Boxing thread: Is Pacquiao/Mayweather really not going to happen?

[BlueandGold]

After the Cotto fight yesterday mayweather said:


He (Mayweather) did, however, insist that boxing's dream bout between himself and Manny Pacquiao was doomed to go down in history as perhaps the sport's greatest "what if."
"The Pacquiao fight is not going to happen," said Mayweather, who cited the Filipino superstar's financial demands, disputes over the style of random drug testing and clashes with Pacquiao's promoter Bob Arum as the reasons for the impasse. "I don't have a boss. I called him direct. I offered him $40 million straight. I told him I would wire him $20 million within 48 hours. But it is not going to happen. There is too much standing in the way. He keeps changing it."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--floyd-mayweather-eschewed-a-strip-club-at-3-a-m-to-begin-training-for-miguel-cotto-bout.html;_ylt=AnrvsccGkDRw7g7uV26tYPo5nYcB


From what I've heard so far (and it's been years) Mayweather doesn't want to do a 50-50 split, even though it's entirely within the realm of reason that both fighters would generate near equal fanbases as both are extremely popular fighters. I would say Pacquiao even more so given his international/universal appeal and also just the fact Pac-man brings something different to a sport normally dominated by african-americans and latinos.

There's also the doping allegations, in which mayweather is currently being sued by the pacquiao camp for libel/slander. I've never really seen this card pulled by any other big-name/supposed hall of fame fighter. I don't even see how this is an issue. Pac-man said he had no problems being tested the day before, of, or after the fight. It's a little weird that Mayweather specifically asked for an IV drug test when Pac-man has already publicly said that sticking a little in his arm wasn't kosher (ie: it makes him uncomfortable) yet regardless of that fact still would take a needle test all the way up to the fight. This, to me, is obviously just nit-picking/cherry picking at details just for the sake of argument.

And his third response.. that he has too much conflict with Bob Arum.. I mean seriously get over it. This would literally be the fight of the century. The only other fight that I can even imagine with as much money on the table was Holyfield/Tyson, and they were dying to fight each other.

So yea, conclusion: Pretty boy Mayweather scared of getting cut up in the ring with Pacquiao

[Abd El-Krim]

It will definitely happen, but only after both fighters are well past their primes and unable to make a ppv event without the other. At that point they'll probably fight 3 times, each will suck.

[sunsfan1357]

Get over Bob Arum? How can you simply get over the person who is handling all negotiations for the other side and has shown an unwillingness to deal with people outside of his promotion?

[DonDadda59]

Floyd: "I'm 80-20 in favor of Retirement (http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-ponders-retirement-admits-options-low--52597) :rolleyes:

[BlueandGold]

Get over Bob Arum? How can you simply get over the person who is handling all negotiations for the other side and has shown an unwillingness to deal with people outside of his promotion?

It just seems like he's making excuses.. first the unwillingness to take a 50-50 split, saying he'll pay 40million "out of his own pocket", yet the fight alone will generate upwards of 150million dollars not to mention the insane ad contracts they will be able to garner with a super-fight such as this. It just makes no sense because for someone who's name is Money Mayweather he is leaving a massive amount of cash on the table just to duck someone he's scared of. I just don't see how such a supposed great competitor would not want to fight someone that many people think is better than him and that he's frightened of.

[The_Yearning]

40 million straight... that is good enough. That would be the most Pac has made in his entire lifetime.

[raiderfan19]

I'm a huge pbf fan but the 40 mil straight isn't enough as crazy as that sounds. Floyd is clearly a bigger draw but the draw for that fight would be about both of them and PAC would be insane to take any deal without part of the backend. If I was negotiating I'd go for a 52/48 split for mayweather but short of it being something like 100 mil, no straight guarantee is enough to turn down a percentage of what could easily be a 3 mil ppv sales pot

[L.Kizzle]

I'm a huge pbf fan but the 40 mil straight isn't enough as crazy as that sounds. Floyd is clearly a bigger draw but the draw for that fight would be about both of them and PAC would be insane to take any deal without part of the backend. If I was negotiating I'd go for a 52/48 split for mayweather but short of it being something like 100 mil, no straight guarantee is enough to turn down a percentage of what could easily be a 3 mil ppv sales pot
52/48 is damn near 50/50. I think 55/45 would be more like it.

[Simple Jack]

When Floyd retires boxing will slowly die out. Michael Buffer retiring will end it for good.

In all seriousness though, this seems to be the last big super-fight that can potentially happen for quite some time. What other great draws are up-and-coming in boxing that could create this type of hype, or anywhere near it, in the near future? It's almost past the point where I even want to watch them fight.

[L.Kizzle]

When Floyd retires boxing will slowly die out. Michael Buffer retiring will end it for good.

In all seriousness though, this seems to be the last big super-fight that can potentially happen for quite some time. What other great draws are up-and-coming in boxing that could create this type of hype, or anywhere near it, in the near future? It's almost past the point where I even want to watch them fight.
Maybe just maybe,both fighters know what they have to do. You said boxing is dieing. What would have happened is they fought in 2008? What next ... If Floyd lost, who would want to see him fight JMM, or Sugar or Cotto. If Manny lost, who want to see him fight JMM again, Mosley, Margarito, freaking Joshua Clotty, haha?

The longer they hold off, the more they can squeeze some other fights in until they wipe the welterweight division clean. Not sure if any will fight Sergio Martinez.

Next on both list is Bradley (Manny already) and I can see him taking on the winner of Ortiz/Berto next month.

Mayweather might go for the winner of Peterson/Khan II later this month.

[Simple Jack]

Maybe just maybe,both fighters know what they have to do. You said boxing is dieing. What would have happened is they fought in 2008? What next ... If Floyd lost, who would want to see him fight JMM, or Sugar or Cotto. If Manny lost, who want to see him fight JMM again, Mosley, Margarito, freaking Joshua Clotty, haha?

The longer they hold off, the more they can squeeze some other fights in until they wipe the welterweight division clean. Not sure if any will fight Sergio Martinez.

Next on both list is Bradley (Manny already) and I can see him taking on the winner of Ortiz/Berto next month.

Mayweather might go for the winner of Peterson/Khan II later this month.

