What happens to Kobe's legacy if the Lakers lose this series?

[stallionaire]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.Why do you think hes acting like hes dying out there?

[DMAVS41]

Nothing. He's already reached the point in his career where his legacy can only get better. It can't get worse. Everything from here on in is simply "gravy"

Same with Duncan, Kg, and Dirk.

And also, players don't lose a series. Teams do. Unless he was to play just horribly (which hasn't been the case at all...he's been very good)....there is just nothing to talk about.

[skaterbasist]

Nothing. It's on Gasol and Bynum.

Kobe has been the most aggressive option this series.

[longtime lurker]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

LOL will you STFU if the Lakers beat the Nuggets?

[Kblaze8855]

Nobody will care once all the joking is over. People arent even aware of these things long term. Hakeem lost in the first round like 5 years in a row. Not with teammates like Kobe has....but still. Nobody even cares. Oscar missed the playoffs or lost in the first round like 6 years straight and he did it with a HOF teammate on an all nba first team level and an additional all star at times.

And 99.9% of people who know who Oscar is have no idea.

Its not the kinda thing history makes a big deal of.

[gilalizard]

I think his irrational haters get a little more maniacally embittered that no one factors it into his legacy.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Phil Jackson:bowdown: . All these years I thought he was carried by his amazing rosters.

[ClutchOver9000]

i cant believe the Lakers are choking the series away...lol...unbelievable...

[stallionaire]

I'm not even being a hater.

Is this such a difficult question for Lakers fans?

Answer me like a mature adult:

what will happen to his overall image if he goes out like this? simple question really

no reason to get mad.

[Alamo]

It won't change my opinion of him. He's an old man now, and he has pretty much done it all already. Still one of the top 10 players ever to play basketball. His legacy doesn't get worse with a loss, same with Dirk, Duncan, and KG like someone said.

[LeFraud James]

I'm not even being a hater.

Is this such a difficult question for Lakers fans?

Answer me like a mature adult:

what will happen to his overall image if he goes out like this? simple question really

no reason to get mad.

Posting like a prepubescent numbskull who clearly doesn't know much about basketball won't lead to many mature responses, I'll tell you that much.

[PJR]

Solidify his spot as the most overrated player in NBA history. Never mention this fakkit in the same breathe as Jordan.

[tmacattack33]

Nothing. It's on Gasol and Bynum.

Kobe has been the most aggressive option this series.

Yup, 42% FG shooting on 26.6 shots a game is pure genius.

[shaunliv]

can't be as worse as when he and the lakers gave up a 3-1 lead to Phoenix in 2006!

[LeFraud James]

Yup, 42% FG shooting on 26.6 shots a game is pure genius.

Watch the game instead of looking at boxscores dumbass.

Not a single player outside of Kobe is playing with any sort of heart or desire.

Try again.

[YAWN]

if he ends up averaging 35/6/5 like he's on pace to and they lose.. the blame will fall elsewhere.

[Zedja]

Yup, 42% FG shooting on 26.6 shots a game is pure genius.
And what in the world has Bynum and Gasol done for the Lakers this series? OH YEAH! Make Kobe do everything because they are useless. Trade them this offseason. Unmotivated bunch.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

He'll get some LeBron like Backlash from haters, but after years from now, this will all be forgotten. Kobe's legacy is pretty much all set at this point

[stallionaire]

Solidify his spot as the most overrated player in NBA history. Never mention this fakkit in the same breathe as Jordan.

Bingo.

This is the correct answer.

[D.J.]

He has 5 rings. Only way his legacy is negatively affected is if he has a repeat of his sex scandal or something of that nature. And the Lakers did once blow a 3-1 lead, but they were also the underdog in that series to begin with. Even with a second occurrence, 5 rings kind of overshadows that.

[Noob Saibot]

Solidify his spot as the most overrated player in NBA history. Never mention this fakkit in the same breathe as Jordan.

the media will not listen however.

[outbreak]

Nothing happens to his legacy. I'm not a kobe fan at all but he's already firmly established himself as one of the greats and it isn't even open for debate that he will be remembered as a great from the 2000's era. Like others have said anything else for him atm is just gravy on the top of his career.

[stallionaire]

All these retarded idiots "nothing happens to his legacy"

bullshit

all you Kobe stans who think he's 'CHASING 23' will be rudely awakened when you realize your GODBE just got off a sweep last season and a first round exit this year.

all while being heavily favored by your hometown.

it's rich.

[Mr. Jabbar]

in the eyes of pauk, he slips down to the 40-50s in the goat list. in the eyes of a guy capable of using just a part a his brain, nothing much.

[Vienceslav]

can't be as worse as when he and the lakers gave up a 3-1 lead to Phoenix in 2006!
That was 2 seed PHX , no?
This would be worse.

[D.J.]

All these retarded idiots "nothing happens to his legacy"

bullshit

all you Kobe stans who think he's 'CHASING 23' will be rudely awakened when you realize your GODBE just got off a sweep last season and a first round exit this year.

all while being heavily favored by your hometown.

it's rich.


5 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, 1 MVP, and 2 scoring titles. There's nothing he can do on the court that would taint his legacy.

[andgar923]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

Can't blame Kobe if they lose.

He's played well for most of the series. His teammates didn't come through.

[LeFraud James]

All these retarded idiots "nothing happens to his legacy"

bullshit

all you Kobe stans who think he's 'CHASING 23' will be rudely awakened when you realize your GODBE just got off a sweep last season and a first round exit this year.

all while being heavily favored by your hometown.


it's rich.

Better than being a fan of the T'wolves.

You guys will never even sniff a conference Finals appearance.

:roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

It definitely taints his legacy. The sweep last year against a far less talented Mavs team hurt it in the eyes of non-stans, and now losing to a far less talented team (again) in the first round would do some real damage.

[chips93]

Nothing. He's already reached the point in his career where his legacy can only get better. It can't get worse. Everything from here on in is simply "gravy"

Same with Duncan, Kg, and Dirk.

And also, players don't lose a series. Teams do. Unless he was to play just horribly (which hasn't been the case at all...he's been very good)....there is just nothing to talk about.

/thread

[amfirst]

How does it hurt his legacy. When he is playing amazing. No one else is showing up. At least MJ team mates can hit threes, score time to time and rebound against smaller players. Lakers players are not playing with any heart.

[Bladers]

Yup, 42% FG shooting on 26.6 shots a game is pure genius.

It will be around 47% after tonight.

so 31 ppg on 47% with 5 assists and 5 rebs.

What else is he supposed to do?

[Noob Saibot]

If Kobe were to live up to the reputation of "world's best player", the Lakers would not be in this position now with Denver and go into the second round against the Thunder and really challenge them for the western conference title.

