Chris Palmer: "Lebron Is Better Than Kobe & Jordan"

[G-Funk]

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
In terms of strictly pure basketball ability give me LeBron over MJ.

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists, steals than both Kobe & MJ


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron per 36 min (career): 24.0 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.2 apg >> Kobe, MJ

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Jordan: 15 years, 28 triple doubles; LeBron: 9 years, 39 triple doubles

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will never catch Kobe or MJ's rings but may still end up a better basketball player.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Hate to break it to you, Jordan is not a god.

[Lebron23]

LeBron will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year. Kobe was 31 yrs.old when he won his Finals MVP while Jordan turned 28 yrs.old in 1991.

[Meticode]

I forgot who Chris Palmer is. :lol

[DuMa]

http://h10.abload.de/img/0070_pq3p.gif

[Meticode]

LeBron will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year. Kobe was 31 yrs.old when he won his Finals MVP while Jordan turned 28 yrs.old in 1991.
If you keep saying it, maybe it will come true. You've said this the last like 4 years. :oldlol:

[Whoah10115]

I used to be best friends with a kid named Chris Palmer, when I lived in Florida.

[francesco totti]

then kobe? yes
then jordan? keep dreaming

I advice you to watch games of jordan from 1990's, because statistics & scoreboards dont tell how much more dominating he was then the numbers suggest( which is still dominating)

[G-Funk]

LeBron will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year. Kobe was 31 yrs.old when he won his Finals MVP while Jordan turned 28 yrs.old in 1991.

So u think he will end up a better player than MJ?

[atljonesbro]

then kobe? yes
then jordan? keep dreaming

I advice you to watch games of jordan from 1990's, because statistics & scoreboards dont tell how much more dominating he was then the numbers suggest( which is still dominating)
Lol at you typing that as if Chris Palmer is reading this thread :applause:

[lilgodfather1]

Greater and better are two different things. LeBron's greater ship has sailed, unless he goes on to win 4 in a row. LeBron can still end up greater than Kobe realistically, but not MJ.

Better well he is better than both for sure.

[Lebron23]

So u think he will end up a better player than MJ?


Better All Around Player. LeBron will be a 3x NBA Finals MVP.

[IGOTGAME]

Chris Palmer should be fired for incompetence.

[Glide2keva]

than Kobe? yes
than Jordan? keep dreaming

I advise you to watch games of Jordan from [the] 1990's, because statistics & scoreboards don't tell how much more dominating he was than the numbers suggest (which is still dominating)Fixed

[tmacattack33]

Obviously is better than Kobe.


Better than Jordan? No, and probably won't get there unless he goes up a notch...maybe by improving his post game or jump shooting...but his jump shooting can't improve too much since he's already tried that.

[Glide2keva]

Greater and better are two different things. LeBron's greater ship has sailed, unless he goes on to win 4 in a row. LeBron can still end up greater than Kobe realistically, but not MJ.

Better well he is better than both for sure.
I wouldn't go that far.

[Haymaker]

Yeah, LeBron, the one who lacks a decent post-game. The one who scores mostly on transition and can't grow a pair to take the winning shot in a close game.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Better All Around Player. LeBron will be a 3x NBA Finals MVP.


Again with the hypothetical bullshit :rolleyes:


Jordan IS a 6 x NBA Finals MVP.

He has double the amount of FMVP than does Lebron and the hypothetical MVPS you give him

[IGOTGAME]

Better All Around Player. LeBron will be a 3x NBA Finals MVP.

I don't understand what the hell all around player even really signifies. Jordan does everything on the basketball and is a better player than Lebron. Thus, he is better overrall.

[Punpun]

You know KOBE is important when people feels the need to mention him alongside Jordan.

[pauk]

As an individual player yea.. Lebron sure is one of the most talented players ever... better than Kobe? LOL? Ofcourse..... But Jordan... thats more debatable...

[Inactive]

Chris Palmer needs to watch Jordan's big games, and take a look at his numbers. Lebron is not quite there.

[Horatio33]

Yeah, LeBron, the one who lacks a decent post-game. The one who scores mostly on transition and can't grow a pair to take the winning shot in a close game.

THIS.

[Lebron23]

Again with the hypothetical bullshit :rolleyes:


Jordan IS a 6 x NBA Finals MVP.

He has double the amount of FMVP than does Lebron and the hypothetical MVPS you give him


The Pacers has awaken a sleeping Giant. The Heat still beat the tallest team in the NBA without their 3rd best player while the Thunder owned and raped your Lakers in the 2nd round.

Kobe is still a ballhog.

[PianoMan]

THIS.
Lol Wade can do all three tho. So Kobe,Wade,Lebron,Jordan is debateable

[ganja0710]

Ofcourse..... But Jordan... thats more debatable...
No it's not. Only retarded dickriders like you would look at it as "debatable". :oldlol:

[Horatio33]

As an individual player yea.. Lebron sure is one of the most talented players ever... better than Kobe? LOL? Ofcourse..... But Jordan... thats more debatable...

Better than Jordan isn't a debate. LeBron has no killer instinct, no post game, shaky jumper.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
In terms of strictly pure basketball ability give me LeBron over MJ.

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists, steals than both Kobe & MJ


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron per 36 min (career): 24.0 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.2 apg >> Kobe, MJ

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Jordan: 15 years, 28 triple doubles; LeBron: 9 years, 39 triple doubles

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will never catch Kobe or MJ's rings but may still end up a better basketball player.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Hate to break it to you, Jordan is not a god.
The bold is simply not true. Jordan has better per 36 numbers in everything except rebounds (0.7 less) and assists (1.3 less). And they are comparable to Kobe's as well. Not to mention Jordan and Kobe have larger sample sizes, and years of decline grouped into those numbers.

The triple doubles don't matter, Magic Kidd and Big O all have more than Jordan too.

He could finish with more points, rebs, etc. Doesn't make him better.

And everything else is just pure opinion that can be argued the other way. I don't see his point....

[Lebron23]

THIS.


That's why LeBron is leading the 2012 NBA Playoffs in 4th quarter scoring. You need to watch more games. By the way I want the Spurs to advance in the NBA Finals, but the OKC Thunder will beat them in the Conference Finals. The Spurs have an easy road in the NBA Finals this year. They will be expose by a younger NBA Team.

[pauk]

Yeah, LeBron, the one who lacks a decent post-game. The one who scores mostly on transition and can't grow a pair to take the winning shot in a close game.

Yea, Kobe, the one who cant shut down all 5 positions and who cant dominate/start/play all 5 positions, lack of efficiency, court vision, passing ability, rebounding, unselfishness, athleticism, leadership, all-round game. The one who scores mostly simply because of shotjacking the ball and cant grow a pair of brains to pass the ball to an open teammate in a close game...

[Horatio33]

Lol Wade can do all three tho. So Kobe,Wade,Lebron,Jordan is debateable

Wade isnt near Jordan's level. Put up some stats. Jordan owns stats. Watch games. Jordan owns games.

[-23-]

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4894/1337998070314.gif

Chris Palmer = :biggums:

[Haymaker]

The Pacers has awaken a sleeping Giant. The Heat still beat the tallest team in the NBA without their 3rd best player while the Thunder owned and raped your Lakers in the 2nd round.

Kobe is still a ballhog.

LeBron went from Cleveland to Miami, always hiding in the eastern conference. He knows that he wouldn't stand much of a chance if he played in the West.

[Horatio33]

That's why LeBron is leading the 2012 NBA Playoffs in 4th quarter scoring. You need to watch more games. By the wat I want the Spurs to advance in the NBA Finals, but the OKC Thunder will beat them in the Conference Finals.

2011 finals was he leading that in 4th quarter scoring? When Miami needed him the most. When he could have won his first title?

[Lebron23]

2011 finals was he leading that in 4th quarter scoring? When Miami needed him the most. When he could have won his first title?


He's a much better player this year. The Spurs will be the Heat's easiest opponent if they meet in the NBA Finals. They defeated two of the weakest playoffs team in NBA History the Utah Jazz and a young Clippers team.

[PianoMan]

Wade isnt near Jordan's level. Put up some stats. Jordan owns stats. Watch games. Jordan owns games.
Your crazy, the same can be said for Wade. Wade isn't even getitng as much minutes plus coach Spo isn't really letting the offense flow through Wade.

[pauk]

Im still surprised at the mention of Kobe tho.... Jordan/Lebron is more debatable as individual players....

But Kobe? lol... no... Jordan & Lebron were on a completely different level...

There are maybe 20 players or more that were more talanted than Kobe...

Like...

Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille Oneal
Jerry West
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Prime Grant Hill
Elgin Baylor
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Julius Erving
George Gervin
Prime Bernard King
Rick Barry
and so on...

[Lebron23]

LeBron went from Cleveland to Miami, always hiding in the eastern conference. He knows that he wouldn't stand much of a chance if he played in the West.

It's not his fault that the Cavaliers drafted him in 2003.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Pacers has awaken a sleeping Giant. The Heat still beat the tallest team in the NBA without their 3rd best player while the Thunder owned and raped your Lakers in the 2nd round.

Kobe is still a ballhog.

Again, never did I mention Kobe. Just because somebody doesn't have something nice to say about Lebron DOESN'T automaticall make them a Kobe fan. Yes I understand that this concept is hard for you to grasp.

I like Kobe, I even like Lebron, but his stans & their imagination are the worst.

See un like you I don't attatch myself to another grown man, I don't go on the interent defending said man.

I debate & discuss thing that I actually see happen, like Mj winning 6 FMVPS, Kobe collecting 2 b2b FMVPS a few years ago. But yet people like you devalue these accomplishments because of what Lebron "will eventually someday do when he feels like it"

You act like Lebron is your mentally challenged little brother and somebody just called him retarted.

[Lebron23]

LeBron went from Cleveland to Miami, always hiding in the eastern conference. He knows that he wouldn't stand much of a chance if he played in the West.

It was not his fault that the Cavaliers drafted him in 2003.

[It's A VC3!!!]

This is the first time that I have ever discussed the comparison between LeBron and MJ so allow me to clarify.

LeBron has an all- around better offensive game then Jordan but will never be as skilled defensively or have the same killer instinct that Kobe and MJ have. Hopefully he can because I would love to see it but it's not there currently.

LeBron will also never likely get as many rings as MJ or Kobe either but I envision him retiring with 3 which will put him as a top 10 player of all time.

So there you have it.

[Mach_3]

There is literally not a single thing Lebron is better than Jordan at on a basketball court. :lol

[LakersReign]

Im still surprised at the mention of Kobe tho.... Jordan/Lebron is more debatable as individual players....

But Kobe? lol... no... Jordan & Lebron were on a completely different level...

There are maybe 20 players or more that were more talanted than Kobe...

Name 5


GO!!!!

[Horatio33]

He's a much better player this year. The Spurs will be the Heat's easiest opponent if they meet in the NBA Finals. They defeated two of the weakest playoffs team in NBA History the Utah Jazz and a young Clippers team.

Why were they the worst teams in playoff history. You don't know much history. You upset that i'm not drinking the LeBron koolaid?

[I<3NBA]

by including Michael Jordan's name, whoever this Chris Palmer is has certified he is an idiot.

[Horatio33]

Your crazy, the same can be said for Wade. Wade isn't even getitng as much minutes plus coach Spo isn't really letting the offense flow through Wade.

Wade never owned games like Jordan. Not many did. It's no shame.

[inclinerator]

Yeah, LeBron, the one who lacks a decent post-game. The one who scores mostly on transition and can't grow a pair to take the winning shot in a close game.
no way, jordan cannot be stopped in the finals the FINALS, meanwhile lebrn and kobe struggle to score and need teammates to score, jodan can shoulder that burden

[PianoMan]

This is the first time that I have ever discussed the comparison between LeBron and MJ so allow me to clarify.