If they fought in 2008, things would be a lot different. The point, or my opinion on this rather, stays the same though. I think these two are the last BIG draws we will see for quite some time. I've been a big boxing fan since I was younger and will continue to watch it for the rest of my life but I don't see anyone for the foreseeable future bringing in huge draws like these two can.

How many fights is the average fan REALLY looking forward to? How many names that could draw potentially huge numbers are really left? I don't know if it's MMA or what, but it seems as though the popularity of boxing is slowly declining; at least here in America.

[SCREWstonRockets]

When Floyd retires boxing will slowly die out. Michael Buffer retiring will end it for good.

In all seriousness though, this seems to be the last big super-fight that can potentially happen for quite some time. What other great draws are up-and-coming in boxing that could create this type of hype, or anywhere near it, in the near future? It's almost past the point where I even want to watch them fight.
Here we go again. People said the same thing when Tyson and De La Hoya retired. Guess what, boxing is still here. And it will continue to be here long after Manny and Floyd.

[Scholar]

When Floyd retires boxing will slowly die out. Michael Buffer retiring will end it for good.

In all seriousness though, this seems to be the last big super-fight that can potentially happen for quite some time. What other great draws are up-and-coming in boxing that could create this type of hype, or anywhere near it, in the near future? It's almost past the point where I even want to watch them fight.

:biggums: Boxing will slowly die???

I know some older folks who claimed that boxing was supposed to die out when Muhammad Ali retired...

When George Foreman retired...

When Mike Tyson retired...

Now who else needs to retire for it to officially die? :rolleyes:

[Crown&Coke]

the writing was on the wall from when the second contract negotiations fell apart. When everyone was like "a deal is almost reached" then one guy wants something else, the other guy counters with another crazy demand, and on and on. and it falls on everyone involved, not one guy or one camp, both are messing it up

we won't see this fight in the present form of these fighters

both guys spend way too much money way to fast. once they both hit 40 and are flat broke, we might see a shell of a fight.

don't hold your breath on a Floyd-Manny fight anytime soon

[Simple Jack]

:biggums: Boxing will slowly die???

I know some older folks who claimed that boxing was supposed to die out when Muhammad Ali retired...

When George Foreman retired...

When Mike Tyson retired...

Now who else needs to retire for it to officially die? :rolleyes:

You're forgetting there wasn't another combat sport, at the height of its popularity, going on at the same time.

[Crown&Coke]

boxing wont die, but it will never reach the heights that it had in the 70's through 90's, when boxing was pretty much must see TV. When Friday Night Fights was a fixture in most households, when PPV fights attention spread through word of mouth and not posters or commercials, when heavyweights ruled the kingdom

it will stay what it is now, basically a niche sport. people tune in when there is a lot of hype for certain fights. I mean the masses that is. Boxing fans will still watch, Im sure of that, but the casual viewer wont, and the caual viewer is what they are targeting for the sport to thrive as it once did

[dunksby]

Boxing is too corrupted to die anyway. Boxing is not gonna go while there are still hungry kids who got nothing to look forward to other than becoming a superstar athlete and get out of the shithole they live in or as long as at least Vegas exists.

[rezznor]

boxing wont die, but it will never reach the heights that it had in the 70's through 90's, when boxing was pretty much must see TV. When Friday Night Fights was a fixture in most households, when PPV fights attention spread through word of mouth and not posters or commercials, when heavyweights ruled the kingdom

it will stay what it is now, basically a niche sport. people tune in when there is a lot of hype for certain fights. I mean the masses that is. Boxing fans will still watch, Im sure of that, but the casual viewer wont, and the caual viewer is what they are targeting for the sport to thrive as it once did
as long as the best fighters keep acting like primadonnas and avoid each other, boxing will continue to lose it's fanbase.

[heavensdevil]

40 million straight... that is good enough. That would be the most Pac has made in his entire lifetime

:facepalm

[JustinJDW]

The fight will most likely never happen, at least not while Mayweather remains undefeated and Pac-Man is in his current state. The thing is, Floyd Mayweather is easily without a a doubt head above heels the biggest draw in boxing. He has brought a plethora of causal fans to the sport. Dude is undefeated, and makes more money for more people in the sport than anyone.

He shouldn't be splitting revenue down the middle with anyone.

[wpdougie2180]

The fight will most likely never happen, at least not while Mayweather remains undefeated and Pac-Man is in his current state. The thing is, Floyd Mayweather is easily without a a doubt head above heels the biggest draw in boxing. He has brought a plethora of causal fans to the sport. Dude is undefeated, and makes more money for more people in the sport than anyone.

He shouldn't be splitting revenue down the middle with anyone.

Why do people keep saying this as if saying it will make it true????:wtf:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/01/pacquiao-tops-mayweather-in-ppv-buys-for-last-three-fights/

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/boxingmma/manny-pacquiao-earns-more-ppv-buys-floyd-mayweather-again

So again why doesn't he deserve a 50/50 split, he also said he'd do a 45/45 split with the winner getting the other 10%.

[AirGauge23]

WWhat other great draws are up-and-coming in boxing that could create this type of hype, or anywhere near it, in the near future?

Alvarez vs Chavez Jr.

But like Floyd/Pac, it might never happen. Too many interests in the way.

[Dwade305]

Alvarez vs Chavez Jr.

But like Floyd/Pac, it might never happen. Too many interests in the way.
Chavez Jr is too big already for 154, and I do not see Canelo moving up either anytime shortly. 147 to 154 is where all the $ is for right now in Boxing.
Chavez Jr and Pavlik wil be a monster fight though, especially since they both do most of their work inside. Jr vs Martinez will be too boring, MArtinez will outbox the f*ck out of him from the outside like he did to Pavlik for majority of the fight.

[Lebron23]

Who's the fighter of the Decade?

Who ranks higher in the all time lists?

Who has beaten a bunch of hall of famers?

Who's the reigning pound for pound King?

It's Manny Pacquiao. Pacquiao deserves a 50/50 split.

[raiderfan19]

Who's the fighter of the Decade?

Who ranks higher in the all time lists?

Who has beaten a bunch of hall of famers?

Who's the reigning pound for pound King?

