Are NBA fans better than NFL, MLB and NHL?

[Westbrook0]

What do you think?

[DMV2]

We're younger than than MLB fans, smaller(popularity-wise) than NFL fans and darker than NHL fans.

[(e)]

I'm a pretty big fan of both the NBA and NFL, so...

[Westbrook0]

We're younger than than MLB fans, smaller(popularity-wise) than NFL fans and darker than NHL fans.

I would agree with this statement. Hockey is more niche than NBA.

NBA fans are probably the youngest demographic of the four major sports.

And NBA fans are probably more passionate about their sport than baseball fans.

I think the biggest difference is, basketball is the only team sport you can really practice on your own. Any kid can pick up a basketball and shoot, dribble and pass at the wall. That means it's not hard to gain more fans, especially young fans who get out there and play.

[Heavincent]

NFL fans are the best.

[t-rex]

I'm a pretty big fan of both the NBA and NFL, so...


MLB fan base- Very old. (Only golf trends older believe it or not.) Very white. Also surprisingly very regionalized. Predominately northeast and few large cities (Detroit, St. Louis etc.). I can't stress age enough. Even in baseball centered areas such as Boston and New York, once you break below the 40 year old barrier, MLB declines rapidly. Terrible demographics for long term success. Not many people are aware that the NBA outdraws MLB in TV audience for regular and post season play. Baseball is actually over covered by the national sports media based on its popularity.


NHL fan base-Hockey is doing very well by hockey standards in the TV ratings this year. Over the course of my lifetime, hockey is the biggest fraud in the sports world. It has never been among the 4 most popular sports in this country. It is even more regionalized than baseball with concentration centers in the old northeast and midwest cities. Hockey is NOT the #1 sport in any major metropolitan area or region of the country. Demographic profile is old and white.

NFL fan base-Dominant #1. No other sport in this country comes close. The NFL is so large, that if you took away men, there are enough women who follow the sport to still keep it in the top slot. The NFL is #1 in demograpahics across the board, #1 in revenue and #1 in TV ratings. Even more amazing, the more successful a person is (based on education and income) the more likely they are to be fans of NFL football compared to other sports. The NFL is the only sport in the country that scores well in all regions of the country. It does well with every demographic group and has made fantastic inroads with women. The NFL is so dominant, that even the NFL Pro Bowl (which is a terrible event), can draw a larger TV audience than the World Series or NBA Finals game. Nothing is close to Roger Goodell's league. Its unstoppable.


NBA fan base-The youngest demographic audience among the major sports. Also by far the most diverse. TV ratings have really increased in recent years. The NBA now outdraws MLB, and with its younger demographics it is an edge likely to continue and even grow. Audience is absurdly diverse. The NBA is very strong in the west and major metropolitan areas. The NBA is the #1 sport in Phoenix, Portland and Los Angeles as examples. It also does well in the northeast. It does not fair well in the South. But don't stereotype. The NBA is very popular in the Oklahoma market.



Here's how it works.

Say you are at your family reunion. Grandpa is falling asleep to the baseball game. The teenage son loves the NBA. Dad loves the NFL. And when the NFL is on, his sons, wife, daughters and the whole family will watch. The NHL is watched only there is nothing else on. That's what the research and numbers tell us.

[tomtucker]

i will never understand why the NFL and football is so popular.........the game is 10 seconds of play, then a long pause...repeat.......can

[Heavincent]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]i will never understand why the NFL and football is so popular.........the game is 10 seconds of play, then a long pause...repeat.......can

[Droid101]

You make good points but you keep saying "dominate" when you mean "dominant" which makes my eyes bleed.

I don't get NFL popularity at all. It's almost as boring as baseball.

[tmacattack33]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]i will never understand why the NFL and football is so popular.........the game is 10 seconds of play, then a long pause...repeat.......can

[colorz]

I don't get NFL popularity at all. It's almost as boring as baseball.

NFL isn't boring, but I agree. I never understood why it was so much more popular than all the other sports.

[jbryan1984]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]i will never understand why the NFL and football is so popular.........the game is 10 seconds of play, then a long pause...repeat.......can

[Heavincent]

I agree, never got into football. Its boring, too much standing around and is the only sport where basically anyone can play (so many guys out of shape). If you can throw far, run fast or be big muscle wise or fat, you can play football.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Ignorance.

[Droid101]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Ignorance.
Sorry, but it makes no sense that it's popular.

Fans are super far away from the action at live games.

All the players have their faces covered.

You don't get to see strange/interesting situations, like a Quarterback defending a Wide Receiver (unlike the NBA where switches can happen all the time).

Your favorite players don't play the majority of the game because of the offense/defense team difference.

Every play lasts about 2 seconds with another 20 seconds of standing around.

Seriously, I don't get it.

[DMV2]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]i will never understand why the NFL and football is so popular.........the game is 10 seconds of play, then a long pause...repeat.......can

[swi7ch]

Only GSW and NYK fans. The rest aren't really fans. Have you seen the LAL crowd? They spend more times on their phones than actually watching the game! :roll:

NFL fans are the best followed by the NHL.

[JohnnySic]

MLB and NFL are both "old man" sports. Go to an NFL game; the typical fan is a male in his 40's-50's.

[t-rex]

You make good points but you keep saying "dominate" when you mean "dominant" which makes my eyes bleed.

I don't get NFL popularity at all. It's almost as boring as baseball.


Thanks for the correction.:rockon:

I can't believe I missed that. :facepalm

[Droid101]

Only GSW and NYK fans. The rest aren't really fans. Have you seen the LAL crowd? They spend more times on their phones than actually watching the game! :roll:

Get over yourself. You only see the lower bowl on TV.

Go a little higher, and the LA fans are crazy. Hell, even outside Staples center, you have a bunch of Laker fans just wandering around because they couldn't get tickets to the game. They literally stand hang out outside of Staples.

[colorz]

Only GSW and NYK fans. The rest aren't really fans. Have you seen the LAL crowd? They spend more times on their phones than actually watching the game! :roll:

NFL fans are the best followed by the NHL.

Laker fans aren't that bad, they're no GSW, but they aren't bad.

