Read this and tell me Harden wants to be "the man"

[OKCThunderUP]

There's been a lot of talk lately about whether OKC can keep Harden or Ibaka, with OKC fans saying they'll want to stay on a contender while the rest of ISH says both players are going to want to cash in. Read this excerpt from Howard Beck posted to the New York Times yesterday and tell me if you still believe Harden wants to be "the man" and get a max contract:

[quote]

[Punpun]

That's what Presti is telling us. Not what Harden thinks.

[OKCThunderUP]

That's what Presti is telling us. Not what Harden thinks.

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.

[kurt_rambis]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.
a lot can change in 3 years (and obviously has)

he might be willing to stay in okc for somewhat less money, but if someone offers harden a max contract he's gonna have to take it. there'll be way too much pressure on him not to

[Nash]

At the end of the day, you don't turn down money to stay in OKC. Basketball players have a short amount of period to earn as much cash as they possibly can, Harden would be stupid not to.

[derb2k2]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.


are you living real life?? Harden knows his value and would be a fool to not capitalize. Wouldn't you?? What real ties does he have to OKC anyway? He's coming off the bench ffs

[Punpun]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.

Holy ****, that's even worse. That's a 3 YEARS OLD INFORMATION and you take it as gospel ? :roll: :oldlol: :roll:

[comerb]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.


A whole hell of a lot has happened since draft night. I wouldn't value those words any more than a bottle of piss.

[OKCThunderUP]

are you living real life?? Harden knows his value and would be a fool to not capitalize. Wouldn't you?? What real ties does he have to OKC anyway? He's coming off the bench ffs

We gonna act like great players haven't taken less money to stay on a contender and the team that drafted?

Nah, I wouldn't leave. Championships are more important to me than money, especially when it's a job that's going to pay $8-$10 million a year. An extra $5 million a year isn't worth it to me to move to a shitty team where I'll likely never win a ring. Some guys play this game for glory rather than gold ya know.

[Punpun]

OKC will end up overpaying for him. There are teams out there ready to bid REALLY high for him. OKC will have to match up all that.

[hawkfan]

Well Nate Robinson's contract comes off the books, as does Nazr Mohammed's. Then the Thunder can get rid of Cook and Maynor to save more money. So the luxury tax hit wouldn't be as bad.

[Punpun]

Well Nate Robinson's contract comes off the books, as does Nazr Mohammed's. Then the Thunder can get rid of Cook and Maynor to save more money. So the luxury tax hit wouldn't be as bad.

Oh please. What make you think the Thunders can afford to have 3 max contract players + a HUGE contract for Ibaka ?

Not even the Lakers aren't willing to pay that much anymore.

[arifgokcen]

We gonna act like great players haven't taken less money to stay on a contender and the team that drafted?

Nah, I wouldn't leave. Championships are more important to me than money, especially when it's a job that's going to pay $8-$10 million a year. An extra $5 million a year isn't worth it to me to move to a shitty team where I'll likely never win a ring. Some guys play this game for glory rather than gold ya know.

Yeah and there is no war in the world.

Come back to reality my friend.No one sacrifices that much money to play for contender expecially if thats in very small market.Even lebron and bosh made that money that they sacrificed from tax or lack of tax.Right now harden could earn more than double the money in big market like newyork.OKC will not pay him max and a lot of teams are willing to pay him.Because he is a player that can easily average 20-5-5 with a good defense.He has a potential to be a superstar.

[bada bing]

he would be stupid to not accept big money. everyone would love for him to stay with OKC but if a team is stupid enough to offer him max, he should take it.

[arifgokcen]

Well Nate Robinson's contract comes off the books, as does Nazr Mohammed's. Then the Thunder can get rid of Cook and Maynor to save more money. So the luxury tax hit wouldn't be as bad.
OKC is a very small market.Actually they are by far the smallest among contenders.Even smaller than spurs.They will not be able to retain both.I can guarantee you they will not pay tax especially with the new CBA.They are not a big market like knicks,lakers,miami,bulls.Ibaka is max player because teams like GSW are willing to pay max for a player that can average double double and lead the league in bpg for the foreseeable future.

[Qwyjibo]

It's not just the extra $5 million per year on this contract, it would also negatively affect his next contract.

Would Joe Johnson have been in a position to get that huge $120 million deal down the road if he took less to stay in Phoenix because it was a great team? I sure don't think so. This decision for Harden is for his future earnings as well.

This is what OKC fans need to realize. You are hoping that Harden will be an exception to the rule. That's fine. I would be too if I was a fan of the Thunder. Unfortunately, what you hope and what is more likely to occur are two very different things. Unless you know James Harden personally, look back over recent NBA history and see how many players have not taken the money.

[innervisions]

It's not just the extra $5 million per year on this contract, it would also negatively affect his next contract.

Would Joe Johnson have been in a position to get that huge $120 million deal down the road if he took less to stay in Phoenix because it was a great team? I sure don't think so. This decision for Harden is for his future earnings as well.

This is what OKC fans need to realize. You are hoping that Harden will be an exception to the rule. That's fine. I would be too if I was a fan of the Thunder. Unfortunately, what you hope and what is more likely to occur are two very different things. Unless you know James Harden personally, look back over recent NBA history and see how many players have not taken the money.

But how happy is Joe Johnson right now? He'll have a ton of money, but Atlanta is not good enough to win a championship and won't be any time soon. He will retire and be remembered as a decent 2-guard and sit on his $200 million with no silverware and no immortality. That is exactly what will happen to Harden if he leaves. OKC is a great organization with enough talent to contend for championships for the next 8-10 years. Seriously. Harden could end up making $50 million less if he stays, but he could also be talked about as an all-time great with 3-4 championships. He could be remembered as part of a core like the Bird/McHale/Parrish Celtics, Magic/Kareem/Worthy Lakers, Duncan/Ginobili/Parker Spurs, etc. I know which one I would take. It is crazy to talk about money like it's the only important thing in life.