It's Manny Pacquiao. Pacquiao deserves a 50/50 split.
You do realize Floyd pretty clearly ranks higher on the all time lists right?

[Lebron23]

You do realize Floyd pretty clearly ranks higher on the all time lists right?


Pacquiao still has the better resume. 2009 Miguel Cotto >>> 2012 Miguel Cotto.

[Lebron23]

The earliest date would be some time in 2016 when both of them are 38/39 years old.

No one will watch that fight. By 2014 Canelo Alvarez will be the pound for pound King.

[DonDadda59]

You do realize Floyd pretty clearly ranks higher on the all time lists right?

On whose list? :oldlol:

The vast majority of boxing scribes/historians have Manny, rightfully so, higher on the all time lists. Pacquiao has done several things that no other boxer in History has done, Floyd can't say the same. Plus he's outperformed Floyd against 4 out of 5 common opponents so far. All Floyd has is his claim to being undefeated, a feat matched by the great Sven Ottke and modern legends like Canelo Alvarez and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

[rezznor]

Scoop Malinowski: Floyd Mayweather Is Still Terrified Of Manny Pacquiao
May 7th, 2012
By Scoop Malinowski
Like a non-stop output of punches over 12 rounds by a determined warrior, the excuses by Floyd Mayweather to avoid a showdown with Manny Pacquiao just never cease.
Despite scoring an impressive performance to defeat Miguel Cotto on Saturday night in Las Vegas, Mayweather is still adamantly opposed to the idea of stepping into the ring with Manny Pacquiao. “The Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is not going to happen,” insisted Mayweather. “It’s not my fault, it’s Bob Arum’s fault.”

Photo: Chris Farina/Top Rank
The only reason, of course, that it won’t happen is because Mayweather fully realizes and understands it’s a fight he will lose. Because his style of defending and shoulder rolling is designed for right-handed fighters who do not have height and reach advantages. World class lefties like Demarcus Corley and Zab Judah were able to stun and floor Mayweather, just imagine what the world’s best and most spectacular fighter Manny Pacquiao would be able to do to Mayweather from his lefty stance.

Floyd knows and he knows full well. That’s why he must seek protection from Pacquiao by using walls of excuses to blockade himself from the complicated dangers that Pacquiao presents. So deep and impregnable are Mayweather’s walls of excuses that it indeed looks like the fight will never happen. The first wall of defense is the baseless steroid accusations. The second wall is blaming all the fault on Bob Arum. The third wall of protection is a refusal to accept a 50-50 split. The fourth wall of defense is the “I don’t need Manny, he needs me” facade. The fifth wall of defense is the “Manny’s really not that good, he lost five times and he lost to Marquez who I beat easily.” Mayweather also has a sixth wall of protection – “I might (fake) retire again.”

Six reinforced walls of excuses and blockades by one man – Floyd Mayweather – to duck and dodge the biggest event in boxing history. That is a Guiness record that will never be broken or equaled. (Well, let’s hope none of Al Haymon’s future fighters ever come close to challenging this mark.)
Mayweather knows the pressure is so strong and powerful for him to face Pacquiao, that one excuse is not nearly enough, he needs to use six different excuses to keep his security and unbeaten record. Wait a minute, there’s actually seven. Health concerns, self preservation, and fear of ending up like Ali are Floyd’s seventh excuse to duck Manny, as he used them in the Bob Costas interview and also the roundtable with reporters last week.

But if you really think about it, the fear for his health is a lame excuse by Mayweather. While Pacquiao is certainly a brutally devastating fighter, he hasn’t, thank God, killed or severely hurt anyone. Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto and others all lived to tell and did not suffer permanent damage.
Also, Floyd should feel secure in himself because, as he tells us he’s the greatest fighter of all time and his defenses are surely superior to Oscar, Hatton or Cotto’s.

The mind of a fighter can be strange sometimes. A lot of ring observers believed Michael Spinks could defeat Mike Tyson before their epic heavyweight clash, even Muhammad Ali predicted a win for Spinks, on the record. Michael Spinks, despite the confidence of “The Greatest” behind him, was obviously completely psyched out by Tyson long before he emerged from his Atlantic City Convention Center dressing room. Similarly, Floyd Mayweather, is totally psyched out by Manny Pacquiao and he must fully know what his fate would be if he were to ever trade punches with the Filippino Destroyer.
Like Archie Moore once said about boxing Cassius Clay, “It’s the worst feeling in the world when you are in a fight you know you can’t win.”

Another strange aspect of the Pacquiao-Mayweather saga is how the American media just sits back and permits Mayweather’s cowardice to go on, which is so contrary to the integrity of what the sport should be about: The best versus the best, honor, bravery, courage, overcoming self-doubt and adversity. People like Iole, Rafael, Kellerman, Merchant, Dahlberg, Smith, Atlas, etc. need to be more vocal and put more pressure on Mayweather to just shut up with the excuses and just fight this guy Pacquiao. What the heck do you think Howard Cosell would be saying if he were around today? He’d be telling it like it is.

The United States of America is supposed to be the “home of the brave”, yet Mayweather is shaming us all with his constant duckery and cowardly excuse-making. And he is shaming our great sport of boxing too. Ali didn’t try to duck Frazier. James Toney didn’t try to duck Roy Jones. Hearns didn’t try to duck Leonard. Liston didn’t try to dodge Clay. These were milestone fights in boxing history. And Mayweather vs. Pacquiao will be the biggest of them all. The American media must get more actively involved and force this fight to happen, it’s what the fans around the world are demanding. Quit protecting Mayweather and the American establishment. The media must pressure Floyd to fight Pacquiao, or retire.

It’s going to be interesting to see how the PPV numbers for “Ring Kings” will do next week. Even if they are strong, it’s hard to imagine the public wanting to pay up again to see Mayweather against another Golden Boy handpicked set up like Malignaggi, Guerrero, Alexander or Morales, even if they bring in Justin Beiber again.
Ken Hershman and his team at HBO are fully aware that Mayweather’s reluctance and lack of self confidence are the reasons the biggest event in boxing history is not happening. Perhaps Hershman needs to play hardball and be more forceful to the Mayweather team – and less obliging and cooperative to Al Haymon’s “low risk” business tactics. It’s gotten to the point that it’s time for Hershman to start doling out ultimatums, such as, “Floyd we love you and appreciate your fine work, but you’re next fight is with Manny. It’s Manny or the highway Floyd, take it or leave it.”

