Taking CP3 over AI is just ridiculous..

[tgan3]

I know 85% of you guys in insidehoops would take CP3 over AI just for the fact he plays more of a PG style. But AI was averaging 8 apg in his prime playing SG and scoring 30 ppg to boot. AI is hands down the superior player.

Put 27 yo AI in the Clippers against the Spurs (They still wouldn't win) but he would give the Spurs more trouble then CP3 with the Clippers.

[ILLsmak]

nobody who saw AI would do that... lol IMO.

I'm taking AI over everyone in the league right now except LeBron.

-Smak

[tgan3]

nobody who saw AI would do that... lol IMO.

I'm taking AI over everyone in the league right now except LeBron.

-Smak

Come on, there were these CP3 vs AI threads last time and I swear 90% of them say they would take CP3 because hes the "smarter" player, plays team ball and higher FG%. AI was just an egocentric shot jacker to them. :lol

[Kobe 4 The Win]

AI is a great player but I'd take CP3 over him. I did see AI in his prime and he was very impressive. However, I trust CP3 more to truly get other guys involved and make the right decisions on the floor. CP3 is a crazy hard worker and he's got that insane competive spirit like Jordan, Magic and Kobe.

[bluechox2]

give ai a ray allen type and you win trophy's

[Remix]

give ai a ray allen type and you win trophy's
and a big to grab all his missed shots. i swear some bigs dont even try to get offensive boards. someone like varejao who doesnt care if he gets the ball but still hustles to get every board.

[coin24]

AI:bowdown:

Dude was a beast and played his heart out every game. It was disgusting the way he was blackballed/hated on by the media and dumb blind fans..

It sucks that the younger guys who never got to watch 76ers AI just assume he was a ball hogging chucker/cancer to his team:facepalm :facepalm

[Kobe 4 The Win]

"We're talking about practice, not the game, practice"

[bluechox2]

and a big to grab all his missed shots. i swear some bigs dont even try to get offensive boards. someone like varejao who doesnt care if he gets the ball but still hustles to get every board.

replace lebron with ai (prime), and you get a guy who has heart, willing to take the last shot, and can be more dominant playing alongside wade and bosh

then again, players of the 90's hated to play alongside someone good, wanted their own team to win the ring.

[Xiao Yao You]

AI is hands down the superior player.
.

As long as effeciency and basketball IQ don't matter to you I guess.

[kumquat]

A shortened season and an easy trip to the finals by AI obviously has you blinded. CP3 has it all over AI. What did AI do outside of his one trip to the finals.

[miles berg]

replace lebron with ai (prime), and you get a guy who has heart, willing to take the last shot, and can be more dominant playing alongside wade and bosh

then again, players of the 90's hated to play alongside someone good, wanted their own team to win the ring.

Jordan hated playing with Pippen, Malone hated Stockton, Kemp hated Payton, Barkley had Olajuwon but Olajuwon hated Drexler. Shaq hated Penny but Kobe hated Shaq. Duncan hated Robinson. I do however believe that Iverson honestly hated Stackhouse, truly hated sharing the ball with him.

[Xiao Yao You]

I do however believe that Iverson honestly hated Stackhouse, truly hated sharing the ball with him.

Didn't like sharing with anyone.

[Yanch856]

Yes AI. If you've watched him play during those philly years man... the year he won the MVP, hands down incredible. Down something like 40 points against the bucks, coming back. Stepping over Lue in game 1. Hell yeah. AI is a baller straight up.

CP3 flops so bad - you're talking about the ultimate anti-CP3 when it comes to AI lol. I remember him playing with something crazy like 13 injuries.

[knicksman]

empty stats. AI cant make a team contender whereas cp3 can. Hes only lucky to have played in the weak east.

[Yanch856]

empty stats. AI cant make a team contender whereas cp3 can. Hes only lucky to have played in the weak east.

No disrespect but Ai did make his team contender. CP3 was traded out of hornets without bringing them anywhere close to the success of AI for Philly. The town loves Iverson like its son man - I don't see CP3 making this kind of impact to a franchise. In some ways I think Barkley was only half joking when he picked AI in that all time draft.

I mean, the fearlessness when AI broke MJ's ankle using the killer crossover - that's more charismatic than anything I've seen from whiny Chris Paul lmao.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

The fact that a guy with his talent level and ablily to score couldn't get a job in the NBA speaks volumes about what a cancer he was.

[rodman91]

He isn't better than prime Kidd or Nash, how come he can be better than Iverson?

[Yanch856]

The fact that a guy with his talent level and ablily to score couldn't get a job in the NBA speaks volumes about what a cancer he was.

Lol how did I end up defending AI but, this coming from a Kobe stan is clearly biased.

You can't judge a man when he's down.

The problem with AI is that he was the cultural icon for the NBA in the early 2000s - single handedly introducing the hip hop era to the NBA, the cornrows, baggy pants, which, as with most icons of the times, don't end well. You can't take away from his heart and his game man. Guy's career average is something crazy like 27ppg despite his last few years. Jordan's avg was only 30ppg man.

[rodman91]

empty stats. AI cant make a team contender whereas cp3 can. Hes only lucky to have played in the weak east.

His weak team had same record with juggernaut Lakers of 01 in regular season.

In east he faced his rivals and as good as teams he had. He beat Vince Carter, Ray Allen (the original big three with Glen Robinson,Sam Cassell)

His team was the only team beat Lakers in a playoff game. (Kings,Blazers and even spurs got swept)

He scored more than 35 ppg in finals including famous 48 points rolling on NBA TV regularly.

He had 2 +50 points game, 4 +40 points game and 8 +30 game in one playoff run.

He won MVP, Allstar MVP and he was scoring and stealing leader in same season.

His best teammate was 35 years old Mutombo. (He was still decent but not like 90's Mutombo)

Mutombo
Tyron Hill
George Lynch
Allen Iverson
Eric Snow

Look at that starting 5.

[nathanjizzle]

id take ai over cp3.

[ILLsmak]

His weak team had same record with juggernaut Lakers of 01 in regular season.

In east he faced his rivals and as good as teams he had. He beat Vince Carter, Ray Allen (the original big three with Glen Robinson,Sam Cassell)

His team was the only team beat Lakers in a playoff game. (Kings,Blazers and even spurs got swept)

He scored more than 35 ppg in finals including famous 48 points rolling on NBA TV regularly.

He had 2 +50 points game, 4 +40 points game and 8 +30 game in one playoff run.

He won MVP, Allstar MVP and he was scoring and stealing leader in same season.

His best teammate was 35 years old Mutombo. (He was still decent but not like 90's Mutombo)

Mutombo
Tyron Hill
George Lynch
Allen Iverson
Eric Snow

Look at that starting 5.

Not only that but in the Finals they caught AI on some cheap fouls after that game 1.

AI was really, really good.

There is a different aspect to basketball that people don't understand. The reason why guys like Gary Payton, Allen Iverson,and Shaq can be considered, beyond their skills, even better is because they understood the mental aspect of the game. They were mentally tough and they psychologically dominated their opposition.

CP will do some dirty shit like punch you in the nuts or flop, but AI would just shit on you.

Anyone who thinks AI wouldn't make CP3 quit is crazy.

I'd say as good and as productive stat-wise that these guys (CP3, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash...) were, they don't compare to the guys like GP and Iverson just because they aren't as mentally tough.

BBall IQ should factor in mental toughness. Sometimes it's smart to make a bad play. If you rip the ball from the PG on the other team then go down and iso... crossing it over a few times and shoot a bad shot, that's a good move because it'll get the other PG mad. And dominating a team's PG is a sure fire way to win.

-Smak

[knicksman]

No disrespect but Ai did make his team contender. CP3 was traded out of hornets without bringing them anywhere close to the success of AI for Philly. The town loves Iverson like its son man - I don't see CP3 making this kind of impact to a franchise. In some ways I think Barkley was only half joking when he picked AI in that all time draft.

