A challenge for Loki

[lovethetriangle]

Loki,

I have consistently read your posts and I must give you props for your extensive basketball knowledge, X's and O's expertise, and superior sentence construction.

However, I believe that even when you try so very hard to make it sound like your about to give the tiniest ounce of credit, you continuously negate yourself with even more hating.

Although you don't get much respect in this forum, I applaud your relentlessness and dedication toward one ideal, the sucking of Kobe Bryant and the Los Angeles Lakers.

Therefore, in order to earn unanimous respect from this forum, and to make all that effort you put in to good use, I challenge you to 'hate' on the following players and teams for at least 3 games succeedingly:

1. Wade - Heat
2. Nash - Suns
3. Dirk - Mavs
4. Gil - Wiz
5. Bron - Cavs

I challenge you to relentlessly criticize these guys with your immense basketball knowledge and expertise. If you are able to do this, it may earn you some props...If you are a fan of any of these guys, that's your problem.

I am quite buzzed at the moment so I hope when I read this tomorrow it will make sense.

Cheers.

[hotsizzle]

i think loki believes that kobe is better than all those guys...so he actually gives kobe alot of credit but sometimes you could see hate in his arguements no doubt...like the lakers' lucky 25 games they won this yr haha

[Loki]

Laker fans are so sad. I have Faker fans in the other thread REFUSING to concede the point that LA played superbly offensively while Kobe was on the bench tonight, because they're clinging to the mistaken notion that Kobe "facilitated" the whole shebang, even when he was on the bench or being passive on the weakside.


(for the record, he facilitated a lot tonight, but it's clear that he was not responsible for ALL of LA's hot shooting -- and how could he be when he was on the bench? This is all I've asked Faker fans to concede and they refuse to do so. Sad.)

[braden.]

Although you don't get much respect in this forum
Everybody who matters respects Loki on this forum.

[elementally morale]

Laker fans are so sad. I have Faker fans in the other thread REFUSING to concede the point that LA played superbly offensively while Kobe was on the bench tonight, because they're clinging to the mistaken notion that Kobe "facilitated" the whole shebang, even when he was on the bench or being passive on the weakside.


(for the record, he facilitated a lot tonight, but it's clear that he was not responsible for ALL of LA's hot shooting -- and how could he be when he was on the bench? This is all I've asked Faker fans to concede and they refuse to do so. Sad.)

What would you call an individual spending 90% of his time watching and commenting on a team and player he dislikes? Just asking because I find it sad.

[gts]

What would you call an individual spending 90% of his time watching and commenting on a team and player he dislikes? Just asking because I find it sad.

stalking...

[Loki]

What would you call an individual spending 90% of his time watching and commenting on a team and player he dislikes? Just asking because I find it sad.

What do you call a guy who has a penchant for hyperbole? 90% of my time? Please...

[lovethetriangle]

Laker fans are so sad. I have Faker fans in the other thread REFUSING to concede the point that LA played superbly offensively while Kobe was on the bench tonight, because they're clinging to the mistaken notion that Kobe "facilitated" the whole shebang, even when he was on the bench or being passive on the weakside.


(for the record, he facilitated a lot tonight, but it's clear that he was not responsible for ALL of LA's hot shooting -- and how could he be when he was on the bench? This is all I've asked Faker fans to concede and they refuse to do so. Sad.)


I agree that we had a damn good, even superlative if you'd like to call it, shooting night tonight.

Our numbers were through the roof and we shouldn't believe that this can happen consistently.

But I also believe that this is what good teams do, they have players that can step it up on any given night and we were fortunate enough to have all of them step up against the defending champions for a much needed W.

So my friend, do you accept?

[lovethetriangle]

Laker fans are so sad. I have Faker fans in the other thread REFUSING to concede the point that LA played superbly offensively while Kobe was on the bench tonight, because they're clinging to the mistaken notion that Kobe "facilitated" the whole shebang, even when he was on the bench or being passive on the weakside.


(for the record, he facilitated a lot tonight, but it's clear that he was not responsible for ALL of LA's hot shooting -- and how could he be when he was on the bench? This is all I've asked Faker fans to concede and they refuse to do so. Sad.)


They refuse because its you who said it. Like I said, you have no legitimacy. If you want 'Wade-like' love, you need to earn it.

I'm giving you that chance...

[elementally morale]

What do you call a guy who has a penchant for hyperbole? 90% of my time? Please...

At least 90% of your time spent here as far as I can tell, yes. BTW, I'm fine with you doing this. I was just asking if you think it's a great thing to do.

[picc84]

Laker fans are so sad. I have Faker fans in the other thread REFUSING to concede the point that LA played superbly offensively while Kobe was on the bench tonight, because they're clinging to the mistaken notion that Kobe "facilitated" the whole shebang, even when he was on the bench or being passive on the weakside.


(for the record, he facilitated a lot tonight, but it's clear that he was not responsible for ALL of LA's hot shooting -- and how could he be when he was on the bench? This is all I've asked Faker fans to concede and they refuse to do so. Sad.)

I've repeatedly said that the supporting cast is solid and talented and capable of playing w/o him for stretches. In that very same thread. What you chose to do was focus on my qualifying it by saying he's not the ONLY superstar to ever have that.

[gts]

all kidding aside Loki. what is it that you hate the lakers for?

[ElPigto]

As long as Loki gots Yao back, I'll respect him.

[Loki]

I agree that we had a damn good, even superlative if you'd like to call it, shooting night tonight.

Our numbers were through the roof and we shouldn't believe that this can happen consistently.

An honest Laker fan -- who'da thunk it? :D

[lovethetriangle]

I've repeatedly said that the supporting cast is solid and talented and capable of playing w/o him for stretches. In that very same thread. What you chose to do was focus on my qualifying it by saying he's not the ONLY superstar to ever have that.


This is exactly my point. You choose particular words and phrases and magnify it in order to sustain your hating. You are a microcosm of sensationalism.

Fix up your act buddy.

[Loki]

all kidding aside Loki. what is it that you hate the lakers for?

Many, many reasons. A lot of it is Kobe, but it's also how fortunate they've been with acquisitions etc. Things always seem to pan out for LA. Seriously -- have they ever been truly out of the hunt for more than a 2-3 year period since the inception of the league? Not to my recollection.

[hotsizzle]

Many, many reasons. A lot of it is Kobe, but it's also how fortunate they've been with acquisitions etc. Things always seem to pan out for LA. Seriously -- have they ever been truly out of the hunt for more than a 2-3 year period since the inception of the league? Not to my recollection.

its not called fortunate if it has been there since the inception of the L, its called greatness.

i assume your hate for kobe comes from his personality more than anything else?

[lovethetriangle]

An honest Laker fan -- who'da thunk it? :D

There's quite a few of us if you just took time to look.

[gts]

Many, many reasons. A lot of it is Kobe, but it's also how fortunate they've been with acquisitions etc. Things always seem to pan out for LA. Seriously -- have they ever been truly out of the hunt for more than a 2-3 year period since the inception of the league? Not to my recollection. so because they are a well run orginazation, that doesn't have the biggest salary, that finds players that others don't want and gets the most out of them, they are to be hated...hmm in my world success is to be admired...

[braden.]

People oft don't like it when one team dominantes or is in the hunt for a chip every single year. I know I hate the Yankees.

[lovethetriangle]

People oft don't like it when one team dominantes or is in the hunt for a chip every single year. I know I hate the Yankees.


Then hate the triumph seekers, the bandwagoners. Don't hate on the diehards that understand the game.

[Loki]

so because they are a well run orginazation, that doesn't have the biggest salary, that finds players that others don't want and gets the most out of them, they are to be hated...hmm in my world success is to be admired...

Not when a great deal of that success is simply due to location (i.e., LA's glitz attracting top flight talent). Vancouver could have the same quality of scouting and management and not be nearly as successful.

[gts]

Not when a great deal of that success is simply due to location (i.e., LA's glitz attracting top flight talent). Vancouver could have the same quality of scouting and management and not be nearly as successful.

err then whats new yorks excuse?

[braden.]

They habitually trade for talented players with enormous salaries that won't mesh?

[EricForman]

i'll share my view--


I live in LA and I too am a anti Kobe/Laker guy. But this truly has nothing to do with me being a fan of Jordan (cause I also like Lebron, GP, Iverson, etc, etc).

My dislike for Kobe started in 1998 when he waved off that pick by Karl Malone during an All Star game (a game he shouldn't have even been in) and jacked up shots left and right. It was so bad George Karl benched him for the 4th quarter.

I also disliked Shaq for his usual big mouth and making RIDICULOUS statements (such as saying "he killed Jordan" in the playoffs, referring to the 4-2 victory. If 4-2 is "killing". then what does that make of the 4-0 Jordangave back to him the year after? )

I dislike Phil Jackson because he say sh*t out of his ass for no reason other than to get attention. There was no reason for him to insult the city of Sacramento. He writes a book about how uncoachable Kobe is and then goes back and coach him? Shaq is right the dude is Benedict Arnold.

My dislike for Kobe continued when he was insanely overrated, such as people claiming "the Lakers have the two best player in the game" starting back in 2000, when Kobe wasn't even a top 20 player. He was routinely outplayed by Jalen Rose and Bonzi Wells throughout the playoffs but NO ONE REMEMBERS. Casual fans will remember his alley oop to Shaq and his 6 points in OT and think dude was a superstar and equally responsible for the title as Shaq.

Kobe's insanely ridiculous hype continues when Laker fans (I will get to them later) declared Kobe to be "better at 22 than Jordan was at 22". I know the talk has died down the last few years, but between 01 to 04, alot of Laker fans really believed Kobe to be equal or better than Jordan.

Which brings me to the Laker fans. I know there are true diehards. But I'd have to say Lakers has the most bandwagon fans in the country. LA also has the most "casual fans"-- people that don't reallly LOVE the sport, but is into the Lakers because it's "the cool thing to". People go to games not because they like basketball, but because they want to be seen.

I dislike the Lakers broadcasting team on Kcal 9 for their ridiculous biased coverage of the game. Stu Lantz is a hypocrite and moron for the things he say.

I dislike Kobe for the numerous temper trantrums he has thrown on the court, such as when he refused to shoot backin 04 agasinst Sacramento because Malone and Shaq asked him to tone down his shots earlier in the day. I remember Kobe getting back to back triple doubles at the beginning of the 03 season (when Shaq missed the early parts of the year), in the third game Kobe BLATANTLY tried to get a triple double by passing up every shot and making stupid unnecessary passes. The Lakers ended up losing to the Cavs (Pre-Lebron, the worse team in the league at the time).


So there you have it. But Im' reasonable. I never once used the "rap*st" thing on Kobe because it's unfair. I don't make stupid claims like "Manu is better than Kobe" or "he's the least clutch player in the league". I give him respect. But I'm the first (well probably second, behind Loki) to point out any contradictions or stupid homerisms of some of the dumb Laker fans on this board. (like Eliteballer)

[Loki]

err then whats new yorks excuse?

The different salary structure (i.e., no cap) and the fact that Steinbrenner has bottomless pockets to lure FA's due to his various marketing deals? :confusedshrug:

[Loki]

i'll share my view--


I live in LA and I too am a anti Kobe/Laker guy. But this truly has nothing to do with me being a fan of Jordan (cause I also like Lebron, GP, Iverson, etc, etc).

My dislike for Kobe started in 1998 when he waved off that pick by Karl Malone during an All Star game (a game he shouldn't have even been in) and jacked up shots left and right. It was so bad George Karl benched him for the 4th quarter.

I also disliked Shaq for his usual big mouth and making RIDICULOUS statements (such as saying "he killed Jordan" in the playoffs, referring to the 4-2 victory. If 4-2 is "killing". then what does that make of the 4-0 Jordangave back to him the year after? )

I dislike Phil Jackson because he say sh*t out of his ass for no reason other than to get attention. There was no reason for him to insult the city of Sacramento. He writes a book about how uncoachable Kobe is and then goes back and coach him? Shaq is right the dude is Benedict Arnold.

My dislike for Kobe continued when he was insanely overrated, such as people claiming "the Lakers have the two best player in the game" starting back in 2000, when Kobe wasn't even a top 20 player. He was routinely outplayed by Jalen Rose and Bonzi Wells throughout the playoffs but NO ONE REMEMBERS. Casual fans will remember his alley oop to Shaq and his 6 points in OT and think dude was a superstar and equally responsible for the title as Shaq.

Kobe's insanely ridiculous hype continues when Laker fans (I will get to them later) declared Kobe to be "better at 22 than Jordan was at 22". I know the talk has died down the last few years, but between 01 to 04, alot of Laker fans really believed Kobe to be equal or better than Jordan.

Which brings me to the Laker fans. I know there are true diehards. But I'd have to say Lakers has the most bandwagon fans in the country. LA also has the most "casual fans"-- people that don't reallly LOVE the sport, but is into the Lakers because it's "the cool thing to". People go to games not because they like basketball, but because they want to be seen.

I dislike the Lakers broadcasting team on Kcal 9 for their ridiculous biased coverage of the game. Stu Lantz is a hypocrite and moron for the things he say.

I dislike Kobe for the numerous temper trantrums he has thrown on the court, such as when he refused to shoot backin 04 agasinst Sacramento because Malone and Shaq asked him to tone down his shots earlier in the day. I remember Kobe getting back to back triple doubles at the beginning of the 03 season (when Shaq missed the early parts of the year), in the third game Kobe BLATANTLY tried to get a triple double by passing up every shot and making stupid unnecessary passes. The Lakers ended up losing to the Cavs (Pre-Lebron, the worse team in the league at the time).


So there you have it. But Im' reasonable. I never once used the "rap*st" thing on Kobe because it's unfair. I don't make stupid claims like "Manu is better than Kobe" or "he's the least clutch player in the league". I give him respect. But I'm the first (well probably second, behind Loki) to point out any contradictions or stupid homerisms of some of the dumb Laker fans on this board. (like Eliteballer)

This is EXACTLY why I dislike Kobe/LA, along with other stuff like Kobe's demanding a trade to LA as a rookie fresh out of HS, his "no trade clause," his on the court antics/gestures even in his first few seasons, his to-the-letter pilfering of Jordan's entire repertoire/mannerisms etc.

Mostly, I hate that he thinks that he's better than he is -- and I say that as someone who had him as #1 in the league last season, top 3-4 this season, and top 22-26 all-time even prior to this season.

[hotsizzle]

Eric, I dont think you could really blame laker fans for saying hes equal or better than jordan at 22...if my memory serves correct...the media was thriving for the next jordan and kobe's style of play heavily promoted that. I remember magazines with "jordan wasnt this good at 19"...and all that. Kobe from the moment he stepped foot on the basketball court...the media, and alot of fans instantly wanted to crown him the next jordan...and IMO, kobe bought into the hype a little...everyone knew he was gonna be big and everyone wanted to relive the jordan era

[magic chiongson]

The different salary structure (i.e., no cap) and the fact that Steinbrenner has bottomless pockets to lure FA's due to his various marketing deals? :confusedshrug:


he meant the knicks

[elementally morale]

I hate that he thinks that he's better than he is

How do you know what he thinks? You hate what you think he thinks of himself, right? Also, I have to think Kobe is playing better this year than last.