Pacquiao vs. Mayweather is perfectly primed right now (if Pacquiao defeats Tim Bradley on June 9). Mayweather vs. Cotto was an exciting lead-up event, like a thrilling AFC Championship game won by an artful fourth quarter TD pass. “Ring Kings” certainly boosted the credibility of boxing and also it’s visibility in the culture. But there’s no reason to stop there. The future is even brighter. The Super Bowl of boxing will be even more exciting and more competitive than Mayweather vs. Cotto was. The upside of how Pacquiao vs. Mayweather can explode boxing into a new golden era is immeasureable.

Pacquiao vs. Mayweather simply must be made next. No if’s, ands or buts about it.
dunno who this scoop guy is, but here's some flamebait

[magic chiongson]

does he have comments enabled for that article? :D

[rezznor]

does he have comments enabled for that article? :D
oh yeah, most of the comments agree with him, here's the link

http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/scoop-malinowski-floyd-mayweather-is-still-terrified-of-manny-pacquiao/

[magic chiongson]

oh yeah, most of the comments agree with him, here's the link

http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/scoop-malinowski-floyd-mayweather-is-still-terrified-of-manny-pacquiao/

anti-pacquiao articles would generate more comments though..there's an army of pactards waiting to rage-post on those types of articles :D

[rezznor]

[QUOTE]THE UGLY
After the bout, Mayweather solidified his reputation as a walking contradiction. During his post-fight interview with HBO

[Simple Jack]

On whose list? :oldlol:

The vast majority of boxing scribes/historians have Manny, rightfully so, higher on the all time lists. Pacquiao has done several things that no other boxer in History has done, Floyd can't say the same. Plus he's outperformed Floyd against 4 out of 5 common opponents so far. All Floyd has is his claim to being undefeated, a feat matched by the great Sven Ottke and modern legends like Canelo Alvarez and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

Context helps. Undefeated Hatton is different than fighting him after; come to think of it, a few of Pac's recent wins have come after Floyd beats them as well.

The Marques fight is more telling if anything considering the similarity in styles.

[SCREWstonRockets]

You're forgetting there wasn't another combat sport, at the height of its popularity, going on at the same time.

This is such dumb logic. You act like MMA and boxing cant co exsist. Yes they're both combat sports, but they are still different sports. Baseball, football, soccer and basketball all play with some type of ball but that doesn't stop people from being fans of both basketball and football.

Boxing has been a staple in America for as long as any other sport. And people really believe if two guys leave the sport, it will die out. HA HA HA :facepalm

[Godzuki]

This is such dumb logic. You act like MMA and boxing cant co exsist. Yes they're both combat sports, but they are still different sports. Baseball, football, soccer and basketball all play with some type of ball but that doesn't stop people from being fans of both basketball and football.

Boxing has been a staple in America for as long as any other sport. And people really believe if two guys leave the sport, it will die out. HA HA HA :facepalm


it won't die, it'll just keep losing support/viewership just like it has from the 80's on...

and the main reason its stayed relevant for this long is because there is no other mainstream fighting sport to compete with it. and yes, fight audiences will jump off boxing and into MMA if they're fed up with it, or there is a lack of interesting fights to watch. problem is MMA still isn't anywhere mainstream altho their fights on Fox have at least put their foot in the door.

[Godzuki]

anti-pacquiao articles would generate more comments though..there's an army of pactards waiting to rage-post on those types of articles :D


a lot of 'pac-tards' don't even seem to be pac fans. they're just fight fans that want to see them fight. if anything there are quite a few floyd-tards tho, that label anyone blaming Floyd for ducking as some 'pac-tard', always trying to justify Floyd's yappin and duckin, while exaggerating Pac steroid claims. its just so stupid but it reminds me of kobe homers that no matter what will make excuses for him.

and Arum along with every other boxing promoter ever may suck, but floyd jr in charge is far worse for the sport. he's going to kill what lil integrity boxing has left. on top of his legacy. nobody gives a shit about a undefeated record when you're going to always be remembered as ducking other fighters, steroid excuse or not. bet.

[iamgine]

Next big thing will come. It always does.

SRR - Ali - SRL - Tyson - De La Hoya - Mayweather/Pacquiao

[donald_trump]

Pacquiao still has the better resume. 2009 Miguel Cotto >>> 2012 Miguel Cotto.

lol get real.

[donald_trump]

On whose list? :oldlol:

The vast majority of boxing scribes/historians have Manny, rightfully so, higher on the all time lists. Pacquiao has done several things that no other boxer in History has done, Floyd can't say the same. Plus he's outperformed Floyd against 4 out of 5 common opponents so far. All Floyd has is his claim to being undefeated, a feat matched by the great Sven Ottke and modern legends like Canelo Alvarez and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

thats because floyd is hated by many of those historians. floyd is clearly a more technically gifted fighter, undefeated, and has moved up and down to fight against boxers at their natural weights more often than not.

[iamgine]

thats because floyd is hated by many of those historians. floyd is clearly a more technically gifted fighter, undefeated, and has moved up and down to fight against boxers at their natural weights more often than not.
Being undefeated doesn't really count for much in boxing contrary to what Floyd would like us believe.

[ZenMaster]

The setup of pro-boxing is horrible! When you can't get the best in your sport to go at each other your sport has a problem.

It's painful to watch really, people should be talking about the sport part, but instead most of discussions are on their money split. Yuk!

[donald_trump]

Being undefeated doesn't really count for much in boxing contrary to what Floyd would like us believe.

yes it does when you've faced the competition he has. he's always ducking someone according to the public, then you look through his resume and he's fought all the best fighters at the time at their best weight.

[iamgine]

yes it does when you've faced the competition he has. he's always ducking someone according to the public, then you look through his resume and he's fought all the best fighters at the time at their best weight.
That's certainly not true. The best fighter at the time was definitely not Shane Mosley.

