Ending the Kobe is clutch myth

[28renyoy]

Here is the truth

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Regular season 5 point or less game
549-1371 40.04 FG% 96-331 29.0 3P%

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Postseason 5 point or less game
86-219 39.3 FG% 12-42 28.7 3P%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Regular Season less than 30 seconds left
48-155 30.96%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Postseason less than 30 seconds left
7-23 30.4%

Game winning/tying shots Regular season less than 5 seconds left
25-85 29.4 FG%

Game winning/tying shots Postseason less than 5 seconds left
3-14 21.4 FG%


From what I can see, Kobe's legacy as a clutch player really exploded back in 2009-10 because he went 6-11 on game winners in 1 season. He was considered "clutch" for a few playoff games during the early 2000's, but never really for his 4th quarter explosions/game winners. He had 1 great year and then he was touted as one of the GOAT clutch players. This is simply not the case.

[DTreats]

No one cares bitch

[gtfomyface]

so guys why is kobe so damn clutch :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Da GAWD

[28renyoy]

so guys why is kobe so damn clutch :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Da GAWD

I know right...the god must have realized how much help he had winning titles, so he decided to help other teams win as well by "taking over" in the 4th quarter :lol

[SunsCaptain]

Can i post this here?

All playoff stats.

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.

:lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

too gay; didn't read

[lbj23clutch]

Mamba> KD in the clutch. :cheers:

[LBJMVP]

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

-Michael Jordan

[imdaman99]

fcuk yo stats. i see what i need to with my eyes

[Kobe 4 The Win]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/Effyou.jpg

[28renyoy]

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

-Michael Jordan

How is shooting sub 30% on game winners succeeding? The standard Lakers offense scores on 46% of its possessions used scoring :lol

Just run the ball in a set offense

But Kobe wants to play hero ball like Mike, yet he fails in comparison with Jordan.

I also love the deflecting ITT

[I<3NBA]

fcuk yo stats. i see what i need to with my eyes
your eyes deceive you.

but Durant is not clutch too. only one basketball player can be called clutch. we all know who he is. Kobe tries to imitate him though but fail miserably. the one, the only, the savior of mankind - his Airness, Michael Jordan.

okay, no need to give a standing ovation. Jordan knows you're just a human watching a god.

[LBJMVP]

How is shooting sub 30% on game winners succeeding? The standard Lakers offense scores on 46% of its possessions used scoring :lol

Just run the ball in a set offense

But Kobe wants to play hero ball like Mike, yet he fails in comparison with Jordan.

I also love the deflecting ITT


when you take that many game winning shots you aren't gonna be shooting in the 40 percentile. game winners are the hardest shots in all of basketball.

what was MJ's percentage on game winners?

do you expect people to shoot game winners with the same consistently of regular field goals? :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Here is the truth

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Regular season 5 point or less game
549-1371 40.04 FG% 96-331 29.0 3P%

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Postseason 5 point or less game
86-219 39.3 FG% 12-42 28.7 3P%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Regular Season less than 30 seconds left
48-155 30.96%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Postseason less than 30 seconds left
7-23 30.4%

Game winning/tying shots Regular season less than 5 seconds left
25-85 29.4 FG%

Game winning/tying shots Postseason less than 5 seconds left
3-14 21.4 FG%


From what I can see, Kobe's legacy as a clutch player really exploded back in 2009-10 because he went 6-11 on game winners in 1 season. He was considered "clutch" for a few playoff games during the early 2000's, but never really for his 4th quarter explosions/game winners. He had 1 great year and then he was touted as one of the GOAT clutch players. This is simply not the case.

The bold has to actually be good though. Especially the regular season game winners with less than 5 seconds left. That is way above league average....

[28renyoy]

when you take that many game winning shots you aren't gonna be shooting in the 40 percentile. game winners are the hardest shots in all of basketball.

what was MJ's percentage on game winners?

do you expect people to shoot game winners with the same consistently of regular field goals? :roll:

Yes I do if the offense is run correctly. Otherwise why the hell are you letting someone play ISO and lose games?

Kobe is hailed as being clutch

Clutch-done or accomplished in a critical situation

The truth is that he is no better than average in such situations.

[talkingconch]

So that must be why 98% of players, sports analysts, experts would STILL take him in the clutch.

LOL!

[28renyoy]

The bold has to actually be good though. Especially the regular season game winners with less than 5 seconds left. That is way above league average....

Hardly. It's not much better than LeBron, who is shooting 24% in such situations.

Carmelo is someone who is truly clutch, albeit nowhere near as good the other 47 minutes

He is 29-61 in the final 5 seconds, or 47.5%

[DMAVS41]

Hardly. It's not much better than LeBron, who is shooting 24% in such situations.

Carmelo is someone who is truly clutch, albeit nowhere near as good the other 47 minutes

He is 29-61 in the final 5 seconds, or 47.5%

Why wouldn't you just use the accepted game winning metric of 24 seconds or less...shots to tie or take the lead?

5 seconds or less seems too narrow. I would want more data and there is obviously a reason why the 24 seconds or less is the accepted criteria.

Or do both....

[LakersReign]

So that must be why 98% of players, sports analysts, experts would STILL take him in the clutch.

LOL!


Of course, OP ignores that, since it pretty much kills his so called "argument." Big surprise:sleeping

[28renyoy]

So that must be why 98% of players, sports analysts, experts would STILL take him in the clutch.

LOL!

Your point? Popularity=effectiveness? I guess you also think the person elected president is the absolute best person for the position in the country, correct?

[DMAVS41]

Of course, OP ignores that, since it pretty much kills his so called "argument." Big surprise:sleeping

That doesn't "kill" anything...that is just perception.

The facts are what the facts are.

We just now need to compare Kobe's numbers to other players. My guess is that Kobe will compare well.

I'd love to see how Wade, Dirk, Lebron, Pierce, Paul, and Carmelo compare on the same stats.

[LBJMVP]

Why wouldn't you just use the accepted game winning metric of 24 seconds or less...shots to tie or take the lead?

5 seconds or less seems too narrow. I would want more data and there is obviously a reason why the 24 seconds or less is the accepted criteria.

Or do both....


because it makes kobe look bad...

5 seconds is barely enough time to get off a good shot so 30% is actually really good. Melo's percentage is just crazy good.

he is acting like this last second shots should be made with the same consistency as a normal shot. when in reality there are the hardest shots in the game.

[28renyoy]

Why wouldn't you just use the accepted game winning metric of 24 seconds or less...shots to tie or take the lead?

5 seconds or less seems too narrow. I would want more data and there is obviously a reason why the 24 seconds or less is the accepted criteria.

Or do both....

Final 24 seconds, within +2 or -3 points aka chance to ice, tie, or take the lead

59-188 31.3%

Again, 2009-10 he was 8-16 leading to the myth

[LakersReign]

Your point? Popularity=effectiveness? I guess you also think the person elected president is the absolute best person for the position in the country, correct?


That is the single most ret**ded response to that I've EVER heard. Yeah moron, so NBA coaches/players/analysts, don't know what they're talking about, but you do....right?:roll:

GTFOH!!!!

[SunsCaptain]

because it makes kobe look bad...

5 seconds is barely enough time to get off a good shot so 30% is actually really good. Melo's percentage is just crazy good.

he is acting like this last second shots should be made with the same consistency as a normal shot. when in reality there are the hardest shots in the game.

So what if i gave you the stats of entire 4th quarters over the course of playoffs for multiple years....Like I did and he still shoots 17-30%

[DMAVS41]

Finals 24 seconds, within +2 or -3 points aka chance to ice, tie, or take the lead

59-188 31.3%

Again, 2009-10 he was 8-16 leading to the myth

I'm not arguing for Kobe. I've repeatedly said he's overrated in the clutch. I'd just rather use the better criteria or both. I already knew it would be around 31% because ESPN did that study last year.

Can you post Dirk and Carmelo please. I'm interested to see how they compare on the 24 seconds or less criteria.

Thanks in advance.

[28renyoy]

That is the single most ret**ded response to that I've EVER heard. Yeah moron, so NBA coaches/players/analysts, don't know what they're talking about, but you do....right?:roll:

GTFOH!!!!

You're arguing against facts with opinions. Congratulations

[DMAVS41]

That is the single most ret**ded response to that I've EVER heard. Yeah moron, so NBA coaches/players/analysts, don't know what they're talking about, but you do....right?:roll:

GTFOH!!!!

You are an idiot. Perception is just that....perception.

Facts are just that....facts.

If perception and the facts don't go together.....then the perception is flawed. There is no doubt that Kobe is vastly overrated in the clutch. Everything proves that.

That doesn't mean he sucks. Just that he's not nearly as good as his rep. Do people really still try to pretend otherwise? Every bit of information that has come out has destroyed that notion.

:no:

[LBJMVP]

So what if i gave you the stats of entire 4th quarters over the course of playoffs for multiple years....Like I did and he still shoots 17-30%


because those stats don't mean kobe isn't clutch....

he shot awful in the 4th against new orleans in a game this year so what does he do, hit the game winner.

you can't just use numbers when in comes to clutch. you have to watch the games. anyone who watches the games should know that kobe is clutch

and anyone who has watched lebron should know that he was clutch when he was in cleveland and then when he went to miami he has been unclutch most of the time, especially in the biggest stage.

[LakersReign]

You're arguing against facts with opinions. Congratulations

Please:rolleyes:

Haters like you say the same tired crap over and over and over and over. Yet people who know the game way better than you fools ALWAYS disagree....why is that? Oh yeah...that's right, it's cuz of popularity.:facepalm

So...we're right back to haters like you supposedly knowing more than people in the NBA. Hate to be the one to tell you this. But REAL NBA fans would listen to the facts and opinions of players/coaches/GM's/analysts, over those of some nobody on the internet. So, just keep telling yourself that.:sleeping

[RazorBaLade]

I don't understand what this stat is without context of how other players do in the clutch on similar amounts.

[DMAVS41]

Please:rolleyes:

Haters like you say the same tired crap over and over and over and over. Yet people who know the game way better than you fools ALWAYS disagree....why is that? Oh yeah...that's right, it's cuz of popularity.:facepalm

So...we're right back to haters like you supposedly knowing more than people in the NBA. Hate to be the one to tell you this. But REAL NBA fans would listen to the facts and opinions of players/coaches/GM's/analysts, over those of some nobody on the internet. So, just keep telling yourself that.:sleeping

Do you really not know the difference between a fact and an opinion or perception.

I can post all the data and make no claims at all....that doesn't make me a hater. You seem to have a problem with the actual data, you know, the facts. And that is your problem.

Would you call me a "hater" if I posted all the data if it supported Kobe as the best clutch player? Of course not. So why would the opposite be true?

By all means, post actual data/evidence/facts that prove Kobe is as good as his rep in the clutch.

I'd love to see it and I wouldn't disregard anything. Why? Because I'm not a biased ****ing moron like you.

[28renyoy]

The bold has to actually be good though. Especially the regular season game winners with less than 5 seconds left. That is way above league average....

Dirk 33-83 39.3% but he is 19-36 52.6% these past 4 years

Carmelo 34-76 44.7%

Pierce 26-102 25.5%

LeBron 36-95 37.9%(prepares for shit storm)

[DMAVS41]

I don't understand what this stat is without context of how other players do in the clutch on similar amounts.

Bingo. See below though with Dirk and Melo for starters....significantly better.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk 33-83 39.3% but he is 19-36 52.6% these past 4 years

Carmelo 34-76 44.7%

Pierce 26-102 25.5%

LeBron 36-95 37.9%

I'm assuming that is the 24 seconds or less criteria. Correct?

[RazorBaLade]

Dirk 33-83 39.3% but he is 19-36 52.6% these past 4 years

Carmelo 34-76 44.7%

Pierce 26-102 25.5%

LeBron 36-95 37.9%(prepares for shit storm)

Well if kobe isn't clutch at 40% on *that* volume then honestly I don't know what clutch even means anymore. Is anyone clutch then? Assuming this is 4th quarter, 5 min or less within 5 pts, career.

[28renyoy]

Well if kobe isn't clutch at 40% on *that* volume then honestly I don't know what clutch even means anymore. Is anyone clutch then? Assuming this is 4th quarter, 5 min or less, career.

Uh Kobe is at 31.3%, that was shots with 24 seconds or left in +2 to -3 point games

And as for LeBron, he hasn't really changed much..he just isn't given opportunities, more than likely due to his preference to defer to Wade in crunch time

31-81 38.2% 2003-2010

5-14 35.6% 2010-2012

[DMAVS41]

Well if kobe isn't clutch at 40% on *that* volume then honestly I don't know what clutch even means anymore. Is anyone clutch then? Assuming this is 4th quarter, 5 min or less within 5 pts, career.

That is game winners. Kobe is at 31%. That is significantly worse than Dirk and Melo.

[LakersReign]

I don't understand what this stat is without context of how other players do in the clutch on similar amounts.


They CAN'T provide context cuz it will simply destroy their so called argument. Simple as that.

[RazorBaLade]

Uh Kobe is at 31.3%, that was shots with 24 seconds or left in +2 to -3 point games

And as for LeBron, he hasn't really changed much..he just isn't given opportunities, more than likely due to his preference to defer to Wade in crunch time

31-81 38.2% 2003-2010

5-14 35.6% 2010-2012

There is no stat in the OP that says 24 sec or left down up 2/3. But either way I think its interesting how in that mini list the more volume the lesser percentage it is.

