How far did Lebron just climb on your all time list?

[pauk]

For those of you who think he has no place around #15... take a look at Lebrons current accomplishments compared to two guys who usually are around #15 on the all-time list.....


LEBRON JAMES NBA CAREER

3 x MVP
2 x All-Star MVP
Rookie of the Year
6 x All-NBA 1st team
4 x All-Defensive 1st team
8 x NBA All-Star
All-Rookie 1st team
2 x Gold Medal Olympics/FIBA
1 x NBA scoring champion
21 x Player of the Month trophies (most in NBA history)

CHARLES BARKLEY NBA CAREER

1 x MVP
1 x All-Star MVP
5 x All-NBA 1st team
11 x NBA All-Star
All-Rookie 1st team
2 x Gold Medal Olympics/FIBA
4 x Player of the Month trophies

KARL MALONE NBA CAREER

2 x MVP
2 x All-Star MVP
11 x All-NBA 1st team
3 x All-Defensive 1st team
14 x NBA All-Star
All-Rookie 1st team
2 x Gold Medal Olympics/FIBA
6 x Player of the Month trophies

[Scholar]

Didn't climb at all like a limbless chimp.

[Miller for 3]

Barkely isn't top 15 and neither is Lebron. Depends on how he plays in the playoffs but I could move him up to 14th if he has a good postseason

[rodman91]

3 Mvp?

[Alamo]

Somewhere between 15 and 20

[SpecialQue]

Stop copy and pasting the same bullshit in every thread. Doesn't your mouth get tired of being latched onto his nuts?

[PJR]

3 Mvp?

Um ya. it's a forgone conclusion.

And as far as where LeGod ranks on some imaginary, arbitrary GOAT list? Who the fuuuuk cares?

LeBron is one of the best to ever play. And that's all there is to it.

[Glide2keva]

He didn't

[pauk]

Barkely isn't top 15 and neither is Lebron. Depends on how he plays in the playoffs but I could move him up to 14th if he has a good postseason

Yea, i guess those lists are kindof personal... but I had Barkley always after Malone... and Malone i had always at #13-#14... ive seen many similar lists so...

[Heavincent]

I love how you have to mention shit like player of the month and ESPY awards. I mean come on, ESPY awards? Seriously? :roll: :roll:

[AMISTILLILL]

3 Mvp?

I caught that too. OP is a *******.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron is for sure top 20 if he wins his third MVP.

But he really can't move up much more unless he wins. Especially because this is now the 2nd year in a row he's had the best team...in the heart of his prime.

Losing again would severely hurt his legacy...especially if he chokes again like he did last year.

He's top 20 for sure no matter what happens the rest of his career, but in order to move up he's got some winning to do. And a lot of it because he's on such a good team now.

[StateOfMind12]

Why would he have climbed? He is on his way to win his 3rd MVP but MVPs mean nothing in all-time lists. Only championships, finals MVPs, and winning the title as the man matter. LeBron didn't do any of those yet so far this season so I'll let you know when the season is over before I tell you where I rank him on the all-time list. I currently have LeBron ranked in the 17-20 range and he is already ahead of Barkley in my opinion.

[pauk]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

[CelticBaller]

might as well recognize him for having the tastiest balls you ph@ggot

[StateOfMind12]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Larry Bird
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Wilt Chamberlain
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Julius Erving
14. Moses Malone
15. Karl Malone
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. David Robinson
19. LeBron James
20. Dwyane Wade

Something along the lines of this, not exactly though because I didn't put much thought onto this. I'm sure the list would be slightly different if I put more thought into it but it would still be similar.

[DMAVS41]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

Meh....don't agree with that. Lebron is right at 20 without a title. Last years' 'worst choke job from a superstar ever" prevents him from being above Dirk and KG and Barkley for me.

[CelticBaller]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Larry Bird
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Wilt Chamberlain
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Julius Erving
14. Moses Malone
15. Karl Malone
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. David Robinson
19. LeBron James
20. Dwyane Wade

Something along the lines of this.
wtf is dwayne wade doing there? :facepalm

[rodman91]

Moses Malone is a champion and he has 3 MVPs & FMVP.. 12 time Allstar. Why he is underrated?

[pauk]

Meh....don't agree with that. Lebron is right at 20 without a title. Last years' 'worst choke job from a superstar ever" prevents him from being above Dirk and KG and Barkley for me.

Are we really gona act like those all time greats were perfect or something? Like for example Larry Bird averaging once even less than Lebron in one finals in 1981 and during that finals had two back to back 8 point games?
Or.. how about Kobe averaging 15 PPG once in a Finals and 22 on the second and get carried to 3 championships?
Or how about................ please... just dont...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson
dirk, kg, hondo, mikan, isiah, baylor, and pettit are above lebron. plus the 15 you already have above. 23rd.

[TheNaturalWR]

Or how about................

LeBron having 2 points in four straight 4th quarters and consistently getting lit up on defense......

[pauk]

Moses Malone is a champion and he has 3 MVPs & FMVP.. 12 time Allstar. Why he is underrated?

I have him as high as possible, just cant have him over Jerry West and Oscar Robertson...

[d.bball.guy]

He didn't. He needs to stop being ringless. MVPs don't matter that much when it comes to All-time rankings.

[pauk]

LeBron having 2 points in four straight 4th quarters and consistently getting lit up on defense......

Bird having 0 points in four straight 4th quarters in 1981 and consistently NOT being able to defend anybody his entire life?

Magic earning the name Tragic-Johnson for choking away?

Oh me Oh my.... lets all just act like Lebron was the only one not being able to be godlike in a Finals....

[Deuce Bigalow]

Are we really gona act like those all time greats were perfect or something? Like for example Larry Bird averaging once even less than Lebron in one finals in 1981 and during that finals had two back to back 8 point games?
Or.. how about Kobe averaging 15 PPG once in a Finals and 22 on the second and get carried to 3 championships?
Or how about................ please... just dont...
Bird averaged 15 rpg in that series.
Kobe was injured after played 9 minutes in game 2 which brought his stats down
Kobe averaged 24.6 ppg his second finals, 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg in that playoffs

[Alamo]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Larry Bird
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Julius Erving
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Karl Malone
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. Lebron James
21. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
23. John Stockton
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Dwyane Wade

[Deuce Bigalow]

]Bird having 0 points in four straight 4th quarters in 1981 and consistently NOT being able to defend anybody his entire life?

Magic earning the name Tragic-Johnson for choking away?

Oh me Oh my.... lets all just act like Lebron was the only one not being able to be godlike in a Finals....
proof?

and don't compare magic's and bird's finals to Lebron's :facepalm

[pauk]

He didn't. He needs to stop being ringless. MVPs don't matter that much when it comes to All-time rankings.

Rings matter... but so does MVPs...

A players greatness cant be discredited for a team accomplishment... for not being blessed with the best supporting cast.... a player can control how HE plays, he cant control how the other guys play.... sick and tired of you people trying to act like championships are the act of one man....