[chips93]

If Kobe were to live up to the reputation of "world's best player", the Lakers would not be in this position now with Denver and go into the second round against the Thunder and really challenge them for the western conference title.

i havent heard anybody call him that in a while

even the kobe stans dont

[Noob Saibot]

i havent heard anybody call him that in a while

even the kobe stans dont

^some people still believe that man. the other day i heard a guy at work say we are in STILL Kobe era. Kobe era? That only lasted 2 years at the most.

[Leviathon1121]

Lets face it, his fans really only care about him being better then one other person, and a loss to Denver in the first round, with home court, would not be good for that particular aspect of his legacy.

[LeFraud James]

^some people still believe that man. the other day i heard a guy at work say we are in STILL Kobe era. Kobe era? That only lasted 2 years at the most.

Who's era is it then?

Humor me.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It definitely taints his legacy. The sweep last year against a far less talented Mavs team hurt it in the eyes of non-stans, and now losing to a far less talented team (again) in the first round would do some real damage.

:oldlol:

far less talented Mavs team aka the NBA Champions

[chips93]

^some people still believe that man. the other day i heard a guy at work say we are in STILL Kobe era. Kobe era? That only lasted 2 years at the most.

well guys like that dude at your work, are the kinds of people i dont really pay much attention to

[DMAVS41]

It will be around 47% after tonight.

so 31 ppg on 47% with 5 assists and 5 rebs.

What else is he supposed to do?

Why can't you apply this type of logic to other players though? Would make for a far better forum mate.

[OldSchoolBBall]

:oldlol:

far less talented Mavs team aka the NBA Champions

Yes, a far less talented team that had a Cinderella run and gelled at the right time, led by a superstar who had one of the greatest postseasons ever. Doesn't change the fact that they were far less talented than LA (and way older to boot) and that your boy got swept like a bitch and averaged like 22 ppg/45% FG against 63 year old Jason Kidd. :oldlol:

[chazzy]

The opinions people already have of him after 16 seasons won't change. People who already hate him (like oldschool) will try to push this as a huge deal though.

[RazorBaLade]

What happens to kobes legacy if he literally kills pau and bynum in the locker room tonight? Just full blown rampage

[LakersReign]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

Loving the so called logic here. Kobe's legacy is supposedly tainted by sweeps in the playoffs and such, but what happened to other people's legacy who the same thing happened to? Like TD for example, does his legacy get tainted too?:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yes, a far less talented team that had a Cinderella run and gelled at the right time, led by a superstar who had one of the greatest postseasons ever. Doesn't change the fact that they were far less talented than LA (and way older to boot) and that your boy got swept like a bitch and averaged like 22 ppg/45% FG against 63 year old Jason Kidd. :oldlol:

Humiliating blow to his legacy... you are right

What kind of scrub cant make it to the Finals 4 times in a row and win 3 championships in a row?

Maybe he should call up Tim Duncan and ask him how he dealt with the devastating blow to his legacy last year :lol

[dude77]

kobe stans have nothing to say .. kobe may not have to do anything else in his career .. won't 'taint' it .. but it shows everyone he's no jordan .. never was ..

jordan would never allow one of his title contending teams to get manhandled like this .. getting blown out twice, losing at home in an elimination game and getting pushed to a game 7 against an inferior opponent in the 1st round .. getting swept in the first round coming off a title ? fk outta here

these last two years are also a bad reflection of kobe's leadership .. his players look like they don't give a fk .. they're not rallying around their leader .. this fggt bynum smiling on the bench while they're down 20+ and chuckling like a fggt in the post game interview I'm watching right now ..

this garbage would not go down with jordan .. I guarantee you bynum would be playing his ass off for jordan

[RazorBaLade]

kobe stans have nothing to say .. kobe may not have to do anything else in his career .. won't 'taint' it .. but it shows everyone he's no jordan .. never was ..

jordan would never allow one of his title contending teams to get manhandled like this .. getting blown out twice, losing at home in an elimination game and getting pushed to a game 7 against an inferior opponent in the 1st round .. getting swept in the first round coming off a title ? fk outta here

i hate these kinds of posts. its almost like jordan is a mythical creature that never lost or made mistakes. Hey buddy, he let his team get swept twice.

Maybe having a good team matters, just a little? If pau and bynum showed up today, kobe has an epic flu game. Why is that kobes fault?

Is kobe worse than jordan? YES! NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT! But dont undermine everyone elses greatness just because you were 12 when you first came to an imagine of michael jordan. Individual performances matter, but the lakers were down by 20 in the 4th if kobe had MADE EVERY SINGLE SHOT HE TOOK. This just was not going to be a win, im sorry.

[DMAVS41]

i hate these kinds of posts. its almost like jordan is a mythical creature that never lost or made mistakes. Hey buddy, he let his team get swept twice.

Maybe having a good team matters, just a little? If pau and bynum showed up today, kobe has an epic flu game. Why is that kobes fault?

Is kobe worse than jordan? YES! NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT! But dont undermine everyone elses greatness just because you were 12 when you first came to an imagine of michael jordan

But why do you and others that are Kobe fans only talk about the bold when it comes to Kobe?

You trash guys like Dirk and Lebron (Cavs) for losing in the playoffs. Do you understand that a guy like Terry's average game isn't even close to as good as Bynum's impact in a game like this?

You guys just have no clue what its actually like for most of these other superstar players.

I don't disagree at all with your statement, in fact I agree with it. Just wish you could apply the same logic to other players......other than just saying:

5 rings...

[OldSchoolBBall]

Humiliating blow to his legacy... you are right

What kind of scrub cant make it to the Finals 4 times in a row and win 3 championships in a row?

Maybe he should call up Tim Duncan and ask him how he dealt with the devastating blow to his legacy last year :lol

No one tries to act like Duncan is the GOAT, or that he's better than he actually is. Big difference.

[dajadeed]

It definitely taints his legacy. The sweep last year against a far less talented Mavs team hurt it in the eyes of non-stans, and now losing to a far less talented team (again) in the first round would do some real damage.

The sweep against the eventual champs?

You are an idiot. Your mother is a whore.

[RazorBaLade]

But why do you and others that are Kobe fans only talk about the bold when it comes to Kobe?

You trash guys like Dirk and Lebron (Cavs) for losing in the playoffs. Do you understand that a guy like Terry's average game isn't even close to as good as Bynum's impact in a game like this?

You guys just have no clue what its actually like for most of these other superstar players.

I don't disagree at all with your statement, in fact I agree with it. Just wish you could apply the same logic to other players......other than just saying:

5 rings...

There's a big difference between trashing an individual player and trashing a career accomplishment though.

