Kobe Bryant 33 FGA and "ZERO" Assists in a Must Win game

[gengiskhan]

With Healthy Bynum & Healthy Gasol, kobe struggled to pick Single assist whole game.

Kobe already had 24 FGA & 0 assists in 3 quarters.

You wonder why LAL only scored 11 pts in 4th quarter.

I always thought Iverson was the worse but atleast he did not play with most talented & most skilled offensive Big Men like Kobe does.

so he shotjocked. Whats kobe's excuse.

This guy is the biggest CANCER in LAL starting line up!

[talkingconch]

probably the worst troll on ISH atm.

nice try :roll:

[dazzer87]

With Healthy Bynum & Healthy Gasol, kobe struggled to pick Single assist whole game.

Kobe already had 24 FGA & 0 assists in 3 quarters.

You wonder why LAL only scored 11 pts in 4th quarter.

I always thought Iverson was the worse but atleast he did not play with most talented & most skilled offensive Big Men like Kobe does.

so he shotjocked. Whats kobe's excuse.

This guy is the biggest CANCER in LAL starting line up!

Whats New?

[elementally morale]

Learn you some English.

[disel]

Choke Cryant

[White Mamba]

:facepalm :facepalm bynum played 2night? i didn't see him.

[CLTHornets4eva]

It really is remarkable that Kobe had 0 assists. I don't think that directly led to the loss as he did score 42. I just was shocked to see that he recorded not 1 assist, even one through a circumstantial possesion.

[gengiskhan]

It really is remarkable that Kobe had 0 assists. I don't think that directly led to the loss as he did score 42. I just was shocked to see that he recorded not 1 assist, even one through a circumstantial possesion.

Do you know how he got to 42 pts. But shooting 33 FGA.

When Kobe takes 33 FGA, they're absolutely "LEGIT" FGA. no intangibles. no offensive reb picked up & quick shot easy score. No put back dunks off rebounds.

They are ball hogged & shot jocked 33 FGAs.

Takes big men out of the rhythm & focus completely. Gasol & Bynum looked off the flow of the game today.

Kobe was crazy shotjocking. He already had 24 FGA by 3 quarters.

That itself is a lot for a guy who shoots less than 43%FG the season.

Yes. Kobe lost the game. All he needed to do is differ to big men in first 2 quarters. & atleast give it a real try.

[Jimmy2k8]

Didn't I just see this thread? :oldlol: Damn, Kobe getting all the blame despite going 18-33(which is good btw).

Perhaps if Gasol and Bynum showed up to play, and the bench showed up to play, the Lakers wouldn't have lost that game.

Guess Kobe does deserve some blame for not stepping up and lighting a fire under his teammates ass. but the thunder were going to win this game anyway.

[RazorBaLade]

All I know is you'd be crying like a bitch at how hard you get trolled by Kobe > MJ and Bron etc etc posts if they won or won the championship or whatever, and guess what?

its threads like these that make me happy there are people that fight the good fight. You deserve it right back. Enjoy this moment... we will have ours again and you will be mad

[Whoah10115]

A thread during the game, and then a thread after the game...



Scary.

[TheBigVeto]

All I know is you'd be crying like a bitch at how hard you get trolled by Kobe > MJ and Bron etc etc posts if they won or won the championship or whatever, and guess what?

its threads like these that make me happy there are people that fight the good fight. You deserve it right back. Enjoy this moment... we will have ours again and you will be mad

People defending Kobe are not fighting the good fight.
It's like saying a bunch of people defending a terrorist who killed a million lives are fighting the good fight.

[Tenchi Ryu]

People defending Kobe are not fighting the good fight.
It's like saying a bunch of people defending a terrorist who killed a million lives are fighting the good fight.
:wtf: :wtf:

[tpols]

:wtf: :wtf:
Kobe's such a scumbag amirite?:lol

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe with a fantastic scoring game in a losing effort, but I felt that his strategy to come out gunning early, looking for his shot and his shot only, was the wrong one. It alienated his teammates early and consequently they never got into any sort of rhythm. I can count on one hand the number of times they actually tried to establish Gasol or Bynum in the post in the first half, and it was even less in the second half. Obviously some of the onus is on the other Lakers to find their own ways to contribute to the game, but as the star, I don't think the way Kobe played today was conducive to winning despite his efficiency and him having his best offensive game of the series.

It was a combination of two things imo:

A) The fact that he came out immediately gunning, never looking to establish their inside game or try to get others involved, that alienated his teammates and didn't allow anyone to get into an offensive rhythm.

B) The type of ball he was playing (i.e,m that his shots were all on extended isos where he monopolized the ball for 6-8+ seconds also contributed to alienating his teammates. If more of his scores were off the ball on quick catch-and-shoots, offensive putbacks, run-outs on steals etc. at least other guys would have had the feel of the ball in their hands and felt more invested in the game.

Yes, you can't afford to wait until the second half to turn it on against an explosive team like OKC, so if after the first 8-14 minutes of the game things are going south, by all means shoot the ball. But imo looking to shoot every time you touch the ball from the opening tip isn't conducive to winning basketball games at this level.

Props to OKC, who showed tremendous poise throughout the series for such a young team. Spurs/OKC is gonna be a tremendous series.

[DirkLegend41]

People defending Kobe are not fighting the good fight.
It's like saying a bunch of people defending a terrorist who killed a million lives are fighting the good fight.
WTF kind of analogy is that?

[gengiskhan]

People defending Kobe are not fighting the good fight.
It's like saying a bunch of people defending a "rapist" who rapedd a million lives are fighting the good fight.

I know what you're trying to say bro.

I corrected for you.

kobe basically gave game 2 & game 4 on a silver plate to OKL.

[Da_Realist]

Kobe with a fantastic scoring game in a losing effort, but I felt that his strategy to come out gunning early, looking for his shot and his shot only, was the wrong one. It alienated his teammates early and consequently they never got into any sort of rhythm. I can count on one hand the number of times they actually tried to establish Gasol or Bynum in the post in the first half, and it was even less in the second half. Obviously some of the onus is on the other Lakers to find their own ways to contribute to the game, but as the star, I don't think the way Kobe played today was conducive to winning despite his efficiency and him having his best offensive game of the series.

It was a combination of two things imo:

A) The fact that he came out immediately gunning, never looking to establish their inside game or try to get others involved, that alienated his teammates and didn't allow anyone to get into an offensive rhythm.

B) The type of ball he was playing (i.e,m that his shots were all on extended isos where he monopolized the ball for 6-8+ seconds also contributed to alienating his teammates. If more of his scores were off the ball on quick catch-and-shoots, offensive putbacks, run-outs on steals etc. at least other guys would have had the feel of the ball in their hands and felt more invested in the game.

Yes, you can't afford to wait until the second half to turn it on against an explosive team like OKC, so if after the first 8-14 minutes of the game things are going south, by all means shoot the ball. But imo looking to shoot every time you touch the ball from the opening tip isn't conducive to winning basketball games at this level.

Props to OKC, who showed tremendous poise throughout the series for such a young team. Spurs/OKC is gonna be a tremendous series.

C) It allowed OKC to play uptempo basketball.

[Droid101]

Check his teammates shooting percentages for this game, you ****ing idiot.

[Mr. Jabbar]

One of the least informed and not funny trolls in this site.

[oh the horror]

People defending Kobe are not fighting the good fight.
It's like saying a bunch of people defending a terrorist who killed a million lives are fighting the good fight.



*record skips*


:wtf:

[Knoe Itawl]

no surprise

[PickernRoller]

One of the least informed and not funny trolls in this site.

He surpassed Pauk such a long time ago...Bwink not near his stupidity scale. I wonder if he's an alternate account of one of those two. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[jdem]

Its not that he wasnt passing, its that nobody was hitting shots when he did. At the end of the day Kobe had 0 assists, but he has 5 rings... lebron has 0. Rings > assists

[NumberSix]

I don't really care who did what in this game. The series ended when OKC went up 3-1. If the Lakers didn't get eliminated in this game, they would have next game.

[andgar923]

Man... part of me wants to give him props for being efficient and for wanting to carry the load.

But the part that bugs me is, Oldschool is right.

While his teammates did struggle, and while he did try to pass it at some points, most of it goes back to Kobe. We saw moments in which they became animated and the ball was moving, and players were cutting without Kobe. Yeah... people can say "but the OKC starters weren't in the game" but that doesn't take away from the fact that they were running plays and moving the ball. It doesn't take away from the fact that Kobe was dribbling too much and not trying to run the offense for a good percentage of his possessions. I can count of a few moments in which he did play within the offense, they came off some curls and screens. But most of it was Kobe going one on one, passing only because he war forced too.

Natural counter argument and knee jerk reaction is "his teammates weren't scoring", but that's part of basketball. Players miss and score, are we gonna stop playing the game properly because they missed a shot? His job is to facilitate their offense and make his teammates better. He didn't seem to be in the sharing mode today no matter what. Pau, Bynum, Black, metta and everybody else could've been hitting their shot, but Kobe was on KoME mode from tip off and nothing was gonna change that.

I said that Bynum seemed disinterested when the game started and I can guarantee that Kobe proclaimed how he was gonna shoot and shoot... book it. Bynum wasn't the only player that looked disinterested out there, most players were calling their own number and even ignoring Kobe at times. Yet when he went out, they came to life and the ball moved... not a coincidence.

