Dwyane Wade vs. Tracy McGrady at their peaks

[StateOfMind12]

Who do you guys think was the better player between these two when they were in their prime?

I'm not sure what most people would classify as Wade's peak but most people classify McGrady's peak from '01-'05.

I actually think McGrady's peak should only be '01-'03 because he wasn't that great or special in '04 and in '05. He was in tier 1 from '01-'03 but in tier 2 in '04 and '05, at least in my opinion.

[Brick Rick]

Peak: McGrady

Prime: Wade

/thread.

[RaininTwos]

Wade's peak season of 09 is one the greatest seasons in NBA history. I feel bad that dude ran out of gas but he was MJ that year.

[G-Funk]

T-Mac all day

[nbaballllller]

the dude with the ring and fmvp

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This is tough for me. I don't think there is any version of D-Wade sans 2009 (and even then, I don't think he had the scoring-skills Mac did) that could match Tracy from 2002-2003. Guy was a freaking monster, and put up his numbers pre rule-changes.

[magnax1]

09 Wade vs 03 McGrady is very very close to me. Actually, excluding the fact that Wade's prime has lasted a bit longer already, they are very very close prime vs prime too.

[lbj23clutch]

I'll take the guy whose proven to be a winner. Wade. He's more efficient on offense and a superior defender. He also has better intangibles. Hate to say it, but T Mac is a straight up lazy ass. Much like a Carmelo Anthony. Hall of Fame talent, but poor work ethic.

[NumberSix]

Wade. Not even close.

[StateOfMind12]

I'll take the guy whose proven to be a winner. Wade. He's more efficient on offense and a superior defender. He also has better intangibles. Hate to say it, but T Mac is a straight up lazy ass. Much like a Carmelo Anthony. Hall of Fame talent, but poor work ethic.
This is really the only reason why this is a hard choice for me. I think in terms of just pure abilities and on-court abilities, McGrady at his peak was better than Wade at his but on-court abilities is not everything.

You also forgot to mention how McGrady was an awful teammate too. I honestly think McGrady is the worst teammate you could possibly have. He always blamed others for his failures especially when you talk about his 1st round exits. Every year he got hosed and eliminated in the first round, he would tell the media how his teammates suck and how he had nothing to do with the loss. There is a reason why every team he was apart of (when he was good) pretty much hates him. Toronto boos him every time he walks in the arena, same goes for Orlando and the same goes for Houston.

McGrady doesn't just have no intangibles, he has negative intangibles. He wasn't that bad during his peak in '01-'03 though but he did have some issues such as throwing his teammates under the bus. He also quit on his team although he quit on his team in 2004 which was outside of his peak years. McGrady was just really immature and practically a child and he has honestly never figured it out or changed because he is still like this today.

His weak work-ethic as you mentioned is the biggest reason why McGrady pretty much became incredibly overrated in Houston and pretty much done half way in his tenure with Houston. McGrady during his Magic years was very thin and very light and he was a freak of nature in terms of athleticism and explosion. In Houston, he became huge and practically fat due to the weak work-ethic and because of this he wasn't as explosive or as athletic anymore which robbed him from a lot of his abilities. He was very dependent on his athleticism. Even if you wanted to say he got big and fat in Houston because of he added muscle, it doesn't matter because McGrady didn't play in the post much anyways.

[Fudge]

:roll:

[iDefend5]

Tough choice, guy who won a finals MVP and a ring or a guy who never even won a playoff series.

Tough indeed.

[magnax1]

Tough choice, guy who won a finals MVP and a ring or a guy who never even won a playoff series.

Tough indeed.
Responding to your own thread? Weak. Unless you start trolling yourself. Then I approve.

[bluechox2]

tmac would crush wade if played vs in their primes...

[bdreason]

T-Mac was the better pure scorer. Wade was the better defender. Both are good passers.


I'd probably take Wade for the intangibles, but it's close.

[BuGzBuNNy]

:lol Why the sudden avatar change?

[iDefend5]

:lol Why the sudden avatar change?

Because Kevin Garnett blows and i wanted to change it to a real ****ing player. Thanks for caring about my avatar though. :D

[Fudge]

tmackobeyao01

:roll:

[BuGzBuNNy]

:coleman:

[Smoke117]

Nostalgia is fun, but Tracy Mcgrady was NEVER as good as Dwyane Wade not even during that 2003 season which Wade's 2009 season was better. Career wise Wade is just plain better, period.

[The-Legend-24]

Lol, I'll take T-Mac in a heartbeat.

[RRR3]

Lol, I'll take T-Mac in a heartbeat.
:applause: :cheers: :pimp:

[Haymaker]

T-Mac and by a mile. Impossible to defend.

[Smoke117]

Lots of ****ing fools in this thread I have to say...Tracy Mcgrady has nothing on Dwyane Wade even before he hurt his back. He had that one great season and extraordinary season and that's it. Wade shits all over him peak and career wise. You clowns don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[RRR3]

Lots of ****ing fools in this thread I have to say...Tracy Mcgrady has nothing on Dwyane Wade even before he hurt his back. He had that one great season and extraordinary season and that's it. Wade shits all over him peak and career wise. You clowns don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Stop hating on T-Mac. Peak T-Mac is the best offensive player I ever saw.:pimp: He had GOAT potential. Nothing against Wade who's obviously had a much better career.

[BuGzBuNNy]

:roll:

:facepalm

[Smoke117]

Stop hating on T-Mac. Peak T-Mac is the best offensive player I ever saw.:pimp: He had GOAT potential. Nothing against Wade who's obviously had a much better career.

What is Peak Tmac? Because 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005 etc he was nothing special efficiency wise. That 2003 season IS the ONLY the only season the great season he had as an efficient scorer. Yeah the the back problem curtailed his career so we don't know where his career, so we don't know what he could have done, but to say Peak Tmac is the best offensive player you ever saw and had GOAT potential is just absurd considering it was such a small window.

[D-Wade316]

Stop hating on T-Mac. Peak T-Mac is the best offensive player I ever saw.:pimp: He had GOAT potential. Nothing against Wade who's obviously had a much better career.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TerranOP]

This is really the only reason why this is a hard choice for me. I think in terms of just pure abilities and on-court abilities, McGrady at his peak was better than Wade at his but on-court abilities is not everything.