[elementally morale]

Eric, I dont think you could really blame laker fans for saying hes equal or better than jordan at 22...if my memory serves correct...the media was thriving for the next jordan and kobe's style of play heavily promoted that. I remember magazines with "jordan wasnt this good at 19"...and all that. Kobe from the moment he stepped foot on the basketball court...the media, and alot of fans instantly wanted to crown him the next jordan...and IMO, kobe bought into the hype a little...everyone knew he was gonna be big and everyone wanted to relive the jordan era

Kobe surely bought into his own hype back then, but how can you blame him? He was 20 and change and already a multimilionaire regularly aired on national TV, several championships, magazine covers and so on. I think it took him a few years to realize how good he really is, and I honestly don't think he ranks gimslef higher all-time than Loki ranks him (top 25). I wouldn't even go that far, not at this point at least.

[Loki]

How do you know what he thinks? You hate what you think he thinks of himself, right? Also, I have to think Kobe is playing better this year than last.

Statements he's made. Statements made by others who are close to him (Phil, Tex etc.). How he comes off in interviews and on the court. It doesn't take a genius.

[elementally morale]

Statements he's made.

Please tell me more.


Statements made by others who are close to him (Phil, Tex etc.). How he comes off in interviews and on the court.

Statements others made are not reflecting what he thinks of himself but what others thought of him, unless the staments are about what he told them he thinks of himself. Also, people do change over time and I think Bryant has changed quite a bit. Anyway, what kind of statements were you thinking of?


It doesn't take a genius.

It sure doesn't, that's why I'm asking you instead of asking a genius.

[Loki]

[QUOTE=Tex Winter]

[Loki]

It sure doesn't, that's why I'm asking you instead of asking a genius.

:oldlol:

Touche, Salto. :D


We're never going to agree about how despicable/benign Kobe is, so I'll drop it.

[elementally morale]

[QUOTE]"

[elementally morale]

:oldlol: We're never going to agree about how despicable/benign Kobe is, so I'll drop it.

I agree with you on more things than I don't agree on - even regarding Bryant. I'm just not sure it does you much good focusing on him all the time. I really really disliked (and still dislike) Jordan. I adore him but I don't like him one bit. He is an azz in my eyes. So what? You rarely see me discussing this.

Jordan didn't entertain me the same way Kobe does and it has more to do with the fact that Kobe's faults entertain me (which is true) than with the fact that Jordan's greatness didn' touch me (which is not true). I think Isiah Thomas is an even greater azzhole than Jordan - but Thomas also entertained me a lot more.

Anyway, it happens. Some people we don't like. But why are you spending so much time on a topic that gives you goose bumps? That I can't understand.

[bence23]

I don't think you can blame any 20-year-old that wants to be the best of all time at anything. Some will admit it others won't - but at one time in our lives we all wanted to be the best at something. Not the best 'we could be', but the ultimate best. Most people outgrow this and later even realize that there is no such thing as 'best'. There are certain points of views and certain considerations but there is no ultimate best.



That I agree with. But Tex Winter was what, 75 when he said this? And Kobe was what? 20? 21? 22? C'mon. Kobe will grow up. The one guy who will never grow up is Shaq - and I love him this way. Shaq doesn't have to grow up he is great the way he is. Growing up is not obligatory - but for a guy with Kobe's personality it's better growing up than not growing up. Eventually, he will.

And out of the three guys it is Phil Jackson that stinks the most. He sure grew up... and what a spoiled asssshole has he become. (And of course that takes away nothing of his coaching greatness.):roll: keep posting im dying

[lovethetriangle]

He's motivated by the desire to be the best ever -- another thing that irks me. Not motivated by a desire to be the best that HE can be (and if that turns out to be the GOAT, so be it), but rather by a desire to be the best that's ever played. I've never seen a Laker/Kobe fan who can tell the difference between these two trains of thought, and how that would play out on the court and in life, but the difference seems plain to me (and, I would assume, to many others).


What's wrong in being motivated by the desire to be the best ever? Give me one good reason why that is wrong. There are people that are uber-competitive and there are those that aren't. Apparently your not and there's nothing wrong. I'm a competitive tennis player and it is my dream to be the best player that my school/district/country has ever seen. I want to be the best poster on ISH. Why is this wrong? How is this a turn off?

I admit that i'd rather fail a test and be higher than everyone else in my class over getting a perfect score along with 20 other people. That's my nature. I want to win. Do you have a problem with that? The entire Political/Economic history of the United States is arguably based on the International Relation concept of Realism. Realism represents Self-help, Self-interest, and Statecraft. They are on the top and everyone else complains about them. You have a problem with them as well?

These are your personal opinions. How then can you hate on groupies/homers when you have your own personal biases? Your point here displays exactly why your views are purely subjective and not, in any way, and will ever will be, dogma. Therefore, you have no grounds for mocking kobe/laker fans. If he scores 62 points in three quarters, your going to say he had zero assists. You define viscious cycles. But then again, its guys like you that keep forums going.

[elementally morale]

What's wrong in being motivated by the desire to be the best ever? Give me one good reason why that is wrong. There are people that are uber-competitive and there are those that aren't.

I've got a few things to say here.

1) I'm pretty sure Jordan also wanted to be the best of the best, and so did Larry Bird. Even if you 'only' want to win a championship in the NBA you have to want being the best of the very best - as a team or individual. That's the way it goes.

2) There is no certainty. Even if you want it nothing will guarantee you will succeed. Others want the very same thing and you might just get beaten. But the less you want it the bigger the chance that you'll be defeated. It's okay not winning it or not becoming the best as a professional. But not even trying it...that's Darius Miles.

3) We all wanted to become the best at something when we were young. The very best. The ultimate winner. Even so if none of us posting on this board is as talented in anything as Kobe Bryant is in basketball. And I bet none of us has put nearly as much work into anything as he has put into basketball. And we still wanted to be the best. What makes it strange that he who is so good at something and he who was told during his teen years how much potential he has and how great he is believed that he could become the best? As far as I know he never said he was the best. All he (is reported to have) said was he wanted to become the best. Yes, floks. He is one of us. A human being. Big deal.

4) The best simply doesn't exist. To me, my mother is the best of all. But I'm pretty sure some of you wouldn't like her. And I'd be a fool if I wanted you to. And you are also fools if you want to explain me why I shouldn't like her. Two mothers can be the very best at the very same time. And at the same time there is no such thing as best in this category. This applies as well to your favorite book, movie, music, girlfreind, wife, friend and basketball player.

Once upon a time Muhammad Ali was knocked the sh!t out...

[lovethetriangle]

I've got a few things to say here.

1) I'm pretty sure Jordan also wanted to be the best of the best, and so did Larry Bird. Even if you 'only' want to win a championship in the NBA you have to want being the best of the very best - as a team or individual. That's the way it goes.

2) There is no certainty. Even if you want it nothing will guarantee you will succeed. Others want the very same thing and you might just get beaten. But the less you want it the bigger the chance that you'll be defeated. It's okay not winning it or not becoming the best as a professional. But not even trying it...that's Darius Miles.

3) We all wanted to become the best at something when we were young. The very best. The ultimate winner. Even so if none of us posting on this board is as talented in anything as Kobe Bryant is in basketball. And I bet none of us has put nearly as much work into anything as he has put into basketball. And we still wanted to be the best. What makes it strange that he who is so good at something and he who was told during his teen years how much potential he has and how great he is believed that he could become the best? As far as I know he never said he was the best. All he (is reported to have) said was he wanted to become the best. Yes, floks. He is one of us. A human being. Big deal.

4) The best simply doesn't exist. To me, my mother is the best of all. But I'm pretty sure some of you wouldn't like her. And I'd be a fool if I wanted you to. And you are also fools if you want to explain me why I shouldn't like her. Two mothers can be the very best at the very same time. And at the same time there is no such thing as best in this category. This applies as well to your favorite book, movie, music, girlfreind, wife, friend and basketball player.

Once upon a time Muhammad Ali was knocked the sh!t out...


I absolutely concur.

[DreamRockets]

those players aren't unappealling men who ran hall of famers out of town, cheat on their wifes, hand another team an nba championship by shooting like antoine walker and quit on their team on a game 7 of the playoffs, kobe deserves every ounce of hates he gets, those other players don't.

[Loki]

What's wrong in being motivated by the desire to be the best ever? Give me one good reason why that is wrong. There are people that are uber-competitive and there are those that aren't. Apparently your not and there's nothing wrong. I'm a competitive tennis player and it is my dream to be the best player that my school/district/country has ever seen. I want to be the best poster on ISH. Why is this wrong? How is this a turn off?

Because it assumes that you have the talent to be so, for one. If my quadriplegic, 90-year old aunt wants to be the best badminton player who ever lived, do you not see why that's a foolish desire? Moreover, wanting to be "the best ever" as opposed to "the best you can be" will affect how you pursue your goals, since in the former case you're chasing an external standard, which can cause you -- consciously or otherwise -- to attempt to conform your game to the standards/style set by another player rather than playing to your particular, unique strengths.

"The best ever" is for others to decide, not oneself. Just do your best, to the best of your abilities, and if others recognize you as the GOAT, then fine. But to take the above course of action is incorrect and counterproductive imo. It certainly doesn't endear him to me (I'm sure he's torn up about it, too :)).


The entire Political/Economic history of the United States is arguably based on the International Relation concept of Realism. Realism represents Self-help, Self-interest, and Statecraft. They are on the top and everyone else complains about them. You have a problem with them as well?

Now that you mention it, I do have many problems with US policy, both economic and political. But that's not germane to this discussion.


These are your personal opinions. How then can you hate on groupies/homers when you have your own personal biases? Your point here displays exactly why your views are purely subjective and not, in any way, and will ever will be, dogma.

Yeah, because Kobe fans are really objective when they start talking about how he's "as good as Jordan," or "better than Jordan" and only have recourse to subjective things like their appraisal of his "skills" (since Kobe's numbers and accomplishments are far off from Jordan's).

At least I've never tried to pass my opinion off as fact, unlike Kobe groupies.



Therefore, you have no grounds for mocking kobe/laker fans. If he scores 62 points in three quarters, your going to say he had zero assists.

Actually, I've never done that, no.

[DreamRockets]

how many assists he had that game ? :)

[Devientz]

Loki,
I agree with you that the roleplayers were hot last night. No, Kobe did not facilitate the whole game, but the only player you could argue does that is Nash. But saying it was a "lucky" win is not correct. The Lakers play (at home at least) to the level of their competition. If you notice, the Lakers hardly ever blow out their oppenents, they just play slightly above them. This has happened all season long. And everytime almost, its the "scrubs" that do it. Kobe has had 3 50+ games, but besides those, this season he has not taken over all the scoring. The roleplayers stepped up in almost every game that they were needed to and they win against the best teams in the league so to say it was lucky is bull****. The heat were hot last night, the Lakers stepped it up and won.
btw i didnt read any of the posts in here so sorry if what i said coulda been said before:D

[DreamRockets]

yeah, the lakers played well, but any win that needs an overtime against a 17-20 team involves some luck.

[picc84]

He's motivated by the desire to be the best ever -- another thing that irks me. Not motivated by a desire to be the best that HE can be (and if that turns out to be the GOAT, so be it), but rather by a desire to be the best that's ever played. I've never seen a Laker/Kobe fan who can tell the difference between these two trains of thought, and how that would play out on the court and in life, but the difference seems plain to me (and, I would assume, to many others).

Wow, so wanting to be the best ball player ever IRKS you? Never one to be struck by the ambition stick, are you loc? I've seen it all now. :roll:

[Devientz]

yeah, the lakers played well, but any win that needs an overtime against a 17-20 team involves some luck.
True i guess, but then you could also argue that every close game ever played involves some luck.

[Rasheed1]

kobe is hated because he is an arrogant pr*k.... plain & simple...

He wants to be the best...

but the problem is: he wants to be the best even if it comes at the expense of everything else..

If the best center in the game is in his way scoring and leading the team to championships...that bothers kobe because HE wants to be the best...Shaq is merely in the way..

For any true fan of the game, that is annoying to see...

then you have his fans who will go to any limit, make any argument or dumb statement to suggest that kobe is the best at something, anything...

that keeps the hate going....people would lay off kobe if he didnt have the most casual bandwagon fans in sports today... most of his fans arent concerned with the legacy of basketball as much as they are concerned with the legacy of kobe and how can kobe become the greatest ever...

its unnatural and people who love basketball can see it.

any guy who would use the basketball court to prove a point is a guy who is selfish....

not shooting against the Kings, quittin against Suns....hoggin the ball at the allstar game...

these things piss the fans off because they are an abomination to what basketball is supposed to be about...

its not hard at all to see why people dislike kobe bryant

[dejordan]

a friend and i were talking about the difference in intention between mj and kobe (specifically them because of the constant comparisons), and we basically said that it seemed like jordan wanted to win at all costs and would do anything to improve his game in a direction that would lead to rings. kobe on the other hand was winning rings early in his career, so he seemed more motivated to become the best in a historic sense. for jordan the challenge wasn't garnering individual stats and accollades, which he had early and often. the challenge was mastering the team game and defeating deep, talented teams like boston, detroit, los angeles, and portland. for kobe the challenge was to display his individual brilliance and escape shaq's shadow. that makes sense. and i guess i see why people hold it against him since it's not a "good of the team" goal, but it has driven him to become (arguably) the most skilled player in the game today. i think he's turned the corner on that now, seeing how difficult it is to compete for a crown on a team without a shaq-caliber player beside him. now those skills he's built are helping his team every night out. he can be the primary scorer, the primary set up man (he's learning lb / magic / mj's trick of doing both at once without killing himself), a defensive ace, a game manager, a late clock shot maker - whatever you need. whether it will all come together for the lakers again, i don't know, but mitch and phil are doing a good job of giving them a chance, and kobe's current skill set is versatile enough that he can fill a number of roles and plug a number of holes to allow his teammates to play to their strengths. personally i'm not a fan because he's a laker, and i grew up hating lakers, but i totally respect his game and love to watch him. if people are hating him because of off the court stuff that's fine. i don't think you can defend a guy's personality, but in terms of his on court approach, i think his history makes sense, and where he's at now is pretty hard to fault (except that fact that his explosiveness isn't all the way back from injury, but that's not a style of play issue so much as a health issue).

[Laker Logic]

Laker fans are so sad. I have Faker fans in the other thread REFUSING to concede the point that LA played superbly offensively while Kobe was on the bench tonight, because they're clinging to the mistaken notion that Kobe "facilitated" the whole shebang, even when he was on the bench or being passive on the weakside.

(for the record, he facilitated a lot tonight, but it's clear that he was not responsible for ALL of LA's hot shooting -- and how could he be when he was on the bench? This is all I've asked Faker fans to concede and they refuse to do so. Sad.)

According to the boxscore (you're familiar with boxscores, aren't you? :D ) Kobe played 44 minutes of a 53 minute game, yet you want people to "admit" the bench/roleplayers "carried" him. To say that in 9 minutes (let's double that and say 18 minutes to include the the time you say he was "being passive" on the weakside, which is bullsh!t but I'll use it for the sake of argument.) That leaves 26 minutes of productive on-court time to 18 minutes of off court (or on court) non-productive time. Regale me with your stupidity and explain to me again how he was carried.

I'll say again. You USED to be a good poster. Now you're a caricature.

[picc84]

Whats funny is that Kobe hasnt seemed arrogant nor immature for a long time. The main reasons people claim to hate him. Certainly not any moreso than players that fans continue to like despite those misqualities in them.

[Rasheed1]

Whats funny is that Kobe hasnt seemed arrogant nor immature for a long time. The main reasons people claim to hate him. Certainly not any moreso than players that fans continue to like despite those misqualities in them.


like I said....people would eventually lay off kobe if he didnt have the worst fans on the face of this planet..

when kobe is not saying dumb sh*t outta his own mouth, his fans are only too willing to pick up the slack for him...

a good majority of kobe fans (that I have spoken with anyway) are casual fans with no real history of the game or no realistic perspective on how good kobe actually is....