I mean, the fearlessness when AI broke MJ's ankle using the killer crossover - that's more charismatic than anything I've seen from whiny Chris Paul lmao.

I dont think that team is a contender. That team got wins because of the weak conference. In fact they struggled against the raptors and bucks. Whereas cp3 made hornets contender during 2008 in a tough western conference. After that the injury happens and so hes never been the same. Those sixers teams were really just the same as kidds nets or lebrons cavs. I dont consider them contenders despite being in the finals.

[Yanch856]

Not only that but in the Finals they caught AI on some cheap fouls after that game 1.

AI was really, really good.

There is a different aspect to basketball that people don't understand. The reason why guys like Gary Payton, Allen Iverson,and Shaq can be considered, beyond their skills, even better is because they understood the mental aspect of the game. They were mentally tough and they psychologically dominated their opposition.

CP will do some dirty shit like punch you in the nuts or flop, but AI would just shit on you.

Anyone who thinks AI wouldn't make CP3 quit is crazy.

I'd say as good and as productive stat-wise that these guys (CP3, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash...) were, they don't compare to the guys like GP and Iverson just because they aren't as mentally tough.

BBall IQ should factor in mental toughness. Sometimes it's smart to make a bad play. If you rip the ball from the PG on the other team then go down and iso... crossing it over a few times and shoot a bad shot, that's a good move because it'll get the other PG mad. And dominating a team's PG is a sure fire way to win.

-Smak

I agree with this. When you look at Iverson's career, he went to jail and was sentenced to 16yrs before going to Georgetown man. Not condoning violence or anything but to make it through that you'd have to be tough mentally. His game embodies that - attack the rim relentless, no quit, no fear. Knocked to the floor, you just get back up and keep going. You really can't compare this aspect of Iverson's game to the likes of Lebron, Wade, let alone CP3 and Griffin. Go watch Iverson in the finals 2000, then game 3 heat vs. pacers. LMAO.

[blablabla]

prime ai would be the best player in the nba right now

[Whoah10115]

I take Chris Paul over Allen Iverson in a second, for just about any reason.

[triangleoffense]

AI lead one of the worst teams to the Finals in NBA history. CP3, however, does hold the all-time single season steals record.

[CavaliersFTW]

Chris Flop would get embarrassed by prime AI

[kenny817]

empty stats. AI cant make a team contender whereas cp3 can. Hes only lucky to have played in the weak east.

You must be like 15 years old...sigh

He made it to The Finals where his second best player was like Aaron Mckey. I know I spelled his name incorrectly but he sucks so I don't care.

And AI had absolutely NO chance of beating the Lakers in The Finals. Dude was the perfect example of "no help"

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Lol how did I end up defending AI but, this coming from a Kobe stan is clearly biased.

You can't judge a man when he's down.

The problem with AI is that he was the cultural icon for the NBA in the early 2000s - single handedly introducing the hip hop era to the NBA, the cornrows, baggy pants, which, as with most icons of the times, don't end well. You can't take away from his heart and his game man. Guy's career average is something crazy like 27ppg despite his last few years. Jordan's avg was only 30ppg man.

I'm not a f**king Kobe Stan. I'm a Laker/Kobe fan. If you would read my other posts you would know that. You don't see me carrying on about Kobe being better than Jordan or calling him da gawd or any of that other bullshit.

Don't try to blame hip-hop for Iverson getting assed out of the league. AI dug his own grave with his attitude. He did have a lot of heart, what he was missing was brains. He fizzled out because of injuries and off the court drama.

Even if you forget all that stuff I still prefer CP3 to him and I'm not a Clippers or CP3 fan. 27ppg is great but I want a point guard that can run an offense. There's more to the game than scoring. Just real talk, if you disagree fine.

[wakencdukest]

AI was a great scorer. The problem with Iverson was that he wasn't a true point guard, so they had Eric Snow running the point. So you have 2 guys under 6'2 in the backcourt. Neither could guard most 2 guards, so there was always a mismatch. There's no doubt he was one of the greatest scorers ever though. I wouldn't put Chris Paul in his class just yet, but he's great in his own right.

[Whoah10115]

Chris Flop would get embarrassed by prime AI





Hard for the better player to get embarrassed.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well comparing the best player in current NBA to a cancer...
:facepalm

Anyway you've gotta appreciate how great a coach Larry Brown is. Apart from that title in 2004, he led the 76ers to NBA finals and more over, Bobcats to their one and only playoffs trip.
:bowdown:

[Eldrunko247]

Prime AI > CP3
CP3's prime was actually back when he was a Hornet. The series where they blew it against the Spurs. CP3 is not even better than Parker.

[miggyme1]

nobody who saw AI would do that... lol IMO.

I'm taking AI over everyone in the league right now except LeBron.

-Smak


Would u take ai over jordan? Please dont answer that. Please



Im taking jameer nelson ova dwade anyday

[Clippersfan86]

AI lead one of the worst teams to the Finals in NBA history. CP3, however, does hold the all-time single season steals record.

Big time revisionist history. Iverson had THE best defensive team built around him possible. He also had good role players like Aaron Mckie, Eric Snow, Kukoc around him scoring. Remember he had both Dikembe and Ratliff who are two of the greatest shotblockers in NBA history. Guys would would be winning DPOY awards every year in our current era.

Iverson did NOT carry a bunch of scrubs a la McGrady. He had an elite defensive team and a bunch of good role players who always stepped up.

[Clippersfan86]

I watched Allen Iverson as a young player paired up with Jerry Stackhouse, Derrick Coleman etc and he is nowhere near CP3. I know people like to have these nostalgic type opinions (I do it with Steve Francis :( ) but it's not reality. Iverson was a better volume scorer and it ends there. CP3 is a better defender, passer, rebounder and MUCH more efficient player. Then you go to intangibles and CP3 kills him on leadership, clutch, basketball IQ.

Hate to say it but this comparison isn't even fair for Iverson.

[heyhey]

I watched Allen Iverson as a young player paired up with Jerry Stackhouse, Derrick Coleman etc and he is nowhere near CP3. I know people like to have these nostalgic type opinions (I do it with Steve Francis :( ) but it's not reality. Iverson was a better volume scorer and it ends there. CP3 is a better defender, passer, rebounder and MUCH more efficient player. Then you go to intangibles and CP3 kills him on leadership, clutch, basketball IQ.

Hate to say it but this comparison isn't even fair for Iverson.

AI played in the handcheck era and also played in the zone+handcheck era. his efficiency soared after handcheck was abolished even after his prime

hard to compare efficiency across era especially when one is playing in offensively depressed decade

[IGOTGAME]

A shortened season and an easy trip to the finals by AI obviously has you blinded. CP3 has it all over AI. What did AI do outside of his one trip to the finals.

what has CP3 done besides get shut down in the playoffs again?

this is a historical beatdown that is happening right now. They absolutely destroying CP3...this is on some all time ass whooping type of shit.

[necya]

making a thread like this IS ridiculous. i take CP3 without thinking twice.

[IGOTGAME]

making a thread like this IS ridiculous. i take CP3 without thinking twice.

yep. guy is getting shit on again. this is worst than when Dahntay Jones did it last time.

[rodman91]

Big time revisionist history. Iverson had THE best defensive team built around him possible. He also had good role players like Aaron Mckie, Eric Snow, Kukoc around him scoring. Remember he had both Dikembe and Ratliff who are two of the greatest shotblockers in NBA history. Guys would would be winning DPOY awards every year in our current era.

Iverson did NOT carry a bunch of scrubs a la McGrady. He had an elite defensive team and a bunch of good role players who always stepped up.

Kukoc & Ratliff were traded for Mutombo that season. :facepalm

Another biased post.

