And now, only one senior al Qaeda leader left

[-p.tiddy-]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/opinion/bergen-al-qaeda-whos-left/index.html?hpt=hp_c1


Washington (CNN) -- The news that Abu Yahya al-Libi, the No.2 leader of al Qaeda, is now confirmed to have been killed in a CIA drone strike in Pakistan's tribal region along the border with Afghanistan further underlines that the terrorist group that launched the 9/11 attacks is now more or less out of business.

Under President Barack Obama, CIA drone strikes have killed 15 of the most important players in al Qaeda, according to a count maintained by the New America Foundation (a nonpartisan think tank where I am a director).

Similarly, President George W. Bush also authorized drone strikes that killed 16 important al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan while he was in office.


Amazing...Al Queda days are actually numbered...I didn't think that was possible

we have taken out all their leaders...they have no direction, no unity

http://bushtelegraph.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/drone2bstrike.jpg

[bagelred]

:rolleyes: Al Quada doesn't even exist....creation of the CIA.

I guess Al Quada "won", eh? They managed to steal trillions of our dollars thru the Military Industrial Complex.........good job.

[-p.tiddy-]

:rolleyes: Al Quada doesn't even exist....creation of the CIA.

:facepalm

[bagelred]

:facepalm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk

[Meticode]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk
Damn, you should get out of the U.S. before the government kills you yo.

[bagelred]

Damn, you should get out of the U.S. before the government kills you yo.

Now you're being ridiculous. Let's not go crazy with the conspiracy......hold on, there's knock at the door........

Hello?....who are you guys?......what the???.........hey, get off me man!.......somebody call the.......don't tase me, bro!!!.........somebody HEEEEEEEEEEELP.......


****SUICIDED****

[Real Men Wear Green]

They've killed the #2 guy in al Qaeda something like 50 times. I think that's one promotion people should maybe rethink accepting.

[Rasheed1]

Remember the base that was supposedly hidden in a cave?:roll:

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif

the lies they come up with are truly incredible sometimes.

[-p.tiddy-]

They've killed the #2 guy in al Qaeda something like 50 times. I think that's one promotion people should maybe rethink accepting.
I can remember one other time...

someone has to take their place...now that this one has been killed, there is already another "#2 guy"



Zawahiri is now the #1 guy once Bin Laden was killed...supposedly he is the last of the "senior leaders"

[bagelred]

Remember the base that was supposedly hidden in a cave?:roll:

the lies they up are truly incredible sometimes.

:roll: :roll: This is gold. How can anyone honestly believe this?

[Meticode]

Do you think it's time for the people to overthrow their government? The United States people that is.

[-p.tiddy-]

Do you think it's time for the people to overthrow their government? The United States people that is.
This decade + long Al Queda act to control our minds has got to end!!!

[-p.tiddy-]

I have actually met and interacted with members of al-Qaeda. So unless they were plants...
acting

all staged

[bagelred]

This decade + long Al Queda act to control our minds has got to end!!!

It really does.......impossible though.

[Meticode]

Damn those actors that blow themselves up. :pimp:

[-p.tiddy-]

Damn those actors that blow themselves up. :pimp:
the gov uses CG dawg, duh :rolleyes:

[Rasheed1]

They are Muhajadeen Soldiers... Alot of them are guys the US used to fund when they were fighting against Russia in the Afghan war..

There is no terrorist network with sleeper cells being controlled by some leader in a cave somewhere..

[Jailblazers7]

Remember the base that was supposedly hidden in a cave?:roll:

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif

the lies they come up with are truly incredible sometimes.

Thats some Bond villan type shit there.

[-p.tiddy-]

They are Muhajadeen Soldiers... Alot of them are guys the US used to fund when they were fighting against Russia in the Afghan war..

There is no terrorist network with sleeper cells being controlled by some leader in a cave somewhere..
Al Qadea is real, not made up...have been around since the 80s

amazing to me that anyone could think this entire thing has all been staged and the entire world has been fooled by this...including Afghanistan and Pakistan who both acknowledge the existence of Al Qaeda


the family memebers of Bin Laden accept it as fact...but YOU don't :facepalm

[Rasheed1]

Al Qadea is real, not made up...have been around since the 80s

amazing to me that anyone could think this entire thing has all been staged and the entire world has been fooled by this...including Afghanistan and Pakistan who both acknowledge the existence of Al Qaeda


the family memebers of Bin Laden accept it as fact...but YOU don't :facepalm


:facepalm You're a fool..This not news to me though... Read some history and you'll understand why all of that is the case.

The OP even posted a video that basically explains it all....

[-p.tiddy-]

:facepalm You're a fool..This not news to me though... Read some history and you'll understand why all of that is the case.

The OP even posted a video that basically explains it all....
I am the OP :oldlol:

[Rasheed1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk
^^^^^

Sorry I thought Baglered started this thread... I actually skipped over your original post... :oldlol:

[-p.tiddy-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6GWIyMx_D4


better vid ^^^

[Rasheed1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6GWIyMx_D4


better vid ^^^


This isnt about 911 .. This is about Al Qaeda... I thought you were the OP? :oldlol:

[-p.tiddy-]

This isnt about 911 .. This is about Al Qaeda... I thought you were the OP? :oldlol:
oh right...I forgot Al Qaeda didn't do 911...my bad, that was off topic

[-p.tiddy-]

back on topic:

http://www.potts-law.com/images/stories/paxil.jpg


Bagelred and Sheed, take the green one

[Rasheed1]

oh right...I forgot Al Qaeda didn't do 911...my bad, that was off topic

indeed... and you would understand why if you at least watch that video.

[sick_brah07]

so the whole time they were looking in moutains and caves they forgot to look at bin ladens house :oldlol:

[n00bie]

People still believe Al Qaeda were responsible for 9/11?!?!

Hasn't it been proven countless times that it's not? :facepalm

[LamarOdom]

People still believe Al Qaeda were responsible for 9/11?!?!

Hasn't it been proven countless times that it's not? :facepalm

What you gon say US blew up their own buildings with bombs from inside to kill a couple of thousands of their OWN people? please tell me more why they would do that.

[millwad]

Haha, all these Al Qaeda leaders... :oldlol:

These nonsense wars killed so many iraqi's and afghan's, yet all we hear is 9/11 this and that.. All those innocent iraqi's and afghan's for some Al Qaeda leaders, was it worth it? :facepalm

The world is just waiting for the US to start yet another war like the one in Iraq for no reason, and then as usual the rest of the world have to clean up the mess.

[jbot]

What you gon say US blew up their own buildings with bombs from inside to kill a couple of thousands of their OWN people? please tell me more why they would do that.

what better reason to go to war than to have a massive attack on our own soil? hell, look what we did to japan when they bombed pearl harbor. we didn't drop atomic bombs on germany now did we?

war = big $$$$ for private companies supplying arms and the people who invest in those companies. not to mention the oil in the middle east too.

[miller-time]

What you gon say US blew up their own buildings with bombs from inside to kill a couple of thousands of their OWN people? please tell me more why they would do that.

false flag scenario. which would be pointless because they used the WMD storyline to enter iraq anyway.. no need to take down the towers.

[-p.tiddy-]

Bush Sr attacked Iraq with no attacks or WMDs needed.

Conspiracy theorists can be embarrassingly stupid...this subject really shows who has a strong grip on the reality of the world and what humans are capable of and who lives in YouTube fantasy land.

It also shows you who has never been a functioning piece in a large corporation before...

[KevinNYC]

what better reason to go to war than to have a massive attack on our own soil? hell, look what we did to japan when they bombed pearl harbor. we didn't drop atomic bombs on germany now did we?