Even Reggie mentioned that Kobe had turned on the KoME mode when the game started, which we all know is a recipe for failure.

[pauk]

Kobe with a fantastic scoring game in a losing effort, but I felt that his strategy to come out gunning early, looking for his shot and his shot only, was the wrong one. It alienated his teammates early and consequently they never got into any sort of rhythm. I can count on one hand the number of times they actually tried to establish Gasol or Bynum in the post in the first half, and it was even less in the second half. Obviously some of the onus is on the other Lakers to find their own ways to contribute to the game, but as the star, I don't think the way Kobe played today was conducive to winning despite his efficiency and him having his best offensive game of the series.

It was a combination of two things imo:

A) The fact that he came out immediately gunning, never looking to establish their inside game or try to get others involved, that alienated his teammates and didn't allow anyone to get into an offensive rhythm.

B) The type of ball he was playing (i.e,m that his shots were all on extended isos where he monopolized the ball for 6-8+ seconds also contributed to alienating his teammates. If more of his scores were off the ball on quick catch-and-shoots, offensive putbacks, run-outs on steals etc. at least other guys would have had the feel of the ball in their hands and felt more invested in the game.

Yes, you can't afford to wait until the second half to turn it on against an explosive team like OKC, so if after the first 8-14 minutes of the game things are going south, by all means shoot the ball. But imo looking to shoot every time you touch the ball from the opening tip isn't conducive to winning basketball games at this level.

Props to OKC, who showed tremendous poise throughout the series for such a young team. Spurs/OKC is gonna be a tremendous series.

This.

[RazorBaLade]

Man... part of me wants to give him props for being efficient and for wanting to carry the load.

But the part that bugs me is, Oldschool is right.

While his teammates did struggle, and while he did try to pass it at some points, most of it goes back to Kobe. We saw moments in which they became animated and the ball was moving, and players were cutting without Kobe. Yeah... people can say "but the OKC starters weren't in the game" but that doesn't take away from the fact that they were running plays and moving the ball. It doesn't take away from the fact that Kobe was dribbling too much and not trying to run the offense for a good percentage of his possessions. I can count of a few moments in which he did play within the offense, they came off some curls and screens. But most of it was Kobe going one on one, passing only because he war forced too.

Natural counter argument and knee jerk reaction is "his teammates weren't scoring", but that's part of basketball. Players miss and score, are we gonna stop playing the game properly because they missed a shot? His job is to facilitate their offense and make his teammates better. He didn't seem to be in the sharing mode today no matter what. Pau, Bynum, Black, metta and everybody else could've been hitting their shot, but Kobe was on KoME mode from tip off and nothing was gonna change that.

I said that Bynum seemed disinterested when the game started and I can guarantee that Kobe proclaimed how he was gonna shoot and shoot... book it. Bynum wasn't the only player that looked disinterested out there, most players were calling their own number and even ignoring Kobe at times. Yet when he went out, they came to life and the ball moved... not a coincidence.

Even Reggie mentioned that Kobe had turned on the KoME mode when the game started, which we all know is a recipe for failure.

The only question I have is, do kobes 33 FGs stop at 26 or 27 like lebrons game a few days ago if someone on the team steps up like wade did? We can ALWAYS blame someone but the fact of the matter is the only person that remotely had a good game was MWP and at some point a guy shooting 4-15 on his shots is just the result of that game.

How great was kobes game tonight if pau doesnt completely fall off in the 2nd half? When kobes on the bench in the 4th if instead of missing all those shots he makes them? And kobe comes in and pau still plays aggressive and makes shots? And they win? I

[andgar923]

The only question I have is, do kobes 33 FGs stop at 26 or 27 like lebrons game a few days ago if someone on the team steps up like wade did? We can ALWAYS blame someone but the fact of the matter is the only person that remotely had a good game was MWP and at some point a guy shooting 4-15 on his shots is just the result of that game.

How great was kobes game tonight if pau doesnt completely fall off in the 2nd half? When kobes on the bench in the 4th if instead of missing all those shots he makes them? And kobe comes in and pau still plays aggressive and makes shots? And they win? I

You still fail to understand OldSchool's point and what the entire world has been saying for years.

The Laker's struggles can be directly attributed to Kobe's shooting (I won't disrespect his performance by calling it chucking).

Comparing Bron to Kobe's performance is utterly wrong because the circumstances are entirely different. Their style of play is different, so it's wrong.

There's a certain style that Kobe plays that clashes with the Lakers' offense, and I believe it also translates into their defense. His offense at times demoralizes his teammate's interest on both ends.

Here's a situation that I hope can summarize things:

if Bron has the ball and he's on scoring mode, his teammates know for sure that he'll pass them the ball if they're open, regardless if they're making their shots or not.

If Kobe has the ball and he's on KoME mode, his teammates are unsure if he'll pass them the ball if they're open, regardless of whether or not they're making their shots.

This can create disinterest in a player, it takes them off their game, it takes them off their rhythm. It also makes the offense more stagnant since the offense becomes predictable and the ball and/or players aren't moving. Which is exactly what we see when Kobe goes in KoME mode.

Notice how OKC rarely doubled Kobe today?

They knew he was on KoME mode and that it would cost them the game.
To top it off, there was moments in which the Lakers were active, involved and efficient in their offense. So it wasn't as tho they were utterly useless and Kobe couldn't aid them.

But... it's all for not, OKC was just better. The Lakers' woes came from the defensive side more than the offensive side, and Kobe was a no show just like the rest of the Lakers as well. Since we like to make comparisons (you), Bron usually has an impact on other areas besides just scoring, even when he's on scoring mode.... KoME, not so much.

[pauk]

Sorry for bringing in Lebron, but i cant find a better example right now in what im about to say... look at the last Miami-Indiana Game 4, Wade was absolutely horrible... but Lebron kept trying all the time to create something for him all the time, sometimes a player just needs to see the ball go thru the basket a couple of times to get his rythm and confidence going when he has a bad night (and thats exactly what happened to Wade)... Lebron could not get Wade the easy buckets, thats the only way Wade could make a shot that 1st half, so what he did was started scoring over and over in order to initiate eventually a double-triple team trying always to sag on him, scramble the defense and simply seek attention, now many passing angles are present, he told Wade to start cutting to the basket and he would get him the ball all the time... he did get these easy buckets from Lebron numerous times and Wade got going and that made him later get hot...

I think Kobe is a fantastic SCORER... one of the best ever... one of the 10 best careers ever..... but i think the difference between him and for example Jordan, Magic, Bird and Lebron is that these guys were much more unselfish, they did a much better job at making their teammates better.... Saying that Kobe got 5 rings wont help you in this case, the teams he had in those championship runs he could have won all of them averaging 0 assists a game....

[Punpun]

Pauk and andgar are trying REALLY hard to pin this loss on Kobe. Gotta give them props.

:oldlol::roll::oldlol::roll::oldlol:

[andgar923]

Sorry for bringing in Lebron, but i cant find a better example right now in what im about to say... look at the last Miami-Indiana Game 4, Wade was absolutely horrible... but Lebron kept trying all the time to create something for him all the time, sometimes a player just needs to see the ball go thru the basket a couple of times to get his rythm and confidence going when he has a bad night (and thats exactly what happened to Wade)... Lebron could not get Wade the easy buckets, thats the only way Wade could make a shot that 1st half, so what he did was started scoring over and over in order to initiate eventually a double-triple team trying always to sag on him, scramble the defense and simply seek attention, now many passing angles are present, he told Wade to start cutting to the basket and he would get him the ball all the time... he did get these easy buckets from Lebron numerous times and Wade got going and that made him later get hot...

I think Kobe is a fantastic SCORER... one of the best ever... one of the 10 best careers ever..... but i think the difference between him and for example Jordan, Magic, Bird and Lebron is that these guys were much more unselfish, they did a much better job at making their teammates better.... Saying that Kobe got 5 rings wont help you in this case, the teams he had in those championship runs he could have won all of them averaging 0 assists a game....

Stop making sense.

[chazzy]

the teams he had in those championship runs he could have won all of them averaging 0 assists a game....
You really don't know anything

[RazorBaLade]

You still fail to understand OldSchool's point and what the entire world has been saying for years.

The Laker's struggles can be directly attributed to Kobe's shooting (I won't disrespect his performance by calling it chucking).

Comparing Bron to Kobe's performance is utterly wrong because the circumstances are entirely different. Their style of play is different, so it's wrong.

There's a certain style that Kobe plays that clashes with the Lakers' offense, and I believe it also translates into their defense. His offense at times demoralizes his teammate's interest on both ends.

Here's a situation that I hope can summarize things:

if Bron has the ball and he's on scoring mode, his teammates know for sure that he'll pass them the ball if they're open, regardless if they're making their shots or not.

If Kobe has the ball and he's on KoME mode, his teammates are unsure if he'll pass them the ball if they're open, regardless of whether or not they're making their shots.

This can create disinterest in a player, it takes them off their game, it takes them off their rhythm. It also makes the offense more stagnant since the offense becomes predictable and the ball and/or players aren't moving. Which is exactly what we see when Kobe goes in KoME mode.

To top it off, there was moments in which the Lakers were active, involved and efficient in their offense. So it wasn't as tho they were utterly useless and Kobe couldn't aid them.

