Tim Duncan Is About To Break An Amazing Record.

[Clippersfan86]

8 blocks away from all time playoff blocks record. He's at 469 right now trailing Hakeem (472) and Kareem (476). Such great longevity and success to pull that off.

[1987_Lakers]

Pretty sure Russell or Wilt would have the record if they tracked blocks back in the 60's.

[tpols]

Pretty sure Russell or Wilt would have the record if they tracked blocks back in the 60's.
Yup. Playoff Blocks Record.*

[Clippersfan86]

Pretty sure Russell or Wilt would have the record if they tracked blocks back in the 60's.

They didn't track steals either but it's still a huge accomplishment.

[OmniStrife]

Pretty sure Russell or Wilt would have the record if they tracked blocks back in the 60's.
Well, at least they tracked the WPG (women per game), and MLT (mountain lions tossed) back then...

[Heavincent]

Well, at least they tracked the WPG (women per game), and MLT (mountain lions tossed) back then...

:roll:

[TheBigVeto]

Greatest player after Jordan, no doubt.

[Haymaker]

Well, at least they tracked the WPG (women per game), and MLT (mountain lions tossed) back then... :roll:

[Force]

Kareem had many more blocks than that since they didn't keep track before, but good for Duncan anyways.

[blacknapalm]

how many games for each player? still, that's huge. i didn't realize he was so close. that dunk on durant last night was pure timing. durant jumped much higher and duncan still denied him

[Fazotronic]

Pretty sure Russell or Wilt would have the record if they tracked blocks back in the 60's.

thank god they didn't track blocks back than.
that would be an other stat that would mean jack beacause of competition and pace of the game.

[kumquat]

Well, at least they tracked the WPG (women per game), and MLT (mountain lions tossed) back then...

:roll:Wilt = GOAT WPG+ MLT

[jlauber]

thank god they didn't track blocks back than.
that would be an other stat that would mean jack beacause of competition and pace of the game.

So, in other words, about every 20-25 years we should shred the record books and start over?

As for blocked shots, Wilt played in 160 post-season games, so there is a good chance that he blocked AT LEAST 1000 shots, and perhaps as many as 1500.

[CeltsGarlic]

Well, at least they tracked the WPG (women per game), and MLT (mountain lions tossed) back then...

:roll:

[Glide2keva]

thank god they didn't track blocks back than.
that would be an other stat that would mean jack because of competition and pace of the game.THEN

[jlauber]

thank god they didn't track blocks back than.
that would be an other stat that would mean jack beacause of competition and pace of the game.

BTW, Psileas posted a source which tracked many of Chamberlain's blocks in his LAST two seasons, 71-72 and 72-73, and I believe that Wilt averaged between around 7 bpg in '72 and around 6 bpg in '73.

Which is interesting, in that the NBA began "offiicially" tracking bpg the very next season after Wilt retired. Elmore Smith led the NBA that next season, at 4.9 bpg (and Kareem was a distant second at 3.5 bpg.)

Keep in mind that in Wilt's LAST season, the NBA averaged 107.6 ppg on .456 shooting. The very next season, in 73-74, the NBA averaged 105.7 ppg on .459 shooting. Just this last season, in a strike-shortened season, with a condensed schedule that considerably impacted scoring and shooting, the NBA averaged 96.3 ppg on .448 shooting.

Now, go ahead and do the math. Did Wilt play in an era in which scoring and shots were DOUBLE what we see today? Hell no...in his LAST season, the NBA averaged 96.9 FGAs per game. In 2011-12, the NBA averaged 81.4 FGAs per game.

So, just this last year, the NBA was at 89.4% of the scoring in Wilt's LAST season, and at 84.0% of the FGAs.

Now, you can argue other factors, like the game is more perimeter-oriented today, but how do explain Ibaka averaging 3.7 bpg (and RUNNING AWAY with the bpg title), in 27 mpg? And Eaton's 5.6 bpg in 34 mpg, in an NBA that shot an all-time best .491 from the field (less misses)?

BTW, in Wilt's 71-72 playoff run, he was blocking about 7-8 shots per game, which included about 4 bpg on Kareem alone in their 6 H2H's. And he averaged 7 bpg against the "perimeter-oriented" Knicks in the Finals. All from a 35 year old Wilt, at around 300 lbs, and playing on a surgically repaired knee.

[jlauber]

And here we go... bringing the name of a man that played in a era where guards where averaging nearly 20 boards a game...

Hollywood should start working on a tribute movie... the adventures of Mighty Wilt, fighting Hydras, riding on winged unicorns and pulling wrestling moves on god.

Kudos to Tim. One of the best PFs(if not the best) in the history of this game.

Ok, you tell me when we should begin to track NBA records then. Give me the exact year.

[tpols]

Ok, you tell me when we should begin to track NBA records then. Give me the exact year.
The day after Wilt's retirement. Sometime in the 70s.

[jlauber]

The day after Wilt's retirement. Sometime in the 70s.

That seems to be the consensus. There are the ESPN records, and then there are the actual records, most of which are owned by Chamberlain.

[Odinn]

Tim Duncan;
8th in the career playoff points
5th in the career playoff rebounds
3th in the career playoff blocks
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[jlip]

And here we go... bringing the name of a man that played in a era where guards where averaging nearly 20 boards a game...

Hollywood should start working on a tribute movie... the adventures of Mighty Wilt, fighting Hydras, riding on winged unicorns and pulling wrestling moves on god.

Kudos to Tim. One of the best PFs(if not the best) in the history of this game.

The top 250 rebounding seasons in NBA history (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/trb_per_g_season.html). It stops at 12.61rpg and not one guard is even included. This means that no guard in any era ever got within ~7 rpg of 20rpg.

Back to the thread. Impressive feat by Duncan. He is truly an all time great.

