games etc.
If Mike is so dumb and stupid, Lakers would have really struggled winning, team and players stats would be revealing all these and most importantly, players would surely revolt like what happened so many times before.
Am I saying that Mike Brown is a great coach? Absolutely not.
but my goodness....one fan here boldly stated that any coach would have easily guided this team to wins over Boston, Dallas, OKC, Spurs etc like Brown did...:eek:
DKLaker
05-27-2012, 11:42 PM
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke-lakers-brown-20120525,0,1024366.column
Great article on Mike Brown
As much as Mike Brown's lack of coaching disturbs me, his comments about the game......virtually all of his comments are horrifying. He tells reporters that he has no idea what type of energy his team will come out with????
WTF.....is he a fan or is he the coach of the team? I'll be damned if I ever make an idiotic comment like that, he is coaching a veteran championship team and he doesn't know they are fired up nor that he has done anything to fire them up....Plasche even knew this was disturbing. The guy doesn't have the winning mind of a championship coach.....nor any coaching ability.
This reminds me of Adam Morrison......guys were saying that they expected big things his last season with the Lakers. I told everyone that he just doesn't move or react like an NBA player, he so badly failed my eye test it wasn't even funny. Brown fails my eye test, ear test......every test I have.
Tam.....on any given day any team can beat another team.....do you really think ANY team in basketball history has gone a season only losing to contenders??? We have enough talent on this team to beat anyone with or without a coach on a given night.....don't try to credit Brown for a few regular season wins as if that is what the Lakers are all about :banghead:
tamaraw08
05-29-2012, 06:53 PM
[url]Tam.....on any given day any team can beat another team.....do you really think ANY team in basketball history has gone a season only losing to contenders??? We have enough talent on this team to beat anyone with or without a coach on a given night.....don't try to credit Brown for a few regular season wins as if that is what the Lakers are all about :banghead:
Yes, you have a valid point that on a given day any tean can beat another but without a "coach on a given night? against the top teams?
Lakers won 62% of their games, won the series vs the Clips, swept Dallas and Boston etc etc. Again Im not saying Brown is a good coach but the worst one? I disagree.
If this is the case, it would manifest in
1. Stats and win/loss records. Their offense would be less efficient, ranking in the bottom 3rd in FG%, turnovers, assists/game. Thier defense will be porous, bottom 3rd in allowed pts, FG% blocks, etc etc.
2. Leaders on the team will be extremely vocal to the point of ripping him in public and/or internally. As you and some other fans explained before, superstars will get coaches fired. Magic did it, MJ, Howard, Deron Williams, etc etc. If they can't get the coach fired, there are other ways like playing half heartedly, or faking injuries resulting to bad losses.
ok let me ask you where do you rank Mike Brown with the following coaches.
Flip Saunders, Vinny Del Negro, Paul Westphall, Paul Silas, Keith Smart, Lionel Hollins, Erik Spoelstra. Would you please rank them from best to worst? thanks... esp for not using profanities and insults.:rockon:
TryToBeUnbias
05-29-2012, 07:29 PM
Didn't the Lakers organization go after none of the player MB wanted ?
DKLaker
05-30-2012, 05:09 PM
Yes, you have a valid point that on a given day any tean can beat another but without a "coach on a given night? against the top teams?
Lakers won 62% of their games, won the series vs the Clips, swept Dallas and Boston etc etc. Again Im not saying Brown is a good coach but the worst one? I disagree.
If this is the case, it would manifest in
1. Stats and win/loss records. Their offense would be less efficient, ranking in the bottom 3rd in FG%, turnovers, assists/game. Thier defense will be porous, bottom 3rd in allowed pts, FG% blocks, etc etc.
2. Leaders on the team will be extremely vocal to the point of ripping him in public and/or internally. As you and some other fans explained before, superstars will get coaches fired. Magic did it, MJ, Howard, Deron Williams, etc etc. If they can't get the coach fired, there are other ways like playing half heartedly, or faking injuries resulting to bad losses.
ok let me ask you where do you rank Mike Brown with the following coaches.
Flip Saunders, Vinny Del Negro, Paul Westphall, Paul Silas, Keith Smart, Lionel Hollins, Erik Spoelstra. Would you please rank them from best to worst? thanks... esp for not using profanities and insults.:rockon:
LMAO.....you do realize we have a helluva lot of talent right???
