Can we all just agree Lebron IS NOT clutch?

[WeGetRing2012]

He is a great players with great talents but he does not have what it takes to will his team to a championship.

[chairman]

He is a great players with great talents but he does not have what it takes to will his team to a championship.
Yes we can clearly he is not clutch in close games haha according to Pauk he is only clutch when the heat are up ten lmaooooooo :lol :applause:

[Batz]

Well, ****.

[heyhey]

in b4 pauk post bunch of meaningless numbers

[webberz0044]

I think we all agreed on this subject years ago.

[tmacattack33]

So...are you saying that being clutch in the second round matters now?

If so, Lebron was clutch against Boston in the second over the course of basically the whole series.

So I guess he's clutch? Or does one game triumph a whole series just because you want it to be like that?

[Tenchi Ryu]

So...are you saying that being clutch in the second round matters now?


Um....yes?
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[SwayDizzle]

What is wrong with him? Take the damn shot, you're meant to be the best player. Guess not.....Lawdbe anyone?

[Nash]

Um....yes?
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
Ummmm.. so are we going to give him credit for the clutch plays against Boston and Chicago last season? Be consistent at least.

[Noob Saibot]

yea mayne, Bron lacks the clutch gene, but so does 95% of the league! :lol

[WeGetRing2012]

So...are you saying that being clutch in the second round matters now?

If so, Lebron was clutch against Boston in the second over the course of basically the whole series.

So I guess he's clutch? Or does one game triumph a whole series just because you want it to be like that?

No he's not clutch. He disappears when it matters most. He was awful in the Finals when his team had the ability to win. He is a front runner when his back gets against the wall he disappears. That is a pattern.

[WeGetRing2012]

yea mayne, Bron lacks the clutch gene, but so does 95% of the league! :lol

Not the great ones. So Bron is like 95% of the league cool...

[bdreason]

He's not clutch. I don't really need to see anymore.

[tmacman]

Runs down the clock, ad passes it to Wade with 5 seconds remaining. :roll: :roll: Typical LeBrick.

[WeGetRing2012]

Ummmm.. so are we going to give him credit for the clutch plays against Boston and Chicago last season? Be consistent at least.

He is a front runner. There was no pressure on him in those series. What did he do in the Finals? The great ones play great to the end and win rings.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Ummmm.. so are we going to give him credit for the clutch plays against Boston and Chicago last season? Be consistent at least.
I've never gave him credit as being clutch. How many times have we debated and I've said Lebron had more of luck than clutch with those hail mary threes. Same shots weren't falling at all in Dallas.

[Collie]

The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.

[Gear2]

Ummmm.. so are we going to give him credit for the clutch plays against Boston and Chicago last season? Be consistent at least.

Of course he gets credit. But since he's joined the heat, he has had far more unclutch moments as opposed to clutch ones. He was unclutch all of last regular season, which--over the course of several months--began to severely alter the general perception of his "clutchness." He BEGAN to silence those haters during his brilliant Boston and Chicago crunch time plays, but failed to solidify it by playing abysmally unclutch in the NBA Finals. Thus, you could say that cumulatively his season last year (regular and post season) was overall unclutch.

Coming off of that into this season, I think he's only had a handful (the new jersey game...I can't remember anymore off the top of my head) of clutch plays in the regular season games, but he has had a fair amount of not wanting to participate at all in the final few seconds of the game (all star game comes to mind). Wade has been delegating the clutch all season, and this game continues to perpetuate his overall unclutch image whilst on the Heat.

[WeGetRing2012]

The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.

Exactly. Thats been consistent throughout his career. The pressure is too much for him.

[StateOfMind12]

The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.
Pretty much this, he just has a front-running mentality. It is something I hope that he figures out and fixes at some point but it doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon.

[Noob Saibot]

The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.

^i feel ya, could rep you if i could. Screw deferring to your boyfriend Wade in the 4th Bron, especially if he is laying up bricks.

[Bigsmoke]

LeBron and Bosh >>> LeBron and Wade

[RaininTwos]

The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.

This would make sense if I had never seen Lebron play.:facepalm

[WeGetRing2012]

This would make sense if I had never seen Lebron play.:facepalm

We've all seen Lebron play. Its true and the main reason he doesn't have a ring. If you are telling yourself differently you're just lying to yourself. Did you not see the Finals & Boston in 2010.

[jlip]

We've all seen Lebron play. Its true and the main reason he doesn't have a ring. If you are telling yourself differently you're just lying to yourself. Did you not see the Finals & Boston in 2010.

2011 Finals I'll give you. But for all of the "quitting" storylines even Lebron's biggest critic has to realize that the 2010 Celtics were a better and far more talented team in every way than the 2010 Cavs. After Lebron the next 4 best players in the series played for the Celtics.

[OriginalNameGuy]

He is a front runner. There was no pressure on him in those series. What did he do in the Finals? The great ones play great to the end and win rings.
So your answer was no? Just admit you don't want to give him credit and stop dancing around the issue.

[WeGetRing2012]

2011 Finals I'll give you. But for all of the "quitting" storylines even Lebron's biggest critic has to realize that the 2010 Celtics were a better and far more talented team in every way than the 2010 Cavs. After Lebron the next 4 best players in the series played for the Celtics.

He doesn't get a pass because he was SOOOO bad he played a AWFUL pivotal game 5 (15 points :facepalm ) and was bad in game 6. He went down without a fight just like he did in the Finals.

[WeGetRing2012]

So your answer was no? Just admit you don't want to give him credit and stop dancing around the issue.

I'll give him credit when plays well when the pressure is on. Why would he get credit for doing what he's suppose to do? He's suppose to be great right?

[CavaliersFTW]

2011 Finals I'll give you. But for all of the "quitting" storylines even Lebron's biggest critic has to realize that the 2010 Celtics were a better and far more talented team in every way than the 2010 Cavs. After Lebron the next 4 best players in the series played for the Celtics.
LMFAO He flat out quit before the do-or-die game was even over in 2010. He has the mental fortitude of a coward. I notice a funny pattern when I watch the games of the other NBA legends that got ousted periodically throughout their careers. They never quit at any point no matter what adversity they are facing. LeQuit broke the mold. He's the greatest player to ever quit in the playoffs. :applause: there's a new accolade the NBA should create to add to his ringless awards.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I think we all agreed on this subject years ago.

this. hes a great player, but unclutch. and clutch means alot.

[jlip]

He doesn't get a pass because he was SOOOO bad he played a AWFUL pivotal game 5 (15 points :facepalm ) and was bad in game 6. He went down without a fight just like he did in the Finals.

No one is giving him a pass. It's your specific argument that I'm disagreeing with. The point is you are claiming that his performance or lack of clutch play is the reason he doesn't have a ring, and you cited the 2010 ECSF against the Celtics as an example. No amount of "clutch" play from Lebron alone was going to help the Cavs overcome the talent gap in a 7 game series against the 2010 Celtics. Also, I love how every game Lebron doesn't play well in or loses all of a sudden becomes so "pivotal" and/ or so "important". The games he plays well in are relegated to meaningless "front running" performances.

[Lamar Odumbb]

To be clutch, you have to be cold blooded. I noticed Lebron likes to chew on his nails on the bench, which means he is a nervous person. You can't be scared of the moment but Lebron is like the cowardly Lion in the clutch.

[BlueandGold]

To be clutch, you have to be cold blooded. I noticed Lebron likes to chew on his nails on the bench, which means he is a nervous person. You can't be scared of the moment but Lebron is like the cowardly Lion in the clutch.
That point is moot but I do agree with everything else you said besides the finger nail biting part. I bite my finger nails, I'm a little anxious sometimes and while I'm not going to say that I have the ability to be cold blooded Larry Bird definitely does both as well and he's as much as a sure-thing in the clutch than anyone that I've seen.

With Lebron it's more than just the finger nail biting. It's all the extra stuff. All the talk and no backing it up. All the goofing off, all the "buddy-buddy" type antics with his "fellow superstars" around the league. Those aren't your fellow superstars that's your "main competition" as Bird spoke about Magic.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron was Gassed and Shook after missing 2 Fts and than having Shot Blocked By Goerge. Down 2 He passes to Wade instead of attacking rim was Bad and than Being a Decoy letting Chalmers jack up contested last shot when he has done nothing productive all was Inexcusable. I said this after loss to Knicks The games that come down the stretch are still a problem with Heat cause Lebron Dominates Ball All game long than wants nothing to do with it when it matter most and Other are expected to bail him out.. Doesn't work that way Lebron U won MVP act like it and Demand the ball and Shots in those closing situations. 2 Playoff Losses Both times Lebron doesnt even have Anything to do with last play. :wtf: :confusedshrug:

[jlip]

LMFAO He flat out quit before the do-or-die game was even over in 2010. He has the mental fortitude of a coward. I notice a funny pattern when I watch the games of the other NBA legends that got ousted periodically throughout their careers. They never quit at any point no matter what adversity they are facing. LeQuit broke the mold. He's the greatest player to ever quit in the playoffs. :applause: there's a new accolade the NBA should create to add to his ringless awards.

Are you sure about that? I can bring up two clear examples of consensus top 10 players who were accused of quitting on their teams in the playoffs. And I don't want to hear..."Oh they were underdogs and not supposed to win anyways." The point is when adversity hit, they didn't give their all and had people watching from fans to commentators wondering if they were quitting on their teammates.

MJ- 1989 Game 5 vs Pistons where he took only 8 shots after averaging over 24 shot attempts for the series. Go back, watch the game, and listen to the commentators criticize his apathy and lack of aggressiveness.

Kobe Bryant- 2006 First round against the Suns Game 7 when he took 3 shots in the 2nd half. This was the very season he lit the Mavs up for 62 in 3 quarters and had 50 if memory serves me correctly against this very Suns team earlier in the series.

Multiple championships later, those moments are forgotten by the casual fan. I don't condone or make excuses for when a player doesn't give their all, but let's not act as if Lebron is the only one as you implied in your statement.

[WeGetRing2012]

Are you sure about that? I can bring up two clear examples of consensus top 10 players who were accused of quitting on their teams in the playoffs. And I don't want to hear..."Oh they were underdogs and not supposed to win anyways." The point is when adversity hit, they didn't give their all and had people watching from fans to commentators wondering if they were quitting on their teammates.

MJ- 1989 Game 5 vs Pistons where he took only 8 shots after averaging over 24 shot attempts for the series. Go back, watch the game, and listen to the commentators criticize his apathy and lack of aggressiveness.

Kobe Bryant- 2006 First round against the Suns Game 7 when he took 3 shots in the 2nd half. This was the very season he lit the Mavs up for 62 in 3 quarters and had 50 if memory serves me correctly against this very Suns team earlier in the series.

Multiple championships later, those moments are forgotten by the casual fan. I don't condone or make excuses for when a player doesn't give their all, but let's not act as if Lebron is the only one as you implied in your statement.

:lol :lol :lol

Kobe quit in 2006? He was the reason we were up 3-1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACZnF87Iy84

This is of Kobe's BEST clutch moments. He put up 50 in game 6 how is that quitting?????????? GTFOH........