I didn't really even hate bron until the miami thing and the last years finals thing, but I criticized him as a player for the boston thing.. not his career. I didnt say yo, lebron can not be in the top 50 all time if he quits against boston and lost against the spurs. No, he had a shitty team, I get that. Same with dirk. I don't think the guy underperformed as an INDIVIDUAL, ever, but his CAREER does not stack up. When you make an all time list, accolades are a factor, and dirk and lebron have a problem with their CAREERS. I trash the careers, not the players (unless its something like the finals last year, where bron lost it).. So last year I disliked lebron as his skill ANd career goes, but until then, I never trashed the skill. Only that the career doesnt stack up.

not trying to go super in detail and give you more examples but i can if you didnt get my point from that. Difference between an individual and hating on someones accolades.. But both are important for all time list.

[chazzy]

No one tries to act like Duncan is the GOAT, or that he's better than he actually is. Big difference.
If you already think he's overrated, then how would this be a huge legacy hit for you?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No one tries to act like Duncan is the GOAT, or that he's better than he actually is. Big difference.


He's been the consensus Greatest Power Forward of All Time for a while now.

:confusedshrug:

Kobe's been the consensus 2nd greatest SG of all time and the GOAT when Lakerd fans want to get your consensus panties in a bunch.

[DMAVS41]

There's a big difference between trashing an individual player and trashing a career accomplishment though.

I didn't really even hate bron until the miami thing and the last years finals thing, but I criticized him as a player for the boston thing.. not his career. Same with dirk. I don't think the guy underperformed as an INDIVIDUAL, ever, but his CAREER does not stack up. When you make an all time list, accolades are a factor, and dirk and lebron have a problem with their CAREERS. I trash the careers, not the players (unless its something like the finals last year, where bron lost it)

not trying to go super in detail and give you more examples but i can if you didnt get my point from that. Difference between an individual and hating on someones accolades.. But both are important for all time list.

So if its about "career"...then why wouldn't this impact Kobe's career legacy according to you?

I don't see how you can have it both ways.

[miggyme1]

It just go to show yall bums dat kobe will never be jordan!never!


Jordan made people play 10 times better than wat they was capable of.steve kerr,kukoc,armstrong,list goes on.the bulls were alwats a talented team even without jordan during the mid 90's but they lacked jordans determination and his ability to get the best out of his teammates every game.lebron does it to an extent but lebron isnt that great of an emotional leader.i think its hard for people to accept a serious,mean,vicious,aggresive lebron cuz we became accustomed to this nikka dancin like p diddy,smiling,posin and shit!lol

[Whoah10115]

Nothing.

[dude77]

i hate these kinds of posts. its almost like jordan is a mythical creature that never lost or made mistakes. Hey buddy, he let his team get swept twice.

Maybe having a good team matters, just a little? If pau and bynum showed up today, kobe has an epic flu game. Why is that kobes fault?

Is kobe worse than jordan? YES! NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT! But dont undermine everyone elses greatness just because you were 12 when you first came to an imagine of michael jordan. Individual performances matter, but the lakers were down by 20 in the 4th if kobe had MADE EVERY SINGLE SHOT HE TOOK. This just was not going to be a win, im sorry.

wtf is this shit about having a good team around you ? I though the lakers were unstoppable with their 'twin towers' and kobe bryant and have a great shot to win another title this year ? :hammerhead:

as for getting swept .. he never got swept when he had a title contender .. that shit was fkin' unfathomable .. they never lost a series(when mj was there full time) .. with kobe it's not that big of a surprise .. legends make their team better and their teammates rally around them .. these guys looked like they didn't give a shit .. that's a reflection on kobe

[RazorBaLade]

So if its about "career"...then why wouldn't this impact Kobe's career legacy according to you?

I don't see how you can have it both ways.

Because his career is already set.. There's really nothing he can do to not be around the top 10 anymore. If he ever manages to raise his SKILL and wins, then he may go into the top 5 ultimate echelon.. But losing just keeps him where he is.

Same with lebron. Lose again, he stays where he is. Win, he finally starts climbing that career list. If lebron loses while scoring 27 7 7 , his skill rises so maybe he even goes up overall, if he loses while scoring 15, he again stays where is.

[stallionaire]

kobe stans have nothing to say .. kobe may not have to do anything else in his career .. won't 'taint' it .. but it shows everyone he's no jordan .. never was ..


This, THIS THIS THIS THIS. :applause:

[ihoopallday]

If your always going to say"Kobe has 5 rings", then you also need to give him the blame when he loses. That's what's annoying with some of you. He gets all the credit for winning, but as soon as they start losing, it's someone else's fault.

[RazorBaLade]

wtf is this shit about having a good team around you ? I though the lakers were unstoppable with their 'twin towers' and kobe bryant and have a great shot to win another title this year ? :hammerhead:

as for getting swept .. he never got swept when he had a title contender .. that shit was fkin' unfathomable .. they never lost a series(when mj was there full time) .. with kobe it's not that big of a surprise .. legends make their team better and their teammates rally around them .. these guys looked like they didn't give a shit .. that's a reflection on kobe

Yeah I know. I really thought we'd win it this year. Pau and bynum just completely fell apart.

Its unfair to look at what team is a title contender after the fact. Completely unfair.

Kobe has had many classical comebacks and great rallies and performances. He is a top 10 all time player.

[RazorBaLade]

If your always going to say"Kobe has 5 rings", then you also need to give him the blame when he loses. That's what's annoying with some of you. He gets all the credit for winning, but as soon as they start losing, it's someone else's fault.

Okay, if you give him full fault for losing and give him full credit for winning, then hes still a top 10 player all time. The accolades and the stats reflect that, 100%. So what is the argument?

[jlip]

In 15 years no one will remember if he lost in the 1st round this year or not.

[Noob Saibot]

Who's era is it then?

Humor me.

No one for the moment. Gotta be a dynasty type of thing. The Kobe era was done after that meltdown in Dallas last year.

[Alamo]

I'm not a Laker fan, I'm actually somewhat of a Kobe hater. But losing this series means nothing, his career is almost over, he still has 5 rings, he's still an amazing player, still top 10 all time.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

If your always going to say"Kobe has 5 rings", then you also need to give him the blame when he loses. That's what's annoying with some of you. He gets all the credit for winning, but as soon as they start losing, it's someone else's fault.

:confusedshrug:

Which NBA legends never lost to a team as good as the Denver Nuggets in the postseason?

[ihoopallday]

Okay, if you give him full fault for losing and give him full credit for winning, then hes still a top 10 player all time. The accolades and the stats reflect that, 100%. So what is the argument?

That's the thing though, he gets way more credit for winning and rarely any for losing. If those two were balanced, then people wouldn't hate on him as much.

[Noob Saibot]

well guys like that dude at your work, are the kinds of people i dont really pay much attention to

yea i chuckled inside.

[RazorBaLade]

That's the thing though, he gets way more credit for winning and rarely any for losing. If those two were balanced, then people wouldn't hate on him as much.

I disagree. I think its pretty balanced. Most people recognize hes about top 10 but never had enough to get into the top 5 , 3 or 1.

If he gets way more credit for winning and rarely for losing and most people on this site have him as a top 8-11 player, then where is he really? Ridiculous.

