Ok WTF is up with point guards letting the ball roll down court after they inbound it

[Upgrayedd]

I was just watching the Grizzlies/Clippers game and it's not the first time I've seen it but this was ****ing stupid. The guy on the Grizzlies let the ball roll halfway down the ****ing court before he picked it up. I know it's so the clock won't start until he picks it up but would someone from the other team at least try and run up and steal the ball? :wtf:

[AI3Anthony]

Sometimes PG's do it to call a play before the clock starts so they have more time to run the play. Other then that i'm not too sure why they do it.

[Wonder Bread Kid]

Sometimes PG's do it to call a play before the clock starts so they have more time to run the play. Other then that i'm not too sure why they do it.

It's for timing. That's it.

[Rake2204]

As you mentioned yourself, it's a time-saving technique. Letting the ball roll to half court when there's 10 seconds left in the quarter allows for more time to execute and finish, as opposed to a straight inbound pass that may lead to five seconds to work with by the time a guard passes half court.

Oftentimes defenses will apply pressure to disallow the inbound roll. However, just the same, lulling a defensive player into the backcourt could actually lead to an advantage for the offense, so the defense will often concede the extra few seconds saved in exchange for maintaining their planned defensive attack.

[Upgrayedd]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.

[Kblaze8855]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0COm1MfaWM&feature=youtu.be&t=2m2s

[JtotheIzzo]

basketball 101, the clock doesn't start until a player picks it up.

[Rake2204]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.
I think it's because it's a medium-risk, low-reward play. When the ball is rolling inbound, it's not as if the offensive point guard is letting it roll mindlessly down the floor. As such, to suggest the defense attempt to steal the roll is not particularly realistic. At that point, the offensive player would just pick up the ball and operate upon a defense that has suddenly extended itself and subsequently created some gaps by chance.

[TMT]

In a close game seconds are precious. Down the stretch you could be saving yourself 3 to 6 seconds which could be crucial.

[Miserio]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.
If you (as a defender) have kept some distance, you can't run straight to the ball because the point guards in the nba are so fast that they're gonna pass you easily.

[mr beast]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.


if you are going to be guarding CP3 whos doing that trick, i would advise you to stay the F back

[L.Kizzle]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.
Obviously, if the opponent tries to take it, they will pick up the ball before they can get there hands on it ...

[notatop29pg]

if you are going to be guarding CP3 whos doing that trick, i would advise you to stay the F back

Have seen him bait guys into going for the steal many times only to blow by them and hit the pullup 3. Was a common sight in NO.

[RoseCity07]

One of the other clock tricks I think teams with a lead needs to take advantage of is a running clock in the 4th. The clock runs while you take the ball out. If you take it out slowly enough 3-5 seconds can run off that aren't part of your 24.

[OldSchoolBBall]

basketball 101, the clock doesn't start until a player picks it up.

This is true in practice, but I recall hearing that it isn't the case if one looks at the rulebook, and that technically the clock should start when the ball hits the court inbounds. Someone a while back provided the section of the NBA rule book that deals with this.

[Clippersfan86]

Have seen him bait guys into going for the steal many times only to blow by them and hit the pullup 3. Was a common sight in NO.

Yup. Best ballhandler in NBA. He stays low so that if defender goes for ball he can get by them for pull up shot as you said. It's one of the many things that makes his intangibles so much better than any other PG. His clock management skills are insane.

[ihoopallday]

I've always wanted to be a defender in that situation and just dive for the ball :lol

[sick_brah07]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.


you must have never played against high level competetion my man

[KDTrey5]

dumb OP

[ZeN]

dumb OP
Its just typical ConanRulesNBC nonsense

[KG215]

basketball 101, the clock doesn't start until a player picks it up.

Actually, the clock starts when the ball is touched. Obviously, in this scenario, the time difference between a player making first contact with the ball and then picking it up is milliseconds. But it doesn't just start when the ball is picked up.

[Toizumi]

This is true in practice, but I recall hearing that it isn't the case if one looks at the rulebook, and that technically the clock should start when the ball hits the court inbounds. Someone a while back provided the section of the NBA rule book that deals with this.