[LBJDW305]

I agree, never got into football. Its boring, too much standing around and is the only sport where basically anyone can play (so many guys out of shape). If you can throw far, run fast or be big muscle wise or fat, you can play football. Also, way to many rules. Most football fans I know, don't even know half the rules. If I watch with them I say "what does that mean" and they have no idea.

The reason I respect the NBA so much is because out of all the major sports, you truly have to be in shape (Eddy Curry aside) to play. So much action and about the only sport that adds a little drama. I really admire the athleticism it takes. Also, it pretty much is a contact sport, those guys get hammered sometimes and unlike hockey and football, they are not covered in padding.


Nba has to many rules as well. This is ignorance at its finest...:facepalm

I rather go to a football game then a basketball game. More passionate fans. Tailgating. It can get crazy sometimes.

[DMV2]

Only GSW and NYK fans. The rest aren't really fans. Have you seen the LAL crowd? They spend more times on their phones than actually watching the game! :roll:

NFL fans are the best followed by the NHL.
Bullshit!

OKC, Utah, Chicago, Boston, Portland (and others) all have die-hard fans....and even those shitty Raptors have crazy ass fans too.

[JohnnySic]

I don't get NFL popularity at all. It's almost as boring as baseball.
Its popular because every game is an event. People tailgate before/after games or have cookouts at home. They eat and drink throught the game, and dont miss anything because there is so much "dead time" between plays.

Also, its on Sunday, when most people are off work and just relaxing and enjoying themselves, and football becomes a part of that.

No other sport is like that.

[colorz]

Its popular because every game is an event. People tailgate before/after games or have cookouts at home. They eat and drink throught the game, and dont miss anything bcause there is so much "dead time" between plays.

Also, its on Sunday, when most people are off work and just relaxing and enjoying themselves, and football becomes a part of that.

No other sport is like that.

NASCAR :dancin

[t-rex]

Easiest sport to follow. One day out of the week in a 5 month stretch, sometimes two or three days a week if you're watching the Monday and Thursday night games.

The game itself, I like. I can watch any team play as long as it's a good game. But the obsession over the league, however, is overrated.

For example, ESPN has two 30-minute football programs on at 4-5, one for college football and the other for NFL. The shows go on year-round. I doubt fans keep up with the transactions, scouting reports, trades, drafts every single week during the offseason.


ESPN went to more NFL coverage because the ratings go up when the NFL is on. This is why NFL Live is now a year round show. I don't think the general public even realizes how much bigger the NFL is compared to all other sports.

For instance, its possible take a World Series game day TV audience and an NBA Finals TV audience and they would not equal the audience for a good NFL regular season game combined!

As long as the numbers and fans dictate it, you are going to see the NFL continue to take over ESPN and other sports outlets.

It drives me crazy too. I tuned in to sports talk radio today, hoping to hear some NBA coverage, and all they are talking about is the NFL, bounties, the Saints, and concussions.

Its an NFL world, and all the other sports must live by their rules.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sorry, but it makes no sense that it's popular.

Fans are super far away from the action at live games.

All the players have their faces covered.

You don't get to see strange/interesting situations, like a Quarterback defending a Wide Receiver (unlike the NBA where switches can happen all the time).

Your favorite players don't play the majority of the game because of the offense/defense team difference.

Every play lasts about 2 seconds with another 20 seconds of standing around.

Seriously, I don't get it.

Basketball is more popular globally where as in the states it's football...for God knows what reason...

[t-rex]

Basketball is more popular globally where as in the states it's football...for God knows what reason...


Good point.

What's really interesting is that the extreme love affair for the NFL is an American passion exclusively! The NFL has tried to break into the European and Asian markets and has for the most part failed. The rest of the world is lost as to why its so popular.

Basketball does much better on a global scale than football. The NBA is way more popular in a place like China than the NFL would ever hope to be.


The rest of the world doesn't understand our love affair with the NFL either.


The NFL for whatever reason is uniquely American.

[bdreason]

I think NBA fans are probably the worst of all 4. Too many NBA fans are fans of players, not teams. It's really the league's fault for promoting the individual over the team. The NHL, NFL, and MLB all promote the team first.

[Heavincent]

It's absolutely cringe worthy seeing people that don't know anything about football try to talk about it.

[pauk]

Not with all these Kobetards around...

And who cares about NFL, MLB, NHL? Thats as popular as womens cricket outside the US... :D

[jbryan1984]

America has pretty much brought people up to be football fans, I get that. I just never went for it. Everyone has their own interests though, some people even like golf :lol

[CLTHornets4eva]

I think NBA fans are probably the worst of all 4. Too many NBA fans are fans of players, not teams. It's really the league's fault for promoting the individual over the team. The NHL, NFL, and MLB all promote the team first.

Completely agree. NBA fans can change allegiances on a dime. Many have multiple teams they pull for on a daily basis.

[RaininTwos]

MLB fan base- Very old. (Only golf trends older believe it or not.) Very white. Also surprisingly very regionalized. Predominately northeast and few large cities (Detroit, St. Louis etc.). I can't stress age enough. Even in baseball centered areas such as Boston and New York, once you break below the 40 year old barrier, MLB declines rapidly. Terrible demographics for long term success. Not many people are aware that the NBA outdraws MLB in TV audience for regular and post season play. Baseball is actually over covered by the national sports media based on its popularity.


NHL fan base-Hockey is doing very well by hockey standards in the TV ratings this year. Over the course of my lifetime, hockey is the biggest fraud in the sports world. It has never been among the 4 most popular sports in this country. It is even more regionalized than baseball with concentration centers in the old northeast and midwest cities. Hockey is NOT the #1 sport in any major metropolitan area or region of the country. Demographic profile is old and white.

NFL fan base-Dominant #1. No other sport in this country comes close. The NFL is so large, that if you took away men, there are enough women who follow the sport to still keep it in the top slot. The NFL is #1 in demograpahics across the board, #1 in revenue and #1 in TV ratings. Even more amazing, the more successful a person is (based on education and income) the more likely they are to be fans of NFL football compared to other sports. The NFL is the only sport in the country that scores well in all regions of the country. It does well with every demographic group and has made fantastic inroads with women. The NFL is so dominant, that even the NFL Pro Bowl (which is a terrible event), can draw a larger TV audience than the World Series or NBA Finals game. Nothing is close to Roger Goodell's league. Its unstoppable.