Ranking All-Time greats you include EVERYTHING.... yes Lebron has no rings, thats why he is not in TOP 10... but with what he has now is worthy of 15-20 compared to what those other guys have... sorry

[DMAVS41]

Are we really gona act like those all time greats were perfect or something? Like for example Larry Bird averaging once even less than Lebron in one finals in 1981 and during that finals had two back to back 8 point games?
Or.. how about Kobe averaging 15 PPG once in a Finals and 22 on the second and get carried to 3 championships?
Or how about................ please... just dont...

not one of those guys choked on the level of Lebron. only one to come close was Kobe in 04...and Kobe has 5 rings.

its not about being perfect. its about Lebron having the worst choke job in nba history as a superstar player.

so.....please....just don't

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bird having 0 points in four straight 4th quarters in 1981 and consistently NOT being able to defend anybody his entire life?

Magic earning the name Tragic-Johnson for choking away?

Oh me Oh my.... lets all just act like Lebron was the only one not being able to be godlike in a Finals....
It was the biggest choke in nba history

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

That is untouchable

[Legends66NBA7]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Larry Bird
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Julius Erving
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Karl Malone
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. Lebron James
21. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
23. John Stockton
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Dwyane Wade

What's your reasoning for Wade below those 4 you mentioned ?

Just curious.

[DMAVS41]

Rings matter... but so does MVPs...

A players greatness cant be discredited for a team accomplishment... for not being blessed with the best supporting cast.... a player can control how HE players, he cant control how the other guys play....

Ranking All-Time greats you include EVERYTHING.... yes Lebron has no rings, thats why he is not in TOP 10... but with what he has now is worthy of 15-20 compared to what those other guys have... sorry

this post is exactly why Lebron isn't top 15 yet. he played horribly in the finals and then had the celtics disaster in 10. and if you talk about everything....he was also very poor in the finals in 07.

you are jumping the gun. if lebron wins this year...then he's top 15 all time. if he doesn't....he isn't.

stop being absurd...

[rodman91]

If he wins FMVP this year, rankings will be a lot different. He'll be certainly 10-15 range.

[Alamo]

What's your reasoning for Wade below those 4 you mentioned ?

Just curious.

They're retired.

Another championship would put him at 20, and Lebron at 16 on my list.

[pauk]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Larry Bird
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Julius Erving
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Karl Malone
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. Lebron James
21. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
23. John Stockton
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Dwyane Wade

Cool... 2 questions tho...

Why do you have Barkley over Nowitzki and better yet... Lebron...? (i really suggest you take a good look at my very 1st post and compare, no pun intended!)

Why do you have Dwyane Wade over Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek and better yet Rick Barry?

[StateOfMind12]

Moses Malone is a champion and he has 3 MVPs & FMVP.. 12 time Allstar. Why he is underrated?
MVPs don't mean much in an all-time list and neither do all-star appearances. Moses usually gets overrated because of the ridiculous numbers he put up during his days. People ignore the fatal flaws he had in his game though such as being a black hole on offense, not a very good defender, and not to mention he was somewhat of a stat-padder on the boards.

[NumberSix]

Top 3. Here we go.

[d.bball.guy]

Rings matter... but so does MVPs...

A players greatness cant be discredited for a team accomplishment... for not being blessed with the best supporting cast.... a player can control how HE plays, he cant control how the other guys play.... sick and tired of you people trying to act like championships are the act of one man....

Ranking All-Time greats you include EVERYTHING.... yes Lebron has no rings, thats why he is not in TOP 10... but with what he has now is worthy of 15-20 compared to what those other guys have... sorry
It does matter but seeing Shaq, Kobe only having 1 MVP, LeBron hasn't moved a spot. Championships are not one man acts, its about how great players lead their team to glory. Lebron hasn't done that yet.

[Alamo]

Cool... 2 questions tho...

Why do you have Barkley over Nowitzki, Garnett and better yet... Lebron...?

Why do you have Dwyane Wade over Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek and better yet Rick Barry?

Dwyane Wade had one of the greatest finals performances of all time.

[Pushxx]

LeBron prolly makes 15 if he wins a ring this year.

[zizozain]

his performance in the Finals cost him 15-20 spots drop
so he is somewhere between 30-40 all time..

[pauk]

Dwyane Wade had one of the greatest finals performances of all time.

Alright.. but take a look at this...

Rick Barry:

1 x Champion
1 x FMVP
Rookie of the Year
1 x All-Star MVP
1 x ABA Champion
5 x All-NBA 1st team
8 x NBA All-Star
4 x ABA All-Star
1 x All-Rookie 1st team
Hall of Fame

25.729 points (24.8 PPG)
6.863 rebounds (6.7 RPG)
4.952 assists (4.9 APG)




Thats.... better than Wades resume.... and speaking of Finals, Barry was amazing in his Finals MVP campaign aswell.... i love Wade, but kindof hard to deny Rick Barry

[Kurosawa0]

I have LeBron at #13, but he's going to have to win a ring or two before threatening any of the top 12.

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem
11. Moses
12. Oscar
13. LeBron
14. West
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Isiah
18. Dirk
19. Barkley
20. KG/Malone (KG might have the edge for me)

[Bandito]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

There is no way he is better than Nowitzki, no way. Maybe when he iwill be at the same point of his career ( I mean like in the future) would be better than Dirk but now no. He probably going to be better bar injuries though...if he win a championship and does not choke like last year then there is a case for Lebron being better than Dirk but now no. Dirk was a great player who change the way power forwards (along with Garnett) plays nowadays and he had that legendary run last year in the playoffs.

Also from the Lebron's accomplishments you posted, aside from the awesome stats he has posted in his career all those acomplishments like all stars an0d the mvp are meaningless because those are based on biased people or popular vote. THe only thing I will say has some meaning is the Gold Medal and the Bronze medal he won when he was in the Olympic team.

[ballerz]

He didn't. You don't move up on the all time list for just having a good season

[NumberSix]

Also from the Lebron's accomplishments you posted, aside from the awesome stats he has posted in his career all those acomplishments like all stars an0d the mvp are meaningless because those are based on biased people or popular vote. THe only thing I will say has some meaning is the Gold Medal and the Bronze medal he won when he was in the Olympic team.
That bronze medal is the biggest stain on every single member of that team's career. Absolutely unacceptable.

[knicksman]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

ahead of dirk? Put lebron in the west and he wouldnt have the 50+ win seasons that dirk had. And he would be a first round exit worse than melo if hes there. Sorry dirk>>>>>>>>>>lebron just like dirk>>>>>>>>>>robertson.

[maybeshewill13]

might as well recognize him for having the tastiest balls you ph@ggot

I know I'm coming in late but..

:yaohappy:

[D-Wade316]

Why do you have Dwyane Wade over Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek and better yet Rick Barry?
My god you're a fukking idiot. :facepalm

[Big#50]

The Lebron hate is strong. Dude just needs to produce in the finals to jump over Kobe in the 10th spot.
KAJ
Duncan/Shaq
MJ
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
Russell
Kobe
You guys are idiots if you can't see how ****ing good Lebron is. You guys need to watch another sport.