Why do Lebron fans do this? Like they try to pull some crazy stat or game from Kobe & Jordan's past to justify all of his flaws. These guys are some of the most cold blooded players & have 5 & 6 rings no comparison.....

[Indian guy]

I'm always amused that people who are most vocal about LeBron's late-game issues are also the most convinced that he's the best. Make up your mind, if he's a 'choker', how is he the best? How can any player with an average jumper & nonexistent acceleration/explosiveness off-the-dribble be the best?

[D.J.]

The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.


This. He doesn't have that killer instinct that guys like MJ, Bird, or Kobe had/have.

[tpols]

I'm always amused that people who are most vocal about LeBron's late-game issues are also the most convinced that he's the best. Make up your mind, if he's a 'choker', how is he the best? How can any player with an average jumper & nonexistent acceleration/explosiveness off-the-dribble be the best?
Before the last 3 minutes he had 28/5+5+. He's the best.. before the pressure comes.

[LakersReign]

He is a great players with great talents but he does not have what it takes to will his team to a championship.

Lebron was never clutch, and now that we're getting beyond his hype, we see that more clearly now. Just a few days ago, people were talking about how "clutch" he was in Game 1, scoring in the 4th. I said it then, as I'm saying it now. Lebron only does that when there's no pressure involved. Nothing on the line, he can beast. But put him in a pressure situation, he folds. Dude doesn't even want to attempt to shoot the ball in a close game. I've been saying, let's see how he does in a close game, and if he performs under pressure, then we can say he took his game to another level. Therefore erasing his Finals disappearance. But he does as expected, folds under pressure. Big surprise.:sleeping

[jlip]

:lol :lol :lol

Kobe quit in 2006? He was the reason we were up 3-1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACZnF87Iy84

This is of Kobe's BEST clutch moments. He put up 50 in game 6 how is that quitting?????????? GTFOH........

Why do Lebron fans do this? Like they try to pull some crazy stat or game from Kobe & Jordan's past to justify all of his flaws. These guys are some of the most cold blooded players & have 5 & 6 rings no comparison.....

#1 I'm not a Lebron fan. I'm just not a hater.
#2 You can't be serious. Did you even read the post? I said...


Kobe Bryant- 2006 First round against the Suns Game 7 when he took 3 shots in the 2nd half.

Then you ignorantly mention game 6 as proof that Kobe didn't quit in game 7. For real? Just please stop. BTW...In case you didn't notice I already mentioned the 50pt game. But it's obvious that you didn't read.

Next if you understand the concept of context you would recognize that I only brought up MJ and Kobe because I was responding to a poster that had just said:


I notice a funny pattern when I watch the games of the other NBA legends that got ousted periodically throughout their careers. They never quit at any point no matter what adversity they are facing.

I wasn't randomly pulling up
some crazy stat or game from Kobe & Jordan's past to justify all of his flaws. I was addressing past legends who had done what the poster just said they had not done.

Finally, you bring up the fact that those other legends are multiple title winners. In my post I already said:



Multiple championships later, those moments are forgotten by the casual fan.

I already stated that they had won many titles. So in effect your reply here was a prime example of either an unwillingness to read or an inability to comprehend. It was also pointless considering the fact that you basically repeated some of the very things I already said.

[Simple Jack]

He is a front runner. There was no pressure on him in those series. What did he do in the Finals? The great ones play great to the end and win rings.

No pressure in the Bulls series being down 1-0 with PLENTY of people saying Bulls would beat them? Revisionist history at its finest.

[D.J.]

No pressure in the Bulls series being down 1-0 with PLENTY of people saying Bulls would beat them? Revisionist history at its finest.


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OeoPvMuMGPg/0.jpg

[jlip]

No pressure in the Bulls series being down 1-0 with PLENTY of people saying Bulls would beat them? Revisionist history at its finest.

Haven't you heard? Lebron has never led a comeback in his life. Every shot he's hit in the 4th quarter his team was already up by 30 and leading the series 3-0.

[Simple Jack]

LMFAO He flat out quit before the do-or-die game was even over in 2010. He has the mental fortitude of a coward. I notice a funny pattern when I watch the games of the other NBA legends that got ousted periodically throughout their careers. They never quit at any point no matter what adversity they are facing. LeQuit broke the mold. He's the greatest player to ever quit in the playoffs. :applause: there's a new accolade the NBA should create to add to his ringless awards.

Cleveland fans really look like retards supporting this guy, acting like he was Jesus reincarnated for 7 years, only to completely change their opinions (on his skill, impact, clutchness, mental fortitude, etc...) the moment he decided to switch teams. I generally like yours and RBA's posts for the most part, but when it comes to Bron, it's quite hilarious putting in perspective the shit you guys say.

[Tenchi Ryu]

No pressure in the Bulls series being down 1-0 with PLENTY of people saying Bulls would beat them? Revisionist history at its finest.
Too bad a MAJOR portion of that comeback is currently injured and out indefinitely. Just so happens the game were it WAS the Lebron/Wade show was the game they got blown out.

[WeGetRing2012]

No pressure in the Bulls series being down 1-0 with PLENTY of people saying Bulls would beat them? Revisionist history at its finest.

Yeah. They were going up against an inexperienced team who couldn't close out games and they didn't have a consistent 2nd scoring option. Thus, the Bulls didn't really put pressure on the Heat.

[LakersReign]

:lol :lol :lol

Kobe quit in 2006? He was the reason we were up 3-1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACZnF87Iy84

This is of Kobe's BEST clutch moments. He put up 50 in game 6 how is that quitting?????????? GTFOH........

Why do Lebron fans do this? Like they try to pull some crazy stat or game from Kobe & Jordan's past to justify all of his flaws. These guys are some of the most cold blooded players & have 5 & 6 rings no comparison.....

It's cuz they lack not only the common sense to know when they already lost an argument. But they also lack the basketball knowledge to come up with a coherent defense for Lebron's obvious flaws. They fail to understand that trying to make somebody better than Lebron look bad, in order to try and make Lebron look good, just makes them look foolish. Grasping at straws, trying to preserve a lost argument.


The problem with Lebron is that he doesn't step up in the FACE of adversity. When things are getting going (Like Boston and Chicago), he does fine. But the minute his jumper doesn't fall, or the other team is gritty enough to keep it close, he wilts. He doesn't have an extra gear.

It's like the school bully who abuses guys (Boston and Chicago), but when somebody punches him in the nose, he suddenly backs off.

That's the same thing I'm saying, but remember now, Lebron's supposed to be the best of the best of the best.:facepalm

[Simple Jack]

Yeah. They were going up against an inexperienced team who couldn't close out games and they didn't have a consistent 2nd scoring option. Thus, the Bulls didn't really put pressure on the Heat.

According to who? The people who voted Rose MVP and were picking the 1st seed in the East to continue their success into the playoffs and beat Miami with their HCA? It's easy to state this shit after the fact but during that series, specifically after game 1, there was PLENTY of pressure on Miami, in particular LeBron.

^LakersReign off his medicine again...

[Alamo]

Yes, Lebron isn't clutch. We already know this.

[Rysio]

he's clutch but mostly when he's the underdog. dude hates pressure.

[WeGetRing2012]

According to who? The people who voted Rose MVP and were picking the 1st seed in the East to continue their success into the playoffs and beat Miami with their HCA? It's easy to state this shit after the fact but during that series, specifically after game 1, there was PLENTY of pressure on Miami, in particular LeBron.

^LakersReign off his medicine again...

Im not talking about who were favorites to win the series. The Heat's back were never against the wall during the series.

[Simple Jack]

Im not talking about who were favorites to win the series. The Heat's back were never against the wall during the series.

:roll: :roll:

What, they need to be down 3-1, and overcome a 20 point deficit in the 4th before it's considered real pressure?

Orlando game 5 in 09, with one of the most brilliant 4th quarters in recent memory conveniently forgotten as well?

[Indian guy]

before the pressure comes.

Again, how is a player who supposedly can't handle the pressure the 'best'?

[LakersReign]

Lebron was Gassed and Shook after missing 2 Fts and than having Shot Blocked By Goerge. Down 2 He passes to Wade instead of attacking rim was Bad and than Being a Decoy letting Chalmers jack up contested last shot when he has done nothing productive all was Inexcusable. I said this after loss to Knicks The games that come down the stretch are still a problem with Heat cause Lebron Dominates Ball All game long than wants nothing to do with it when it matter most and Other are expected to bail him out.. Doesn't work that way Lebron U won MVP act like it and Demand the ball and Shots in those closing situations. 2 Playoff Losses Both times Lebron doesnt even have Anything to do with last play. :wtf: :confusedshrug:


That's your boy Lebron....the 3 time MVP.:sleeping

[ihoopallday]

Again, how is a player who supposedly can't handle the pressure the 'best'?

No point in arguing with these biased posters. It's clear who the LeBron haters are. If you don't like someone, why spend so much energy bringing them up. Just doesn't make sense.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Gotta agree with Shaq and Kenny

"Go with what you know"

[LBJMVP]

Gotta agree with Shaq and Kenny

"Go with what you know"


good points about how the play was broken and lebron still passed to wade. :lol

[DMAVS41]

At this point there are just too many examples and mounting evidence that Lebron can only front run late in tight games. Yea, he may score a lot in the 4th qtrs....but in this really tight games that his team is down or tied...he just hasn't had it since the 2010 playoffs.

I've always defended Lebron because he still does take way too much criticism, but these games are starting to pile up and pile up.

The Pacers really could win this series now. And Lebron absolutely choked his ass off yet again in a big playoff moment. Ouch for Heat....

[Kujo]

Yes, especially in the playoffs, when it really matters.

Skip Bayless is going to have a field day on First Take tomorrow. :lol

[tpols]

Again, how is a player who supposedly can't handle the pressure the 'best'?
What do you mean? Is the last 2 minutes of every game the whole game? Lebron has buried teams with GREAT play a million times to the point where there were no clutch stats. Thats why he's great. But for the small percentage of times where the pressure was on he choked. That doesnt take away his earlier dominance.:confusedshrug:

But it does give people something big to pick at.. it's obviously not everything though.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Yes, especially in the playoffs, when it really matters.

Skip Bayless is going to have a field day on First Take tomorrow. :lol
Just set my DVR to record too
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Indian guy]

What do you mean? Is the last 2 minutes of every game the whole game?

Wait, I thought it was 4th qtr where LeBron didn't show up? Now it's just the last 2 minutes? So the prior 10 minutes of the 4th qtr were pressure-free?

Make up your mind.

[tpols]

Wait, I thought it was 4th qtr where LeBron didn't show up? Now it's just the last 2 minutes? So the prior 10 minutes of the 4th qtr were pressure-free?

Make up your mind.
Lebron was fine today up until the lat 2-3 minutes. Had like 8 points in 8 minutes. Dont know where youre going with this.:confusedshrug:

[Indian guy]

he just hasn't had it since the 2010 playoffs.

Umm, how did he choke in the '10 playoffs? The games Cleveland lost weren't really competitive.

[lbj23clutch]

Cleveland LeBron was a beast in the clutch. He's been pathetic in clutch situations in Miami though. Part of this is he can't take his man off the dribble as effectively these days. He relies too much on his jump shot now and when it's not falling he loses confidence and turns it off.