NBA fan base-The youngest demographic audience among the major sports. Also by far the most diverse. TV ratings have really increased in recent years. The NBA now outdraws MLB, and with its younger demographics it is an edge likely to continue and even grow. Audience is absurdly diverse. The NBA is very strong in the west and major metropolitan areas. The NBA is the #1 sport in Phoenix, Portland and Los Angeles as examples. It also does well in the northeast. It does not fair well in the South. But don't stereotype. The NBA is very popular in the Oklahoma market.



Here's how it works.

Say you are at your family reunion. Grandpa is falling asleep to the baseball game. The teenage son loves the NBA. Dad loves the NFL. And when the NFL is on, his sons, wife, daughters and the whole family will watch. The NHL is watched only there is nothing else on. That's what the research and numbers tell us.


You do realize that Toronto has teams in three of these leagues right? You like totally ignored them. I guess they are the anomaly.

[Cowboy Thunder]

We're younger than than MLB fans, smaller(popularity-wise) than NFL fans and darker than NHL fans.

Young ,small and dark. That doesn't bode well in the real world.

[fsvr54]

Basketball is the only team sport I like. Just not into those other ones.

[DMV2]

ESPN went to more NFL coverage because the ratings go up when the NFL is on. This is why NFL Live is now a year round show. I don't think the general public even realizes how much bigger the NFL is compared to all other sports.

For instance, its possible take a World Series game day TV audience and an NBA Finals TV audience and they would not equal the audience for a good NFL regular season game combined!

As long as the numbers and fans dictate it, you are going to see the NFL continue to take over ESPN and other sports outlets.

It drives me crazy too. I tuned in to sports talk radio today, hoping to hear some NBA coverage, and all they are talking about is the NFL, bounties, the Saints, and concussions.

Its an NFL world, and all the other sports must live by their rules.
The offseason coverage is what I have a problem with. I don't need to be reminded of the Bountygate everyday of the week.

Instead of talking about football in the offseason, they(ESPN and other sports network) should start promoting the Canadian Football League(Jun to Nov) or better yet bring back the XFL for shits and giggles.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wow. Lots of hate for football I see.

For people that are new to football and didn't get brought up on it the way I did and the way most Americans have been, I can see why it is difficult to get attached to. There are so many rules and the game is much more complex than running up and down a piece of wood and putting a ball in a hoop.

To really enjoy the game of football, you have to innately understand what strategies should be utilized on which downs, what each of the 22 players on the field should be doing, and how to recognize when a player/coach has made a strategic error... And how the opponent was able to capitalize on it.

The reason that there is so much time in between downs is because of these strategic intricacies that each team is employing. For real football fans, the huddles and ongoing strategies are as interesting as when the play is actually happening. You can debate with your friends what the team should do, how they should attack, who should be on the field, etc.

And, then you have all of the penalties and rules that have to be instinctively understood... It is a lot to take in if you aren't brought up on it.

While no sporting event is anything like war (and I don't want to give off the impression that I think anything compares to that), the strategy involved with American football is so complex, that it can be compared to offensives/counter offensives in a wartime environment.

[hawksdogsbraves]

MLB fan base- Very old. (Only golf trends older believe it or not.) Very white. Also surprisingly very regionalized. Predominately northeast and few large cities (Detroit, St. Louis etc.). I can't stress age enough. Even in baseball centered areas such as Boston and New York, once you break below the 40 year old barrier, MLB declines rapidly. Terrible demographics for long term success. Not many people are aware that the NBA outdraws MLB in TV audience for regular and post season play. Baseball is actually over covered by the national sports media based on its popularity.


NHL fan base-Hockey is doing very well by hockey standards in the TV ratings this year. Over the course of my lifetime, hockey is the biggest fraud in the sports world. It has never been among the 4 most popular sports in this country. It is even more regionalized than baseball with concentration centers in the old northeast and midwest cities. Hockey is NOT the #1 sport in any major metropolitan area or region of the country. Demographic profile is old and white.

NFL fan base-Dominant #1. No other sport in this country comes close. The NFL is so large, that if you took away men, there are enough women who follow the sport to still keep it in the top slot. The NFL is #1 in demograpahics across the board, #1 in revenue and #1 in TV ratings. Even more amazing, the more successful a person is (based on education and income) the more likely they are to be fans of NFL football compared to other sports. The NFL is the only sport in the country that scores well in all regions of the country. It does well with every demographic group and has made fantastic inroads with women. The NFL is so dominant, that even the NFL Pro Bowl (which is a terrible event), can draw a larger TV audience than the World Series or NBA Finals game. Nothing is close to Roger Goodell's league. Its unstoppable.


NBA fan base-The youngest demographic audience among the major sports. Also by far the most diverse. TV ratings have really increased in recent years. The NBA now outdraws MLB, and with its younger demographics it is an edge likely to continue and even grow. Audience is absurdly diverse. The NBA is very strong in the west and major metropolitan areas. The NBA is the #1 sport in Phoenix, Portland and Los Angeles as examples. It also does well in the northeast. It does not fair well in the South. But don't stereotype. The NBA is very popular in the Oklahoma market.



Here's how it works.

Say you are at your family reunion. Grandpa is falling asleep to the baseball game. The teenage son loves the NBA. Dad loves the NFL. And when the NFL is on, his sons, wife, daughters and the whole family will watch. The NHL is watched only there is nothing else on. That's what the research and numbers tell us.

Good write up, but the MLB makes significantly more than the NBA does. For reference, the New York Yankees are worth $1.7 billion, while the Knicks, the most valuable NBA team, is worth $655 million.

The NBA is gaining in popularity but it still lags behind the MLB, which is even further from the NFL which as you wrote is truly a juggernaut.

[Cowboy Thunder]

Wow. Lots of hate for football I see.

For people that are new to football and didn't get brought up on it the way I did and the way most Americans have been, I can see why it is difficult to get attached to. There are so many rules and the game is much more complex than running up and down a piece of wood and putting a ball in a hoop.

To really enjoy the game of football, you to innately understand what strategies should be utilized on which downs, what each of the 22 players on the field should be doing, and how to recognize when a player/coach has made a strategic error... And how the opponent was able to capitalize on it.