[Quizno]

The Lebron hate is strong. Dude just needs to produce in the finals to jump over Kobe in the 10th spot.
KAJ
Duncan/Shaq
MJ
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
Russell
Kobe
You guys are idiots if you can't see how ****ing good Lebron is. You guys need to watch another sport.
watch the finals :roll: :roll:

[RazorBaLade]

Yeah I think hes about as high as anyone can realistically be without a ring. 15-18.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The Lebron hate is strong. Dude just needs to produce in the finals to jump over Kobe in the 10th spot.
KAJ
Duncan/Shaq
MJ
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
Russell
Kobe
You guys are idiots if you can't see how ****ing good Lebron is. You guys need to watch another sport.
Did you miss the '11 Finals?
He was the 5th leading scorer in that series. A bench player averaged more ppg than him
He also averaged 2.2 4th quarter ppg in the first 5 games. And in the clutch scored 0 points on 0-7 shooting.

[RazorBaLade]

The Lebron hate is strong. Dude just needs to produce in the finals to jump over Kobe in the 10th spot.
KAJ
Duncan/Shaq
MJ
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
Russell
Kobe
You guys are idiots if you can't see how ****ing good Lebron is. You guys need to watch another sport.

Thats like saying Kobe just needs to score 120 points in a playoff game to be better than jordan, no problem! He just needs ot score a couple points!

He's failed a billion times already in the postseason. He needs MULTIPLE titles and good performances to get into the top 10 of careers, but as far as a player, maybe if he can average above 18 pts in the finals he can be near kobe. "He JUST needs to produce in the finals"... He has had his chances and HAS NOT. last year was pathetic. Its not a given that people have it in them to play out of their mind when the pressure is on.

[RazorBaLade]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

I like it. To stay on the subject at hand tho, if anything, I think Dirk should be 16, bron 17, barkley 18

[Big#50]

watch the finals :roll: :roll:
He just needs to produce in the finals. He had one bad finals. I will not judge him on the 07 finals. He was 22. Duncan in the middle, playing his best defense since 03, with Bowen leading him straight to Tim, shit was a disaster from the first minute.
Many players have had bad finals. Kobe has two bad finals. Played decent in two more, and played good in one. Bird played under his usual level in one final. MJ shot awful against the Sonics. Magic had about two finals that were pretty bad. He even cost his team one.

[knightfall88]

no achievements whatsoever in the playoffs..

[RazorBaLade]

He just needs to produce in the finals. He had one bad finals. I will not judge him on the 07 finals. He was 22. Duncan in the middle, playing his best defense since 03, with Bowen leading him straight to Tim, shit was a disaster from the first minute.
Many players have had bad finals. Kobe has two bad finals. Played decent in two more, and played good in one. Bird played under his usual level in one final. MJ shot awful against the Sonics. Magic had about two finals that were pretty bad. He even cost his team one.

The problem is you have no reason to believe he can do that. It's not a fantasy world where you can assume a player with the heavy favorites goes and sucks THAT bad and is the 5th best player on the floor against a weaker team completely blows it like that. In his prime. In his ****ing prime.

Until he actually DOES do it, theres no reason to act like its going to happen at any minute. You don't fail that hard in that good of a situation for no reason. What happens if he fails again this year? Oh well, he only had 2 bad finals! He just needs to produce in the next one! If he does do well this year, then fine, we can rate him then. But right now, he's a joke when it comes to the finals or the clutch in the last few years.

[Big#50]

Thats like saying Kobe just needs to score 120 points in a playoff game to be better than jordan, no problem! He just needs ot score a couple points!

He's failed a billion times already in the postseason. He needs MULTIPLE titles and good performances to get into the top 10 of careers, but as far as a player, maybe if he can average above 18 pts in the finals he can be near kobe. "He JUST needs to produce in the finals"... He has had his chances and HAS NOT. last year was pathetic. Its not a given that people have it in them to play out of their mind when the pressure is on.
If Kobe can have that 6/24 game and still be labeled as a great playoff performer, I have no problem calling Lebron a great one as well. When he finally wins a ring it'll cancel out all the bad.

[nathanjizzle]

id put lebron somewhere between 25-35

[Big#50]

The problem is you have no reason to believe he can do that. It's not a fantasy world where you can assume a player with the heavy favorites goes and sucks THAT bad and is the 5th best player on the floor against a weaker team completely blows it like that. In his prime. In his ****ing prime.

Until he actually DOES do it, theres no reason to act like its going to happen at any minute. You don't fail that hard in that good of a situation for no reason. What happens if he fails again this year? Oh well, he only had 2 bad finals! He just needs to produce in the next one! If he does do well this year, then fine, we can rate him then. But right now, he's a joke when it comes to the finals or the clutch in the last few years.
If he chokes again, I will have him in the same position I have him now. If he never wins, then obviously he stays put. If he wins one, I have to have him in my top ten. He is that good.

[RazorBaLade]

If Kobe can have that 6/24 game and still be labeled as a great playoff performer, I have no problem calling Lebron a great one as well. When he finally wins a ring it'll cancel out all the bad.

He scored 10 points in the 4th quarter. We're not saying no one is allowed bad games or series, but at least have SOME redeeming qualities? Kobe's WORST game in the series (and he had a rather good series before it, I believe people were saying he needs to be considered for the finals MVP if the lakers lost in 5 I think it was), he STILL had 10 pts in the 4th and 15 rebounds and a memorable assist.

Bron averaged 18 pts a game in the finals. Not scored 18 pts once, AVERAGED. For an entire finals series. And he scored 2 pts in the 4th, not once, but AVERAGED for an entire finals series.

Do you see the difference? You think one game of 6/24 with 10 pts in the 4th and 15 rebounds is the same as 18 pts AVERAGE and 2 pts in 4th AVERAGE? Its not even close. ****ing jason terry is better than that.

[Fudge]

20-25.

Top 15 if he wins a ring this year.

[RazorBaLade]

If he chokes again, I will have him in the same position I have him now. If he never wins, then obviously he stays put. If he wins one, I have to have him in my top ten. He is that good.

So if he never wins and he stays a top 15 or top 20 player all time. wherever it is you have him now, for a finals series would he be the 15th or 20th player you take to win a championship finals series in a draft? I think that needs to be considered when ranking a player but thats just me.

[maybeshewill13]

I'd say about 20. 14-15 if he wins a ring this year. 9-10 if he wins another. top 5 if he gets a third and has a couple finals MVP.

[d21221hk]

For those of you who think he has no place around #15... take a look at Lebrons current accomplishments compared to a guy who usually is around #15 on the all-time list.....


LEBRON JAMES NBA CAREER

3 x MVP


stopped reading there. even if he is going to win it, saying shit like that is exactly why ppl don't take you seriously. not 5 not 6 not 7...