For instance in game 1 he hit some pretty big baskets in the 4th, with the majority of it being on mid range jumpers. Unfortunately for LeBron his jump shot is way too streaky for him to consistently rely on it during crunch time.




As an MVP player and Miami's best player he has to stay aggressive, even if his jumper is not falling in the 4th. Just look at what Wade did in the 4th tonight. I believe he missed the last 4 shots, but it didn't phase him one bit and he just continued to be aggressive. LeBron needs to take that approach. Guys like Kobe or CP3, have that similar approach Wade has. Those guys are killers in crunch time. They don't think about the consequences of failing in the 4th, instead their in for the glory of coming through for their team.

[Doranku]

:roll: :roll:

What, they need to be down 3-1, and overcome a 20 point deficit in the 4th before it's considered real pressure?

Orlando game 5 in 09, with one of the most brilliant 4th quarters in recent memory conveniently forgotten as well?

Wait. Wait. Wait.

wat

LeBron had 4 TOs in that quarter. :roll: And 3 more in overtime!!!

And he shot 2-5 in the quarter???

This is brilliance? :roll:

[LBJMVP]

Umm, how did he choke in the '10 playoffs? The games Cleveland lost weren't really competitive.


games 5 and 6

game five was the lebacle and was a huge deal for how badly and passively he played.

then in game 6 and stat padded the whole time, but had tons of turnovers and on offense he was just stand around the perimeter and do nothing if he didnt have the ball. and on defense he didnt really do anything.

game 6 was more if a game where he just quit. i remember the game was still within reach at the end and lebron dribbled out a lot of the time and then while mike brown was yelling for him to foul, no one would do and they just let the time run down.

[Indian guy]

Dont know where youre going with this.:confusedshrug:

The rap on LeBron is he doesn't show up in the 4th qtr. How did you reduce that number to just the last 2-3 minutes? Does that mean he's the best the first 8-10 minutes of the 4th qtr too?

[Rysio]

Wait. Wait. Wait.

wat

LeBron had 4 TOs in that quarter. :roll: And 3 more in overtime!!!

And he shot 2-5 in the quarter???

This is brilliance? :roll:
:lol

[DMAVS41]

Umm, how did he choke in the '10 playoffs? The games Cleveland lost weren't really competitive.

Game 5? ROFL.....

The swing game of the series? Biggest game of the year and he no shows. You know I've defended Lebron, but this is getting out of hand. He's been a choker since that game 5 in 2010. Before then he was great in clutch situations. Since then he's been very poor....

Just the facts mate. I know it sucks because its your team/player, but you can't deny the facts.

He cost his team a title last year and this game might have cost them a shot at one this year.

Do people not understand that the Pacers are good and now have home court against a Heat team without Bosh? This was a huge game and Lebron flat out choked yet again.

Not a good look for a 3 time MVP.

I'll say the same thing I said last year. You simply can't be the best player in the league if you aren't capable of being the best player on a team that wins the title.

This is exactly why guys that can consistently come through late in tight playoff games have a lot more value than they get credit for. I guess people will never learn. You'd think they would have learned last year....

[Indian guy]

games 5 and 6

Neither game was competitive. Game 5 was a blowout from early 3rd qtr onwards. Boston held a healthy lead in the 4th qtr in Game 6.


then in game 6 and stat padded the whole time, but had tons of turnovers and on offense he was just stand around the perimeter and do nothing if he didnt have the ball. and on defense he didnt really do anything.

game 6 was more if a game where he just quit. i remember the game was still within reach at the end and lebron dribbled out a lot of the time and then while mike brown was yelling for him to foul, no one would do and they just let the time run down.

Yikes! How have you managed to stay off my IL all these years? Bye bye.

[Indian guy]

Game 5? ROFL.....

It was a blow out. Don't see how he "choked". He could have played well and it still wouldn't have mattered in the least. Boston had a ridiculous game.


You simply can't be the best player in the league if you aren't capable of being the best player on a team that wins the title.

LeBron isn't the best because he simply doesn't have the ability to be the best. Being "clutch" or "mentally tough" won't suddenly make him quick or a good shooter.

[LBJMVP]

Neither game was competitive. Game 5 was a blowout from early 3rd qtr onwards. Boston held a healthy lead in the 4th qtr in Game 6.



Yikes! How have you managed to stay off my IL all these years? Bye bye.


seriously? everyone on ISH was saying the exact same thing. it was all over every single sports broadcast station.

"the lebacle" you don't remember?

everyone was talking about how passive and weird he was playing.

if you don't remember that then im sorry.

[Collie]

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg15/scaled.php?server=15&filename=scaledphpserver821filen.jpg&res=landing

[tpols]

The rap on LeBron is he doesn't show up in the 4th qtr. How did you reduce that number to just the last 2-3 minutes? Does that mean he's the best the first 8-10 minutes of the 4th qtr too?
He's been way worse in the last 2-3 minutes than he has in 4th quarters overall with Miami. Aside from the Finals last year, he's put up fine 4th quarters. I think he led 82 games clutch stats this year for fourth quarter play.

And even if he's only 'good' in fourth quarters, 'bad' in the last 2 minutes, he's still 'great/legendary' in the other 80% of the game which makes him the best player.

Your point that you have to be 'clutch' to be the best is stupid. A lot of people thought Dwight was the best last year and he wasnt all that clutch. People called Shaq the best for years despite him never being that dominant clutch guy. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[DMAVS41]

It was a blow out. Don't see how he "choked". He could have played well and it still wouldn't have mattered in the least. Boston had a ridiculous game.



LeBron isn't the best because he simply doesn't have the ability to be the best. Being "clutch" or "mentally tough" won't suddenly make him quick or a good shooter.

It was a blowout because he didn't show up. Doesn't matter the result either honestly. He played like ass and didn't show up in the biggest game of the year. It was a strange game to say the least....and since then Lebron has struggled to step up in key moments / games when his team needs him the most.

Missing 2 free throws at home like that? Being afraid to shoot or attack...because he's afraid to shoot free throws late?

He's not the best player because he's a mental midget when the going gets really though.

Too much evidence to ignore over these last 2 or so years.

He's been the opposite of clutch. It cost his team the title last year and it might cost them again this year. Just pathetic.

[chazzy]

Criticizing Cleveland Lebron brings out the old Indianguy, pretty funny to see :lol

[Indian guy]

I think he led 82 games clutch stats this year for fourth quarter play.

He came in 4th in crunch time ppg, actually. It's not "4th qtr play", btw, it's the last 5 minutes of 5 point games or less. Hint: He DOES NOT struggle the last 2-3 minutes of games.


he's still 'great/legendary' in the other 80% of the game which makes him the best player.

How is a player who "chokes" during the game's most crucial 20% the best? I just don't get this, how can you be the best if your game supposedly collapses when it matters most?

[tpols]

Now that I think about it, I really dont even get your original post indianguy. You said the people that rip on Lebron's clutch play the most call him the 'best'.. and thats not true at all. You'll never catch bladers, or anyone of the people that post like him to call him the best. If anything there always trying to prove why hes not the best.

[DMAVS41]

He came in 4th in crunch time ppg, actually. It's not "4th qtr play", btw, it's the last 5 minutes of 5 point games or less. Hint: He DOES NOT struggle the last 2-3 minutes of games.



How is a player who "chokes" during the game's most crucial 20% the best? I just don't get this, how can you be the best if your game supposedly collapses when it matters most?

You can't be. I won't speak for tpols, but Lebron simply can't be considered the best player if he can't win you close playoff games consistently.

Which is why Dirk was far more valuable last year in the playoffs than Lebron.

You are going to have to win close games no matter what in the playoffs unless you just have an all time dominant team. And if your main weakness is close games...you and your team are ****ed.

Conversely, if your main strength is close games....you are likely to win a lot of close games. Just like the Mavs did last year.

And again, this is exactly why there is so much more to basketball than versatility etc...

[Indian guy]

It was a blowout because he didn't show up.

No. Boston had an insane shooting night. A good game by LeBron wouldn't have impacted the final result in the least.


He's not the best player because he's a mental midget when the going gets really though.

Meh. He doesn't look the best when the pressure isn't on either. He sucked in the 2nd and 3rd qtr today. I guess the pressure got to him :rolleyes:

[LBJMVP]

No. Boston had an insane shooting night. A good game by LeBron wouldn't have impacted the final result in the least.



Meh. He doesn't look the best when the pressure isn't on either. He sucked in the 2nd and 3rd qtr today. I guess the pressure got to him :rolleyes:

lebron played like ass in the final 5 minutes of this game... choked on free throws, and then didnt even look at the basketball on their second to last possession. even when the play broke down he went straight to wade without even taking a dribble toward the basketball.

he is a choke job. if you ask anyone in the world who watches basketball and ask them who the biggest choker in the nba is, they will say lebron. that is why you can't use 4th quarter ppg and stupid shit like that. you can just watch and see that he is choker.

[DMAVS41]

No. Boston had an insane shooting night. A good game by LeBron wouldn't have impacted the final result in the least.



Meh. He doesn't look the best when the pressure isn't on either. He sucked in the 2nd and 3rd qtr today. I guess the pressure got to him :rolleyes:

WTF are you talking about?

Who is better than Lebron until crunch time? Nobody...not even really close. He plays amazing defense, is a great passer, can score at high volume at high efficiency.

He is clearly the best player in the game if crunch time didn't exist. But because it does, and because close games are inevitable in the playoffs....and because he isn't on an all time dominant team that blows people out every game....that weakness prevents him from being the best player.

Who is better than Lebron for the first 45 minutes in a game right now in the league?

[CavaliersFTW]

Cleveland fans really look like retards supporting this guy, acting like he was Jesus reincarnated for 7 years, only to completely change their opinions (on his skill, impact, clutchness, mental fortitude, etc...) the moment he decided to switch teams. I generally like yours and RBA's posts for the most part, but when it comes to Bron, it's quite hilarious putting in perspective the shit you guys say.

I have been accusing bron of quitting in 2010 since 2010... I have been accusing bron of not having a post-game since after his first few seasons in the NBA it became apparent he was lacking for a guy 250-260lbs lol. Just because other Cleveland fans called him their gawd doesn't mean I did. I don't look at any Cleveland player as a gawd, I never have. You can be a fan and still not be a homer. Btw, I don't ever criticize Lebron's skill (out of the post), or impact. Those things are more than present, they (along with his talent) are what defines his success to this point.

[Indian guy]

Who is better than Lebron until crunch time?

Give me Durant and Rose over LeBron any day. Maybe even Howard.


can score at high volume at high efficiency.

That "high efficiency" is greatly dependent upon easy baskets. Not really a mark of elite offensive prowess on his part. His FG% has dropped 6% in the playoffs, now that easy baskets have been cut off.


He is clearly the best player in the game if crunch time didn't exist. Who is better than Lebron for the first 45 minutes in a game right now in the league?