You also forgot to mention how McGrady was an awful teammate too. I honestly think McGrady is the worst teammate you could possibly have. He always blamed others for his failures especially when you talk about his 1st round exits. Every year he got hosed and eliminated in the first round, he would tell the media how his teammates suck and how he had nothing to do with the loss. There is a reason why every team he was apart of (when he was good) pretty much hates him. Toronto boos him every time he walks in the arena, same goes for Orlando and the same goes for Houston.

McGrady doesn't just have no intangibles, he has negative intangibles. He wasn't that bad during his peak in '01-'03 though but he did have some issues such as throwing his teammates under the bus. He also quit on his team although he quit on his team in 2004 which was outside of his peak years. McGrady was just really immature and practically a child and he has honestly never figured it out or changed because he is still like this today.

His weak work-ethic as you mentioned is the biggest reason why McGrady pretty much became incredibly overrated in Houston and pretty much done half way in his tenure with Houston. McGrady during his Magic years was very thin and very light and he was a freak of nature in terms of athleticism and explosion. In Houston, he became huge and practically fat due to the weak work-ethic and because of this he wasn't as explosive or as athletic anymore which robbed him from a lot of his abilities. He was very dependent on his athleticism. Even if you wanted to say he got big and fat in Houston because of he added muscle, it doesn't matter because McGrady didn't play in the post much anyways.

How the hell did prime Mcgrady have negative intangibles? Prime T-Mac was a force to be reckoned with. When they were up 3-1 against Detroit in the first round of '03, T-Mac had 37 points and 11 rebounds in the close-out Game 6 in Orlando. Nobody else on the team did ANYTHING in that game. Game 6 was when they were supposed to finally bring it home and take it to the next round, but no one showed up at all besides McGrady. T-Mac put EVERYTHING into that series and his teammates came up with nothing. Did you even watch it?

If you look at his playoff numbers from 2001-2003, that guy did everything he possibly could for the Magic.

2001: 33.8 points, 8.3 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals and 44.5 minutes

2002: 30.8 points, 5.5 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.8 steals and 44.5

2003: 31.7 points, 4.7 assists, 6.7 rebounds, 2 steals and 44 minutes.

How can you say that he was an awful teammate? This is exactly what happened to Kobe in 05-06 and 06-07. He put all he had into the games he played, playoffs or regular season. He constantly tried to get his teammates involved, and never snapped at them in his prime.

Admittedly, his bitterness got the best of him later in his career. He was a terrible teammate in Houston, but he was perfectly fine in Orlando. He was the best he could've possibly been for that team.

To answer the OP's question, McGrady in a heartbeat. You put any semblance of a good team around 02-03 T-Mac and they make a deep playoff run.

[D-Wade316]

Stats are per-36min

'05-'07 Wade:
25.7pts, 5.0reb, 6.6ast, 3.6tov, 58.0ts%, 28.1PER
'08-'12 Wade:
26.1pts, 5.2reb, 5.8ast, 3.1tov, 57.0ts%, 27.8PER

'00-'03 T-Mac:
25.8pts, 6.7reb, 4.7ast, 2.3tov, 54.0ts%, 26.7PER


Eat shit T-Mac fans :pimp:

[TerranOP]

Stats are per-36min

'05-'07 Wade:
25.7pts, 5.0reb, 6.6ast, 3.6tov, 58.0ts%, 28.1PER
'08-'12 Wade:
26.1pts, 5.2reb, 5.8ast, 3.1tov, 57.0ts%, 27.8PER

'00-'03 T-Mac:
25.8pts, 6.7reb, 4.7ast, 2.3tov, 54.0ts%, 26.7PER


Eat shit T-Mac fans :pimp:

Per 36 min?

LOL :roll: :roll: :roll:

Show the stats per game.

[D-Wade316]

Per 36 min?

LOL :roll: :roll: :roll:

Show the stats per game.
I'm not as stupid as you, moron. You do know the difference of playing 37 and 43 minutes right?

[StateOfMind12]

How the hell did prime Mcgrady have negative intangibles?
:oldlol: Did you even the read the post that I made that you quoted? I stated how he had bad/negative intangibles in there.

He had negative intangibles because he wasn't a good teammate and he wasn't a good teammate because he would throw his teammates under the bus for all of his failures especially after he lost in the 1st round in 2002 and 2003. I don't recall him doing anything in 2001 when he lost but that was probably because it was his first year in Orlando.

Even if it was true that Tmac's teammates were awful which it probably was, you don't tell them that especially to the media. If you are a star player, you keep that to yourself because you don't want to create chemistry issues with the team, you don't want to destroy their confidence, and you don't want your teammates to not play as hard for you because you refuse to give them credit and you only blame them. This is what I mean by intangibles because you can't measure that by stats.

Tmac was just an awful leader and an awful teammate but at least you seem to understand that he was like that in Houston. He had some of that attitude issue in Orlando too especially in his last seasons with them specifically 2004.

I don't recall Wade ever throwing his teammates under the bus as a teammate or as a leader which is what could make the difference for me. I'm still unsure about this comparison, hence why I asked this comparison on ISH.

[PTB Fan]

Wade. He was better defensively in both off and on the ball and was extremely comparable in other areas. Overall, Wade for me.

[brantonli]

You also forgot to mention how McGrady was an awful teammate too. I honestly think McGrady is the worst teammate you could possibly have. He always blamed others for his failures especially when you talk about his 1st round exits. Every year he got hosed and eliminated in the first round, he would tell the media how his teammates suck and how he had nothing to do with the loss. There is a reason why every team he was apart of (when he was good) pretty much hates him. Toronto boos him every time he walks in the arena, same goes for Orlando and the same goes for Houston.

McGrady doesn't just have no intangibles, he has negative intangibles. He wasn't that bad during his peak in '01-'03 though but he did have some issues such as throwing his teammates under the bus. He also quit on his team although he quit on his team in 2004 which was outside of his peak years. McGrady was just really immature and practically a child and he has honestly never figured it out or changed because he is still like this today.