That doesn't mean that Harden will make this choice. He could also want to be the man and feel like being the highest earner with a max team on his team will make him feel better. But the logic of taking a bigger contract is just not unassailable, especially when a Durant/Westbrook/Harden OKC can be an all-time great team. The types of teams that throw max money at young players who can't play defense generally aren't smart enough to win anything, let along the string of championships OKC can win.

[I<3NBA]

if someone offers Harden max, OKC will have to match or else watch Harden leave. it'll be even harder to keep Ibaka as so many teams are in desperate need of a big man like Ibaka.

[SpecialQue]

Keeping Harden is going to be a priority, and as long as he gets the money, I don't think Harden will go anywhere. He's talented enough to be a starter on any team, though, and him staying is going to depend entirely on his ego. How humble would you say Harden is?

[itsGameTime]

The OP is in denial. The sooner you come to grips with Harden leaving for more money and a bigger contract, the better you'll cope.

[bukowski81]

There's been a lot of talk lately about whether OKC can keep Harden or Ibaka, with OKC fans saying they'll want to stay on a contender while the rest of ISH says both players are going to want to cash in. Read this excerpt from Howard Beck posted to the New York Times yesterday and tell me if you still believe Harden wants to be "the man" and get a max contract:



I don't know how Ibaka feels about the end of his rookie deal and the contracts that will surely be thrown his way, but I have a feeling Harden is going to take less money to stick around on a team that will be contending for titles for the next decade.

Harden wants to be "the man"

[SpecialQue]

Another thing: as long as he's in OKC, he's in Durant and Westbrook's shadow. Does he seem like he's going to be content with that? Is he the type of player who would want to gun for MVP?

[Qwyjibo]

It is crazy to talk about money like it's the only important thing in life. ETC.
It isn't. But for any rational person it probably should be more important than the personal pride one gets from team success or a piece of jewelry. If I were Joe Johnson, I'd be very happy with my career and definitely would not regret signing that offer sheet with Atlanta back then.

Let's use your example of the extra $50 million that he'd miss out on. That's a gigantic amount of money. How many generations of Harden's family could live off that? Even without looking at the tangible aspect of it, won't many players prefer to have the spotlight of being the "top guy"? Trying to succeed in that situation rather than playing behind two All-NBA players?

Since I don't know Harden personally (and I assume no one else here does either), I'm going to use recent history as an indicator of what might happen. The list of players not taking the money is very short.

Harden will get max offers if he hits restricted free agency. His agent should know this and he will advise Harden accordingly. If OKC doesn't offer him a max extension or can't match, IMO odds are that he leaves.

[simcjt]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NpCEYAH3Dag/TBfIROOp8CI/AAAAAAAAANA/LmZc7aOye1U/s1600/RickJamesPoster.jpg

That wasn't weeks ago but years

[Real Men Wear Green]

Another thing: as long as he's in OKC, he's in Durant and Westbrook's shadow. Does he seem like he's going to be content with that? Is he the type of player who would want to gun for MVP?
We've never heard a public complaint about being sixth man so that may be ok but the money issue is extremely important for nearly every young player.

[Ketchup]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.

Yeah... People don't stick around at their jobs to be apart of a "team"... They get more money and move onto that job.

If he doesn't... I'll truly buy into the 'basketball players are stupid athletes who get paid too much talk'.

[All Net]

I expect thunder to extend him before he gets to free agency.

[SpecialQue]

We've never heard a public complaint about being sixth man so that may be ok but the money issue is extremely important for nearly every young player.

Good point, but he got good REAL fast, so who knows.

[Pointguard]

It isn't. But for any rational person it probably should be more important than the personal pride one gets from team success or a piece of jewelry. If I were Joe Johnson, I'd be very happy with my career and definitely would not regret signing that offer sheet with Atlanta back then.

Let's use your example of the extra $50 million that he'd miss out on. That's a gigantic amount of money. How many generations of Harden's family could live off that? Even without looking at the tangible aspect of it, won't many players prefer to have the spotlight of being the "top guy"? Trying to succeed in that situation rather than playing behind two All-NBA players?

Since I don't know Harden personally (and I assume no one else here does either), I'm going to use recent history as an indicator of what might happen. The list of players not taking the money is very short.

Harden will get max offers if he hits restricted free agency. His agent should know this and he will advise Harden accordingly. If OKC doesn't offer him a max extension or can't match, IMO odds are that he leaves.
This. He's too good to not want the challenge of seeing what he can do on his own terms. And he owes it to himself and family to pursue that. At his age he isn't thinking legacy. He will likely win it all before his next contract and kind of take it for granted like everybody else. Just the same, he has too much light to stay in the shadows...

[innervisions]

It isn't. But for any rational person it probably should be more important than the personal pride one gets from team success or a piece of jewelry. If I were Joe Johnson, I'd be very happy with my career and definitely would not regret signing that offer sheet with Atlanta back then.

Let's use your example of the extra $50 million that he'd miss out on. That's a gigantic amount of money. How many generations of Harden's family could live off that? Even without looking at the tangible aspect of it, won't many players prefer to have the spotlight of being the "top guy"? Trying to succeed in that situation rather than playing behind two All-NBA players?

Since I don't know Harden personally (and I assume no one else here does either), I'm going to use recent history as an indicator of what might happen. The list of players not taking the money is very short.

Harden will get max offers if he hits restricted free agency. His agent should know this and he will advise Harden accordingly. If OKC doesn't offer him a max extension or can't match, IMO odds are that he leaves.

I understand wanting to be a #1 guy. I also think that you're right to point out the pattern of guys taking that max deal and to suggest that it is realistic that Harden will do the same.

But all that aside, whatever amount of money Harden will earn over his career is enough to keep him and his family happy for 100 years. You could do that with $15 million, forget about $150 million. What is at stake (and was not really at stake with Johnson in Phoenix, because they weren't good enough to win) is glory and immortality. OKC is cut out to win for a decade.

And I think that most guys with $150 million at the end of their career would take multiple championships with a great organization over an extra $50 million. Most young guys aren't thinking this way, but if Harden is as "mature" as people say he is I think there is a chance that he could see this perspective as well.