[donald_trump]

That's certainly not true. The best fighter at the time was definitely not Shane Mosley.

that was a fighter everyone had said that floyd was ducking. then he finally steps up to fight him, and then everyone complains again. :oldlol:

[iamgine]

that was a fighter everyone had said that floyd was ducking. then he finally steps up to fight him, and then everyone complains again. :oldlol:
Well he's way past expiration date. Trevor Berbick also beat Muhammad Ali the same way.

[donald_trump]

Well he's way past expiration date. Trevor Berbick also beat Muhammad Ali the same way.

yet manny fought him after and there was no such backlash. :oldlol:

there is always excuses against floyd. but none for manny.

[iamgine]

yet manny fought him after and there was no such backlash. :oldlol:

there is always excuses against floyd. but none for manny.
Same goes for Manny.

[raiderfan19]

Being undefeated doesn't really count for much in boxing contrary to what Floyd would like us believe.
It actually does count for something. Like everything else, it's subject to context and it is only part of an evaluation but it does matter.

Mannys legacy is a combination of beating berrera twice, morales twice(though losing once) and jmm twice(though he arguably lost all 3 fights) and moving up and beating shot or weight drained fighters other than clottey(though I think the weight drained excuse is overused for cotto IMO)

Floyds legacy is that he has really only had one fight you could even begin to argue he lost while also fighting very high level competition. He's beaten Mosley, cotto, jmm, corrales, gatti, Jose Luis Castillo, zab Judah and really only been in any real danger of losing once(the first Castillo fight)

Contrast that with PAC who has been in real danger of losing 6 fights and it does matter. Floyd has no one who matches morales or berrera but other than that his competition is actually better than pacs competition and its just really hard to see an argument for PAC as better.

For the record id take Roy jones jr over either and he's neither undefeated nor did he face as good competition as the others. He's the most talented of my lifetime though

[Lebron23]

Manny Pacquiao won the first Marquez fight. F*cked the Dumb @$$ judge who scored the fight 10-7 in that round. It should 10-6 because Pacquiao Knocked JMM 3x times.
JMM won the Second Fight
Manny won the 3rd fight

These fights are available on youtube.

2-1 againts Marquez.

[raiderfan19]

Same goes for Manny.
You do realize that manny hasn't fought a credible fight at the full ww limit right? Everyone has been shot(and we knew it when he took the fight)

[iamgine]

It actually does count for something. Like everything else, it's subject to context and it is only part of an evaluation but it does matter.

Mannys legacy is a combination of beating berrera twice, morales twice(though losing once) and jmm twice(though he arguably lost all 3 fights) and moving up and beating shot or weight drained fighters other than clottey(though I think the weight drained excuse is overused for cotto IMO)

Floyds legacy is that he has really only had one fight you could even begin to argue he lost while also fighting very high level competition. He's beaten Mosley, cotto, jmm, corrales, gatti, Jose Luis Castillo, zab Judah and really only been in any real danger of losing once(the first Castillo fight)

Contrast that with PAC who has been in real danger of losing 6 fights and it does matter. Floyd has no one who matches morales or berrera but other than that his competition is actually better than pacs competition and its just really hard to see an argument for PAC as better.

For the record id take Roy jones jr over either and he's neither undefeated nor did he face as good competition as the others. He's the most talented of my lifetime though
People need to stop using old Mosley's big name as if it's an accomplishment to beat him at that point.

[Lebron23]

People need to stop using old Mosley's big name as if it's an accomplishment to beat him at that point.


This

Canelo and Sergio Mora also defeated a past his prime Mosley.

[raiderfan19]

This

Canelo and Sergio Mora also defeated a past his prime Mosley.
The difference is Floyd beat Mosley coming off a great performance. Was he shot? Honestly yes he was but there were a ton of people who said Floyd wouldn't take that fight(including resident Floyd hater don dadda) by the same token manny beat an equally shot de la Hoya, a more shot Mosley and margarito and those fights plus clottey are the only fights he's fought at ww or above and people act like he's been great at/use his ability to move up to ww/154 as proof of his greatness.

[iamgine]

The difference is Floyd beat Mosley coming off a great performance. Was he shot? Honestly yes he was but there were a ton of people who said Floyd wouldn't take that fight(including resident Floyd hater don dadda) by the same token manny beat an equally shot de la Hoya, a more shot Mosley and margarito and those fights plus clottey are the only fights he's fought at ww or above and people act like he's been great at/use his ability to move up to ww/154 as proof of his greatness.
So Manny and Floyd's the same then

Fight each other already

[raiderfan19]

So Manny and Floyd's the same then

Fight each other already
:cheers: I have no issue with this sentiment. What I don't get is why they are acting like this is a one time only fight. There's almost no result that wouldn't result in a rematch being an attractive fight. The second probably wouldn't have quite the same butyrate but it would damn sure have still been the biggest fight either could have made(and I realize asking for 2 or 3 fights before getting a first is crazy) my only issue is with people who put the blame entirely on floyd(or PAC or even arum for that matter) just as I said I'd be ok with a 52/48 or even 50/50 split, this fight is about both of them. They are both equally important in making it and also equally deserving of blame for it not happening thus far and/or if it doesn't ever happen

[iamgine]

:cheers: I have no issue with this sentiment. What I don't get is why they are acting like this is a one time only fight. There's almost no result that wouldn't result in a rematch being an attractive fight. The second probably wouldn't have quite the same butyrate but it would damn sure have still been the biggest fight either could have made(and I realize asking for 2 or 3 fights before getting a first is crazy) my only issue is with people who put the blame entirely on floyd(or PAC or even arum for that matter) just as I said I'd be ok with a 52/48 or even 50/50 split, this fight is about both of them. They are both equally important in making it and also equally deserving of blame for it not happening thus far and/or if it doesn't ever happen
My issue is that I think Floyd has taken an unreasonable stance of offering $40 million like it's even close to fair. It seems they have iron out every other difference other than this one.

Also, I would like to see them negotiating publicly. Make it "HBO PPV: Pacquiao vs Mayweather Negotiation table".

[raiderfan19]

My issue is that I think Floyd has taken an unreasonable stance of offering $40 million like it's even close to fair. It seems they have iron out every other difference other than this one.

