Lebron just moved up my GOAT list

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I've been watching games longer than most of you have been alive.
That was about as fine a playoff performance as I have ever seen. Easily up there with the best ever. Boston played like crap, but that is no reason to discount Lebron's beasting.
Truly a special performance. Enjoy this shit while you can, 'cause it is extremely rare.

[ihoopallday]

I've been watching games longer than most of you have been alive.
That was about as fine a playoff performance as I have ever seen. Easily up there with the best ever. Boston played like crap, but that is no reason to discount Lebron's beasting.
Truly a special performance. Enjoy this shit while you can, 'cause it is extremely rare.

This is what I wish everyone acknowledged. We spend so much time criticizing players like Kobe, LeBron, etc., yet they're so rare to come along. Instead of hating all the time, I just enjoy watching them play.

[blablabla]

i wanted to make he same thread

[Andrei89]

Not to mention he defended Paul pierce like a baws!

[blablabla]

Not to mention he defended Paul pierce like a baws!
but pierce just had a bad night he missed a lot of open shots as well

[The_LA_Blakers]

From an MJ thread that got deleted:




what we saw last night could be a turning point... keep this in mind... he's only 27 years old and hes still younger than Jordan was when he got his 1st title.

what he's been doing this postseason has been epic... better than many of the past greats postseasons.

Lebron displayed the grit and attitude that he needs to have when the going gets tough. It was a rare sight to see, but this could be the start of things to come.

If James really has figured out how to handle real pressure situations, then its over for the NBA for 2-3 years.




Basically, 90% of the people on this site grew up watching Michael, and the media and NBA analysts alike have crowned him the no question GOAT. And commercials and what not have made him a god in most people's eyes. So no matter what you say, and no matter what Lebron does, he'll never be on MJ's level to almost everyone's eyes.


Old School guys who were adults (not emotional kids with no basketball knowlegde) in the 80's and not Bulls fans have a different view of him than most guys in their 20's and 30's, but for the most part, people are going to tell you that you're crazy.


In all honestly, I think Lebron is a better overall player than MJ was, but not a better winner, and doesn't have near the confidence.


He needs to win a ring first before any of this can be discussed.

[guy]

From an MJ thread that got deleted:



Basically, 90% of the people on this site grew up watching Michael, and the media and NBA analysts alike have crowned him the no question GOAT. And commercials and what not have made him a god in most people's eyes. So no matter what you say, and no matter what Lebron does, he'll never be on MJ's level to almost everyone's eyes.


Old School guys who were adults (not emotional kids with no basketball knowlegde) in the 80's and not Bulls fans have a different view of him than most guys in their 20's and 30's, but for the most part, people are going to tell you that you're crazy.


In all honestly, I think Lebron is a better overall player than MJ was, but not a better winner, and doesn't have near the confidence.


He needs to win a ring first before any of this can be discussed.

Jordan has 38 40+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He has 28 40+/5+/5+ playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He also has 8 50+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 0. Not to mention 6 rings vs. 0. No, its not cause of commercials and hype, and its getting ridiculous how much people think that. The gap is just that wide. One great game doesn't change that. Same thing goes for the Kobe comparisons to Jordan. On one hand, its great to see players have games like that, especially for players like Lebron where they actually have performances where comparing his performance to Jordan is actually justified. On the other hand, it reinforces the overrating of him cause people actually think this means Lebron is better or equal or on his way to being equal or better then Jordan, completely ignoring that Jordan and others have had performances like this and ignoring some of the reasons why we don't put him on that level, at least yet, specifically the horrible disappointing performances he's had fairly recently. Let Lebron win a ring first and then let him get 5 more with this kind of playoff run before we start saying that. By the way, him being 27 and Jordan at 27 is not the same. Lebron is the oldest 27 year old to ever play. Why do people keep ignoring that?

[tmacattack33]

Jordan has 38 40+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He has 28 40+/5+/5+ playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He also has 8 50+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 0. Not to mention 6 rings vs. 0. No, its not cause of commercials and hype, and its getting ridiculous how much people think that. The gap is just that wide. One great game doesn't change that. Same thing goes for the Kobe comparisons to Jordan. On one hand, its great to see players have games like that, especially for players like Lebron where they actually have performances where comparing his performance to Jordan is actually justified. On the other hand, it reinforces the overrating of him cause people actually think this means Lebron is better or equal or on his way to being equal or better then Jordan, completely ignoring that Jordan and others have had performances like this and ignoring some of the reasons why we don't put him on that level, at least yet, specifically the horrible disappointing performances he's had fairly recently. Let Lebron win a ring first and then let him get 5 more with this kind of playoff run before we start saying that. By the way, him being 27 and Jordan at 27 is not the same. Lebron is the oldest 27 year old to ever play. Why do people keep ignoring that?

Why are you holding the rebounding and assists at 5? Raise it up and Lebron will probably be closer to MJ.

MJ was a better scorer than Lebron. We already know that.

[Andrei89]

but pierce just had a bad night he missed a lot of open shots as well


True.

[Kurosawa0]

Let's see:

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Larry
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem
11. Moses
12. Oscar
13. LeBron
14. West
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Isiah Thomas
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone

That's how I'd rank it. I'd definitely take LeBron over anyone in the 17-20 range. It's tough with West, Baylor and Dr. J. I'd still probably take LeBron there and definitely if he gets a ring.

It's basically where I had Kobe pre-2009.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I just want to see Lebron play 4 quarters once in my life time.

[TheMan]

I've been watching games longer than most of you have been alive.
That was about as fine a playoff performance as I have ever seen. Easily up there with the best ever. Boston played like crap, but that is no reason to discount Lebron's beasting.
Truly a special performance. Enjoy this shit while you can, 'cause it is extremely rare.
did Rondo also move up on your GOAT list after his 44 pts performance in gm 2?

Overreaction thread, LBJ should be dominating like this, he has a long way to go to reach the upper echelon of the All Time greats list.

OTOH, if he has a clunker in gm 7, watch people here in ISH call him the biggest overhyped player ever :facepalm

[HorryIsMyMVP]

did Rondo also move up on your GOAT list after his 44 pts performance in gm 2?

Overreaction thread, LBJ should be dominating like this, he has a long way to go to reach the upper echelon of the All Time greats list.

OTOH, if he has a clunker in gm 7, watch people here in ISH call him the biggest overhyped player ever :facepalm
Pretty much

[Blue&Orange]

If James really has figured out how to handle real pressure situations, then its over for the NBA for 2-3 years.
So.... he doesn't need more help after all? Or does he? Are his teammates scrubs or not? i'm confused... :lol

[Kensta]

LeBron is just too good. Kobe is my boy but I wish he can have games like this for an elimination game.

[The_LA_Blakers]

Jordan has 38 40+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He has 28 40+/5+/5+ playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He also has 8 50+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 0. Not to mention 6 rings vs. 0. No, its not cause of commercials and hype, and its getting ridiculous how much people think that. The gap is just that wide. One great game doesn't change that. Same thing goes for the Kobe comparisons to Jordan. On one hand, its great to see players have games like that, especially for players like Lebron where they actually have performances where comparing his performance to Jordan is actually justified. On the other hand, it reinforces the overrating of him cause people actually think this means Lebron is better or equal or on his way to being equal or better then Jordan, completely ignoring that Jordan and others have had performances like this and ignoring some of the reasons why we don't put him on that level, at least yet, specifically the horrible disappointing performances he's had fairly recently. Let Lebron win a ring first and then let him get 5 more with this kind of playoff run before we start saying that. By the way, him being 27 and Jordan at 27 is not the same. Lebron is the oldest 27 year old to ever play. Why do people keep ignoring that?



