I live in an ass backwards state

[rufuspaul]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57430515-503544/north-carolina-passes-amendment-banning-same-sex-marriage/


A majority of North Carolina voters on Tuesday approved a controversial amendment that will write a ban on same-sex marriage as well as civil unions for both gay and straight couples into the state Constitution, according to the Associated Press.

With most precincts reporting, the amendment was passing by a 61 percent to 39 percent margin.

The amendment mandates that "marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized." Opponents of the measure ran ads stressing the impact the language would have on straight North Carolina residents, arguing that the measure would eliminate protections against domestic violence.

Former President Bill Clinton campaigned against the amendment, arguing that it "will hurt families and drive away jobs," and President Obama opposed it in a statement - though the president, who is walking a careful line on same-sex marriage, did not mention the amendment during a recent visit to the state.

Supporters, like 93-year-old Rev. Billy Graham, made a more straightforward appeal: "Watching the moral decline of our country causes me great concern," he said in a newspaper ad supporting the amendment. "I believe the home and marriage is the foundation of our society and must be protected."

Polls showed that many North Carolina voters did not understand that the amendment would impact straight couples as well as same-sex couples. The state already has a law banning same-sex marriage on the books; supporters of the amendment said it was necessary because the law could be struck down by judges.

With the passage of the amendment, North Carolina becomes the 30th state and final former Confederate state to write a same-sex marriage ban into its Constitution. Other states are going in the opposite direction: Seven states, mostly in the Northeast, and the District of Columbia have made same-sex marriage legal.

The amendment's passage comes in the wake of statements by Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of Education Arne Duncan that seemed to support same-sex marriage. President Obama has not come out in favor of same-sex marriage, but says his views on the issue are "evolving".

The White House insists Biden's comment that he is "absolutely comfortable" with same-sex couples marrying did not represent a break with the official administration position.

In a statement reported by the Associated Press, Obama campaign spokesman Cameron French said the president was disappointed in passage of the "divisive and discriminatory" ban.

A survey by Gallup on Tuesday found that 50 percent of Americans support legal same-sex marriage, while 48 percent oppose it.

Tami Fitzgerald, head of the group Vote FOR Marriage NC, which backed the amendment, told the AP it sends a message to the country.

"The whole point is simply that you don't rewrite the nature of God's design based on the demands of a group of adults," she said.

Rea Carey, Executive Director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, called the amendment a "brutal step backward."

"Blocking loving couples from forming legal unions like domestic partnerships, civil unions and marriage flies in the face of family values," added Carey.


:facepalm At least I live in one of 6 counties that voted against.


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/kkk.jpg

[InspiredLebowski]

Indiana just voted out an immensely respected 6 term Senator that was the ranking member of the Council on Foreign Relations and has done more than almost anyone in history to get rid of nuclear weapons.

He got voted out because he took a couple pictures with Obama basically. I'm ashamed.

[dunksby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

[niko]

IT WILL DRIVE AWAY JOBS. Really? Because some of the bigger states have the laws in place.

It always perplexed me the fear people have of same sex unions. WE have had laws in place protecting people in them for a long time. We all didn't burst into flames because of this.

[DeuceWallaces]

Bunch of idiots; just let the south burn.

[rufuspaul]

The thing that kills me is NC has the 5th highest unemployment rate in the country and our elected officials spend their time on shit like this. :mad:

[ballup]

Supporters of gay marriage reacted with dismay yesterday after Britain's most senior Roman Catholic clergyman said plans to allow same-sex marriages were as morally questionable as reintroducing slavery.
Apparently, gay marriage is on a similar immoral stage as slavery (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cardinal-samesex-marriage-is-just-as-immoral-as-slavery-7536454.html)

[fos]

The government shouldn't be in the marriage business, period. Having the government not recognize "marriage" is a win-win IMO for both sides of the issue.

[ballup]

The government shouldn't be in the marriage business, period. Having the government not recognize "marriage" is a win-win IMO for both sides of the issue.
It's very well tied in with the government. Married couples can get a tax deduction that isn't applicable to unmarried couples. It's one of the big reasons as to why some gay people want to get married.

[fos]

It's very well tied in with the government. Married couples can get a tax deduction that isn't applicable to unmarried couples. It's one of the big reasons as to why some gay people want to get married.

Yeah, and they shouldn't. :cheers:

[JtotheIzzo]

North Carolina (no homo)



literally

[Nanners]

whats most ironic about this is that the people who voted for this amendment are the same people who always bitch about how the liberals want to take away their "freedoms", and here they are trying to limit the freedom of other people. we live in a country full of ****ing moronic hypocrites.

[heyhey]

1 yr left in my 4 year stretch down here

[DeuceWallaces]

Republicans are all for reduced gov't until you want to marry someone, pay someone to have sex, not be christian, put drugs in your body, or decide to abort a fetus growing inside you.

[rufuspaul]

It's very well tied in with the government. Married couples can get a tax deduction that isn't applicable to unmarried couples. It's one of the big reasons as to why some gay people want to get married.


Actually married couples usually pay more in taxes. The real issue with this amendment is the wording. It states that the only legally recognized civil union in the state is the marriage of one man and one woman. That puts a whole slew of people, straight and gay in danger of losing benefits and protection under the law. Here's a comment from today's Charlotte Observer:



Great Job everybody!! Amendment One has passed! For those of you that voted, I'm sure your very proud of yourselves; some might even be celbrating and all smiles. Now, lets discuss what that means:

Children who have single parents and are covered by their parent's insurance will no longer be able to be covered. So single Mom's and single Dad's, you better find someone to marry so your kid's can stay healthy.

Woman who are in abusive relationships and are ready to get out will no longer be able to seek protection under the law, that is unless they want to marry the abuser.

Elderly married couples will no longer be able to continue their health insurance if one of them dies, because...yep you guessed it - they won't be married anymore! Better remarry if you wanna stay healthy. Yes even if your 80, although I wouldn't suggest speed dating at your age....

Now here's the kicker - you see, Gay's and Lesbians have never been able to marry legally in the state of NC, and with Amendment One, WE STILL CAN'T - No change there!!!

So as you can see, really, the people that were impacted the most by this amendment were heterosexual citizens. But this Amendment was sold to the public with Anti-Gay packaging.