The reason that there is so much time in between downs is because of these strategic intricacies that each team is employing. For real football fans, the huddles and ongoing strategies are as interesting as when the play is actually happening. You can debate with your friends what the team should do, how they should attack, who should be on the field, etc.

While no sporting event is anything like war (and I don't want to give off the impression that I think anything compares to that), the strategy involved with American football is so complex, that it can be compared to offensives/counter offensives in a wartime environment.

well said.

football = chess

most other sports = checkers

[t-rex]

You do realize that Toronto has teams in three of these leagues right? You like totally ignored them. I guess they are the anomaly.


You are exactly right. I focused on the U.S. On this scale the Canadian market is not that important.

For instance, hockey is the number one sport in Canada. So why do you think TV execs and the NHL brass don't want a Canadian team in the finals? Canadian teams don't draw. And the Canadian audience alone isn't big enough to justify the loss in revenue because U.S. audiences just don't care.


For the record, I'm not saying I agree with this. But thats what the data tell us.

[t-rex]

Good write up, but the MLB makes significantly more than the NBA does. For reference, the New York Yankees are worth $1.7 billion, while the Knicks, the most valuable NBA team, is worth $655 million.

The NBA is gaining in popularity but it still lags behind the MLB, which is even further from the NFL which as you wrote is truly a juggernaut.


Fair post. But I wasn't focusing on team net worth, but rather fan popularity. For instance the New York Yankees are worth more than the New York Jets. Does that mean baseball is more popular than the NFL with an American audience?

They are actually 2 different topics.

[t-rex]

Wow. Lots of hate for football I see.

For people that are new to football and didn't get brought up on it the way I did and the way most Americans have been, I can see why it is difficult to get attached to. There are so many rules and the game is much more complex than running up and down a piece of wood and putting a ball in a hoop.

To really enjoy the game of football, you have to innately understand what strategies should be utilized on which downs, what each of the 22 players on the field should be doing, and how to recognize when a player/coach has made a strategic error... And how the opponent was able to capitalize on it.

The reason that there is so much time in between downs is because of these strategic intricacies that each team is employing. For real football fans, the huddles and ongoing strategies are as interesting as when the play is actually happening. You can debate with your friends what the team should do, how they should attack, who should be on the field, etc.

And, then you have all of the penalties and rules that have to be instinctively understood... It is a lot to take in if you aren't brought up on it.

While no sporting event is anything like war (and I don't want to give off the impression that I think anything compares to that), the strategy involved with American football is so complex, that it can be compared to offensives/counter offensives in a wartime environment.

Thank you for your input, Mr. Vince Lombardi:oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Thank you for your input, Mr. Vince Lombardi:oldlol:
I would prefer to be Paul Brown. :cheers:

[t-rex]

I would prefer to be Paul Brown. :cheers:


Fair enough! :oldlol:

I was thinking about Bill Walsh or Vince Lombardi in my last post. But Paul Brown is better. He was one of the true godfathers of the game. Paul Brown even invented the face mask! Its a shame his son has largely run the Bengals into the grown for a generation.

:cheers:

[BigBalla44]

I guess I'm the weird one. I LOVE basketball. Dedicated much of my life to the game.

With that said, I would rather WATCH football on TV. The drama is much more interesting to me.

[RedBlackAttack]

I guess I'm the weird one. I LOVE basketball. Dedicated much of my life to the game.

With that said, I would rather WATCH football on TV. The drama is much more interesting to me.
Trust me, you aren't the weird one. You are in the overwhelming majority in America.

I love basketball, too, but football is a religion in Ohio. The game was invented here and, growing up in this environment, nothing quite compares to it.

It's sort of like this... Basketball is a great sports. Football is a religion.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Random stat: Monday night raw had more viewers than any of the playoff games last monday.

The valuations are slightly skewed becasue the MLB and NFL facilities are much more valuable than NBA arenas.

That being said, I think we all understand the pecking order.

[flipogb]

the low amount of games in the NFL is pathetic , not a fan of either but at least hockey plays just as much as the NBA

[flipogb]

Trust me, you aren't the weird one. You are in the overwhelming majority in America.

I love basketball, too, but football is a religion in Ohio. The game was invented here and, growing up in this environment, nothing quite compares to it.

It's sort of like this... Basketball is a great sports. Football is a religion.
yup, like church its once a week, lol

[CLTHornets4eva]

the low amount of games in the NFL is pathetic , not a fan of either but at least hockey plays just as much as the NBA

Most casual fans think the NBA has way too many. Def. too many round 1 playoff games.

[jbryan1984]

Trust me, you aren't the weird one. You are in the overwhelming majority in America.

I love basketball, too, but football is a religion in Ohio. The game was invented here and, growing up in this environment, nothing quite compares to it.

It's sort of like this... Basketball is a great sports. Football is a religion.


I know RBA, I know this. I live in Massillon where the Tigers/Bulldogs rivalry is one of the top ones in the nation. I just never got into it. Everyone is entitled to what they like. We are all basketball fans here, that's why I stay here. I am also on a pro wrestling board and used to be on one for the show Lost (my all time fav show). Like I said, everyone likes different things but we all love basketball here.

[RedBlackAttack]

I know RBA, I know this. I live in Massillon where the Tigers/Bulldogs rivalry is one of the top ones in the nation. I just never got into it. Everyone is entitled to what they like. We are all basketball fans here, that's why I stay here. I am also on a pro wrestling board and used to be on one for the show Lost (my all time fav show). Like I said, everyone likes different things but we all love basketball here.
So, wait... Let me get this straight... You live in f#cking Massillon, Ohio and you don't get football?!

Holy sh!t, man. :biggums:


That is literally Ground Zero for football madness in the world. Paul Brown Tiger Stadium is the most legendary high school football stadium in the country.

I am from Steubenville and we played in Massillon a couple of years ago... There were about 25,000 people at the game... A high school game.

Wow, man... You must be bored as hell on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays during football season... And also Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday when that is all people talk about.

[RaininTwos]

You are exactly right. I focused on the U.S. On this scale the Canadian market is not that important.

For instance, hockey is the number one sport in Canada. So why do you think TV execs and the NHL brass don't want a Canadian team in the finals? Canadian teams don't draw. And the Canadian audience alone isn't big enough to justify the loss in revenue because U.S. audiences just don't care.


