Discuss the Pistons struggles and to what extent Allen Iverson is to blame

[Se]

Look at this Nuggets team, they were better without him. I can't see the Nuggets winning with Iverson, the Jazz will be better than the Nuggets at full health because of Iverson. His shot release is so ugly, he takes bad bad shots and he pounds the ball so much.

Anthony and Iverson will NOT work. Hopefully they prove me wrong, but I don't think so.

The thing about Iverson in Philly people said it was his teammates not being good enough etc etc but now he has good teammates he can't lead them anywhere.

[mhg88]

[QUOTE=Se

[All Net]

after camby what good team-mates does he have? smith has just comeback but before their roster was worse than what he had with philly.

[StroShow4]

wait until melo has been back for a while to make a judgement.

[nugsfreak]

what have you been smoking? look at their roster in those losses, you'll notice that half the team was either injured or suspended. AI himself cannot win games, its a team game.

[Se]

after camby what good team-mates does he have? smith has just comeback but before their roster was worse than what he had with philly.

Camby, Nene, Smith, Evans and he had Boykins.

Evans is better than any forward on the 76ers.

Camby and Nene are both far better than Sammy.

Smith=Igoudala

[Se]

what have you been smoking? look at their roster in those losses, you'll notice that half the team was either injured or suspended. AI himself cannot win games, its a team game.

So you have unconditional AI-bias already? You're quick.

Kobe's teammates are very very average, but I see them winning.

[StroShow4]

[QUOTE=Se

[bigkingsfan]

[QUOTE=Se

[Devientz]

wait until melo has been back for a while to make a judgement.
co-sign

[nugsfreak]

[QUOTE=Se

[saKf]

Ced, I know you're trying to support your argument, but JR Smith is not on the same level as Andre Iguodala.

[knickscity]

odom isnt average

Youre right he's BELOW average.

[mswank]

theyve been winning without him

[XxNeXuSxX]

theyve been winning without him
They've been winning without Kobe, does that make him below average? :lol:

[LakersDynasty]

Youre right he's BELOW average.
Odom is far and away better than any player on the Knicks, I hope you were joking.

[StroShow4]

Youre right he's BELOW average.


what the hell is up with all these people thinking odom is overrated?? have you seen him play this year?? he has amazing skills for a guy who is 6'11, plays great team ball, and just seems to always make good decisions.

[AI Nuggets3]

in Denver A.I....

-is shooting less (and shooting at a much higher percentage)
-is getting more assists
-is scoring less (which his critics wanted him to do)

thats all im going to say...just watch.

[mswank]

They've been winning without Kobe, does that make him below average? :lol:


hilarity.

[StroShow4]

theyve been winning without him

if you watched the lakers with and without odom you would know they are a far better team with him.

[Devientz]

theyve been winning without him
Does this mean you think theyre gonna be worse when he gets back?

[lovethetriangle]

They've been winning without Kobe, does that make him below average? :lol:


I thought you were better than this man.

Lets wait till melo comes back then we talk. Iverson can still thrive.

[Se]

odom isnt average

Odom isn't playing.

And JR Smith=Iggy

Iggy has so many flaws in his game, that no one notices. He is hesitant to shot, often taking bad shots. He doesn't have a very good outside shot and his defense is way overrated.

[MTing]

I was saying this when the trade went down but I thought just wait till Melo comes back.
AI hopefully will get more assists, less turnovers, and takes less shots. In other words be a distributor and the second option, leave most of the scoring to Melo

[mswank]

Does this mean you think theyre gonna be worse when he gets back?


where do you pinheads get your logic from?

they're going to be better because odom is better than any other dope they roll out there that's not named kobe.

the point of the post re the lakers was originally about kobe being able to drag a crappy team along to some wins while iverson hasn't.


you dudes like 14?

[j Fresh]

[QUOTE=Se

[knickscity]

Odom is far and away better than any player on the Knicks, I hope you were joking.
That isn't the point. Don't use the Knicks to justify Odom. That's pathetic. Odom has been a disappointment his whole career for all the talent he has. He was playing very well before he got hurt. But back to the thread, A.I. is what Melo needs to make it to the top, not that I'm saying that they will get there, but A.I. can make him better as long as he remembers this is Melo's team.

[knickscity]

have you seen him play this year?? he has amazing skills for a guy who is 6'11, plays great team ball, and just seems to always make good decisions.
That's why he is overrated. You just said yourself. How long has he been in the league?

[XxNeXuSxX]

I thought you were better than this man.

Lets wait till melo comes back then we talk. Iverson can still thrive.
It was a response to Odom=Average because Lakers have wins. Don't see why I can't combat it with another useless stat like Lakers 3-0 without Kobe.

[LakersDynasty]

That isn't the point. Don't use the Knicks to justify Odom. That's pathetic. Odom has been a disappointment his whole career for all the talent he has. He was playing very well before he got hurt.
I agree that he's never tapped his full potential but you're contradicting yourself here. How he is below average if he's played very well this year? :confusedshrug: Would you say he's not even top 50 currently in the league? Or is anyone who isn't a top 20 player below average to you?

[StroShow4]

That's why he is overrated. You just said yourself. How long has he been in the league?

all i can say is watch him play. forget the stats, just focus on his value to the team.

[statman32]

Lets put off this thread till the end of the season when we can truly analyze the situation...great timing on this post right before the nuggest blow out the cavs

[nugsfreak]

Lets put off this thread till the end of the season when we can truly analyze the situation...great timing on this post right before the nuggest blow out the cavs

thats classic!
:D :bowdown: :cheers:

[ronron15]

[QUOTE=Se

[Glove_20]

Old news that AI is a loser

His playing style just isn't going to win anybody games

[Se]

u made it too obvious.... a hater

I've tried and tried to admire Iverson, but he got lucky by having defensive tammates that could bail him out that one year. He will never wi na title unless it is in a Barbosa, Microwave, Stackhouse sort of role.

[nugsfreak]

Old news that AI is a loser

His playing style just isn't going to win anybody games

AI does not have to win game now in denver, he has melo to take that honor.

[04mzwach]

wait until melo has been back for a while to make a judgement.
yeah, but melo was leading them toward the division anyway.

[nugsfreak]

yeah, but melo was leading them toward the division anyway.
good point
:cheers:

[AI Nuggets3]

Iverson with 22 points and 8 assists on 8-15 shooting so far.

blowing out the East's #1 seed w/o Melo....what a loser and a chucker :oldlol:

[Xsatyr]

Iverson with 22 points and 8 assists on 8-15 shooting so far.

blowing out the East's #1 seed w/o Melo....what a loser and a chucker :oldlol:

Yes bc one game says it all right?