His weak work-ethic as you mentioned is the biggest reason why McGrady pretty much became incredibly overrated in Houston and pretty much done half way in his tenure with Houston. McGrady during his Magic years was very thin and very light and he was a freak of nature in terms of athleticism and explosion. In Houston, he became huge and practically fat due to the weak work-ethic and because of this he wasn't as explosive or as athletic anymore which robbed him from a lot of his abilities. He was very dependent on his athleticism. Even if you wanted to say he got big and fat in Houston because of he added muscle, it doesn't matter because McGrady didn't play in the post much anyways.

I have no idea what McGrady was like in Orlando, but in Houston he definitely wasn't blaming other people for playoff failures. He even said 'It's on me' if the Rockets lost to the Jazz, and guess what we did, and he blamed himself. The Rockets fans never should've booed T-Mac when he came back to Houston this season, he gave as much as he could given the team mates he had. If anything, it was the fans that kept blaming the role players that McGrady had aroudn him (Juwan, Rafer, Hayes, oh yeah offensive juggernauts!).

I'm not doubting his somewhat lack of work ethic though (JVG said as much, that McGrady was too gifted physically which held him back mentally) but he definitely isn't this cancer of a teammate you are painting him to be.

[jbryan1984]

I'll take D. Wade.

[TheNaturalWR]

Stop hating on T-Mac. Peak T-Mac is the best offensive player I ever saw.:pimp: He had GOAT potential. Nothing against Wade who's obviously had a much better career.

Are you a Heat fan? Did you even see Wade's 09 season? He was the BEST player in the league BY FAR. There was nothing he couldn't do. T-Mac had nothing on 09 Wade.

[derb2k2]

it's not even fair to ask these questions when it's regarding Wade or Leborn. The hate and bias for these two is incorrigible.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'll take peak '03 T-Mac over '09 Wade by a hair. Very very close, two of the best perimeter seasons ever. From the 90's until present, the only perimeter players who have had better seasons are MJ, Magic, '06-'08 Kobe and peak Lebron.

Wade was a monster in '09, played his best defense and actually shot the ball really well, which separates that season from his recent ones. His mid-range game was good and he was even a 3 point threat while still being close to his athletic peak, but pacing himself better and being much more under control and limiting the turnovers. But T-Mac was a much better shooter, he was quite a bit longer despite playing the same position, a better pure passer with superior vision, imo and he took care of the ball much better rarely turning the ball over. He was also a better off the ball player and a better rebounder. He didn't play his best defense that year, but he was the better scorer and offensive player, imo.

Prime is tougher, T-Mac's started around '01 or '02 and was done by '05. Wade's would probably start in '06, which was his second best season, and seemed to end last year. T-Mac's was wasted on bad teams, though Wade's prime was too outside of '06 and '11. And Wade had 2 prime years that were brought down by injuries in '07 and '08. The biggest problem I have with Wade is that aside from 2 1/2 seasons('06, '07 before the injury and '09) he's been a poor shooter.

Both had more potential defensively than they showed, T-Mac's defense declined each year from '01-'04, even though he could lock down multiple defenders when he wanted and make an impact as a help defender when he wanted. Van Gundy got him to start playing a bit more defense his first year in Houston, though. Wade also proved he had the ability to be a great defensive player in '09, but his effort wasn't there consistently in '10 or '11. Wade attacked the basket much more aggressively, which is an advantage for him, and in general was even quicker at his best. But he was far more turnover prone, and prime T-Mac attacked the basket enough, imo. Only in '04 did I think he settled.

As funny as it sounds, what might swing the prime vs prime comparison in T-Mac's favor is that his seasons were more complete and injuries didn't affect them as much as they did during Wade's prime. Injuries affected McGrady's career more, but that's irrelevant for a prime comparison. The reason I'm tempted to take Wade is the championship, and the amazing finals performance. But while I'm not sure about T-Mac duplicating the finals performance, I think that Miami at least contends with '01-'05 T-Mac replacing '06 Wade, especially '03. In that Eastern Conference, they'd have an almost guaranteed ECF appearance, and I'd bet that they still beat Detroit. Whether they beat Dallas is questionable.


Stats are per-36min

'05-'07 Wade:
25.7pts, 5.0reb, 6.6ast, 3.6tov, 58.0ts%, 28.1PER
'08-'12 Wade:
26.1pts, 5.2reb, 5.8ast, 3.1tov, 57.0ts%, 27.8PER

'00-'03 T-Mac:
25.8pts, 6.7reb, 4.7ast, 2.3tov, 54.0ts%, 26.7PER


Eat shit T-Mac fans :pimp:

:oldlol: at this guy. He's like a 15 year old John Hollinger. Nobody cares about PER and per 36 numbers.

Put '03 T-Mac in '06 or '07 and his numbers are even better, btw.

[Heavincent]

:oldlol: at this guy. He's like a 15 year old John Hollinger. Nobody cares about PER and per 36 numbers.

Put '03 T-Mac in '06 or '07 and his numbers are even better, btw.

Thank you :oldlol: Someone had to say it.

[RRR3]

:oldlol: at this guy. He's like a 15 year old John Hollinger. Nobody cares about PER and per 36 numbers.

Put '03 T-Mac in '06 or '07 and his numbers are even better, btw.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Shaqattack destroying John Hollinger, Jr.

[D-Wade316]

:oldlol: at this guy. He's like a 15 year old John Hollinger. Nobody cares about PER and per 36 numbers.

Put '03 T-Mac in '06 or '07 and his numbers are even better, btw.
LOL at you acting like more minutes don't affect stats.

Nope.

[ShaqAttack3234]

LOL at you acting like more minutes don't affect stats.

Nope.

:oldlol: at you acting like you can accurately predict what someone's stats would be in more/less minutes. They didn't play 36 mpg so I don't give a **** what their per 36 stats were.

Their minutes were fairly close anyway, and they played how many their teams needed them to/they were capable of.

Some players will play lower minutes because their teams are dominant and blowing out other teams, it's worth noting, but not adjusting for more/less minutes.

