How true is this statement:LeBron is Scottie Pippen getting forced to play lke Jordan

[Celtics4ever]

How true is this statement: LeBron is Scottie Pippen getting forced to play like Jordan?

From watching his career, he should have been a Scottie Pippen type of player that should have been a very good second option to a great player, but the media hype and expectations is forcing him to be a Jordan type of player which has gotten to his head.

[SpecialQue]

I really wish people would stop shitting on Pippen.

[winwin]

this is an insult to Scottie Pippen

[Celtics4ever]

I really wish people would stop shitting on Pippen.

Scottie was a great player, I'm only comparing their mindsets. What separated Pippen from being Jordan or a 1st option was that he didn't have that great mindset that Jordan did. That's is exactly what LeBron lacks.

[(e)]

Scottie Pippen wouldn't of folded like Lebron has in huge moments. But I wont disagree with you if you're trying to compare his mentality on the court.

[imdaman99]

you guys are overrating the hell out of pippen. lebron while not the defensive player that pippen is, is so much better than him on offense. and talking about scottie not folding in big spots, what the hell do you call benching yourself at the end of a playoff game just because the coach didnt want you taking the last shot???? :roll: how soon we forget

[Celtics4ever]

you guys are overrating the hell out of pippen. lebron while not the defensive player that pippen is, is so much better than him on offense. and talking about scottie not folding in big spots, what the hell do you call benching yourself at the end of a playoff game just because the coach didnt want you taking the last shot???? :roll: how soon we forget

Although I disagree with your statement, we are comparing mindsets here.

[RRR3]

LeBron is 3rd in NBA HISTORY in PPG in the regular season, and is 4th in NBA History in PPG in the playoffs. But yeah, he should be a second option :rolleyes:

[imdaman99]

Although I disagree with your statement, we are comparing mindsets here.
mindset is similar. scottie was not as mentally tough as jordan by any means necessary and lebron is mentally weak himself. he was just gifted with superhuman athleticism, a lot more than scottie. but yeah i agree with that statement. its not as if lebron has proven he can win it all yet...

[Celtics4ever]

LeBron is 3rd in NBA HISTORY in PPG in the regular season, and is 4th in NBA History in PPG in the playoffs. But yeah, he should be a second option :rolleyes:

He clearly should be.. He would be a very good second option, just like Pippen was.

[RRR3]

He clearly should be.. He would be a very good second option, just like Pippen was.
Second options don't win scoring titles. Second options don't average 38 PPG against in the ECF. Second options don't score 50+ points 9 times. Second options don't score 29 of their teams last 30 points to win a game in the ECF.

[Kblaze8855]

Lebron is roughly 80% Clyde Drexler and 20% Grant Hill who needs to play like Nique at the moment but is the size of Karl Malone with the athletic ability of Shawn Kemp and the mentality of Heat era Jamal Mashburn so you never know what to expect.

[Celtics4ever]

Second options don't win scoring titles. Second options don't average 38 PPG against in the ECF. Second options don't score 50+ points 9 times. Second options don't score 29 of their teams last 30 points to win a game in the ECF.

That's why I said he would be a "VERY GOOD" second option like Pippen was.

Look at it this way - If Kobe and LeBron played on the same team in their primes, they would have been like this generations MJ and Pippen. And it's obvious that LeBron would have taken the Pippen role due to his mindset.

[RRR3]

That's why I said he would be a "VERY GOOD" second option like Pippen was.

Look at it this way - If Kobe and LeBron played on the same team in their primes, they would have been like this generations MJ and Pippen. And it's obvious that LeBron would have taken the Pippen role due to his mindset.
That's why LeBron scores 26-30 PPG and Pippen scored 16-20. :rolleyes: If LeBron is a second option, your boy Derrick Rose is a 3rd option.:rolleyes: Stop posting please, you add nothing to the board.

[Celtics4ever]

That's why LeBron scores 26-30 PPG and Pippen scored 16-20. :rolleyes: If LeBron is a second option, your boy Derrick Rose is a 3rd option.:rolleyes: Stop posting please, you add nothing to the board.

You're an idiot, if Pippen played a first option for a team in his prime, he would have averaged 26-30 PPG as well.

[RRR3]

You're an idiot, if Pippen played a first option for a team in his prime, he would have averaged 26-30 PPG as well.
Pippen was the first option for the Bulls during Jordan's first retirement, genius, how many points did he average? about 19-22. Wow, clearly on LeBron's level as a scorer:rolleyes:

[Kblaze8855]

While the premise here may or may not be true...how much you score isnt all that makes you a first option. Several teams leading scorers arent even their first options. Lots of leading scorers dont even pretend to be scorers. They just happen to lead their teams and score a lot. Lots of guys who would be best suited as a #2 have scored #1 ppg.

Rose will never score what Lebron does but he isnt a backseat type on offense.

[RRR3]

While the premise here may or may not be true...how much you score isnt all that makes you a first option. Several teams leading scorers arent even their first options. Lots of leading scorers dont even pretend to be scorers. They just happen to lead their teams and score a lot. Lots of guys who would be best suited as a #2 have scored #1 ppg.

Rose will never score what Lebron does but he isnt a backseat type on offense.
Considering how easily LeBron scores and the fact that he is one of the best scorers I've ever seen, the OP's premise is ridiculous. I only used Rose because he's always ranting about Rose being the best player in the NBA

[Celtics4ever]

While the premise here may or may not be true...how much you score isnt all that makes you a first option. Several teams leading scorers arent even their first options. Lots of leading scorers dont even pretend to be scorers. They just happen to lead their teams and score a lot. Lots of guys who would be best suited as a #2 have scored #1 ppg.

Rose will never score what Lebron does but he isnt a backseat type on offense.

Very good post and 100% agreed.

[Nash]

He clearly should be.. He would be a very good second option, just like Pippen was.
FFS stop spamming this forum. You take 2 missed free throws to fit your retarded agenda.

[lebeast666]

Best player in the world is a second option. That's interesting.

[RRR3]

FFS stop spamming this forum. You take 2 missed free throws to fit your retarded agenda.
It's also pretty ironic that Rose stans are giving LeBron hell for missing free throws in the clutch when Rose has built up quite the resume of choking at the free throw line, dating back to college.