[LBJMVP]

At the end of the day, you don't turn down money to stay in OKC. Basketball players have a short amount of period to earn as much cash as they possibly can, Harden would be stupid not to.


yup becuase the 9-10 million dollar contract OKC will give him isn't enough to live on... he has to feed his family you know.

[TonyD]

I wouldn't blame him at all for leaving for more money. Team loyalty is a joke, except in very specific cases with certain franchise players. And that's a knock on NBA Owners/Front Offices, not the players. If I was Harden and OKC tried to sell on some "take less money for the good the team" bullsh*t, I would disrespected and that they were trying to take advantage of me.

[Whoah10115]

Shutup.

[ripthekik]

How happy is Joe Johnson right now?
Are u effing with me?

He is much happier than you I can tell you that. He can have anything in the world he wants, travel to every beautiful destination, have beautiful woman.
If I were him I'd still be happier than anything else. Remember, this is a job, and people's priority is to make as much money as possible.

Legacy. You really think it matters so much? Who's going to remember about it in 20-30 years? Do what fans think of the players matter that much to them? Do their legacy bring in food for them? No.. when they retire, its their bank account that is there for them.

If LOTS more money is on the table, Harden will leave. Only if there difference is really little, then perhaps Harden will take the less money offered and stay in OKC. But dream on if you think he will leave a max-contract on the table. 99.9999% of the population on this Earth won't. You are that dumb ass 0.00001%

[Cowboy Thunder]

Obviously, Thunder are best team in the world

[ripthekik]

And I think that most guys with $150 million at the end of their career would take multiple championships with a great organization over an extra $50 million. Most young guys aren't thinking this way, but if Harden is as "mature" as people say he is I think there is a chance that he could see this perspective as well.
That's what guys say at the end of their career, sure. Remember, these are superstars who have earned MILLIONS. (You think guys that didn't make as much would say this?) And only after they've earned them, they say this.

But if you are a young player.. do you risk taking the lower money? What if you got a career-ending injury? So you end up with sth like 5 mil compared with 100 mil that you will earn over your career. Is this risk worth it?

Never. Not a person with a clear mind would do this.

[IGOTGAME]

he would be stupid to not accept big money. everyone would love for him to stay with OKC but if a team is stupid enough to offer him max, he should take it.

he is a max type player imo.

He should go and take the money somewhere else. Taking a huge paycut to stay in Oklahoma City is crazy. Don't let them sell you on some bs. There is a big difference between 20 million dollars and 10-12 million dollars. Not to mention the difference in the market and he would also be able to develop as a player.

I swear people put too much on winning titles for guys like Joe Johnson. He is never winning as the man and would likely not win as a #2. So taking the money is well worth more than just a shot at being part of a championship team. It is just a huge difference in lifestyle and pay.

[innervisions]

He should go and take the money somewhere else. Taking a huge paycut to stay in Oklahoma City is crazy. Don't let them sell you on some bs. There is a big difference between 20 million dollars and 10-12 million dollars.

The difference wouldn't be that big. A '13-'14 max would be around $16/yr for somebody coming off their rookie contract without qualifying for Rose money. The Thunder would offer at least $13-14/yr.



I swear people put too much on winning titles for guys like Joe Johnson. He is never winning as the man and would likely not win as a #2.

If you read my posts, you'd see that I acknowledged that Johnson would not have won in Phoenix. Harden would just likely end up as a Johnson-type 2 guard at an underperforming 4/5 seed like the Hawks.



Legacy. You really think it matters so much? Who's going to remember about it in 20-30 years? Do what fans think of the players matter that much to them? Do their legacy bring in food for them?


Glory and legacy don't matter to NBA players? If somebody has a job in a field about which he is passionate, he almost certainly wants to accomplish something within that field and be remembered for being great and feel great himself. And "food" is not an issue for NBA players, stop saying that.


That's what guys say at the end of their career, sure.

But if you are a young player.. do you risk taking the lower money? What if you got a career-ending injury? So you end up with sth like 5 mil compared with 100 mil that you will earn over your career. Is this risk worth it?

This isn't the NFL. As long as nothing happens to Harden by the end of the '12/'13 season, he will have an obscene amount of money once he signs his contract.

[triangleoffense]

That's all good and well but when it comes to choosing between 7-8 million or 12-15 million per year, loyalty and contention only go so far. It's not like this is Shaq or so other superstar coming off a max contract payment who wants to win a championship, this is a younger player who has never landed a big/long-term contract in his life.

OKC fans can tell themselves whatever they want. Come negotiating time let's see what happens, that's when the big-money, championship winning deals come into play that only teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, etc can use in their favor.

[tikay0]

Lets face it, with today's society,media,agents. No way on earth he doesnt take a max offer from the highest bidder. Essentially he will only get 2 chances at a max contract. The first one is always crucial, because you never know what happens with your career.

[tikay0]

Their are so few players that literally cant leave their franchises. I actually can only think of one, derrick rose. If he left the city of chicago, OMFG, you thought "the decision" was bad!?

[triangleoffense]

Their are so few players that literally cant leave their franchises. I actually can only think of one, derrick rose. If he left the city of chicago, OMFG, you thought "the decision" was bad!?
There are a couple and Rose i wouldn't have on that list. Most of the players on this type of list have been with their respective franchise their entire career, think Kobe, Duncan, type of players. Imagine how you would feel if either of those two left.

[dunksby]

Harden is staying with us but I won't stop y'all delusional stans daydreaming of getting him :lol

[SpecialQue]

Harden is staying with us but I won't stop y'all delusional stans daydreaming of getting him :lol

:roll:

[Kblaze8855]

Harden is staying with us but I won't stop y'all delusional stans daydreaming of getting him


Dont be next brother:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171968&page=5

[innervisions]

Do people not understand that OKC can almost definitely offer a max and will offer, at worst, like 85% of a max? Nobody is suggesting that he will take a 7-8 mil offer.

[Kobe681]

but if Harden is as "mature" as people say he is I think there is a chance that he could see this perspective as well.

Thats not being 'mature' at all.

Actually the 'mature' thing to do would be to take the max offer, its the safe thing to do.