Have to wonder what '01-'05 T-Mac would've done from '06-'10.

[Ketchup]

Wade. Equal offensively and better defensively. Not to mention he had a knack of coming up big on both offensive and defensive plays in his best season. Can't say the same for T-Mac.

[LJJ]

It's close, but all his heroic playoff performances will surely push Tmac over the top.

[D-Wade316]

:oldlol: at you acting like you can accurately predict what someone's stats would be in more/less minutes. They didn't play 36 mpg so I don't give a **** what their per 36 stats were.
:facepalm You always need to adjust for stats. Pace and minutes greatly affect stats. Can't believe you can't understand simple logic. But of course you need to add context. We can only compare role players to role players, etc, not role players to superstars.

**** "Watch some games".

[ShaqAttack3234]

:facepalm You always need to adjust for stats. Pace and minutes greatly affect stats. Can't believe you can't understand simple logic. But of course you need to add context. We can only compare role players to role players, etc, not role players to superstars.

**** "Watch some games".

No, because there's no accurate way to adjust stats. You have to keep in mind context with stats, and you can guess for yourself what kind of role the player's teammates, the team's style/system ect. played in them,

A player's approach may change in more/less minutes. For example, look at Kobe in '11, he plays just 34 mpg, but still averages 25/5/5 or whatever. His minutes were much lower than the previous season, but his FGA per minute were higher, doesn't mean he'd continue shooting at that pace in more minutes, just that he had less minutes to get himself involved so he looked for his shot more early.

In '91, the Bulls coaching staff made an effort to limit Jordan's minutes, so Jordan also looked for his shot more early in games, rather than pacing himself more.

And some older players simply can't play a certain amount of minutes, much less maintain their play for a certain amount of minutes.

Stats only tell you so much anyway so it's not a big deal if stats are skewed a bit. They can be misleading for so many reasons. That's why you do have to watch the players play. Ball dominance skews stats, no way to adjust for that.

And you really can't adjust for pace either. It will affect every player differently, superstars will always be affected less especially when it comes to scoring. Though pace obviously will inflate stats at times, there's no accurate way to tell how much.

The mistake you're making is trying to sum up everything in stats.

[SilkkTheShocker]

RRRetard doesn't know anything about basketball.

[Doranku]

:roll: @ D-Wade316. Rough few weeks, huh? Been a ghost for the entire playoffs with Wade playing like a washed up sidekick, then he finally has a good game so you make an appearance only to get clowned on by ShaqAttack.

Brutal.

[D-Wade316]

:roll: @ D-Wade316. Rough few weeks, huh? Been a ghost for the entire playoffs with Wade playing like a washed up sidekick, then he finally has a good game so you make an appearance only to get clowned on by ShaqAttack.

Brutal.
I haven't been really been active since January, I think. My posts per day have gone down a bit since that time.

[Bigsmoke]

Wade

[StateOfMind12]

I have no idea what McGrady was like in Orlando, but in Houston he definitely wasn't blaming other people for playoff failures. He even said 'It's on me' if the Rockets lost to the Jazz, and guess what we did, and he blamed himself. The Rockets fans never should've booed T-Mac when he came back to Houston this season, he gave as much as he could given the team mates he had. If anything, it was the fans that kept blaming the role players that McGrady had aroudn him (Juwan, Rafer, Hayes, oh yeah offensive juggernauts!).

I'm not doubting his somewhat lack of work ethic though (JVG said as much, that McGrady was too gifted physically which held him back mentally) but he definitely isn't this cancer of a teammate you are painting him to be.
He didn't blame his teammates as much in Houston as he did in Orlando but at the same time he did give a lot of subtle remarks about how his team wasn't that good though. I remember there was an interview and he talked about how he never played with a dominant force like a Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal, yet he was playing with Yao at the time who was probably a top 5 big in the league. Yao was not as dominant as Shaq and Duncan obviously but he was not some scrub either and he was surely good enough for a 1st or 2nd option to get past the 1st round with.

He was still a poor teammate in Houston even though he didn't blame his teammates as much.

In 2009 when the Rockets got past the 1st round without him they were on their way to play the Lakers in the 2nd round and Tmac picked the Lakers to win the championship. Again, even if he is making an honest prediction/statement, he should keep his mouth shut especially to the media because that would hurt the chemistry of your team, it would hurt their confidence, and the teammates wouldn't want to play for you as hard.

He also pulled another dick move in Houston in that 2009 season. He purposely got micro-fracture knee surgery without letting anyone know on the Rockets organization so that the Rockets couldn't trade him in the trade deadline because the Rockets were making an attempt to trade him at the time. I believe they were trying to make a Tmac-VC swap with New Jersey or something like that but since he got the knee-surgery, the Rockets were unable to trade him. This is the ultimate reason why Rockets fans boo him, not for not being able to get past the 1st round.

Another dick/bad teammate move, I can think of was how purposely gave up on the Rockets in 2009 in a game vs. the Raptors. There are tons of articles on it but I'll just give you the video to show you what he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

I'm more than positive Bill Simmons discusses about all of this stuff in his book of basketball so you can check that out.

I don't have much of an issue with Tmac from like '01-'03 although he still had some issues but I don't like any version of Tmac after that and I surely wouldn't want any version of Tmac after those years on my team.

[chazzy]

:oldlol: at this guy. He's like a 15 year old John Hollinger.
:oldlol:

[D.J.]

Going by peak, McGrady. Better more versatile scorer, better shooter, capable of playing 3-4 positions, slightly better passer, better court vision, and smarter player. Wade's advantage on D isn't enough to put him above T-Mac at peak.

[donald_trump]

Going by peak, McGrady. Better more versatile scorer, better shooter, capable of playing 3-4 positions, slightly better passer, better court vision, and smarter player. Wade's advantage on D isn't enough to put him above T-Mac at peak.

better passer? better court vision? :oldlol:

more versatile scorer? what is this based on? the fact mcgrady had a 3 point shot? what about in the post?
wade was the better scorer. similar ppg on better %.

[D.J.]

better passer? better court vision? :oldlol:

more versatile scorer? what is this based on? the fact mcgrady had a 3 point shot? what about in the post?
wade was the better scorer. similar ppg on better %.


