Better career: Carmelo Anthony vs. Tracy McGrady

[StateOfMind12]

Who do you guys think has had the better career and who do you have higher on your all-time list?

[Fudge]

T-Mac probably.

He's also a point forward btw. :oldlol:

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Better peak undoubtedly TMac. Longevity And a higher all time standing will goto Melo.

[StateOfMind12]

Better peak undoubtedly TMac. Longevity And a higher all time standing will goto Melo.
I agree with you to an extent. I like you think that Melo had the better career than Tmac did but I'm not so sure if Tmac's peak was undoubtedly better. Tmac's peak probably was better though but Melo was a better scorer at his peak than Tmac was at his.

[chazzy]

Melo was a better scorer at his peak than Tmac was at his.
How?

[Xiao Yao You]

McGrady

[WockaVodka]

Im so sick of all these melo vs threads.



Y???????

Cool im bout to do my own just to show yall how ridiculous dis shit is
What was the point of posting this? :confusedshrug:

I would say Melo has had a better career but Mcgrady was the better player.

[kNIOKAS]

Both top notch ball stoppers. Both getting fantasized of as of point forwards. Both not.



I agree with you to an extent. I like you think that Melo had the better career than Tmac did but I'm not so sure if Tmac's peak was undoubtedly better. Tmac's peak probably was better though but Melo was a better scorer at his peak than Tmac was at his.
I want to hear this. What was/is Carmelo's peak, anyway?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Definitely Melo. Both may be playoffs losers but Melo has reached WCF for once at least and still has his chance with this current Knicks team, T-Mac will likely to stay as a second round virgin for the rest of his career. Whoever signs him will not make 2nd round.

[StateOfMind12]

Both top notch ball stoppers. Both getting fantasized of as of point forwards. Both not.


I want to hear this. What was/is Carmelo's peak, anyway?
I would say Melo's peak or prime was from '06-'10. His absolute best season was probably either his '06-'07 season or '09-'10 season. It would have easily been his '06-'07 season if the Nuggets never made the Iverson trade though since Melo was averaging 30 ppg with 50% shooting before that trade was made. Melo, his game, and his numbers slipped when Iverson came to town though.

Anyways, I say Melo's peak was possibly better because he was a better scorer and that is the best attribute of both players. Melo was also a much better rebounder than him too. Tmac has the edge in terms of playmaking/passing and that was probably the most underrated aspect of his game. Neither played defense although Tmac had much more potential on that end but I don't care about potential, I care about results.

Tmac's peak was probably better than Melo's peak but if so I don't think it was by that much. People really overrate the heck out of Tmac's peak. People say all the time that peak Tmac was as good, if not better than peak LeBron and peak Kobe when in reality Tmac was never better than Kobe in any season.

Melo is clearly past his prime/peak these days if you ask me.

[TheWINdyCity]

If we talkin just about CAREER, got to be melo

[The Ownage]

Peak and talent? T-Mac.

Career? Melo.

[L.Kizzle]

Some one please explain how Melo has had a better career than McGrady?

[ShaqAttack3234]

T-Mac was better at just about everything to be honest. Better scorer and shooter, significantly better passer and playmaker(he was as good as any non-PG in this aspect during the early 00's), a better defender, and T-Mac was even averaging about 8 rpg back to back years in '01 and '02 when he was a guard.

I like Melo, he's my favorite current player, but I don't see much of the case for Melo over T-Mac. Melo is still in his prime, though, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm still waiting for him to put it all together for an entire aeason. He shows it more in spurts, whether it was '06-'07 before the suspension/Iverson trade, '09 in the playoffs, first 2 months of '09-'10 before injuries, or the last month of this season.

Other than Lebron and Kobe, T-Mac's peak season was the best season by a perimeter player in the post-Jordan era, imo.

And yes, T-Mac and Kobe were debatable for 4 seasons from '02-'05. I'd probably take Kobe in '02 and '04, and T-Mac in '03 and '05.


I would say Melo's peak or prime was from '06-'10. His absolute best season was probably either his '06-'07 season or '09-'10 season. It would have easily been his '06-'07 season if the Nuggets never made the Iverson trade though since Melo was averaging 30 ppg with 50% shooting before that trade was made. Melo, his game, and his numbers slipped when Iverson came to town though.

Actually, he was at 32/6/4 on 50% in the 22 games before the suspension in '06-'07, but also 30/6/3 on 47% in his first 32 games of the '09-'10 season before injuries in '10. I think he was better in '10, he had a better mid-range shot, and was a better all around player, plus, he was doing it on a team that had a chance to contend.




Melo is clearly past his prime/peak these days if you ask me.

Past his peak? Who knows. We don't know if he's even peaked yet. But past his prime? That's a stretch, he's like 28 years old, and as capable of a player as he's ever been. It just depends on if he's healthy and motivated, which wasn't always the case this season, but when he was on, he played as well as anyone for the last month of the regular season. I don't know if he's ever played better than he did for that stretch.

[StateOfMind12]

Some one please explain how Melo has had a better career than McGrady?
He accomplished more unless you want to use All-NBA teams to backup your case then again you and everyone else only use All-NBA teams when it supports the player you are arguing for.

Melo never missed the playoffs in his career whereas Tmac not only missed the playoffs during his prime/peak but he also had the worst record in the league during his prime/peak in '03-'04.

Melo won two playoff series in his career and made it to the WCF in 2009 whereas Tmac never won a playoff series in his career.

What is the argument for Tmac besides subjective All-NBA teams selections?

[StateOfMind12]

T-Mac was better at just about everything to be honest. Better scorer and shooter,
Better scorer? Nope. Melo scores with just as high volume under much superior efficiency. I'll go with Melo for being the better scorer here. I suspect you are going to bring up how McGrady played in a tougher defensive era for perimeter players. It's not going to work though because his scoring efficiency in '04-'05 was worse than his scoring efficiency in his Magic years.

Mcgrady was a better 3 point shooter but that's because Melo played more and closer to the paint.


a better defender, and T-Mac was even averaging about 8 rpg back to back years in '01 and '02 when he was a guard..
Neither player played defense so it shouldn't matter. Tmac had more potential as a defender but since he was lazy, soft, and afraid of contact, he didn't play defense nor did he do a good job at it.

