Is LeBron the best rebounding SF ever?

[DuMa]

besides Rodman

[che guevara]

Larry Bird?

[ihatetimthomas]

Larry Bird?

Bingo

[Meticode]

Larry Bird...averaged 10.0 for his career, best season was 11.1. Even in his last year with all the back-problems and pains he still averaged 9.6 that year.

Not to mention he did all of that playing with two premier big-men in the league at the time in McHale who averaged 7.3 RPG in his career but over 9.0+ in the prime of his career with Boston and Parish who averaged 9.1 RPG for his career, and easily over 10.0+ RPG in his prime in Boston as well. Between Parish, McHale and Bird you were getting near 30 rebounds per game with them alone.

[DonDadda59]

Elgin Baylor, Grant Hill (pre injuries), Larry Bird > Lebron(who is a great rebounder at the position, especially this postseason)

[NumberSix]

Elgin Baylor, Grant Hill (pre injuries), Larry Bird > Lebron(who is a great rebounder at the position, especially this postseason)
They were rounding against short white guys

[TheCorporation]

They were rounding against short white guys

:lol :lol

[Bigsmoke]

Larry Bird?

pace was a lot faster back then but Bird was a pretty great rebounder

[RobertdeMeijer]

Shawn Marion maybe

[eliteballer]

LeBron's numbers are skewed. He only averages 1.2 offensive boards for his career.

Derrick Rose averages almost that many.........

[kurple]

no

[Round Mound]

Nope but "One of the Best"

[DonDadda59]

They were rounding against short white guys

slightly above average height Mexicans, but close enough.

[OldSchoolBBall]

pace was a lot faster back then but Bird was a pretty great rebounder

Fine, then use TRB%, which normalizes for pace. Lebron has only had one season above 12% TRB (12.6% TRB this season). Bird had 12 seasons of 12+% TRB, including 9 seasons of 14+% TRB and 4 seasons well above 15% TRB.

[DuMa]

you put Larry Bird and Lebron on the same court against each other, who gonna get more rebounds?

[ProfessorMurder]

I think Melo is a better rebounder than LeBron, even though he averages less.

[kurple]

you put Larry Bird and Lebron on the same court against each other, who gonna get more rebounds?
when did you become such a bad poster?

[Pointguard]

I think yall already covered the proven top three, which would be really hard to crack: Rodman/Baylor/Bird.

Lebron definitely has a case. Lebron is the only one that could be a pure Small Forward/Point Forward and rebound the way he rebounds. Rodman wasn't really a small forward by any measure of the stick - he was a defensive rebounding forward his entire career as he never had SF responsibilities offensively at all (flank the wings, score, pass, shoot, help with handling the rock, post, etc).

The argument against Bird is that he rarely guarded SF's and usually guarded PF's which made rebounding alot easier. He couldn't guard Durant effectively and rebound like Lebron - to be honest, I doubt that anybody could. Lebron would have to be fourth but he was by far the greatest multitasking rebounding SF ever, in a class all of his own like Wilt and KG are at their positions.

[OldSchoolBBall]

you put Larry Bird and Lebron on the same court against each other, who gonna get more rebounds?

Easily Bird.

[Kingwillball]

Easily Bird.


Not Easy if Lebron focused on Rebounds.. He is averaging 10 Rebounds per gm since 2nd round of Playoffs..

[Round Mound]

Not Easy if Lebron focused on Rebounds.. He is averaging 10 Rebounds per gm since 2nd round of Playoffs..

Bird Averaged 15.3 RPG in a Finals Series :confusedshrug:

[(e)]

I'd say no, although he is a good rebounder. I think he makes it a point to go after rebounds (as he should). As a whole, Miami isn't all that great on the glass - which makes it easier for Lebron to shine.

Put him on a team with Noah, Taj, Boozer and Asik and I doubt he gets more boards than Luol Deng does. Not taking away from Lebron, just saying with his abilities and his situation, he's able to shine with his numbers.

[eliteballer]

Bird was also competing with McHale and Parish for boards.