[Kblaze8855]

Grant Hill scored easily and if his prime were in the era where the league wanted slashers to prosper he probably puts up 25-30ppg more often than he did....

But he would accept a second option role were he paired with any number of lesser total players. Im assuming thats the issue here. Not if Lebron can be a great #1. But if he would be more accepting and better suited to pick his spots and allow someone else to carry the load.

Which I find to be a reasonable quesiton. But im not one who finds shooting less to win more to be a problem.

One of my first topics here was in like 2001 when I asked if KG would be better off as a #2 option on a team he was still the best player on. People got upset talking to me about PPG and so on.

How much you could score isnt the issue all the time. Its what you are comfortable scoring and the role you would be best suited in.

[RRR3]

Grant Hill scored easily and if his prime were in the era where the league wanted slashers to prosper he probably puts up 25-30ppg more often than he did....

But he would accept a second option role were he paired with any number of lesser total players. Im assuming thats the issue here. Not if Lebron can be a great #1. But if he would be more accepting and better suited to pick his spots and allow someone else to carry the load.

Which I find to be a reasonable quesiton. But im not one who finds shooting less to win more to be a problem.

One of my first topics here was in like 2001 when I asked if KG would be better off as a #2 option on a team he was still the best player on. People got upset talking to me about PPG and so on.

How much you could score isnt the issue all the time. Its what you are comfortable scoring and the role you would be best suited in.
LeBron plays with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh and still scores 26-27 PPG. If we wanted to take on a Pippen role, he would have by now.:coleman:

[Celtics4ever]

FFS stop spamming this forum. You take 2 missed free throws to fit your retarded agenda.
Okay Pauk. You're the biggest spammer on here.

[Glide2keva]

Scottie Pippen wouldn't of folded like Lebron has in huge moments. But I wont disagree with you if you're trying to compare his mentality on the court.
Sorry, but this isn't true.

I was at the 1.8 seconds game. He also had that migraine headache game.

[Celtics4ever]

LeBron plays with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh and still scores 26-27 PPG. If we wanted to take on a Pippen role, he would have by now.:coleman:
Because LeBron is a first option on that team. Guys like Pippen were second option. I dont understand how that's so hard for you to understand :lol

[RRR3]

Because LeBron is a first option on that team. Guys like Pippen were second option. I dont understand how that's so hard for you to understand :lol
Wade is a first option too, you idiot, so why isn't LeBron letting Wade score more and taking a backseat?:facepalm

[Celtics4ever]

Sorry, but this isn't true.

I was at the 1.8 seconds game. He also had that migraine headache game.

That's why LeBron and him are great second options.

[The Iron Fist]

Scottie was a great player, I'm only comparing their mindsets. What separated Pippen from being Jordan or a 1st option was that he didn't have that great mindset that Jordan did. That's is exactly what LeBron lacks.
:wtf: it was Scotties great mindset that allowed him to put ego aside and do whafs best for the team. Saying lebron is like Pip is an insult to Pip.

[The Iron Fist]

Second options don't win scoring titles. Second options don't average 38 PPG against in the ECF. Second options don't score 50+ points 9 times. Second options don't score 29 of their teams last 30 points to win a game in the ECF.
Kobe and Shaq were clearly equals in LA then.

[Kblaze8855]

LeBron plays with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh and still scores 26-27 PPG. If we wanted to take on a Pippen role, he would have by now

I didnt say he wanted to. I said some people who score a lot might be better off and accepting of a lesser role scoring wise. Lebron clearly loves to pass. Hes a now and then attacker who could probably still score 22 a game without isolation plays.

Hes so much like Clyde Drexler I can hardly believe I never see the comparison made. But Clyde was on a much deeper team in his prime in an era before stars were just given the ball and cleared out for like they are now.

Hes better than Clyde. But the way they approach the game is very similar.

Put Clyde on a team with quite a few lesser players who were more prone to takeover in the halfcourt he would have taken a lesser role. I suspect Lebron would too for some people.

Which is not a personality flaw. Not to me at least. Im sure the others saying things like it consider it an insult.

But Kobe and Lebron on one team? Forget backseat. Kobe would put Lebron in the trunk far as who really ran things.

[Celtics4ever]

Wade is a first option too, you idiot, so why isn't LeBron letting Wade score more and taking a backseat?:facepalm

Wade is a first option on the Heat? Fulckin retarded bltch. Are you that dumb? Fulckin dumb LeBron fans.

[RRR3]

Wade is a first option on the Heat? Fulckin retarded bltch. Are you that dumb? Fulckin dumb LeBron fans.
That's not what I said, you moronic imbecile. I'm done talking to your retarded ass:facepalm Wade has is a first option type player, sherlock holmes.:facepalm :banghead: :banghead:

[Celtics4ever]

That's not what I said, you moronic imbecile. I'm done talking to your retarded ass:facepalm Wade has is a first option type player, sherlock holmes.:facepalm :banghead: :banghead:

No shlt, you idiot. But Wade doesn't play the first option on the Heat, that's why LeBron scores more points per game. Why is that so hard to get through you're small brain?

[iamgine]

I didnt say he wanted to. I said some people who score a lot might be better off and accepting of a lesser role scoring wise. Lebron clearly loves to pass. Hes a now and then attacker who could probably still score 22 a game without isolation plays.

Hes so much like Clyde Drexler I can hardly believe I never see the comparison made. But Clyde was on a much deeper team in his prime in an era before stars were just given the ball and cleared out for like they are now.

Hes better than Clyde. But the way they approach the game is very similar.

Put Clyde on a team with quite a few lesser players who were more prone to takeover in the halfcourt he would have taken a lesser role. I suspect Lebron would too for some people.

Which is not a personality flaw. Not to me at least. Im sure the others saying things like it consider it an insult.

But Kobe and Lebron on one team? Forget backseat. Kobe would put Lebron in the trunk far as who really ran things.
Dunno if that would be true. I imagine their teammates would like Lebron's leadership more since he would be the one initiating plays and pass them the ball. Also, I think they would acknowledge Lebron as equal or better player than Kobe. Soon Lebron would lead the team. If Kobe doesn't like it then he can try hero ball but that would just isolate him even more. I think Lakers management would also choose the younger player if it came down to Shaq - Kobe situation again. Maybe Kobe would run things as far as when clutch shots at the end of games are needed but that's about it.