Rebounding? Melo played with a much superior front-court. Weren't you the same person that was talking about how Tmac's front-court in Orlando was pathetic and that was the reason why he lost? If so, that is probably why he got so many rebounds because nobody else was capable of getting rebounds on the team whereas Melo played with great front-court players like Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, etc. and he still averaged 7-8 rpg despite of all that.

Melo is a much better rebounder and it's not even close. It's not like Tmac boxed out to get rebounds anyways. All of Tmac's rebounds came from being a jew and stealing the rebound as the rest of the team did all the hard work and box-out. When a shot came up, Tmac would usually be standing in the FT line and far away from the basket to stay away from contact, Tmac usually just came out of no where and just took the rebound from them like a jew. Melo actually earned his rebounds by boxing out and stuff, hence why Melo is a much better offensive rebounder than TMac.

[truhooper]

tmac

[rodman91]

T-Mac:
7 time Allstar
2 NBA First Team
3 NBA Second Team
2 NBA Third Team
2 Time NBA scoring champion.
Peak: 32.1 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.5 apg

Melo:
5 time Allstar
1 NBA Second team
3 NBA Third Team
Peak: 28.9 ppg 6.0 rpg 3.8 apg

Melo lost 8 of 9 playoff series in first round. T-Mac lost 8 of 8 playoff series in first round. That doesn't make Melo's career better than T-Mac.

http://blacksportsonline.com/index/tmac.gif

[swi7ch]

Tmac

[ShaqAttack3234]

Better scorer? Nope. Melo scores with just as high volume under much superior efficiency.

He never approached T-Mac's '03 season. 32 ppg on 46 FG%/56 TS%. Well above league average in efficiency too.

McGrady was also around 45-46 FG% from '01-'03. And above league average in TS% every season from '01-'04, though barely above it in '01.

Melo hasn't always been more efficient. He shot 43% from the field this year, 46% in '10 and 44% in '09. His TS% this year was 53%, which I'm guessing is below league average, and it was 55% in '10(just above league average, but by a similar margin to most of T-Mac's Orlando seasons), and 53% in '09, which was also well below league average. And in some of those seasons, he wasn't doing it on a similar volume, he averaged 23 ppg this season and in '09.


I'll go with Melo for being the better scorer here. I suspect you are going to bring up how McGrady played in a tougher defensive era for perimeter players.

It's pretty obvious, whether you watched the games, look at league wide numbers, or look at the top individual numbers.


It's not going to work though because his scoring efficiency in '04-'05 was worse than his scoring efficiency in his Magic years.

First of all, the bigger change occurred from '05-'06 on. But even so, T-Mac was also in a poor offensive system in Houston. Melo was in a more wide open up tempo system in Denver.

T-Mac also played with Yao and that was an adjustment, especially in Van Gundy's system. He started off the season deferring more, he actually only average 20 ppg his first month in Houston 41% shooting, but was much better after that when Van Gundy told him to be more aggressive. He had 3 months averaging around 28 ppg after that.

T-Mac also had to handle the ball a lot more, Melo was used much more as a scorer and a finisher at times when Denver ran a lot. But his scoring numbers have also taken a hit as he's handled the ball more.

He was as good of a scorer as just about anyone in the league in '05. He was clearly better and more dangerous than his numbers suggest. He had a monster season in '05. I consider Melo a better scorer than the numbers suggest too, but McGrady gets the advantage for me because he's a better ball handler, quicker, more athletic, a better finisher and a better shooter.

Melo has the strength and post game advantage.


Mcgrady was a better 3 point shooter but that's because Melo played more and closer to the paint.

He was a better shooter in general.


Neither player played defense so it shouldn't matter. Tmac had more potential as a defender but since he was lazy, soft, and afraid of contact, he didn't play defense nor did he do a good job at it.

T-Mac did step up at times in big match ups, he got worse defensively as his career went on, but he was pretty much like any big scorer who had to carry a team, players usually don't play consistent defense in that role.


Rebounding? Melo played with a much superior front-court. Weren't you the same person that was talking about how Tmac's front-court in Orlando was pathetic and that was the reason why he lost? If so, that is probably why he got so many rebounds because nobody else was capable of getting rebounds on the team whereas Melo played with great front-court players like Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, etc. and he still averaged 7-8 rpg despite of all that.

Frontcourt was one of the problems in Orlando(though that team had many problems). I was just saying that T-Mac was more than capable as a rebounder himself, especially for someone who mostly played guard except his first season or 2 in Houston. Melo is one of the best rebounders at his position too,


Melo is a much better rebounder and it's not even close. It's not like Tmac boxed out to get rebounds anyways. All of Tmac's rebounds came from being a jew and stealing the rebound as the rest of the team did all the hard work and box-out. When a shot came up, Tmac would usually be standing in the FT line and far away from the basket to stay away from contact, Tmac usually just came out of no where and just took the rebound from them like a jew. Melo actually earned his rebounds by boxing out and stuff, hence why Melo is a much better offensive rebounder than TMac.

T-Mac didn't have the strength Melo did, but he could get rebounds due to his athleticism and wingspan, he averaged over 2 offensive rebounds per game his last 2 seasons in Toronto, and his first 2 in Orlando. In fact, he was at 2.5 offensive rebounds in '01.

And T-Mac's '05 team was a pretty solid rebounding team, and he still averaged 6 per game. And that was a slow team.

[StateOfMind12]

He never approached T-Mac's '03 season. 32 ppg on 46 FG%/56 TS%. Well above league average in efficiency too.
And Tmac never approached the type of efficiency that Melo had during a few of his seasons. Melo averaged about 48% shooting in '06 and '07 and 49% in '08.


McGrady was also around 45-46 FG% from '01-'03. And above league average in TS% every season from '01-'04, though barely above it in '01.
Cool, that's still worse than Melo's shooting efficiency, so why am I suppose to care?


Melo hasn't always been more efficient. He shot 43% from the field this year, 46% in '10 and 44% in '09. His TS% this year was 53%, which I'm guessing is below league average, and it was 55% in '10(just above league average, but by a similar margin to most of T-Mac's Orlando seasons), and 53% in '09, which was also well below league average. And in some of those seasons, he wasn't doing it on a similar volume, he averaged 23 ppg this season and in '09.