Lol - yeah, because Lebron's career is over? Yeah, because they've played the same amount of games? Yeah, because Jordan didn't win after all the 80's legends were old or retired.


Here's a ink for you, bra.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context

[guy]

Why are you holding the rebounding and assists at 5? Raise it up and Lebron will probably be closer to MJ.

MJ was a better scorer than Lebron. We already know that.

I actually read that wrong. For 40/5/5, Jordan has 17 and Lebron has 10. For 40+/10+/5+ (10+/5+ being in either assists or rebounds), Jordan has 7 and Lebron has 4. So sure, you have a point.

Jordan was obviously a better scorer then Lebron. Thats not something to dismiss as not that significant. As much as everyone wants to underrate scoring because they don't want to glorify the glamorous and sometimes selfish aspect of the game, it is still the most important part of the game and thats how individuals can have the biggest impact on a game.

[Andrei89]

I just want to see Lebron play 4 quarters once in my life time.

Last year against Chicago and Boston?

What the fk is wrong with you

[The_LA_Blakers]

I actually read that wrong. For 40/5/5, Jordan has 17 and Lebron has 10. For 40+/10+/5+ (10+/5+ being in either assists or rebounds), Jordan has 7 and Lebron has 4. So sure, you have a point.

Jordan was obviously a better scorer then Lebron. Thats not something to dismiss as not that significant. As much as everyone wants to underrate scoring because they don't want to glorify the glamorous and sometimes selfish aspect of the game, it is still the most important part of the game and thats how individuals can have the biggest impact on a game.


If that were the case, Nick Young and Monte Ellis would have 5 rings each.


Come on, man!



A complete game is more important than anything, and you don't have to have offense to make an ENORMOUS difference in your team.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/7/7d/Dennis5.jpg

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Last year against Chicago and Boston?

What the fk is wrong with you
Why do we have to go that far back? This was an amazing performance. If it was always like this I wouldn't complain. I want to see Lebron do well. I just don't get why he lets up in 3rd. I don't see any evidence of a killer mentality.

[Dengness9]

From an MJ thread that got deleted:








Basically, 90% of the people on this site grew up watching Michael, and the media and NBA analysts alike have crowned him the no question GOAT. And commercials and what not have made him a god in most people's eyes. So no matter what you say, and no matter what Lebron does, he'll never be on MJ's level to almost everyone's eyes.


Old School guys who were adults (not emotional kids with no basketball knowlegde) in the 80's and not Bulls fans have a different view of him than most guys in their 20's and 30's, but for the most part, people are going to tell you that you're crazy.


In all honestly, I think Lebron is a better overall player than MJ was, but not a better winner, and doesn't have near the confidence.


He needs to win a ring first before any of this can be discussed.

Lebron is not a better overall player then Mike. Its cute that you think that but you are wrong. Very wrong. Watched MJ and lebron both, Lebron can't catch up at this point to what MJ achieved. He isn't in the same sentence even.

Michael Jordan is forever on another planet by himself.

[guy]

Lol - yeah, because Lebron's career is over? Yeah, because they've played the same amount of games? Yeah, because Jordan didn't win after all the 80's legends were old or retired.


Here's a ink for you, bra.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context

So, if Lebron wins a title are we going to say it was only after Duncan, Kobe, and the 00s stars got old? You can bring up bullshit like that to dismiss anyone's accomplishments.

I just think its stupid to say that people will never put someone over Jordan cause of commercials and hype. Jordan more then any player in history surpassed his hype, definitely moreso then players like Lebron and Kobe. Nobody gives a sh*t about his commercials. The gap is just that wide. When you can't poke holes into a players' game or his career such as Lebron's 2010 vs. the Celtics, 2011 vs. the Mavs, the fact that he's far from the scorer and defender Jordan was, and if he had all-time great games as often as Jordan did, then you would have a point. In fact, before the 2010 debacle vs. the Celtics, I don't remember anyone dismissing the idea of Lebron possibly ending up better then Jordan. But at that point, he had been in the league for 7 years, most people had seen enough of him and the 2010 series was just so inexcusable most people felt it was safe to conclude he has very little chance of being on that level. And ever since then, despite being a great player, he's reinforced that idea.

People would love to see someone come along and be better then Jordan because that would be an amazing thing to witness. But its not Lebron or Kobe.

[guy]

If that were the case, Nick Young and Monte Ellis would have 5 rings each.


Come on, man!



A complete game is more important than anything, and you don't have to have offense to make an ENORMOUS difference in your team.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/7/7d/Dennis5.jpg

Okay I didn't say scoring has more of an impact then a complete game. I said scoring has more of an impact then any other singular aspect because rebounds and great passing don't mean much if they don't lead to actual points.

And yes a complete game is more important and Jordan clearly had that as well.

[TheMan]

Lol - yeah, because Lebron's career is over? Yeah, because they've played the same amount of games? Yeah, because Jordan didn't win after all the 80's legends were old or retired.


Here's a ink for you, bra.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context
That is just some retarded bullshit, just because MJ came into into the league after Bird, Magic, Thomas isn't his fault, I'm tired of that crap about MJ winning after the 80s greats were done, the NBA had greats in the 90s too that were in there prime when MJ was beasting, Barkley, Drexler, Shaq, DRobinson, Payton, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Hakeem etc. I could do the same with LBJ and claim he will start winning now that the guys who dominated the 00s are old or retired and he joined one of them (Wade), Shaq, Duncan, KG, Allen, Pierce, Kobe, Nowitzki etc. There are new players LBJ will have to face in this era of his prime, the old greats get replaced by current greats.:facepalm

[Dengness9]

So, if Lebron wins a title are we going to say it was only after Duncan, Kobe, and the 00s stars got old? You can bring up bullshit like that to dismiss anyone's accomplishments.

I just think its stupid to say that people will never put someone over Jordan cause of commercials and hype. Jordan more then any player in history surpassed his hype, definitely moreso then players like Lebron and Kobe. Nobody gives a sh*t about his commercials. The gap is just that wide. When you can't poke holes into a players' game or his career such as Lebron's 2010 vs. the Celtics, 2011 vs. the Mavs, the fact that he's far from the scorer and defender Jordan was, and if he had all-time great games as often as Jordan did, then you would have a point. In fact, before the 2010 debacle vs. the Celtics, I don't remember anyone dismissing the idea of Lebron possibly ending up better then Jordan. But at that point, he had been in the league for 7 years, most people had seen enough of him and the 2010 series was just so inexcusable most people felt it was safe to conclude he has very little chance of being on that level. And ever since then, despite being a great player, he's reinforced that idea.

People would love to see someone come along and be better then Jordan because that would be an amazing thing to witness. But its not Lebron or Kobe.


La Blakers....shhhh, you're done.

[The_LA_Blakers]

So, if Lebron wins a title are we going to say it was only after Duncan, Kobe, and the 00s stars got old? You can bring up bullshit like that to dismiss anyone's accomplishments.

I just think its stupid to say that people will never put someone over Jordan cause of commercials and hype. Jordan more then any player in history surpassed his hype, definitely moreso then players like Lebron and Kobe. Nobody gives a sh*t about his commercials. The gap is just that wide. When you can't poke holes into a players' game or his career such as Lebron's 2010 vs. the Celtics, 2011 vs. the Mavs, the fact that he's far from the scorer and defender Jordan was, and if he had all-time great games as often as Jordan did, then you would have a point. In fact, before the 2010 debacle vs. the Celtics, I don't remember anyone dismissing the idea of Lebron possibly ending up better then Jordan. But at that point, he had been in the league for 7 years, most people had seen enough of him and the 2010 series was just so inexcusable most people felt it was safe to conclude he has very little chance of being on that level. And ever since then, despite being a great player, he's reinforced that idea.