:facepalm

LeBron was Top 5 in late-game productivity this season. 2nd best in 4th qtr PER. It's not "crunch time" that's preventing him from being the best. It's the entire game itself. LeBron just has too many passages during the game where he's not really a factor on the court. It goes back to his limited offensive ability, that makes him susceptible to long disappearances - 2nd & 3rd qtr today. The entire first half of Game 1. In the 1st round, his offensive play was ridiculously inconsistent from qtr-to-qtr. Ironically enough, his most consistent period has far and away been the 4th qtr in these playoffs.

[Simple Jack]

Wait. Wait. Wait.

wat

LeBron had 4 TOs in that quarter. :roll: And 3 more in overtime!!!

And he shot 2-5 in the quarter???

This is brilliance? :roll:

Game 5 didn't go to OT.

Score was 79-78 with Cleveland trailing by 1.

Bron finished with 37-14-12. He scored or assisted every point in the 4th quarter but 5.

LOL at the other idiot who commented on your post laughing despite having no knowledge of the game. Lakers fans ladies and gentlemen.

[DMAVS41]

Give me Durant and Rose over LeBron any day. Maybe even Howard.



That "high efficiency" is greatly dependent upon easy baskets. Not really a mark of elite offensive prowess on his part. His FG% has dropped 6% in the playoffs, now that easy baskets have been cut off.



:facepalm

LeBron was Top 5 in late-game productivity this season. 2nd best in 4th qtr PER. It's not "crunch time" that's preventing him from being the best. It's the entire game itself. LeBron just has too many passages during the game where he's not really a factor on the court. It goes back to his limited offensive ability, that makes him susceptible to disappearances. Ironically enough, his most consistent period has far and away been the 4th qtr in these playoffs.

1. Taking Rose or Howard over Lebron is just insane and absurd. Sorry.

2. I'm not talking about 4th qtrs in meaningless regular season games. I'm talking about true crunch time in hard fought playoff games. I'm talking about big playoff games and moments. And Lebron simply hasn't been good at all when its all on the line in make or break situations.

LOL at claiming Rose / Howard are better than Lebron in the first 45 minutes of a game. Absurd.

[tpols]

1. Taking Rose or Howard over Lebron is just insane and absurd. Sorry.

2. I'm not talking about 4th qtrs in meaningless regular season games. I'm talking about true crunch time in hard fought playoff games. I'm talking about big playoff games and moments. And Lebron simply hasn't been good at all when its all on the line in make or break situations.

LOL at claiming Rose / Howard are better than Lebron in the first 45 minutes of a game. Absurd.
Theyre really not better in the clutch either. Rose is extremely streaky/inefficient and Howard is a no show.

[Indian guy]

1. Taking Rose or Howard over Lebron is just insane and absurd. Sorry.

Not much of a rebuttal. Sorry.


2. I'm not talking about 4th qtrs in meaningless regular season games.

Well, through the first 3 rounds last postseason, he was actually posting the best crunch time numbers since they started charting crunch time. In the Finals, he didn't just fail in the 4th qtr, he failed in every qtr. I don't look at it as a 'choke job'. I just see an awful, bizarre series.


I'm talking about true crunch time in hard fought playoff games.

Well, barring tonight, he has fared mighty well in tough situations so far in these playoffs.

[RedBlackAttack]

No. Boston had an insane shooting night. A good game by LeBron wouldn't have impacted the final result in the least.
Cavs were up 23-20 at the end of the first quarter. Shaq had 7 points and was dominating the paint early on. James was a head-scratching 0-for-2 from the floor, didn't attack the hoop one time and had 0 points.

Cavs trailed just 50-44 at half. James still hadn't made a single shot. He was a completely confusing 0-for-4 at half of a game that was still completely within grasp. He was the only Cavaliers starter who hadn't made a field goal.

The first five minutes of the third quarter, when everyone expected James to finally start getting involved in the offense, is when the game really started to get out-of-hand. It wasn't until there was 6:15 to play in the third quarter and the score was 65-50 that James made his first basket of the game.

Had James begun the third quarter with a semblance of urgency, that game was completely within reach. It was one of the most confusing performances I have ever seen by any athlete in any sport.

It looked like he didn't want to be out there from the opening tip until the final buzzer. Saying that the Celtics had it wrapped up from the start is just disingenuous.

There came a point when the Cavs, after having stayed close for over a half, needed their superstar to step forward and start playing like the MVP or playing like he cared. It never happened.



I didn't see the game tonight, so I won't comment on James' performance. I remember Game 5 of the 2010 series between the Cavs and Celtics, though... It was pretty unforgettable.

[Simple Jack]

I have been accusing bron of quitting in 2010 since 2010... I have been accusing bron of not having a post-game since after his first few seasons in the NBA it became apparent he was lacking for a guy 250-260lbs lol. Just because other Cleveland fans called him their gawd doesn't mean I did. I don't look at any Cleveland player as a gawd, I never have. You can be a fan and still not be a homer. Btw, I don't ever criticize Lebron's skill (out of the post), or impact. Those things are more than present, they (along with his talent) are what defines his success to this point.

Take a look at your posts post-decision relative to your posts before. Even on things that pertain to Bron before 2010. It doesn't need any further clarification.

[WeGetRing2012]

Cavs were up 23-20 at the end of the first quarter. Shaq had 7 points and was dominating the paint early on. James was a head-scratching 0-for-2 from the floor, didn't attack the hoop one time and had 0 points.

Cavs trailed just 50-44 at half. James still hadn't made a single shot. He was a completely confusing 0-for-4 at half of a game that was still completely within grasp. He was the only Cavaliers starter who hadn't made a field goal.

The first five minutes of the third quarter, when everyone expected James to finally start getting involved in the offense, is when the game really started to get out-of-hand. It wasn't until there was 6:15 to play in the third quarter and the score was 65-50 that James made his first basket of the game.

Had James begun the third quarter with a semblance of urgency, that game was completely within reach. It was one of the most confusing performances I have ever seen by any athlete in any sport.

It looked like he didn't want to be out there from the opening tip until the final buzzer. Saying that the Celtics had it wrapped up from the start is just disingenuous.

There came a point when the Cavs, after having stayed close for over a half, needed their superstar to step forward and start playing like the MVP or playing like he cared. It never happened.



I didn't see the game tonight, so I won't comment on James' performance. I remember Game 5 of the 2010 series between the Cavs and Celtics, though... It was pretty unforgettable.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Delonte-West-Gloria-James-2.jpg

Sorry I couldn't resist. But he performance was so bad that this crazy rumor came up :oldlol:

[Doranku]

Game 5 didn't go to OT.

Score was 79-78 with Cleveland trailing by 1.

Bron finished with 37-14-12. He scored or assisted every point in the 4th quarter but 5.

LOL at the other idiot who commented on your post laughing despite having no knowledge of the game. Lakers fans ladies and gentlemen.

w/e, that's the game that came up when I googled Game 5 for some reason.

I guess that makes up for his terrible Game 4 and Game 6 performances, though. All hail LeBron!

[Simple Jack]

w/e, that's the game that came up when I googled Game 5 for some reason.

I guess that makes up for his terrible Game 4 and Game 6 performances, though. All hail LeBron!

Game 4 and 6 were hardly terrible. By what measure is 44-12-7 terrible?

If going 40% on shots in the 4th quarter is terrible, I'd like you to look at whatever player you consider your favorite, or even great, and get back to me.

Your expectations are absurd if you consider those 2 games terrible. I'd love to see what player could stand up and overcome such expectations. If those games were terrible, 90% of all games by many all-time greats were terrible.

[Doranku]

Game 4 and 6 were hardly terrible. By what measure is 44-12-7 terrible?

If going 40% on shots in the 4th quarter is terrible, I'd like you to look at whatever player you consider your favorite, or even great, and get back to me.

Your expectations are absurd if you consider those 2 games terrible. I'd love to see what player could stand up and overcome such expectations. If those games were terrible, 90% of all games by many all-time greats were terrible.

Game 6 was bad, don't know how you can argue that one. LeBron was invisible while Dwight was DOMINATING his team.

44-12-7 sounds nice when you don't look at in context. 50 minutes played, 29 shots + 18 FTs to get 44 points, 7 turnovers alone in the 4th quarter and overtime.

Plus, wasn't he guarding Rafer Alston that series? Alston went ham and dropped 6 threes on his ass and had a (by far) game high of a +18 +/-. Dude ate LeBron alive.

[Simple Jack]

Game 6 was bad, don't know how you can argue that one. LeBron was invisible while Dwight was DOMINATING his team.

44-12-7 sounds nice when you don't look at in context. 50 minutes played, 29 shots + 18 FTs to get 44 points, 7 turnovers alone in the 4th quarter and overtime.

Plus, wasn't he guarding Rafer Alston that series? Alston went ham and dropped 6 threes on his ass and had a (by far) game high of a +18 +/-. Dude ate LeBron alive.

Again, take a look at your favorite player and apply the same standards. Let me know how that goes.

Game 6 wasn't great for Bron, but it was hardly bad. Game 4 was DEFINITELY not bad. Not even close.

[pauk]

Lmao....


PS: learn to spell kiddo

[chazzy]

Again, take a look at your favorite player and apply the same standards. Let me know how that goes.

Game 6 wasn't great for Bron, but it was hardly bad. Game 4 was DEFINITELY not bad. Not even close.
Game 6 wasn't good. He had a good first quarter then didn't do anything of note afterwards until garbage time iirc

edit: pretty sure he started off 5/7 and then went 2/12 the rest of the way

[tpols]

Lmao....


PS: learn to spell kiddo
He's alive:eek:

[Doranku]

Again, take a look at your favorite player and apply the same standards. Let me know how that goes.

Game 6 wasn't great for Bron, but it was hardly bad. Game 4 was DEFINITELY not bad. Not even close.

Apply the same standards to what? Kobe's lost like two series in his entire career in the playoffs w/ HCA. LeBron does it every year.

[WeGetRing2012]

He's alive:eek:

Dont acknowledge him let him just leave.......

[WeGetRing2012]

Apply the same standards to what? Kobe's lost like two series in his entire career in the playoffs w/ HCA. LeBron does it every year.

Kobe to Lebron is no comparison. He must have not known you were a Laker fan

[Indian guy]

Had James begun the third quarter with a semblance of urgency, that game was completely within reach.

He absolutely did come out with urgency. This is very noticeable while watching the game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdqy27KsqYk&list=HL1337148764&feature=mh_lolz&t=3m27s) Took 4 shots the first 6 minutes of the 3rd qtr, and 7 for the qtr as a whole. This isn't even including the numerous shots he created created for others.


It looked like he didn't want to be out there from the opening tip until the final buzzer.

Complete and utter myth. I have watched this game numerous times. LeBron looked 100% engaged.

[dude77]

fkin' horrible .. leaving it up to freakin' mario chalmers to try to make up his own shot from the 3 pt line ? .. you think with jordan on the floor, you'd have bj armstrong trying to make up his own shot like that off the dribble with someone in his face ? .. lebron you're fkin' up dude .. don't know wtf is up with you .. this is not consistent with how good this guy is

[pauk]

:oldlol: If Lebron is not clutch then nobody in the NBA is considering he actually is the most clutch in the NBA by facts....

Facts such as him for example right now leading the NBA in:

1. 4th quarter points... 8.5 ppg in the 1st round and 13.0 ppg in this round, 10.0 ppg for the entire playoffs..

2. Clutch stats... "performance in the last 5 minutes of games where the score margin is within 5 points"

[WeGetRing2012]

He absolutely did come out with urgency. This is very noticeable while watching the game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdqy27KsqYk&list=HL1337148764&feature=mh_lolz&t=3m27s) Took 4 shots the first 6 minutes of the 3rd qtr, and 7 for the qtr as a whole. This isn't even including the numerous shots he created created for others.



Complete and utter myth. I have watched this game numerous times. LeBron looked 100% engaged.

It so funny that you have to go back to prove that he was great because he has NOTHING to show for it. How many times have people said Lebron has the best team in league only to come up short in the post season? It is not this way with other great players if was that great he would have RINGS to show for all his great performances...Its obvious some where along the way he came up short deal with it.

[RazorBaLade]

:oldlol: If Lebron is not clutch then nobody in the NBA is considering he actually is the most clutch in the NBA by facts....

Facts such as him for example right now leading the NBA in:

1. 4th quarter points... 8.5 ppg in the 1st round and 13.0 ppg in this round, 10.0 ppg for the entire playoffs..

2. Clutch stats... "performance in the last 5 minutes of games where the score margin is within 5 points"

Just one question bro, please answer

You are down by 2 and there is a minute left, who do you trust to make the FT's to tie the game

A) Lebron
B) Special olympics bball player
C) Kobe Bryant

Please rank your choices.

I have C>B>A.

[RaininTwos]

again, i cannot take this revisionist history seriously. you guys are better than that.

[Doranku]

He absolutely did come out with urgency. This is very noticeable while watching the game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdqy27KsqYk&list=HL1337148764&feature=mh_lolz&t=3m27s) Took 4 shots the first 6 minutes of the 3rd qtr, and 7 for the qtr as a whole. This isn't even including the numerous shots he created created for others.



Complete and utter myth. I have watched this game numerous times. LeBron looked 100% engaged.

Engaged to jack up a bunch of jumpers and brick them all...

[Indian guy]

edit: pretty sure he started off 5/7 and then went 2/12 the rest of the way

Nah. 3-7 in the first qtr. 5-14 rest of the way.

[SunsCaptain]

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.

Fatality.

[chazzy]

Complete and utter myth. I have watched this game numerous times. LeBron looked 100% engaged.
:oldlol: I know you hate this game because it ruins your idea that Lebron's crunch time shortcomings are purely physical, but come on.

[NumberSix]

fkin' horrible .. leaving it up to freakin' mario chalmers to try to make up his own shot from the 3 pt line ? .. you think with jordan on the floor, you'd have bj armstrong trying to make up his own shot like that off the dribble with someone in his face ? .. lebron you're fkin' up dude .. don't know wtf is up with you .. this is not consistent with how good this guy is
To be fair, Darren Collison got away with hitting Rio on the elbow on the shot. There should have been 3 FT's, but they didn't call it..

https://p.twimg.com/As_ddxoCEAERFPe.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.

Fatality.

Just one question bro, please answer

You are down by 2 and there is a minute left, who do you trust to make the FT's to tie the game

A) Lebron
B) Special olympics bball player
C) Kobe Bryant

Please rank your choices.

I have C>B>A.

[chazzy]

Nah. 3-7 in the first qtr. 5-14 rest of the way.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290530019

[Kingwillball]

:oldlol: If Lebron is not clutch then nobody in the NBA is considering he actually is the most clutch in the NBA by facts....

Facts such as him for example right now leading the NBA in:

1. 4th quarter points... 8.5 ppg in the 1st round and 13.0 ppg in this round, 10.0 ppg for the entire playoffs..

2. Clutch stats... "performance in the last 5 minutes of games where the score margin is within 5 points"


Pauk, I am a HUGE Lebron fan/Supporter However tonight was not a Great finish for him between the 2 missed FT's than Deferring on the Last 2 Possessions with chances to take lead or Tie. What REALLY p!sses me off more than anything is Either the Coach not going to Him or Lebrons Unwillingness to take last shot of a Close Gm. Still Not sure who is Really to BLame but hard to Believe Spo Never sets Lebron up with Ball in his hands on Final Possession when Lebron has the Ball in his hands Almost Constantly the First 47 minutes.

[The_Yearning]

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.

Fatality.

I guess we now know who Pauk's other account is.

[pauk]

Just one question bro, please answer

You are down by 2 and there is a minute left, who do you trust to make the FT's to tie the game

A) Lebron
B) Special olympics bball player
C) Kobe Bryant

Please rank your choices.

I have C>B>A.

None of them.... both Kobe & Lebron are not great FT shooters or super shooters whatsover... they are good/ok... but not great shooters, pure shooters... more like volume shooters/scorers...

I would take probably Ray Allen, Dirk Nowitzki or something like that who has the highest FT accuracy in the league.... at the end thats what it comes down to when you hit or miss a shot, ACCURACY...

[Indian guy]

lebron you're fkin' up dude .. don't know wtf is up with you .. this is not consistent with how good this guy is

This is so weird. Everyone considers Wade the fearless clutch one and LeBron the 'choker'. Yet everyone's p!ssed at LeBron for not taking the last shot? :wtf:

[WeGetRing2012]

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.

Fatality.

Do you watch games? Leave the stats at home. Again another Lebron homer bringing up Kobe or Jordan to justify his flaws.

[Indian guy]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290530019

NM. I thought you were talking about Game 6 against Boston in 2010.

[RazorBaLade]

None of them.... both Kobe & Lebron are not great FT shooters or super shooters whatsover... they are good/ok... but not great shooters, pure shooters... more like volume shooters/scorers...

I would take probably Ray Allen, Dirk Nowitzki or something like that who has the highest FT accuracy in the league.... at the end thats what it comes down to when you hit or miss a shot, ACCURACY...

but youd take lebron last out of all 3 right?

[Indian guy]

:oldlol: I know you hate this game because it ruins your idea that Lebron's crunch time shortcomings are purely physical, but come on.

Huh? What does crunch time have anything to do with this game?

[pauk]

Basically Lebron can hit 99 out of 100 clutch shots... but will get criticized for missing that 1... and called not clutch for it.... especially if his team losed that game... and ofcourse his teammates not playing defense and bricking everything on the offensive end is ignored....

[dude77]

To be fair, Darren Collison got away with hitting Rio on the elbow on the shot. There should have been 3 FT's, but they didn't call it..

https://p.twimg.com/As_ddxoCEAERFPe.jpg

didn't see that .. good catch there

[pauk]

but youd take lebron last out of all 3 right?

Well considering Lebron is shooting 88% FT in the 4th quarter this playoffs compared to Kobes 71% FT and Lebron averaging MUCH more 4th quarter and clutch situation points than Kobe this playoffs at higher FG%, 3PT%, FT% aswell.... then the obvious choice is A > B > C....

Your own analogy backfiring right against you once again by using facts....

[LBJMVP]

None of them.... both Kobe & Lebron are not great FT shooters or super shooters whatsover... they are good/ok... but not great shooters, pure shooters... more like volume shooters/scorers...

I would take probably Ray Allen, Dirk Nowitzki or something like that who has the highest FT accuracy in the league.... at the end thats what it comes down to when you hit or miss a shot, ACCURACY...


kobe is a career 84% free throw shooter... that is really good.

:roll:
to say you wouldn't take kobe to take last second free throws is absurd.
to top it off, lebron only shoots 59% from the line when there is one minute left in a one possession game.

[LBJMVP]

Basically Lebron can hit 99 out of 100 clutch shots... but will get criticized for missing that 1... and called not clutch for it.... especially if his team losed that game... and ofcourse his teammates not playing defense and bricking everything on the offensive end is ignored....


your wrong... lebron doesn't take last second shots and that is why he gets criticized.

[pauk]

your wrong... lebron doesn't take last second shots and that is why he gets criticized.

Facts say otherwise.... especially compared to your Hero... here you go:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GWinners-Playoffs.png
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-GWinners-Playoffs.png
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

Well considering Lebron is shooting 88% FT in the 4th quarter this playoffs compared to Kobes 71% FT and Lebron averaging MUCH more 4th quarter and clutch situation points than Kobe this playoffs at higher FG%, 3PT%, FT% aswell.... then the obvious choice is A > B > C....

Your own analogy backfiring right against you once again by using facts....

So what happens when bron misses today and misses these kinds of things routinely while i cant remember a single time kobe botching fts to secure a game and losing? Where do your stats have you then? With a loss?

[pauk]

kobe is a career 84% free throw shooter... that is really good.

:roll:
to say you wouldn't take kobe to take last second free throws is absurd.
to top it off, lebron only shoots 59% from the line when there is one minute left in a one possession game.

Nah its not... 90% is great or "really good"... and RIGHT NOW in the playoffs he is shooting 71% FT in the 4th and 78% FT for the playoffs.... compared to Lebrons 88% FT in the 4th and 81% FT for the playoffs...

Nice try again...

Next Kobetard attempt...?

[WeGetRing2012]

Nah its not... 90% is great or "really good"... and RIGHT NOW in the playoffs he is shooting 71% FT in the 4th and 78% FT for the playoffs.... compared to Lebrons 88% FT in the 4th and 81% FT for the playoffs...

Nice try again...

Next Kobetard attempt...?

Please get the fu.ck out of this thread stats do not tell half of the story :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[chazzy]

Facts say otherwise....
Lebron gets the majority of his crunch time criticism for his play with the Heat, posting his Cleveland stats is irrelevant. He's had a strange arc so far - his first season he was more than willing to take the game winners.. just kept missing them (went 1-9 last year) and then his Finals debacle happened. Since then he hasn't looked nearly as aggressive in those situations.

[WeGetRing2012]

Can we all just ignore Pauk so he leaves?????

[LBJMVP]

serious question... when is the last time lebron hit a game winning shot?
he only got this unclutch reputation since he joined miami. the pressure just got to him.

[RazorBaLade]

serious question... when is the last time lebron hit a game winning shot?
he only got this unclutch reputation since he joined miami. the pressure just got to him.

the better question is when was the last time hes even taken one?

Has it been like 2 years since the guy has taken a shot with under 24 sec left in regulation?

[pauk]

So what happens when bron misses today and misses these kinds of things routinely while i cant remember a single time kobe botching fts to secure a game and losing? Where do your stats have you then? With a loss?

1. Lebrons 2 missed FTs were not the reason behind the loss, even if he would have made them they would still be down by 1 afterwards as the pacers immediately scored.... the game was losed ultimately of Wades missed layup and Chalmers missed jumper....