[Anaximandro1]

Went unnoticed,but yesterday he became the all-time leader for Defensive Rebounds

NBA Career Playoff Leaders and Records for Defensive Rebounds (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/drb_career_p.html)

1. Tim Duncan 1644
2. Shaquille O'Neal 1642
3. Karl Malone 1560
4. Larry Bird 1323
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1273

[jlauber]

The top 250 rebounding seasons in NBA history (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/trb_per_g_season.html). It stops at 12.61rpg and not one guard is even included. This means that no guard in any era ever got within ~7 rpg of 20rpg.

Back to the thread. Impressive feat by Duncan. He is truly an all time great.

I didn't bother arguing that ridiculous claim, either. But for those that are interested, take Wilt and Russell out of the equation...and in the entire HISTORY of the NBA, there has been FOUR full 20+ rpg seasons. Thurmond had a 21.3 rpg year, Pettit had a 20.3 rpg season, and Lucas had two seasons of 21.1 rpg and 20.0 rpg.

As a sidenote...in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season in which the NBA averaged 50.6 rpg per team (to give you an idea...in THIS post-season, the NBA is currently averaging 44.0 rpg per team.)

And that 22.5 rpg mark is the LAST time anyone ever averaged as many as 17.3 rpg (Kareem in his 11 playoff games in 76-77.)

[jlauber]

By guard i mean players with the skills/gameplay and frame of a NBA guard... Elgin Bailor averaged 19.82 boards a game 60-61.

BAYLOR was a full 6-5...or about as tall as Charles Barkley, who won a rebounding title at 14.6 rpg. Barkley was obviously one of the greatest rebounding "guards" in NBA history.

Once again, explain to me this supposed huge difference...

Wilt, in his LAST season, at age 36, averaging 22.5 rpg in his 17 post-season games, in a post-season in which the average team averaged 50.6 rpg...

and compare that to the CURRENT playoffs, being played right now, in which the average NBA team is getting 44.0 rpg.

Give me your breakdown on how Wilt's rebounding numbers (again, in his LAST season) would translate in TODAY's NBA.

[Alamo]

Tim Duncan;
8th in the career playoff points
5th in the career playoff rebounds
3th in the career playoff blocks
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Greatness. Top 6 player all time.

[jlauber]

the dud was freaking guard playing forward and averaged around 4 times a normal guard average, are you gonna tell me baylor would averaging close to that nowadays.

Its the same in every sport... a new sport is born, some dude comes put ridiculous number, rules are adjusted to make it harder... Wilt laying up/dunking his way to 100 points games is not different than Ty Cobb batting .420 in a single season...

Baylor's 19.8 rpg season translates into about a 13 rpg season in TODAY's NBA.

Kevin Love's 15.3 rpg season in 2011 is about the equal of Lucas's 21.1 rpg season. BTW, those that actually saw the 6-8 Lucas play would claim he was every bit the player that the 6-9 Kevin Love is, including shooting range.

As far as "new sport", you mean a sport that was invented in the 1890's? That was played by college's in the 1890's? And was played by PROFESSIONAL teams as far back as the 1920's?

And you obviously didn't see Chamberlain "laying up and dunking" his way to 100 points, either.

Take a look at this footage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

or this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4WZXiaDzyc&feature=related

or this block...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs


BTW, MJ averaged 37.1 ppg in an NBA that averaged 109.9 ppg. Kobe averaged 35.4 ppg in an NBA that averaged 97.0 ppg. MJ's season translates to a 32.7 ppg average in Kobe's '06 season. Meanwhile, Wilt's 50.4 ppg season translates to 41.1 ppg in Kobe's 06 season.

Just some food for thought...

And how do explain the 6-7 Ben Wallace averaging 15.4 rpg just a few years ago?

[jlauber]

the dud was freaking guard playing forward and averaged around 4 times a normal guard average, are you gonna tell me baylor would averaging close to that nowadays.

Its the same in every sport... a new sport is born, some dude comes put ridiculous number, rules are adjusted to make it harder... Wilt laying up/dunking his way to 100 points games is not different than Ty Cobb batting .420 in a single season...

As for the Cobb reference, baseball has been played with a variety of stadiums and dimensions, with deadballs, "lively" balls, corked bats, pitching mounds of different heights, and players blown up on steroids.

BUT, think about this...

In 1941 Ted Williams hit .406, with 37 HRs and against "pre-integration" pitching (some of the same pitchers who faced Babe Ruth BTW.) In 1957, and ten years AFTER Jackie Robinson, a 38 year old Williams hit .388 with 38 HRs.

In that same season, Hank Aaron hit 44 HRs. In 1973, some 16 seasons later, Aaron hit 40 HRs in only 392 ABs.

In 1973 Nolan Ryan struck out 383 batters in 326 IP. In the 8th inning of one game, and after 162 pitches, he was clocked at 101 MPH, by a SLOW radar gun.

In 1989, at age 42, Ryan struck out 301 batters in 239 IP. BTW, on his LAST PITCH, at age 46, and on an injured arm, he was clocked at 98 MPH.

Ryan's ERA in 1973, at age 26... 2.87. In 1991, at age 44, Ryan's ERA was 2.91.

What does all of that mean?

You tell me...

[jlauber]

the dud was freaking guard playing forward and averaged around 4 times a normal guard average, are you gonna tell me baylor would averaging close to that nowadays.

Its the same in every sport... a new sport is born, some dude comes put ridiculous number, rules are adjusted to make it harder... Wilt laying up/dunking his way to 100 points games is not different than Ty Cobb batting .420 in a single season...

And explain this to me...

A PRIME Kareem, from '69-70 thru '74-75...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263453

And yet, a 38-39 year old Kareem averaged 33 ppg on a mind-boggling .633 shooting, over the course of TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem, with THREE games of 40, 42, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes). And within a few days of that 46 point beatdown, Kareem destroyed Ewing in a game in which he outscored Patrick, 40-9, and outshot him 15-22 to 3-17.