Exit polls showed that most people who voted for the amendment said that it was a referendum on whether they thought homosexuality was right or wrong.
:facepalm Stupid fukks.

[LJJ]

I live in an ass backwards country

Fixed.

[DeuceWallaces]

Actually married couples usually pay more in taxes. The real issue with this amendment is the wording. It states that the only legally recognized civil union in the state is the marriage of one man and one woman. That puts a whole slew of people, straight and gay in danger of losing benefits and protection under the law. Here's a comment from today's Charlotte Observer:



Exit polls showed that most people who voted for the amendment said that it was a referendum on whether they thought homosexuality was right or wrong.
:facepalm Stupid fukks.

Lol that's classic. Where's Sherman when you need him.

[rufuspaul]

Republicans are all for reduced gov't until you want to marry someone, pay someone to have sex, not be christian, put drugs in your body, or decide to abort a fetus growing inside you.


They can't decide whether this country should be a plutocracy or a theocracy.

[rufuspaul]

Lol that's classic. Where's Sherman when you need him.

But if you want to marry your cousin it's perfectly legal as long as they are of the opposite sex. :rockon:

[heyhey]

They can't decide whether this country should be a plutocracy or a theocracy.

it's really a problem of the 2 party system

[Nanners]

Exit polls showed that most people who voted for the amendment said that it was a referendum on whether they thought homosexuality was right or wrong.
:facepalm Stupid fukks.


thats pretty hilarious actually. makes me feel a lot better about this whole thing, knowing that the idiots voting for this because they dislike gays were actually screwing themselves over :oldlol:

[fos]

Republicans are all for reduced gov't until you want to marry someone, pay someone to have sex, not be christian, put drugs in your body, or decide to abort a fetus growing inside you.

To be fair it was voted on by the state of North Carolina (who voted for Obama). Black democrats love them some anti-gay legislation :cheers: .

[bmulls]

Republicans are all for reduced gov't until you want to marry someone, pay someone to have sex, not be christian, put drugs in your body, or decide to abort a fetus growing inside you.

This is less a conservative/liberal issue and more a religious one.

I consider myself conservative, but I'm also an atheist, pro-abortion and don't give 2 shits if gay people get married.

The resistance to gay marriage comes from the Christian faith, not political leanings.

[rufuspaul]

To be fair it was voted on by the state of North Carolina (who voted for Obama). Black democrats love them some anti-gay legislation :cheers: .


True. It's confounding because the same bible thumping logic was used against black people time and again (Jim Crow, separate but equal, etc.). Hell interracial marriage was illegal in NC up until 1971. Why is it African Americans can't get over the "gay" word and realize that any legislation that makes an entire minority group 2nd class citizens is dangerous?

Quoting a friend of mine: Dear elected officials and jurists, just a friendly reminder: You put your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution, not the other way around.

[DeuceWallaces]

This is less a conservative/liberal issue and more a religious one.

I consider myself conservative, but I'm also an atheist, pro-abortion and don't give 2 shits if gay people get married.

The resistance to gay marriage comes from the Christian faith, not political leanings.

Sounds like you're a Libertarian. And it comes from ignorance, not christian faith.

[Rasheed1]

True. It's confounding because the same bible thumping logic was used against black people time and again (Jim Crow, separate but equal, etc.). Hell interracial marriage was illegal in NC up until 1971. Why is it African Americans can't get over the "gay" word and realize that any legislation that makes an entire minority group 2nd class citizens is dangerous?

Quoting a friend of mine: Dear elected officials and jurists, just a friendly reminder: You put your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution, not the other way around.


its not confounding at all... Americans are homophobic... If you go into the Italian community, you expect them to support gay marriage? Hispanic community?

I would agree that blacks should know better and be moral arbiters on issues of discrimination, but sadly people are too shortsighted to have any empathy or see the irony of their position

but then again, that seems to be the main theme running through all of this commentary about this state..

bass ackward thinking seems to be par for the course here

[rufuspaul]

Another interesting thing about this is that the text used to define marriage in the amendment comes from the Albemarle Assembly of 1669, 120 years before NC became a state.

Now that's progressive. :rolleyes:

[rufuspaul]

Apparently, gay marriage is on a similar immoral stage as slavery (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cardinal-samesex-marriage-is-just-as-immoral-as-slavery-7536454.html)


But slavery isn't immoral according to the book of Leviticus, the same book used by the bible thumpers to prove that God hates ffags. Leviticus states that it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery, among other things.

[rufuspaul]

Rufus I 100 percent endorse you moving to a state that allows gay marriage.






I'll move there too






We'll see what happens







Why don't we have a winking smiley?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Thanks man but I'm gonna stay here and fight the fight. When we finally win I'll send you a plane ticket.

[rufuspaul]

I lived in NC for a couple of years when I was younger, I thought they were kinda liberal...in the Durham and Raleigh areas anyway.

In a state where Duke, Wake Forest and UNC are in, you'd think they'd be more supportive of gays than anti.

Here are the counties that voted against the amendment:

Orange: Chapel Hill (UNC)
Durham: Duke
Wake: NC State
Chatham: just south of Chapel Hill
Watauga: Appalachian State
Buncombe: Asheville, a hippy haven
Mecklenburg: Charlotte, largest urban area of the state


Notice the pattern?

[Bucket_Nakedz]

Here are the counties that voted against the amendment:

Orange: Chapel Hill (UNC)
Durham: Duke
Wake: NC State
Chatham: just south of Chapel Hill
Watauga: Appalachian State
Buncombe: Asheville, a hippy haven
Mecklenburg: Charlotte, largest urban area of the state


Notice the pattern?
yeah, you haven't mentioned the nascar folk

[Black Joker]

Here are the counties that voted against the amendment:

Orange: Chapel Hill (UNC)
Durham: Duke
Wake: NC State
Chatham: just south of Chapel Hill
Watauga: Appalachian State
Buncombe: Asheville, a hippy haven
Mecklenburg: Charlotte, largest urban area of the state


Notice the pattern?
I can't believe Guilford County didn't vote against it, i mean just in Greensboro there is like 7 universities. and wow, just looked at the returns in Guilford

For: 50.03% 58,520
Against: 49.97% 58,448

[rufuspaul]

Pattern is that it's mostly the college towns areas and bigger cities?