[Mach_3]

AI played in the handcheck era and also played in the zone+handcheck era. his efficiency soared after handcheck was abolished even after his prime

hard to compare efficiency across era especially when one is playing in offensively depressed decade
Duude would have been even more unstoppable in this no handcheck, touch foul era. He put up like 26 and 8 sharing the rock with melo AFTER he had lost a step, prime allen iverson would destroy this league :roll:

[Clippersfan86]

AI played in the handcheck era and also played in the zone+handcheck era. his efficiency soared after handcheck was abolished even after his prime

hard to compare efficiency across era especially when one is playing in offensively depressed decade

Yup but Iverson is the better scorer period in terms of putting up points. He's worse at everything else though. Would you take Iverson over Isiah Thomas, John Stockton? If not.. then you aren't taking him over CP3. This is an overreaction because CP3's CLEARLY been affected by these groin injuries and is getting owned by the Spurs defense.

Not a fair time to assess the guy when the 4 games prior to his injury vs Memphis the guy was putting up 23.5 ppg, 5 rpg, 9 apg, 3 spg on elite efficiency. Literally the game he got injured you saw an IMMEDIATE drop off and he hasn't been the same since. Same for Griffin pretty much.

Everybody is banged up but not a single team in the NBA has it's two franchise/star players with injuries right now that would have them sitting at least a few games in the regular season. NOBODY. Then you factor in Mo Williams hand injury, Butler's broken hand and you see how bad the team is hurting.

That's the two franchise players, 3rd best player and 6th man all carrying significant injuries.

[Clippersfan86]

Kukoc & Ratliff were traded for Mutombo that season. :facepalm

Another biased post.

Not biased, just honest mistake and loss of memory. Regardless the point still stands. Iverson had the 5th ranked defense in the NBA and a bunch of capable role players. Not to mention his competition in 01 on the path to the finals was pretty damn weak.

[IGOTGAME]

Yup but Iverson is the better scorer period in terms of putting up points. He's worse at everything else though. Would you take Iverson over Isiah Thomas, John Stockton? If not.. then you aren't taking him over CP3. This is an overreaction because CP3's CLEARLY been affected by these groin injuries and is getting owned by the Spurs defense.

Isiah Thomas is better than CP3. Yes, I would take AI over John Stockton. Stockton is overrated here.

[RaininTwos]

what has CP3 done besides get shut down in the playoffs again?

this is a historical beatdown that is happening right now. They absolutely destroying CP3...this is on some all time ass whooping type of shit.
:roll: :roll:

so true

[Clippersfan86]

Isiah Thomas is better than CP3. Yes, I would take AI over John Stockton. Stockton is overrated here.

:oldlol: . You never fail to deliver. CP3 has often been called a more efficient Isiah. You'd take Iverson over Stockton? :roll: :roll:

[IGOTGAME]

:oldlol: . You never fail to deliver. CP3 has often been called a more efficient Isiah. You'd take Iverson over Stockton? :roll: :roll:

Isiah also didn't get shut down like this. He also was good enough against the BEST defenses to win titles.

Stockton was steady for a long period of time but was never a top 5 player in the NBA. AI was a top 5 player for a long period of time. Give me a solid #1 over a guy who couldn't win as a number 2.

[rodman91]

MVP.

6th best ppg in regular season history. (It was 3rd before traded to Detroit)

2nd best ppg in playoffs history.

4 time scoring champion.

Most 50 point games in playoffs except Jordan & Wilt.

35.4 ppg in finals.

Peak stats in one season : 33.0 ppg & 7.1 apg

Career stats (regular season) : 26.7 ppg 6.2 apg 2.2 spg

Career stats (playoffs) : 29.7 ppg 6.0 apg

ISH = Where ESPN happens.

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/15/1d1a6946a3954130b7d234b27dd199dc/l.jpg

[BGriffin's Dad]

AI is much like Lebron... the body and physical tools to dominate... but not the mentality of a winner, nor the basketball IQ...

CP3 is the far better floor general, he gets his teammates involved more, he's a much better passer and defender, more steals, etc.

[StateOfMind12]

I would take CP3 over Iverson quite easily in their primes and peaks. Iverson may have had the better career though and may be ranked higher in the all-time list though.

Scoring is the only advantage Iverson has over CP3 and that was it. Can any of you guys think of anything else Iverson had over CP3? If not, how is taking Iverson over CP3 any different than taking Arenas over CP3?

[IGOTGAME]

I would take CP3 over Iverson quite easily in their primes and peaks. Iverson may have had the better career though and may be ranked higher in the all-time list though.

Scoring is the only advantage Iverson has over CP3 and that was it. Can any of you guys think of anything else Iverson had over CP3? If not, how is taking Iverson over CP3 any different than taking Arenas over CP3?

based on this comparison with Arenas, it is quite obvious you missed a great deal of Iverson's career.

CP3 has been shut down twice now! let's not forget that. What happened in Denver was a total meltdown.

What is happening right now is a guy just getting taken apart by a defense.

Don't remember AI getting taken apart like that in the playoffs.

So, what does AI have over CP3...the ability to bring his game with him as he advances in the playoffs. CP3 just gets shut down when the defense steps up...He then turns passive and everyone blames his teammates.

[ProfessorMurder]

CP3 has it all over AI. What did AI do outside of his one trip to the finals.

What did CP3 do other than one trip to the conference finals? *edit: I'm retarded and CP3 only made it to the WCSF.


AI played with passion and I'd take him over whiny bitch CP3 every day.

[tpols]

AI is much like Lebron... the body and physical tools to dominate... but not the mentality of a winner, nor the basketball IQ...

CP3 is the far better floor general, he gets his teammates involved more, he's a much better passer and defender, more steals, etc.
WTF?:oldlol: AI is the OPPOSITE of Lebron.. he was a player at a physical disadvantage compared to the rest of the league(6'0 170lbs) who was successful purely because of his heart, skill, and desire to win.

[tpols]

I would take CP3 over Iverson quite easily in their primes and peaks. Iverson may have had the better career though and may be ranked higher in the all-time list though.

Scoring is the only advantage Iverson has over CP3 and that was it. Can any of you guys think of anything else Iverson had over CP3? If not, how is taking Iverson over CP3 any different than taking Arenas over CP3?
Scoring is probably the only thing Kobe has over CP3 relative to their positions. Same thing with Dirk. Scoring is pretty big. And the gap between AI's scoring and CP's is bigger than any other gap between the two.

[tpols]

What did CP3 do other than one trip to the conference finals?


AI played with passion and I'd take him over whiny bitch CP3 every day.
CP3 has never made a conference Finals.:oldlol:

[Clippersfan86]

Love how you guys use the one finals run as some sort of trump card in this debate. If Iverson played competition CP3 has had to play in his playoff experience.. the result would be the same or worse. Iverson had as easy a path to the finals as it gets pretty much.

You guys may need to touch up on history here and remember just how bad the eastern conference was in 01. Only other really good team in the east IMO was the Bucks with Allen, Cassell and Robinson. This was before the Pistons got really good, in a Pacers down era just in between finals team and low seed in playoffs.

[ProfessorMurder]

CP3 has never made a conference Finals.:oldlol:

:hammerhead: I thought that Spurs/Hornets series was for some reason. That's even worse, 2nd round :oldlol:

[qrich]

AI on the current Clippers wouldn't make the team better. Obviously don't watch the Clippers much, they need a guy who is known for facilitating and aren't full of superb defenders that can cover AI's lack of D.

[Stern]

What has Chris Fall done other than revolutinize flopping?

[StateOfMind12]

Scoring is probably the only thing Kobe has over CP3 relative to their positions. Same thing with Dirk. Scoring is pretty big. And the gap between AI's scoring and CP's is bigger than any other gap between the two.
Kobe was better than CP3 at like everything except passing/playmaking/facilitating. Iverson's only advantage over CP3 was scoring and that was it.


based on this comparison with Arenas, it is quite obvious you missed a great deal of Iverson's career.