LeBron has an all- around better offensive game then Jordan but will never be as skilled defensively or have the same killer instinct that Kobe and MJ have. Hopefully he can because I would love to see it but it's not there currently.

LeBron will also never likely get as many rings as MJ or Kobe either but I envision him retiring with 3 which will put him as a top 10 player of all time.

So there you have it.
Lol Wade is about to have 2 and possibly a second FMVP award, and he wouldn't even sniff top 20 in your books gtfo. If Wade wins 3 rings, that should put him in the top 10 category of all time

[Horatio33]

Lol Wade is about to have 2 and possibly a second FMVP award, and he wouldn't even sniff top 20 in your books gtfo. If Wade wins 3 rings, that should put him in the top 10 category of all time

About to win another finals MVP? OKC and Spurs chopped liver?

[Remix]

Again, never did I mention Kobe. Just because somebody doesn't have something nice to say about Lebron DOESN'T automaticall make them a Kobe fan. Yes I understand that this concept is hard for you to grasp.

I like Kobe, I even like Lebron, but his stans & their imagination are the worst.

See un like you I don't attatch myself to another grown man, I don't go on the interent defending said man.

I debate & discuss thing that I actually see happen, like Mj winning 6 FMVPS, Kobe collecting 2 b2b FMVPS a few years ago. But yet people like you devalue these accomplishments because of what Lebron "will eventually someday do when he feels like it"

You act like Lebron is your mentally challenged little brother and somebody just called him retarted.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[pauk]

Name 5


GO!!!!

Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille Oneal
Jerry West
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Prime Grant Hill
Elgin Baylor
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Julius Erving
George Gervin
Prime Bernard King
Rick Barry
and so on...

All these players were more productive & efficient than Mr Bryant....

Then you can debate who was better Kobe or prime T-Mac, Wade, Drexler, Havlicek and so on aswell.... you could say Kevin Durant will join this "better than Kobe" list to....

[PianoMan]

Wade never owned games like Jordan. Not many did. It's no shame.
Wtf you serious?

[Horatio33]

Wtf you serious?

Yes. Deadly.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Lol Wade is about to have 2 and possibly a second FMVP award, and he wouldn't even sniff top 20 in your books gtfo. If Wade wins 3 rings, that should put him in the top 10 category of all time

Your hypothetically speaking bro.

If Wade can win another Finals MVP and two more rings he's in the top 20. Possibly top 15. I look at the top 10 players of all time as untouchable right now. Only LeBron can get in it right now in this current league.

[G-Funk]

Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille Oneal
Jerry West
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Prime Grant Hill
Elgin Baylor
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Julius Erving
George Gervin
Prime Bernard King
Rick Barry
and so on...

All these players were more productive & efficient than Mr Bryant....

Then you can debate who was better Kobe or prime T-Mac, Wade, Drexler, Havlicek and so on aswell.... you could say Kevin Durant will join this "better than Kobe" list to....


:oldlol: @ your list, get real bro :facepalm

[BlueandGold]

The bold is simply not true. Jordan has better per 36 numbers in everything except rebounds (0.7 less) and assists (1.3 less). And they are comparable to Kobe's as well. Not to mention Jordan and Kobe have larger sample sizes, and years of decline grouped into those numbers.

The triple doubles don't matter, Magic Kidd and Big O all have more than Jordan too.

He could finish with more points, rebs, etc. Doesn't make him better.

And everything else is just pure opinion that can be argued the other way. I don't see his point....
Lol this

[Lebron23]

This thread sucks. The OP has an agendaaaaaaaaaa.

[G-Funk]

There is literally not a single thing Lebron is better than Jordan at on a basketball court. :lol
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :applause:

[G-Funk]

This thread sucks. The OP has an agendaaaaaaaaaa.

Yes I do, so what?

[Horatio33]

Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille Oneal
Jerry West
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Prime Grant Hill
Elgin Baylor
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Julius Erving
George Gervin
Prime Bernard King
Rick Barry
and so on...

All these players were more productive & efficient than Mr Bryant....

Then you can debate who was better Kobe or prime T-Mac, Wade, Drexler, Havlicek and so on aswell.... you could say Kevin Durant will join this "better than Kobe" list to....

Shaq had no outside game. Dr J couldn't consistantly make a jumper past 15 feet. Baylor had a shaky J. Barkley was a useless 3 point shooter. Karl Malone unclutch no 3 pointer. Gervin shoft, unclutch not the a great ballhandler. Wilt unclutch terrible free throw shooter. Magic poor outside shot.

I'm a Kobe 'hater' but Pauk you're arguement is terrible. Using someones foibles to make your player look better means your player isn't as good as you think!

[LakersReign]

:oldlol: @ your list, get real bro :facepalm

Ignore pauk. He went back and edited his post after I challenged him to name 5 players more talented than Kobe, which is what he said. He already knows he made himself look stupid, so that list is him trying to play it off:roll:

[pauk]

:oldlol: @ your list, get real bro :facepalm

So far you have not given me any results/facts to why thats a "lol list"... all those players were more PRODUCTIVE & EFFICIENT than Kobe..... they were better "BASKETBALL" players....

Kobe is only a scorer, dont be fooled by his PPG... the only reason he gets points is because he shotjacks / chucks like hell... he is extremly inefficient...

Im sure if i took 100 FG attempts a game i could lead the league in PPG aswell....

Thats all Kobe is... a "scoring", shotjacking, ballhoging, selfish "if i could be like Mike" singing primadonna...

[Nash]

I don't get why it surprises everybody. Lebron has always been regarded as the most talented player in the history of the game. Even his biggest hater Skip Bayless has said that.

But he still needs to do something with it for it even matter.

[Horatio33]

This thread sucks. The OP has an agendaaaaaaaaaa.

You never have an agenda do you?

[LakersReign]

Shaq had no outside game. Dr J couldn't consistantly make a jumper past 15 feet. Baylor had a shaky J. Barkley was a useless 3 point shooter. Karl Malone unclutch no 3 pointer. Gervin shoft, unclutch not the a great ballhandler. Wilt unclutch terrible free throw shooter. Magic poor outside shot.

I'm a Kobe 'hater' but Pauk you're arguement is terrible. Using someones foibles to make your player look better means your player isn't as good as you think!

He's just as pathetic as Dmavs. He tried to pull that same argument out his a** a few months ago. Funny how both of them want to try to say how much better than Kobe George "Iceman" Gervin was. But CONVENIENTLY forget to mention that Gervin made it to the Finals.:facepalm

[G-Funk]

So far you have not given me any results/facts to why thats a "lol list"... all those players were more PRODUCTIVE & EFFICIENT than Kobe..... they were better "BASKETBALL" players....

Kobe is only a scorer, dont be fooled by his PPG... the only reason he gets points is because he shotjacks / chucks like hell... he is extremly inefficient...

Im sure if i took 100 FG attempts a game i could lead the league in PPG aswell....

Thats all Kobe is... a "scoring", shotjacking, ballhoging, selfish "if i could be like Mike" singing primadonna...

Dude Im not gonna go through every player dignifying with a thoughtful response as to why Kobe is better than most. Make a more realistic list and ill give a thoughtful answer

[Lebron23]

You never have an agenda do you?


What's the point of discussing this thread? LeBron is having good playoffs run. Did you watch the Miami Heat's last 3 games? Unbelievable performance by LBJ especially in Game 4.

[RRR3]

Name 5


GO!!!!
More talented does not equal better, genius. :rolleyes: T-Mac in his day was more talented than Kobe. Doesn't mean they were better players (although I'd argue T-Mac was at least equal to Kobe when he was with the Magic), and they certainly haven't had better careers. LeBron is certainly more talented than Kobe, that's obvious, and then there are guys like Wilt, MJ, Shaq, Kevin Garnett, etc., etc. We're just talking talent here. :coleman:

[Horatio33]

What's the point of discussing this thread? LeBron is having good playoffs run. Did you watch the Miami Heat's last 3 games? Unbelievable performance by LBJ especially in Game 4.

I'm not disputing that, he has been fantastic. For 3 games. As a fan you should e able to see the faults, not just the things he is good at.

[RRR3]

Shaq had no outside game. Shaq didn't need one. :coleman:
Dr J couldn't consistantly make a jumper past 15 feet.
Baylor had a shaky J.
Barkley was a useless 3 point shooter. Not useless, it's not like never made a three. he was still efficient overall, just took too many threes.
Karl Malone unclutch no 3 pointer. Power Forwards don't need 3 pointers
Gervin shoft, unclutch not the a great ballhandler.
Wilt unclutch terrible free throw shooter. Wilt is more talented than Kobe. That's not debatable.
Magic poor outside shot. Got a lot better over his career didn't he? could be wrong, though.

I'm a Kobe 'hater' but Pauk you're arguement is terrible. Using someones foibles to make your player look better means your player isn't as good as you think!
:coleman:

[Lebron23]

He will never be as good as MJ. I am a huge fan of his game. I pray to the almighty creator that he will finally wins an NBA Finals MVP.

[Doranku]

More talented does not equal better, genius. :rolleyes: T-Mac in his day was more talented than Kobe, so was Vince Carter arguably. Doesn't mean they were better players (although I'd argue T-Mac was at least equal to Kobe when he was with the Magic), and they certainly haven't had better careers. LeBron is certainly more talented than Kobe, that's obvious, and then there are guys like Wilt, MJ, Shaq, Derrick Rose, Kevin Garnett, etc., etc. We're just talking talent here. :coleman:
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[RRR3]

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
I guess I'm basing too much off of athleticism lol. Scratch Rose, you're right. VC was kind of lazy and wasn't as good overall as Kobe, so take him off too. Bad list lol. I stand by my T-Mac statement however:pimp: Edited post :cheers:

[KingLeBronJames]

LeBron is better than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Deal with it, Jordan and Kobe fans.

[Mach_3]

I can def see the case for Lebron being more talented than kobe overall but imo Lebrons not in Kobes league wen it comes to putting the ball in the bucket and imo he was also a better overall defender than Lebron back in his early Laker days (like pre 04 Kobe)

[Horatio33]

:coleman:

Yes those players might not have needed the things I said, but the argument was the most talented. If you lack those skills that is lacking talent in those areas. As much as it hurts me to say this, Kobe is one of the most talented ever. He just chose not to use those talents properly sometimes!

[RRR3]

LeBron is better than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Deal with it, Jordan and Kobe fans.
:facepalm

[LakersReign]

There is literally not a single thing Lebron is better than Jordan at on a basketball court. :lol

Only people who actually watch games and know something about basketball can really understand that:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[RRR3]

Yes those players might not have needed the things I said, but the argument was the most talented. If you lack those skills that is lacking talent in those areas. As much as it hurts me to say this, Kobe is one of the most talented ever. He just chose not to use those talents properly sometimes!
Fair enough. All-around talent wise, I will say T-Mac and LeBron are the two best I've seen. Perhaps I'm jumping the gun with Wilt, but dude was ahead of his time in so many ways. Jordan is pretty similar to Kobe skill-set wise, but he played more under control. Hopefully I'll find the time maybe later this summer to watch old basketball games online so I can form better opinions on past players.

[RRR3]

There is literally not a single thing Lebron is better than Jordan at on a basketball court. :lol
Speed, passing? :confusedshrug:

[PianoMan]

Fair enough. All-around talent wise, I will say T-Mac and LeBron are the two best I've seen. Perhaps I'm jumping the gun with Wilt, but dude was ahead of his time in so many ways. Jordan is pretty similar to Kobe skill-set wise, but he played more under control. Hopefully I'll find the time maybe later this summer to watch old basketball games online so I can form better opinions on past players.
I agree T-Mac for sure was one if not the best talented players this NBA has seen. But damn those injuries. It hurt me to see T-Mac go down like that.