Either way, I don't see how anything disproves he's clutch.. Maybe hes not as great as some may be led to believe, since no one really remembers the misses but that holds true for all players.. Considering his volume, hes gotta be in the t5 all time in the clutch. I dont see how the numbers disprove that. Maybe t3 depending on how you value his ability to make retarded hard shots.

Also I believe lebrons is deceiving because as you said, he doesnt get to shoot that many and also most of his criticisms are usually for the ones he doesn't take more so than the ones he does.. No one number is going to paint the full picture for anyone

[DMAVS41]

There is no stat in the OP that says 24 sec or left down up 2/3. But either way I think its interesting how in that mini list the more volume the lesser percentage it is.

Either way, I don't see how anything disproves he's clutch.. Maybe hes not as great as some may be led to believe, since no one really remembers the misses but that holds true for all players.. Considering his volume, hes gotta be in the t5 all time in the clutch. I dont see how the numbers disprove that. Maybe t3 depending on how you value his ability to make retarded hard shots.

Also I believe lebrons is deceiving because as you said, most of his criticisms are usually for the ones he doesn't take more so than the ones he does.. No one number is going to paint the full picture for anyone

He added that per my request because I thought 5 seconds or less was too narrow. The accepted criteria for game winners is better.

Bingo to the bold.

Top 5 clutch all time? No, but really good in the clutch? Yes.

[tpols]

Eh.. Kobe has been the 5 minutes and under crunch time ppg leader for like 7 or 8 seasons.. and hes almost always been in the top 3 or 5. He's never afraid of the moment and is probably the best closer of the 2000-2010 decade. Clutch reputation is the truth.

[DMAVS41]

Eh.. Kobe has been the 5 minutes and under crunch time ppg leader for like 7 or 8 seasons.. and hes almost always been in the top 3 or 5. He's never afraid of the moment and is probably the best closer of the 2000-2010 decade. Clutch reputation is the truth.

He takes a lot of shots though...and his teams have not performed that well in terms of wins or losses either.

Well, I should say not elite. Dirk's teams, Paul's teams, Lebron's teams (cleveland), and Duncan's teams have won more close games.

Kobe led teams also drop dramatically in terms of offensive efficiency late in close games as well.

Like I said. Good clutch player? Yes...of course. As good as his rep? Of course not.

[RazorBaLade]

He takes a lot of shots though...and his teams have not performed that well in terms of wins or losses either.

Well, I should say not elite. Dirk's teams, Paul's teams, Lebron's teams (cleveland), and Duncan's teams have won more close games.

Kobe led teams also drop dramatically in terms of offensive efficiency late in close games as well.

Like I said. Good clutch player? Yes...of course. As good as his rep? Of course not.

You know whats interesting about that though? I heard on the radio a while ago, kobe's teams are INSANE in OT. I think it was like 22-5 the last 27 games. Pretty incredible. NO idea what changes from last few min to OT...

[DMAVS41]

You know whats interesting about that though? I heard on the radio a while ago, kobe's teams are INSANE in OT. I think it was like 22-5 the last 27 games. Pretty incredible.

That is great. The last time I saw the study done, the Lakers went from first to like 12th in offensive efficiency and weren't in the top 5 in terms of record in close games.

If that has changed. So be it.

But I'm not arguing against Kobe being clutch. I think people often confuse the two. You can still be really good while not being the best or by far the best like most people claim.

Lebron vs Kobe in the clutch is actually a legit debate, but think about the kind of reactions most people like you give when that is mentioned. Just kind of funny...

[Whoah10115]

Man, thanks for ending it!

[28renyoy]

There is no stat in the OP that says 24 sec or left down up 2/3. But either way I think its interesting how in that mini list the more volume the lesser percentage it is.

Either way, I don't see how anything disproves he's clutch.. Maybe hes not as great as some may be led to believe, since no one really remembers the misses but that holds true for all players.. Considering his volume, hes gotta be in the t5 all time in the clutch. I dont see how the numbers disprove that. Maybe t3 depending on how you value his ability to make retarded hard shots.

Also I believe lebrons is deceiving because as you said, he doesnt get to shoot that many and also most of his criticisms are usually for the ones he doesn't take more so than the ones he does.. No one number is going to paint the full picture for anyone


Basketball reference now has a boxscore of every game from 2000-2012, with the ability to find any shot taken by any player at any point during any game. I simply looked at every shot from Kobe from 2000-2012 under the circumstances.

I listed several other players. I'm sorry but below average high volume shooting doesn't equate to being all time great.

For instance, was Durant who went 8-21 this year with <24 left better than Kobe who went 5-11 on such shots last year?

And btw Kobe went 4-20 this year on them

[SunsCaptain]

You know whats interesting about that though? I heard on the radio a while ago, kobe's teams are INSANE in OT. I think it was like 22-5 the last 27 games. Pretty incredible. NO idea what changes from last few min to OT...

Kobe this year in OT is 8-28 thats 29%....

is that the stat you were looking for?

[RazorBaLade]

Basketball reference now has a boxscore of every game from 2000-2012, with the ability to find any shot taken by any player at any point during any game. I simply looked at every shot from Kobe from 2000-2012 under the circumstances.

I listed several other players. I'm sorry but below average high volume shooting doesn't equate to being all time great.

For instance, was Durant who went 8-21 this year with <24 left better than Kobe who went 5-11 on such shots last year?

And btw Kobe went 4-20 this year on them

well you can have your opinion but kobe will beat it out of you in your impending sweep. But i dunno, just my personal honest opinion of what you said, ignoring those numbers.. I thought kobe was awful last year in the clutch. Absolutely awful. Can't remember a single game he really won by himself. This year I remember multiple. I'd much rather have this years kobe on my team in the 4th than last years.. The stats tell the total opposite though. Sometimes thats how it goes I guess. Perception nor stats will get you all the way there.


Kobe this year in OT is 8-28 thats 29%....

is that the stat you were looking for?

no it is not , my darling psychopath

[28renyoy]

You know whats interesting about that though? I heard on the radio a while ago, kobe's teams are INSANE in OT. I think it was like 22-5 the last 27 games. Pretty incredible. NO idea what changes from last few min to OT...

Kobe is 40-100, 40% in OT the past 5 years

[RazorBaLade]

That is great. The last time I saw the study done, the Lakers went from first to like 12th in offensive efficiency and weren't in the top 5 in terms of record in close games.

If that has changed. So be it.

But I'm not arguing against Kobe being clutch. I think people often confuse the two. You can still be really good while not being the best or by far the best like most people claim.

Lebron vs Kobe in the clutch is actually a legit debate, but think about the kind of reactions most people like you give when that is mentioned. Just kind of funny...

Saying lebron vs kobe in the clutch is a legit debate is like saying chandler vs lebron over the course of a game is a legit debate because one shoots a better percentage. You have to consider the reason they shoot so little.. and lebron is scared shitless. I would rather kobe take a contested shot over 3 players than risk lebron trying to sneak a pass through 3 people like during the all star game. But im a fan not perfectly unbiased...

I aint ever seen kobe get pooped on in teh 4th like lebron did last year tho...

[tpols]

He takes a lot of shots though...and his teams have not performed that well in terms of wins or losses either.

Well, I should say not elite. Dirk's teams, Paul's teams, Lebron's teams (cleveland), and Duncan's teams have won more close games.

Kobe led teams also drop dramatically in terms of offensive efficiency late in close games as well.

Like I said. Good clutch player? Yes...of course. As good as his rep? Of course not.
Lebron wasnt that much better in the clutch in Cleveland. Kobe was standing right there with him from 08-10 in terms of clutch scoring and gamewinners. And any small advantage he did have was obliterated by how bad Miami has been in the clutch with bron being a big factor. Hes shown way more mental weakness than kobe ever did.

Duncan and Dirk are both very clutch.. but Duncan isnt as potent on offense as Kobe and Dirk's clutchness has only started to trend upwards to greatness in the past few years. I would say Dirk is more clutch at his veteran/clutch peak because he really mastered his fallaway J and post move arsenal, but I'd rather have Kobe if were talking career clutchness because he's been taking the pressure shots since 2000/2001 on a huge profile team and succeeding.. much longer span of clutchness lol.

Chris Paul has a ton of heart but he doesnt have the size or scoring ability of Kobe. I dont really care how well NO was in regular season close games when they got demolished every year in the playoffs. Cant really make a case that CP has had a better clutch career than Kobe.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe is 40-100, 40% in OT the past 5 years

Again, meaningless without context. 40% seems good to me for that situation. If everyone shoots 50% then holy shit, okay, but if people that are really clutch like melo and dirk and pierce are shooting around 40% then man, I dont see your point. The only advantage kobe has on guys in that tier is that hes been able to keep that consistency on such a ridiculous volume.

[SunsCaptain]

I aint ever seen kobe get pooped on in teh 4th like lebron did last year tho...

All playoff stats.

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.





My boy Kobe getting pooped on.

[RazorBaLade]

Chris Paul has a ton of heart but he doesnt have the size or scoring ability of Kobe. I dont really care how well NO was in regular season close games when they got demolished every year in the playoffs. Cant really make a case that CP has had a better clutch career than Kobe.

if you watched the cp3 game today you would maybe be saying the same thing, but youd feel like cp3 is coming for him. goddamn man. Today was like watching prime kobe do his thing. it was a masterpiece in OT

[RazorBaLade]

Suns captain last time I checked 17%, 30%, 28% are infinity times better than 0%.

[SunsCaptain]

Suns captain last time I checked 17%, 30%, 28% are infinity times better than 0%.

Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%

[28renyoy]

Again, meaningless without context. 40% seems good to me for that situation. If everyone shoots 50% then holy shit, okay, but if people that are really clutch like melo and dirk and pierce are shooting around 40% then man, I dont see your point. The only advantage kobe has on guys in that tier is that hes been able to keep that consistency on such a ridiculous volume.

I don't think you understand...they don't shoot around 40%. That was on game winning shots, they were all significantly higher than Kobe

Dirk over his last 22 OT games(which is what Kobe played in that time period) is shooting 50.9%

Carmelo 44.4%

Durant is shooting 51% in OT these past 2 years, which is when he started being considered clutch.

[RazorBaLade]

Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I'm sorry I mean im not saying youre wrong , theres just a lot of stats.. 5 min, 3 min, up 5, tied, etc. Its stupid. So many different numbers.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron wasnt that much better in the clutch in Cleveland. Kobe was standing right there with him from 08-10 in terms of clutch scoring and gamewinners. And any small advantage he did have was obliterated by how bad Miami has been in the clutch with bron being a big factor. Hes shown way more mental weakness than kobe ever did.

Duncan and Dirk are both very clutch.. but Duncan isnt as potent on offense as Kobe and Dirk's clutchness has only started to trend upwards to greatness in the past few years. I would say Dirk is more clutch at his veteran/clutch peak because he really mastered his fallaway J and post move arsenal, but I'd rather have Kobe if were talking career clutchness because he's been taking the pressure shots since 2000/2001 on a huge profile team and succeeding.. much longer span of clutchness lol.

Chris Paul has a ton of heart but he doesnt have the size or scoring ability of Kobe. I dont really care how well NO was in regular season close games when they got demolished every year in the playoffs. Cant really make a case that CP has had a better clutch career than Kobe.

You listed ppg as your evidence. I merely said you have to take into account efficiency.

And I listed those other players as leaders of teams that have better records in close games.

Again. I have never disputed that Kobe is clutch. In fact I have called him one of the most clutch players ever.

And I must disagree a little about Dirk. Dirk has been very clutch most of his career. I'd say since about 02 he's been one of the best clutch players. And his "clutch peak" so to speak literally blows every other player of this era out of the water.

And you have already admitted that Dirk is a better game winning shot maker. As the evidence for their entire careers blatantly shows....Dirk makes his shots at about 8 to 9 percent better than Kobe. I'd say that is definitive enough over their entire careers.

And concerning Paul. Do you care about what he's doing in the playoffs now? I mean, at some point we have to acknowledge what that guy does late in close games. He not only is unstoppable himself, but he sets up teammates in perfect situations to score. He's also an elite defense force. He's been playing that way in crunch time virtually his entire career....and the results/stats speak for themselves.

At some point we can't just ignore that.

[RazorBaLade]

I don't think you understand...they don't shoot around 40%. That was on game winning shots, they were all significantly higher than Kobe

Dirk over his last 22 OT games(which is what Kobe played in that time period) is shooting 50.9%

Carmelo 44.4%

Durant is shooting 51% in OT these past 2 years, which is when he started being considered clutch.

Okay so Kobe is 40% on OT , carmelo 44%, dirk 51%. thats what i was asking for. Durant 51%.

What are the volumes again?

[tpols]

if you watched the cp3 game today you would maybe be saying the same thing, but youd feel like cp3 is coming for him. goddamn man. Today was like watching prime kobe do his thing. it was a masterpiece in OT
Yea I have a Final at 8 in the morning lol:oldlol: Missed the end.. but I saw him do the same shit last year against LA.

[SunsCaptain]

Yea I have a Final at 8 in the morning lol:oldlol: Missed the end.. but I saw him do the same shit last year against LA.