Yes

[rufuspaul]

I can't believe Guilford County didn't vote against it, i mean just in Greensboro there is like 7 universities. and wow, just looked at the returns in Guilford

For: 50.03% 58,520
Against: 49.97% 58,448

Wow, just 28 votes.

[DonDadda59]

Bunch of idiots; just let the south burn.

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/thisdayintech/2010/11/gen_sherman_250x.jpg

"Say When"

[CelticBaller]

Down south nighas are real

[fiddy]

glad to see some rational people at last

[bagelred]

Ever wonder WHY conservatives are against gay marriage, abortion, etc?


It's FEAR. Fear is the prevailing emotion that dominates conservatives. Fear of foreigners, fear of change, fear of death by terrorism, fear of free thinking, fear of the unknown, fear of progress, fear of straying from God,........fear is the emotion that grips them. The fear centers of conservatives brains are bigger than those of liberals. Liberals simply don't fear the things conservatives do, and thus are guided more by rational, progressive thinking. Our brains allow us to do that.

There are good articles on the subject. But I sort of understand WHY conservatives think that way. It's not hate, per se. It's FEAR.

[LJJ]

Ever wonder WHY conservatives are against gay marriage, abortion, etc?


It's FEAR. Fear is the prevailing emotion that dominates conservatives. Fear of foreigners, fear of change, fear of death by terrorism, fear of free thinking, fear of the unknown, fear of progress, fear of straying from God,........fear is the emotion that grips them. The fear centers of conservatives brains are bigger than those of liberals. Liberals simply don't fear the things conservatives do, and thus are guided more by rational, progressive thinking. Our brains allow us to do that.

There are good articles on the subject. But I sort of understand WHY conservatives think that way. It's not hate, per se. It's FEAR.

Fear




http://i.imgur.com/R30pk.gif





leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to...suffering.

[bagelred]

Fear

http://i.imgur.com/R30pk.gif

leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to...suffering.

All Yoda know. :bowdown:

[mlh1981]

At least you guys have the Bobcats.

[rawimpact]

I'm glad they voted against gay marriage. I am not for it at all... and i do not want it to be taught as acceptable in schools either.

[Quizno]

I'm glad they voted against gay marriage. I am not for it at all... and i do not want it to be taught as acceptable in schools either.
why?

[Timmeh]

Rufus, I don't know why you're surprised.

I know the western part of the state is a bit more liberal but, have you been to ENC? They'll bury you in Bibles if you're gay over here.

And really, who cares whether gays can get married or not? They'll just go somewhere else and get married. Its no big deal.

[rawimpact]

why?

As an individual within the same species i understand that (biological) fitness and survivability is a measure to determine success. Many say individuals becoming married has no effect on others, but it does. We may not be the same person, but we are classified as the same in many categories, Californian, American, Western etc. And lastly, i do not believe individuals are born gay, i believe it's causal from upbringing and therefore do not want it being taught as acceptable in schools. That said, I feel that many of the rights many attain post-marriage should be accessible to those who meet a certain age and classify themselves as gay.

[GOAT24]

NC resident this some bullshit mane, this and the child porn law in NY and muthafukkin weed still illegal.:coleman:

[Nanners]

As an individual within the same species i understand that (biological) fitness and survivability is a measure to determine success. Many say individuals becoming married has no effect on others, but it does. We may not be the same person, but we are classified as the same in many categories, Californian, American, Western etc. And lastly, i do not believe individuals are born gay, i believe it's causal from upbringing and therefore do not want it being taught as acceptable in schools. That said, I feel that many of the rights many attain post-marriage should be accessible to those who meet a certain age and classify themselves as gay.

the biological fitness argument is garbage. in case you didnt notice, the way human civilization is structured, biological fitness pretty much goes out the window (you tell me, who is reproducing the most these days?).

what about the millions straight adults who just decide to never have a child? they have the same biological fitness as a homosexual, do they not?

[johndeeregreen]

Just say you think they're gross and call it a day.
I know you're kidding but this is a really good point, actually, because I think that this is really the core belief that's hiding behind a lot of the so-called 'arguments' against gay marriage.

As for me, I think homosexuality is ****ing disgusting and wrong. So there it is; that's what I think of it on a personal level. I'm not going to try to hide behind other rationalizations. I just don't like it, I don't like the thought of it, I like absolutely nothing about it whatsoever.

That said, I don't hate gay people, I don't give a shit if they get married, and I'm appalled that the lawmakers of any country seem to think that it's an issue worth discussing, never mind wasting time and taxpayer dollars legislating on. It's such a joke. They pick hot button issues that people feel strongly about and pander to them, whether they actually matter or not.

[johndeeregreen]

What about lesbian/bisexual girls?
I'll be honest on this one. I don't find it to be disgusting at all. Probably because I'm a guy.

But let me put it this way: if my daughter munched rug, I would be just as horrified and disgusted as if my son took it in the ass.

That's actually another really good point made in this thread, and another question I can guarantee 99% of guys who think homosexuality is disgusting and wrong lie about.

[Nanners]

I know you're kidding but this is a really good point, actually, because I think that this is really the core belief that's hiding behind a lot of the so-called 'arguments' against gay marriage.

As for me, I think homosexuality is ****ing disgusting and wrong. So there it is; that's what I think of it on a personal level. I'm not going to try to hide behind other rationalizations. I just don't like it, I don't like the thought of it, I like absolutely nothing about it whatsoever.

That said, I don't hate gay people, I don't give a shit if they get married, and I'm appalled that the lawmakers of any country seem to think that it's an issue worth discussing, never mind wasting time and taxpayer dollars legislating on. It's such a joke. They pick hot button issues that people feel strongly about and pander to them, whether they actually matter or not.

thanks for the honest response. lately i have noticed that you and i barely see eye to eye on any topic, but i can agree with just about everything in this post (gays dont disgust me, but other than that...)

this is a pointless hot button issue that in the grand scheme of things means nothing. like you said, the main reason people oppose homosexuality is they think it is gross. other than the fact that it is "disgusting", and it insults their morals or whatever, gays getting married has literally zero effect on people. the thing is, just because something is gross, doesnt mean you should be trying to pass a law against it. i think fat bitches are disgusting, but you dont see me trying to legislate the weight of women.

[rufuspaul]

Rufus, I don't know why you're surprised.

I know the western part of the state is a bit more liberal but, have you been to ENC? They'll bury you in Bibles if you're gay over here.