2. You cant remember Kobe missing FTs in the clutch and losing because of it??? So thats how much delusional we are as Kobetards today? :roll: He is the MASTER of choking with FTs... cant remember only one time? hahahah... here is one... there you go, thats 3 straight missed FTs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfkd_ayBV4M

3. Kobe is to busy CHOKING WITH NORMAL SHOTS anyways.... no need for freethrows....

[chazzy]

serious question... when is the last time lebron hit a game winning shot?
he only got this unclutch reputation since he joined miami. the pressure just got to him.
He's 2/11 the past two seasons (24s left, shot to tie or take the lead) but I don't remember which games the two makes were from


Pauk - Check out Lebron's FT% in the clutch this year.. http://www.82games.com/1112/CSORT11.HTM

[dude77]

This is so weird. Everyone considers Wade the fearless clutch one and LeBron the 'choker'. Yet everyone's p!ssed at LeBron for not taking the last shot? :wtf:

but we all know lebron is the best player on this team and their leader now, a better 3 pt shooter than wade and most probably the best player in the league .. so why is mario chalmers improvising off the dribble from 23+ ft out to try to tie it up .. totally unacceptable .. I'm disgusted right now as this should be a 2-0 series but I'm not going to overreact .. lets see how miami reacts .. I expect them to take game 3 .. if they don't then they are in trouble

[RazorBaLade]

1. Lebrons 2 missed FTs were not the reason behind the loss, even if he would have made them they would still be down by 1 afterwards as the pacers immediately scored.... the game was losed ultimately of Wades missed layup and Chalmers missed jumper....

2. You cant remember Kobe missing FTs in the clutch and losing because of it??? So thats how much delusional we are as Kobetards today? :roll: He is the MASTER of choking with FTs... cant remember only one time? hahahah... here is one... there you go, thats 3 straight missed FTs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfkd_ayBV4M

3. Kobe is to busy CHOKING WITH NORMAL SHOTS anyways.... no need for freethrows....

stopped reading

[SlayerEnraged]

1. Lebrons 2 missed FTs were not the reason behind the loss, even if he would have made them they would still be down by 1 afterwards as the pacers immediately scored.... the game was losed ultimately of Wades missed layup and Chalmers missed jumper....

2. You cant remember Kobe missing FTs in the clutch and losing because of it??? So thats how much delusional we are as Kobetards today? :roll: He is the MASTER of choking with FTs... cant remember only one time? hahahah... here is one... there you go, thats 3 straight missed FTs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfkd_ayBV4M

3. Kobe is to busy CHOKING WITH NORMAL SHOTS anyways.... no need for freethrows....

To bad Kobes come in the regular season vs the wizards....lmao!

[pauk]

the better question is when was the last time hes even taken one?

Has it been like 2 years since the guy has taken a shot with under 24 sec left in regulation?

1. Lebron was only in 4 gamewinning/gametying last second shot situations this season.... 2 attempts, 1 make (gametying shot to send to overtime) and 1 miss gamewinner... the other 2 were performed by Wade and Haslem...

2. ALL THE OTHER GAMES, LEBRON WAS TO BUSY CLOSING TEAMS OUT IN THE 4TH WITH MASSIVE SCORING, MAKING A BLOWOUT LEAD AND THEN RESTING HIS FEET......... SOMETHING KOBRICK CRYANT WAS NOT ABLE TO DO EQUALLY WELL HENCE BEING IN MANY GAMELOSING SITUATIONS WHERE HE HAS TO PLAY HERO BALL....

[LBJMVP]

He's 2/11 the past two seasons (24s left, shot to tie or take the lead) but I don't remember which games the two makes were from


Pauk - Check out Lebron's FT% in the clutch this year.. http://www.82games.com/1112/CSORT11.HTM


most of those must be from last season, cause i havent seen him even take a last shot in forever.

[chazzy]

1. Lebrons 2 missed FTs were not the reason behind the loss, even if he would have made them they would still be down by 1 afterwards as the pacers immediately scored..
No, the play after was Hibbert making 1/2 freethrows. If Lebron made his 2, that would've tied the game with Miami having the ball. If they were to run the same Wade play in this hypothetical, they wouldn't have needed to intentionally foul the Pacers and could've gotten a defensive stop to force OT. lol

most of those must be from last season, cause i havent seen him even take a last shot in forever.
He took 10 last season, 2 this year

[coin24]

Stop arguing with Pauk he is a complete fkn retard.:facepalm
Nothing you say will change his weird love for lebron.
And on cue, he posts an essay of Kobe stats. Which, as we know, Kobes accomplishments can only be dreamed about by a loser like bronzey...:cheers:

Basically everyone can see lebron is useless under pressure.
If the games on the line, he wants nothing to do with it.
Has he even taken a last second shot this year? Pretty sure he passes every time:lol what a chump...

[chazzy]

1. Lebron was only in 4 gamewinning/gametying last second shot situations this season.... 2 attempts, 1 make (gametying shot to send to overtime) and 1 miss gamewinner... the other 2 were performed by Wade and Haslem...

2. ALL THE OTHER GAMES, LEBRON WAS TO BUSY CLOSING TEAMS OUT IN THE 4TH WITH MASSIVE SCORING, MAKING A BLOWOUT LEAD AND THEN RESTING HIS FEET......... SOMETHING KOBRICK CRYANT WAS NOT ABLE TO DO EQUALLY WELL HENCE BEING IN MANY GAMELOSING SITUATIONS WHERE HE HAS TO PLAY HERO BALL....
Miami had 15 game winning/tying FGA this season

http://bkref.com/tiny/bVROs

[LakersReign]

kobe is a career 84% free throw shooter... that is really good.

:roll:
to say you wouldn't take kobe to take last second free throws is absurd.
to top it off, lebron only shoots 59% from the line when there is one minute left in a one possession game.


pauk is a typical FAKE Heat fan aka Lebronyte, did you actually expect him to make the logical choice of Kobe in that question? Anybody who truly knows basketball would take Kobe out of the 3. The reason why pauk wouldn't is cuz he doesn't know a damn thing about basketball. Picking a 59% FT shooter over an 84% shooter is the height of stupidity. Then he claims to know about basketball, which is an OBVIOUS lie.

[pauk]

Its just always equally hilarious that this is all mostly Kobetards.... they sure didnt criticize Kobe for the PATHETIC performance against OKC last night.... nor some of the chokejobs against Nuggets.... all meanwhile Lebron was FLAWLESS in the 4th quarter/clutch until one single god damn time tonight where he missed 2 FTs... and a riot ocurs by them because of it..... amazing....

Nor do they care that Kobe during his career has made his gamewinners/gametying shots AT A MUCH LOWER ACCURACY than Lebron and that Lebron is making more gamewinning/gametying shots and 4th quarter points at a much higher rate than Kobe, including playoffs.... :roll:



LEBRON IS DOING JUST FINE.......... HOW ABOUT YOU KOBETARDS GO BACK WORRYING ABOUT KOBRICK CRYANTS MASSIVE CHOKEJOBS INSTEAD........... ????

[tpols]

1. Lebrons 2 missed FTs were not the reason behind the loss, even if he would have made them they would still be down by 1 afterwards as the pacers immediately scored.... the game was losed ultimately of Wades missed layup and Chalmers missed jumper....
.
Do you know what momentum is retard? If Lebron hits those 2 FTs to give Miami their first lead of the 4th, the Pacers are DONE. They were already shook on the possession before when George choked and missed two FTs.

No offense man, but you are really, really.. really, really dumb.

[coin24]

pauk is a typical FAKE Heat fan aka Lebronyte, did you actually expect him to make the logical choice of Kobe in that question? Anybody who truly knows basketball would take Kobe out of the 3. The reason why pauk wouldn't is cuz he doesn't know a damn thing about basketball.

Pauk watches the game on silent, pants around ankles fapping over lebron. Would explain his zero bball knowledge and creepy lebron obsession:lol

[LakersReign]

Its just always equally hilarious that this is all mostly Kobetards.... they sure didnt criticize Kobe for the PATHETIC performance against OKC last night.... nor some of the chokejobs against Nuggets.... all meanwhile Lebron was FLAWLESS in the 4th quarter/clutch until one single god damn time tonight where he missed 2 FTs... and a riot ocurs by them because of it..... amazing....

Nor do they care that Kobe during his career has made his gamewinners/gametying shots AT A MUCH LOWER ACCURACY than Lebron and that Lebron is making more gamewinning/gametying shots and 4th quarter points at a much higher rate than Kobe, including playoffs.... :roll:


The truth really does hurt....doesn't it?:lol

At least Kobe takes the last shot and doesn't buckle under the pressure like you're obviously doing right now just like your boyfriend Lebron:oldlol:

[WeGetRing2012]

GET OUT OF THE THREAD PAUK!!!!

[chazzy]

Pauk I gave you facts, the thing you always clamor for

[LakersReign]

Pauk watches the game on silent, pants around ankles fapping over lebron. Would explain his zero bball knowledge and creepy lebron obsession:lol


I wouldn't doubt that at all from that sick freak. Seems like all Lebronytes do exactly the same thing:eek:

[chazzy]

Nor do they care that Kobe during his career has made his gamewinners/gametying shots AT A MUCH LOWER ACCURACY than Lebron
That's actually not true, these past two years (shot 2/11) have brought Lebron down to ~30%, Kobe's around 31%

Killing pauk with the facts :lol

[LABean]

Yes. He chokes.

Heat need a closer if they want to win.
And no, Wade ain't a closer.

[LakersReign]

Pauk I gave you facts, the thing you always clamor for


There's a HUGE difference in ACTUALL FACTS, that can be proven with evidence. And what pauk calls facts, which is his opinion, backed up with more of his opinion, that he tries to present as facts. The idiot doesn't know the difference, so don't even bother.

[chazzy]

That's actually not true, these past two years (shot 2/11) have brought Lebron down to ~30%, Kobe's around 31%

pauk?

[Doranku]

:roll: This site is pure trolling at this point. Kinda funny.

[Pursuer]

:roll: This site is pure trolling at this point. Kinda funny.

Not really. It's more boring to me, than anything else.

[Simple Jack]

Apply the same standards to what? Kobe's lost like two series in his entire career in the playoffs w/ HCA. LeBron does it every year.

Of individual performance; not simply of the result. Why do people act like your team winning or losing is the direct result of how a single player played? It's rarely ever that simple and it seems to be completely disregarded when discussing Kobe or LeBron...in opposite ways.

[Simple Jack]

Do you watch games? Leave the stats at home. Again another Lebron homer bringing up Kobe or Jordan to justify his flaws.

Why is this logic constantly brought up? He's not posting offensive rating or PER or WS for the 4th quarter or something completely out of context that requires some special formula. He's posting makes and misses just as people are talking about the FT's missed as well as the 0-1 FG (or whatever it was) in the later part of last nights game. You can go back and look at every one of those shots he took where he shot 29% in the Finals against Boston among the rest of the numbers he posted.

Just because he posted it like a complete douche doesn't mean these makes and misses didn't happen. We can discuss plenty of other ways players can contribute late in games or in 4th quarters, or all game long for that matter...I don't think there's another player who plays a better all-around game when his offense isn't going than LeBron. He is constantly looking to get others involved, rebounding, and playing great defense, ROUTINELY, when his offense is off. That's not the issue here. The issue apparently, is scoring late in games when the game is within reach, or when one team has an opportunity to close it out. The stats he posted are consistent with the same criticism those are putting on LeBron. This isn't the time to tell people to "watch the games" as if they'll see something other than the things he posted in regards to offense. If you want to tell people to watch the games at least tell them what you are seeing that they aren't; was there some defensive plays that impacted the game? Some key rebounds in traffic that changed the climate of the game? If it's about overall offense, I'm not sure what you are getting at.