[picc84]

like I said....people would eventually lay off kobe if he didnt have the worst fans on the face of this planet..

when kobe is not saying dumb sh*t outta his own mouth, his fans are only too willing to pick up the slack for him...

a good majority of kobe fans (that I have spoken with anyway) are casual fans with no real history of the game or no realistic perspective on how good kobe actually is....

I agree that he has overzealous fans who should probably shut up, and some of them post here. However that is not a good reason to hate him when he has changed from his younger days and matured into a better person and a more responsible player. Its understandable, but not a good reason.

[Loki]

According to the boxscore (you're familiar with boxscores, aren't you? :D ) Kobe played 44 minutes of a 53 minute game, yet you want people to "admit" the bench/roleplayers "carried" him. To say that in 9 minutes (let's double that and say 18 minutes to include the the time you say he was "being passive" on the weakside, which is bullsh!t but I'll use it for the sake of argument.) That leaves 26 minutes of productive on-court time to 18 minutes of off court (or on court) non-productive time. Regale me with your stupidity and explain to me again how he was carried.

I'll say again. You USED to be a good poster. Now you're a caricature.

Let's recap Laker Logic's specious argument from the game thread and allow others to bask in his unwillingness to concede even the most basic points. Here was the exchange:



At least be honest, picc. Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the first 36-40 minutes of the game, which allowed him to stay fresh and close the game out, particularly defensively.

To which Laker Logic, bastion of reason, responds:


If being "carried" means "drawing double teams on nearly every possession and finding open teammates for good looks, setting the tone/table offensively for everybody else and not forcing the offense, then yes, the team "carried" Kobe.


...here insinuating that the team's hot shootng/scoring was strictly a result of Kobe's "facilitating" due to the double teams he was commanding; I replied:


Yeah, that's why LA hit nearly every shot they took when Kobe was on the bench, including a 9-0 run to start the 4th. :rolleyes: What game were you watching, LL? That's why they made plays and hit shots with Kobe spectating from the weakside (especially in the first half). Please...spare me the revisionism. Kobe: finding open teammates from the bench.:oldlol:

The point being that, while Kobe certainly did do a lot of facilitating while he was in the game (and I gave several examples of this in the game thread), there were many times (e.g., when he was on the bench, or when he wasn't involved in the play at all on the weakside) when LA's shooting proficiency had nothing to do with him. Nothing. I saw when he facilitated, but I also saw many instances where LA's hot shooting had absolutely nothing to do with him. Homers like Laker Logic would have you believe that the team's hot shooting was solely the result of Kobe's brilliance, which is clearly false based on the evidence. And what evidence do we have? Here are the numbers:


when kobe sat the lakers shot 11/19 and scored 26 points (9:13)

when kobe played the lakers shot 37/80 and scored 98 points (43:47)

As you can see, the Lakers shot a better %, scored more points per minute, and had a better point-per-shot ratio with Kobe on the bench. Apparently Kobe is the best bench facilitator in league history. He draws double-teams from the bench.

And if I could analyze the game tape, I could show -- especially in the first half -- that there were also numerous instances where he was just spectating from the weakside (not drawing doubles, not doing anything) and his teammates were making plays and making buckets. But Laker Logic -- contrary to all evidence -- wants to act as if his teammates' high scoring output last night was solely a result of Kobe's brilliance. Typical.


The fact of the matter is that Kobe's teammates scored 53 of the Lakers' 61 points at halftime, and 75 of their 88 points at the end of 3. But Laker Logic doesn't consider that "being carried" offensively. What, does a franchise player's teammates have to scored 100% (instead of 86%) of a team's points before one will admit that said player was carried offensively, which allowed him to stay fresh for the end of the game? Seems obvious to me, really...

[Laker Logic]

Loki I'll respond to this later tonight, don't have the time right now.

[Loki]

Loki I'll respond to this later tonight, don't have the time right now.

Don't bother. You're not even willing to concede when a player was carried offensively. Franchise players CAN get caried offensively in games, or for stretches of games (halves, through 3 quarters etc.). I don't see why that's so hard to admit. Apparently we can admit that Kobe carried LA offensively many times last year, but suggesting that Kobe is ever carried by his teammates (even when they're scoring 86% of the team's points through 3 quarters) is somehow wrong.


Let me ask you: if Kobe had scored 80+% of the team's points through 3 quarters, would we not hear (and have we not heard) from people that he "carried" the team offensively (e.g., 62 in 3 vs. Dallas)? Yet, unsurprisingly, you've never taken issue with such statements, yet you take issue with mine.

[elementally morale]

So let's summarize this.

1) You dont like Kobe Bryant because he has some stupid fans.
Mmmmkay. Do you hate the likes of Moses, Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad because they had some real stupid followers? Do you also hate Einstein and Heisenberg because their studies eventually led to the H-Bomb? Do you hate the sport of basketball because there are many dumb fans? Do you hate the cause or the result? Which is it? Both? Everything?

2) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he plays with an agenda.
Cool. Do you dislike Jordan for having played with tons of agendas? Or Bird for the same thing? Telling people before games and actual plays what they are gonna do next? The ultimate agenda. Do you hate these guys?

3) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he thinks he's better than he is.
I see. And what do YOU think of yourself? You think that you are worse than you are? Are you sure? Just because you say so in compay only to make others praise you? Don't you think that in the back of your minds you think that you are pretty cool and talented, too? What do you guys think of yourselves? Be honest.

4) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he was given everything at a young age.
Great. Do you also hate yourself for not being born in Middle East Africa? Do you hate that you have food, clothes, kicks, TV, MP3 player and Internet - although most of you are too young to make too much money? Do you hate yourself for having a family that gave you quite everything? Don't you think you are lucky, too?

5) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he is an underachiever w/o Shaq.
Ahem. And what did you achieve in your lives? Do you hate yourself for not having achieved everything you could or should have? Do you hate every underachiever? What about your parents? Are you sure they achieved everything they could or should have? Do you hate the CEO of Oracle for not achieving Bill Gates' status? Because it's that difference that we are talking about here.

6) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he is a prick and he doesn't deserve it.
We don't like people because they deserve it. We like them because... because we just happen to like them. We don't fall in love because our sweetheart deserves it. We don't have a hardon because that b!tch deserves it. We just have it. Even if she is a prick.

7) You don't like Kobe Bryant because you just don't like him and that's it

That's an honest answer I can live with.

[Loki]

Salto, what would constitute a valid reason for disliking Kobe in your mind? Only if he raped babies or some such? Do you or any other apologist go on a similar crusade when someone just doesn't like, say, Ben Wallace or Jason Kidd?

[Laker Logic]

Don't bother.

I wasn't asking your permission. I was telling you I'm going to respond later. Your nonsene requires it.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

Do you hate the likes of Moses, Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad because they had some real stupid followers? Do you also hate Einstein and Heisenberg because their studies eventually led to the H-Bomb? Do you hate the sport of basketball because there are many dumb fans? Do you hate the cause or the result? Which is it? Both? Everything?

:roll: @ you using that crap to help your arguement.

Never knew Kobe=Moses, Jesus, Einstein, etc.:confusedshrug:

[Rasheed1]

1) You dont like Kobe Bryant because he has some stupid fans.
Mmmmkay. Do you hate the likes of Moses, Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad because they had some real stupid followers? Do you also hate Einstein and Heisenberg because their studies eventually led to the H-Bomb? Do you hate the sport of basketball because there are many dumb fans? Do you hate the cause or the result? Which is it? Both? Everything?

:roll: Jesus? Moses? I'll just let the absurdity of this stand on its own


2) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he plays with an agenda.
Cool. Do you dislike Jordan for having played with tons of agendas? Or Bird for the same thing? Telling people before games and actual plays what they are gonna do next? The ultimate agenda. Do you hate these guys?

Did Jordan or Bird ever put some other agenda in front of winning a basketball game?

Did Jordan or Bird ever fued with the best player(besides themselves) on their team because that player got more shine than them?


3) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he thinks he's better than he is. I see. And what do YOU think of yourself? You think that you are worse than you are? Are you sure? Just because you say so in compay only to make others praise you? Don't you think that in the back of your minds you think that you are pretty cool and talented, too? What do you guys think of yourselves? Be honest.

everyone has an inflated sense of themselves, but not everyone would be willing to wreck a good workplace over the fact that they arent 'the man'. And anyone who would is likely identified as a selfish pr*ck


4) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he was given everything at a young age.
Great. Do you also hate yourself for not being born in Middle East Africa? Do you hate that you have food, clothes, kicks, TV, MP3 player and Internet - although most of you are too young to make too much money? Do you hate yourself for having a family that gave you quite everything? Don't you think you are lucky, too?

^this is just outright silly^


5) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he is an underachiever w/o Shaq.
Ahem. And what did you achieve in your lives? Do you hate yourself for not having achieved everything you could or should have? Do you hate every underachiever? What about your parents? Are you sure they achieved everything they could or should have? Do you hate the CEO of Oracle for not achieving Bill Gates' status? Because it's that difference that we are talking about here.

again, this is silly... has no bearing on basketball and it takes kobe bryant too seriously... basketball is a sport and kobe bryant isnt important enough to be compared in that fashion

basically its silly


6) You don't like Kobe Bryant because he is a prick and he doesn't deserve it.
We don't like people because they deserve it. We like them because... because we just happen to like them. We don't fall in love because our sweetheart deserves it. We don't have a hardon because that b!tch deserves it. We just have it. Even if she is a prick.

he does act like a pr*ck....Cant say he didnt earn his accomplishments tho..... I mean his real accomplishments...not the fantasy world stuff his fans fantasize about (like being better than Jordan)


7) You don't like Kobe Bryant because you just don't like him and that's it



That's an honest answer I can live with.

the honest answers are all thru-out the thread...its just that some people cant accept those answers...they'd rather believe what they want instead of what really is true...

[elementally morale]

Salto, what would constitute a valid reason for disliking Kobe in your mind? Only if he raped babies or some such? Do you or any other apologist go on a similar crusade when someone just doesn't like, say, Ben Wallace or Jason Kidd?

I'm not on a crusade, dude. That would be you.

I don't give a damn if you don't like the guy. What I can't stand is when people are trying to rationalize their hate. I hate him for this and that, his fans, his rings, his money, his wife, his non-street cred, his fake personality, his d!ck, his success, his lack of success, his undeserved success... and so on and on and on. That's rationalization.

In reality you simply don't like him because you just hate his guts to the bottom of your heart. That's what it comes down to.

And for the record, I hate Jermaine O'Neal with passion. Dislike Iverson pretty much. Can't stand Ben Wallace. Really really don't like Carmelo Anthony or Gary Payton.. Can I give you proper explanation? No. I cannot. I don't know them personally. I hate the image that was built around them, and I don't even know how much of that image is true. And I may like other players who have an even worse image in my mind - Bill Laimbeer for example. Any I can't tell you why.

We don't like everybody and that's cool. But why should I be a smartazz and rationalize a feeling? My feeling is legit. As legit as it gets. I hate jermaine O'Neal. And your hate is legit, too. You hate Kobe Bryant. Great. We all get it.

Why can't you move on?

[dogman652]

You want him to hate Dirk and Dwayne! Damn, ur even more screwed up with me.

[elementally morale]

:roll: @ you using that crap to help your arguement.

Never knew Kobe=Moses, Jesus, Einstein, etc.:confusedshrug:

You are only showing how little effort you made to understand what I was trying to talk about. The question is legit. Do you hate the cause or the result? Had Jesus never existed there wouldn't have been crusades - things jesus' followers anticipated. You hate crusades. Need I go on?

It was an example, son.

[Devientz]

The fact of the matter is that Kobe's teammates scored 53 of the Lakers' 61 points at halftime, and 75 of their 88 points at the end of 3. But Laker Logic doesn't consider that "being carried" offensively.
I just really dont understand..what is the point in arguing over this? So the rest of the Lakers were shooting well, Kobe went to them. Yea he had 9 points at halftime, but its not like he was jacking up shots the whole time. He was giving the ball to other people. Hes been doing it all season. Anyone have his shots attempted at half? I bet it wasnt many. But whatever, If thats what you call "being carried" then fine, it worked didnt it? Is there any reason for this to be argued over? Would it have been better in your opinion if Kobe had 30 points at the half?

[Rasheed1]

It was an example, son.

yeah, cause when I see people hatin on kobe, I wonder if they would hate on Ghandi like this :roll:

[Loki]

I just really dont understand..what is the point in arguing over this? So the rest of the Lakers were shooting well, Kobe went to them. Yea he had 9 points at halftime, but its not like he was jacking up shots the whole time. He was giving the ball to other people. Hes been doing it all season. Anyone have his shots attempted at half? I bet it wasnt many. But whatever, If thats what you call "being carried" then fine, it worked didnt it? Is there any reason for this to be argued over? Would it have been better in your opinion if Kobe had 30 points at the half?

The only reason it's being argued over is because he refuses to concede it despite its obviousness. It has no larger implications whatsoever. When Kobe scores 36 of his team's 43 points at halftime, we say that he "carried" them (regardless of the # of shots his teammates took). When his teammates score 52/61 at the half and 75/88 after 3 quarters, apparently we're not allowed to state that his teammates carried him offensively. Why the double standard?

I also never said he was jacking up shots, either.

[elementally morale]

Did Jordan or Bird ever put some other agenda in front of winning a basketball game?

Perhaps. We don't know. We know nothing about their mindset of old. And they sure didn't win every ballgame.


^this is just outright silly^

I'd simply call it ignorance on your part.


basketball is a sport and kobe bryant isnt important enough to be compared in that fashion

OK. Name the 10 biggest companies in the computer industry. Fast. Name their CEO's. Got it? I don't think so. Basketball for us is far more important than some dude running a well-established company. If it was the other way round you'd find yourself dive NASDAQ every day instead of nba.com



the honest answers are all thru-out the thread...its just that some people cant accept those answers...they'd rather believe what they want instead of what really is true...

What really is true noone knows. I think we, as people, don't like other people becasue we happen to dislike them. After we found out we don't like them, we all try to give a few reasons because we think it's neccessary. Because we want our hate to be legit.

Relax. Your feelings are legit. You don't have to explain them. More often than not what this will result in is bs like you've just typed.

[elementally morale]

yeah, cause when I see people hatin on kobe, I wonder if they would hate on Ghandi like this :roll:

Well, ask some Muslims in Pakistan if they hate on Jesus. And Gandhi is a fine example. Not many Indian officials liked him back in the day, you know. Sure, they knew nothing of him. They only knew the results - which they hated. And with them, the cause, too.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

You are only showing how little effort you made to understand what I was trying to talk about. The question is legit. Do you hate the cause or the result? Had Jesus never existed there wouldn't have been crusades - things jesus' followers anticipated. You hate crusades. Need I go on?

It was an example, son.

It was a horrible example kid.

Has Kobe Bryant "saved" the lives of billions of people throughout the history of the world? Are Kobe Bryant's teachings followed day in and out and are responsible for the molding of the world as we know it? Is Kobe Bryant worshipped as the Lord of countless people throughout the history of time?

Jesus, Muhammad, etc may be responsilbe for the death of millions upon billions, but they are also responsible for saving just as many. Who has Kobe saved?

Using Jesus, Moses or anyone of any relevence to World History to try and make your argument is sad and weak.

[Devientz]

The only reason it's being argued over is because he refuses to concede it despite its obviousness. It has no larger implications whatsoever. When Kobe scores 36 of his team's 43 points at halftime, we say that he "carried" them (regardless of the # of shots his teammates took). When his teammates score 52/61 at the half and 75/88 after 3 quarters, apparently we're not allowed to state that his teammates carried him offensively. Why the double standard?