Yeah, I wonder why we didn't use the atomic bomb against Germany. (http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/mp/chronology.shtml)? Could it be that the atomic bomb didn't exist until two months after Germany's surrender? Nah.


February 2, 1945
Los Alamos receives its first plutonium.

March 1945
S-50 begins operation at Oak Ridge.

March 12,1945
K-25 begins production at Oak Ridge.

May 7, 1945
The German armed forces in Europe surrender to the Allies.

July 16, 1945
Los Alamos scientists successfully test a plutonium implosion bomb in the Trinity shot at Alamogordo, New Mexico.

August 6, 1945
The gun model uranium bomb, called Little Boy, is dropped on Hiroshima. Truman announces the raid to the American public.

August 9, 1945
The implosion model plutonium bomb, called Fat Man, is dropped on Nagasaki.

[RidonKs]

false flag scenario. which would be pointless because they used the WMD storyline to enter iraq anyway.. no need to take down the towers.
could you argue that's it's easier to start a second war than it is to launch the first?

[KevinNYC]

People still believe Al Qaeda were responsible for 9/11?!?!

Hasn't it been proven countless times that it's not? :facepalm

Um, please enlighten us on the countless times this has been "proven."

[johndeeregreen]

Yeah, I wonder why we didn't use the atomic bomb against Germany. (http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/mp/chronology.shtml)? Could it be that the atomic bomb didn't exist until two months after Germany's surrender? Nah.
Be that as it may, but the fact that Germans were capable of surrender, and weren't brainwashed psychopaths hellbent on killing down to the last man, woman, or child, also played a large role. No need for nuclear weapons when your enemy is willing to accept defeat.

A land invasion of Japan would have been more devastating than the bombs turned out to be, of that, there is absolutely no question.

[KevinNYC]

My explanation is simpler.

[miller-time]

could you argue that's it's easier to start a second war than it is to launch the first?

easier, but i don't think it was necessary. not to go into iraq. they already had the gulf war, the iraq liberation act and subsequently operation desert fox.

i don't buy that they killed thousands of their own people, and destroyed some iconic landmarks, and invaded Afghanistan to start this war.

[RidonKs]

yeah... me neither

[IcanzIIravor]

They are Muhajadeen Soldiers... Alot of them are guys the US used to fund when they were fighting against Russia in the Afghan war..

There is no terrorist network with sleeper cells being controlled by some leader in a cave somewhere..

I think you need to make a distinction between the Taliban, which are almost exclusively Mujahadeen fighters and the generations of kids that followed them and Al Queda, which had a few such Afghan's, but has mostly been a mix of Saudi, Egyptian and others from various Islamic countries or Islamic communities in western countries.

There had been a number of these terror cells before and in the early years after 9/11, but Al Queda has basically been broken and what you have now is a collection of wannabe terrorists and a few terror groups that have been around as long or longer than Al Queda, who had elements get some training in Afghanistan or the horn of Africa.

I think in a number of ways the US overreacted to the threat and created more problems, but the notion that it is some made up conspiracy by the USA strikes me as foolish considering I've spent most of the last 11 years on the end side of this conflict.

The whole key from the beginning has been Al Zawahiri. I will assume you have studied his background from his time in Egypt to his hooking up with OBL and influencing him. If you know anything about Ayman Al Zawahiri you know he is/was never on the take for the USA.

[n00bie]

Um, please enlighten us on the countless times this has been "proven."

If you do your own research, you'd realize that 9/11 was full of lies.

Why would a terrorist organization deny involvement after a terrorist act? The whole point of a terrorist organization is to be recognized. If they were 100% responsible for 9/11, they would be PROUD of it, not deny it.

The CIA came up with a list of names that were allegedly pilots of the planes that crashed into the towers.. yet most of those people were found alive and well in other countries. So who really drove the planes into the towers? Are you telling me it's that easy to get into a plane in the U.S. without I.D.? What about the 100s of cameras they have in airports? And why did the U.S. give up so fast on looking into who REALLY flew those planes? We do manhunts for serial killers that kill 5-10 people, and we never give up until we arrest them.. yet these people flew planes into buildings and killed THOUSANDS.. yet they don't seem to care to find the individuals who actually flew those planes.

What about the pentagon? You really believe a plane crashed into that building? Just look at the pictures. There is NO WAY a plane crashed there. Why would the gov't cover that shit up?

It may not have been the U.S. gov't that was responsible for 9/11, but they sure as hell are lying about something.

[Rasheed1]

I think you need to make a distinction between the Taliban, which are almost exclusively Mujahadeen fighters and the generations of kids that followed them and Al Queda, which had a few such Afghan's, but has mostly been a mix of Saudi, Egyptian and others from various Islamic countries or Islamic communities in western countries.

There had been a number of these terror cells before and in the early years after 9/11, but Al Queda has basically been broken and what you have now is a collection of wannabe terrorists and a few terror groups that have been around as long or longer than Al Queda, who had elements get some training in Afghanistan or the horn of Africa.

I think in a number of ways the US overreacted to the threat and created more problems, but the notion that it is some made up conspiracy by the USA strikes me as foolish considering I've spent most of the last 11 years on the end side of this conflict.

The whole key from the beginning has been Al Zawahiri. I will assume you have studied his background from his time in Egypt to his hooking up with OBL and influencing him. If you know anything about Ayman Al Zawahiri you know he is/was never on the take for the USA.


There originally was no Al Qaeda... United States created that term... Bin laden wasnt walking around calling his network 'Al Qaeda'.. We created that word, and they picked up on it. He never had a network... If other groups needed financing, they went to him..

He wasnt their commander, and there was no sleeping network of terrorists ready to awake and do his bidding...

US made that up.

After we created the term? Yeah, then you start seeing terrorists calling themselves Al Qaeda...

It was not an organization created by Bin Laden, and he was never the head of any such organization..

He was simply a financier of jihad terrorist groups. Not the head of a terrorist network gang with tentacles across the globe..

That simply doesnt exist...

[Rasheed1]

Also, think about the so called sleeper cells in this country.. If have been paying attention to these guys, you'll notice that they are disgruntled people who are manipulated by the CIA into commiting terrorism... Government comes up with the bombs and the plans usually....

these guys are terrorists.... But somehow, traditional American terrorism isnt called by its true name...

Blow up an abortion clinic, or fly into a goverment building in Texas (while not being muslim or arab), and that wont be called terrorism...

^Not really a comment on Al Qaeda, but on the suspicious nature of so called war on terror

[KevinNYC]

I think you need to make a distinction between the Taliban, which are almost exclusively Mujahadeen fighters and the generations of kids that followed them and Al Queda, which had a few such Afghan's, but has mostly been a mix of Saudi, Egyptian and others from various Islamic countries or Islamic communities in western countries.

There had been a number of these terror cells before and in the early years after 9/11, but Al Queda has basically been broken and what you have now is a collection of wannabe terrorists and a few terror groups that have been around as long or longer than Al Queda, who had elements get some training in Afghanistan or the horn of Africa.

I think in a number of ways the US overreacted to the threat and created more problems, but the notion that it is some made up conspiracy by the USA strikes me as foolish considering I've spent most of the last 11 years on the end side of this conflict.

The whole key from the beginning has been Al Zawahiri. I will assume you have studied his background from his time in Egypt to his hooking up with OBL and influencing him. If you know anything about Ayman Al Zawahiri you know he is/was never on the take for the USA.