You keep talking about the championships like like theyre a guaranteed thing, theyre not. But that money IS....

[Snoop_Cat]

Anything more than a few million per year at best, and Harden is guaranteed to be gone. Let's say it's like 2-3 million per year over a 5 year contract. That right there is 10-15 million. Also, the next contract he can make will be less money as well. You never know when you're a professional athlete, Harden can very possibly get hurt really bad, making his next contract his last. He's gone from maybe 80 million to 65 million. You also have to account for the fact that they get taxed a ton.

Not to mention the perks, bonuses, endorsement deals, prestige, etc. that comes with being THE man, an All-Star, potential All-NBA, potential benefits of a bigger markets and all that should he decide to leave.

[IGOTGAME]

Thats not being 'mature' at all.

Actually the 'mature' thing to do would be to take the max offer, its the safe thing to do.

You keep talking about the championships like like theyre a guaranteed thing, theyre not. But that money IS....

I'm just confused as to how much people think championships as a 3rd option are worth...Are they worth 50 million in lost earnings over time? 60 million?

I don't know what Harden will do...but I wouldn't find it virtuous if he left a large sum of money to stay in OKC.

[imdaman99]

harden is NOT a max type of player. he is like a diff version of monta ellis. VERY good player, great driver to the basket, can do it all. even defend some. but he won't be a winner unless he has good talent around him. you dont think if teams concentrated on his pick and roll that they could devise game plans to shut him down? obviously he is still gonna get better, but 3rd option on a championship team is no small feat.

i suppose 15 mill a year is better than 10 mill... it might secure his great grandkids to live comfortably instead of just his grandkids. pay me a few million and ill play in alaska :oldlol:

[IGOTGAME]

harden is NOT a max type of player. he is like a diff version of monta ellis. VERY good player, great driver to the basket, can do it all. even defend some. but he won't be a winner unless he has good talent around him. you dont think if teams concentrated on his pick and roll that they could devise game plans to shut him down? obviously he is still gonna get better, but 3rd option on a championship team is no small feat.

i suppose 15 mill a year is better than 10 mill... it might secure his great grandkids to live comfortably instead of just his grandkids. pay me a few million and ill play in alaska :oldlol:

how do you know this? what is the deficiency in Harden's game that makes you so sure? Keep in mind that he is 22 years old. Personally, I don't believe most people should get max contracts but based on the nba marketplace he is more willing than a lot of players. Come on, the guy has shown a lot....

I would give Harden a max contract before I gave one to Arenas, Lewis, Johnson, Amare, Blake Griffin, Bynum etc.

[dunksby]

Dont be next brother:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171968&page=5
You insult me by comparing me to PB, I let you off this time.

[dunksby]

:roll:
Look at the mad Lakers/Clippers stan :lol

[OKCThunderUP]

I'm just confused as to how much people think championships as a 3rd option are worth...Are they worth 50 million in lost earnings over time? 60 million?.

There are times when he's the best player on the floor though (see 4th quarter of game 4 vs Dallas). Parker/Manu/Duncan have all been "3rd options" at some point on that Spurs dynasty but no one refers to them as such. They'll all go down in history as being one of the best trios to have played the game.

Winning a chip--or multiple chips--makes you immortal. HOF bids. GOAT discussions. Future players will always be compared to them. Would you rather have that or the money?

[IGOTGAME]

There are times when he's the best player on the floor though (see 4th quarter of game 4 vs Dallas). Parker/Manu/Duncan have all been "3rd options" at some point on that Spurs dynasty but no one refers to them as such. They'll all go down in history as being one of the best trios to have played the game.

Winning a chip--or multiple chips--makes you immortal. HOF bids. GOAT discussions. Future players will always be compared to them. Would you rather have that or the money?

would I rather have a 1/1000 chance of coming close to what the Spurs did or a 1/10000 of creating a different legacy +50-60 million dollars+ not living in OKC during my 20s(worth a ton of money to me)...

I'll take the one that lets me make more money, not live in OKC and still have a chance to carve out a legacy and test my limits as a player. The Spurs situation was different also because they aren't so close in age. Duncan pulled back and eventually let Manu and Parker take on more...The ages here are so close that it will likely not happen.

[Qwyjibo]

Winning a chip--or multiple chips--makes you immortal. HOF bids. GOAT discussions. Future players will always be compared to them. Would you rather have that or the money?
If the cost for that is $30-40 million? Money.

[imdaman99]

how do you know this? what is the deficiency in Harden's game that makes you so sure? Keep in mind that he is 22 years old. Personally, I don't believe most people should get max contracts but based on the nba marketplace he is more willing than a lot of players. Come on, the guy has shown a lot....

I would give Harden a max contract before I gave one to Arenas, Lewis, Johnson, Amare, Blake Griffin, Bynum etc.
so what do you see harden developing so much more of to become a top 5 player? he does everything so well, he can fine tune a few things. maybe he can shave his beard and make it aerodynamic, im sure his beard is holding him back just a tad bit.

but seriously, a max player? i dunno about that man. i know hes not in his prime, no one ever is at 22. but HOW much better is he going to get?

[SpecialQue]

Look at the mad Lakers/Clippers stan :lol

:biggums:

[gtfomyface]

money.. who cares if people mention you on basketball forums and discussions ..lmao

[kurt_rambis]

how do you know this? what is the deficiency in Harden's game that makes you so sure? Keep in mind that he is 22 years old. Personally, I don't believe most people should get max contracts but based on the nba marketplace he is more willing than a lot of players. Come on, the guy has shown a lot....

I would give Harden a max contract before I gave one to Arenas, Lewis, Johnson, Amare, Blake Griffin, Bynum etc.

he's shown himself to be an amazing player off the bench, but hardly a sure thing. and it's not like there's a huge demand for 6'5" 2-guards who can defend and score in bunches. there are a ton of guys in the league like that. harden might be among the best, but he's not a rare commodity.....unlike bynum, who will definitely get a max contract. he's honestly one of 2-3 centers in the league right now with solid offensive skills

[IGOTGAME]

so what do you see harden developing so much more of to become a top 5 player? he does everything so well, he can fine tune a few things. maybe he can shave his beard and make it aerodynamic, im sure his beard is holding him back just a tad bit.

but seriously, a max player? i dunno about that man. i know hes not in his prime, no one ever is at 22. but HOW much better is he going to get?