No McGrady was the better scorer. Scored more points, more ways, and was a better outside shooter. He was also more consistent and more likely to go off for 40 or 50.

[LBJMVP]

t-mac without a doubt.

t-mac ever scored 5 points in a playoff game when he was in his prime?

nope, in fact mcrgrady only scored in the teens two times ever in the playoffs.

better scorer, just as good passer, better rebounder... not a complete douchebag.

[RRR3]

t-mac without a doubt.

t-mac ever scored 5 points in a playoff game when he was in his prime?

nope, in fact mcrgrady only scored in the teens two times ever in the playoffs.

better scorer, just as good passer, better rebounder... not a complete douchebag.
T-Mac isn't a douchebag at all. Surprised he hasn't been canonized as a saint yet tbqh.
trololol jk

[PJR]

There isn't a single basketball executive or coach who would chose to build around peak/prime McGrady over Dwyane Wade at his prime/peak.

Wade is/was just a better and more impactful player on both ends.

[RRR3]

There isn't a single basketball executive or coach who would chose to build around peak/prime McGrady over Dwyane Wade at his prime/peak.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
T-Mac at his peak was insane. And he was only 23 too. The scary part is, if not for all the injuries who knows how good he could have become. I've never seen a more talented player (besides LeBron James) than T-Mac. He was born to play basketball. Obviously, if a GM was aware that T-Mac was born with mild scoliosis they might take Wade, but it's not like Wade has been healthy his whole career. Knowing how their careers played out, you'd take Wade for sure, but if you didn't know that, and this is 2003 T-Mac vs. 09 Wade, I imagine a lot of people would pick T-mac.

[konex]

T-Mac easily. Wade at his best was just getting more FTs than he does now. T-Mac could score from everywhere on the court, play PG and guard the other team's best wing

[D.J.]

PPG: McGrady(32.1) Wade(30.2)
RPG: McGrady(6.5) Wade(5.0)
APG: McGrady(5.5) Wade(7.5)
SPG: McGrady(1.7) Wade(2.2)
BPG: McGrady(0.8) Wade(1.3)
FG%: McGrady(45.7) Wade(49.1)
3PT%: McGrady(38.6) Wade(31.7)
FTA/game: McGrady(9.7) Wade(9.8)
TS%: McGrady(56.4) Wade(57.4)
eFG%: McGrady(50.5) Wade(51.6)
Offensive rating: McGrady(116) Wade(115)
Defensive rating: McGrady(104) Wade(105)
Win shares: McGrady(16.1) Wade(14.7)
Turnovers/game: McGrady(2.6) Wade(3.4)


The funny thing going by the numbers is the majority of the categories that favor McGrady, he has Wade beat clearly. The majority of the categories that favor Wade, he only has a slight advantage on McGrady.

[RRR3]

PPG: McGrady(32.1) Wade(30.2)
RPG: McGrady(6.5) Wade(5.0)
APG: McGrady(5.5) Wade(7.5)
SPG: McGrady(1.7) Wade(2.2)
BPG: McGrady(0.8) Wade(1.3)
FG%: McGrady(45.7) Wade(49.1)
3PT%: McGrady(38.6) Wade(31.7)
FTA/game: McGrady(9.7) Wade(9.8)
TS%: McGrady(56.4) Wade(57.4)
eFG%: McGrady(50.5) Wade(51.6)
Offensive rating: McGrady(116) Wade(115)
Defensive rating: McGrady(104) Wade(105)
Win shares: McGrady(16.1) Wade(14.7)
Turnovers/game: McGrady(2.6) Wade(3.4)


The funny thing going by the numbers is the majority of the categories that favor McGrady, he has Wade beat clearly. The majority of the categories that favor Wade, he only has a slight advantage on McGrady.
The lower the defensive rating, the Better. So McGrady's should be bolded (I don't use DRTG, just saying tho).

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

46% shooting while going 39% from 3PT. Peak T-Mac :eek: :applause:

[D.J.]

The lower the defensive rating, the Better. So McGrady's should be bolded (I don't use DRTG, just saying tho).


Just spotted it. Thanks. :cheers:

[Rasheed1]

Prime Tmac was a pretty nasty player...

I remember he left Toronto and went Orlando.... He would come to Philly and throw down that vicious tomahawk slam *yikes*

guy was pretty awesome for a minute there..

[Heavincent]

46% shooting while going 39% from 3PT. Peak T-Mac :eek: :applause:

Yeah, T-Mac had an absolutely killer stroke in his prime.

[RRR3]

46% shooting while going 39% from 3PT. Peak T-Mac :eek: :applause:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: I always loved when he would take the ball up court and just pull up for a jumper randomly and drill it:lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVgrRE0ViOs


He was incredible when he got going
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVY3boYcNAE

[D-Wade316]

t-mac without a doubt.

t-mac ever scored 5 points in a playoff game when he was in his prime?

nope, in fact mcrgrady only scored in the teens two times ever in the playoffs.

better scorer, just as good passer, better rebounder... not a complete douchebag.
has t-mac ever got past the first round?

has t-mac ever lead his to a ring in legendary fashion?

u salty :lol

[D.J.]

Yeah, T-Mac had an absolutely killer stroke in his prime.


Killer stroke and unblockable. 6'7"-6'8" with insane lift on his shot. And when he was on, ain't no stoppin him.

[D-Wade316]

The lower the defensive rating, the Better. So McGrady's should be bolded (I don't use DRTG, just saying tho).
Now your using Drtg? :oldlol: Drtg is great for teams but an epic fail for individual players. Offensive rating too.

[D.J.]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: I always loved when he would take the ball up court and just pull up for a jumper randomly and drill it:lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVgrRE0ViOs


I like this one better:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6shyLxDEEes

[D.J.]