CP3 has been shut down twice now! let's not forget that. What happened in Denver was a total meltdown.

What is happening right now is a guy just getting taken apart by a defense.

Don't remember AI getting taken apart like that in the playoffs.

So, what does AI have over CP3...the ability to bring his game with him as he advances in the playoffs. CP3 just gets shut down when the defense steps up...He then turns passive and everyone blames his teammates.
The analogy was based on how both of those players' only advantage over CP3 was scoring. Again, what exactly did Iverson do better than CP3 besides score?

And why are you bringing up the playoffs? Iverson has had as many great post-season runs in his career as CP3 has had in his career.

[Clippersfan86]

Kobe was better than CP3 at like everything except passing/playmaking/facilitating. Iverson's only advantage over CP3 was scoring and that was it.


The analogy was based on how both of those players' only advantage over CP3 was scoring. Again, what exactly did Iverson do better than CP3 besides score?

And why are you bringing up the playoffs? The only good playoff run Iverson had in the playoffs was in 2001. CP3 played great in the post-season in the 2008 and 2011 playoffs.

Exactly. ONLY edge Iverson has is scoring. Sure it's a significant one but not nearly enough to offset the defense, rebounding, passing, intangibles edge CP3 has. CP3's IQ, leadership,clutch set him apart even when you don't include superior defense, rebounding and passing.

[Bigsmoke]

You must be like 15 years old...sigh

He made it to The Finals where his second best player was like Aaron Mckey. I know I spelled his name incorrectly but he sucks so I don't care.

And AI had absolutely NO chance of beating the Lakers in The Finals. Dude was the perfect example of "no help"

what about the Dikembe Mutombo


When you think about it, the Sixers have everything better than the Lakers besides a better center and they have the 2nd best center in the NBA in Dikembe Mutombo

[JohnnyWall]

AI could ballhog and be the one-man scoring option, but CP3 can actually, you know, run an offense.

That's why AI belonged at the 2 with a real PG at the 1.

[Gifted Mind]

Big time revisionist history. Iverson had THE best defensive team built around him possible. He also had good role players like Aaron Mckie, Eric Snow, Kukoc around him scoring. Remember he had both Dikembe and Ratliff who are two of the greatest shotblockers in NBA history. Guys would would be winning DPOY awards every year in our current era.

Iverson did NOT carry a bunch of scrubs a la McGrady. He had an elite defensive team and a bunch of good role players who always stepped up.
The irony in this post. Accuses someone else of 'revisionist history' and revises history so that Iverson had Dikembe and Ratliff playing with him at the same time. :facepalm

Let this be another example why quickly glancing at basketball-reference is not sufficient to make a solid argument. I would advise others to refrain themselves from doing this.

[ProfessorMurder]

what about the Dikembe Mutombo


When you think about it, the Sixers have everything better than the Lakers besides a better center and they have the 2nd best center in the NBA in Dikembe Mutombo

If Shaq wasn't allowed to elbow Mutombo in the grill every time down the court Philly could've taken at least another game or two.

[IGOTGAME]

The analogy was based on how both of those players' only advantage over CP3 was scoring. Again, what exactly did Iverson do better than CP3 besides score?

And why are you bringing up the playoffs? Iverson has had as many great post-season runs in his career as CP3 has had in his career.

1)get to the basket and finish. having someone who can get to the basket at will is one of the most valuable traits in the nba...

2) not get passive and fold when the defense tightens up. Ask Hornets fans about this.

CP3 has never had a great post season run...so that isn't true.

[Clippersfan86]

The irony in this post. Accuses someone else of 'revisionist history' and revises history so that Iverson had Dikembe and Ratliff playing with him at the same time. :facepalm

Let this be another example why quickly glancing at basketball-reference is not sufficient to make a solid argument. I would advise others to refrain themselves from doing this.

Actually I didn't look it up. I remember that entire roster for the most part... I simply made a mistake, so shoot me. Which I already admitted I was wrong. It has absolutely zero affect on the point of my post unless you're a lawyer and running with the whole idea of if you pick one hole in my story, all of it is wrong.

Sixers were a top 5 defense and had a perfect compliment of players around Iverson. The whole "Iverson carried a scrub team" has been disproven a million times. How many DPOY awards did Dikembe win? 4? I mean the guy was out of his prime but still a VERY good defender at that age. Eric Snow was a defensive minded PG who I believe made all defensive team once or twice and was a very solid all around PG and perfect backcourt mate.

[GOBB]

Eric Snow couldnt start on any team besides the Sixers (and Cavs). Funny that AI and Bron led two teams to the Finals where you ask "How?!".

He had no business starting. None.


The irony in this post. Accuses someone else of 'revisionist history' and revises history so that Iverson had Dikembe and Ratliff playing with him at the same time. :facepalm

Let this be another example why quickly glancing at basketball-reference is not sufficient to make a solid argument. I would advise others to refrain themselves from doing this.

Owned.

[Bigsmoke]

If Shaq wasn't allowed to elbow Mutombo in the grill every time down the court Philly could've taken at least another game or two.

and Mutombo averaged like 16/12 in that series didnt he?

Iverson had no help! :rolleyes:

Iverson's 2001 were one of the more loaded teams in the NBA that year. They didnt have scorers but they were a cast of players that know there roles and play very defense and who love to pass and share the ball. Iverson would go off one game and then go like 25 on 7-26 shooting the next two games.

Give the Bucks or the Raptors Mutombo and you would see them going to the Finals instead.

[StateOfMind12]

1)get to the basket and finish. having someone who can get to the basket at will is one of the most valuable traits in the nba...

2) not get passive and fold when the defense tightens up. Ask Hornets fans about this.

CP3 has never had a great post season run...so that isn't true.
1. That is the same thing as scoring.

2. Yeah, because Chris Paul really disappears in the closing seconds of games. :rolleyes:

I advise you to check out what CP3 did in the 2008 and 2011 post-season.

[Clippersfan86]

Eric Snow couldnt start on any team besides the Sixers (and Cavs). Funny that AI and Bron led two teams to the Finals where you ask "How?!".

He had no business starting. None.



Owned.

Anytime anybody insults me it's getting "owned" to you :oldlol: . So sad that you hate me enough to be that delusional. Eric Snow put up 10 ppg, 7.5 apg, 1.5 spg on only less than 9 shots a game. As I said he was a DEFENSIVE PG and has made all defense NBA team. He was not the best PG but he could be considered solid and a perfect compliment next to a SG who wants 20-25 shots a game.

[Clippersfan86]

and Mutombo averaged like 16/12 in that series didnt he?

Iverson had no help! :rolleyes:

Iverson's 2001 were one of the more loaded teams in the NBA that year. They didnt have scorers but they were a cast of players that know there roles and play very defense and who love to pass and share the ball. Iverson would go off one game and then go like 25 on 7-26 shooting the next two games.

Give the Bucks or the Raptors Mutombo and you would see them going to the Finals instead.

Yup :applause: . People seem to only value offense when comparing individual players. Which is why guys like Ben Wallace get so overlooked.

[qrich]

Man, can you imagine how irrelevant Blake would be with AI being the point guard and how many points Conley and Mayo would've dropped in Round 1.

I'm fine if you think AI >> Paul, but there is no way in hell, if you were to just simply swap the two, that the Clippers would be doing any better.

[IGOTGAME]

1. That is the same thing as scoring.

2. Yeah, because Chris Paul really disappears in the closing seconds of games. :rolleyes:

I advise you to check out what CP3 did in the 2008 and 2011 post-season.

you need to check out what happened when he played the Nuggets and what is happening now. Those are far more telling then what he did against a team that eventually got sweep because they couldn't stop JJ Barea on the pick and roll.

And the CP3 of 2008 is gone and is never coming back. He died after that knee surgery. Sorry it was a great one year stint but that isn't how we judge players.