[Horatio33]

Fair enough. All-around talent wise, I will say T-Mac and LeBron are the two best I've seen. Perhaps I'm jumping the gun with Wilt, but dude was ahead of his time in so many ways. Jordan is pretty similar to Kobe skill-set wise, but he played more under control. Hopefully I'll find the time maybe later this summer to watch old basketball games online so I can form better opinions on past players.

So you make historical comparisons without watching the games?

:biggums:

[Mach_3]

Fair enough. All-around talent wise, I will say T-Mac and LeBron are the two best I've seen. Perhaps I'm jumping the gun with Wilt, but dude was ahead of his time in so many ways. Jordan is pretty similar to Kobe skill-set wise, but he played more under control. Hopefully I'll find the time maybe later this summer to watch old basketball games online so I can form better opinions on past players.


Honestly with guys like prime T-mac and prime Kobe those guys are so god damn good your really splitting hairs between whose more skilled

[Horatio33]

I agree T-Mac for sure was one if not the best talented players this NBA has seen. But damn those injuries. It hurt me to see T-Mac go down like that.

read this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Tracy-McGrady-freakish-talent-and-the-peril-o?urn=nba-330022

If he had Jordan or Kobe work ethic. Wow.

[RRR3]

So you make historical comparisons without watching the games?

:biggums:
:coleman: Not what I said, I haven't watched enough and I have a tendency to jump the gun in threads like these lol. I vaguely remember watching Jordan a few times on the Wizards for what it's worth, and obviously we've all seen his highlights on the Bulls. I haven't watched much of Wilt (because there isn't too much) but the dude was on the Harlem Globetrotters, and was a phenomenal athlete in many different sports from what I've read. It's probably harder to rank Wilt though, if you didn't grow up at the time. (inb4 jlauber)

[RRR3]

read this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Tracy-McGrady-freakish-talent-and-the-peril-o?urn=nba-330022

If he had Jordan or Kobe work ethic. Wow.
I've read it. He was born with mild scoliosis, so while work ethic would have helped his prime was destined to be fairly short in comparison to other superstar perimeter players.

[LakersFan626]

Greater and better are two different things. LeBron's greater ship has sailed, unless he goes on to win 4 in a row. LeBron can still end up greater than Kobe realistically, but not MJ.

Better well he is better than both for sure.

Until he has a good Finals series, no, much less a ring. Jordan never had a habit of disappearing in the 4th quarter or scored only 8 points in a finals game. Efficiency alone doesn't make you a better player.

[DonDadda59]

And they just jinxed Bron Bron again over at ESPN. :oldlol:

They tried the same exact bullshit last year before the finals trying to force the 'Lebron is better than Jordan' nonsense down people's throats (to be fair, it all started with Pippen). Then he went on to have one of, if not THE worst finals performances ever for a superstar player.

It's like Dejavu all over again :lol

[RRR3]

And they just jinxed Bron Bron again over at ESPN. :oldlol:

They tried the same exact bullshit last year before the finals trying to force the 'Lebron is better than Jordan' nonsense down people's throats (to be fair, it all started with Pippen). Then he went on to have one of, if not THE worst finals performances ever for a superstar player.

It's like Dejavu all over again :lol
ESPN=where LeBron is simultaneously the GOAT and the WOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[necya]

it seems we have the thread of the year, no ? :facepalm

[Dictator]

Lebron has no skill though. He plays purely off size and fundamentals.

Kobe has proven he's beter although stats don't show it. Jordan no doubt.:lol

[RRR3]

Lebron has no skill though. He plays purely off size and fundamentals.

Kobe has proven he's beter although stats don't show it. Jordan no doubt.:lol
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rZxKilLVYk4/Tzp5FHku2yI/AAAAAAAAAyU/g_k73uauybI/s1600/jaguars-fan-confused-wtf.gif

[PianoMan]

It's funny how people think this Chris Palmer guy is a nobody put is sittin here defending Jordan and Kobe. Should't they simply just pass by this thread if they don't agree with it? :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Scottie Pippen: 1991-1993 NBA Finals
20.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 7.4 apg, 45.6%FG 4.1 TO

Pau Gasol: 2009 & 2010 NBA Finals
18.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.1 apg, 52.7%FG, 2.3 bpg, 1.5 TO

Lebron James: 2007 & 2011 NBA Finals
19.5 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.8 apg, 41.7%FG, 4.7 TO

:bowdown:

[NumberSix]

There is literally not a single thing Lebron is better than Jordan at on a basketball court. :lol
:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

:lol @ using triple doubles as a reason for Lebron being better than Jordan.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's funny how people think this Chris Palmer guy is a nobody put is sittin here defending Jordan and Kobe. Should't they simply just pass by this thread if they don't agree with it? :facepalm
No?

I'm sure you've never commented on a topic that you didn't agree with on here. The whole point of this forum is to have a back-and-forth about different subjects.... Even ones as outlandish as this.

[PianoMan]

No?

I'm sure you've never commented on a topic that you didn't agree with on here. The whole point of this forum is to have a back-and-forth about different subjects.... Even ones as outlandish as this.
It's a waste of time tho if you think it's outlandish and not even comparable when trying to compare Lebron and Jordan, but with Kobe I can understand.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's a waste of time tho if you think it's outlandish and not even comparable when trying to compare Lebron and Jordan, but with Kobe I can understand.
The best time to comment on a thread is when you think the premise is ridiculous.

[Indian guy]

I would have gladly jumped into this discussion if we were comparing '09 and '10 LeBron to MJ. Heat-LeBron has no business being compared to MJ. With the exception of defense, there's nothing he truly excels at on the basketball court.

[Odinn]

At their best; Jordan > LeBron > Kobe.

[RJChPD]

I would have gladly jumped into this discussion if we were comparing '09 and '10 LeBron to MJ. Heat-LeBron has no business being compared to MJ. With the exception of defense, there's nothing he truly excels at on the basketball court.
:oldlol:

[PJR]

LeBron is certainly better than Kobrick EVER was. But no one is on the level of MJ da gawd.

[poido123]

What's the point of discussing this thread? LeBron is having good playoffs run. Did you watch the Miami Heat's last 3 games? Unbelievable performance by LBJ especially in Game 4.

He did that last year against the Bulls, then does a complete no show in the NBA finals? These performances don't mean **** until he wins a championship. I'd go as far as to say that he needs to perform in the NBA finals as well, to eradicate that dismal effort last year. First of all, the heat will need to get past likely Boston to get there first.

I'm still amused by ISH posters who try to put Kobe or Lebron up to MJ's level. Anyone who watched Jordan's career would know that it will take one very special player to do what MJ did, as talented as Kobe/Lebron are, they are not near that level.

[DonDadda59]

I would have gladly jumped into this discussion if we were comparing '09 and '10 LeBron to MJ. Heat-LeBron has no business being compared to MJ. With the exception of defense, there's nothing he truly excels at on the basketball court.

While I vehemently disagree with the notion of Bron being anywhere within sniffing distance of Jordan's league, I have to just as ardently disagree with anyone who says Lebron isn't skilled or he doesn't excel at anything on a basketball court. Lebron is a basketball prodigy who has blossomed into a genius. One of the most gifted physical specimens to ever grace a hardwood (Shaq being possibly the only equal in that regard). Guy has the size and strength of a Karl Malone, the athleticism of Dominique Wilkins, and the passing acumen of a Larry Bird. Plus every year he's added a new wrinkle to his game it seems- his jumper has improved dramatically from the time he first entered the league, his defense went from passable to all world, and he's slowly but surely improving his post game.

What he lacks is mental fortitude. He's more concerned about his public image and having fun with his buddies than he is about destroying his competition like Jordan and even Kobe do. Mental midgetry is his downfall.

[cteach111]

Anyone who watched Jordan's career would know that it will take one very special player to do what MJ did, as talented as Kobe/Lebron are, they are not near that level.

It's called nostalgia man. You've been taking heavy dosages and coincidentally, are very delusional.

[elinss86]

until lebron stops being scared sh!tless to take over in the 4th consistently, he'll never be better than either

[Lebron23]

until lebron stops being scared sh!tless to take over in the 4th consistently, he'll never be better than either


LeBron is currently leading the NBA in 4th quarter scoring. You stupid troll.

[hawke812]

Better All Around Player. LeBron will be a 3x NBA Finals MVP.

Lebron will be...

Lebron will be...

Lebron will be...

Lebron will be...

LEBRON WILL BE...

LEBRON WILL BE...

LEEEBRRRRONN WILLL BEEEEEEEEEEEE.....AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH:cry:

Every year the same crap. That is delusional fans for ya:rolleyes:

[cteach111]

Lebron is a basketball prodigy who has blossomed into a genius. One of the most gifted physical specimens to ever grace a hardwood (Shaq being possibly the only equal in that regard). Guy has the size and strength of a Karl Malone, the athleticism of Dominique Wilkins, and the passing acumen of a Larry Bird. Plus every year he's added a new wrinkle to his game it seems- his jumper has improved dramatically from the time he first entered the league, his defense went from passable to all world, and he's slowly but surely improving his post game.

So, how could a player like this not be in sniffing distance of Jordan. Keep in mind, I am talking about his tangible talents as a basketball player.

By your post, the only thing Jordan has on Lebron is mental fortitude. There's not much separating them as players.

[hawke812]

LeBron is currently leading the NBA in 4th quarter scoring. You stupid troll.

Lebron...4th qtr...leading...scoring....

Those words do not belong in the same sentence:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mach_3]

Speed, passing? :confusedshrug:
Jordan was faster end to end, was quicker laterally, and had a quicker first step. Brons fast but he aint jordan fast

[Lebron23]

G-Funk is Chris Palmero.

[DonDadda59]

So, how could a player like this not be in sniffing distance of Jordan. Keep in mind, I am talking about his tangible talents as a basketball player.

By your post, the only thing Jordan has on Lebron is mental fortitude. There's not much separating them as players.

And that's what seperates the all time greats and the also rans. Sometimes when I watch Lebron on the court, knowing that the guy can drain shots from damn near half court as heat checks, and then he hides in the corner on last second plays and mentally checks out on the biggest stage... tells me that the mental aspect of the game is just as important as talent/skill level.

If he had the mentality of a Jordan- the will to dominate and play to the best of his ability, he could possibly be sitting on 2, maybe more championships right now. He was the difference between MIA winning and losing last year, and his mental weakness manifested itself in an embarrassing finals loss.

[poido123]

LeBron is currently leading the NBA in 4th quarter scoring. You stupid troll.

Angry much? Lebron has shown in the past to shy away from the moment. He did that in the regular season this year, and he did that last year in the NBA finals. His disappearing act in the NBA finals last year will be hard to erase from his legacy. That was atrocious. Just because he leads the league in 4th quarter scoring, does not tell the whole story. He isn't what i would call a clutch player, he hasnt built any reputation for that :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

LeBron is certainly better than Kobrick EVER was. But no one is on the level of MJ da gawd.