But... it's all for not, OKC was just better. The Lakers' woes came from the defensive side more than the offensive side, and Kobe was a no show just like the rest of the Lakers as well. Since we like to make comparisons (you), Bron usually has an impact on other areas besides just scoring, even when he's on scoring mode.... KoME, not so much.

Well I don't want to argue the details and such, I think theres something we can agree on though. If someone loses interest in winning a game because they didn't get the ball that much (and ended up 5-14 or 4-10) then I don't want them on my team.

You don't want someone that quits on your team, regardless of the situation. Metta got 5 shots tonight and hes involved offensively and defensively. Fisher was always involved on both ends no matter if he was getting shots. Shaq played hard when Kobe was taking over games. Gasol did it in 09 and 10 too.

I've never seen Dirk or Terry stop trying because hes not getting the ball enough, or Metta, or Fisher, or Pau in 09 and 10. I want THOSE kinds of guys on my team, not people with bynum attitudes, don't you agree?

[RazorBaLade]

Sorry for bringing in Lebron, but i cant find a better example right now in what im about to say... look at the last Miami-Indiana Game 4, Wade was absolutely horrible... but Lebron kept trying all the time to create something for him all the time, sometimes a player just needs to see the ball go thru the basket a couple of times to get his rythm and confidence going when he has a bad night (and thats exactly what happened to Wade)... Lebron could not get Wade the easy buckets, thats the only way Wade could make a shot that 1st half, so what he did was started scoring over and over in order to initiate eventually a double-triple team trying always to sag on him, scramble the defense and simply seek attention, now many passing angles are present, he told Wade to start cutting to the basket and he would get him the ball all the time... he did get these easy buckets from Lebron numerous times and Wade got going and that made him later get hot...

I think Kobe is a fantastic SCORER... one of the best ever... one of the 10 best careers ever..... but i think the difference between him and for example Jordan, Magic, Bird and Lebron is that these guys were much more unselfish, they did a much better job at making their teammates better.... Saying that Kobe got 5 rings wont help you in this case, the teams he had in those championship runs he could have won all of them averaging 0 assists a game....

So when pau was playing hard and scoring 20 in the playoffs in 09 and 10, you attribute kobe to that right? Because right now kobe isnt getting pau going right as seen by paus stats?

I don't think you will give kobe credit for paus good years.

[andgar923]

Pauk and andgar are trying REALLY hard to pin this loss on Kobe. Gotta give them props.

:oldlol::roll::oldlol::roll::oldlol:

Yeah... really trying hard when we're backed up by plenty of evidence.

Howabout YOU idiots stop trying to spin it in Kobe's favor?

Shit... even some Kobe supporters in other threads spelled out the Lakers' doom when they knew Kobe was in KoME mode. The writing was on the wall when it was evident that he was gunning all night.

I even believed that Kobe would scale back his attack and modify his game to facilitate his teammates, but I was wrong. He shot and shot and shot, and when he passed they were purely out of necessity.

[chazzy]

Yeah... really trying hard when we're backed up by plenty of evidence.

Howabout YOU idiots stop trying to spin it in Kobe's favor?

Shit... even some Kobe supporters in other threads spelled out the Lakers' doom when they knew Kobe was in KoME mode. The writing was on the wall when it was evident that he was gunning all night.

I even believed that Kobe would scale back his attack and modify his game to facilitate his teammates, but I was wrong. He shot and shot and shot, and when he passed they were purely out of necessity.
Wait, you're actually trying to argue that they lost because of Kobe's play today?

[Punpun]

Don't leash out on me, young bud. You got called out on your shit. I gave you props for that shit. Now keep on posting.

[andgar923]

Well I don't want to argue the details and such, I think theres something we can agree on though. If someone loses interest in winning a game because they didn't get the ball that much (and ended up 5-14 or 4-10) then I don't want them on my team.

You don't want someone that quits on your team, regardless of the situation. Metta got 5 shots tonight and hes involved offensively and defensively. Fisher was always involved on both ends no matter if he was getting shots. Shaq played hard when Kobe was taking over games. Gasol did it in 09 and 10 too.

I've never seen Dirk or Terry stop trying because hes not getting the ball enough, or Metta, or Fisher, or Pau in 09 and 10. I want THOSE kinds of guys on my team, not people with bynum attitudes, don't you agree?

I agree entirely.

I wouldn't want somebody that isn't gonna play regardless of his reasons, legit or not.

But lets not act as if Kobe hasn't said "**** it" when he didn't get his way either.

[RazorBaLade]

I agree entirely.

I wouldn't want somebody that isn't gonna play regardless of his reasons, legit or not.

But lets not act as if Kobe hasn't said "**** it" when he didn't get his way either.

Yeah. kobe certainly aint perfect. but I'll say for this years playoffs I can say kobe has wanted to win every game.. I can't say that for pau and bynum. I just hate them for that. Its a valid point that they aren't as focused as they should be, but they should still try to win.

Like you don't even have to go far. Bynum first game after getting 10 blocks, "I have to play good defensively to win a championship".... And then he starts quitting if he doesnt shoot the ball enough. I just cant make excuses for these guys when someone like metta is playing his heart out while only getting a small amount of looks and maximizing his output.

Its also upsetting that in 06 in that game 7 he was trying to facilitate and went out and played passively and kept giving smush and kwame looks, and people wanted him to go out swinging.. tonight he goes out swinging (and lands damn near every punch) and its still not enough. Is it possible to play a perfect game in a loss?

[andgar923]

Yeah. Nobody is always flawless but I'll say for this years playoffs I can say kobe has wanted to win every game.. I can't say that for pau and bynum. I just hate them for that. Its a valid point that they aren't as focused as they should be, but they should still try to win.

Like you don't even have to go far. Bynum first game after getting 10 blocks, "I have to play good defensively to win a championship".... And then he starts quitting if he doesnt shoot the ball enough. I just cant make excuses for these guys when someone like metta is playing his heart out while only getting a small amount of looks and maximizing his output.

they're b*ches all of them.

Gasol is a soft f@g
Bynum is a spoiled idiotic moron
And Kobe is still selfish and only wants to win on his terms

Oh... and don't let me get started on Brown.

I remember when Kobe fans propped him up to be a great coach. He's horrible on both offense and defense, clueless doofus that should get back to becoming an assistant and getting game tapes prepared.

Coach Rambis!!!!!!!:rockon:

[RazorBaLade]

they're b*ches all of them.

Gasol is a soft f@g
Bynum is a spoiled idiotic moron
And Kobe is still selfish and only wants to win on his terms

Oh... and don't let me get started on Brown.

I remember when Kobe fans propped him up to be a great coach. He's horrible on both offense and defense, clueless doofus that should get back to becoming an assistant and getting game tapes prepared.

Coach Rambis!!!!!!!:rockon:

I dont speak for everyone but I like mike! our defense is good just not the personell for it. hes no PJ but hes fine

Also, all stars want to win on their own terms

[andgar923]

I dont speak for everyone but I like mike! our defense is good just not the personell for it. hes no PJ but hes fine

Also, all stars want to win on their own terms

To some degree yes and to some degree no.

Not all all stars are as adamant about winning on their own terms, only the selfish ones.

MJ gets labeled as selfish, but he adjusted his game when needed. Kobe at times does, but often times than not he doesn't.

Durant, Wade, Bron, Bird, Magic, Duncan, KG (Not to put them all in the same level) have adjusted and embraced their different roles. Kobe not to long ago said that the Kobe system aint going nowhere. I can almost guarantee that he said he was gonna shoot tonight before the game and some of his teammates acted like b#tches because of it.

Bynum wasn't the only player that was ignoring Kobe, he wasn't the only one that looked uninterested and defeated. I also think Gasol made an extra effort to show how tough he was (seriously, he was acting the whole game, making exaggerated tough guy groans and faces..... looked theatrical and premeditated).

[DMAVS41]

Wait, you're actually trying to argue that they lost because of Kobe's play today?

I would hope not, but again, I've seen you (unless I'm mistaken) harshly blame Lebron for his game 6 in 2010 against the Celtics.

Maybe you can clear it up. Do you think Lebron should be blamed more for his team losing that game?

[gengiskhan]

Kobe with a fantastic scoring game in a losing effort, but I felt that his strategy to come out gunning early, looking for his shot and his shot only, was the wrong one. It alienated his teammates early and consequently they never got into any sort of rhythm. I can count on one hand the number of times they actually tried to establish Gasol or Bynum in the post in the first half, and it was even less in the second half. Obviously some of the onus is on the other Lakers to find their own ways to contribute to the game, but as the star, I don't think the way Kobe played today was conducive to winning despite his efficiency and him having his best offensive game of the series.

It was a combination of two things imo:

A) The fact that he came out immediately gunning, never looking to establish their inside game or try to get others involved, that alienated his teammates and didn't allow anyone to get into an offensive rhythm.

B) The type of ball he was playing (i.e,m that his shots were all on extended isos where he monopolized the ball for 6-8+ seconds also contributed to alienating his teammates. If more of his scores were off the ball on quick catch-and-shoots, offensive putbacks, run-outs on steals etc. at least other guys would have had the feel of the ball in their hands and felt more invested in the game.

Yes, you can't afford to wait until the second half to turn it on against an explosive team like OKC, so if after the first 8-14 minutes of the game things are going south, by all means shoot the ball. But imo looking to shoot every time you touch the ball from the opening tip isn't conducive to winning basketball games at this level.

Props to OKC, who showed tremendous poise throughout the series for such a young team. Spurs/OKC is gonna be a tremendous series.

well said.

