Wilt Chamberlains playoff stats for dummies:

[CavaliersFTW]

http://kommein.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/For-Dummies.gif

His playoff games played with his 3 different team roles were disproportionate in frequency relative to his regular season career stats.

Wilt played 24 playoff games as the teams dedicated volume scorer

Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1959-60 23 PHW NBA 9 415 125 252 49 110 232 19 17 299 .496 .445 46.1 33.2 25.8 2.1
1960-61 24 PHW NBA 3 144 45 96 21 38 69 6 10 111 .469 .553 48.0 37.0 23.0 2.0
1961-62 25 PHW NBA 12 576 162 347 96 151 319 37 27 420 .467 .636 48.0 35.0 26.6 3.1

Combined NBA 24 1135 332 695 166 299 620 62 54 830 .478 .555 47.3 34.6 25.8 2.6




Wilt played 56 playoff games as a playmaker and balanced defensive/offensive anchor


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 12 558 175 322 66 139 302 39 27 416 .543 .475 46.5 34.7 25.2 3.3
1964-65 28 PHI NBA 11 536 123 232 76 136 299 48 29 322 .530 .559 48.7 29.3 27.2 4.4
1965-66 29 PHI NBA 5 240 56 110 28 68 151 15 10 140 .509 .412 48.0 28.0 30.2 3.0
1966-67 30 PHI NBA 15 718 132 228 62 160 437 135 37 326 .579 .388 47.9 21.7 29.1 9.0
1967-68 31 PHI NBA 13 631 124 232 60 158 321 85 29 308 .534 .380 48.5 23.7 24.7 6.5

Combined NBA 56 2683 610 1124 292 661 1510 322 132 1512 .543 .441 47.9 27.0 26.9 5.8



Wilt played 80 playoff games as defensive anchor and an opportunistic scorer


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1968-69 32 LAL NBA 18 832 96 176 58 148 444 46 46 250 .545 .392 46.2 13.9 24.7 2.6
1969-70 33 LAL NBA 18 851 158 288 82 202 399 81 42 398 .549 .406 47.3 22.1 22.2 4.5
1970-71 34 LAL NBA 12 554 85 187 50 97 242 53 33 220 .455 .515 46.2 18.3 20.2 4.4
1971-72 35 LAL NBA 15 703 80 142 60 122 315 49 47 220 .563 .492 46.9 14.7 21.0 3.3
1972-73 36 LAL NBA 17 801 64 116 49 98 383 60 48 177 .552 .500 47.1 10.4 22.5 3.5

Combined NBA 80 3741 483 909 299 667 1783 289 216 1265 .531 .448 46.7 15.8 22.3 3.6


A whopping 50 percent of his career playoff games are played from the age of 32-36, as a defensive anchor.

Where as only 32 percent of his career regular season games are played from that same age with that same role.

Basically, career playoff and career regular season stats should not be compared directly w/o an understanding of differences like this. Season to season is a better gauge, or simply using the stats I calculated above and comparing them with his regular season stats from the seasons played with that same team-role.

[PTB Fan]

Interesting way of separating Wilt's stats, considering he played three roles in his career. First role (prolific scorer/rebouder) during his first few years of his career up to 64. Then, from 65 to 69 he had the role of an all-around beast (his best role IMO, most dominant at it. Props to his coach.. forgot his name for using that) and then from 69 to the rest of the career.. arguably the best defender in the league and on one case best player as well.

What a legend :bowdown:


Still, i'd say that there's another good way of looking at his stats. First 8 years as the focal point of his teams on both sides (meaning mostly on offense) and then a second part, focusing mostly as a defensive anchor.

[oolalaa]

http://kommein.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/For-Dummies.gif

His playoff games played with his 3 different team roles were disproportionate in frequency relative to his regular season career stats.

Wilt playoff games as a dedicated volume scorer...

Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1959-60 23 PHW NBA 9 415 125 252 49 110 232 19 17 299 .496 .445 46.1 33.2 25.8 2.1
1960-61 24 PHW NBA 3 144 45 96 21 38 69 6 10 111 .469 .553 48.0 37.0 23.0 2.0
1961-62 25 PHW NBA 12 576 162 347 96 151 319 37 27 420 .467 .636 48.0 35.0 26.6 3.1

Combined NBA 24 1135 332 695 166 299 620 62 54 830 .478 .555 47.3 34.6 25.8 2.6





Wilt playoff games as a high-post playmaker and balanced defensive/offensive anchor.