Marion averaged double digit boards some years.

There are a lot of good rebounding SFs

Seriously, Bron averages 1.2 offensive boards for his career. That is NOT good

[Owl]

I would add Anthony Mason and Jerome Lane to the list. Charles Barkley played a lot of 3 for the 1st half of his career too.

I would also suggest that Baylor played in an era before their was a great distinction between the different forward positions (at least so far as I'm aware), so it could be argued that he was a power rather than small forward (Breaks of the Game refers to him as such, but includes someone opining that he was actually a power forward, iirc). He was also called Mr Inside to Jerry West's Mr Outside. Anyway I'd defer to someone who knows how the Lakers lined up, but it seems to me that his position was at least fluid.

So no LeBron isn't the best rebounder ever at the SF, in part, perhaps, because his other responsibilities require him not to be in a position to do so, but he is certainly amongst the best. And this playoffs (playing some pf) he has shown tremendous ability on the boards.

[Owl]

Bird was also competing with McHale and Parish for boards.

Marion averaged double digit boards some years.

There are a lot of good rebounding SFs

Seriously, Bron averages 1.2 offensive boards for his career. That is NOT good
And if the question were is LeBron a great offensive rebounder the answer would be no. But then he's rarely in a position to crash the boards on offense in any case.
So whilst he, as shown by many posters, isn't the best, judging him based on offensive rebounds is hardly fair.

[97 bulls]

Rebounding can often be more a matter of design than anything else. Bird and players like him that may start at SF but play defense vs the weaker of the two forwards and tend to hangg around the post. Which would net him more rebounds. Then you have perimeter oriented forwards that may not have had as many rebounds due to their role on defense.

Then you also must include the other bigs.

As well as how many great rebounder are in the league as a whole. Lebron James plays in a leagu full of terrible rebounding bigs

[no pun intended]

http://www.whudat.com/news/images/shawn-marion-wingspan.jpg

[G-train]

Lebron is basically a guard getting power forward rebound numbers, pretty amazing stuff. That is a core key to his great play, 6'8 250 playing guard.
Regardless its probably Bird, but it is debateable, and that is pretty good company to be debateable with.

[chips93]

you put Larry Bird and Lebron on the same court against each other, who gonna get more rebounds?

logic and reasoning would suggest bird, consdering he has put up better rebounding numbers, despite playing alongside much better rebounders (parish&mchale >>>bosh&heats scrub center)

racial prejudices would suggest lebron

[gtfomyface]

shawn marion? :rolleyes:

[Kingwillball]

Bird Averaged 15.3 RPG in a Finals Series :confusedshrug:


Lebron averaged 12 last series.. If Lebron FOCUSED on Rebounds he could be a top 5 Rebounder in NBA just as if He Focused on Assists he could be a top 5 assist guy or steals guy Obviously the same way with scoring.

[Micku]

Rebounding can often be more a matter of design than anything else. Bird and players like him that may start at SF but play defense vs the weaker of the two forwards and tend to hangg around the post. Which would net him more rebounds. Then you have perimeter oriented forwards that may not have had as many rebounds due to their role on defense.

Then you also must include the other bigs.

As well as how many great rebounder are in the league as a whole. Lebron James plays in a leagu full of terrible rebounding bigs

Yup. Agreed.

Mchale actually used to guard the SFs while Bird guard the PFs or hang around the paint area to get the rebound.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Bird was much, much better. Bird was a very good offensive rebounder(and I'm not bothering with the numbers, I'm purely going by what I've seen in the Bird games I've watched), and back to numbers. Bird averaged in the 10-11 rpg his first 6 seasons, and young Bird averaged 14 rpg for his '81 title run including 15 rpg in the '81 finals, just 1 less than prime Moses Malone in the same series.

During Bird's first 4 seasons, he had a TRB% of about 16% every year. Which is solid even for a center, and this accounts for pace.

But lets not forget that Bird played his prime with Parish and McHale, two legitimate big men who were good rebounders, or great in Robert's case.