For the record, I'm not saying I agree with this. But thats what the data tell us.
Yeah I figured it would be best to leave them out due to how unique the city is.

[t-rex]

Yeah I figured it would be best to leave them out due to how unique the city is.


With the demise of the city of Buffalo, it looks like the NFL's Buffalo Bills may have to form a partnership with Toronto to remain in the western New York area. I would love to see how the Toronto market would react to having an NFL team.

It would also be interesting for the US market. For instance, if the Bills play half their games in Toronto and make to the Super Bowl, are TV ratings affected they way they would be if the Raptors, Blue Jays or Maple Leafs were playing in their sports championship?

Conventional wisdom says the NFL is so big, it doesn't matter what market the teams are from. But the NFL has never had a team from Canada in a big spot. That would be interesting.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wow. Lots of hate for football I see.

For people that are new to football and didn't get brought up on it the way I did and the way most Americans have been, I can see why it is difficult to get attached to. There are so many rules and the game is much more complex than running up and down a piece of wood and putting a ball in a hoop.

To really enjoy the game of football, you have to innately understand what strategies should be utilized on which downs, what each of the 22 players on the field should be doing, and how to recognize when a player/coach has made a strategic error... And how the opponent was able to capitalize on it.

The reason that there is so much time in between downs is because of these strategic intricacies that each team is employing. For real football fans, the huddles and ongoing strategies are as interesting as when the play is actually happening. You can debate with your friends what the team should do, how they should attack, who should be on the field, etc.

And, then you have all of the penalties and rules that have to be instinctively understood... It is a lot to take in if you aren't brought up on it.

While no sporting event is anything like war (and I don't want to give off the impression that I think anything compares to that), the strategy involved with American football is so complex, that it can be compared to offensives/counter offensives in a wartime environment.

I love football, dont get it twisted. I just can't for the life of me figure out how over here, and ONLY here, its more popular than basketball.

The artistry, aesthetics, control, spontaneity, improv, instinct and athleticism - the game of basketball. It will always be my first love.

[jbryan1984]

So, wait... Let me get this straight... You live in f#cking Massillon, Ohio and you don't get football?!

Holy sh!t, man. :biggums:


That is literally Ground Zero for football madness in the world. Paul Brown Tiger Stadium is the most legendary high school football stadium in the country.

I am from Steubenville and we played in Massillon a couple of years ago... There were about 25,000 people at the game... A high school game.

Wow, man... You must be bored as hell on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays during football season... And also Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday when that is all people talk about.



Yes, it is a big deal here. I went to a smaller school though on the west side of the city. I played one year there, just didn't like it. I still went to the games and shit at Paul Brown when I was in school though. Even if you don't like it, it was for sure the place to be on Friday nights in the fall.

[c3z4r]

You are exactly right. I focused on the U.S. On this scale the Canadian market is not that important.

For instance, hockey is the number one sport in Canada. So why do you think TV execs and the NHL brass don't want a Canadian team in the finals? Canadian teams don't draw. And the Canadian audience alone isn't big enough to justify the loss in revenue because U.S. audiences just don't care.


For the record, I'm not saying I agree with this. But thats what the data tell us.

On this scale the Canadian market is not important? You are simply talking out your ass. Canadian teams accounted for 33% of NHL's ticket revenue in 2010-2011, an increase from 07-08 where it was 31% and there are only 6 Canadian teams in the NHL. If 6 out of 30 represent that much of the profit share you simply can't be ignorant and say they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

[christian1923]

Did you guys see that Rangers game?!? NHL!!

[RedBlackAttack]

Yes, it is a big deal here. I went to a smaller school though on the west side of the city. I played one year there, just didn't like it. I still went to the games and shit at Paul Brown when I was in school though. Even if you don't like it, it was for sure the place to be on Friday nights in the fall.
So, would that be Tuslaw?


I love football, dont get it twisted. I just can't for the life of me figure out how over here, and ONLY here, its more popular than basketball.

The artistry, aesthetics, control, spontaneity, improv, instinct and athleticism - the game of basketball. It will always be my first love.

Well, football is way more popular than anything in America, so it isn't just basketball that takes a backseat. Everything takes a backseat.

And, basketball takes a backseat to futboll ie soccer overseas.

[t-rex]

On this scale the Canadian market is not important? You are simply talking out your ass. Canadian teams accounted for 33% of NHL's ticket revenue in 2010-2011, an increase from 07-08 where it was 31% and there are only 6 Canadian teams in the NHL. If 6 out of 30 represent that much of the profit share you simply can't be ignorant and say they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Do you think the NHL wants any Canadian team in its Final?

Do you think MLB wants any Canadian team in its World Series?

Do you think David Stern wants the Toronto Raptors in the NBA Finals?


Ticket revenue is not how sports make their money. The money that drives professional sports comes from TV revenue. TV revenue is driven by TV ratings. That's what makes the NFL king. TV rights deals are the #1 source of revenue for all major sports leagues. And Canadian teams don't drive ratings. And the Canadian markets such as Toronto, Edmonton, etc. are not close to big enough to make up the difference lost, because American cities lose interest when Canadian teams play.

I think you need to do a little more home-work with regard to where sports revenue really comes from before you criticize others. Its nothing personal. Its just fact as to how sports business is conducted. :confusedshrug:


It doesn't say a lot when the NHL is the #1 sport in Canada. But the sport benefits most when none of the Canadian teams are competing for a championship.

[c3z4r]

Do you think the NHL wants any Canadian team in its Final?

Do you think MLB wants any Canadian team in its World Series?

Do you think David Stern wants the Toronto Raptors in the NBA Finals?


Ticket revenue is not how sports make their money. The money that drives professional sports comes from TV revenue. TV revenue is driven by TV ratings. That's what makes the NFL king. TV rights deals are the #1 source of revenue for all major sports leagues. And Canadian teams don't drive ratings. And the Canadian markets such as Toronto, Edmonton, etc. are not close to big enough to make up the difference lost, because American cities lose interest when Canadian teams play.

I think you need to do a little more home-work with regard to where sports revenue really comes from before you criticize others. Its nothing personal. Its just fact as to how sports business is conducted. :confusedshrug:


It doesn't say a lot when the NHL is the #1 sport in Canada. But the sport benefits most when none of the Canadian teams are competing for a championship.