I bet my old butt could take down the baddest warrior if I was armed with a machine gun and he had a pea shooter.....lol.
In case you missed it, the Lakers players have no respect for Brown as a coach.....is anyone actually arguing against this???
I rank Mike Brown last among the coaches you listed....just a bit behind Vinny. Mike Brown doesn't even understand the game he is supposed to be coaching. His real experience is that of a video editor......not even someone who can analyze the video. Now the guy is conning his way into jobs with the greatest players in the league......it would be completely laughable if not for the fact that we hired him. I used to laugh at the guy when he coached Cleveland.....I mean it was extremely obvious that he had no clue as to what he was doing.......they may as well hired a team's massage therapist to coach for all the guy knew.
Vinny at least played in the NBA, at least he knows something about the game. Coach Spo is also laughable, it was like giving the keys to the greatest race car ever to a kid who just passed drivers training.....lol.
If Miami wins it will be because of superior talent NOT his coaching.
lakerfreak
05-30-2012, 05:16 PM
Didn't the Lakers organization go after none of the player MB wanted ?
Mike Brown thought he was going to have a team that consisted of CP3, Kobe, and Dwight. After all that failed, he thought he was going to have a team with Lamar Odom off the bench. That failed as well.
The season was tough to begin with. Anxious to see how this off-season plays out. One thing is for sure, the title of this thread is who we need to keep. I've never seen someone hustle so much, and have stats to back it up. He was way more valuable than McRoberts.
tamaraw08
05-30-2012, 07:29 PM
LMAO.....you do realize we have a helluva lot of talent right???I bet my old butt could take down the baddest warrior if I was armed with a machine gun and he had a pea shooter.....lol.
In case you missed it, the Lakers players have no respect for Brown as a coach.....is anyone actually arguing against this???
I rank Mike Brown last among the coaches you listed....just a bit behind Vinny. Mike Brown doesn't even understand the game he is supposed to be coaching. His real experience is that of a video editor......not even someone who can analyze the video. Now the guy is conning his way into jobs with the greatest players in the league......it would be completely laughable if not for the fact that we hired him. I used to laugh at the guy when he coached Cleveland.....I mean it was extremely obvious that he had no clue as to what he was doing.......they may as well hired a team's massage therapist to coach for all the guy knew.
Vinny at least played in the NBA, at least he knows something about the game. Coach Spo is also laughable, it was like giving the keys to the greatest race car ever to a kid who just passed drivers training.....lol.
If Miami wins it will be because of superior talent NOT his coaching.
ahh How do you define helluva talent, again?:confusedshrug:
1.Your leader shoots 42%, contemplated on retiring after registering all time playoff lows, had to go to Germany to get that plasma thing last summer
2. As you whined and cried for 4 years that Fisher is the WORST starting PG, backed up by your detailed stats.
3. YOu also proclaimed that Pau is as soft as puppy crap who grew a female reproductive anatomy.
4. You lose your BEST 6TH man, Lamar Odom to Dallas for nothing.:banghead:
5. YOu said Steve Blake is a SCRUB!!!:hammerhead:
6. You starting center is one of the most selfish players around, losing his cool, getting tossed in couple of games, suspended for 5 games or simply would not hustle when he doesn'tget the ball.
7. YOur bench is arguably the weakest in the entire league, so much so you whined about the managements' inability to sign players like Jeremy Lin..:rolleyes:
8. Your starting SF, Metta shot like 18 % from the 3pt area, shot like 33% from the field the first 3 months.
See how it all works out for your argument when you basically trashed everybody from the Lakers roster not named Kobe?
Yeah, thats helluva talent, better than the Clips with thier talent? Memphis?
What about Boston with their big 4 who had a lower record?
Ok I get it, you hate Mike Brown.