I thought we were comparing peaks here which for Melo would be like from '06-'10. If you want to bring up Melo in recent years then we mind as well bring up Tmac in like '07 and '08.


It's pretty obvious, whether you watched the games, look at league wide numbers, or look at the top individual numbers.
You're right, it's obvious Melo is the better scorer since he had the superior scoring arsenal and scored with superior efficiency. You can take your 2-3 more ppg while I'll take the superior efficiency and the guy that can actually get past the 1st round.


First of all, the bigger change occurred from '05-'06 on. But even so, T-Mac was also in a poor offensive system in Houston. Melo was in a more wide open up tempo system in Denver.
No care, Tmac couldn't co-exist with good teammates. Tmac couldn't get past the 1st round when he was making an attempt to ride Yao's **** and He couldn't get past the 1st round when he was on his own either. The only time he made it past the 1st round was when he didn't play the series at all. :oldlol:



He was as good of a scorer as just about anyone in the league in '05. He was clearly better and more dangerous than his numbers suggest. He had a monster season in '05. I consider Melo a better scorer than the numbers suggest too, but McGrady gets the advantage for me because he's a better ball handler, quicker, more athletic, a better finisher and a better shooter.
What does being a ball-handler have to do with being a better scorer? :oldlol:

Quicker and more athletic? A lot of players are quicker and more athletic than Melo, it doesn't mean all of those players are better scorers than Melo too.

Better finisher? LMFAO, not even close.

Better shooter? Shot selection is actually important to me and Melo's shot selection was actually good, hence why he actually had good scoring efficiency while Tmac's scoring efficiency was pathetic.


Melo has the strength and post game advantage.
No shit, Tmac is a frail little ***** who is afraid of contact.


Frontcourt was one of the problems in Orlando(though that team had many problems). I was just saying that T-Mac was more than capable as a rebounder himself, especially for someone who mostly played guard except his first season or 2 in Houston. Melo is one of the best rebounders at his position too,
He is still a worse rebounder than Melo, so I don't know why you wrote this post because you pretty much said nothing. He was a worse rebounder and that is it, saying a bunch of irrelevant bullshit to make your post longer isn't going to make you sound smarter.

[L.Kizzle]

He accomplished more unless you want to use All-NBA teams to backup your case then again you and everyone else only use All-NBA teams when it supports the player you are arguing for.

Melo never missed the playoffs in his career whereas Tmac not only missed the playoffs during his prime/peak but he also had the worst record in the league during his prime/peak in '03-'04.

Melo won two playoff series in his career and made it to the WCF in 2009 whereas Tmac never won a playoff series in his career.

What is the argument for Tmac besides subjective All-NBA teams selections?
This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So is Gilbert Arenas better than Mac, he made it past the 1st round? What about Joe Johnson or Baron Davis? All got to the second round as did past decade stars like Latrell Sprewell (NBA finalist), Glen Rice, Steve Smith, ect.

[StateOfMind12]

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So is Gilbert Arenas better than Mac, he made it past the 1st round? What about Joe Johnson or Baron Davis? All got to the second round as did past decade stars like Latrell Sprewell (NBA finalist), Glen Rice, Steve Smith, ect.
:oldlol: What do those players have anything to do with Melo?

Did all of those players make the NBA playoffs every season in their career as their best player? No.

Did all of those players make the conference finals as the best player? No.

Melo as an individual player was already close to Tmac as his so using accomplishments in this case is fair. It's not like Tmac was world's better but McGrady probably was better but not by a lot.

P.S. - I actually might say Baron had a better career than McGrady but probably not the other guys you listed.

[L.Kizzle]

:oldlol: What do those players have anything to do with Melo?

Did all of those players make the NBA playoffs every season in their career as their best player? No.

Did all of those players make the conference finals as the best player? No.

Melo as an individual player was already close to Tmac as his so using accomplishments in this case is fair. It's not like Tmac was world's better but McGrady probably was better but not by a lot.

P.S. - I actually might say Baron had a better career than McGrady but probably not the other guys you listed.
It has a lot to do with Melo. Your only argument is he made in to the conference finals once. Dominique Wilkins never made it to the Conference Finals, is he not better than Carmelo? There are plenty of players who made it far in the playoffs and some who didn't.

[StateOfMind12]

It has a lot to do with Melo. Your only argument is he made in to the conference finals once. Dominique Wilkins never made it to the Conference Finals, is he not better than Carmelo? There are plenty of players who made it far in the playoffs and some who didn't.
The others would include never missing the playoffs in his career and always leading his team to the playoffs as the best player on the team whereas Tmac at one point was on the team with the worst record in the league in 2003-2004. Melo was close to Tmac as a player at his peak too so it's not like these accomplishments are meaningless. Steve Smith and Sprewell were not close to Tmac as an individual player which is why that comparison is not close or does not make any sense. Smith and Spree could accomplish all they want (except winning a ring or a finals MVP) but they were just clearly worse than Tmac. Melo and Tmac were comparable as individual players which is why the accomplishments could be and is the tiebreaker in this comparison.

Wilkins and Tmac have nothing in common either. Nique was held back by playing against Bird whereas Tmac was held back by who again? :confusedshrug: He also Yao on his team, who was an all-star caliber big man in '05 and the a superstar who was the best Center in the league in '07.

Did Nique ever have that great of a player alongside with him besides a declining Moses Malone? Did Melo even ever even have that great of a player alongside with him? :confusedshrug:

[chazzy]

This is getting pathetic

[Scoooter]

T-Mac's best days seem so long ago.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

T-Mac was better in many ways, I'd definitely take his peak over Melo's peak.
But as for all time, Melo proabably ranks higher.

[ShaqAttack3234]

And Tmac never approached the type of efficiency that Melo had during a few of his seasons. Melo averaged about 48% shooting in '06 and '07 and 49% in '08.

Almost everyone's efficiency was up as far as perimeter scorers in '06. Granted, Melo did have an impressive breakout year that season, but as far as '07 and '08? Denver had the second fastest pace in '07 at 97.4 possessions per 48 minutes, and the fastest pace in '08 at 99.7 possessions per 48 minutes.


Cool, that's still worse than Melo's shooting efficiency, so why am I suppose to care?

Again different era

From '98-'04, 25+ ppg on 55+ TS% was rare. These are the only players to do it.

Shaq did 6 times(every year from '98-'03)
Karl Malone did it twice('98 and '00)
Kobe did it twice('01 and '03)
Pierce did it twice('01 and '02)
Grant Hill did it once('00)
Vince Carter did it once('01)
Duncan did it once('02)
T-Mac did it once('03)
Dirk did it once('03)

And 25 ppg on 45 FG% is almost as exclusive from '98-'04

Shaq did 6 times(every year from '98-'03)
T-Mac did it 3 times('01-'03)
Kobe did it 3 times('01-'03)
Karl Malone did it twice('98 and '00)
Vince Carter did it twice('00 and '01)
Michael Jordan it once('98)
Grant Hill did it once('00)
Chris Webber did it once('01)
Paul Pierce did it once('01)
Tim Duncan did it once('02)
Dirk did it once('03)

Compare that to '06 alone when 8 players averaged 25+ ppg on 45% shooting or better, and 9 25+ ppg scorers averaged 25+ on at least 55 TS%.

And actually 45-46% shooting is what Melo shot in '10 and '11, and he shot worse in '09 and this season.


I thought we were comparing peaks here which for Melo would be like from '06-'10. If you want to bring up Melo in recent years then we mind as well bring up Tmac in like '07 and '08.

Peak? You mean prime. Peak isn't 5 seasons. I consider it one season, some consider it 2 or 3, but it sure as hell isn't 5 seasons, that's basically the length of a prime.

And no, '07 and '08 T-Mac isn't the equivalent of using Melo in '09, '10 and this season. He's 28, hasn't had serious injuries, and is as capable as he ever was. '09 was the year he had his best playoff run, and '10 was probably his best season period, while '12 featured arguably the best stretch of his career the last month.

You're right, it's obvious Melo is the better scorer since he had the superior scoring arsenal and scored with superior efficiency. You can take your 2-3 more ppg while I'll take the superior efficiency and the guy that can actually get past the 1st round.



No care, Tmac couldn't co-exist with good teammates. Tmac couldn't get past the 1st round when he was making an attempt to ride Yao's **** and He couldn't get past the 1st round when he was on his own either. The only time he made it past the 1st round was when he didn't play the series at all. :oldlol:

More irrational bullshit.


What does being a ball-handler have to do with being a better scorer? :oldlol:

:facepalm How about creating your shot off the dribble?


Quicker and more athletic? A lot of players are quicker and more athletic than Melo, it doesn't mean all of those players are better scorers than Melo too.

Do you realize how ridiculous this is? I never suggested that being quicker and more athletic automatically made him better, his athleticism combined with his skills does, though.


Better finisher? LMFAO, not even close.

I can see you didn't watch T-Mac in Orlando.


Better shooter? Shot selection is actually important to me and Melo's shot selection was actually good, hence why he actually had good scoring efficiency while Tmac's scoring efficiency was pathetic.

Wrong, T-Mac's scoring efficiency was fine. And his shot selection was no worse than other volume scorers of the same era, and it was far from the worst.

Melo's shot selection hasn't been as good as I'd like it to be this year either.


No shit, Tmac is a frail little ***** who is afraid of contact.

:oldlol: How someone can have this much irrational hate for a man they've never met is beyond me.


He is still a worse rebounder than Melo, so I don't know why you wrote this post because you pretty much said nothing. He was a worse rebounder and that is it, saying a bunch of irrelevant bullshit to make your post longer isn't going to make you sound smarter.

I find it funny how you're resorting to insults because you're clearly losing this argument, just like the last T-Mac thread you made. You're much better off not discussing him because you have no chance of being objective.


Wilkins and Tmac have nothing in common either. Nique was held back by playing against Bird whereas Tmac was held back by who again? He also Yao on his team, who was an all-star caliber big man in '05 and the a superstar who was the best Center in the league in '07.

Yao was a nice player in '05, but you're listing 1 player. He went up against a Mavs team that simply had more talent than them. It's not difficult to understand.


Did Melo even ever even have that great of a player alongside with him?

The '09 and '10 Nuggets had talent comparable to any team in the league.

[StateOfMind12]

Almost everyone's efficiency was up as far as perimeter scorers in '06. Granted, Melo did have an impressive breakout year that season, but as far as '07 and '08? Denver had the second fastest pace in '07 at 97.4 possessions per 48 minutes, and the fastest pace in '08 at 99.7 possessions per 48 minutes.
It's not like Melo got a lot of fastbreak points anyways since he was never a superb athlete that relied on his athleticism to score so it shouldn't matter. Melo has always been pure skill.

Another reason why Melo was a better scorer than Tmac is because Melo was far more clutch and reliable down the stretch. I remember looking at a blog or an article about the recent shot finder app made on bball reference and Tmac's clutch shooting was among the worst of all star perimeter players in the 2000s.


:facepalm How about creating your shot off the dribble?
Then I would say their handles are about the same.


I can see you didn't watch T-Mac in Orlando.
No I did but he still wasn't a better finisher than Melo was. Tmac having more cooler dunks than Melo doesn't make him a better finisher though. 2 points is 2 points whether it's a layup in the paint or a dunk in the paint, it doesn't matter, both are 2 points.

I can tell that McGrady's flash is blinding you.


Melo's shot selection hasn't been as good as I'd like it to be this year either.
It's still better than Tmac's so it doesn't mater.


Yao was a nice player in '05, but you're listing 1 player. He went up against a Mavs team that simply had more talent than them. It's not difficult to understand.
:oldlol: Besides Dirk what else did the Mavericks have?



The '09 and '10 Nuggets had talent comparable to any team in the league.
But did he have a star comparable to Yao? The answer is no, McGrady played with more star power than Melo ever did unless you think past prime Iverson was better than prime Yao then this argument is over since we clearly view basketball different.

I actually have no problem with saying Tmac in his peak was better than Melo in his but I don't think it's far away like you are saying it is. Melo certainly had a better career than Tmac though as most people have stated in this thread.

[guy]

I don't know how anyone that watched both of them play could pick Melo over T-Mac. Could care less about that one time Melo got out of the first round.

[ClutchOver9000]

This is getting pathetic

be on the lookout for Joe Johnson vs Melo in the coming days...

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's not like Melo got a lot of fastbreak points anyways since he was never a superb athlete that relied on his athleticism to score so it shouldn't matter. Melo has always been pure skill.

Actually, Melo did get quite a few when Denver was a run and gun team. You don't have to be really athletic to score a lot in transition. Magic Johnson wasn't really athletic either, but scored a ridiculous amount of his points in transition in the early 80's before he developed the post game or outside shot.


Another reason why Melo was a better scorer than Tmac is because Melo was far more clutch and reliable down the stretch. I remember looking at a blog or an article about the recent shot finder app made on bball reference and Tmac's clutch shooting was among the worst of all star perimeter players in the 2000s.

And T-Mac's scoring was far better in the playoffs, even when just comparing 1st round series. That's the biggest test, how well you maintain your game in the playoffs.


Then I would say their handles are about the same.

And you'd be 100% wrong.


No I did but he still wasn't a better finisher than Melo was. Tmac having more cooler dunks than Melo doesn't make him a better finisher though. 2 points is 2 points whether it's a layup in the paint or a dunk in the paint, it doesn't matter, both are 2 points.

T-Mac being longer and able to jump higher with superior body control is a big advantage when it comes to finishing. Melo has an advantage finishing with contact, though McGrady didn't struggle with that.


I can tell that McGrady's flash is blinding you.

I can tell that your hate for McGrady is blinding you.


It's still better than Tmac's so it doesn't mater.

When you can score like T-Mac, shot selection is less of an issue for him than it is for others. Same thing with Kobe.

And T-Mac's shot selection really wasn't that bad.


:oldlol: Besides Dirk what else did the Mavericks have?

They finished the season 16-2 with Avery Johnson coaching and during that stretch they had 6 double figure scorers in Dirk, Terry, Stackhouse, Michael Finley, Keith van Horn and Josh Howard.

That's a ton of offensive talent, and they started playing defense when Avery Johnson took over.

They obviously had a lot more than Dirk considering Dirk shot just 35% in the series


But did he have a star comparable to Yao? The answer is no, McGrady played with more star power than Melo ever did unless you think past prime Iverson was better than prime Yao then this argument is over since we clearly view basketball different.

:oldlol: Who cares who his "star" is when he has a much more talented team? And Billups in '09 was an all-nba guard and definitely no worse than '05 Yao.

Iverson in '07 and '08 was also better than '05 Yao.

'05 Yao wasn't prime eYao either, Iverson wasn't even that far past his prime in Denver either. Denver Iverson was arguably closer to his prime than '07 and '08 T-Mac was, certainly '08 T-Mac.

Plus unlike post-'05 Yao, both Iverson and Billups were healthy in Denver.


I actually have no problem with saying Tmac in his peak was better than Melo in his but I don't think it's far away like you are saying it is. Melo certainly had a better career than Tmac though as most people have stated in this thread.

Considering I don't think Melo was a better player than T-Mac whether we're comparing prime or peak, I don't really agree that he's had a better career yet. If he had more of a longevity advantage then maybe.

[StateOfMind12]

And T-Mac's scoring was far better in the playoffs, even when just comparing 1st round series. That's the biggest test, how well you maintain your game in the playoffs.
His scoring was about the same in the post-season as it was in the regular season, it's not like Tmac was playing elite defenses either. The best one was the 2003 Pistons and the rest were average defenses at best.

Melo was a more reliable and efficient scorer than Tmac. Enjoy Tmac's extra 2-3 ppg with more waste of possessions and I'll enjoy Melo's more efficient, more reliable, and more clutch scoring instead.


And you'd be 100% wrong.
Nope.


T-Mac being longer and able to jump higher with superior body control is a big advantage when it comes to finishing. Melo has an advantage finishing with contact, though McGrady didn't struggle with that.

It doesn't matter. Melo was a better finisher unless you plan on showing their stats around the rim and in the paint or whatever. There is a reason why Melo's FG% and efficiency was higher in his early years than his recent years. It is because Melo played in the post and closer to the paint far more back then than he does today. Melo has turned into Tmac practically and has turned into a jump shot settling vag.


When you can score like T-Mac, shot selection is less of an issue for him than it is for others. Same thing with Kobe.
:oldlol:


They finished the season 16-2 with Avery Johnson coaching and during that stretch they had 6 double figure scorers in Dirk, Terry, Stackhouse, Michael Finley, Keith van Horn and Josh Howard.
:roll: Yeah dude, big time players, and yeah the coaching advantage of Avery Johnson.

Keith Van Horn and his 11 minutes played in the series was definitely a big time difference maker in that series.



:oldlol: Who cares who his "star" is when he has a much more talented team? And Billups in '09 was an all-nba guard and definitely no worse than '05 Yao.
.......and '09 Melo made it to the WCF while '05 and '07 Tmac got eliminated in the playoffs as usual......in the 1st round.



Plus unlike post-'05 Yao, both Iverson and Billups were healthy in Denver.
'07 Yao played in the playoffs though so why does it matter. He was healthy in the post-season which is Tmac's biggest criticism. Nice try of an excuse though but keep it coming with the excuses though, eventually I suspect you to say Camby > Yao. :oldlol:

I thought you were "done" talking about Tmac with me, yet you continue to try and bicker with me with a bunch of pathetic excuses for McGrady. :oldlol:

[bagelred]

:biggums:

[Xiao Yao You]

Tracy

[Kyle_korver]

T-Mac:
7 time Allstar
2 NBA First Team
3 NBA Second Team
2 NBA Third Team
2 Time NBA scoring champion.
Peak: 32.1 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.5 apg

Melo:
5 time Allstar
1 NBA Second team
3 NBA Third Team
Peak: 28.9 ppg 6.0 rpg 3.8 apg

Melo lost 8 of 9 playoff series in first round. T-Mac lost 8 of 8 playoff series in first round. That doesn't make Melo's career better than T-Mac.

http://blacksportsonline.com/index/tmac.gif
thread should be over after this post :confusedshrug:

[Trentknicks]

Tracy
Of course, Knick hating *******

[spiegel]

Bash tmac 2 make yao look good is stateofthemind aka RG playbook 101

[b1imtf]

Melo, because he has gotten out of the first round more often......





























Once











































http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/approval/grand/little_kid_approve_gif.gif

[Scoooter]

Of course, Knick hating *******
http://www.unathleticmag.com/wp-content/uploads/tracy-mcgrady-knicks.jpg

[scandisk_]

R3's boy :rockon:

nuff said

[#number6ix#]

Tmac was one of my favorite players when he was in Orlando but Carmelo career is hardly mid way so I can't really make a choice of who better yet… I don't even know if Carmelo has even peaked yet

[Scoooter]

[QUOTE=#number6ix#]Tmac was on of my favorite players when he was in Orlando but Carmelo career is hardly mid way so I can't really make a choice of who better yet

[Kews1]

i think its Tmac, but it could just as easyliy be Melo idn. There quiet close but i give the edge to Tmac right now.

[dunksby]

Tmac did everything better in his prime and had a better peak, he was 10x more entertaining to watch as well, it's not really a competition right now unless Melo pulls off something great.

[TMacMagic]

Tmac did everything better in his prime and had a better peak, he was 10x more entertaining to watch as well, it's not really a competition right now unless Melo pulls off something great.

Yeeeeeeerrrrrppp

[NUPE_1911]

This board is obsessed with trying to make Melo look bad. LMAO!

The reality is that Peak T-Mac is better than just about any swing man in the NBA today not named LeBron. I'd probably take Peak T-Mac over Peak Kobe as well.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Melo. His WCF appearance gives him the edge. Tmac never won a damn thing in his career.

[TMacMagic]

This board is obsessed with trying to make Melo look bad. LMAO!

The reality is that Peak T-Mac is better than just about any swing man in the NBA today not named LeBron. I'd probably take Peak T-Mac over Peak Kobe as well.

Melo does it all by himself, he don't need no help from us.

[NUPE_1911]

Melo does it all by himself, he don't need no help from us.

This is the best you could do since my post, in totality, is true. Peak T-Mac was basically a skinnier version of LeBron and possibly more athletic than LeBron.

[TMacMagic]

This is the best you could do since my post, in totality, is true. Peak T-Mac was basically a skinnier version of LeBron and possibly more athletic than LeBron.

Let's not forget T-Mac has one of the smoothest jumpshots of all time. :pimp:

[spiegel]

Melo. His WCF appearance gives him the edge. Tmac never won a damn thing in his career.
nother 1 of stateofthemind12 hundreds of ID's

[Sarcastic]

Tracy McGrady's best shooting year is Carmelo's career average. McGrady is the epitome of selfish chucker. His career TS% is below 52%.

[Sarcastic]

Let's not forget T-Mac has one of the smoothest jumpshots of all time. :pimp:


Carmelo's jumper > McGrady's jumper.


McGrady's case for being better than Carmelo is as a slasher. Carmelo's post game is much better than TMac's though.

[TMacMagic]

Tracy McGrady's best shooting year is Carmelo's career average. McGrady is the epitome of selfish chucker. His career TS% is below 52%.

Have you seen the teams Tracy Mcgrady played on? :biggums:

He had to chuck shots otherwise they wouldn't have even made the play-offs. Need I remind you T-Mac averaged over 5 assists in his time in Orlando? He would've had more if his teammates made shots.

[TMacMagic]

Carmelo's jumper > McGrady's jumper.


McGrady's case for being better than Carmelo is as a slasher. Carmelo's post game is much better than TMac's though.

You've got to be kidding me. Just watch this, it's only 12 seconds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVgrRE0ViOs

[Sarcastic]

Have you seen the teams Tracy Mcgrady played on? :biggums:

He had to chuck shots otherwise they wouldn't have even made the play-offs. Need I remind you T-Mac averaged over 5 assists in his time in Orlando? He would've had more if his teammates made shots.

It's not like he shot great in Houston or Toronto either. He was always a high volume, low percentage shooter. The exact same thing Carmelo gets killed for now, except even less efficient.

[TMacMagic]

It's not like he shot great in Houston or Toronto either. He was always a high volume, low percentage shooter. The exact same thing Carmelo gets killed for now, except even less efficient.

Maybe so, but there's no question he was better all-around player.

[TheBigVeto]

Tmac is not racist against Yao whereas Melo is racist against Lin.
Tmac wins this one.

[TMacMagic]

Tmac is not racist against Yao whereas Melo is racist against Lin.
Tmac wins this one.

Melo is just jealous nobody's talking about him. :durantunimpressed:

[Sarcastic]

Maybe so, but there's no question he was better all-around player.

McGrady is the better playmaker. I would say Carmelo is the better rebounder, or at least when he wants to be. He can throw his weight around and bang with bigger players. I think they BOTH have the problem of settling for long jumpers, when they should be either slashing (McGrady) or posting up (Melo).

With McGrady's athleticism and ball handling, he would have been better off in more of a Penny Hardaway role, where he was asked to create for others, and score in the low 20s. I think he would have been better off staying with Vince in Toronto.

[TMacMagic]

McGrady is the better playmaker. I would say Carmelo is the better rebounder, or at least when he wants to be. He can throw his weight around and bang with bigger players. I think they BOTH have the problem of settling for long jumpers, when they should be either slashing (McGrady) or posting up (Melo).

With McGrady's athleticism and ball handling, he would have been better off in more of a Penny Hardaway role, where he was asked to create for others, and score in the low 20s. I think he would have been better off staying with Vince in Toronto.

No question. Had he stayed with in Toronto he would have at least made it out of the first round. Him and Vince worked so well together, but T-Mac was too selfish to realize that. T-Mac just wanted to be in the spotlight.

[StateOfMind12]

I was trolling this thread hard earlier.... :oldlol:

Anyways, Tmac from '01-'03 was about a level or two better than Melo ever was.