OKL was looking to kobe to gun every shot from first min of the game. & Kobe did exactly that.

Kobe as a franchise player is finished a while ago IMO. That 2nd ring he won in 2010 is because of that team effort he still believed in.

Phil Jackson was smart enough to know to control Kobe, limit his FGA & establish the low post play when you have extremely talented big men.

Mike Brown is a joke as a head coach.

[LakersReign]

well said.

OKL was looking to kobe to gun every shot from first min of the game. & Kobe did exactly that.

Kobe as a franchise player is finished a while ago IMO. That 2nd ring he won in 2010 is because of that team effort he still believed in.

Phil Jackson was smart enough to know to control Kobe, limit his FGA & establish the low post play when you have extremely talented big men.

Mike Brown is a joke as a head coach.

Y'all said that same hot garbage in '05 when Shaq left.:rolleyes:

(yawn):sleeping

[Phenith]

More FGA than the next 3 players combined and 0 assists is just a flat out epic fail.

Hope Kobe is happy with that 42 pt game when he is on the golf course.

Kobe's biggest problem in his career is that he doesn't trust his team mates, in turn, his team mates have a hard time playing with him cuz they don't know from possession to possession if Kobe will give up the ball this time down the court.

Kobe needs a coach that will be hard on him when he gets like this (ala Zen Master) or he will just do what he wants.

[Punpun]

That's a lie Zenith. And seeing your young age, seems like that lie was fed to you by either the media or your parents. FAIL!

[gengiskhan]

More FGA than the next 3 players combined and 0 assists is just a flat out epic fail.

Hope Kobe is happy with that 42 pt game when he is on the golf course.

Kobe's biggest problem in his career is that he doesn't trust his team mates, in turn, his team mates have a hard time playing with him cuz they don't know from possession to possession if Kobe will give up the ball this time down the court.

Kobe needs a coach that will be hard on him when he gets like this (ala Zen Master) or he will just do what he wants.

Phil Jackson kept this Chokbe moron's FGA under check. In turn, he turned LAL into a formidable unit.

Phil is gone. Chokbe is chucking at Gasol's & Bynum's expense. Phil was actually right. Kobe is "uncoachable"

He is most overrated leader & franchise player NBA has ever produced.

[INDI]

It really is remarkable that Kobe had 0 assists. I don't think that directly led to the loss as he did score 42. I just was shocked to see that he recorded not 1 assist, even one through a circumstantial possesion.

Hate to play devils advocate but couldn't it also mean that guys was missing shots?????

Not recording an assist doesn't mean that he didn't pass the ball

[Da_Realist]

Kobe didn't pass unless he was force to last night. His play fed right into OKC's strength because it allowed them to run up and down the court which eventually wore down the Lakers. Kobe was playing for himself last night, I don't care what y'all say. That fourth quarter was the most selfish quarter I've ever seen anyone play. :biggums:

Kobe doesn't have a "will to win", he has a "will to score". All his 42 points did was give his 12 year old cheerleaders an excuse to blame the rest of the team. Nobody can get in a rhythm with someone with that much clout in the organization deciding to be that selfish.

Those guys that helped him win 2 titles stopped playing when they realized they weren't gonna get the ball. It's not in Gasol's nature to hijack the offense to look for his shot but that's what Kobe forced him to do last night. 5-14 cause he was out of character. And Bynum did not want to play last night at all.

You cheerleaders can now get in your mama's car and ride off into the sunset with a smile on your face because your dreamboat just scored 42 points.

[Da_Realist]

Hate to play devils advocate but couldn't it also mean that guys was missing shots?????

Not recording an assist doesn't mean that he didn't pass the ball

He didn't pass the ball until he had no other option. He could have gotten one garbage assist in the 4th quarter but Gasol missed it. It was poetic justice because Kobe didn't deserve to have even one assist with the way he was playing.

[Qwertyazerty]

...
Perhaps if Gasol and Bynum showed up to play, and the bench showed up to play, the Lakers wouldn't have lost that game...


So basicaly all the team was responsable but Kobe??? It may be drastic as a statement but, for such a ball sharing rate, having 0 assists is meaningful no mater what you say. Kobe played a great individual game today (which is what his fans wants him to do), but it is not insane to debate weather or not a 30 points - 6 assists statline would or wouldn't have helped more his team today.

Nevermind, as Sartre would say... "L'enfer c'est les autres"

[Punpun]

Stop raping Sartre.

[caliman]

Kobe didn't pass unless he was force to last night. His play fed right into OKC's strength because it allowed them to run up and down the court which eventually wore down the Lakers. Kobe was playing for himself last night, I don't care what y'all say. That fourth quarter was the most selfish quarter I've ever seen anyone play.


The game was lost with Kobe on the bench to start the 4th. No matter what he did when he got back into the game the Lakers were toast.

[Da_Realist]

The game was lost with Kobe on the bench to start the 4th. No matter what he did when he got back into the game the Lakers were toast.

Why such a defeatist attitude?

In Game 4 (in LA), the Thunder were down 13 points with 8:02 left in the game and came back to win by 3.

In Game 5 (in OKC), the Lakers were down 16 points with 9:25 left in the game and lost by 16 points.

The Lakers could have won had they played like a team just like the Thunder did the game before. They didn't. And they lost without so much as shaving one point off the lead in the final 9+ minutes. Which team had the championship experience? Which team had the "game's best closer"? Why did OKC show more poise than the Lakers did throughout the series?

Why should we believe that it was ok for Kobe to just do what he wanted because it wouldn't have mattered anyway when we saw OKC pull it off just the game before?

The game wasn't lost because the Lakers were down 16 when Kobe checked back in -- we've seen teams come back from that --, the game was lost because the Lakers were not playing as a team and mentally checked out by then. Now the real question is...why weren't they playing like a team?

[Heavincent]

Kobe didn't pass unless he was force to last night. His play fed right into OKC's strength because it allowed them to run up and down the court which eventually wore down the Lakers. Kobe was playing for himself last night, I don't care what y'all say. That fourth quarter was the most selfish quarter I've ever seen anyone play. :biggums:

Kobe doesn't have a "will to win", he has a "will to score". All his 42 points did was give his 12 year old cheerleaders an excuse to blame the rest of the team. Nobody can get in a rhythm with someone with that much clout in the organization deciding to be that selfish.

Those guys that helped him win 2 titles stopped playing when they realized they weren't gonna get the ball. It's not in Gasol's nature to hijack the offense to look for his shot but that's what Kobe forced him to do last night. 5-14 cause he was out of character. And Bynum did not want to play last night at all.

You cheerleaders can now get in your mama's car and ride off into the sunset with a smile on your face because your dreamboat just scored 42 points.

Well you were gonna blame Kobe no matter what he did, so it's not like this post is to be taken seriously.

[bwink23]

Well you were gonna blame Kobe no matter what he did, so it's not like this post is to be taken seriously.


I took this post more serious than any post you would make...

Your answer:

1. 42 points.
2. 5 rings.
3. Kobe's balls are nice.

[Round Mound]

"Anyone Can Score If They Shoot Often (33 FGAs!) Enough"

:applause:

O Assists = Ballhogg and NonePlayMaker

[gengiskhan]

"Anyone Can Score If They Shoot Often (33 FGAs!) Enough"

:applause:

O Assists = Ballhogg and NonePlayMaker

Well said!

the easiest thing to do in NBA.......Shoot....& Score

Every player likes doing that. The reason why they warm up with scoring baskets & not blocking shots.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Why such a defeatist attitude?

In Game 4 (in LA), the Thunder were down 13 points with 8:02 left in the game and came back to win by 3.

In Game 5 (in OKC), the Lakers were down 16 points with 9:25 left in the game and lost by 16 points.

The Lakers could have won had they played like a team just like the Thunder did the game before. They didn't. And they lost without so much as shaving one point off the lead in the final 9+ minutes. Which team had the championship experience? Which team had the "game's best closer"? Why did OKC show more poise than the Lakers did throughout the series?

Why should we believe that it was ok for Kobe to just do what he wanted because it wouldn't have mattered anyway when we saw OKC pull it off just the game before?

The game wasn't lost because the Lakers were down 16 when Kobe checked back in -- we've seen teams come back from that --, the game was lost because the Lakers were not playing as a team and mentally checked out by then. Now the real question is...why weren't they playing like a team?

+1

PS - LA was only down 14 when Kobe checked back in.

[Knoe Itawl]

Kobe doesn't have a "will to win", he has a "will to score".

Great quote. I'd just alter it slightly to "Kobe doesn't have a will to win, he has a will to win with him being hero, which to him means by scoring".

[chazzy]

ITT: MJ stan/Kobe hater circle jerk

[Mr. Jabbar]

Well you were gonna blame Kobe no matter what he did, so it's not like this post is to be taken seriously.

exactly :oldlol:

its pointless to talk to a kobe hater, they flip flop accordingly to the situation, basically reach for anything to dwngrade him, when all fails, log off, wait till he has a bad game. :roll:

worst thing is, they really think they are accomplishing something and their agenda is not blatantly obvious to everyone...like any analyst with half a brain won't put kobe in his top 8 GOAT list right now, they're only fooling themselves :facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Great quote. I'd just alter it slightly to "Kobe doesn't have a will to win, he has a will to win with him being hero, which to him means by scoring".

