Playoff Tim Duncan outplayed Shaq head to head during Shaq's prime

[iamgine]

Duncan vs Shaq playoff H2H from 1999-2003. Despite Shaq having more rings, he was severely outplayed by Timmy D during Shaq's absolute prime.

19 games

Duncan

27 PPG 56 TS%
13 Rebounds
4.3 Assists
2.5 Blocks


Shaq

24 PPG 53.6 TS%
13 Rebounds
2.6 Assists
2.3 Blocks


How can we say Shaq is definitely > Tim Duncan with the above being the case? If anything Tim Duncan > Shaq or at least they're equal.

[Smoke117]

Except for the fact that David Robinson defended Shaq and jobbers like AC Green (who Rasheed Wallace absolutely destroyed in the 2000 WCF) and washed up fools like Horace Grant defended Tim Duncan. So yeah...you fail.

[Force]

Shaquille drew the defense a lot more. It took entire teams to try to guard Shaq. Both all the time greats but Shaq at his best was significantly a bigger problem to the opposition.

[iamgine]

Except for the fact that David Robinson defended Shaq and jobbers like AC Green (who Rasheed Wallace absolutely destroyed in the 2000 WCF) and washed up fools like Horace Grant defended Tim Duncan. So yeah...you fail.
That's Shaq's absolute prime numbers being guarded by old crippled DRob? Hmm very non-dominant like.

[rzp]

Shaq was double/tripled while TD was solo'ed by LAL crappy PF's.

Only at end of games it was a true 1vs1

U fail

[Smoke117]

That's Shaq's absolute prime numbers being guarded by old crippled DRob? Hmm very non-dominant like.

He wasn't old and crippled, idiot. He led the league in drating 98-2000. He was an able and great defender every year until he retired and the only year you could say he was "crippled" was his last season when his back had become a huge problem for him. Don't speak about things you know nothing about.

[MaxFly]

Duncan vs Shaq playoff H2H from 1999-2003. Despite Shaq having more rings, he was severely outplayed by Timmy D during Shaq's absolute prime.

19 games

Duncan

27 PPG 56 TS%
13 Rebounds
4.3 Assists
2.5 Blocks


Shaq

24 PPG 53.6 TS%
13 Rebounds
2.6 Assists
2.3 Blocks


How can we say Shaq is definitely > Tim Duncan with the above being the case? If anything Tim Duncan > Shaq or at least they're equal.

Interesting.... I think it's well known that Shaq didn't play quite as well against some of the Western powers as he did against the finals competition he saw in the early 2000s, largely because the Western powers were better equipped to guard him and were flat out better teams. In all three of those championship runs, the teams the Lakers beat in the Western Conference finals, and in one case, the Semi-Finals, would have beaten the team that came out of the Eastern Conference. I don't know if I would say Tim Duncan has the clear cut advantage in those match ups (I'm assuming your stats are correct), but it's clear that in those match ups, Shaq wasn't playing against Rick Smits, Sam Perkins, an aged Mutombo or Todd MacCulloch.

[shaq's--lakers]

David Robinson and Tim Duncan vs Shaq and Ac Green

It is more impressive that Shaq had those numbers against that front line then anything

24 PPG 53.6 TS%
13 Rebounds
2.6 Assists
2.3 Blocks

[necya]

Duncan vs Shaq playoff H2H from 1999-2003. Despite Shaq having more rings, he was severely outplayed by Timmy D during Shaq's absolute prime.

19 games

Duncan

27 PPG 56 TS%
13 Rebounds
4.3 Assists
2.5 Blocks


Shaq

24 PPG 53.6 TS%
13 Rebounds
2.6 Assists
2.3 Blocks


How can we say Shaq is definitely > Tim Duncan with the above being the case? If anything Tim Duncan > Shaq or at least they're equal.

how can you conclude this with the little things you brought above ? :facepalm

[Nick Young]

Shaq always beat Duncan

[francesco totti]

Shaq had Kobe, which was difference making vs duncan in the matchups.

Not saying kobe was the man on that lakers team, it was shaq's team..but kobe gave too much help that no one on san antonio gave to duncan

[francesco totti]

Also correction to OP, Duncan has 4 rings as much as shaq. And he has as many finals MVP like him.

[eliteballer]

Shaq had Robinson and Duncan doubling him....Duncan had Samaki Walker. The Lakers also generally ran a lot more of the offense through Kobe because he had a greater advantage.

Take out that TS crap....Shaq's FTs will hurt him when at the same time getting the opposition in foul trouble was a huge asset

[NBASTATMAN]

Shaq was double/tripled while TD was solo'ed by LAL crappy PF's.

Only at end of games it was a true 1vs1

U fail


This is true and Shaq usually did a great job of defending Duncan at the end of games...

[aj242]

Shaq had Robinson and Duncan doubling him....Duncan had Samaki Walker. The Lakers also generally ran a lot more of the offense through Kobe because he had a greater advantage.

Take out that TS crap....Shaq's FTs will hurt him when at the same time getting the opposition in foul trouble was a huge asset

Maybe Shaq Attack can prove me wrong but I always have said that Dave guarded Shaq better then anyone.

For sure Shaq gave Dave some monster facials! However he kept him under 30 more then anyone else. That includes Dream.

[bluechox2]

robinson retired in 99

[iamgine]

Shaq had Robinson and Duncan doubling him....Duncan had Samaki Walker. The Lakers also generally ran a lot more of the offense through Kobe because he had a greater advantage.