I also never said he was jacking up shots, either.

I understand your point. I think though that there is a difference between one player scoring 90% of the points and the rest of the team (-1 player) scoring 90% of the points. I guess i can understand how you can see it that way, but theyre completely different imo. Using "being carried" talking about just Kobe, make it sounds like he was sitting around watching. Now on the other hand, if Kobe scored 90% of the points at half, I WOULD consider that carrying his a team. Same goes for any player in the league. Its all a matter of opinion. The way you stated it though, every superstar in the league gets "carried by their team" almost every night then. But thats my opinion. You can see it how you want.

[elementally morale]

It was a horrible example kid.

Has Kobe Bryant "saved" the lives of billions of people throughout the history of the world? Are Kobe Bryant's teachings followed day in and out and are responsible for the molding of the world as we know it? Is Kobe Bryant worshipped as the Lord of countless people throughout the history of time?

Jesus, Muhammad, etc may be responsilbe for the death of millions upon billions, but they are also responsible for saving just as many. Who has Kobe saved?

Using Jesus, Moses or anyone of any relevence to World History to try and make your argument is sad and weak.

It's all true, you are right. No, Kobe Bryant is not like those other dudes in that regard.

However, the example itself had nothing to do with the (supposed) greatness of the guys involved. It had more to do with one thing resulting in another thing, and with the question of what is in the focus of your hate.

If you understand it, fine. If you don't - it's fine just as well. You don't have to understand everything.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

It's all true, you are right. No, Kobe Bryant is not like those other dudes in that regard.

However, the example itself had nothing to do with the (supposed) greatness of the guys involved. It had more to do with one thing resulting in another thing, and with the question of what is in the focus of your hate.

If you understand it, fine. If you don't - it's fine just as well. You don't have to understand everything.

I understand what you are trying to say about Kobe, just pointing out that the argument you used on that particular stament was very weak.

[Rasheed1]

Perhaps. We don't know. We know nothing about their mindset of old. And they sure didn't win every ballgame.

We know whatever beef they had, they never put it in front of winning and thats what basketball fans care about.... Kobe on the other hand has on number of occasions tried to do so...




I'd simply call it ignorance on your part.

Im sure you would, but Im not the one comparing kobe to Moses and Jesus..... :confusedshrug:



OK. Name the 10 biggest companies in the computer industry. Fast. Name their CEO's. Got it? I don't think so. Basketball for us is far more important than some dude running a well-established company. If it was the other way round you'd find yourself dive NASDAQ every day instead of nba.com

If you take the issue of kobe bryant as serious as you do other life issues, then you have a serious problem that goes beyond kobe..





What really is true noone knows. I think we, as people, don't like other people becasue we happen to dislike them. After we found out we don't like them, we all try to give a few reasons because we think it's neccessary. Because we want our hate to be legit.

doesnt work like that for me....

See I actually can remember exactly why I dont like someone... I can remember the things that kobe has said or done to make me dislike him..

the dislike for him doesnt just form for no reason at all....there are real reasons for it...

if you cant accept that...then just say so.... not this bs Moses, Jesus, Joseph, and Mary argument you cooked up


More often than not what this will result in is bs like you've just typed.

says the guy who compares kobe to deities and martyrs.... :applause:

[elementally morale]

I understand what you are trying to say about Kobe, just pointing out that the argument you used on that particular stament was very weak.

And I think it was pretty good. If I hate the world I need to hate God who created it.

[Rasheed1]

And I think it was pretty good. If I hate the world I need to hate God who created it.

Stop with the analogies......they are terrible...

[elementally morale]

If you take the issue of kobe bryant as serious as you do other life issues, then you have a serious problem that goes beyond kobe..

I take discussions serious. Moreso than many 'life issues'. Being in a discussion is a 'life issue' for me. As for Kobe I don't really give a sh!t. I don1t even know him. He could quit playing basketball today and I wouldn't care at all. He is just a phenomenon. Was he not playing, I'd find another phenomenon.

And you are kidding yourself if you think life issues are 'more important' to many posters here than basketball issues or even Insidehoops issues. If that was the case they wouldn't be spending half their day here. What you are doing in 30% of the time you are awake is a lot more serious than you admit.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

And I think it was pretty good. If I hate the world I need to hate God who created it.

:confusedshrug: That makes even less sense, but whatever.

[Rasheed1]

I take discussions serious. Moreso than many 'life issues'. Being in a discussion is a 'life issue' for me. As for Kobe I don't really give a sh!t. I don1t even know him. He could quit playing basketball today and I wouldn't care at all. He is just a phenomenon. Was he not playing, I'd find another phenomenon.

And you are kidding yourself if you think life issues are 'more important' to many posters here than basketball issues or even Insidehoops issues. If that was the case they wouldn't be spending half their day here. What you are doing in 30% of the time you are awake is a lot more serious than you admit.

What a sad commentary.....

I dont buy it... but obviously you believe kobe bryant (and basketball) is more important than just entertainment...

talking on this message board is entertainment......

sports are entertainment.....

your real life deserves the introspection you ask for, not kobe bryant and NBA basketball..

[elementally morale]

Stop with the analogies......they are terrible...

I stop them because I don't feel like going on. But they are not at all terrible. You don't like them. I do. Sure, the world seems to be lot more friendly a place if you won't allow yourself to think.

[RainierBeachPoet]

it amazes me that after 76 posts no one mentioned the most obvious reason for kobe hate:

he raped a young woman and got off the hook because of his high priced lawyers

kobes' basketball abilities aside, we ought not warm up to rapists

[elementally morale]

but obviously you believe kobe bryant (and basketball) is more important than just entertainment...

To the contrary. This discussion is entertainment for me. I love being entertained and you are doing a great job at that.

[Inspector Rick]

Now that you mention it, I do have many problems with US policy, both economic and political. But that's not germane to this discussion.
Actually, it's spelt "Jermaine", but continune anyway.....

[elementally morale]

he raped a young woman

You were in the room?

[glidedrxlr22]

Ericforman and Rasheed hit the nail right on the head why so many of us dislike Kobe.

[dejordan]

it amazes me that after 76 posts no one mentioned the most obvious reason for kobe hate:

he raped a young woman and got off the hook because of his high priced lawyers

kobes' basketball abilities aside, we ought not warm up to rapists
whether he did or not, and i do believe the tenet "innocent until proven guilty" applies to lakers too, people have a skewed view of his game because of his off-court life, and that does lead to some pretty biased posts and further polarizes the lovers and haters on this board.

[itsmedamien]

Why are Lakers fans trying so damn hard to convert Loki into a Lakers/Kobe fan?
It's obvious he hates the Lakers and all of their good fortune the same way I despise the ****ing Yankees. As a Lakers fan, I'm flattered by the fact that even though he hates the Lakers, he continues to spend his time to search and note every flaw in our wins or Kobe's game. Just let it go guys!

[tontoz]

:roll: @ this thread. wow

[shadow]

so i met kobe the other day and he's a tall guy.

[RainierBeachPoet]

You were in the room?

yes-- i happened to be scrubbing the toilet at the time:rolleyes:

[Laker Logic]

Let's recap Laker Logic's specious argument from the game thread and allow others to bask in his unwillingness to concede even the most basic points.

I'll address this first, since you'd like to pretend that it's my unwillingness to accept reality that's the obstacle here. You're the one making the categorical statement that Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the bulk of the game. You're obviously free to make whatever kind of outlandish statement you want, but how you get from there to believing that that disagreeing with your premises is automatic grounds for disqualification from the discussion is beyond me. I must have missed your anointing as the person who sets the terms of debate - who dictates that X and Y and Z are all inarguably true, and let's just go from there. Sorry to disappoint, but when you're the one making an assertion, the burden is on you to prove it, not on everyone else to accept it as a starting point.


Here's where you'd like to begin -



At least be honest, picc. Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the first 36-40 minutes of the game, which allowed him to stay fresh and close the game out, particularly defensively.

Let's go to the tape, shall we?

On the Lakers first possession, Kobe brings the ball up, passes off and cuts to the top of the key, where he receives a pass, draws an immediate double team. He finds an open Cook on the other side of the floor, and Cook drains the 3.

On the Lakers second possession, Kobe gets the ball at the top of the arc. He dribbles left, guarded by Kapono, but again draws an immediate double, from Haslem, who is guarding Cook. Kobe spins away from the double and hits a wide open Cook, who again drains the 3.

If you know anything about Cook, the line on him is that he's a great shooter when left open, but he has trouble creating his own shot. He's also prone to slumping if he doesn't start off well. Two plays into the game, and the double teams Kobe is drawing have not only created two scoring opportunities for Cook, but Kobe has found him (and trusted him) on both, and Cook, to his credit, hits the shots.

After the game, Cook (who scored 25) said, "I had a lot of open shots and put them in. The first two shots made me feel real good, kind of put me on a roll. I was able to stay out of foul trouble, get a little rhythm in there. I've been getting in early foul trouble and that makes it hard to get into a rhythm."

On the Lakers 3rd possession, Kobe brings the ball up and dribbles left, drawing both Wade and Mourning (in addition to Kapono) to the top corner of the key. He dribbles, elevates, and hits a wide open Walton (Wade's man) on the baseline. Mourning recovers somewhat and challenges the shot - Walton goes glass and misses. After this near miss - Walton scores the next 7 points for the Lakers by repeatedly abusing Wade in the post. Cook scores on a put back jumper. Kobe scores on an 11 footer.

At the 6:11 mark, Kobe drives right, drawing defensive help (for Wade who's now guarding him) from Mourning, Williams and Kapono, who leaves Smush at the top of the arc and fades all the way in front of the free throw line to help cut Kobe off. Kobe hits a wide open Smush (Kapono's man) at the top of the key. Smush, another player known to slump after bad starts, has missed his first two unassisted shots, but drains this one. He would hit his next two shots and go on to score 17.

At the end of the first - Kobe has 7 points and four assists. Walton has seven points and zero assists. Cook has eight points and three assists. Turaif has two points. Radmanovic has one point. Oh, and EVERY Laker who has scored a field goal, outside of Walton, has scored their first basket off of a Kobe assist.

Let's go back to your original premise.


Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the first 36-40 minutes of the game which allowed him to stay fresh and close the game out, particularly defensively.

If it's true that the first 12 minutes are by definition part of the first 36-40 minutes of a game, then I think it's already pretty clear that you're stupid.

I could go on...but do I really need to?

[lovethetriangle]

I'll address this first, since you'd like to pretend that it's my unwillingness to accept reality that's the obstacle here. You're the one making the categorical statement that Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the bulk of the game. You're obviously free to make whatever kind of outlandish statement you want, but how you get from there to believing that that disagreeing with your premises is automatic grounds for disqualification from the discussion is beyond me. I must have missed your anointing as the person who sets the terms of debate - who dictates that X and Y and Z are all inarguably true, and let's just go from there. Sorry to disappoint, but when you're the one making an assertion, the burden is on you to prove it, not on everyone else to accept it as a starting point.


Here's where you'd like to begin -



Let's go to the tape, shall we?

On the Lakers first possession, Kobe brings the ball up, passes off and cuts to the top of the key, where he receives a pass, draws an immediate double team. He finds an open Cook on the other side of the floor, and Cook drains the 3.

On the Lakers second possession, Kobe gets the ball at the top of the arc. He dribbles left, guarded by Kapono, but again draws an immediate double, from Haslem, who is guarding Cook. Kobe spins away from the double and hits a wide open Cook, who again drains the 3.

If you know anything about Cook, the line on him is that he's a great shooter when left open, but he has trouble creating his own shot. He's also prone to slumping if he doesn't start off well. Two plays into the game, and the double teams Kobe is drawing have not only created two scoring opportunities for Cook, but Kobe has found him (and trusted him) on both, and Cook, to his credit, hits the shots.

After the game, Cook (who scored 25) said, "I had a lot of open shots and put them in. The first two shots made me feel real good, kind of put me on a roll. I was able to stay out of foul trouble, get a little rhythm in there. I've been getting in early foul trouble and that makes it hard to get into a rhythm."

On the Lakers 3rd possession, Kobe brings the ball up and dribbles left, drawing both Wade and Mourning (in addition to Kapono) to the top corner of the key. He dribbles, elevates, and hits a wide open Walton (Wade's man) on the baseline. Mourning recovers somewhat and challenges the shot - Walton goes glass and misses. After this near miss - Walton scores the next 7 points for the Lakers by repeatedly abusing Wade in the post. Cook scores on a put back jumper. Kobe scores on an 11 footer.

At the 6:11 mark, Kobe drives right, drawing Mourning and Williams (in addition to Wade who's now guarding him) and hits a wide open Smush (Kapono's man) at the top of the key. Smush, another player known to slump after bad starts, has missed his first two unassisted shots, but drains this one. He would hit his next two shots and go on to score 17.

At the end of the first - Kobe has 7 points and four assists. Walton has seven points and zero assists. Cook has eight points and three assists. Turaif has two points. Radmanovic has one point. Oh, and EVERY Laker who has scored a field goal, outside of Walton, has scored their first basket off of a Kobe assist.

Let's go back to your original premise.



If it's true that the first 12 minutes are by definition part of the first 36-40 minutes of a game, then I think it's already pretty clear that you're stupid.

I could go on...but do I really need to?


Damn Laker Logic i'm impressed. You certainly did your homework. I will be back with a bang on this thread as I am at work. Good luck with your response Loki.

[gts]

The different salary structure (i.e., no cap) and the fact that Steinbrenner has bottomless pockets to lure FA's due to his various marketing deals? :confusedshrug:

basketball loki basketball, i'm talking about the knicks not the yankees:confusedshrug:

[Laker Logic]

Damn Laker Logic i'm impressed. You certainly did your homework. I will be back with a bang on this thread as I am at work. Good luck with your response Loki.

I don't have the time, energy or inclination to take apart 10% of the nonsense written about the Lakers/Kobe by "haters" for lack of a better term, but every once in a while I can't resist. Some people are fooled into thinking that Loki knows what he's talking about because he writes in complete sentences, and drowns you with stats, but over the past few months he posts more and more nonsense, especially as relates to the Lakers. He's still put on a pedestal by Kobe haters like he's some kind of debate wizard.

Loki gets a kick out of goading Laker fans. I get a kick, from time to time, from highlighting how silly and willfully stupid so many the Laker haters are.

[RidonKs]

Haha, that's some major LL ownage right there...

Loki?

[MaxFly]

I'll address this first, since you'd like to pretend that it's my unwillingness to accept reality that's the obstacle here. You're the one making the categorical statement that Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the bulk of the game. You're obviously free to make whatever kind of outlandish statement you want, but how you get from there to believing that that disagreeing with your premises is automatic grounds for disqualification from the discussion is beyond me. I must have missed your anointing as the person who sets the terms of debate - who dictates that X and Y and Z are all inarguably true, and let's just go from there. Sorry to disappoint, but when you're the one making an assertion, the burden is on you to prove it, not on everyone else to accept it as a starting point.


Here's where you'd like to begin -



Let's go to the tape, shall we?

On the Lakers first possession, Kobe brings the ball up, passes off and cuts to the top of the key, where he receives a pass, draws an immediate double team. He finds an open Cook on the other side of the floor, and Cook drains the 3.

On the Lakers second possession, Kobe gets the ball at the top of the arc. He dribbles left, guarded by Kapono, but again draws an immediate double, from Haslem, who is guarding Cook. Kobe spins away from the double and hits a wide open Cook, who again drains the 3.