[AI Nuggets3]

Yes bc one game says it all right?


in Denver A.I....

-is shooting less (and shooting at a much higher percentage)
-is getting more assists
-is scoring less (which his critics wanted him to do)

thats more than 1 game right?:pimp:

[Se]

Yes bc one game says it all right?

co-sign

[Xsatyr]

in Denver A.I....

-is shooting less (and shooting at a much higher percentage)
-is getting more assists
-is scoring less (which his critics wanted him to do)

thats more than 1 game right?:pimp:

Wow and what is their record?

[AI Nuggets3]

Wow and what is their record?

5-8 i believe. which is amazing for missing Melo and JR. they had an 8 player roster for 3 of those losses (no Camby, no Nene). you could put Kobe at his best with that depleted roster and you'd barely do much better.

i think AI could average 11 assists and he'd still be called a ballhog :oldlol:

[mhsbasketball]

[quote=Se

[Xsatyr]

5-8 i believe. which is amazing for missing Melo and JR. they had an 8 player roster for 3 of those losses (no Camby, no Nene). you could put Kobe at his best with that depleted roster and you'd barely do much better.

i think AI could average 11 assists and he'd still be called a ballhog :oldlol:

When the ball is in your hands that often you are bound to get assist.

[nugsfreak]

agreed 100%
Allen Iverson is a chucker who shoots too many shots on bad percantages which can really hamper the team especially with many talented players. Only team that AI deserves to go are teams that have no superstars at all.
Nuggets were doing fine with Melo and JR Smith.

Why A.I. is on the nuggets is because of the brawl to use as insurance to make sure they dont lose everygame with out melo and JR. But, even with A.I. it doesnt make that much of a difference and that havent won alot. So what they should have done is not get A.I. and just went for the players to get back.

what are u smoking? weed? crack? he was not brought in to be an insurance clause he was brought in to help this team win it all. It probably does not matter how he does he'll still be called a "looser" by the criticks.

[Se]

what are u smoking? weed? crack? he was not brought in to be an insurance clause he was brought in to help this team win it all. It probably does not matter how he does he'll still be called a "looser" by the criticks.

What are you smoking? And why do you accuse everyone of being druggies that don't agree with your opinions?

[nugsfreak]

[QUOTE=Se

[The Mamba]

And the Nuggets win. A.I. a loser? Nah...

[Xsatyr]

And the Nuggets win. A.I. a loser? Nah...

Thats only one game.

[nugsfreak]

And the Nuggets win. A.I. a loser? Nah...

how can a future hall of famer be a "loser"?:D
people just hating and not using their heads.

[The Mamba]

Thats only one game.
He single handedly brought a team to the Finals as a banged up and bruised 5'11 SG in the NBA. Dude isn't a loser, he has the heart of a lion.

[nugsfreak]

He single handedly brought a team to the Finals as a banged up and bruised 5'11 SG in the NBA. Dude isn't a loser, he has the heart of a lion.

I wish people could see his post game press confrences. the guy has a heart of a lion and wants nothing more to make this nuggets team better as a whole.

[Se]

He single handedly brought a team to the Finals as a banged up and bruised 5'11 SG in the NBA. Dude isn't a loser, he has the heart of a lion.

A team full of great defenders. And then they got abused i nthe Finals. Iverson morons will say how well they played in Game 1, and that the Lakers were undefeated etc etc, but the thing is Iverson cannot lead a team.

What is Iverson's career winning percentage? Anybody care to drop that in?

[Xsatyr]

[QUOTE=Se

[nugsfreak]

[QUOTE=Se

[The Mamba]

A team full of "great" (you mean 'good') defenders shouldn't take you to the Finals alone. You have to have offense, and Iverson shouldered virtually ALL of that load. Don't discredit what he did. He gave the Lakers the only loss of their historic post-season. Don't make it sound as if the Sixers got abused by a joke of a team. They played one of the best teams of all-time in that NBA Finals. Also, don't you think by that point A.I. was running out of gas? He did everything for that team. He out dueled entire teams by himself that year. Whether he was in a weak conference or not, makes no difference. I didn't see LeBron do it last year. A.I. was all on his lonesome. No #2 punch like every other great team, or team that gets to the NBA Finals. He was surrounded by a bunch of NBA misfits, and one great interior defender, and that's it. Don't make the Sixers who surrounded A.I. that year to be world beaters. They were scrubs, and A.I. shouldered the load. That's why he un-doubtedly deserved M.V.P. that year.

Iverson, like KG, has been unfortunate enough to be stuck on a franchise that truly didn't know how and when to build around him.

You guys talking A.I. down are haters. Plain and simple. One of, if not the best little man to ever play the game. Top 3 for sure. Him, Isiah, and Nate Archibald.

[nugsfreak]

A team full of "great" (you mean 'good') defenders shouldn't take you to the Finals alone. You have to have offense, and Iverson shouldered virtually ALL of that load. Don't discredit what he did. He gave the Lakers the only loss of their historic post-season. Don't make it sound as if the Sixers got abused by a joke of a team. They played one of the best teams of all-time in that NBA Finals. Also, don't you think by that point A.I. was running out of gas? He did everything for that team. He out dueled entire teams by himself that year. Whether he was in a weak conference or not, makes no difference. I didn't see LeBron do it last year. A.I. was all on his lonesome. No #2 punch like every other great team, or team that gets to the NBA Finals. He was surrounded by a bunch of NBA misfits, and one great interior defender, and that's it. Don't make the Sixers who surrounded A.I. that year to be world beaters. They were scrubs, and A.I. shouldered the load. That's why he un-doubtedly deserved M.V.P. that year.

Iverson, like KG, has been unfortunate enough to be stuck on a franchise that truly didn't know how and when to build around him.


You guys talking A.I. down are haters. Plain and simple. One of, if not the best little man to ever play the game. Top 3 for sure. Him, Isiah, and Nate Archibald.

I was just about to write that my self.

[Se]

I was just about to write that my self.

Whatever idiot. You aren't capable.

[Xsatyr]

he does not have to lead the nuggets, he has melo to take care of that. this is melo's team NOT Allen Iversons team.

Tell that to Iverson. I am off this topic for now but I will bump this when Carmelo comes back bc it will be funny.