[Zedja]

That's the thing though, he gets way more credit for winning and rarely any for losing. If those two were balanced, then people wouldn't hate on him as much.
Have you seen how everyone on the Lakers are playing? No heart, no determination, no drive. They just loaf around most of the time. You got Gasol learning how to be a magician, Bynum just not caring, Blake/Sessions/Barnes are just playing awful. C'mon at least try on defense.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

That's the thing though, he gets way more credit for winning and rarely any for losing. If those two were balanced, then people wouldn't hate on him as much.

Kobe has won more than other superstars of his generation and lost less. You can weigh it anyway you want across the league and Kobe still comes up on top. Dude has made the Finals at about a 50% clip and brought home a ring 30% of the time. Thats absurd.

:confusedshrug:

[YAWN]

If your always going to say"Kobe has 5 rings", then you also need to give him the blame when he loses. That's what's annoying with some of you. He gets all the credit for winning, but as soon as they start losing, it's someone else's fault.

IF they lose, he'll take blame... even though he is playing well and putting up 30/6/5... Would of been more if it this game wasn't a blow out and he was able to play the 4th quarter.

[REACTION]

If they lose this round, Kobe won't be the reason. It's their front court, bench, coaching, lack of team effort.

[ihoopallday]

I disagree. I think its pretty balanced. Most people recognize hes about top 10 but never had enough to get into the top 5 , 3 or 1.

If he gets way more credit for winning and rarely for losing and most people on this site have him as a top 8-11 player, then where is he really? Ridiculous.

I'm not downgrading his legacy at all. I'm just getting annoyed at how quick people are to throw other Lakers under the bus. Yes, everyone other than Kobe is giving up, but if that was Kobe, would you criticize him the same way?

[Leviathon1121]

In 15 years no one will remember if he lost in the 1st round this year or not.


We are reminded constantly that Jordan has lost in the first round before, and it has been well over 20 years since that has happened.

Just wait until Bryant is retired and we get another amazing player with zealous fans who start comparing him to Bryant. They will pick apart every event of Bryant's career and remind us about it with copy/pasted text.

[oh the horror]

I think his irrational haters get a little more maniacally embittered that no one factors it into his legacy.


:oldlol: This.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm not downgrading his legacy at all. I'm just getting annoyed at how quick people are to throw other Lakers under the bus. Yes, everyone other than Kobe is giving up, but if that was Kobe, would you criticize him the same way?

Why would you get annoyed if Lakers fans blame players other than Kobe for playing poorly when in fact they are playing poorly?

I can't imagine ever being annoyed by other teams fans for correctly placing blame on under performing players.

[SunsCaptain]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

Lost Shaq...

05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit

...Pick up Gasol.

meh Kobe has never had a great legacy.

[ihoopallday]

Why would you get annoyed if Lakers fans blame players other than Kobe for playing poorly when in fact they are playing poorly?

I can't imagine ever being annoyed by other teams fans for correctly placing blame on under performing players.

I'm done trying to prove my point. You can't even put you love for him aside for one minute and actually read what I'm trying to say.

[RazorBaLade]

Lost Shaq...

05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit

...Pick up Gasol.

meh Kobe has never had a great legacy.

how did jordans career look before pippen and PJ? remind me


this is the dumbest argument...

edit whoops realized its pauk and not new blood. I wont be replying, psychopath

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm done trying to prove my point. You can't even put you love for him aside for one minute and actually read what I'm trying to say.

I'm reading what you are saying. You want Laker fans to criticize Kobe for playing well in a losing effort. Its irrational. If Westbrook and Harden have terrible games do you expect Thunder fans to blame Durant as well even if he played well? Do you expect Heat fans to turn on Wade if he plays well and Lebron and Bosh stink up the joint?

[oh the horror]

Lost Shaq...

05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit

...Pick up Gasol.

meh Kobe has never had a great legacy.



So, by that argument, Lebron's legacy is now in the toilet because he needed help?


Larry Bird had help bro.....Jordan had help. Magic also had help.



It is what it is.

[SunsCaptain]

Here is a longer version:

04' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.

Lost Shaq...

05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit

...Pick up Gasol.

08' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.


meh Kobe has never had a great legacy.

04'-08'

:bowdown:

And now we see what happened last year with the second round sweep and what could happen this year with another first round exit...

:bowdown:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Here is a longer version:

04' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.

Lost Shaq...

05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit

...Pick up Gasol.

08' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.


meh Kobe has never had a great legacy.

04'-08'

:bowdown:

And now we see what happened last year with the second round sweep and what could happen this year with another first round exit...

:bowdown:

Even when you cherry pick seasons in between 5 championships... Kobe's non legacy still tops Lebrons.

:oldlol:

04 Pistons D..... 08 Celtics D......... 11 Mavs D :lol

[SunsCaptain]

Even when you cherry pick seasons in between 5 championships... Kobe's non legacy still tops Lebrons.




How is 5 seasons straight of complete failure cherrypicking?

:roll:

04' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.
05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit
08' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.

[PJR]

And Kobrick was swept by those same 2011 Mavs, and was shut down by 39 year Jason Kidd you idiot...:roll:

[chazzy]

How is 5 seasons straight of complete failure cherrypicking?

:roll:

04' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.
05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit
08' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.
Yet he has a better basketball legacy than the Phoenix Suns franchise :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

How is 5 seasons straight of complete failure cherrypicking?

:roll:

04' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.
05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit
08' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.

Seems pretty obvious

01 Ring
02 Ring
03 Ring
04' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.
05' didnt make the playoffs
06' first round exit
07' first round exit
08' Chucked the lakers into the ground and lost the finals for the Lakers.
09Ring
10Ring

:confusedshrug:

Making the Finals twice in a 5 year span is pretty right on par with anybody's most impressive 5 year stretch in the past couple of decades........ and that was his "5 year stretch of failure" :lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

how did jordans career look before pippen and PJ? remind me


this is the dumbest argument...

edit whoops realized its pauk and not new blood. I wont be replying, psychopath

Well a 39 year old MJ could drop 40pts on teams like 2003 NJ Nets that swept Celtics and Pistons in a dominant fashion until losing the Spurs in finals. Kobe? I dont see him doing this. Bad idea to compare Kobe to MJ dude.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Well a 39 year old MJ could drop 40pts on teams like 2003 NJ Nets that swept Celtics and Pistons in a dominant fashion until losing the Spurs in finals. Kobe? I dont see him doing this. Bad idea to compare Kobe to MJ dude.

MJ averaged 13 points on 30% shooting the other 3 games against the Nets as well.

Pretty sure any shooting guard could do that if they had the green light to shoot and 4 cracks at it.

:confusedshrug:

[Myth]

To me the issue wouldn't be that Kobe's team lost in the first round. The issue would be that his team lost after having a 3-1 lead..... again. Kobe is still close enough to his prime that losing this series could have some (not huge) negative impacts on his perception. It hurts the image of him being able to close out series when it counts.