Good post. However the Taliban emerged after the Mujahadeen of the 80's and early 90's. The emerged after the Communist government of Afghanistan fell and civil war among Mujahadeen factions in early 90's. Their first public show of force was in 1994

[IcanzIIravor]

There originally was no Al Qaeda... United States created that term... Bin laden wasnt walking around calling his network 'Al Qaeda'.. We created that word, and they picked up on it. He never had a network... If other groups needed financing, they went to him..

He wasnt their commander, and there was no sleeping network of terrorists ready to awake and do his bidding...

US made that up.

After we created the term? Yeah, then you start seeing terrorists calling themselves Al Qaeda...

It was not an organization created by Bin Laden, and he was never the head of any such organization..

He was simply a financier of jihad terrorist groups. Not the head of a terrorist network gang with tentacles across the globe..

That simply doesnt exist...

Got a credible link to the USA creating Al Qaeda and naming them?

PBS had a fantastic documentary on the origins and history of Al Qaeda.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07272007/alqaeda.html

History Channel has a ton of info on the origin as well.

http://www.history.com/topics/al-qaeda


Ayman Al Zawahiri was/is the root of Al Qaeda. He influenced OBL and OBL was the face of the terror group. I don't think you will find anyone in the know who has said OBL was the mastermind behind the big plots. He was the guy who was the front and he had capable people under him thanks to Al Zawahiri's influence and reputation that commanded respect.

[dunksby]

The US drone attacks is driving the Al Qaeda from the mountains to cities, especially Karachi, Pakistan. They are now a major gang who offer their services in assassination and deal in narcs. Soroush Alvi of Vice has done a very informative and compelling documentary on the issue:
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-vice-guide-to-karachi-part-1

[Rasheed1]

Got a credible link to the USA creating Al Qaeda and naming them?

PBS had a fantastic documentary on the origins and history of Al Qaeda.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07272007/alqaeda.html

History Channel has a ton of info on the origin as well.

http://www.history.com/topics/al-qaeda


Ayman Al Zawahiri was/is the root of Al Qaeda. He influenced OBL and OBL was the face of the terror group. I don't think you will find anyone in the know who has said OBL was the mastermind behind the big plots. He was the guy who was the front and he had capable people under him thanks to Al Zawahiri's influence and reputation that commanded respect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHAwbYpRGkQ

There is also one posted earlier in this thread...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERgMsTvjC0

I also remember reading a few articles on it in BBC back in like 2004 or 05..
If I can find them, I'll post those also.

[Rasheed1]

History Channel has a ton of info on the origin as well.

http://www.history.com/topics/al-qaeda


This history channel link says he was the mastermind of the 911 attacks...... But if you have ever been to the FBI most wanted page and looked at Bin Laden's profile? he was never charged with being responsible for the 911 attacks...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden

FBI officials even admitted that they never charged him with it...

[IcanzIIravor]

This history channel link says he was the mastermind of the 911 attacks...... But if you have ever been to the FBI most wanted page and looked at Bin Laden's profile? he was never charged with being responsible for the 911 attacks...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden

FBI officials even admitted that they never charged him with it...

KSM was the true brains behind 9/11. Think of OBL as the owner, Al Zawahiri as the coach and KSM as the cerebral quarterback or OC. I would wager it is was easier to just say OBL is the brain and nickname the others #2, #3, etc since OBL was the one with the taped comments. Considering your view as well do you also think Al Jazeera is on the take from western governments?

[KevinNYC]

There originally was no Al Qaeda... United States created that term... Bin laden wasnt walking around calling his network 'Al Qaeda'.. We created that word, and they picked up on it. He never had a network... If other groups needed financing, they went to him..

He wasnt their commander, and there was no sleeping network of terrorists ready to awake and do his bidding...

US made that up.

After we created the term? Yeah, then you start seeing terrorists calling themselves Al Qaeda...

It was not an organization created by Bin Laden, and he was never the head of any such organization..

He was simply a financier of jihad terrorist groups. Not the head of a terrorist network gang with tentacles across the globe..

That simply doesnt exist...


This is not true. It's one thing to say Al Qaeda is more fragmented than people understand and that they use a cell like structure and there are now off-shoot groups that are not under direct control like Al Qaeda in Iraq and Al Qaedain the Arabian peninsula. It's another thing to say that don't exist.

Our government at first thought that Bin Ladin was a mere financier. And our intelligence agencies thought that well into the 1990's but, as we learned more, we realized he formed Al Qaeda in the late 80's. They did call themselves Al Qaeda, but they didn't publicize this name because it was a secret organization. Members had swear an oath to the leaders.

When Bin Ladin first got to Afghanistan, he was the follower of a charismatic Palistinian scholar, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam who was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and led an organization called the Islamic Services Organization which financed and recruited foreign fighters in Afghanistan. This is the organization that Al Qaeda grew out of (and they had people in Brooklyn as early as 1986. I was in college when Rabbi Meir Kahane was killed and I remember friends arguing if attending the funeral meant supporting Kahane or showing support against a man killed by an Islamic zealot.)

In 1988 Bin Ladin and Azzam and Egyptian Islamic Jihad formed Al Qaeda. Egyptian Islamic Jihad grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood and were thrown out of Egypt, this is where the Ayman al-Zawahiri wing of Al Qaeda comes from. al-Zawahiri and Azzam were kind of rivals which both trying to get access to the money that Bin Ladin controlled. When Azzam died in 1989 his group split up and half of them joined Bin Ladin. EIJ remained a separate organization that still performed other actions around the world, they fully merged with Al Qaeda in the mid 90's.

There's a whole series of terrorist attacks there were directly connected to Al Qaeda and planned by Al Qaeda, the 9/11 plot being the most devasting and successufl of these attacks.

If you want to say Bin Ladin's gang is called something else, that may be one thing, but it's nonsense to argue Bin Ladin's gang never existed and never killed thousands of people over the globe.

[Rasheed1]

KSM was the true brains behind 9/11. Think of OBL as the owner, Al Zawahiri as the coach and KSM as the cerebral quarterback or OC. I would wager it is was easier to just say OBL is the brain and nickname the others #2, #3, etc since OBL was the one with the taped comments. Considering your view as well do you also think Al Jazeera is on the take from western governments?


Thats sounds good and all... But it doesnt answer the question of how Bin Laden was said to be the mastermind, the 'OWNER' of this movement....

but yet he was never actually charged with the crime.. He was hunted down and killed, yet FBI says they dont have enough evidence to charge him?

We based a whole war on terrorism around this guy and the so called organization he owns, but he wasnt even charged?

Sounds like an attempt to get him under rico laws or something, but other than that?

none of the Bin Laden/Al Qaeda nonsense makes any sense at all..

Even his death makes no sense....

Kill him and throw his body in the ocean? really?

:facepalm

[Rasheed1]

Also I did read your links and the Bill Moyers one doesnt really disagree with anything Ive said... It seems to insinuate that Bin Laden and Azzam came up with the term "Al Qaeda" but it doesnt actually say it.

[Rasheed1]

If you want to say Bin Ladin's gang is called something else, that may be one thing, but it's nonsense to argue Bin Ladin's gang never existed and never killed thousands of people over the globe.


I never said thousands of people werent killed.... Get your reading comprehension up pal....

he wasnt the leader of a gang that masterminded 911... If he was, why isnt he charged with it?

He is supposedly the leader, right? right?

I was pretty clear in what I was saying...

[KevinNYC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERgMsTvjC0

I also remember reading a few articles on it in BBC back in like 2004 or 05..
If I can find them, I'll post those also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERgMsTvjC0

You realize that nothing in this video backs up what you are saying and the headline on the video, CIA Agent Exposes How Al-Qaeda Doesn't Exist, is completely false. In fact, if you go to 9:29 of that video he explains why Al Qaeda formed. He says:

The key point of formation of Al Qaeda was the presence of American Troops on the Arabian peninsula. 15 years after they declared war on us........