If you know anything about Cook, the line on him is that he's a great shooter when left open, but he has trouble creating his own shot. He's also prone to slumping if he doesn't start off well. Two plays into the game, and the double teams Kobe is drawing have not only created two scoring opportunities for Cook, but Kobe has found him (and trusted him) on both, and Cook, to his credit, hits the shots.

After the game, Cook (who scored 25) said, "I had a lot of open shots and put them in. The first two shots made me feel real good, kind of put me on a roll. I was able to stay out of foul trouble, get a little rhythm in there. I've been getting in early foul trouble and that makes it hard to get into a rhythm."

On the Lakers 3rd possession, Kobe brings the ball up and dribbles left, drawing both Wade and Mourning (in addition to Kapono) to the top corner of the key. He dribbles, elevates, and hits a wide open Walton (Wade's man) on the baseline. Mourning recovers somewhat and challenges the shot - Walton goes glass and misses. After this near miss - Walton scores the next 7 points for the Lakers by repeatedly abusing Wade in the post. Cook scores on a put back jumper. Kobe scores on an 11 footer.

At the 6:11 mark, Kobe drives right, drawing Mourning and Williams (in addition to Wade who's now guarding him) and hits a wide open Smush (Kapono's man) at the top of the key. Smush, another player known to slump after bad starts, has missed his first two unassisted shots, but drains this one. He would hit his next two shots and go on to score 17.

At the end of the first - Kobe has 7 points and four assists. Walton has seven points and zero assists. Cook has eight points and three assists. Turaif has two points. Radmanovic has one point. Oh, and EVERY Laker who has scored a field goal, outside of Walton, has scored their first basket off of a Kobe assist.

Let's go back to your original premise.



If it's true that the first 12 minutes are by definition part of the first 36-40 minutes of a game, then I think it's already pretty clear that you're stupid.

I could go on...but do I really need to?

Damn... :oldlol:

[gts]

loki, i admire your passion to protect MJ's legacy just as i admired magics passion for the game or kobes passion to be the best... but your bitterness does not do your obvious intelligence and flair for writing justice, it only detracts...
if you could see past your feelings and bring your love of the game to allow other players to be great you'll realize that michael is truly head and shoulders above some of the all time greats, but by knocking down anyone that threatens his legacy you only serve to lower the thing you strive so hard to protect..

[gb8]

I'll address this first, since you'd like to pretend that it's my unwillingness to accept reality that's the obstacle here. You're the one making the categorical statement that Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the bulk of the game. You're obviously free to make whatever kind of outlandish statement you want, but how you get from there to believing that that disagreeing with your premises is automatic grounds for disqualification from the discussion is beyond me. I must have missed your anointing as the person who sets the terms of debate - who dictates that X and Y and Z are all inarguably true, and let's just go from there. Sorry to disappoint, but when you're the one making an assertion, the burden is on you to prove it, not on everyone else to accept it as a starting point.


Here's where you'd like to begin -



Let's go to the tape, shall we?

On the Lakers first possession, Kobe brings the ball up, passes off and cuts to the top of the key, where he receives a pass, draws an immediate double team. He finds an open Cook on the other side of the floor, and Cook drains the 3.

On the Lakers second possession, Kobe gets the ball at the top of the arc. He dribbles left, guarded by Kapono, but again draws an immediate double, from Haslem, who is guarding Cook. Kobe spins away from the double and hits a wide open Cook, who again drains the 3.

If you know anything about Cook, the line on him is that he's a great shooter when left open, but he has trouble creating his own shot. He's also prone to slumping if he doesn't start off well. Two plays into the game, and the double teams Kobe is drawing have not only created two scoring opportunities for Cook, but Kobe has found him (and trusted him) on both, and Cook, to his credit, hits the shots.

After the game, Cook (who scored 25) said, "I had a lot of open shots and put them in. The first two shots made me feel real good, kind of put me on a roll. I was able to stay out of foul trouble, get a little rhythm in there. I've been getting in early foul trouble and that makes it hard to get into a rhythm."

On the Lakers 3rd possession, Kobe brings the ball up and dribbles left, drawing both Wade and Mourning (in addition to Kapono) to the top corner of the key. He dribbles, elevates, and hits a wide open Walton (Wade's man) on the baseline. Mourning recovers somewhat and challenges the shot - Walton goes glass and misses. After this near miss - Walton scores the next 7 points for the Lakers by repeatedly abusing Wade in the post. Cook scores on a put back jumper. Kobe scores on an 11 footer.

At the 6:11 mark, Kobe drives right, drawing defensive help (for Wade who's now guarding him) from Mourning, Williams and Kapono, who leaves Smush at the top of the arc and fades all the way in front of the free throw line to help cut Kobe off. Kobe hits a wide open Smush (Kapono's man) at the top of the key. Smush, another player known to slump after bad starts, has missed his first two unassisted shots, but drains this one. He would hit his next two shots and go on to score 17.

At the end of the first - Kobe has 7 points and four assists. Walton has seven points and zero assists. Cook has eight points and three assists. Turaif has two points. Radmanovic has one point. Oh, and EVERY Laker who has scored a field goal, outside of Walton, has scored their first basket off of a Kobe assist.

Let's go back to your original premise.



If it's true that the first 12 minutes are by definition part of the first 36-40 minutes of a game, then I think it's already pretty clear that you're stupid.

I could go on...but do I really need to?

Bravo great post.:applause:

[Heilige]

I'll address this first, since you'd like to pretend that it's my unwillingness to accept reality that's the obstacle here. You're the one making the categorical statement that Kobe was absolutely carried by his teammates for the bulk of the game. You're obviously free to make whatever kind of outlandish statement you want, but how you get from there to believing that that disagreeing with your premises is automatic grounds for disqualification from the discussion is beyond me. I must have missed your anointing as the person who sets the terms of debate - who dictates that X and Y and Z are all inarguably true, and let's just go from there. Sorry to disappoint, but when you're the one making an assertion, the burden is on you to prove it, not on everyone else to accept it as a starting point.


Here's where you'd like to begin -



Let's go to the tape, shall we?

On the Lakers first possession, Kobe brings the ball up, passes off and cuts to the top of the key, where he receives a pass, draws an immediate double team. He finds an open Cook on the other side of the floor, and Cook drains the 3.

On the Lakers second possession, Kobe gets the ball at the top of the arc. He dribbles left, guarded by Kapono, but again draws an immediate double, from Haslem, who is guarding Cook. Kobe spins away from the double and hits a wide open Cook, who again drains the 3.

If you know anything about Cook, the line on him is that he's a great shooter when left open, but he has trouble creating his own shot. He's also prone to slumping if he doesn't start off well. Two plays into the game, and the double teams Kobe is drawing have not only created two scoring opportunities for Cook, but Kobe has found him (and trusted him) on both, and Cook, to his credit, hits the shots.

After the game, Cook (who scored 25) said, "I had a lot of open shots and put them in. The first two shots made me feel real good, kind of put me on a roll. I was able to stay out of foul trouble, get a little rhythm in there. I've been getting in early foul trouble and that makes it hard to get into a rhythm."

On the Lakers 3rd possession, Kobe brings the ball up and dribbles left, drawing both Wade and Mourning (in addition to Kapono) to the top corner of the key. He dribbles, elevates, and hits a wide open Walton (Wade's man) on the baseline. Mourning recovers somewhat and challenges the shot - Walton goes glass and misses. After this near miss - Walton scores the next 7 points for the Lakers by repeatedly abusing Wade in the post. Cook scores on a put back jumper. Kobe scores on an 11 footer.

At the 6:11 mark, Kobe drives right, drawing defensive help (for Wade who's now guarding him) from Mourning, Williams and Kapono, who leaves Smush at the top of the arc and fades all the way in front of the free throw line to help cut Kobe off. Kobe hits a wide open Smush (Kapono's man) at the top of the key. Smush, another player known to slump after bad starts, has missed his first two unassisted shots, but drains this one. He would hit his next two shots and go on to score 17.

At the end of the first - Kobe has 7 points and four assists. Walton has seven points and zero assists. Cook has eight points and three assists. Turaif has two points. Radmanovic has one point. Oh, and EVERY Laker who has scored a field goal, outside of Walton, has scored their first basket off of a Kobe assist.

Let's go back to your original premise.



If it's true that the first 12 minutes are by definition part of the first 36-40 minutes of a game, then I think it's already pretty clear that you're stupid.

I could go on...but do I really need to?



Damn. ****ing beautiful post. :bowdown: Major ownage.

[picc84]

lol @ anyone thinking this is over

[elementally morale]

I was just wondering if Laker Logic is the same poster as WigNosy.

As for Loki, LL is right. Him (Loki) writing in full sentences fools some people into believing his posts are quality - when in fact they are only well designed elements of a marketing campaign of a stinking product.

In the past three years I was sometimes in the mood to get into long disciussions with the likes of Knoe and Loki and I think I myself had quite a lot of posts that were also called 'major ownage of them' coming from me back in the day. It changed nothing. (Not that I thought it would but I was in the mood anyway.)

Nowadays I may answer them in 1 or 2 paragrpahs and that's about it. Their whole array of 'arguments' doesn't deserve more. The internet is kind to us - it is pretty cost-effective to put down as many characters as you wish. The server's capacity is big enough. But if I were to print it on paper... forget about it. I don't waste paper like that.

[EricForman]

Loki gets carried away with the obvious dislike for the Lakers at time (such as when he gets all upset and claims everything was lucky when Laker role player hit shots). But he does his share of owning against the many many clown Laker fans on this board too.

[Heilige]

Haha, that's some major LL ownage right there...

Loki?


Loki got owned. Major ownage. :roll: :roll:

[Laker Logic]

I was just wondering if Laker Logic is the same poster as WigNosy.

No. I've never posted in the new or old ISH under any other screenname.

[RidonKs]

Loki got owned. Major ownage. :roll: :roll:

I thought you like, worshipped the ground he walked on.











*Kidding man.

[Jasper]

All this talk about Lakers & Kobe again.
The final equation is Phil trying to groom Kobe to play like MJ.
(This started when the triangle hit LA as in Phil ,Shaq & Kobe besides the offense. )
Phil's still facilatating this and finally Kobe is buying into it.
When Kobe & Lakers come up , to me its a dead horse , besides the 3 rings he has with Shaq , he'll never get another ring , unless Odom brings his game even higher than what it is now , and that means out playing guys like Dirk , Duncan & Boozer , to get to a championship game.
Before Kobe retires he best hope for a stronger supporting cast and post wing man. (I just don't see another ring)
PERIOD.

[lovethetriangle]

After 107 posts, is it fair that Loki has been officially owned by the likes of myself, Morale, gts, hotsizzle, and most especially Mr. Laker Logic??

Summary:

1. Loki has extensive basketball knowledge.

2. Loki has exceptional writing and marketing skills.

3. Loki turns us on with big words from his virtual thesaurus.

4. Loki has been able to own several clown/idiot/groupie Laker (more kobe really) fans on this forum and props to him for that because they deserve major ownage.

5. Loki shouldn't generalize Lakerfans. There are diehards like us that accept reality. At the moment reality is that we are a good team that hasn't more than an extremely outside chance at contending and we are definitely inferior to the west's elite. We accept that kobe is a fantastic basketball player that is nowhere near MJ's greatness. Basketball skills alone, maybe he comes close. Maybe. That's just me. But overall, they are far apart. However, I personally believe that he can go down in the top 10 all time. Maybe even 5.

6. When you speak of Laker fans that annoy you, specify who. Some of us simply just love our team to death and love the sport they play and want them to win just as all of you want your teams to win. Ergo, if you hate the Lakers/Kobe, go ahead hate. But hate for the sake of hating. Don't dedicate your life to justifying your hate. Because all that shows is how much importance you give them.

6. If you can't resist firing back at dumb laker fans who proclaim kobe as God, go ahead. But i'd prefer you don't use the term, 'you laker fans' because it hurts fans like us. If you want to really argue about the lakers, argue with us.

That's all.

I expect a white flag.

[XxNeXuSxX]

No? Loki will have a response to LakerLogic. Wait for it...

[johndough]

Whats so hard to comprehend?Certain posters have explained the reasons Kobe is hated...agree or dissagree,whats the debate?

[johndough]

edit

[dgbigballer9329]

1) You dont like Kobe Bryant because he has some stupid fans.
Mmmmkay. Do you hate the likes of Moses, Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad because they had some real stupid followers? Do you also hate Einstein and Heisenberg because their studies eventually led to the H-Bomb? Do you hate the sport of basketball because there are many dumb fans? Do you hate the cause or the result? Which is it? Both? Everything?







Im sure you would, but Im not the one comparing kobe to Moses and Jesus.....


Has Kobe Bryant "saved" the lives of billions of people throughout the history of the world? Are Kobe Bryant's teachings followed day in and out and are responsible for the molding of the world as we know it? Is Kobe Bryant worshipped as the Lord of countless people throughout the history of time?

Jesus, Muhammad, etc may be responsilbe for the death of millions upon billions, but they are also responsible for saving just as many. Who has Kobe saved?


says the guy who compares kobe to deities and martyrs....

I just can't stand people who don't get simple concepts.

The point he is making is simple, "Do you hate [insert anybody else] because he has stupid followers?".

How people can think that means dude is comparing Kobe to Jesus is beyond me. It literally takes just a basic understanding of the word "analogy" to realize he is not comparing two people. He's comparing hate to hate.

Ever hear the expression "So if everybody else jumped off a cliff, would you?" Usually someone says that if you're trying to be like someone else, maybe purposely wearing the same type of clothes as somebody. Is that comparing wearing the same clothes as someone else to jumping off a cliff???

It's so easy, even a caveman could get it.

[lovethetriangle]

After 107 posts, is it fair that Loki has been officially owned by the likes of myself, Morale, gts, hotsizzle, and most especially Mr. Laker Logic??

Summary:

1. Loki has extensive basketball knowledge.

2. Loki has exceptional writing and marketing skills.

3. Loki turns us on with big words from his virtual thesaurus.

4. Loki has been able to own several clown/idiot/groupie Laker (more kobe really) fans on this forum and props to him for that because they deserve major ownage.

5. Loki shouldn't generalize Lakerfans. There are diehards like us that accept reality. At the moment reality is that we are a good team that hasn't more than an extremely outside chance at contending and we are definitely inferior to the west's elite. We accept that kobe is a fantastic basketball player that is nowhere near MJ's greatness. Basketball skills alone, maybe he comes close. Maybe. That's just me. But overall, they are far apart. However, I personally believe that he can go down in the top 10 all time. Maybe even 5.

6. When you speak of Laker fans that annoy you, specify who. Some of us simply just love our team to death and love the sport they play and want them to win just as all of you want your teams to win. Ergo, if you hate the Lakers/Kobe, go ahead hate. But hate for the sake of hating. Don't dedicate your life to justifying your hate. Because all that shows is how much importance you give them.

6. If you can't resist firing back at dumb laker fans who proclaim kobe as God, go ahead. But i'd prefer you don't use the term, 'you laker fans' because it hurts fans like us. If you want to really argue about the lakers, argue with us.

That's all.

I expect a white flag.


No reply to this yet??? Have we won?

[elementally morale]

No reply to this yet??? Have we won?

Sure. We've just beaten the Spurs on the road. Was a great game. Did you see it? :banana:

[shadow]

I was just wondering if Laker Logic is the same poster as WigNosy.



Actually I think he posts as Sound & Fury now. He doesn't post a lot but his posts are incredibly thought out every single time. Quality Posts to steal a note from GeeWiz's's avatar.