[RazorBaLade]

To me the issue wouldn't be that Kobe's team lost in the first round. The issue would be that his team lost after having a 3-1 lead..... again. Kobe is still close enough to his prime that losing this series could have some (not huge) negative impacts on his perception. It hurts the image of him being able to close out series when it counts.

Would he win the MVP of this series if they lost?

[rs98762001]

The idea that a potential Lakers series loss would be blamed on Kobe is ridiculous. Of the last two losses, he's the only Laker who's played well. Any "legacy" tainting will be on Gasol for failing to show up to two post-seasons in a row, and on Bynum for failing to live up to his potential yet again.

[Myth]

Would he win the MVP of this series if they lost?

I don't know. Kobe has played fine from what I've seen (haven't watched all of the series). But as you know, perceptions are made all the time based on wins and losses, despite how the player played.

[Myth]

The idea that a potential Lakers series loss would be blamed on Kobe is ridiculous. Of the last two losses, he's the only Laker who's played well. Any "legacy" tainting will be on Gasol for failing to show up to two post-seasons in a row, and on Bynum for failing to live up to his potential yet again.

The spin on that would be "Kobe couldn't win unless all of his teammates stepped up." That is not really Kobe's fault, but when people want to compare him to the top 10 greatest of all time, many will expect him to overcome his teammate's shortcomings here and there when it matters.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The spin on that would be "Kobe couldn't win unless all of his teammates stepped up." That is not really Kobe's fault, but when people want to compare him to the top 10 greatest of all time, many will expect him to overcome his teammate's shortcomings here and there when it matters.

Is there anybody in the top ten player list that didnt lose a playoff series when his teammates played poorly?

The KobeRules you guys come up with are hilarious. The expectations are beyond that of anybody who has ever played the game.

[DMAVS41]

Because his career is already set.. There's really nothing he can do to not be around the top 10 anymore. If he ever manages to raise his SKILL and wins, then he may go into the top 5 ultimate echelon.. But losing just keeps him where he is.

Same with lebron. Lose again, he stays where he is. Win, he finally starts climbing that career list. If lebron loses while scoring 27 7 7 , his skill rises so maybe he even goes up overall, if he loses while scoring 15, he again stays where is.

So you are saying a career is heavily dependent on teams strength...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

So you are saying a career is heavily dependent on teams strength...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Not sure what the problem is. Lebron and Dirk both had great team stength plenty of times. Your team doesnt finish the year with the best record in the league without it. They were mocked because they had more MVPs to their names than playoff series victories against teams as good as the lowly Nuggets. They literally accomplished nothing. Dirk has pretty much earned a pass after winning a mere one championship. Kobe's done it 5 times and people still think they are coming up with some compelling arguments.

[RazorBaLade]

So you are saying a career is heavily dependent on teams strength...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

all time placement is heavily dependent on career, and career is heavily dependent on team strength. Yeah.

Theres a big difference between taking the most talented and best players and ranking them and an all time list, which does factor in luck and situations and making the most of it. A guy could have lived and died his whole life on a farm that could have been the greatest to ever play, but you gotta actually get it done over and over to be a true candidate on the all time greatest players list.

I do want to make it clear, skill still matters. Horry isnt a top player because he won 7 rings. You gotta do it well... but thers no sport where the greats arent forged out of skill and opportunity.

[Myth]

Is there anybody in the top ten player list that didnt lose a playoff series when his teammates played poorly?

The KobeRules you guys come up with are hilarious. The expectations are beyond that of anybody who has ever played the game.

My opinion of Kobe is pretty set. I think he will go down as one of the greatest of all time either way. I'm just pointing out how many will react.

[sbw19]

Nothing. His legacy wouldn't improve but that's about it (unless he chooses to prematurely retire.) He wouldn't lose any of his rings, FMVPS, MVP or other accolades. But, it would cast a huge cloud over the idiosyncrasies of this Laker nucleus, and Bynum in particular.

That said, with the Lakers playing game 7 @ home, and knowing 80% of home teams win their game 7s, fair or not I can see no scenario in which Bryant wouldn't receive a *huge* amount of flak for surrendering a 3-1 lead for the 2nd time on his watch as his team's leader and best player.

[clayton]

Another lost after a 3-0 series lead would scar Kobe 4 real. This is PHX vs LA part II, except this time with a significantly better roster versus a worse opponent in Nuggets. :lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

My opinion of Kobe is pretty set. I think he will go down as one of the greatest of all time either way. I'm just pointing out how many will react.

and I'm just pointing out that reaction makes no logical sense. Its holding Kobe to a mythical standard that is beyond any player in NBA history.

[Myth]

and I'm just pointing out that reaction makes no logical sense. Its holding Kobe to a mythical standard that is beyond any player in NBA history.

Just making sure it is clear that I don't think Kobe's career depends on this series. And yes, there are a lot of crazy standards set for Kobe, but it is important to remember that many of them are set by Kobe's own fans (see any "gawd" reference).

[DMAVS41]

all time placement is heavily dependent on career, and career is heavily dependent on team strength. Yeah.

Theres a big difference between taking the most talented and best players and ranking them and an all time list, which does factor in luck and situations and making the most of it. A guy could have lived and died his whole life on a farm that could have been the greatest to ever play, but you gotta actually get it done over and over to be a true candidate on the all time greatest players list.

I do want to make it clear, skill still matters. Horry isnt a top player because he won 7 rings. You gotta do it well... but thers no sport where the greats arent forged out of skill and opportunity.

Sure, but I don't see you saying the same things for others. I see you talking about Kobe's help in this series but I didn't see you saying anything about Dirk's...etc.

Just seems very inconsistent to me.

[RazorBaLade]

Sure, but I don't see you saying the same things for others. I see you talking about Kobe's help in this series but I didn't see you saying anything about Dirk's...etc.

Just seems very inconsistent to me.

I have dirk as a top 20 all time player. If his career shaped out differently I see no reason why he couldn't be cracking the top 10 but it went rather poorly.

I have never said anything like dirk has great teams, he should have been a top 10 player but hes only top 20 because hes not that good.

[DMAVS41]

I have dirk as a top 20 all time player. If his career shaped out differently I see no reason why he couldn't be cracking the top 10 but it went rather poorly.

I have never said anything like dirk has great teams, he should have been a top 10 player but hes only top 20 because hes not that good.

I'm not talking about that. I'm saying why dont' you talk about team strength for others.

I never see you do that. Its always about how Kobe's teammates play poorly. You never say that about other stars teammates.

Just seems very inconsistent...

[Legends66NBA7]

Solidify his spot as the most overrated player in NBA history.

Karl Malone has that title fully secured, sorry.


No one tries to act like Duncan is the GOAT, or that he's better than he actually is. Big difference.