Also, I would like to see them negotiating publicly. Make it "HBO PPV: Pacquiao vs Mayweather Negotiation table".
The 40 mil offer is crap and I think he knows it. I put very little stock in what is said publicly though

[Undisputed]

I want Cotto/Mayweather II. Cotto has a great chance with some better conditioning and experience against him. Mayweather will not fight Pacquiao. It's sad, but we just have to move on.

[Godzuki]

It actually does count for something. Like everything else, it's subject to context and it is only part of an evaluation but it does matter.

Mannys legacy is a combination of beating berrera twice, morales twice(though losing once) and jmm twice(though he arguably lost all 3 fights) and moving up and beating shot or weight drained fighters other than clottey(though I think the weight drained excuse is overused for cotto IMO)

Floyds legacy is that he has really only had one fight you could even begin to argue he lost while also fighting very high level competition. He's beaten Mosley, cotto, jmm, corrales, gatti, Jose Luis Castillo, zab Judah and really only been in any real danger of losing once(the first Castillo fight)

Contrast that with PAC who has been in real danger of losing 6 fights and it does matter. Floyd has no one who matches morales or berrera but other than that his competition is actually better than pacs competition and its just really hard to see an argument for PAC as better.

For the record id take Roy jones jr over either and he's neither undefeated nor did he face as good competition as the others. He's the most talented of my lifetime though

floyd's legacy to the general public, and even many boxing fans, is he ducked to keep his undefeated record. how long have people been talking about Floyd vs Pac? who is the most vocal making all of the excuses? how many celebrities or boxing afficionado's have called Floyd out? ...which carries more weight than some avg fan, especially when you put all of that sentiment together it is how a legacy is built and remembered. sure there will be floyd-tards here and there backing him 20 years from now saying the same stuff as in this thread, but there will be far more remembering him for being a loudmouth ducker. you'd have to be blind and deaf not to see mass public sentiment against floyd.

noc's about mosley, even then its dumb how people try to cite that when the bottom line is fight fans have to push Floyd into fighthing these big matchups. there wouldn't even be the necessity for any controversy if he just did it, instead of danced around it constantly. its just such a dumb point for people to cite when he's supposed to fight them, not be congratulated because he finally did it after everyone gave him shit for it :rolleyes:

either way i very much doubt history is going to remember Floyd just as much at fault as Pac if they never fight, or if its way later when its past its prime. its way too easy to say Floyd is scared and protecting his undefeated record and theres a lot of his yappin to help make that case on record.

[raiderfan19]

Go read Sergio martinez's comments on the subject and tell me that everyone thinks its Floyd ducking. I didn't realize just how little manny had done at ww till I started looking yesterday. The only guys he's fought at the full ww limit are de la hoya(shot) clottey and margarito(shot) that's it. That's the whole list. The myth of manny the giant killer is just that, a carefully constructed myth.

[Godzuki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMmXW9LYg8&feature=related

[SCREWstonRockets]

So why does Pacquiao need steroids to beat shot fighters (Hatton,Cotto,margarito), old guys (Oscar, Shane) and A nobody like Clottey? That's what I don't get. People want to discredit every single one of Manny's fights, but at the same time, he needs steroids to beat these old, shot, and weight drained fighters? Which is it?

[donald_trump]

So why does Pacquiao need steroids to beat shot fighters (Hatton,Cotto,margarito), old guys (Oscar, Shane) and A nobody like Clottey? That's what I don't get. People want to discredit every single one of Manny's fights, but at the same time, he needs steroids to beat these old, shot, and weight drained fighters? Which is it?

your two arguments dont go hand in hand. it can be both.

[dunksby]

Boxing is still being regulated like an amateur sport :facepalm it's essentially the same as how we used to arrange a fight after school in some alley, difference is they can bring up excuses without losing rep, a luxury we did not have :lol

[RedBlackAttack]

I want Cotto/Mayweather II. Cotto has a great chance with some better conditioning and experience against him. Mayweather will not fight Pacquiao. It's sad, but we just have to move on.
The first fight was competitive enough to warrant a rematch, to my surprise. Reports surfaced afterward that Mayweather had problems with his hands and was ill. Not sure if there is any truth to it, but that was reported by Dan Rafael.

Hand issues, cold don't stop Floyd (http://espn.go.com/blog/dan-rafael/post/_/id/1114/hand-issues-cold-dont-stop-floyd)

I guess we could theoretically find out if there is any truth to this and, if so, whether or not it had an impact on the action in the ring if there were a rematch.

As for Pac-Floyd... As long as Arum is involved, it has no chance of happening. I think there is an outside chance that Manny drops Top Rank, though.

[BrooklynZoo]

40 million straight... that is good enough. That would be the most Pac has made in his entire lifetime.


what a dumb comment..

[BrooklynZoo]

yet manny fought him after and there was no such backlash. :oldlol:

there is always excuses against floyd. but none for manny.


everyone knows mosely was washed up for both of those fights:facepalm

[SCREWstonRockets]

your two arguments dont go hand in hand. it can be both.
Really? Please explain. Because accusing someone of steroids, means they have had super natural/unnatural performances. I just don't see anything that was so extraordinary against the guys he beat. Let's break it down, I'll start when he made his jump to lightweight (let me preface by saying many flomos have said these as well):

David Diaz - enough said
Oscar DLH - 100yrs old, weight drained
Hatton - Overrated, Floyd already KO him. Coke head
Cotto - Damaged fighter
Clottey - bum
Margarito - nothing without plaster
Mosley - Grandpa
Marquez - another questionable win

Ok, so what steroid performances do we have here :oldlol: ? All that roid talk started up around 2009, which is around before or after Cotto fight. So he must have juiced for the likes of the dangerous David Diaz, Ricky Hatton and De La Hoya and many others before. I mean, he couldn't even beat Marquez cleanly. Is he even juicing right?!?

They say he keeps knocking out people bigger than him. But the only guy from that list where the fight ended in a KO was the Hatton fight. His KO ratio was much higher before he moved up in weight. So Manny is apparently using steroids to beat these old, weight drained, and shot fighters that were hand picked/cherry picked to make Manny look good? Riiiiight

[Rooster]

yes it does when you've faced the competition he has. he's always ducking someone according to the public, then you look through his resume and he's fought all the best fighters at the time at their best weight.