Michael Scheuer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Scheuer) is making a critique of how US policymakers and speech makers have misunderstood Al Qaeda's goals and motivation. He is a devoted "non-interventionist" and has a website dedicated to promoting that idea (http://non-intervention.com/about-2/). He is also a "paleoconservative" and feels our military presence in the Mideast, our support of repressive government over the years (see Egypt, Saudi Arabia), and our support of Israel is why Al Qaeda and other Islamist groups see us as the enemy. He argues the opposite of this groups don't exist, he sees them as a bigger threat that we acknowledge

If you think Michael Scheuer didn't think Bin Ladin was a dedicated threat to the US, you know absolutely nothing about the man. And he certainly didn't think Bin Ladin was a mere financier. Here's how his book on Bin Ladin (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/osama-bin-laden-michael-scheuer/1100258862?ean=9780199738663&itm=1&USRI=michael+scheuer+osama+bin+laden&) described him


In this book, Scheuer provides a much-needed corrective--a hard-headed, closely reasoned portrait of bin Laden, showing him to be a figure of remarkable leadership skills, strategic genius, and considerable rhetorical abilities. The first head of the CIA's bin Laden Unit, where he led the effort to track down bin Laden, Scheuer draws from a wealth of information about bin Laden and his evolution from peaceful Saudi dissident to America's Most Wanted. Shedding light on his development as a theologian, media manipulator, and paramilitary commander, Scheuer makes use of all the speeches and interviews bin Laden has given as well as lengthy interviews, testimony, and previously untranslated documents written by those who grew up with bin Laden in Saudi Arabia, served as his bodyguards and drivers, and fought alongside him against the Soviets. The bin Laden who emerges from these accounts is devout, talented, patient, and ruthless; in other words, a truly formidable and implacable enemy of the West.

[KevinNYC]

I never said thousands of people werent killed.... Get your reading comprehension up pal....

he wasnt the leader of a gang that masterminded 911... If he was, why isnt he charged with it?

He is supposedly the leader, right? right?

I was pretty clear in what I was saying...


Why didn't we update the criminal complaint? Um, could it be because we had declared War on Al Qaeda? I'm sorry but your reasoning is ridiculous.

[Rasheed1]

You realize that nothing in this video backs up what you are saying and the headline on the video, CIA Agent Exposes How Al-Qaeda Doesn't Exist, is completely false. In fact, if you go to 9:29 of that video he explains why Al Qaeda formed. He says:

but he doesnt say who named it and what it's real capacity is... and his determination of their goals in that clip is also part in how people have been misled about the nature of this group....

And thats my point... Bin Laden didnt create the term Al qaeda... The united states did...

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif

^this is the type BS IM talking about... this doesnt exist... There is another video I posted which explains the neo-con agenda and their close history with these groups...



Why didn't we update the criminal complaint? Um, could it be because we had declared War on Al Qaeda? I'm sorry but your reasoning is ridiculous.

You think there is no issue with him never being charged for the crime that got us into a 10+yr multi war?

He's known as the 'mastermind' .... the owner and leader of this group, but he was never charged?


:roll: and yet you call me ridiculous?

GTFOH

[Rasheed1]

[quote]Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden

[IcanzIIravor]

but he doesnt say who named it and what it's real capacity is... and his determination of their goals in that clip is also part in how people have been misled about the nature of this group....

And thats my point... Bin Laden didnt create the term Al qaeda... The united states did...

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif

^this is the type BS IM talking about... this doesnt exist... There is another video I posted which explains the neo-con agenda and their close history with these groups...




You think there is no issue with him never being charged for the crime that got us into a 10+yr multi war?

He's known as the 'mastermind' .... the owner and leader of this group, but he was never charged?


:roll: and yet you call me ridiculous?

GTOH

You do agree that KSM masterminded 9/11, correct? The way you are emphasizing this makes me think that you believe OBL had nothing to do with the 9/11 plot even though it is factual that KSM was a key member of AQ. Are you claiming that OBL had no direct hand in the plot and thus he is innocent with regards to 9/11? Outside of you saying "we" created AQ I am trying to figure out what direction you are going here.

[Rasheed1]

You do agree that KSM masterminded 9/11, correct? The way you are emphasizing this makes me think that you believe OBL had nothing to do with the 9/11 plot even though it is factual that KSM was a key member of AQ. Are you claiming that OBL had no direct hand in the plot and thus he is innocent with regards to 9/11? Outside of you saying "we" created AQ I am trying to figure out what direction you are going here.


I can agree that OBL had a LOOSE association with a sh*tload of terrorists and he funded some and even had command over some others at points.. But he wasnt head of a global terrorist network that he named Al Qaeda..

We looked at the loose association and called it Al Qaeda.

As far as the his involvement in 911 goes?

Im simply putting out the fact that they never even charged the guy with the crime that they we all are told that he masterminded...

FBI even admits they didnt have the evidence...

How could that be?

Does that make me more inclined or less inclined to believe these stories on their face?

To me, thats a huge red flag...

[-p.tiddy-]

Every other country on the globe acknowledges the existence of Al Qaeda...including Afghanistan and Pakistan...so this wasn't to brainwash us, it was to brainwash EVERYONE ON THE PLANET

Bin Ladan himself has acknowledged the attacks, as well as OTHER ATTACKS ( the first WTC bombing)

Bin Laden's family acknowledges that he was the leader of Al Qaeda and that they were resonsible for the attacks

Omar Bin Laden (one of his sons) has openly spoken out against his father...




then we have some kids that watched a few YouTube vids say it's all an act...:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[KevinNYC]

If you do your own research, you'd realize that 9/11 was full of lies.

Why would a terrorist organization deny involvement after a terrorist act? The whole point of a terrorist organization is to be recognized. If they were 100% responsible for 9/11, they would be PROUD of it, not deny it.

The CIA came up with a list of names that were allegedly pilots of the planes that crashed into the towers.. yet most of those people were found alive and well in other countries. So who really drove the planes into the towers? Are you telling me it's that easy to get into a plane in the U.S. without I.D.? What about the 100s of cameras they have in airports? And why did the U.S. give up so fast on looking into who REALLY flew those planes? We do manhunts for serial killers that kill 5-10 people, and we never give up until we arrest them.. yet these people flew planes into buildings and killed THOUSANDS.. yet they don't seem to care to find the individuals who actually flew those planes.

What about the pentagon? You really believe a plane crashed into that building? Just look at the pictures. There is NO WAY a plane crashed there. Why would the gov't cover that shit up?

It may not have been the U.S. gov't that was responsible for 9/11, but they sure as hell are lying about something.

Don't be ****ing thick. Most of the "alleged pilots" who are still alive were Arabs with the same name as other Arabs, you know like how that occurs all the time with Western Names (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S254LsjL0sI)

As for claiming responsibility, you mean like when Al Qaeda said in October 2001 that American Secretary of State should not have doubted them and the storm of plane attacks will not stop (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism1)?

Or do you mean like 2004 like Bin Ladin claimed direct responsibility right before the presidential elections in the US (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html)?

Are you telling me it's that easy to get into a plane in the U.S. without I.D.?
Um the reason we knew who they were was they used their regular ID. They weren't trying to hide anything. Of the 19 hijackers only two were known to US intelligence (a fact which the CIA hid from the FBI in one of hte more celebrated intelligence screwups.) While the planes were still in the air, at least one of the flight crews was able to communicate which seat members were involved in the hijackings. A couple others had their passports in their luggage and the luggage didn't make it on the plane.