The only people who argue such things are in minority, young kids, media with agenda, and/or conspiracy theorists.

I'm sure there are enough rationale people out there to think otherwise.

[heyhey]

nothing negative will/should happen to kobe's legacy based on this series

he's played well and his teammates have been incredibly underwhelming. I would say this series is an indictment on Gasol's legacy but the dude really doesn't have too great a "legacy" to speak off so

[RazorBaLade]

I'm not talking about that. I'm saying why dont' you talk about team strength for others.

I never see you do that. Its always about how Kobe's teammates play poorly. You never say that about other stars teammates.

Just seems very inconsistent...

well i dont really care about other players teams lol. i basically only watch the lakers / maybe final few min of 4th quarter if its close of other teams. i have no idea how other peoples teammates play unless i look at the boxscore and risk making a fool of myself like last time

[DMAVS41]

well i dont really care about other players teams lol. i basically only watch the lakers / maybe final few min of 4th quarter if its close of other teams. i have no idea how other peoples teammates play unless i look at the boxscore and risk making a fool of myself like last time

fair enough...

[Soundwave]

There's no way the Lakers lose in game 7. No way. Impossible. ;)

[INDI]

Yup, 42% FG shooting on 26.6 shots a game is pure genius.

Why didn't you post how much he's averaging? The difference between 42% and 50% is normally about 2 shots sometimes 3. Due to the fact that Kobe takes alot of bailout shots ( I bet if someone tracks that stat he has the most in league history) bailout meaning with under 5 seconds on the clock, then those misses are easily understandable and justifiable

[nashwade]

if he wins 2 more rings over the next 4 years, he will be remembered as the guy who was better than MJ

a big IF

[Kiddlovesnets]

It will probably suffer a mighty blow...
:rolleyes:

[Horatio33]

Two series 3-1 up then lost them. Swept last year. Swept 07.

[JellyBean]

I think him losing this series taints his legacy a lot.

as a high calibur player you cannot get swept last season then bounced in the first round this season..

What are your thoughts.

If the Lakers lose this series, it does not diminish Kobe's legacy. Kobe has done his part. It is a team sport. Even though we like to focus on one or two "superstars", which is cool. But without those 3-9 players, you don't win. It is a team sport. Kobe's legacy will not be tarnished at least in my eyes.

[AceManIII]

Kobe's overall legacy won't dip any

But there will definitely be a lot less Kobe slobbering by the media..which is fine

[Calabis]

His legacy is already set in stone.....the only thing it may weaken, is his leadership qualities...doesnt seem like he can get his guys going

[swi7ch]

Jordan has never had any trouble in the first round (especially after winning his first title).

[guy]

It won't suffer. But this year won't enhance his legacy the way people thought it would. Put it like this: It won't suffer, but the chances of him getting around to that top 5 area like alot of people have expected will definitely suffer.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe's legacy if they lose: pundits will say Kobe played with heart, but his teammates, esp Gasol, failed him.

[scm5]

Yup, 42% FG shooting on 26.6 shots a game is pure genius.

Kobe is now putting up 31/5/4.5 on 45% shooting

stop hatin'

[coin24]

Kobe has been playing great, his team has played shit apart from games 1 and 2. Only idiots who dont watch the games would say otherwise..

Anyone else get sick of losers talking about legacy after a bad/good game or series??:confusedshrug: Get a life...



Also, you cant argue about his fg%, how many times a game do the lakers fu*k around on offense and dump the ball off to Kobe with 2 or 3 left on the shot clock:facepalm You want him to just hold it so as not to effect his fg%:oldlol:

[comerb]

Kobe's legacy if they lose: pundits will say Kobe played with heart, but his teammates, esp Gasol, failed him.

Kobe is suppose to be a great leader, right? I think that part of his legacy is a sham and maybe people will start seeing that. He doesn't get the best out of his teammates like Bird, Magic, Jordan, Russell, etc

But yeah, he's played good ball and you can't fault him on that.

[niko]

Nothing at all.

[DMV2]

My belief that Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA becomes more valid each time he gets beat. :applause:

He got swept last season, now a possible 1st Round exit while being on one of the most stacked rosters in the league.

[Story Up]

Nobody will care once all the joking is over. People arent even aware of these things long term. Hakeem lost in the first round like 5 years in a row. Not with teammates like Kobe has....but still. Nobody even cares. Oscar missed the playoffs or lost in the first round like 6 years straight and he did it with a HOF teammate on an all nba first team level and an additional all star at times.

And 99.9% of people who know who Oscar is have no idea.

Its not the kinda thing history makes a big deal of.

Uhm his teammates are dreadful in this series, you watching the series?

[stallionaire]

Kobe is a scrub if he can't lead his team to a victory over the Denver Nuggets.

I thought Lakers were sweeping and contending for the WCF? Wrong, Kobestans.

[Droid101]

Kobe is a scrub if he can't lead his team to a victory over the Denver Nuggets.

I thought Lakers were sweeping and contending for the WCF? Wrong, Kobestans.
The Denver Nuggets are a really good team. They'd be a 4 seed if they didn't suffer all those injuries.

Are you really trying to say it's Kobe's fault they haven't beaten the Nuggets yet? Because any statistical metric will tell you he's playing great.

[dynasty1978]

The Denver Nuggets are a really good team. They'd be a 4 seed if they didn't suffer all those injuries.

Are you really trying to say it's Kobe's fault they haven't beaten the Nuggets yet? Because any statistical metric will tell you he's playing great.

Do not feed the Lebron lover :lol

[caliman]

My belief that Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA becomes more valid each time he gets beat. :applause:

He got swept last season, now a possible 1st Round exit while being on one of the most stacked rosters in the league.


Stacked? The Lakers roster after Bryant, Gasol and Bynum is absolutely shitty. If those guys were just consistently average the Lakers could beat OKC and San Antonio. But because they are ****in terrible they may lose to Denver.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Stacked? The Lakers roster after Bryant, Gasol and Bynum is absolutely shitty. If those guys were just consistently average the Lakers could beat OKC and San Antonio. But because they are ****in terrible they may lose to Denver.
lol its the same roster minus odom and fisher.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Nothing, except if he lays an egg in Game 7. I would dock him a couple spots on my all-time list.

[Legends66NBA7]

lol its the same roster minus odom and fisher.

No Shannon Brown either, plus some new Lakers playing right now that didn't play any minutes in the playoffs before (Sessions, Ebanks, and Hill). But I think the main problem is the coaching change.

Mike Brown is no Phil Jackson.

[caliman]

lol its the same roster minus odom and fisher.


You considered the Lakers stacked with them?

[stallionaire]

The Denver Nuggets are a really good team. They'd be a 4 seed if they didn't suffer all those injuries.

Oh man.. Gotta get used to Lakers fans saying this once Kobe goes down tomorrow. :coleman:

[Legends66NBA7]

I think this question... for some part... will rely heavily in Game 7.