Look, you said that Canadian hockey teams are not important in the grand scheme of things because they don't generate enough money for the NHL. I provided proof that indeed they do provide a hell lot of money, 33% of 1.2 billion dollars from tickets revenue come from Canadian teams, approximately 400 millions from only 6 teams. This year they've relocated the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg and apparently the Winnipeg Jets sold out all of their games, which means another increase in ticket revenue from Canada.

Now I see that after I've proved you wrong, you changed your stance. Since you won't provide me with any numbers on the NHL revenue and its recently signed tv deal with NBC, then I will. The NHL has signed a $2 billion contract per 10 years with NBC, meaning $200 milion/year and $6.6 milion/team.

I think there's a significant difference between the two amounts of money and anybody, even you, can see that.

Btw, I think you're the one who need to do his homework, because like I said in my previous post, you were clearly talking out of your ass, since I bet you didn't even know that the NHL is a "gate-driven league", where ticket revenue accounts for close to half of the league's total revenue. Unlike the NFL, there are no huge Tv-deals and sponsorship contracts that provide teams with billions of dollars, so I think you should stick to your field of work instead of trying to provide an economical analysis for North-American sports.

[ClutchOver9000]

It's absolutely cringe worthy seeing people that don't know anything about football try to talk about it.

this

[RedBlackAttack]

this
I will say that hearing people with no clue of how the game works complain about "too much time in-between the action" gets a little tiresome. I mean, that is what makes football different from, say, rugby or Aussie football. The strategic element makes it unlike any other contact sport out there... It is what makes American football so unique.

Listen, I'm not saying that everyone should love it or be a fan of it, but to mindlessly complain about the element that makes it the unique sport that it is...

For real football fans, it is a little cringe-worthy.


For soccer ie futbol ie football fans, it is like when people complain that there isn't enough scoring. I'm sure you facepalm when you see it... That is how we feel when people complain about huddles in-between plays.

[CavaliersFTW]

yes

[ClutchOver9000]

I will say that hearing people with no clue of how the game works complain about "too much time in-between the action" gets a little tiresome. I mean, that is what makes football different from, say, rugby or Aussie football. The strategic element makes it unlike any other contact sport out there... It is what makes American football so unique.

Listen, I'm not saying that everyone should love it or be a fan of it, but to mindlessly complain about the element that makes it the unique sport that it is...

For real football fans, it is a little cringe-worthy.


For soccer ie futbol ie football fans, it is like when people complain that there isn't enough scoring. I'm sure you facepalm when you see it... That is how we feel when people complain about huddles in-between plays.

:applause:

I'm a huge basketball (Knicks), football/NFL (Giants), and combat sports (boxing/MMA) fan. Shit, I'll even watch soccer/futbol (only championship matches/World Cup).

But I'm not a fan of hockey or baseball in the least.. So I leave it alone. Not much more to it than that.

To the anti-football ppl, if you don't get it, you won't get it, so just leave it at that, and stick to what you like. :confusedshrug:

[magnax1]

Football bores the shit out of me too. There must only be 10% of play time during a broadcast. You can say that makes it more strategic, but a game doesn't have to stop and start to be strategic. Basketball can be very strategic. I also don't like that it's not as skill based in most positions as a lot of other sports.
I just like free flowing sports like bball and Soccer much more then football and baseball.

[RedBlackAttack]

Football bores the shit out of me too. There must only be 10% of play time during a broadcast. You can say that makes it more strategic, but a game doesn't have to stop and start to be strategic. Basketball can be very strategic. I also don't like that it's not as skill based in most positions as a lot of other sports.
I just like free flowing sports like bball and Soccer much more then football and baseball.
And, there it is... :facepalm

You can like the more free flowing sports all you want. That is your choice as a consumer. But, again... To complain about the single element that makes American football a unique sport...

Just say you don't like it.

[magnax1]

And, there it is...
What did I say that is not true? If you don't mind watching a game that stops and starts like that, it's fine. I do mind it though. I liked playing football when I was young, but watching it bores the living shit out of me.

[RedBlackAttack]

What did I say that is not true? If you don't mind watching a game that stops and starts like that, it's fine. I do mind it though. I liked playing football when I was young, but watching it bores the living shit out of me.
Read the edit. And my post above.

[magnax1]

Read the edit. And my post above.
I don't give a shit if it makes it unique, it doesn't make it less boring for me. I don't care if you like it, but don't tell me that because it makes it unique I can't say it bores me. It does. The reason football is boring is because there is so little action. That is a fact to me.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't give a shit if it makes it unique, it doesn't make it less boring for me. I don't care if you like it, but don't tell me that because it makes it unique I can't say it bores me. It does. The reason football is boring is because there is so little action. That is a fact to me.
Ok. So, you don't like the game of American football. Fine.

But, without the stoppages and the strategy and the short bursts of athleticism, it is a totally different game. And, when people say things like, "I don't like it because of the stoppages," I would point you toward Aussie football. There are sports out there that will suit your tastes if you like the game but just don't like the stoppages.

The other thing that the huddles and stoppages in-between plays allows... Aside from the obvious strategic chess matches that go on between coaching staffs and players, guys are able to go all-out at 100-percent speed on every play when you have the stoppages.

The difference between American football and, say, Aussie football (which is continuous) is basically the difference between a marathon and a sprint. You can't run a marathon with the same kind of all-out burst of speed that you do in a 100-meter dash.

In football, one of the reasons that the collisions are so violent and the guys move so quickly is that they are able to use that short burst of energy/athleticism and then huddle. Without the break, the game isn't as violent and the players wouldn't be even close to as explosive.

It is just a totally different game without stoppages... So, instead of saying "I don't like the stoppages," just say you don't like the game.

It sounds as silly as when someone complains about not enough scoring in futbol.

[magnax1]

Ok. So, you don't like the game of American football. Fine.

But, without the stoppages and the strategy and the short bursts of athleticism, it is a totally different game. And, when people say things like, "I don't like it because of the stoppages," I would point you toward Aussie football. There are sports out there that will suit your tastes if you like the game but just don't like the stoppages.