How could a relative unknown like Thurmond, and over the course of 43 H2H games, hold a PRIME Kareem to a HIGH game of 34 points (and only SEVEN 30+ point games total), and yet an old Kareem who could barely jump, score at will against Hakeem and Ewing?

And, then how about the 6-10 Moses Malone, who played in the 70's and 80's? He absolutely dominated a Kareem who some claimed was in his prime in the late 70's (and then abused him in the early to mid-80's). He battered Kareem in their 40 H2H's.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255307

If anything, I could argue that the game was much HARDER back in the 60's and 70's.

[Punpun]

Nope. You could only state that KAJ is the best Center ever. And arguably the best player ever.

It's different Jlauber.

Oh wait, now you're claiming Moses was better than KAJ. It's just straight up hilarious.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He has the record for most times dunked on too

[TheFan]

Jlauber, you just throwing random facts around...
so whats your point? those are exceptions not the rule.. and Kobe dropped 33 on Jordan as 19 years old... and then kobe destroyed Jordan wizards for 55 points... and Jordan a player with skills similar to nowadays game dropped 60+ over veteran Celtics team in the playoff...
so what?

The game has evolved, you can't extrapolate performance directly into this era... there is more information about a certain player, coaches know what are the preferred shooting spots for a given player, if you are a bad shooter from the elbow, guess what shot defense will allow you to take?

Its simple, whats so hard to understand? If Wilt Chamberlain played in this era, he wouldn't be averaging 40pts-20rbs-10blks, its that simple, he would be a great player, maybe the best in the league, but averaging numbers more according to this era... something like prime Patrick Ewing numbers... whats the unintelligible part?

[Punpun]

so what?

Kobe is clearly above Jordan. Thank you TheFan for proving that statement through the "Jlauber Method".

:bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

whatever happened to the jlauber vs millwad video?

[jlauber]

Nope. You could only state that KAJ is the best Center ever. And arguably the best player ever.

It's different Jlauber.

Oh wait, now you're claiming Moses was better than KAJ. It's just straight up hilarious.


Once again, THURMOND reduced Kareem DRAMATICALLY. This wasn't a RANDOM set of games. The two faced off in 43 H2H games (and by most accounts, one-on-one.) Kareem SELDOM scored 30 points on Nate (and, in fact, had as many games UNDER 20, as he did over 30...SEVEN.) Not only that, but he was holding Kareem to under 45% in the vast majority of those H2H's. And this was a PRIME Kareem. In three straight playoff series, from 70-71, thru 72-73, Kareem shot .486, .428, and .405 (yes .405, in a series in which Thurmond outscored and outshot him.) His HIGH game against Thurmond...in 43 H2H's...was 34 points.

Now, how about a PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain? In a span of 11 STRAIGHT H2H's, from their last H2H in '65, thru nine H2H's in '66, and into their first H2H in '67 (which was a year after Wilt's last "scoring" season), Chamberlain AVERAGED 30 ppg against Thurmond, which included games of 30, 33, 33, 34, 38, and 45 points. And he was abusing Nate in those games, too...outscoring him 33-17, 33-10, 38-15 and 45-13.

In Wilt's three post-season encounters with Thurmond, he outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392, .550 to .398, and a staggering .560 to .343. He also POUNDED Thurmond on the glass in every one of those series, and in nearly every game.

As for the Moses-Kareem matchups...whether they defended each other or not (and yes, they did)...Moses was by FAR the more dominant player in their 40 (yes, 40 H2H's.) And, he was even MORE dominant in their seven playoff H2H's.

I wouldn't rank Moses over Kareem, but it must be noted that Moses held a 3-1 edge over Kareem in MVPs during their careers in the NBA at the same time, and he battered Kareem H2H in the one year in which Kareem outvoted him.

[Horatio33]

JLauber once again sucking the fun and life out of a thread. Nice one.

[LBJMVP]

So, in other words, about every 20-25 years we should shred the record books and start over?

As for blocked shots, Wilt played in 160 post-season games, so there is a good chance that he blocked AT LEAST 1000 shots, and perhaps as many as 1500.

wilt was goaltending the f*ck outta balls back then.
most of his points would probly be taken away from all the offessive goaltending he did.

[Legends66NBA7]

whatever happened to the jlauber vs millwad video?

Got Young Jlauber vs Old Jlauber instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHJuifYlbY

[jlauber]

Jlauber, you just throwing random facts around...
so whats your point? those are exceptions not the rule.. and Kobe dropped 33 on Jordan as 19 years old... and then kobe destroyed Jordan wizards for 55 points... and Jordan a player with skills similar to nowadays game dropped 60+ over veteran Celtics team in the playoff...
so what?

The game has evolved, you can't extrapolate performance directly into this era... there is more information about a certain player, coaches know what are the preferred shooting spots for a given player, if you are a bad shooter from the elbow, guess what shot defense will allow you to take?

Its simple, whats so hard to understand? If Wilt Chamberlain played in this era, he wouldn't be averaging 40pts-20rbs-10blks, its that simple, he would be a great player, maybe the best in the league, but averaging numbers more according to this era... something like prime Patrick Ewing numbers... whats the unintelligible part?

THAT is my point. You and many other's just throw out Chamberlain's numbers, (and I gave you a great example of Wilt's rebounding in his LAST post-season), but then you acknowledge that he might be the best in the league.

Would he average a 40-20-10? Not likely, but a 35-18-6 would not be unbelieveable either...especially given the fact that we had Kobe with a 35 ppg season only a few years ago (and Shaq with a 30 ppg season a dozen years ago),...while just two years ago a 6-9 Kevin Love averaged 15.2 rpg in 36 mpg...and just this past year Ibaka averaged 3.7 bpg in 27 mpg.

[jlauber]

wilt was goaltending the f*ck outta balls back then.
most of his points would probly be taken away from all the offessive goaltending he did.

You do realize that both offensive and defensive goal-tending were illegal BEFORE Chamberlain ever stepped foot into the NBA, don't you?