[The Mamba]

[QUOTE=Se

[nugsfreak]

Tell that to Iverson. I am off this topic for now but I will bump this when Carmelo comes back bc it will be funny.

it will be funny when AI and melo prove all ya haters wrong.:D

[lovethetriangle]

I suggest you END this thread right now before a whole bunch of people look like idiots when Melo and AI go on a tear and win 12 straight.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm not a believer in AI either but lets give him his due and allow him to show what he's got with Melo.

[XxNeXuSxX]

I was just about to write that my self.
:oldlol:

[nugsfreak]

I suggest you END this thread right now before a whole bunch of people look like idiots when Melo and AI go on a tear and win 12 straight.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm not a believer in AI either but lets give him his due and allow him to show what he's got with Melo.

it will be funny when it does happen to see all these hater with their tails between their legs regressing what they said.
:D :D :cheers:

[nugsfreak]

:oldlol:
cut a drunk man some slack, I think I had a few too many beers during tonights game.:D

[NugzFan]

after camby what good team-mates does he have? smith has just comeback but before their roster was worse than what he had with philly.

dear god haters get worse and worse...

[NugzFan]

[QUOTE=Se

[NugzFan]

Iverson with 22 points and 8 assists on 8-15 shooting so far.

blowing out the East's #1 seed w/o Melo....what a loser and a chucker :oldlol:

its fun watching these idiot haters look stupid, isnt it? :applause:

[MaxFly]

:rolleyes:

Lets wait until Melo comes back.

[Y2Gezee]

All I can say is that they'd be terrible without AI in this stretch without Melo. Melo has gotten used to winning with 3 or so injuries to big time players at a time. AI came here when Camby broke his finger in the game before the trade, missed games, Nene missed games, JR missed 10 games.

You can't just go running off names of players saying they're better than Philly, because for a good portion of AI's stint, they haven't been there.

Not only that, but look at AI's stats. He's shooting 46% now and decreased his shooting. He's also been a refreshing playmaker in the lineup, much more so than Miller. He's probably going to take a shot or 2 less with Melo in the lineup and dish more and probably score about 25 at an even better percentage. AI and Melo are going to be a killer duo, there are more than enough shots, espcially now without Boykins.

On paper, this is truly a complete team, and will be a force.

[Serge]

after camby what good team-mates does he have? smith has just comeback but before their roster was worse than what he had with philly.

Exactly, and he only played a few games with AI. Smith just back, and Iggy is WAY better are you freakin kidding me?

Denver bench worse then the Sixers bench. First poster needs to get your head out of your *ss and watch before you talk.

And Iverson is shooting good over all since he came to Denver look again even though some of nights. And once Melo return everyone playing together that will go up I think, and the turnovers will go down. Ow and the assists will go up cause Melo does not miss open lay ups like those bums.

[Serge]

[QUOTE=Se

[knickscity]

A team full of "great" (you mean 'good') defenders shouldn't take you to the Finals alone. You have to have offense, and Iverson shouldered virtually ALL of that load. Don't discredit what he did. He gave the Lakers the only loss of their historic post-season. Don't make it sound as if the Sixers got abused by a joke of a team. They played one of the best teams of all-time in that NBA Finals. Also, don't you think by that point A.I. was running out of gas? He did everything for that team. He out dueled entire teams by himself that year. Whether he was in a weak conference or not, makes no difference. I didn't see LeBron do it last year. A.I. was all on his lonesome. No #2 punch like every other great team, or team that gets to the NBA Finals. He was surrounded by a bunch of NBA misfits, and one great interior defender, and that's it. Don't make the Sixers who surrounded A.I. that year to be world beaters. They were scrubs, and A.I. shouldered the load. That's why he un-doubtedly deserved M.V.P. that year.

Iverson, like KG, has been unfortunate enough to be stuck on a franchise that truly didn't know how and when to build around him.

You guys talking A.I. down are haters. Plain and simple. One of, if not the best little man to ever play the game. Top 3 for sure. Him, Isiah, and Nate Archibald.

Excellent post!!! Now we can close the thread.

[Serge]

That isn't the point. Don't use the Knicks to justify Odom. That's pathetic. Odom has been a disappointment his whole career for all the talent he has. He was playing very well before he got hurt. But back to the thread, A.I. is what Melo needs to make it to the top, not that I'm saying that they will get there, but A.I. can make him better as long as he remembers this is Melo's team.

Exactly AI can helo Melo a lot. And it's both there team why do you all make a big deal about who team it is? It's both there teams. And AI already said it is Melo's team I can help him out. But I think it is both there teams.

[Serge]

He single handedly brought a team to the Finals as a banged up and bruised 5'11 SG in the NBA. Dude isn't a loser, he has the heart of a lion.

Thank you, and this is from looks like a Kobe fan. lol

:applause:

Some are just haters, but the guy is not even 6'0 best heart in the league plays hurt gives 110% every game playing like everyone is his last.

[Serge]

he does not have to lead the nuggets, he has melo to take care of that. this is melo's team NOT Allen Iversons team.

Even Iverson said it's Melo's team I will help Melo. But no it's both there teams you don't take a vetran future hall of famer who still doing his thang and say it's not his team any more even though he agreed. It still pretty much both there team.

[Serge]

All I can say is that they'd be terrible without AI in this stretch without Melo. Melo has gotten used to winning with 3 or so injuries to big time players at a time. AI came here when Camby broke his finger in the game before the trade, missed games, Nene missed games, JR missed 10 games.

You can't just go running off names of players saying they're better than Philly, because for a good portion of AI's stint, they haven't been there.

Not only that, but look at AI's stats. He's shooting 46% now and decreased his shooting. He's also been a refreshing playmaker in the lineup, much more so than Miller. He's probably going to take a shot or 2 less with Melo in the lineup and dish more and probably score about 25 at an even better percentage. AI and Melo are going to be a killer duo, there are more than enough shots, espcially now without Boykins.

On paper, this is truly a complete team, and will be a force.

I am glad someone else saw his better shooting % now as a Nugget, and that's with Melo still out so that = more attention on AI.

[statman32]

[QUOTE=Se

[nugsfreak]

all hail ced...the nuggets have looked horrible the last two nights...a.i is such a loser
AI just won the game tonight vs the rockets, he is not a looser, the looser in this game TMAC for choking the game away for the Rockets.

[knickscity]

AI just won the game tonight vs the rockets, he is not a looser, the looser in this game TMAC for choking the game away for the Rockets.


A.I.>>>>TMcBrokeback

[StroShow4]

A.I.>>>>TMcBrokeback

wow, i actually agree with knickscity :wtf:

[Se]

AI just won the game tonight vs the rockets, he is not a looser, the looser in this game TMAC for choking the game away for the Rockets.