I do like to look at how Bird rebounded in his overall prime, rather than just his best rebounding years. But even so, in Bird's prime from '84-'88, he averaged 27/10/7 in the regular season and 26/10/7 in the playoffs. His TRB% during those years was 14.1% in the regular season and 13.1% in the playoffs. And that was with prime McHale, and a very effective Robert Parish. Parish actually averaged almost 19 ppg and 12.5 rpg in '89 when Bird was out for a year.

By comparison, Lebron's high TRB% was 12.6% this season, and his second highest was 11.9% in '09. He's stepped it up in the playoffs with a 13.8 TRB% and averaged of 31/10/5.

But he's not competing with the likes of Parish and McHale, in addition to Walton in the '86 season. And he barely averages any offensive rebounds. I will say that Lebron played on some excellent rebounding teams in Cleveland.

Other small forwards who were better rebounders than Lebron are Pippen, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, Gerald Wallace and perhaps Elgin Baylor(though he's difficult to compare).

[Big#50]

Lebron is very good at many things. But he isn't the best at any of them.

[Round Mound]

Lebron averaged 12 last series.. If Lebron FOCUSED on Rebounds he could be a top 5 Rebounder in NBA just as if He Focused on Assists he could be a top 5 assist guy or steals guy Obviously the same way with scoring.

U must remember that Bird usually Guarded the 4 and Kevin McHale the 3. So Bird was competing with PFs and Cs for Rebounds that`s Amazing for a Player with his Limited Athletic Capacity.

But Bird was a Smart and Hardnosed dude. His Boxing Out Skills and Under The Rim Rebounding was Legendary

Lebron is not as Tough Minded as Bird was. Bird`s Leg Strength was Amazing and Underrated. Similar to Barkley. People Forget that Rebounding Involves Using Your Legs more than Anything.

[G-train]

Lebron is very good at many things. But he isn't the best at any of them.

False.

[G-train]

Bird V Lebron is kinda unfair comparison in terms of rebounding.
Bird was a 3/4, Lebron is a 1/2/3, who pinch hits at the 4.
It's like saying who is a better perimeter defender, Larry or Lebron. Obviously Lebron, but he plays on perimeter defensively much more.
Not very similar players, to give them the same position as a 3 man is just the complexities and oddities of bball.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I think Melo is a better rebounder than LeBron, even though he averages less.


Great logic, Corky :oldlol:

Take a break and go play with your Hot Wheelz :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

Bird Averaged 15.3 RPG in a Finals Series :confusedshrug:
Young Barkley was definitely more of a SF than Bird and Rodman were. Why didn't you say him?

[DonDadda59]

Lebron is bigger, stronger, jumps higher and faster.... yup... Bird would murder him for boards.

I can name a hundred guys in the NBA right now who are bigger, stronger, jump higher and are faster than Kevin Love... you get where I'm going with this.

IQ and positioning go a long way when it comes to rebounding.

[jlip]

No
/Thread

[Round Mound]

Young Barkley was definitely more of a SF than Bird and Rodman were. Why didn't you say him?

Barkley from 84-89 was a PF. He only Played SF from 89-91...Then He Moved Back to PF for the Res of His Career

[Round Mound]

I can name a hundred guys in the NBA right now who are bigger, stronger, jump higher and are faster than Kevin Love... you get where I'm going with this.

IQ and positioning go a long way when it comes to rebounding.

:applause:

Exactly what Bird was Great At. Probably the Best Position Rebounder Ever. Not to Mention for Positioning Leg Strength is Most Important (Bird had tremendous leg strenght) and that`s what Kevin Love has For Example. Barkley has that was well (he could lift 1000 lbs through legs)

[97 bulls]

Bird spent the first few years of his career at PF. If im not mistaken, he didnt become a pf until 86.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Lamar Odom is a very good rebounder....but he is a true 3/4 swing.

[guy]

Call me crazy but I actually think the impact of rebounding and the stat itself is somewhat overrated. Not to say its not a good thing or that it doesn't help a team or that it doesn't make a player better, just that I think its overrated.

