2013 Derrick Rose or 2013 Kyrie Irving

[Foster5k]

Which one will be better?

[chips93]

this has been discussed to death, and nothing has changed since it was last discussed, so i dont see why it needs to be brought up again.

[Mr. Incredible]

D Rose

[Clippersfan86]

I can't tell you who will be better this coming season but what I can say is I'd take Kyrie without thinking twice. I want my PG to actually you know... play point guard. Kyrie's PG instincts/skill set blow Rose out of the water.

[noob cake]

I can't tell you who will be better this coming season but what I can say is I'd take Kyrie without thinking twice. I want my PG to actually you know... play point guard. Kyrie's PG instincts/skill set blow Rose out of the water.

+Rose might never be same after his injury. You take the healthy player with better IQ, shooting and PG skills.

[scm5]

If you asked me to draft one of these two today, in their current condition... I would choose Kyrie.

I have no idea how Rose is going to respond to his ACL tear and even if both were healthy, Kyrie has the possibility of being the better overall player.

Had it been before Rose went down with the blown knee, I would take Rose over Kyrie simply because Rose was proven. Now, I'd go with the healthy one that has major upside.

[ballinhun8]

I can't tell you who will be better this coming season but what I can say is I'd take Kyrie without thinking twice. I want my PG to actually you know... play point guard. Kyrie's PG instincts/skill set blow Rose out of the water.




Do you want him to play PG or win games??


Rose has never had a losing team and made the playoffs in each of his seasons in the NBA. Not many top pick PG's can say that.

[Clippersfan86]

+Rose might never be same after his injury. You take the healthy player with better IQ, shooting and PG skills.

Exactly. Rose has become D Wade 2.0. Reckless playstyle is catching up to him in the way of nonstop injuries. Then you look at Kyrie's IQ+shooting+PG skills as you said. I think Kyrie actually has a top 5 player upside which is about where Rose is at.

[Pointguard]

LOL, why would anybody ask a question about comparing an injured player to a healthy one. A guy in crutches vs a healthy one? Its like you have to confirm some crazy nonsense in your head to ask that question. In what sport can you even imagine that in?

[Stern]

Kyrie Irving since Rose isn't going to be back until February and and will need a year to get his form back.

[Pointguard]

I'd take Kyrie without thinking twice. I want my PG to actually you know... play point guard.

I'm curious why? Pure point guard has rarely ever shown much value in the NBA. Championship teams and most contenders don't sport them much. The best players are usually wing players that man the point position. Tony Parker, Wade, Kobe, Billups, Lebron, Jordan, Pippen etc.. Deron Williams and CP3 are the purest pg's out there but Tony Parker and D Rose have taken their teams deeper in the playoffs and win more in general even though, all of them have had offensively challenged teams. I would definitely call D Rose and Tony Parker winners.

[Alamo]

Derrick Rose

[28renyoy]

I'd take 2013 Kyrie Irving over any form of Derrick Rose

[Stern]

I'm curious why? Pure point guard has rarely ever shown much value in the NBA. Championship teams and most contenders don't sport them much. The best players are usually wing players that man the point position. Tony Parker, Wade, Kobe, Billups, Lebron, Jordan, Pippen etc.. Deron Williams and CP3 are the purest pg's out there but Tony Parker and D Rose have taken their teams deeper in the playoffs and win more in general even though, all of them have had offensively challenged teams. I would definitely call D Rose and Tony Parker winners.
What has Derrick Rose won to be labeled as a 'winner'?

[Pointguard]

Kyrie doesn't have an MVP vote, played or won a playoff game, or come close to a winning season so why is he being compared to Rose - an MVP?

Kyrie's appropiate comparison is D Will once he achieves some success. For now he hasn't proven he's definitively better than Wall. If you want an established player comparison that was healthy and close to D Rose in style of play - go for Westbrook, whom, I guarantee will burn Kyrie next year and lock him down in the process.

I like Kyrie and wish him well and think he can be a top three PG in four years, but he's unproven for now and shouldn't be hyped over his head. I saw Shumpert totally shut Kyrie down and it was a thorough job. So he's still not in the top tier and hasn't been really challenged yet.

[LBJMVP]

Kyrie doesn't have an MVP vote, played or won a playoff game, or come close to a winning season so why is he being compared to Rose - an MVP?

Kyrie's appropiate comparison is D Will once he achieves some success. For now he hasn't proven he's definitively better than Wall. If you want an established player comparison that was healthy and close to D Rose in style of play - go for Westbrook, whom, I guarantee will burn Kyrie next year and lock him down in the process.