Kobe was 3-18 last year in the playoffs in the 4th quarter under 3 minutes.

Thats 17%

My boy Kobe...

[UtahJazzFan88]

Kobe was 3-18 last year in the playoffs in the 4th quarter under 3 minutes.

Thats 17%

My boy Kobe...

pauk :confusedshrug: :hammerhead:

[DMAVS41]

Okay so Kobe is 40% on OT , carmelo 44%, dirk 51%. thats what i was asking for. Durant 51%.

What are the volumes again?


Be careful with the volume argument. Its a very slippery slope. Because you likely are going to get into a situation of rewarding Kobe for taking a lot of bad shots. Which even the most ardent Kobe fan would admit he does.

And I'd argue the opposite. That the lower volume of some of these other players illustrates why they are superior in certain situations.

I'd say Kobe gets very close to or is in fact a ball hog in these situations and that would be my criticism of him. Not just his efficiency, but how many possessions he actually wastes.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe was 3-18 last year in the playoffs in the 4th quarter under 3 minutes.

Thats 17%

My boy Kobe...

Well his career has officially been defined. His worst year on 1 leg at 33 years old will be precede all other years including this one. You got him. His legacy is tainted.

[SunsCaptain]

Well his career has officially been defined. His worst year on 1 leg at 33 years old will be precede all other years including this one. You got him. His legacy is tainted.

I think when he chucked the lakers out of the finals in 04 and 08 was worse.

[28renyoy]

Okay so Kobe is 40% on OT , carmelo 44%, dirk 51%. thats what i was asking for. Durant 51%.

What are the volumes again?

Durant 4.2 FGA/OT @ 51% FG 40% 3P
Dirk 4.8 FGA/OT @ 50% FG 45.4% 3P
Carmelo 3.2 FGA/OT @ 44.4 FG% 35.3% 3P
Kobe 4.5 FGA/OT @ 40.0 FG% 22% 3P

[RazorBaLade]

[/B]

Be careful with the volume argument. Its a very slippery slope. Because you likely are going to get into a situation of rewarding Kobe for taking a lot of bad shots. Which even the most ardent Kobe fan would admit he does.

And I'd argue the opposite. That the lower volume of some of these other players illustrates why they are superior in certain situations.

I'd say Kobe gets very close to or is in fact a ball hog in these situations and that would be my criticism of him. Not just his efficiency, but how many possessions he actually wastes.

true.. I guess "clutch" encompasses all of that too... But he has shown he can make the right play too. I just dont see any case where the KOBE IS CLUTCH MYTH can be ended. I dont care for arguing about specific placements and such in this case because I just can't be unbiased. I grew up watching him and would rather have him shoot than anyone else just for the sake of it. I can't pick anyone else , i dont want the pass at the end. I want the superstar to shoot. But hes one of the best, up there, top 5, top 10, top 20. That isnt ending the kobe is clutch myth which is the reason I clicked here.


Durant 4.2 FGA/OT @ 51% FG 40% 3P
Dirk 4.8 FGA/OT @ 50% FG 45.4% 3P
Carmelo 3.2 FGA/OT @ 44.4 FG% 35.3% 3P
Kobe 4.5 FGA/OT @ 40.0 FG% 22% 3P

per game is not what I asked. Either way, surprised with carmelos numbers. least amount, and much worse than dirk and durant. Id have him shoot over durant for sure but the stats disagree.

[DMAVS41]

true.. I guess "clutch" encompasses all of that too... But he has shown he can make the right play too. I just dont see any case where the KOBE IS CLUTCH MYTH can be ended. I dont care for arguing about specific placements and such in this case because I just can't be unbiased. I grew up watching him and would rather have him shoot than anyone else just for the sake of it. I can't pick anyone else , i dont want the pass at the end. I want the superstar to shoot. But hes one of the best, up there, top 5, top 10, top 20. That isnt ending the kobe is clutch myth which is the reason I clicked here.



per game is not what I asked. there is a difference.

lol...per game is the by far better metric.

[28renyoy]

true.. I guess "clutch" encompasses all of that too... But he has shown he can make the right play too. I just dont see any case where the KOBE IS CLUTCH MYTH can be ended. I dont care for arguing about specific placements and such in this case because I just can't be unbiased. I grew up watching him and would rather have him shoot than anyone else just for the sake of it. I can't pick anyone else , i dont want the pass at the end. I want the superstar to shoot. But hes one of the best, up there, top 5, top 10, top 20. That isnt ending the kobe is clutch myth which is the reason I clicked here.



per game is not what I asked. there is a difference.

How the hell is there a difference? Unless you're going to sit here and argue variance because Kobe has played a longer career...which is absurd.

Durant is 24-47 these past 2 years
Dirk is 54-106 the past 22 games
Kobe is 40-100 the past 22 games
Melo is 38-85 for his career

[tpols]

Kobe was 3-18 last year in the playoffs in the 4th quarter under 3 minutes.

Thats 17%

My boy Kobe...
Pauk lol.. you better pray lebron wins this year:oldlol:

[RazorBaLade]

How the hell is there a difference? Unless you're going to sit here and argue variance because Kobe has played a longer career...which is absurd.

Actually before i make my point I should ask how the percentage is calculated. Does it tally up all the shooting numbers first and then divide it, or does per game go by evening out after all the averages are on the table? IE, 10 shots 1 game 2 shots another.. Made 5 then 0 . Is it 50% + 0% / 2 thus he shoots 25% or do they it the long way and go 5/12 = 40%. Obv the 2nd way is right but I dont know if they do it that way for sure


I think when he chucked the lakers out of the finals in 04 and 08 was worse.

if you want to define a player by the worst hes done, lebron will never amount to anything either. Ever. I dont like that way of looking at it.

[DMAVS41]

Actually before i make my point I should ask how the percentage is calculated. Does it tally up all the shooting numbers first and then divide it, or does per game go by evening out after all the averages are on the table? IE, 10 shots 1 game 2 shots another.. Made 5 then 0 . Is it 50% + 0% / 2 thus he shoots 25% or do they it the long way and go 5/12 = 40%. Obv the 2nd way is right but I dont know if they do it that way for sure



if you want to define a player by the worst hes done, lebron will never amount to anything either. Ever. I dont like that way of looking at it.

It would do the averages the same way we calculate ppg for players. No need to make this complicated sir.

[RazorBaLade]

How the hell is there a difference? Unless you're going to sit here and argue variance because Kobe has played a longer career...which is absurd.

Durant is 24-47 these past 2 years
Dirk is 54-106 the past 22 games
Kobe is 40-100 the past 22 games
Melo is 38-85 for his career

If durant and melo don't have 22 games it probably makes sense to just start kobe and dirk later. Kobes taken 100 shots in 22 games how do I know if melo has taken 85 shots in 35 games? Why wouldnt you post that?

[RazorBaLade]

[B]

It would do the averages the same way we calculate ppg for players. No need to make this complicated sir.

oh okay then.. no difference then. whoopz

[28renyoy]

If durant and melo don't have 22 games it probably makes sense to just start kobe and dirk later. Kobes taken 100 shots in 22 games how do I know if melo has taken 85 shots in 35 games? Why wouldnt you post that?

Durant 11 games
Melo was 25~


Want to compare Kobe with Durant over the same sample?

Last 2 years which is 10 games Kobe 15/47 FG 2-6 3
Last 2 years which is 11 games Durant 24-47 FG 4-10 3

[RazorBaLade]

Durant 11 games
Melo was 25~


Want to compare Kobe with Durant over the same sample?

Last 2 years which is 10 games Kobe 15/47 FG 2-6 3
Last 2 years which is 11 games Durant 24-47 FG 4-10 3

Rape. Wonder if durant continues to get better or if these are his best years. Can you grab an 11 game sample from kobes 2 best years?

[28renyoy]

Rape. Wonder if durant continues to get better or if these are his best years. Can you grab an 11 game sample from kobes 2 best years?

07-10 he played in 12 games and shot 25-53 FG 2-10 3

Although in 2000-01 season he was very impressive. He shot 15-26 in 7 OT games and almost all of it was in ISO, only assisted on 2 shots. However he shot 1-12 the next year

[Coffee Black]

:crazysam: :violin: :ohwell:

[thelucifer69]

Kobe take 15 game winning shot this season

Missed 11

In the last game vs OKC he missed 2 , one was wide open

[LakersReign]

07-10 he played in 12 games and shot 25-53 FG 2-10 3

Although in 2000-01 season he was very impressive. He shot 15-26 in 7 OT games and almost all of it was in ISO, only assisted on 2 shots. However he shot 1-12 the next year


Same sh*t....different day:sleeping

Oh, and by the way, normal people tend to pay more attention, when you have something more substantial to say other than "duh huh....duh huh....duh huh...duh huh....duh huh....ZOMG....KOBE SUCKS...Look at the stats cuz I don't watch games just boxscores......duh huh....duh huh....duh huh...duh huh....duh huh.:facepalm

[Extempo]

Only on internet forums where you are all nobodies.

Players, coaches, GMs in the league still regard him as the guy they want taking the last shot. Even when you do a nationwide fan poll, Kobe always wins. It's because he has built a career out of countless game-winners, more than MJ, and that's never changing. Suck it.

[Blue&Orange]

lol the coaches, GMs say... argument :lol

Sorry that doesn't erase reality... Kobe clutch is a media fabrication, that the sheep swallowed. Kobe just realized if you make one game winner, people will completely forget the previous 10 in a row missed.



The earth is round and travels around the sun... bu-bu-bu the coaches, GMs, players say it's flat and it's the sun that travels around the earth...

Mental breakdown much?



GMs,coaches and players also say D'Antoni is a great coach :facepalm

[INDI]

Yes I do if the offense is run correctly. Otherwise why the hell are you letting someone play ISO and lose games?

Kobe is hailed as being clutch

Clutch-done or accomplished in a critical situation

The truth is that he is no better than average in such situations.

Actually it's the opposite. The only reasons you know those stats is because Kobe plays the game in a fish bowl. People such as yourself that don't want to see him succeed have stats and data (always leaving out things that refute their case). For example: give me the clutch stats of Paul pierce..... I will bet the farm that you do not have it readily on deck. So how can you judge what clutch is if you have not done a comparison of other so called clutch players???


If kobe's clutch percentage per say is 27% but other guys that take shots in the clutch is 20%, who is more clutch? ( clutch meaning with 4 min left in the 4th, high pressured shots, shots to help your team advance).

[ItsTwisted]

I dont understand why people argue stuff like this when it is never going to change peoples opinions. You can throw facts around into somebody's face all day long but its up to them whether they choose to accept it or not.

For one, I am a Laker fan, and I will openly admit that Kobe is overrated in the clutch. I have seen many games where he has lost it for us by being careless, and playing iso's, not passing, etc. However, there have been many times, where the team needed him to step it up and he did.

Clutch doesnt necessarily mean taking the last shot, or scoring the most points, its also about how effective you are in helping your team win. Kobe because of who he is and his reputation demands a double team in a close game, and he demands the ball. If you double team him, someone will be open. At times he makes boneheaded plays and he doesnt pass, and I have seen plenty of times where he has passed. This will result in someone else making a shot and thus the team winning. Also if people watch Laker games as much as a Laker fan, you will also realize that once the game goes down to the wire, Kobe becomes the coach on the floor. Obviously again that comes with age, and one of the main reasons he has become a better player in the closing minutes the last few years.

You dont have to make every winning shot or have a great percentage, but you have to make a couple of great ones that people will remember you for and thus fear you in that sense. This is the case with Kobe, and many of the fanboys of his, as well as the case with many players and coaches in the NBA.

This same criteria can be used for Lebron and thats why I think a lot of Lebron fans are mad. Lebron over the years has been very clutch, and it wasnt until he went to Miami that he became "unclutch" as many of you see it. The truth is that Lebron has been very clutch, if you dont count the last shot, which again may not be the most important part of the game. In many of Miami's games, not counting the finals last year, the only reason they are in the game at the end is because of Lebron. Even last years finals, people refuse to take into consideration that had it not been for him the first three rounds, they wouldnt have even made it into the finals, cause Wade was sleeping the first three rounds.

However, what does concern me is his reluctance to take the last shot. In Cleveland this wasnt an issue, but in Miami, its almost as if he feels as though he will dissapoint Wade if he misses, so he would rather have Wade take the shot. I have seen many Miami games where Lebron will miss a shot, and he looks at Wade. In Cleveland, it was his team, and he was their leader, so he felt obligated to step up and take the shot, and if he failed so be it, he tried. In Miami, its a different scenario, and thats what is frusterating. He will be very clutch for the team, and in the end since he doesnt take the last shot, he is seen as unclutch.

Like I said, Kobe is overrated in the clutch when you think about it and see the facts, however anybody that watches the games can not argue that in the last 5 minutes, when their team is playing the Lakers and its a close game, that they are not scared of a Kobe takeover at any minute. I have seen him fail over and over again, and he has made me lose my nerves more times then I can count, but at the end of the day last 5 minutes of the game, there is no other player that I would want on that floor for the Lakers. He can be shooting 1/20 for the whole night, and at the end that ball better be in his hands, and 100% of the time, he will demand for the ball to be in his hands, and thats what separates him from everybody else.

[Jimmy2k8]

Kobe take 15 game winning shot this season

Missed 11

In the last game vs OKC he missed 2 , one was wide open

Did you watch that game? If you did, you would remember Kobe hitting clutch shots. Lets not forget that Durant/Westbrook didn't deliver.