DKLaker
05-30-2012, 08:02 PM
ahh How do you define helluva talent, again?:confusedshrug:
1.Your leader shoots 42%, contemplated on retiring after registering all time playoff lows, had to go to Germany to get that plasma thing last summer
2. As you whined and cried for 4 years that Fisher is the WORST starting PG, backed up by your detailed stats.
3. YOu also proclaimed that Pau is as soft as puppy crap who grew a female reproductive anatomy.
4. You lose your BEST 6TH man, Lamar Odom to Dallas for nothing.:banghead:
5. YOu said Steve Blake is a SCRUB!!!:hammerhead:
6. You starting center is one of the most selfish players around, losing his cool, getting tossed in couple of games, suspended for 5 games or simply would not hustle when he doesn'tget the ball.
7. YOur bench is arguably the weakest in the entire league, so much so you whined about the managements' inability to sign players like Jeremy Lin..:rolleyes:
8. Your starting SF, Metta shot like 18 % from the 3pt area, shot like 33% from the field the first 3 months.
See how it all works out for your argument when you basically trashed everybody from the Lakers roster not named Kobe?
Yeah, thats helluva talent, better than the Clips with thier talent? Memphis?
What about Boston with their big 4 who had a lower record?
Ok I get it, you hate Mike Brown.
A bad coach will make any team worse while a great coach will elevate a bad team or mediocre players, this is a no-brainer.
If we had a better coach we would've had a better result.....don't embarrass yourself trying to argue against this.
The Clippers have a bad coach and a ton of injuries, Memphis had a ton of injuries, for them to have been as close to us in the standings as they were is a complete embarrassment.
tamaraw08
05-31-2012, 01:17 AM
A bad coach will make any team worse while a great coach will elevate a bad team or mediocre players, this is a no-brainer.
If we had a better coach we would've had a better result.....don't embarrass yourself trying to argue against this.
The Clippers have a bad coach and a ton of injuries, Memphis had a ton of injuries, for them to have been as close to us in the standings as they were is a complete embarrassment.
So, Mike Brown made a team whose leader shot 42%,
-having the worst starting PG for the majority of the season,
-a very soft PF,
- an incredibly selfish center,
-No Lamar Odom,
-a struggling SF
-weakest bench etc etc made it worse by winning a paltry 62% win/loss record, better than Boston, Clips, Memphis etc,:rolleyes: okay.
DKLaker
05-31-2012, 01:28 AM
So, Mike Brown made a team whose leader shot 42%,
-having the worst starting PG for the majority of the season,
-a very soft PF,
- an incredibly selfish center,
-No Lamar Odom,
-a struggling SF
-weakest bench etc etc made it worse by winning a paltry 62% win/loss record, better than Boston, Clips, Memphis etc,:rolleyes: okay.
Apparently you don't understand what a coach does......if you don't get that there is no point to continue a discussion with you.
Just a hint of 1 thing........having a good offense helps the players respect you, gives the team easy baskets and gives your star players easier scoring opportunities.......YOU'RE WELCOME :D .
lakerfreak
05-31-2012, 05:40 PM
Apparently you don't understand what a coach does......if you don't get that there is no point to continue a discussion with you.
Just a hint of 1 thing........having a good offense helps the players respect you, gives the team easy baskets and gives your star players easier scoring opportunities.......YOU'RE WELCOME :D .
I think having a good coach does make an offense easier for someone to shoot better than 42%.
But with Tam's other points, I don't see how the coach could change these. For example, When Ron was struggling, he was wide open and still missing. It is probably due to his back issues he had this season so I can't blame Ron much. He did get better during mid season after all.
Pau Gasol was soft, is still soft, and will always be soft. I can't see any coach improving that. Not at this age.
Worst starting PG for most of the season. Even you agreed Fisher was terrible. Coach couldn't bring him back to his old days.
No Lamar Odom...Him + Management. That was it. Odom was a moron, and lakers called his bluff.
Phil Jackson couldn't even stop Bynum from being selfish. He had to work around it. A selfish Bynum didn't do that bad this season either. He just has to mature more.
But with player shooting percentages, I agree with you DK. That definitely is an offense issue. I never said Brown was amazing. I think he is average. There are worse coaches than Brown. At least his defensive schemes were good. Bring in Del Negro or Scott Brooks....Del Negro had a team arguably better than the lakers. Younger, more athletic, and better role players and bench. Im surprised LAC brought him back. Scott Brooks has a bunch of young talent. Two superstars, and great role players, and Harden. If he had a losing record, I'd laugh. In my opinion, which is humble, and is not fact, I believe if you put mike brown on those teams, they do significantly better than those two coaches.