If Kobe doesn't play well in Game 7, how much does it factor into his legacy? IMO, it might be very minor or have not much relevance, but like others have mentioned, not many would care as much anyways, outside of the hardcore fanatic.

I don't think 1 game changes that Kobe's been pretty much has been the best player on the team and also played much better than last year in the playoffs (you might even say, his legacy got a bit better ?).

Kobe hasn't done as well in elimination games, but his team does have history on it's side and I think we might not get to this conclusion.

[DMV2]

Stacked? The Lakers roster after Bryant, Gasol and Bynum is absolutely shitty. If those guys were just consistently average the Lakers could beat OKC and San Antonio. But because they are ****in terrible they may lose to Denver.

You considered the Lakers stacked with them?
If the Miami Heat are considered stacked, then the Lakers are a stacked team as well.

Most teams in the league would trade half of their roster for the two 7 footers if they could.

[LA_Showtime]

If the Lakers were to lose this series, it wouldn't affect Kobe's legacy at all. He's got five rings and a host of individual accolades. His place within the top ten is set, at least until LeBron inevitably surpasses him. :lol

[LakersFan626]

If the Miami Heat are considered stacked, then the Lakers are a stacked team as well.

Most teams in the league would trade half of their roster for the two 7 footers if they could.

Miller, Battier, Haslem, Chalmers > Barnes, Blake, Sessions, MWP. The Heat supporting cast is better in terms of shooting and defense while around the same mentally. Heat's big three > Lakers big three too.

The Lakers would love to get shooters like Miller and Chalmers and a physical presence off the bench behind Gasol and Bynum in Haslem.

[Pointguard]

Kobe attained rarefied air, so he will be known as one of those cats that reached Nirvana. He won't get booted out of my top ten anytime soon. He would need a lot of years of selfishness and backwardness at this point to undo anything. However, if a player gets close to him in your top ten rankings, then I could see using these years of favorable teams, the best coach ever, the MDE and such against him. That argument has people putting TD in front of him now and Hakeem fighting him in their top 10 list.

If Bynum blows up to a great center, then Kobe could take a hit for Bynum's arrested development. And people pointing at Kobe and saying well he's the only great wing to have more than a dozen years with a top 3 big at his side and more than half of that with the best big man in the game. But people can't ever say he didn't win, he didn't hit clutch shots, he ever backed down, or that he wasn't ready to go to war. Those things are cemented into stone.

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe attained rarefied air, so he will be known as one of those cats that reached Nirvana. He won't get booted out of my top ten anytime soon. He would need a lot of years of selfishness and backwardness at this point to undo anything. However, if a player gets close to him in your top ten rankings, then I could see using these years of favorable teams, the best coach ever, the MDE and such against him. That argument has people putting TD in front of him now and Hakeem fighting him in their top 10 list.

If Bynum blows up to a great center, then Kobe could take a hit for Bynum's arrested development. And people pointing at Kobe and saying well he's the only great wing to have more than a dozen years with a top 3 big at his side and more than half of that with the best big man in the game. But people can't ever say he didn't win, he didn't hit clutch shots, he ever backed down, or that he wasn't ready to go to war. Those things are cemented into stone.

No, Kobe won't take a hit for Bynum's inability to play hard and be professional. I was originally on Bynum's side, but it's becoming more and more obvious that Bynum, not Kobe, is the problem. He's got a lot of problems he has to address, because the current version is in no way fit to be the Lakers next franchise player.

People can blame Kobe for being selfish and ruining the Kobe/Shaq era, but no one ever questioned his will to win. I thought Bynum had a similar fire that was going to lead to great things, but at this point I think I was wrong.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

If the Miami Heat are considered stacked, then the Lakers are a stacked team as well.

Most teams in the league would trade half of their roster for the two 7 footers if they could.
Heat have all 3 of their big stars in their prime.
Kobe and Gasol are clearly past their prime, despite Kobe playing fairly well.
As for having 2 seven-footers, well, you see how well those 2 are playing
(and lets not blame their obvious failures on "not getting enuf touches" because they get the ball every damn time and do absolutely nothing, esp Gasol).

[RazorBaLade]

I think this question... for some part... will rely heavily in Game 7.

If Kobe doesn't play well in Game 7, how much does it factor into his legacy? IMO, it might be very minor or have not much relevance, but like others have mentioned, not many would care as much anyways, outside of the hardcore fanatic.

I don't think 1 game changes that Kobe's been pretty much has been the best player on the team and also played much better than last year in the playoffs (you might even say, his legacy got a bit better ?).

Kobe hasn't done as well in elimination games, but his team does have history on it's side and I think we might not get to this conclusion.

I think it depends, it wouldn't really matter MUCH but theres 2 ways it can be a bad game:

Lakers are down by 20 after the first quarter and hes like 2/9 and he ends up with a 5/16 game or something and they were blown out the entire time - not going to be a big deal.

Everyone plays with heart besides him and he goes like 5/16 and doesn't do anything well and they lose a WINNABLE game. - I'm going to be pretty pissed and he's going to be borderline top 10 instead of for sure top 10. Imo.

[LA_Showtime]

Heat have all 3 of their big stars in their prime.
Kobe and Gasol are clearly past their prime, despite Kobe playing fairly well.
As for having 2 seven-footers, well, you see how well those 2 are playing
(and lets not blame their obvious failures on "not getting enuf touches" because they get the ball every damn time and do absolutely nothing, esp Gasol).

I'm inclined to blame Brown more than Gasol for Gasol's performance. I mean the guy is a glorified jump shooter these days. If Bynum is going to act like a douche, they should just put Gasol's ass in the post and run the offense through him. It worked pretty well two or three years ago.

[Doranku]

Kobe would clearly fall out of the top 10 for losing a series while averaging 31/5/5 on 45% and getting carried by his big men.

:facepalm

[Big#50]

Nothing happens. Lakers are done. Kobe doesn't move up or down my top ten. At least not until someone surpasses him. Probably Lebron.

[Legends66NBA7]

I think it depends, it wouldn't really matter MUCH but theres 2 ways it can be a bad game:

Lakers are down by 20 after the first quarter and hes like 2/9 and he ends up with a 5/16 game or something and they were blown out the entire time - not going to be a big deal.

Everyone plays with heart besides him and he goes like 5/16 and doesn't do anything well and they lose a WINNABLE game. - I'm going to be pretty pissed and he's going to be borderline top 10 instead of for sure top 10. Imo.

Yeah, good points.

Also, history isn't on Kobe's side as elimination game player either... but I think it's due he had another good game in one. He did have a great game in Game 6 of the 2010 Finals. I think he might have another one.

We'll see tommorrow.

[DMV2]

Yeah, Game 7 will either be a blowout lost or a close win for Kobe.