I don't think he reps and more games and more opportunities. I can't stand Harden but I'm pretty high on him as a player. I'd put him in my top 15 in the league right now.


he's shown himself to be an amazing player off the bench, but hardly a sure thing. and it's not like there's a huge demand for 6'5" 2-guards who can defend and score in bunches. there are a ton of guys in the league like that. harden might be among the best, but he's not a rare commodity.....unlike bynum, who will definitely get a max contract. he's honestly one of 2-3 centers in the league right now with solid offensive skills

but there aren't many two guards who can score in bunches, facilitate at an extremely high level and draw fouls at an elite level(guy is 12th in the league in fta while coming off the bench). Because of that imo he is a sure thing. There really isn't another player in the league under 25 like him in that regard. In a league where Melo is a max player, how is Harden not?

Unlike Bynum, with his knees and attitude is a HUGE risk to any franchise that gives him a max contract. Many franchises SHOULD take this risk. But don't forget it is a risk. Guy is a knucklehead.

[NugzFan]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.

that quote was from draft night? :oldlol:

gotta love homers.

[kurt_rambis]

but there aren't many two guards who can score in bunches, facilitate at an extremely high level and draw fouls at an elite level(guy is 12th in the league in fta while coming off the bench). Because of that imo he is a sure thing. There really isn't another player in the league under 25 like him in that regard. In a league where Melo is a max player, how is Harden not?

Unlike Bynum, with his knees and attitude is a HUGE risk to any franchise that gives him a max contract. Many franchises SHOULD take this risk. But don't forget it is a risk. Guy is a knucklehead.

melo has proven himself to be an elite scorer. he only does one thing well, but he's arguably top 5 at it

harden's young and the jury is still out. he's in an incredible situation in OKC, playing with two phenomenal players and there's not a whole lot of pressure on him. any team willing to give him the max contract is more than likely going to expect him to start and play big minutes, and in that role he's unproven. it would be a risky move

as a player i like harden waaaay more than bynum, but think about the center situation in the league right now. deandre jordan is making $10M/year lol

[Grey Dawn]

I can see Harden getting a sizely contract, but a MAX contract?

I don't think so. That would be a bigger stretch than JJ with Atlanta, which is the dummest max contract ever.

[Qwyjibo]

I can see Harden getting a sizely contract, but a MAX contract?

I don't think so. That would be a bigger stretch than JJ with Atlanta, which is
the dummest max contract ever.
If I was Washington, Toronto, Cleveland or any of those lower tier teams that will never attract a premium free agent in unrestricted free agency I would absolutely throw a max deal at him. Harden is exactly the type of player you risk that on. He's an extremely efficient scorer who gets to the line a lot (sustainable in the long run), he can create his own offense and is a solid defensive player. He will also be entering his "prime" years so any 5 year deal locks him up for likely his most productive seasons before he starts to decline.

As a Raptors fan, I'd be all for them throwing a max deal at him if he reaches restricted free agency. Force OKC to match it at least.

[Smoke117]

lolwut. He's paraphrasing what Harden told him on draft night.

Keyword: Draft night. Things change.

[tikay0]

There are a couple and Rose i wouldn't have on that list. Most of the players on this type of list have been with their respective franchise their entire career, think Kobe, Duncan, type of players. Imagine how you would feel if either of those two left.


Rose is from Chicago, and also one of its ambassadors. :facepalm IF you were from Chicago, you would understand how impossible it is for rose to leave. He puts way too much pressure on himself to win a ring for his city. He's the only player in the league, i can honestly say would never ever leave his team.

[ripthekik]

Winning a chip--or multiple chips--makes you immortal. HOF bids. GOAT discussions. Future players will always be compared to them. Would you rather have that or the money?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
MONEY. And I'd make that decision 100 times out of 100.
You think these players cry at home when they come online and find "OKCTHUNDERUP" says "Harden is a loser who never won a ring in his career."? Or when he turns on TV and hear maybe once in 10 years his name being mentioned?

Get a grip. I'm pretty sure you are still in school somewhere, or have rich parents and have never made a month's salary ever.

You, or whatever basketball fanatics might consider him, Joe Johnson, and whoever never to have won a ring because they went for the money to be losers, but look at the reality. They have accomplished more in their lives than you ever have (and you ever will even if you have 5 lifetimes). Look at how he has provided for his family, the real estates they can buy, investments they can make. He can single handedly provide for his next 10 generations provided they don't screw it up. That is a major accomplishment in LIFE that each man seeks.

does accolades and trophies in a game matter? yes, for bragging rights. But real accomplishments in life? providing for your family, your future generation, giving back to the community- those are real accomplishments, which comes with the better contract.

[tikay0]

You guys act like harden wants to live in OKC, the dude is a young black male, i highly doubt OKC is where he wants to spend the majority of his next 3-5 years.

[tikay0]

The stands in OKC look like an old school southern highschool, all white football game. That arena just looks racist. :roll: :oldlol: :D

[Owl]

melo has proven himself to be an elite scorer. he only does one thing well, but he's arguably top 5 at it

harden's young and the jury is still out. he's in an incredible situation in OKC, playing with two phenomenal players and there's not a whole lot of pressure on him. any team willing to give him the max contract is more than likely going to expect him to start and play big minutes, and in that role he's unproven. it would be a risky move

as a player i like harden waaaay more than bynum, but think about the center situation in the league right now. deandre jordan is making $10M/year lol
He shoots 20 times a night. But typically below 45%, his main virtue that makes him useful (other than creating/taking shots, and not necessarily good ones) is drawing fouls which at least brings his ts% up to a solid level. But Harden too can draw fouls and also defend better, play off the ball, plays at a more talent scarce position, is younger etc.

The better argument against the statement that "Melo= Max guy therefore Harden = Max guy" is that one bad contract doesn't justify another.