:facepalm Floyd did beat some good fighters but he tend to avoid fighters that public wants to see him fight. He said it best when he said he will die in the ring but when ask about Pacquiao, he said he fears his health. He's very meticulous on choosing his opponent. There was time when fight fans were screaming for him to fight Cotto and Margarito when they were at their prime but chose to fight Baldomir and now it's the mainstream sports fans who wants him to fight Pacquiao and he made every excuses to avoid him from drug tests to purse split to Arum. I mean his excuses carries a merit if you're a nitwit and Floyd apologist but the reward far outweighs his excuses and it is beyond ridiculous. The end will justify the means.

[Rooster]

So why does Pacquiao need steroids to beat shot fighters (Hatton,Cotto,margarito), old guys (Oscar, Shane) and A nobody like Clottey? That's what I don't get. People want to discredit every single one of Manny's fights, but at the same time, he needs steroids to beat these old, shot, and weight drained fighters? Which is it?

Floyd apologists likes to used steroid used to justify Floyd drug test demand (coward move). If they discredit every Pacquiao fights then why do Floyd need a drug test in the first place. I mean Marquez fought him 3 times and every fight is close that you can make an argument on who wins and no blood test was implemented. Does it mean that Marquez has the pair that Floyd can not grow.:lol

[Rooster]

floyd's legacy to the general public, and even many boxing fans, is he ducked to keep his undefeated record. how long have people been talking about Floyd vs Pac? who is the most vocal making all of the excuses? how many celebrities or boxing afficionado's have called Floyd out? ...which carries more weight than some avg fan, especially when you put all of that sentiment together it is how a legacy is built and remembered. sure there will be floyd-tards here and there backing him 20 years from now saying the same stuff as in this thread, but there will be far more remembering him for being a loudmouth ducker. you'd have to be blind and deaf not to see mass public sentiment against floyd.

noc's about mosley, even then its dumb how people try to cite that when the bottom line is fight fans have to push Floyd into fighthing these big matchups. there wouldn't even be the necessity for any controversy if he just did it, instead of danced around it constantly. its just such a dumb point for people to cite
when he's supposed to fight them, not be congratulated because he finally did it after everyone gave him shit for it :

either way i very much doubt history is going to remember Floyd just as much at fault as Pac if they never fight, or if its way later when its past its prime. its way too easy to say Floyd is scared and protecting his undefeated record and theres a lot of his yappin to help make that case on record.


Undefeated record is only appealing to casual fight fans but not to the real boxing fans. It's who you beat and when you beat them.

[JustinJDW]

Why do people keep saying this as if saying it will make it true????:wtf:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/01/pacquiao-tops-mayweather-in-ppv-buys-for-last-three-fights/

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/boxingmma/manny-pacquiao-earns-more-ppv-buys-floyd-mayweather-again

So again why doesn't he deserve a 50/50 split, he also said he'd do a 45/45 split with the winner getting the other 10%.I'm not speaking about specific fights and direct PPV buys, I'm speaking in general. Floyd Mayweather has brought more fans, money and impact to the sport of boxing than Pacquiao has and most likely ever will. People who have never watched five minutes of boxing in their life, know who Floyd Mayweather is. Pacquiao's name, although it may be unfair, is becoming synonymous with Mayweather's name. Floyd has more at risk, and his yes to this fight means much more than Pac-Man's yes. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but its the truth.

Especially since Pac really lost his last fight.

[Godzuki]

:facepalm Floyd did beat some good fighters but he tend to avoid fighters that public wants to see him fight. He said it best when he said he will die in the ring but when ask about Pacquiao, he said he fears his health. He's very meticulous on choosing his opponent. There was time when fight fans were screaming for him to fight Cotto and Margarito when they were at their prime but chose to fight Baldomir and now it's the mainstream sports fans who wants him to fight Pacquiao and he made every excuses to avoid him from drug tests to purse split to Arum. I mean his excuses carries a merit if you're a nitwit and Floyd apologist but the reward far outweighs his excuses and it is beyond ridiculous. The end will justify the means.


refusing to fight him over accusations of steroids is one of the biggest problems i have with it. Are major league baseball players refusing to play against other players due to them thinking they're taking steroids? Are MMA fighters refusing to fight other MMA fighters because they think they're taking steroids? are ANY other boxers pulling this shit anywhere? why have all of Pac's opponents agreed to fight him and not be so worried about their careers against a supposed steroid user like Floyd is? its just so dumb how hypocritically that card is played...

i swear Floyd apologists are like kobe fans to me. they're so obsessed with him they think like retards.

[raiderfan19]

I think the test is just a negotiating ploy. Though I think the way manny reacted to it is a lil bit of a red flag

[SCREWstonRockets]

Fans keep saying if Arum is out of the picture, this fight happens. I use to believe that but not anymore. If Floyd doesn't want to do a 50/50 split or winner take majority split, it wont matter if Tex Rickard himself was promoting the fight, Manny is not taking less than 50. Manny isnt exactly the smartest man but even a retard wouldn't take a $40M guarantee over a 50/50 split of possibly the biggest PPV ever. And jf you would take that guarantee, I hope you never have to deal with any major business deals, for your own sake.

Another thing to think about; Floyd is already guaranteed $32M for the Cotto fight and that's before all the PPV/Gate sales. So the guy is already making a nice chunk of change without Manny. So why would Floyd want to split half with Manny when he can take the majority of the money and take safer fights? On top of splitting half the proceeds, he has to risk losing his perfect record, his health (Floyds own words) or getting another bloody nose. I'm starting to think he is not that eager to make this fight happen.

[raiderfan19]

Btw that boxing news link with ppv buys is wrong. That had 1.15 mil buys, not 1.5 mil. Pretty huge difference.

[IcanzIIravor]

Btw that boxing news link with ppv buys is wrong. That had 1.15 mil buys, not 1.5 mil. Pretty huge difference.

Is there a link to the correction in numbers?

[RaininTwos]

its going to happen, they arent going to leave that much money on the table.

[nathanjizzle]

its not going to happen. if it were to happen it would have happened a year ago. mayweather will retire soon, so is pacquaio. fight will never happen just deal with it.