I say the Lakers edge out a close call since it'll be in Staples Center.

[bwink23]

Great players reach a certain point where they've done enough to where their legacy won't take a dive for future failures.

[stallionaire]

Kobe's legacy will be tarnished. If he isn't trying to improve his legacy anymore he should just retire IMO.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe's legacy will be tarnished. If he isn't trying to improve his legacy anymore he should just retire IMO.

It won't be tarnished, that's a reach.

And yes, he can certinally improve his legacy. Let's just see what happens. Context should be used, but it will be far from tarnished.

[Calabis]

It won't be tarnished, that's a reach.

And yes, he can certinally improve his legacy. Let's just see what happens. Context should be used, but it will be far from tarnished.

I agree, he can enhance it with a epic game, a walk off shot, a crazy run in the fourth, he can have a moment....no way can he hurt it unless he totally fails in every aspect of the game, which isnt happening.

[Simple Jack]

Anyone have Kobe's stats in Game 7's? It would be interesting to see.

[Doctor Rivers]

Anyone have Kobe's stats in Game 7's? It would be interesting to see.

Not good

[Heavincent]

Nothing at all. He is cemented as a top 10 player all time. Nothing will change that.

Sorry, but it's just the way it is.

[bwink23]

Anyone have Kobe's stats in Game 7's? It would be interesting to see.


I've seen them before, THEY SUCK...

[Doctor Rivers]

I've seen them before, THEY SUCK...

Kobeeeee

[Legends66NBA7]

Anyone have Kobe's stats in Game 7's? It would be interesting to see.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200206020SAC.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605060PHO.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905170LAL.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006170LAL.html

Hasn't had a good Game 7 in quiet a while.

I think he's due to have a good Game 7 again... We'll see though.

[bdreason]

I think Kobe's legacy is pretty much cemented. Another championship wasn't going to elevate him over anyone else... and nobody will remember the Lakers losing in a few years.

[B]

Kobe's Legacy is fine, as mentioned before it can only go up at this point or stay static.

It's Bynum's that will take the hit. Fair or not is up for debate but he's made a lot of big talk and has done nothing to back it up except shrink from the moment

[Jasper]

We all aren't in the locker room or the training gym when this team gets together , plays and interacts with each other....

How Pau and Bynum play in a playoff series , and supposedly hungry for a title , doesn't show on the actual game court.

All these conflicts on Kobe's team , really should send us a message.

I mean after all , Fish leaves , some uncertain play with Sessions , then he shows game , the players rally around him when Kobe is sidelined ...

Then Kobe back , Sessions numbers immediately drop lik a brick , and the inside Laker presence isn't there , BUT KOBES stat line looks lik he was putting the team on his shoulders...

why doesn't he ever trust his team , become a spot up shooter , and head to the western conference finals ...

INSTEAD a game 7 with Denver :lebronamazed:

[stallionaire]

Cant wait for Chokbe to fail tonight.

[TheFan]

It takes huge hit, but not a fatal one...
However, It lowers the bar for Lebron... If Kobe loses to Denver, then Lebron only needs two titles and there will be no argument for Kobe > Lebron.

[JohnnyWall]

It takes huge hit, but not a fatal one...
However, It lowers the bar for Lebron... If Kobe loses to Denver, then Lebron only needs two titles and there will be no argument for Kobe > Lebron.

5 > 2

[Doctor Rivers]

5 > 2

3>1

[Quickening]

Kobe has shot a horrible percentage in big games throughout his career, chucked his team out of championships and people still rank him top 10.... so getting swept last year and humiliated this year in't going to make much of a difference.

[JohnnyWall]

3>1

If only basketball greatness were determined in the regular season. :oldlol:

Besides, a real MVP leads his team to rings. He gets it done. Doesn't choke with a top 5 and top 15 player beside him.

[TheFan]

5 > 2

Yeah, but also 3 MVPs > 1, and superior numbers in practically every statical field...

I like Kobe's game more than Lebron and ive been on Kobe side during the whole Lebron vs Kobe thing... but if Kobe fails to rise the Lakers over a team like the nuggets and Lebron keeps putting those numbers while winning titles, I really don't know what could be said in favor of Kobe in a discussion against Lebron.

[JohnnyWall]

Yeah, but also 3 MVPs > 1, and superior numbers in practically every statical field...

I like Kobe's game more than Lebron and ive been on Kobe side during the whole Lebron vs Kobe thing... but if Kobe fails to rise the Lakers over a team like the nuggets and Lebron keeps putting those numbers while winning titles, I really don't know what could be said in favor of Kobe in a discussion against Lebron.

But if the LeBron stans stay consistent with their logic, it'll be fine as long as Kobe performs well individually in the first 3 quarters of this game 7. The outcome of the game is secondary to that.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

But if the LeBron stans stay consistent with their logic, it'll be fine as long as Kobe performs well individually in the first 3 quarters of this game 7. The outcome of the game is secondary to that.
this.
If massive, embarrassing Finals failures did not matter, and the regular season was most important, the Lebron would already be top-15 all time.
However....

[LA_Showtime]

It takes huge hit, but not a fatal one...
However, It lowers the bar for Lebron... If Kobe loses to Denver, then Lebron only needs two titles and there will be no argument for Kobe > Lebron.

LeBron needs one title to surpass Kobe as a player. Hell, if LeBron fails to win a championship before his career ends, I would still have him above Kobe. He's arguably a top-five talent and his career isn't even close to being finished. But when you consider each player's entire resume, LeBron would need at least two titles or one title and another MVP, regardless of whether the Lakers lose tonight.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I think it's unfair to blame LeBron for his 07 Finals like some people do then not penalise Kobe for being destroyed by the Mavs or (potentially) losing a 3-1 lead against a far inferior team.

But like others have said, he's been the best player in the series. So it's unfair in many ways to tarnish his legacy when Bynum and Gasol have been the problem.

[JohnnyWall]

LeBron needs one title to surpass Kobe as a player. Hell, if LeBron fails to win a championship before his career ends, I would still have him above Kobe. He's arguably a top-five talent and his career isn't even close to being finished. But when you consider each player's entire resume, LeBron would need at least two titles or one title and another MVP, regardless of whether the Lakers lose tonight.

Oh pauk, you so crazy!

[Nero Tulip]

Kobe has shot a horrible percentage in big games throughout his career, chucked his team out of championships and people still rank him top 10.... so getting swept last year and humiliated this year in't going to make much of a difference.

Ironically he's actually playing well this series. So maybe he will get criticized this time. People are stupid like that.

[Bladers]

lol @ the jordan jockers in here being so ecstatic. Now they mad salty.

[BallsOut]

:biggums:

[BallsOut]

lul

[BallsOut]

What happens to the OP's legacy if the Lakers win this series? :lol

[dreamshake]

What happens to the OP's legacy if the Lakers win this series? :lol

:roll: :roll: :roll: