Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

[keep-itreal]

Who's better?

[Rnbizzle]

Jesus.

[Pushxx]

Ray Allen.

[StateOfMind12]

Reggie was more clutch but Ray was better at Reggie in every aspect of the game so my answer is Ray Allen here.

Reggie has been overrated recently due to the increase use of TS%. TS% doesn't tell the whole story though.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Who's better?

Omg you've obviously never seen either play...atleast in their prime.

Ray is so much more than the average fan thinks he is. He's got elite level ball handling for the 2 guard spot, can create his own shot whenever he feels like it, and in the past could really throw it down as well.

But probably most posters never saw that side of Ray Allen, the guy on Seattle, the guy on Milwaukee.

Reggie is more clutch but his offense was so limited when compared to a guy like Ray

[Rake2204]

On a whim, I'd feel as though Ray Allen was the better player. Of course, it'd make sense to take a closer look though. I just tend to remember there being more aspects to Ray's game than to Reggie's.

[rodman91]

Ray Allen better all around player but I'd pick Reggie if i was GM... without a doubt. Back in day Reggie,Gary Payton and Allen Iverson were only guys who had mentality to go toe to toe with Jordan.He so good at using screens even though everybody knows what's gonna happen noone could defend it.

Reggie carried Paces so many times against greater teams.He has many legendary games at playoffs.He proved himself over and over again against great players at toughest stages.His intangibles crushes Ray Allen's.

Allen was able to do things Reggie can't but Reggie was one of the deadliest player ever on court.I'm a bulls fan and those games against Reggie's Pacers in late 90's were all epic.

[Pushxx]

Omg you've obviously never seen either play...atleast in their prime.

Ray is so much more than the average fan thinks he is. He's got elite level ball handling for the 2 guard spot, can create his own shot whenever he feels like it, and in the past could really throw it down as well.

But probably most posters never saw that side of Ray Allen, the guy on Seattle, the guy on Milwaukee.

Reggie is more clutch but his offense was so limited when compared to a guy like Ray

Imagine if Ray Allen wasn't traded after the Wolves drafted him.

Garnett and Ray Allen together would be multiple championships.

[inclinerator]

ray allen

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Imagine if Ray Allen wasn't traded after the Wolves drafted him.

Garnett and Ray Allen together would be multiple championships.

Those two definitely have some of the best winning mindsets in the game today, plus they're games definitely would have complemented each other. Prime KG in the post, gets doubled, kicks it out to Ray for an easy 3.

Marbury and KG looked real promising though. Steph used to be a baller man, a lot of people forget how skilled he was at one point, looked like a future hall of fame candidate sometimes. Too bad mentally he just wasn't mature, and didnt really grasp the team concept always.

[no pun intended]

Everyone here should agree on Ray Allen...

[Pushxx]

Those two definitely have some of the best winning mindsets in the game today, plus they're games definitely would have complemented each other. Prime KG in the post, gets doubled, kicks it out to Ray for an easy 3.

Marbury and KG looked real promising though. Steph used to be a baller man, a lot of people forget how skilled he was at one point, looked like a future hall of fame candidate sometimes. Too bad mentally he just wasn't mature, and didnt really grasp the team concept always.

Well that's the point. Ray was not a basketcase.

[Whoah10115]

Ray Allen better all-around. Ray Allen probably had a better peak.


But Reggie was consistent and in the playoffs he showed he was much more than just a guy going around screens. Limited or not, he got it done.



It's just factually incorrect that he wasn't a great player. He wasn't just clutch, his volume of points was high and he had years where he was a huge scorer.



He played in a system. Maybe that worked better, as he was limited, but it shortchanged how good his numbers could have been. I think, from beginning to end, I probably take Reggie.

[dbugz]

Reggie as a leader > Ray

But aside from that, I'll take Ray's all around game.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Well that's the point. Ray was not a basketcase.

Yeah but what im saying is at the time, you really can't blame Minny for doing that trade...it looked correct at the time. A dynamic probably future all-star pg to create easy opportunities for their blossoming big man.

[Pushxx]

Yeah but what im saying is at the time, you really can't blame Minny for doing that trade...it looked correct at the time. A dynamic probably future all-star pg to create easy opportunities for their blossoming big man.

I disagree. Ray Allen looked better to me in college and I thought he was going to translate to the NBA better.

[Kblaze8855]

He so good at using screens even though everybody knows what's gonna happen noone could defend it.

Sure they could. He had multiple stretches in his prime putting up 16-17ppg for months. He wasnt having 2-13, 3-10, and 1-16 games in the playoffs because he was unstoppable.

I know you dont literally mean he couldnt be defended...but I dont think he even merits inclusion among the guys we say that of in hyperbole.

Especially the idea that his screens got him shots at some high rate. he probably ran off 30-50 screens a night and got 8 shots out of it. It would get him looks enough to score his 15-25 points and some nights he might get hot and make contested shots.

But he wasnt just murdering teams with crazy buckets off the ball. He was more of an in the flow of the game scorer than a guy who just gives you the business. He was trouble on set plays at the end of the game because they would pull out something almost sure ot at least get the ball in his hands and he was clutch as hell.

But...he was never what id call unstoppable.

[KayHaven]

Walter Ray Allen

Game has always been smooth...but the young ray Allen...the Bucks and Sonics Ray Allen was one of the best overall players in the league...unfortunately he was always stuck in small markets and unlike today there was a huge surplus of SGs taking the lime light...

However I really couldn't be mad if someone picked Reggie...Reggie always went for the kill...and was deadly...he also went to war with the 90's Knicks and MJ and held his own..something I think Ray would've struggled with cause back then u needed a certain edge to play against those teams

[pauk]

<--------------------------

[D.J.]

Reggie was more clutch, though that's not to say Ray wasn't. But Ray was the better player in every other aspect of the game. He was so much more than a three point shooter. Sure he could shoot... but he could create, attack the hoop, dunk in your face, pass, and defend. People really forget how versatile and complete of a player Ray was as a Buck.

[no pun intended]

Ray is fcuking clutch.

[StateOfMind12]

Reggie was more clutch, though that's not to say Ray wasn't. But Ray was the better player in every other aspect of the game. He was so much more than a three point shooter. Sure he could shoot... but he could create, attack the hoop, dunk in your face, pass, and defend. People really forget how versatile and complete of a player Ray was as a Buck.
Ray wasn't that good or capable in those two aspects of the game but he was certainly better than Reggie at it.

I don't think people realize how stacked and good Reggie's Pacers were. I hate how everybody is giving Reggie all the credit for leading those Pacers teams to the playoffs and going deep in the playoffs occasionally and acting as if he did it all by himself. Reggie's teammates were very good and they were much better than the teammates Ray was playing before he joined the Celtics.

[Punpun]

Dude, both of them are remembered for their 3-P shooting stroke. Now who is the all time leader of those two ? Ray. All is said.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Ray in Milwaukee and Seattle was clearly the better, more complete player. He could shoot at least as well as Reggie, probably better, imo. But he was a real threat creating his own shot off the dribble, and he was a good enough passer/playmaker to operate as a point guard at times, or as your primary ball handler. Reggie simply didn't have those things in his game. He was also much more athletic than Reggie.

Ray started playing more like Reggie in Boston when he was past his prime, and did it as well as Reggie did, except he was still a better finisher and ball handler.

Neither were good defenders, imo, but outside of defense, Ray was more of a complete player in Milwaukee and Seattle.

Nothing against Reggie either, I can give him credit for being such a good shooter, often raising his game in the playoffs and big moments, and it is nice to have a guy who will score 20+ playing off the ball so much. It worked really well when Indiana got to the finals because they had a 1 on 1 scorer to go with him(Jalen Rose), a true point guard(Mark Jackson) and a post scorer(Rik Smits). You can't have too many people who need the ball.

Reggie could light it up, he averaged 25 ppg on 51/41/87 shooting % in '90, and 20 ppg in '94 with percentages of 50/42/91.

And his extended playoff runs were impressive too. 26 ppg in 17 games to the ECF in '95, 24 ppg in 22 playoff games to the finals in '00, 23 ppg in 16 playoff games to the ECF in '94, and 20 ppg in 16 and 13 games respectively to the '98 and '99 ECF.