It's loser, not "looser".

The people agreeing with your stupid ass are the retards of the board, except Mamba so I wouldn't feel too happy if I were you.

Most NBA fans accept that Iverson is a chuck and turnover prone, it's just his retarded fans that can't see it. Even Philly fans were starting to see how worthless he was.

For the record, Mutumbo was the reason the 76ers got into the Finals. If they hadn't of acquired him they never would have made it.

[StroShow4]

[QUOTE=Se

[nugsfreak]

[QUOTE=Se

[Se]

The last two posts chronicle what I'm dealing with here.

[StroShow4]

[QUOTE=Se

[nugsfreak]

[QUOTE=Se

[Serge]

[QUOTE=Se

[knickscity]

A.I. is a Hall of famer for sure. We may never win a championship and it's the only way he can be identified as a loser.
Here are some other notable losers. Barkley, Ewing, Dominique, Reggie Miller, Stockton and Malone, Steve Nash, right now Dirk(although that could change). There are others but he is some pretty good LOSING company.

[Se]

Bump.

Where are the h@ters now? Let me hear you guys defend Iverson. Why is he losing this time? And why are the 76ers playing better basketball with Miller over Iverson?

Why is the word h.aters blocked, very annoying.

[boshraptor4life]

[QUOTE=Se

[ppierce34]

[QUOTE=Se

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's really not Iverson's fault. He's adjusted his style, taking less (and better) shots, as evidenced in the major improvements in his fg and 3pt %ages while taking 4 less shots per game. Unfortunately it hasn't lead to wins. The problem is that he wasn't the kind of player the Nuggets needed. They give up 104 points per game on 46% shooting and Iverson has never been a stopper. If they address the d in the offseason by getting a good defensive wing and a tough guy for the interior they'll be a very good team, maybe even a contender.

[hoopstar12]

there problem is they don't play any defense

[BasketballRev]

Great call. Ivey no doubt is solidifying his status as an NBA losing virus. His individual talent is HOF, but winning is not part of his resume.

[tontoz]

iverson had 4 assists and 9 turnovers last night. LOL

[different107]

he and carmelo are putting up good scoring together however it isnt enough to win...one of them needs to pass or they need to let blake run the point the whole time

[AI Nuggets3]

he's basically on a better version of the Sixers. neither team plays defense, but at least this Nuggets team has talent LOL.

i think they'll put it together, get the 7th seed. they're a brand new team. they're still basically in November. the rest of teams are in February. its tough for a team with no chemistry and no defense to compete in the west. they need a lot of time and a lot of work. (and they better hope KMART comes back strong)

and what Real Men Wear Green said is all true.

[CakeorDeath]

Even as a huge Jazz homer I'm still trying to figure out how it happened. Utah plays in Denver without Okur or Kirilenko, with Boozer playing ten minutes total and Deron Williams playing for the first time in a week after sustaining a groin injury...

...and the Nuggets got absolutely smoked.

[AI Nuggets3]

Even as a huge Jazz homer I'm still trying to figure out how it happened. Utah plays in Denver without Okur or Kirilenko, with Boozer playing ten minutes total and Deron Williams playing for the first time in a week after sustaining a groin injury...

...and the Nuggets got absolutely smoked.

defense. thats how it happened. AI played great, Melo played decent. but...

[RainierBeachPoet]

A team full of "great" (you mean 'good') defenders shouldn't take you to the Finals alone. You have to have offense, and Iverson shouldered virtually ALL of that load. Don't discredit what he did. He gave the Lakers the only loss of their historic post-season. Don't make it sound as if the Sixers got abused by a joke of a team. They played one of the best teams of all-time in that NBA Finals. Also, don't you think by that point A.I. was running out of gas? He did everything for that team. He out dueled entire teams by himself that year. Whether he was in a weak conference or not, makes no difference. I didn't see LeBron do it last year. A.I. was all on his lonesome. No #2 punch like every other great team, or team that gets to the NBA Finals. He was surrounded by a bunch of NBA misfits, and one great interior defender, and that's it. Don't make the Sixers who surrounded A.I. that year to be world beaters. They were scrubs, and A.I. shouldered the load. That's why he un-doubtedly deserved M.V.P. that year.

Iverson, like KG, has been unfortunate enough to be stuck on a franchise that truly didn't know how and when to build around him.

You guys talking A.I. down are ******. Plain and simple. One of, if not the best little man to ever play the game. Top 3 for sure. Him, Isiah, and Nate Archibald.

by far the most intelligent post here

ai did carry that 2001 team, but everyone did their role well-- mckie, mutombo and snow played especially key roles that got them to the finals

ai and the nuggets are struggling right now because they dont have a top notch pg that can pull all their talent together; this is tough to do midseason. not impossible, but very difficult

asking ai to do pg responsiblities puts him out of position as was seen all too well in philly

hof-ers are, by definition, not losers; ai is a shoe in for the hall

[Glove_20]

Its about time some of you Iverson fans are figuring out Iverson can't win...I have said over and over the game he plays is never going to be on any great team...AI is a loser, its just the way he plays....Great heart, but not a player who is going to be on a winning team

[GOBB]

:roll: @AI getting blamed for Denver losing. Hilarious. No one mentions how many shots Melo jacks up. Now its cool. Now its stuff being OVERLOOKED. No one mentions how horrible the DEFENSE is in Denver. Now let AI jack up all the shots and lead the team in scoring. You would have idiots blasting him for it. But he doesnt...its Carmelo Anthony who does...and well now for some odd reason its ok? Thats how inconsistent you clowns are here. If fans arent specifically targetting WAde and the ref treatment they are targetting another player for something lame while overlooking OTHERS who get away with what they cry about. When o when are the "I could score 30ppg if i took 30 shots too" crowd at? Where the phuck are ya? Damn shame.

But continue to blame AI. IO gurantee the majority who do dont even WATCH Denver Nuggets games. But its just a general assumption that AI has to be the problem. Just like you dont watch Miami Heat games but always mention "every game he gets bogus foul calls". How can that be true if you watch only a handful of games? Exactly...dont answer because you typing from your ass is clearly visable.

I mean lets talk about Dallas 3-4yrs ago. The Phx Suns. What one constant thing was ALWAYS MENTIONED? Hmmmm I'll take a wild phucking guess.