I don't think just because Melo got past the 1st round once in his career means his career is automatically better. Melo had massive help with his supporting cast. In fact, Melo wasn't even the leading MVP candidate on his own team, Chauncey Billups was. Billups was like top 5-6 in the MVP voting that season whereas Melo didn't even get a single vote.

Melo was much better than Houston McGrady but he doesn't even touch Orlando McGrady.

[TMacMagic]

I was trolling this thread hard earlier.... :oldlol:

Anyways, Tmac from '01-'03 was about a level or two better than Melo ever was.

I don't think just because Melo got past the 1st round once in his career means his career is automatically better. Melo had massive help with his supporting cast. In fact, Melo wasn't even the leading MVP candidate on his own team, Chauncey Billups was. Billups was like top 5-6 in the MVP voting that season whereas Melo didn't even get a single vote.

Melo was much better than Houston McGrady but he doesn't even touch Orlando McGrady.

:cheers:

[longtime lurker]

I'll take the guy that's been past the first round.

[DCL]

kinda toss up.

when both are en fuego, both are pretty much unstoppable scoring machines.

but both aren't really positively impactful franchise carriers who make a huge difference on the W/L. sometimes, the opposite is true when both are out.

take melo out, and his team might even be better cuz they will play differently and distribute.

take t-mac out, same thing.

[Snoop_Cat]

McGrady's peak of a few years was better than Carmelo's, but Carmelo's overall career has clearly been better than TMac's.

Can we stop making threads to try to deface Carmelo now.

[kobron23]

are we really gonna try and act like melo's chuck mode is better then tmacs chuck mode?? both are streaky shooters and both when hot get in a crazy zone. tmac always got in that zone more then melo. melo forces the zone and chucks up more shots then a prime kobe. its sad to watch. knick fans deserve better

[JellyBean]

Dang. Did Melo retire or something? Right now I would give the edge to T-Mac because he has been in the league longer, 2 time scoring champ, and 2 more all-star appearances. But Melo is gaining ground.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

What career?

Neither of these guys have accomplished shit in the NBA.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

OP might be the maddest person on this board (that's saying a lot). :oldlol:

BTW T-mac is a point-forward.

[Duncan21formvp]

Say Melo leads the Knicks to a top seed would that put him over Tmac?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Both players are losers

[Fudge]

Both players are losers
Hi RG. :lol

[Sampsonsimpson]

I agree with you to an extent. I like you think that Melo had the better career than Tmac did but I'm not so sure if Tmac's peak was undoubtedly better. Tmac's peak probably was better though but Melo was a better scorer at his peak than Tmac was at his.


Melo a better scorer than Tmac? I always hear about how Melo is some god scorer and how he is the best scorer in the NBA yet he has never won the scoring title and never averaged above 28 a game. Tmac has averaged 28 a game and has even gotten 32 a game. You can try to argue about their efficiency which is most likely comparable or pace, but those things are subjective and we could probably sit here and argue over that all day.

Tracy McGrady has won the scoring title twice and has overall had a higher PPG season than Carmelo so overall I would say McGrady was a better pek scorer than Carmelo.

[Chrono90]

i just can't think of one area Melo is better than Tmac

Defense?
Offense?
passing?
rebound?
steals?
Athleticism?


People might say Melo has a better career cause he has a better longevity.

[Xiao Yao You]

Tracy

[HardwoodLegend]

You've got to be kidding me. Just watch this, it's only 12 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVgrRE0ViOs

He was a streak shooter. When he got in chuck mode with a broken jumper, it was ugly to watch... but once he got that smooth stroke going, it was just so beautifully wet.

You can YouTube "Tracy McGrady shot" and find many gems. This is one of my faves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyHYnD6_2A&feature=related

[L.Kizzle]

i just can't think of one area Melo is better than Tmac

Defense?
Offense?
passing?
rebound?
steals?
Athleticism?


People might say Melo has a better career cause he has a better longevity.
Even with his longevity, he's had less all-star games and all-nba teams and scoring titles.

[KungFuJoe]

Neither guy has won shit in the NBA so you go with personal achievements.

This goes to TMac. He was also the more skilled between the two as well. TMac used to get unconscious like Kobe....scoring from pretty much any place on the court. Melo...I can't seem to recall one game where he was shooting lights out...but he's also not as flashy and scores more from closer in than TMac...in general.

[HardwoodLegend]

Tracy McGrady is one of the coolest names in NBA History, and I wish it had more luster to its legacy.

I like how it rhymes and has so much flair.

[brandonislegend]

T-Mac was a freaking monster in his prime.

[Noyze]

I can't believe this was a debate a few months ago. Oh how we forget so quickly, what is Melo better then prime T-Mac at? Melo should have a better career at the end but I dont even think Melo has ever made a first team all NBA to this point.

[MetsPackers]

I think this debate is a lot closer than some of you T-mac fans are making it seem. Here are a few things that I personally think that Melo has on Tmac: Clutchness, rebounding, shooting, CONSISTENCY, on court leadership, and post up play. Thats a pretty decent list of areas in which Melo is more effective. People might try to argue shooting in favor of Tmac since he had more range and their FG%s are about the same, but Tmac got more points off of slashing for layups than dunks than Melo does which is what equals out their fg%s; Melo has always been the superior 'pure' type of shooter. Melo's jumpshot is becoming really underrated around here.

Melo is also undoubtably more clutch and although he has been criticized for his work ethic, he's been a solid on the court leader for the Knicks ever since he arrived, and has always seemed to have the respect of his peers.

And people talking about allnba 1st teams; idk if you've heard but there's this guy named Lebron James who came into the league the same year and plays the same position and he's pretty good

By the time Melo is done I think he'll be clearly ahead of Tmac all time. He'll have essentially done the same thing but for longer and gone further in the playoffs more times. Who knows, maybe even get a ring (don't hate). He'll be way higher on the all time point list even though Tmac will have a better peak, and will be nowhere near the level of loserdom that Tmac will forever be on

[AngelEyes]

At their best I believe McGrady was the superior player. As for a career I expect Anthony to have a better and more complete career.