Scottie Pippen: 1991-1993 NBA Finals
20.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 7.4 apg, 45.6%FG 4.1 TO

Pau Gasol: 2009 & 2010 NBA Finals
18.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.1 apg, 52.7%FG, 2.3 bpg, 1.5 TO

Lebron James: 2007 & 2011 NBA Finals
19.5 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.8 apg, 41.7%FG, 4.7 TO

:bowdown:

[bagelred]

http://i45.tinypic.com/n566s.jpg

[PianoMan]

http://i45.tinypic.com/n566s.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[cteach111]

And that's what seperates the all time greats and the also rans. Sometimes when I watch Lebron on the court, knowing that the guy can drain shots from damn near half court as heat checks, and then he hides in the corner on last second plays and mentally checks out on the biggest stage... tells me that the mental aspect of the game is just as important as talent/skill level.

If he had the mentality of a Jordan- the will to dominate and play to the best of his ability, he could possibly be sitting on 2, maybe more championships right now. He was the difference between MIA winning and losing last year, and his mental weakness manifested itself in an embarrassing finals loss.

So, basically Lebron is as good as Jordan was from an eyeball standpoint. That's all that needs to be said. :applause:

Mental fortitude is highly subjective, but everyone can see tangible talent on the court.

[cteach111]

Angry much? Lebron has shown in the past to shy away from the moment. He did that in the regular season this year, and he did that last year in the NBA finals. His disappearing act in the NBA finals last year will be hard to erase from his legacy. That was atrocious. Just because he leads the league in 4th quarter scoring, does not tell the whole story. He isn't what i would call a clutch player, he hasnt built any reputation for that :confusedshrug:

Lebron is leading the playoffs in 4th quarter scoring.

[DonDadda59]

So, basically Lebron is as good as Jordan was from an eyeball standpoint. That's all that needs to be said. :applause:

Mental fortitude is highly subjective, but everyone can see tangible talent on the court.

They can also see a guy hiding in the corner while Mario Chalmers takes game-tying final second shots, and they can also see a guy play like a D-league scrub in the 4th quarter of finals games :applause:

Even D-Wade knows this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXNsKw7a3w

[poido123]

It's called nostalgia man. You've been taking heavy dosages and coincidentally, are very delusional.

Very clear. I guess you can't convince someone with an agenda, what I saw with my own eyes to be true, is not actually fact. Everything is interpretation, its just that more people will agree with my opinion than not. So you might want to call me nostalgic etc etc, but consensus opinion would suggest that Jordan is on another level to Kobe and Lebron.

Id suspect you making a comment like this, would tell me that you were too young to have seen Jordan's career, and suggests that you base your claims on watching youtube clips or listening to other Jordan haters, but its not uncommon for people's judgement on ISH to be clouded by the team that they follow, or the player that they idolise.

[poido123]

They can also see a guy hiding in the corner while Mario Chalmers takes game-tying final second shots, and they can also see a guy play like a D-league scrub in the 4th quarter of finals games :applause:

Even D-Wade knows this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXNsKw7a3w

Where have you been? :applause: The best poster on here IMO, I suspect the Lebron fans to scurry off now. They will be put in their place, starting with a brutal blow in the form of this post :bowdown:

[cteach111]

Where have you been? :applause: The best poster on here IMO, I suspect the Lebron fans to scurry off now. They will be put in their place, starting with a brutal blow in the form of this post :bowdown:

that guy is basically saying Lebron = Jordan from a talent standpoint. So I'm guessing u think the same thing?

According to him, the only thing Jordan's got on Lebron is "mental fortitude". That's fine with me, since Lebron will have plenty of opportunities to light it up in the 4th quarters of games in his career.

[Quizno]

lebron isn't even close to touching kobe and he sure as hell isn't touching MJ :oldlol:

[cteach111]

lebron isn't even close to touching kobe and he sure as hell isn't touching MJ :oldlol:

how could he not be close when he matches Jordan from a talent standpoint?

[RazorBaLade]

wow pauk.......... lost all respect i was slowly starting to aquire for you as a poster..... that didnt last long.....

[poido123]

that guy is basically saying Lebron = Jordan from a talent standpoint. So I'm guessing u think the same thing?

According to him, the only thing Jordan's got on Lebron is "mental fortitude". That's fine with me, since Lebron will have plenty of opportunities to light it up in the 4th quarters of games in his career.

Jordan has better fundamentals, better footwork, expert in the use of the pivot foot and pump fake, something Lebron is yet to even begin to do well. Fundamentals are not using brute force and size to get to the basket, which is something Lebron can do and does do well. Off the ball defense, Jordan knows how to keep with his man, he knows spacing well to anticipate a steal, when people refer to Lebron being a good defender, they mainly look at his come from behind blocks, if you assessed Lebron on his ability to stay with his man, and anticipate steals, Jordan leaves him for dead. Jordan was also a better man defender, plus he could do the come from behind blocks just as much as Lebron can.

I dont think its worth debating killer instinct or mental toughness, its pretty
universal that Jordan was probably the greatest in that aspect. And fact is Jordan also was a better scorer, had more post moves and a bigger arsenal to dominate his opponents.

[cteach111]

Jordan has better fundamentals, better footwork, expert in the use of the pivot foot and pump fake, something Lebron is yet to even begin to do well. Fundamentals are not using brute force and size to get to the basket, which is something Lebron can do and does do well. Off the ball defense, Jordan knows how to keep with his man, he knows spacing well to anticipate a steal, when people refer to Lebron being a good defender, they mainly look at his come from behind blocks, if you assessed Lebron on his ability to stay with his man, and anticipate steals, Jordan leaves him for dead. Jordan was also a better man defender, plus he could do the come from behind blocks just as much as Lebron can.

I dont think its worth debating killer instinct or mental toughness, its pretty
universal that Jordan was probably the greatest in that aspect.

Maybe that's what you think, but not all the Jordan stans think that way. Lebron's got an argument in the talent department.

He may be the greatest talent the game has ever known.

[poido123]

Maybe that's what you think, but not all the Jordan stans think that way. Lebron's got an argument in the talent department.

He may be the greatest talent the game has ever known.

I made my points pretty clear. I dont see how you could make a case for your man Lebron, oh wait you haven't...Instead you just throw out a cliche the he may be the greatest talent ever known :rolleyes:

I think what alot of younger posters here are forgetting, is that Jordan didn't build this reputation on the back of Wheaties ads, and Haynes advertisements. For every dollar Jordan made, he earnt by what he did on the basketball court.

Unfortunately, alot of future fans of the game will probably form their opinion based on him being a spectacular dunker, or he was in movies or advertisements, or that he was a terrible GM with the bobcats, to form their own agenda and discredit the fact he was an out of this world player. There wasn't a player in the game who had the fans captivated before a game had started, liek Jordan did. It was like, what will he do next? will he go off for a 60 point game in the playoffs, will he overcome the bustling defense of the Pistons or Knicks? Each time he was raised a question, he answered it and crushed the doubters.

Its sad when there are posters on here that won't ever appreciate what i did growing up a Jordan fan, I guess he will get lost in the books of history or the clips of Youtube. Where anyone who mentioned his name will be like, damn that guy was good in his day, but wasnt he just a walking billboard and bad GM? wasnt he just all flash and no substance? Who knows..

[hitmanyr2k]

Maybe that's what you think, but not all the Jordan stans think that way. Lebron's got an argument in the talent department.

He may be the greatest talent the game has ever known.

Talent only takes you so far...especially physical talent. If you can't hone that talent and combine it with fundamentals and skill it's not surprising to see a player go from looking like a G.O.A.T type player in the ECF to a borderline all-star level player in the Finals like Lebron did last year. When he's not able to run through defenders and get easy buckets in transition I want to see what he'll come up with then. We all know that time is coming. Last year Lebron was befuddled and had nothing left in his arsenal when those fast break buckets dried up and his jumper got shaky. This year I've seen no real improvement in his game (his post game is still garbage) so if one of the elite teams from the West close that lane down and slows the game down to a crawl I wouldn't be surprised to see the same shit from Lebron this year.

[RazorBaLade]

Maybe that's what you think, but not all the Jordan stans think that way. Lebron's got an argument in the talent department.

He may be the greatest talent the game has ever known.

And there are probably countless talents born raised and died in barns in Wyoming or on a farm in Iceland that are better than both of them put together. What does that matter? There have probably been people that could have figured out everything einstein did, they may be smarter or more talented, but doing it is what counts... Lebron plays the game to win and he isn't going to win that many times if at all while also showing his talents.

[ihoopallday]

Chris Palmer is just trolling. People at ESPN will do anything for ratings. :facepalm

[cteach111]

Chris Palmer is just trolling. People at ESPN will do anything for ratings. :facepalm

it ain't trolling when there's some truth to what he says.

[cteach111]

he isn't going to win that many times if at all while also showing his talents.

why wouldn't he win while showcasing his talents?

[RazorBaLade]

why wouldn't he win while showcasing his talents?

I made sure to include that you have to win a bunch of times while showcasing your talents so the horry 7 rings people won't get in here.

If he ever wins like 4 or 5 rings I don't think it'll be all while being the num 1 option. It'd just be hilarious to see him have a bit of a kobe parallel career and kons bron fans just argue which one is 8th and which one is 9th on the all time list forever, I think thats how its going to go down... And for that I see bron with 1 or 2 titles as main guy and 1 or 2 titles as more of a pass first guy. So he wont be this 30 7 7 guy while winning championship(s).

I think the whole talent thing is dumb anyways, i mean, if kobe said *** winning I'm going to the bobcats and just put up 35 6 5 every year for 5 years.....Never wins... Do we say his better stats than jordan mean something?

[jrong]

This is why people hate LeBron. And ESPN.

I'm also fascinated that he included career per 36 as an argument. Wonder what he'd say if somebody pointed out to him how Dwyane Wade compares to LeBron James in career per 36. Might just have to tweet something tonight.

[cteach111]

I think the whole talent thing is dumb anyways, i mean, if kobe said *** winning I'm going to the bobcats and just put up 35 6 5 every year for 5 years.....Never wins... Do we say his better stats than jordan mean something?

That's not talent you are talking about. That's the role a player plays on the team.

On Talent:

Lebron = Jordan >= Shaq

[Dictator]

Lebron fans:facepalm

Lebron:
27 7 7
31 7 7
27 7 6
30 8 7
28 8 7
30 7 9
27 8 7
27 8 6

Kobe:
23 6 5
29 6 5
25 6 6
30 7 6
24 6 5
28 7 6
35 5 5
32 6 5
28 6 5
27 5 5
27 5 5
25 5 5
28 5 5

Jordan:
28 7 6
37 5 5
35 6 6
33 8 8
34 7 6
32 6 6
30 6 6
33 7 6
30 5 7
30 6 4
29 6 4
29 6 4
23 6 5
20 6 4

[RazorBaLade]

That's not talent you are talking about. That's the role a player plays on the team.

On Talent:

Lebron = Jordan >= Shaq

What I'm saying is that opportunity and such dictates how much talent we get to see. Think about this

Do you feel the same way about lebrons talents if instead of the cleveland years, he was traded right away from rookie season to the the Lakers? Kobe pau lebron. He'd shoot like 15 times a game. You think he'd be looked at the same way? But if he goes and plays on cle where he has full control and does w/e he wants, he looks good.

I don't think its just the role he plays, but the situation matters too and sometimes you can't control that. If kobes sole desire was to play for cleveland for 7 years and not win a championship he could do pretty damn well. And lebron on the lakers would have won some championships possibly maybe. I have trouble believing you or anyone can say no wait, look at their roles! You'd just look at the stats and video, determine talents and move on. Unfair.

[SpecialQue]

0 rings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.

[chazzy]

Peak Jordan>Peak Lebron>Peak Kobe>Current Lebron

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Guy had one of the biggest meltdowns in Finals history yet he's being compared to Jordan, who by comparison is the greatest Finals performer ever. Makes sense. :oldlol:

Lebron is an amazing talent but his mental fortitude, or lack there of, keeps him from being on the tier of Jordan/KAJ/Magic/Shaq, etc. Once again (just like I said last year), lets see him win something before we start prematurely crowning him.