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 12 558 175 322 66 139 302 39 27 416 .543 .475 46.5 34.7 25.2 3.3
1964-65 28 PHI NBA 11 536 123 232 76 136 299 48 29 322 .530 .559 48.7 29.3 27.2 4.4
1965-66 29 PHI NBA 5 240 56 110 28 68 151 15 10 140 .509 .412 48.0 28.0 30.2 3.0
1966-67 30 PHI NBA 15 718 132 228 62 160 437 135 37 326 .579 .388 47.9 21.7 29.1 9.0
1967-68 31 PHI NBA 13 631 124 232 60 158 321 85 29 308 .534 .380 48.5 23.7 24.7 6.5

Combined NBA 56 2683 610 1124 292 661 1510 322 132 1512 .543 .441 47.9 27.0 30.0 5.8



Wilt playoff games as defensive anchor.


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1968-69 32 LAL NBA 18 832 96 176 58 148 444 46 46 250 .545 .392 46.2 13.9 24.7 2.6
1969-70 33 LAL NBA 18 851 158 288 82 202 399 81 42 398 .549 .406 47.3 22.1 22.2 4.5
1970-71 34 LAL NBA 12 554 85 187 50 97 242 53 33 220 .455 .515 46.2 18.3 20.2 4.4
1971-72 35 LAL NBA 15 703 80 142 60 122 315 49 47 220 .563 .492 46.9 14.7 21.0 3.3
1972-73 36 LAL NBA 17 801 64 116 49 98 383 60 48 177 .552 .500 47.1 10.4 22.5 3.5

Combined NBA 80 3741 483 909 299 667 1783 289 216 1265 .531 .448 46.7 15.8 22.3 3.6


50 percent of his career playoff games are played from the age of 32-36, as a defensive anchor.

32 percent of his career regular season games are played from that same age with that same role.

Basically, career playoff and career regular season stats should not be compared directly w/o an understanding of differences like this. Season to season is a better gauge, or simply using the stats I calculated above and comparing them with his regular season stats from the seasons played with that same team-role.

Yep, very good. This needs to be pointed out to the casual fan.

However, on the whole, his post season play was inferior to his regular season play, just not to the extent that the raw numbers show.

[CavaliersFTW]

Interesting way of separating Wilt's stats, considering he played three roles in his career. First role (prolific scorer/rebouder) during his first few years of his career up to 64. Then, from 65 to 69 he had the role of an all-around beast (his best role IMO, most dominant at it. Props to his coach.. forgot his name for using that) and then from 69 to the rest of the career.. arguably the best defender in the league and on one case best player as well.

What a legend :bowdown:


Still, i'd say that there's another good way of looking at his stats. First 8 years as the focal point of his teams on both sides (meaning mostly on offense) and then a second part, focusing mostly as a defensive anchor.

Alex Hannum, one of only 3 coaches throughout Wilt's career that Wilt respected and therefore listened too when different roles were suggested.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yep, very good. This needs to be pointed out to the casual fan.

However, on the whole, his post season play was inferior to his regular season play, just not to the extent that the raw numbers show.

The overall point you suggest is only true for the scoring seasons his first 3 playoff appearances. All the feedback from old newspapers, public opinion and overall consensus from his time of how he did was that he was overwhelmingly solid in the playoffs through his prime and veteran years with few to no exceptions. His scoring is not the marker. His assists, rebounds, blocked shots (which can be seen in newspapers) and the amount of free throws or strategic plays he'd make down the stretch are what counted. I've yet to find a playoff series coverage in the google news archives that has said he wasn't performing well from 1964 - on

[CavaliersFTW]

Interesting way of separating Wilt's stats, considering he played three roles in his career. First role (prolific scorer/rebouder) during his first few years of his career up to 64. Then, from 65 to 69 he had the role of an all-around beast (his best role IMO, most dominant at it. Props to his coach.. forgot his name for using that) and then from 69 to the rest of the career.. arguably the best defender in the league and on one case best player as well.

What a legend :bowdown:


Still, i'd say that there's another good way of looking at his stats. First 8 years as the focal point of his teams on both sides (meaning mostly on offense) and then a second part, focusing mostly as a defensive anchor.
Alex Hannum actually removed him from the low-post and placed him in the high-post on offense where he'd simply hand off to teammates and help orchestrate the offense... regardless of whether he was a #1 scorer or not the wide margins of him vs the next guys were no longer present because of his radically different approach in contrast to his first 3 playoff runs (or 4 reg seasons) where he was strictly a "feed me the ball in the low post" player. On the Lakers he then moved back to the low-post but with yet another radically different role. As a center, he approached the game 3 extremely different ways, splitting it into two after learning all of this makes me feel like it doesn't make any sense to split it 2 ways, it cuts his diminished scoring/facilitating years in two and just doesn't look right.