[lovethetriangle]

Sure. We've just beaten the Spurs on the road. Was a great game. Did you see it? :banana:



Hell yeah buddy. Fabulous win for our confidence. A win tomorrow looks bleak but nothings impossible. If we can pull off the mavs, WOW.

[elementally morale]

Actually I think he posts as Sound & Fury now. He doesn't post a lot but his posts are incredibly thought out every single time. Quality Posts to steal a note from GeeWiz's's avatar.

WigNosy (Sound & Fury) is the best of the best. His way of thinking reminds me of mine when I post in Hungarian - the only problem being I can't put it together properly in English.

I wish I didn't have a language barrier... It's so frustrating posting all this in a language I don't speak well enough. Approximately 50% of what I'd like to add I cannot, because the tiny differences that make an argument reasonably good get lost in the translation process. :cry:

[elementally morale]

Hell yeah buddy. Fabulous win for our confidence. A win tomorrow looks bleak but nothings impossible. If we can pull off the mavs, WOW.

Winning tomorrow would surprise me. I was half-expecting beating the Spurs today. And even though we match up well with Dallas, beating them one after the other on the road without some key players, and doing all this while the rear end of the back-to-back is against a team that's on a roll... too much.

If we can do it, we will be #2 on Marc Steins power rankings though. :oldlol:

[lovethetriangle]

Winning tomorrow would surprise me. I was half-expecting beating the Spurs today. And even though we match up well with Dallas, beating them one after the other on the road without some key players, and doing all this while the rear end of the back-to-back is against a team that's on a roll... too much.

If we can do it, we will be #2 on Marc Steins power rankings though. :oldlol:


Absolutely right. I give us a 10% chance tomorrow. Better than none.

Where in the name of Jesus/Allah/Moses/Buddha is Loki???

[elementally morale]

Where in the name of Jesus/Allah/Moses/Buddha is Loki???

Loki retired. Or maybe he has just a mild ankle sprain and will come back with a vengeance. You never know with the likes of Loki.

What we do know however, is he's not on the court. He might train behind closed doors with Carmelo. Sources say he is in the best form of his life, though, so we shouldn't be giving up all hope.

Tomorrow never dies.

[lovethetriangle]

Loki retired. Or maybe he has just a mild ankle sprain and will come back with a vengeance. You never know with the likes of Loki.

What we do know however, is he's not on the court. He might train behind closed doors with Carmelo. Sources say he is in the best form of his life, though, so we shouldn't be giving up all hope.

Tomorrow never dies.


hahahahha classic. I look forward to a reply.

[elementally morale]

hahahahha classic. I look forward to a reply.

Don't be too hard on him, he's having a tough time. He was not ready for this. Loki teared up his sh!t in the D-League going up against Kobe groupies night in and night out.

And - surprise, surprise - this has caught up to him finally. He believed that he is better than he actually is. Trained by the mastermind Knoe Itawl and having AAP as his (dumb but hard working) sidekick fooled him into believing he is playing in a different league, and that he can deliver just as well if he is not any more a participant of the Paraolympics.

To his utmost surprise, he found some people who can answer him - and all of a sudden his mojo is gone with the wind. And all this after such a nice start to a promising career.

Life is being unfair to him.

[hotsizzle]

speaking of knoe and AAP..anyone realize how those cats dont dare to show up after ANY laker victory and if they do show up, its only to bash kobe for getting the benefit of the calls...

haha and its only gonna get worst for them

[LakersDynasty]

speaking of knoe and AAP..anyone realize how those cats dont dare to show up after ANY laker victory and if they do show up, its only to bash kobe for getting the benefit of the calls...

haha and its only gonna get worst for them
That's not really news. And if you confront them about it they come at you with personal insults, "Only groupie scum would say something like that, Bryant Fanatics are the lowest form of life."

[elementally morale]

That's not really news. And if you confront them about it they come at you with personal insults, "Only groupie scum would say something like that, Bryant Fanatics are the lowest form of life."

What they usually come up with at such times is something like: "I have other things in my life to worry about, it's just stupid groupie scum spending their day here bragging about the r a p is t. Get a life." Or something like that.

[statman32]

What they usually come up with at such times is something like: "I have other things in my life to worry about, it's just stupid groupie scum spending their day here bragging about the r a p is t. Get a life." Or something like that.

geez guys...all your doing is getting these haters the attention they want...they want to get you worked up...they want for you to talk about them...this thread has gone on way too long lol

p.s I wouldnt catgorize loki in the same group as aap and knoe itawl because he mostly goes after kobe groupies and he presents some facts

[elementally morale]

geez guys...all your doing is getting these haters the attention they want...they want to get you worked up...they want for you to talk about them...this thread has gone on way too long lol

p.s I wouldnt catgorize loki in the same group as aap and knoe itawl because he mostly goes after kobe groupies and he presents some facts

I don't mind them getting what they want as long as I get what I want, too. Which is entertainment through them. Knoe and Loki are both entertaining to me, and I actually like them.

AAP is a different kind of animal. He entertains me not, thus I usually don't even bother answering him.

[statman32]

I don't mind them getting what they want as long as I get what I want, too. Which is entertainment through them. Knoe and Loki are both entertaining to me, and I actually like them.

AAP is a different kind of animal. He entertains me not, thus I usually don't even bother answering him.

alright i understand that...if you dont mind them too much its cool

btw nash=best just showed you up...its a sad day when that happens

[elementally morale]

btw nash=best just showed you up...its a sad day when that happens

It happens. All people post dumb sh!t sometimes and I'm no exception. If I get cought I'll admit it and move on.

[hotsizzle]

loki is the good hater
knoe is so-and-so..if he doesnt start with his "kobe groupie scum" generalizations and actually discusses ball, hes alright.
AAP is just a pshycopath

[NASH = BEST]

btw nash=best just showed you up...its a sad day when that happens

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~ssundare/angry-homer.gif

Okay

[LakersDynasty]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~ssundare/angry-homer.gif

Okay
Worst Post Ever
http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/l/cbg.jpg

[Rocker09]

damn, nice post laker logic @_@................

[NASH = BEST]

Worst Post Ever
http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/l/cbg.jpg

:mad: NO, THIS IS..:mad:

http://www.ringworld.org/~tlee/insanity.gif

[lovethetriangle]

I still think Loki is a dimwit because he does generalize without saying it.

And to Statman: Some of the people that hate lakergroupies are idiots and I choose not to mind them. But Loki is a very smart poster and I wish he would pay more attention to objective arguments and argue with us, the few knowledgable Laker fans, instead of thriving over groupies to make himself look like a God. That's it.

I am still waiting for a reply from Loki.

[statman32]

I still think Loki is a dimwit because he does generalize without saying it.

And to Statman: Some of the people that hate lakergroupies are idiots and I choose not to mind them. But Loki is a very smart poster and I wish he would pay more attention to objective arguments and argue with us, the few knowledgable Laker fans, instead of thriving over groupies to make himself look like a God. That's it.

I am still waiting for a reply from Loki.


Yah i can understand that...but i dont know how much calling him out like that is gonna make him pay more attention

and by the way mods....PLEASE DELETE NASH=BESTs POST

[DreamRockets]

speaking of knoe and AAP..anyone realize how those cats dont dare to show up after ANY laker victory and if they do show up, its only to bash kobe for getting the benefit of the calls...

haha and its only gonna get worst for them

this was a great lakers victory and i wish kobe would play like this all the time.

[LakersDynasty]

this was a great lakers victory and i wish kobe would play like this all the time.
Not saying you gotta like Kobe or anything, but if you followed the Lakers for the whole season, he's been playing this style for the majority of the games. He had a few games where he took on the "Me against the world" attitude like the loss against the Bobcats where he scored 58. His FG % hasn't been great all the time, but for the most part he's been sharing the ball a lot, especially through the first 3 quarters. It's been most noticable the past 6-8 games.

[Rasheed1]

I just can't stand people who don't get simple concepts.

it was a dumb analogy not a simple concept... there is a difference


The point he is making is simple, "Do you hate [insert anybody else] because he has stupid followers?".




How people can think that means dude is comparing Kobe to Jesus is beyond me.

maybe because HE BROUGHT JESUS INTO A SPORTS CONVERSATION AND COMPARED HIM TO KOBE!

Dislike for a basketball player is not remotely comparable to hate for a religious figure

how f*ckin stupid do you have to be to not see where the two dont coincide with each other?




It literally takes just a basic understanding of the word "analogy" to realize he is not comparing two people. He's comparing hate to hate.

And it only takes a brain the size of a napkin to understand that dislike for a basketball player is not comparable to hate of a religion figure for which people are willing to kill and die and go to war

Kobe Bryant is a f*ckin basketball player...We are discussing why we like/dislike a baskeball player..not a religious figure... you kids need to get your heads outta your asses and get your minds right...

maybe his analogy would have made sense if he had kept it logical...like say, comparing Kobe to another sports figure...

But jesus? C'mon... thats just dumb... there is a whole culture built around jesus christ and there have already been wars fought over christ and people could have number of reasons to hate christ and christians, its not as simple as you simpletons wanna make it out to be..

[Brunch@Five]

alright i understand that...if you dont mind them too much its cool

btw nash=best just showed you up...its a sad day when that happens

Dilbert's words of wisdom:

"Never argue with an idiot ... they drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"

[gb8]

Looking forward to the response to logics post.

[The Mamba]

In terms of people who I feel actually know the game. As in studying, and playing it, etc.

I'd have to roll with:

dejordan
Loki
KBlaze
sizzle

and

GOBB

Everybody else I haven't really gotten the feeling that they ACTUALLY know what they're talking about. So, respect goes out to those posters.

[DreamRockets]

Not saying you gotta like Kobe or anything, but if you followed the Lakers for the whole season, he's been playing this style for the majority of the games. He had a few games where he took on the "Me against the world" attitude like the loss against the Bobcats where he scored 58. His FG % hasn't been great all the time, but for the most part he's been sharing the ball a lot, especially through the first 3 quarters. It's been most noticable the past 6-8 games.

i meant the shot selection, except for a couple force attempts at the end of the 3rd he didn't take a shot that wasnt good.

[MaxFly]

In terms of people who I feel actually know the game. As in studying, and playing it, etc.

I'd have to roll with:

dejordan
Loki
KBlaze
sizzle

and

GOBB

Everybody else I haven't really gotten the feeling that they ACTUALLY know what they're talking about. So, respect goes out to those posters.

:(

[The Mamba]

:(
You know what my man, I actually forgot you. You're Pierce avatar throwing me off. Give me a break, I haven't been here in awhile. Put Maxi up on that list in the upper echelon. He knows his stuff. Maybe one day he will do what is right, and put a Bryant avatar up. We know he wants to.

:lol:

[MaxFly]

You know what my man, I actually forgot you. You're Pierce avatar throwing me off. Give me a break, I haven't been here in awhile. Put Maxi up on that list in the upper echelon. He knows his stuff. Maybe one day he will do what is right, and put a Bryant avatar up. We know he wants to.

:lol:

I used to hate the dude, passionately. I used to be a Magic fan and an even bigger Penny fan. I'm talking about basketball card collecting... mint condition Nick Anderson, Magic Fan. The Celtics of course weren't really doing anything; Rick Fox, Dino Raja, Dana Barrows... Shaq got traded, killed the Magic, and it was instant hate for the Lakers, and everyone who played on those teams... and then Bryant got all the unncessary hype coming out of high school, and Penny was forgotten, so that compounded matters. Along the way, I grew up and realized that I had dumb, juvenile reasons for hating Shaq, Bryant and the rest of the Lakers, so I've been pretty gracious with the franchise thoughout their championship years and up to now.

I just think it's part of being a real basketball fan. The Bulls and Magic were my favorite teams growing up, but I know plenty of people who absolutely hated the Bulls and Jordan. Each and every one of them regrets it now because they never allowed themselves to enjoy what Jordan and the Bulls were doing. I never wanted that to be me That's why you'll never really hear much hate out of me... unless it's about Rick Fox... I really hate that traitor...

But yeah, I try to keep favorable opinions of most players when possible.

[picc84]

Ahh, Rick Fox. What a great glue guy on a championship team. He was so classy, and unselfish in his sacrifices for the squad. Just a great guy all around. Any team would have been lucky to have him around. :)

[elementally morale]

HE BROUGHT JESUS INTO A SPORTS CONVERSATION AND COMPARED HIM TO KOBE!

You are really dumb if you think that.

[reppy]

Well, ask some Muslims in Pakistan if they hate on Jesus.

Just thought I'd point out that Muslims believe Jesus to be the second most important prophet after Muhammad. However, they differ from Christians in that they do not believe he is the savior or the son of God. If Muslims were going to hate anyone, it'd probably be Paul.

While his argument is a bit extreme, I think it's a fair enough point. However, it would have been better put if he explained it in such a way: do you hate a movie, a song or an activity because it's popular? Did you stop listening to a certain band just because they had some retarded fans? Do you let the behavior of others that have no influence on the product dictate how you feel about said product?

Ignore all the other reasons that you would hate Kobe and answer this question alone. Yes, there are many quite reasonable reasons to hate Kobe, but how innocent is your favorite player? The same person that says they don't like Kobe because he cheated on his wife will tell you moments later how they think Bill Clinton is the greatest president in the world. And quite frankly, being the ambassador of the NBA and the president of America are in two entirely different realms.

[elementally morale]

While his argument is a bit extreme, I think it's a fair enough point.

I love extreme examples because they emphasize the point in dramatic fashion. However, you are right and your examples are better - in the sense that the subject you use is closer to the original subject.

In another sense however, my example was better, because I didn't as much want to compare the subject of Kobe to ___________, but rather cause x and result x to cause y and result y.

Kobe is not important is this duscussion. His name could totally be left out.

[elementally morale]

Just thought I'd point out that Muslims believe Jesus to be the second most important prophet after Muhammad.

In theory that is, right? Because Muslims of the Middle East do not like the Western civilization too much, and as they find correlation between Jesus and the Western civilazation, hundreds of millions of them hate Jesus as well.

As far as I can tell at least.

[reppy]

In theory that is, right? Because Muslims of the Middle East do not like the Western civilization too much, and as they find correlation between Jesus and the Western civilazation, hundreds of millions of them hate Jesus as well.

As far as I can tell at least.

Any proper Muslim, when referring to any of the prophets of the God of Abraham, will follow it by saying "peace be upon him." Or when referring to the wives of prophets, "may Allah be pleased with her."

3:45 Lo! The angels said: "O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tiding, through a word from Him, [of a son] who shall become known as the Christ [32] jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and in the life to come, and [shall be] of those who are drawn near unto God.

3:54 And the unbelievers schemed [against Jesus]; [44] but God brought their scheming to nought: for God is above all schemers.

3:84 Say: "We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and their descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed by their Sustainer unto Moses and Jesus and all the [other] prophets: we make no distinction between any of them. [68] And unto Him do we surrender ourselves."

(Just a few verses from the Qur'an that represent Jesus in a positive or important light.)

Muslims might not view the prophets the same way as Christians or Jews do.. but if they truly do believe in their religion, then they would not disrespect the prophets themselves.

[lovethetriangle]

it was a dumb analogy not a simple concept... there is a difference







maybe because HE BROUGHT JESUS INTO A SPORTS CONVERSATION AND COMPARED HIM TO KOBE!

Dislike for a basketball player is not remotely comparable to hate for a religious figure

how f*ckin stupid do you have to be to not see where the two dont coincide with each other?





And it only takes a brain the size of a napkin to understand that dislike for a basketball player is not comparable to hate of a religion figure for which people are willing to kill and die and go to war

Kobe Bryant is a f*ckin basketball player...We are discussing why we like/dislike a baskeball player..not a religious figure... you kids need to get your heads outta your asses and get your minds right...

maybe his analogy would have made sense if he had kept it logical...like say, comparing Kobe to another sports figure...