[Nick Young]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUDdF8MPzBs

[glidedrxlr22]

Kobe nutt huggers can't take it when their god is exposed.

[pauk]

Here is the truth

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Regular season 5 point or less game
549-1371 40.04 FG% 96-331 29.0 3P%

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Postseason 5 point or less game
86-219 39.3 FG% 12-42 28.7 3P%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Regular Season less than 30 seconds left
48-155 30.96%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Postseason less than 30 seconds left
7-23 30.4%

Game winning/tying shots Regular season less than 5 seconds left
25-85 29.4 FG%

Game winning/tying shots Postseason less than 5 seconds left
3-14 21.4 FG%


From what I can see, Kobe's legacy as a clutch player really exploded back in 2009-10 because he went 6-11 on game winners in 1 season. He was considered "clutch" for a few playoff games during the early 2000's, but never really for his 4th quarter explosions/game winners. He had 1 great year and then he was touted as one of the GOAT clutch players. This is simply not the case.

:applause:

Kobe is the most overrated player in NBA history... next to Magic Johnson...

[Nick Young]

:applause:

Kobe is the most overrated player in NBA history... next to Magic Johnson...
What about Lebron? We are all witness to the king of underachievement and choking when it matters most:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0
how do you feel about this game?

[pauk]

What about Lebron? We are all witness to the king of underachievement and choking when it matters most

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0
how do you feel about this game?

What about Lebron? When it matters? Here you go... and im gona compare him to your hero aswell...

37-97 .360% in game 7's
38-108 .352% in title winning games
41% in 37 finals games
66-163 .400% to win finals mvp.. lowest fg% for any Finals MVP
14-56 .250% game winning shots
yup
Kobe

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GWinners-Playoffs.png

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-GWinners-Playoffs.png

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-Clutch.png

Gamewinning shots since 2002-03
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

www.82games.com

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2008-clutch-stats.jpg
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2009-clutch-stats.jpg
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2010-clutch-stats.jpg

:no:

Kobe career 25.3

LeBron James career 27.7

While destroying Kobe in scoring he beats Kobe in rebounds and assists

Kobe career 5.3/4.7

LeBron James Career 7.1/7

But the playoffs are what matter when you really step it up!!!!

Kobe:.......................LeBron:
2011: 23/3/3.......................24/8/6
2010: 29/6/6.......................29/9/8 on 50%
2009: 30/5/6.......................35/9/7 on 51%
2008: 30/6/6.......................28/8/8
2007: 33/5/4.......................25/8/8
2006: 28/6/6.......................31/8/6

Career averages:

Kobe: 25/5/5
LeBron: 28/8/7

LeBron beats Kobe even when comparing a better Kobe want to compare these two at the same stages of their career and see what really happens?

Kobe:.....................LeBron:
1999: 20/7/5..............2006: 31/8/6
2000: 21/5/4..............2007: 25/8/8
2001: 29/7/6..............2008: 28/8/8
2002: 27/6/5..............2009: 35/9/7 on 51%
2003: 32/5/5..............2010: 29/9/8 on 50%
2004: 25/5/6..............2011: 24/8/6

LeBron crushes Kobe.

Now If we are staying on topic and comparing choking jobs...In Kobes 2004 playoff run he shot 41% FG and 25% 3PT ...

LeBron shot 47% FG and 35% 3PT

So I guess its safe to say with all the information gained in this thread...

LeBrons' regular season > Kobe's

LeBron's postseason > Kobe's

LeBron's Finals performance in 2011 is better than all of Kobe's but one. I expect that to be surpassed very soon at the rate LeBron is going.

So once again where is the hate for LeBron coming from when Kobe is worse?

Kobe Kids: Please refrain from using pictures and youtube videos to debate. I like to reason with statistics and facts.

why does LeBron take so much "Heat" when the real choker is Kobe?

Last playoff/final game each year.THE BIG GAMES...Elimination games

Kobe: .................LeBron:
2011: 7-18 39%........9-15 60%

2010: 6-24 25%........8-21 38%

2009: 10-23 44%........8-20 40%

2008: 7-22 32% ......14-29 48%

2007: 13-33 39%......10-30 33%

2006: 8-16 50%.........11-24 46%

2004: 7-21 33%

2003: 9-19 47%

2002: 7-16 44%

2001: 7-18 39%

2000: 8-27 30%

1999: 7-16 44%

1997: 4-14 29%


One has had a longer career than the other.... what we know right now?

Games over 60%: LeBron - 1 Kobe - 0

Games over 50%: LeBron - 1 Kobe - 1

Games over 45%: LeBron - 3 Kobe - 2

Games under 40%: LeBron - 2 Kobe - 8

Games under 35%: LeBron - 1 Kobe - 5

Games under 30%: LeBron - 0 Kobe - 2 ( should be 3 but 2000 is rounded)

Looks like LeBron is doing ok while kobe chokes it up

Kobes overall finals performance:

09-10 40.5%
08-09 43.0%
07-08 40.5%
03-04 38.1%
01-02 51.4%
00-01 41.5%
99-00 36.7%

Look how terrible Kobe's numbers are (choking!!!)..... LeBrons overall finals performance in 2011:

10-11 47%.... Kobe only had ONE year better than this. Heck Kobe's second best year is 43%...fail!

Also in the Finals LeBron averaged more assists per game than Jason Kidd and almost as many rebounds as Tyson Chandler.

But Kobe blows EVERY finals EVERY SINGLE ONE except for once in 2002? and all the silly Kobe kids ignore that?...

Kobe is overrated and for some reason LeBron gets some undeserved hate when he is a better player than Kobe.

Kobe's Playoffs/Final Stats or Clutch stats there are laughable. Biggest choker/chucker

:no:

[pauk]

As you can see..... clutch myth once again exposed... i dont even hate Kobe, i appreciate his game, i think his accomplishments earns him a top 10-11 player of all time spot.... but his ability IS overrated like hell, especially on the clutch department....

Kobetards love to run around and call Lebron NOT clutch.... when Lebron has actually been more efficient there than your hero...

Kobetards love to run around and mention Lebrons Finals PPG last season.... well guess what, Kobe Bryant averaged 15 PPG once in a Finals with less rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and a much lower shooting percentage....

My point is.... if Lebron is not clutch... then fine... but if he is not clutch than Kobe for sure is not clutch either....

[glidedrxlr22]

^Well said sir. :applause:

[LakersReign]

lol the coaches, GMs say... argument :lol

Sorry that doesn't erase reality... Kobe clutch is a media fabrication, that the sheep swallowed. Kobe just realized if you make one game winner, people will completely forget the previous 10 in a row missed.



The earth is round and travels around the sun... bu-bu-bu the coaches, GMs, players say it's flat and it's the sun that travels around the earth...

Mental breakdown much?



GMs,coaches and players also say D'Antoni is a great coach :facepalm


So...according to your backwards hater logic, Kobe with 16 proven years in the league, is supposedly a media fabrication? So...then what do you call Lebron, "the chosen one king next Jordan" James, who gets all this praise for doing absolutely nothing, with almost 10 years in the league? Then he has the gall to talk about mindless sheep.:facepalm


Try again:no:

[LakersReign]

:applause:

Kobe is the most overrated player in NBA history... next to Magic Johnson...


B***h please.:sleeping

You're just mad cuz NOBODY bought into your pathetic Lebron > Magic hot garbage. So, just stop all that bloodclot cryin'.:no:

Yeah....NOW.....Magic's supposedly overrated. But that didn't seem to stop you from trying to compare Lebron to him, though did it? So....BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, since Magic is so supposedly overrated, and you compared Lebron to him. That means Lebron is overrated as well, too....right?:lol


OOPS!!!!:facepalm



(Now watch carefully as he ignores this post, since AS USUAL, he just mad a total fool out of himself)

[amfirst]

Here is the truth

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Regular season 5 point or less game
549-1371 40.04 FG% 96-331 29.0 3P%

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Postseason 5 point or less game
86-219 39.3 FG% 12-42 28.7 3P%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Regular Season less than 30 seconds left
48-155 30.96%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Postseason less than 30 seconds left
7-23 30.4%

Game winning/tying shots Regular season less than 5 seconds left
25-85 29.4 FG%

Game winning/tying shots Postseason less than 5 seconds left
3-14 21.4 FG%


From what I can see, Kobe's legacy as a clutch player really exploded back in 2009-10 because he went 6-11 on game winners in 1 season. He was considered "clutch" for a few playoff games during the early 2000's, but never really for his 4th quarter explosions/game winners. He had 1 great year and then he was touted as one of the GOAT clutch players. This is simply not the case.

At least he is willing to take difficult shots. Unlike ur self proclaim King LeBrick passing difficult shots to his team mates to miss, just to salvage his stats.

[jstern]

Kobe is very overrated in the clutch. No time to read this thread, but I imagine hit nut warmers are in full force trying to somehow prove otherwise, or deflecting.

[LakersReign]

Y'all can keep blabbing on and on and on and on, all y'all want to. *But the FACT is and will ALWAYS remain, y'all are nothing but a bunch of butthurt haters. *Mad cuz you're nobodies on the internet. *Therefore nobody cares about your pathetic hater opinions. *Cant EVER give credit when it's due, while still expecting normal, thinking, rational people to take anything you say seriously.:sleeping

16 years Kobe's been in the league and y'all been saying the same tired drivel for how long now, and what has happened? The people who's opinions matter know better. *And the fans who know basketball will listen to them, rather than a bunch of know nothing about anything loser nobodies on the internet. GTFOH!!!!

[Simple Jack]

Holy shit LakersReign. Is anyone reading his posts? :roll: :roll:

[glidedrxlr22]

Hate or no hate.....facts are facts. It's in the numbers. He does hit clutch shots, but no where near at the godly rate everyone seems to think.

Kobe stans take YOUR personal feelings out of this.

Fight numbers with numbers.....surely they exist.

[LakersReign]

Hate or no hate.....facts are facts. It's in the numbers. He does hit clutch shots, but no where near at the godly rate everyone seems to think.

Kobe stans take YOUR personal feelings out of this.

Fight numbers with numbers.....surely they exist.

Yeah....yeah....yeah...yeah.:rolleyes:

Kobe ISN'T clutch but EVERY other player in the league, living, dead, past, present is....right?:sleeping

Cuz being clutch and being able to do nothing with it but lose, seems to make sense in your world....doesn't it?:roll:

[glidedrxlr22]

Yeah....yeah....yeah...yeah.:rolleyes:

Kobe ISN'T clutch but EVERY other player in the league, living, dead, past, present is....right?:sleeping

Cuz being clutch and being able to do nothing with it but lose, seems to make sense in your world....doesn't it?:roll:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w272/clyderbw/crying.jpg

[LakersReign]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbQcNhxDkDNcatdQG3oO0Bbu64Cg-O-9ebVq1nAdQxkmZF8gWPfxLiMdtE1g


So...again....what you're saying is, being clutch and losing while being so supposedly clutch, makes sense to you....right?:lol So...then what's the point of being clutchh at all if you can't do anything with it again?:confusedshrug:

[boojitede]

@AlexKennedyNBA:

LAL's last five go-ahead shots in the final minute of postseason games were hit by Sessions, Fisher, Gasol and MWP. None by Bryant since 08.

[glidedrxlr22]

Just looking at numbers fella......y u :cry:

[LakersReign]

Just looking at numbers fella......y u :cry:

So...I'm supposedly cryin' cuz you're saying stupid sh*t like being clutch and losing means more than being clutch and winning? Which is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what clutch actually is and is supposed to be....helping your team to win in crucial moments?:facepalm

Not cryin' at all. I'm simply laughing so hard at how ridiculous you're making yourself look, that my eyes are watering:roll:

[tmacattack33]

I clicked on this thread and looked at the date, expecting this thread to be a bump from 2 years ago.

This is old news.

[glidedrxlr22]

So...I'm supposedly cryin' cuz you're saying stupid sh*t like being clutch and losing means more than being clutch and winning? Which is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what clutch actually is and is supposed to be....helping your team to win in crucial moments:facepalm

Think about that one for a minute:roll:

Never said that......was just looking at clutch statistics and there they are for everybody to see.....not just to be glossed over by stans that just spew out..."you're just a hater!......espn highlights are all the proof you need!....waaaaahhh!"

[LBJMVP]

come on people... kobe is clutch it really isn't hard to see. pauk is posting all the numbers and refuses to show anything about how lebron went...


0-7 in the final five minutes of clutch time in the finals... 0%
3 points per fourth quarter? most of which were when the game was out of reach. and had to worst finals performance by a superstar ever.


then throw in the 2007 finals and the shooting doesnt get much better.


he shows all these numbers, but only compares them with like 4 other players... how we even suppose to know what the league average for this stuff if? kobe has taken soooo many more last second shots then anyone else that you really can't even compare him to anyone. it's just ridiculous that you guys saying kobe isn't clutch according to these numbers.

he has been so unclutch the last 4 years that he made it to the nba finals 3 times and won finals MVP in two of them.

[LakersReign]

Never said that......was just looking at clutch statistics and there they are for everybody to see.....not just to be glossed over by stans that just spew out..."you're just a hater!......espn highlights are all the proof you need!....waaaaahhh!"