I like Kyrie and wish him well and think he can be a top three PG in four years, but he's unproven for now and shouldn't be hyped over his head. I saw Shumpert totally shut Kyrie down and it was a thorough job. So he's still not in the top tier and hasn't been really challenged yet.


kyrie also doesn't have a torn ACL... which is what makes this thread a bad comparison. rose won't even be back till midway through the season.


but i'd take kyrie regardless, im a cleveland fan so of course i wouldn't want anyone else.

[Pointguard]

What has Derrick Rose won to be labeled as a 'winner'?
Cause he took and offensively challenged team, that was new to each other, new to their system, new to their coach, suffered key injuries, to the best record in the league, while dominating elite teams for four months in an age of super teams. He also won a couple of rounds in the playoffs.

[Pointguard]

kyrie also doesn't have a torn ACL... which is what makes this thread a bad comparison. rose won't even be back till midway through the season.


but i'd take kyrie regardless, im a cleveland fan so of course i wouldn't want anyone else.
I don't blame you. He will be the future at the position and I wish my team had him.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Do you want him to play PG or win games??


Rose has never had a losing team and made the playoffs in each of his seasons in the NBA. Not many top pick PG's can say that.

Well, he got drafted onto a decent team that only had a 1.7% chance of getting the top pick. Not many number one overall picks can say that.

[RedBlackAttack]

go for Westbrook, whom, I guarantee will burn Kyrie next year and lock him down in the process.
Just as an FYI, the Cavs played the Thunder once this past season in OKC and Kyrie thoroughly outplayed Westbrook down the stretch, taking over the game in the last five minutes and beating him off of the dribble several times to lead an undermanned Cavs team to victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBdFj3iPEvA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUa2ARgUSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkaiZTDxvyQ

If you want to say that Kyrie still has something to prove, I will agree with you. But, to say that he is going to get "locked up" by Westbrook... It didn't happen this year and won't happen next year. Westbrook, Rondo, DWill... Kyrie had great games against all of them.

[Tenchi Ryu]

I'm not even so quick to think he will take so long to get back into form. With the technology as advanced as it is today, his chances are looking a lot better. Then add the fact we don't even know how bad a tear it was. We have one case of Rose at least barely being able to walk off the court compared to Shumpert who couldn't walk whatsoever and had to be carried off. So it wouldn't be silly to assume Rose's wasn't as bad as it could have been.

And when he comes back, all he has to do is play like he did this year. Spend the first 3 quarters facilitating, drop some occasional 3 pointers and drives, then go into MVP mode in the 4th. That will put a lot less stress on his body compared to playing MVP Hero mode all 4 quarters like 2011.

[Pointguard]

Just as an FYI, the Cavs played the Thunder once this past season in OKC and Kyrie thoroughly outplayed Westbrook down the stretch, taking over the game in the last five minutes and beating him off of the dribble several times to lead an undermanned Cavs team to victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBdFj3iPEvA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUa2ARgUSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkaiZTDxvyQ

If you want to say that Kyrie still has something to prove, I will agree with you. But, to say that he is going to get "locked up" by Westbrook... It didn't happen this year and won't happen next year. Westbrook, Rondo, DWill... Kyrie had great games against all of them.
I was aware of what happened this year. But next year Westbrook will be aware of him - I think, in general players didn't circle dates on their calander because the games were too convoluted. And Westbrook can play some serious D when he wants to tune in. This is of course if the coach will put him on Kyrie - Westbrook doesn't really guard Rose when they play. I do think Kyrie has among the highest ceilings for PG's but its fair that he has to work himself up the ladder.

Rose was compared to all of the elite one by one and he proved himself straight up the ladder to the point last year where if you compared him to another point guard that guarded him in a game - you knew who won the matchup. And then he won MVP on top of it. Kyrie is still in the proving stage. When CP3 and DWill came up together - one year CP was better, the next year DWill and it changed every year for awhile. Kyrie could be like that with Wall for all we know.

Yeah, the clutch gene seems to be in Kyrie as well. He can be very complete and very outstanding at the same time.

[Tenchi Ryu]

I can't tell you who will be better this coming season but what I can say is I'd take Kyrie without thinking twice. I want my PG to actually you know... play point guard. Kyrie's PG instincts/skill set blow Rose out of the water.
Such a ignorant post.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[BGriffin's Dad]

the one who won't be sitting out 50%+ of the season due to chronic injury

Kyrie Irving

[GOBB]

Rose, not even another option here. Yes I'm confident Rose will bounce back from injury.


I can't tell you who will be better this coming season but what I can say is I'd take Kyrie without thinking twice. I want my PG to actually you know... play point guard. Kyrie's PG instincts/skill set blow Rose out of the water.

Kyrie Irving is as much of a scorer as Derrick Rose. What are you babbling about? I love when people act like Irving is this natural playmaking ball distributor. He does a good job but has way more room for improvement in this area. His claim to fame has been his scoring/shooting not his "PG" play.