Gameclock, yes.. not the shotclock


Section II-Starting and Stopping of 24-Second Clock
a. The 24-second clock will start when a team gains new possession of a ball which is in play.
b. On a throw-in, the 24-second clock shall start when the ball is legally touched on the court by a player.

[Noof]

Trying to steal it would be as dumb as running up and trying to rip the ball from their hands. They're just going to pick it up and blow past you.

[Jyap9675]

they should sticky this thread asap.

[Xiao Yao You]

Was a bad rule change. Need to change it back to the clock starting when the ball is inbounded. The rolling of the ball is lame!

[Toizumi]

Was a bad rule change. Need to change it back to the clock starting when the ball is inbounded. The rolling of the ball is lame!

I agree that rolling the ball is a bit lame.. however, starting the clock when the ball in inbounded? This would mean that the persons handling the clock should time the exact moment the ball leaves the inbounders hands, which is a lot tougher than registering the moment the recipient receives the ball. What about last second (or less) alleyoops?
Or do you mean the moment the ball touches the floor? If so, disregard my questions above.:oldlol:

[Euroleague]

The more important question is why the hell does the opposing team not just steal the ball while it is just slowly rolling down the court.

[Euroleague]

If you (as a defender) have kept some distance, you can't run straight to the ball because the point guards in the nba are so fast that they're gonna pass you easily.

Anyone with decent speed can steal that ball. It's just barely rolling there in the middle of the damn court. I bet 8/10 point guards could steal it if they actually tried.

[Euroleague]

you must have never played against high level competetion my man

You must be a dumb ass. These guys are regularly rolling the ball slowly, down the middle of the court. It would be child's play to steal it if someone just actually tried to.

But instead they just stand there and let it roll about 40 feet. Of course it's hard to steal after you let it roll for 20-25 feet.

If you actually dove for it immediately, it would be a steal.


Trying to steal it would be as dumb as running up and trying to rip the ball from their hands. They're just going to pick it up and blow past you.

This is just stupid. If someone actually tried to steal it, within the first 5-10 feet they could. It's only hard to steal because they stand 40 feet away off the ball and let it roll through the whole back court.

Man this forum has some morons in it.

[Fiasco]

Anyone with decent speed can steal that ball. It's just barely rolling there in the middle of the damn court. I bet 8/10 point guards could steal it if they actually tried.

Stick to facts about Arkansas, kid.

[Euroleague]

Stick to facts about Arkansas, kid.

Piss of ******.

[Kblaze8855]

Nah. Ive seen plenty of people reach for it over the years and ive yet to see it stolen. Not in a real game at least. I think maybe someone got to it in a rookie game once....

Its not rolling where its 50/50. The guy letting it roll always stays in position to grab it quickly. Especially since its usually done in close games. Who wants to look like a fool by getting it stolen?

Plus...when its a Paul, Rondo, Barkley, Rose, or someone like that who can make you look like a fool when you are in good position...guys dont want to reach and get put on a highlight. Its usually an end of the clock situation where the other players are gonna stay in place trying to space the floor. You reach...guy gets the ball first and blows by you...hes got a wide open shot or hes got a teammate likely open for 3.

Better to just stand back and play straight up defense. At least if you are playing it safe in a tight game.

[nathanjizzle]

its called not gambling trying to steal the ball. because if you go for it and the guy picks it up and gets past you than you have a 4 on 5 situation.

[Euroleague]

Nah. Ive seen plenty of people reach for it over the years and ive yet to see it stolen. Not in a real game at least. I think maybe someone got to it in a rookie game once....

Its not rolling where its 50/50. The guy letting it roll always stays in position to grab it quickly. Especially since its usually done in close games. Who wants to look like a fool by getting it stolen?

Plus...when its a Paul, Rondo, Barkley, Rose, or someone like that who can make you look like a fool when you are in good position...guys dont want to reach and get put on a highlight. Its usually an end of the clock situation where the other players are gonna stay in place trying to space the floor. You reach...guy gets the ball first and blows by you...hes got a wide open shot or hes got a teammate likely open for 3.

Better to just stand back and play straight up defense. At least if you are playing it safe in a tight game.

The reason they can't steal is because they play 30-40 feet off the ball. All they have to do is run up as soon as they see it rolled in. But that would require an actual logic reasoning center in the brain of the defending team's players.