Spoken like the true know nothing about basketball hater you CLEARLY are. Yeah watch ESPN highlights....not actually games....right? Yeah...that makes sense. "Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....I supposedly know more about basketball than players/GM's/coaches/analyst(who ALL say Kobe's clutch), cuz I watch ESPN highlights. So listen to my hater opinion":facepalm

Hilarious:roll:

[glidedrxlr22]

Spoken like the true know nothing about basketball hater you CLEARLY are. Yeah watch ESPN highlights....not actually games....right? Yeah...that makes sense. "Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....listen to me cuz I supposedly know more about basketball than players/GM's/coaches/analyst, cuz I watch ESPN highlights":facepalm

Hilarious:roll:

I see games everyday troll. These are just stats on late game shots. Yes, the Lakers have won a lot, but a lot of that winning hasn't even involved clutch shots because the Lakers were clearly ahead. We can't just say that the Lakers have won a lot because Kobe has hit a ton of clutch shots. Each of his clutch shot has an exaggerated effect because they are shown so much.....but clutch stats are clutch stats.

[LakersReign]

come on people... kobe is clutch it really isn't hard to see. pauk is posting all the numbers and refuses to show anything about how lebron went...


0-7 in the final five minutes of clutch time in the finals... 0%
3 points per fourth quarter? most of which were when the game was out of reach. and had to worst finals performance by a superstar ever.


then throw in the 2007 finals and the shooting doesnt get much better.


he shows all these numbers, but only compares them with like 4 other players... how we even suppose to know what the league average for this stuff if? kobe has taken soooo many more last second shots then anyone else that you really can't even compare him to anyone. it's just ridiculous that you guys saying kobe isn't clutch according to these numbers.

he has been so unclutch the last 4 years that he made it to the nba finals 3 times and won finals MVP in two of them.


The only people too stupid to acknowledge that is butthurt Lebronytes who are mad cuz Lebron can't do what Kobe has done. They're clueless about basketball, and have no clue what clutch really is and what it's supposed to represent. Just like with everything else, they want to throw Lebron in the mix, with nothing but their hater opinions. Thinking REAL NBA fans are going to take those as fact over that of players/coaches/GM's/analysts, who know the game better than any of us do. The record speaks for itself.:applause:

[ballinhun8]

Who said this was a myth???


It's the stone cold truth. Just cuz you started watching ball in 2007 Joyner doesn't mean it didn't exist before then.

[andgar923]

Kobe IS clutch.

However... just like everything that's Kobe related, it's overrated. So much so that the lies become myths and the myths become facts in the eyes of many.

He is clutch, just not as clutch as many make him out to be.... not close.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe IS clutch.

However... just like everything that's Kobe related, it's overrated. So much so that the lies become myths and the myths become facts in the eyes of many.

He is clutch, just not as clutch as many make him out to be.... not close.

Pretty much this. No one is saying Kobe isn't clutch, he is, it's just his ability in crunch time is overstated/rated.

I'd take Durant and Dirk (in his prime) over him if we're talking crunch time.

[AlphaWolf24]

come on people... kobe is clutch it really isn't hard to see. pauk is posting all the numbers and refuses to show anything about how lebron went...


0-7 in the final five minutes of clutch time in the finals... 0%
3 points per fourth quarter? most of which were when the game was out of reach. and had to worst finals performance by a superstar ever.


then throw in the 2007 finals and the shooting doesnt get much better.


he shows all these numbers, but only compares them with like 4 other players... how we even suppose to know what the league average for this stuff if? kobe has taken soooo many more last second shots then anyone else that you really can't even compare him to anyone. it's just ridiculous that you guys saying kobe isn't clutch according to these numbers.

he has been so unclutch the last 4 years that he made it to the nba finals 3 times and won finals MVP in two of them.

:lol reading that line...I was like.......
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/TheOnlyNoob/dat-supa-gif-bro.gif

[DMAVS41]

Y'all can keep blabbing on and on and on and on, all y'all want to. *But the FACT is and will ALWAYS remain, y'all are nothing but a bunch of butthurt haters. *Mad cuz you're nobodies on the internet. *Therefore nobody cares about your pathetic hater opinions. *Cant EVER give credit when it's due, while still expecting normal, thinking, rational people to take anything you say seriously.:sleeping

16 years Kobe's been in the league and y'all been saying the same tired drivel for how long now, and what has happened? The people who's opinions matter know better. *And the fans who know basketball will listen to them, rather than a bunch of know nothing about anything loser nobodies on the internet. GTFOH!!!!

Dude. Get help. Seriously. Its not even funny. I truly worry for you.

[LakersReign]

Y'all can keep blabbing on and on and on and on, all y'all want to. *But the FACT is and will ALWAYS remain, y'all are nothing but a bunch of butthurt haters. *Mad cuz you're nobodies on the internet. *Therefore nobody cares about your pathetic hater opinions. *Cant EVER give credit when it's due, while still expecting normal, thinking, rational people to take anything you say seriously.:sleeping

16 years Kobe's been in the league and y'all been saying the same tired drivel for how long now, and what has happened? The people who's opinions matter know better. *And the fans who know basketball will listen to them, rather than a bunch of know nothing about anything loser nobodies on the internet. GTFOH!!!!

The truth really does hurt.....doesn't it?:roll:

[KingBeasley08]

The truth really does hurt.....doesn't it?:roll:
16.75 posts a day :facepalm

[niko]

I've seen kobe come up big in some moments, small in some. But i can tell you what i have never seen. I have never seen Kobe, in the finals say SAVE ME IM TERRIFIED I DONT WANT TO PLAY ANYMORE in crunch time of the last 4 games.

The fact Lebron basically said NO MAS in a finals he was winning is something that i know people like to ignore (ESPN's new spin is it was just some cosmic accident that should be ignored).

How people can watch basketball and decide Kobe is not clutch but Lebron is - mind boggling.

Lebron is given credit like he has won multiple titles.

[LakersReign]

That's right. Do what you clowns LOVE to do. The truth hurts, so you're going to derial the thread with yet another circle jerk session, fantasizing about me on an NBA forum. Since y'all CLEARLY know nothing about the game. Which is exactly why you'd rather come on an NBA forum, OBSESSING over another dude, than talk about the NBA. Cuz y'all are delusional enough to think that's supposedly the sort of thing STRAIGHT, NORMAL guys supposedly do an an NBA forum:facepalm

Sick *****:eek:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's right. Do what you clowns LOVE to do. The truth hurts, so you're going to derial the thread with yet another circle jerk session, fantasizing about me on an NBA forum. Since y'all CLEARLY know nothing about the game. Which is exactly why you'd rather come on an NBA forum, OBSESSING over another dude, than talk about the NBA. Cuz y'all are delusional enough to think that's supposedly the sort of thing STRAIGHT, NORMAL guys supposedly do an an NBA forum:facepalm

Sick *****:eek:

Quit editing posts and take your meds.

[chazzy]

http://www.backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/kobe-clutch.jpg

[Simple Jack]

16.75 posts a day :facepalm

They are all the same exact posts too. Start with "Gotta love when..."...throw in "mollywhopped" and "hot garbage" (he even said bloodclot cryin' the other day) with a bunch of smilies, bolded words...then, for his finale...a couple of spaces then a GTFOH!!! or some other stupid phrase with another smiley. To top it off, he goes back and edits his posts from hours ago sometimes.

It's funny when someone like him, the idiot that he is, talks about people coming on a forum to hate on a specific player at all costs while defending their favorite player when he's described every single one of his posts. I'm also not sure how he keeps talking about bring rational when he's out of his f'kn mind. He's a strange one.

[madmax]

They are all the same exact posts too. Start with "Gotta love when..."...throw in "mollywhopped" and "hot garbage" (he even said bloodclot cryin' the other day) with a bunch of smilies, bolded words...then, for his finale...a couple of spaces then a GTFOH!!! or some other stupid phrase with another smiley. To top it off, he goes back and edits his posts from hours ago sometimes.

It's funny when someone like him, the idiot that he is, talks about people coming on a forum to hate on a specific player at all costs while defending their favorite player when he's described every single one of his posts. I'm also not sure how he keeps talking about bring rational when he's out of his f'kn mind. He's a strange one.

the dude really seems messed up to me...why are mods allowing his incoherent ramblings anyway?:confusedshrug:

[glidedrxlr22]

They are all the same exact posts too. Start with "Gotta love when..."...throw in "mollywhopped" and "hot garbage" (he even said bloodclot cryin' the other day) with a bunch of smilies, bolded words...then, for his finale...a couple of spaces then a GTFOH!!! or some other stupid phrase with another smiley. To top it off, he goes back and edits his posts from hours ago sometimes.

It's funny when someone like him, the idiot that he is, talks about people coming on a forum to hate on a specific player at all costs while defending their favorite player when he's described every single one of his posts. I'm also not sure how he keeps talking about bring rational when he's out of his f'kn mind. He's a strange one.

Yeah, LakersReign is an obsessive tool.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They are all the same exact posts too. Start with "Gotta love when..."...throw in "mollywhopped" and "hot garbage" (he even said bloodclot cryin' the other day) with a bunch of smilies, bolded words...then, for his finale...a couple of spaces then a GTFOH!!! or some other stupid phrase with another smiley. To top it off, he goes back and edits his posts from hours ago sometimes.

It's funny when someone like him, the idiot that he is, talks about people coming on a forum to hate on a specific player at all costs while defending their favorite player when he's described every single one of his posts. I'm also not sure how he keeps talking about bring rational when he's out of his f'kn mind. He's a strange one.

LakersReign is Bladers. He goes on this alt (his Bladers account is an alt too btw) just to hero worship like an apostle.

It's pretty sad that he can't even troll right; kid belongs on the short yellow bus.

[Simple Jack]

I don't think LakersReign is Bladers.

Despite being a huge troll, Bladers is actually funny sometimes and tries to make sense. LakersReign is just an idiot who appears to be living in a fantasy world.

[ihoopallday]

That's right. Do what you clowns LOVE to do. The truth hurts, so you're going to derial the thread with yet another circle jerk session, fantasizing about me on an NBA forum. Since y'all CLEARLY know nothing about the game. Which is exactly why you'd rather come on an NBA forum, OBSESSING over another dude, than talk about the NBA. Cuz y'all are delusional enough to think that's supposedly the sort of thing STRAIGHT, NORMAL guys supposedly do an an NBA forum:facepalm

Sick *****:eek:

Aren't you also obsessing over another dude? If they bother you so much, why bother responding? Lol, just trying to give you some simple advice.

[Heavincent]

Pauk, how many ****ing accounts do you have on here? Jesus Christ :oldlol:

[LakersReign]

Aren't you also obsessing over another dude? If they bother you so much, why bother responding? Lol, just trying to give you some simple advice.

I'm not obsessing over anything, just telling the truth. Look at posts 125 - 129, then holla back. Yeah...real NBA type content there. Called it, didn't I?:eek:

[Simple Jack]

I'm not obsessing over anything, just telling the truth. Look at posts 125 - 129, then holla back. Yeah...real NBA type content there:eek:

Look at any of your posts...what have you offered to basketball discussion on this forum beside complaining about LeBronytes?

[ihoopallday]

I'm not obsessing over anything, just telling the truth. Look at posts 125 - 129, then holla back. Yeah...real NBA type content there:eek:

Ok, but instead of complaining, why not just stop respond to these so called "haters". Your not going to change their views, so you're pretty much just wasting your time. Vice versa.

[LakersReign]

Pauk, how many ****ing accounts do you have on here? Jesus Christ :oldlol:

It's really sad. But then again, the way he acts like he's in love with Lebron and wants to have sex with him, should've been a dead giveaway.:facepalm

[KingBeasley08]

I'm not obsessing over anything, just telling the truth. Look at posts 125 - 129, then holla back. Yeah...real NBA type content there. Called it, didn't I?:eek:
why do you always edit your posts?

[ihoopallday]

Like I said before, look at the posts. Tell me where you see any response from me.

I've seen so many posts with you always calling people out and clearly being biased. Anyways, I won't waste my time arguing with ya. Congratulations, you win

[KingBeasley08]

how many times are you gonna edit your damn post :lol

[westside_baller]

There's no disputing the fact that Kobe's late game percentages are piss-poor. Having said that, Kobe wants that shot more than anyone else in the game right now. Kobe comes out on top in terms of nerve and will-power, but not in terms of actual results.

It's also quite telling that Kobe's defenders can only reply with profanity, pictures and middle fingers. Meaning the OP is obviously correct.

[ihoopallday]

If you say so. I asked you to look at SPECIFIC posts in this thread and your response is "oh...I've seen SO MANY POSTS"? Bias is being shown something and refusing to see it. Simply cuz you already have another idea in your head. Like you're being/doing right now.:facepalm


Try again:no:
So someone showing you a stat line of Kobe's late game failures and you still defending him isn't being biased? I understand you like the guy, but at least accept his flaws. LeBron is my favorite player, but even I agree he didn't show up in the finals and flops sometimes. You can't look at someone's accomplishments without accepting their failures. That's what you seem to do in my opinion.