DKLaker
05-31-2012, 06:44 PM
I think having a good coach does make an offense easier for someone to shoot better than 42%.
But with Tam's other points, I don't see how the coach could change these. For example, When Ron was struggling, he was wide open and still missing. It is probably due to his back issues he had this season so I can't blame Ron much. He did get better during mid season after all.
Pau Gasol was soft, is still soft, and will always be soft. I can't see any coach improving that. Not at this age.
Worst starting PG for most of the season. Even you agreed Fisher was terrible. Coach couldn't bring him back to his old days.
No Lamar Odom...Him + Management. That was it. Odom was a moron, and lakers called his bluff.
Phil Jackson couldn't even stop Bynum from being selfish. He had to work around it. A selfish Bynum didn't do that bad this season either. He just has to mature more.
But with player shooting percentages, I agree with you DK. That definitely is an offense issue. I never said Brown was amazing. I think he is average. There are worse coaches than Brown. At least his defensive schemes were good. Bring in Del Negro or Scott Brooks....Del Negro had a team arguably better than the lakers. Younger, more athletic, and better role players and bench. Im surprised LAC brought him back. Scott Brooks has a bunch of young talent. Two superstars, and great role players, and Harden. If he had a losing record, I'd laugh. In my opinion, which is humble, and is not fact, I believe if you put mike brown on those teams, they do significantly better than those two coaches.
Wow.....I took SO MUCH HEAT for calling Pau soft last offseason and most of this season :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Now it is a proven fact :banana:
The team would've done better if the bench was used properly and bad players minutes were cut. ron Shouldn't have gotten as many minutes until he proved he could cut it.......this was the time to keep Ebanks in the mix to develop him. Same goes for DFish....shouldn't have been playing more than 10 minutes per game EVER.....start Blake and give Goudelock and even Morris a chance to develop and get comfortable......this is why San Antonio is as good as they are. Goudelock is the best pure shooter on the team and he was left to rot on the bench.....this is idiotic.
I would NEVER have Pau more than 15 feet away from the basket PERIOD!!! I'm old school, I like my PF's to rebound, Pau doesn't get any rebounds if he is 20 feet out and the shot goes up.....his shooting from distance sucks too.......this is what happens when you have a horrible coach. Pau needed to work in closer range with Bynum, opposite sides of the paint, better angles etc....
The Lakers acted almost as immature as Odom. Nuff Said.
Of course Bynum needs to mature more but when everyone knows the coach is clueless, that his plays are dumb and he really doesn't know how to relate to the team....do you actually expect him to mature under those conditions??? Obviously he was worse attitude wise than he was last year.
I guarantee you that this time next year you guys will be calling brown a moron, just like you all now admit Pau is soft and done........but don't worry, I always have room for my Lakers brothers on my bandwagon :cheers:
tamaraw08
06-01-2012, 12:53 AM
Wow.....I took SO MUCH HEAT for calling Pau soft last offseason and most of this season :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Now it is a proven fact :banana:
The team would've done better if the bench was used properly and bad players minutes were cut. ron Shouldn't have gotten as many minutes until he proved he could cut it.......this was the time to keep Ebanks in the mix to develop him. Same goes for DFish....shouldn't have been playing more than 10 minutes per game EVER.....start Blake and give Goudelock and even Morris a chance to develop and get comfortable......this is why San Antonio is as good as they are. Goudelock is the best pure shooter on the team and he was left to rot on the bench.....this is idiotic.
I would NEVER have Pau more than 15 feet away from the basket PERIOD!!! I'm old school, I like my PF's to rebound, Pau doesn't get any rebounds if he is 20 feet out and the shot goes up.....his shooting from distance sucks too.......this is what happens when you have a horrible coach. Pau needed to work in closer range with Bynum, opposite sides of the paint, better angles etc....
The Lakers acted almost as immature as Odom. Nuff Said.
Of course Bynum needs to mature more but when everyone knows the coach is clueless, that his plays are dumb and he really doesn't know how to relate to the team....do you actually expect him to mature under those conditions??? Obviously he was worse attitude wise than he was last year.