Seemed pretty happy collecting his 5th ring primarily with defense and rebounding

:confusedshrug:

http://mrsgrapevine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Kobe-Celebrates-NBA-Final-Win.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

IN before the Jordan mythologists claim that celebratory gesture was invented by Jordan

[Lebron23]

Kobe will always be a B1tch.

[Remix]

You guys take stats way too seriously.

You realize to get an assist a player has to make a basket right? Kobe made a couple passes to Gasol for his bread and butter 18fter at the top of the key which he missed. He passed to Sessions cutting for a layup which he missed. You stat junkies basically are saying players like Bruce Bowen and Battier are bad on defense because they don't always get steals and rebounds.

6 of Kobe's shots were dunks. Chucker chucker chucker. SHOOTING guards are supposed to pass!!11!111

Another one of his shots he got Harden in the air and should have drawn a foul, which wasnt called. Don't know if you have ever played basketball before, but jumpshooters are supposed to jump into the defender if they are in the air.

And saying that he went into chuck mode in the 1st quarter was a recipe for disaster is ridiculous. The Thunder were scoring at will on the Lakers. They had so many breakdowns in the halfcourt D. You can't keep feeding players the ball to "wait for them to get going" while the other team continues to score at will. If Bynum and Gasol wanted to get some easy baskets, why don't they actually use their 7ft frame and attack the offensive glass for once? Atleast prove you can score on some garbage points rather than wasting a possession on trying to "get going". The Lakers would have lost the game in the 1st instead of the 4th if it wasnt for Kobe.

And how about the Lakers doing better with Kobe on the bench in the 2nd? Sure isn't hard when Durant and Westbrook are on the bench too. What happened to start the 4th? That's where the game was lost. If the bench had kept the game close in the 4th to allow Kobe more time to rest, the outcome MAY have been different. Not saying Kobe doesn't deserve blame for other loses in this series, but to say he had anything to do with game 5 is absurd.

[Heilige]

Kobe didn't pass unless he was force to last night. His play fed right into OKC's strength because it allowed them to run up and down the court which eventually wore down the Lakers. Kobe was playing for himself last night, I don't care what y'all say. That fourth quarter was the most selfish quarter I've ever seen anyone play. :biggums:

Kobe doesn't have a "will to win", he has a "will to score". All his 42 points did was give his 12 year old cheerleaders an excuse to blame the rest of the team. Nobody can get in a rhythm with someone with that much clout in the organization deciding to be that selfish.

Those guys that helped him win 2 titles stopped playing when they realized they weren't gonna get the ball. It's not in Gasol's nature to hijack the offense to look for his shot but that's what Kobe forced him to do last night. 5-14 cause he was out of character. And Bynum did not want to play last night at all.

You cheerleaders can now get in your mama's car and ride off into the sunset with a smile on your face because your dreamboat just scored 42 points.


If Kobe only cares about scoring, why didn't he do that in Game 7 against the Suns in 2006? Why did he call out management if he only cares about scoring?

[LakersReign]

exactly :oldlol:

its pointless to talk to a kobe hater, they flip flop accordingly to the situation, basically reach for anything to dwngrade him, when all fails, log off, wait till he has a bad game. :roll:

worst thing is, they really think they are accomplishing something and their agenda is not blatantly obvious to everyone...like any analyst with half a brain won't put kobe in his top 8 GOAT list right now, they're only fooling themselves :facepalm


That's simply cuz they know nothing about anything, which includes basketball, and obviously have nothing better to do. They want to try to convince people to their way of thinking, but can't put together a coherent argument to do so. Which is exactly why people don't take them seriously. They come online, spouting their crap cuz they can't do it in public, since normal people would laugh in their faces. Any sports analyst who doesn't have Kobe on a Top 10 GOAT list, doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about.

[Mr. Jabbar]

That's simply cuz they know nothing about anything, which includes basketball, and obviously have nothing better to do. They want to try to convince people to their way of thinking, but can't put together a coherent argument to do so. Which is exactly why people don't take them seriously. They come online, spouting their crap cuz they can't do it in public, since normal people would laugh in their faces. Any sports analyst who doesn't have Kobe on a Top 10 GOAT list, doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about.

:roll:

[stax]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2it1rm1.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

+1

PS - LA was only down 14 when Kobe checked back in.

You are pathetic.

[Lebron23]

Next year if the Lakers continues playing Kobe ball. Your team will never advance in the conference finals ever again. Who wants Pau Gasol's contract? The dude is clearly past his prime.

[RazorBaLade]

Next year if the Lakers continues playing Kobe ball. Your team will never advance in the conference finals ever again. Who wants Pau Gasol's contract? The dude is clearly past his prime.

>Kobe ball wins 2 championships
>3 Seasons lost when Pau is playing poorly (kobe ball has no good 2nd option in offense consistently)
>Pau is clearly now out of prime

kobe ball is the problem.

i dont see that jump.

Give kobe another top tier number two and he's winning again.

[gengiskhan]

>Kobe ball wins 2 championships

Kobe ball lost 2 rings. 2004 & 2008

Team ball kobe played won him 2 rings thanks to Big Men.


kobe ball is the problem.

dont contradict yourself. Agree to this in first place.


Give kobe another top tier number two and he's winning again.

If you meant winning by winning first round series. then yes. He aint advancing beyong 2nd round ever again with 25 FGA in POs. He just too inefficient.

Kobe must score no more than 20-22 ppg with top tier number 1b. only way he is winning NBA ring. No more big men to save his chucking shot jocking a$$.

no option 1b will be happy with kobe chucking away.

[DMAVS41]

>Kobe ball wins 2 championships
>3 Seasons lost when Pau is playing poorly (kobe ball has no good 2nd option in offense consistently)
>Pau is clearly now out of prime

kobe ball is the problem.

i dont see that jump.

Give kobe another top tier number two and he's winning again.

Sure. If he also has Bynum and an elite coach and he plays better himself.

But again, you could say that about a lot of players. Which leads me to believe that you think winning a title is more dependent on the team a player has...than the player himself.

Which, if that is how you feel, makes your statements regarding "5 rings" and calling other players out for not winning kind of hypocritical.

[guy]

>Kobe ball wins 2 championships
>3 Seasons lost when Pau is playing poorly (kobe ball has no good 2nd option in offense consistently)
>Pau is clearly now out of prime

kobe ball is the problem.

i dont see that jump.

Give kobe another top tier number two and he's winning again.

Besides Kobe and Bynum, who exactly is clearly a better player then Pau now? I'd say Lebron, Wade, Durant, CP3, Howard, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, Love, Dirk, Rondo, Parker. So you think replacing Pau with one of those guys would get Kobe winning again? For some of those guys where the fit isn't bad, NO SHIT. What's your point? That instead of having 2 other top 15 players in the league, Kobe needs even better then that to win now? :oldlol:

[RRR3]

That's simply cuz they know nothing about anything, which includes basketball, and obviously have nothing better to do. They want to try to convince people to their way of thinking, but can't put together a coherent argument to do so. Which is exactly why people don't take them seriously. They come online, spouting their crap cuz they can't do it in public, since normal people would laugh in their faces. Any sports analyst who doesn't have Kobe on a Top 10 GOAT list, doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm Wow. Kobe being a top 10 GOAT is not a fact. Jesus Christ, Kobe stans smh.

[DMAVS41]

Besides Kobe and Bynum, who exactly is clearly a better player then Pau now? I'd say Lebron, Wade, Durant, CP3, Howard, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, Love, Dirk, Rondo, Parker. So you think replacing Pau with one of those guys would get Kobe winning again? No shit, at least for most of those guys where the fit isn't bad. What's your point? That instead of having 2 other top 15 players in the league, Kobe needs even better then that to win now? :oldlol:

I know. I just have to laugh.

What a bold statement. Well, if Kobe had Bynum, Paul, and a better bench he'd win.

And I'm not ready to even concede that they would win with Kobe playing at the level he has in the last two years in the playoffs. Razor has the audacity to call Dirk's series against the Thunder something entirely different than Kobe's. But of course he's probably still asking us to not count Kobe's 4th qtrs....ROFL

[RRR3]

I know. I just have to laugh.

What a bold statement. Well, if Kobe had Bynum, Paul, and a better bench he'd win.

And I'm not ready to even concede that they would win with Kobe playing at the level he has in the last two years in the playoffs. Razor has the audacity to call Dirk's series against the Thunder something entirely different than Kobe's. But of course he's probably still asking us to not count Kobe's 4th qtrs....ROFL
These are the same people who always joke about "LeBron needs more help" too, remember?
The ironing:rolleyes:

[guy]

I know. I just have to laugh.

What a bold statement. Well, if Kobe had Bynum, Paul, and a better bench he'd win.

And I'm not ready to even concede that they would win with Kobe playing at the level he has in the last two years in the playoffs. Razor has the audacity to call Dirk's series against the Thunder something entirely different than Kobe's. But of course he's probably still asking us to not count Kobe's 4th qtrs....ROFL

Agree with your last point. People talk about how CP3 would've been such a huge upgrade. I'm not sure that would've really been the case. Not sure they would've meshed well, and if CP3 got hurt and Kobe went into chuck mode and had some of the bad 4th quarters he's had, could easily still have seen them lost.