[Psileas]

It was definite that this would be a(n) (anti-)Wilt thread, as are most threads about "records".

Wilt blocked 33 shots in the last 4 games of the 1972 WCF against Kareem's Bucks (you know, that center from the era when "guards averaged 20 rpg", but this center for some reason never managed to :rolleyes: ). He also blocked 72 shots in the first 10 games of the 1973 postseason, at the age of 36+ (including 23 in 3 games against the Warriors of Nate Thurmond and Rick Barry). Give Wilt only these 14 games and he already stands at #56 in the All-Time list, lol. Hell, give Wilt only the games his team faced HOF or even top-50 GOAT player level centers, and he'd be at or very close to the #1 of the all-time list.

[jlauber]

JLauber once again sucking the fun and life out of a thread. Nice one.

I merely challenged the OP's take that Duncan is about to break a so-called "record", when we really don't KNOW...and in fact, based on the information we do have, is probably not even close to the REAL record.

[LJJ]

Got Young Jlauber vs Old Jlauber instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHJuifYlbY

The companion post smackdown in that link is best of all.

[Legends66NBA7]

It was definite that this would be a(n) (anti-)Wilt thread, as are most threads about "records".

Wilt blocked 33 shots in the last 4 games of the 1972 WCF against Kareem's Bucks (you know, that center from the era when "guards averaged 20 rpg", but this center for some reason never managed to). He also blocked 72 shots in the first 10 games of the 1973 postseason, at the age of 36+ (including 23 in 3 games against the Warriors of Nate Thurmond and Rick Barry). Give Wilt only these 14 games and he already stands at #56 in the All-Time list, lol. Hell, give Wilt only the games his team faced HOF or even top-50 GOAT player level centers, and he'd be at or very close to the #1 of the all-time list.

Great stuff.

:applause:

[jlauber]

It was definite that this would be a(n) (anti-)Wilt thread, as are most threads about "records".

Wilt blocked 33 shots in the last 4 games of the 1972 WCF against Kareem's Bucks (you know, that center from the era when "guards averaged 20 rpg", but this center for some reason never managed to :rolleyes: ). He also blocked 72 shots in the first 10 games of the 1973 postseason, at the age of 36+ (including 23 in 3 games against the Warriors of Nate Thurmond and Rick Barry). Give Wilt only these 14 games and he already stands at #56 in the All-Time list, lol. Hell, give Wilt only the games his team faced HOF or even top-50 GOAT player level centers, and he'd be at or very close to the #1 of the all-time list.

Chamberlain also had a known 17 blocks in three games, of a five game series, against the Bucks in the '71 playoffs, and 8 of them were against Kareem. And, the recaps credited Chamberlain with "numerous" blocks in game two of that series.

Of those 33 known blocks in the '72 WCF's , covering four of the six games, against the Bucks, Wilt had 15 just against Kareem.

So, in the known seven of the 11 playoff games against the Bucks in '71 and '72, Chamberlain had 50 blocked shots...and 23 were against Kareem. And, that does not include the "numerous" blocks in game two of the '71 WCF's, nor any of his blocks in the other two games.

I believe ThaRegul8r had Chamberlain at over 7 bpg in the '72 Finals (and Wilt either had 9 or 10 in the clinching game five win.) So, I am pretty confident, then, that in his five Finals games, he had at least 35 blocks.

So that means that we now have Chamberlain with at LEAST 50 blocks in the two WCF's against the Bucks, and 35 more in the '72 Finals. Add in your 72 known blocks in the first ten playoff games of '73, and he now has at LEAST 157...just in a TOTAL of 22 playoff games.

I'm sure we could dig up quite a few more, but just off the top of my head, Wilt had 12 blocks in game one of the '67 ECF's (a QUAD double game of 24-32-13-12.) He also had seven blocks in the clinching game five of that series (a 29-36-13-7 game.) That brings his known totals to 176 in 24 playoff games.

I believe he was alson credited with 11 blocks in game seven of the '70 playoff series against the Suns (a 30-27-11 game) in a comeback from a 3-1 series deficit. So, now we are up to 187 known blocks in just 25 playoff games (7.5 bpg), and most all of them in the latter part of his career (with the exceptions of those two games in the '67 ECF's.)

Keep in mind that Wilt played in 160 post-season games, and yet, in just 25 of those games, he is already up to 187 known (or reasonably well known) career blocks....which now moves him up to...get this...19th ALL-TIME.

Then, think about this...those 187 blocks would put him 289 behind the all-time leader (Kareem, and in 237 games.) So, all Wilt would have had to have averaged in his 135 other post-season games, was 2.2 bpg to have had a career record of 484.

I'm sure you and I could dig up other known playoff games in which Chamberlain recorded blocks, too. I have even read recaps in which he blocked four shots within a matter of seconds...and in games in which there was no known total.

The real question then, would be, how many blocks did Russell have in his 165 post-season games,. and whether or not, he, or Chamberlain, are the ACTUAL leaders? In any case, it is a 99.9% certainty that they are #1 and #2 all-time.

[Big#50]

I merely challenged the OP's take that Duncan is about to break a so-called "record", when we really don't KNOW...and in fact, based on the information we do have, is probably not even close to the REAL record.
We all know Wilt blocked 1,000 shots in the playoffs. This thread is for Tim.

[jlauber]

We all know Wilt blocked 1,000 shots in the playoffs. This thread is for Tim.

And you already know how I feel about Duncan here. I have defended him here often (and yes, I rank him over Hakeem.)

BUT, it is not fair to the legacy's of Wilt and Russell, that they are not listed in these "all-time" rankings. It would be much more reasonable for those that post these so-called "records" to at least acknowledge that they do not include players like Russell and Wilt, who most assuredly had not only more playoff blocks, but MANY MORE playoff blocks.

[magic chiongson]

what would wilt's stats look like if he played in the euroleague?