You can't tell people to "watch the games" with the assumption that you are discussing something other than converting on offense when you turn right around and blame LeBron for missing some shots late in the game. Logic doesn't work like that as much as people may want it to.

It goes back to the point of expectations. It's odd that many people who have posted in this thread clearly have very low expectations for LeBron in the clutch, yet he is consistently held to a higher standard than plenty of the guys they praise or expect more from in these situations. You would think with lower expectations, comes less criticism...not equal or more criticism than players you routinely expect more from.

We've seen it all season long and it will continue; no matter what LeBron does he will continue to get criticized by the many people who hate him, and propped up, to an exaggerated level, by his stans. Neither approach is rational and the only thing that will eliminate it is performing at an absurdly high level...an immune to criticism level...for the duration of the playoffs and the finals; all while outplaying another great player in Wade, as well as whoever they match up against, on both offense and defense. It's a level that realistically can't be reached. Just look at how quickly people are dismissing the fact that the Miami Heat's 3rd best player went from being a perennial all-star in Bosh to an average role player on most teams in Mario Chalmers as if it has no effect on this series or any one that may follow.

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt to the people who will reply to this and state "if he does ____, I won't have a problem with him" only to reveal a quick search of the time he did ____ which was then downplayed in one way or another.

Ignoring people who feel the need to post knee-jerk reactions to every play or game or even series would be a start but I'm not sure that's reasonable. 2 and a half hours was all it took for some people to completely change their perspective on the Heat and LeBron's chances of winning a title this season. If that doesn't suggest to you that something is clearly odd and pointless to this discussion I'm not sure what to tell you.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well hes clutch in regular season though.

[NumberSix]

1. Lebrons 2 missed FTs were not the reason behind the loss, even if he would have made them they would still be down by 1 afterwards as the pacers immediately scored.... the game was losed ultimately of Wades missed layup and Chalmers missed jumper....

2. You cant remember Kobe missing FTs in the clutch and losing because of it??? So thats how much delusional we are as Kobetards today? :roll: He is the MASTER of choking with FTs... cant remember only one time? hahahah... here is one... there you go, thats 3 straight missed FTs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfkd_ayBV4M

3. Kobe is to busy CHOKING WITH NORMAL SHOTS anyways.... no need for freethrows....
I'm clearly a LeBron homer, but c'mon dude. They surely didn't help the situation.

[Teanett]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0515/nba_g_chalmers22_cr_576.jpg

[pauk]

He is a great players with great talents but he does not have what it takes to will his team to a championship.

So it is clutchness which allows a player to will his team to a championship?

How come Reggie Miller has 0 championships then? There is nobody who was any more clutch than him.......

[Richesly]

I don't get it.

How did LeBron choke?

He passed it to another superstar, Dwade, to go for a layup. If anything, Wade choked.

He passed it to one of the best 3pt shooters on the floor, Mario, and Mario missed.

Basketball is a team sport.

There is a reason why Kobe shoots his teams out more than he does in.

[toneloc103]

Lebron was Gassed and Shook after missing 2 Fts and than having Shot Blocked By Goerge. Down 2 He passes to Wade instead of attacking rim was Bad and than Being a Decoy letting Chalmers jack up contested last shot when he has done nothing productive all was Inexcusable. I said this after loss to Knicks The games that come down the stretch are still a problem with Heat cause Lebron Dominates Ball All game long than wants nothing to do with it when it matter most and Other are expected to bail him out.. Doesn't work that way Lebron U won MVP act like it and Demand the ball and Shots in those closing situations. 2 Playoff Losses Both times Lebron doesnt even have Anything to do with last play. :wtf: :confusedshrug:


^^^ This

[Doranku]

I don't get it.

How did LeBron choke?

He passed it to another superstar, Dwade, to go for a layup. If anything, Wade choked.

He passed it to one of the best 3pt shooters on the floor, Mario, and Mario missed.

Basketball is a team sport.

There is a reason why Kobe shoots his teams out more than he does in.

You forgot that he passed it to the back of the rim on three out of his last four free throws with <2 minutes to play.

[Tenchi Ryu]

I don't get it.

How did LeBron choke?

He passed it to another superstar, Dwade, to go for a layup. If anything, Wade choked.

He passed it to one of the best 3pt shooters on the floor, Mario, and Mario missed.

Basketball is a team sport.

There is a reason why Kobe shoots his teams out more than he does in.
Shaq and Kenny SPECIFICALLY pointed out that the original play (to go to Wade) was completely BROKEN, as in, the play is FAILED. Common basketball knowledge is that when the play is broken, you "Go with what you know". You use your B-ball IQ and skill to make up some instant offense.

First off, Lebron didn't even TRY to look for his own shot. What makes this so bad is that not only is it 20 seconds on the clock and you NEED a gamewinner, but who was in front of him? George, the same George who he was blowing by all night. So when the pressure is high, the fact he couldn't at least try to do what he was doing all night makes it look like he choked some more after those FTs.

Second, NONE of Lebron's teammates had as good of a high percentage shot as Lebron did. Wade was completely wrapped up , Battier instantly passed the ball back after Lebron dished it to him, and Chalmers had to dribble just to create some space which was STILL contested. In this situation, Lebron should have tried to take his man off the dribble.

Here is TNT explaning it, and Kenny is RIGHT ON POINT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X_6U23Aycc

[blablabla]

why are ppl talkin bout bron and not wade who was horrible in the clutch

[Tenchi Ryu]

why are ppl talkin bout bron and not wade who was horrible in the clutch
Because Wade just sucked ass. The reason Lebron is getting more flak right now is cause Lebron showed signs of actually being scared. Being scared is more of a subject of discussion than flat out sucking to most people.

[nathanjizzle]

lebron is just not that guy.

[Droid101]

How did LeBron choke?

Like this:

James missed two free throws with 54.3 seconds left and the Heat trailing by a single point. He is now shooting just 59 percent from the charity stripe this season in the final minute of one-possession games.

[RedBlackAttack]

Engaged to jack up a bunch of jumpers and brick them all...
Not "a bunch." He was just 0-for-4 in the first half of a game that was kept close by his teammates.

In the third quarter, he began with two awful turnovers and then missed three long jumpers. By the time the third one clanged off of the rim, the game was all but over. If that is him being "engaged," then he isn't the best player in the world (I still think he is/was, btw).

Like I said, his teammates carried the Cavs to a lead at the end of the first and then down just 6 at half. They needed him to step up his game in the third quarter. He arguably stepped it down a few notches. He had no confidence in either his drive or his shot.

There is no way to spin that performance in a positive light. It was such a head-scratching display that people had to make up ridiculous excuses like Delonte banging his mom to try and explain it.

Hell, I can go back and find the thread, but I even remember IndianGuy being totally confused at the time. I don't need to watch it again and don't want to watch it again. That was awful.


The Cavs were heavy favorites going into that series and actually had a 2-1 advantage at one point. That is when everything went to hell.

[RaininTwos]

Because Wade just sucked ass. The reason Lebron is getting more flak right now is cause Lebron showed signs of actually being scared. Being scared is more of a subject of discussion than flat out sucking to most people.
that makes no sense:oldlol:

wade was just trash so he gets a pass? :wtf: :rolleyes: :facepalm

[Phong]

that makes no sense:oldlol:

wade was just trash so he gets a pass? :wtf: :rolleyes: :facepalmTrying and failing is better than being scared and not trying.

[Tenchi Ryu]

that makes no sense:oldlol:

wade was just trash so he gets a pass? :wtf: :rolleyes: :facepalm
According to the media, fans, and the current hot topic....YUP.

[RaininTwos]

Trying and failing is better than being scared and not trying.

Funny how Lebron and Wade did both last night. Only one is being discussed.

Let lebron get the ball at the top of the key with time to make get space for a three and if he did what wade did, he would be getting criticized even more.

[Droid101]

that makes no sense:oldlol:

wade was just trash so he gets a pass? :wtf: :rolleyes: :facepalm
Wade made five straight shots in the fourth quarter before he went cold.

Bron missed what would have been the game winning free throws. :confusedshrug:

[RaininTwos]

Wade made five straight shots in the fourth quarter before he went cold.

Bron missed what would have been the game winning free throws. :confusedshrug:
missing layups= going cold now:oldlol:

its funny how many holes you guys have in your "logic"

[Droid101]

missing layups= going cold now:oldlol:

its funny how many holes you guys have in your "logic"
You are quickly becoming worse than pauk and LeBron23 with your antics today.

[nathanjizzle]

Funny how Lebron and Wade did both last night. Only one is being discussed.

Let lebron get the ball at the top of the key with time to make get space for a three and if he did what wade did, he would be getting criticized even more.

lebron has higher expectations. he just won his 3rd mvp 3 days ago, considered the best player in the league. he has higher expectations and is failing them more than wade is his. everyone knows wade has declined, we dont expect him to hit clutch shots anymore. nor is he the go to guy on the team, lebron is, cept lebron isnt taking his shots.

[LakersReign]

that makes no sense:oldlol:

wade was just trash so he gets a pass? :wtf: :rolleyes: :facepalm


B***h please.:rolleyes:

Lebron got his MVP trophy on Saturday and got sick with it on the Pacers in Game 1. ALL Y'ALL were on Cloud 9, bragging and sh*t. Game 2, he stinks it up, and AS USUAL, y'all looking for excuses. Sorry, no excuses for a 3 time MVP to perform like that in the closing seconds of a playoff game. He's supposedly the best in the league, then prove it. Simply as that. This has nothing to do with Wade. GTFOH!!!!

[RaininTwos]

You are quickly becoming worse than pauk and LeBron23 with your antics today.

worse as in i actually have a point and you cant respond without being a name calling b*tch.

i have no problem with you guys jizzing your pants even time the heat lose. That's fine. do you. the problem i have is this inane criteria that ish has made for lebron only. if you are going to blame him for his shortcomings in the 4th, then do it for all. but you dont.



lebron has higher expectations. he just won his 3rd mvp 3 days ago, considered the best player in the league. he has higher expectations and is failing them more than wade is his. everyone knows wade has declined, we dont expect him to hit clutch shots anymore. nor is he the go to guy on the team, lebron is, cept lebron isnt taking his shots.

I saw you on here proclaiming that wade was a better player, what happened to that? The whole wade is the leader shtick is out the window now? lol

[Dro]

Lebron was hardly blowing by anybody....He was using pick and roll to get into the lane most of the night from the game I was watching...

[Droid101]

worse as in i actually have a point and you cant respond without being a name calling b*tch.

i have no problem with you guys jizzing your pants even time the heat lose. That's fine. do you. the problem i have is this inane criteria that ish has made for lebron only. if you are going to blame him for his shortcomings in the 4th, then do it for all. but you dont.
Fine:

Over the last two seasons, including the playoffs, Wade is 4-for-13 and Chalmers is 1-for-8 on shots with 24 seconds or less in a one possession game. The four makes and 13 attempts by Wade are the most for the Heat in that span, topping the 2-for-12 effort by James over the same span.