And really, who cares whether gays can get married or not? They'll just go somewhere else and get married. Its no big deal.


2 reasons it's a big deal:

1. If a state legislative body is allowed to modify the state constitution in order to discriminate against a minority group, regardless of how the majority of citizens feel about the matter, you set a very dangerous precedent. You say that gays can just go to another state to get married. Is that what we want, free states vs. restrictive states? Didn't we fight a war over such a division a while back?

2. The wording of the amendment means that partnerships, straight and gay, that aren't sanctified by marriage are not recognized as having any legal status in the state.

[rufuspaul]

Christians shouldn't worry anyway. If being gay is that horrible they won't 'get into heaven', so you don't have to worry about them where you'll be spending FOREVER.

Who wants to go to that heaven? The music, clothes, food, landscaping and interior design would be terrible. :oldlol:

[blablabla]

I'm glad they voted against gay marriage. I am not for it at all... and i do not want it to be taught as acceptable in schools either.
kids nowadays spend more time with the internet and the tv than in school anyway
and gays are all over the media so if you are really worried about your kids don't let them watch modern family
also at least in bigger cities there are gay couples everywhere, there are gay nightclubs gays kissing in the park gays having dates restuarants etc.
gays are accepted by most people gay marriage won't change shit and
no matter how hard you try to protect your kid from that if he wants to suck cvck he'll suck cvck
human rights fvck yeah

[rufuspaul]

kids nowadays spend more time with the internet and the tv than in school anyway
and gays are all over the media so if you are really worried about your kids don't let them watch modern family
also at least in bigger cities there are gay couples everywhere, there are gay nightclubs gays kissing in the park gays having dates restuarants etc.
gays are accepted by most people gay marriage won't change shit and
no matter how hard you try to protect your kid from that if he wants to suck cvck he'll suck cvck
human rights fvck yeah


People like rawimpact and JDG are almost guaranteed to have at least one gay kid. :D

[rufuspaul]

Kind of how I feel right now.


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/redneck.jpg

[-p.tiddy-]

because I think that this is really the core belief that's hiding behind a lot of the so-called 'arguments' against gay marriage.


No, it's not about "being gross"...it's about the lawmakers being old Christians who are actually very frightened that they will go to hell if they vote in favor of this.

Marraige is seen as a religious ceremony...preformed under God's eye...in a church in most cases.

This has everything to do with Jesus and them thinking homosexuality is an abomination, it's not about being gross




I also think that this is meaningless stupid topic (rufus you shouldn't have labeled your whole state over this) but what is interesting in this debate to me is that I also believe in freedom of religion...so when lawmakers start to declare that gays are alowed to marry in churches, you are taking away their religious rights/freedom. If Christians don't want gay people in thier church getting hitched then they should have that right, it is thier church, let them have it.

[rufuspaul]

I also think that this is meaningless stupid topic (rufus you shouldn't have labeled your whole state over this) but what is interesting in this debate to me is that I also believe in freedom of religion...so when lawmakers start to declare that gays are alowed to marry in churches, you are taking away their religious rights/freedom. If Christians don't want gay people in thier church getting hitched then they should have that right, it is thier church, let them have it.

Certainly. But to write it into the constitution defies separation of church and state. Look at it this way: when a person takes office he/she swears on the bible to uphold the constitution, not the other way around.

[Nanners]

No, it's not about "being gross"...it's about the lawmakers being old Christians who are actually very frightened that they will go to hell if they vote in favor of this.



i think this is complete nonsense. lawmakers make decisions that contradict the bible every day, for some reason its only gay marriage that bothers them.

[-p.tiddy-]

i think this is complete nonsense. lawmakers make decisions that contradict the bible every day, for some reason its only gay marriage that bothers them.
okay well I disagree...I think without the Bible this is a non-issue

I think the Bible has much more influence here than it being "gross"

[Nanners]

okay well I disagree...I think without the Bible this is a non-issue

I think the Bible has much more influence here than it being "gross"

then why arent lawmakers trying to legislate against fat people (gluttony), or greed, or adultry, or lust or any of the other countless aspects of american society that clearly contradict the bibles teachings? if "christian" lawmakers dont give a shit about the 7 deadly sins, i dont see why they would care about what the bible has to say on homos. hell, according to the bible eating shellfish is just as bad as homosexuality, i bet those lawmakers eat at red lobster tho.

also, 50% of marriage ends in divorce, which is just as much of a sin as homosexuality. "sanctity" of marriage my ass... why arent lawmakers giving shit to kim k and kris humph about the sanctity of marriage?

[-p.tiddy-]

then why arent lawmakers trying to legislate against fat people (gluttony), or greed, or adultry, or lust or any of the other countless aspects of american society that clearly contradict the bibles teachings? if "christian" lawmakers dont give a shit about the 7 deadly sins, i dont see why they would care about what the bible has to say on homos. hell, according to the bible eating shellfish is just as bad as homosexuality, i bet those lawmakers eat at red lobster tho.
first of all having gay sex is NOT illegal...

and if being fat or adultry took place in a church and affected your taxes then maybe they would...

Marraige is something they can regulate with ease...those other things are not at all...how could they possibly regulate lust or greed?

[DeuceWallaces]

Pretty easy to legislate greed, gluttony, and adultery.

[Dasher]

Neither Black Democrats or Blacks in general have the voting powering to pass Amendment One. The backlash Blacks are receiving is looking a lot like The Prop 8 backlash, and Gays and their allies always seem to fall over themselves to feed into it. This isn't just a Southern issue either. 2/3s of The States in the country have restricted or are going to restrict Civil Unions for same-sex couples.

[Nanners]

first of all having gay sex is NOT illegal...

and if being fat or adultry took place in a church and affected your taxes then maybe they would...

Marraige is something they can regulate with ease...those other things are not at all...how could they possibly regulate lust or greed?

when did i say having gay sex was illegal? you can easily legislate the 7 deadly sins, for example: lust. have you ever heard of the porn industry? ever been to a strip club? the entire sex industry is founded on lust. if you want to legislate against lust, outlaw porn, strip clubs and other sex industry products.


and what about divorce? you say they can regulate marriage with ease, so why dont they outlaw divorce considering it is just as much of a sin as homosexuality?