[Big#50]

So if he never wins and he stays a top 15 or top 20 player all time. wherever it is you have him now, for a finals series would he be the 15th or 20th player you take to win a championship finals series in a draft? I think that needs to be considered when ranking a player but thats just me.
If I ranked my top ten by that criteria, my top ten would be so different. I have always liked that criteria. No way he would be in my top ten using that. He has choked before, but I still believe he will come through in the finals. Not this season, though. Spurs are winning it all this year.

[Meticode]

Ridiculous!

[BuGzBuNNy]

Lebron is for sure top 20 if he wins his third MVP.
This sentence says everything thats wrong with how people rank players..why should it matter? The season is over and the MVP trophy won't change how he played.

[Big#50]

This sentence says everything thats wrong with how people rank players..why should it matter? The season is over and the MVP trophy won't change how he played.
Accolades.

[Celtics4ever]

LeBron is Top 40 all time at best. At the end of his career, I dont see him getting higher than top 30. Empty stats and stat padding wont make you great. The guy isn't a winner. And probably the biggest choker in NBA History.

[Kurosawa0]

LeBron is Top 40 all time at best. At the end of his career, I dont see him getting higher than top 30. Empty stats and stat padding wont make you great. The guy isn't a winner.

I love threads like these. It really pulls out shitty posters like this one. Nice for the ignore list.

[Mr. Jabbar]

He didn't.

[Celtics4ever]

I love threads like these. It really pulls out all the undercover LeBron dlck riders like myself. Nice for the ignore list.

Thanks for the heads up. I will put you on the ignore list now.

[Simple Jack]

Top 20 right now. A ring, with a dominant performance would shoot him up real fast though.

3x MVP amongst all the other accolades + stats are no joke. Rings will just give people the excuse they are looking for to admit the obvious.

[Heavincent]

Lebron: The hypothetical GOAT. So many ifs.

[NumberSix]

He's already a top 3 talent.

As for accomplishments, I'd say like top 30. If he get's his 3rd MVP, top 20.

[RazorBaLade]

If I ranked my top ten by that criteria, my top ten would be so different. I have always liked that criteria. No way he would be in my top ten using that. He has choked before, but I still believe he will come through in the finals. Not this season, though. Spurs are winning it all this year.

ah. fair. i like that criteria too. One game, one moment, who do I take.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He's already a top 3 talent.

As for accomplishments, I'd say like top 30. If he get's his 3rd MVP, top 20.
so an award voted in by the media determines 10 spots?

[Lebron23]

Top 10.b if he wins his 3rd NBA MVP, and first finals MVP.

[NumberSix]

so an award voted in by the media determines 10 spots?
Well, if he gets it, it's because he really is the MVP. Not just some consolation award.

3 legitimately earned MVP's in 4 years is a pretty big deal. Throw a chip in there and he's easily top 15.

BTW, just because I say "top 30" doesn't mean he's at exactly 30. Maybe he's at like 26 and then goes to 19. That's not 10 spots. That going from top 30 to top 20.

[LakersReign]

Same tired hot garbage we've been hearing over and over again for almost a decade now.:sleeping

Lebronytes make little or no sense in their logic, if you can call it that. Which is exactly why nobody takes them seriously. Lebron is the only player in NBA history who always seems to be "graded on a curve". Despite his fans prattling on and on and on and on and on, about how supposedly great he's supposed to be. He bailed on doing the dirty work to become a GOAT, and his delusional fans still want to try and put him in the conversation anyway. Anybody who has him on an AT list higher than 15-20, is either delusional, or doesn't know a damn thing about basketball.:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Top 10.b if he wins his 3rd NBA MVP, and first finals MVP.
:oldlol:
Who does he bump off?

Jordan - 6 rings, 6 finals mvps
Magic - 5 rings, 3 finals mvps
Kareem - 6 rings, 2 finals mvps
Russell - 11 rings
Bird - 3 rings, 2 finals mvps
Shaq - 4 rings, 3 finals mvps
Kobe - 5 rings, 2 finals mps
Duncan - 4 rings, 3 finals mvps
Hakeem - 2 rings, 2 finals mvps
Wilt - 2 rings

[NumberSix]

Same tired hot garbage we've been hearing over and over again for almost a decade now.:sleeping

Lebronytes make little or no sense in their logic, if you can call it that. Which is exactly why nobody takes them seriously. Lebron is the only player in NBA history who always seems to be "graded on a curve". Despite his fans prattling on and on and on and on and on, about how supposedly great he's supposed to be. He bailed on doing the dirty work to become a GOAT, and his delusional fans still want to try and put him in the conversation anyway. Anybody who has him on an AT list higher than 15-20, is either delusional, or doesn't know a damn thing about basketball.:facepalm
Do you think anybody reads your posts? :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

Same tired hot garbage we've been hearing over and over again for almost a decade now.:sleeping

Lebronytes make little or no sense in their logic, if you can call it that. Which is exactly why nobody takes them seriously. Lebron is the only player in NBA history who always seems to be "graded on a curve". Despite his fans prattling on and on and on and on and on, about how supposedly great he's supposed to be. He bailed on doing the dirty work to become a GOAT, and his delusional fans still want to try and put him in the conversation anyway. Anybody who has him on an AT list higher than 15-20, is either delusional, or doesn't know a damn thing about basketball.:facepalm


Why do Kobetards have a low basketball IQ? How old are you?

[Lebron23]

Do you think anybody reads your posts? :confusedshrug:


He's the dumbest poster in this forum.

[LakersReign]

Why do Kobetards have a low basketball IQ? How old are you?

Just gotta love it how lebron23/durant35/gobbjr/deathvainx, who says exactly the same tired MADE UP crap over and over and over and over, HOPING people dumber than him believes him. Cuz he's way too stupid to realize that NOBODY on here takes him or anything he says seriously. TRIES to talk about IQ's. Exactly how many years have you been predicting Lebron to win FMVP now?:roll:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Barkley showed up when it mattered most. He was the go-to guy.
He did not have to defer to someone like Wade.

Lebron will not be top 20 until he makes a statement when it matters most.

[gengiskhan]

Barkley showed up when it mattered most. He was the go-to guy.
He did not have to defer to someone like Wade.

Lebron will not be top 20 until he makes a statement when it matters most.


Kobe is holding off to 12th GOAT position.

LBJ is right there in Top 15 GOATs currently. An FMVP with 1 ring will earn that 12th Kobe GOAT Spot.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why do Kobetards have a low basketball IQ? How old are you?
:oldlol:
Lebrontards have the lowest bball IQ

"lebron will be top 10 if he gets first finals mvp"
:facepalm

[LakersReign]

:oldlol:
Lebrontards have the lowest bball IQ

"lebron will be top 10 if he gets first finals mvp"
:facepalm


Better yet: "Lebron will be a GOAT on somebody else's team.":lol

[coin24]

Lebron stans:facepalm :facepalm

This guy is the joke of the league:lol
Bookmark for the annual lebron choke job..