[Celtics4ever]

Dunno if that would be true. I imagine their teammates would like Lebron's leadership more since he would be the one initiating plays and pass them the ball. Also, I think they would acknowledge Lebron as equal or better player than Kobe. Soon Lebron would lead the team. If Kobe doesn't like it then he can try hero ball but that would just isolate him even more. I think Lakers management would also choose the younger player if it came down to Shaq - Kobe situation again. Maybe Kobe would run things as far as when clutch shots at the end of games are needed but that's about it.

I disagree. Lebron was never considered a great leader starting from his cavs days. His teammates actually clowned around with him. Kobe would fulck whole team if they clowned around, danced on the sidelines and lost focus.

Teammates would obviously listen to Kobe.

[Pointguard]

Lebron is in an awkward situation with Wade. If Wade accepted the Pippen role then this team would have a much better record and be in a better situation. Lebron and Wade are too friendly and defer too much to each other. Lebron was second guessing himself and chose a situation where he would be second guessing his role for two years. It's unfortunate because in a clearly defined role we would talking about him much differently. Its three years of second guessing and its gotten to the point that we are second guessing how great he is. He picked the one place where he had a near equal that would fog his claim to greatness.

[97 bulls]

Why are basketball fans do dumb? Why do you guys constantly mistake being the first option on offense as being the best player? Why do you guys continue to compare statistics from different eras? Different roles? Then act as if their one in the same?

And i only see this dumb reasoning from basketball fans. Football fans will never compare wes welker to jerry rice. Why? Cuz football fans acknowledge that welkers stats are due in large part to the rule changes the nfl has made that encourages offense.

Baseball fans can take into consideration that all baseball parks are different in size. And thus effects players homerun totals. Even the height of the pitchers mound have a huge effect on offense. And this is acknowledged

But for some reason, the same considerations arent made in basketball. By basketball fans

[Celtics4ever]

I didnt say he wanted to. I said some people who score a lot might be better off and accepting of a lesser role scoring wise. Lebron clearly loves to pass. Hes a now and then attacker who could probably still score 22 a game without isolation plays.

Hes so much like Clyde Drexler I can hardly believe I never see the comparison made. But Clyde was on a much deeper team in his prime in an era before stars were just given the ball and cleared out for like they are now.

Hes better than Clyde. But the way they approach the game is very similar.

Put Clyde on a team with quite a few lesser players who were more prone to takeover in the halfcourt he would have taken a lesser role. I suspect Lebron would too for some people.

Which is not a personality flaw. Not to me at least. Im sure the others saying things like it consider it an insult.

But Kobe and Lebron on one team? Forget backseat. Kobe would put Lebron in the trunk far as who really ran things.


Very much agree. This is why LeBron is scottie getting forced to play like Jordan due to the media. Kobe/MJ etc. have a mental edge that guys like Pippen and LeBron lack, this is why they would be very good second options.

[iamgine]

I disagree. Lebron was never considered a great leader starting from his cavs days. His teammates actually clowned around with him. Kobe would fulck whole team if they clowned around, danced on the sidelines and lost focus.

Teammates would obviously listen to Kobe.
I disagree

[Celtics4ever]

Lebron is in an awkward situation with Wade. If Wade accepted the Pippen role then this team would have a much better record and be in a better situation. Lebron and Wade are too friendly and defer too much to each other. Lebron was second guessing himself and chose a situation where he would be second guessing his role for two years. It's unfortunate because in a clearly defined role we would talking about him much differently. Its three years of second guessing and its gotten to the point that we are second guessing how great he is. He picked the one place where he had a near equal that would fog his claim to greatness.

If Wade was healthy and in his prime, it would have been better for the heat if Wade played the Jordan role

[TheFan]

am i the only man alive who thinks Pippen was as good as Jordan?

[LBJMVP]

He clearly should be.. He would be a very good second option, just like Pippen was.


come on....

lebron is the best player in the world and your calling him a second option :biggums:

[Extempo]

That's an insult to Scottie Pippen. Pippen was clutch.

[Nash]

Okay Pauk. You're the biggest spammer on here.
Thats the thing with you. You are what makes this forum trash. You have nothing at all to say because I don't even think that you believe the BS you're saying. Instead, you say I'm Pauk.

[bwink23]

You're an idiot, if Pippen played a first option for a team in his prime, he would have averaged 26-30 PPG as well.


He was the leader of the Bulls in 1994 dead in his prime and averaged 22 a game...the next year he was averaging 21-22 before Jordan came back.

If there was any year where he would average 26-30, it would have been those 2 years.


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING??

[jlip]

100% Untrue.

[97 bulls]

He was the leader of the Bulls in 1994 dead in his prime and averaged 22 a game...the next year he was averaging 21-22 before Jordan came back.

If there was any year where he would average 26-30, it would have been those 2 years.


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING??
I agree. I doubt pippen wouldve avg more than 24-25 ppg. Not cuz he couldnt. But that just was his game. And even if he did hit 24-25, it wouldve been once or twice at the most.

[TheFan]

Pippen is not the type of player that will put 30 ppg... but does it matter??

The dud is probably the best ever perimeter defender, he brings other intangibles to the table, Pip was everywhere for the Bulls during that 1994 season, from setting a screen to taking 3s, to making a key steal...

[bwink23]

I disagree. Lebron was never considered a great leader starting from his cavs days. His teammates actually clowned around with him. Kobe would fulck whole team if they clowned around, danced on the sidelines and lost focus.

Teammates would obviously listen to Kobe.

That "clowning around" got Lebron a winning record against the Lakers in Cleveland, an NBA Finals appearance, and the league's best record 2 years in a row.

:rolleyes: ....Go ahead and say "Zero rings" now like a good little puppet who doesn't understand greatness.

[LeFraud James]

LeBron is 3rd in NBA HISTORY in PPG in the regular season, and is 4th in NBA History in PPG in the playoffs. But yeah, he should be a second option :rolleyes:

Finals PPG <

[winwin]

am i the only man alive who thinks Pippen was as good as Jordan?
no

[LT Ice Cream]

:facepalm

So I'm guessing everyone here thinks Scottie Pippen could have carried that Cavs team to the finals too.