[Rasheed1]

Don't be ****ing thick. Most of the "alleged pilots" who are still alive were Arabs with the same name as other Arabs, you know like how that occurs all the time with Western Names (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S254LsjL0sI)

Totally lame excuse :lol you can come up with a better one than this pal....




Or do you mean like 2004 like Bin Ladin claimed direct responsibility right before the presidential elections in the US (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html)?
[B]

^do you have a video for this? I would love to see it...

[IcanzIIravor]

I can agree that OBL had a LOOSE association with a sh*tload of terrorists and he funded some and even had command over some others at points.. But he wasnt head of a global terrorist network that he named Al Qaeda..

We looked at the loose association and called it Al Qaeda.

As far as the his involvement in 911 goes?

Im simply putting out the fact that they never even charged the guy with the crime that they we all are told that he masterminded...

FBI even admits they didnt have the evidence...

How could that be?

Does that make me more inclined or less inclined to believe these stories on their face?

To me, thats a huge red flag...

How so? The global community that keeps ties to the various terror organizations emphasized early on that many different terror groups sent elements to various camps that AQ and other elements had along the Horn of Africa, before they were driven out and then in Afghanistan. AQ, for a fact exists and did not get formed by the US government. I think you are jumbling the fact that we funded the Mujahadin and took a leap using that as the basis for AQ being created. Kevin laid it out pretty well. If your beef is that the USA and media has not made a clear distinction between terror groups loosely allied with AQ and other Islamic terror groups then I think that is a far different discussion. Do you doubt the terror attacks that have been laid at the feet of AQ? If so, which ones? 9/11 was definitely AQ, but your beef is that OBL hasn't been charged so he shouldn't have to take blame even though it is factual KSM worked for him?

[Rasheed1]

How so? The global community that keeps ties to the various terror organizations emphasized early on that many different terror groups sent elements to various camps that AQ and other elements had along the Horn of Africa, before they were driven out and then in Afghanistan. AQ, for a fact exists and did not get formed by the US government. I think you are jumbling the fact that we funded the Mujahadin and took a leap using that as the basis for AQ being created.

no, Im saying that Al Qaeda as we know it does not exist... I dont dispute terrorists being sent to Afghanistan to train.. but like I keep saying, the idea we were fed about al qaeda isnt true...







Kevin laid it out pretty well. If your beef is that the USA and media has not made a clear distinction between terror groups loosely allied with AQ and other Islamic terror groups then I think that is a far different discussion.

the media has done an extremely poor job making any distinction at all... that is a part of my point... They would have you believe Bin Laden led some global terrorist network from a cave fortress somewhere in Afghanistan...




Do you doubt the terror attacks that have been laid at the feet of AQ? If so, which ones? 9/11 was definitely AQ, but your beef is that OBL hasn't been charged so he shouldn't have to take blame even though it is factual KSM worked for him?

*OBL is the supposedly the head of Al Qaeda....

*Al Qaeda is supposedly the group that committed the 911 attacks...

*OBL was never charged with any crime involving 911.. But he was the head of the organization that supposedly committed the 911 attacks


*Bush received authorization (we didnt declare war) to go after Bin Laden.... yet he was never actually charged in connection to 911..

my beef is that the government's stories dont add up and therefore I cannot believe a word they say...

[IcanzIIravor]

no, Im saying that Al Qaeda as we know it does not exist... I dont dispute terrorists being sent to Afghanistan to train.. but like I keep saying, the idea we were fed about al qaeda isnt true...








the media has done an extremely poor job making any distinction at all... that is a part of my point... They would have you believe Bin Laden led some global terrorist network from a cave fortress somewhere in Afghanistan...





*OBL is the supposedly the head of Al Qaeda....

*Al Qaeda is supposedly the group that committed the 911 attacks...

*OBL was never charged with any crime involving 911.. But he was the head of the organization that supposedly committed the 911 attacks


*Bush received authorization (we didnt declare war) to go after Bin Laden.... yet he was never actually charged in connection to 911..

my beef is that the government's stories dont add up and therefore I cannot believe a word they say...

Okay,s o you don't think AQ is behind 9/11? Am I correct in saying that? I suppose that should be the starting point. If you don't believe AQ planned 9/11 then you also believe Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was framed by the US government. Is this your belief?

[-p.tiddy-]

OBL was the FBI #1 Most Wanted for years and years...

and it isn't just the US gov that has this "story"...it is almost every gov minus like Cuba and Iran...

obviously the US gov has lied in the past or kept some secrets to themselves etc...that doesn't mean Al Qaeda just flat out doesn't exist or that Bin Laden is innocent and all of this has been a decade long lie to brain wash us...

[Rasheed1]

Okay,s o you don't think AQ is behind 9/11? Am I correct in saying that?

I dont believe the official story is true...

Whether that means the government let it happen for whatever reason

Or whether they made it happen on purpose

or whether a group terrorists attacked and the government bungled everything

I couldnt say, but I can say that the official story is total bullsh*t because the sheer number of contradictions and lies told along the way...



I suppose that should be the starting point. If you don't believe AQ planned 9/11 then you also believe Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was framed by the US government. Is this your belief?

If KSM is the main guy, why make Bin Laden the most wanted man in the world for a crime that he was never charged with?

somebody help me see how you wage a war on terror (with Bin laden as the face of the 911 attacks)... Kill tens of thousands of people... but in reality we never even charged him?

before I can worry about any of his supposed underlings, I need someone to try and explain how that makes any sense at all.

[KevinNYC]

but he doesnt say who named it and what it's real capacity is... and his determination of their goals in that clip is also part in how people have been misled about the nature of this group....

And thats my point... Bin Laden didnt create the term Al qaeda... The united states did...

Scheuer is not an obscure figure. Ever since he quit the CIA and starting writing books he's been on the record that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda represent an implacable and dangerous foe. He was very critical of Clinton and Bush for not recognizing the danger presented by Al Qaeda and not going all out against them before 9/11.

Here's what he says in his book on Bin Laden (http://books.google.com/books?id=Vt-a30Z4_UUC&q=flagg#v=snippet&q=flagg&f=false) which you can read in Google books. He specifically mentions Jason Burke, the British Author in the video you clip you showed who says Al Qaeda doesn't exist.

Does it or does it not exist? My conclusion is that Al Qaeda surely does exist, that it was founded by Osama Bin Laden and his colleagues and do this day, they direct its operations (the book was written a couple of months before Bin Laden was killed.)

He says the reason Burke and other misread Al Qaeda is that they are looking for a conventional terrorist group and that is not what Al Qaeda is and they are more of an insurgent group...which therefore would put more priority on secrecy over propaganda and publicty. He also says that Al-Qaeda understands that for their struggle to be successful that it will have to go on for decades.

[dunksby]

Scheuer is not an obscure figure. Ever since he quit the CIA and starting writing books he's been on the record that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda represent an implacable and dangerous foe. He was very critical of Clinton and Bush for not recognizing the danger presented by Al Qaeda and not going all out against them before 9/11.

Here's what he says in his book on Bin Laden (http://books.google.com/books?id=Vt-a30Z4_UUC&q=flagg#v=snippet&q=flagg&f=false) which you can read in Google books. He specifically mentions Jason Burke, the British Author in the video you clip you showed who says Al Qaeda doesn't exist.