[ProfessorMurder]

Great logic, Corky :oldlol:

Take a break and go play with your Hot Wheelz :oldlol:

Numbers don't mean everything.

Melo is much better positioning himself for boards, LeBron just tries to outleap people. Melo seems to barely try and LeBron doesn't even average 1 more board for their careers.

[Meticode]

Bird is going to get more reounds against LeBron. For what LeBron has in athleticism and strength, Bird makes up for in height and reach. Not to mention Bird knows how to box out his opponents and has a knack for the ball. Not to mention he's one of the highest basketball IQ players ever to play the damn game and knew what you were going to do before you would even do it.

Why is this even a conversation? Why? People baiting? DuMa...I hope you're baiting, otherwise you're just stupid.

[jlauber]

To my knowledge, there were no such positions such as PF, SF, SG, and PG in the NBA in the 60's, nor even into the mid-70's. My first recollection of those terms were somewhere around the very late 70's.

Oscar and West were not designated as PG's or SG's, and quite clearly, they were GREAT at BOTH.

And even today...watch Kevin Love play on the offensive end. He is popping from the 3pt line. And guess what? 6-8 Jerry Lucas was doing the exact same thing in the 60's.

Happy Hairston, who was 6-7 and about 225 lbs., had a very good mid-range shot, and if you look at his known rebounding percentages, which came late in his career, he was nearly getting 20% of them.

Baylor could certainly have been listed as either a PF or SF, too.

IMHO, these designations make very little difference.

[KevinNYC]

great post


and young Bird averaged 14 rpg for his '81 title run including 15 rpg in the '81 finals, just 1 less than prime Moses Malone in the same series.

Why did he average 15 that series? One they knew they needed someone to step up and rebound against Moses who could on any given night grab 25 if you weren't willing to work against him. Also Kevin McHale was still playing limited minutes in his rookie year, about 20 minutes a game.


Bird averaged in the 10-11 rpg his first 6 seasons.....
But lets not forget that Bird played his prime with Parish and McHale, two legitimate big men who were good rebounders, or great in Robert's case.
If you throw out the season he was in injured Bird averaged above 9 rebounds a game his whole career
The other thing to remember that even with the other two great rebounders it was Bird who usually led the team in rebounding.

It's a highlight reel, but here is the young Bird with a 21 rebound game in the Finals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A&feature=related) against Moses Malone and the Rockets


It also features what may be the most famous offensive rebound of all-time? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A&feature=related#t=3m10s) The one Red Auerbach called the greatest play he ever saw.

[Round Mound]

great post


Why did he average 15 that series? One they knew they needed someone to step up and rebound against Moses who could on any given night grab 25 if you weren't willing to work against him. Also Kevin McHale was still playing limited minutes in his rookie year, about 20 minutes a game.


If you throw out the season he was in injured Bird averaged above 9 rebounds a game his whole career
The other thing to remember that even with the other two great rebounders it was Bird who usually led the team in rebounding.

It's a highlight reel, but here is the young Bird with a 21 rebound game in the Finals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A&feature=related) against Moses Malone and the Rockets


It also features what may be the most famous offensive rebound of all-time? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A&feature=related#t=3m10s) The one Red Auerbach called the greatest play he ever saw.

:applause:

The Hustle Bird Showed Was Legendary :bowdown:

[LeFraud James]

No.
OP is a flaming ******.
/Thread

Co-signed.

[Teanett]

I can name a hundred guys in the NBA right now who are bigger, stronger, jump higher and are faster than Kevin Love... you get where I'm going with this.

IQ and positioning go a long way when it comes to rebounding.

:applause:

as for best rebounding small forward, young barkley deserves a mention.

[Smoke117]

Even with a screwed up back at 35 years old Larry Bird averaged 9.6rpg in the 92 season in the 45 games he played. Lebron has nothing on Bird as far as rebounding, period.