[Simple Jack]

Please.:rolleyes:

There is not and has never been a real debate about this. The only people who keep trying to make this an issue , is Kobe haters. The FACT of the matter is, I say again, REAL NBA fans will ALWAYS listen to people who have played, are still playing used to play, or currently work for the NBA. Cuz they know what they're talking about. Kobe hatin' nobodies on the internet with nothing better to do have no credibilty in this issue cuz their only agenda is to hate. The very idea that you're suggesting people disregard the opinions of people in the NBA on Kobe being clutch. And take the hater opinions of a bunch of nobodies over the internet with nothing better to do as fact, is purely laughable. The issue has been settled a long time ago. Whether you want to accept is or not is irrelevant.

What do you have to say about Barkley stating LeBron is BY FAR the best player in the league? Or Oscar's comments? Jerry West? Larry Bird?

You can't pick and choose. You can't just agree with the players only when their statements support your beliefs.

He's gunna avoid this post or quote it and say something completely irrelevant instead of answering the question because that's what LakersReign does.

[ihoopallday]

What do you have to say about Barkley stating LeBron is BY FAR the best player in the league? Or Oscar's comments? Jerry West? Larry Bird?

You can't pick and choose. You can't just agree with the players only when their statements support your beliefs.

He's gunna avoid this post or quote it and say something completely irrelevant instead of answering the question because that's what LakersReign does.
This. That's all I'm trying to tell this guy and he doesn't seem to understand it. If your a real fan, you accept a player's flaws. He only looks at the glamorous parts of Kobe's game.

[ihoopallday]

Please.:rolleyes:

There is not and has never been a real debate about this. The only people who keep trying to make this an issue , is Kobe haters. The FACT of the matter is, I say again, REAL NBA fans will ALWAYS listen to people who have played, are still playing used to play, or currently work for the NBA. Cuz they know what they're talking about. Kobe hatin' nobodies on the internet with nothing better to do have no credibilty in this issue cuz their only agenda is to hate. The very idea that you're suggesting people disregard the opinions of people in the NBA on Kobe being clutch. And take the hater opinions of a bunch of nobodies over the internet with nothing better to do as fact, is purely laughable. The issue has been settled a long time ago. Whether you want to accept is or not is irrelevant.

So since I didn't play in the NBA, I should never make a post again? You're telling me that only NBA players can have credible arguments? Lol guess we should fire 95% of sports journalists and analysts.

[Big#50]

If you say so. I asked you to look at SPECIFIC posts in this thread and your response is "oh...I've seen SO MANY POSTS"? Bias is being shown something and refusing to see it. Simply cuz you already have another idea in your head. Like you're being/doing right now.:facepalm


Try again:no:
Which Stan were you before this?

[glidedrxlr22]

LakersReign getting called out, exposed, and owned.

[KingBeasley08]

holy crap.. you edited your post again :lol :bowdown:

[Simple Jack]

Just gotta love it NON Laker/Kobe fans LOVE to tell Laker/Kobe fans about Kobe and the Lakers.:rolleyes:

Holla back when you can show me(linkls/url's) where I ONLY talk about Kobe's accolades and nothing else in context of his entire career. Up to and including missed shots, losses, playoff elimination etc.:sleeping

This oughta be good:lol


What do you have to say about Barkley stating LeBron is BY FAR the best player in the league? Or Oscar's comments? Jerry West? Larry Bird?

You can't pick and choose. You can't just agree with the players only when their statements support your beliefs.

He's gunna avoid this post or quote it and say something completely irrelevant instead of answering the question because that's what LakersReign does.


Answer the question.

[KingBeasley08]

holy shit lakersreign is killing me:roll:

[Simple Jack]

Edited his post again :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

holy shit lakersreign is killing me:roll:


The guy is an idiot.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's not clutch.

[ihoopallday]

Exactly the kind of stupid response I knew you'd eventually come with, cuz you're CLEARLY "grasping at straws" at the moment, trying to say something. Big surprise.:rolleyes:

Love it how in his haste to say something stupid, he forgot that sports journalists and analyst also picked Kobe to take the last shot. Effectively ethering himself:lol

OOPS!!!!:facepalm

Where did I write anything about Kobe taking a last shot? You clearly said "The FACT of the matter is, I say again, REAL NBA fans will ALWAYS listen to people who have played, are still playing used to play, or currently work for the NBA. Cuz they know what they're talking about.".


That means I should never listen to a sports journalist or analyst who didn't play in the NBA? Then someone pointed out how people like Barkley, Shaq, etc. have said LeBron is the best player in todays game. These are former NBA players being analysts. Do you listen to them in this situation, or only when they praise Kobe? Like I said in the beginning of arguing with you, you clearly don't accept Kobe's flaws and only glorify the accomplishments. Why is that so hard to understand.

[bwink23]

So...according to you, clutch and taking the last shot are supposedly something different?:facepalm


Time for semantics now....huh? Stop posting....for real:hammerhead:


You are a fvcking D-BAG"


http://www.donellevance.com/tshirtpr0n/images/shirts/fullsize/dbag.jpg

[Lebron23]

I am starting to like Kobe again. LR is a horrible gimmick account. He's probably one of the moderators in this forum.

[ihoopallday]

So...according to you, clutch and taking the last shot are supposedly something different?:facepalm


Time for semantics now....huh? Stop posting....for real:hammerhead:

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? What does that have to do with what I just posted? I think I'll just give up on you. You're in a delusional state of mind that I can't comprehend.

[Lebron23]

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? What does that have to do with what I just posted? I think I'll just give up on you. You're in a delusional state of mind that I can't comprehend.


He's mentally retarded.

[Derka]

Stats are a lie in this case.

When the game is on the line and the ball goes to his hands, its because there's a chance he's gonna make the shot and the other guys on the floor probably won't. That's the essence of clutch.

[Simple Jack]

He is clinically retarded. To achieve that level of delusion is something special. This should be documented.

[LakersReign]

Stats are a lie in this case.

When the game is on the line and the ball goes to his hands, its because there's a chance he's gonna make the shot and the other guys on the floor probably won't. That's the essence of clutch.


Only people who actually watch games can understand that.

[SunsCaptain]

I am starting to like Kobe again. LR is a horrible gimmick account. He's probably one of the moderators in this forum.

Now you are talking my language....

Kobe may not be that great but we love him anyways and thats why we are fans!

Kobe my boy.

[ihoopallday]

Just gotta love it how he INSISTED on making himself look stupid. Then of course tries to save face by running away.:roll:

Delusional would be you saying clutch and taking the last shot are supposedly something different. Learn how to read what you post and comprehend what you post:banghead:

I seriously think you have me confused with someone else. Where in the world did I ever say "clutch and taking the last shot are supposedly something different." Lol I began arguing with you like 3 pages ago and now you're putting words in my mouth. The crazy thing is, you still haven't answered any question I've asked you.

[Simple Jack]

Keep trying.:rolleyes:

I'll answer your questions when you stop acting like a b***h, and find me those links I asked you for where I supposedly ONLY talk about Kobe fame, ans supposedly nothing else, according to you. I'm STILL waiitng.:sleeping

How about you stop avoiding the question I asked?

[ihoopallday]

Keep trying.:rolleyes:

And hell to the no, am I finding anything for you. If you're too stupid to understand what you post, then that's your problem, not mine. I'll answer your questions when you grow up and start acting like a mature adult. Stop acting like a little b***h, and find me those links I asked you for where I supposedly ONLY talk about Kobe fame, and supposedly nothing else, according to you. I'm STILL waiitng.:sleeping

(Now watch carefully as he suddenly goes blind now so he can't see anything. And also suddenly develops amnesia, where he can't remember anything he posted either.)

Why would I go find links of you when you can't answer a question I asked five minutes ago. I came into this thread and called you out on you saying people were obsessing over you. I told you if those people bothered you so much, then why bother responding.

Then, I clearly said you defend Kobe, even when people showed you obvious stats. Again, you wanted me to show you links of when you do that. WTF, we're still in the same thread with you doing that. Finally, you said "The FACT of the matter is, I say again, REAL NBA fans will ALWAYS listen to people who have played, are still playing used to play, or currently work for the NBA. Cuz they know what they're talking about.".


I called you out on that by saying "That means I should never listen to a sports journalist or analyst who didn't play in the NBA?" and you still wouldn't answer my question.

Am I missing anything?

[Simple Jack]

Playing semantics just makes you look even more stupid. Again I state, sports journalists and well as analyst also picked Kobe to take the last shot and ALSO said he was clutch. Which both mean the same thing.

Keep grasping at straws, making yourself look more and more pointless and stupid.:sleeping

Right so you use people directly involved in the sport as proof of Kobe being the most clutch player in the league. Many of those same people (including Bird, Barkley, Oscar, West) said Bron is the best player in the league and one of the best of all-time; yet you continually state he's overrated.

So you take them at their word when they say Kobe is the most clutch yet disregard any positive they say about LeBron?

Just stop posting you weirdo.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Right so you use people directly involved in the sport as proof of Kobe being the most clutch player in the league. Many of those same people (including Bird, Barkley, Oscar, West) said Bron is the best player in the league and one of the best of all-time; yet you continually state he's overrated.

So you take them at their word when they say Kobe is the most clutch yet disregard any positive they say about LeBron?

Just stop posting you weirdo.

Whether you believe it or not, LR is Bladers. Both are delusional, both like wrestling, both like anime, and both are Kobe fanatics.

Not sure why some of you are trying to get him to respond to your posts. Kid is purposely deflecting...troll tactic.

[ihoopallday]

Playing semantics just makes you look even more stupid. Again I state, sports journalists and well as analyst also picked Kobe to take the last shot and ALSO said he was clutch. Which both mean the same thing since you're the one who seems to think they both supposedly mean something different.

I'm STILL waiting for those links btw. Notice how he can seem to be able to read my posts. But suddenly CAN'T read HIS OWN? Keep grasping at straws, making yourself look more and more pointless and stupid.:sleeping

Ok, so you win on the whole links arguement. :applause: . Now you can't avoid my questions I asked. Now let me use you're own arguement against you. Post the links where you saw me say "clutch and taking the last shot are supposedly something different."

Also respond to my question I asked you like 30 minutes ago..
"So since I didn't play in the NBA, I should never make a post again? You're telling me that only NBA players can have credible arguments? Lol guess we should fire 95% of sports journalists and analysts."

[ihoopallday]

Yeah...let's just forget the FACT that you CLEARLY made all that up just to have something to say....right?:rolleyes:

You do realize that you just ethered yourself....don't you?:roll:

How'd I make all this up when you can clearly just scroll back up and read them? :confusedshrug: Btw, still waiting on my answers.

[ihoopallday]

AND....the little ret**ded child(ihoopallday) repeats like a pathetic parrot, cuz he knows he never had a real point here to begin with. Big surprise.:sleeping

I'm just curious why you can't answer a single question I've asked. Now I can tell you're just getting angry. It's ok, we can't win every arguement.

[Lebron23]

AND....the little ret**ded child(ihoopallday) repeats like a pathetic parrot, cuz he knows he never had a real point here to begin with. Big surprise.:sleeping


Bladers

[KingBeasley08]

he deleted his posts now :roll: :bowdown: :applause:

[ihoopallday]

he deleted his posts now :roll: :bowdown: :applause:

:roll: I didn't mean to hurt the guys feelings, just couldn't understand why he wouldn't answer a SINGLE question I asked him.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe misses yet another game winner in the playoffs. Shocking.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe misses yet another game winner in the playoffs. Shocking.

Doesn't game winner imply the game is won if the player makes it?

When did that happen tonight?

[francesco totti]

Misses two pointer to tie at 98 - 96
Misses 3 pointer to tie at 99 - 96
Misses 3 pointer to tie at 102 - 99

[chazzy]

Kobe misses yet another game winner in the playoffs. Shocking.
This isn't the kind of game you bump this thread for...

[mark]

Doesn't game winner imply the game is won if the player makes it?

When did that happen tonight?


Why was he shooting off balance sideways threes?????

[RedBlackAttack]

Kobe misses yet another game winner in the playoffs. Shocking.
You serious right now?

[bmulls]

This isn't the kind of game you bump this thread for...

:rolleyes:

How many beastly performances has Lebron put on, only to be shit on because he missed the last shot?

[PickernRoller]

Why was he shooting off balance sideways threes?????

You ever seen Kobe shoot?

[stallionaire]

Kobe choked pretty hard tonight again.

[mikek85]

Kobe fail today. Can't close out nuggets.

[DMAVS41]

This isn't the kind of game you bump this thread for...

Absolutely it is. When have I ever called Kobe not clutch? Never. I have simply said his rep on game winners is hugely overblown. And shocking, he missed another one tonight.

Hence the "MYTH" that Kobe is great at making game winners.

Not hard to comprehend buddy...

[gtfomyface]

as anyone could see today, kobe was clutch as hell, but he couldn't finish at the end, which is why these silly last 5 second stats don't represent how clutch he is

[RazorBaLade]

Absolutely it is. When have I ever called Kobe not clutch? Never. I have simply said his rep on game winners is hugely overblown. And shocking, he missed another one tonight.

Hence the "MYTH" that Kobe is great at making game winners.

Not hard to comprehend buddy...

Can you tell me by what version of the english language was any shot he took tonight a game winning opportunity?

[mark]

You ever seen Kobe shoot?

Obviously not enough because that's shocking to me, no respect to lakers or Kobe. Kobe is now defined as the sushi restaurant in Maui, not the basketball player.

[amfirst]

The person who post this thread should kill himself for stupidity.