[AlexanderRight]

Dwyane Wade had one of the greatest finals performances of all time.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Mugshot_of_Tim_Donaghy.jpg

[NumberSix]

Better yet: "Lebron will be a GOAT on somebody else's team.":lol
http://stupidknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/spaghetti.jpg

Did you figure it out? :confusedshrug:

[ganja0710]

http://i.imgur.com/eHAiC.jpg

[LakersReign]

Lebron stans:facepalm :facepalm

This guy is the joke of the league:lol
Bookmark for the annual lebron choke job..


No bruh, you got it all wrong. He's supposed to be greater than ALL the greats combined.......which is exactly why his fans have been making tired excuses for him for almost a decade now:roll:

[Tenchi Ryu]

http://i.imgur.com/eHAiC.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[coin24]

No bruh, you got it all wrong. He's supposed to be greater than ALL the greats combined.......which is exactly why his fans have been making tired excuses for him for almost a decade now:roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

Lakersreign needs to take a bath. You smell like a rotten V@gina.

[Lebron23]

Kobe is holding off to 12th GOAT position.

LBJ is right there in Top 15 GOATs currently. An FMVP with 1 ring will earn that 12th Kobe GOAT Spot.


Hi Bruceblitz.

[LakersReign]

Lakersreign needs to take a bath. You smell like a rotten V@gina.


Same tired hot garbage we've been hearing over and over again for almost a decade now.:sleeping

Lebronytes make little or no sense in their logic, if you can call it that. Which is exactly why nobody takes them seriously. Lebron is the only player in NBA history who always seems to be "graded on a curve". Despite his fans prattling on and on and on and on and on, about how supposedly great he's supposed to be. He bailed on doing the dirty work to become a GOAT, and his delusional fans still want to try and put him in the conversation anyway. Anybody who has him on an AT list higher than 15-20, is either delusional, or doesn't know a damn thing about basketball.:facepalm

The truth hurt so bad all he can do now, is throw one of his famous temper tantrums:sleeping

[Lebron23]

The truth hurt so bad all he can do now, is throw one of his famous temper tantrums:sleeping


http://www.evernewrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Fruit-Shake-Recipe.jpg

[Whoah10115]

Yo, why do you want everyone to hate your favorite player?

[Lebron23]

http://stupidknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/spaghetti.jpg

Did you figure it out? :confusedshrug:

Delicious

http://bdflower.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/KFC-2pcs-Chicken-Combo.jpg

[chairman]

Delicious

http://bdflower.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/KFC-2pcs-Chicken-Combo.jpg
So hungry right now

[Lebron23]

So hungry right now


Me too.

[chairman]

Me too.
Ate 12 hours ago, plus gym 3 hours ago for 2 hours basketball taking two 2 stimerex pills. Hungry as Freek :( 2:00 AM nothing healthy open

[All Net]

Top 20 if he starts winning titles won't be long till he is in the top 10.

[PTB Fan]

Top 20 if he wins his 3rd MVP award. No doubt about it. If not, then he's still in the top 25. With few championships, he'll easily move forward on the list.

[theaussieguy]

hes about top 150 at this point id say

[Chrono90]

Nobody considered the point of him joining Wade and Bosh diminishing his credit?

Jordan never joined Malone. Bird never joined Magic. Kobe never joined Tmac(prime.)

To me, it's just not the same when you team up with two other franchise players in their prime.

[pauk]

Nobody considered the point of him joining Wade and Bosh diminishing his credit?

Jordan never joined Malone. Bird never joined Magic. Kobe never joined Tmac(prime.)

To me, it's just not the same when you team up with two other franchise players in their prime.

Why so?

Jordan never had to go somewhere, he got everything handed to him eventually.... he was going thru the same ringless path as Lebron his first 6-7 years or so with scrubs around him, but he got Pippen, then Rodman, Kukoc and so on, next thing you know he had a stacked team, one of the (if not the greatest) greatest teams of all time.... Lebron never had that blessing, he had to venture out and create something which Jordan had most of his life, which he NEVER was gona have in Cleveland... he didnt want to retire ringless...

Magic/Bird/Kobe never had to go somewhere, they got everything handed to them on a silverplate from the get go soon as they got in the league staying in the biggest winning franchises the NBA has ever seen... hell, Kobe even threatened to leave multiple times the times his supporting cast was not the best............. Lebron never had that blessing, he had to venture out and create something which Magic/Bird/Kobe had most of their life without any effort whatsoever, which he NEVER was gona have in Cleveland... he didnt want to retire ringless...

Wilt Chamberlain joined up with Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich...

Garnett/Ray Allen joined up with Paul Pierce/Rondo...

Oscar Robertson joined up with Kareem Abdul Jabbar (he got his 1st and only ring that way)

Shaq had Penny, skipped him to team up with Kobe, skipped him to team up with Wade, skipped him to ringchase even further with Garnett/RayAllen/Pierce/Rondo....

Barkley joined up with Olajuwon-Drexler...

and so on and so on and so on........

a famous quote by Magic Johnson: "I didnt want to come to the NBA if i was not gona play for Kareem & Lakers"....

point is......... players "team up" one way or the other... sooner or later... question is... Are you willing to gamble and stay with your lousy team for your entire career in hope of eventually recieving the supporting cast needed to win a championship or stop wasting your prime on nothing and go somewhere you can seriously contend for championships?

[CakeorDeath]

Jordan never had to go somewhere, he got everything handed to him eventually.... he was going thru the same ringless path as Lebron his first 6-7 years or so with scrubs around him, but he got Pippen, then Rodman, Kukoc and so on, next thing you know he had a stacked team, one of the (if not the greatest) greatest teams of all time.... Lebron never had that blessing, he had to venture out and create something which Jordan had most of his life, which he NEVER was gona have in Cleveland

Jordan never had two other superstars playing beside him. He had a star in Pippen (but not a superstar by any means) and the perfect role players to suit him. The fact that his teams were always good is not the issue; the issue that was brought up is that none of the icons of the 90s (Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Payton, etc.) intentionally collaborated with one another and hatched a plan to play on the same team. They all wanted to beat each other. LeBron takes criticism because a lot of people see that as taking the easy way out. The difference between Jordan and LeBron? Jordan stuck it out after his first 6-7 years of failure; LeBron bolted.


hell, Kobe even threatened to leave multiple times the times his supporting cast was not the best

But he never actually did it. You could argue that Kobe was just threatening to leave in order to get the front office to do something, and it worked. LeBron could have done the same thing in Cleveland but instead he made everyone feel like they had a chance of getting him so he could have a few months of everyone kissing his ass to boost his ego, when in reality he had already determined what he was going to do a few years earlier.


which he NEVER was gona have in Cleveland

How does anyone know? Building a great team by drafting and trading for the right combination of players takes time. All great players have been on teams where the pieces just didn't fit right. Looks at the span between Kobe's rings. Look at the difference between the Mavs last year and the Mavs this year. LeBron demonstrated that he was A. not willing to be patient and B. more willing to colude with other superstars than to work with his own front office


he didnt want to retire ringless...