Now your using Drtg? :oldlol:



I don't use DRTG, just saying tho


^^^

[RRR3]

has t-mac ever got past the first round?

has t-mac ever lead his to a ring in legendary fashion?

u salty :lol
Has T-Mac ever had a chance to go far in the playoffs? Think about it. He sure as hell didn't have a chance in Orlando, and that was his peak. I'm not sure what more you expected T-Mac to do playing with Jacques Vaughn, an ancient Darrell Armstrong, the corpse of Shawn Kemp, Gordan Giricek, Pat Garrity, and the legendary Andrew Declercq:rolleyes:
What happened to Wade when he had a supporting cast that wasn't so great? Oh yeah, first round exit.





Next.

[RRR3]

I like this one better:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6shyLxDEEes
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Was that Kobe or Robert Horry guarding him? Couldn't tell from picture quality...
It's a tragedy T-Mac's career turned out the way it did. He must have some of the worst luck for any NBA superstar. :cry: IMO 2002-03 T-Mac is the level he was capable of playing at every year if everything had gone right for him.:(

[Heavincent]

What happened to Wade when he had a supporting cast that wasn't so great? Oh yeah, first round exit.


Don't forget his epic 15 win season in 08 :lol

[Rasheed1]

I like Tmac ..... But I think Wade has him.. I remember back earlier in wade's career he would do some pretty awesome sh*t himself.

I remember he single handedly tore the 6ers apart... He was dunking the ball everytime down the court. Nobody could stop the guy.. These were all star game, slamdunk contest type dunks too..

It was soo ill that I actually liked it. Even as a sixer fan I had to just smile and say holy sh*t that man is incredible...

:eek:

[Legends66NBA7]

Played under different rules.

I'm assuming were talking about 2003 McGrady and 2009 Wade as peaks, yes ?

It's close... but considering number McGrady put up pre 04, I would have to go with him.

My assumption is that version of McGrady puts up better numbers post 04 (maybe Kobe or LeBron's 06 numbers, perhaps ? Depending if he was going to be an all out scorer or all-around player...).

Though, you can't really go wrong with either one.

[D-Wade316]

^^^
LOL You're now using stats in support for your argument. You don't even know which stats to use. :lol

For offensive and defensive ratings go to 82games. DRAPM, the best defensive metric, this (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/) site.

[D.J.]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Was that Kobe or Robert Horry guarding him? Couldn't tell from picture quality...


Fox.

[RRR3]

Don't forget his epic 15 win season in 08 :lol
I think he was injured though so I'll give him a pass. T-Mac had a 21 win season IIRC, and that was because he stopped trying that year (his last year on Magic he was frustrated because he had to carry the worst bunch of scrubs any superstar ever had to IMO). He still won the scoring title even without really giving a **** though.:bowdown: I wish T-Mac had worked harder sometimes, though, the game came so naturally too him that Jeff Van Gundy (IIRC) put it well, I think he said something like "T-mac is such a natural it's hard for him to see a reason to practice".

[D.J.]

LOL You're now using stats in support for your argument. You don't even know which stats to use. :lol

For offensive and defensive ratings go to 82games. DRAPM, the best defensive metric, this (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/) site.


Or you could ask a non-biased source who doesn't rely on stats all the time and actually saw both of them at their absolute peaks(*cough* me *cough*)

[D-Wade316]

Has T-Mac ever had a chance to go far in the playoffs? Think about it. He sure as hell didn't have a chance in Orlando, and that was his peak. I'm not sure what more you expected T-Mac to do playing with Jacques Vaughn, an ancient Darrell Armstrong, the corpse of Shawn Kemp, Gordan Giricek, Pat Garrity, and the legendary Andrew Declercq:rolleyes:
What happened to Wade when he had a supporting cast that wasn't so great? Oh yeah, first round exit.





Next.
2009 Playoffs - Atlanta Hawks(you could have this)
2010 Playoffs - Boston Celtics ECF Champ :biggums:

[Heavincent]

LOL You're now using stats in support for your argument. You don't even know which stats to use. :lol

For offensive and defensive ratings go to 82games. DRAPM, the best defensive metric, this (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/) site.

Or watch the games.

That's just silly though. Watching the games is for losers. All of the cool kids look at box scores and advanced metrics.

[D-Wade316]

Or you could ask a non-biased source who doesn't rely on stats all the time and actually saw both of them at their absolute peaks(*cough* me *cough*)
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

Wade. Equal offensively and better defensively. Not to mention he had a knack of coming up big on both offensive and defensive plays in his best season. Can't say the same for T-Mac.

The defense isn't that big of a gap, IMO.

Wade is better defensively, for sure.

I wonder what happens if they matchup though... Would have been fun to see.

[RRR3]

Fox.
Oh, yeah, forgot about him. Saw the big hair, knew it was one of those guys:lol . Those were Kobe's "Frobe" days.

Check out this video, guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-VOk3kSpI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLCB5425084670D7FD

T-Mac owns Kobe on that move. Then Kobe gets mad and blows by T-Mac for the dunk.:lol They both scored 38 points this game. Watch the other parts of the video for the whole game.:cheers:

[D.J.]

The defense isn't that big of a gap, IMO.

Wade is better.

I wonder what happens if they matchup though... Would have been fun to see.


It's not as big as some make it out to be, but Wade does have a clear advantage.

[D-Wade316]

Or watch the games.

That's just silly though. Watching the games is for losers. All of the cool kids look at box scores and advanced metrics.
Just like how your "watch the games" can come up to the conclusion that Kobe is a better defender than Wade?

[Legends66NBA7]

RRRetard doesn't know anything about basketball.

:oldlol: @ you talking about someone else not knowing anything about basketball.

[D.J.]

Just like how your "watch the games" can come up to the conclusion that Kobe is a better defender than Wade?


Wade is the better help defender. Prime Kobe was clearly a better man-to-man defender.

[Legends66NBA7]

It's not as big as some make it out to be, but Wade does have a clear advantage.

McGrady, when I watched him in Toronto, was a very dedicated defender.

I always thought he should have grabbed some All-Defensive teams in his younger days.

[D.J.]

McGrady, when I watched him in Toronto, was a very dedicated defender.

I always thought he should have grabbed some All-Defensive teams in his younger days.


Vince also played D in the early days. McGrady I think was top 10 in BPG one year while in Toronto.

[D-Wade316]

Wade is the better help defender. Prime Kobe was clearly a better man-to-man defender.
Nope.