[cteach111]

Peak Jordan>Peak Lebron>Peak Kobe>Current Lebron
Peak Jordan = Peak LeBron > Peak Kobe

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Peak Jordan = Peak LeBron > Peak Kobe

Uh, no. '91-93 Jordan would snuff any version of Bronzy.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Peak Jordan = Peak LeBron > Peak Kobe
Peak Lebron got outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh in the NBA Finals. Don't put him > than the all-time greats please. You're just embarrassing yourself.

[cteach111]

Peak Lebron got outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh in the NBA Finals. Don't put him > than the all-time greats please. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Peak Lebron was '09 and '10 Lebron. Know ur Bron History :rolleyes:

[OldSchoolBBall]

These people are hysterical. '90-'93 Jordan would OWN Lebron and make him cry. Please... :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Peak Lebron was '09 and '10 Lebron. Know ur Bron History :rolleyes:
Cool story bro. Just remember that Chris Bosh's and Jason Terry's Finals ppg > Lebron's. :facepalm

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron should be compared with Kobe, not Jordan. Jordan is a step above both of them.

Lebron's peak and Kobe's peak are interchangeable in my opinion and you could argue either way. Some days I believe LeBron's peak was better than Kobe's and some days I believe that Kobe's peak was better than LeBron's.

Lebron has no chance of ever becoming better or greater than Jordan though because of how many failures and meltdowns he already has.

The GOAT candidacy ship for LeBron has already sailed.

[cteach111]

Cool story bro. Just remember that Chris Bosh's and Jason Terry's Finals ppg > Lebron's. :facepalm

sure but that's not Peak Lebron. So like I was saying Peak LBJ = Peak MJ

[Deuce Bigalow]

sure but that's not Peak Lebron. So like I was saying Peak LBJ = Peak MJ
Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Kobe, Bird, Hakeem ect would not get outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh in the NBA Finals during their prime.
Stop embarrassing yourself.

[StateOfMind12]

6 games has nothing to do with why LeBron isn't close or better than Jordan. LeBron isn't close or better than Jordan because Jordan was just a much better player. Jordan's mental approach to the game, his skillset, his abilities, even his production was much better than LeBron's.

Jordan was like LeBron and Kobe combined into one. Jordan has LeBron's consistency, LeBron's physical abilities, LeBron's shot selection/IQ, Kobe's skillset, and Kobe's mentality.

[christian1923]

LeBron should be compared with Kobe, not Jordan. Jordan is a step above both of them.

Lebron's peak and Kobe's peak are interchangeable in my opinion and you could argue either way. Some days I believe LeBron's peak was better than Kobe's and some days I believe that Kobe's peak was better than LeBron's.

Lebron has no chance of ever becoming better or greater than Jordan though because of how many failures and meltdowns he already has.

The GOAT candidacy ship for LeBron has already sailed.

No he should be compared with the Malones, Barkleys, Mcgradys, and the other ringless guys of the world.

There is no arguement for Lebron > Kobe... 5 rings cant be touched by lebron at this point. And you cant talk about teammates because he had a perfect oppurtunity last year with a Superstar and All star on his side and he completly blew it.

Why do you lebron fans do this to yourself every May.. Lets just wait till the playoffs are over before you guys get hype.

[jrong]

Tweeted Palmer my response to his career per 36 LJ>MJ argument, re: Wade. Since he went there to prop up James, it's a fair-game comparative criterion. Waiting to see if he has the balls to reply.

For reference: James-- 24.9 pts, 6.5 rebs, 6.2 asts; Wade: 24.3 pts, 4.9 rebs, 6.0 asts

And Wade's career FG% is 48.6, and James's is 48.3. And Wade has a ring. And a Finals scoring average of 30.6 ppg. And if anyone ever tried to compare him to the GOAT, I'd be the first to systematically dismantle them as only I can. That's the difference between Wade fans and James fans (including his media acolytes). Wade fans want him to get his due respect but, we're not detached from reality.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Tweeted Palmer my response to his career per 36 LJ>MJ argument, re: Wade. Since he went there to prop up James, it's a fair game comparative criterion. Waiting to see if he has the balls to reply.

For reference: James-- 24.9 pts, 6.5 rebs, 6.2 asts; Wade: 24.3 pts, 4.9 rebs, 6.0 asts

And Wade's career FG% is 48.6, and James's is 48.3. And Wade has a ring. And a Finals scoring average of 30.6 ppg. And if anyone ever tried to compare him to the GOAT, I'd be the first to systematically dismantle them as only I can. That's the difference between Wade fans and James fans (including his media acolytes). Wade fans want him to get his due respect but, we're not detached from reality.
D-Wade has a better case for GOAT than Lebron.
Ring and Finals MVP, a playoff run comparable to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Kobe, and the other greats
Meanwhile LeRingless gets outscored by a bench player and his team's 3rd option in the Finals

[cteach111]

D-Wade has a better case for GOAT than Lebron.
Ring and Finals MVP, a playoff run comparable to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Kobe, and the other greats
Meanwhile LeRingless gets outscored by a bench player and his team's 3rd option in the Finals

its sad that you hang on to 1 little series as if it defines his entire career

[Scholar]

Who is Chris Palmer and why is PauK letting the guy guzzle on LeBron James' ******** so hard?

[ILLsmak]

Peak Lebron was '09 and '10 Lebron. Know ur Bron History :rolleyes:

lol, Lebron had a 2 year peak and he didn't win a ring? Didn't even get to the Finals...

I'd like to think a player's peak should be longer than that, and I'd also like to think LeBron is better now than he was, and will probably hit is peak around 28.

-Smak

[Deuce Bigalow]

its sad that you hang on to 1 little series as if it defines his entire career
The dude said it was going to be easy. And not 1, not 2,...not 7 championships.
:confusedshrug:

[chips93]

This palmer dude is definitely retarded, but you guys bringing rings, killer instinct. etc., into the debate are missing the point

[RRR3]

This thread is still going? :rolleyes:
:sleeping
:facepalm

[cteach111]

This palmer dude is definitely retarded, but you guys bringing rings, killer instinct. etc., into the debate are missing the point

please go on

[chips93]

please go on

well, palmer says


In terms of strictly pure basketball ability give me LeBron over MJ.

this has nothing to do with rings, killer intinct, heart etc.

it just means lebron is the best combination of skill and physical attriutes, nothing to do with winning titles



this palmer dude is definitely trolling, or just an idiot, i mean, this is just typical cherry picking bull shit



LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists, steals than both Kobe & MJ


LeBron per 36 min (career): 24.0 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.2 apg >> Kobe, MJ

everybody knows that lebron will have an edge on mj because mj joined the league later, and missed two years, and on top of that, played those washington years, that dragged down his average

im surprised an espn writer would troll this hard

[cteach111]

well, palmer says



this has nothing to do with rings, killer intinct, heart etc.

it just means lebron is the best combination of skill and physical attriutes, nothing to do with winning titles

exactly. You have a bunch of people in here that talk about everything around it. They are simply avoiding the discussion because they don't want to admit it.

[chips93]

exactly. You have a bunch of people in here that talk about everything around it. They are simply avoiding the discussion because they don't want to admit it.

well thats not to say hes right, just that people are arguing over something entirely different

[RazorBaLade]

exactly. You have a bunch of people in here that talk about everything around it. They are simply avoiding the discussion because they don't want to admit it.

Funny, thats exactly what you did when I pointed out that lebron was in the perfect position to pad stats and achieve nothing to fully showcase his talent compared to other players who had people on their team and needed to get them seriously involved and try to win.

[cteach111]

Funny, thats exactly what you did when I pointed out that lebron was in the perfect position to pad stats and achieve nothing to fully showcase his talent compared to other players who had people on their team and needed to get them seriously involved and try to win.

What are you talking about? Lebron is the #1 option in Miami and he's certainly not statpadding. He's almost playing the same exact role that he did in CLE. :wtf:

[entropy35]

In terms of basketball ability lebron will be considered the goat but Jordan considered the better winner because he has more rings.

[Inactive]

In terms of basketball ability lebron will be considered the goat but Jordan considered the better winner because he has more rings.Why? He'll certainly be considered a freak of nature, like Shaq, but his individual accomplishments aren't as impressive as Jordan's.

[RazorBaLade]

What are you talking about? Lebron is the #1 option in Miami and he's certainly not statpadding. He's almost playing the same exact role that he did in CLE. :wtf:

And how many guys got the keys to a franchise in cle then went to another team where he continues to shoot 19 or 20 times a game?

Tmac had to give up shots to Yao. Kobe to shaq then gasol. Bron hasnt given up any shots ever in his career, that has to mean something

[Extempo]

Lebron can't even hold Kobe's jock. But he is the greatest stat padder of all time, I'll give him that.

As usual, he always gets overrated at this time of the year. Then when he chokes...everyone gets a reality check and realizes how wrong they are to compare him to NBA legends. Last year Pippen did the same thing...called him the GOAT too early...and then the finals happened. Lebron's performances in his two finals have been atrocious, worse than Derek Fisher...even Fish contributed more :oldlol: So please, save me this he is better than so and so crap.

P.S. I don't give a shit about MJ...never watched him play, won't allow myself to be brainwashed by ESPN like the tards here. I've watched Kobe play for over a decade and I know for a fact that he is and always will be better than Lebron.

[6JamesIsKing]

Agreed

[cteach111]

And how many guys got the keys to a franchise in cle then went to another team where he continues to shoot 19 or 20 times a game?

Tmac had to give up shots to Yao. Kobe to shaq then gasol. Bron hasnt given up any shots ever in his career, that has to mean something

why should he give up shots? Just to be a "team player"? He's a highly effective distributor/volume scorer. Why would you want to tone down what he does best?

[ImmortalNemesis]

why should he give up shots? Just to be a "team player"? He's a highly effective distributor/volume scorer. Why would you want to tone down what he does best?


:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron can't even hold Kobe's jock. But he is the greatest stat padder of all time, I'll give him that.

As usual, he always gets overrated at this time of the year. Then when he chokes...everyone gets a reality check and realizes how wrong they are to compare him to NBA legends. Last year Pippen did the same thing...called him the GOAT too early...and then the finals happened. Lebron's performances in his two finals have been atrocious, worse than Derek Fisher...even Fish contributed more :oldlol: So please, save me this he is better than so and so crap.

P.S. I don't give a shit about MJ...never watched him play, won't allow myself to be brainwashed by ESPN like the tards here. I've watched Kobe play for over a decade and I know for a fact that he is and always will be better than Lebron.

Spoken like a true Kobe apostle. :applause:

[Soundwave]

LeBron has the ability to be as good as Jordan, but so did Vince Carter once upon a time if we're just talking raw ability.

LeBron is too nice to get to that level. That's the problem. He plays basketball to have fun.

Jordan was a stone cold killer. He played because he got extreme pleasure out of ruthlessly beating everyone.

Kobe tries to mimic that but comes off as clone that's not quite as good as the original.

[Soundwave]

Lebron can't even hold Kobe's jock. But he is the greatest stat padder of all time, I'll give him that.

As usual, he always gets overrated at this time of the year. Then when he chokes...everyone gets a reality check and realizes how wrong they are to compare him to NBA legends. Last year Pippen did the same thing...called him the GOAT too early...and then the finals happened. Lebron's performances in his two finals have been atrocious, worse than Derek Fisher...even Fish contributed more :oldlol: So please, save me this he is better than so and so crap.