Its really ridiculous how entitled they feel Kobe should be. They ignore that as far as teams go, Kobe has had relatively better teams around him on average for his career then almost everyone in history except for arguably Russell, Magic, Bird, and Shaq (and I'd say those 4 were more responsible for there teammates being better then Kobe was). He's literally had enough help around him to compete for a title for 13 out of 16 seasons. He gets alot of credit for that due to his work ethic, consistency, competitiveness, and overall great play which makes it easier to build around someone like that, but the way his fans act like he's been dealt such a bad hand is really ridiculous.

[LA_Showtime]

I was drunk when I watched the game, so it's hard to say if Kobe played the right way. But merely looking at the stat sheet, it's hard to blame the guy for scoring over 40 points and shooting a high percentage. Then again, he put up 38 points in game five and that was as selfish as I've seen him in a playoff game.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

12.8 ppg and 8.8 rebounds on 43% shooting from a big man playing inconsistent defense the past two postseasons is a top 15 player in the league.

Are you guys serious?

[DMAVS41]

I was drunk when I watched the game, so it's hard to say if Kobe played the right way. But merely looking at the stat sheet, it's hard to blame the guy for scoring over 40 points and shooting a high percentage. Then again, he put up 38 points in game five and that was as selfish as I've seen him in a playoff game.

Blaming Kobe for his play in game 5 is a little silly. He came to play...and his teammates really didn't. Anytime a player makes over 50% of their shots...offensively its just a good game unless you turn it over a ton...which Kobe did not do.

However, I will never get behind a team playing Kobe ball to that extent because it alienates his teammates too much...regardless of how well he's scoring.

With Kobe, for some reason, he has always struggled to get his in the flow of the offense. That is where Phil and the Triangle helped so much.

You can be ball dominant and still be unselfish, but Kobe does not do that. He's ball dominant and selfish...and that is a pretty terrible combination unless you have a perfect team around you. And the Lakers are far from the teams Kobe had around him in 09 and 10 in terms of fit, overall help, and coaching....not to mention the competition is better now. The Thunder this year are quite easily better than any team the Lakers playing in 09.....and quite easily better than any team the Lakers played in 10 outside of the Celtics.

[DMAVS41]

12.8 ppg and 8.8 rebounds on 43% shooting from a big man playing inconsistent defense the past two postseasons is a top 15 player in the league.

Are you guys serious?

I don't know if I would rank Gasol in the top 15 right now, but his role on the team is far more responsible for his production than his actual play.

Would you say the same thing about Kobe if he only got 16 shots a game while playing out of position with a ball dominant shoot first and pass rarely pg?

I don't think that makes Kobe a worse player....just a victim of his position and role on a team that isn't optimal.

That isn't to say Gasol is free from blame, but I think playing out of position and with arguably the two biggest black holes in the game is pretty damn big factor.

[LA_Showtime]

Blaming Kobe for his play in game 5 is a little silly. He came to play...and his teammates really didn't. Anytime a player makes over 50% of their shots...offensively its just a good game unless you turn it over a ton...which Kobe did not do.

However, I will never get behind a team playing Kobe ball to that extent because it alienates his teammates too much...regardless of how well he's scoring.

With Kobe, for some reason, he has always struggled to get his in the flow of the offense. That is where Phil and the Triangle helped so much.

You can be ball dominant and still be unselfish, but Kobe does not do that. He's ball dominant and selfish...and that is a pretty terrible combination unless you have a perfect team around you. And the Lakers are far from the teams Kobe had around him in 09 and 10 in terms of fit, overall help, and coaching....not to mention the competition is better now. The Thunder this year are quite easily better than any team the Lakers playing in 09.....and quite easily better than any team the Lakers played in 10 outside of the Celtics.

I'll re-watch the game later, but regardless of what people think Kobe can't win. His approach to game 7 in the Denver series was perfect, and yet people called him out for not scoring more points and putting his stamp on the game. Those same people called him out after putting up 38 (?) and 42 points, respectively.

[LA_Showtime]

You can be ball dominant and still be unselfish, but Kobe does not do that. He's ball dominant and selfish...and that is a pretty terrible combination unless you have a perfect team around you. And the Lakers are far from the teams Kobe had around him in 09 and 10 in terms of fit, overall help, and coaching....not to mention the competition is better now. The Thunder this year are quite easily better than any team the Lakers playing in 09.....and quite easily better than any team the Lakers played in 10 outside of the Celtics.


I don't see why that matters at all. For one, the Lakers are a lot worse then they were two or three years ago, namely because Kobe and Gasol have declined. And two, the Lakers were hardly stacked during that two-year championship run. Kobe and Gasol were great, but everyone else was inconsistent at best. The only reason they even won in the first place was because they caught a lot of breaks.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I don't know if I would rank Gasol in the top 15 right now, but his role on the team is far more responsible for his production than his actual play.

Would you say the same thing about Kobe if he only got 16 shots a game while playing out of position with a ball dominant shoot first and pass rarely pg?

I don't think that makes Kobe a worse player....just a victim of his position and role on a team that isn't optimal.

That isn't to say Gasol is free from blame, but I think playing out of position and with arguably the two biggest black holes in the game is pretty damn big factor.

Overall Pau's usage percentage last year was on par with every other year he has been a Laker.

:confusedshrug:

[LA_Showtime]

I don't know if I would rank Gasol in the top 15 right now, but his role on the team is far more responsible for his production than his actual play.

Would you say the same thing about Kobe if he only got 16 shots a game while playing out of position with a ball dominant shoot first and pass rarely pg?

I don't think that makes Kobe a worse player....just a victim of his position and role on a team that isn't optimal.

That isn't to say Gasol is free from blame, but I think playing out of position and with arguably the two biggest black holes in the game is pretty damn big factor.

I would like to say Gasol's numbers were primarily a system change, but that doesn't explain his effort, namely defensively. At this point Gasol's arguably not even a top five power forward, so there's no way he's even close to being a top 15 player overall.

[LA_Showtime]

Anyway, our first priority has to be finding a legitimate point guard who's not afraid to defer from Kobe and get the other guys involved. It would be nice if we had a legitimate coach, too, but I'd say our need for a game manager >>>>>>> any problems Mike Brown brings to the table. Given that we have few if any trade pieces, I'm all for dealing Bynum. Yes, he may eventually grow up, but he doesn't seem happy playing next to Kobe (I don't really blame him), and he won't get an opportunity to be the star for 2-3 years (which again, I don't blame him for being angry about). If we can swap Bynum and a 1st round pick for say Deron Williams, do it.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Blaming Kobe for his play in game 5 is a little silly. He came to play...and his teammates really didn't. Anytime a player makes over 50% of their shots...offensively its just a good game unless you turn it over a ton...which Kobe did not do.

However, I will never get behind a team playing Kobe ball to that extent because it alienates his teammates too much...regardless of how well he's scoring.

With Kobe, for some reason, he has always struggled to get his in the flow of the offense. That is where Phil and the Triangle helped so much.

You can be ball dominant and still be unselfish, but Kobe does not do that. He's ball dominant and selfish...and that is a pretty terrible combination unless you have a perfect team around you. And the Lakers are far from the teams Kobe had around him in 09 and 10 in terms of fit, overall help, and coaching....not to mention the competition is better now. The Thunder this year are quite easily better than any team the Lakers playing in 09.....and quite easily better than any team the Lakers played in 10 outside of the Celtics.

bolded for most commonly underlooked thing

[guy]

12.8 ppg and 8.8 rebounds on 43% shooting from a big man playing inconsistent defense the past two postseasons is a top 15 player in the league.

Are you guys serious?

I named 14 players that I would say are CLEARLY better then him at this point. Tell me who else is clearly better then him at this point if you disagree. Other players have to be better then him for him to not be that good.

Once you get out of the top 5 or so players in the league, bad playoffs runs aren't really uncommon.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I named 14 players that I would say are CLEARLY better then him at this point. Tell me who else is clearly better then him at this point if you disagree. Other players have to be better then him for him to not be that good.

Once you get out of the top 5 or so players in the league, bad playoffs runs aren't really uncommon.
Did you list Ibaka? Did you list Faried? Both out-played Gasol.

[guy]

I would like to say Gasol's numbers were primarily a system change, but that doesn't explain his effort, namely defensively. At this point Gasol's arguably not even a top five power forward, so there's no way he's even close to being a top 15 player overall.

Love and Dirk are the only ones inarguably better. LMA and Blake haven't really done enough and Blake is more of a stat machine anyway, and Duncan and KG are old and we have to just wait and see if they can keep up their current impact to say they're back to being inarguably better. Amare and Z-Bo just had relatively terrible seasons riddled with injuries, and Bosh is really nothing but a jumpshooter nowadays. I don't see how he is not a top 5 PF.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I named 14 players that I would say are CLEARLY better then him at this point. Tell me who else is clearly better then him at this point if you disagree. Other players have to be better then him for him to not be that good.

Once you get out of the top 5 or so players in the league, bad playoffs runs aren't really uncommon.

With such an absurdly large qualifier is any starting PF clearly better than another?

Was Pau Gasol even clearly better than Serge Ibaka and/or Kenneth Farrred this postseason?

[guy]

Did you list Ibaka? Did you list Faried? Both out-played Gasol.

:oldlol: Ibaka and Faried are better? You are all amazing.

[DMAVS41]

I would like to say Gasol's numbers were primarily a system change, but that doesn't explain his effort, namely defensively. At this point Gasol's arguably not even a top five power forward, so there's no way he's even close to being a top 15 player overall.

Well. It is clearly more than just position....as I have said.