[-p.tiddy-]

when did i say having gay sex was illegal? you can easily legislate against the 7 deadly sins, for example: lust. have you ever heard of the porn industry? ever been to a strip club? the entire sex industry is founded on lust. if you want to legislate against lust, outlaw porn, strip clubs and other sex industry products.
those things still don't take place in a church...or affect taxes

I also bet that most of that stuff is infact illegal in N. Carolina...at least out side of the major cities (or city)...but I really have no idea, that is just a guess.

[-p.tiddy-]

and what about divorce? you say they can regulate marriage with ease, so why dont they outlaw divorce considering it is just as much of a sin as homosexuality?
because they can't force people to stay together, that isn't possible...they can't even force gay people to stay apart, not do they even try...they are just keeping them from tying the knot in a church.

[Nanners]

those things still don't take place in a church...or affect taxes

I also bet that most of that stuff is infact illegal in N. Carolina...at least out side of the major cities (or city)...but I really have no idea, that is just a guess.


you didnt answer my question as it pertains to your original argument. if lawmakers are trying to prevent homo marriage because they are worried about going to hell (you remember your original argument right?), why arent they worried about going to hell over all of the other (worse) sins that happen right under their noses thanks to the laws they are passing?

as far as i am concerned, it should be up to the individual church to decide whether or not gays can get married inside. if one church is really offended, so be it, you own your church and you can decide who gets married under its roof. i know for a fact that some churches dont give a crap about whether someone is homo or straight.

[-p.tiddy-]

you didnt answer my question as it pertains to your original argument. if lawmakers are trying to prevent homo marriage because they are worried about going to hell, why arent they worried about going to hell over all of the other (worse) sins that happen right under their noses thanks to the laws they are passing?

as far as i am concerned, it should be up to the individual church to decide whether or not gays can get married inside. if one church is really offended, so be it, you own your church and you can decide who gets married under its roof. i know for a fact that some churches dont give a crap about homos.
I am sure many are :confusedshrug: ...like I said I bet strip clubs and porn filming is outlawed in most of N. Carolina (my guess)

it isn't like there aren't lawmakers fighting to get rid or limit pornography...

[-p.tiddy-]

and I am not sure why you are saying some sins are worse than others...are they ranked in the Bible?

[Nanners]

and I am not sure why you are saying some sins are worse than others...are they ranked in the Bible?

yeah my understanding is that there are different tiers of sins and the 7 deadlies are the worst ones, i may be wrong on that though.

[rufuspaul]

I am sure many are :confusedshrug: ...like I said I bet strip clubs and porn filming is outlawed in most of N. Carolina (my guess)

it isn't like there aren't lawmakers fighting to get rid or limit pornography...


There are strip clubs all over the state, even out in the sticks. There's a long history of anti-porn legislation ending up in the courts. For the most part the courts have determined that legislating morality is a slippery slope and if it comes down to being religiously moral at the price of infringing on someone's constitutional freedoms the courts almost always come down on the side of the constitution.

Remember this amendment defines marriage (religious rite) between 1 man and 1 woman as the only legally recognized union in the state. That places religion directly in the state constitution and affects every state citizen, gay or straight.

[rawimpact]

You want being gay to be taught in schools as unacceptable? News flash, nobody teaches 'gay' in school.

You don't like gay people because they can't have kids? We're overpopulated as it is, that's a plus.

Did i say i don't like gay people? I dislike their sexual orientation, not them as a person

People aren't born gay? I guess that means there are no gay people, so why is this an issue?

Show me primary evidence stating that homosexuality is genetic.

You want a teacher or a parent to say, "You can be anything you want." Only to have the kid say, "Okay, then I'd like to be gay." Then the person responds, "Well, you can't be that." So we have no real freedom to be what we want.

No, i wouldn't want it that way either. If the child responds that he/she wants to be gay, so be it. don't encourage it as acceptable. And the whole you can be whatever you want arguement is not true anyways.

Cool, so according to you there are no gay people... Yet you want teachers to tell kids that being gay is gross, while telling them they can be whatever they want, except be gay.
What? If i thought there were no gay people why would i bother responding to this thread? :facepalm

Sounds like you're afraid of gay people to me. Just say you think they're gross and call it a day.
Afraid of gay people? LOL... personal attacks are the worst form of argument.


I don't know why I bothered replying to such an assumptive response...

[rawimpact]

kids nowadays spend more time with the internet and the tv than in school anyway
and gays are all over the media so if you are really worried about your kids don't let them watch modern family
also at least in bigger cities there are gay couples everywhere, there are gay nightclubs gays kissing in the park gays having dates restuarants etc.
gays are accepted by most people gay marriage won't change shit and
no matter how hard you try to protect your kid from that if he wants to suck cvck he'll suck cvck
human rights fvck yeah

Just because something is negative doesn't mean one can't witness it. Shootings/murder etc. are all negative to society, does it mean we can't see it on television? As long as they acknowledge the difference of what's acceptable and what isn't I'm fine with it. Also, don't spew "facts" without having citations, it's childish.

[brantonli]

Quite frankly I don't know why some people are so against gay marriage. It's going to pass eventually, so you better start buying up shares on wedding businesses, because the marriage business will definitely increase once the gays enter the market.


If it's any consolation, just think this, gay marriage = $$$$$



No, i wouldn't want it that way either. If the child responds that he/she wants to be gay, so be it. don't encourage it as acceptable. And the whole you can be whatever you want arguement is not true anyways.

I myself am bi, and I'm really want to clarify this part. What exactly do you mean 'don't encourage it to be acceptable'? Do you mean if a kid/teen says 'I'm gay' then you go 'Whatever'?

[rawimpact]

the biological fitness argument is garbage. in case you didnt notice, the way human civilization is structured, biological fitness pretty much goes out the window (you tell me, who is reproducing the most these days?).

what about the millions straight adults who just decide to never have a child? they have the same biological fitness as a homosexual, do they not?

Humans are not the only species that is highly organized... and as far as individuals who choose not to have offspring, i'm against it. Now I can't force them to have children, i can only do as I believe.

[rawimpact]

I know you're kidding but this is a really good point, actually, because I think that this is really the core belief that's hiding behind a lot of the so-called 'arguments' against gay marriage.