[D.J.]

Nope.


Yes he was. Watch games instead of relying on stats or anything the 17 year olds here stay.

[RRR3]

I really wish I had watched the NBA seriously sooner. T-Mac's Magic years are already a distant memory for me in many ways :(. I remember watching him dominate on Christmas day one time, I think I watched the game where he had 62 points as well. I remember him on the Rockets better. This is the first year I've watched basketball a lot during the regular season. I used to just catch T-Mac when he was on national TV and during the playoffs. Sucks not having cable, but now I just stream games lol

[Heavincent]

Just like how your "watch the games" can come up to the conclusion that Kobe is a better defender than Wade?

http://i.minus.com/iBmpfCNORAZDf.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibsR6hnzlxbooT.gif

http://i.minus.com/iVnsZXa5tYVZf.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibeTIL0bLJ0xip.gif

http://i.minus.com/i83XfBpqnbfkG.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibszLkiFtJ2T22.gif

http://i.minus.com/iRBc2335DVc3i.gif

Meanwhile, Kobe was torching Wade on the other side of the court. They had to put Battier on him so they could hold him under 50 :oldlol:

[D.J.]

I really wish I had watched the NBA seriously sooner. T-Mac's Magic years are already a distant memory for me in many ways :(. I remember watching him dominate on Christmas day one time, I think I watched the game where he had 62 points as well. I remember him on the Rockets better. This is the first year I've watched basketball a lot during the regular season. I used to just catch T-Mac when he was on national TV and during the playoffs. Sucks not having cable, but now I just stream games lol


I've been watching the NBA since 1986. T-Mac was a very unique player. He was also one of the more consistent and smart players when at his best.

[RRR3]

I've been watching the NBA since 1986. T-Mac was a very unique player. He was also one of the more consistent and smart players when at his best.
Yeah, he was frustrating sometimes when he would fall in love with his 3PT shot though lol. Most superstar wing players seem to do that though lol.

[Legends66NBA7]

I really wish I had watched the NBA seriously sooner. T-Mac's Magic years are already a distant memory for me in many ways :(. I remember watching him dominate on Christmas day one time, I think I watched the game where he had 62 points as well. I remember him on the Rockets better. This is the first year I've watched basketball a lot during the regular season. I used to just catch T-Mac when he was on national TV and during the playoffs. Sucks not having cable, but now I just stream games lol

McGrady's mentaility in Toronto was always the best, IMO.

If he put his mind into it... he was locking up anybody for the minutes he was given.

[RRR3]

McGrady's mentaility in Toronto was always the best, IMO.

If he put his mind into it... he was locking up anybody for the minutes he was given.
Ability was never the question for T-Mac.

[D-Wade316]

...
You base an entire season for 1 game? Really?

[Legends66NBA7]

Ability was never the question for T-Mac.

Yeah, but he never did want to be behind Vince Carter.

He wanted to be the man (can't blame him)... and he found his success.

[LBJMVP]

has t-mac ever got past the first round?

has t-mac ever lead his to a ring in legendary fashion?

u salty :lol

legendary fashion?

the 2006 finals is one of the most highly critized series in NBA history.

:lol

how far did wade get before and after Shaq? :lol

[D-Wade316]

legendary fashion?

the 2006 finals is one of the most highly critized series in NBA history.

:lol

how far did wade get before and after Shaq? :lol
Before? Best player in the '04 Heat squad. Best player against the Pacers. Game winner in his first playoff game as a rookie.

Best player in the '05 playoffs for the Heat.

Shaq was indeed vital during those 2 years, but Wade was better 3/4 during that period. He was the missing piece that made us championship contenders.

[Duncan21formvp]

Wade

[StateOfMind12]

I'm not even sure if McGrady's best season was '03. It was the season where he put up the best scoring numbers but he was pretty much worse in every other aspect of the game such as defense, rebounding, etc.

I honestly find Tmac's '03 season very similar to Kobe's '07 season, not '06. Kobe in '07 put up the best offensive numbers of his career but he played his worst defense of his prime years that season and many players exploded against him such as Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas.

Mcgrady played very good defense in his early years in Toronto and in his first two years in Orlando but he pretty much stopped doing anything other than play offense from '03 and beyond.

I think McGrady's best season might have actually been 2001 or 2002.

[LBJMVP]

Before? Best player in the '04 Heat squad. Best player against the Pacers. Game winner in his first playoff game as a rookie.

Best player in the '05 playoffs for the Heat.

Shaq was indeed vital during those 2 years, but Wade was better 3/4 during that period. He was the missing piece that made us championship contenders.


so how far in the playoffs did wade get before that championship and after?

[D-Wade316]

so how far in the playoffs did wade get before that championship and after?
How far in the playoffs did MJ get before Pippen and Phil?

How far in the playoffs did Magic get after Kareem?

How far in the playoffs did Kobe get after Shaq and before Gasol?

Quit hating.

[LBJDW305]

so how far in the playoffs did wade get before that championship and after?

It's just hilarious how bad you hate wade and Lebron and the heat....yet your name is lbjmvp :roll: :roll:

Wade has a finals MVP. McGrady has never seen the second round of the playoffs /thread

[Odinn]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/wade.jpg
Wade - During that stretch;
37.2 ppg
5.9 rpg
10.4 apg
2.9 spg
1.4 bpg
.553 fg%
.419 3pt%
.865 ft%
41.85 eff

It will remain debatable when it comes to 2002-03 T-Mac vs. 2005-06 Kobe vs. 2008-09 Wade.

[LBJMVP]

It's just hilarious how bad you hate wade and Lebron and the heat....yet your name is lbjmvp :roll: :roll:

Wade has a finals MVP. McGrady has never seen the second round of the playoffs /thread


i still rather have mcgrady on my team than wade.

without one of the most dominant center in the history of the NBA on his team and the best player in the world on his team wade couldn't make it out of the first round but one time.


mcrgrady at his peak shits on wade.

i also don't want someone on my team that complains after every single call and whenever he doesn't get his way throws a tantrum on the court.

[PJR]

so how far in the playoffs did wade get before that championship and after?