[oolalaa]

The overall point you suggest is only true for the scoring seasons his first 3 playoff appearances. All the feedback from old newspapers, public opinion and overall consensus from his time of how he did was that he was overwhelmingly solid in the playoffs through his prime and veteran years with few to no exceptions. His scoring is not the marker. His assists, rebounds, blocked shots (which can be seen in newspapers) and the amount of free throws or strategic plays he'd make down the stretch are what counted. I've yet to find a playoff series coverage in the google news archives that has said he wasn't performing well from 1964 - on

The one that sticks out is '69. Going from averaging a 21/21/5 on 58% in the regular season to 14/25/3 on 55% in the post season. Blame it on Breda Kolff all you want, it wont change how he ACTUALLY PERFORMED.

Of course, I could also mention that the Wilt led sixers chucked away a 3-1 series lead in the '68 ECF and that he had a pathetic second half in that do or die game 7. Or the fact that his FG% and FT% declined almost every single year from the regular season to the playoffs.

Wilt was the greatest regular season player of all time. He lost a couple too many close, big games in the post season, for me.

[CavaliersFTW]

The one that sticks out is '69. Going from averaging a 21/21/5 on 58% in the regular season to 14/25/3 on 55% in the post season. Blame it on Breda Kolff all you want, it wont change how he ACTUALLY PERFORMED.

Of course, I could also mention that the Wilt led sixers chucked away a 3-1 series lead in the '68 ECF and that he had a pathetic second half in that do or die game 7. Or the fact that his FG% and FT% declined almost every single year from the regular season to the playoffs.

Wilt was the greatest regular season player of all time. He lost a couple too many close, big games in the post season, for me.

Your right about 69 I've got no issues with that - doesn't make him a poor playoff performer for everything else though - when he had coaches that he didn't want to murder he really got shit done in the playoffs. '68 is fair to call into question too, it's one series I haven't read up on yet.

[jlauber]

Your right about 69 I've got no issues with that - doesn't make him a poor playoff performer for everything else though - when he had coaches that he didn't want to murder he really got shit done in the playoffs. '68 is fair to call into question too, it's one series I haven't read up on yet.

In '68, Wilt played all 48 mpg, of ALL SEVEN of those playoff games, and in the last FIVE he was playing with a torn calf muscle, as well as an assortment of other injuries...and was NOTICEABLY LIMPING over the course of those FIVE games.

Then, factor in that HOFer Billy Cunningham broke his wrist in the previous round against the Knicks...and didn't play AT ALL in the ECF's. And yet, Philly STILL had a 3-1 series lead.

BUT, in game five, BOTH Luke Jackson and Wali Jones sustained leg injuries, and were basically worthless the rest of the series. BTW, even with that, the Sixers, with that 3-1 series lead, were only down 81-79 late in the third period of that game five, before falling apart in the 4th period. BTW, Chamberlain hung a 28-30 game in that game five.

Chamberlain played a miserable game in game six, only shooting 6-21 from the floor, and 8-23 from the line, but here again, he PLAYED. And he STILL pulled down 27 rebounds.

And in game seven, Wilt TOUCHED the ball on the offensive end, NINE times in the second half (and only TWICE in the 4th quarter...and BOTH were on offensive rebounds)...in a 100-96 loss. And that crippled Wilt could only outscore Russell, 14-12, and outrebound him, 34-26.

AND, this was a GREAT team, to be sure, BUT, they had very little DEPTH. Chamberlain, despite his injuries (keep in mind that Willis Reed had a similar injury in the '70 Finals, and didn't do a thing in the last three games; and Kareem, with a sprained ankle, took off a game six of the Finals)...PLAYED. 48 MPG. For the series, an INJURY-RIDDLED Chamberlain averaged 22.1 ppg and 25.1 rpg.

[dunksby]

Could not make a free throw to save his life :lol

[jlauber]

In Wilt's first eight seasons, and covering seven post-seasons, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in league's that shot .426 over that span...or nearly a 100 points higher than the league average)...COMBINED!

In those 67 games, he faced Russell's Celtics in 35 of them.

He also had entire playoffs of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg (and on .543 shooting), 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. Included in those were playoff series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. He also had FOUR playoff series of 30+ ppg, just against RUSSELL, including a seven game series in which he averaged 30 ppg and 31 rpg.

He also had FOUR 50+ point games, THREE of which came in either a game three of a best-of-three series; a game five of a best of series; or a "must win elimination" game (a 50-35 game against RUSSELL.)

As for his entire post-season career...

this is all anyone really needs to know...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250076


The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games.