[ninephive]

And then of course if you're the Celtics at home you can just inbound it to yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiYzjt-rTdk

[demons2005]

I hate to seem like i'm harping on one player but the recent upsurge in this tactic is, like with flopping, because of the Clippers starting PG. For years now he's been doing it to a degree noone has done and for very ambiguous purposes. How can you explain doing this almost every time down the floor some games? To me it's not a "basketball play." It's a way to kill game clock at the expense of actual basketball. If you do it in the middle of a quarter the shotclock stays still but the game clock rolls on. I honestly think he does it so much just to get in the heads of his oponenets. I have seen someone steal it from him once which was awesome.

[Kblaze8855]

I hate to seem like i'm harping on one player

No you dont. And if you did care it would only be because your endless hating makes people disregard your opinion.


but the recent upsurge in this tactic is, like with flopping, because of the Clippers starting PG. For years now he's been doing it to a degree noone has done and for very ambiguous purposes. How can you explain doing this almost every time down the floor some games?

For one...you made that up. Chris paul probably plays 55-70 posessions of offense a game and there is no way in hell hes even approaching doing it a quarter of the time in any game.

And how could it be explained if he did? The shot clock not starting till you are near halfcourt gives you several more seconds to find a good shot. It would make perfect sense to do it every time if you could pull it off. The difference between 13 seconds to run a play and 18-19 is huge. shitty bailout shots would drop a lot.

[Alan]

Euroleague, no-one in their right mind will keep the ball rolling or even attempt it if the defender is close or applying full court pressure. It takes under a second for a player to pick up the ball, but a lot more for the defender to go after it.

[Rake2204]

Gameclock, yes.. not the shotclock
I'd have to see proof suggesting the game clock does not actually begin when the ball is touched because I don't believe that to be true. I've been watching folks roll the ball inbound for a long time, I really feel like at some point at least one official would have said, "Hey, you know, the game clock should start before he touches it, like the rules say." As it is, I don't think that's what the rules state and I think both the shot clock and game clock hold still until its physically touched. Elsewise, what happens on a bounce pass inbound? Teams are punished because the clock begins mid-pass?


Euroleague, no-one in their right mind will keep the ball rolling or even attempt it if the defender is close or applying full court pressure. It takes under a second for a player to pick up the ball, but a lot more for the defender to go after it.
Righto. It's not an arbitrary decision on the part of the ballhandler. Many times, defenses will apply light backcourt pressure. During those moments, the offense knows full well rolling the ball inbound would not be wise. Other times, teams will score and immediately retreat on defense into a half court defensive set. At these moments, rolling the ball becomes a viable option and due to the ease with which the offensive player could simply pick the ball up, it wouldn't make much sense for a defender to rush into the back court at full speed.


The reason they can't steal is because they play 30-40 feet off the ball. All they have to do is run up as soon as they see it rolled in. But that would require an actual logic reasoning center in the brain of the defending team's players.
Considering players only induce the roll-in when a defense has dropped entirely back I must ask, do you believe it's realistic for a defender to sprint nearly half of the floor and steal the ball before the offensive point guard has a chance to notice the defense sprinting at them to pick up the roll? And surely, defenses could always try to full-court pressure opposing teams in hopes of cutting down on roll-ins, but I think everyone recognizes that'd be a ton of extra work for little payoff in a 48-minute NBA basketball game.


Was a bad rule change. Need to change it back to the clock starting when the ball is inbounded. The rolling of the ball is lame!
Again, I must ask, when do you believe this rule was changed? I'm attempting to relent from drawing conclusions, but you seemed to make your statement in a manner suggesting the rule was altered just recently. As long as I've been watching basketball, which isn't insanely long (though it is over 20 years), I've never known the rule to be different. Beginning the clock the moment the ball leaves an inbounder's hands or the moment it first touches the floor would seem so arbitrary and limiting. Again though, starting the clock only when the ball touches a player's hands is not a new concept, not at all.

I'm not sure how this topic went three pages. Interesting to see what I feel to be a relatively simple concept stretched to such a length. To suggest stealing the roll is as simple as sprinting and diving reminds me of my friend in high school who thought he'd solved boxing. We'd explain he was going to get his face just absolutely beat in and he'd say, "Well then I'll just put my hands up here" (covering his face). We'd counter by telling him he was just going to get punched in the stomach over and over again and he'd say, "Well then I'll just put my hands down there." Basically, I feel as though some folks here are similarly oversimplifying the concept at play.