However, his changed position and role is clearly the most important factor imo.

[guy]

With such an absurdly large qualifier is any starting PF clearly better than another?

Was Pau Gasol even clearly better than Serge Ibaka and/or Kenneth Farrred this postseason?

What qualifier? That other players have to be better then him for him to not be top 15? Thats not a qualifier. Thats basic math. :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What qualifier? That other players have to be better then him for him to not be top 15? Thats not a qualifier. Thats basic math. :oldlol:

"Clearly better"

What does clearly better mean? Better stats? Better efficiency? Better PER? Better win shares?

The only thing Pau Gasol was clearly better than Farried and Ibaka in the postseason at was passing

:confusedshrug:

http://bkref.com/tiny/7JAKG

[DMAVS41]

What qualifier? That other players have to be better then him for him to not be top 15? Thats not a qualifier. Thats basic math. :oldlol:

Gasol averaged 13/10/4 in the playoffs this year. Not great by any means....but hardly terrible.

What I find funny is that all we heard last year was how great Chandler was for the Mavs and how valuable he was. He was a player that put up 8/9/0 and while he played far better defense, he also couldn't get his own shot or space the floor or pass the ball at all.

Who cares if Gasol is top 15 or top 20 or top 25? It really doesn't matter. He's a great guy to have as the third best player on your team....and he's a guy that still produced just fine being relegated to playing a role he's not well suited to play at all.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Gasol averaged 13/10/4 in the playoffs this year. Not great by any means....but hardly terrible.

What I find funny is that all we heard last year was how great Chandler was for the Mavs and how valuable he was. He was a player that put up 8/9/0 and while he played far better defense, he also couldn't get his own shot or space the floor or pass the ball at all.

Who cares if Gasol is top 15 or top 20 or top 25? It really doesn't matter. He's a great guy to have as the third best player on your team....and he's a guy that still produced just fine being relegated to playing a role he's not well suited to play at all.

Just fine isn't good enough if you are not outplaying the other playoff teams role players.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe was playing for himself last night, I don't care what y'all say.

So why did you ask for what people say if you don't care?


Kobe doesn't have a "will to win", he has a "will to score"

You saying this in 2012? Seriously?

So what exactly does he have to do show us that "will to win"?

Start getting double digit assists?

Who has that "will to win"? What's he lacking for that "will"?

[guy]

"Clearly better"

What does clearly better mean? Better stats? Better efficiency? Better PER? Better win shares?

The only thing Pau Gasol was clearly better than Farried and Ibaka in the postseason at was passing

:confusedshrug:

http://bkref.com/tiny/7JAKG

:oldlol: Did you seriously just use their per 36 minutes to say they're comparable statistically? Per 36 makes Greg Steisma clearly one of the best shotblockers in the league.

Its not that hard. Whatever your criteria is, who do you think is inarguably better then Gasol? If its at least 15 players, then we'll have to just disagree and I'll probably have a laugh if its players like Farried and Ibaka.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe with a fantastic scoring game in a losing effort, but I felt that his strategy to come out gunning early, looking for his shot and his shot only, was the wrong one. It alienated his teammates early and consequently they never got into any sort of rhythm. I can count on one hand the number of times they actually tried to establish Gasol or Bynum in the post in the first half, and it was even less in the second half. Obviously some of the onus is on the other Lakers to find their own ways to contribute to the game, but as the star, I don't think the way Kobe played today was conducive to winning despite his efficiency and him having his best offensive game of the series.

It was a combination of two things imo:

A) The fact that he came out immediately gunning, never looking to establish their inside game or try to get others involved, that alienated his teammates and didn't allow anyone to get into an offensive rhythm.

B) The type of ball he was playing (i.e,m that his shots were all on extended isos where he monopolized the ball for 6-8+ seconds also contributed to alienating his teammates. If more of his scores were off the ball on quick catch-and-shoots, offensive putbacks, run-outs on steals etc. at least other guys would have had the feel of the ball in their hands and felt more invested in the game.

Yes, you can't afford to wait until the second half to turn it on against an explosive team like OKC, so if after the first 8-14 minutes of the game things are going south, by all means shoot the ball. But imo looking to shoot every time you touch the ball from the opening tip isn't conducive to winning basketball games at this level.

Props to OKC, who showed tremendous poise throughout the series for such a young team. Spurs/OKC is gonna be a tremendous series.


- did you even watch the game???


- for F's sake!....Pau couldn't hit the Queen Mary if he was standing on it!..dude was shooting like prime Chris Dudley.

- Bynum was slow in the post getting every shot rejected...Kobe kept the Lakers in the Game the whole first half.....when he went to the bench in the 2nd half the Lakers lost control.



- you guy's slighting a 5X champion for trying to beat a stacked OKC team with Gasoft and Bynum doing nothing in the first half is.....silly.


and sad.












Kobe = trying top will his team to a championship....wich he has done a masterfull job of for the past decade.











next>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[tpols]

I named 14 players that I would say are CLEARLY better then him at this point. Tell me who else is clearly better then him at this point if you disagree. Other players have to be better then him for him to not be that good.

Once you get out of the top 5 or so players in the league, bad playoffs runs aren't really uncommon.
Who could've produced better than 12ppg on 44% shooting/mediocre defense as a big man?

Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldridge
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Zach Randolph
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Luis Scola
Ibaka, as we watched him thoroughly outplay Gasol in this series.

^These guys would have ALL produced better than that hands down. Then you have guys like..

Tyson Chandler
Roy Hibbert
Amare Stoudemire
David West
Shit.. even Carl Landry who outperformed Gasol last year in the first round.

Pau Gasol has played like SHIT. There are a lot of guys that could've replaced his shit production. I'm not even going to go through all the point guards that we couldve goten for him that would have made a much bigger impact on LA's success as their PGs played like shit as well.

[tpols]

With such an absurdly large qualifier is any starting PF clearly better than another?

Was Pau Gasol even clearly better than Serge Ibaka and/or Kenneth Farrred this postseason?
Pau Gasol has been outplayed by every single PF the last 2 years in all 4 series..

Carl Landry
Dirk
Kenneth Faried
Ibaka

These guys see him, and target him because he's soft(with the only exception being Dirk.. he just murked him with skill).. and then they proceed to beat the shit out of him. The PF matchup has been a losing one for LA for 2 years now. Pretty much ANY other PF would flourish next to Bynum and wouldnt be taken advantage of like Pau has been.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:oldlol: Did you seriously just use their per 36 minutes to say they're comparable statistically? Per 36 makes Greg Steisma clearly one of the best shotblockers in the league.

Its not that hard. Whatever your criteria is, who do you think is inarguably better then Gasol? If its at least 15 players, then we'll have to just disagree and I'll probably have a laugh if its players like Farried and Ibaka.

No I was looking at per possession numbers. Ibaka and Faried averaged about 28 mins a game in the playoffs about 3 times as many minutes as Steisma.

:confusedshrug:

Laugh it up because you certainly cant articulate a point. Forget other position players. Can you show me any starting power forward this post season that Pau Gasol was clearly better than this year and how did you come to that conclusion?

[tpols]

:oldlol: Ibaka and Faried are better? You are all amazing.
Faried went head to head with Pau 2 weeks ago:oldlol:

10/10/1 on 53%FG

versus

13/9/2 on 43%FG

Who won that matchup?

And then we all saw Ibaka lock up Gasol in this last series while forcing him into shooting 44% and averaging 4 blocks per game. Both
Faried and Ibaka had bigger impacts for their teams than Pau did for the Lakers.

But lets consult some arbitrary Top 15 player list when we saw with our eyes what happened in head to head fvcking matchups.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe made more Field Goals (18) than the rest of his team combined (16).
What a horrible performance by Kobe

[gengiskhan]

Kobe made more Field Goals (18) than the rest of his team combined (16).
What a horrible performance by Kobe

what do you expect from a ballhog who took 33 FGA (more than rest of the team) & had ZERO assists (least of the rest of the starting line up).

[Phong]

what do you expect from a ballhog who took 33 FGA (more than rest of the team) & had ZERO assists (least of the rest of the starting line up).The rest of the team took 42 shots and made 16 of them (38% FG%). The PGs had a combined 4 assists.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The rest of the team took 42 shots and made 16 of them (38% FG%). The PGs had a combined 4 assists.
:oldlol:
genitalgiskhan taking it up the ass like usual

[guy]

Who could've produced better than 12ppg on 44% shooting/mediocre defense as a big man?

Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldridge
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Zach Randolph
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Luis Scola
Ibaka, as we watched him thoroughly outplay Gasol in this series.

^These guys would have ALL produced better than that hands down. Then you have guys like..

Tyson Chandler
Roy Hibbert
Amare Stoudemire
David West
Shit.. even Carl Landry who outperformed Gasol last year in the first round.

Pau Gasol has played like SHIT. There are a lot of guys that could've replaced his shit production. I'm not even going to go through all the point guards that we couldve goten for him that would have made a much bigger impact on LA's success as their PGs played like shit as well.

Okay, Gasol put up 13/10 on 43%. Lets go through this.

Would have hands down? Really? I said Kevin Love is better, so toss him out.

LMA is young and has been in 3 playoff series his whole career. And if he was playing with both Kobe and Bynum, its entirely possible he would've been that unproductive.

Chris Bosh had a very similar series vs. the Celtics last year where he went 13/10 on 40%. Bosh has never been Mr. Consistency with since he's been on the Heat.