:facepalm

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron would be best suited in a secondary scoring role, but still being the first option on offense. When I think of first option I think of the player that has the ball the most. Which is LeBron's best role.

LeBron needs someone like Kobe who is not as good as he is, but is willing to shoot the ball a ton. LeBron should be getting 16 shots a game, and Kobe would get 20+.

Mo Williams
Kobe
LeBron
Gasol
Bynum

would be a great team.

[shadow]

he just needs a closer. He doesn't have the **** you i'm gonna win this mentality. It comes through once in a while but it's not always there. He's like Shaq with FT shooting issues to close games although Shaq did have the **** you i'll win this shit mentality so I'm not implying Shaq was a choker.

[bwink23]

am i the only man alive who thinks Pippen was as good as Jordan?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVEk7V7sqyA#t=0m45s

:rolleyes:

From Scottie's own mouth.

[Cali Syndicate]

Second options don't win scoring titles. Second options don't average 38 PPG against in the ECF. Second options don't score 50+ points 9 times. Second options don't score 29 of their teams last 30 points to win a game in the ECF.

Well, Lebron definitely didn't step his game up when the Heat needed him to in the last game. Nor at all on the biggest stage during last years finals.

Obviously Lebron is easily a first option caliber player. His problem....he needs to start acting like one.

2007 was 5 years ago. Yes he stepped up in that series. He even played extraordinarily well in the 09 ECF. But now as he has "that team," he needs to prove that he knows how to get it done, especially since he's the chosen one and all.

Not one, not two, not three, not four....

[RRR3]

Well, Lebron definitely didn't step his game up when the Heat needed him to in the last game. Nor at all on the biggest stage during last years finals.

Obviously Lebron is easily a first option caliber player. His problem....he needs to start acting like one.

2007 was 5 years ago. Yes he stepped up in that series. He even played extraordinarily well in the 09 ECF. But now as he has "that team," he needs to prove that he knows how to get it done, especially since he's the chosen one and all.

Not one, not two, not three, not four....
I never denied those instances of LBJ choking. However, if he's a second option, I don't see how deferring is "choking". Obviously, most people consider him a first option, which is pretty ****ing obvious. It's an insult to LeBron to call him a second option, and shows how retarded the OP is. LeBron has plenty of flaws, but he is a terrific scorer, one of the best of all time, and people don't give his scoring ability nearly enough credit IMO. Mentality is the question with LBJ, not ability. Mentality also wasn't a problem with him in Cleveland, so I don't know what the **** happened to him really (I guess all the scrutiny and hate...)

[upside24]

I never denied those instances of LBJ choking. However, if he's a second option, I don't see how deferring is "choking". Obviously, most people consider him a first option, which is pretty ****ing obvious. It's an insult to LeBron to call him a second option, and shows how retarded the OP is. LeBron has plenty of flaws, but he is a terrific scorer, one of the best of all time, and people don't give his scoring ability nearly enough credit IMO. Mentality is the question with LBJ, not ability. Mentality also wasn't a problem with him in Cleveland, so I don't know what the **** happened to him really (I guess all the scrutiny and hate...)
LeBron will never get the respect he deserves. Like you said, people criticize his scoring ability despite the fact that he statistically is one of the best scorers ever. The fact that people believe a playmaker and scorer of LeBron's caliber should be a second option to anyone in the current NBA is dumbfounding and just goes to show you the level of delusional hate people have for him.

There have only been about ten players in NBA history that LeBron COULD be a second option to (KAJ, MJ Shaq to name a few.) The funny part is when people bash LeBron and say he "sucks" while propping up a player that is not even remotely close to LeBron's quality. The sad thing is that LeBron is taken for granted and underappreciated by this generation of fans and future generations will regret being born to late to see greatness.

Go ahead and bash me as a "LeBron stan" even though he is not my favorite player and feel free to enlighten me about last years finals PPG. I know greatness when I see it and no amount of hairline jokes and 4th quarter jokes will ever change that.

[RRR3]

LeBron will never get the respect he deserves. Like you said, people criticize his scoring ability despite the fact that he statistically is one of the best scorers ever. The fact that people believe a playmaker and scorer of LeBron's caliber should be a second option to anyone in the current NBA is dumbfounding and just goes to show you the level of delusional hate people have for him.

There have only been about ten players in NBA history that LeBron COULD be a second option to (KAJ, MJ Shaq to name a few.) The funny part is when people bash LeBron and say he "sucks" while propping up a player that is not even remotely close to LeBron's quality. The sad thing is that LeBron is taken for granted and underappreciated by this generation of fans and future generations will regret being born to late to see greatness.

Go ahead and bash me as a "LeBron stan" even though he is not my favorite player and feel free to enlighten me about last years finals PPG. I know greatness when I see it and no amount of hairline jokes and 4th quarter jokes will ever change that.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Cali Syndicate]

I never denied those instances of LBJ choking. However, if he's a second option, I don't see how deferring is "choking". Obviously, most people consider him a first option, which is pretty ****ing obvious. It's an insult to LeBron to call him a second option, and shows how retarded the OP is. LeBron has plenty of flaws, but he is a terrific scorer, one of the best of all time, and people don't give his scoring ability nearly enough credit IMO. Mentality is the question with LBJ, not ability. Mentality also wasn't a problem with him in Cleveland, so I don't know what the **** happened to him really (I guess all the scrutiny and hate...)

As terrific a scorer he is, he needs to realize when his abilities as one need to be utilized to stop the bleeding. Last season, the Mavs had two fourth quarter come back wins. If Lebron steps up as a scorer he is capable of being instead of settling for 18-20 footers in both those games, he would have gotten that ring. And using scrutiny and hate is a scapegoat, he played great closing out the Bulls in the series before so there's no excuse for why he didn't step up against the Mavs in those fourth quarter moments.

He better step up and assert himself as that "first option/MVP/best player in the world" for the rest of this Pacers series, otherwise....all that greatness will be nothing but smoke and mirrors.

[Indian guy]

The responses in this thread are embarrassing. The % of people who have actually seen Pippen play here is probably 5%.

This is not really a comparison. Their rebounding/passing/defense is a toss-up, but LeBron's on a different planet as an offensive player, where the highest individual impact on the game is made. Even current LeBron, who's a far cry from his peak, is much better than Pippen.