Kobe usually takes difficult last shots.

If it was LeBron, he would pass the difficult shots to another player to miss, just to stat pad himself. And only take the easy shots. Otherwise he is passing it for someone else to fail.

[DMAVS41]

Can you tell me by what version of the english language was any shot he took tonight a game winning opportunity?

Game winner means....

Any shot to tie or take the lead. Do I really have to spell out the accepted criteria to you?

You really want to debate semantics?

I don't care what you call it. Call it a game tying shot. Doesn't matter. It still falls in the category of what I've debated here for 2 years now.

At some point you clowns might have to jump off that sinking ship....

[bmulls]

Can you tell me by what version of the english language was any shot he took tonight a game winning opportunity?

You know what he means. The game was in his hands, he lost it.

[RazorBaLade]

Game winner means....

Any shot to tie or take the lead. Do I really have to spell out the accepted criteria to you?

You really want to debate semantics?

I don't care what you call it. Call it a game tying shot. Doesn't matter. It still falls in the category of what I've debated here for 2 years now.

At some point you clowns might have to jump off that sinking ship....

It'd be like trying to lump 50 fters in with 3 pters. It makes no sense, I don't care if its done that way or not, I'm here to do it logically.

I don't like a stat that puts as much emphasis on a shot down 3 to tie as a shot where both teams are tied and theres virtually no pressure. That doesnt make sense to me. I dont like it at all.

[RazorBaLade]

You know what he means. The game was in his hands, he lost it.

He could have *saved* the game, not *won* it. I think there is a distinction. I think the saving type shots are historically much tougher to make and if you want to talk about him missing this one then fine, but its not just your standard game winner to be compared with taking a shot when both teams are tied.

[jlip]

Not a Kobe fan at all, but frankly he is the primary reason the Lakers even had a chance to tie or win the game. Yes he missed the game tying shot, but he was clutch tonight.

[DMAVS41]

It'd be like trying to lump 50 fters in with 3 pters. It makes no sense, I don't care if its done that way or not, I'm here to do it logically.

I don't like a stat that puts as much emphasis on a shot down 3 to tie as a shot where both teams are tied and theres virtually no pressure. That doesnt make sense to me. I dont like it at all.

Nah...because then you are getting too specific. The goal of any metric is to get the most data within reason.

I think shots to tie or take the lead in the last 24 seconds of games is a pretty damn reasonable criteria for "game winner"....

But that is just me. There I go using that damn thing called logic again...

[chazzy]

Game winner means....

Any shot to tie or take the lead. Do I really have to spell out the accepted criteria to you?

Well technically ESPN doesn't count FGs when down by 3


Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds

[DMAVS41]

Not a Kobe fan at all, but frankly he is the primary reason the Lakers even had a chance to tie or win the game. Yes he missed the game tying shot, but he was clutch tonight.


Is anyone disputing the bold?

[tmacattack33]

Eh, I wouldn't consider a missed 3 when your down 3 to be in the same category as the other "game winning" shots (down by 2, down by 1, tie ball game, or up by 1...under 24 seconds left in the game).

When you need a 3 and the other team knows it, it's very hard to get a shot. Denver pretty much knew that a 3 was coming. Sure, LA could have went for the quick 2, but the chances of that were slim with only 12 seconds left in the game.

And i don't even like Kobe. But it's hard to make that shot.

I'd keep him at 7-26.

[LBJMVP]

You know what he means. The game was in his hands, he lost it.


he lost it?

he made four of the toughest shots ever to bring the lakers back from 15 down.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

oh god... that is just hating at it's most extreme. who can seriously say they watched this game and say kobe wasn't clutch?

[DMAVS41]

Well technically ESPN doesn't count FGs when down by 3

They did in their playoff metric I believe. And Chasing23.com does.

You can categorize it however you want. Call it a big shot for under 24 seconds for all I care.

What I do know is that your camp is not looking good. Unless of course you are ready to admit that Kobe is not as good as Dirk and Carmelo in game winning situations.

A simple admission would be fine as well.

:lol

[Bladers]

Well technically ESPN doesn't count FGs when down by 3

Plus Kobe's shot was at 28 secs.
Gino disappointing. :oldlol:

[RazorBaLade]

Eh, I wouldn't consider a missed 3 when your down 3 to be in the same category as the other "game winning" shots (down by 2, down by 1, or tie ball game...under 24 seconds left in the game).

When you need a 3 and the other team knows it, it's very hard to get a shot. Denver pretty much knew that a 3 was coming. Sure, LA could have went for the quick 2, but the chances of that were slim with only 12 seconds left in the game.

And i don't even like Kobe. But it's hard to make that shot.

I'd keep him at 7-26.

Agreed. But you can uise it either way.. its not like 7-26 or 7-27 is legacy changing.

Fact of the matter is this was another chance to be better than jordan, in a long line of chances, and kobe never goes all the way. It hurts to say it but its true. He can only give you 90, 95% of jordan at his very best. I just cant believe he did so much tonight and then misses a layup and 2 threes. I just cant believe it.

this was the kind of game that our grandchildren would find on a stored HDD backup of inside hoops from 2012 and be shocked by the level of trolling that was accomplished by me bladers etc etc. So close.

[DMAVS41]

Plus Kobe's shot was at 28 secs.
Gino disappointing. :oldlol:

Not it wasn't. What the **** are you talking about?

[bmulls]

Plus Kobe's shot was at 28 secs.
Gino disappointing. :oldlol:

The 3 was in the final 10 seconds.

[LakersReign]

Not a Kobe fan at all, but frankly he is the primary reason the Lakers even had a chance to tie or win the game. Yes he missed the game tying shot, but he was clutch tonight.


The know nothing about basketball idiots don't really care. you could tell they never even bothered to watch the game. Their main goal is to run in here saying "duh huh...duh huh....duh huh....duh huh....duh huh.....Kobe sucks....he bricked another gamewinner...."duh huh...duh huh....duh huh....duh huh....duh huh." Then expect people to take them seriously.:facepalm

[Bladers]

Not it wasn't. What the **** are you talking about?


Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds

0:28 98-96 Kobe Bryant misses 4-foot two point shot

2 points and under 24 seconds.

Like I said you disappointing son. :oldlol:

[amfirst]

He could have *saved* the game, not *won* it. I think there is a distinction. I think the saving type shots are historically much tougher to make and if you want to talk about him missing this one then fine, but its not just your standard game winner to be compared with taking a shot when both teams are tied.

Yea, but do u think a player like LeBron would take a shot like that. Hell no, he would take a shot unless he was wide open. A difficult shot like that he would pass it to someone else to miss and that's why stats don't matter because some people like LeBron would intentionally play to make his percentage look good. That's why Kobe is a champion unlike some of these stat padders in the NBA. He plays to win. Not for stats.

[bmulls]

he lost it?

he made four of the toughest shots ever to bring the lakers back from 15 down.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

oh god... that is just hating at it's most extreme. who can seriously say they watched this game and say kobe wasn't clutch?

If Lebron had a great game and missed/passed the final shot, there would be 20 threads on ISH and every single one of you mfers would be in there bashing him.

[bmulls]

0:28 98-96 Kobe Bryant misses 4-foot two point shot

2 points and under 24 seconds.

Like I said you disappointing son. :oldlol:

Did you even watch the game?

:facepalm

[ihoopallday]

The know nothing about basketball idiots don't really care. you could tell they never even bothered to watch the game. Their main goal is to run in here saying "duh huh...duh huh....duh huh....duh huh....duh huh.....Kobe sucks....he bricked another gamewinner...."duh huh...duh huh....duh huh....duh huh....duh huh." Then expect people to take them seriously.:facepalm

Wow, LakersReign is back on this thread? Oh ya, why'd you delete your posts earlier today? Just curious.:lol

[RazorBaLade]

If Lebron had a great game and missed/passed the final shot, there would be 20 threads on ISH and every single one of you mfers would be in there bashing him.

I dont know if you've noticed by now but the only way to silence everyone is to win.

[DMAVS41]

0:28 98-96 Kobe Bryant misses 4-foot two point shot

2 points and under 24 seconds.

Like I said you disappointing son. :oldlol:

I don't care how you categorize it. Kobe missed a shot to tie or take the lead in the final 24 seconds.

He's now 7-27 for his career in the playoffs. He's missed his last 6. He's made 31% in the regular season.

Those are just the facts. Sorry you don't like those facts....

[LakersReign]

If Lebron had a great game and missed/passed the final shot, there would be 20 threads on ISH and every single one of you mfers would be in there bashing him.

You can really tell when morons who didn't even bother to watch the game, just come up in here cuz they CLEARLY have nothing better to do.:hammerhead:

[L8k3r5]

http://www.troll.me/images/obama-isnt-happy/when-are-you-just-going-to-stfu.jpg

[LBJMVP]

If Lebron had a great game and missed/passed the final shot, there would be 20 threads on ISH and every single one of you mfers would be in there bashing him.

no there wouldn't... the only reason so many threads are made is because lebron either has a phenomenal 4th quarter and then never ever steps up to take the final shot, or he has a miserable 4th quarter and doesn't shoot the last shot...

everyone always gives give lebron props for his great 4th quarter and then give him shit cause he never steps ups... i can guarantee that no one would make a thread about lebron missing a final shot if he played a great 4th quarter, unless it was an airball or somthing.

in fact, the first thread that will be made will probly be called "lebron finally takes the last shot"

[ihoopallday]

no there wouldn't... the only reason so many threads are made is because lebron either has a phenomenal 4th quarter and then never ever steps up to take the final shot, or he has a miserable 4th quarter and doesn't shoot the last shot...

everyone always gives give lebron props for his great 4th quarter and then give him shit cause he never steps ups... i can guarantee that no one would make a thread about lebron missing a final shot if he played a great 4th quarter, unless it was an airball or somthing.

in fact, the first thread that will be made will probly be called "lebron finally takes the last shot"

People on here giving LeBron credit. Lmao I think you're on the wrong website. You're crazy if you truly believe people on here will give him credit for anything. They rejoice whenever he makes any mistakes.

[LakersReign]

:roll: @dmavs getting owned so bad in here. He ran away cryin' like a little girl to go post in another thread.:roll:

[RazorBaLade]

People on here giving LeBron credit. Lmao I think you're on the wrong website. You're crazy if you truly believe people on here will give him credit for anything. They rejoice whenever he makes any mistakes.

Its not like theres a ton of heat fans here.. its fairly balanced. You expect laker fans to want him to succeed? If he missed every shot from here on out I'd sleep like a baby. laker mavs okc bos etc etc all want him to choke because we want our team to win. why would it be anything else?

[ihoopallday]

:roll: @dmavs getting owned so bad in here. He ran away cryin' like a little girl to go post in another thread.:roll:

Didn't you do the same thing earlier when I called you out? You even deleted your posts :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

:roll: @dmavs getting owned so bad in here. He ran away cryin' like a little girl to go post in another thread.:roll:

You saying something does not make it true. How can someone be "owned" when all they are doing is posting factual data?

Kobe is 7-27 on these shots for his career in the playoffs. He's missed his last 6.

Those are facts. Whether or not they mean anything at all is up for debate. And I would never say Kobe isn't clutch. In fact, I've repeatedly said the opposite. He's been one of the most clutch players of this era and certainly one of the best ever.

His rep is just overblown...especially his rep as a shot maker in these situations. Which I've been saying for 2 years now.

Funny how everyone flamed me constantly about making such claims. Now? Not so much....:rockon:

[ihoopallday]

Its not like theres a ton of heat fans here.. its fairly balanced. You expect laker fans to want him to succeed? If he missed every shot from here on out I'd sleep like a baby. laker mavs okc bos etc etc all want him to choke because we want our team to win. why would it be anything else?

I don't expect Laker fans or any fans outside of Miami to want them to succeed. Lol that defeats the whole purpose of being a fan in the first place. What's annoying is all the overreaction threads opposing fans make everytime someone outside their team fails.

[thelucifer69]

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg569/luxife69/KobeMissedGW.gif

To be continue

[RazorBaLade]

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg569/luxife69/KobeMissedGW.gif

**** you mother****er

[LakersReign]

You saying something does not make it true. How can someone be "owned" when all they are doing is posting factual data?

Kobe is 7-27 on these shots for his career in the playoffs. He's missed his last 6.

Those are facts. Whether or not they mean anything at all is up for debate. And I would never say Kobe isn't clutch. In fact, I've repeatedly said the opposite. He's been one of the most clutch players of this era and certainly one of the best ever.

His rep is just overblown...especially his rep as a shot maker in these situations. Which I've been saying for 2 years now.

Funny how everyone flamed me constantly about making such claims. Now? Not so much....:rockon:

Blah....blah...blah....blah...blah...blah(yawn) :sleeping

You only ran back in here to save face like you always do. You're not even trying to make this a challenge, cuz you're way too predictable. Same sh*t different day. Get some new material. Holla back when you can say exactly the same thing about your OBVIOUS boy Lebron.:sleeping

[Artillery]

Blah....blah...blah....blah...blah...blah(yawn) :sleeping

You only ran back in here to save face like you always do. You're not even trying to make this a challenge, cuz you're way too predictable. Same sh*t different day. Get some new material. Holla back when you can say exactly the same thing about your OBVIOUS boy Lebron.:sleeping

Mav fan brings up a good point and shitty Laker fan, in predictable fashion, ignores it and adds nothing to the argument.