"They dont play defense. They give up x, y and z. Who cares if they score this much when they give up this much. Teams stinks defensively. And people think they will win in the playoffs? They have NO DEFENSE"

But here we are today with Denver. A team that DOESNT PLAY DEFENSE and is probably just as worse if not more than Phx/Dallas has ever been defensively. I mean the phucking Spurs had Oberto, Horry, Finley, Tony P and Barry on the floor and completely SCORED AT WILL on the Nuggets. I mean shots that you only see when adults play kids. Even the commentators spoke on it. Clear as day. Anytime Barry catches ally oops on your team there is a problem. But we dont hear about Denvers aweful defense being the REAL ROOT to the problems. Hilarious.

AI is doing what people said he should since it was "Melo's team". And he's still to blame. Tell Melo to play some phucking defense because he is probably the worst defending star player in the league right now.

[DreamRockets]

[QUOTE=Se

[Rab]

:roll: @AI getting blamed for Denver losing. Hilarious. No one mentions how many shots Melo jacks up. Now its cool. Now its stuff being OVERLOOKED. No one mentions how horrible the DEFENSE is in Denver. Now let AI jack up all the shots and lead the team in scoring. You would have idiots blasting him for it. But he doesnt...its Carmelo Anthony who does...and well now for some odd reason its ok? Thats how inconsistent you clowns are here. If fans arent specifically targetting WAde and the ref treatment they are targetting another player for something lame while overlooking OTHERS who get away with what they cry about. When o when are the "I could score 30ppg if i took 30 shots too" crowd at? Where the phuck are ya? Damn shame.

But continue to blame AI. IO gurantee the majority who do dont even WATCH Denver Nuggets games. But its just a general assumption that AI has to be the problem. Just like you dont watch Miami Heat games but always mention "every game he gets bogus foul calls". How can that be true if you watch only a handful of games? Exactly...dont answer because you typing from your ass is clearly visable.

I mean lets talk about Dallas 3-4yrs ago. The Phx Suns. What one constant thing was ALWAYS MENTIONED? Hmmmm I'll take a wild phucking guess.

"They dont play defense. They give up x, y and z. Who cares if they score this much when they give up this much. Teams stinks defensively. And people think they will win in the playoffs? They have NO DEFENSE"

But here we are today with Denver. A team that DOESNT PLAY DEFENSE and is probably just as worse if not more than Phx/Dallas has ever been defensively. I mean the phucking Spurs had Oberto, Horry, Finley, Tony P and Barry on the floor and completely SCORED AT WILL on the Nuggets. I mean shots that you only see when adults play kids. Even the commentators spoke on it. Clear as day. Anytime Barry catches ally oops on your team there is a problem. But we dont hear about Denvers aweful defense being the REAL ROOT to the problems. Hilarious.

AI is doing what people said he should since it was "Melo's team". And he's still to blame. Tell Melo to play some phucking defense because he is probably the worst defending star player in the league right now.
:applause:

[ppierce34]

Iverson's D has been bad as well, but he could be Payton or Pippen, wouldn't matter. That team is overall horrible defensively. The only big man that rotates properly is Najera. Camby is extremely lazy defensively and Nene is too slow.

[tontoz]

Now the AI apologists are saying Carmelo sucks, the other Denver teamates suck... predictable as sunrise.

Carmelo was leading the league in scoring AND shooting 51% from the field before he got suspended. now he is a garbage can.

:rolleyes:

[r32soul]

you can't really blame AI for Nugget's horrid defense.. of course AI doesn't help Nuggets on the defensive end anyway... the only defense he plays is shoot the gap..

to me Nuggets aren't really a good basketball team.. they are a poor man's version of Phoenix Suns.. try to outscore opponent at will without playing a lick of D. Of course, Suns are way more efficient on offense because of Nash. And they are slightly better version than Golden St. Warriors... a lot of athletes on the team, players that can score 25-30 any night, but again, all it takes is a few misses here and there, and opponents can go on a run of 10-12 pts in a row.

And another problem with the Nuggets is that they don't have any good offensive sets.. they don't have a PG that can direct the offense when they are playing the half court game... it's bunch of 1-on-1 with Anthony, Smith, and AI... that's definitely not going to get it done in the playoffs when defense are a lot tighter, and the pace will be much slower where teams will force other teams to play half court offense...

[tontoz]

they don't have a PG that can direct the offense when they are playing the half court game...

They used to.

[GOBB]

Now the AI apologists are saying Carmelo sucks, the other Denver teamates suck... predictable as sunrise.

Carmelo was leading the league in scoring AND shooting 51% from the field before he got suspended. now he is a garbage can.

:rolleyes:

Point out and expose the posters who said that.

[ppierce34]

Now the AI apologists are saying Carmelo sucks, the other Denver teamates suck... predictable as sunrise.

Carmelo was leading the league in scoring AND shooting 51% from the field before he got suspended. now he is a garbage can.

:rolleyes:

No one said he sucked, but his D is horrid, but so is just about everyone elses.

The teammates, yes lately they've sucked. Nene has been horrible, Camby's rebounding is about his only positve, and Blake, Diawara, and co. can't connect.

Their offense isn't a big issue, but until they even start to remotely give a **** on the defensive end they're gonna struggle. They're just stuck in the mindset of trying to outscore everyone.

[r32soul]

George Karl is as much to be blame as anyone too.. i don't think he cares much about his team's defense... and he has never coach a team that plays defense... Bucks? no! Sonics? he was lucky he had Payton as a great defensive PG, or else Sonics didn't really play much D either when Karl was there...

i say both AI and Karl are losers

[dejordan]

i can play this game and say he was the reason they lost too :confusedshrug:

shaq vs spurs: 27 ppg/14 rpg/53%/1.3 blks

shaq vs blazers: 27 ppg/15.7 ppg/48%/1 blk

shaq vs sixers: 33 ppg/15.8 rpg/58%/4.8 apg/3.4 bpg

i guess that means deke sucks and cant lead ? iverson carried the sixers on offense more than dikembe did on neither side.
too true! shaq demolished mutumbo. it was painful to watch.

[GOBB]

George Karl is as much to be blame as anyone too.. i don't think he cares much about his team's defense... and he has never coach a team that plays defense... Bucks? no! Sonics? he was lucky he had Payton as a great defensive PG, or else Sonics didn't really play much D either when Karl was there...

i say both AI and Karl are losers

:wtf: Seattle didnt play much D when Karl was there? This is a classic case of assumptions gone WRONG. You obviously are using Denver and Milw and assuming the same can be said for Seattle when it comes to defense. You're absolutely wrong.