But IDK if that would apply to Harden as the max is lower now anyway, Harden is young, has shown tremendous growth and plays a talent scarce position.

What Harden said a long time ago is not necessarily an indication of how he feels now.

Whilst I disagreed with the timing (the Celtics still had a title shot, weren't going to get anything good anyway and could have attempted a sign and trade) Boston getting rid rather than overpaying Perkins was the right move and Perkins' acquisition has put OKC into a tough spot over what to do with Ibaka and Harden and has to go down as a rare poor move for OKC when looking at the long term.

[Snoop_Cat]

For people thinking along the lines of "He's already making 80 million, why do you need 10 million more", you need a a huge reality check. Yeah, you can have almost anything that you want with 80 million, but a sizable chunk of that is lost to taxes, agent fees, etc. On top of that, with the lavish lifestyles these guys will live all their lives, they're going to want and need the extra funds for their future.

10-20 million extra is an unfathomable amount of money that most of us will never come close to sniffing.

[tikay0]

For people thinking along the lines of "He's already making 80 million, why do you need 10 million more", you need a a huge reality check. Yeah, you can have almost anything that you want with 80 million, but a sizable chunk of that is lost to taxes, agent fees, etc. On top of that, with the lavish lifestyles these guys will live all their lives, they're going to want and need the extra funds for their future.

10-20 million extra is an unfathomable amount of money that most of us will never come close to sniffing.

Plus the girls in OKC gotta be hideous.

[OKCThunderUP]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
MONEY. And I'd make that decision 100 times out of 100.
You think these players cry at home when they come online and find "OKCTHUNDERUP" says "Harden is a loser who never won a ring in his career."? Or when he turns on TV and hear maybe once in 10 years his name being mentioned?

Missing the point.


Get a grip. I'm pretty sure you are still in school somewhere, or have rich parents and have never made a month's salary ever.

I am probably older than you, more educated than you, and make more money in a month than you have all year. Don't bring personal attacks into this, kid.


You, or whatever basketball fanatics might consider him, Joe Johnson, and whoever never to have won a ring because they went for the money to be losers, but look at the reality. They have accomplished more in their lives than you ever have (and you ever will even if you have 5 lifetimes). Look at how he has provided for his family, the real estates they can buy, investments they can make. He can single handedly provide for his next 10 generations provided they don't screw it up. That is a major accomplishment in LIFE that each man seeks.

Why are you comparing me to elite basketball players? You know that's completely irrelevant and nonsensical right?

For what it's worth, there are players who love the game of basketball as much as their own family and friends. The difference between $50 million and $85 million is a moot point. Both contracts could feed 10 generations of a player's family if invested correctly.


does accolades and trophies in a game matter? yes, for bragging rights. But real accomplishments in life? providing for your family, your future generation, giving back to the community- those are real accomplishments, which comes with the better contract.

Again, missing the point.

[RoseCity07]

I believe Harden does want to be a part of a winning culture. Yet, I think every players wants as much money as their talent demands. Harden isn't going to take role player money. Throw that pipe dream out the window.

[Punpun]

that quote was from draft night? :oldlol:

gotta love homers.

It's hilariously deluded. Even if Harden stays, he will get a HUGE contract thaat would hinder OKC. No way you can have 2 superstar, a all-star AND a servicable big in the same team.

[Pharcyde]

Do people not understand that OKC can almost definitely offer a max and will offer, at worst, like 85% of a max? Nobody is suggesting that he will take a 7-8 mil offer.

Their tax hit will be pretty hefty especially with the new CBA rules regarding repeat offenders. One of Harden or Ibaka will have to leave, it's really whoever they can convince to stay with them for less money. I'm sure it will be Ibaka but you will never know until that happens.

Edit: You also have to add in the new rules regarding signing players when you are over the tax (there is less money you can spend with the MLE and whatnot) and that they will need to fill out the roster/have cap holds/have rookie contracts.

This is a tricky situation for a lot of the contenders. The lakers, Bulls, Heat and even the Knicks will have a lot of thinking on what to do. If large market teams are not wanting to pay this tax I can not see the Thunder willing to pay it.

[chips93]

I can see Harden getting a sizely contract, but a MAX contract?

I don't think so. That would be a bigger stretch than JJ with Atlanta, which is the dummest max contract ever.

:durantunimpressed:

[G-train]

At the end of the day, you don't turn down money to stay in OKC. Basketball players have a short amount of period to earn as much cash as they possibly can, Harden would be stupid not to.

Hear this alot.... how many MILLIONS do you need to live 50 years after retirement?

[chips93]

Hear this alot.... how many MILLIONS do you need to live 50 years after retirement?

need doesnt mean shit, its what he wants that matters

maybe harden wants some hammer type shit, champagn sprinklers, golden toilets, all that

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hear this alot.... how many MILLIONS do you need to live 50 years after retirement?
We also hear a lot of stories like Antoine Walker's, where a guy somehow manages to make 50+ million dollars and yet go completely broke. If Harden has some financial sense this won't happen to him but human history is full of stories of lottery winners that blew it.

And it's not just about living good in his lifetime, he's going to want to set up generations.

[AngelEyes]

Hear this alot.... how many MILLIONS do you need to live 50 years after retirement?

As many as they can get.

[G-train]

My point is, 5 yrs 35-40m or whatever is plenty for him if OKC can afford. Then he has another big contract after that. He doesn't need a massive contract now to live in TOTAL luxury and like a king yet also contend for titles.
If he wants to try to be a big time billionaire businessman and accumulate wealth, so be it.. go take 100m.
If you want to chill in a palace and shine your rings with KD and RW while having a barbeque and have 30m in the bank and multiple investments making money as well, then stick around.

[G-train]

We also hear a lot of stories like Antoine Walker's, where a guy somehow manages to make 50+ million dollars and yet go completely broke. If Harden has some financial sense this won't happen to him but human history is full of stories of lottery winners that blew it.

And it's not just about living good in his lifetime, he's going to want to set up generations.