This clown is still upset Wade stole LeBron from Cleveland, I see. :oldlol:

[LBJDW305]

i still rather have mcgrady on my team than wade.

without one of the most dominant center in the history of the NBA on his team and the best player in the world on his team wade couldn't make it out of the first round but one time.


mcrgrady at his peak shits on wade.

i also don't want someone on my team that complains after every single call and whenever he doesn't get his way throws a tantrum on the court.

Yea 35 year old shaq best player in the world :hammerhead: How stupid can you be?

[LBJMVP]

This clown is still upset Wade stole LeBron from Cleveland, I see. :oldlol:


could care less.... i happier with the team we have now.

[LBJDW305]

could care less.... i happier with the team we have now.

Happy not making the playoffs













:yaohappy: what a f@cking clown

[LBJMVP]

Yea 35 year old shaq best player in the world :hammerhead: How stupid can you be?


never said best player in the world

but he was still putting up 20/10 and a major defensive presence. there is a reason wade only got out of the postseason once without him. until lebron came that is.

[Fudge]

He didn't blame his teammates as much in Houston as he did in Orlando but at the same time he did give a lot of subtle remarks about how his team wasn't that good though. I remember there was an interview and he talked about how he never played with a dominant force like a Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal, yet he was playing with Yao at the time who was probably a top 5 big in the league. Yao was not as dominant as Shaq and Duncan obviously but he was not some scrub either and he was surely good enough for a 1st or 2nd option to get past the 1st round with.

He was still a poor teammate in Houston even though he didn't blame his teammates as much.

In 2009 when the Rockets got past the 1st round without him they were on their way to play the Lakers in the 2nd round and Tmac picked the Lakers to win the championship. Again, even if he is making an honest prediction/statement, he should keep his mouth shut especially to the media because that would hurt the chemistry of your team, it would hurt their confidence, and the teammates wouldn't want to play for you as hard.

He also pulled another dick move in Houston in that 2009 season. He purposely got micro-fracture knee surgery without letting anyone know on the Rockets organization so that the Rockets couldn't trade him in the trade deadline because the Rockets were making an attempt to trade him at the time. I believe they were trying to make a Tmac-VC swap with New Jersey or something like that but since he got the knee-surgery, the Rockets were unable to trade him. This is the ultimate reason why Rockets fans boo him, not for not being able to get past the 1st round.

Another dick/bad teammate move, I can think of was how purposely gave up on the Rockets in 2009 in a game vs. the Raptors. There are tons of articles on it but I'll just give you the video to show you what he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

I'm more than positive Bill Simmons discusses about all of this stuff in his book of basketball so you can check that out.

I don't have much of an issue with Tmac from like '01-'03 although he still had some issues but I don't like any version of Tmac after that and I surely wouldn't want any version of Tmac after those years on my team.
The bold part is the only thing thats true and the only thing that you can hold against him. That was immature and unneccessary on his part. The rest is either your opinion or not a valid fact.

[inclinerator]

http://images.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Will-Smith-Slaps-Reporter.gif

[LBJMVP]

Happy not making the playoffs











:yaohappy: what a f@cking clown


we'll be back next year as a 7 or 8 seed and take out the heat in the first round :coleman:

[TheNaturalWR]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/wade.jpg
Wade - During that stretch;
37.2 ppg
5.9 rpg
10.4 apg
2.9 spg
1.4 bpg
.553 fg%
.419 3pt%
.865 ft%
41.85 eff

It will remain debatable when it comes to 2002-03 T-Mac vs. 2005-06 Kobe vs. 2008-09 Wade.

Best player by far during that season and better than T-Mac's peak as well. His worst game was 21 and 10? Are you kidding me? :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[StateOfMind12]

Yea 35 year old shaq best player in the world :hammerhead: How stupid can you be?
He was referring to LeBron as the best player in the world and Shaq as the most dominant Center in NBA history.



How far in the playoffs did Magic get after Kareem?
.
He made it to the Finals in 1991, horrendous analogy.



Wade has a finals MVP. McGrady has never seen the second round of the playoffs /thread
I give McGrady plenty of crap for not being able to get past the 1st round but Wade didn't get past the 1st round during his peak either at least when he was playing with a supporting cast similar to McGrady during his peak.

I think if we are comparing careers or even primes, the answer is quite easily Wade but it's different because we are simply comparing peaks.

As much as I hate McGrady, if you were to pair up McGrady from '01-'03 with Yao from '05-'07, they would have probably made it to the Finals and maybe even win it all. McGrady never got anywhere with Yao in the Rockets because he was just not that good anymore.

McGrady was just an underachiever in the Yao-Tmac experiment but if he did play the way he was expected to play which was the Tmac from '01-'03 then they probably would have been a dynasty or the next Kobe-Shaq together like many said and thought they would be, or at least win one title.

[Legends66NBA7]

How far in the playoffs did Magic get after Kareem?

Should of omitted this example.

Went 63-19 the very next season (got upset by the Suns in the second round) and his final year in his prime 58-24 and went to the Finals... and took Jordan/Pippen Bulls beating them... while many key players were injured.

Yeah, he didn't win a title, but he got far enough and came 3 wins away from winning a title.

If that whole AIDS thing didn't happen to him... who knows, might have gotten another chance at a title.


He made it to the Finals in 1991, horrendous analogy.

Yeah, don't know what he was thinking there.

[iDefend5]

:oldlol: @ you talking about someone else not knowing anything about basketball.
You forget to switch to your RRR3 account or something?

[Heavincent]

You forget to switch to your RRR3 account or something?

You're one to talk StateOfMind. Do you seriously think we don't know it's you? :oldlol:

You've got like a trillion accounts on here. Who the hell does that? Loser :oldlol:

[iDefend5]

You're one to talk StateOfMind. Do you seriously think we don't know it's you? :oldlol:

You've got like a trillion accounts on here. Who the hell does that? Loser :oldlol:
Go ask someone to check the IPs if you think I'm him. It will detect it for sure.

[schism206]

You base an entire season for 1 game? Really?
Isn't that what everyone is doing for Wade tonight? How many best SG threads just popped up