And Milw didnt have the personnel. Sam Cassell, Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Tim Thomas. M.Redd. Get a clue. Who on those teams were good defenders? I'll start you off by naming one. Ervin Johnson. Now go. Here's some advice...you cant have a collection of players not known for playing defense and get a HC who can make them play good to great defense. If that has happened tell me when and who. None of the star players Karl had in Milw were much of defenders. Bunch of jump shooters who lived by the 3 died by the 3.

[dejordan]

:wtf: Seattle didnt play much D when Karl was there? This is a classic case of assumptions gone WRONG. You obviously are using Denver and Milw and assuming the same can be said for Seattle when it comes to defense. You're absolutely wrong.

And Milw didnt have the personnel. Sam Cassell, Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Tim Thomas. M.Redd. Get a clue. Who on those teams were good defenders? I'll start you off by naming one. Ervin Johnson. Now go. Here's some advice...you cant have a collection of players not known for playing defense and get a HC who can make them play good to great defense. If that has happened tell me when and who. None of the star players Karl had in Milw were much of defenders. Bunch of jump shooters who lived by the 3 died by the 3.
denver should have kept patterson. patterson and camby would at least give furious george a defensive base to start with. they just look so lost at that end in every game i see.

[GOBB]

denver should have kept patterson. patterson and camby would at least give furious george a defensive base to start with. they just look so lost at that end in every game i see.

Yea. Heck they look lost at the beggining of games I see. Team has no concept of playing zone together. People botch assignments, dont communicate, guess wrong. A real good cutting college team could execute on Denvers defense. How porous it is. Then everyone stands around lost.

[tontoz]

Point out and expose the posters who said that.



Tell Melo to play some phucking defense because he is probably the worst defending star player in the league right now.


No one mentions how many shots Melo jacks up. Now its stuff being OVERLOOKED. No one mentions how horrible the DEFENSE is in Denver.

I could have made these comments on your behalf when the trade happened because i knew they were coming. If Denver didn't win it would have to be everyones fault but iverson's. I knew you and the other ai backers would dog Anthony and Denver if they lost, but not AI.

Since Carmelo came back from his suspension Denver is

2-7 with iverson
4-4 w/o Iverson

And the two games they won with Iverson were against Memphis and Seatle (w/o Rashard).

Those are the facts.

Before the suspension the Nuggets were leading the league in scoring so to many of us the trade for Iverson didn't make sense. It was obvious that they really needed defensive help and 3 pt shooting, two things Iverson doesn't do well.

They certainly wasted no time getting Steve Blake, realizing quickly that Iverson couldn't play the point.

And if Denver continues to struggle it will continue to be everyone's fault but Iversons. "Carmelo isn't a real second scorer anyway, Iverson has no help" blah blah blah.

[Smartmouf]

One thing i can't understand is why they got Steve Blake. Yes he's he's a great distributor but he has the ball just as much as AI does. They don't need another playmaker, they need more finishers. Another part of the problem that's overlooked is Camby is an average defender at best 1 on 1. He's gets overrated on defense because of his boards and blocking a few shots from the weak side. Look at the guy shoot a jumpshot. it's like watching a rocket take off, i'm suprised there's no countdown to liftoff. he's slow as malasses . klezia is where the the Nuggets take the cake. Give this guy the ball and he thinks he's Michael at the Garden. AI is far from the problem, infact he might be the only guy that actually try's on both ends of the floor. he's the last man you blame right now for the Nuggets, but of course since he's a superstar he's gonna take the brunt.

[artificial]

AI did mess up somehow. He did stirred things in Denver, as he is not the prototypical guard -and the team had got used to Dre-. He isn't the main nor only reason Nuggets are losing, still it'd be childish to say he has nothing to do with that.

Melo, as pointed hasn't been playing on his own since he came back from the suspension. He was one of the most benefited by playing with Dre, and i think he hasn't catched up yet to the situation. And his D plain and simply sucks.

Nene is IMO the bright side to this. He has been playing with emphasis on the offensive end, showing improvement and desire. Still, on defense he looks too slow and unexperienced. I think Blake was a very nice acquisition for the Nugs, other than being terribly inconsistent on his playmaking -one night he passes like Nash, next night he is nowhere to be seen-.

And Karl. WTF is that guy doing. I know he wants to outscore, but c'mon this is ridiculous. He could at least try a defensive scheme.

Players in Denver need to get used to play without a consumated floor general, because AI is definitely not that type. Blake won't fulfill those shoes. Karl has to figure a way to put all the positives of having AI and Melo on the floor, because it seems he just thought it would just magically happen. Coach, AI nor Melo have ever done this before.

And get a clue on the freakin D.

[GOBB]

Only on ISH does...


Now the AI apologists are saying Carmelo sucks, the other Denver teamates suck... predictable as sunrise.

Carmelo was leading the league in scoring AND shooting 51% from the field before he got suspended. now he is a garbage can.

=


Tell Melo to play some phucking defense because he is probably the worst defending star player in the league right now.


No one mentions how many shots Melo jacks up. Now its stuff being OVERLOOKED. No one mentions how horrible the DEFENSE is in Denver.


:roll:

1. Does Melo jack up 24 shots per game? True or False. True
2. If AI jacked up 24 shots per game would he get bashed? True or False. True
3. Sticking with #2, would peoples counters then change into "Oh but but look at FG%, its different". True or False? True
4. After reading #1, 2 and 3 can one conclude Melo sucks or is a garbage can? True or False. False
5. Sticking with #4, can one imply based on 1,2 & 3 that Melo sucks/is a garbage can. True or False. False
6. Does the Denver Nuggets defense blow? True or False. True
7. Sticking with #6, if true does that mean Denver Nuggets team sucks? True or False. False
8. Did tontoz talk out his ass and make up crap in his reply? True or False. True

[GOBB]

Wow rereading these replies it seems almost everyone agrees the Denver Nuggets defense SUCKS. But if that is the case then yo guys think Allen Iverson teammates who happen to be on the Denver Nuggets SUCK as well. I mean thats the logic some jackass is using. That if you think the teams defense stinks its implying AI's teammates suck therefore you now are a AI apologist. Only on ISH, only on ISH :sleeping

[0ne50]

This is coming from a huge Iverson fan... I do think he needs to add a new wrinkle to his game. And cut the cornrows AI you are well into your 30s now. time for some maturity

[GOBB]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=594564&postcount=60

I think Melo sucks. Check it out!

:rolleyes:

[tontoz]

This year was anyone saying Carmelo was a chucker who didn't play D before Iverson got there? No.

What i was hearing was that Carmelo was having his breakout year. He was the MVP of the Olympic team and had taken his game to a new level.

Now he is a chucker who can't play D. i wonder why.

