Jordan/Pippen kept Isiah Thomas off USA basketball Dream Team?

[Knicksfever2010]

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/isiah_ripped_in_dream_team_documentary_TD0ozHEdv1l 58aqTplLGGI

They claimed that isiah spearheaded 'bad boys' and rough play. WOW REALLY? There is a reason why only the toughest MEN succeed in basketball. Last I checked, its not daisies and daiquiris.

*I'm sorry, but jordan/pippen come off as having sour grapes because they couldnt handle the rough-n-tough style of play.

[andgar923]

NO.

It was MJ.

MJ didn't like Zeke for icing him in the all star game.

[Da_Realist]

“That was one of the stipulations put to me that Isiah wasn’t part of the team,’’ Jordan said. “I was getting strong innuendos it wasn’t just…it was coming from a higher place who didn’t want Isiah on the team.’’

In light of When the Game Was Ours (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/276748-when-the-game-was-ours-stirs-controversy-amongst-past-nba-stars)...I wonder if the "higher place" was Magic Johnson.

I just don't believe Isiah walking off the court mattered to a bunch of grown men that fight with each other every other practice and have to play with teammates boning their girlfriends. It had to have been something more personal than that.

[Da_Realist]

Isiah was kept off the team which I know was a colossal disappointment for him. All this stuff that's leaking out over the past few years has to feel like salt being poured on the wound. I feel bad for him.

[t-rex]

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/isiah_ripped_in_dream_team_documentary_TD0ozHEdv1l 58aqTplLGGI

They claimed that isiah spearheaded 'bad boys' and rough play. WOW REALLY? There is a reason why only the toughest MEN succeed in basketball. Last I checked, its not daisies and daiquiris.

*I'm sorry, but jordan/pippen come off as having sour grapes because they couldnt handle the rough-n-tough style of play.


Actually Isiah was not liked by many NBA players. Not just Jordan.

I know Jordan disliked him because of the Piston/Bulls rivalry of the late 1980s and because Thomas tried to "freeze" him out of an All-Star Game.

Bird didn't like Isiah, when after Bird kicked the Pistons a** in game 7 of the EFC, Thomas told the media essentially that Bird was overrated because he was white.

Isiah Thomas has NEVER left a lot of friends anywhere he has ever been.

He even had a falling out with his former good friend Magic Johnson, when Johnson felt Isiah did not support him during his Aids crises.

Isiah Thomas is not a likeable person, which in a way is sad, because he belonged on the Dream Team. And his legacy as one of the greatest players of all time has been forever tarnished by his post NBA career, and the bad reputation he left everywhere he ever was.

[Smoke117]

Actually Isiah was not liked by many NBA players. Not just Jordan.

I know Jordan disliked him because of the Piston/Bulls rivalry of the late 1980s and because Thomas tried to "freeze" him out of an All-Star Game.

Bird didn't like Isiah, when after Bird kicked the Pistons a** in game 7 of the EFC, Thomas told the media essentially that Bird was overrated because he was white.

Isiah Thomas has NEVER left a lot of friends anywhere he has ever been.

He even had a falling out with his former good friend Magic Johnson, when Johnson felt Isiah did not support him during his Aids crises.

Isiah Thomas is not a likeable person, which in a way is sad, because he belonged on the Dream Team. And his legacy as one of the greatest players of all time has been forever tarnished by his post NBA career, and the bad reputation he left everywhere he ever was.

I know Karl Malone didn't like him either. Pippen had nothing to do with keeping Isiah off the dream team. Here is a radio interview with him and Drexler. He's pretty candid about being happy that he was not on the team but also says that nobody asked him one way or another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7akp4AIPxo

Jordan was the primary reason he was left off the team.

[AngelEyes]

There were several players who didn't want Thomas on that team... Jordan, Pippen, Magic, Bird, Malone and probably most of the others.

[TheMarkMadsen]

At the point when the dream team was assembled wasn't zeke coming off 2 b2b championships?

Jordan was butt hurt.

Jordan is the greatest bball player to ever live, but the guy comes off as an immature douche.