Ray wasn't that good or capable in those two aspects of the game but he was certainly better than Reggie at it.

I don't think people realize how stacked and good Reggie's Pacers were. I hate how everybody is giving Reggie all the credit for leading those Pacers teams to the playoffs and going deep in the playoffs occasionally and acting as if he did it all by himself. Reggie's teammates were very good and they were much better than the teammates Ray was playing before he joined the Celtics.

Well, Ray's Bucks were pretty talented from '00-'02 when they had the big 3, plus another talented scorer in Tim Thomas coming off the bench, and they added Anthony Mason in '02, while Michael Redd was also becoming a scoring threat off the bench.

[rodman91]

Reggie Miller was natural born killer. He was still killing it at old age. He was 34 years old when he led his team to finals. 24 ppg during playoffs including 24.3 ppg in finals.

He killed Ray Allen in 2000 playoffs in 5th game (back then it was 5 game series)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eOuUO0lif4

Reggie : 41 points (%60)
Allen: 18 points (%27)

Pacers : 3 Bucks : 2

[pauk]

Pleeeeeasssee.... for Ray Allens game/gamestyle to exist there had to be Reggie Miller and hence Reggie Miller has to come first, he is the ORIGINAL.. the best one....
Ray has said (and Rip Hamilton) multiple times that he patterned his game after Reggie, that he "stole" all Reggies moves especially of the ball movement, screen tricks, how to get open and so on... Reggie was by extremly far the best of the ball/screen abusing/catch n shoot player in basketball history, Michael Jordan has said that to... you will never see somebody as good as him in that department, he had so many tricks up his sleeve to get open, running around and around like a marathon runner, grabbing his own teammate who set the screen to lever himself around him at the opposite side, hesitating all over the court between the screens/players in and out, left, right, up, down, spin, flop, spin, frustrate you, using your own teammates as screens, exhaust you, spit at you, hit a J over and over, trashtalk and so on... it was freakin scientific, it was ART watching him work without the ball...

There is a reason Kobe said: "Reggie is the hardest player i ever had to guard".. and that says alot considering he did guard Michael Jordan aswell..

For you who say Ray Allen was a more complete player, watch some of Reggies games when he was in his athletic prime from 1987-1992, you know, the fade Reggie... he was very quick, fast, deceptive, dunking on everybody, creating his own baskets over and over and was a better man to man defender than Ray Allen during that time aswell....

Reggie was also a MUCH better clutch player, Ray Allen is great in that department, but what Reggie did was matched ONLY by Michael Jordan & Larry Bird..........

Last but not least, when talking about shooting... Reggie was a better shooter because Reggie was a much more versatile shooter, he had a better shooting arsenal....... Ray Allen is more of a set shooter/standstill shooter, with that i mean he is not comfortable taking of balance shots, infact Ray Allen is a very bad of balance shooter (notice that next time you see him play during any time of his career).......... Ray Allen wants to go straight UP and shoulders/body faced towards the rim at all times when he shoots during any situation......... but Reggie? Reggie basically made his shots at that ridicilous percentage from any god damn range taking Kobe Bryant / Michael Jordan type of fadeaway/of balance shots.... Reggie made his shots however you wanted it, runners, floaters, hooks, left handed-right handed, skoops, you name it....

This is for the same exact reason Larry Bird was also a better shooter than Ray Allen.......

[Punpun]

Pleeeeeasssee.... for Ray Allens game/gamestyle to exist there had to be Reggie Miller and hence Reggie Miller has to come first, he is the ORIGINAL.. the best one....

Nope. Being the first one to do something doesn't mean you're the best one. That's a logical fallcy right there.

Seeing as your reasoning is based on a faulty premise right off the bat, the rest of your reasoning is equaly bad.

Try again kiddo.

[pauk]

Nope. Being the first one to do something doesn't mean you're the best one. That's a logical fallcy right there.

Seeing as your reasoning is based on a faulty premise right off the bat, the rest of your reasoning is equaly bad.

Try again kiddo.

Sure... but in Reggies case HE WAS THE BEST ONE........ at Shooting-Guard he was the best SHOOTER/OF THE BALL/SCREEN/CATCH-N-SHOOT player ever...

No you try again...................... "kiddo"... actually, you didnt even try... i didnt see any "reasoning" from you? Just a disagreement...

[Punpun]

I criticized your reasoning son. If you didn't see any reasoning, that's because yours was faulty.

Harsh isn't it ?

(You will have to back up that claim son.)

[OmniStrife]

http://i.imgur.com/8x7ad.jpg

[pauk]

I criticized your reasoning son. If you didn't see any reasoning, that's because yours was faulty.

Harsh isn't it ?

(You will have to back up that claim son.)

I have 400 games of Reggie Miller... what claim do you specifically want, tell me?

[Punpun]

The first one you made in the post I'm answering you just answered.

[CeltsGarlic]

Pauk......

1st. Ray Ray is good at hitting of ballance shots. Almost all his game winners were hit fading left or right. And he is very good at hitting of balance catch and shoot mid jumpers.
Just one of many... 2 in a row actually (http://youtu.be/Ibv81PvZB9Y?t=2m24s)

2nd Ray Ray is waaaaaay better man to man defender then people say. Remember how well he defended Kobe? I do. He is very savvy defender. He doest buy fakes, and even without one ankle, as right now, manages to stay next to his defender.

3rd. Ray allen is crazy crazy clutch.


And please, please never write stupid shit like "infact Ray Allen is a very bad of balance shooter" . That is discrace to ray ray and yourself. What do you mean by "very bad"? Ben Wallace bad?

[jbryan1984]

Like many others have said, Ray is/was the better all around player but Reggie was clutch, he was a leader, he was someone you trusted in situations. I also wanna stress that I feel Reggie Miller was a house hold name in the mid to late 90's. I think a lot of non basketball fans knew who he was and were familiar with the phrase "Miller Time" and not referring to beer. Ray Allen, I don't feel ever hit that point. Of course, this is not a popularity contest by any means but just putting that out there. If both were in their prime and it came down to it though, I go with Reggie.

[bluechox2]

reggie did it as the main gunner...ray does it as a 3rd fiddle with good cushion all his career

[Xiao Yao You]

Ray

[Shepseskaf]

reggie did it as the main gunner...ray does it as a 3rd fiddle with good cushion all his career
That's because Ray adjusted his game for the Celtics. He was The Man on the Sonics.

[Go Getter]

That's because Ray adjusted his game for the Celtics. He was The Man on the Sonics.
He was the man on some pretty poor Sonics/Bucks teams though.

[I<3NBA]

I criticized your reasoning son. If you didn't see any reasoning, that's because yours was faulty.

Harsh isn't it ?

(You will have to back up that claim son.)
well just saying "your reasoning was faulty so i don't have to goddamn rationalize my argument" is a bigger stupidity. anyone can just say that, puff up his chest, and feel good he made an argument. but lol.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Both great players and their stats are similar but I'd rather have Reggie. I dig the mental aspect of his game and he was going up against guys like Jordan as the main man. Both deadly shooters but to me Ray was a little streakier.

[ace23]

Lol at guys making exceptions for Reggie.

"Reggie is more clutch."

"Reggie did what Ray is doing first."

GTFO. Ray > Reggie


/thread

[Go Getter]

It's close to me and many people are selling Reg short.

Dude was one of the most clever players ever.

[Punpun]

well just saying "your reasoning was faulty so i don't have to goddamn rationalize my argument" is a bigger stupidity. anyone can just say that, puff up his chest, and feel good he made an argument. but lol.

I made no argument. I demonstrated the glaring flaw in that guy reasoning. THat's what I did. Next time he should just not make such obvious faults.

And it's good that i didn't write what you wrote in your quote I guess. :oldlol:

[swi7ch]

Reggie

Ray has never been the #1 guy on any of his teams.

[Dro]

I'm going with Reggie...Reggie has more clutch moments than just the Knicks...The Bucks, Sixers, Bulls, Nets, have all been his bitch at one point...He basically was the only reason they had a chance against NJ that year...he was super clutch....how about donning the superman shirt against the Bucks and then going out and dropping 40?...there's more too...

[Kiddlovesnets]

Ray Allen = Poor man's Reggie Miller.

[KayHaven]

Reggie

Ray has never been the #1 guy on any of his teams.

F*CK how could we forget Ray got to play with the HOF front court of Jerome James and Reggie Evans while in Seattle

[andgar923]

Either people don't remember or didn't watch REggie play.

There's certain aspects that Ray is better at no doubt about that. But people always have the misconception that Reggie was solely a catch and shoot player, when he wasn't.

I mentioned this on another thread and I'll mention this again (specially since this thread is made because of me).

The way Kobe's offensive game has evolved into, is very similar to how Reggie played.

Tons of step backs, up and unders, curls, fadeaways, pull ups, etc.etc.

Obviously, Kobe is the better player but their offensive game isn't as apart as some would think. What made Reggie such a dangerous scorer was his shot which you had to respect. He had a very quick trigger and had a high release point that made it difficult to challenge. And although he was skinny, he had amazing stamina for a player his size. He could post you up better than most players today and was still very dangerous with the ball in his hands because he was smart/crafty and had good footwork (UCLA old school). While his defense wasn't Payton level, he was tough and had long arms (he was also anchored by a great front court).

As far as who would you take in your team? that's a toss up depending on your team's needs. Ray is more athletic and a better playmaker. Then again, Reggie was never really asked to be a playmaker, so honestly we don't really know how well he could've been as a playmaker.

But in today's game, with today's rules and style of play, Reggie's game would shine even more than it did because the entire environment caters to him.

You have multiple players on teams shooting 3-5 3pt shots per game, this was unheard of back then. He was also smart enough to know how to penetrate and get to the line. One of the 'flopping' godfathers, he'd be averaging around 9-11 FTA per game.

And like some may have already mentioned, Reggie's intangibles may take him over the edge over Ray. Along with Reggie's better post up game.

[andgar923]

Pleeeeeasssee.... for Ray Allens game/gamestyle to exist there had to be Reggie Miller and hence Reggie Miller has to come first, he is the ORIGINAL.. the best one....
Ray has said (and Rip Hamilton) multiple times that he patterned his game after Reggie, that he "stole" all Reggies moves especially of the ball movement, screen tricks, how to get open and so on... Reggie was by extremly far the best of the ball/screen abusing/catch n shoot player in basketball history, Michael Jordan has said that to... you will never see somebody as good as him in that department, he had so many tricks up his sleeve to get open, running around and around like a marathon runner, grabbing his own teammate who set the screen to lever himself around him at the opposite side, hesitating all over the court between the screens/players in and out, left, right, up, down, spin, flop, spin, frustrate you, using your own teammates as screens, exhaust you, spit at you, hit a J over and over, trashtalk and so on... it was freakin scientific, it was ART watching him work without the ball...

There is a reason Kobe said: "Reggie is the hardest player i ever had to guard".. and that says alot considering he did guard Michael Jordan aswell..

For you who say Ray Allen was a more complete player, watch some of Reggies games when he was in his athletic prime from 1987-1992, you know, the fade Reggie... he was very quick, fast, deceptive, dunking on everybody, creating his own baskets over and over and was a better man to man defender than Ray Allen during that time aswell....

Reggie was also a MUCH better clutch player, Ray Allen is great in that department, but what Reggie did was matched ONLY by Michael Jordan & Larry Bird..........

Last but not least, when talking about shooting... Reggie was a better shooter because Reggie was a much more versatile shooter, he had a better shooting arsenal....... Ray Allen is more of a set shooter/standstill shooter, with that i mean he is not comfortable taking of balance shots, infact Ray Allen is a very bad of balance shooter (notice that next time you see him play during any time of his career).......... Ray Allen wants to go straight UP and shoulders/body faced towards the rim at all times when he shoots during any situation......... but Reggie? Reggie basically made his shots at that ridicilous percentage from any god damn range taking Kobe Bryant / Michael Jordan type of fadeaway/of balance shots.... Reggie made his shots however you wanted it, runners, floaters, hooks, left handed-right handed, skoops, you name it....

This is for the same exact reason Larry Bird was also a better shooter than Ray Allen.......

Most people forget or don't know this.

They mad he was a more versatile scorer then Bron, Wade and Durant. Possibly only Kobe today is a more skilled and multi dimensional scorer.

[andgar923]

Reggie Miller was natural born killer. He was still killing it at old age. He was 34 years old when he led his team to finals. 24 ppg during playoffs including 24.3 ppg in finals.

He killed Ray Allen in 2000 playoffs in 5th game (back then it was 5 game series)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eOuUO0lif4

Reggie : 41 points (%60)
Allen: 18 points (%27)

Pacers : 3 Bucks : 2

ONLY Kobe, Melo (to some degree) and perhaps Durant could do some of the stuff he did in that vid.

Rip and Ray are good using the screens and moving without the ball, but don't have the same game with the ball. Ray is more explosive to the rim, but can't hit you up with all those jab steps and post game (mainly cause he was smaller).

[Calabis]

F*CK how could we forget Ray got to play with the HOF front court of Jerome James and Reggie Evans while in Seattle

Lol...Ray Allen never carried a team like Reggie did, nor does he have the clutch playoff moments.....Ray Allen may have been more well rounded in terms of athleticism, but lets quit acting like Ray Allen was somehow better than Reggie.....90% of this board saw 30+ year old Reggie....cuz dude would go to the hole and create his own shot on the regular....not many better one dribble, create space pull up jumper guys then Reggie

[Shepseskaf]

He was the man on some pretty poor Sonics/Bucks teams though.
No, that's not true at all. The '00-'01 Bucks almost played for the championship. They had that epic 7-game series against AI and the Sixers in the EC Finals. It was classic, Ray and AI going back and forth.

In '04-'05, the Sonics went six games in the second round with the eventual champion Spurs.

In '98-'99 and '99-'00, the Bucks at least made the playoffs, but didn't make it past the first round.

That's three respectable years, and one potential championship year. Not that I think they would have taken the Lakers, but still..... can't say they were a "poor team".

[RaininTwos]

Ray allen is just as clutch as Reggie Miller.

[Calabis]

ONLY Kobe, Melo (to some degree) and perhaps Durant could do some of the stuff he did in that vid.

Rip and Ray are good using the screens and moving without the ball, but don't have the same game with the ball. Ray is more explosive to the rim, but can't hit you up with all those jab steps and post game (mainly cause he was smaller).

No one from the 90's is better than these guys current heroes....its a Damn shame when Kobe says just 2 years ago at his camp on video, that Reggie Miller was the hardest guy he's ever had to guard, because how crafty he is and how he creates foul calls....yet that was past ur prime Reggie he faced...somehow on ISH...no way u can be better in ur prime years.....oops my bad only there current heroes are better in there prime....Reggie was not better at 24-28 and how dare u believe that Reggie could avg 3 more points a game, in a league with more 3 point shooting and favorable perimeter rules:lol

[Calabis]

Ray allen is just as clutch as Reggie Miller.

Yeah ok

[Dro]

Ray allen is just as clutch as Reggie Miller.
:roll: :oldlol: :roll:

[Dro]

Ray allen is just as clutch as Reggie Miller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDSF8otJH8Y

[jalbert009]

Reggie

Ray has never been the #1 guy on any of his teams.

I think he was the clear cut franchise player on his sonics team and lead them to the WCF in 2004-2005 Season.

From 2004-2007 Ray Averaged about 24-26PPG / 4RPG / 4APG
The next best player was Rashard Lewis who was a 22PPG/6RPG guy.

With the Bucks he you could argue he was the best.
Ray Allen- 21.8PPG / 4.5RPG / 3.8APG
Glenn Robinson - 20.7PPG / 6.2RPG
Sam Cassell - 19.7PPG / 4.2RPG / 6.7APG
Gary Payton 19.6PPG / 7.4APG

And back on to the topic, Ray>Reggie.
Ray is a more complete player.

[Shepseskaf]

Yeah ok
People are seriously selling Ray short in the clutch category. Reggie's last minute shots, particularly on the biggest stages like MSG, are more legendary, but Ray is plenty clutch.

If I'm on an opposing team, I don't want to see either of them going up for a shot in the last seconds.