And he still would if he retired today. No one is faulting the logic of LeBron moving up on the list if he wins some rings. But he hasn't yet despite his evil machinations.


Wilt Chamberlain joined up with Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich...

He was traded; he didn't sign with the Lakers as a free agent. Big difference.


Garnett/Ray Allen joined up with Paul Pierce/Rondo...

Both were traded. And Rondo was still pretty much an unknown commodity at that point. And Garnett had flogged his guts out for years as a franchise player in a small market to try to win it all before going to Boston past his prime.


Oscar Robertson joined up with Kareem Abdul Jabbar (he got his 1st and only ring that way)

Traded.


Shaq had Penny, skipped him to team up with Kobe

Kobe was a rookie; no one had any idea he'd turn out as good as he did. And they didn't just start winning rings instantly. They got killed by Utah in the playoffs two years in a row. They didn't win their first ring until Phil Jackson showed up, which Shaq had no idea would/could happen when he went to L.A. as a free agent in '96.


skipped him to team up with Wade

Traded.


skipped him to ringchase even further with Garnett/RayAllen/Pierce/Rondo....

When he signed with Boston he was a 38 year old role player with a laundry list of nagging injuries. Hardly any team wanted him by that point. And as long as you are listing every great bunch that he "teamed up with" I find it interesting that you fail to mention his stint in Cleveland, where he "teamed up" with none other than LeBron!


Barkley joined up with Olajuwon-Drexler...

Traded. At 33, injury-plagued, and past his prime.


players "team up" one way or the other... sooner or later

For players whose talent defines their generation, it is usually later, when they are past their primes. Not when they are just entering it. The major knock on LeBron is that he doesn't have that win or die competitiveness and drive that players like Jordan and Kobe had/have. Forming the superfriends is seen as evidence of that. So is his performance in the finals last year.



Are you willing to gamble and stay with your lousy team for your entire career in hope of eventually recieving the supporting cast needed to win a championship or stop wasting your prime on nothing and go somewhere you can seriously contend for championships?

Most fans respect the former and not the latter. See Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Payton, Garnett, Nash and a host of others as examples.

[Lebron23]

LeBron will have more Finals MVP than Malone and Stockton at the end of this season. And if you are watching Miami Heat games you old creep. LBJ is the undisputed Heat's best player this season. The Heat are 14-1 without Wade this year.

Do you have any problem with that Methusala?

[Doctor Rivers]

LeBron will have more Finals MVP than Malone and Stockton at the end of this season. And if you are watching Miami Heat games you old creep. LBJ is the undisputed Heat's best player this season. The Heat are 14-1 without Wade this year.

Lol

[ILLsmak]

I think the NBA uses MVPs to hype a player. I don't think LeBron will win it this year although I think it was cool that he won 2 already.

He's a great player, but it is true that something is wrong if he keeps losing with this team. He wanted to go where he had a chance to win, but what he did was throw all of his excuses out the window.

-Smak

[zay_24]

LOl @ a ring bumpin him up 10-20 spots:roll:

You haters are worse than his fans with dumbass logic like that.

Lebron did choke in the last finals, but when you keep it reality, there isn't a whole lot of players in NBA history better than him. Scust @ Dirk being better than lebron:roll:

[Glide2keva]

This is his no excuse year.

[Kurosawa0]

I think the NBA uses MVPs to hype a player. I don't think LeBron will win it this year although I think it was cool that he won 2 already.

Even Ric Bucher is voting for him. LeBron's winning the MVP.

[JGXEN]

LeBron will have more Finals MVP than Malone and Stockton at the end of this season. And if you are watching Miami Heat games you old creep. LBJ is the undisputed Heat's best player this season. The Heat are 14-1 without Wade this year.

Do you have any problem with that Methusala?
:oldlol: I hope you'd just die in a ****ing fire, filthy pinoy ****.

[pauk]

Jordan never had two other superstars playing beside him.

Neither did Lebron... Bosh sure is not a superstar... and Wade has a nifty name to him, but it is the result/productions which count... and those productions were 22-5-5 this year and injury proneness...

Neither did Lebron have a DEEP team with productive roleplayers/bench/6th men with the best coach ever, not even today... unlike the untouchable phenom mr Perfect mr God mr Jordan...



He had a star in Pippen (but not a superstar by any means) and the perfect role players to suit him.

Pippen was a superstar, sorry... he is the most versatile defender to ever play this game and one of the most versatile offensive players ever.... a perfect, unselfish, point-forward complementary player to a balldominant perimeter shooting guard... who without mr Jordan took that same Bulls team to about equal amount of success... excluding a championship ofcourse...

Pippen probably wouldn't have won a championship without Jordan, but the same can be said if Jordan never had Pippen.....



The fact that his teams were always good is not the issue; the issue that was brought up is that none of the icons of the 90s (Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Payton, etc.) intentionally collaborated with one another and hatched a plan to play on the same team. They all wanted to beat each other.

1. The fact that Malone had Stockton and an extremly deep team with a fantastic and Lebron had Boobie Gibson and mr Potatohead makes that comparation laughable... they were never in Lebrons situation...

2. The players Lebron teamed up with he had beaten all the time... there was never rivalry...

3. The players Lebron teamed up with are NOT at the level of Malone, Jordan..... considering their productions it is more equivalent to Magic (Lebron) teaming up with a Drexler (Wade) and Brad Daugherty (Chris Bosh)..............


LeBron takes criticism because a lot of people see that as taking the easy way out.

Lebron takes that criticism because people (like obviously you) dont know what the **** they are talking about due to lack of NBA history knowledge... or pure ignorance due to the blinded Lebron hatred..


The difference between Jordan and LeBron? Jordan stuck it out after his first 6-7 years of failure; LeBron bolted.

Nope... the difference is that Jordan got Phil Jackson, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, Kerr, Harper, Armstrong, Grant and so on and so on....

and Lebron got.... Mo Williams...

No... Jordan was not in the same situation, if he was i can guarantee Jordan as a free-agent would at least have some serious thoughts about doing a wise basketball decision..... or stay ringless his entire career...




But he never actually did it. You could argue that Kobe was just threatening to leave in order to get the front office to do something, and it worked.

LeBron could have done the same thing in Cleveland but instead he made everyone feel like they had a chance of getting him so he could have a few months of everyone kissing his ass to boost his ego, when in reality he had already determined what he was going to do a few years earlier.

LeBron demonstrated that he was A. not willing to be patient and B. more willing to colude with other superstars than to work with his own front office



Unlike the primadonna Kobe who whined/threatened and had all his teammates hate him and threw out even Shaq for his individual needs.... Lebron never complained or whined, he was patient for 7 years... with only one message every single year, which is a major hint, "I want to win a championship"....