[nathanjizzle]

Exactly. Rose has become D Wade 2.0. Reckless playstyle is catching up to him in the way of nonstop injuries. Then you look at Kyrie's IQ+shooting+PG skills as you said. I think Kyrie actually has a top 5 player upside which is about where Rose is at.

what do you know about basketball? you almost died tearing your MCL playing by yourself.

[Punpun]

THere will be no 2013 Rose. So yep, 2013 Irving will be better.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I would have taken Kyrie before Rose even tore his ACL.

[chips93]

I would have taken Kyrie before Rose even tore his ACL.

well then you're an idiot

[SilkkTheShocker]

well then you're an idiot


Get off my nuts, clown.

[returnofthemack]

LOL, why would anybody ask a question about comparing an injured player to a healthy one. A guy in crutches vs a healthy one? Its like you have to confirm some crazy nonsense in your head to ask that question. In what sport can you even imagine that in?


the thing about this is kyrie missed quite a few games this year bc of injuries.
sure rose just suffered a major injury but acting like kyrie is proven healthy and can take a 82 game season is a little out there right now.

im a cavs fan. i would have taken kyrie before the injury to rose.

in order for the cavs to really improve thompson needs to have a breakout year next year and they need either davis orsomeone who can create their own shot in the draft.

[I.Malcolm]

the one who won't be sitting out 50%+ of the season due to chronic injury

Kyrie Irving
Chronic?

Are you retarded :biggums:

[Tenchi Ryu]

Chronic?

Are you retarded :biggums:
He thinks Griffin has a legit case as MVP....take a wild guess.

[RedBlackAttack]

the thing about this is kyrie missed quite a few games this year bc of injuries.
A couple of things you have to keep in mind...

1. None of the injuries to Kyrie were serious. The biggest concern coming into the season was his toe issue at Duke and that was totally fine all season (according to him). He missed a couple of games due to a concussion, then missed a few because he was sick and then there was the shoulder thing that was purposely approached with extreme caution because, quite frankly, we needed to improve our draft position. If we were fighting for a playoff spot, I'm pretty positive he would have returned shortly after that "injury."

2. Even the most durable players in the league took some time off at some point during that ridiculously condensed schedule. I don't see him missing some games at the end of the season playing for a team in tank-mode as anything to really make note of.

For the first 2/3 of the season, he was very durable. It wasn't until we needed to go into tank mode that he missed anything resembling substantial time. The one concern I had with Kyrie when he was drafted was durability. After his first season, at least, it is no longer a concern to me.

[B-Easy8]

I can't believe people are so high or Irving.

Rose was last season's MVP and look at his team without him now, they are about to get bounced by the #8 seeded 76ers. Since when did Irving become more of a PG than Rose? Irving is a shoot first PG just like Rose.

[RedBlackAttack]

I can't believe people are so high or Irving.

Rose was last season's MVP and look at his team without him now, they are about to get bounced by the #8 seeded 76ers. Since when did Irving become more of a PG than Rose? Irving is a shoot first PG just like Rose.
In his last full month of playing prior to the injury that basically ended his season, he averaged 19.9 points on 46% shooting, 6.7 assists, 5.0 rebounds, 1.5 steals and 0.7 blocks.

Also, the best two offensive players that he had on the team at the time were Jamison and Alonzo Gee... And a huge drop off after that.

Kyrie was a scorer this past season because he had to be a scorer. In order for the Cavs to have any chance of winning, he had to put up big scoring numbers. However, even with the incredibly limited offensive talent around him, three months into his rookie year he was essentially averaging 7 assists per game.

As I watched his game evolve over the course of his first full season, I have very little doubt that he will eventually be a lot closer to Chris Paul than Derrick Rose at the height of his career.

[LBJMVP]

I can't believe people are so high or Irving.

Rose was last season's MVP and look at his team without him now, they are about to get bounced by the #8 seeded 76ers. Since when did Irving become more of a PG than Rose? Irving is a shoot first PG just like Rose.

rose averaged less than 1 assist more than kyrie in there rookie season, and rose played 7 minutes more per game....

kyrie in the month of march this season when he was peaking... right before he got injured.

19.9/6.7/5


you take a look at kyrie's teammates lately? tough to get assist when your second best player gets injured for the season in February, and your third best players is a black hole on offense (jamison). not even close to a decent center on the team, and the best shooter is and old ass anthony parker.

[LBJMVP]

In his last full month of playing prior to the injury that basically ended his season, he averaged 19.9 points on 46% shooting, 6.7 assists, 5.0 rebounds, 1.5 steals and 0.7 blocks.

Also, the best two offensive players that he had on the team at the time were Jamison and Alonzo Gee... And a huge drop off after that.