[Dro]

We're not just talking last second shots...we're talking about being clutch through entire playoff series...multiple clutch shots in the same game...clutch sequences..I mean the guy dunks on the entire Nets team, sends the game to OT, hits a bank 3 to send it to double OT, I don't even remember the sequence, he was doing so much...

[RaininTwos]

I dont understand why people are laughing at me. Allen is one of the clutchest players in NBA History. When it comes to last shots, he's just as scary as anyone who has ever played.

[Dro]

I dont understand why people are laughing at me. Allen is one of the clutchest players in NBA History. When it comes to last shots, he's just as scary as anyone who has ever played.
Ray Allen is clutch but Reggie is almost on Jordan/Bird level of clutchness...he's like right below them...Is Ray on that level of clutchness?

[Pointguard]

Reggie had a team greatly constructed around getting him off. There is nobody in the history of the game, that has had more screens set for him than Reggie. Given that advantage, I think its too hard to clearly say who is better. I would definitely say if a team used as much resources in getting Ray Allen off as the Pacers did for Reggie Miller it wouldn't be close.

Reggie was among the best clutch shooters ever. Ray Allen was very clutch and given his blazen close out game in the finals has a spot among the elite. Reggie wins here because of his uncanny ability to make it happen all the time.

Defense wise... Ray Allen in '08 is among the best defensive efforts ever by a shooting guard in the finals. Some of it was that he had KG behind him, but Reggie Miller played on a team that was consistently great in frontcourt help defense. Ray Allen has to be given the defensive edge.

To me Reggie held down a greater team offensive responsiblity to score as the primary option. The only argument to be made here would be that Pacers would frequently use all of their players to help get Reggie off or one could argue that the team truely eased the burden. Neither should have been primary options but pure shooters can and should be the key cog in secondary options and opening up the floor.


Creativity belongs to Ray Allen. He is the greater penetrator and could create his own shot. I remember when Bowen went on a two year humiliation tour of wing players. Ray Allen was the only player to light him up - amazingly he did it without picks. It was the most amazing jump shooting performance I ever seen. By contrast, I truly believe Bowen could have totally shut Reggie Miller down if screens weren't allowed. Ray was also a much better at putting the ball on the floor.

Ray Allen has had the more impressive career but Reggie had more star moments. I think Ray Allen would also be the better player to match-up with a great front court player (say Shaq). I think Ray Allen would have been one of the greatest support players for a great deep post player ever. Conceptually, I like a Ray Allen/Shaq combo as much as I like any other offensive combo.

[RaininTwos]

Ray Allen is clutch but Reggie is almost on Jordan/Bird level of clutchness...he's like right below them...Is Ray on that level of clutchness?
Ray and Reggie are both on that level of clutchness. In terms of last shots, you dont want any of those 4 getting anywhere NEAR the ball.

[Kblaze8855]

Possibly only Kobe today is a more skilled and multi dimensional scorer.


So Reggie Miller is arguably a more well rounded/skilled scorer than Paul Pierce, Melo, and Durant? Reggie is more skilled than Steve Nash passing aside?

That what im being told?

[Teanett]

So Reggie Miller is arguably a more well rounded/skilled scorer than Paul Pierce, Melo, and Durant? Reggie is more skilled than Steve Nash passing aside?

That what im being told?

you're too old to know.

[305Baller]

Ray Allen is clutch but Reggie is almost on Jordan/Bird level of clutchness...he's like right below them...Is Ray on that level of clutchness?

Your'e funny. Pierce is way more clutch than Miller was.

[CeltsGarlic]

Just watch Ray Ray 50pts game against the Bulls in second round 2009 .Better yet, watch the whole series he had like 10 OMG clutch shots in one series alone.

[Pointguard]

Just watch Ray Ray 50pts game against the Bulls in second round 2009 .Better yet, watch the whole series he had like 10 OMG clutch shots in one series alone.
Thanks, I forgot about that.

[RaininTwos]

Just watch Ray Ray 50pts game against the Bulls in second round 2009 .Better yet, watch the whole series he had like 10 OMG clutch shots in one series alone.
Idiots are gonna laugh at you.

http://youtu.be/poVuS0PAuu8

[Bigsmoke]

Ray Allen

easy choice

[D.J.]

Ray wasn't that good or capable in those two aspects of the game but he was certainly better than Reggie at it.


You clearly didn't watch Ray as a Buck or his first few years in Seattle. He was more than capable of defending. Definitely better than most gave him credit for.

[atljonesbro]

Ray Allen EASY. The only people picking Reggie are those trying to hold onto their childhood and be 100% bias.

[CeltsGarlic]

You clearly didn't watch Ray as a Buck or his first few years in Seattle. He was more than capable of defending. Definitely better than most gave him credit for.

Totally, it sickens me how people underrate Ray's defense.

[StateOfMind12]

You clearly didn't watch Ray as a Buck or his first few years in Seattle. He was more than capable of defending. Definitely better than most gave him credit for.
I would call him an above average defender but not a good one.



Well, Ray's Bucks were pretty talented from '00-'02 when they had the big 3, plus another talented scorer in Tim Thomas coming off the bench, and they added Anthony Mason in '02, while Michael Redd was also becoming a scoring threat off the bench.
That is only 2-3 years and those teams probably still weren't as good as Reggie's Pacers. Reggie just had the flat out better team when they were in their primes and that can't be disputed.

[rodman91]

Reggie Miller owned Ray Allen when it matters. :confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

Reggie had 21 on 5/18 shooting, 10 points on 4/12, 34 on 13/27, 15 on 5/9, and 41 on 15/25 in that series. It was great for him. 4 games not really of note for a scorer and one really good one. But really...its a series Michael Redd can have and have nobody care. Melo just had games along those lines and had people conclude that hes barely even a star.

The standards for Reggie are so low for a guy with his level of notoriety. He has games Ben Gordon can have (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AQn4TlHEnw) and its legendary shit heard about for 20 years.

Hes had some legit outstanding moments but really...a lot of them are because hes Reggie Miller not because the level of play was just insane.

His series vs Ray Allens Bucks could be had by Penny and never be mentioned again. Im not sure if ive ever seen Reggie better than Arenas vs the cavs in 06 or 07 or whatever. He ended up losing(partly due to missed FTs if I remember correctly) but Reggie lost 19 years in a row so its not like Reggie was closing people out to win the big series.

Reggies series vs the Bucks isnt really worth a mention in the careers of most top flight swingmen. Its hardly what id call an owning.

Not from a HOF player known for nothing but scoring.

[NumberSix]

Ray Allen. Not close. Dumb question. Kill yourself....... Snitch.

[KrizMiz]

Reggie and not even close....

[nycelt84]

Ray Allen EASY. The only people picking Reggie are those trying to hold onto their childhood and be 100% bias.

What's funny is that I was a kid watching Miller during the 90's and I completely agree. It sucks to see people of my generation turning out like some of those older people and holding players from our childhood on some lofty perch that they don't deserve to be on. Ray Allen wins this one.

[Lebron23]

Ray Allen is the better all around player. and a Winner.

[Fresh Kid]

Reggie Miller was a better leader.

[AintNoSunshine]

Ray Allen better all around player but I'd pick Reggie if i was GM... without a doubt. Back in day Reggie,Gary Payton and Allen Iverson were only guys who had mentality to go toe to toe with Jordan.He so good at using screens even though everybody knows what's gonna happen noone could defend it.

Reggie carried Paces so many times against greater teams.He has many legendary games at playoffs.He proved himself over and over again against great players at toughest stages.His intangibles crushes Ray Allen's.

Allen was able to do things Reggie can't but Reggie was one of the deadliest player ever on court.I'm a bulls fan and those games against Reggie's Pacers in late 90's were all epic.

very good point, makes me second thought before saying definitely Ray Allen

[DuMa]

I'd pick Ray every single time. But I would know i'd hate having to face Reggie everytime knowing how Reggie can play with a vendetta against me.

[Fresh Kid]

I'd pick Ray every single time. But I would know i'd hate having to face Reggie everytime knowing how Reggie can play with a vendetta against me.
If I played against him, I would of been ejected and suspended for beating him up.

[LeBird]

Reggie had 21 on 5/18 shooting, 10 points on 4/12, 34 on 13/27, 15 on 5/9, and 41 on 15/25 in that series. It was great for him. 4 games not really of note for a scorer and one really good one. But really...its a series Michael Redd can have and have nobody care. Melo just had games along those lines and had people conclude that hes barely even a star.

The standards for Reggie are so low for a guy with his level of notoriety. He has games Ben Gordon can have (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AQn4TlHEnw) and its legendary shit heard about for 20 years.

Hes had some legit outstanding moments but really...a lot of them are because hes Reggie Miller not because the level of play was just insane.

His series vs Ray Allens Bucks could be had by Penny and never be mentioned again. Im not sure if ive ever seen Reggie better than Arenas vs the cavs in 06 or 07 or whatever. He ended up losing(partly due to missed FTs if I remember correctly) but Reggie lost 19 years in a row so its not like Reggie was closing people out to win the big series.

Reggies series vs the Bucks isnt really worth a mention in the careers of most top flight swingmen. Its hardly what id call an owning.

Not from a HOF player known for nothing but scoring.

This. How in the hell Reggie is so lauded is a mystery to me.

[mugiwara]

This. How in the hell Reggie is so lauded is a mystery to me.

Its because his a one of a kind character, he menaced and competed against the best with seemingly no physical advantages. Ray Allen is better.

[nashwade]

wow i went to search for Ray Allen Sonics mix and he was dunking and sh!t

[Thorpesaurous]

What's funny is that I was a kid watching Miller during the 90's and I completely agree. It sucks to see people of my generation turning out like some of those older people and holding players from our childhood on some lofty perch that they don't deserve to be on. Ray Allen wins this one.

I'm the same as this. I was right in my prime watching and caring ages when Reggie was playing, and I'd take Ray and it wouldn't be close.

Better athlete, better ball handler, better finisher around the hoop in his prime, better passer, better at creating, better defender. And the shooting is a wash to me.

Ray didn't really start playing like Reggie until his last stretch in Seattle and then really in Boston when they started running him around screen constantly.

[Solefade]

SMH, Reggie Miller is definitely the player you would build around over Ray Allen. You can't build a team around Ray.

And Reggie is on another level of clutch.

[IGOTGAME]

SMH, Reggie Miller is definitely the player you would build around over Ray Allen. You can't build a team around Ray.

And Reggie is on another level of clutch.

you cant build around Reggie either, unless you are ok with never winning anything.

[KyleKong]

Ray Allen beat Reggie's 3-point record BEFORE he surpassed Reggie for most 3-point attempts.

Jesus Shuttlesworth is the GOAT from the tre.

[Boston C's]

After in the steph curry ray allen debate I picked ray with a chance for steph to pass him because his game definitely has room to grow but I seriously don't understand this perpetuated myth on reggie miller like he was some all time player...I really love reggie and the dude could shoot but thats it...he cant playmake he can't rebound hell he doesnt even create his own shot well...ray could do it all in his prime the fact that this question is posed is a joke ray is reggie if reggie could create and score off the dribble so naturally he is the superior player

and ppl point out how clutch reggie is which he is but hes had a LOT of horrible moments that ppl just love to overlook as well

[Boston C's]

Pleeeeeasssee.... for Ray Allens game/gamestyle to exist there had to be Reggie Miller and hence Reggie Miller has to come first, he is the ORIGINAL.. the best one....
Ray has said (and Rip Hamilton) multiple times that he patterned his game after Reggie, that he "stole" all Reggies moves especially of the ball movement, screen tricks, how to get open and so on... Reggie was by extremly far the best of the ball/screen abusing/catch n shoot player in basketball history, Michael Jordan has said that to... you will never see somebody as good as him in that department, he had so many tricks up his sleeve to get open, running around and around like a marathon runner, grabbing his own teammate who set the screen to lever himself around him at the opposite side, hesitating all over the court between the screens/players in and out, left, right, up, down, spin, flop, spin, frustrate you, using your own teammates as screens, exhaust you, spit at you, hit a J over and over, trashtalk and so on... it was freakin scientific, it was ART watching him work without the ball...

There is a reason Kobe said: "Reggie is the hardest player i ever had to guard".. and that says alot considering he did guard Michael Jordan aswell..

For you who say Ray Allen was a more complete player, watch some of Reggies games when he was in his athletic prime from 1987-1992, you know, the fade Reggie... he was very quick, fast, deceptive, dunking on everybody, creating his own baskets over and over and was a better man to man defender than Ray Allen during that time aswell....

Reggie was also a MUCH better clutch player, Ray Allen is great in that department, but what Reggie did was matched ONLY by Michael Jordan & Larry Bird..........

Last but not least, when talking about shooting... Reggie was a better shooter because Reggie was a much more versatile shooter, he had a better shooting arsenal....... Ray Allen is more of a set shooter/standstill shooter, with that i mean he is not comfortable taking of balance shots, infact Ray Allen is a very bad of balance shooter (notice that next time you see him play during any time of his career).......... Ray Allen wants to go straight UP and shoulders/body faced towards the rim at all times when he shoots during any situation......... but Reggie? Reggie basically made his shots at that ridicilous percentage from any god damn range taking Kobe Bryant / Michael Jordan type of fadeaway/of balance shots.... Reggie made his shots however you wanted it, runners, floaters, hooks, left handed-right handed, skoops, you name it....

This is for the same exact reason Larry Bird was also a better shooter than Ray Allen.......


The bolded is extremely laughable I honestly question if you watched ray play in his prime after that statement...and reggie being able to make difficult shots is all well and good but it still doesnt change the fact that ray allen is a much better basketball player then him

[Reggie43]

After in the steph curry ray allen debate I picked ray with a chance for steph to pass him because his game definitely has room to grow but I seriously don't understand this perpetuated myth on reggie miller like he was some all time player...I really love reggie and the dude could shoot but thats it...he cant playmake he can't rebound hell he doesnt even create his own shot well...ray could do it all in his prime the fact that this question is posed is a joke ray is reggie if reggie could create and score off the dribble so naturally he is the superior player

and ppl point out how clutch reggie is which he is but hes had a LOT of horrible moments that ppl just love to overlook as well

Hate to do this again but all those advantages statswise that you gave ray allen are all minimal that its hardly worth a mention for most players. Ray Allen outrebounds him by a single rebound, leads him by half an assist and outscores him by a single point on a significantly lower percentage.

Reggie Miller constantly outplaying Ray Allen on head to head matchups throughout their careers regular season and playoffs stats wise and in terms of wins is a better indication of who the better players is in my opinion.

Ray has an advantage in offensive versatility and ballhandling while Millers edge is being a superior leader and more efficient scorer and intangibles. It all boils down to what skills do you value more in picking between the two.

In regards to his inability to create his own shot, Reggie Miller has a very underrated face up game with all the jab steps and stepbacks he does off the catch of the ball. He can certainly put the ball down the floor off the pumpfake going all the way to the rim or shooting a runner/floater. Reggie in his athletic prime dribbled the ball more and attacked the basket more frequently. I think he focused on his off the ball skills much more when he got older and on the arrival of mark jackson.

Reggie did have a lot of horrible moments in the playoffs but so did Ray so I dont know why you felt the need to mention it.

While I dont deny that Ray Allen is one of the best shooters ever its odd that a player of his caliber and superior athleticism and skills never shot over 50% in 17 years while many less heralded shooters have done it multiple times.

I have engaged in this argument a few times and it still bothers me when people overstate ones advantages over the other. To me this matchup is basically a wash and it all depends on a persons preferred style of play.

[plowking]

SMH, Reggie Miller is definitely the player you would build around over Ray Allen. You can't build a team around Ray.

And Reggie is on another level of clutch.

Reggie came out the loser in just about every big series he ever had in his career. Ray on the other hand triumphed in most of his.

Where in the hell did this perception that Reggie was some ultimate clutch warrior come from? Yes, he hit a big shots in his career, but he came up short a majority of the time in big series'.

[Reggie43]

Reggie came out the loser in just about every big series he ever had in his career. Ray on the other hand triumphed in most of his.

Where in the hell did this perception that Reggie was some ultimate clutch warrior come from? Yes, he hit a big shots in his career, but he came up short a majority of the time in big series'.

Ray won as the 3rd/4th best player on his team. Its highly likely that Miller could have done that given the same situation.

[plowking]

Ray won as the 3rd/4th best player on his team. Its highly likely that Miller could have done that given the same situation.

Doesn't take away the fact that Ray was the better player.

I was simply talking regarding the clutch thing.

[Reggie43]

Doesn't take away the fact that Ray was the better player.

I was simply talking regarding the clutch thing.

Then explain how he got outplayed head to head?

[Electric Slide]

Reggie was a better post-season player.

Even though Ray Allen could do more and had greater abilities primarily with the ball, you were better off using Ray the same way Reggie Miller was used which was off the ball.

Reggie was a better off-ball player, so he is the better player to me.

[plowking]

Then explain how he got outplayed head to head?

So this is your metric for determining who the better player is? As it clearly takes into account team tactics, who was guarding who, defensive gameplans, etc.

I guess you think Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul for the same reason then? Blake Griffin better than Tim Duncan? Durant as good as Kobe?

[Dengness9]

FWIW, Ray Allen was never the #1 guy like Reggie was for his squad. Reggie Miller was the best player on a team that took Mj and the Bulls to a game 7....
we all know how rare that was.

[Reggie43]

So this is your metric for determining who the better player is? As it clearly takes into account team tactics, who was guarding who, defensive gameplans, etc.

I guess you think Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul for the same reason then? Blake Griffin better than Tim Duncan? Durant as good as Kobe?

Statswise they were basically the same so we search for another way to compare them. Regardless of who won Miller got the edge on those matchups statswise. Give me a better metric in comparing these players then

Miller as the best player on his team got the most defensive attention while Ray allen wasnt even arguably the hardest player to guard on those bucks teams that also featured the high scoring duo of sam cassell and glen robinson. Miller was also Ray Allens primary defender so it also says a lot about the formers defensive ability

You bring up the head to head of players past their prime like duncan and kobe against griffin and durant? Naturally it wont be fair to the older players dont you think? Miller was put at the same disadvantage but he still came out on top

[plowking]

Statswise they were basically the same so we search for another way to compare them. Regardless of who won Miller got the edge on those matchups statswise. Give me a better metric in comparing these players then

Miller as the best player on his team got the most defensive attention while Ray allen wasnt even arguably the hardest player to guard on those bucks teams that also featured the high scoring duo of sam cassell and glen robinson. Miller was also Ray Allens primary defender so it also says a lot about the formers defensive ability

You bring up the head to head of players past their prime like duncan and kobe against griffin and durant? Naturally it wont be fair to the older players dont you think? Miller was put at the same disadvantage but he still came out on top

Their stats aren't the same. Allen's are better across the board.

Hes a better shooter, scorer, rebounder, passer, defender, ball handler, etc.

Even when he played the off the ball role that Miller did while at the Celtics, he put up those numbers on better efficiency.

[Reggie43]

Their stats aren't the same. Allen's are better across the board.

Hes a better shooter, scorer, rebounder, passer, defender, ball handler, etc.

Even when he played the off the ball role that Miller did while at the Celtics, he put up those numbers on better efficiency.

The least you could have done is look up the stats before claiming who was more efficient. Miller shot above 50% 4 times in his career, something Ray failed to do not even one time in his

Who do you think the better shooter/scorer is? the guy who shot 47% to get 18pts or the one with 19pts on 45%?

As I said before, Ray was merely 1 rebound and half an assist better. for someone thats supposed to be a better playmaker you should expect atleast much better results than a half an assist advantage.

I guess you dont remember Ray allen being considered a defensive liability by most before coming to boston? While Miller was being praised by none other than Jordan himself by being one of the peskiest defenders in the league.

[ThaRegul8r]

and ppl point out how clutch reggie is which he is but hes had a LOT of horrible moments that ppl just love to overlook as well

I find this odd when people arguing for Ray Allen say this, because it's as if Allen hasn't had horrible moments.

They act like Ray Allen wasn't the invisible man in 2008 before the Finals. He averaged 9.3 points on 32.7% shooting, 46.0% TS against Cleveland, and went 1-6 for 4 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist in the deciding Game 7. If Boston needed Allen to produce, they never would have made it to the Finals. If Miller sucked, the Pacers lost. Allen could suck and have a Hall of Fame teammate score 41 to bail him out. If the Celtics lose that series, Allen gets crucified. But since they won and Allen actually decided to show up in the Finals, the ring erases his previous suckage from everyone's memories.
I've seen people mention Allen's record 8-11 three-point shooting in Game 2 of the 2010 NBA Finals, yet neglect to mention than Allen immediately followed it by going 0-13, and shot 31.4% from the floor, 13.3% from three for the entire series excluding that one game. That was a horrible series, not one isolated moment. Game 2 was the aberration, and Games 1, 3-7 were the norm.
Everyone talked about Game 6 of the 2009 first round playoff matchup between the Boston Celtics and Chicago Bulls, in which Allen scored 51 points on 18-for-32 shooting from the floor, 9 of 18 from downtown in a 128-127 triple-overtime loss, but in the second round Allen proceeded to average 13.1 points on 34.4% shooting from the floor, 19.0% from beyond the arc and 45.2% TS.

No one ever mentions Allen's streakiness and disappearing acts. People have a guy and emphasize low moments of whomever their guy is pitted against while not saying a word about their chosen guy's low moments. People are prone to only telling one side of the story. I'd just like to see people who are prone to do this tell both sides, but I know that's too much to ask for on the internet.

[Boston C's]

I find this odd when people arguing for Ray Allen say this, because it's as if Allen hasn't had horrible moments.

They act like Ray Allen wasn't the invisible man in 2008 before the Finals. He averaged 9.3 points on 32.7% shooting, 46.0% TS against Cleveland, and went 1-6 for 4 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist in the deciding Game 7. If Boston needed Allen to produce, they never would have made it to the Finals. If Miller sucked, the Pacers lost. Allen could suck and have a Hall of Fame teammate score 41 to bail him out. If the Celtics lose that series, Allen gets crucified. But since they won and Allen actually decided to show up in the Finals, the ring erases his previous suckage from everyone's memories.
I've seen people mention Allen's record 8-11 three-point shooting in Game 2 of the 2010 NBA Finals, yet neglect to mention than Allen immediately followed it by going 0-13, and shot 31.4% from the floor, 13.3% from three for the entire series excluding that one game. That was a horrible series, not one isolated moment. Game 2 was the aberration, and Games 1, 3-7 were the norm.
Everyone talked about Game 6 of the 2009 first round playoff matchup between the Boston Celtics and Chicago Bulls, in which Allen scored 51 points on 18-for-32 shooting from the floor, 9 of 18 from downtown in a 128-127 triple-overtime loss, but in the second round Allen proceeded to average 13.1 points on 34.4% shooting from the floor, 19.0% from beyond the arc and 45.2% TS.

No one ever mentions Allen's streakiness and disappearing acts. People have a guy and emphasize low moments of whomever their guy is pitted against while not saying a word about their chosen guy's low moments. People are prone to only telling one side of the story. I'd just like to see people who are prone to do this tell both sides, but I know that's too much to ask for on the internet.

I'm not saying allen hasn't had any low moments...its just that ppl always seem to forget reggie did too...theres this perception that reggie never failed in crunch time

[Boston C's]

Reggie was a better post-season player.

Even though Ray Allen could do more and had greater abilities primarily with the ball, you were better off using Ray the same way Reggie Miller was used which was off the ball.

Reggie was a better off-ball player, so he is the better player to me.

stupid reasoning to say that someone is better because of one attribute that is highly questionable...allen was still better at every other facet of the game of basketball

[Boston C's]

Hate to do this again but all those advantages statswise that you gave ray allen are all minimal that its hardly worth a mention for most players. Ray Allen outrebounds him by a single rebound, leads him by half an assist and outscores him by a single point on a significantly lower percentage.

Reggie Miller constantly outplaying Ray Allen on head to head matchups throughout their careers regular season and playoffs stats wise and in terms of wins is a better indication of who the better players is in my opinion.

Ray has an advantage in offensive versatility and ballhandling while Millers edge is being a superior leader and more efficient scorer and intangibles. It all boils down to what skills do you value more in picking between the two.

In regards to his inability to create his own shot, Reggie Miller has a very underrated face up game with all the jab steps and stepbacks he does off the catch of the ball. He can certainly put the ball down the floor off the pumpfake going all the way to the rim or shooting a runner/floater. Reggie in his athletic prime dribbled the ball more and attacked the basket more frequently. I think he focused on his off the ball skills much more when he got older and on the arrival of mark jackson.

Reggie did have a lot of horrible moments in the playoffs but so did Ray so I dont know why you felt the need to mention it.

While I dont deny that Ray Allen is one of the best shooters ever its odd that a player of his caliber and superior athleticism and skills never shot over 50% in 17 years while many less heralded shooters have done it multiple times.

I have engaged in this argument a few times and it still bothers me when people overstate ones advantages over the other. To me this matchup is basically a wash and it all depends on a persons preferred style of play.

all of the things you mentioned about reggie I won't take away from you...sure when he was younger he may have had an underrated faceup game but honestly for anyone who has seriously watched basketball they know that ray allen could literally do everything better then reggie miller...you don't need stats to tell you that (even though they point it out) you would know that allen was a better ball handler....allen was a better rebounder, allen was a better scorer, etc...those things should be pretty much understood...now if you want to compare head to head matchups thats cool too but most of those matchups were with when ray was not even in his prime but a young rookie going against a prime reggie miller

[Boston C's]

FWIW, Ray Allen was never the #1 guy like Reggie was for his squad. Reggie Miller was the best player on a team that took Mj and the Bulls to a game 7....
we all know how rare that was.


you know ray allen was playing basketball before he got to boston right?

I mean I know seattle and milwaukee are small markets but damn

[Reggie43]

all of the things you mentioned about reggie I won't take away from you...sure when he was younger he may have had an underrated faceup game but honestly for anyone who has seriously watched basketball they know that ray allen could literally do everything better then reggie miller...you don't need stats to tell you that (even though they point it out) you would know that allen was a better ball handler....allen was a better rebounder, allen was a better scorer, etc...those things should be pretty much understood...now if you want to compare head to head matchups thats cool too but most of those matchups were with when ray was not even in his prime but a young rookie going against a prime reggie miller

In terms of scoring the ball I think efficiency matters and Reggie certainly did that better than Ray. It is what seperates the all time greats like Allen Iverson(43%) Kobe Bryant(45%) and Michael Jordan(50%) from each other.

Those head to head matchups mostly span from the ages of 21-27 for ray and 31-37 for miller which seems fair to me because while you contend that Miller played Allen as a rookie he also played Reggie way past his prime which evens it out. Some would even give the advantage to Allen because he was in his athletic prime as opposed to Miller who had a ton of milage by then

[HiphopRelated]

you know ray allen was playing basketball before he got to boston right?

I mean I know seattle and milwaukee are small markets but damn
especially since prime ray could score in the mid 20s

[Boston C's]

In terms of scoring the ball I think efficiency matters and Reggie certainly did that better than Ray. It is what seperates the all time greats like Allen Iverson(43%) Kobe Bryant(45%) and Michael Jordan(50%) from each other.

Those head to head matchups mostly span from the ages of 21-27 for ray and 31-37 for miller which seems fair to me because while you contend that Miller played Allen as a rookie he also played Reggie way past his prime which evens it out. Some would even give the advantage to Allen because he was in his athletic prime as opposed to Miller who had a ton of milage by then

I guess thats fair...but when the matchups start hitting in the yr 2000 and upward Allen seems to have an advantage over reggie...and the overall numbers when you look at it are pretty even with reggie scoring a bit more and allen assisting and rebounding a bit more

[Electric Slide]

stupid reasoning to say that someone is better because of one attribute that is highly questionable...allen was still better at every other facet of the game of basketball
Seeing that you were better off not having Ray do any of those things, I don't see why those skills are even relevant.

Reggie was a better off-ball player pretty easily and he was easily a better playoff performer. Ray was a massive underachiever as a playoff performer in Boston which was his best years of winning a title.

[secund2nun]

Ray easily. Reggie gets overrated.

[Goldrush25]

Now that I think about it, I don't know one area of the game in which Reggie Miller is superior to Ray Allen.

[vinsanity2756]

I'd pick reggie. I've seen them both play from the mid 90's through 2000 and so on. Imo reggie was a bit smarter than ray, coming off screens. He could mislead the defense like a boss. Reggie Miller is the most clutch players I have ever seen, especially in the playoffs. I admit ray allen was more athletic in his bucks and sonics days, but the level of play in the playoffs is the difference to me. Reggie got in the head of opponents, he had that killer instinct like MJ. Ray never really was a trash talker, he hit his share of clutch shots though (and he probably will hit a couple more when it's all said and done) but mentally I give reggie a huge edge.

[Boston C's]

Seeing that you were better off not having Ray do any of those things, I don't see why those skills are even relevant.

Reggie was a better off-ball player pretty easily and he was easily a better playoff performer. Ray was a massive underachiever as a playoff performer in Boston which was his best years of winning a title.

While thats partly true you forget to look at the yrs he was in the playoffs with the bucks and sonics...ray ALWAYS raised his game and theres no denying that but I'm not surprised you didn't know that seeing as some ppl here didn't know ray played basketball before he was on the celtics :lol

and even in boston ray has played well in some of the playoffs he was on Boston...hes had many memorable games (51 points, nba finals record for most 3's in a game/series, had a great 08 finals, many gamewinners, etc)

and in his prime ray was doing everything...hell he ran point for most of the yr in 2004 with seattle for crying out loud...the pacers wouldn't ever think of asking reggie to run point

[SilkkTheShocker]

Im going with Reggie. He had a lot more success as the man of his teams. But its hilarious seeing Jordan homers prop up Reggie so much :oldlol:

[Boston C's]

Now that I think about it, I don't know one area of the game in which Reggie Miller is superior to Ray Allen.

this/thread

if ppl wanna use reggies intangibles that greatly then we might as well put him above guys like joe dumars, sam jones, sidney moncrief, hell freakin put him above george gervin too while were at it

think of it this way...you put reggie against tracy mcgrady or grant hill and in terms of careers you would say reggie is better...but nobody in their right mind would take reggie over tracy or hill as players

this comparison between reggie and ray is worse because not only does ray have the better career but he also was a better player then reggie as well

[Boston C's]

Im going with Reggie. He had a lot more success as the man of his teams. But its hilarious seeing Jordan homers prop up Reggie so much :oldlol:

he had a lot more success as the man of his team then a guy like paul pierce...would you put him ahead of him too?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Now that I think about it, I don't know one area of the game in which Reggie Miller is superior to Ray Allen.

You're probably right. But I don't think the Pacers advance as far in the playoffs if you replaced Reggie with Ray. Reggie just had an edge to him. Ray is a competitor with an amazing work ethic. But Reggie slit your throat for the sake of winning.

[SilkkTheShocker]

he had a lot more success as the man of his team then a guy like paul pierce...would you put him ahead of him too?

Both were more talented players, but Reggie's teams just won. Pierce's biggest moment before the Big 3 coming together was a ECF run when the east was incredibly weak. Reggie played on some deep teams but he never had a running mate as good as any of Boston's Big 3. He clearly did the most with the least.

[Boston C's]

Both were more talented players, but Reggie's teams just won. Pierce's biggest moment before the Big 3 coming together was a ECF run when the east was incredibly weak. Reggie played on some deep teams but he never had a running mate as good as any of Boston's Big 3. He clearly did the most with the least.

I guess we both have a different way of ranking players...nothing wrong with it

however...the rosters Allen and pierce played with before the big 3 era weren't very good...neither of them ever played with a competent big man before K.G (who is great obviously)

[SilkkTheShocker]

I guess we both have a different way of ranking players...nothing wrong with it

however...the rosters Allen and pierce played with before the big 3 era weren't very good...neither of them ever played with a competent big man before K.G (who is great obviously)
Reggie is a hard player to really judge. I'm not saying I would definitely take him over Pierce/Allen. But at the same time I couldn't fault them for doing it. I'm far from a fan of arguing intangibles. I think it's a cheap way to prop up players. Kind how people will argue stupid things like "pure scorer" for Melo. But for Reggie I think it applies.