[AngelEyes]

At the point when the dream team was assembled wasn't zeke coming off 2 b2b championships?

Jordan was butt hurt.

Jordan is the greatest bball player to ever live, but the guy comes off as an immature douche.

Again... Jordan was far from the only person who didn't want Thomas on that team. His own former best friend didn't want him on the team.

[Sarcastic]

I said this a long time ago. The only reason that Stockton and Pippen were on the team was politics. Isiah Thomas and Dominique Wilkins deserved those spots at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QKIcnY4tnM

Watch at 0:38 mark. Pippen even said "I didn't feel like I deserved to be there."

[Da_Realist]

I said this a long time ago. The only reason that Stockton and Pippen were on the team was politics. Isiah Thomas and Dominique Wilkins deserved those spots at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QKIcnY4tnM

Watch at 0:38 mark. Pippen even said "I didn't feel like I deserved to be there."

"Hey Charles, how you like that ass kicking we gave y'all?"

BOSS :pimp:

[tmacattack33]

Isiah has a terrible attitude and is an idiot. Good for him.

[Bigsmoke]

isiah was kinda washed up at that point.

they already had Bird with a bad back and Magic with the virus

[bizil]

At the time the Dream Team was beginning to be selected, Isiah was still at the top of his game. Any dips in scoring or dimes was due to the fact that Joe D. was really coming into his own even more AND others around him began to decline. In the 91-92 season, Zeke put up 18.5 points and 7.2 dimes. The year before that he was hobbled, but he put up 16.2 points and 9.3 dimes. He was just coming off back to back titles the season before the team was beginning to slowly come to fruition.

In my book, that team HAD to have Nique and Isiah. They were set on having a college player, but that player should have been Shaq. Robinson could have easily slid to PF at times while Barkley could have slid to play some SF at times. Pip and MJ were the teams defensive perimeter stoppers. But a guy like Clyde could have stepped up and amped up his defense more. Plus u would have had three big centers to provide paint protection. If the goal was to have a true representation of the legends in that era U HAVE TO HAVE NIQUE and ZEKE! Pip shouldn't have been on that team in my opinion. Im not saying he's not good enough, but wrong time wrong place. So it comes down to having Stockton, Mullin, or Pippen off the team.

[Sarcastic]

isiah was kinda washed up at that point.

they already had Bird with a bad back and Magic with the virus

It's not like they were playing close games, and Stockton's health was putting them over the top. :lol Isiah would have done fine.

Also Pippen in 1992 was not regarded the way he is now. Dominique was considered the superior player at the time. He just didn't play on the Bulls, so Pippen got the invite.

[bizil]

It's not like they were playing close games, and Stockton's health was putting them over the top. :lol Isiah would have done fine.

Also Pippen in 1992 was not regarded the way he is now. Dominique was considered the superior player at the time. He just didn't play on the Bulls, so Pippen got the invite.

Great points! Nique was considered the superior player. People often confuse better all around player with the better player. I think Nique was the better player until 94 or 95 when Nique began to slow down some. And people need to realize taht the NBA casual fan base was not only built on MJ, Bird, Magic, and Dr.J before them. But Isiah, Nique, and Barkley in my opinion were tremendously important as well. U could say those guys were the Maginificent Seven in terms building the NBA up during the Stern era. Sure MJ, Bird, Magic, and Dr. J are on the ultimate level. But Nique, Isiah, and Barkley are next in line in terms of mass appeal. And often times, those three were battling the others in All Star games, dunk contests, playoffs, Finals game and provided stiff and compelling competition at every turn.

[TheBigVeto]

Isiah deserved to be left off.
I hope in this movie, the Dream Team members come clean and publicly denounce Isiah one more time, and admit that they all don't want him to be in the team.

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: at the Pippen haters. Pippen was among the first group (4-5) of players selected and Dream Team coach Chuck Daly called him the best player on the team after Jordan. (please tell me how you>>>Daly's view of how good people were on that team) There were reasons for this...

Funny how Pippen being humble is used against him by a Pip hater. Why not quote Jordan's view on Pippen's performance on the Dream Team? You guys can't cherry pick MJ only when it suits your agendas.