[ILLsmak]

AI on the current Clippers wouldn't make the team better. Obviously don't watch the Clippers much, they need a guy who is known for facilitating and aren't full of superb defenders that can cover AI's lack of D.

I bet he would man... lol

I don't think AI was bad at D, either, just like I said before, scoring on someone is D in itself. If you start putting 30+ on the other PG he's going to be taken out of his game more than someone like CP can do by flopping.

-Smak

[Bigsmoke]

1)get to the basket and finish. having someone who can get to the basket at will is one of the most valuable traits in the nba...

2) not get passive and fold when the defense tightens up. Ask Hornets fans about this.

CP3 has never had a great post season run...so that isn't true.

lets look back


2008= torched Jason Kidd the Mavs and then took the defending champs to 7 games. His numbers were 24/11/5 on 50% shooting in that playoffs run

2009= CP3 and his Hornets team were banged up going agaisnt the Nuggets who were just flat out better.

2011= Lakers were clearly better but CP3 was the best player in that series by far

Right now = Barkley said it himself that CP3 was the reason why the Clippers were able to get past the Grizz... too bad he is hurt now.

[Clippersfan86]

I bet he would man... lol

I don't think AI was bad at D, either, just like I said before, scoring on someone is D in itself. If you start putting 30+ on the other PG he's going to be taken out of his game more than someone like CP can do by flopping.

-Smak

:wtf:

[StateOfMind12]

you need to check out what happened when he played the Nuggets and what is happening now. Those are far more telling then what he did against a team that eventually got sweep because they couldn't stop JJ Barea on the pick and roll.

And the CP3 of 2008 is gone and is never coming back. He died after that knee surgery. Sorry it was a great one year stint but that isn't how we judge players.
I was talking about how Chris Paul at his very best/peak was better than Iverson at his very best/peak so bringing up Chris Paul in 2008 is valid since that was his absolute best season.

Chris Paul in 2008 was just a better player than Allen Iverson was in 2001 or Allen Iverson any other season really. Chris Paul in 2008 probably has the 2nd greatest peak of a PG of all-time only to be behind Magic Johnson.

Chris Paul dominated the Mavericks and the Spurs in that post-season. I know he lost to the Spurs in 7 that post-season but it was hardly his fault.

[qrich]

I bet he would man... lol

I don't think AI was bad at D, either, just like I said before, scoring on someone is D in itself. If you start putting 30+ on the other PG he's going to be taken out of his game more than someone like CP can do by flopping.

-Smak

Blake with AI. Invisible.

Young, Foye, Mo Gotti with AI. Dropping the ball when they get a pass because they are simply waiting for AI to shoot and play D.

DeAndre with AI. Even more useless on offense.

AI is best with a team of superb defenders around him and, sans Martin, Clippers don't have any. Second best would be Bledsoe and he has a ways to go.

[Yanch856]

I'm watching the clippers in this playoffs and all I can say is there is no way chris paul passes the eyeball test if you are talking about being more dominant than AI. Observations:

1. AI played a much faster game than chris paul. That is AI's biggest weapon, being faster than any player on the floor.
2. AI's cross over was legendary - Chris paul does not have anything close to the signature move that is AI's cross over. I would put it on the same level as Dirk's one-legged fadeaway.
3. You can see the sixers won games because AI carried them. He drilled the crucial shots, drove to the rim at will.
4. You don't hear commentators having orgasmic outbursts over Chris Paul like, "Allen Iverson is the man!"
5. Don't forget Allen Iverson has a MVP.

[Clippersfan86]

lets look back


2008= torched Jason Kidd the Mavs and then took the defending champs to 7 games. His numbers were 24/11/5 on 50% shooting in that playoffs run

2009= CP3 and his Hornets team were banged up going agaisnt the Nuggets who were just flat out better.

2011= Lakers were clearly better but CP3 was the best player in that series by far

Right now = Barkley said it himself that CP3 was the reason why they were able to get past the Grizz... too bad he is hurt now.

Besides as many posters have pointed out CP3 has a top 5 playoff PER in NBA history. Was number 3 going into this years playoff run. Prior to the injury the guy was dropping 23.5, 5, 9 and 3 on great efficiency vs Memphis and a very good defensive team/PG.

Immediately following injury his stats plummet. Starting with 3 terrible games vs Memphis to end series and now continuing to Spurs. You don't think it has anything to do with the injury guys?

[NugzHeat3]

you need to check out what happened when he played the Nuggets and what is happening now. Those are far more telling then what he did against a team that eventually got sweep because they couldn't stop JJ Barea on the pick and roll.

And the CP3 of 2008 is gone and is never coming back. He died after that knee surgery. Sorry it was a great one year stint but that isn't how we judge players.
He's injured. He was doing very well before the injury late in game 5 vs Memphis when he pulled his groin. He's lacking explosion + the Spurs are playing great defense determined to get the ball out of his hands as well as trapping and shadowing him. Admittedly, he's made some poor decisions to which can be credited to the defense and Spurs know limiting Chris Paul is the best way of limiting the Clipps' offense.

Also, he played great against the Spurs back in the 2008 playoffs when they were a much better defensive team (top 3 to be exact) than they are now. He did great numbers in that series.

23.7 ppg
4.4 rpg
10.7 apg
2.6 spg
50.4 FG%
2.3 turnovers/game

[Clippersfan86]

He's injured. He was doing very well before the injury late in game 5 vs Memphis when he pulled his groin. He's lacking explosion + the Spurs are playing great defense determined to get the ball out of his hands as well as trapping and shadowing him. Admittedly, he's made some poor decisions to which can be credited to the defense and Spurs know limiting Chris Paul is the best way of limiting the Clipps' offense.

Also, he played great against the Spurs back in the 2008 playoffs when they were a much better defensive team (top 3 to be exact) than they are now. He did great numbers in that series.

23.7 ppg
4.4 rpg
10.7 apg
2.6 spg
50.4 FG%
2.3 turnovers/game

:applause:

[Bigsmoke]

I'm watching the clippers in this playoffs and all I can say is there is no way chris paul passes the eyeball test if you are talking about being more dominant than AI. Observations:

1. AI played a much faster game than chris paul. That is AI's biggest weapon, being faster than any player on the floor.
2. AI's cross over was legendary - Chris paul does not have anything close to the signature move that is AI's cross over. I would put it on the same level as Dirk's one-legged fadeaway.
3. You can see the sixers won games because AI carried them. He drilled the crucial shots, drove to the rim at will.
4. You don't hear commentators having orgasmic outbursts over Chris Paul like, "Allen Iverson is the man!"
5. Don't forget Allen Iverson has a MVP.

CP3 is more skilled players. AI have flasher crossovers. good for him. He turns the ball over a lot too

Iverson's crossover weren't like Dirk's one legged fadeaway, If it was then he wouldnt be shooting such a low FG%

Sixers anchor was on defense. they dont just rely on Iverson's greatness like the Raptors did with Vince Carter that very same year or the Magic did when they had Tmac. If anything, you should give Larry Brown credit. Larry Brown even won a championship with a completely different team just 3 years later while Iverson couldnt even get out the first round since Larry Brown left.

Iverson's MVP was bullshit. Shaq was better and more deserving.

[ILLsmak]

Blake with AI. Invisible.

Young, Foye, Mo Gotti with AI. Dropping the ball when they get a pass because they are simply waiting for AI to shoot and play D.

DeAndre with AI. Even more useless on offense.

AI is best with a team of superb defenders around him and, sans Martin, Clippers don't have any. Second best would be Bledsoe and he has a ways to go.

Mo was playing great with Bron getting him easy looks, why would it be different for AI? The main difference between AI and Bron is that Bron is 6'8 and AI is more crafty at getting to the rim. They basically play the same role.

CP3 isn't some god level defender either.

Bet anything AI would be pushing that shit and getting Blake and Jordan easy dunks. AI was a warrior, he had ridiculous stamina. I think he would shine on the Clips.

I can't imagine why he wouldn't. People think that these players can't adjust their game?