[Roundball_Rock]

He was the leader of the Bulls in 1994 dead in his prime and averaged 22 a game...the next year he was averaging 21-22 before Jordan came back.

If there was any year where he would average 26-30, it would have been those 2 years.


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING??

His FGA per game increased by a grand total of 1 without Jordan. His role was not to score 25 a game. He was the team's facilitator and he, according to teammates like Steve Kerr and coaches, was a great leader and great and making sure everyone was involved. Scottie chucking to score 26 ppg would not be a winning formula.


From Scottie's own mouth.

Yes, but people forgot what MJ said about Pippen, i.e. that he was the best player in the NBA in 95' and should have been MVP in 96' etc. People also forget Pippen ranking #2 in all-NBA voting behind MJ in 96' and being 1st in 96' and third in 95'. In other words, Jordan-Pippen during the 95'-98' era was more like Lebron-Wade over the past two years than say, Kobe-Gasol. That kind of player is spoken of like a 90
's Iggy by some here?

It is strange to compare a 6x champion to Lebron. The mentality aspect is overrated. What Pippen lacked is the Jordan/Kobe scoring in the final minute gene. That is it. He did everything else, including making clutch defensive plays (ask Charles Smith for one :roll: ) at the end of games and mental toughness is an area he was good at, although not early in his career. He had an intense will to win, made sure his teammates were involved, was the guy his teammates went to when they needed inspiration, etc. Even when his shot was off he would do everything else he could to help his team. Comparing him to Lebron, who folded in Game 5 in 2011 and the NBA finals last year, is not a good comparison.

People get too caught up in scoring. Derek Fisher and Robert Horry have that "scoring in the final minute" gene.

Regarding Pippen, most people don't understand his actual role on his team. It is no coincidence all his teammates love him--Steve Kerr took him second in the TNT all-time draft and Bill Wennington said he would draft Scottie over ANY player in history. He was not a 30 ppg-type scorer, he did not take that many shots late in the game since MJ was there, but he was as much a leader as anyone else on the Bulls. You also don't win 6 rings and reach 9 conference finals if you are mentally weak. Yeah, he had MJ but history has shown you can't win by yourself. If Pippen disappeared in the NBA finals like Lebron did last year or performed the way Wade is in this series the Bulls would not have won 6 rings.

People forget Pippen's statlines in three finals were 21/9/8, 21/8/8, and 21/9/7 along with elite defense. That is hardly folding on the highest stage. Then there was his defensive demolition of the #1 ranked offense of the Jazz in the 98' finals before his injury (Pippen led the Bulls to 3 of their 4 wins) and a great 97' finals, including an excellent Game 1 performance when it was not even known whether he could play until tip-off. His only bad finals was in 96' when he had several injuries. 5 out of 6 isn't bad.

As players, they are similar in style but Lebron obviously is the superior player. He isn't the leader Pippen was and he lacks the same will to win.

[ashlar]

Even current LeBron, who's a far cry from his peak, is much better than Pippen.

Really?

[che guevara]

You're an idiot, if Pippen played a first option for a team in his prime, he would have averaged 26-30 PPG as well.
:oldlol: Lebron's offensive skillset is far more developed and potent than Pippen's, you're a moron if you can't see that.

At the absolute peak of his career, Pippen had Jordan leave for two seasons and never even topped 22 ppg - and this was when the Bulls needed Pippen to be scoring as much as possible. If he couldn't score than 22 a game in absolutely optimal conditions, why in the **** do you think he could score 26-30 ppg?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

His FGA per game increased by a grand total of 1 without Jordan. His role was not to score 25 a game. He was the team's facilitator and he, according to teammates like Steve Kerr and coaches, was a great leader and great and making sure everyone was involved. Scottie chucking to score 26 ppg would not be a winning formula.



Yes, but people forgot what MJ said about Pippen, i.e. that he was the best player in the NBA in 95' and should have been MVP in 96' etc. People also forget Pippen ranking #2 in all-NBA voting behind MJ in 96' and being 1st in 96' and third in 95'. In other words, Jordan-Pippen during the 95'-98' era was more like Lebron-Wade over the past two years than say, Kobe-Gasol. That kind of player is spoken of like a 90
's Iggy by some here?

It is strange to compare a 6x champion to Lebron. The mentality aspect is overrated. What Pippen lacked is the Jordan/Kobe scoring in the final minute gene. That is it. He did everything else, including making clutch defensive plays (ask Charles Smith for one :roll: ) at the end of games and mental toughness is an area he was good at, although not early in his career. He had an intense will to win, made sure his teammates were involved, was the guy his teammates went to when they needed inspiration, etc. Even when his shot was off he would do everything else he could to help his team. Comparing him to Lebron, who folded in Game 5 in 2011 and the NBA finals last year, is not a good comparison.

People get too caught up in scoring. Derek Fisher and Robert Horry have that "scoring in the final minute" gene.

Regarding Pippen, most people don't understand his actual role on his team. It is no coincidence all his teammates love him--Steve Kerr took him second in the TNT all-time draft and Bill Wennington said he would draft Scottie over ANY player in history. He was not a 30 ppg-type scorer, he did not take that many shots late in the game since MJ was there, but he was as much a leader as anyone else on the Bulls. You also don't win 6 rings and reach 9 conference finals if you are mentally weak. Yeah, he had MJ but history has shown you can't win by yourself. If Pippen disappeared in the NBA finals like Lebron did last year or performed the way Wade is in this series the Bulls would not have won 6 rings.

People forget Pippen's statlines in three finals were 21/9/8, 21/8/8, and 21/9/7 along with elite defense. That is hardly folding on the highest stage. Then there was his defensive demolition of the #1 ranked offense of the Jazz in the 98' finals before his injury (Pippen led the Bulls to 3 of their 4 wins) and a great 97' finals, including an excellent Game 1 performance when it was not even known whether he could play until tip-off. His only bad finals was in 96' when he had several injuries. 5 out of 6 isn't bad.

As players, they are similar in style but Lebron obviously is the superior player. He isn't the leader Pippen was and he lacks the same will to win.

:bowdown:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

seems like DWade is being forced into being a part-time player...into a role player.