[Kblaze8855]

Are people generally aware that the game clock doesnt stop for made shots till the last minute of the first 3 quarters and last 2 minutes in the 4th and OT?

And when it stops it doesnt start till touched.

[gengiskhan]

I was just watching the Grizzlies/Clippers game and it's not the first time I've seen it but this was ****ing stupid. The guy on the Grizzlies let the ball roll halfway down the ****ing court before he picked it up. I know it's so the clock won't start until he picks it up but would someone from the other team at least try and run up and steal the ball? :wtf:

No full court press. No 90 feet defensive pressure of today's garbage defensive era is responsible for that.

Can you imagine any team rolling the ball till the half court even in reg sea against 90s bulls,pistons,knicks,rockets etc.

[Rake2204]

No full court press. No 90 feet defensive pressure of today's garbage defensive era is responsible for that.

Can you imagine any team rolling the ball till the half court even in reg sea against 90s bulls,pistons,knicks,rockets etc.
I think the rarity of the roll-in back then had more to do with the move itself not being in vogue. I don't think it had to do with the defense. Teams, even the Pistons, did not pressure the length of the floor for all 48 minutes. There still would have been times and places for the roll-in if teams chose to take advantage.

I think it's similar to the Euor-step in the fact that it's something that's always existed in the game of basketball, just it's become more prominent as time has wore on.

[bagelred]

Just read the title. didn't need to read more. Agree. Such stupidity to let ball roll....how much time do you save? a second? The risk of traveling/stolen/etc. is just too great to save a second.

It's like the drivers speeding on the highway. Do they realize they are barely saving any time and risk of a ticket/higher insurance rates/accident/more gas usage/etc. goes up?

Had to bring it back to social commentary. :D

[dunksby]

OP is dumb as spit.

[Scholar]

I love it when casual basketball fans ask questions, such as the OP's, and then go on as though the players don't know what they're doing. :oldlol: Yeah, you're definitely right. You know better than the guy getting paid millions to play the game that you apparently know better.

[Euroleague]

Euroleague, no-one in their right mind will keep the ball rolling or even attempt it if the defender is close or applying full court pressure. It takes under a second for a player to pick up the ball, but a lot more for the defender to go after it.

Yes. So why the hell does the defender stand 40 feet away? Even when they see the clock is running down and they see the point guard positioned to let it roll (it's totally obvious).

[Euroleague]

Considering players only induce the roll-in when a defense has dropped entirely back I must ask, do you believe it's realistic for a defender to sprint nearly half of the floor and steal the ball before the offensive point guard has a chance to notice the defense sprinting at them to pick up the roll? And surely, defenses could always try to full-court pressure opposing teams in hopes of cutting down on roll-ins, but I think everyone recognizes that'd be a ton of extra work for little payoff in a 48-minute NBA basketball game.

All the defense has to do is not drop back 40 feet. I have never once seen anyone that let the ball roll do it without being totally obvious. Everyone on the court knows it is coming BEFORE they do it.

People talk about Paul here doing it - well he is blatant at it. He totally choreographs it. He is always standing back and turning to the side and like side stepping along.

So the reaction should be to move up into the ball handler, not back off by 40 feet.

Anyone that thinks it is not weird how the defenses react to this is not thinking clearly. It's definitely one of the strangest things about the NBA.

[brantonli]

My only complaint about it especially with tonight is that no one on the other team tried to steal it. The ball went halfway down the court and someone could have run up and tried to steal it.

And what if you dive for the ball and miss? The ball handler can pick it up in less than 1 second, you have to cover the whole distance AND pick it up without fouling the other guy. You've just given the opponent a 5 on 4 situation, with quite likely the PG being completely wide open.


^^ Euro, there's a big difference. If you stay on the ball handler (i.e. not dropping back) then you are making yourself more tired every play. Also, it's a very basic instinct to run back up the court after your team has scored, and unless the coach has called a full court or even 3/4 press, you're quite likely to be somewhere at mid court by the time they've inbounded anyway.