As for me, I think homosexuality is ****ing disgusting and wrong. So there it is; that's what I think of it on a personal level. I'm not going to try to hide behind other rationalizations. I just don't like it, I don't like the thought of it, I like absolutely nothing about it whatsoever.

That said, I don't hate gay people, I don't give a shit if they get married, and I'm appalled that the lawmakers of any country seem to think that it's an issue worth discussing, never mind wasting time and taxpayer dollars legislating on. It's such a joke. They pick hot button issues that people feel strongly about and pander to them, whether they actually matter or not.

Good point that needs constant reminder. Just because one dislikes homosexual orientation does not mean they dislike them as a person. There is a difference... and personality/character is more then that.

[rawimpact]

Quite frankly I don't know why some people are so against gay marriage. It's going to pass eventually, so you better start buying up shares on wedding businesses, because the marriage business will definitely increase once the gays enter the market.


If it's any consolation, just think this, gay marriage = $$$$$




I myself am bi, and I'm really want to clarify this part. What exactly do you mean 'don't encourage it to be acceptable'? Do you mean if a kid/teen says 'I'm gay' then you go 'Whatever'?


Just like religion i do not believe sexual orientation belongs in the classroom. That goes for both heterosexuals, homosexuals and those in between. The only information in public school that should be taught related to the subject is anatomy, physiology and safe sex education, all of which stays away from personal sexual orientation.

[Myth]

It's very well tied in with the government. Married couples can get a tax deduction that isn't applicable to unmarried couples. It's one of the big reasons as to why some gay people want to get married.

I'm with fos on this one. Keep domestic partnership laws that are equal for everybody, then have marriages be a church thing only. Individual churches can decide what types of marriages they will support.

[brantonli]

Just like religion i do not believe sexual orientation belongs in the classroom. That goes for both heterosexuals, homosexuals and those in between. The only information in public school that should be taught related to the subject is anatomy, physiology and safe sex education, all of which stays away from personal sexual orientation.

Really? I thought you said this?


And lastly, i do not believe individuals are born gay, i believe it's causal from upbringing and therefore do not want it being taught as acceptable in schools. That said, I feel that many of the rights many attain post-marriage should be accessible to those who meet a certain age and classify themselves as gay.

Your point is perfectly fine about sexual orientation being kept out of the classroom in terms of subjects taught, but it seems from your previous post, you imply it's more that you don't want kids to be exposed to the possibility of homosexuality within a school and therefore being influenced by the idea, rather than as a matter of principle that all orientations should be kept out of schools.

Although let's be honest. Even if you can control school curriculum, you can't control what kids at school do nor what they see on the internet, so it might well be that all our posts here about keeping sexual orientation out of schools is moot, because it's available online (or even at school) anyway lol.

[boozehound]

Interesting article about the history of same-sex unions in christian history (http://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html)

[rawimpact]

Really? I thought you said this?



Your point is perfectly fine about sexual orientation being kept out of the classroom in terms of subjects taught, but it seems from your previous post, you imply it's more that you don't want kids to be exposed to the possibility of homosexuality within a school and therefore being influenced by the idea, rather than as a matter of principle that all orientations should be kept out of schools.

Although let's be honest. Even if you can control school curriculum, you can't control what kids at school do nor what they see on the internet, so it might well be that all our posts here about keeping sexual orientation out of schools is moot, because it's available online (or even at school) anyway lol.

Bottom line is i don't want the school having the say in what orientation is acceptable or not acceptable. I would rather leave that up to the parents... yes the internet is of access to kids, but that is a factor that a parent should be able to control whereas school curriculum is much more difficult to monitor/change without outcasting the child.

[rufuspaul]

Just because something is negative doesn't mean one can't witness it. Shootings/murder etc. are all negative to society, does it mean we can't see it on television? As long as they acknowledge the difference of what's acceptable and what isn't I'm fine with it. Also, don't spew "facts" without having citations, it's childish.


How did people become gay before the internet, television, mass media?

[rufuspaul]

Interesting article about the history of same-sex unions in christian history (http://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html)


Wow.

[rufuspaul]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/414027/may-09-2012/barack-obama-vs--north-carolina-on-gay-marriage


:oldlol:

[blablabla]

Just because something is negative doesn't mean one can't witness it. Shootings/murder etc. are all negative to society, does it mean we can't see it on television? As long as they acknowledge the difference of what's acceptable and what isn't I'm fine with it. Also, don't spew "facts" without having citations, it's childish. shootings and murders on tv are viewed as negative you see criminals getting locked up/shoot etc.
but gay couples on tv are seen as normal, children won't see anything wrong with it

[Nanners]

its funny how americans are so obsessed with homosexuality. when you ask americans what percentage of the population they think is homosexual, the most common answer is around 25%. when you ask americans whether or not they consider themselves to be homosexual, its about 2% of each sex.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx

americans think 1/4 of all people are gay, but in reality only 1/50 people consider themselves to be gay. apply those ratios to the entire population and americans assume there are like 80million homosexuals in america when really there are around 6 million.

edit: also consider the uneven distribution of gays in large coastal cities like san francisco and nyc. these cities have large gay populations and higher ratios of gay:straight, so out in the redneck parts of NC the ratio is probably like 1/100 or 1/200 people, but the rednecks still think the ratio out there is 1/4.

[-p.tiddy-]

when you ask americans whether or not they consider themselves to be homosexual, its about 2% of each sex for a total of ~4%.


2% of each sex is still 2% total

and at least 25% of Americans know that...;)

[Nanners]

2% of each sex is still 2% total

and at least 25% of Americans know that...;)

lol, thanks for catching that. so actually at 2% that means that ~1/50 say they are homosexual instead of 1/20. i fixed my post so the numbers would make sense.

[johndeeregreen]

People like rawimpact and JDG are almost guaranteed to have at least one gay kid. :D
I've been honest in this entire thread, so I'll continue to do so: That would be absolutely devastating for me as a parent. But at the same time, I would rather my kid was gay than a liar, deceitful, rude, obnoxious, a drug addict, etc. (the list goes on). I don't want this to read as if the ONLY thing that would disappoint me as a father is my kid being gay.

And honestly, if my gay child behaved like a normal person (ie not a flaming homo or my butch daughter pretending she has a *****), I definitely would have an easier time dealing with it.