Take out that TS crap....Shaq's FTs will hurt him when at the same time getting the opposition in foul trouble was a huge asset
They had about the same # of FTA.

[iamgine]

Also correction to OP, Duncan has 4 rings as much as shaq. And he has as many finals MVP like him.
I meant during 1999-2003.

[Odinn]

If he had a mental toughness like Hakeem or Shaq, DRob could be a top 5 center ever. As for individuality, he was one of the best ever. Before his back injury, in his matchups against Shaq, there was not much to discuss about which one is the better one. He had a chance to be top 5 Cs ever or top 10 ever but he was too soft.

---

As for OP, I do not think it's safe to say DRob slowed down Shaq for entire 1999-2003 span. I mean, he was injured and played 71 minutes for entire series in 2002. And he averaged only 21 mpg in 2003 series.

Of course Shaq drew more attention and got more doubled, and in 2004 series (which is the series the two matched up most) Duncan really struggled against Shaq's huge body. Duncan dominated first 2 games but after that, the winner of that matchup was Shaq and the winner of that series was Fisher's shot. IMO, It was Duncan's worst playoff series during his prime.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Robinson was the primary defender on Shaq in '99, '01 and '03. Malik Rose also guarded Shaq at times. Shaq usually wasn't guarding Duncan, it was Horace Grant in '01, Horry and Samaki Walker at times.

They guarded each other at times, but the only series they spent a significant time defending each other was '02. And neither played well offensively in that series. Shaq had several injuries, and Duncan didn't have help so it's understandable in both cases. Duncan did most of his damage on Horry and Walker earlier in games.

As far as who was the better player in their series with LA/San Antonio.

1999- Duncan
2001- Shaq
2002- Pretty much even, both struggled in the 4th quarters offensively, though both played good defense on each other. Neither of them had good efficiency. Shaq shot a surprisingly low 44.7%, while Duncan also had poor efficiency despite big raw numbers(42.5 FG%, 4.6 TO)
2003- Duncan
2004- Shaq

'04 wasn't really his prime('03 was slightly past his prime), but included both anyway, particularly since this starts from just Duncan's second year.

As far as who was the better player in each of these seasons.

1999- Duncan
2001- Shaq
2002- Shaq
2003- Duncan
2004- Duncan

Karl Malone guarded Duncan most of the time in 2004, and Rasho was defending Shaq a lot that series, iirc. Neither were guarded 1 on 1 most of the time, which was usually the case during that era, particularly Shaq, but people shouldn't forget that Duncan was doubled a lot in his prime as well. Not quite as much, but it's not really a surprise since Duncan was more of an elite defensive player who was also a very good scorer, while Shaq was an elite scorer who could also make an impact defensively, and Tim typically played with better shooters which can affect how much you're doubled. Look at the '03 Spurs/Suns series. Duncan was doubled a ton by the Suns, but he made the right passes and that led to Stephen Jackson having 3 or 4 20+ games




robinson retired in 99

He had a better year in 2000 than 1999. He remained one of the top 5 defensive players in the league, and averaged 18/10 with 2.3 bpg and 1.2 spg on 51% in 2000, and led the Spurs in scoring during the second half of the season at 20.9 ppg and also averaged 22/9 in 8 games without Duncan.

An elite defensive big man capable of 20/10 shouldn't be dismissed, he was still a top 15 player in 2000, I have him at 13.

He remained a top 5 defensive player through 2001, also averaged 14/9, 2.5 bpg in 30 mpg during that season and 17/12 with 2+ bpg in the 2001 playoffs in just 32 mpg. And was still one of the top 20 players in the league.

Twin towers Robinson gets underrated, he was still considered a big name player at the time, he was headed towards role player status due to age and injuries in '02, and certainly his last year, but he was an all-star caliber player his first 4 years with Duncan.



If he had a mental toughness like Hakeem or Shaq, DRob could be a top 5 center ever. As for individuality, he was one of the best ever. Before his back injury, in his matchups against Shaq, there was not much to discuss about which one is the better one. He had a chance to be top 5 Cs ever or top 10 ever but he was too soft.

Robinson's mentality was questionable in the playoffs, he seemed to play softer and drive less, and other than his unmatched ability to run the floor for his size, his drives to the basket facing up were what he relied on to score, other than an elbow jumper once in a while.

But outside of mentality, skill set was a problem, at least offensively, he simply didn't have a very good back to the basket game, which is why I don't think his offensive game translated as well to the playoffs. The other great offensive centers all had at least a go to move, and usually a counter move or 2. But Robinson really didn't have the go to move.

Part of it was the Spurs fault. They didn't build around him properly for the most part, he had some talent around him, but they build around him or designed most of the teams in a way that required Robinson to average 25+, and I just don't think he was comfortable doing that in the playoffs. It's not surprise to me that his best playoff run came in his rookie season when they had Terry Cummings as just as much of the focal point offensively and leading the Spurs in playoff scoring at 25 per game.

Other than that, his defensive was phenomenal, he became a very good passer particularly from the high post, and he was a strong rebounder with a solid face up jumper and unbelievable athleticism. He was better off averaging in the low 20 ppg range and focusing on anchoring the defense. That was where he really excelled.

He was still regularly around one of the top 5 players in the league for almost a decade.

[Big#50]

These two beasts are top five players ever. All you young boys missed out seeing these larger than life characters dominate on the court. YouTube doesn't count. You had to be there live.