[GOBB]

This year was anyone saying Carmelo was a chucker who didn't play D before Iverson got there? No.

AI made a career out of what Carmelo is doing. Being a bigtime scorer and not much of a defender who gambles on the passing lanes. They also add other things like grab some boards, dish out assists. But thier calling, bread and butter is thier offensive production. Its a problem when AI did/does it, and its no biggie when Carmelo does it. Thats the POINT I made in my LONG post. So dont grab a sentence, a phucking word and spin it to defend your silly ass post that JUMPED THE GUN. You're wrong.

Its AI fault the Sixers lost because he's a chucker who takes 30 shots to get 30 points (mocking people here). But Carmelo? Dont worry about him, blame AI who has DONE what people said he needs to do if TRADED. And he still gets blamed. Ah well, lets overlook Carmelo and jump on AI.

I never said Carmelo sucked. I never said anything besides point out the contradiction among fans on this very board. And after you read this you have no defense for it. Much like the Denver Nuggets team.

Contradicting clowns here with inconsistentcies in thier arguments, logics comes back to haunt them. Now we catch amnesia. "Huh? Wasnt me. Its not the same tho its different. I mean I mean...". STFU. :no:


Do I think Melo is a chucker? No
Do I think AI is a chucker or ever was? No
Do I think Melo plays defense? No, he plays the passing lanes tho/gambles
Do I think AI plays defense? No, he plays the passing lanes tho/gambles
Do I think Melo is doing the same thing prior to being suspended? Yes
Do I think AI took a backseat, is deferring to Melo? Yes

Come on bruh, smarten up. Denver's woes aint about AI. Its about defense as well as consistent offensive productive as a team. Melo/AI can both drop 30 but if the rest of the team struggles offensively. Whats the point? Oh blame AI for that. Duh, answered my own damn question. :rolleyes:

[tontoz]

Come on bruh, smarten up. Denver's woes aint about AI. Its about defense as well as consistent offensive productive as a team. Melo/AI can both drop 30 but if the rest of the team struggles offensively. Whats the point? Oh blame AI for that.

They didn't have inconsistent offensive production as a team before Melo got suspended. They lead the friggin league in scoring. The only thing they really lacked was 3 pt shooting but Smith was making strides there.

Their problem certainly was defense but now it is worse. The reason is that Iverson can't play the point worth a crap, which is why they quickly traded for Blake. Then they started a backcourt of Iverson/Blake with Smith on the bench.

Do you think Iverson/Blake is better defensively than Miller/Smith?

[BradMiller52]

The thing is Denver really didn't play any defense before AI(lets use their record right before the brawl) and they were winning. They're not winning now and the only things that's different is a couple injuries and AI.

[GOBB]

They didn't have inconsistent offensive production as a team before Melo got suspended. They lead the friggin league in scoring. The only thing they really lacked was 3 pt shooting but Smith was making strides there.

The lead the league in scoring and gave up well over 100ppg. Lets be real here. JR Smith hasnt played the last 4gms. But i guess that doesnt affect the offensive production either?


Their problem certainly was defense but now it is worse. The reason is that Iverson can't play the point worth a crap, which is why they quickly traded for Blake. Then they started a backcourt of Iverson/Blake with Smith on the bench.

Yes the reason the defense is worse is because of AI. Breaking news, Andre Miller isnt much of a defender either. Neither was Boykins. But blame AI once again.


Do you think Iverson/Blake is better defensively than Miller/Smith?

Its a push. Both stink equally.

[GOBB]

The thing is Denver really didn't play any defense before AI(lets use their record right before the brawl) and they were winning. They're not winning now and the only things that's different is a couple injuries and AI.

Those "couple" of injuries HURT the team. When you make trades you want everyone together, healthy getting chemistry so by time March rolls around you're a solid unit. Denver has never had that. AI was traded for and Melo, JR Smith were out. Then AI has been injured. Now JR Smith is.

[tontoz]

Its a push. Both stink equally.

You just exposed yourself there. Miller and Smith aren't badly undersized against every team they face, like AI and Blake are.


JR Smith hasnt played the last 4gms. But i guess that doesnt affect the offensive production either?



So JR being out hurts Denver more than Iverson being out. interesting that you would mention that.

[tontoz]

Those "couple" of injuries HURT the team.

Nene hardly played earlier in the year but is playing a lot now. He only played 4 games in November and only averaged 6 pts in December. This month he is averaging 16 on 57% shooting.

[Y2Gezee]

Denver's problem is mostly Karl. He's a great coach, and has the player's respect. But since his cancer he's supposedly made a decision to be less intense, and less in game coaching. The offense is pretty much freestyle.


Its more like the Suns offense, except for 3pt shooting, they substitute fts and pounding the paint, yet they don't always get the calls.

They'd greatly greatly benefit from going back to last years system. Why? They ran when they could, and did it well. Yet when they had to slow it down, they didn't have enough offense. So Karl went to the offense where he wants quick shots, and in a way promotes selfishness. Now with Melo's improvements, and AI and Blake creating plays, Nene's improvements too and JRs 3pt shooting along with AIs and Blakes', they could easily have a good halfcourt O. Miller couldn't run it well because he can't shoot and didn't move the ball himself in the halfcourt, and Boykins was awful. They actually have the pieces to execute now. Which would help fg%, help them get back defensively too, and give some rest.

[GOBB]

You just exposed yourself there. Miller and Smith aren't badly undersized against every team they face, like AI and Blake are.

Undersized? They play zones...not man on man. Size is irrelvant. You exposed yourself for not watching much of the Denver Nuggets. Thanks.


So JR being out hurts Denver more than Iverson being out. interesting that you would mention that.

Players being out hurt. Denver isnt deep. 2 off the bench, 3 at best. So losing AI or JR Smith will affect the team because of who you replace them with. With JR Smith out who is replacing him. Think about it.

Matter of a fact. Tell me when Denver has played together without anyone of importance injured.

[tontoz]

Undersized? They play zones...not man on man. Size is irrelvant.

So they could play all 6'1" guys on D and it wouldn't hurt them because they are playing zone.

:roll:

And i have watched them. no they don't play zone all the time. That is ridiculous.


With JR Smith out who is replacing him.

Iverson. And when Iverson was out Denver was 4-4. Must not have hurt them too much considering they are 2-7 with Melo and Iverson together.

[AI Nuggets3]

no matter how you feel about AI can we all agree that he's done his best to answer his critics?


-"He's a ballhog. He shoots too much. He's not going to defer to anyone! Especially Melo!"