Nique was a one dimensional player who never got past the second round. He was his generation's Vince Carter.

[bizil]

:oldlol: at the Pippen haters. Pippen was among the first group (4-5) of players selected and Dream Team coach Chuck Daly called him the best player on the team after Jordan. (please tell me how you>>>Daly's view of how good people were on that team) There were reasons for this...

Funny how Pippen being humble is used against him by a Pip hater. Why not quote Jordan's view on Pippen's performance on the Dream Team? You guys can't cherry pick MJ only when it suits your agendas.

Nique was a one dimensional player who never got past the second round. He was his generation's Vince Carter.

When people say Pip is the second best player on the team, I feel its in terms of all around ability. Pip at his best was NEVER better than Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, or Drexler. All around ability wise, Pip is as good as it gets. But the better all around player and better player is two different arguments. I for one never felt Pip wasn't good enough to be on the team. But let's say Pippen was on the Washington Bullets putting up those numbers. Or better yet put Pippen on a lower level playoff during that time like the New Jersey Nets. Pippen wouldn't have made the Dream Team to begin with. He would have been seen as a solid All Star caliber player young in his career who could one day be as good as Bird or Wilkins. The fact Pippen was on the Bulls acclerated his progression to a Dream Team. It wasn't a Mitch Richmond situation where u are good enough to be on the team, but for years you were stuck on average teams. And finally received your just due.

Nique and Vince are also more than one dimensional players. A one dimensional player is a guy who is very good to great at only ONE facet of the game. Those are guys like Steve Kerr or Kyle Korver. Or on a higher level as great as he is a guy like Reggie Miller. The only thing Reggie was very good to great at is scoring. Nique was a GREAT scorer and a very good to great rebounder. Rebounding is a part of the game for not only PF's and C's, but for SF's as well. And if u are going to a one dimensional player, it might as well be an alpha dog scoring the rock. It's the most premium asset in basketball flat out.

[ImmortalNemesis]

Can someone tell why Bird and Malone didn't want I. Thomas on the team?

[MasterDurant24]

I thought this was common knowledge. Isiah had made many enemies over the years, and Jordan especially. Had beefs with Karl Malone and Bird too.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Outside of maybe one or two guys who didn't really get into the politics at all, NO ONE wanted Isiah on that squad.

[ILLsmak]

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/isiah_ripped_in_dream_team_documentary_TD0ozHEdv1l 58aqTplLGGI

They claimed that isiah spearheaded 'bad boys' and rough play. WOW REALLY? There is a reason why only the toughest MEN succeed in basketball. Last I checked, its not daisies and daiquiris.

*I'm sorry, but jordan/pippen come off as having sour grapes because they couldnt handle the rough-n-tough style of play.

lol "breaking news..."

-Smak

[Sarcastic]

:oldlol: at the Pippen haters. Pippen was among the first group (4-5) of players selected and Dream Team coach Chuck Daly called him the best player on the team after Jordan. (please tell me how you>>>Daly's view of how good people were on that team) There were reasons for this...

Funny how Pippen being humble is used against him by a Pip hater. Why not quote Jordan's view on Pippen's performance on the Dream Team? You guys can't cherry pick MJ only when it suits your agendas.

Nique was a one dimensional player who never got past the second round. He was his generation's Vince Carter.


:roll: Like it really matters who Daly said played the best. They were blowing teams out by 40 every game. Magic had HIV, Bird had a bad back, and Jordan had just carried the Bulls to another ring. Pippen was the only player with something to prove, so of course he played balls to the wall. He even said it in the video I posted. He didn't think he deserved to be there. If you had a time machine, and went back to 1992, the only players that Pippen was considered better than at the time were Christian Laettner, and maybe Chris Mullin. Pippen's claim to fame at that point was finally stepping up against the Pistons, and running like a coward as he had done in 1990 and 1989.

[Sarcastic]

Can someone tell why Bird and Malone didn't want I. Thomas on the team?