People would love to see someone come along and be better then Jordan because that would be an amazing thing to witness. But its not Lebron or Kobe.


Whether you accept it or not, if your knowledge of basketball started with MJ, and all you ever see/hear/read is that MJ is the greatest, whether you like it or not that's your default. Michael came in right when basketball went mainstream and cable TV pushed NBA games beyond local TV and Sundays. He was all over the TV and on commercials constantly.


Talk to an old guy who has watched the game since the 60's and you hear a far more objective point of view as opposed to guys in their 20's and 30's trying to argue. It's stupid to even think someone that age could even answer that question.


And it's well accepted that after Larry, Magic, the Pistons, DR J, etc retired, the NBA's quality of competition went straight to ****.

[The_LA_Blakers]

La Blakers....shhhh, you're done.



Your screen name says Deng. You're done. (Hey look, I used your and you're correctly. Don't make me take you to school.)


http://rlv.zcache.com/lol_ur_swag_sweatshirt-r42da2bd1e9f54316918117eb1b9bfa54_f0ya0_400.jpg

[DirtySanchez]

True LeBron is a rare talent.

I don't like the crap that he did going to Miami...but this dude is a beast and I would pay top dollar to see him play live....and root against him. lol

But really he is still young with lots to learn maybe this game is a changing point in his career? I like to see how he does next game. Hopefully we will not all be saying WTF where did he go?

[TheMan]

Whether you accept it or not, if your knowledge of basketball started with MJ, and all you ever see/hear/read is that MJ is the greatest, whether you like it or not that's your default. Michael came in right when basketball went mainstream and cable TV pushed NBA games beyond local TV and Sundays. He was all over the TV and on commercials constantly.


Talk to an old guy who has watched the game since the 60's and you hear a far more objective point of view as opposed to guys in their 20's and 30's trying to argue. It's stupid to even think someone that age could even answer that question.


And it's well accepted that after Larry, Magic, the Pistons, DR J, etc retired, the NBA's quality of competition went straight to ****.
In that case, the Lakers threepeat was crap because they didn't go thru Dr J, Larry's Celtics and Thomas Pistons. Those early 2000 Lakers beat some crap ass teams compared to those 80s teams, Pacers, Nets and 76ers? lol

FYI, the Bulls ended the 80s Pistons and Lakers dynasties.:rockon:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

How did this thread become about MJ?
What is wrong with you people?

[guy]

Whether you accept it or not, if your knowledge of basketball started with MJ, and all you ever see/hear/read is that MJ is the greatest, whether you like it or not that's your default. Michael came in right when basketball went mainstream and cable TV pushed NBA games beyond local TV and Sundays. He was all over the TV and on commercials constantly.

Default? Probably to people that don't really pay that much attention to detail and to the history of the game. But to people that do and are much bigger fans such as the ones on this board, or to actual people that research the game such as all the analysts. No, I think most people point out to him having 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 5 MVPs in the more modern era where the game has reached its peak in popularity and as a result the greatest amount of competition as more of a reason then him being in a bunch of commercials.



Talk to an old guy who has watched the game since the 60's and you hear a far more objective point of view as opposed to guys in their 20's and 30's trying to argue. It's stupid to even think someone that age could even answer that question.

LOL really? Cause I've came across old guys on this board like that think Wilt would put up 40 ppg/20 rpg in this era. Right, so objective.

What about all those analysts on TNT and ESPN and other members of the media that have done a ton of research that are all in their 40s, 50s, and 60s? The majority of those people think that Jordan was the GOAT. I'm sure they are not that ignorant to base that off how many commercials he's in.



And it's well accepted that after Larry, Magic, the Pistons, DR J, etc retired, the NBA's quality of competition went straight to ****.

No its not well accepted, its more of a narrow point of view that some people hold. Those people point to expansion as if the addition of a few teams made such a huge difference and also ignore that the population and the popularity of the game itself expanded so much at that point, meaning a greater talent pool.

[DonDadda59]

Whether you accept it or not, if your knowledge of basketball started with MJ, and all you ever see/hear/read is that MJ is the greatest, whether you like it or not that's your default. Michael came in right when basketball went mainstream and cable TV pushed NBA games beyond local TV and Sundays. He was all over the TV and on commercials constantly.


Talk to an old guy who has watched the game since the 60's and you hear a far more objective point of view as opposed to guys in their 20's and 30's trying to argue. It's stupid to even think someone that age could even answer that question.


And it's well accepted that after Larry, Magic, the Pistons, DR J, etc retired, the NBA's quality of competition went straight to ****.

People need to stop with this whole idea that MJ was just some regular talent who was a 'media creation'. Dude got the commercials and the accolades because he was that good. This isn't a chicken vs egg debate, Jordan's play on the court made him the commercial success that he was. Now compare that to Lebron who got a $100 million Nike contract when he was 17 years old, before he even played a single game as a rookie, and whose HIGH SCHOOL games were being carried in primetime by ESPN.

Now that's a media creation who has still yet to live up to all the hype.

[cteach111]

How did this thread become about MJ?
What is wrong with you people?

GOAT was mentioned. James has a chance to be #1 on the GOAT list. People were assuming the Heat would lose this year, but James is has been keeping this team alive.

[Dengness9]

Your screen name says Deng. You're done. (Hey look, I used your and you're correctly. Don't make me take you to school.)


http://rlv.zcache.com/lol_ur_swag_sweatshirt-r42da2bd1e9f54316918117eb1b9bfa54_f0ya0_400.jpg


You must be some young punk *****. Using the word swag???? Ok little guy.

I used you're correctly, so i don't understand what YOU ARE talking about.

Who cares about correct english/grammar when you actually think LBJ is a better overall player than MJ:roll: :roll: How did you find your way to a NBA message board????

LA Blakers but midwest Location with a Larry Bird avy....:facepalm

I'll take your Mom and sister to Bukkake school. Shut it. Thanks. Now go back to talking about Swag and skinny jeans you hipster.

[The_LA_Blakers]

Default? Probably to people that don't really pay that much attention to detail and to the history of the game. But to people that do and are much bigger fans such as the ones on this board, or to actual people that research the game such as all the analysts. No, I think most people point out to him having 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 5 MVPs in the more modern era where the game has reached its peak in popularity and as a result the greatest amount of competition as more of a reason then him being in a bunch of commercials.



LOL really? Cause I've came across old guys on this board like that think Wilt would put up 40 ppg/20 rpg in this era. Right, so objective.

What about all those analysts on TNT and ESPN and other members of the media that have done a ton of research that are all in their 40s, 50s, and 60s? The majority of those people think that Jordan was the GOAT. I'm sure they are not that ignorant to base that off how many commercials he's in.



No its not well accepted, its more of a narrow point of view that some people hold. Those people point to expansion as if the addition of a few teams made such a huge difference and also ignore that the population and the popularity of the game itself expanded so much at that point, meaning a greater talent pool.


Lol -- get off of the commercials man. That was just part of my point. I brought up several other things.


And those analysts all played at the same time as Jordan! lol


And old guys who say that about Wilt aren't the ones I'm talking about. They're just guys who have the same view of Wilt as young people have of Jordan.