Walker would have blown $200m if he had it.
You can set up generations with a few million.
These players are making INSANE money, most of it wasted in many situations.
Depends what he values more, more money or more accomplishments.

[IGOTGAME]

My point is, 5 yrs 35-40m or whatever is plenty for him if OKC can afford. Then he has another big contract after that. He doesn't need a massive contract now to live in TOTAL luxury and like a king yet also contend for titles.
If he wants to try to be a big time billionaire businessman and accumulate wealth, so be it.. go take 100m.
If you want to chill in a palace and shine your rings with KD and RW while having a barbeque and have 30m in the bank and multiple investments making money as well, then stick around.

assume he gets hurt and this is his last contract. 5 years 40 million.

First: 10% to agent off the top - 4 million
Second: 40% of 40 million to Uncle Sam - 16 million
That Leaves him with 20 million dollars, not including houses, accountants etc., possible divorce, alimony, child support.

That is a hell of a lot of money but lets also realize that he isn't a businessmen and that there is a chance he makes bad investments etc.

All of this stuff factored in, he could potentially end up needed to work again later in life to sustain his current lifestyle. Plus, some may want to set their entire family up for generations.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Walker would have blown $200m if he had it.
You can set up generations with a few million.
These players are making INSANE money, most of it wasted in many situations.
Depends what he values more, more money or more accomplishments.
And you can set up more generations for several million. Everyone else is getting paid, why should Westbrook limit his career earnings to half of what they should be just because the owners bargained for a cap limit that makes it harder for his team's owner to sign him at market value? Clay Bennett voted for the hard cap so now he can deal with the repercussions. I know for a fact his family is set up for several upon several generations.

As far as accomplishments go, players get traded and injured all the time. Look at Miami, if they don't win it all this year people are talking like they could be trading Bosh, maybe even Wade. When T-Mac went to Orlando he thought he'd be ruling the EC with Grant Hill. If Bosh is dealt his Championship dreams are out the window, just like McGrady in Orlando. The winning is not at all guaranteed. The money is. And that's why first and foremost you get the money, because a guy like Kevin Garnett can never tell when Danny Ainge is plotting to unite him with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce from a thousand miles away.

[50inchvertical]

The stands in OKC look like an old school southern highschool, all white football game. That arena just looks racist. :roll: :oldlol: :D
I don't know why people keep repeating that other than you guys look up to Barkley. OKC is 16% black, which is higher than the national average and far from the lowest of all the teams in the NBA who have NBA teams

That said, I do think it will be impossible for us to keep him and Ibaka. We will probably be able to keep one.

He's going to get 10mil+ a yr offers. No matter how much he likes it here or likes KD and Russ, he's not going to be like, "just give the MLE."

As for the not starting, he and Brooks talked about it as recently as this summer and he is still fine with that since he still gets 30+ minutes, finishes games, and is still a major factor but like everyone else said, money talks.

I don't know what teams have money, but there are a lot of young teams like Utah, Minnesota, Cleveland in the East, who might be right on the cusp and would like to have a guy like him to build around with their core for the next 5-6 yrs.

It's not like Presti doesn't know the contract status of those 2 guys either. I'm sure he has a plan for it. Hell, you could flip either of those guys for a lottery pick and cash if you like a guy well enough in an upcoming draft.

[50inchvertical]

And by the way, Westbrook took less money (17million less over 5yrs to be exact) to stay in OKC. Even though KD extended for the max, he rejected having a player opt out yr on the 7th yr that OKC was willing to give him. Perkins extended the 2nd day he was here, so it's not like "small market" is that big of a deal compared to being in a winning team/culture. Atlanta is known for being fun as shit, but nobody is like dying to get there either.

[Real Men Wear Green]

And by the way, Westbrook took less money to stay in OKC. Even KD extended for the max and rejected having a player opt out yr on the 7th yr. Perkins extended the 2nd day he was here, so it's not like "small market" is that big of a deal.
The problem isn't the market size, it's the new CBA that has heavier luxury tax penalties. OKC can keep everyone but only if Bennett is willing to pay out a ton. Might be worth it for a Champion, not sure how much merchandise they'd be selling if they won it all.

[ihoopallday]

Even if Harden won a ring with OKC, would he still stay? After what happened to Brandon Roy and Greg Oden, players probably realized injuries can destroy your career quickly. Get as much money possible while you're still 100%.

[G-train]

And you can set up more generations for several million. Everyone else is getting paid, why should Westbrook limit his career earnings to half of what they should be just because the owners bargained for a cap limit that makes it harder for his team's owner to sign him at market value? Clay Bennett voted for the hard cap so now he can deal with the repercussions. I know for a fact his family is set up for several upon several generations.

As far as accomplishments go, players get traded and injured all the time. Look at Miami, if they don't win it all this year people are talking like they could be trading Bosh, maybe even Wade. When T-Mac went to Orlando he thought he'd be ruling the EC with Grant Hill. If Bosh is dealt his Championship dreams are out the window, just like McGrady in Orlando. The winning is not at all guaranteed. The money is. And that's why first and foremost you get the money, because a guy like Kevin Garnett can never tell when Danny Ainge is plotting to unite him with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce from a thousand miles away.

I disagree.
Harden is a ball player first. He should be playing for titles. Not for the most money he can make. Bennett is a businessman. He voted for a hard cap as a businessman, I dont know him personally - he may have voted for it for purely his own wealth or he may have deeper beliefs of sustaining franchises long term.
In general USA citizens are full of fear, and one of the biggest fears they are brought up with is the fear of running out of money.
Harden's USA advisors, people on this board, would tell him take the most money.
The perception many Americans have is NOT the truth.
In this situation, Harden will not run out of money IMO. He seems to me to be a genuine, intelligent dude.
He plays to win. He doesn't demand to start. He doesn't demand plays to be ran for him. He isn't driven by fear of selfishness as many people are. He can sign a contract for multiple millions.
If he needs to take 40m he'll take it. But the NBA is a fools world where money speaks louder to most, so maybe he thinks that way. Doesn't appear to IMO. The thing I like the most about the dude is that he isn't afraid to swim against the current. Just because everyone chases money doesn't mean you have to play the game.
You can build a differnet culture to most of the NBA if you want to, and I believe OKC is trying to do that. Money doesn't have to be the most important thing, winning can be.
Example one is the Spurs. Parker and Manu make 12m. They could have taken much more at other teams. Splitter took less IMO. Example 2 is Miami. Wade and Lebron dropped cash to win. Haslem has dropped cash twice. Chalmers dropped cash. Guess who will be in the NBA finals? ;) Maybe. but they are in the conference finals at least.
Winning teams are most often built on principles, not money. Harden knows one NBA culture, a spawn of SA with Presti as GM. He is going to be a multimillionaire, rich beyond most of our imagination. And most importantly a successful person/player.