Bird, from the Pistons/Celtics rivalry, and Malone wanted Stockton on the team. After Isiah got snubbed for Stockton he lit him up for like 40. After that, Malone did the famous elbow to the face the next time they played.

[KevinNYC]

Bird, from the Pistons/Celtics rivalry, and Malone wanted Stockton on the team. After Isiah got snubbed for Stockton he lit him up for like 40. After that, Malone did the famous elbow to the face the next time they played.



Actually Isiah was not liked by many NBA players. Not just Jordan.

I know Jordan disliked him because of the Piston/Bulls rivalry of the late 1980s and because Thomas tried to "freeze" him out of an All-Star Game.

Bird didn't like Isiah, when after Bird kicked the Pistons a** in game 7 of the EFC, Thomas told the media essentially that Bird was overrated because he was white.

Isiah Thomas has NEVER left a lot of friends anywhere he has ever been.

He even had a falling out with his former good friend Magic Johnson, when Johnson felt Isiah did not support him during his Aids crises.

Isiah Thomas is not a likeable person, which in a way is sad, because he belonged on the Dream Team. And his legacy as one of the greatest players of all time has been forever tarnished by his post NBA career, and the bad reputation he left everywhere he ever was.

The two biggest voices against and the ones that seemed to have clout were Michael and Magic. Magic believed that Isiah was spreading rumors that he got the HIV virus because he was bisexual. MJ didn't like being frozen out of the All Star game his rookie year and the year the Bulls finally beat the Pistons, Daly put in his subs with just a few seconds left in the game and Isiah and all the starters headed straight to the locker room and didn't stick around for handshakes.

Bird was more of a bystander in the let's keep Isiah off the Dream Team. He wasn't active in trying to get him off the team, but if a lot of the other guys didn't want him (and they didn't) he certainly wasn't going to fight for him. Also, at that point in his career, he shouldn't have been decided who stayed or who didn't since his back so bad he was about to retire. Jordan apparently said he would play unless Bird was on the team.

The "overrated-because-he's-white-flap" didn't play into this. Bird at the time say he didn't care what Rodman or Isiah said and he didn't matter to him. When Isiah called him to apologize, Bird said he didn't care, but he did what Isiah to speak to him Mom because she was a big Isiah fan ever since he won an NCAA title at Indiana under Bob Knight.

I believe Bird when he says that. Bird has always never cared what people said about him. Today Larry Bird is known as pretty smart and funny dude, but when he got the NBA he didn't say much and people thought he was an idiot. He didn't care. He knew he was smart. What he was, was incredibly shy, but he didn't want to talk to people and he didn't care if they thought he was an idiot as a consequence.

Every has seen this clip where Bird is the whole person in the state of Indiana showing no emotion to the biggest shot in Pacer history
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/2307/69529823.gif

The video is even better, compare Reggie Miller to him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JZtm6LZOA4#t=3m15s

The dude just does react the way most other people do. Some folks remember that the first college he attended was not Indiana State, it was Indiana, but after a few weeks there, he was overwhelmed by the size of the campus and for the first time in his life completely conscious of how poor he was and how few nice clothes he had in comparison to other students. He felt out of place and just left. He just went home, didn't even talk to Bob Knight. He went home and took job with parks dept doing among things being a garbage collector.

[TheBigVeto]

Can someone tell why Bird and Malone didn't want I. Thomas on the team?

Isiah made racist comments about Bird.

Isiah was racist towards Stockton and Malone had to protect his teammate. That hard foul on Isiah, very well done. :applause:

[305Baller]

Didnt Isiah freeze Jordan out of the ASG in 84?

[KevinNYC]

Isiah made racist comments about Bird.