The other thing that the huddles and stoppages in-between plays allows... Aside from the obvious strategic chess matches that go on between coaching staffs and players, guys are able to go all-out at 100-percent speed on every play when you have the stoppages.

The difference between American football and, say, Aussie football (which is continuous) is basically the difference between a marathon and a sprint. You can't run a marathon with the same kind of all-out burst of speed that you do in a 100-meter dash.

In football, one of the reasons that the collisions are so violent and the guys move so quickly is that they are able to use that short burst of energy/athleticism and then huddle. Without the break, the game isn't as violent and the players wouldn't be even close to as explosive.

It is just a totally different game without stoppages.
I never asked for the game to be changed. I know people like it that way, but I don't. I do like Rugby a bit, though I would never watch it as much as basketball or soccer.
And complaining about scoring in soccer isn't silly. Some people don't like that. So what?

[t-rex]

Look, you said that Canadian hockey teams are not important in the grand scheme of things because they don't generate enough money for the NHL. I provided proof that indeed they do provide a hell lot of money, 33% of 1.2 billion dollars from tickets revenue come from Canadian teams, approximately 400 millions from only 6 teams. This year they've relocated the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg and apparently the Winnipeg Jets sold out all of their games, which means another increase in ticket revenue from Canada.

Now I see that after I've proved you wrong, you changed your stance. Since you won't provide me with any numbers on the NHL revenue and its recently signed tv deal with NBC, then I will. The NHL has signed a $2 billion contract per 10 years with NBC, meaning $200 milion/year and $6.6 milion/team.

I think there's a significant difference between the two amounts of money and anybody, even you, can see that.

Btw, I think you're the one who need to do his homework, because like I said in my previous post, you were clearly talking out of your ass, since I bet you didn't even know that the NHL is a "gate-driven league", where ticket revenue accounts for close to half of the league's total revenue. Unlike the NFL, there are no huge Tv-deals and sponsorship contracts that provide teams with billions of dollars, so I think you should stick to your field of work instead of trying to provide an economical analysis for North-American sports.

:oldlol:


The NHL has a 2 billion dollar TV deal over 10 years, or 200 million dollars per year. Right?

Now its time for the big boys.

The NFL recently closed a deal with NBC, CBS and FOX that is worth 27 billion dollars over 9 years. The NFL has also resigned with ESPN for 2 billion dollars per year. Direct TV pays the NFL 1 billion dollars per year for exclusive rights to its Sunday NFL ticket package. Thats more than 54 billion dollars in 9 years before one ticket is printed just in TV rights fees with the major networks.

All told, the NFL will rake in nearly 7 billion dollars EACH YEAR in TV/radio broadcasting rights alone. This means that it takes about 4 games in one season for the NFL to produce the revenue that the NHL takes 10 years to generate in TV rights fees.

Each year every NFL team will collect 200 million dollars in revenue before one ticket is sold or jersey is printed.

Here's another way of looking at this.

Imagine if the NHL took all of its revenue each year... and gave it to one team! That's how the NFL rolls. No other sports league on the planet can come close.

Now the reason why the NFL can literally burn money is because of TV ratings. NFL TV ratings are downright gross in their size and scope. No other sports league in the country can compare. (And certainly not hockey).

High TV ratings generate revenue. All other revenue streams are secondary and becoming increasingly less important (yes that includes attendance) to a major sports bottom line.

Hockey does not compete with the NFL because it doesn't get good TV ratings. The NHL needs better TV ratings to generate larger audiences so that it can increase its rights fees, and thus make more money.

TV ratings are conclusive in that even for a sport like the NHL, ratings are higher when non-Canadian teams participate. Its simple common sense. The New York Rangers and Philadelphia Flyers will draw a larger audience than the Toronto Maple Leafs vs the Montreal Canadians.

Look, its really not that hard to understand.:confusedshrug:

Its nothing personal. Its nothing against Canada. Its a beautiful country. But in the grand scope of things, the NHL benefits more if American teams are doing well instead of Canadian squads. Regardless of how well Canadian teams are doing at the gate.

You should get a subscription to Forbes Magazine or Sports Business Daily. Both organizations do a wonderful job reporting on sports business. It would be real helpful to you.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/12/14/the-nfl-signs-tv-deals-worth-26-billion/

Again its nothing personal. Nobody is attacking you. Its just simple math.

[west_tip]

I'll watch pretty much any sport and would identify my favourite team sports as:

1. Soccer/Football
2. Basketball
3. Am Football = Rugby

The one sport I never got into was Ice Hockey. The gameplay lacks structure and strategy to my untrained eyes. Far too chaotic. However I greatly respect the players they are tough, skildull mother****ers.

[RedBlackAttack]

I never asked for the game to be changed. I know people like it that way, but I don't. I do like Rugby a bit, though I would never watch it as much as basketball or soccer.
And complaining about scoring in soccer isn't silly. Some people don't like that. So what?
Some people don't like soccer... you're right.

But, again, the thing that makes the game for the people who do love it -- the crazy build-ups to goals that sometimes take a long time -- is what people who don't know much about the game complain about (not enough scoring).

Personally, I like both sports. I appreciate both marathons and sprints.

[NumberSix]

NFL fans are the best.
Is that a Jets avatar? How the heck can you be a Jets/Lakers fan? :roll:

[UtahJazzFan88]

Is that a Jets avatar? How the heck can you be a Jets/Lakers fan? :roll:

I'm pretty sure he's a Nets fan...

[tomtucker]

Sorry, but it makes no sense that it's popular.

Fans are super far away from the action at live games.

All the players have their faces covered.

You don't get to see strange/interesting situations, like a Quarterback defending a Wide Receiver (unlike the NBA where switches can happen all the time).

Your favorite players don't play the majority of the game because of the offense/defense team difference.

Every play lasts about 2 seconds with another 20 seconds of standing around.

Seriously, I don't get it.

also, the defensive players are mostly obese.... while wearing skin tight jerseys and pants........shudder........how can it be number 1 sport.....:confusedshrug:

[RedBlackAttack]

also, the defensive players are mostly obese.... while wearing skin tight jerseys and pants........shudder........how can it be number 1 sport.....:confusedshrug:
Absurdity. All the way around. Your post and his.

Why don't QBs have to defend WRs? WTF am I reading?