[Cali Syndicate]

His FGA per game increased by a grand total of 1 without Jordan. His role was not to score 25 a game. He was the team's facilitator and he, according to teammates like Steve Kerr and coaches, was a great leader and great and making sure everyone was involved. Scottie chucking to score 26 ppg would not be a winning formula.



Yes, but people forgot what MJ said about Pippen, i.e. that he was the best player in the NBA in 95' and should have been MVP in 96' etc. People also forget Pippen ranking #2 in all-NBA voting behind MJ in 96' and being 1st in 96' and third in 95'. In other words, Jordan-Pippen during the 95'-98' era was more like Lebron-Wade over the past two years than say, Kobe-Gasol. That kind of player is spoken of like a 90
's Iggy by some here?

It is strange to compare a 6x champion to Lebron. The mentality aspect is overrated. What Pippen lacked is the Jordan/Kobe scoring in the final minute gene. That is it. He did everything else, including making clutch defensive plays (ask Charles Smith for one :roll: ) at the end of games and mental toughness is an area he was good at, although not early in his career. He had an intense will to win, made sure his teammates were involved, was the guy his teammates went to when they needed inspiration, etc. Even when his shot was off he would do everything else he could to help his team. Comparing him to Lebron, who folded in Game 5 in 2011 and the NBA finals last year, is not a good comparison.

People get too caught up in scoring. Derek Fisher and Robert Horry have that "scoring in the final minute" gene.

Regarding Pippen, most people don't understand his actual role on his team. It is no coincidence all his teammates love him--Steve Kerr took him second in the TNT all-time draft and Bill Wennington said he would draft Scottie over ANY player in history. He was not a 30 ppg-type scorer, he did not take that many shots late in the game since MJ was there, but he was as much a leader as anyone else on the Bulls. You also don't win 6 rings and reach 9 conference finals if you are mentally weak. Yeah, he had MJ but history has shown you can't win by yourself. If Pippen disappeared in the NBA finals like Lebron did last year or performed the way Wade is in this series the Bulls would not have won 6 rings.

People forget Pippen's statlines in three finals were 21/9/8, 21/8/8, and 21/9/7 along with elite defense. That is hardly folding on the highest stage. Then there was his defensive demolition of the #1 ranked offense of the Jazz in the 98' finals before his injury (Pippen led the Bulls to 3 of their 4 wins) and a great 97' finals, including an excellent Game 1 performance when it was not even known whether he could play until tip-off. His only bad finals was in 96' when he had several injuries. 5 out of 6 isn't bad.

As players, they are similar in style but Lebron obviously is the superior player. He isn't the leader Pippen was and he lacks the same will to win.

:applause:

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: Lebron's offensive skillset is far more developed and potent than Pippen's, you're a moron if you can't see that.

At the absolute peak of his career, Pippen had Jordan leave for two seasons and never even topped 22 ppg - and this was when the Bulls needed Pippen to be scoring as much as possible. If he couldn't score than 22 a game in absolutely optimal conditions, why in the **** do you think he could score 26-30 ppg?


I agree that Lebron is a much superior scorer but the notion that the Bulls needed Pippen to score more in 94' is inaccurate. He increased his shooting by 1 FGA per game. What happened? The team ran the triangle more accurately in 94' than during any other year. Pretty much every player who was on both the 93' and 94' teams saw their FG %'s increase in 94', several players had their best individual season that year (Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, Kerr, Williams). In other words, the path to "replacing", to the extent it was possible, Jordan's scoring was to do so as a team as opposed to Pippen suddenly taking 5 more shots a game.

Scoring 30 ppg was not his role. He was committed to keeping his teammates involved because he understand that maximum production from his teamates=wins, even though personal chucking would likely lead to more personal glory. He would make a point to create a shot for a player who was in a slump. He was not the type of player who would show up and take 25 FGA every night.

As to his capability, he was not a 30 ppg capable scorer; few are. At best he could top out around 25 ppg. Keep in mind his 22 ppg in 94' was 8th in the league and 3rd among perimeter players. Pippen in today's NBA certainly could be a 24-25 ppg scorer. We have to keep in mind pace and overall context when throwing out raw numbers. 22 ppg in 94' from a perimeter player isn't the same as 22 ppg from such a player today.

As defenders Pippen was superior. Lebron has never defensively dominated a series the way Pippen did in the 98' ECF and 98' finals--and that was with illegal defense rules.

As overall players Lebron obviously was better but Pippen is a proven winner; Lebron is not. For all the talk about scoring and stats Pippen's NBA finals stats actually>Lebron's...This is what many Lebron fans don't get. Lebron can pile up individual accolades but until he can prove himself to be a winner he simply will not be in the top-tier of all-time greats conversation. Not only is Lebron ringless but he has had two abysmal Finals on his resume...no one cares about him averaging 35 ppg in the second round.

The reason MJ and Pippen won 72 games is they were obsessed with winning and showed up every night, regardless of who was on the schedule. I don't think Lebron has that intense desire to win like they did--and this unfortunately is lost in this talk about Pippen's mentality. Pippen sacrificed personal stats and personal glory throughout his career to win. Give me the winner when Finals time rolls around...

[97 bulls]

Even when you consider personal accolades, people forget, that pippen only had two years as "the man". And in those two years, he finished second in the dpoy voting in 95, and third in mvp voting in 94. And a strong case can be made thaat he deserved both awards.

There are very few players in history that are good enough to be top 3 in both categories

[Roundball_Rock]

Well really just 1 3/4 seasons. His MVP vote total in 95' dramatically declined because MJ came back. His team record was not sufficient to be a strong MVP candidate but he would have finished in the top 5 without MJ. In 94' if he did not miss 10 games at the beginning of the year and the Bulls finished with the top seed in the East/second best record in the NBA (they won 55 games but went 4-6, even with a soft schedule during that stretch, without him and missed the top seed by 2 games and the second best record in the NBA by 3) his MVP vote totals would have increased dramatically, given the challenge he was handed with MJ retiring. It is a shame he missed more games in 94' than in any season from 1988-1997.

Good point, 97'. Also remember that he was doing that well in DPOY as a perimeter player and that was when the (defensive in this case) rules were not as favorable to a player like him as they are in today's NBA. People also act like all-NBA and all-Defensive voting does not exist.

Pippen's all-NBA vote ranks in 1994-1996: 1st, 3rd, 2nd.
Pippen's all-Defensive vote ranks in 1994-1996: 1st, 1st, 1st.