-Smak

[Clippersfan86]

CP3 is more skilled players. AI have flasher crossovers. good for him. He turns the ball over a lot too

Iverson's crossover weren't like Dirk's one legged fadeaway, If it was then he wouldnt be shooting such a low FG%

Sixers anchor was on defense. they dont just rely on Iverson's greatness like the Raptors did with Vince Carter that very same year or the Magic did when they had Tmac. If anything, you should give Larry Brown credit. Larry Brown even won a championship with a completely different team just 3 years later while Iverson couldnt even get out the first round since Larry Brown left.

Iverson's MVP was bullshit. Shaq was better and more deserving.

Yup. I'm absolutely appalled that Shaq doesn't have 3-4 MVP's when he was CLEARLY the most valuable player in the NBA. It's one of those things where awards became more like an IOU system.

[ILLsmak]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_per_g_career_p.html


if you wanna talk about playoffs...

-Smak

[Bigsmoke]

Mo was playing great with Bron getting him easy looks, why would it be different for AI? The main difference between AI and Bron is that Bron is 6'8 and AI is more crafty at getting to the rim. They basically play the same role.

CP3 isn't some god level defender either.



LBJ >>>>>>> Iverson

[rodman91]

and Mutombo averaged like 16/12 in that series didnt he?

Iverson had no help! :rolleyes:

Iverson's 2001 were one of the more loaded teams in the NBA that year. They didnt have scorers but they were a cast of players that know there roles and play very defense and who love to pass and share the ball. Iverson would go off one game and then go like 25 on 7-26 shooting the next two games.

Give the Bucks or the Raptors Mutombo and you would see them going to the Finals instead.

Raptors :

Antonio Davis
Charles Oakley
Alvin Williams
Vince Carter
Chris Childs

Bucks:

Earvin Johnson
Tim Thomas
Glenn Robinson
Ray Allen
Sam Cassell

Sixers:

Dikembe Mutombo
Tyrone Hill
George Lynch
Allen Iverson
Eric Snow

All teams were weak compared to West but they were almost equal to each other. Sixers had better rim protector other teams had better scorers.

Also Shaq destroyed Mutombo..so 16/12 means nothing in those series. He was supposed to defend Shaq, tried but couldn't. Shaq almost scored 20 points more than Mutombo in those series.:lol

Iverson had 2 50 points games, 4 40 points games and 8 30 points games in that playoff run... Stop spamming bullshit. NBATV is rolling Iverson vs Carter, Iverson vs Lakers for a reason even though he couldn't win championship.There is a reason for that.:facepalm

[Yanch856]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_per_g_career_p.html


if you wanna talk about playoffs...

-Smak

Lol AI is second after Jordan.
You don't need this statistics to tell you this - you only have to watch AI in the playoffs to see he's stepping up and being unstoppable.

[Bigsmoke]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_per_g_career_p.html


if you wanna talk about playoffs...

-Smak

29ppg on 27 shots, 40% shooting

what does minutes per game has to do with greatness? :confusedshrug:

that just means he he gets bounced out in the first round often.

[chocolatethunder]

Yes AI. If you've watched him play during those philly years man... the year he won the MVP, hands down incredible. Down something like 40 points against the bucks, coming back. Stepping over Lue in game 1. Hell yeah. AI is a baller straight up.

CP3 flops so bad - you're talking about the ultimate anti-CP3 when it comes to AI lol. I remember him playing with something crazy like 13 injuries.
AI made flopping an art long before CP3. If anyone came near AI he'd flail his arms around like a baby. The revisionist history about AI on this board is insane. He had a great year his MVP season. Never practiced never worked on his ge and was a shitty defender.

[Bigsmoke]

Raptors :

Antonio Davis
Charles Oakley
Alvin Williams
Vince Carter
Chris Childs

Bucks:

Earvin Johnson
Tim Thomas
Glenn Robinson
Ray Allen
Sam Cassell

Sixers:

Dikembe Mutombo
Tyrone Hill
George Lynch
Allen Iverson
Eric Snow

All teams were weak compared to West but they were almost equal to each other. Sixers had better rim protector other teams had better scorers.

Also Shaq destroyed Mutombo..so 16/12 means nothing in those series. He was supposed to defend Shaq, tried but couldn't. Shaq almost scored 20 points more than Mutombo in those series.:lol

Iverson had 2 50 points games, 4 40 points games and 8 30 points games in that playoff run... Stop spamming bullshit. NBATV is rolling Iverson vs Carter, Iverson vs Lakers for a reason even though he couldn't win championship.There is a reason for that.:facepalm

Vince Carter had a few 50 points games too.

Iverson sqaud looks good compared to Vince Carter's but yet it took him 7 games to knock the Raptors out?

The Raptors with Mutombo = Finals
Bucks with Mutombo = Finals and maybe even taking that series to 6 if not 7 games.

[rodman91]

Vince Carter had a few 50 points games too.

Iverson sqaud looks good compared to Vince Carter's but yet it took him 7 games to knock the Raptors out?

The Raptors with Mutombo = Finals
Bucks with Mutombo = Finals and maybe even taking that series to 6 if not 7 games.

Carter had one 50 point game.He played very good in series as well. That's not the issue though.

First of all Antonio Davis was better than Mutombo in Sixers vs Raptors.

Bucks had already as good as or better roster than Sixers.

Also Mutombo couldn't do anything against Shaq at all. He has been dunked on several times. He couldn't make a difference. They have won one game (only game lakers lost postseason) just because of Iverson's legendary performance. Even in that game Shaq had +40 points and +20 rebounds on Mutombo.

[Bigsmoke]

Carter had one 50 point game.He played very good in series as well. That's not the issue though.

First of all Antonio Davis was better than Mutombo in Sixers vs Raptors.

Bucks had already as good as or better roster than Sixers.

Also Mutombo couldn't do anything against Shaq at all. He has been dunked on several times. He couldn't make a difference. They have won one game (only game lakers lost postseason) just because of Iverson's legendary performance. Even in that game Shaq had +40 points and +20 rebounds on Mutombo.


Bucks had the worst frontcourt in ECFs history. They just 3 20ppg scorers and you making out to be like they were really loaded or something. Iverson's sixers were more better.

[GOBB]

Blake with AI. Invisible.

Based on what? The only comparable talent AI has ever played with in regards to Blake Griffin happens to be Carmelo Anthony. How did his game exactly suffer or disappear? :confusedshrug:

To think AI couldnt beast with Blake is hilarious. Its based off a rep where people throw out names like Kukoc, Big Dog, Tim Thomas, Hughes as a way of saying AI couldnt play with them therefore he cant play with talented stars. Yet he went to Denver and I noticed AI took less shots, was more efficient and avg more assists. But I'm sure people will criticize AI stint in Denver "He held onto the ball too long, he didnt make everyone better".

This idea AI doesnt pass, isnt a playmaker, cant play with a star talent the caliber of Blake and better? Bogus. He could. AI has had teams built around him like Bron...a bunch of dependant players where there was no complimentary star by their side.

And what Pgs abused AI to the point they scored so many buckets? Conley/Mayo are no threats to Allen Iverson when it comes to AI playing defense. None.

[GOBB]

Vince Carter had a few 50 points games too.

Iverson sqaud looks good compared to Vince Carter's but yet it took him 7 games to knock the Raptors out?

The Raptors with Mutombo = Finals
Bucks with Mutombo = Finals and maybe even taking that series to 6 if not 7 games.

So you are admitting the Sixers that year minus AI wasnt worth writing home too. Mutombo was a rebounder/defender. Whatever offense you got from him was cool, but if you looked for him to be that 2nd scorer. That guy you dump it into the post? You're fooling yourself. He had hands of stone when it came to recieving passes which is weird given he grabbed quite a bit of rebounds.

[rodman91]

Bucks had no center

They had Earvin Johnson. He was poor man's Mutombo. He couldn't score but he was good at defense & rebounding.