I talked to a guy in his mid 50's once who gave me the best **** explanation of who he thought was the best of all time and he's been watching the game for 40-50 years. He actually talked about Michael without getting stars in his eyes or jizz on his jeans. He talked about the 80's legends and how each one changed a dynamic of their team/the game. He talked about Kareem and how unstoppable he was.

That's what I'm talking about, not some 65 yr old dude who hasn't watched the NBA since the '86 Celtics won it all.

[Bladers]

Not to mention he defended Paul pierce like a baws!

He didn't defend pierce at all. Spo took him from pierce 5 mins into the first Qtr. infact he has hardly defended pierce this series.

[cteach111]

You must be some young punk *****. Using the word swag???? Ok little guy.

I used you're correctly, so i don't understand what you are talking about.

Who cares about correct english/grammar when you actually think LBJ is a better overall player than MJ:roll: :roll: How did you find your way to a NBA message board.

LA Blakers but midwest Location with a Larry Bird avy....:facepalm

I'll take your Mom and sister to Bukkake school. Shut it. Thanks. Now go back to talking about Swag and skinny jeans you hipster.

Lebron is just as good a player as MJ was. He's been proving it time and time again this postseason.

[triangleoffense]

Jordan has 38 40+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He has 28 40+/5+/5+ playoff games vs. Lebron's 11. He also has 8 50+ point playoff games vs. Lebron's 0. Not to mention 6 rings vs. 0. No, its not cause of commercials and hype, and its getting ridiculous how much people think that. The gap is just that wide. One great game doesn't change that. Same thing goes for the Kobe comparisons to Jordan. On one hand, its great to see players have games like that, especially for players like Lebron where they actually have performances where comparing his performance to Jordan is actually justified. On the other hand, it reinforces the overrating of him cause people actually think this means Lebron is better or equal or on his way to being equal or better then Jordan, completely ignoring that Jordan and others have had performances like this and ignoring some of the reasons why we don't put him on that level, at least yet, specifically the horrible disappointing performances he's had fairly recently. Let Lebron win a ring first and then let him get 5 more with this kind of playoff run before we start saying that. By the way, him being 27 and Jordan at 27 is not the same. Lebron is the oldest 27 year old to ever play. Why do people keep ignoring that?

Yep pretty much this.

Jordan transcended the game, people who literally have never watched a basketball game in their life knew who Michael Jordan was, and he didn't just get there by clever advertising (although he used it to his advantage no doubt).

Jordan was the most complete basketball player that I've ever seen, and I've been playing and watching basketball since I was literally 5. Some of my earliest memories are that of watching finals games on TV with my dad.

If you make a checklist of all of the criteria that HOF/GOAT candidates have to have in order to be considered MJ would fulfill every single one of those checkmarks. MVP, FMVP, DPOY, big time performances that are iconic 20 years later. The flu game, the shrug, Marv Albert's "oh what a spectacular move!", all long lasting images that will continue to resonate throughout basketball history. There was no weakness to a game and to top it off he dominated as a scoring leader, during a time when people thought that "scoring leaders don't become champions".

Jordan wasn't just handed the keys to the league like Lebron has been ever since he got drafted out of high school. Jordan had to work for minutes at UNC and then prove himself again as the 3rd pick of the draft. Jordan also got hit harder every time down the court and his will to win is second to none. Everything about him screams excellence and it wasn't just on the court as well.

Even today what other people say about him are iconic in their own right. Bird calling MJ god, Bobby Knight telling portland to "play jordan at center" when told that they were going with Bowie instead of Michael. Not only is Jordan recognized as the GOAT by the corporate media but he is the consensus GOAT among his peers as well, the new generation and his predecessors all give him that title.



I talked to a guy in his mid 50's once who gave me the best **** explanation of who he thought was the best of all time and he's been watching the game for 40-50 years. He actually talked about Michael without getting stars in his eyes or jizz on his jeans. he talked about the 80's legends and how each one changed a dynamic of their team/the game. he talked about Kareem and how unstoppable he was.

Of course he said that, since 80s basketball was the brand of basketball that he watched growing up. There is always going to be a generational bias but MJ's achievements are commentators are universal. West, Dr.J, Magic, Bird, Russell, all have said MJ was the best. Was West and Russell being bias in their approach then? No because they actually try to look at the game from an unbias perspective. Russell could have said Wilt was the best to prop up his achievements but he didn't, same with West, Bird or Magic. And it's not just players either, do a coaches poll of NCAA and NBA coaches and ask them who is GOAT and i guarantee you the vast majority will vote MJ.

[Dengness9]

Lebron is just as good a player as MJ was. He's been proving it time and time again this postseason.


I could give you a real response, but why would I do that for the newest Troll of ISH???

You can't back that argument up in anyway, shape, or form. You already guaranteed two Heat wins that ended up being losses and you actually "bet your life savings" of semen soaked tube socks and playgirl magazines.

Idiot.

[The_LA_Blakers]

You must be some young punk *****. Using the word swag???? Ok little guy.

I used you're correctly, so i don't understand what YOU ARE talking about.

Who cares about correct english/grammar when you actually think LBJ is a better overall player than MJ:roll: :roll: How did you find your way to a NBA message board????

LA Blakers but midwest Location with a Larry Bird avy....:facepalm

I'll take your Mom and sister to Bukkake school. Shut it. Thanks. Now go back to talking about Swag and skinny jeans you hipster.


My bird avy was made for you, bra. Shhhhhhhhh

You want my moms and sister? You dirty man, have at em, but you nasty.

And I never said LBJ was a better player, i said he is a more complete player (which he is, hes a better passer and rebounder and arguably a better defender) , and I said comparing them now while LBJ is still playing in his prime and hasn't won anything will get dumb*** responses like this.

You keep proving my original post right and you don't even know it!

[RaininTwos]

People need to stop with this whole idea that MJ was just some regular talent who was a 'media creation'. Dude got the commercials and the accolades because he was that good. This isn't a chicken vs egg debate, Jordan's play on the court made him the commercial success that he was. Now compare that to Lebron who got a $100 million Nike contract when he was 17 years old, before he even played a single game as a rookie, and whose HIGH SCHOOL games were being carried in primetime by ESPN.

Now that's a media creation who has still yet to live up to all the hype.

Come on dude. Lebron is "that good" as well. He's lived up to the hype. He's already a top 20 player, unless people were expecting him to get the greatest ever, he's lived up to it. He's one of the few to ever to do that.

[It's A VC3!!!]

The problem I have with LeBron is well documented. He needs to have the elimination game mentality every game. Secondly, he needs to ****ing stop trying to pad or beautify his stats. I litteraly do not give on **** about his assist numbers. Just go out and score the damn ball dude. Your a natural born scoring machine. I don't want you running down the court and saying to yourself "let me add another assist here so my stats look better". I enjoy watching him when he has last nights mentality. He's the leading scorer in elimination games because he plays different in elimination games. He shouldn't do that. His performance last night was extremely dominant thogh.:applause:

[DonDadda59]

Come on dude. Lebron is "that good" as well. He's lived up to the hype. He's already a top 20 player, unless people were expecting him to get the greatest ever, he's lived up to it. He's one of the few to ever to do that.

Plenty were/still are, how do you think he got the 'Chosen One' moniker? And I'm not here to deny Lebron's talent. Just pointing out the fallacy in people saying Jordan was a media creation when it was Lebron who got a $100 million Nike contract when he was still in high school, meanwhile at that same age Jordan was just trying to make the varsity squad. MJ turned himself into a global icon with his exploits on the court, Lebron was handed even more media hype on a silver platter and thus far the results have not been the same.