[Edwin]

Carmelo's had the better career overall because he's been at the top of one of the best players in the league for a couple of years and McGrady didn't last that long at the top as one of the best.

However McGrady's time at the top as one of the best is better than anytime Carmelo has been at the top as one of the best.

[AngelEyes]

Carmelo's had the better career overall because he's been at the top of one of the best players in the league for a couple of years and McGrady didn't last that long at the top as one of the best.

However McGrady's time at the top as one of the best is better than anytime Carmelo has been at the top as one of the best.

McGrady was very special in his first three years in Orlando. He then disappointed me a little from there when he began to have a poorer shot selection. I expect Anthony will have the kind of longevity that McGrady's career lacked.

[andremiller07]

At there best TMac>Melo in terms of overall career Melo>Tmac

[Cali Syndicate]

I agree with you to an extent. I like you think that Melo had the better career than Tmac did but I'm not so sure if Tmac's peak was undoubtedly better. Tmac's peak probably was better though but Melo was a better scorer at his peak than Tmac was at his.

Trippin'

[Cali Syndicate]

I was trolling this thread hard earlier.... :oldlol:

Anyways, Tmac from '01-'03 was about a level or two better than Melo ever was.

I don't think just because Melo got past the 1st round once in his career means his career is automatically better. Melo had massive help with his supporting cast. In fact, Melo wasn't even the leading MVP candidate on his own team, Chauncey Billups was. Billups was like top 5-6 in the MVP voting that season whereas Melo didn't even get a single vote.

Melo was much better than Houston McGrady but he doesn't even touch Orlando McGrady.

Trying to save face?

[AngelEyes]

Trippin'

Indeed. McGrady was the better scorer.

[Sharmer]

T mac prime 32.1 PPG, 45.7% field , 38% 3 point, not even close.

I can't think of any other player other than Kobe, over the last decade who can compare on pure scoring ability.

Regardless of scoring ability, T mac had better ball handling and court vision; overall just a more talented, all rounded better player.

[JohnnySic]

Carmelo had/will have the better career.

[Sharmer]

No one knows the future, if Carmelo stays healthy he may have a better career, however I tend to judge players on comparisons between there prime. This is fair, because luck has a big part of it with injuries, some players heal up others don't.

Now if we consider T mac was healthy through out the course of his career, this even wouldn't be a discussion, as we could only imagine, how good he could of been, if injuries didn't play a big role in his career.

[L.Kizzle]

Carmelo had/will have the better career.
How does one have a better career? Does Kenny Smith ad his 2 titles rank over McGrady as a player with a better career?

[JohnnySic]

How does one have a better career? Does Kenny Smith ad his 2 titles rank over McGrady as a player with a better career?
TMac started falling off before he hit 30. I think that Carmelo will have more longevity than that.

[rodman91]

How does one have a better career? Does Kenny Smith ad his 2 titles rank over McGrady as a player with a better career?

Kenny Smith was a role player though. Melo is a franchise player. I don't think he'll be as good as T-Mac as a player though.

If T-Mac had good teammates when he was healthy, we would ask T-Mac vs Lebron now.. I can't blame the players who go better franchises when i see how T-Mac,AI & Garnett wasted prime years in horrible teams.

[HardwoodLegend]

Kenny Smith was a role player though. Melo is a franchise player. I don't think he'll be as good as T-Mac as a player though.

If T-Mac had good teammates when he was healthy, we would ask T-Mac vs Lebron now.. I can't blame the players who go better franchises when i see how T-Mac,AI & Garnett wasted prime years in horrible teams.

What's funny is how people love to bring up the fact that T-Mac played with Yao when they only had one legitimate shot at advancing in the postseason together.

In their first postseason against Dallas in 2005, T-Mac thoroughly outplayed Dirk head-to-head, but Yao was only able to give 31 minutes per game on the floor. He made a solid contribution despite the limited time to back T-Mac up, yet they still lost in 7 games. Why? Because they had no solid role players to back them up. Pretty sad situation for T-Mac to outgun the other team's best player and still lose.

[Y2Gezee]

Prime Tmac was a great player. Who knows how good he truly was though? When he played by himself and scrubs on terrible teams, he scored amazingly. But he was basically playing for nothing.

He got to Houston with Yao, and his scoring dipped while playing with another scorer. Then Yao got hurt at the wrong times a lot, or even TMac and they never got out of the first round.

I think Tmac was a better passer, better jumpshooter, that's all I'll definitely give him.

[Duncan21formvp]

TMac started falling off before he hit 30. I think that Carmelo will have more longevity than that.
Yeah it is a shame. Because in 2008 he was 28 and after that he was pretty much finished with the surgery he had the next season.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

What career?

Neither of these guys have accomplished shit in the NBA.

Lol, I just got negged from the past for this. WTF?

[bdreason]

Talent-wise it's T-Mac, no doubt. Career? Melo has more accolades.

[HardwoodLegend]

What's funny is how people love to bring up the fact that T-Mac played with Yao when they only had one legitimate shot at advancing in the postseason together.

In their first postseason against Dallas in 2005, T-Mac thoroughly outplayed Dirk head-to-head, but Yao was only able to give 31 minutes per game on the floor. He made a solid contribution despite the limited time to back T-Mac up, yet they still lost in 7 games. Why? Because they had no solid role players to back them up. Pretty sad situation for T-Mac to outgun the other team's best player and still lose.

And, what made T-Mac's 2005 Playoff showing even more special was that his defense was a big reason for Dirk's struggles at times. He was D'ing him up hard and forcing bad shots out of him.

[TAZORAC]

Anthony can score and rebound, Mcgrady can just score, and he was a better scorer. Overall I'd rather have Anthony on my team.

[TAZORAC]

No one knows the future, if Carmelo stays healthy he may have a better career, however I tend to judge players on comparisons between there prime. This is fair, because luck has a big part of it with injuries, some players heal up others don't.

Now if we consider T mac was healthy through out the course of his career, this even wouldn't be a discussion, as we could only imagine, how good he could of been, if injuries didn't play a big role in his career.

If Anthony stays healthy? Anthony has been in the NBA 8 years now, your talking as if this is his 2nd or 3rd year. He's already had a better career then Tracy 'hurt' Mcgrady.