He gave them 7 years... it was enough... 7 years of his prime wasted with a dictator GM Dan Gilbert just using him to become rich and give him just barelly enough to get into the playoffs..... Lebron didnt want the money, didnt want the MVPs, he wants championships.... more than everybody in the NBA.... and he was willing to do anything for it... When he felt how "serious" Dan Gilbert was about Lebrons goals and that cities goals he had enough................ and Dan Gilbert sure showed his true nature after Lebron left.....

He became a free-agent and made a decision 1 or 2:

1. Stay ringless your entire career in Cleveland
2. Compete for a championship

He chose #2....



How does anyone know? Building a great team by drafting and trading for the right combination of players takes time. All great players have been on teams where the pieces just didn't fit right.

True and some players have been on winning franchises with winning GMs with sole purpose of winning championships.... and sooner or later they always prevail (Lakers/Celtics)


Looks at the span between Kobe's rings.

Yep, to bad he was such a primadonna... if he didnt chase of Shaq im sure they would have won even more rings....



He was traded; he didn't sign with the Lakers as a free agent. Big difference.

Is it now? Wilt just randomly landed with Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich.... just randomly shiped of because the other team didnt want him... to the best team in the NBA... ofcourse.... delusion is not good for you... but i understand your agenda... :rolleyes:




Both were traded. And Rondo was still pretty much an unknown commodity at that point. And Garnett had flogged his guts out for years as a franchise player in a small market to try to win it all before going to Boston past his prime.

and Lebron didnt huh?? :rolleyes:



Kobe was a rookie; no one had any idea he'd turn out as good as he did. And they didn't just start winning rings instantly. They got killed by Utah in the playoffs two years in a row. They didn't win their first ring until Phil Jackson showed up, which Shaq had no idea would/could happen when he went to L.A. as a free agent in '96.

They had an idea, Jerry West sure had a perfectly good idea... like the genius he always was....


When he signed with Boston he was a 38 year old role player with a laundry list of nagging injuries. Hardly any team wanted him by that point. And as long as you are listing every great bunch that he "teamed up with" I find it interesting that you fail to mention his stint in Cleveland, where he "teamed up" with none other than LeBron!

Right, Lebron aswell! Good ol Shaq.... "I came here to win a ring for the king!" :rolleyes:




Traded. At 33, injury-plagued, and past his prime.

So you are saying thats why he teamed up with them? :rolleyes:



Not when they are just entering it. The major knock on LeBron is that he doesn't have that win or die competitiveness and drive that players like Jordan and Kobe had/have.

Lebron had that win or die competitiveness for 7 years......... with no result..... no matter how godlike he played..... same as Jordan.... but then go back to my factual point again, Jordan recieved the supporting cast.... LEBRON D-I-D-N-T..........

"Win or die competitiveness" *in dark cool

[Lebron23]

:oldlol: I hope you'd just die in a ****ing fire, filthy pinoy ****.


I am immortal. My name is Connor Macleod.

[gengiskhan]

Top 20 if he wins his 3rd MVP award. No doubt about it. If not, then he's still in the top 25. With few championships, he'll easily move forward on the list.

A message for full retards on this forum.

If a player has 3 season MVPs, they are guaraunteed Top 15 GOAT status.

If a player has won season MVPs with 2 different franchises, It guanrantees them Top 15 GOAT status. Only Kareem is in this League. Not even MJ or Magic.

If a player has won 3 Season MVPs in 4 seasons span, he is guaranteed Top 15 GOATs. This is 2nd to Larry Bird who did it 3 in 3 yrs. Not even MJ or Magic.

If a player has 3 Season MVPs with 2 different franchises within 4 years span. He is guaranteed Top 15 GOATs status. NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT YET INCLUDING JORDAN, MAGIC, BIRD.

Thats sheer utter dominance of an era. Case closed.

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron is already top 20. You have to put him above Garnett, Malone, etc. If he wins his 3rd MVP and a championship + FMVP I think you seriously have to consider putting him in the 11-13 range (above Jerry West).

[Fudge]

:oldlol: I hope you'd just die in a ****ing fire, filthy pinoy ****.
:lebronamazed:

[DMAVS41]

A message for full retards on this forum.

If a player has 3 season MVPs, they are guaraunteed Top 15 GOAT status.

If a player has won season MVPs with 2 different franchises, It guanrantees them Top 15 GOAT status. Only Kareem is in this League. Not even MJ or Magic.

If a player has won 3 Season MVPs in 4 seasons span, he is guaranteed Top 15 GOATs. This is 2nd to Larry Bird who did it 3 in 3 yrs. Not even MJ or Magic.

If a player has 3 Season MVPs with 2 different franchises within 4 years span. He is guaranteed Top 15 GOATs status. NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT YET INCLUDING JORDAN, MAGIC, BIRD.

Thats sheer utter dominance of an era. Case closed.


All true...unless:

If a player chokes as bad as Lebron in the finals and is yet to win a title....they can't be top 15 all time only after 9 years in the league.

Sorry....

[Whoah10115]

Lebron isn't better than Prime KG yet but he's supposed to be ahead of him on the all-time list?



I don't give a shit if you wanna argue anything. He's not top 20 and it's not arguable yet.




Period. Again, stop making people hate your favorite player.

[ItsTwisted]

As much as you guys can sit here and argue, it all comes down to personal opinion. Things that matter to one person when ranking their top 10, do not matter to someone else.

In 10 years, Jordan wont be first on many lists like he is today, because future generations have not seen him play, and wont have their coaches or parents to explain to them who he was. Even today, you have many idiots that claim Jordan doesnt deserve the number 1 spot, and thats because they either havent seen him play or are not educated enough about him. In the future it will be about Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Rose and etc., the players of today.

Even now if you asked many high school basketball players who their top 10 is, half of the guys that we have on our lists are no where to be found on theirs. Guys like Magic and Kareem are rated at 9 or 10, and Kobe and Lebron are 1-5. I have had many experiences with this, and have lost patience trying to dispute their claims, but thats the reality of today and whats to come as well.

With that being said, Lebron is an exceptional player, but until he proves he can come through in the clutch and wins a ring, he is nowhere near my top 10. Right now I would rank him at around 18-20, and with a ring, I could move him to 10-15, but I think this is his year.

Top 10 for me would be:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Kobe Bryant

from 11-20 in order: Hakeem Olajuwon, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Moses Malone, Julies Erving, John Havlicek, Bob Pettit, Dirk Nowitzki, Karl Malone, Lebron James.

[Owl]

Bird having 0 points in four straight 4th quarters in 1981 and consistently NOT being able to defend anybody his entire life?

Magic earning the name Tragic-Johnson for choking away?

Oh me Oh my.... lets all just act like Lebron was the only one not being able to be godlike in a Finals....
I would be interested in the source for that Bird stat. Is it on the internets anywhere?

ahead of dirk? Put lebron in the west and he wouldnt have the 50+ win seasons that dirk had. And he would be a first round exit worse than melo if hes there. Sorry dirk>>>>>>>>>>lebron just like dirk>>>>>>>>>>robertson.
Wow, you really like Dirk don't you.