But Bron has time and he's got all star teammates, let's see what he can do with that in the next few years.

General question- If the Heat make the finals and Lebron chokes again or worse yet, he's clearly outplayed by Durant, then how do you think that will effect his legacy?

[The_LA_Blakers]

Of course he said that, since 80s basketball was the brand of basketball that he watched growing up. There is always going to be a generational bias but MJ's achievements are commentators are universal. West, Dr.J, Magic, Bird, Russell, all have said MJ was the best. Was West and Russell being bias in their approach then? No because they actually try to look at the game from an unbias perspective. Russell could have said Wilt was the best to prop up his achievements but he didn't, same with West, Bird or Magic. And it's not just players either, do a coaches poll of NCAA and NBA coaches and ask them who is GOAT and i guarantee you the vast majority will vote MJ.


He talked about guys from the 60's and 70's, too. Wilt, Kareem, Russel, etc.


You guys are hilarious - not an objective bone in your body.

[triangleoffense]

He talked about guys from the 60's and 70's, too. Wilt, Kareem, Russel, etc.


You guys are hilarious - not an objective bone in your body.
Please reread what i posted, and then try to post something that makes sense, and then kill yourself.

[The_LA_Blakers]

Please reread what i posted, and then try to post something that makes sense, and then kill yourself.



Is that all you got? well, that and the triangle offense?


www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD3z4_crmko#t=0m20s



And your last post was absolute ****. To talk about the GOAT, you have to bring up other players that compare to him, not just other players that talk about him you DB! That's why you and all of the other morons have no legitimate argument, y'all don't even bring anyone else up!

[TheMan]

Lebron is just as good a player as MJ was. He's been proving it time and time again this postseason.
No, just stop.

[guy]

Lol -- get off of the commercials man. That was just part of my point. I brought up several other things.


And those analysts all played at the same time as Jordan! lol


And old guys who say that about Wilt aren't the ones I'm talking about. They're just guys who have the same view of Wilt as young people have of Jordan.

I talked to a guy in his mid 50's once who gave me the best **** explanation of who he thought was the best of all time and he's been watching the game for 40-50 years. He actually talked about Michael without getting stars in his eyes or jizz on his jeans. he talked about the 80's legends and how each one changed a dynamic of their team/the game. he talked about Kareem and how unstoppable he was.

That's what I'm talking about, not some 65 yr old dude who hasn't watched the NBA since the '86 Celtics won it all.

And alot of those analysts didn't play at the same time, and alot of them didn't play PERIOD.

Jordan didn't have an impact on the dynamic of his team? :roll:

Whether you like it or not, there are people from every age group that favor towards their era. Even the older people. So your point is irrelevant cause its the same across the board. With that said, I've read and heard more people that have no reason to be nothing but objective say Jordan was the GOAT over everyone else.

I wasn't even trying to turn this into a Jordan vs. Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc. thread, cause the fact is all of them are about on the same level. I was referring to your comparison of Lebron to Jordan, and how the majority of people saying he's not on the same level is not a result of the media. Thats insanely stupid. Its just that he's better. Lebron is much more of a media creation then Jordan ever was. If he had won the last 2 titles in the dominating fashion like most favored him to, they probably would crown him as GOAT already or at least say he was on his way, but they just don't have the results to back that up.

[cteach111]

Jordan wasn't just handed the keys to the league like Lebron has been ever since he got drafted out of high school. Jordan had to work for minutes at UNC and then prove himself again as the 3rd pick of the draft. Jordan also got hit harder every time down the court and his will to win is second to none. Everything about him screams excellence and it wasn't just on the court as well.


This shouldn't be used as an argument against Lebron though. It's merely a consequence of the times.

[The_LA_Blakers]

And alot of those analysts didn't play at the same time, and alot of them didn't play PERIOD.

Jordan didn't have an impact on the dynamic of his team? :roll:

Whether you like it or not, there are people from every age group that favor towards their era. Even the older people. So your point is irrelevant cause its the same across the board. With that said, I've read and heard more people that have no reason to be nothing but objective say Jordan was the GOAT over everyone else.

I wasn't even trying to turn this into a Jordan vs. Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc. thread, cause the fact is all of them are about on the same level. I was referring to your comparison of Lebron to Jordan, and how the majority of people saying he's not on the same level is not a result of the media. Thats insanely stupid. Its just that he's better. Lebron is much more of a media creation then Jordan ever was. If he had won the last 2 titles in the dominating fashion like most favored him to, they probably would crown him as GOAT already or at least say he was on his way, but they just don't have the results to back that up.


Who said he didn't? Now you're looking more stupid. Lebron more of a media creation? Jordan got more media exposure than Lebron!


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[triangleoffense]

And alot of those analysts didn't play at the same time, and alot of them didn't play PERIOD.

Jordan didn't have an impact on the dynamic of his team? :roll:

Whether you like it or not, there are people from every age group that favor towards their era. Even the older people. So your point is irrelevant cause its the same across the board. With that said, I've read and heard more people that have no reason to be nothing but objective say Jordan was the GOAT over everyone else.

I wasn't even trying to turn this into a Jordan vs. Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc. thread, cause the fact is all of them are about on the same level. I was referring to your comparison of Lebron to Jordan, and how the majority of people saying he's not on the same level is not a result of the media. Thats insanely stupid. Its just that he's better. Lebron is much more of a media creation then Jordan ever was. If he had won the last 2 titles in the dominating fashion like most favored him to, they probably would crown him as GOAT already or at least say he was on his way, but they just don't have the results to back that up.

I wouldn't bother with this poster, obviously trolling. I wrote a couple of paragraphs in response because I thought he was legitimately trying to make a case but he's clearly trolling at this point.

[cteach111]

I wouldn't bother with this poster, obviously trolling. I wrote a couple of paragraphs in response because I thought he was legitimately trying to make a case but he's clearly trolling at this point.

why is he a troll simply because he sees things differently from your viewpoint?

[Dengness9]

My bird avy was made for you, bra. Shhhhhhhhh

You want my moms and sister? You dirty man, have at em, but you nasty.

And I never said LBJ was a better player, i said he is a more complete player (which he is, hes a better passer and rebounder and arguably a better defender) , and I said comparing them now while LBJ is still playing in his prime and hasn't won anything will get dumb*** responses like this.

You keep proving my original post right and you don't even know it!


Sorry I can't have a conversation with someone who says Lebron is a more complete player. You clearly have no true knowledge of basketball.

A more complete player than MJ doesn't shrink 8.9 pts down to 17.8 in the finals. Idiot.

[guy]

Who said he didn't? Now you're looking more stupid. Lebron more of a media creation? Jordan got more media exposure than Lebron!

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

You can't be serious? They were nationally televising this guy's HS games. Jordan didn't get more media exposure cause of the difference in the media. But all of his media exposure was only received after he EARNED it. I'm not really even saying Lebron is a media creation, because the fact is he's an amazing player. But if either of them should be considered a media creation, its clearly Lebron just cause he wasn't as good, his hype before the NBA was alot greater, and he hasn't accomplished nearly as much at this point.

[triangleoffense]

why is he a troll simply because he sees things differently from your viewpoint?
Obviously not. Because he's responding to well thought out arguments with 1 or 2 liners. Because instead of focusing on the argument he changes the topic to the credibility of the poster while also giving no supporting evidence or even an argument.

And finally, because he posted this?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD3z4_crmko#t=0m20s

[cteach111]

No, just stop.

but why not? When has Jordan at any point in time had to carry a lackluster roster like Lebron has through this postseason?