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.chokeanddie.com/IMAGES/choking.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Bump for Millwad. Wilt's role on his team changed significantly at least 3 times in his career, and a greater relative number of post season games was played during seasons where his role was not to lead his team in scoring. This is not an excuse, it's a historical fact. You can't just gloss over it.

[Marchesk]

http://www.chokeanddie.com/IMAGES/choking.jpg

Do you guys have to bring Lebron into every single thread?

[TheReal Kendall]

:applause:

You're great poster dude

[Round Mound]

:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

-1962 Regular Season
50.4 ppg, 50.6% fg

-1962 Playoffs
35.0 ppg, 46.7%bfg

[CavaliersFTW]

-1962 Regular Season
50.4 ppg, 50.6% fg

-1962 Playoffs
35.0 ppg, 46.7%bfg
:applause: Great - your not lumping his career stats - this is a step in the right direction, now, if you would please dig in and start researching newspaper recaps of each of the games / series he played in the playoffs in 1962 and see what the written consensus/summaries are of how he and his opposition performed. Be sure to cover all sides of the documented 'story', Boston/Philly - and Neutral prited reactions. Than you'll finally be ready to form as honest-as-possible conclusion of how he performed in the 1962 playoffs!

[Deuce Bigalow]

:applause: Great - your not lumping his career stats - this is a step in the right direction, now, if you would please dig in and start researching newspaper recaps of each of the games / series he played in the playoffs in 1962 and see what the written consensus/summaries are of how he and his opposition performed. Be sure to cover all sides of the documented 'story', Boston/Philly - and Neutral prited reactions. Than you'll finally be ready to form as honest-as-possible conclusion of how he performed in the 1962 playoffs!
-Game 7
22 points

[millwad]

Wilt's playoff scoring average was 22.5 points and his PER 36 minute average in the playoffs was 17.2 points per game.

Overrated.

[CavaliersFTW]

bumpity bump

[Johnny Jones]

Do you guys have to bring Lebron into every single thread?
:roll:

Jun 2013 :applause: :applause:

[TheTenth]

It's even more dynamic than this 3 lumping together:

1. Volume scorer but offense doesn't necessarily revolve around Wilt.
a. 1960
b. 1961
2. Volume scorer/playmaker in high post.
a. 1962 (RS to playoffs strategy change; cited in "The Rivalry")
b. 1964
c. 1965 (trade to Philly w/ Greer + Walker reduces scoring load)
d. 1966 (addition of Billy Cunningham reduces scoring load)
3. High post playmaker
a. 1967
b. 1968
4. Low post defensive Anchor/Opportunist scorer
a. 1969
b. 1970
c. 1971
5. Low post defensive anchor/Low volume scorer
a. 1972
b. 1973

^ 4 and 5 need work, but I can address every one of his post seasons from 1960 - 68 to give understanding of "why Wilt's PPG dropped," but only for people truly interested in knowing for purely intellectual reasons; no "stans" or "haters." You can shoot me a pm for more.

[Sarcastic]

-1962 Regular Season
50.4 ppg, 50.6% fg

-1962 Playoffs
35.0 ppg, 46.7%bfg



35 ppg is bad?

[Asukal]

For being one of the greatest scorers known in NBA history why the hell did they ask him to pass more? If he was so good on scoring, why should he pass more? Unless of course his scoring isn't really working and he is just stat padding to the detriment of his team. :roll:

Jordan was asked to trust his team mates more yet his scoring only dipped a few points down. They told him, nobody won the title as the scoring champ and he went out to prove them wrong. Wilt? He listened to the coaches and won 2 rings lol. :confusedshrug:

[plowking]

For being one of the greatest scorers known in NBA history why the hell did they ask him to pass more? If he was so good on scoring, why should he pass more? Unless of course his scoring isn't really working and he is just stat padding to the detriment of his team. :roll:

Jordan was asked to trust his team mates more yet his scoring only dipped a few points down. They told him, nobody won the title as the scoring champ and he went out to prove them wrong. Wilt? He listened to the coaches and won 2 rings lol. :confusedshrug:


This idiot.

Get Jordan's balls out of your mouth brah. Its off putting to the people that have to talk to you face to face.

[avonbarksdale]

easily the worst poster on the site tbh please stop making threads about a dead player

[Lebron23]

Do you guys have to bring Lebron into every single thread?

LeBron is a superior playoffs performer than Chokeberlain. Lebron's numbers are way better in the playoffs. And another Finals MVP and Regular Season MVP, and he already surpasses Wilt the stiff. They are both top 7-9 players of all time. I rank Duncan and Shaq over Wilt.

[Sarcastic]

Lol @ Wilt in 7-9 range. Dude is top 5 without question.

[Lebron23]

Lol @ Wilt in 7-9 range. Dude is top 5 without question.