[gengiskhan]

As much as you guys can sit here and argue, it all comes down to personal opinion. Things that matter to one person when ranking their top 10, do not matter to someone else.

In 10 years, Jordan wont be first on many lists like he is today, because future generations have not seen him play, and wont have their coaches or parents to explain to them who he was. Even today, you have many idiots that claim Jordan doesnt deserve the number 1 spot, and thats because they either havent seen him play or are not educated enough about him. In the future it will be about Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Rose and etc., the players of today.

Even now if you asked many high school basketball players who their top 10 is, half of the guys that we have on our lists are no where to be found on theirs. Guys like Magic and Kareem are rated at 9 or 10, and Kobe and Lebron are 1-5. I have had many experiences with this, and have lost patience trying to dispute their claims, but thats the reality of today and whats to come as well.

With that being said, Lebron is an exceptional player, but until he proves he can come through in the clutch and wins a ring, he is nowhere near my top 10. Right now I would rank him at around 18-20, and with a ring, I could move him to 10-15, but I think this is his year.

Top 10 for me would be:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Kobe Bryant

from 11-20 in order: Hakeem Olajuwon, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Moses Malone, Julies Erving, John Havlicek, Bob Pettit, Dirk Nowitzki, Karl Malone, Lebron James.

That list is clearly BS for many reasons:

Hakeem not being in Top 10.

Hakeem not being in Top 8 over Shaq.

In case if you did not know:

hakeem had 1994 MVP + FMVP + DPOY all in same year. its the most successful year by any nba player ever including michael jordans'.

Hakeem also beat Shaq in 1995 finals so Hakeem above shaq easily. :facepalm

Hakeem both finals had Marquee Center match ups that Hakeem clearly won.

Hakeem back-2-back DPOY titles & Shaq has none. :facepalm

give credit where its due. & stop inserting Kobe at Top 10 GOATs when he clearly dont belong over Hakeem.

Hakeem is clearly over Duncan, Shaq, Kobe easily. Its not even an arguement.

[gilalizard]

Did you ask this question after LeBron's historic disappearance in last season's finals?

[Owl]

This is the problem with ranking present (and especially still prime) players. Some people will extrapolate specific parts of the career as patterns and some will focus on others.

I personally don't think LeBron is anti-clutch or anything, though I don't think he's a great last play option because hes so much more effective slashing than shooting. I'm also worried about Miami not being the best team in the league now, the issues about fit and complementing one another, and Wade's age and injuries that maybe he won't get the rings.
But lets just see how it play out.

[pauk]

*BUMP*

Now that he has his 3rd MVP and 1 more all-nba 1st team, 1 more all-defensive 1st team, 1 more nba all-star selection, 4 more POTMs etc. how far did he climb up in your list? Is he there with Karl Malone yet?

[pauk]

To me he climbed a small bit...

10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James <----
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

[Mr. Jabbar]

he didn't

[dunksby]

To me he climbed a small bit...

10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James <----
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson
You got 9 players over Kobe? :facepalm

[rawimpact]

To me he climbed a small bit...

10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James <----
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

I think kevin garnett is underrated on your list... but it is subjective and it's still not a bad list.

[pauk]

You got 9 players over Kobe? :facepalm

Yes?

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon

I think only with Hakeem you could probably debate/argue who had a better career, wouldnt mind Kobe being over him... those others guys i think Kobe has no business being over... they accomplished more, i can prove you that, very easily...

[pauk]

I think kevin garnett is underrated on your list... but it is subjective and it's still not a bad list.

Yea, i find that from #12 to #20 is the hardest thing to try and rank...

[KDTrey5]

lebron is the man but KD gonna be taking the mvp nex year

[RaininTwos]

Did you ask this question after LeBron's historic disappearance in last season's finals?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/Milk-Duds-Box-Small.jpg/300px-Milk-Duds-Box-Small.jpg


That doesn't even make sense.

[pauk]

lebron is the man but KD gonna be taking the mvp nex year

I hope he gets one, he deserves it... i like his game...

[RazorBaLade]

Yes?

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon

I think only with Hakeem you could probably debate/argue who had a better career, wouldnt mind Kobe being over him... those others guys i think Kobe has no business being over... they accomplished more, i can prove you that, very easily...

Shaq didn't "accomplish" more, he was just a better peak player.. but for 15 years you'd rather have kobe because shaq only gives you 8, and you need someone in the 4th to play with shaq cuz he cant make fts. Its a flimsy subject with shaq IMO. Duncan I can see your point.

[rodman91]

*BUMP*

Now that he has his 3rd MVP and 1 more all-nba 1st team, 1 more all-defensive 1st team, 1 more nba all-star selection, 4 more POTMs etc. how far did he climb up in your list? Is he there with Karl Malone yet?

Not yet, not before FMVP. But if he gets FMVP this year, he'll deserve to be somewhere near to top 10 already without a doubt.

3 MVPs, having one of the GOAT stats of all time with a FMVP is some legacy.

[28renyoy]

I hope he gets one, he deserves it... i like his game...

It's not a matter of him getting one, it's a matter of him becoming the best player in the league for the next decade which is currently the transition at hand.

LeBron also didn't win the MVP until he was 24, Durant will be 24 next season.

Of course Durant is very likely to win a ring this year

[RazorBaLade]

It's not a matter of him getting one, it's a matter of him becoming the best player in the league for the next decade which is currently the transition at hand.

LeBron also didn't win the MVP until he was 24, Durant will be 24 next season.

Of course Durant is very likely to lose in the 2nd round

agreed maybe in a few yrs tho

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

the MVP award is meaningful.
So I have to give Lebron credit.
I would have to say he is a top-25 player, all time, right now.
If he didn't choke so horribly in two Finals, then he would def be higher.

[rodman91]

Shaq didn't "accomplish" more, he was just a better peak player.. but for 15 years you'd rather have kobe because shaq only gives you 8, and you need someone in the 4th to play with shaq cuz he cant make fts. Its a flimsy subject with shaq IMO. Duncan I can see your point.

Shaq was the franchise player in Kobe's 3 of 5 championships.He has more FMVPs,maybe best finals performances ever, better career stats and he is known as most dominant player in history in his prime.

Also they had similar resume as well so far. Shaq was one of the top players in the league for between 1993-2006.Kobe has been one of the top players between 2000-2012.

[G-Funk]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson


Put Kobe at 7-9 and u have a decent list! ALso KG>Dirk and Barkley

[RaininTwos]

Put Kobe at 7-9 and u have a decent list! ALso KG>Dirk and Barkley
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Over Shaq/Duncan and Hakeem?

[rodman91]

Please feel free and present your top 20 lists if you dont mind guys... curious to see :D At least your #10 to #20 ranking....

i have it like this right now:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Kevin Garnett
20. David Robinson

You have pretty good list compared to many posters here actually. Some of them arguable but nothing seems blasphemous for me.

[truhooper]

top 10 already :bowdown:

[UtahJazzFan88]

as high as LeBron's 4th QTR finals PPG.