[-p.tiddy-]

I've been honest in this entire thread, so I'll continue to do so: That would be absolutely devastating for me as a parent. But at the same time, I would rather my kid was gay than a liar, deceitful, rude, obnoxious, a drug addict, etc. (the list goes on). I don't want this to read as if the ONLY thing that would disappoint me as a father is my kid being gay.
IDK man...rude/obnoxious/liar etc is pretty common and can be fixed :lol

[johndeeregreen]

IDK man...rude/obnoxious/liar etc is pretty common and can be fixed :lol
I don't mean slightly rude, occasionally obnoxious, and white lies. And I'm talking about it as if it's a trait that I can't control or teach. I can't 'teach' my son/daughter heterosexuality. I can't make them bang members of the opposite sex. So that's what I'm saying, if I HAD to choose between my son/daughter either being a homosexual or being a loud, disrespectful liar, it would be an easy decision for me. If you're dishonest, use people, have no conscience, etc. that means you're a shitty human being. Being gay doesn't make you a shitty human being.

[Timmeh]

2 reasons it's a big deal:

1. If a state legislative body is allowed to modify the state constitution in order to discriminate against a minority group, regardless of how the majority of citizens feel about the matter, you set a very dangerous precedent. You say that gays can just go to another state to get married. Is that what we want, free states vs. restrictive states? Didn't we fight a war over such a division a while back?

2. The wording of the amendment means that partnerships, straight and gay, that aren't sanctified by marriage are not recognized as having any legal status in the state.

I feel like we've been heading back in that direction anyway. How long have we been hearing rumors about places like California, Texas and Vermont seceding because they want to do things the federal government won't let them do?

America has been raising their kids to believe they can get whatever they want. What's the reaction when your mom tells you no? You go to daddy. Guess what? NC said no, so the gays can go somewhere else that says yes. Whether you think that's bad or not, it doesn't matter. People are going to get what they want no matter what.

Look, I'm on your side. Gays getting married isn't going to affect my life at all, but this state is run by the church, more or less. They get away with it because their congregations either didn't graduate high school or barely got past it, so they lack the desire and ability to think for themselves and choose to let their pastor, who they believe is well-educated and knows everything.

And yeah, the wording of this amendment was the most cleverly worded piece of legislation that I've ever seen. It encompassed more than gay marriage, it also said that children of divorced parents didn't have to be covered by health insurance of the non-custody-having parent, and that unmarried couples living together couldn't file restraining orders in cases of domestic violence. But the church saw that this would allow gay marriage and EVERYTHING got thrown out the window and the congregations got brainwashed into thinking this was solely on gay marriage.

This is our world. If it sucks to you, just move to South Carolina.

[rawimpact]

How did people become gay before the internet, television, mass media?

Like i've stated, i do not believe people are born gay, it has to do with the upbringing. In today's world social media influences play a larger role and for a child, those are factors that are controllable by the guardian. As for the past, when I was in elementary (1st to 6th grade) computers were not "big" and so there were more physical social interactions such as sports or other outdoor activities. I recall there being a gay boy in my year and guess what, he hung around females. Now i don't know whether or not that was because he was gay at that point and related more to them or maybe he was straight but the females had a large influence on him and he uptook their point of view and eventually become a homosexual. Point being there are other influences outside social media as well, we've just spread them out thinner.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Like i've stated, i do not believe people are born gay, it has to do with the upbringing. In today's world social media influences play a larger role and for a child, those are factors that are controllable by the guardian. As for the past, when I was in elementary (1st to 6th grade) computers were not "big" and so there were more physical social interactions such as sports or other outdoor activities. I recall there being a gay boy in my year and guess what, he hung around females. Now i don't know whether or not that was because he was gay at that point and related more to them or maybe he was straight but the females had a large influence on him and he uptook their point of view and eventually become a homosexual. Point being there are other influences outside social media as well, we've just spread them out thinner.


Alongside that note aside from feminine influence, I heard that youngest a large line of brothers statistically tend to be gay. Could it be they eroticize those who they look up to/admire?

I wanna dwelve deeper into the nurturing aspect of it.

[rufuspaul]

Like i've stated, i do not believe people are born gay, it has to do with the upbringing. In today's world social media influences play a larger role and for a child, those are factors that are controllable by the guardian. As for the past, when I was in elementary (1st to 6th grade) computers were not "big" and so there were more physical social interactions such as sports or other outdoor activities. I recall there being a gay boy in my year and guess what, he hung around females. Now i don't know whether or not that was because he was gay at that point and related more to them or maybe he was straight but the females had a large influence on him and he uptook their point of view and eventually become a homosexual. Point being there are other influences outside social media as well, we've just spread them out thinner.

Congratufukkinlations! That is the single, most misogynist, homophobic, racist and dumbest post I've ever read on this board. You should be proud. Plus you failed to answer my question as to how gay people existed before there was a liberal gay mass media designed to turn them gay.

[rufuspaul]

I've been honest in this entire thread, so I'll continue to do so: That would be absolutely devastating for me as a parent. But at the same time, I would rather my kid was gay than a liar, deceitful, rude, obnoxious, a drug addict, etc. (the list goes on). I don't want this to read as if the ONLY thing that would disappoint me as a father is my kid being gay.

And honestly, if my gay child behaved like a normal person (ie not a flaming homo or my butch daughter pretending she has a *****), I definitely would have an easier time dealing with it.

My older sister is gay and I was surprised at how easily my dad (old military guy) was accepting of it. It's all personal. Every family at least has a gay cousin somewhere. We either deal with it head on or we ignore it.

My sister and her partner of almost 20 years are doing very well. They bank in the high 6 figures and have 3 wonderful adopted children. They are a better, more loving and well adjusted family than most of the God fearing traditional ones I know.

[Upgrayedd]

I'd love to live in North Carolina just because it looks like such a beautiful place to live. But yeah this was pathetic.

[rufuspaul]

Look, I'm on your side. Gays getting married isn't going to affect my life at all, but this state is run by the church

But should it be? Didn't the Pilgrims move here because of religious persecution? Isn't freedom of religion a basic right, guaranteed by the constitution? Isn't the separation of church and state a fundamental American right that ensures not only freedom to practice whatever religion you choose, but also protects you from having a religion forced upon you (i.e. Sharia law) by the government?