4 MVP, 1 Finals MVP. and 2 championships. Good all around numbers by Wilt, but he was not even a top 3 scorer in the finals.

[Sarcastic]

4 MVP, 1 Finals MVP. and 2 championships. Good all around numbers by Wilt, but he was not even a top 3 scorer in the finals.

Bill Russell has 0 FMVP. Award wasn't invented till 1969. Can't use something that didn't exist and hold it against him.

[Marchesk]

4 MVP, 1 Finals MVP. and 2 championships. Good all around numbers by Wilt, but he was not even a top 3 scorer in the finals.

In terms of impact on the game, Lebron will never exceed Wilt. You can think he's the better overall performer, but nobody did what Wilt did statistically in the history of the game.

It's kid of like arguing that Eli Manning >>>>> Dan Marino. Eli has two great playoff runs, but who goes down in history as having a much bigger impact on the game? Marino, without question.

[Sarcastic]

Another thing. MVP was voted on by the players back then. He didn't win when he put up 50/26 because Russell was more beloved by the other players in the league. Meanwhile LeBron has won his MVPs beating out 21 year old Durant and other past prime players. LeBron's MVPs have to taken with a grain of salt. It's much harder to beat Russell for MVP than Derrick Rose.

[TheTenth]

In terms of impact on the game, Lebron will never exceed Wilt. You can think he's the better overall performer, but nobody did what Wilt did statistically in the history of the game.

It's kid of like arguing that Eli Manning >>>>> Dan Marino. Eli has two great playoff runs, but who goes down in history as having a much bigger impact on the game? Marino, without question.
It's important to note that LeBron's career is not over. LeBron still has the potential to surpass Wilt.

[LongLiveTheKing]

So many excuses for one player.

[Sarcastic]

It's important to note that LeBron's career is not over. LeBron still has the potential to surpass Wilt.

True but saying he is better now is retarded. LeBron could blow out his knee tomorrow.

[TheTenth]

True but saying he is better now is retarded. LeBron could blow out his knee tomorrow.
Right; but I don't think it would be correct to state that LeBron could "never" surpass Wilt in anything, barring maybe height. Your last statement's theme is very key and insightful; there is always potential for the uncertainty.

[Asukal]

This idiot.

Get Jordan's balls out of your mouth brah. Its off putting to the people that have to talk to you face to face.

Ohhh this coming from a Lebron stan with Lechoke's c0ck in his mouth. Hilarious! :roll:

[plowking]

Ohhh this coming from a Lebron stan with Lechoke's c0ck in his mouth. Hilarious! :roll:

Seems like you're perfectly okay with gargling another mans balls though, as long as its Jordan.

I on the other hand don't roll that way. :oldlol:

[3LiftHeatCurse]

------ copy paste from another site -----------

I've absolutely had it with the blind Wilt homerism and willful ignorance of the media. They are all textbook examples of people who look at the stats without placing them in the proper context, and I expect more from "professionals." Old school players like Kareem and Oscar don't know any better, so their ignorance is excusable, but not people who try to debate who the greatest players are.

Alas, I will take my shots at Kareem. First of all, that man's letter was one giant contradiction. Is he weighing total points or averages more heavily? I ask because he brings up Wilt's season averages to debunk the notion MJ is the best scorer ever, in the same letter that he not so subtly emphasizes the fact that he's the all-time leader in points scored.

Let's keep perspective here, Kareem. Or did you just happen to overlook the fact Jordan has a higher career, playoff and finals scoring average than Wilt while also accumulating more Playoff points than you and claiming the record you once held, in considerably less games?

Enough said there.

Going back to Wilt, why don't people call out this man for being the ultimate stat padder? He refused to play defense with five fouls, because of his having never fouled out in a game his entire career. He aggressively gave up perfectly good quality shots to pass the ball excessively, just to prove he could pass. In his 100 point game, his teammates were intentionally fouling the other team so that Wilt could have more possessions.

Why do we praise this as an example of all-time greatness? For example, I keep hearing about Wilt's 50 PPG season average over and over and over, but I never hear people mention the fact he took 40 shots to get those 50 points. To put it in perspective, since that's so important to Kareem, when Jordan averaged 37 PPG, he did so on 28 shots, and in my opinion, against much more competition than Wilt, with rules that favored his defender.

Do people really think a Jordan, Kobe or Shaq couldn't rack up close to 50 point averages in their prime, if they literally took 40 or more shots per game?. Wilt was the epitome of a statpadding ballhog, and the reason Jordan or Kobe never did that is because it's not winning basketball, and Wilt's lack of success in the post-season and against Bill Russell is a testament to that.