[qrich]

Based on what? The only comparable talent AI has ever played with in regards to Blake Griffin happens to be Carmelo Anthony. How did his game exactly suffer or disappear? :confusedshrug:

To think AI couldnt beast with Blake is hilarious. Its based off a rep where people throw out names like Kukoc, Big Dog, Tim Thomas, Hughes as a way of saying AI couldnt play with them therefore he cant play with talented stars. Yet he went to Denver and I noticed AI took less shots, was more efficient and avg more assists. But I'm sure people will criticize AI stint in Denver "He held onto the ball too long, he didnt make everyone better".

This idea AI doesnt pass, isnt a playmaker, cant play with a star talent the caliber of Blake and better? Bogus. He could. AI has had teams built around him like Bron...a bunch of dependant players where there was no complimentary star by their side.

And what Pgs abused AI to the point they scored so many buckets? Conley/Mayo are no threats to Allen Iverson when it comes to AI playing defense. None.

Based on the fact that Blake, with his current game, needs to be spoon fed most of his points and with AI, compared to Chris Paul, it'll be more difficult. Sure, he put up 22/12 his rookie year with Mo Williams, Randy Foye, Baron Davis being his point guards, but that was before he was being game planned against. Maybe invisible was taking it too far, but he won't be nearly as effective. It isn't a knock on AI's skill in the slightest, just that Paul is the better facilitator of the two. On top of that, Melo's repertoire on offense is greater to that of Blake's, so that isn't that great of a comparison.

I just don't think this Clippers team, with AI, instead of CP3 would be as good, why is that such a hard concept to grasp? I already said I don't care if you think AI is the superior player, he probably is higher on All-Time lists as of now, doesn't make him a better fit.

AI - Foye - Butler - Blake - Jordan

v

Paul - Foye - Butler - Blake - Jordan

Give me the latter. Just like I'd take AI over CP on that finals run team.

[GOBB]

I just don't think this Clippers team, with AI, instead of CP3 would be as good, why is that such a hard concept to grasp? .

You said Blake with AI would be invisible. Thats completely untrue.

[qrich]

You said Blake with AI would be invisible. Thats completely untrue.

And I also admitted that was taking it way too far.

[GOBB]

And I also admitted that was taking it way too far.

After the fact. Not sure why that would matter when your whole "whats so hard to grasp?" is directed at my initial reply to you. Maybe when you admitted you took that way to far you wouldnt have asked me such a question. and Blake would be effective alongside AI. Agree to disagree.

[Clippersfan86]

I actually hate having to agree with GOBB but I think Iverson WOULD thrive next to Griffin pretty damn well. Sure the team takes a hit with playmaking but think of it this way. Bledsoe+Iverson would form an amazing backcourt IMO. Undersized but Bledsoe+Iverson ballhawking on D? Then you throw in the fact that Iverson would be THE undisputed go to scorer and Blake could just feed off what the defense gives him?

Bledsoe
Iverson
Butler
Griffin
DJ

would be a NASTY team IMO on both ends.

[caliman]

They had Earvin Johnson. He was poor man's Mutombo. He couldn't score but he was good at defense & rebounding.


A very, very, very poor man.

[chazzy]

this is worst than when Dahntay Jones did it last time.
I don't get why this isn't brought up more. That was CP3 in one of his peak seasons

[rodman91]

A very, very, very poor man.

He had 6 ppg 11 rpg 2 bpg in playoffs. Much better than Heat centers :lol

[longtime lurker]

I take Iverson, Chris Paul has nice stats but hasn't show me much in terms of playoff impact where careers are made. Iverson is more of a scoring guard than true pg but he's still put up impressive numbers, has an mvp, finals trip and you know he's a guy you can go to war with. The problem with Iverson is that he's its incredibly hard to build a team around him, which really isn't any indicment in him. I have no doubt if he had teamed up with Kevin Garnett they would have made history.

[magnax1]

AI is the better shooting guard, and overall player given the right situation. CP3 is the more productive point guard though.

[Darius]

SMH at this thread.

Chris Paul is playing injured.

He has a strained groin.

That's the main reason he is playing badly.

That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

[Darius]

Regarding Griffin/AI, however, I think they'd play pretty well together.

[rodman91]

I actually hate having to agree with GOBB but I think Iverson WOULD thrive next to Griffin pretty damn well. Sure the team takes a hit with playmaking but think of it this way. Bledsoe+Iverson would form an amazing backcourt IMO. Undersized but Bledsoe+Iverson ballhawking on D? Then you throw in the fact that Iverson would be THE undisputed go to scorer and Blake could just feed off what the defense gives him?

Bledsoe
Iverson
Butler
Griffin
DJ

would be a NASTY team IMO on both ends.

Iverson's playmaking & passing abilities ofter underrated because of his scoring. He came to league as PG and later used as SG.. then again PG. He was getting something around 7 apg when he was playing PG. Also he was interested at lobs... I do believe they would decent duo with Griffin.

People likes to compare Iverson and Paul based on their height.Iverson was combo guard but playing like a PG. But in reality:

Iverson was Rose & Westbrook type of player.

Paul is Isiah Thomas type player.

[boojitede]

iverson was the most durable little man of ALL TIME.

Chris paul is mr hurt every other year. He wont have a long career.

[ILLsmak]

29ppg on 27 shots, 40% shooting

what does minutes per game has to do with greatness? :confusedshrug:

that just means he he gets bounced out in the first round often.

I think playing 45 minutes per game in the playoffs is proof of his mental toughness and endurance/durability.

Nobody else is really playing minutes like those. LeBron is up there, but he's always "tired" near the end of games.

-Smak

[ballinhun8]

AI's heart should be enough for you to take him.




I hate seeing Paul with such pedestrian numbers in big moments. You can day he's hurt but AI was playing hurt his whole career almost. If AI was only going to score 6 pts in a playoff game, best believe he'll go down shooting the sh*t out of the ball. Not a lethargic 8 or 9 FGA.

[bizil]

I think Isiah, AI, Tiny, and CP3 are the four best players 6'1 and under ever. Isiah, Tiny, and CP3 were PG's who could go off and become alpha dogs in a heartbeat. AI, while more than capable of playing PG and was a great player while he played the positon, is better as a SG. Due to AI's nature, he's better off focusing on scoring the pill. But even if u left AI at PG his entire career, he would have been a legend regardless.

I honestly would call this one a draw. It's too close to call, but if I had to pick, I would pick AI. Now if it was AI vs. Isiah, I would take Isiah over AI. I think Paul is a half step behind Isiah because Isiah was a better scorer and alpha dog. But Paul is also great at being an alpha dog as well, I just think Zeke is a lil better.

[sick_brah07]

AI is a great player but I'd take CP3 over him. I did see AI in his prime and he was very impressive. However, I trust CP3 more to truly get other guys involved and make the right decisions on the floor. CP3 is a crazy hard worker and he's got that insane competive spirit like Jordan, Magic and Kobe.

AI

if my star guard has to flop, winge and complain about every single possesion then screw him.....AI put his body on the line every single play, he got bumped he got hit he broke bones he always got back up without rolling on the floor or acting like he just got shot.

CP is your tradition old school style ball dominant get everybody involved point guard, that people seem to claim is the "right" style of basketball yet since isiah thomas no point guard has lead a team to a championship and even saying that isiah thomas is more comparable to allen iverson rather than cp

[FireDavidKahn]

It's too bad the trade that would of brought AI to Minnesota never happened. KG and AI in both their primes would of won multiple championships together.

Sigh.

[RaininTwos]

and Mutombo averaged like 16/12 in that series didnt he?

Iverson had no help! :rolleyes:

Iverson's 2001 were one of the more loaded teams in the NBA that year. They didnt have scorers but they were a cast of players that know there roles and play very defense and who love to pass and share the ball. Iverson would go off one game and then go like 25 on 7-26 shooting the next two games.