[Teanett]

here's another example that athleticism and leaping ability dont mean a whole lot when it comes to rebounding:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SQbnrdzTvf8/Tj1-T6dwOxI/AAAAAAAAAMY/CUDjXZAxIcU/s1600/zach_randolph_FAT.jpg

[pauk]

Lebron could average more rebounds than any small forward ever.. he has the size, strength, athleticism to do it and is very physical and likes to hustle, knows where the ball is going to go, excellent at boxing out anybody and so on..... the only reason he doesnt get at least 10 rebounds a game is because he is most often leaking out for a fastbreak & being the first back to play defense... for example...

Offensively:
A teammate or him takes a shot, Lebron will more often than not run back to disrupt potential fastbreak/breakaway layup/dunk/pass or 2 on 1 situation etc...

Defensively:
An opponent takes a shot, Lebron will more often than not run up for a breakaway/fastbreak situation of his own...

[BigTicket]

Prime Shawn Marion was a better rebounder than either Lebron or Bird.

[RazorBaLade]

Lebron could average more rebounds than any small forward ever.. he has the size, strength, athleticism to do it and is very physical and likes to hustle, knows where the ball is going to go, excellent at boxing out anybody and so on..... the only reason he doesnt get at least 10 rebounds a game is because he is most often leaking out for a fastbreak & being the first back to play defense... for example...

Offensively:
A teammate or him takes a shot, Lebron will more often than not run back to disrupt potential fastbreak/breakaway layup/dunk/pass or 2 on 1 situation etc...

Defensively:
An opponent takes a shot, Lebron will more often than not run up for a breakaway/fastbreak situation of his own...

Yeah but he's also pushing teammates out of the way after free throws to get those rebounds so it balances out

[Sakkreth]

Bird is best, but LeBron is one of the best no question.

[Round Mound]

:applause:

as for best rebounding small forward, young barkley deserves a mention.

Young Barkley played PF (84-89). He played SF from 89-91. Then Moved Back to PF from 92-00

[Semi]

Not talking about All-Time because Lebron can't be in the competition just with one great rebounding postseason. But when you talk about right now and over the last few years, I think Melo deserves a mention.

[Teanett]

Young Barkley played PF (84-89). He played SF from 89-91. Then Moved Back to PF from 92-00

pre-dream team barkley is young barkley.

[G-Funk]

They were rounding against short white guys

They rebounding against real centers

[Tenchi Ryu]

Lebron is very good at many things. But he isn't the best at any of them.

False.
Please take off the homer glasses. There is not one thing Lebron does the best in the NBA. The reason he's so good is cause he is very versatile and can do many things good. But he is not a specialist in one single category.

Not the best Shooter
Not the best Scorer
Not the best Passer
Not the best Rebounder
Not the best Stealer
Not the best Blocker
Not the best Defender

VERY good in all these areas, but not the best in any of them.

[Teanett]

Please take off the homer glasses. There is not one thing Lebron does the best in the NBA. The reason he's so good is cause he is very versatile and can do many things good. But he is not a specialist in one single category.

Not the best Shooter
Not the best Scorer
Not the best Passer
Not the best Rebounder
Not the best Stealer
Not the best Blocker
Not the best Defender

VERY good in all these areas, but not the best in any of them.

he's the best athlete.

[Tenchi Ryu]

he's the best athlete.
That's not a category though, that more along goes with his ability to be so versatile.

[Teanett]

That's not a category though, that more along goes with his ability to be so versatile.

yes it is.
it's an official category in the basketball rules of ish.
it dramatically enhances your rebounding, offense and defense making lebron the best scorer, defender and rebounder at small forward of all time.

[cavsfanatic]

you put Larry Bird and Lebron on the same court against each other, who gonna get more rebounds?
exactamundo

[Pointguard]

Bird has that title because he did it his whole career. But if a player had to be a SF the whole game on offense and defense, Lebron would be the better rebounder simply because his feet movement is quicker and he could get back underneath quicker - at least if you go by these playoffs.

If I were to reword the title it might be "Is Lebron is the best perimeter player to rebound like this?" The amazing part about it is that he's one of the best complete offensive players ever while being among the most complete defenders in the game ever as well (steals, blocks, rebounds, help defense, pg, sg, sf and pf range).