I guarantee you that this time next year you guys will be calling brown a moron, just like you all now admit Pau is soft and done........but don't worry, I always have room for my Lakers brothers on my bandwagon :cheers:
For the record, I said "you proclaimed, Pau is soft", In a way, losing his hunger and being contended with his 2 rings is somewhat "soft"...
Pau's first 3 yrs here, the first 2, Bynum was hardly playing, battling the likes of Nene, Duncan, Howard, Perkins etc, I felt he did a pretty good job esp with his lean physique. Yes, I wish he had that fierce attitude of a Kenyon Martin or the hustle of Noah and the built of Nene etc but he did REALLY helped the team the first 3 years and I am grateful for that.
lakerfreak
06-01-2012, 03:46 AM
Wow.....I took SO MUCH HEAT for calling Pau soft last offseason and most of this season :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Now it is a proven fact :banana:
The team would've done better if the bench was used properly and bad players minutes were cut. ron Shouldn't have gotten as many minutes until he proved he could cut it.......this was the time to keep Ebanks in the mix to develop him. Same goes for DFish....shouldn't have been playing more than 10 minutes per game EVER.....start Blake and give Goudelock and even Morris a chance to develop and get comfortable......this is why San Antonio is as good as they are. Goudelock is the best pure shooter on the team and he was left to rot on the bench.....this is idiotic.
I would NEVER have Pau more than 15 feet away from the basket PERIOD!!! I'm old school, I like my PF's to rebound, Pau doesn't get any rebounds if he is 20 feet out and the shot goes up.....his shooting from distance sucks too.......this is what happens when you have a horrible coach. Pau needed to work in closer range with Bynum, opposite sides of the paint, better angles etc....
The Lakers acted almost as immature as Odom. Nuff Said.
Of course Bynum needs to mature more but when everyone knows the coach is clueless, that his plays are dumb and he really doesn't know how to relate to the team....do you actually expect him to mature under those conditions??? Obviously he was worse attitude wise than he was last year.
I guarantee you that this time next year you guys will be calling brown a moron, just like you all now admit Pau is soft and done........but don't worry, I always have room for my Lakers brothers on my bandwagon :cheers:
Easy now last season I was against pau too :D.
I made comments that if you're getting paid 19 million, you should play well regardless of girl problems.
True professionals separate their personal life from their work. If they can't do that, they take a leave of absence.
Easy now last season I was against pau too :D.
I made comments that if you're getting paid 19 million, you should play well regardless of girl problems.
True professionals separate their personal life from their work. If they can't do that, they take a leave of absence.
As Colin Cowherd has always said (and I believe this to be true to a certain extent) there's two things in life that drive men crazy..... sports and beautiful women. Since Pau plays sports I think he suffers more from the latter. As we've all mentioned at some point, we really appreciate him for his part in two championships here. I just don't see it as a fit anymore. It's not even that he can't be productive.... it's more that this is the Lakers! He's an asset. He needs to be turned into another one. I think more from a business/winning (maybe a bit more winning, lol) perspective. Shed that contract for another player who will bring the team more equity long term. It's certainly possible since the Lakers have more profilts to do so.
BallsOut
06-02-2012, 09:10 PM
You guys realize that this thread is about Jordan Hill right? The last 4 pages have gone off on a tangent, I don't even think Hill's name was mentioned even once. Don't overrate Hill by adding pages to this thread!! :biggums:
lakerfreak
06-04-2012, 12:39 PM
You guys realize that this thread is about Jordan Hill right? The last 4 pages have gone off on a tangent, I don't even think Hill's name was mentioned even once. Don't overrate Hill by adding pages to this thread!! :biggums:
lol stuff like this happens all the time. You comment on something, it goes in a different direction. I love basketball.
DKLaker
06-05-2012, 02:22 AM
lol stuff like this happens all the time. You comment on something, it goes in a different direction. I love basketball.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :cheers:
And does this really matter if we went off track in this thread :confusedshrug: not to me :D
lakerfreak
06-05-2012, 12:28 PM
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :cheers:
And does this really matter if we went off track in this thread :confusedshrug: not to me :D
As long as we're posting, and its interesting, we're happy, Jeff is happy, everyone is happy! :D
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