[LakersReign]

bwink, log in with your real account.:sleeping

:roll: @this pathetic goof(32dayz) who thinks I'm somehow supposed to be scared of his intimidating clown "sock puppet" posse. That includes 2 of the dumbest people on the forum like pauk and lebron23. Who NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON ISH takes seriously. So, keep bumping this pathetic fail all you want. I have no doubt that the only people who are going to respond to you, are more of the dumbest people on here. Or you continuing to talk to yourself and agree with yourself cuz you think your "sock puppets" are real people.

This truly is the best you can do after posting that tired delusional hot garbage(that nobody with an ounce of common sense cares about or would even bother to read cuz they're on here to talk about the NBA on an NBA forum), over and over and over for the last 5 months....isn't it?

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif


OAN: Back on topic: http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-gm-survey/index.html

ETHER!!!:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

/thread

[glidedrxlr22]

LakersReign choking more than Kobe last night......priceless. :cheers:

[Punpun]

So wait, did this thread BACKFIRE terribly on his OP ? Colour me surprised. :oldlol:

[jstern]

So wait, did this thread BACKFIRE terribly on his OP ? Colour me surprised. :oldlol:

I don't think that the OPs mind would change after one game. Especially considering that Kobe missed his last three clutch shots. 3 great 3s before that though. (Reminded me of Carmelo :oldlol: )

But it's like what I say, watching a game with a Kobe fanboy, Kobe would miss like 10 shots in a row, and then he hits a beautiful fadeaway, and then it's like "Kobe is the greatest of all time." That last shot was proof of it and everything before that completely forgotten. Denial.

[bsyde82]

I'm sure it's happened numerous times before, but does anyone have a clip of MJ singlehandedly (or 90% like KB last night) leading a last minute furious rally with a barrage of buckets in the playoffs? And actually complete the comeback?

I have to admit, as a KB fan it sucks to watch him fall just short after an amazing barrage of 3s, because I've seen it before. In my biased opinion, it's just too much to ask of one man, even if it's Kobe, to singlehandedly lead a comeback like that. The Clippers rally against the Grizz was led by a bunch of role players in addition to cp3. Sessions did hit one 3, but that's the only contribution in any apsect that I can remember from any non-Kobe laker during that rally.

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm sure it's happened numerous times before, but does anyone have a clip of MJ singlehandedly (or 90% like KB last night) leading a last minute furious rally with a barrage of buckets in the playoffs? And actually complete the comeback?

I have to admit, as a KB fan it sucks to watch him fall just short after an amazing barrage of 3s, because I've seen it before. In my biased opinion, it's just too much to ask of one man, even if it's Kobe, to singlehandedly lead a comeback like that. The Clippers rally against the Grizz was led by a bunch of role players in addition to cp3. Sessions did hit one 3, but that's the only contribution in any apsect that I can remember from any non-Kobe laker during that rally.


MJ has done it many times as has Kobe...

Kobe has done it more times then Jordan(leading a comeback win with a barrage of shots)....i'm positive of it.

MJ has failed many times in the post season....he used to get merked on the daily by more expeirienced teams...but we choose to forget his failures and remeber his glory..

[jstern]

I'm sure it's happened numerous times before, but does anyone have a clip of MJ singlehandedly (or 90% like KB last night) leading a last minute furious rally with a barrage of buckets in the playoffs? And actually complete the comeback?

I have to admit, as a KB fan it sucks to watch him fall just short after an amazing barrage of 3s, because I've seen it before. In my biased opinion, it's just too much to ask of one man, even if it's Kobe, to singlehandedly lead a comeback like that. The Clippers rally against the Grizz was led by a bunch of role players in addition to cp3. Sessions did hit one 3, but that's the only contribution in any apsect that I can remember from any non-Kobe laker during that rally.

It's happened many times. Kobe has done it in the past. Miller vs the Knicks where he hits the 3, steals the ball then hits another. Jordan last game as Bull, he scored the last 8 shots I think, including that clutch steal to hit that penetrating jab step jumper. Or that time he scored like the last 20 points to win the game against Vancouver. It happens a lot, but the latest ones always seem more vivid, so something as the Miller one, watching it now doesn't capture how it felt watching it live. Carmelo against the Bulls hitting those clutch 3s from way behind the line to send the game to over time, and then again winning the game in over time.

Like when I was 12 I remember Penny hitting clutch shot after clutch shot, and I thought it was the greatest performance ever. I was in the moment, but after many more years of watching basketball, it's just something that happens.

[jstern]

Kobe has done it more times then Jordan(leading a comeback win with a barrage of shots)....i'm positive of it.



You're an extreme Kobe fanboy. But no, the reason that Jordan was consider in the level of a god was because of his ability to turn it up at will. That mind is why he's consider the GOAT. Yet you're telling me that me that Kobe has done it many more times, when his clutch percentage is so low, and unlike other all time greats he's missing so many memorable playoff performances, compared to the other all time greats. 41% finals shooter.

[glidedrxlr22]

I'm sure it's happened numerous times before, but does anyone have a clip of MJ singlehandedly (or 90% like KB last night) leading a last minute furious rally with a barrage of buckets in the playoffs? And actually complete the comeback?

I have to admit, as a KB fan it sucks to watch him fall just short after an amazing barrage of 3s, because I've seen it before. In my biased opinion, it's just too much to ask of one man, even if it's Kobe, to singlehandedly lead a comeback like that. The Clippers rally against the Grizz was led by a bunch of role players in addition to cp3. Sessions did hit one 3, but that's the only contribution in any apsect that I can remember from any non-Kobe laker during that rally.

Props to you as a Laker fan. Well said.....:applause:

[Simple Jack]

And LakersReign avoids the question again. Jeff, I'll donate to this site to have him banned.

[KingBeasley08]

And LakersReign avoids the question again. Jeff, I'll donate to this site to have him banned.
:roll: hes ignoring all attacks at him

what a p*ssy :lol

[RazorBaLade]

You're an extreme Kobe fanboy. But no, the reason that Jordan was consider in the level of a god was because of his ability to turn it up at will. That mind is why he's consider the GOAT. Yet you're telling me that me that Kobe has done it many more times, when his clutch percentage is so low, and unlike other all time greats he's missing so many memorable playoff performances, compared to the other all time greats. 41% finals shooter.

thats stupid... someone who can turn it on at will doesnt miss half his gw shots and loses in the playoffs. he got swept twice. turn it on at will bro!

jordan was the best at it, sure, but lets not make him out to be some sort of he can choose to win any game at any time god.

[Nevaeh]

MJ has done it many times as has Kobe...

Kobe has done it more times then Jordan(leading a comeback win with a barrage of shots)....i'm positive of it.

MJ has failed many times in the post season....he used to get merked on the daily by more expeirienced teams...but we choose to forget his failures and remeber his glory..

Kobe took 32 shots to get 43 points last night in a LOSS. "Barrage of Shots" is right.
:oldlol:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118

[chazzy]

Kobe took 32 shots to get 43 points last night in a LOSS. "Barrage of Shots" is right.
:oldlol:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118
That's good efficiency :oldlol:

[Calabis]

I'm sure it's happened numerous times before, but does anyone have a clip of MJ singlehandedly (or 90% like KB last night) leading a last minute furious rally with a barrage of buckets in the playoffs? And actually complete the comeback?

I have to admit, as a KB fan it sucks to watch him fall just short after an amazing barrage of 3s, because I've seen it before. In my biased opinion, it's just too much to ask of one man, even if it's Kobe, to singlehandedly lead a comeback like that. The Clippers rally against the Grizz was led by a bunch of role players in addition to cp3. Sessions did hit one 3, but that's the only contribution in any apsect that I can remember from any non-Kobe laker during that rally.

Uhh yes, go watch his last finals game with Bulls, 16 fourth quarter points, the final 8 Bulls points in the last 2 minutes, key steal and game winner....unles your talking just hitting shots in a row?

[jstern]

thats stupid... someone who can turn it on at will doesnt miss half his gw shots and loses in the playoffs. he got swept twice. turn it on at will bro!

jordan was the best at it, sure, but lets not make him out to be some sort of he can choose to win any game at any time god.

And you're stupid for thinking that saying that Jordan turns it up at will is me saying that Jordan shoots 100% for game winners. Phil Jackson was the one who said that, but since I'm not a moron I know that Phil didn't mean that Jordan shoot's 100% game winners, but rather that he was for the most part always able to raise his game. And that doesn't mean that he's going to over come the challenge every single time, and just because a player didn't get the win at the end also doesn't mean that they didn't raise their level. Kobe raised his level, but didn't win last night, and miss his last 3 attempts, but still raised it.

[RazorBaLade]

And you're stupid for thinking that saying that Jordan turns it up at will is me saying that Jordan shoots 100% for game winners. Phil Jackson was the one who said that, but since I'm not a moron I know that Phil didn't mean that Jordan shoot's 100% game winners, but rather that he was for the most part always able to raise his game. And that doesn't mean that he's going to over come the challenge every single time, and just because a player didn't get the win at the end also doesn't mean that they didn't raise their level. Kobe raised his level, but didn't win last night, and miss his last 3 attempts, but still raised it.

I think its fair to take it how I did when I read "But no, the reason that Jordan was consider in the level of a god was because of his ability to turn it up at will. "

but if i was wrong then okay. i see what youre saying.

[bsyde82]

Uhh yes, go watch his last finals game with Bulls, 16 fourth quarter points, the final 8 Bulls points in the last 2 minutes, key steal and game winner....unles your talking just hitting shots in a row?

But were the Bulls down 15 or so with 4 or however many minutes to go? Requiring literally a barrage of 3s to even make it a game? I don't recall if the Bulls were down big in the 4th that game, although I do recall the sequence you brought up.

[RazorBaLade]

But were the Bulls down 15 or so with 4 or however many minutes to go? Requiring literally a barrage of 3s to even make it a game? I don't recall if the Bulls were down big in the 4th that game, although I do recall the sequence you brought up.

really this game was just unique. Simply unique. I wasn't even 1/1000th as mad at the game in boston 2 yrs ago where he made like 9 shots in a row in the 3rd but they never got any stops so it just stayed a 12 point lead as I am at this game. It was so close to being the best moment I've ever seen.

Down 14, hopeless, stunned, make 4 threes in a row and get the team so close. It can't even be comprehended, and so rare...

[bsyde82]

really this game was just unique. Simply unique. I wasn't even 1/1000th as mad at the game in boston 2 yrs ago where he made like 9 shots in a row in the 3rd but they never got any stops so it just stayed a 12 point lead as I am at this game. It was so close to being the best moment I've ever seen.

Down 14, hopeless, stunned, make 4 threes in a row and get the team so close. It can't even be comprehended, and so rare...

Yea, it really was a barrage literally out of nowhere, something I haven't seen in a long time, at least not in that game situation. And I hear you, I was oh so very disappointed he wasn't able to finish it, not just as a Kobe fan, but as a general fan of seeing crazy shit in sports happen. If it weren't for Andre Miller's veteran guile, I think Denver would've crumpled. That bucket to put them back up 5 was pretty big in at least stemming the momentum for a second even though Kobe went right back and a hit a 3....which should've been the game tying 3. :mad:

[RazorBaLade]

Yea, it really was a barrage literally out of nowhere, something I haven't seen in a long time, at least not in that game situation. And I hear you, I was oh so very disappointed he wasn't able to finish it, not just as a Kobe fan, but as a general fan of seeing crazy shit in sports happen. If it weren't for Andre Miller's veteran guile, I think Denver would've crumpled. That bucket to put them back up 5 was pretty big in at least stemming the momentum for a second even though Kobe went right back and a hit a 3....which should've been the game tying 3. :mad:

I still haven't even come close to getting over it. Yeah the andre bank shot? That was a hell of a shot. I don't even know man. Tomorrow can't come fast enough, thats the only way I'll forget this.

We came just a few inches short (or too long, heh) of seeing honestly the greatest individual comeback in history IMO. I can't think of a time when anything is better.

I mean you have the tmac and the reggie tons of points in a few seconds, but that wasnt by a player of kobes caliber so it kind of gets downplayed but even then those were all so fast that there wasn't any time to think about it or process it but we saw it in slow motion.. Just a guy coming down and making every single shot to get his team back in the game. Just as a fan of crazy shit happening, seriously, that was amazing.

but he didnt make the last one. sigh.

[talkingconch]

Bringing this up in his 16th season?

Nice try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZuReGlBNro&feature=related

[Droid101]

Up to the February 28 games, as of this writing. The table below shows the results of my Shot Finder query with the following criteria: regular season or playoffs, fourth quarter or overtime, 0:05 or less remaining, shot to tie or to take the lead. If the shot misses, you lose the game.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/03/120305-clutchshooting.jpg

http://crow202.org/2009/bears_repeating.jpg

[Jameerthefear]

bump.

[no pun intended]

bump.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/762a56bbb1af46e53b3e766a78d33faf/tumblr_mhcvroo5Uz1qcmw6lo1_400.gif

[TheMarkMadsen]

bump.

Brb bumping the 2009 Orlando magic championship thread

[Jameerthefear]

Bump.

[coin24]

Bump.

:roll: :roll:

Life crusader.. Go outside f@ggot