[Big#50]

And you already know how I feel about Duncan here. I have defended him here often (and yes, I rank him over Hakeem.)

BUT, it is not fair to the legacy's of Wilt and Russell, that they are not listed in these "all-time" rankings. It would be much more reasonable for those that post these so-called "records" to at least acknowledge that they do not include players like Russell and Wilt, who most assuredly had not only more playoff blocks, but MANY MORE playoff blocks.
I always wondered why the NBA never recorded steals or blocks in those days. Is basketball the only major only sport not to record an important stat like that? They recorded assists. Did they not value defense?

[KevinNYC]

The top 250 rebounding seasons in NBA history (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/trb_per_g_season.html). It stops at 12.61rpg and not one guard is even included. This means that no guard in any era ever got within ~7 rpg of 20rpg.

Back to the thread. Impressive feat by Duncan. He is truly an all time great.

Nice work.

[Carbine]

THAT is my point. You and many other's just throw out Chamberlain's numbers, (and I gave you a great example of Wilt's rebounding in his LAST post-season), but then you acknowledge that he might be the best in the league.

Would he average a 40-20-10? Not likely, but a 35-18-6 would not be unbelieveable either...especially given the fact that we had Kobe with a 35 ppg season only a few years ago (and Shaq with a 30 ppg season a dozen years ago),...while just two years ago a 6-9 Kevin Love averaged 15.2 rpg in 36 mpg...and just this past year Ibaka averaged 3.7 bpg in 27 mpg.

Those scoring numbers, 35 points per game like you suggest, are not realistic for anyone anymore - as a true low post player. Not with the new rules.

Shaq did those numbers you are talking about with the old rules....and even then, 30 ppg is still quite a bit different than 35.

[CavaliersFTW]

what would wilt's stats look like if he played in the euroleague?

No way Wilt could keep his NBA pace against competition like this

Jeron Teng drop 104
http://www.nextping.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/jeron-teng.png

Mohammad Akkari drop 113
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2012/04/06/62117_mainimg.jpg

Marin Ferenčević drop 178p 22r 16s
http://www.index.hr/images2/MarinFerencevic888V.jpg

Wilt would get dominated :lol

[DonD13]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/23586/timmy.jpg


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[PTB Fan]

:applause: :applause:

He broke the defensive rebounds record as well.

However, i'm pretty sure either Wilt/Russell are the all time leaders in this category, more likely to be Wilt.

[jlauber]

:applause: :applause:

He broke the defensive rebounds record as well.

However, i'm pretty sure either Wilt/Russell are the all time leaders in this category, more likely to be Wilt.

Well, there is NO doubt that it was either Russell or Wilt. Those two are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the next best post-season rebounders in terms of total rebounds.

Having said that, that record is probably held by Russell, who had a higher post-season rpg average (24.9 rpg to Wilt's 24.5 rpg), and also played in five more playoff games than Chamberlain.

[jlauber]

Those scoring numbers, 35 points per game like you suggest, are not realistic for anyone anymore - as a true low post player. Not with the new rules.

Shaq did those numbers you are talking about with the old rules....and even then, 30 ppg is still quite a bit different than 35.

The problem with this "fact" is that the scoring record before Chamberlain ever joined the NBA, was 29.2 ppg. Take Wilt out of the 14 year "Wilt-era", and the scoring record was 35.6 ppg (by a SF.) And even after Chamberlain, the highest scoring seasons have been MJ's 37.1 ppg and Kobe's 35.4 ppg (once again, on a few years ago.)

Do you honestly believe that anyone in the world, in 1959, would have believed an NBA player capable of 50 ppg...or averaging 40 ppg in seven straight seasons? And again, aside from Wilt himself, and IN the Wilt-era, NO ONE else came close. The highest scoring season, by a center, in the Chamberlain-era, sans Wilt, was Kareem's 34.8 ppg (and McAdoo put up a 34.5 ppg two years after Wilt retired.) After that, Kareem's 31.7 ppg, Bellamy's 31.6 ppg, and McAdoo's 31.5 ppg. All in, or around the Wilt era.

Yet, Chamberlain was LIGHT YEARS ahead of ANYONE else. Why? Why only Wilt? And before someone chimes in about the "early 60's"...keep in mind that Wilt was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg (on 60% shooting BTW), in as late as his 11th season (before tearing up his knee.) Or that just the year before (68-69), when SI ran article claiming that Chamberlain could no longer score, he proceeded to demolish the league over the course of 17 straight games, averaging 31.1 ppg in that span, which included TWO games of 60 and 66 points.

We can all speculate...but to say that no center could average 35 ppg in today's NBA is just that...pure speculation. Aside from Wilt, no other center ever averaged 35 ppg in ANY era, either.

And I think you may be underestimating Wilt's range, quickness, and post moves, too. He was not some frankenstein just dunking on the helpless, but rather had solid range up to 15+ ft. And please don't bring up the zones or double-teams that he would face today, either. He was ROUTINELY playing against them in HIS era.

And, I also counter the "pace" arguments, with the fact that Wilt was outshooting the league averages by 100+ points in his career. He shot .506 in a league that shot .426. He shot .528 in a league that shot .441. He shot .540 in a league that shot .433. Then, he exploded with margins of .595 in a .446 NBA. And .683 in an NBA that shot .441. And in his last season, he shot .727 in a league that shot .456. There is simply no way that Wilt would shoot .506 (as in his 50 ppg season), or .528 (in his 45 ppg season) in leagues that shot much higher. And today's FG%'s are deceptive, too, because they are driven down by more 3pt shooting. The eFG% are miles ahead of what they were in Chamberlain's era.

You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. We will never know for sure...but what we do know, is that Wilt was the ONLY player EVER to put up his historic numbers. And to claim that since "so-and-so" could only score 30 ppg...then that means that Wilt could only score 30, ...is really making a claim that there should have been many players scoring 40-50 ppg in Wilt's era. And yet a PRIME, shot-jacking, Kareem, who played four years IN the Wilt-era, couldn't come within the other side of the Pacific Ocean of that feat.