Jordan's primary responsibility was to score the ball and to a lesser degree, play distributor. Lebron's doing everything on the court for his team with Wade not even playing at the same level as Pippen at his best. Pippen was giving his team all-world defense with pretty good offense (approximately matching Wade's production). Bosh has been injured for a good deal of this postseason.

Jordan never won in the fashion that Lebron is about to. It's more impressive in my eyes what he's doing right now.

[Scholar]

did Rondo also move up on your GOAT list after his 44 pts performance in gm 2?

Overreaction thread, LBJ should be dominating like this, he has a long way to go to reach the upper echelon of the All Time greats list.

OTOH, if he has a clunker in gm 7, watch people here in ISH call him the biggest overhyped player ever :facepalm

This.

[LBJDW305]

Lebron really is a special player....people don't realize how different the media is Is today compared to 15 years ago....IMAGINE Jordan in place of lebron being 28 with zero rings. Last night was just another great performance from this kid in these playoffs. Jordan never won until he had a COMPLETE team.

[The_LA_Blakers]

Obviously not. Because he's responding to well thought out arguments with 1 or 2 liners. Because instead of focusing on the argument he changes the topic to the credibility of the poster while also giving no supporting evidence or even an argument.

And finally, because he posted this?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD3z4_crmko#t=0m20s


I posted several times with my thoughts, but when it comes to posters like you who won't hear it any other way, it's not worth me trying to argue about it because you won't hear any point I make. And if I make a valid point, you won't take it serious, you'll just tell me to kill myself.

Why should I waste my time?


And I posted that link because that's what I did when I read that post - I lol.

[Dengness9]

Lebron really is a special player....people don't realize how different the media is Is today compared to 15 years ago....IMAGINE Jordan in place of lebron being 28 with zero rings. Last night was just another great performance from this kid in these playoffs. Jordan never won until he had a COMPLETE team.


Jordan never won until the team he stuck with finally gained enough experience together after losing to the Bad Boys 3 straight years. Lebron tried to take a shortcut and it still hasn't worked yet.

[Dengness9]

but why not? When has Jordan at any point in time had to carry a lackluster roster like Lebron has through this postseason?

Jordan's primary responsibility was to score the ball and to a lesser degree, play distributor. Lebron's doing everything on the court for his team with Wade not even playing at the same level as Pippen at his best. Pippen was giving his team all-world defense with pretty good offense (approximately matching Wade's production). Bosh has been injured for a good deal of this postseason.

Jordan never won in the fashion that Lebron is about to. It's more impressive in my eyes what he's doing right now.


You can't back that argument up in anyway, shape, or form. You already guaranteed two Heat wins that ended up being losses and you actually "bet your life savings" of semen soaked tube socks and playgirl magazines.

Idiot.

[The_LA_Blakers]

You can't be serious? They were nationally televising this guy's HS games. Jordan didn't get more media exposure cause of the difference in the media. But all of his media exposure was only received after he EARNED it. I'm not really even saying Lebron is a media creation, because the fact is he's an amazing player. But if either of them should be considered a media creation, its clearly Lebron just cause he wasn't as good, his hype before the NBA was alot greater, and he hasn't accomplished nearly as much at this point.



That's the same argument you're using! You're saying Jordan earned his media attention -- well what did Lebron do? He just earned it at a much earlier age.


And wasn't Jordan 27 when he won his first ring? And he didn't come into the same situation as Lebron. And Lebron surely didn't have prime Phil jackson, a top 50 all-time partner like Pippen, maybe the best pure rebounder of all time, not to mention the best european player.

[Kurosawa0]

LeBron's one of the greatest players ever. That's no longer debatable.

However, he's not MJ. Stop it.

[Nevaeh]

Whether you accept it or not, if your knowledge of basketball started with MJ, and all you ever see/hear/read is that MJ is the greatest, whether you like it or not that's your default. Michael came in right when basketball went mainstream and cable TV pushed NBA games beyond local TV and Sundays. He was all over the TV and on commercials constantly.


Talk to an old guy who has watched the game since the 60's and you hear a far more objective point of view as opposed to guys in their 20's and 30's trying to argue. It's stupid to even think someone that age could even answer that question.


And it's well accepted that after Larry, Magic, the Pistons, DR J, etc retired, the NBA's quality of competition went straight to ****.

Dude, you don't have to be a 70 year old man to know that Lebron is not on MJ's level. And if you are a 70 year old man who thinks that, it just means it's time for your medication.
:oldlol:

[LBJDW305]

Cleveland was never going to make The moves they had to make...would you stick in the same shitty job that's always going to be the same or switch to a job that can be more successful and be the best?

[The_LA_Blakers]

Jordan never won until the team he stuck with finally gained enough experience together after losing to the Bad Boys 3 straight years. Lebron tried to take a shortcut and it still hasn't worked yet.


This is the second year, and they were within inches last year. Weak argument. Weak as hell.

[LBJDW305]

This guy showed that killer instinct yesterday. He wanted the ball he wanted to kill them himself..he's known as a choke artist and look what he did yesterday with all the pressure in the world. No player EVER has had the pressure on him as lebron last night. In an elimination game IN BOSTON. I'm 50/50 I call out lebron ALOT but yesterday was just a game I'm glad I was able to witness.

[Legends66NBA7]

Dude, you don't have to be a 70 year old man to know that Lebron is not on MJ's level.

But Nev, just watch.

If the Heat make it to the Finals, there's going be talk again about not only LeBron on Jordan's level, but them trying to push "LeBron is better than Jordan" talks as well (they will also believe that people will disregard what happened in his past Finals, conveniently.)

Watch the hype happen, if the Heat win game 7. I can only imagine what happens if the Heat win this whole thing and LeBron plays at his best during the Finals... comparisons and "he's better than Jordan" talk will be all over the forum and other online sites.

[DonDadda59]

Who said he didn't? Now you're looking more stupid. Lebron more of a media creation? Jordan got more media exposure than Lebron!


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Because he proved himself on the court and his transcendent brilliance turned the NBA/basketball into a global phenomena. Again... Lebron was handed a $100 million contract when he was 17 years old, and they dubbed him 'the Chosen One' before he played a single NBA game. If his game was as appealing and if he was racking up championships instead of choking in the finals, he might get the same treatment. I mean ESPN is just waiting to crown him GOAT, but he hasn't given them the excuse yet. They jumped the gun last year before the finals and it blew up in their faces :oldlol:


but why not? When has Jordan at any point in time had to carry a lackluster roster like Lebron has through this postseason?

You can't be serious :oldlol:

Better question is- how many championships do you think Jordan would've had if he quit on his team and ran away to join forces with Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkley? My guess is he could at least muster up more than 8 points in a finals game and not completely disappear in the fourth. But I guess we'll never know.

[Dengness9]

This is the second year, and they were within inches last year. Weak argument. Weak as hell.


They were actually within 2 games not inches. Weak argument. Weak as hell.

LEBRON IS THE REASON THE HEAT LOST THE FINALS!!!! Do you actually disagree with that? The best player on the planet reduced to 17.8 ppg and disappearing in the 4th quarter like clockwork every game?!?!

Jason Terry said he was gonna outplay Lebron and he did!!!

You think MJ would get punked like that in the finals???? NOT NEVER. How about the english bitch?