Kyrie was a scorer this past season because he had to be a scorer. In order for the Cavs to have any chance of winning, he had to put up big scoring numbers. However, even with the incredibly limited offensive talent around him, three months into his rookie year he was essentially averaging 7 assists per game.

As I watched his game evolve over the course of his first full season, I have very little doubt that he will eventually be a lot closer to Chris Paul than Derrick Rose at the height of his career.

we pretty much just wrote the same thing at almost the same time... :lol

[RedBlackAttack]

we pretty much just wrote the same thing at almost the same time... :lol
That was weird.

[B-Easy8]

rose averaged less than 1 assist more than kyrie in there rookie season, and rose played 7 minutes more per game....

kyrie in the month of march this season when he was peaking... right before he got injured.

19.9/6.7/5


you take a look at kyrie's teammates lately? tough to get assist when your second best player gets injured for the season in February, and your third best players is a black hole on offense (jamison). not even close to a decent center on the team, and the best shooter is and old ass anthony parker.

I don't care at all for stats, Rose took a terrible offensive team to the playoffs in his rookie year. What exactly did Irving do? He played well but don't compare him to Rose.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't care at all for stats, Rose took a terrible offensive team to the playoffs in his rookie year. What exactly did Irving do? Ah cool he put up slightly worse stats.
You said that you don't care at all about statistics, but then you made it a point to note Rose's "slightly better stats." Make up your mind.

[EnoughSaid]

It depends. Do I need a scorer or a facilitator that would make everyone better? Solely on what you need is how you make your pick.

[B-Easy8]

You said that you don't care at all about statistics, but then you made it a point to note Rose's "slightly better stats." Make up your mind.

I meant it as a point to the guy who was bringing up stats to fuel his argument, even though Rose had better stats in his rookie year.

[RedBlackAttack]

I meant it as a point to the guy who was bringing up stats to fuel his argument, even though Rose had better stats in his rookie year.

I'm not sure how you have just deduced that 16.8/6.3/3.9 on 47.5/79/22 in 37 minutes is better than 18.5/5.4/3.7 on 47/40/87 in 30.5 minutes.

Then, you can get into the advanced statistics, which all favor Irving.

PER
Irving - 21.4
Rose - 16.0

TS%
Irving - 56.6
Rose - 51.6

eFG%
Irving - 51.7
Rose - 48.2

How are Rose's statistics slightly better than Kyrie's?


Also, Rose wasn't introduced into an NBA with a ridiculously condensed 66-game season, during which double-headers and even triple-headers were totally frequent... Which also accounts for the differential in minutes, because you couldn't possibly expect a 19-year-old rookie to step in and play 38 minutes a night with this ridiculous schedule.

In context, Kyrie's numbers are pretty amazing.

Btw, the Bulls' winning percentage the year before Rose got there was 40.2-percent. His rookie year, it was 50-percent. That is a 8.8% increase.

The Cavs' winning percentage the year before Kyrie arrived was 23.2-percent. His rookie year, it was 31.8-percent. That is an increase of 8.6%... And, that isn't even correcting the statistics for games that Kyrie didn't play in, which would kick the winning percentage increase up over 10%.

We should absolutely take into account what was already on the team. I'm not sure why that is irrelevant. The Bulls were already a pretty decent team before Rose arrived. That is reflected in their record.

Factor in that Kyrie lost the far and away second best player on his team before the All-Star break and that Cavs' roster becomes even more bleak.

Look, I like Rose. He's one of the very best players in the NBA when he is healthy. But, Kyrie just had a great rookie season... Not good or very good... Great. He was even in the Top 5 in the league in fourth quarter scoring and, during his last month healthy, he was No. 1 in the league in fourth quarter scoring.

I thought he was going to be very good and he blew even my expectations away. So, this isn't a slight toward Rose... Kyrie had a fantastic season regardless of what matrix you try to use to judge it.

[Lebron23]

Irving won via Default. Let's see next season a healthy Rose vs. Kyrie Irving in his junior season.

[KDthunderup]

When the hell is Rose coming back? Shumpert is back already and is gaining confidence whilst Rose's rehab seems to be going slow.

[Djahjaga]

Exactly. Rose has become D Wade 2.0. Reckless playstyle is catching up to him in the way of nonstop injuries. Then you look at Kyrie's IQ+shooting+PG skills as you said. I think Kyrie actually has a top 5 player upside which is about where Rose is at.

Rose PG skills > Kyrie PG skills

[KOBE143]

When the hell is Rose coming back? Shumpert is back already and is gaining confidence whilst Rose's rehab seems to be going slow.
He's not yet 110% healthy.. Just let the Dude take his time.. No one want to watch DRose not 110% ready just to suck in game like Howard.. Dude is young, he still has his time just wait patiently..