Isiah was racist towards Stockton and Malone had to protect his teammate. That hard foul on Isiah, very well done. :applause:

As I note above Bird didn't care one way or the other. If you are an Amazon member you can search within the Magic/Bird book. (http://www.amazon.com/reader/0547225474?_encoding=UTF8&query=isiah#reader_0547225474) See pages 262-3

It says Bird was being startled Isiah didn't make the team and it goes much more into the the reasons Magic didn't want him on the team. The team was selected before Magic HIV annoucement, but I dont' think it was public yet. It said during the selection process, the Pistons PR director called Magic on behalf of Isiah to advocate for him being the dream team, but Magic wouldn't do it. Bird was not behind the anti-Isiah push, which is why the news articles about the book looked like this

Magic Johnson bashes Isiah Thomas in book (http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4909)
[QUOTE]Magic also admits that he joined with Michael Jordan and other players in blackballing Thomas from the 1992 Olympic Dream Team, saying,

[magnax1]

Isiah didn't deserve to play on the dream team anyway. He was really not a very good player by 92. I guess Bird wasn't either, but that's a bit different to me since Bird was one of the 10 greatest players ever.

[JustinJDW]

Always thought the MJ freeze out story didn't sound right to me. How does a 23-year old who hasn't been in the league four seasons come in and convince a bunch of proven All-Star career veterans like Bird, Moses and Erving to freeze out M.J? How is he even in position to orchestrate that?

To me that's like if Durant convinced Kobe, CP3 and Dirk to freeze out Blake Griffin in last year's All-Star game because he didn't like him getting too much attention.

[AlphaWolf24]

:oldlol: at the Pippen haters. Pippen was among the first group (4-5) of players selected and Dream Team coach Chuck Daly called him the best player on the team after Jordan. (please tell me how you>>>Daly's view of how good people were on that team) There were reasons for this...

Funny how Pippen being humble is used against him by a Pip hater. Why not quote Jordan's view on Pippen's performance on the Dream Team? You guys can't cherry pick MJ only when it suits your agendas.

Nique was a one dimensional player who never got past the second round. He was his generation's Vince Carter.


this..I remember in 92 how everyone was saying Pippen was the best allaround player and a perfect fit for the DT...

people forget how great Pippen was....2nd best player in the NBA from 92 - 97

[ProfessorMurder]

:oldlol: At complaining about Pippen being on the team instead of Nique, and Isiah being left off.

The team had 11 f*cking hall of famers. If anyone didn't belong it was Laettner.

Isiah made his bed with his relations with other players, so he was left off. The only guy that should be upset is him. It makes sense to have Stockton instead, elite player, teammate of Malone, and doesn't look to score.




By the way Dominiqe's Achilles' tendon exploded in '92. It would've been great having a guy that just had a severe injury on the team instead of a two time champ Scottie Pippen.

[swi7ch]

No, not just Jordan. Everybody hated Isiah Thomas (not just the players) so naturally, nobody wanted him on the team.

[bizil]

:oldlol: At complaining about Pippen being on the team instead of Nique, and Isiah being left off.

The team had 11 f*cking hall of famers. If anyone didn't belong it was Laettner.

Isiah made his bed with his relations with other players, so he was left off. The only guy that should be upset is him. It makes sense to have Stockton instead, elite player, teammate of Malone, and doesn't look to score.




By the way Dominiqe's Achilles' tendon exploded in '92. It would've been great having a guy that just had a severe injury on the team instead of a two time champ Scottie Pippen.

I've never been one to complain really with Pip on the team. In terms of Nique, most of that team was named before Nique got hurt. I want to say 10 of the players were chosen before Nique even got hurt. So ya it's true Nique wouldn't have been able to play because he got hurt. But out of the first ten players chosen, I feel Nique had a great case to be named, as well as Zeke. But Zeke as you stated messed it up for himself.

[Owl]

The only reason to put Isiah on the team (or Nique ahead of anyone except perhaps Mullin, assuming the college spot was locked in) was if this was an 80s nostalgia team.
Now with Bird and Magic turning up in the state they were (Magic not playing the season because of HIV and Bird with a fork in him) we tend to look back on it like thats what the team was.

It wasn't. Stockton was by far the better player by that point as well as being:
1) A better fit being primarily a distributor which is what you want on a team full of stars and
2) A much, much better shooter which fits with FIBA style ball.

The Laettner pick was inevitable (which isn't to say it was the right one, though it was probably easier to keep the vets happy and have Laettner on the end of the bench than it would be to put Shaq there). He had a great, four year, college career. People are constantly talking about rings and their importance and Laettner had those, and clutch shots and was a (the only) four time final four starter.