[Dengness9]

Because he proved himself on the court and his transcendent brilliance turned the NBA/basketball into a global phenomena. Again... Lebron was handed a $100 million contract when he was 17 years old, and they dubbed him 'the Chosen One' before he played a single NBA game. If his game was as appealing and if he was racking up championships instead of choking in the finals, he might get the same treatment. I mean ESPN is just waiting to crown him GOAT, but he hasn't given them the excuse yet. They jumped the gun last year before the finals and it blew up in their faces :oldlol:



You can't be serious :oldlol:

Better question is- how many championships do you think Jordan would've had if he quit on his team and ran away to join forces with Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkley? My guess is he could at least muster up more than 8 points in a finals game and not completely disappear in the fourth. But I guess we'll never know.

SHHHHHHHH!!!!! Stop killin em man.

[Kurosawa0]

Better question is- how many championships do you think Jordan would've had if he quit on his team and ran away to join forces with Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkley? My guess is he could at least muster up more than 8 points in a finals game and not completely disappear in the fourth. But I guess we'll never know.

You do know that in 1990 MJ asked the Bulls to be traded to the Knicks so that he could play with Ewing, right?

[Nevaeh]

But Nev, just watch.

If the Heat make it to the Finals, there's going be talk again about not only LeBron on Jordan's level, but them trying to push "LeBron is better than Jordan" talks as well (they will also believe that people will disregard what happened in his past Finals, conveniently.)

Watch the hype happen, if the Heat win game 7. I can only imagine what happens if the Heat win this whole thing and LeBron plays at his best during the Finals... comparisons and "he's better than Jordan" talk will be all over the forum and other online sites.

Yeah, I guess that was the point being made earlier, as far as how older analysts can be more objective in how they view a player, and in some cases they are right. It does however get irksome, when peeps try to diminish what Jordan accomplished as just "commercial driven" or "hype" though.

Jordan was defeating DIRECT PEERS on his way to NBA Titles. Not players in the twilight of their careers (35+ yrs old) and not players who were just getting started (22+ yrs old). He wasn't silver spooned titles, and he didn't join direct competition (like say, Ewing) to take pressure off of himself.

You let revisionist tell it, you'd think Jordan won with the 87 Lakers cast his entire career. As for Lebron, once again like last year, we shall see what he's made of, and how bad he wants it. Because if he lets Durant undercut him this year, and Wade's not 100% next year, it will NOT be a good look for him.

[The_LA_Blakers]

They were actually within 2 games not inches. Weak argument. Weak as hell.

LEBRON IS THE REASON THE HEAT LOST THE FINALS!!!! Do you actually disagree with that? The best player on the planet reduced to 17.8 ppg and disappearing in the 4th quarter like clockwork every game?!?!

Jason Terry said he was gonna outplay Lebron and he did!!!

You think MJ would get punked like that in the finals???? NOT NEVER. How about the english bitch?


They let the Mavs complete a huge comeback or it would have been 3-0, and the series would have been over.

[The_LA_Blakers]

You do know that in 1990 MJ asked the Bulls to be traded to the Knicks so that he could play with Ewing, right?



Ohhhh man.

[Dengness9]

You do know that in 1990 MJ asked the Bulls to be traded to the Knicks so that he could play with Ewing, right?



Prove it

[Dengness9]

They let the Mavs complete a huge comeback or it would have been 3-0, and the series would have been over.


Sorry, not interested in "would have been's"....

[Dragonyeuw]

Lol - yeah, because Lebron's career is over? Yeah, because they've played the same amount of games? Yeah, because Jordan didn't win after all the 80's legends were old or retired.




Is it Jordan's fault that he didn't have a good enough TEAM around him till the Lakers and Celtics were past their prime? Last I checked, Jordan still took out Magic one year removed from an MVP award( at 31 years old), the Pistons one year removed from a title( Isiah was 30, Dumars 28, Rodman 30, etc etc). Not exactly washed up. Are we gonna act like he didn't go through prime Barkley, prime Ewing, prime Shaq and Penny, prime Payton and Kemp, close to prime Malone and Stockton, and prime Drexler's Trailblazers( who would be beasts today) enroute to his championships? Are we saying he only beat scrubs?

By that logic, you'd have to say that if Lebron wins this year( or in the future) he couldn't do it till the 00' legends like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, etc were old or retired. He couldn't get it done last year, against a 32 year old Dirk, a 50 year Jason Kidd, a 40 year old Jason Terry, and he had prime Wade and Bosh on his side.

[The_LA_Blakers]

Is it Jordan's fault that he didn't have a good enough TEAM around him till the Lakers and Celtics were past their prime? Last I checked, Jordan still took out Magic one year removed from an MVP award( at 31 years old), the Pistons one year removed from a title( Isiah was 30, Dumars 28, Rodman 30, etc etc). Not exactly washed up. Are we gonna act like he didn't go through prime Barkley, prime Ewing, prime Shaq and Penny, prime Payton and Kemp, close to prime Malone and Stockton, and prime Drexler's Trailblazers( who would be beasts today) enroute to his championships? Are we saying he only beat scrubs?

By that logic, you'd have to say that if Lebron wins this year( or in the future) he couldn't do it till the 00' legends like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, etc were old or retired. He couldn't get it done last year, against a 32 year old Dirk, a 50 year Jason Kidd, a 40 year old Jason Terry, and he had prime Wade and Bosh on his side.


You mean when he got HIV? That year?


Wow...just wow...

[blablabla]

You do know that in 1990 MJ asked the Bulls to be traded to the Knicks so that he could play with Ewing, right?
that would have been the greatest duo ever

[Nevaeh]

By that logic, you'd have to say that if Lebron wins this year( or in the future) he couldn't do it till the 00' legends like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, etc were old or retired. He couldn't get it done last year, against a 32 year old Dirk, a 50 year Jason Kidd, a 40 year old Jason Terry, and he had prime Wade and Bosh on his side.

I know you're being funny, but it's lines like this that spawn the "Jordan was only clutch against slow white guys" type rebuttals.
http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[cteach111]

Because he proved himself on the court and his transcendent brilliance turned the NBA/basketball into a global phenomena. Again... Lebron was handed a $100 million contract when he was 17 years old, and they dubbed him 'the Chosen One' before he played a single NBA game. If his game was as appealing and if he was racking up championships instead of choking in the finals, he might get the same treatment. I mean ESPN is just waiting to crown him GOAT, but he hasn't given them the excuse yet. They jumped the gun last year before the finals and it blew up in their faces :oldlol:



You can't be serious :oldlol:

Better question is- how many championships do you think Jordan would've had if he quit on his team and ran away to join forces with Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkley? My guess is he could at least muster up more than 8 points in a finals game and not completely disappear in the fourth. But I guess we'll never know.

your entire argument is based around what Lebron might do or what he could be. You also think that he hasn't deserved his hype but that's not exactly his fault is it?

Any player that has the type of talent that Lebron has will automatically generate hype through no fault of their own. It's simply a new era in the game because of the player that came before these guys. It's silly to hold that against him when he has no control over it.

So, yeah, we'll see what Lebron does from this point forward. You can hold 2011 against him even though if you look at the stats (basic & advanced), he flat out wasn't playing at the level he was playing at now or in 2009/2010. Whatever James was going through last year, he's obviously not dealing with it now.

Even if the Heat lose this year, how are you going to hold that against him? He's had an epic postseason unlike last year which was clearly inferior to the stuff he's doing now. He was simply out of character last season.

[Nevaeh]

You mean when he got HIV? That year?


Wow...just wow...

Dude, HIV is not some crippling type ailment like a sprained ankle or pulled hamstring. It certainly didn't stop Magic from returning to the Finals as the "Runner-UP MVP either.

[Dragonyeuw]

You mean when he got HIV? That year?