People who act like he was just another generic all-star player simply did not watch back then or have an agenda. The voting results and commentary at the time show otherwise. He was a legitimate top 5 player at his peak and the best perimeter player in the league in 1994, 1995 and second behind MJ in other years.

[305Baller]

The notion is an insult to the great Pippen but in the context of how LeBron likes to approach the game, the notion of LeBron preferring a Kobe-like assassin to play beside is not far-fetched in the least.

Too bad Wade is struggling.

[Owl]

Sorry, but this isn't true.

I was at the 1.8 seconds game. He also had that migraine headache game.
Whether or not this is true he chose after 2 timeouts not to come back into the game and then refused to appologise or acknowledge that he made a mistake. Given this plus "migraine" G7 versus Detroit and Portland's folding there is ammo for those who would question Pippen.

Nonetheless, Scottie Pippen was a great player and was one of the most well rounded players ever.

Comparisons of their game have to acknowledge that LeBron is easily a far greater scorer. So quotes like this

You're an idiot, if Pippen played a first option for a team in his prime, he would have averaged 26-30 PPG as well.
(which those with either a modicum of awareness of Pippen's history or curiosity about it (and an internet connection) can easily see isn't true) are utterly befuddling.

Role wise LeBron is fine as a first option. He'd be better off if he had a good and complimentary second scorer (he had complimentary with Mo Williams, good with Wade but never both). Now a lot of guys don't a player who fits both criteria (some don't get either), but title winners almost always do (or otherwise win through defense).

As to LeBron's mentality I'd rather wait until his career is over to judge. His playoff performance thus far has been mixed, combining some great ones with some embarassing ones.

[Dragonyeuw]

:oldlol: Lebron's offensive skillset is far more developed and potent than Pippen's, you're a moron if you can't see that.

At the absolute peak of his career, Pippen had Jordan leave for two seasons and never even topped 22 ppg - and this was when the Bulls needed Pippen to be scoring as much as possible. If he couldn't score than 22 a game in absolutely optimal conditions, why in the **** do you think he could score 26-30 ppg?

Pippen didn't dramatically increase his shot attempts when Jordan retired. Instead, guys like Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong had career scoring years( and allstar seasons), Kukoc came on board, and so forth. That formula got them a bad call away from the conference finals. It was more of a 'by committee' effort to replace Jordan's scoring than to have Pippen chucking his way to 25-26 ppg.

[Roundball_Rock]

Whether or not this is true he chose after 2 timeouts not to come back into the game and then refused to appologise or acknowledge that he made a mistake.

:biggums: That simply is false. He apologized, his teammates accepted it and Chicago fans gave him a standing ovation when he entered the court before Game 4.


Given this plus "migraine" G7 versus Detroit and Portland's folding there is ammo for those who would question Pippen.

I disagree. For one none of his teammates or coaches question him. There must be a reason those who were in the trenches with him don't...You can cherry pick a few instances from anyone's career--even MJ. What you have to look at is the overall record. You don't win 6 rings if you don't rise to the occasion more often than not. It isn't like the Bulls coasted to rings, other than 91' and 96'. If Pippen folded like Lebron has in the Finals they lose the 92', 93', 97', and 98' championships. 6 rings becomes 2. Then there is his role in reaching Finals in the first place. His defensive dominance in the 98' ECF and his overall play, including clutch shots, was crucial in the 93' ECF.


Role wise LeBron is fine as a first option.

He has had two absolutely abysmal Finals--and he is being compared to a guy who on three occasions nearly averaged a triple-double for entire finals? :wtf:


His playoff performance thus far has been mixed, combining some great ones with some embarassing ones.

He has had, what, one great Finals game? His Finals record is horrible.

[Punpun]

I'm so tired of people drawing those shitty parrallels. LEBRON IS ****ING LEBRON. Just like KOBE IS KOBE. MJ IS MJ. SHAQ IS SHAQ. BIRD IS BIRD. TONY PARKER IS TONY PARKER. DUNCAN IS DUNCAN.

Ad infinitum.

Stop trying to draw those shitty comparisons.

[NASH = BEST]

LeBron being 2nd option is a joke, and those that believe he should have been are retarded.

Not dissing Pippen either because i believe he could have been a great number one, but played with Jordan. But if Pippen played with LeBron on the same team, he would be relished to 2nd with him also.

I just don't really get the LeBron hate, its stupid. He hasn't won shit yet but doesn't mean he should be a 2 either. Only if he starts to break down like tmac then yeah, but not now.

[Dictator]

LeBron is 3rd in NBA HISTORY in PPG in the regular season, and is 4th in NBA History in PPG in the playoffs. But yeah, he should be a second option :rolleyes:


The fck? I know damn well Kobe, Michael, and Wilt have had 35+ppg regular season avgs.

[RRR3]

The fck? I know damn well Kobe, Michael, and Wilt have had 35+ppg regular season avgs.
Career PPG

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Way to insult the great Scottie Pippen!

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron has Scottie Pippen's skillset and mentality but Michael Jordan's talent. I've been saying this for a while now but I don't think he should necessarily be a 2nd option though.

Kblaze made an interesting comparison with Lebron and Drexler though.

[vert48]

Lebron has Scottie Pippen's skillset and mentality but Michael Jordan's talent. I've been saying this for a while now but I don't think he should necessarily be a 2nd option though.
LeBron does NOT have Pippen's mentality. Pippen always understood how to best compliment Jordan's game. Pippen did not need to have the ball in his hand to be effective, LeBron does.

[MasterDurant24]

You're an idiot, if Pippen played a first option for a team in his prime, he would have averaged 26-30 PPG as well.
You have never watched Pippen if you honestly think that, especially when he didn't put up 26-30 when he was the man for the years Jordan was gone.

[Maestro33]

At the absolute peak of his career, Pippen had Jordan leave for two seasons and never even topped 22 ppg - and this was when the Bulls needed Pippen to be scoring as much as possible. If he couldn't score than 22 a game in absolutely optimal conditions, why in the **** do you think he could score 26-30 ppg?