[ihoopallday]

Sport with most fans globally:Soccer

In the United States: Football. Only reason I think football gets so many high tv ratings is because of the amount of games played. C'mon, NBA regularly has 82 games before the playoffs! You can't expect every game to have a huge following.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sport with most fans globally:Soccer

In the United States: Football. Only reason I think football gets so many high tv ratings is because of the amount of games played. C'mon, NBA regularly has 82 games before the playoffs! You can't expect every game to have a huge following.
Pretty sure that regular season NFL games blow NBA playoff games away in terms of ratings. Nothing comes close to the NFL.

America loves football. That is the reason.


EDIT: Just looked it up. The NBA Finals last year averaged 17.3 million viewers over its six games.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/14/nba-finals-2011-ratings-g_n_876964.html

NFL regular season games in 2011 averaged 17.5 million viewers... regular season.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5206_Must_See_TV:_NFL_games_dominated_ratings_i n_2011.html

[jbryan1984]

So, would that be Tuslaw?



Well, football is way more popular than anything in America, so it isn't just basketball that takes a backseat. Everything takes a backseat.

And, basketball takes a backseat to futboll ie soccer overseas.


Yep, Tuslaw. Surprised you have heard of it.

[B-Easy8]

Baseball is probably the most boring sport ever. I don't understand how anyone watches it.

Being from Australia that's the only helpful thought I can contribute to this discussion.

[wagexslave]

Baseball is probably the most boring sport ever. I don't understand how anyone watches it.

Being from Australia that's the only helpful thought I can contribute to this discussion.
This. I can watch the 8th+9th inning, but f*** watching the first 7.

[goldenryan]

Was it just me or was the nhl bigger than mlb in the 90s. Atleast from 93-98. Nhl in the 2000s had the problem of having too many bad markets winning the cup (tampa anaheim carolina)

[t-rex]

Was it just me or was the nhl bigger than mlb in the 90s. Atleast from 93-98. Nhl in the 2000s had the problem of having too many bad markets winning the cup (tampa anaheim carolina)


The NHL has never been close to MLB. Even post the strike in the early 90s that cost MLB the World Series, it was still more popular than the NHL. The NHL really is just a niche sport in America.

[Hittin_Shots]

Baseball is constantly on Espn here... I've never met a person who follows it here... ****in shits me, we get like 3 playoff games a week and have to deal with this boring shit constantly.

[t-rex]

Baseball is constantly on Espn here... I've never met a person who follows it here... ****in shits me, we get like 3 playoff games a week and have to deal with this boring shit constantly.


Baseball is really over covered based on its TV ratings. I have even heard ESPN hosts admit that because the head ESPN honchos all live in Connecticut, they are influenced by their regional surroundings, and thus baseball gets more coverage than is warranted based on its national following.

I suppose if ESPN were based in Alabama, you would see College football over covered.

[Hittin_Shots]

Baseball is really over covered based on its TV ratings. I have even heard ESPN hosts admit that because the head ESPN honchos all live in Connecticut, they are influenced by their regional surroundings, and thus baseball gets more coverage than is warranted based on its national following.

I suppose if ESPN were based in Alabama, you would see College football over covered.

They aired every college basketball game and plenty of high school games but barely get to see nba on tv...

[c3z4r]

:oldlol:


The NHL has a 2 billion dollar TV deal over 10 years, or 200 million dollars per year. Right?

Now its time for the big boys.

The NFL recently closed a deal with NBC, CBS and FOX that is worth 27 billion dollars over 9 years. The NFL has also resigned with ESPN for 2 billion dollars per year. Direct TV pays the NFL 1 billion dollars per year for exclusive rights to its Sunday NFL ticket package. Thats more than 54 billion dollars in 9 years before one ticket is printed just in TV rights fees with the major networks.

All told, the NFL will rake in nearly 7 billion dollars EACH YEAR in TV/radio broadcasting rights alone. This means that it takes about 4 games in one season for the NFL to produce the revenue that the NHL takes 10 years to generate in TV rights fees.

Each year every NFL team will collect 200 million dollars in revenue before one ticket is sold or jersey is printed.

Here's another way of looking at this.

Imagine if the NHL took all of its revenue each year... and gave it to one team! That's how the NFL rolls. No other sports league on the planet can come close.

Now the reason why the NFL can literally burn money is because of TV ratings. NFL TV ratings are downright gross in their size and scope. No other sports league in the country can compare. (And certainly not hockey).

High TV ratings generate revenue. All other revenue streams are secondary and becoming increasingly less important (yes that includes attendance) to a major sports bottom line.

Hockey does not compete with the NFL because it doesn't get good TV ratings. The NHL needs better TV ratings to generate larger audiences so that it can increase its rights fees, and thus make more money.

TV ratings are conclusive in that even for a sport like the NHL, ratings are higher when non-Canadian teams participate. Its simple common sense. The New York Rangers and Philadelphia Flyers will draw a larger audience than the Toronto Maple Leafs vs the Montreal Canadians.

Look, its really not that hard to understand.:confusedshrug:

Its nothing personal. Its nothing against Canada. Its a beautiful country. But in the grand scope of things, the NHL benefits more if American teams are doing well instead of Canadian squads. Regardless of how well Canadian teams are doing at the gate.

You should get a subscription to Forbes Magazine or Sports Business Daily. Both organizations do a wonderful job reporting on sports business. It would be real helpful to you.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/12/14/the-nfl-signs-tv-deals-worth-26-billion/

Again its nothing personal. Nobody is attacking you. Its just simple math.


First of all, check my location.

Second of all, wtf are you talking about? The way you avoid all my arguments simply enforces the fact that you are clueless about what you're talking about.

Let me recap everything from the beginning, try to follow:

-you analyzed the big 4
-while talking about hockey, you said that canadian teams are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, ergo the NHL could go without.
-I came with hard proof that without Canadian teams it's very possible that the NHL wouldn't even exist or at least not be part of the big 4 American sports.
-you changed subject to the NFL even though the argument was about Canadian teams and their impact on the NHL.

Now my question is, will you simply admit the fact that you had no idea what you were talking about or will you try to write up another subject deflecting rant/ argument that in no way whatsoever debunks or even attempts to contradict the facts I've presented you with?