He says the reason Burke and other misread Al Qaeda is that they are looking for a conventional terrorist group and that is not what Al Qaeda is and they are more of an insurgent group...which therefore would put more priority on secrecy over propaganda and publicty. He also says that Al-Qaeda understands that for their struggle to be successful that it will have to go on for decades.
Have you seen this Adam Curtis documentary? It is really informative regarding the roots of Islamist extremism and the forming of Neoconservative movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ

[Cangri]

Every other country on the globe acknowledges the existence of Al Qaeda...including Afghanistan and Pakistan...so this wasn't to brainwash us, it was to brainwash EVERYONE ON THE PLANET

Bin Ladan himself has acknowledged the attacks, as well as OTHER ATTACKS ( the first WTC bombing)

Bin Laden's family acknowledges that he was the leader of Al Qaeda and that they were resonsible for the attacks

Omar Bin Laden (one of his sons) has openly spoken out against his father...




then we have some kids that watched a few YouTube vids say it's all an act...:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Just ignore these lunatics, they say people like you are the ones that live on a close box but they are the ones that won't believe anything else expect what they want, it's always the government that wants to kill us.

[Rasheed1]

@kevin

^I read a few pages of that text and does indeed talk about Al Qaeda, but he still doesnt pin-point who created the term or the overblown image of this group "Al Qaeda"


He talks as though these are schools of thought on what Al Qaeda is... Thats not news to me Kevin

[Rasheed1]

Have you seen this Adam Curtis documentary? It is really informative regarding the roots of Islamist extremism and the forming of Neoconservative movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ


Good post...I posted that video also...

[dunksby]

Good post...I posted that video also...
If you want to know what is happening with Al Qaeda now you should check this out:

The US drone attacks are driving the Al Qaeda from the mountains to cities, especially Karachi, Pakistan. They are now a major gang who offer their services in assassination and deal in narcs. Soroush Alvi of Vice has done a very informative and compelling documentary on the issue:
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-vice-guide-to-karachi-part-1

[Rasheed1]

If you want to know what is happening with Al Qaeda now you should check this out:


I skimmed some of it... Looks interesting...

[dunksby]

I skimmed some of it... Looks interesting...
Yea the video is a good first hand account of their metamorphosis.

[millwad]

Yea the video is a good first hand account of their metamorphosis.

Is it true that you're iranian?

[IcanzIIravor]

I dont believe the official story is true...

Whether that means the government let it happen for whatever reason

Or whether they made it happen on purpose

or whether a group terrorists attacked and the government bungled everything

I couldnt say, but I can say that the official story is total bullsh*t because the sheer number of contradictions and lies told along the way...




If KSM is the main guy, why make Bin Laden the most wanted man in the world for a crime that he was never charged with?

somebody help me see how you wage a war on terror (with Bin laden as the face of the 911 attacks)... Kill tens of thousands of people... but in reality we never even charged him?

before I can worry about any of his supposed underlings, I need someone to try and explain how that makes any sense at all.

Are you serious? OBL was #1 due to all the attacks that AQ had done prior to 9/11 and after. You remember the Cole bombing, the embassy bombings in Kenya and Nairobi and other attacks? OBL was the acknowledged head of AQ, so of course he would be number 1, while Al Zawahiri, KSM and others would fall under him. OBL's released tapes and videos to Al Jazeera further emphasized OBL as the head of AQ. How is this confusing to you?

[KevinNYC]

Totally lame excuse :lol you can come up with a better one than this pal....

^do you have a video for this? I would love to see it...
Lame excuse? Dude, if you're inclined to believe conspiracy theories, you're not going to believe any evidence I give you. (http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Hijackers_still_alive) But at least three hijackers were misidentified in early news reports. News reports that came out before the FBI provided their photo sheet of all 19 hijackers

Waleed M al-Shehri was the hijacker.
Waleed Ahmed Alshehri was a Saudi pilot who studied in the US and turned up alive in Morocco.
Here's an initial report in the bbc (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm). Here's their note that they changed that story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html) when it kept appearing in conspiracy theories.

al-Shehri is a very common Saudi name. Three of the hijackers had it (two were brothers.)

Video of Osama's 2004 speech (http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/oct-29-2004-osama-bin-laden-video-message-11700438)

Transcript (http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=215913&page=1#.T8-cypjUmAg)

In the video Bin Laden says the inspiration for 911 was the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, when he saw the towers in Lebanaon being destroyed was when he first thought of bring down the towers in America.


"The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. The bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorized and displaced I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood, and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high-rises demolished over their residents rockets raining down on our homes without mercy the situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but didn't respond. In those difficult moments, many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors. And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children. And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy while resistance is terrorism and intolerance. This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr. did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children-also in Iraq-as Bush Jr. did in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages. So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs.

[Rasheed1]

Are you serious? OBL was #1 due to all the attacks that AQ had done prior to 9/11 and after. You remember the Cole bombing, the embassy bombings in Kenya and Nairobi and other attacks? OBL was the acknowledged head of AQ, so of course he would be number 1, while Al Zawahiri, KSM and others would fall under him. OBL's released tapes and videos to Al Jazeera further emphasized OBL as the head of AQ. How is this confusing to you?

What confuses me is that we waged a huge war over the 911 attacks... Not the Cole bombing or the Embassy attack..

You are stating all the supposed 'evidence that Bin Laden is the leader....

and yet.....

he was never charged by the FBI for 911 (the supposed crime that caused this whole war on terror and multiple invasions of other countries)


you spell it out like it's true as day... but yet he isnt charged with the crime that started all this

Again... the point is that it doesnt add up... if all of this is soo straight up and down? why would the FBI publicity chief say they dont have enough evidence to charge Bin Laden with 911?

why is that?

[IcanzIIravor]

What confuses me is that we waged a huge war over the 911 attacks... Not the Cole bombing or the Embassy attack..

You are stating all the supposed 'evidence that Bin Laden is the leader....

and yet.....

he was never charged by the FBI for 911 (the supposed crime that caused this whole war on terror and multiple invasions of other countries)


you spell it out like it's true as day... but yet he isnt charged with the crime that started all this

Again... the point is that it doesnt add up... if all of this is soo straight up and down? why would the FBI publicity chief say they dont have enough evidence to charge Bin Laden with 911?

why is that?

You're aware that under the previous administration it was basically viewed as a law enforcement issue, outside of a few lame cruise missiles we launched at the wrong target? Each of the previous attacks the FBI took the lead in the investigating and used Interpol amongst others to take on AQ and those who helped finance the attacks. A great example was how the first WTC attacks were investigated and prosecuted.

Under the Bush administration instead of turning it over to the FBI it was deemed worth going to war over. The Bush administration took a more bellicose approach to the fight against terrorism further helped along by the Taliban refusing to hand over the 9/11 plot masterminds. I admit I am puzzled how you are using this FBI most wanted emphasis as a jumping off point to argue that OBL had no hand in 9/11.

What say you to this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kqpZGBOKZQ

That is Zawahiri talking about the 9/11 hijackers with OBL at his side. Are you still going to claim OBL had no hand in 9/11? You are responsible for what the people under you do when you foster that culture and actively encourage it.

[Rasheed1]

Lame excuse? Dude, if you're inclined to believe conspiracy theories, you're not going to believe any evidence I give you. (http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Hijackers_still_alive) But at least three hijackers were misidentified in early news reports. News reports that came out before the FBI provided their photo sheet of all 19 hijackers

Waleed M al-Shehri was the hijacker.
Waleed Ahmed Alshehri was a Saudi pilot who studied in the US and turned up alive in Morocco.
Here's an initial report in the bbc (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm). Here's their note that they changed that story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html) when it kept appearing in conspiracy theories.

al-Shehri is a very common Saudi name. Three of the hijackers had it (two were brothers.)