But jesus? C'mon... thats just dumb... there is a whole culture built around jesus christ and there have already been wars fought over christ and people could have number of reasons to hate christ and christians, its not as simple as you simpletons wanna make it out to be..


Are you not aware of the word microcosm??

[reppy]

Are you not aware of the word microcosm??

Yes. The other day, I saw a really attractive girl and had a microcosm in my pants. It was just a few drips, hence a microcosm.












That was really lame. :hammerhead:

[lovethetriangle]

I used to hate the dude, passionately. I used to be a Magic fan and an even bigger Penny fan. I'm talking about basketball card collecting... mint condition Nick Anderson, Magic Fan. The Celtics of course weren't really doing anything; Rick Fox, Dino Raja, Dana Barrows... Shaq got traded, killed the Magic, and it was instant hate for the Lakers, and everyone who played on those teams... and then Bryant got all the unncessary hype coming out of high school, and Penny was forgotten, so that compounded matters. Along the way, I grew up and realized that I had dumb, juvenile reasons for hating Shaq, Bryant and the rest of the Lakers, so I've been pretty gracious with the franchise thoughout their championship years and up to now.

I just think it's part of being a real basketball fan. The Bulls and Magic were my favorite teams growing up, but I know plenty of people who absolutely hated the Bulls and Jordan. Each and every one of them regrets it now because they never allowed themselves to enjoy what Jordan and the Bulls were doing. I never wanted that to be me That's why you'll never really hear much hate out of me... unless it's about Rick Fox... I really hate that traitor...

But yeah, I try to keep favorable opinions of most players when possible.


With these two paragraphs alone you have my utmost respect as a poster and basketball fan. Cheers man.

[elementally morale]

reppy,

you are talking about theory and purists (orthodox people in the original sense ot the word). I'm talking about everyday practice.

I know plenty of people living in our culture who hate the Islam - because they hate terrorists. Thus, when they hear the name of Allah, they hate just as well. They don't realize Allah or even 'real' faith in him has nothing to do with 9/11.

The same goes the other way round. In practice, not in theory.

[reppy]

reppy,

you are talking about theory and purists (orthodox people in the original sense ot the word). I'm talking about everyday practice.

I know plenty of people living in our culture who hate the Islam - because they hate terrorists. Thus, when they hear the name of Allah, they hate just as well. They don't realize Allah or even 'real' faith in him has nothing to do with 9/11.

The same goes the other way round. In practice, not in theory.

OK well.. personally I've never talked to a Muslim that had anything bad to say about Jesus, so..

[elementally morale]

but I know plenty of people who absolutely hated the Bulls and Jordan. Each and every one of them regrets it now because they never allowed themselves to enjoy what Jordan and the Bulls were doing.

Chalk me up. I know what you're talking about. I admired Jordan but I hated him . and at first I didn't know why. Later on I realized that I hated him because the Bulls beat the Lakers in the 1991 Finals, which turned out to be Magic Johnson's last full year, and magic was (and still is) absolute #1 on my list.

And later on I learned to appreciate Jordan and started to collect and download lots of Bulls games to make up for the ones I missed 'live'.

[lovethetriangle]

Chalk me up. I know what you're talking about. I admired Jordan but I hated him . and at first I didn't know why. Later on I realized that I hated him because the Bulls beat the Lakers in the 1991 Finals, which turned out to be Magic Johnson's last full year, and magic was (and still is) absolute #1 on my list.

And later on I learned to appreciate Jordan and started to collect and download lots of Bulls games to make up for the ones I missed 'live'.


Exactly my 90s. I can't believe I cheered for the Sonics vs. the Bulls and looked for everything wrong with Jordan but never could find it. Now I'm stuck with NBA's greatest games.

[elementally morale]

Exactly my 90s. I can't believe I cheered for the Sonics vs. the Bulls and looked for everything wrong with Jordan but never could find it. Now I'm stuck with NBA's greatest games.

Man, I cheered EVERYONE against the Bulls. Portland. Phoenix. Seattle. I even cheered friggin' UTAH against Jordan, with the Karl Malone I absolutely hated.... because I wanted Jordan to lose that much.

Silly me.

[lovethetriangle]

Man, I cheered EVERYONE against the Bulls. Portland. Phoenix. Seattle. I even cheered friggin' UTAH against Jordan, with the Karl Malone I absolutely hated.... because I wanted Jordan to lose that much.

Silly me.


We live we learn man. Better late than never. MJ was God and I wish I had realized it earlier!

[reppy]

I cheered everyone against Jordan, too. But I'm also a Blazers fan. So it's not like I just hated him because he was good. I hated him because he beat my team.

And he always seemed to get the lucky breaks. Or the right call. Or whatever. Pissed me off.

[elementally morale]

I cheered everyone against Jordan, too. But I'm also a Blazers fan. So it's not like I just hated him because he was good. I hated him because he beat my team.

And he always seemed to get the lucky breaks. Or the right call. Or whatever. Pissed me off.

I started to hate him for the exact same reason. He won his 1st championship by beating my team and negating my idol's chances to win (his last) championship.

And I tried to criticize everything Jordan-related. His shot selection. His selfishness. His agendas. His marriage. His alienating his teammates. I was every bit like your average Kobe hater is today. I was 17-18-19 years old at the time.

[lovethetriangle]

I started to hate him for the exact same reason. He won his 1st championship by beating my team and negating my idol's chances to win (his last) championship.

And I tried to criticize everything Jordan-related. His shot selection. His selfishness. His agendas. His marriage. His alienating his teammates. I was every bit like your average Kobe hater is today. I was 17-18-19 years old at the time.


Is this setting up a brilliant new thread topic? All objective fans now were once irrational jordan haters but learned from their mistakes in order to further their appreciation for the game.

[looki nobawls]

I hate watching basketball with dirty players, badly reffed players and players who take too much advantage of the crappy nba rules. That's why I just largely ignored the 90's nba basketball of the bulls and jazz. Only complete bulls series I watched was vs the blazers and the rest I only watched 1 game per finals series just to check out the refs. 80's basketball is still the best the nba has offered.

There were a few bright spots in the 90's such as Hakeem, Drob's defense, Mutombo's defense, kj, penny and the emergence of the twin towers. Nowadays, I don't watch teams like the spurs and heat because of both dirty and badly reffed players just like the bulls and jazz.

So now you guys have met a guy who never cared about the 90's bulls and their bandwagon fans like knoe, aap, loki, jpr etc. (they're all the same to me). They're people who are always busy watching the same recorded basketball games over and over, but have never bothered to pick up a basketball and actually play on the playground. I'm glad because they always turn out to be retarded, loudmouth, tongue sticking fools who have no ballhandling, passing or shooting skills. I don't hate the bulls, I just wouldn't be entertained by that type of basketball. I do hate their groupie fans because they just won't shut up and allow today's fans to enjoy their generation of basketball.

[EricForman]

Is this setting up a brilliant new thread topic? All objective fans now were once irrational jordan haters but learned from their mistakes in order to further their appreciation for the game.

Yes, but sorry, there ain't gonna be no parallels between the Jordan haters and the Kobe haters, if that's what you're getting at.

[elementally morale]

Yes, but sorry, there ain't gonna be no parallels between the Jordan haters and the Kobe haters, if that's what you're getting at.

There are going to be *some* parallels. 10-15 years from now the will-have-been-haters will realize that Bryant was actually better and alot more entertaining than they gave them credit for. Sure, they will not say he is the GOAT - simply because there is no such thing to be seen now or to be discovered later.

However, these guys or at least most of them will be able to tell the difference between the irrational and the 'rational' part of their dislike.

I still don't like Jordan. But now I'm able to tell you the (or at least some of the) exact reasons of what I don't like about his game and personality. At least that's what I think. 15 years ago I was just a hater. That I know.

[lovethetriangle]

Yes, but sorry, there ain't gonna be no parallels between the Jordan haters and the Kobe haters, if that's what you're getting at.


Once again with the sweeping statement. Zero explanation.

As soon as I mentioned MJ and Kobe in the same breathe, you blow me off.

Did I compare their game? No. Did I compare their influence on basketball? No.

I compared how they have been treated by fans over time. Once again, understand the concept analogy. Then speak.

Read the material first. I'm not saying your wrong, all I ask is for an explanation.

[Rasheed1]

Jordan was never hated like kobe is... another bad comparison...

people liked to root against jordan, but he never did the things kobe would do, like put his personal agendas in front of winning basketball games...put his personal issues above the team...


kobe is closer to a guy like TO than he is to Mj.....

talented guy, but kooky in the brain.......

[lovethetriangle]

Jordan was never hated like kobe is... another bad comparison...

people liked to root against jordan, but he never did the things kobe would do, like put his personal agendas in front of winning basketball games...put his personal issues above the team...


kobe is closer to a guy like TO than he is to Mj.....

talented guy, but kooky in the brain.......


How old are you Rasheed1? I assume 15? 18? Then you don't know what it is to be a diehard basketball fan in the 90s rooting for a team other than the Bulls. Jordan was absolutely HATED by us non-bulls fans. We searched for every reason to magnify what a ballhog/*******/not as good as he's made out to be basketball player. Jordan had HATERS. The exact same kind as kobe. We prayed for the Sonics and the Jazz to win. Can you even fathom trying to cheer for Jeff Hornacek over Michael Jordan? That takes a whole lot of hating. They year they lost to the Celtics on opening night, I think it was the year after 70 wins, we said he was done. There were so many occassions when we said he was finished but then he just proved us wrong.

MJ was hated with the same magnitude. Know your basketball.

[Rasheed1]

How old are you Rasheed1? I assume 15? 18? Then you don't know what it is to be a diehard basketball fan in the 90s rooting for a team other than the Bulls. Jordan was absolutely HATED by us non-bulls fans. We searched for every reason to magnify what a ballhog/*******/not as good as he's made out to be basketball player. Jordan had HATERS. The exact same kind as kobe. We prayed for the Sonics and the Jazz to win. Can you even fathom trying to cheer for Jeff Hornacek over Michael Jordan? That takes a whole lot of hating. They year they lost to the Celtics on opening night, I think it was the year after 70 wins, we said he was done. There were so many occassions when we said he was finished but then he just proved us wrong.

MJ was hated with the same magnitude. Know your basketball.

Shut up!

Im 32 years old and have watched the Lakers dynasty in the 80s and the bulls dynasty in the 90s


watch your mouth kid...


Jordan was not hated like kobe is.....


Jordan was feared, kobe is not.....

there is a difference, you should recognize it..

people rooted against Jordan because he was unstoppable and they wanted see him fall...people dislike kobe because he is pr*ck and he has put his personal agendas before the team.....

big difference.....

people feared Jordan and prayed for his downfall.....fans dont fear kobe...they just dislike kobe and all his unwarranted hype....

learn the difference

[gts]

kobe, jordan pick any person at the top of his sport, field or profession... it's kinda funny how these people are put up on the stage, cheered and pushed, asked for more, we love them then when they reach the top so many love to see them fall, the farhter they fall for some the better... just sort of odd how we as a society can be so fickle sometimes.... i'll use tom cruise for an example, he makes a movie we like it, he makes another we think he's great the studios pay him more the movies keep rolling and he all of a sudden he's big time, now lets all sit back judge him on his life choices and talk about what a puke he is and hope his next movie fails, we judge him on something that actually has no bearing on his movies and what drew us to him in the first place...

[IBall280]

bad comparison

[elementally morale]

bad comparison

I think the Tom Cruise analogy is pretty decent. Cruise is an actor and a proven movie maker. We as 'movie-goers' should judga him based on his films - not on his wife, L. Ron Hubbard or Oprah.

If you don't like 'Vanilla Sky' or 'The others' - fine. If you can't see the maturation process of an actor between 'Top Gun' and 'Magnolia', it's bad for you, but still OK I guess.

But if you are just trying to find fault at whatever Tom Cruise does because you hate him, that makes you a 'legit' hater but also a person who doesn't want to pay attention to movies - the original thing.

And the fact that Edward Norton or Anthony Hopkins are better actors doesn't make Cruise any worse. And his scientology idiocy has absolutely zip to do with his film making ability - or lack thereof.

[elementally morale]

Jordan was never hated like kobe is...

He was. He was doubted and hated. I had been playing organized basketball for like 8-10 years when he started to really shine, and 14 out of the 15 guys I played on my team with hated Jordan. Absolutely. We even analyzed how BAD a player he is, and WHY he is bad for the TEAM. Why was our vision so distorted? Due to immense hate.

[Rasheed1]

We even analyzed how BAD a player he is, and WHY he is bad for the TEAM. Why was our vision so distorted? Due to immense hate.

there were no flaws in Jordan's game, and you'd be searching until you were a senior citizen to find a reason why he was BAD for a team........ thats was obviously a waste of time

......on the other hand Kobe has proven many of the people who dislike him to be correct thus far.....

:confusedshrug:

So called haters have maintained that without Shaq, Kobe would have no rings and he isnt anywhere near Jordan's level of play.... put another star guard with Shaq and they would win also....

as far as Mj goes, he had no peers whatsoever (and it was not debatable).....

players were scared to even utter a bad word about Jordan....Very different from kobe

I knew plenty of people who swore up and down year after year that Jordan was gonna fall, but year after year, the bulls proved them wrong...

By the time the bulls beat phoenix, I had learned my lesson about doubting that guy in big games.... he simply would have no part of losing big games

people hated/feared him due to that fact....

people dont fear kobe....they just dont like him and his [raja]pompous[/bell] attitude and the drama queen he can occasionally be

[elementally morale]

there were no flaws in Jordan's game, and you'd be searching until you were a senior citizen to find a reason why he was BAD for a team........ thats was obviously a waste of time

It sure was. And of course there were flaws in Jordan's game, but winning it all so many times justifies everything in retrospect. Anyway, the bottom line is that I hated Jordan, and it had little to do with him doing anything (wrong), as it had everything to do with my state of mind at the time.

You don't have to be dumb and ignorant to be a hater. In fact, if you are smart enough it just makes hating all the more easier, because you are able to rationalize it and make things seem justified. Loki is not dumb and neither is Knoe. Their intelligence only helps them properly hate.

And no, 18 is no senior citizen. Most people start 'really' maturing over 40. Some never ever mature. At 18, 22, 24... you're still a kid. Of course you don't see it that way when you are 18, 22 and 24, respectively. But all 16 year olds think that 12 year olds are little kids. And they are right. And they think 4 years between 12-16 makes a huge difference.... It sure makes *some*, but not that much. You will not change THAT much until you are a student. Family, going to work every day and having kids changes things a lot more in 3 years than you've changed in the 10 years that preceded it.

[hotsizzle]

there were no flaws in Jordan's game, and you'd be searching until you were a senior citizen to find a reason why he was BAD for a team........ thats was obviously a waste of time

......on the other hand Kobe has proven many of the people who dislike him to be correct thus far.....

:confusedshrug:

So called haters have maintained that without Shaq, Kobe would have no rings and he isnt anywhere near Jordan's level of play.... put another star guard with Shaq and they would win also....

as far as Mj goes, he had no peers whatsoever (and it was not debatable).....

players were scared to even utter a bad word about Jordan....Very different from kobe

I knew plenty of people who swore up and down year after year that Jordan was gonna fall, but year after year, the bulls proved them wrong...