Why doesn't he have 50 PPG averages in the post-season? Why doesn't he lead in points in the post-season? Where did all his glorious stats go on the biggest stages? Oh, that's right. Wilt was all about me until the lights shined brightest and he pulled a Houdini on his team mates. Hell, Wilt wasn't even very efficient for a big man; he barely cracked 50% shooting in that 50 PPG season, whereas Shaq has had 58-60% averages for his entire career.

Wilt was such a selfish, choking statpadder, that there were teams who did not want him on their team in his prime. Can you imagine anyone not wanting a Prime Jordan or Prime Shaq if the option was available? Hell no.

To be perfectly honest, Wilt doesn't crack my top five list, and that's because he doesn't deserve it. He's easily one of the greatest athletes to have ever played his game, and it's wrong to hold his level of competition against him--to a degree--but why are we rewarding selfish statpadding so much? Wilt has accumulated the most meaningless, fraudulent statistics in NBA History, and it's a shame to the game of basketball that he is often mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan by old ignoramuses like Kareem who have no business trying to make informed analysis on other great players.

For the record, Kareem is the second best player of all time on my list. Doesn't make him any less wrong, however.

[Asukal]

Seems like you're perfectly okay with gargling another mans balls though, as long as its Jordan.

I on the other hand don't roll that way. :oldlol:

Yeah the whole world knows you're such a manly man. :rolleyes:
Not that it matters to anyone though. :roll:

Keep on sucking Lechoke's nuts plowedking. :applause:

[jlip]

For being one of the greatest scorers known in NBA history why the hell did they ask him to pass more? If he was so good on scoring, why should he pass more? Unless of course his scoring isn't really working and he is just stat padding to the detriment of his team. :roll:

Jordan was asked to trust his team mates more yet his scoring only dipped a few points down. They told him, nobody won the title as the scoring champ and he went out to prove them wrong. Wilt? He listened to the coaches and won 2 rings lol. :confusedshrug:

As far as the first paragraph is concerned, this is not a even a conversation that would have been had pre late 1980's. At one point in NBA history individual scoring was not viewed as the benchmark for greatness. Playing the game like Bill Russell where the focus was solely on contributing to winning whether you scored or not was how pre 1980's basketball minds understood greatness. That's partially why players like Wes Unseld and Bill Walton were able to win MVP's (Finals and regular season) while never averaging even 20ppg. Read this article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=EmMaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MyoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6402,3265566&dq=wilt+had+all+the+stats+and+personal+glory+but+b ill+russell+won+the+championships+and+was+held+in+ higher+esteem&hl=en) from 1979 about Kareem. Kareem was averaging a career low in points that season, but the story was that he was more valuable to his team that season than ever before. He was getting praised for contributing to his teammates scoring more as opposed to raising his scoring.

As to the 2nd paragraph, MJ's scoring only dipped a little because he was consumed with proving that a dominant scorer could win. He basically admits this in his Hall of Fame speech. Jordan "trusting his teammates" did not fundamentally change his role on the team. Even with trusting his teammates he was yet able to attempt more shots than everyone else in the league practically every full and healthy season of his career. A person's scoring is not supposed to dip that much when that's their approach to the game.

When Wilt modified his game his role totally changed where he was told to impact the game without concentrating on scoring. It was once felt that big men had an advantage over guards in being able to affect the game without having to score by anchoring a defense, controlling the backboard, and facilitating an offense from the high post.

To show you how the idea of greatness has changed over the generations I've seen several educated and informed people consider Wilt's '72 season one of his best ever despite avg. 14.8ppg in the regular season and 14.7 ppg in the playoffs.

[Sarcastic]

------ copy paste from another site -----------

I've absolutely had it with the blind Wilt homerism and willful ignorance of the media. They are all textbook examples of people who look at the stats without placing them in the proper context, and I expect more from "professionals." Old school players like Kareem and Oscar don't know any better, so their ignorance is excusable, but not people who try to debate who the greatest players are.

Alas, I will take my shots at Kareem. First of all, that man's letter was one giant contradiction. Is he weighing total points or averages more heavily? I ask because he brings up Wilt's season averages to debunk the notion MJ is the best scorer ever, in the same letter that he not so subtly emphasizes the fact that he's the all-time leader in points scored.

Let's keep perspective here, Kareem. Or did you just happen to overlook the fact Jordan has a higher career, playoff and finals scoring average than Wilt while also accumulating more Playoff points than you and claiming the record you once held, in considerably less games?

Enough said there.

Going back to Wilt, why don't people call out this man for being the ultimate stat padder? He refused to play defense with five fouls, because of his having never fouled out in a game his entire career. He aggressively gave up perfectly good quality shots to pass the ball excessively, just to prove he could pass. In his 100 point game, his teammates were intentionally fouling the other team so that Wilt could have more possessions.