1-Possession Game With 1 Min Remaining
4th Quarter and OT, This Season

FT FT Pct
LeBron James 10-17 59%
Dwyane Wade 6-7 86%
Chris Bosh 3-3 100%
Mario Chalmers 4-5 80%

"LEBRON IS CLUTCH!"

[Phong]

The insane criteria that a 3-time MVP winner could at least make 1 of 2 free throws.. you know.. uncontested free throws.. and at least try to attack the basket instead of forcing his role players into making game winning shots.

[nathanjizzle]

I saw you on here proclaiming that wade was a better player, what happened to that? The whole wade is the leader shtick is out the window now? lol


was that not last year?

[RaininTwos]

The insane criteria that a 3-time MVP winner could at least make 1 of 2 free throws.. you know.. uncontested free throws.. and at least try to attack the basket instead of forcing his role players into making game winning shots.

Wade is role player? Please, tell me more. I'm very interested in your bullshit, too bad i dont have time for it.

The game i watched had a play designed for wade at the end of the game with room and time to try to get off a clean three.

he passed to a covered chalmers at the last second

or are you talking about the play where lebron passed to a wide open battier in the corner and he didnt shoot it?

oh wow those were horrid decisions.

[Doranku]

Fine:

Over the last two seasons, including the playoffs, Wade is 4-for-13 and Chalmers is 1-for-8 on shots with 24 seconds or less in a one possession game. The four makes and 13 attempts by Wade are the most for the Heat in that span, topping the 2-for-12 effort by James over the same span.

Free throw percentages with 24 seconds or less remaining in one possession games:


FT FT Pct
LeBron James 10-17 59%
Dwyane Wade 6-7 86%
Chris Bosh 3-3 100%
Mario Chalmers 4-5 80%

"LEBRON IS CLUTCH!"

Damn, is that the criteria? Doesn't even take into account last night's choke. :roll: :roll:

[nathanjizzle]

Wade is role player? Please, tell me more. I'm very interested in your bullshit, too bad i dont have time for it.

The game i watched had a play designed for wade at the end of the game with room and time to try to get off a clean three.

he passed to a covered chalmers at the last second

or are you talking about the play where lebron passed to a wide open battier in the corner and he didnt shoot it?

oh wow those were horrid decisions.

why are you putting words into peoples mouths, you need to learn how to debate better. i mean you couldnt even comprehend why people are more critical of lebron james than dwyane wade.

[Droid101]

Damn, is that the criteria? Doesn't even take into account last night's choke. :roll: :roll:
Sorry, I was wrong. I'll correct it. Should be:

1-Possession Game With 1 Min Remaining
4th Quarter and OT, This Season

[Doranku]

Sorry, I was wrong. I'll correct it. Should be:

1-Possession Game With 1 Min Remaining
4th Quarter and OT, This Season
:roll: @ this n!gga getting gifted 17 FTs in these situations and then shooting them like Shaq.

[RaininTwos]

Fine:

Over the last two seasons, including the playoffs, Wade is 4-for-13 and Chalmers is 1-for-8 on shots with 24 seconds or less in a one possession game. The four makes and 13 attempts by Wade are the most for the Heat in that span, topping the 2-for-12 effort by James over the same span.

Free throw percentages with 24 seconds or less remaining in one possession games:


FT FT Pct
LeBron James 10-17 59%
Dwyane Wade 6-7 86%
Chris Bosh 3-3 100%
Mario Chalmers 4-5 80%

"LEBRON IS CLUTCH!"

Lebron got 17 FTA's in the last 24 seconds? But yet people say he's not aggressive in crunch time......interesting.

Like I said, im not pauk or lebron 23, you can't debate me without conceding something, which you are obviously against. You are no different than phong. you two are both anti-lebron which is fine, the ridiculous bias you put into every thought about this dude isnt however.

Look at the flow of conversation, not once did I say disagree with the thread title, so your idiotic sarcasm and random stats can stop right here. my point was about the inconsistent criteria. nothing went right for the heat in the last minute and instead of saying that, people are completely focusing the blame on bron. which is expected because you guys are a bunch of idiots. i dont know why i try to bring common sense into such an emotional topic for you guys. its clear that you and others have invested so much venom towards this dude.

i said this months ago, but its getting to the point where lebron fans outside of pauk and lebron 23 discuss their favorite player less than people like you. dont you find that odd?

[Phong]

LeBron couldn't have done anything else. LeBron is so unselfish that he was trying to make plays for everybody down the stretch but nobody wanted the shots. He passed to Battier who passed back to him, same with Wade. LeBron even passed the ball to the rim but the rim passed it back too.

http://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2012/05/16/120516061910920004.gif

[Droid101]

Lebron got 17 FTA's in the last 24 seconds? But yet people say he's not aggressive in crunch time......interesting.

I see that no matter what is posted, you make an excuse. Interesting.

[RaininTwos]

I see that no matter what is posted, you make an excuse. Interesting.
How is that an excuse?


An excuse is saying that he missed them because he was tired. I said last night that lebron has had some bad clutch moments, didnt know i had to repeat myself:facepalm

I dont need to make excuses, I see you have trouble thinking critically.

[step_back]

He commands so much attention from the defence kicking it out to an open player for a shot isn't such a bad thing. Wade and Bosh in particular have been coasting since he got to Miami. They need to do a better job and step up. The heat look like they revolve around LeBron like the Cavs did at the moment.

[RaininTwos]

He commands so much attention from the defence kicking it out to an open player for a shot isn't such a bad thing. Wade and Bosh in particular have been coasting since he got to Miami. They need to do a better job and step up. The heat look like the revolve around LeBron like the Cavs did at the moment.
I agree with this.

[LakersReign]

I see that no matter what is posted, you make an excuse. Interesting.


And you're surprised by this? Should be used to is by now. They were all talking sh*t about him winning his 3rd MVP on Saturday, and how he supposedly moved up on the All-Time list. But when he chokes again, all they can think of is excuses and stammer "buh....buh....buh....buh...Wade....." Sad:facepalm

[pegasus]

LeBron couldn't have done anything else. LeBron is so unselfish that he was trying to make plays for everybody down the stretch but nobody wanted the shots. He passed to Battier who passed back to him, same with Wade. LeBron even passed the ball to the rim but the rim passed it back too.

http://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2012/05/16/120516061910920004.gif

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Lebron needs better rims who will come through for him in the clutch.

[swi7ch]

He's not clutch because he is being programmed by everyone around him that he is not clutch!

All-Star game.
Game against NY.
Game last night.
etc.

Then you add the media influence. All he hears 24x7 is how unclutch he is so of course he's not goint to be clutch when the situation calls for it!

[swi7ch]

LeBron couldn't have done anything else. LeBron is so unselfish that he was trying to make plays for everybody down the stretch but nobody wanted the shots. He passed to Battier who passed back to him, same with Wade. LeBron even passed the ball to the rim but the rim passed it back too.

http://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2012/05/16/120516061910920004.gif

Jeff, this is why we need the rep system back! :bowdown:

[tpols]

that makes no sense:oldlol:

wade was just trash so he gets a pass? :wtf: :rolleyes: :facepalm
It makes perfect sense.. Wade at least showed some balls even though he missed.

It's like the difference between a kid calling you out and you running(Lebron) and going in to fight him but getting your ass whipped(Wade). At least the other guy went down fighting.

[B]

True clutch basketball is making the right plays down the stretch, it has nothing to do with shots falling with regularity, EVERYONE misses shots usually at a higher percentage when the teams in panic mode.

Lebron generally makes good plays when the game is on the line. He's got a solid teammate in Wade who's certainly more than capable of making big plays. It's not a one man show. This whole Lebron isn't clutch Kobe, Dirk, Rose isn't clutch debate ior nobodies as clutch as Jordan talk is just worthless noise.

These guys do what they do best in crunch time, they fall back on what got them to that moment and that's making the best play, not going out of character and trying something new

[TheBluest]

You can't go 2-6 at the FT line in the last 6:00min of the game. The Role Players were expecting Lebron to step up here and he didn't just like they didn't when he passed them the rock down the stretch.

Can't have it both ways Lebron.... DU-DU STANS

http://www.officeplayground.com/Assets/ProductPreview/pi3600-3799/3731_wackywobblerbobbleheadtalkingmrhankey_1.jpg

[WeGetRing2012]

He's not clutch because he is being programmed by everyone around him that he is not clutch!

All-Star game.
Game against NY.
Game last night.
etc.

Then you add the media influence. All he hears 24x7 is how unclutch he is so of course he's not goint to be clutch when the situation calls for it!

Most of us agree its the pressure that gets to Lebron. And he brought some of this pressure himself with the not 5,6,7,8..... crap.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron went 28/9/5/6 last night while banging with the bigs.

Do you know how many times in his career Kobe has done that in the playoffs?

ZERO.

Do you know how many times in the regular season Kobe has done that?

ZERO.


Seriously, this is OUT OF HAND.

[AlphaWolf24]

Lebron went 28/9/5/6 last night while banging with the bigs.

Do you know how many times in his career Kobe has done that in the playoffs?

ZERO.

Do you know how many times in the regular season Kobe has done that?

ZERO.


Seriously, this is OUT OF HAND.


stats??....

how many times has Michael Jordan went for 30 Points and 20 rebounds?? in the post season.....or 50 Points and 25 rebounds??

Wilt has....no one says Wilt is better (!CU NB4 JB rant)



stats...:lol "make like a tree and GTFO!!!"

[Phong]

Lebron went 28/9/5/6 last night while banging with the bigs.

Do you know how many times in his career Kobe has done that in the playoffs?

ZERO.

Do you know how many times in the regular season Kobe has done that?

ZERO.


Seriously, this is OUT OF HAND.What does that have to do with clutchness? :confusedshrug:

Do you know how many free throws LeBron made in the clutch last night?

ZERO.

Do you know how many shots LeBron made in the clutch last night?

ZERO.

Do you know how many rings LeBron has won after 2 Finals?

ZERO.

[The Iron Fist]

How many times has Kobe been afraid in the playoffs?
Lebron went 28/9/5/6 last night while banging with the bigs.

Do you know how many times in his career Kobe has done that in the playoffs?

ZERO.

Do you know how many times in the regular season Kobe has done that?

ZERO.


Seriously, this is OUT OF HAND.

[Quickening]

How many times has Kobe been afraid in the playoffs?

Game 7 of finals, 6 for 24... Kobe was shitting his pants.

[AlphaWolf24]

Game 7 of finals, 6 for 24... Kobe was shitting his pants.


won....

[The Iron Fist]

Game 7 of finals, 6 for 24... Kobe was shitting his pants.
He was so afraid that he grabbed sixteen rebounds and won the game, series and fmvp.


Oh yea, he averaged over 25 agame too.

[Quickening]

He was so afraid that he grabbed sixteen rebounds.

:lol :roll: :oldlol:

[Phong]

Game 7 of finals, 6 for 24... Kobe was shitting his pants.When you miss and keep trying it shows confidence, not fear. It's when you miss and lose confidence that you stop shooting; like LeBron does.

No other superstar has had their clutchness questioned like LeBron.