[rufuspaul]

I've been honest in this entire thread, so I'll continue to do so: That would be absolutely devastating for me as a parent. But at the same time, I would rather my kid was gay than a liar, deceitful, rude, obnoxious, a drug addict, etc. (the list goes on). I don't want this to read as if the ONLY thing that would disappoint me as a father is my kid being gay.

And honestly, if my gay child behaved like a normal person (ie not a flaming homo or my butch daughter pretending she has a *****), I definitely would have an easier time dealing with it.

i think we all would . In the end I think we all just wish the best for our children, that they are safe and happy. I would hope that we accept them for who they are.

[rufuspaul]

I'd love to live in North Carolina just because it looks like such a beautiful place to live. But yeah this was pathetic.

It's a great state. I'm glad the 2 places I own property are in counties that voted against this amendment.

[rufuspaul]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/gaymarriage.jpg

[GatorKid117]

Like i've stated, i do not believe people are born gay, it has to do with the upbringing. In today's world social media influences play a larger role and for a child, those are factors that are controllable by the guardian. As for the past, when I was in elementary (1st to 6th grade) computers were not "big" and so there were more physical social interactions such as sports or other outdoor activities. I recall there being a gay boy in my year and guess what, he hung around females. Now i don't know whether or not that was because he was gay at that point and related more to them or maybe he was straight but the females had a large influence on him and he uptook their point of view and eventually become a homosexual. Point being there are other influences outside social media as well, we've just spread them out thinner.


:roll:

I found this unintentionally hilarious.

Boys, stay away from girls, they make you gay!

[rawimpact]

:roll:

I found this unintentionally hilarious.

Boys, stay away from girls, they make you gay!

Well in fourth grade there really wasn't much intermingling between the sexes. Males played the sports and the females played hopscotch or made necklaces out of dandelions. Life was simpler back then... When you see a guy joining the girls in weaving these necklaces one starts to wonder.

[niko]

i've taught children and very young you can see some have gender confusion. I've seen gay kids 12/13 right after they start getting interesting in those things. I hardly think it's a result of them being conditioned somehow to be gay. There is a huge stigma, they are confused, unhappy and if you gave them the choice at that point to be not gay, they would in a second, because no body wants to be the different ostracized person.

Gay is not a choice.

[rawimpact]

i've taught children and very young you can see some have gender confusion. I've seen gay kids 12/13 right after they start getting interesting in those things. I hardly think it's a result of them being conditioned somehow to be gay. There is a huge stigma, they are confused, unhappy and if you gave them the choice at that point to be not gay, they would in a second, because no body wants to be the different ostracized person.

Gay is not a choice.

Who's saying gay is a choice?

[niko]

Who's saying gay is a choice?
I mean it's not a learned behavior. At least from what i have seen.

[-p.tiddy-]

yeah I can remember a kid from elementary school that everyone just understood he was born gay...he was extremely feminine...preferred girl's toys to toy guns, etc

I know for fact at least SOME gay people are born gay...not sure about all of them though, perhaps for others it was aquired somehow

[Dolphin]

yeah I can remember a kid from elementary school that everyone just understood he was born gay...he was extremely feminine...preferred girl's toys to toy guns, etc

I know for fact at least SOME gay people are born gay...not sure about all of them though, perhaps for others it was aquired somehow

You don't acquire the taste of *** like it's beer.

[Dolphin]

All gay people are born gay. I was just listening to a gay comedian's interview a few days ago and he said when he was 3 he went apeshit over seeing a nude boy Hummel figurine. Every gay guy my mom worked with in restaurants said they knew from that age too...

BUT then there are people that become gay due to molestation, trauma and all of that shit. Like a girl who gets molested by her uncle and then a fear exists in her so deeply that she can never be around men. Then obviously, you can't be around men, be around a woman.

In my opinion *totally not backed by scientific data whatsoever* a solid 10% of people that claim to be gay are actually not, but through trauma they've begun to live that life and identify with it.

In my opinion you do not have any basis to say that even if you admit you're opinion is not backed by scientific data....I mean really, how could you possibly come to an unscientific conclusion that 10% of gays are gay because they were molested? lol

[-p.tiddy-]

^^^ I know a girl that was raped during her high school years and went lesbian for a few years after that.

She is now dating a man though, at heart she was never gay, but the experience made her hate men.

[Dolphin]

So I'm not allowed to say something but in the post above mine you said straight people can't start liking the same sex?

I've met some gay people like that. That nash4eva poster had a trauma and became a lesbian, and at least 2 girls from back in my high school did the same. Plus I've heard that many other places.

I just picked a random, small, yet significant percentage to throw onto that. It's probably smaller like 3-5% but there are plenty of people like that.




Over 90% of reported sex crimes are done to women, and 99% of the offenders are men. Therefore 'traumatic lesbianism' (possible sweet band name) would be more likely than a traumatic gay guy.

Again, what you are basing your statistic off of is so weak and so minimal that even using a disclaimer that your stat is not scientific does not reduce the silliness of using said stat.

To your point about molestation turning a straight female into a lesbian....you have no proof of this. Someone being molested and being afraid of sexual activities with men or hating men is not the same as being sexual attracted to men and then all of a sudden being exclusively sexually attracted to women.

[niko]

People who are abused as children sometimes have problems with their sexual identity - it causes confusion during their developmental time. That's not a crazy notion.

[rawimpact]

Again, what you are basing your statistic off of is so weak and so minimal that even using a disclaimer that your stat is not scientific does not reduce the silliness of using said stat.

To your point about molestation turning a straight female into a lesbian....you have no proof of this. Someone being molested and being afraid of sexual activities with men or hating men is not the same as being sexual attracted to men and then all of a sudden being exclusively sexually attracted to women.

Don't bother, people here don't know what statistics/facts are.

[Dolphin]

I have the right to make up a stat if I deliberately state that I have no proof. It's not like I passed it off as truth.



You're saying what I said you dumb ass.

- Gay people are born gay.

- There are outliers identify with that community and live a gay lifestyle. So they say they are gay, but weren't born gay. They became gay due to life experiences.

- I have proof since I've met people like that, and I even said the name of a poster on this site who went lesbian for years.

I didn't say "you don't have a right"...I said your stat is silly. lol

And as for the turning gay after being molested thing. It's not the same as being born gay. You can't put a gay person into therapy and change them. If someone was straight and then was molested and thus began having homosexual relations, I'd bet therapy could be used there.