Wow...just wow...

Yeah, the year he averaged 19.4 points, 12. 5 assists, 7.0 rebounds.

That year.

[The_LA_Blakers]

Dude, HIV is not some crippling type ailment like a sprained ankle or pulled hamstring. It certainly didn't stop Magic from returning to the Finals as the "Runner-UP MVP either.



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Nevaeh]

You do know that in 1990 MJ asked the Bulls to be traded to the Knicks so that he could play with Ewing, right?

Even if that were true, the fact is he didn't join Ewing, and proceeded to defeat Ewing's Knicks for 3 straight years, in route to 3 straight championships.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, the year he averaged 19.4 points, 12. 5 assists, 7.0 rebounds.

That year.

Not only that, he was runner up for MVP.

Jordan has faced the MVP or the runner up for MVP in 5 of his 6 Finals.

[Dragonyeuw]

Not only that, he was runner up for MVP.

Jordan has faced the MVP or the runner up for MVP in 5 of his 6 Finals.

Exactly. And in 91, you had guys like Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler, Hakeem, Admiral at or near peak/prime. And he still finished MVP runnerup. Washed up :facepalm

He wasn't 87 Magic, but dudes trying to act like Magic wasn't a top 5 player in 91.

[Nevaeh]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Return to the NBA FINALS AS THE RUNNER-UP MVP. I'm sorry, I must have missed how many times Marv Albert and Mike Fratello were bringing up Magic's "HIV" as a reason he wasn't 100% against the Bulls that year.:facepalm

[Nevaeh]

Exactly. And in 91, you had guys like Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler, Hakeem, Admiral at or near peak/prime. And he still finished MVP runnerup. Washed up :facepalm

He wasn't 87 Magic, but dudes trying to act like Magic wasn't a top 5 player in 91.

Not to mention Magic actually came out of retirement for the 95-96 season to play with his "Crippling, Debilitating" HIV virus.

LA Blakers got the right name, because everything he's posting is flopping all over the place.
:oldlol:

[The_LA_Blakers]

Not to mention Magic actually came out of retirement for the 95-96 season to play with his "Crippling, Debilitating" HIV virus.

LA Blakers got the right name, because everything he's posting is flopping all over the place.
:oldlol:





Never heard anything so dumb as "Dude, HIV is not some crippling type ailment like a sprained ankle or pulled hamstring."

[DonDadda59]

You do know that in 1990 MJ asked the Bulls to be traded to the Knicks so that he could play with Ewing, right?

yup, i remember the press conferences and championship parades he, jordan, and clyde had before they played a game together and them promising an easy road to 10 championships... Oh wait, what actually happpened was jordan stayed on the bulls and proceeded to pull ewing's heart out of his chest while yelling 'kali ma!' for the next decade en route to 6 rings.

But running away like a bitch to play with him would've been just as great. To each his own, right?

[rhythmic]

:biggums:
Let's see:

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Larry
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem
11. Moses
12. Oscar
13. LeBron
14. West
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Isiah Thomas
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone

That's how I'd rank it. I'd definitely take LeBron over anyone in the 17-20 range. It's tough with West, Baylor and Dr. J. I'd still probably take LeBron there and definitely if he gets a ring.

It's basically where I had Kobe pre-2009.

This makes him the most overrated player in sports history then.
Yeah lets crown him better then Jerry West...:facepalm

[Nevaeh]

You don't even deserve another response.


Never heard anything so dumb as "Dude, HIV is not some crippling type ailment like a sprained ankle or pulled hamstring."


That is seriously the dumbest thing anyone has said in any capacity in the history of humanity.


Congrats, you get the award.


http://discourseincsharpminor.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/dumb-ass-award.jpg

Right, because Magic was forced to play in a wheelchair during the 91 Finals.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Don't get mad at me because Magic HIMSELF shot a hole in your argument, based on how well he played the game, even after his return in 95.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/confusedshrug.gif

[Kurosawa0]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Kurosawa0]

yup, i remember the press conferences and championship parades he, jordan, and clyde had before they played a game together and them promising an easy road to 10 championships... Oh wait, what actually happpened was jordan stayed on the bulls and proceeded to pull ewing's heart out of his chest while yelling 'kali ma!' for the next decade en route to 6 rings.

But running away like a bitch to play with him would've been just as great. To each his own, right?

I really wonder if all of you are 14 years old. :facepalm

[quick96]

LeHype moved up my list too.

BEFORE:
1565) Boston Celtic Water Boy 1 Ring
1566) Mark Madsen 2 Rings
1567) LeHype James 0 Rings

NOW:
1565) Boston Celtic Water Boy 1 Ring
1566) LeHype James 0 Rings
1567) Mark Madsen 2 Rings

[eliteballer]

You'd think no player as ever had a 40 point playoff game the way people are talking

[quick96]

You'd think no player as ever had a 40 point playoff game the way people are talking

Precisely my point..

Some peeps on here are FREAKING PATHETIC man!

:cheers:

:banana:

[Magic 32]

So Lebron had a Charles Barkley top 10ish game and his fans goes nuts. :facepalm

[RaininTwos]

did Rondo also move up on your GOAT list after his 44 pts performance in gm 2?

Overreaction thread, LBJ should be dominating like this, he has a long way to go to reach the upper echelon of the All Time greats list.

OTOH, if he has a clunker in gm 7, watch people here in ISH call him the biggest overhyped player ever :facepalm

No one SHOULD be dominating like this, this is so rare. Only the greatest of the greats do this kinda stuff. Stop underrating his performance.

[LBJ 23]

You'd think no player as ever had a 40 point playoff game the way people are talking


Well it's natural from his fans to react like this, for two whole seasons they're hearing how he can't handle the pressure and how mentally weak he is. And with that game against Indiana and now against Boston he did excatly what he wasn't supposed to do. Destroy the opponent in the most crucial part of the series.

And I'm sure you know that that game was more than just a ''40 point playoff game''. For any other player that would be just a ''40 point playoff game'' but for Lebron in those circumstances I think it's more than that.

[quick96]

So Lebron had a Charles Barkley top 10ish game and his fans goes nuts. :facepalm

Preciously said!

I'll raise your comment a double :facepalm :facepalm

and a :cheers: with you man.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

c'mon people, give the dude some credit.
It was not just a matter of scoring 45 points (which is awesome in itself).
It was utter domination. He blew them out. Hell, if he didn't crush Boston so badly, he would have stayed in the game and ended up with a double nickle.

credit where due....otherwise you are simply being a bitch.

[Nevaeh]

c'mon people, give the dude some credit.
It was not just a matter of scoring 45 points (which is awesome in itself).
It was utter domination. He blew them out. Hell, if he didn't crush Boston so badly, he would have stayed in the game and ended up with a double nickle.

credit where due....otherwise you are simply being a bitch.

I don't think it's the game itself that's the problem. It's how a single game, which basically only kept your team in Playoff contention, can suddenly "bump you up" on the GOAT list. Troll Threads get Troll responses, and deservedly so.

[TheMan]

You'd think no player as ever had a 40 point playoff game the way people are talking
This

I already called this an overreaction thread, LBJ was a beast last night but that's how he should be killing since he is, you know, the MVP and best player today.

MJ has tons more games of 40 plus and 50 plus games, even dropped 63 on one of the greatest teams in NBA history. LBJ has to do a lot more of what he did last night, win NBA titles and FMVPs to be considered up there with the elite GOAT players. Let's wait and see what he does from here on out and stop overreacting after a dominating game...chill the fvck out, LeBronytes:lol