[julizaver]

Chamberlain also had a known 17 blocks in three games, of a five game series, against the Bucks in the '71 playoffs, and 8 of them were against Kareem. And, the recaps credited Chamberlain with "numerous" blocks in game two of that series.

Of those 33 known blocks in the '72 WCF's , covering four of the six games, against the Bucks, Wilt had 15 just against Kareem.

So, in the known seven of the 11 playoff games against the Bucks in '71 and '72, Chamberlain had 50 blocked shots...and 23 were against Kareem. And, that does not include the "numerous" blocks in game two of the '71 WCF's, nor any of his blocks in the other two games.

I believe ThaRegul8r had Chamberlain at over 7 bpg in the '72 Finals (and Wilt either had 9 or 10 in the clinching game five win.) So, I am pretty confident, then, that in his five Finals games, he had at least 35 blocks.

So that means that we now have Chamberlain with at LEAST 50 blocks in the two WCF's against the Bucks, and 35 more in the '72 Finals. Add in your 72 known blocks in the first ten playoff games of '73, and he now has at LEAST 157...just in a TOTAL of 22 playoff games.

I'm sure we could dig up quite a few more, but just off the top of my head, Wilt had 12 blocks in game one of the '67 ECF's (a QUAD double game of 24-32-13-12.) He also had seven blocks in the clinching game five of that series (a 29-36-13-7 game.) That brings his known totals to 176 in 24 playoff games.

I believe he was alson credited with 11 blocks in game seven of the '70 playoff series against the Suns (a 30-27-11 game) in a comeback from a 3-1 series deficit. So, now we are up to 187 known blocks in just 25 playoff games (7.5 bpg), and most all of them in the latter part of his career (with the exceptions of those two games in the '67 ECF's.)

Keep in mind that Wilt played in 160 post-season games, and yet, in just 25 of those games, he is already up to 187 known (or reasonably well known) career blocks....which now moves him up to...get this...19th ALL-TIME.

Then, think about this...those 187 blocks would put him 289 behind the all-time leader (Kareem, and in 237 games.) So, all Wilt would have had to have averaged in his 135 other post-season games, was 2.2 bpg to have had a career record of 484.

I'm sure you and I could dig up other known playoff games in which Chamberlain recorded blocks, too. I have even read recaps in which he blocked four shots within a matter of seconds...and in games in which there was no known total.

The real question then, would be, how many blocks did Russell have in his 165 post-season games,. and whether or not, he, or Chamberlain, are the ACTUAL leaders? In any case, it is a 99.9% certainty that they are #1 and #2 all-time.

I had a more precise research, but since I lost it (unfortunately) I have to look at some of my old files. I have Wilt blocking 476 shots in 63 playoff games and 330 as a Laker in 42 games. But as for 1972 finals I include only the last game (10 blocks) - I did not have the info Psileas have and this is only accordingly to data collected by myself.

Anyway congrats to Tim. :)

[ThaRegul8r]

I believe ThaRegul8r had Chamberlain at over 7 bpg in the '72 Finals (and Wilt either had 9 or 10 in the clinching game five win.) So, I am pretty confident, then, that in his five Finals games, he had at least 35 blocks.

1) 7.4 blocks per game to be precise.
2) Yes, Wilt had 10 blocks in the clincher
3) In his five Finals games Wilt had a total of 37 blocked shots

[nycelt84]

I always wondered why the NBA never recorded steals or blocks in those days. Is basketball the only major only sport not to record an important stat like that? They recorded assists. Did they not value defense?

No they did not in the years before and when Russell first started out points scored was viewed by far as the most important stat. Some papers only listed points and shots taken in their box scores.

[julizaver]

1) 7.4 blocks per game to be precise.
2) Yes, Wilt had 10 blocks in the clincher
3) In his five Finals games Wilt had a total of 37 blocked shots

Thanks for the info.
Is there any other game from that finals when Wilt blocked 10 or more ?

[Psileas]

I had a more precise research, but since I lost it (unfortunately) I have to look at some of my old files. I have Wilt blocking 476 shots in 63 playoff games and 330 as a Laker in 42 games. But as for 1972 finals I include only the last game (10 blocks) - I did not have the info Psileas have and this is only accordingly to data collected by myself.

Anyway congrats to Tim. :)

I guess these are random, scattered games and it's only a coincidence that the 476 figure happens to be the official playoff record, right?
In other words, this isn't the number of playoff games Wilt needed to get to 476 blocks from the beginning of his career (prior to 1967, with the exception of 1965, it's tough to find blocked shots' estimations for many of Wilt's playoff games), correct?

[jlauber]

I guess these are random, scattered games and it's only a coincidence that the 476 figure happens to be the official playoff record, right?
In other words, this isn't the number of playoff games Wilt needed to get to 476 blocks from the beginning of his career (prior to 1967, with the exception of 1965, it's tough to find blocked shots' estimations for many of Wilt's playoff games), correct?

I have no doubt that his numbers are spot on, though. I believe he was the very first person to post the Kareem-Wilt career H2H's, and are now widely used on the internet.

Too bad he lost some, or much, of his data. In any case, I'm sure you will agree that Wilt with 476 blocks in 63 playoff games, and 330 in 42 of his Laker playoff games are probably pretty accurate, as well.

Which is interesting...Chamberlain had as many blocks, in only 63 of his 160 post-season games, as Kareem did in his known 220 known playoff games (out of his 237 total.)

Incidently, I have no doubt that your numbers on Wilt's blocks in his last regular season (something along 5-6 bpg) are also pretty accurate. And what is interesting, is that Thurmond and Kareem were considered excellent shot blockers, but, in the very next season, when the NBA officially recorded them, Kareem came in at 3.5 and Nate at 2.9 bpg. Which leads me to believe that Chamberlain was probably doubling their numbers even in his last season.