Isiah dug his own grave anyway, but it's not like the Dream Team missed him, as a personality or at that point as a player.

[CavaliersFTW]

In other news Magic Johnson now has HIV can you believe it! :eek:

[MetsPackers]

In reality, LAETTNER should have been left off the team for Isiah :roll:

I haven't even seen the documentary, but do they even interview this guy at all? :oldlol: Forget about Pippen not deserving a spot, Laettner will never in any other situation even be considered to be placed in any category with these guys

[bizil]

I'm of the thinking that Isiah could have adapted his game EASILY for that team. Stockton was frankly no better of a passer than Isiah or Magic. All three were on the same level in those terms. The single season assist record that Stockton broke was Isiah's before hand. Isiah just happened to be a much more deadly scorer, more deadly than Stockton ever was. Isiah could be just as deadly scoring as damn near any perimeter player in the L.

And frankly, I feel the team could have carried three point guards with Isiah, Magic, and Stockton. Many of the other NBA Olympic Dream Team or NBA World Championship teams had three PG's. But it was a mute point because Isiah wasn't wanted on the team anyway. But if he was welcome, I would have Magic, Stockton, and Isiah ALL on the team. U could play all three of them on the court at the same time in certain lineups. With Stock at PG, Isiah at SG, and Magic at SF or even PF.

[bizil]

In terms of the freeze out, I'm sure many guys were jealous of MJ in terms of his shoes, marketing, wearing the gold chains, and his flight suit gear he wore in the slam dunk contest. Plus if MJ was the same shit talker on court that he was known to be even as a rookie, I'm sure it rubbed him the wrong way. Even if Gervin and Magic were in on it with Isiah, I don't blame Magic or Ice. They were on the opposing team so if Isiah was down to screw over the top or second best player on the team (I think Bird still had a case over MJ as a rookie), then that's all the more better than the West squad.

People often try to put Isiah vs. Stockton and actually make it personal between the two. But the reality is that Isiah and Stockton have great respect for each other and are friends. Isiah ACTUALLY was the one to present Stockton at the HOF. Stockton said Isiah has been good to him throughout the years.

[Owl]

I'm of the thinking that Isiah could have adapted his game EASILY for that team. Stockton was frankly no better of a passer than Isiah or Magic. All three were on the same level in those terms. The single season assist record that Stockton broke was Isiah's before hand. Isiah just happened to be a much more deadly scorer, more deadly than Stockton ever was. Isiah could be just as deadly scoring as damn near any perimeter player in the L.

Isiah if you want to call him "a much deadlier scorer" you have to acknowledge he was a much worse shooter both in terms of range and percentages.

Isiah was a good passer. But his ever holding the assists record is a function of playing on one of the fastest teams in the fastest year of the 80s but also a time when assists given were getting looser (though this latter point would also be the same for Stockton). It was the year with the highest number of assists per team per game (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html#stats::17). And the Pistons ran fast. And they ran their offense through Isiah. He had his best year that year too (including his assist% of 47.9, which was was 6.4% higher than his next best year). So for a single year, he did very, very well as Tiny style score AND pass pg, but those numbers even accounting for pace inflation are atypical of what he provided throughout his career. But even disregarding the deterioration of his game, or the additional turnovers, or tendancy to shoot so darned much he simply wasn't in Stockton's league as a passer and the numbers back this up.

[JellyBean]

Always thought the MJ freeze out story didn't sound right to me. How does a 23-year old who hasn't been in the league four seasons come in and convince a bunch of proven All-Star career veterans like Bird, Moses and Erving to freeze out M.J? How is he even in position to orchestrate that?

To me that's like if Durant convinced Kobe, CP3 and Dirk to freeze out Blake Griffin in last year's All-Star game because he didn't like him getting too much attention.