By the time the bulls beat phoenix, I had learned my lesson about doubting that guy in big games.... he simply would have no part of losing big games

people hated/feared him due to that fact....

people dont fear kobe....they just dont like him and his [raja]pompous[/bell] attitude and the drama queen he can occasionally be

im not gonna argue whos hated more cuz im not old enuf to have experienced the jordan era...

kobe haters said he'd never win w/o shaq...hes in his third yr currently w/o shaq, his second half of his career is yet to pan out so there goes that arguement of kobe's failures w/o shaq

and players around the league do fear kobe and describe him with "he'll rip your heart out and eat it in front of you"..."hes a cold blooded killer". AK recently said that he locked bryant down but he quickly pulled the comments back...didnt matter, Kobe lit him up the time after. ask avery johnson who developed a "kobe rules" that he uses pretty much against every swingman now. Kobe is feared by the opposing teams/coaches and by opposing fans. Not saying hes on jordan's level but to say Kobe isnt feared is false.

and about being scared to even utter a bad word at MJ...rookie stackhouse sure didnt. MJ did light him up and I know that the L feared MJ...but there were comments out there and Jordan being the competitor he is took all the criticsm he heard from fans/players and used it to his favor

all that said, hate is wrong just to begin with. its disrespect to the game and it goes beyond basketball. ppl need to enjoy the game and enjoy what they're seeing...cuz some things dont last forever

[EricForman]

Once again with the sweeping statement. Zero explanation.

As soon as I mentioned MJ and Kobe in the same breathe, you blow me off.

Did I compare their game? No. Did I compare their influence on basketball? No.

I compared how they have been treated by fans over time. Once again, understand the concept analogy. Then speak.

Read the material first. I'm not saying your wrong, all I ask is for an explanation.


Ok. I read a few of you say "I used to root against Jordan, I hated him". Then followed that by "but in the end, I realized today he is one of the greatest and I was just unfairly hating back then".

Not just one, but three or four of you Kobe fans said this. Then you mentioned something about

"Is this setting up a brilliant new thread topic? All objective fans now were once irrational jordan haters but learned from their mistakes in order to further their appreciation for the game."


Thus implying at a PARALLEL between you guys hating Jordan and anti Kobe guys on this board such as myself, Loki, and a few others (I'm talking about the reasonable ones).

I'm just saying nope because Jordan was indeed HANDS DOWN the best player in the league when you guys were "hating" and "dismissing his game" (like one of you guys said you did, "criticizing his game"). But Kobe isn't the best player in the game, and a case can be made for at least 3 others to be superior. Kobe also has alot more flaws/incidents which justify the dislike, as oppose to Jordan, whom you guys basically admit disliked only because he beat your Lakers.

Yes, Jordan wasn't perfect or anything, but to knock his game and critize his game in the early 90s is hell lot HARDER task to do than knock Kobe's game and critcize him the last 4 years.

I shot down the parallel because there was a hidden agenda there, that "us anti Kobe guys will realize 10 years from now that "wow, we were all wrong, Kobe was the best player in the game between 2003 to 2009 and I was unfairly favoring Duncan over him".

Nope. Not gonnahappen unless something drastic happens. I will admit Kobe is finally playing great team ball though.




Jordan was absolutely HATED by us non-bulls fans. We searched for every reason to magnify what a ballhog/*******/not as good as he's made out to be basketball player. Jordan had HATERS

I dunno about that, man. Even before the "incident" in 2004 with Shaq and the Colorado, Kobe had incidents where he was booed vehmently for no reason (in Philly for ASG), after the "incident" in 2004, he was the most disliked player in the league getting booed EVERYTIME he touch the ball in every arena he played in. It's starting to die down a little, but don't tell me Jordan recieved that kind of negative response as Kobe did between 2004 to 2006.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Bmp!

[Rasheed1]

kobe haters said he'd never win w/o shaq...hes in his third yr currently w/o shaq, his second half of his career is yet to pan out so there goes that arguement of kobe's failures w/o shaq

Kobe hasnt won anything yet has he? So that prediction by the 'haters' is correct until kobe actually wins something without the diesel...


and about being scared to even utter a bad word at MJ...rookie stackhouse sure didnt. MJ did light him up and I know that the L feared MJ...but there were comments out there and Jordan being the competitor he is took all the criticsm he heard from fans/players and used it to his favor



Jordan made people pay for shootin off their mouths..... he did it so consistantly, that people stopped talking sh*t... Stackhouse was one of the few hard headed people who figured he couldnt get embarassed... Well, Jordan, as you yourself said, "lit him up" like a candle even.... nobody wanted problems with Mj.....

kobe is not like that.... its not even close here....kobe does not command that type of respect from anybody... He is a great player, yes....very skilled and deadly.....but he is not comparable to Mj at all...


and players around the league do fear kobe and describe him with "he'll rip your heart out and eat it in front of you"..."hes a cold blooded killer". AK recently said that he locked bryant down but he quickly pulled the comments back...didnt matter, Kobe lit him up the time after. ask avery johnson who developed a "kobe rules" that he uses pretty much against every swingman now. Kobe is feared by the opposing teams/coaches and by opposing fans. Not saying hes on jordan's level but to say Kobe isnt feared is false.


Kobe is about as feared as any elite guard in the game today... Iverson and Tmac, D Wade are feared to the same level as kobe.... :confusedshrug:


Kobe brings no-where near the level of intimidation that Mj brought to the game...



all that said, hate is wrong just to begin with. its disrespect to the game and it goes beyond basketball. ppl need to enjoy the game and enjoy what they're seeing...cuz some things dont last forever


Oh you are soo wrong.....

Basketball is a sport...its entertainment...

Rootin against players is as much a part of the game as rooting for players.... Hatin players is not wrong, its not disrespectful... What are saying? I have to like all NBA players? you know thats 'pie in sky' stuff that will never be reality..

When the NBA was in its golden age, rivalries love and hate made the whole thing work....

there are no real rivalries right now, but there are still un-likable characters in the NBA and Kobe is one of the biggest ones... Mostly because of his character & his fans though..

[gb8]

Kobe hasnt won anything yet has he? So that prediction by the 'haters' is correct until kobe actually wins something without the diesel...




Jordan made people pay for shootin off their mouths..... he did it so consistantly, that people stopped talking sh*t... Stackhouse was one of the few hard headed people who figured he couldnt get embarassed... Well, Jordan, as you yourself said, "lit him up" like a candle even.... nobody wanted problems with Mj.....

kobe is not like that.... its not even close here....kobe does not command that type of respect from anybody... He is a great player, yes....very skilled and deadly.....but he is not comparable to Mj at all...




Kobe is about as feared as any elite guard in the game today... Iverson and Tmac, D Wade are feared to the same level as kobe.... :confusedshrug:


Kobe brings no-where near the level of intimidation that Mj brought to the game...





Oh you are soo wrong.....

Basketball is a sport...its entertainment...

Rootin against players is as much a part of the game as rooting for players.... Hatin players is not wrong, its not disrespectful... What are saying? I have to like all NBA players? you know thats 'pie in sky' stuff that will never be reality..

When the NBA was in its golden age, rivalries love and hate made the whole thing work....

there are no real rivalries right now, but there are still un-likable characters in the NBA and Kobe is one of the biggest ones... Mostly because of his character & his fans though..

Most of what you have written is conjecture based upon how you view the current state of the nba, without one clearly dominant player being feared as was the case with jordan, however to say that bryant hasnt garnered some of the same praise from his peers, deserved or undeserved in yoru opinion is clearly wrong. Plenty of people in the basketball fraternity, from coaches, i.e riley most recent example to the likes of elite players, likes of amare gilbert, have all stated claim to kobe being the best player in the league and the he has to my recollection. Also the media itself has garnered us with a similar mantra as to how kobe has a killer instinct blah blah blah, combined with the respect and praise he has been given from his peers atleast suggests that there are similarities present as to how he is feared and how jordan was, granted to a lesser extent.

Also Bump.

[Rasheed1]

Most of what you have written is conjecture based upon how you view the current state of the nba, without one clearly dominant player being feared as was the case with jordan, however to say that bryant hasnt garnered some of the same praise from his peers, deserved or undeserved in yoru opinion is clearly wrong. Plenty of people in the basketball fraternity, from coaches, i.e riley most recent example to the likes of elite players, likes of amare gilbert, have all stated claim to kobe being the best player in the league and the he has to my recollection. Also the media itself has garnered us with a similar mantra as to how kobe has a killer instinct blah blah blah, combined with the respect and praise he has been given from his peers atleast suggests that there are similarities present as to how he is feared and how jordan was, granted to a lesser extent.

Also Bump.

I agree, but the same would then go for your opinion on the issues too...

You could say there is a group of fans, players, coaches etc... that believe kobe to be the best in the NBA and a killer like Jordan....

But I can find players and coaches and others who dont believe that to be true....

:confusedshrug:

I know one thing that was certain...when Mj played, there was no debate about who was the best...there was nobody to choose other than Mj...

It wasnt a case of some people saying Clyde Drexler was the man, it was like a damn explosion when Mike entered the league.... He was killing teams... people were like whoah...

fans knew Jordan was the best player in the game back before he ever won a championship...

Of course you had the usual "a scoring champion is too selfish to win a title" and other criticisms.....but there wasnt a debate about Jordan's impact

like I have said a few times, kobe is an excellent player, but he hasnt distinguished himself from the other great players in the league... Some would like to argue that he has, but honestly, if it was that obvious we wouldnt be having this convo... It was that obvious when Mj did it...

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

What is it with these "grown ass men" wasting their time hating on a single basketball player 24/7?

That's **** teenagers do before they discover ***** and weed.

[gb8]

I agree, but the same would then go for your opinion on the issues too...

You could say there is a group of fans, players, coaches etc... that believe kobe to be the best in the NBA and a killer like Jordan....

But I can find players and coaches and others who dont believe that to be true....

:confusedshrug:

I know one thing that was certain...when Mj played, there was no debate about who was the best...there was nobody to choose other than Mj...

It wasnt a case of some people saying Clyde Drexler was the man, it was like a damn explosion when Mike entered the league.... He was killing teams... people were like whoah...

fans knew Jordan was the best player in the game back before he ever won a championship...

Of course you had the usual "a scoring champion is too selfish to win a title" and other criticisms.....but there wasnt a debate about Jordan's impact

like I have said a few times, kobe is an excellent player, but he hasnt distinguished himself from the other great players in the league... Some would like to argue that he has, but honestly, if it was that obvious we wouldnt be having this convo... It was that obvious when Mj did it...

I think you are right for the most part, however from my point of you more people do view him to be the best then dont that dont, in regards to his peers. The only thing that even comes close to providing objective data on this matter is perhaps the gm poll at start of seasons and he has been consistently voted as top player most clutch etc. Although it is no were near the near unanimous respect as best player and what not that jordan had.
Just to point out before the blazers bulls series some were were saying that clyde is on the same level as jordan, i.e mentioning his name in the same breath as jordas prior to that series, and we all know what jordan did to portland.

[kblaze]

Great thread

[lovethetriangle]

bump

[20 Dimes A Game]

Ah this is the reference made earlier.

[crisoner]

What do you call a guy who has a penchant for hyperbole? 90% of my time? Please...


LOL

Thats a "Knoebe" type of response!!!

Now whatever happen to that guy? Funny he gets ghost when Kobe wins the MVP and the Lakers go deep in the playoffs. If hey loseI bet him and other trolls will be back.

My props to Loki though....he is still here!!!!

[lovethetriangle]

Try to read the posts of Laker Logic/Elemenarymoralle pages 1-7/8, GOLD.

[Rojogaqu11]

Most people that really dislike Kobe are old Jordan followers. That's what I conclude from reading all the comments.

To me Kobe can be named alonside Jordan, even if Jordan is/were superior in basketball. They are players with many similarities but also many differences.

Kobe right now is one of the best players ever.

[biisak]

Most people that really dislike Kobe are old Jordan followers. That's what I conclude from reading all the comments.

To me Kobe can be named alonside Jordan, even if Jordan is/were superior in basketball. They are players with many similarities but also many differences.

Kobe right now is one of the best players ever.

No, most people who dislike Kobe (on these forums) do so because of people like you.

[mjbulls23]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: at this whole thread. If you don't like what he has to say you can either address the good points in the post (if any), or just move on and ignore the post.

That goes for any ISH poster as well, not just Loki

[Da_Realist]

Just to point out before the blazers bulls series some were were saying that clyde is on the same level as jordan, i.e mentioning his name in the same breath as jordas prior to that series, and we all know what jordan did to portland.

That was just hype. No one truly thought Clyde was a better player. To hype the series the media chose to use stats to show that Clyde was at least comparable (I haven't checked, but obviously higher 3pt %, maybe higher assists and/or rebounds). But we all know there is more to basketball than stats.

[Revelation]

Just thought I’d throw my opinion in… even if it is a little bit off topic.

When Kobe Bryant first started to emerge as a superstar... I was a big fan. I enjoyed watching him play and I was glad we had a player of his caliber to fill the shoes of Jordan. As time went by and more and more people started to proclaim Kobe's greatness, I begin to dislike him more and more. By "dislike" I do not mean I actually disliked Kobe Bryant the basketball player; nothing could be further from the truth (I think Bryant's game is, for the most part, beautiful). What I disliked was the biased Lakers fans and people in the media who were obviously either A) Laker Fans or B) Trying to create controversy.

I have NO problem with people who say:

1. Bryant is the best player in the league.
Most experts would agree with you. Though arguments can be made for a few other players, I think Bryant clearly has the crown right now.

2. Bryant is one of the greatest players ever.
Anybody who disagrees with this statement is obviously biased.

3. Bryant plays like Jordan
Again, this is obvious. The similarities are astonishing. Though, I must say, there are also glaring differences in certain areas of the game.


I DO have a problem with people who say:

1. Bryant is the greatest player ever.
This is completely uncalled for; NOTHING warrants such a statement. Not accomplishments, statistics, or logic of any kind. Stating such a thing is very disrespectful to previous greats such as Magic, Jordan, Bird, Kareem and others.

2. Bryant is better than Jordan.
See #1.

3. Bryant is miles ahead of anybody in the league today.
I think, again, anybody who is unbiased must admit that there are several players (in the league today) who are "nipping at his heels", if not already there.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

i'm wondering when some of these kobe haters are gonna start apologizing for all the dmb sht they've said in the past. I've been on this board for a few years and I've heard all of these arguments from kobe haters;
iverson is better than kobe
wade is better than kobe
t-mac is better than kobe

I've heard Kobe will never make it out of the first round.
I've heard Kobe can never be the first option on a winning team.
I've heard Kobe will never win an MVP.

Come on haters, :bowdown: to the King

[Fatal9]

edit: wrong thread

[lovethetriangle]

Where's Loki?? greatest poster ever!

[Doranku]

Where's Loki?? greatest poster ever!

Loki = OldSchoolBBall

[winwin]

Where's Loki?? greatest poster ever!
R.I.P Loki
cause of death: 2 rings + 2 Finals MVP's (last 2 seasons)

[Hulk Hogan]

Loki = OldSchoolBBall

This.

[branslowski]

Damn, this n!gga been overratin every teamate of Kobes for 4yrs now...Haven't seen this big of agenda since Alpha Wolf and his Jordan bashing (oddly enough, overrating Jordans teamates a little).

[The_Yearning]

So is this the thread that ended Loki's career here on ISH?

[lovethetriangle]

So is this the thread that ended Loki's career here on ISH?


I'm not sure if he ever came back after this. The back and forth between him and "Laker Logic" is in my opinion, the greatest ISH debate of all time.

[AlphaWolf24]

Isn't "Loki" the Norse God of "lies"....


just sayin.....



He ended up getting hung by his arse...:lol


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2272000/AlphaWolf-2272214_89_89.jpg