P.S. I don't give a shit about MJ...never watched him play, won't allow myself to be brainwashed by ESPN like the tards here. I've watched Kobe play for over a decade and I know for a fact that he is and always will be better than Lebron.

If you don't watch Jordan, you'll never understand anything about Kobe's game.

Period.

[SacJB Shady]

I don't get how Lebron is better or greater than Jordan. I just don't get it. Jordan had a career higher field goal pct and more points. Plus he could play in the 4th quarter, and at a high level. Saying Lebron is better than Jordan is retarded and it's all just for getting attention. It's trolling.

[BlackVVaves]

Yea, Kobe, the one who cant shut down all 5 positions and who cant dominate/start/play all 5 positions, lack of efficiency, court vision, passing ability, rebounding, unselfishness, athleticism, leadership, all-round game. The one who scores mostly simply because of shotjacking the ball and cant grow a pair of brains to pass the ball to an open teammate in a close game...

:roll:

Lebron can't play Center. Lebron is no shooting guard, or shooter period. Lebron cannot "lockdown" opposing centers. And Kobe has shown he "has a pair of brains" to pass the ball to an open teammate. Or, were you so busy slobbing Lebron off in front of the hypothetical FMVPs that Lebron23 gave him that you didn't get a chance to watch the post season this year? Sadly, for am assist to count, one must actually make the shot.

Lebron will never be better than Jordan. Never. You don't do what he did in the Finals last year and still retain that "potential." The man averaged 18 PPG in the Finals. Better than Jordan? :oldlol:

[LakersReign]

:roll:

Lebron can't play Center. Lebron is no shooting guard, or shooter period. Lebron cannot "lockdown" opposing centers. And Kobe has shown he "has a pair of brains" to pass the ball to an open teammate. Or, were you so busy slobbing Lebron off in front of the hypothetical FMVPs that Lebron23 gave him that you didn't get a chance to watch the post season this year? Sadly, for am assist to count, one must actually make the shot.

Lebron will never be better than Jordan. Never. You don't do what he did in the Finals last year and still retain that "potential." The man averaged 18 PPG in the Finals. Better than Jordan? :oldlol:

:roll: :lol :oldlol: :roll:

[RazorBaLade]

why should he give up shots? Just to be a "team player"? He's a highly effective distributor/volume scorer. Why would you want to tone down what he does best?

Some people in the past have slightly given up their own stats and individual accolades to win championships and FMVPs.

[guy]

And how many guys got the keys to a franchise in cle then went to another team where he continues to shoot 19 or 20 times a game?

Tmac had to give up shots to Yao. Kobe to shaq then gasol. Bron hasnt given up any shots ever in his career, that has to mean something

Ummm what are you talking about? Kobe has been taking 20+ shots per game for the last 12 years.

[RazorBaLade]

Ummm what are you talking about? Kobe has been taking 20+ shots per game for the last 12 years.

When he had free reins to the franchise he took more shots. Same with MJ. Their career avgs just like brons are 20, yes, but they didn't have free reign their entire careers. Bron has been able to showcase exactly how good he is and what he can do because even with wade and bosh he still takes as many shots or 1 less than when he had mo williams and boobie.

Kobe went from 27ish to 20 when he went from kwame to pau.

[Inactive]

When he had free reins to the franchise he took more shots. Same with MJ. Their career avgs just like brons are 20, yes, but they didn't have free reign their entire careers. Bron has been able to showcase exactly how good he is and what he can do because even with wade and bosh he still takes as many shots or 1 less than when he had mo williams and boobie.

Kobe went from 27ish to 20 when he went from kwame to pau.Don't you think he could find a way to chuck 10 more shots, and score more points? You're right that it wasn't the franchise that limited his game. He kept himself in check, because he's an unselfish player.

[Lebron23]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_te6aSfl6kkw/TPayr9byRcI/AAAAAAAAAZk/XQ41TilxCwE/s400/bringin_back_suck_it_poster-p228263500397756414tdcp_400.jpg

[chazzy]

I remember Palmer also called Kidd the GOAT PG last year because he played better defense than Magic. I don't get what he brings to ESPN

[RazorBaLade]

Don't you think he could find a way to chuck 10 more shots, and score more points? You're right that it wasn't the franchise that limited his game. He kept himself in check, because he's an unselfish player.

nope, bron is selfish in the way that he only plays the way he likes. no matter what its his thing. he likes shooting right around 20 a game, he did it next to mo williams, he does it next to wade and bosh. or he is super passive. only games he has.

i dont hold that against him as a player, i just mean when you never compromise its a good situation to show your talents off

[sekachu]

This is the first time that I have ever discussed the comparison between LeBron and MJ so allow me to clarify.

LeBron has an all- around better offensive game then Jordan but will never be as skilled defensively or have the same killer instinct that Kobe and MJ have. Hopefully he can because I would love to see it but it's not there currently.

LeBron will also never likely get as many rings as MJ or Kobe either but I envision him retiring with 3 which will put him as a top 10 player of all time.

So there you have it.



You gotta be kidding. Better all around offensive must be MJ. Catch and shoot, off ball movement, postgame, fast break, half court individual scoring ability. Nothing better than MJ except transition game.

[Inactive]

nope, bron is selfish in the way that he only plays the way he likes. no matter what its his thing. he likes shooting right around 20 a game, he did it next to mo williams, he does it next to wade and bosh. or he is super passive. only games he has.

i dont hold that against him as a player, i just mean when you never compromise its a good situation to show your talents off He likes to hit the open man, and see his teammates score. If he's the only one scoring, his first instinct is to stop shooting, and get his teammates easy looks. That's not always the best thing for his team, but it's certainly not selfish. What stopped him from shooting more? If he shoots 50% on his first 20 shots, don't you think he can chuck up 5 more, and hit a couple?

[cteach111]

When he had free reins to the franchise he took more shots. Same with MJ. Their career avgs just like brons are 20, yes, but they didn't have free reign their entire careers. Bron has been able to showcase exactly how good he is and what he can do because even with wade and bosh he still takes as many shots or 1 less than when he had mo williams and boobie.

Kobe went from 27ish to 20 when he went from kwame to pau.

what is this gibberish? When did Jordan NOT have free reigns over his career?

[OmniStrife]

If LeBron had Jordan's mindset, he'd rape the league sideways and inside out....
Alas, his once in a century hardware is run by a bottleneck lack-luster CPU.

[bizil]

The thing that makes Bron special are these factors:

- A freakish athlete
- Tremendous size at the SF at 6'8 and anywhere from 250-260 pounds
- In terms of being a great scorer, he and Big O are in a class by themselves in terms of being as great of a passer.
- A great versatile defender capable of defending PG-PF all great as well as certain C's.

- Is a walking triple double capable of stuffing a stat sheet like nobody else

- And is currently the face of the L. He has the demeanor and charisma for the position.

So looking at all of these factors, the L hasn't seen anything like Bron. He was so highly heralded coming outta high school, and he's lived up to or exceeded the expectations. I think Bron will most likely be the first guy to rack up 20,000 points and 10,000 assists. Bron will probably end up with over 30,000 points and 9,000 to 10,000 assists which is insane shit.

When comparing him to MJ and Kobe u gotta realize MJ and Kobe are also great all around players as well. Sure they don't pass as good as Bron. But both are as good of passers that u can have at the SG. And both can defend PG, SG, and SF all well as well as play of those positions. But the key element that MJ and Kobe have over Bron is that killer alpha dog instinct. I would rather have MJ and Kobe willing a team to victory through scoring as opposed to Bron. So ultimately, I feel MJ, Kobe, Bron, Magic, and Bird are the top five perimeter players of all time. All five can stake a special claim as the best in certain ways.

[bizil]

If LeBron had Jordan's mindset, he'd rape the league sideways and inside out....
Alas, his once in a century hardware is run by a bottleneck lack-luster CPU.

I agree! If u give Bron MJ's killer instinct scoring the rock and alpha dog shit, he would be the best ever peak value wise. And if he piles up the resume with some rings, gaudy numbers, and individual accolade, he could be the GOAT! Bron's size and passing ability set him apart from MJ in that sense. MJ was a great passer. But Bron's passing instinct is even better, Bron is actually a pass first kinda guy who can also get 27-30 points a night. The only guy similar to Bron in that aspect is the Big O. MJ was more of a scoring attacking mindset who also happened to be a great passer.

As great as Bron is, I would still take MJ over Bron. I think the MOST premium asset in bball is the ability to be the ultimate alpha dog and take over a game. MJ was also a great passer on top of that so he could facilitate in a way many other alpha dogs couldn't. And MJ was as good a rebounder and defender that a 6'6 guard could be.

[jrong]

its sad that you hang on to 1 little series as if it defines his entire career

It's not one series. It's four. Spurs 07; Celtics 08; Celtics 10; Mavericks 11. Drastic individual underperformance + team series loss = individual series failure. General criteria are sub-40% shooting (Spurs 07; Celtics 08) or other special-case, dramatic failures (Celtics 10; Mavericks 11).

Jordan has one, I guess, in a first round series (can't remember which). LeBron is already disqualified from the comparison unless he wins 8 FMVPs to make up for his two Finals flops.

And lmao at the notion of LeBron being unselfish. One of the biggest fallacies in basketball is that high assists = unselfish player. I was the most selfish high-assist PG ever. Averaged double-digit dimes because literally every single time I got the ball I was driving-and-dishing.

There are high-assist players that are truly unselfish like Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and Chris Paul. Then there are high-assist players like James that rack up dimes because they monopolize an offense and insist on making the play as often as possible, one way or another.

Fanboys (including media), please, just stop. LeBron will probably be top ten, with an outside chance at top five. Take it any further, and you're just embarrassing yourselves.

[Horatio33]

If LeBron worked on his game in the summer instead of working on becoming a 'global icon' he would be so much better. Jordan became a global icon because he could play and win like no other.

[LBJDW305]

Better player and stat sheet filler? Maybe Lebron. But who I would rather have on my team? MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron. Not even close

Lebron is a better player then Kobe. Suck it

[Mach_3]

It's not one series. It's four. Spurs 07; Celtics 08; Celtics 10; Mavericks 11. Drastic individual underperformance + team series loss = individual series failure. General criteria are sub-40% shooting (Spurs 07; Celtics 08) or other special-case, dramatic failures (Celtics 10; Mavericks 11).

Jordan has one, I guess, in a first round series (can't remember which). LeBron is already disqualified from the comparison unless he wins 8 FMVPs to make up for his two Finals flops.

And lmao at the notion of LeBron being unselfish. One of the biggest fallacies in basketball is that high assists = unselfish player. I was the most selfish high-assist PG ever. Averaged double-digit dimes because literally every single time I got the ball I was driving-and-dishing.

There are high-assist players that are truly unselfish like Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and Chris Paul. Then there are high-assist players like James that rack up dimes because they monopolize an offense and insist on making the play as often as possible, one way or another.

Fanboys (including media), please, just stop. LeBron will probably be top ten, with an outside chance at top five. Take it any further, and you're just embarrassing yourselves.

This x1000, Lebron MIGHT be a better passer than Jordan but he definitely doesn't understand the game better than Jordan did

[amfirst]

Winning is the only stat that counts. U can have 1000 triple doubles but if u can't seal the deal, it doesn't mean jack.

[amfirst]

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
In terms of strictly pure basketball ability give me LeBron over MJ.

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists, steals than both Kobe & MJ


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron per 36 min (career): 24.0 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.2 apg >> Kobe, MJ

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Jordan: 15 years, 28 triple doubles; LeBron: 9 years, 39 triple doubles

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will never catch Kobe or MJ's rings but may still end up a better basketball player.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Hate to break it to you, Jordan is not a god.