Excellent point. To me, the whole "freeze" story was a myth. I think it was in early 2000 when Isiah Thomas smashed that myth. I think that his son was doing a book report on his favorite basketball player, Michael Jordan. During one phase of the book report, Isiah's son read about the freeze out game, so Zeke's son did what any good writer would do, go to the source; Isiah Thomas himself and asked why did his dad froze out Jordan. At that moment, Isiah Thomas went public and said that the freeze out game never happened. And like you pointed out, how was a 4th year Isiah Thomas going to tell established stars like Dr. J, Moses Malone, Bird, and other players on both teams, and their coaches, to not pass the ball to Jordan? I mean it is bad as those birther people crying about President Obama.

The amount of people that would have to involved in this whole be hard to keep underwraps. As much as Magic likes to talk, you know he would have spilled the beans by now. But that whole "freeze out" moment was a myth and Isiah took the heat then and pretty much up until early 2000, wow.

[Da KO King]

Didnt Isiah freeze Jordan out of the ASG in 84?
No. People are just gullible/stupid so they insist on believing it.

[SFMF]

It's clear that a lot of the players on the Dream Team didn't have good relationship with Isiah Thomas at that time no matter how you look at it.

With that, now imagine, you are the one making the calls and trying to assemble this crazy team, would you have called Isiah? I think it's easier to think this way.

[bizil]

Isiah if you want to call him "a much deadlier scorer" you have to acknowledge he was a much worse shooter both in terms of range and percentages.

Isiah was a good passer. But his ever holding the assists record is a function of playing on one of the fastest teams in the fastest year of the 80s but also a time when assists given were getting looser (though this latter point would also be the same for Stockton). It was the year with the highest number of assists per team per game (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html#stats::17). And the Pistons ran fast. And they ran their offense through Isiah. He had his best year that year too (including his assist% of 47.9, which was was 6.4% higher than his next best year). So for a single year, he did very, very well as Tiny style score AND pass pg, but those numbers even accounting for pace inflation are atypical of what he provided throughout his career. But even disregarding the deterioration of his game, or the additional turnovers, or tendancy to shoot so darned much he simply wasn't in Stockton's league as a passer and the numbers back this up.

Isiah was flat out a GREAT PASSER! If u think Stockton is better at that then I won't quibble about it. But Isiah was flat out a great passer. Ask anybody in that era who they fear more scoring, especially in the clutch and takeover ability wise, they would pick Isiah overwhelmingly! Isiah had number one, alpha dog level scoring ability, something Stock didn't have. And for many years Isiah did GREAT as a scoring and passing PG. Any drop in assists was due to Joe D coming in an fufilling those duties at times while Isiah played off the ball. And at the time the majority of the Dream Team was picked, Isiah was still in his prime. Now the 91-92 season is when Zeke started breaking down some. And 93-94 was the year he retired and was clearly past his prime at the young age of 32.

[comerb]

I got the feeling that nobody liked him, including Magic and in all likelyhood Bird.

The fact that Daly was willing to coach the team w/ the obvious snub to his star player says a lot to me.

[guy]

I'm of the thinking that Isiah could have adapted his game EASILY for that team. Stockton was frankly no better of a passer than Isiah or Magic. All three were on the same level in those terms. The single season assist record that Stockton broke was Isiah's before hand. Isiah just happened to be a much more deadly scorer, more deadly than Stockton ever was. Isiah could be just as deadly scoring as damn near any perimeter player in the L.

And frankly, I feel the team could have carried three point guards with Isiah, Magic, and Stockton. Many of the other NBA Olympic Dream Team or NBA World Championship teams had three PG's. But it was a mute point because Isiah wasn't wanted on the team anyway. But if he was welcome, I would have Magic, Stockton, and Isiah ALL on the team. U could play all three of them on the court at the same time in certain lineups. With Stock at PG, Isiah at SG, and Magic at SF or even PF.

Why are you even going into details on what could've fit? Dream Team could've had 12 PGs and they probably win that year.

[bizil]

Why are you even going into details on what could've fit? Dream Team could've had 12 PGs and they probably win that year.

Because I was responding to somebody who said Stockton was a better fit than Isiah on the team because Stockton wouldn't focus on scoring as much as Isiah would.

[L.Kizzle]

Imagine a practice with Thomas, Magic, Jordan and Malone ...