The original story went up in 2001.... They changed their story in 2006 and not even the people in the comment section below it believe that one second...

I dont think I do either


Video of Osama's 2004 speech (http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/oct-29-2004-osama-bin-laden-video-message-11700438)

Transcript (http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=215913&page=1#.T8-cypjUmAg)

In the video Bin Laden says the inspiration for 911 was the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, when he saw the towers in Lebanaon being destroyed was when he first thought of bring down the towers in America.

^good video....

but he didnt actually take responsibility for the events of 911.... and I looking to see if that was a real bin laden video or a fatty bin laden video

[Rasheed1]

You're aware that under the previous administration it was basically viewed as a law enforcement issue, outside of a few lame cruise missiles we launched at the wrong target? Each of the previous attacks the FBI took the lead in the investigating and used Interpol amongst others to take on AQ and those who helped finance the attacks. A great example was how the first WTC attacks were investigated and prosecuted.

Under the Bush administration instead of turning it over to the FBI it was deemed worth going to war over. The Bush administration took a more bellicose approach to the fight against terrorism further helped along by the Taliban refusing to hand over the 9/11 plot masterminds. I admit I am puzzled how you are using this FBI most wanted emphasis as a jumping off point to argue that OBL had no hand in 9/11.

What say you to this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kqpZGBOKZQ

That is Zawahiri talking about the 9/11 hijackers with OBL at his side. Are you still going to claim OBL had no hand in 9/11? You are responsible for what the people under you do when you foster that culture and actively encourage it.


none of this answers the question "why didnt they charge him"

the FBI said "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."

I cant even begin to talk about what role Zawahiri plays in all of this until we figure out how Bin Laden could be the owner and mastermind and never get charged with that crime..

like you said... He is charged with the Cole bombing (they didnt fail to charge him of that).. But not charged with the crime that set off this decade long war? How is that?

I could follow you if you could explain how the FBI failed to charged this guy for the crime when you say his connection to it is obvious...

[KevinNYC]

I dont believe the official story is true...

Whether that means the government let it happen for whatever reason

Or whether they made it happen on purpose

or whether a group terrorists attacked and the government bungled everything

I couldnt say, but I can say that the official story is total bullsh*t because the sheer number of contradictions and lies told along the way...

This is the basic problem with the conspiratorial mindset. It's like playing whack-a-mole. Every time you beat back some of the bullshit, they pop up saying someone else. So you believe it's equally possible that the 911 attacks were a successful plot by a terrorist group OR the government officials were involved in a massive conspiracy involving dozens (hundreds? thousands? of people) to murder 3000 Americans and no member of the conspiracy backed out or felt remorse afterwards and came forward to blow the lid on it. You also would have to believe that the government could successfully pull off that conspiracy.



If KSM is the main guy, why make Bin Laden the most wanted man in the world for a crime that he was never charged with?

somebody help me see how you wage a war on terror (with Bin laden as the face of the 911 attacks)... Kill tens of thousands of people... but in reality we never even charged him?

before I can worry about any of his supposed underlings, I need someone to try and explain how that makes any sense at all.

*OBL is the supposedly the head of Al Qaeda....

*Al Qaeda is supposedly the group that committed the 911 attacks...

*OBL was never charged with any crime involving 911.. But he was the head of the organization that supposedly committed the 911 attacks

*Bush received authorization (we didnt declare war) to go after Bin Laden.... yet he was never actually charged in connection to 911..

my beef is that the government's stories dont add up and therefore I cannot believe a word they say...

The evidence linked 911 to Al Qaeda is quite strong. The evidence linking 911 to Bin Laden is very circumstantial since he communicated by proxy and delegated authority.....It's also besides the ****ing point. I don't see why you are fixed on this. We went to war with Bin Laden, do you think they needed at that point to prepare an indictment against him? When we already had a standing indictment? Do you actually think that would have been a good use of limited resources?


What confuses me is that we waged a huge war over the 911 attacks... Not the Cole bombing or the Embassy attack..


Seriously? This ****ing confuses you?

[-p.tiddy-]

what do you mean "charged him" ?

like you need someone to file an official police report or something lol? good God who gives a shit, obviously he is a unique situation



was Hitler officialy "charged" for the Holocaust?...no?...oh well in that case he doesn't really exist...all BS

[IcanzIIravor]

none of this answers the question "why didnt they charge him"

the FBI said "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."

I cant even begin to talk about what role Zawahiri plays in all of this until we figure out how Bin Laden could be the owner and mastermind and never get charged with that crime..

I could follow you if you could explain how the FBI failed to charged this guy for the crime when you say his connection to it is obvious...

So your hang up is the FBI doing there job and not charging OBL? You can't separate an FBI investigation from the Bush Administration jumping into the War on Terror? It was taken out of the FBI's hands when we went to war.

Your emphasis is this, right:

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

If so, I confess I am further puzzled by your puzzlement. They linked him to the previous attacks through records and the plotters captured. Considering that the hijackers who carried out 9/11 died during it, are we surprised the FBI did not investigate and tie OBL to 9/11? As far as I know they have not been involved in interrogating KSM or most if not all the captured combatants down in Guantanamo or who we have sent to shadow locations. I am not understanding, given this, why you are hung up on OBL not being charged by the FBI.

If you look at Zawahiri's most wanted profile you will see he hasn't been charged with 9/11 as well. I think you haven't made the distinction between an FBI investigation and the current war on terror.

[Rasheed1]

This is the basic problem with the conspiratorial mindset. It's like playing whack-a-mole. Every time you beat back some of the bullshit, they pop up saying someone else.

Your problem is that you equate the person who asks these questions to a conspiratorial mindset.

There wouldnt be soo many moles for you to whack if there werent soo many contradictory tales for you to defend...





So you believe it's equally possible that the 911 attacks were a successful plot by a terrorist group OR the government officials were involved in a massive conspiracy involving dozens (hundreds? thousands? of people) to murder 3000 Americans and no member of the conspiracy backed out or felt remorse afterwards and came forward to blow the lid on it. You also would have to believe that the government could successfully pull off that conspiracy.


They did it with the gulf of Tonkin incident... They almost got it done when they tried operation northwoods. Nobody backed away or felt remorse (expcept Kennedy) in those incidents... False flag operations happen.. that much has been proven, so I dont see it would be so impossible to do here...

it is a possibility....




The evidence linked 911 to Al Qaeda is quite strong. The evidence linking 911 to Bin Laden is very circumstantial since he communicated by proxy and delegated authority.....It's also besides the ****ing point. I don't see why you are fixed on this. We went to war with Bin Laden, do you think they needed at that point to prepare an indictment against him? When we already had a standing indictment? Do you actually think that would have been a good use of limited resources?

YES!!! :hammerhead: hell yes they need to actually CHARGE THE MOFO wit the crime we are invading other countries over>..

you gotta be F*ckin kiddin me sayin 'It's also besides the ****ing point.'
:roll:

It is a huge point... its practically the whole point... How much confidence am I supposed to have in all of your stories if you havent even charged the guy who you claim is the culprit?

^please answer that question kevin

[IcanzIIravor]

Your problem is that you equate the person who asks these questions to a conspiratorial mindset.

There wouldnt be soo many moles for you to whack if there werent soo many contradictory tales for you to defend...







They did it with the gulf of Tonkin incident... They almost got it done when they tried operation northwoods. Nobody backed away or felt remorse (expcept Kennedy) in those incidents... False flag operations happen.. that much has been proven, so I dont see it would be so impossible to do here...

it is a possibility....