Why do we praise this as an example of all-time greatness? For example, I keep hearing about Wilt's 50 PPG season average over and over and over, but I never hear people mention the fact he took 40 shots to get those 50 points. To put it in perspective, since that's so important to Kareem, when Jordan averaged 37 PPG, he did so on 28 shots, and in my opinion, against much more competition than Wilt, with rules that favored his defender.

Do people really think a Jordan, Kobe or Shaq couldn't rack up close to 50 point averages in their prime, if they literally took 40 or more shots per game?. Wilt was the epitome of a statpadding ballhog, and the reason Jordan or Kobe never did that is because it's not winning basketball, and Wilt's lack of success in the post-season and against Bill Russell is a testament to that.

Why doesn't he have 50 PPG averages in the post-season? Why doesn't he lead in points in the post-season? Where did all his glorious stats go on the biggest stages? Oh, that's right. Wilt was all about me until the lights shined brightest and he pulled a Houdini on his team mates. Hell, Wilt wasn't even very efficient for a big man; he barely cracked 50% shooting in that 50 PPG season, whereas Shaq has had 58-60% averages for his entire career.

Wilt was such a selfish, choking statpadder, that there were teams who did not want him on their team in his prime. Can you imagine anyone not wanting a Prime Jordan or Prime Shaq if the option was available? Hell no.

To be perfectly honest, Wilt doesn't crack my top five list, and that's because he doesn't deserve it. He's easily one of the greatest athletes to have ever played his game, and it's wrong to hold his level of competition against him--to a degree--but why are we rewarding selfish statpadding so much? Wilt has accumulated the most meaningless, fraudulent statistics in NBA History, and it's a shame to the game of basketball that he is often mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan by old ignoramuses like Kareem who have no business trying to make informed analysis on other great players.

For the record, Kareem is the second best player of all time on my list. Doesn't make him any less wrong, however.


I don't know what's worse. The content of this garbage or the fact that you copied it from another site.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This argument that the reason for his huge playoff ppg drop (30.1 to 22.5) was because he became more focused on defense and stopped being the primary scorer later on in his career doesn't even make sense. He did the same thing in the regular season too. From '60-'66 Wilt averaged over 33 ppg every regular season. From '66-'73 he never averaged more than 25 ppg in a regular season. Meaning he changed his role in the regular season too, not just in the playoffs.

Even if you look at his scoring prime and compare the regular season and playoff stats you will see a huge decline.
Wilt '60-'66 Regular season ppg: 39.6
Wilt '60-'66 Postseason ppg: 32.8

6.8 ppg drop-off, which is almost the same as his career 7.6 ppg drop-off.

[CavaliersFTW]

This argument that the reason for his huge playoff ppg drop (30.1 to 22.5) was because he became more focused on defense and stopped being the primary scorer later on in his career doesn't even make sense. He did the same thing in the regular season too. From '60-'66 Wilt averaged over 33 ppg every regular season. From '66-'73 he never averaged more than 25 ppg in a regular season. Meaning he changed his role in the regular season too, not just in the playoffs.

Even if you look at his scoring prime and compare the regular season and playoff stats you will see a huge decline.
Wilt '60-'66 Regular season ppg: 39.6
Wilt '60-'66 Postseason ppg: 32.8

6.8 ppg drop-off, which is almost the same as his career 7.6 ppg drop-off.
The ratio of playoff games he played while playing his different roles is not congruent with the ratio of regular season games he played while playing his different roles.

For example:
50% of his career playoff games were played as a defensive anchor in his 30's
But only 33% of his career regular season games were played as that defensive anchor role in his 30's.

This skews his cumulative career vs regular season career stats immensely. It's not difficult to understand.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The ratio of playoff games he played while playing his different roles is not congruent with the ratio of regular season games he played while playing his different roles.

For example:
50% of his career playoff games were played as a defensive anchor in his 30's
But only 33% of his career regular season games were played as that defensive anchor role in his 30's.

This skews his cumulative career vs regular season career stats immensely. It's not difficult to understand.
He dropped off in the playoffs immensely during his scoring prime. That is a fact that I already posted. He dropped off in his scoring years and in his defensive anchor years. I guess the old adage is once a choker, always a choker.

[LoneyROY7]

http://kommein.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/For-Dummies.gif

His playoff games played with his 3 different team roles were disproportionate in frequency relative to his regular season career stats.

Wilt played 24 playoff games as the teams dedicated volume scorer...

Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1959-60 23 PHW NBA 9 415 125 252 49 110 232 19 17 299 .496 .445 46.1 33.2 25.8 2.1
1960-61 24 PHW NBA 3 144 45 96 21 38 69 6 10 111 .469 .553 48.0 37.0 23.0 2.0
1961-62 25 PHW NBA 12 576 162 347 96 151 319 37 27 420 .467 .636 48.0 35.0 26.6 3.1

Combined NBA 24 1135 332 695 166 299 620 62 54 830 .478 .555 47.3 34.6 25.8 2.6




Wilt played 56 playoff games as a high-post playmaker and balanced defensive/offensive anchor.


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 12 558 175 322 66 139 302 39 27 416 .543 .475 46.5 34.7 25.2 3.3
1964-65 28 PHI NBA 11 536 123 232 76 136 299 48 29 322 .530 .559 48.7 29.3 27.2 4.4
1965-66 29 PHI NBA 5 240 56 110 28 68 151 15 10 140 .509 .412 48.0 28.0 30.2 3.0
1966-67 30 PHI NBA 15 718 132 228 62 160 437 135 37 326 .579 .388 47.9 21.7 29.1 9.0
1967-68 31 PHI NBA 13 631 124 232 60 158 321 85 29 308 .534 .380 48.5 23.7 24.7 6.5

Combined NBA 56 2683 610 1124 292 661 1510 322 132 1512 .543 .441 47.9 27.0 26.9 5.8



Wilt played 80 playoff games as defensive anchor and an opportunistic scorer.


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1968-69 32 LAL NBA 18 832 96 176 58 148 444 46 46 250 .545 .392 46.2 13.9 24.7 2.6
1969-70 33 LAL NBA 18 851 158 288 82 202 399 81 42 398 .549 .406 47.3 22.1 22.2 4.5
1970-71 34 LAL NBA 12 554 85 187 50 97 242 53 33 220 .455 .515 46.2 18.3 20.2 4.4
1971-72 35 LAL NBA 15 703 80 142 60 122 315 49 47 220 .563 .492 46.9 14.7 21.0 3.3
1972-73 36 LAL NBA 17 801 64 116 49 98 383 60 48 177 .552 .500 47.1 10.4 22.5 3.5

Combined NBA 80 3741 483 909 299 667 1783 289 216 1265 .531 .448 46.7 15.8 22.3 3.6


A whopping 50 percent of his career playoff games are played from the age of 32-36, as a defensive anchor.

Where as only 32 percent of his career regular season games are played from that same age with that same role.

Basically, career playoff and career regular season stats should not be compared directly w/o an understanding of differences like this. Season to season is a better gauge, or simply using the stats I calculated above and comparing them with his regular season stats from the seasons played with that same team-role.

Even in the three seasons in which he was the team's "dedicated volume scorer", he still had a fairly significant ppg drop-off from the regular season to the playoffs...

[CavaliersFTW]

Even in the three seasons in which he was the team's "dedicated volume scorer", he still had a fairly significant ppg drop-off from the regular season to the playoffs...
No shame there, he was going up against prime Bill Russell and the Celtics dynasty the majority of those playoff games. Remember, it was only best of 5 in the first round, best of 7 once he faced the Celtics. That team and Bill Russell held him under his normal regular season numbers during the regular season too, not just the playoffs.

[MiseryCityTexas]

nba needs to release video footage of wilt to dvd. i know they got it. figuratively **** stern.

[CavaliersFTW]

nba needs to release video footage of wilt to dvd. i know they got it. figuratively **** stern.
They don't have much if anything that hasn't already been shown in some documentary form or another. That said here's some clips of Wilt in his prime - I'm prepping for a prime Wilt highlight reel.

http://youtu.be/exvv6EqawL4?t=44s

[Iceman#44]

Good thread bump

[dubeta]

So in simple terms, how did Wilt go from a guy who averaged 50 points in one season, and a career 30 point scorer into a 19ppg finals performer??

[millwad]

No shame there, he was going up against prime Bill Russell and the Celtics dynasty the majority of those playoff games. Remember, it was only best of 5 in the first round, best of 7 once he faced the Celtics. That team and Bill Russell held him under his normal regular season numbers during the regular season too, not just the playoffs.

Oh, come on.

You guys are always making such a big deal out of Bill Russell defending Wilt in the playoffs.

First and most important, the defense was just not as good as you like to claim, if you watch the footage Wilt is being guarded by Russell alone almost every single time. In fact, I have heard you guys talk about the crazy defense he faced but the defensive schemes are no where to be found and he is beign guarded single handedly almost every time unless his own team spread the floor poorly.

Guys like Shaq and Olajuwon faced much tougher defense and you didn't see guys like them drop in terms of scoring and FG%.