And given the fact that Kareem would post a 4.6 bpg season in the late 70's...I see no reason why Chamberlain would not have been capable of 6-7+ bpg even in that era. And considering that FGAs were not much more then, than what we have had in the current NBA...I think Wilt's bpg would translate quite well in THIS era. Especially since we just had Ibaka with a 3.7 bpg season, and in only 27 mpg.

[Punpun]

Duncan is about to be piggy rided to another championship. That'd be the second. A bit like Wilt.

:oldlol:

[jlauber]

Duncan is about to be piggy rided to another championship. That'd be the second. A bit like Wilt.

:oldlol:

The Wilt who DOMINATED in the '67 Finals (and surely would have won the FMVP had the award existed)...or the Chamberlain who WON the FMVP in '72?

[Punpun]

That one indeed. Got piggyrided by the Lakers.

[jlauber]

That one indeed. Got piggyrided by the Lakers.

Yeah...that one. All he did in that series was post a 19.4 ppg, 23.2 rpg, 2.6 apg, 7.4 bpg, .600 FG% Finals, while his second best teammate, Jerry West shot .325 in that Finals.

Of course, Wilt, as always, "choked" badly in the clinching game five, when, playing with two badly injured wrists (one FRACTURED), he put up a 24 point game, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds (the ENTIRE NY team had 39 BTW), and 10 blocks (while West shot 10-28, and Goodrich shot 6-18.)

[Punpun]

>less than 20 ppg
>Not getting piggyrided

:oldlol::roll::oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

Duncan is about to be piggy rided to another championship. That'd be the second. A bit like Wilt.

:oldlol:

And is this even a real term? Piggy rided? What? :confusedshrug:

[jlauber]

>less than 20 ppg
>Not getting piggyrided

:oldlol::roll::oldlol:


Yep. I'm sure even Russell's teammates would agree with you, too. They carried Russell to 11 titles. In fact, how can the FMVP award be named after a player who was "piggy rided" so often in his career?

[Punpun]

I agree with you. Russel's 9 HOF team-mates piggyrided him.

[CavaliersFTW]

>less than 20 ppg
>Not getting piggyrided

:oldlol::roll::oldlol:
he was finals MVP dumbass :oldlol:

[Punpun]

They had to give him one. Would have tarnished the NBA's legacy. :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I have no doubt that his numbers are spot on, though. I believe he was the very first person to post the Kareem-Wilt career H2H's, and are now widely used on the internet.

Too bad he lost some, or much, of his data. In any case, I'm sure you will agree that Wilt with 476 blocks in 63 playoff games, and 330 in 42 of his Laker playoff games are probably pretty accurate, as well.

Which is interesting...Chamberlain had as many blocks, in only 63 of his 160 post-season games, as Kareem did in his known 220 known playoff games (out of his 237 total.)

Incidently, I have no doubt that your numbers on Wilt's blocks in his last regular season (something along 5-6 bpg) are also pretty accurate. And what is interesting, is that Thurmond and Kareem were considered excellent shot blockers, but, in the very next season, when the NBA officially recorded them, Kareem came in at 3.5 and Nate at 2.9 bpg. Which leads me to believe that Chamberlain was probably doubling their numbers even in his last season.

And given the fact that Kareem would post a 4.6 bpg season in the late 70's...I see no reason why Chamberlain would not have been capable of 6-7+ bpg even in that era. And considering that FGAs were not much more then, than what we have had in the current NBA...I think Wilt's bpg would translate quite well in THIS era. Especially since we just had Ibaka with a 3.7 bpg season, and in only 27 mpg.http://www.kshs.org/people/graphics/chamberlain_wilt.jpg
http://phillysportshistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/wilt.jpg
http://media.nj.com/realtimesports_impact/photo/wilt-chamberlain-2jpg-a6350cea263289f1.jpg
http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/wilt-athlete.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/1004/ncaab.great.title.games/images/1957-wilt-chamberlain-076712304.jpg
http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2010/01/18/wilt_chamberlain_bkc_1956_nw0001_t460.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/1004/consecutive.nba.mvps/images/wilt.jpg

[Odinn]

he was finals MVP dumbass :oldlol:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=230875

[Punpun]

>Ignoring the truth

How fitting. :oldlol:

[Psileas]

I have no doubt that his numbers are spot on, though. I believe he was the very first person to post the Kareem-Wilt career H2H's, and are now widely used on the internet.

Too bad he lost some, or much, of his data. In any case, I'm sure you will agree that Wilt with 476 blocks in 63 playoff games, and 330 in 42 of his Laker playoff games are probably pretty accurate, as well.

Which is interesting...Chamberlain had as many blocks, in only 63 of his 160 post-season games, as Kareem did in his known 220 known playoff games (out of his 237 total.)

Incidently, I have no doubt that your numbers on Wilt's blocks in his last regular season (something along 5-6 bpg) are also pretty accurate. And what is interesting, is that Thurmond and Kareem were considered excellent shot blockers, but, in the very next season, when the NBA officially recorded them, Kareem came in at 3.5 and Nate at 2.9 bpg. Which leads me to believe that Chamberlain was probably doubling their numbers even in his last season.

And given the fact that Kareem would post a 4.6 bpg season in the late 70's...I see no reason why Chamberlain would not have been capable of 6-7+ bpg even in that era. And considering that FGAs were not much more then, than what we have had in the current NBA...I think Wilt's bpg would translate quite well in THIS era. Especially since we just had Ibaka with a 3.7 bpg season, and in only 27 mpg.

I don't post from my pc these days, but yes, my own Wilt data and actual estimations include several dozens of his games. I do remember having accumulated his totals for about 17 r.s games in 1972, and the average was around 7.5-8.0, so a figure around 7 bpg seems reasonable, along with a similar one in the playoffs. In 1973, it seems like he averaged around 5.5 bpg in the r.s and between 6.0 and 7.0 in the playoffs. The random game averages from all his seasons were giving him between 8.0 and 9.0 bpg in both regular season and playoffs.