YES!!! :hammerhead: hell yes they need to actually CHARGE THE MOFO wit the crime we are invading other countries over>..

you gotta be F*ckin kiddin me sayin 'It's also besides the ****ing point.'
:roll:

It is a huge point... its practically the whole point... How much confidence am I supposed to have in all of your stories if you havent even charged the guy who you claim is the culprit?

^please answer that question kevin

You're aware the current war on terror is a military operation, right? The FBI is not the lead here. I confess I am blown away by your mindset with regards to this.

[CelticBaller]

:rolleyes: Al Quada doesn't even exist....creation of the CIA.

I guess Al Quada "won", eh? They managed to steal trillions of our dollars thru the Military Industrial Complex.........good job.
:oldlol:

[Rasheed1]

You're aware the current war on terror is a military operation, right? The FBI is not the lead here. I confess I am blown away by your mindset with regards to this.


and Im blown away that you dont see the basic problem here.....

If the FBI doesnt have enough hard evidence to connect Bin Laden to 911?

Then we probably dont have enough evidence to invade to countries, killing people looking for the guy because of 911


You think that there is no issue here... I disagree.... I see a huge issue here that goes directly to the credibility of almost everything else being discussed regarding 911 and Bin Laden.

[IcanzIIravor]

and Im blown away that you see the basic problem here.....

If the FBI doesnt have enough hard evidence to connect Bin Laden to 911?

Then we probably dont have enough evidence to invade to countries, killing people looking for the guy because of 911


You think that there is no issue here... I disagree.... I see a huge issue here that goes directly to the credibility of almost everything else being discussed regarding 911 and Bin Laden.

How are they going to be able to do it when they are not privy to any information since the military/cia is running the show? Using the FBI to hang your hat on is frankly laughable. You would make more since in being incensed at the current tribunals scheduled/going on at Guantanamo and all the evidence redacted/held back in those cases. Using the FBI as your basis for thinking OBL has been hosed with regards to 9/11 is flatly being dishonest and insulting to the FBI since, as I have pointed out, investigating OBL and other top elements was snatched out of their hands. You need to try a different tack with what evidence the CIA/Military has or lack of evidence.

[Rasheed1]

So because (you think) there isn't hard evidence connecting BL to 9'11, this means AQ doesn't exist? Makes sense.

The FBI says "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."

That isnt me just thinking it.... That is the FBI saying it...

[Rasheed1]

How are they going to be able to do it when they are not privy to any information since the military/cia is running the show? Using the FBI to hang your hat on is frankly laughable. You would make more since in being incensed at the current tribunals scheduled/going on at Guantanamo and all the evidence redacted/held back in those cases. Using the FBI as your basis for thinking OBL has been hosed with regards to 9/11 is flatly being dishonest and insulting to the FBI since, as I have pointed out, investigating OBL and other top elements was snatched out of their hands. You need to try a different tack with what evidence the CIA/Military has or lack of evidence.


So the CIA knows and just didnt ever bother to share it with the FBI? :lol C'mon

you say it is laughable but you cannot explain why it makes sense... and therefore put it to rest...


And my point isnt that OBL was hosed... My point is that the official story is an untruth...

[sunsfan1357]

So the CIA knows and just didnt ever bother to share it with the FBI? :lol C'mon

you say it is laughable but you cannot explain why it makes sense... and therefore put it to rest...


And my point isnt that OBL was hosed... My point is that the official story is an untruth...
Isn't there a history of the two not sharing information with one another?

[IcanzIIravor]

So the CIA knows and just didnt ever bother to share it with the FBI? :lol C'mon

you say it is laughable but you cannot explain why it makes sense... and therefore put it to rest...


And my point isnt that OBL was hosed... My point is that the official story is an untruth...

Re-read what I wrote. If you have studied what has going on as you claim then you would know the current war overseas is with the military and cia taking the lead and with the cia doing the bulk of the initial interrogations. This of course means the FBI has been shut out of this. Are you following me so far? Your beef and puzzlement should not have anything to do with the FBI's ten most wanted, given how they have been shut out. I would find your outrage more grounded if you had been shouting for the military and cia to release any info they have regarding OBL and 9/11 or to admit they can't link him directly. This waxing and waning about the FBI is silly.

[Rasheed1]

That wasn't really my point.... My point was, how the fvck does that prove AQ doesn't exist?

I never said that this one fact alone proves it...

Im asking (and you already quoted me here, but obviously didnt get it)

How much confidence am I supposed to have in all of your stories if you havent even charged the guy who you claim is the culprit?


If we are gonna seriously discuss whether or not Al Qaeda exists in the way we were led to believe? Then we need to somehow square alot of these contradictions laying the story...

We have a few people here who claim that all of this makes sense :confusedshrug: So Im asking.......

What about this?

[Rasheed1]

Re-read what I wrote. If you have studied what has going on as you claim then you would know the current war overseas is with the military and cia taking the lead and with the cia doing the bulk of the initial interrogations. This of course means the FBI has been shut out of this. Are you following me so far? Your beef and puzzlement should not have anything to do with the FBI's ten most wanted, given how they have been shut out. I would find your outrage more grounded if you had been shouting for the military and cia to release any info they have regarding OBL and 9/11 or to admit they can't link him directly. This waxing and waning about the FBI is silly.


^All the FBI has to do is charge the guy... I know they dont always work hand in hand but this ridiculous. Im supposed to believe that the CIA has the total book on this guy, but left the FBI in the total dark to the point where his most wanted profile doesnt even contain his most heinous supposed crime?

He was only the most wanted man on the face of the planet :oldlol: We started a huge war and killed many people over this...


I understand where you are coming from... I just think its silly...

and Im not trying to be disagreeable on purpose...

[IcanzIIravor]

^All the FBI has to do is charge the guy... I know they dont always work hand in hand but this ridiculous. Im supposed to believe that the CIA has the total book on this guy, but left the FBI in the total dark to the point where his most wanted profile doesnt even contain his most heinous supposed crime?

He was only the most wanted man on the face of the planet :oldlol: We started a huge war and killed many people over this...


I understand where you are coming from... I just think its silly...

and Im not trying to be disagreeable on purpose...

I clearly stated your issue should be with the CIA and military not revealing the evidence they have OR LACK OF EVIDENCE if that is so. Can you now admit this ridiculous hang up on the FBI is exactly that? Why would they charge him when they aren't privy to any evidence due to the Bush/Obama administrations making it military tribunals and not the civilian court system? I'm not sure you understand how the FBI investigates.

[Rasheed1]

I clearly stated your issue should be with the CIA and military not revealing the evidence they have OR LACK OF EVIDENCE if that is so.


Obviously... I thought that went without me having to state that... Obviously I would love to see the CIA reveal more information because I need it to square away some of the problems I have with the official story



Can you now admit this ridiculous hang up on the FBI is exactly that? Why would they charge him when they aren't privy to any evidence due to the Bush/Obama administrations making it military tribunals and not the civilian court system? I'm not sure you understand how the FBI investigates.


No.... I dont think it is ridiculous at all.. I dont think its a hang up either... I think its part of the story that doesnt make any sense (like alot of other parts to the official 911 story)..I cannot explain it away simply by saying 'The CIA and FBI dont share".

That is not good enough...

I think this is symptom to the bigger problem which I have mentioned over and over in this thread....

I think they are liars of the highest degree, and I would never just accept any story from the government that doesnt make sense..

I dont have any illusion that they would never do these things and lie to us.. I dont pretend to know where their lies end and where the truth begins...

Its still a huge question to me...

[RidonKs]

:lol this back and forth is absurd

[shlver]

Why should he be charged by the FBI if he's not in their jurisdiction?

[SourPatchKids]

Take him out.