Blake Griffin couldn't rebound or defend for shit these whole playoffs. He scored, and thats about it.

Zach Randolph put up 14/10 on 42% in the playoffs this year.

Duncan's been great this year, but only put up 13/11 last year when they got eliminated.

KG put up 14/11 on 43% vs. the Heat last year. Not much better.

Luis Scola? Put up 13/10 on 43% vs. the Lakers in 09 which was the last time he was in the playoffs.

Ibaka did not outplay Gasol. Gasol scored, rebounded, and assisted more while having alot more attention on him cause no one considers Ibaka a threat. Ibaka was a beast defensively but he didn't actually produce more. The perception is that he outplayed him cause his expectations are lower, he had better highlight plays that ignited the crowd, and they won. Trust me, trading Ibaka for Gasol would probably be a good move cause of how young he is. But if you did do that trade, you would be bitching even more due to his lack of an offensive game.

I'm not going to bother with the others. I don't really think I need to get into how stupid it is to say the likes of Amare would've definitely done better.

Its completely stupid to say all those players would produce more when theres' instances in all of their careers that they were just as bad or only a little better. And those players don't have to deal with trying to get touches from a guy that shoots 25+ shots per game.

[guy]

No I was looking at per possession numbers. Ibaka and Faried averaged about 28 mins a game in the playoffs about 3 times as many minutes as Steisma.

:confusedshrug:

Laugh it up because you certainly cant articulate a point. Forget other position players. Can you show me any starting power forward this post season that Pau Gasol was clearly better than this year and how did you come to that conclusion?

You really think any GM disregarding age and salary would seriously pick Farried or Ibaka over Gasol? Really? One playoff series where its arguable that they outplayed them doesn't change that.

Well thats easy. He was clearly better then Boozer and Amare this year. Shit, Gasol had one of the best game 7 performances in recent memory, a better game 7 then his blameless superstar teammate has ever had, while Boozer couldn't even get in the game when his team was getting eliminated and Amare punching fire extinguishers.

[guy]

Faried went head to head with Pau 2 weeks ago:oldlol:

10/10/1 on 53%FG

versus

13/9/2 on 43%FG

Who won that matchup?

And then we all saw Ibaka lock up Gasol in this last series while forcing him into shooting 44% and averaging 4 blocks per game. Both
Faried and Ibaka had bigger impacts for their teams than Pau did for the Lakers.

But lets consult some arbitrary Top 15 player list when we saw with our eyes what happened in head to head fvcking matchups.

What arbitrary list? Its opinion. Are ranking players on message boards unheard of or something?

I didn't know head to head determines everything. I guess Jason Terry > Lebron James then right? Westbrook > Kobe right? Luol Deng arguably better or equal then Wade?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You really think any GM disregarding age and salary would seriously pick Farried or Ibaka over Gasol? Really? One playoff series where its arguable that they outplayed them doesn't change that.

Well thats easy. He was clearly better then Boozer and Amare this year. Shit, Gasol had one of the best game 7 performances in recent memory, a better game 7 then his blameless superstar teammate has ever had, while Boozer couldn't even get in the game when his team was getting eliminated and Amare punching fire extinguishers.

Amare was better on offense, Boozer on defense.

:confusedshrug:

He wasn't "clearly" better than them this postseason based on the court production. If you want to "count" Amare's stupidity then you and I both outplayed Amare in the playoffs as well and that's not saying much is it.

[guy]

Amare was better on offense, Boozer on defense.

:confusedshrug:

He wasn't "clearly" better than them this postseason based on the court production. If you want to "count" Amare's stupidity then you and I both outplayed Amare in the playoffs as well and that's not saying much is it.

Boozer was better on defense? In what way? Boozer's probably the worst starting PF in the league defensively. There's a reason he wasn't playing at the end of game 6. What kind of baseless claim is that? Boozer had 2 blocks the entire playoffs. Gasol averaged that in the playoffs. Seriously, some of you just pull shit out of thin air.

Yes I am going to count his stupidity. Why wouldn't I? He missed a game because of it and his attitude in general wasn't very good. This is the same player that many people were wondering if the Knicks would've had a better chance without him in the series. As bad as Gasol was, does anyone honestly think the Lakers would've been better off without him, meaning no replacement, in these playoffs?

[Calabis]

No one on this board should have a problem with kobe shooting 33 times, he should shoot, but he needs to quit going solo so much and do it within he realm of the offense. Too many times he dribbled the ball for 5-6 seconds, before deciding to shoot....this caused dudes to stand around and watch....he had a couple backdoor cuts, and a nice jumper on a curl...why he doesn't do this more often is beyond me....its like he just doesn't get it

[tpols]

What arbitrary list? Its opinion. Are ranking players on message boards unheard of or something?

I didn't know head to head determines everything. I guess Jason Terry > Lebron James then right? Westbrook > Kobe right? Luol Deng arguably better or equal then Wade?
Did Luol Deng go head to head with Wade? Did Westbrook EVER guard Kobe and vice versa? Did Jason Terry and Lebron ever square off? Nope.. What are you talking about?

When players play like shit for an extended period of time, 4 series in Pau's case.. yes players can be considered better than them in those circumstances when they win H2H matchups. Lebron played bad for ONE series last year.. Wade played bad for ONE series last year.. Pau has FOUR straight. You're comparing anomalies to a trend.

[tpols]

Boozer was better on defense? In what way? Boozer's probably the worst starting PF in the league defensively. There's a reason he wasn't playing at the end of game 6. What kind of baseless claim is that? Boozer had 2 blocks the entire playoffs. Gasol averaged that in the playoffs. Seriously, some of you just pull shit out of thin air.

Yes I am going to count his stupidity. Why wouldn't I? He missed a game because of it and his attitude in general wasn't very good. This is the same player that many people were wondering if the Knicks would've had a better chance without him in the series. As bad as Gasol was, does anyone honestly think the Lakers would've been better off without him, meaning no replacement, in these playoffs?
It's all ready been said.. there is a list of at least 10 PFs/Cs that could've done exactly what he did or better.

[guy]

Did Luol Deng go head to head with Wade? Did Westbrook EVER guard Kobe and vice versa? Did Jason Terry and Lebron ever square off? Nope.. What are you talking about?

When players play like shit for an extended period of time, 4 series in Pau's case.. yes players can be considered better than them in those circumstances when they win H2H matchups. Lebron played bad for ONE series last year.. Wade played bad for ONE series last year.. Pau has FOUR straight. You're comparing anomalies to a trend.

If all you're talking about is players that actually go head to head, then don't bother bringing up blocks cause I'm pretty sure Ibaka didn't just block Gasol's shots.

Okay. Sure, its a trend that he's been bad the last few playoff series. Not one that I would say has to do with ability. But its not a trend that Farreed and Ibaka outplay Gasol. 5-7 games is not a trend. Now if all 4 of those series were all against Ibaka or all against Farreed, then you would have a point. Look at the last season in totality, and no one in their right mind would say they are better players then Gasol. Like I said, tell me one GM that would take Farreed or Ibaka over Gasol disregarding age and salary? You can't.

[guy]

It's all ready been said.. there is a list of at least 10 PFs/Cs that could've done exactly what he did or better.

Yea and I've pointed out they all have had instances where they've done about as bad as well in the past.

[tpols]

If all you're talking about is players that actually go head to head, then don't bother bringing up blocks cause I'm pretty sure Ibaka didn't just block Gasol's shots.

Okay. Sure, its a trend that he's been bad the last few playoff series. Not one that I would say has to do with ability. But its not a trend that Farreed and Ibaka outplay Gasol. 5-7 games is not a trend. Now if all 4 of those series were all against Ibaka or all against Farreed, then you would have a point. Look at the last season in totality, and no one in their right mind would say they are better players then Gasol. Like I said, tell me one GM that would take Farreed or Ibaka over Gasol disregarding age and salary? You can't.
Gasol has played like shit for 2 seasons straight in the playoffs.

I would've rather had the runner up DPOY in Ibaka on my team. As for Faried? He's not as good of a basketball player in general, but he completely punked Gasol. Carl Landry? Same thing.. he's not as skilled or talented, but he outplayed Gasol. Gasol right now has developed a history for underachieving and playing below his potential. He lets average players outplay him at a critical position in basketball. It's getting to a point where I would rather have a motivated Kenneth Faried or Ibaka playing alongside Bynum.

[tpols]

Yea and I've pointed out they all have had instances where they've done about as bad as well in the past.
And I 3wasnt going to go through every player on that list, but none of those guys have shown this type of trend. Everyone has had a shitty series or two.. but having 4 straight in two playoff runs isnt the same. Maybe Pau isnt meant for this system, but whatever the reason he's underachieveing big time.

[Heilige]

I'll re-watch the game later, but regardless of what people think Kobe can't win. His approach to game 7 in the Denver series was perfect, and yet people called him out for not scoring more points and putting his stamp on the game. Those same people called him out after putting up 38 (?) and 42 points, respectively.


No one complained about Kobe when he performed like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt0dkBSeMAs

[RazorBaLade]

No one complained about Kobe when he performed like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt0dkBSeMAs

Only because they won. If they didn't he'd have been blamed too.

"Bryant had 35 points and 10 assists and got plenty of scoring help from Trevor Ariza, Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom as the Lakers shot 57.3 percent from the field"

i miss those daysd..