I a few years when LeBron is 30 years old and ringless with a decline athleticism. They will go back to talking about how great Kobe and MJ was. It always happens.... happened when Kobe came to the NBA now LeBron then will be Durant and whoever comes next.

[Heavincent]

I guess this Chris Palmer just started watching basketball last year.

[Blue&Orange]

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
In terms of strictly pure basketball ability give me LeBron over MJ.

What basketball ability? The Lebrick? The Crab dribble?

Lebron compared to Jordan do things by brute force, saying that "in terms of strictly pure basketball ability" he is better than Jordan is one of the most retarded and clueless things anyone can say...


seriously who is this moron? oh wait... i saw it now, ESPN, never mind...

[Blue&Orange]

This x1000, Lebron MIGHT be a better passer than Jordan but he definitely doesn't understand the game better than Jordan did
The only reason Lebron is better passer than Jordan, is his absolutely inferior offensive arsenal.

Lebron likes to look great running open court, and than in half-court pass the ball instead of looking like Lebrick. It was Wade that pick apart the Pacers in half-court offense not Lebron.


With the same mindset Jordan could have easily rack more\same assists numbers.

[RedBlackAttack]

I a few years when LeBron is 30 years old and ringless with a decline athleticism. They will go back to talking about how great Kobe and MJ was. It always happens.... happened when Kobe came to the NBA now LeBron then will be Durant and whoever comes next.
Don't put Kobe on that level either. He isn't close.

[pauk]

Winning is the only stat that counts. U can have 1000 triple doubles but if u can't seal the deal, it doesn't mean jack.

Oh ffs, will you stop with that excuse already? Stop bringing TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS to measure a players actual talent-skill... we are talking about individual players here, how good of a BASKETBALL players they are...

Yes a players talent-skill has something to do with team success.... but not winning a ring is a bad excuse to bash a player when you consider that player might had the most wins during the season and went to the Finals with a team of steve urkels.......... THATS WINNING.......... winning is not dropping 25 ppg on 40% FG getting carried by a stacked team no matter how horrible you play... like averaging 15 ppg in a Finals or shooting 6 of 25 in a Game 7 and still win because of your awesome supporting cast stepping up.... thats NOT more winning...

Being the most productive-talented player and going to the Finals with the worst supporting cast ever is a MUCH more of "WINNING" than dropping 10 ppg and getting a championship anyways due to a super stacked team....

You consider Kobe a winner due to the rings he has... but if you switched him with Lebron....? Could you honestly tell me Kobe could do what Lebron did in Cleveland? I know FOR SURE Lebron would have won just as many rings as Kobe if he was a Laker in Kobes seat..... or hell, scratch that, i can guarantee you he would have WON MORE rings... why? Because Lebron gives more impact to teams due to him being a better overall basketball player, he makes teammates better, he can turn the worst team in the NBA to a probably championship contender immediately...... and there is proof to that...

Lebron is more of an actual WINNER than Kobe ever was......

[Gundress]

Man, People give LeBron too much hype ever I've seen it. He hasn't proved me anything at all, he's a great player but he's overrated to me.

How can you be great and team-up with your top 10 current player and another star?.. looking for easy way to win the ring.

If he have stayed with the Cavs and win the title, I would respect him more but if he won with the Heat, I won't respect him, that's a bitch move.


LeBron is not top 10 player of all time and even not in top 20.

I am getting sick tired of ESPN gave LeBron too much hype.

By the way, who is the f*cking Chris Palmer?

[pauk]

Lebron might not have a ring, but he makes his teams WIN more than KOBE ever could make those teams of his win......... thats WINNING for you, thats IMPACT... THATS MVP....
On the other end.... you would only LIE to yourself if you think Lebron could not won a championship with the teams Kobe had.... actually, he would have won more... not just because he is a better actual basketball player and makes his teammates better, but because he is not a selfish primadonna, which means he would not make Shaquille Oneal leave... Shaq would have stayed and they would have spammed even more rings....

[DJ Leon Smith]

Oh ffs, will you stop with that excuse already? Stop bringing TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS to measure a players actual talent-skill...

Hey remember when Jordan was outscored by Jerome Kersey in the NBA Finals?

TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DJ Leon Smith]

Lebron might not have a ring, but he makes his teams WIN more than KOBE ever could make those team win......... thats WINNING for you, thats IMPACT....

Hey remember when Kobe was outscored by Hedo Turkeyglue in the NBA Finals?

TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lebron23]

If LeBron worked on his game in the summer instead of working on becoming a 'global icon' he would be so much better. Jordan became a global icon because he could play and win like no other.


That's why LeBron trained under Hakeem Olajuwon in the off season. LeBron will destroy Kawhi Leonard if the Spurs advance in the Finals. I love to see Hakeem watch the NBA Finals. It will brought back some memories when the Rockets owned the Spurs in the 1990's. Spurs has easy road in the Finals this year. Miami will sweep the Jazz and Clippers without Bosh.

[Heavincent]

Lebron might not have a ring, but he makes his teams WIN more than KOBE ever could make those teams of his win......... thats WINNING for you, thats IMPACT... THATS MVP....
On the other end.... you would only LIE to yourself if you think Lebron could not won a championship with the teams Kobe had.... actually, he would have won more... not just because he is a better actual basketball player and makes his teammates better, but because he is not a selfish primadonna, which means he would not make Shaquille Oneal leave... Shaq would have stayed and they would have spammed even more rings....

Sorry pauk, the BS hypothetical ring theory got flushed down the toilet last year. It is not longer valid (hell, it wasn't really valid in the first place).

[cteach111]

Man, People give LeBron too much hype ever I've seen it. He hasn't proved me anything at all, he's a great player but he's overrated to me.

How can you be great and team-up with your top 10 current player and another star?.. looking for easy way to win the ring.

If he have stayed with the Cavs and win the title, I would respect him more but if he won with the Heat, I won't respect him, that's a bitch move.


LeBron is not top 10 player of all time and even not in top 20.

I am getting sick tired of ESPN gave LeBron too much hype.

By the way, who is the f*cking Chris Palmer?

but he's not looking like a coward right now. Bosh is out and he's battling like a warrior and carrying his team.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron might not have a ring, but he makes his teams WIN more than KOBE ever could make those teams of his win......... thats WINNING for you, thats IMPACT... THATS MVP....
On the other end.... you would only LIE to yourself if you think Lebron could not won a championship with the teams Kobe had.... actually, he would have won more... not just because he is a better actual basketball player and makes his teammates better, but because he is not a selfish primadonna, which means he would not make Shaquille Oneal leave... Shaq would have stayed and they would have spammed even more rings....
MVP getting outscored by bench player Jason Terry and third option Chris Bosh in the NBA Finals :bowdown:
MVP having an an NBA record highest drop-off from regular season to finals ppg :bowdown:
MVP averaging 2.2 4th quarter ppg through the first 5 games of the NBA Finals :bowdown:
MVP scoring 0 points on 0-7 shooting in the clutch in the NBA Finals :bowdown:
THATS MVP :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

but he's not looking like a coward right now. Bosh is out and he's battling like a warrior and carrying his team.


Put that douche bag back on your ignore list. No need to respond to his posts.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron is more of an actual WINNER than Kobe ever was......
:rockon: Dem 0.00000000 rings > 5

[Lebron23]

:rockon: Dem 0.00000000 rings > 5


Hey Bro,

You need to STFU until the end of this season. Your boy is gone fishing. No need to continue trolling in this thread because LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP in his 20's.

[Da_Realist]

Better than MJ? :biggums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4r_VXfeKY

The only ones who say this are either trolling or are ignorant and can't see past box scores.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hey Bro,

You need to STFU until the end of this season. Your boy is gone fishing. No need to continue trolling in this thread because LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP in his 20's.
Let's just hope he doesn't get outscored by a bench player again.

[Lebron23]

Let's just hope he doesn't get outscored by a bench player again.


Yeah

[cteach111]

Better than MJ? :biggums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4r_VXfeKY

The only ones who say this are either trolling or are ignorant and can't see past box scores.

ill give u props for compiling an hour of Jordan clutch coverage. Must have taken you a while to put together :cheers:

With that said, Lebron is on Jordan's level.

[bdreason]

Never heard of him.

[Dictator]

Jordan?????:lol :oldlol: :roll: Dude must have smoked some spaceship.....

Lebron is only good in a fastbreak situation, and-1's, or passing. lebron's passing is overrated also. It more of the player hitting the shot than Lebron assisting the player.

Kobe is also better too. Kobe played in a harder era, and ended up with 5 t's. Lebron played with "two" Franchise players and still lost as favorites. :facepalm :confusedshrug: Chris Palmer should have got slapped just for attempting to think about saying that.

[Legends66NBA7]

How does ESPN let morons like Palmer come up with these statements ?

Oh right... media has to sell some controversial statements. All part of the agenda.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
In terms of strictly pure basketball ability give me LeBron over MJ.

Opinion.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists, steals than both Kobe & MJ

Yeah, lets just ignore games played and difference of era and rules changes.

Total > Average according to Palmer.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron per 36 min (career): 24.0 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.2 apg >> Kobe, MJ

Couple of things:

1) We really going to compare different era's and rule changes for one of these examples ? Especially when it benefits one of them ? Different systems too ?

2) We don't compare Per 36. Every player is different and you can't just adjust their minutes and make things equal... when it was never equal to begin with it.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Jordan: 15 years, 28 triple doubles; LeBron: 9 years, 39 triple doubles

So Oscar, Magic, Bird, Kidd, etc... whoever else has more triple doubles > Jordan too.


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
LeBron will never catch Kobe or MJ's rings but may still end up a better basketball player.

According to what ?


ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer:
Hate to break it to you, Jordan is not a god.

Yeah, neither is LeBron.

Thanks for another well thought out opinion Palmer, good job.

:facepalm

[Heavincent]

Lebron isn't even a better player than Kobe, let alone Michael ****ing Jordan :oldlol:

Delusional ESPN Lebron stans :facepalm

[BallsOut]

LeBron will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year. Kobe was 31 yrs.old when he won his Finals MVP while Jordan turned 28 yrs.old in 1991.

:biggums:

[Collie]

This Palmer guy doesn't even give an argument WHY he thinks LBJ is better. Maybe except triple doubles, but that's incredibly trivial.

I could argue that MJ was held back by the triangle in terms of individual stats. Has LBJ ever had a season that's as good as MJ's 33/8/8? The guy had like 11 STRAIGHT triple doubles. He could have played that way his whole career and put up gaudy stats. And this was MJ before he understood the team concept fully.

[LakersReign]

Man, People give LeBron too much hype ever I've seen it. He hasn't proved me anything at all, he's a great player but he's overrated to me.

How can you be great and team-up with your top 10 current player and another star?.. looking for easy way to win the ring.

If he have stayed with the Cavs and win the title, I would respect him more but if he won with the Heat, I won't respect him, that's a bitch move.


LeBron is not top 10 player of all time and even not in top 20.

I am getting sick tired of ESPN gave LeBron too much hype.

By the way, who is the f*cking Chris Palmer?

That's my biggest problem with him. He is freakishly talented, but he's never really been all that. The pathetic b.s. Jordan comparisons are getting more annoying and honestly, quite laughable.

[TheMan]

As an individual player yea.. Lebron sure is one of the most talented players ever... better than Kobe? LOL? Ofcourse..... But Jordan... thats notdebatable...

fixed

I have no idea who Chris Palmer is, seems to be as bright as Skip Bayless:roll:

[Da_Realist]

This Palmer guy doesn't even give an argument WHY he thinks LBJ is better. Maybe except triple doubles, but that's incredibly trivial.