[RaininTwos]

its not going to happen. if it were to happen it would have happened a year ago. mayweather will retire soon, so is pacquaio. fight will never happen just deal with it.

dude, hundreds of millions are to be made from this fight, its going to happen

[nathanjizzle]

dude, hundreds of millions are to be made from this fight, its going to happen

its really not. the money they will make is overrated anyway. it would only take 2-3 fights for each fighter to make the same amount in that 1 fight anyway. not going to happen any more, everyday that goes by is less likely it will happen now and the fight sure as hell aint happening in a year, and mayweather aint getting any younger.

[raiderfan19]

Is there a link to the correction in numbers?
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-pacnumbers112310

[IcanzIIravor]

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-pacnumbers112310

That's a link from 2010 about Manny. I thought you meant Floyd's ppv numbers where lower than what has been stated.

[raiderfan19]

That's a link from 2010 about Manny. I thought you meant Floyd's ppv numbers where lower than what has been stated.
No, I meant the link that said PAC was a bigger ppv draw and listed mannys buy results for his last several fights. It listed the margarito fight as 1.5 mil which is incorrect

[DuMa]

this fight is going to happen but it will drag on too long and put one of them out of their prime. or worst, both.

[MontaHardaway]

LOL now the LGBT community gonna root for Floyd to beat Pac.

Either that or Pac is gonna be doing endless gay community service Tim Hardaway style

[SCREWstonRockets]

Lol dumb comments but he never said gay people should be killed. And people seem to be runnig with that. If I was Floyd, I'd come out and support gay marriage. He already has a gay man on his team (Lenoard Ellerbe) and he could get fans to crossover to his side that were Pacman fans.

[L.Kizzle]

Lol dumb comments but he never said gay people should be killed. And people seem to be runnig with that. If I was Floyd, I'd come out and support gay marriage. He already has a gay man on his team (Justin Bieber) and he could get fans to crossover to his side that were Pacman fans.
fixed

[MontaHardaway]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :applause: :applause:

once again, Floyd shows he's not as dumb as people think

[DuMa]

Floyd has turned a new leaf. trying to win back some popularity instead of trying to become public enemy number 1 :biggums:

[SwaglessManatee]

it has begun



http://twitter.com/#!/FloydMayweather/status/202864512473366528
:applause: Brave of him to announce that......weeks before his time in jail

:lol

[flipogb]

it has begun



http://twitter.com/#!/FloydMayweather/status/202864512473366528

I hate this guy, but hes an evil genius

[RedBlackAttack]

Alex Ariza, Pacquiao's strength and conditioning coach and his thoughts on mayweather/pacman



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tensions-pacquiao-camp-alex-ariza-criticizes-bob-arum-223600843--box.html
Once again, Alex Ariza steps forward with some truth-telling. Arum is the biggest snake in professional sports. Fat greedy slob.

[RedBlackAttack]

As for the gay thing... I support gay rights to the fullest. I don't think it should be a matter left up to the states and that gay marriage should be a civil right and thus protected federally.

That said, I'm not going to crucify a guy who punches people in the face and gets punched in the face for a living for being ignorant about a hot political topic.

Pacquiao isn't smart. This shouldn't be news to anyone who has ever heard him speak. He was a street kid coming up in ghettos that would make the worst parts of the United States look like Beverly Hills. He made himself very rich and very famous, not for being an intellectual, but for punching people in the face.

Who cares what he thinks about gay marriage? Is it ignorant and bigoted? Hell yes. Is it unexpected? Hell no.

[raiderfan19]

As for the gay thing... I support gay rights to the fullest. I don't think it should be a matter left up to the states and that gay marriage should be a civil right and thus protected federally.

That said, I'm not going to crucify a guy who punches people in the face and gets punched in the face for a living for being ignorant about a hot political topic.

Pacquiao isn't smart. This shouldn't be news to anyone who has ever heard him speak. He was a street kid coming up in ghettos that would make the worst parts of the United States look like Beverly Hills. He made himself very rich and very famous, not for being an intellectual, but for punching people in the face.

Who cares what he thinks about gay marriage? Is it ignorant and bigoted? Hell yes. Is it unexpected? Hell no.
I agree with this about pacquiao the boxer, it is important to remember he's also a Filipino congressman though so his thoughts on stuff like this matter... I don't really see any argument whatsoever as to how anyone can come up with a legal reason to block gay marriage and I'm a pretty devout Christian. I just don't see how my or anyone's religion should effect someone else's rights...

[MontaHardaway]

Pacquiao is just a straight up stupid motherfu*cker.

:lol :lol :lol :lol doesn't he have any pr people or advisors?

[Tarik One]

Lol dumb comments but he never said gay people should be killed. And people seem to be runnig with that. If I was Floyd, I'd come out and support gay marriage. He already has a gay man on his team (Lenoard Ellerbe) and he could get fans to crossover to his side that were Pacman fans.

http://www.boxnews.com.ua/photos/1005/Shane-Mosley-Floyd-Mayweather36.jpg

"He thanks everyone but his daddy. He thanks Leonard Ellerbe, a homosexual. I know he's a homosexual and everyone else knows it. You can print that because I said it. I can tell you nothing else but how gay he is"

[flipogb]

I agree with this about pacquiao the boxer, it is important to remember he's also a Filipino congressman though so his thoughts on stuff like this matter... I don't really see any argument whatsoever as to how anyone can come up with a legal reason to block gay marriage and I'm a pretty devout Christian. I just don't see how my or anyone's religion should effect someone else's rights...

yeah its not like they are asking to get married in the church, so why hould religion affect what will take place in some courthouse

[flipogb]

Pacquiao is just a straight up stupid motherfu*cker.

:lol :lol :lol :lol doesn't he have any pr people or advisors?

the takes advice from the bible , takes it literally . thats bad


I believe there is a God but I dont think you should believe word for word on the bible, its meant to be a guide not strict law

[SCREWstonRockets]

These two cant agree on anything! I can see it now...50/50 split, ok. Random drug testing, ok. Gay marriage? The fight is off!!

Can we get their thoughts on the national debt crisis?

[Lebron23]

I want to see Pacquiao vs. Mayweather at SM Mall of Asia Sports Arena.