Give the Bucks or the Raptors Mutombo and you would see them going to the Finals instead.

What is this? :facepalm

They were great defensively but AI had to carry the Sixers offensively or else they would lose. The sixers of 01 was a very flawed team that hustled and played great defense. The best three point shooter on that team was AI, that should say it all.

Name some three point shooters on that squad....

I'm not going to hype up a team that has some huge shortcomings.

[bizil]

What is this? :facepalm

They were great defensively but AI had to carry the Sixers offensively or else they would lose. The sixers of 01 was a very flawed team that hustled and played great defense. The best three point shooter on that team was AI, that should say it all.

Name some three point shooters on that squad....

I'm not going to hype up a team that has some huge shortcomings.


I agree 100% Two of the weaker finals teams I've seen EVER are AI's Sixers and Bron's Cavs. Both teams were similar because u had one great player on each team combined with great defense. But in terms of roster depth or talent, those teams weren't typical Finals teams. And it was a stroke of genius by Larry Brown to move AI to the SG in the first place.

[vinsane01]

Based on the way the clips have been using CP3 and how the spurs are defending him, then yeah AI should make more of a difference than cp3 has had so far in this series. But you could argue that a lot scoring PGs could do a better job than cp3 at this point. Heck some clipper fans are screaming for bledsoe to start. Bottom line CP3 has not been utilized the way he's supposed to, if he was i'd pick him over AI for this series..... But then again prime AI was really good.

[longtime lurker]

Regarding Griffin/AI, however, I think they'd play pretty well together.

I don't think so. Griffin seems like the type of player that excels with a traditional Pg in pick and roll action. He'd be pretty much useless while Iverson goes on his scoring binges. The PF's that I could see being successful with prime Iverson would be Garnett, Rasheed Wallace and Elton Brand. Drop any of these guys at PF on the Sixers team that made the finals, give the team 4 years together and I'd be surprised if they don't win at least 1 title.

[inclinerator]

if only lebron had the mentality of ai

[Yanch856]

if only lebron had the mentality of ai

If only.

[lefthook00]

AI has the 2nd highest playoff scoring average EVER. If AI was Kobe's height, he would be the best player of all time.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Believe it or not, AI is one of three most influential players in NBA history because he defines a key concept of NBA:

MJ defines what is greatness
Wilt defines what is stats
AI defines what is cancer

When we talk about greatness such as winning titles, we think of MJ. When we talk about stats such as scoring 100pts, we think of Wilt. When we talk about cancer, we think of Iverson.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's far from ridiculous to call Chris Paul better than Iverson. In general, I'd take Paul. The only thing that concerns me at times is ball dominance, but he's an all-time great passer/playmaker, turns the ball over at a ridiculously low amount, has really become a very good shooter and isn't a scorer like Iverson was, but can take over a game when he wants, especially in '08 and '09. He's also a better defender. I also think that Paul is an easier player to build around than Iverson.

Iverson was a great player, I think he was top 5 in the league at point during his peak, and regularly among one of the best guards and 10 best players. Nothing against him, but it's ridiculous to act like Paul doesn't have a case.

I'll take Paul's consistency over Iverson's streakier playing peak vs peak.


His weak team had same record with juggernaut Lakers of 01 in regular season.

Compare the conferences. 7 of the 8 playoff teams in the West won 50+ games. And it's easy to see why the Lakers only won 56 games. They had Ron Harper in his last season for just 47 games, and Fisher for just 20 during the regular season. Kobe was in all honestly hurting the team early defying Phil in search of individual goals and he really was a cancer early(which is why they went 11-3 without him) before figuring it out late in the season and playoffs and playing like the 2nd best player in the league.

And they had a few nice role players in Fox, Horry and Grant(though this definitely wasn't early/mid 90's Grant).


In east he faced his rivals and as good as teams he had. He beat Vince Carter, Ray Allen (the original big three with Glen Robinson,Sam Cassell)

Carter did not have as good of a team as Iverson in '01. Both lacked reliable scorers around them, but Iverson played on an elite defensive team, while Toronto's defense was average, and Philly was a more dominant rebounding team. The one advantage Carter's cast had was that they had some better shooters. And that series came down to 1 shot in game 7.


His best teammate was 35 years old Mutombo. (He was still decent but not like 90's Mutombo)

Mutombo was more than decent in '01. He won DPOY, averaged 14/14/3 in the playoffs and really wasn't much different than 90's Mutombo.


Mutombo
Tyron Hill
George Lynch
Allen Iverson
Eric Snow

Look at that starting 5.

Well, Snow and McKie were excellent defenders and both handled the ball a lot(averaged more assists than AI) which allowed Iverson to play shooting guard since both could do an excellent job on shooting guards defensively.

Mutombo was DPOY as I mentioned, and a 14/14/3 guy in the playoffs. McKie averaged 12/4/5 on 47% shooting to win the 6th man of the year award and averaged 14/5/7 on 48% shooting in the 33 games he started.

Lynch was another solid defender and rebounder, not great, but fit into that cast. Tyrone Hill was almost a double/double guy.

How many teams defend and rebound that well? And I've always believed that players like that complement Iverson the best. the one thing they were missing was 3 point shooting which was horrendous(worst in the NBA).

They weren't the most talented team by any stretch, but they were loaded defensively, and a phenomenal rebounding team. That's a HUGE part of basketball.

They were built to complement him with all of the strong defenders/rebounders who didn't need the ball to be effective allowing Iverson to shoot enough to get on his hot streaks, but stay in the game when he's cold.

Not surprising that they got out of the East considering the other teams.

[Timmy D for MVP]

If I'm starting a team and given a choice to pick between these two players I would take CP3.

The way he commands a floor is ridiculous. In terms of what I want from my PG it doesn't get too much better than Paul. That's how good he is. It all depends on what you favor in your players but to get someone who can dictate the flow like Paul outweighs the advantages Iverson has imo.

[Bigsmoke]

Iverson's 01 Sixers supporting cast> dirks 11 Mavs

[ZaaaaaH]

if only lebron had the mentality of ai

If AI had LeBron body :bowdown:

40ppg. Allday

[ZaaaaaH]

Iverson's 01 Sixers supporting cast> dirks 11 Mavs

:roll:

[ZaaaaaH]

Dominant player = AI

Starting a new franchise = CP3

Both are amazing midgets who can dominate the game

[blablabla]

Iverson's 01 Sixers supporting cast> dirks 11 Mavs
tc>dikembe
shawn marion>mckie
kidd>snow

dirk bench>ai bench

[ILLsmak]

Iverson's 01 Sixers supporting cast> dirks 11 Mavs

u crazy...

lol.

-Smak

[ballinhun8]

Iverson's 01 Sixers supporting cast> dirks 11 Mavs



Moronic.



What happened to you as a poster??

[Kobe 4 The Win]

They had Earvin Johnson. He was poor man's Mutombo. He couldn't score but he was good at defense & rebounding.

Earvin Johnson = Magic johnson

Ervin Johnson = Scrub

[IGOTGAME]

tc>dikembe
shawn marion>mckie
kidd>snow

dirk bench>ai bench

rick carlisle> larry brown

[Euroleague]

AI was a huge ball hog, incredibly selfish, you couldn't build a proper team around him, etc. With that being said, prime AI was way better than Chris Paul is.

I wouldn't want either one of them on my team if I was a coach though. They both have horrible attitudes.

[RaininTwos]

rick carlisle> larry brown
:eek: :no:

[rodman91]

Earvin Johnson = Magic johnson

Ervin Johnson = Scrub

Ervin Johnson wasn't scrub though.

[IGOTGAME]

:eek: :no:

as an NBA coach....no doubt in my mind. Brown could only win with a defense that Rick put in place. Then could do nothing else with that team as time progressed. Rick went and took that Dallas team to a 'ship with great defensive schemes.