Being the faciliatator of the triangle isn't optimal for padding your own PPG actually. Im Pips biggest fan but Ill give LeBron the edge as a scorer due simply to power. He doesn't have any more moves than Pip. Pips jump hook became damn good. When he did post he was actually very effective. LeBron tho, is just simply a bulldozer.

If Pip wanted to pad up in 94-95 he totally could have but theyd have won less games. He had to do EVERYTHING for that team.

The comparison does make sense but at the end of the day heart means alot and Brons ego grew faster than his game from day one.

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron does NOT have Pippen's mentality. Pippen always understood how to best compliment Jordan's game. Pippen did not need to have the ball in his hand to be effective, LeBron does.
Offensively this is true but that is the coach's fault not LeBron's. It's not LeBron's fault that he does not play like a natural SF and does not have any set plays run for him without the ball. LeBron is more than capable of playing without the ball (I personally think any player is) but he has just played with two coaches in his NBA career that don't know how to run an offense and want him to have the ball 95% of the time. He may not be that effective without the ball though since he is a streaky shooter and isn't that threatening of a shooter but he is capable of doing it. LeBron was a better shooter than Pippen anyways.

We all know LeBron is a beast on the boards and on defense though so I shouldn't have to explain that. The bottom line is that LeBron is capable of impacting the game with or without the ball.

The coach has more control under NBA games and teams than most people realize. It is probably the most underrated aspect of basketball really.

[97 bulls]

Being the faciliatator of the triangle isn't optimal for padding your own PPG actually. Im Pips biggest fan but Ill give LeBron the edge as a scorer due simply to power. He doesn't have any more moves than Pip. Pips jump hook became damn good. When he did post he was actually very effective. LeBron tho, is just simply a bulldozer.

If Pip wanted to pad up in 94-95 he totally could have but theyd have won less games. He had to do EVERYTHING for that team.

The comparison does make sense but at the end of the day heart means alot and Brons ego grew faster than his game from day one.
Great point about pippen in 95. He led his team in every major category. And he ran the offense, as well as being their teams defensive anchor. And they were on pace to win 44 games.

[cavsfanatic]

lmao y'all think Pippen is on Lebron's level? :facepalm Cavs fans who have a legit reason to hate Lebron have more sense than that lmfaoooo

[97 bulls]

Offensively this is true but that is the coach's fault not LeBron's. It's not LeBron's fault that he does not play like a natural SF and does not have any set plays run for him without the ball. LeBron is more than capable of playing without the ball (I personally think any player is) but he has just played with two coaches in his NBA career that don't know how to run an offense and want him to have the ball 95% of the time. He may not be that effective without the ball though since he is a streaky shooter and isn't that threatening of a shooter but he is capable of doing it. LeBron was a better shooter than Pippen anyways.

We all know LeBron is a beast on the boards and on defense though so I shouldn't have to explain that. The bottom line is that LeBron is capable of impacting the game with or without the ball.

The coach has more control under NBA games and teams than most people realize. It is probably the most underrated aspect of basketball really.
James is terrible off the ball. He never cuts, he doesnt set picks.

[vert48]

Offensively this is true but that is the coach's fault not LeBron's. It's not LeBron's fault that he does not play like a natural SF and does not have any set plays run for him without the ball. LeBron is more than capable of playing without the ball (I personally think any player is) but he has just played with two coaches in his NBA career that don't know how to run an offense and want him to have the ball 95% of the time. He may not be that effective without the ball though since he is a streaky shooter and isn't that threatening of a shooter but he is capable of doing it. LeBron was a better shooter than Pippen anyways.

We all know LeBron is a beast on the boards and on defense though so I shouldn't have to explain that. The bottom line is that LeBron is capable of impacting the game with or without the ball.

The coach has more control under NBA games and teams than most people realize. It is probably the most underrated aspect of basketball really.While the coach may have an impact, LeBron's style of play is all his. He was raised with a sense of entitlement reserved for royalty. No one has EVER said no to him.

His mom could not say no when LeBron wanted a Hummer while still in highschool, even though they knew that it would make him ineligible. When authorities looked at that issue, they gave him a slap on the wrist instead of banning him as they should have.

The Cavs could not say no to his ridiculous demands regarding his entourage. Neither can Miami. The NBA changes the rules to make his crab dribble legal, and refuses to crack down on his legendary 5+ step travels.

Everyone is afraid to say no to him. Yeah, it is coach's fault, but no owner will say no either. If a coach says no, the owner will just dump the coach. Silas was trying to get LeBron to play in a way that matches his skillset and mentality, but LeBron's ego was having none of that. He said he did not want to be Magic or Jordan, he wanted to be LeBron, which in LeBron's mind is both. What it really comes down to is he wants all the glory and none of the responsibility.

[cavsfanatic]

While the coach may have an impact, LeBron's style of play is all his. He was raised with a sense of entitlement reserved for royalty. No one has EVER said no to him.

His mom could not say no when LeBron wanted a Hummer while still in highschool, even though they knew that it would make him ineligible. When authorities looked at that issue, they gave him a slap on the wrist instead of banning him as they should have.

The Cavs could not say no to his ridiculous demands regarding his entourage. Neither can Miami. The NBA changes the rules to make his crab dribble legal, and refuses to crack down on his legendary 5+ step travels.

Everyone is afraid to say no to him. Yeah, it is coach's fault, but no owner will say no either. If a coach says no, the owner will just dump the coach. Silas was trying to get LeBron to play in a way that matches his skillset and mentality, but LeBron's ego was having none of that. He said he did not want to be Magic or Jordan, he wanted to be LeBron, which in LeBron's mind is both. What it really comes down to is he wants all the glory and none of the responsibility. Stfu talking bout shit you don't know about. Lebron's mom got the hummer as a gift for his birthday and she got a loan from a bank. He didn't even know she was getting it for him.

[Pointguard]

This problem is a recent phenom with Lebron, and that one point he was clearly an Alpha at its best. Pressure seems to have built up and affected him as of late. He has a unique childhood and could go thru abandonment issues here and there when pressure gets high <---- please, this is not a diagnosis - guess work at best. But I see it in some of the kids I mentor: I see certain triggers for disengagement and low participation due to feeling like they can't turn to anybody. I think he can clinically correct it, at least so says my lady, if it challenges him again. She says you really can't bury it. But I think its a recent psychological state - not a true essence thing (Alpha/Beta) with him.