That one indeed. Got piggyrided by the Lakers.

If not averaging 30 ppg or not leading your team in scoring is piggyriding, then Magic and Russell were great at it during their whole careers.

[Punpun]

Especially Russell indeed.

[Psileas]

double post.

[jlauber]

http://www.kshs.org/people/graphics/chamberlain_wilt.jpg
http://phillysportshistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/wilt.jpg
http://media.nj.com/realtimesports_impact/photo/wilt-chamberlain-2jpg-a6350cea263289f1.jpg
http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/wilt-athlete.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/1004/ncaab.great.title.games/images/1957-wilt-chamberlain-076712304.jpg
http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2010/01/18/wilt_chamberlain_bkc_1956_nw0001_t460.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/1004/consecutive.nba.mvps/images/wilt.jpg

I'm too lazy to post pics of the scrawny Steve Nash, who could win an assist title at age 38. Or 6-11 bogut, who won a bpg title two years ago. Or the 6-9 Kevin Love, who ran away with the rebounding title two years ago. Or the goofy looking Kyle Korver, who set a 3pt FG% record a couple years ago.

All four would fit right in with those photos you posted.

[Punpun]

Oh come on Jlauer. Those four guys would be GODS in that era.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm too lazy to post pics of the scrawny Steve Nash, who could win an assist title at age 38. Or 6-11 bogut, who won a bpg title two years ago. Or the 6-9 Kevin Love, who ran away with the rebounding title two years ago. Or the goofy looking Kyle Korver, who set a 3pt FG% record a couple years ago.

All four would fit right in with those photos you posted.
Steve Nash isn't scrawny
Bogut is big
Love is big
Korver can shoot

:facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

Steve Nash isn't scrawny
Bogut is big
Love is big
Korver can shoot

:facepalm
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/125/1/e/gus_johnson_dunk_by_dantheman9758-d4yocdj.gif

[jlauber]

I don't post from my pc these days, but yes, my own Wilt data and actual estimations include several dozens of his games. I do remember having accumulated his totals for about 17 r.s games in 1972, and the average was around 7.5-8.0, so a figure around 7 bpg seems reasonable, along with a similar one in the playoffs. In 1973, it seems like he averaged around 5.5 bpg in the r.s and between 6.0 and 7.0 in the playoffs. The random game averages from all his seasons were giving him between 8.0 and 9.0 bpg in both regular season and playoffs.



If not averaging 30 ppg or not leading your team in scoring is piggyriding, then Magic and Russell were great at it during their whole careers.

I either listened to, or watched EVERY Laker game in that '72 season, and Chick Hearn would almost always mention Wilt's block numbers after every game. Of course I can't recall every game, but I can guarantee you, that he was blocking 10+ in many of them. And while Rosen has Wilt with "only" a high game of 15 that season, I still swear that he had 17 in one game.

In any case, Chamberlain with 1000 career post-season blocks is probably a VERY conservative estimate. And, as you well know, Harvey Pollack had educated estimates of Wilt averaging as many as 10+ bpg over the course of some SEASONS. And I can think of at least three games in which Chamberlain was credited with 20+ blocks (one on a nationally televised game in 1968, in which he blocked 23 shots.) And I suspect that he had quite a few more.

[Punpun]

So ? :oldlol:

[jlauber]

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/125/1/e/gus_johnson_dunk_by_dantheman9758-d4yocdj.gif

Gus Johnson was a monster.

[SuperPippen]

Just letting you guys know, punpun is a trolling Kobe-stan.
Don't waste your time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You want GIFs? Oh you want GIFs?

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

[Punpun]

Just letting you guys know, punpun is a trolling Kobe-stan.
Don't waste your time.

>Kobe-stan
>Trolling

Oh my. Even tough my favorite player is Lebron ? :lol

[MiseryCityTexas]

Greatest player after Jordan, no doubt.


I wouldn't say all that, but i would rate Duncan over Kobe, no doubt.

[CavaliersFTW]

You want GIFs? Oh you want GIFs?
http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/138/7/f/russdunkolympics_by_dantheman9758-d506gc1.gif
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/125/1/e/gus_johnson_dunk_by_dantheman9758-d4yocdj.gif
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/129/8/e/joecaldwelldunk_by_dantheman9758-d4z2t0x.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

You want GIFs? Oh you want GIFs?

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/603754/kobe-pau-fail2.gif

:roll:

[julizaver]

I guess these are random, scattered games and it's only a coincidence that the 476 figure happens to be the official playoff record, right?
In other words, this isn't the number of playoff games Wilt needed to get to 476 blocks from the beginning of his career (prior to 1967, with the exception of 1965, it's tough to find blocked shots' estimations for many of Wilt's playoff games), correct?

Yes, it is a coincidence and small mistake. That is what MS EXCEL shows. :)
The games are: 1 from 1962 (against Hawks) - 12 blocks
1 from 1964 (against Hawks) - 12 blocks
1965 - 6 games - 38 blocks
1967 - 11 games - 90 blocks
1968 - 1 game - 7 blocks
1969 - 8 games - 69 blocks (13 in a Game 1 of the Finals against Celtics :) )
1970 - 7 games - 61 blocks
1971 - 6 games - 48 blocks
1972 - 11 games - 86 blocks (with the ThaRegul8r info 37 blocks in 5 games against Knicks- otherwise 7 games - 59 blocks)
1973 - 13 games - 90 blocks

A total of 513 blocks in 65 games. Without ThaRegul8r data for 1972 Finals - 486 blocks in 61 games.

As I wrote earlier it is not precise, BUT for sure I do not include a games in which "Wilt blocked numerous shots, several from Alcindor" or "Wilt blocked 2 shots at the end", it was only when a number is written or have an info like Wilt blocked a dozen shots (then it is 12).