I could argue that MJ was held back by the triangle in terms of individual stats. Has LBJ ever had a season that's as good as MJ's 33/8/8? The guy had like 11 STRAIGHT triple doubles. He could have played that way his whole career and put up gaudy stats. And this was MJ before he understood the team concept fully.

This is why judging "talent" by stats is a foolish notion. MJ was a better player in the 90's than when he was dominating the boxscores in the late 80's.

This should end the argument. Build a team around Lebron that perfectly complements his talents and do the same for MJ. Have the two teams play in a seven game series to win it all. Whose team do you think would win?

I'd like to know who'd actually pick Lebron's team to win 4 out of 7 games so please speak up.

[RRR3]

Jordan?????:lol :oldlol: :roll: Dude must have smoked some spaceship.....

Lebron is only good in a fastbreak situation, and-1's, or passing. lebron's passing is overrated also. It more of the player hitting the shot than Lebron assisting the player.

Kobe is also better too. Kobe played in a harder era, and ended up with 5 t's. Lebron played with "two" Franchise players and still lost as favorites. :facepalm :confusedshrug: Chris Palmer should have got slapped just for attempting to think about saying that.
Words cannot express the stupidity of what I just read. Never post again. Ever.


















:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Dictator]

Words cannot express the stupidity of what I just read. Never post again. Ever :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Heat fans denying Lebron only specializes in and-1s, fastbreaks, and slightly passing. :facepalm

[bladefd]

Tell me who Chris Palmer is? Never heard of this human..

Coming from some human I never heard of, I don't care what he or she says. Don't disrespect your airness and the black mamba.

[Legends66NBA7]

Words cannot express...

He's talking about the rule changes.

[Vertical-24]

Spoken like a true Kobe apostle. :applause:

LOL well at least he admits it unlike some other Kobe stans. I appreciate the honesty.

Nonetheless, the fact that this thread continues to live is beyond me.

[upside24]

How quickly we forget. I guess some people want someone to be better than Jordan so bad they are willing to say LeBron is better since he is the only current player other than Kobe to even be in the running.

I don't care how many points LeBron scores or how many triple doubles he gets. The fact is Jordan was a better player who's impact went beyond stats and he accomplished more than just about any other player ever. LeBron's ship has sailed as far as surpassing Jordan and unless he pops off 9 rings in a row not much is going to change that.

[madmax]

How quickly we forget. I guess some people want someone to be better than Jordan so bad they are willing to say LeBron is better since he is the only current player other than Kobe to even be in the running.

I don't care how many points LeBron scores or how many triple doubles he gets. The fact is Jordan was a better player who's impact went beyond stats and he accomplished more than just about any other player ever. LeBron's ship has sailed as far as surpassing Jordan and unless he pops off 9 rings in a row not much is going to change that.

huh?
How does that work exactly?
Who got further in the playoffs with crappy teams? Lebron
Who is a better teammate and doesn't resort to bullying tactics off the court? Lebron
Are we gonna act like Pippen, Grant, Cartwright and later on Kukoc, Rodman, Kerr and etc were not a great supporting cast? LMAO
Didn't 22 years old Lebron without a jumpshot to speak off carry his bunch of D league scrubs into NBA finals? Isn't that what you call a TRUE IMPACT and winning against all the odds?

[LakersReign]

How quickly we forget. I guess some people want someone to be better than Jordan so bad they are willing to say LeBron is better since he is the only current player other than Kobe to even be in the running.

That's why they try to discredit Kobe to make Lebron look good. The laughable part about it is, Kobe has more Jordan qualities than Lebron. While the 2 can nE\ever in any way, be Jordan, it's a hilarious leap in logic to say Lebron is better when he has NONE of Jordan's qualities.


I don't care how many points LeBron scores or how many triple doubles he gets. The fact is Jordan was a better player who's impact went beyond stats and he accomplished more than just about any other player ever. LeBron's ship has sailed as far as surpassing Jordan and unless he pops off 9 rings in a row not much is going to change that.

All Lebronytes know about the game is stats, they know nothing about the game of basketball. Which is exactly why they seem to think winning multiple titels is as easy as saying "not 1, not 2, not 3." Lebron's ship has indeed already as far as surpassing Jordan. Only his delusional fans seem to think that he still has a shot at it.

[RRR3]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6xDnGeknMqw/Sil7uWCPl8I/AAAAAAAAGdE/v78cQ1l7_rU/s320/Cartman-Special-Olympics-256x256.png
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[upside24]

huh?
How does that work exactly?
Who got further in the playoffs with crappy teams? Lebron
Who is a better teammate and doesn't resort to bullying tactics off the court? Lebron
Are we gonna act like Pippen, Grant, Cartwright and later on Kukoc, Rodman, Kerr and etc were not a great supporting cast? LMAO
Didn't 22 years old Lebron without a jumpshot to speak off carry his bunch of D league scrubs into NBA finals? Isn't that what you call a TRUE IMPACT and winning against all the odds?
Oh LeBron won a chip? How did I miss that.

[RRR3]

huh?
How does that work exactly?
Who got further in the playoffs with crappy teams? Lebron
Who is a better teammate and doesn't resort to bullying tactics off the court? Lebron
Are we gonna act like Pippen, Grant, Cartwright and later on Kukoc, Rodman, Kerr and etc were not a great supporting cast? LMAO
Didn't 22 years old Lebron without a jumpshot to speak off carry his bunch of D league scrubs into NBA finals? Isn't that what you call a TRUE IMPACT and winning against all the odds?
You do realize Jordan had better stats than LeBron anyways, right? :coleman:
Stop making LeBron fans look bad

[madmax]

You do realize Jordan had better stats than LeBron anyways, right? :coleman:
Stop making LeBron fans look bad

Jordan's best seasons came in the defenseless 80's, when you didn't even have to break a sweat to shoot 56 % from the floor and average 27 PPG...defenses are simply better and more sopshisticated today (and please, don't give that bull about handchecking and tough physical play)

[bwink23]

huh?
How does that work exactly?
Who got further in the playoffs with crappy teams? Lebron
Who is a better teammate and doesn't resort to bullying tactics off the court? Lebron
Are we gonna act like Pippen, Grant, Cartwright and later on Kukoc, Rodman, Kerr and etc were not a great supporting cast? LMAO
Didn't 22 years old Lebron without a jumpshot to speak off carry his bunch of D league scrubs into NBA finals? Isn't that what you call a TRUE IMPACT and winning against all the odds?


Lebron did great up until the Finals....but the EAST was exceptionally weak at the time...when Jordan played the EAST was the toughest conference. Apples and oranges

Jordan didn't import past stars to give him a hand. His core consisted of young draft picks. Paxson wasn't a commodity with anyone before he got to the Bulls, and he was always trying to be replaced as the Bulls point guard by management.
Cartwright was old and past his prime, brought in cuz the Bulls felt they would never get by the Knicks with undersized Oakley trying to defend Ewing.

[G-Funk]

Jordan's best seasons came in the defenseless 80's, when you didn't even have to break a sweat to shoot 56 % from the floor and average 27 PPG...defenses are simply better and more sopshisticated today (and please, don't give that bull about handchecking and tough physical play)

can't argue with that

[madmax]

Oh LeBron won a chip? How did I miss that.

true, he couldn't beat powerhouse Spurs, who trapped him all the time and disregarded his teammates completely. I guess he sucks and should be crucified for it...(or better yet, he should have lost earlier - just like 80's Jordan:oldlol: )

[Da_Realist]

true, he couldn't beat powerhouse Spurs, who trapped him all the time and disregarded his teammates completely.

And the 80's Pistons did what to stop Jordan???



I guess he sucks and should be crucified for it...(or better yet, he should have lost earlier - just like 80's Jordan:oldlol: )

80's Pistons were better and deeper than any team Lebron faced.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan's best seasons came in the defenseless 80's, when you didn't even have to break a sweat to shoot 56 % from the floor and average 27 PPG...defenses are simply better and more sopshisticated today (and please, don't give that bull about handchecking and tough physical play)

Players shot better from the floor because they understood how to play team ball and wasn't raised to play AAU-style, one on one, look at me hero ball that is so prevalent today.

LOL at you thinking Lebron would have gone through the 80's Lakers/Pistons when he couldn't get past the '11 Mavs

And yes, handchecking/physical play mattered so much the league had to change the rules so teams could score more.

[bwink23]

can't argue with that


Actually you can...if you had a brain.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Wait till he chokes yet again and all this crap is laughable again, as it should be. Dont do lebron stans learn from the past? Your hero cannot snif the greatness of kobe nor jordan. Keep it real guys

[StateOfMind12]

I find it funny that Kobe is probably better than LeBron, yet you have a much better chance arguing that LeBron was better than Jordan than you do arguing that Kobe was better than Jordan. I suppose it is because LeBron has a different style and game than MJ does while Kobe's is almost exactly the same as Jordan's except he was worse in every department except long-range shooting.

You can already argue that LeBron at his best was better than Kobe ever was although I'm not sure if I would, I'm just saying you can and many people already believe that is true.

I think Kobe at his best was better than LeBron at his because Kobe was a better playoff performer. That is not to say LeBron is or was a bad playoff performer either because he isn't or wasn't, he just wasn't as good of a playoff performer as Kobe was. Kobe was a tremendous playoff performer and arguably a top 5 playoff performer of all-time.

[Da_Realist]

Didn't 22 years old Lebron without a jumpshot to speak off carry his bunch of D league scrubs into NBA finals? Isn't that what you call a TRUE IMPACT and winning against all the odds?

First off...that says more about Lebron's league than it does about Jordan's league. This guy is the main scorer on his team and DOESN'T have a jumpshot but can still lead his merry band of scrubs to the NBA Finals? Nobody thought to back off him and let him brick? Oh wait...the Spurs did. Let's see what happened.

Lebron against

2007 Spurs
22 pts, 7 rebs, 7 asts, 1 stl, 1 blk on 36% (4 games)

For comparisons sake...

Jordan against

1988 Pistons
27 pts, 9 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk on 49% (5 games)

1989 Pistons
30 pts, 6 rebs, 7 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk on 46% (6 games)

1990 Pistons
32 pts, 7 rebs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk on 47% (7 games)

1991 Pistons
30 pts, 5 rebs, 7 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks on 54% (4 games)


So Lebron finally faces a team that defended him exactly the way the 80's Pistons defended Jordan and never approached his production. And lost in 4 games. Had the Spurs and the Cavs been in the same conference, Lebron would have never made it to the Finals.

[cteach111]

First off...that says more about Lebron's league than it does about Jordan's league. This guy is the main scorer on his team and DOESN'T have a jumpshot but can still lead his merry band of scrubs to the NBA Finals? Nobody thought to back off him and let him brick? Oh wait...the Spurs did. Let's see what happened.

Lebron against

2007 Spurs
22 pts, 7 rebs, 7 asts, 1 stl, 1 blk on 36% (4 games)

For comparisons sake...

Jordan against

1988 Pistons
27 pts, 9 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk on 49% (5 games)

1989 Pistons
30 pts, 6 rebs, 7 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk on 46% (6 games)

1990 Pistons
32 pts, 7 rebs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk on 47% (7 games)

1991 Pistons
30 pts, 5 rebs, 7 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks on 54% (4 games)


So Lebron finally faces a team that defended him exactly the way the 80's Pistons defended Jordan and never approached his production. And lost in 4 games. Had the Spurs and the Cavs been in the same conference, Lebron would have never made it to the Finals.

it could have to do with the fact that he was 22 years old in his 2nd postseason... i mean that MIGHT mean something. Let's also add to the fact that he was the only threat on the floor and it all adds up.