[50inchvertical]

Well, with the Big 3 in Miami, "pay cut" is relative. They still get 96 million over the next 5 seasons. Haslem didn't take a pay cut. Nobody was going to give him more than what he makes now. Mike Miller at 24 mil over the next 4 yrs is overpaid.

[IGOTGAME]

What happens if this whole thing doesn't work and they trade harden to the bobcats...

[swi7ch]

Harden may not want to be the man but Westbrook DEFINITELY wants to be the man. He's like Stephon Marbury 2.0. He can't stomach being a #2 guy when he is really a #1 guy.

[Is He Ill]

Harden may not want to be the man but Westbrook DEFINITELY wants to be the man. He's like Stephon Marbury 2.0. He can't stomach being a #2 guy when he is really a #1 guy.

I seriously doubt that he would have signed the 5 year extension if "he can't stomach being a #2 guy."

[Real Men Wear Green]

I disagree.
Harden is a ball player first. He should be playing for titles. Not for the most money he can make. Bennett is a businessman. He voted for a hard cap as a businessman, I dont know him personally - he may have voted for it for purely his own wealth or he may have deeper beliefs of sustaining franchises long term.
In general USA citizens are full of fear, and one of the biggest fears they are brought up with is the fear of running out of money.
Harden's USA advisors, people on this board, would tell him take the most money.
The perception many Americans have is NOT the truth.
In this situation, Harden will not run out of money IMO. He seems to me to be a genuine, intelligent dude.
He plays to win. He doesn't demand to start. He doesn't demand plays to be ran for him. He isn't driven by fear of selfishness as many people are. He can sign a contract for multiple millions.
If he needs to take 40m he'll take it. But the NBA is a fools world where money speaks louder to most, so maybe he thinks that way. Doesn't appear to IMO. The thing I like the most about the dude is that he isn't afraid to swim against the current. Just because everyone chases money doesn't mean you have to play the game.
You can build a differnet culture to most of the NBA if you want to, and I believe OKC is trying to do that. Money doesn't have to be the most important thing, winning can be.
Example one is the Spurs. Parker and Manu make 12m. They could have taken much more at other teams. Splitter took less IMO. Example 2 is Miami. Wade and Lebron dropped cash to win. Haslem has dropped cash twice. Chalmers dropped cash. Guess who will be in the NBA finals? ;) Maybe. but they are in the conference finals at least.
Winning teams are most often built on principles, not money. Harden knows one NBA culture, a spawn of SA with Presti as GM. He is going to be a multimillionaire, rich beyond most of our imagination. And most importantly a successful person/player.
So Harden can't be a "businessman" like Bennett and operate with his own wealth in mind as well? That doesn't make any sense. In fact, it makes less sense for Harden. Bennett and his family will be making money off of the Thunder and Bennett's other enterprises for decades to come, hundreds of years even. Harden as a ballplayer only has 10-15 years (barring serious injury) where he can guarantee himself multimillion-dollar income. You say he's an intelligent guy. Well if he is his intelligence is telling him that he won't be able to make this kind of money when he's 40. And Wade and Lebron "dropped cash" while signing 100 million-dollar contracts. Harden won't even be able to sign deals the size they got while they took slightly less.

[goldenryan]

The fact that the thunder's biggest problem is being able to afford to keep all the great players they drafted is a good sign. As long as durant and westbrook are there they will be fine. Also it was good move not to trade harden and ibaka for howard, trading to important character teammates for a personality like howard could of killed the morale of the team

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Durant didn't take a discount.

Westbrook didn't take a discount.

Hell even Perkins did not take a discount.

But Harden will because he said he wanted to play with a couple of other great players before he was ever drafted?

:oldlol:

[ripthekik]

Missing the point.



I am probably older than you, more educated than you, and make more money in a month than you have all year. Don't bring personal attacks into this, kid.



Why are you comparing me to elite basketball players? You know that's completely irrelevant and nonsensical right?

For what it's worth, there are players who love the game of basketball as much as their own family and friends. The difference between $50 million and $85 million is a moot point. Both contracts could feed 10 generations of a player's family if invested correctly.



Again, missing the point.
I am comparing you with Harden because you need to view him as another human being, who wants to provide for his family just like you and I do.

The fact that you think him trying to win championships and built a legacy in a sport is more important than making as much money as he can in his career is hilarious. This is just a SPORT, a GAME. Yes they do it for a living, but just because it's their career do they have to view it as their life and above everything else?

Stop viewing him as a basketball machine, who plays "for the love of the game". He's just another human being like you and me, who goes home to his family everyday, and tries to think of ways to earn the most money possible in his career. 90% of NBA players play for money. The other 10% are players who have already earned their millions.

And missing what point? You are the one missing the point, in a delusion thinking an NBA player would give up so much just for accolades and bragging rights. Not to mention you opened a thread quoting a quote which is three years old :roll: That's a joke by itself. "Read this" as if the quote had any importance in it. Zip, none. That quote is as useless as the tissue I'm about to whip my ass with, "kid".

[50inchvertical]

Durant didn't take a discount.

Westbrook didn't take a discount.

Hell even Perkins did not take a discount.

But Harden will because he said he wanted to play with a couple of other great players before he was ever drafted?

:oldlol:
Westbrook took a 17mil over 5yr discount. He was eligible for the full "Derrick Rose extension."

[ballinhun8]

So Harden is just too scared to be the Man?? Is that it?