[Boston C's]

Reggie is a hard player to really judge. I'm not saying I would definitely take him over Pierce/Allen. But at the same time I couldn't fault them for doing it. I'm far from a fan of arguing intangibles. I think it's a cheap way to prop up players. Kind how people will argue stupid things like "pure scorer" for Melo. But for Reggie I think it applies.

I hear you and the melo example is a good one too...as long as were on the same page that allen and pierce were more talented basketball players then reggie then I'm cool with the assessment

[SilkkTheShocker]

I hear you and the melo example is a good one too...as long as were on the same page that allen and pierce were more talented basketball players then reggie then I'm cool with the assessment
Agreed for sure. :cheers:

[Boston C's]

Agreed for sure. :cheers:

:cheers:

[Stringer Bell]

Ray.

Just better all-around, more skills.

[pauk]

Ray.

Just better all-around, more skills.

So? It sure wasnt something significant that allowed him to dominate better than Reggie........ Even Tyreke Evans was better all-round than Reggie, "more skills".... Reggie didnt have many weapons, but he had a HUGE one, so huge that it allowed him to impact the outcome of the game more successfully & dramatically than Ray.... that weapon of his was clutchness/killer instinct, IQ, shooting, competitiveness and making his opponents break down mentally... Ray as the man of his team was nowhere near as impactful as Reggie was in same scenario (his entire career almost), he always was the starter and ALWAYS the go-to-guy in the 4th quarter DEMANDING the ball, even if Lebron James / Dwyane Wade was on that team, he would let them have their fun for 3 quarter and then it was "Miller Time" and the way he would deliver Lebron/Wade wouldnt mind that at all unless their ego stood in their way.... and most importantly he wanted to stay with his team his entire career, turning down opportunities to get a ring a la Ray Allen being a 3rd fiddle or benchwarmer....

[Stringer Bell]

Ray was better than Reggie in almost every aspect of the game, and had a bigger impact. Better defensive player (his D on Kobe during his game 7 brick-a-thon was excellent), ball handler, driver, passer, etc...

For a big shot late in the game: Reggie
For the other 47 minutes: Ray

Reggie gets overrated because he came up big against the Knicks, a big name team because it's in New York. I enjoyed the hell out of watching him sh*t on the Knicks, but he was not a better player than Allen.

[TheOne]

Miller is taller than Allen, that's the only advantage he has over Allen. Ray any day.

[Lebron23]

Give me Ray Allen

[TheGoatest]

2000-2010 Ray Allen is easily better than 1990-2000 Reggie Miller.
He could score in all the ways that Reggie could, plus drive to the basket and create his own shot way better.
And while not exactly being an all-rounder himself, Ray's all-round game was better than Reggie's extremely scoring-based game.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Ray Ray

[ShawkFactory]

Reggie seems to be one of those guys who history is being less kind to.

Ray was the better player though.

[TheGoatest]

Reggie seems to be one of those guys who history is being less kind to.


It's actually completely the opposite.
During his own time, he only made 3 All-NBA 3rd teams and never ranked higher than 13th in MVP voting.
But flash forward a couple of decades, and for some reason he's on the NBA's 75 greatest players team over a guy with 5 All-NBA first teams and 3 DPOY awards.

[Axe]

Apparently reggie miller hasn't won anything in the so-called watered-down era. :confusedshrug:

[MadDogg]

Ray is probably considered greater, but I would take Reggie against certain defenses and in most playoff series.

[Lebron23]

Ray Alllen not only he is a 2 nba champion, but also a better franchise player than miller.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I'm 50, and watched most of both of their careers. Reggie was the 2nd best 2 guard all through the 90's IMO, and a cold blodded Mofo.
Ray's career was better, and up until the last couple of years listening to Reggie SLURP on Lebron every 5 seconds, I respected Reggie more.

Let's not forget Ray-Ray really stinking up the joint in the 2010 finals. Dude couldn't hit a shot to save his life. But his 2013 series winner made people forget.

Remember: without a single basket made by Ray, Lebron is 2/9 in the finals (most of us old heads don't count the bubble scrimmage - no travel, no fans etc.)

[Lebron23]

I'm 50, and watched most of both of their careers. Reggie was the 2nd best 2 guard all through the 90's IMO, and a cold blodded Mofo.
Ray's career was better, and up until the last couple of years listening to Reggie SLURP on Lebron every 5 seconds, I respected Reggie more.

Let's not forget Ray-Ray really stinking up the joint in the 2010 finals. Dude couldn't hit a shot to save his life. But his 2013 series winner made people forget.

Remember: without a single basket made by Ray, Lebron is 2/9 in the finals (most of us old heads don't count the bubble scrimmage - no travel, no fans etc.)

You waste your time posting that stuff

[Baller234]

Give me Reggie.

Ray technically had a more complete game but the gap isn't big enough to the point where I can just ignore Reggie's intangibles. It's not like Ray was so good he could lead a championship team by himself.

Reggie could do close to 90% of what Allen could do but he shoots just as well. That in addition to being a total fukking killer. Any great team that Ray was on is probably improved by replacing him with Reggie, especially if there is another star player on the court who can take some attention away from Reggie.

"Miller Time" wasn't just a beer slogan.

[FultzNationRISE]

It’s tough to say because Ray had the Lebron Advantage, either playing against him (which increases motivation and adrenaline) or playing with him (which naturally elevates and maximizes one’s skill set).

Meanwhile Reggie played in an era where ‘the guy’ might decide to play one year, another year he might not, and the whole decade was watered down by expansion anyway. So it wasnt an environment that brings out a player’s absolute best.

So all things considered I think you have to simply reject the premise that the two of them can be compared. It’s really apples and oranges.

[dankok8]

Reggie was better in the playoffs. Not like it's a big advantage of anything but I'd go Reggie without thinking that hard.

[L.Kizzle]

Reggie was better in the playoffs. Not like it's a big advantage of anything but I'd go Reggie without thinking that hard.
Ray playoff career high is 51, Reggie is 41.
You would think Reggie high would be against his nemesis NY.

[Reggie43]

Ray's playoff average is 16.1ppg, Reggie is at 20.6ppg
Reggie's high was against the Bucks, beating Prime Ray Allen in the deciding game to win the series.

[1987_Lakers]

Ray's playoff average is 16.1ppg, Reggie is at 20.6ppg.

This isn't really fair. Ray played a bunch of playoff games when he was out of his prime and/or not his team's #1 option. He averaged 25 ppg in the playoffs before he joined Boston.

[L.Kizzle]

Ray's playoff average is 16.1ppg, Reggie is at 20.6ppg
Reggie's high was against the Bucks, beating Prime Ray Allen in the deciding game to win the series.
The Bucks were the 8th seed. That was actually Ray's first All-Star season and Reggies last.

[L.Kizzle]

Ray's playoff average is 16.1ppg, Reggie is at 20.6ppg
Reggie's high was against the Bucks, beating Prime Ray Allen in the deciding game to win the series.

Thats actually a good measuring stick.
2000 Playoffs
#1Pacers vs #8 Bucks. Pacers win 3 games to 2.

Reggie avg 24/2/2 on 46%fg and 28% 3 point and 87% FT
Ray avg 22/7/3 on 44%fg and 38% 3 point and 90% FT

[Reggie43]

Not really trying to prove anything in my last post because I personally think the comparison is a matter of preference where could pick one over the other because they are the same level of players

[L.Kizzle]

Oh wow, the played in 99 too.
Pacers sweep 3-0

Reggie - 26/3/2 on 36% FG (yikes) 28% 3 pointer and 93% FT
Ray - 22/7/4 on 53% FG, 47% 3 pointer and 61% FT

[1987_Lakers]

Not really trying to prove anything in my last post because I personally think the comparison is a matter of preference where could pick one over the other because they are the same level of players

Pretty much, even though I thought Ray was a better all-around player. But Reggie's classic playoff performances/moments is the reason why he will be remembered more by fans.