-"AI will NEVER accept being the 2nd option and shooting 15x a game"

-"He's not going to pass to Eduardo Najera or give up an open jumper to feed Reggie Evans. He only cares about himself!'

-AI will never go to practice!

-"They're going to fight over shots!!!"

come on guys. i'll accept that you hate the guy but can you at least admit that he's doing a great job trying to play team basketball? have you watched him the past 2 months? he's" pass first, shoot second." everyone here loves the guy. fans are nuts over him, the media loves him, George Karl said he's the first one to practice and the last one to leave, his teammates love him. can't you at least give the guy credit? he answers his critics after 10 years and now people find something else to diss him about. :oldlol:

and im sure that KG, Pierce, Nash, Tmac, hell even Kobe would love to be a "loser" like AI and lead a team to the Finals. are they losers too? if a 'winner' like Larry Bird names AI as one of his favorite players of all time, he's gotta be doin something right.

[GOBB]

So they could play all 6'1" guys on D and it wouldn't hurt them because they are playing zone.

Doesnt matter. Dre Miller/JR Smith are no better defensively than AI/Blake. You're caught up on friggin size when guys can blow past Dre Miller/JR Smith just as easily. :confusedshrug:

You're making way too much of the size disadvantage than you should. Fact of the matter is Denver has no perimeter defenders. Your boy Melo damn sure isnt holding up his end. You bag the Blake/AI duo when teams can take advantage of Melo's defensive woes just the same. But we wont talk into that. Lets just harp on AI and his defense along with the backcourt defense. Lets not ever speak on Carmelo. :rolleyes:

You seem to have a difficult time understanding Denvers defense is horrible.


And i have watched them. no they don't play zone all the time. That is ridiculous.

Sure.



And when Iverson was out Denver was 4-4. Must not have hurt them too much considering they are 2-7 with Melo and Iverson together.

When you attatch the "teams" to those records then talk to me. Thanks.

[GOBB]

-"He's a ballhog. He shoots too much. He's not going to defer to anyone! Especially Melo!"

-"AI will NEVER accept being the 2nd option and shooting 15x a game"

-"He's not going to pass to Eduardo Najera or give up an open jumper to feed Reggie Evans. He only cares about himself!'

-AI will never go to practice!

-"They're going to fight over shots!!!"

:oldlol:


*critic crumbles up quote and starts anew*


-"AI is the reason Denver defense STINKS!
-"AI is the reason Denver is losing. Its so obvious!

Gotta love ISH.

[tontoz]

When you attatch the "teams" to those records then talk to me. Thanks

What are the records of the teams that Iverson and Carmelo beat playing together? Worse than the records of the teams Melo beat without AI.


Your boy Melo damn sure isnt holding up his end. You bag the Blake/AI duo when teams can take advantage of Melo's defensive woes just the same. But we wont talk into that.

yeah everyone was talking about Melo's horrible D before iverson got there.


You seem to have a difficult time understanding Denvers defense is horrible.

At the time of the trade i said Denver's weakness was their D, not their offense, so I didn't see how iverson would help. Now their defense is weaker.


Dre Miller/JR Smith are no better defensively than AI/Blake.

Keep telling yourself that enough you might actually start believing it. When did AI ever stop his man from driving? how about Blake?

And I know i would rather shoot a j over a 6' guy than a 6'7" guy.






i'll accept that you hate the guy but can you at least admit that he's doing a great job trying to play team basketball?

Ill admit that he is trying to take better shots. But the fact remains that he is an undersized 2 who doesn't play the point well offensively or defensively.


it is too early to make final judgement on the trade but i can say this with certainty. So far Iverson has not helped Denver and Philly certainly hasn't played worse since he left.

[TMac&Luther]

I've said it before and I'll say it agian.

A George Karl team will never win, plain and simple. He sould be fired at the end of the season.

[c_az_a]

AI is the definition of "I" in team because the guy clearly is all about himself. If he was about winning, he would have done it in Philly but he even clash with the coach that got him the closest to a championship. If this guy can't even commit to winning, how will his teammates respond to that. He is the type of leader that makes everyone around him play below their potential. He is in the same type of mold as Kobe who expose the selfishness of the game. Kobe a ball distributor? If you compare him with Wade in distribution, Wade>Kobe. Talk about efficiency, Kobe is inefficient in that department because he only creates for himself and leave the rest guessing. Just like AI who along with Kobe get hyped to be the greatest players in this planet. Maybe because the only talent they elevate is themselves, their hype, but the rest will just ponder towards non-existent. This ESPN generation is making fools out of lotta people but business is business. You make these bafoons look like giants over the rest of the products, you will buy into their hype and jerseys.

[GOBB]

What are the records of the teams that Iverson and Carmelo beat playing together? Worse than the records of the teams Melo beat without AI.

You tell me.


yeah everyone was talking about Melo's horrible D before iverson got there.

Ditto with AI. Seems Melo/AI have a lot in common but we only wanna see things when it comes to AI only.


At the time of the trade i said Denver's weakness was their D, not their offense, so I didn't see how iverson would help. Now their defense is weaker.

Defense has always been weak. Being weaker is like acting like shooting 44% is better than 43%.



Keep telling yourself that enough you might actually start believing it. When did AI ever stop his man from driving? how about Blake?

How about Dre Miller and JR Smith? Oh ok.


And I know i would rather shoot a j over a 6' guy than a 6'7" guy.

If I knew the 6'0 guy and the 6'7 guy couldnt play defense to begin with. I'd have my way with either. Shoot over or drive by them. Not hard. And proof is in the game film.



Ill admit that he is trying to take better shots. But the fact remains that he is an undersized 2 who doesn't play the point well offensively or defensively.

He doesnt play the point well offensively because you envision a different kind of PG. Eh


it is too early to make final judgement on the trade but i can say this with certainty. So far Iverson has not helped Denver and Philly certainly hasn't played worse since he left.

They havent played any better either. They are the same/remained constant.

[tontoz]

They havent played any better either. They are the same/remained constant.

you would think that if AI was such a great player that there would have been a major impact somewhere.


He doesnt play the point well offensively because you envision a different kind of PG. Eh

True. I envision one who doesn't get 4 assists with 9 turnovers as AI just did.


If I knew the 6'0 guy and the 6'7 guy couldnt play defense to begin with. I'd have my way with either. Shoot over or drive by them.

So shooting over a 6' guy is just as easy as shooting over a 6'7" guy. OK

[c_az_a]

AI has 10 years of ESPN marketing to make us believers of his so-called hype (greatness) that there will be mountains of excuses for this guy. 10 years from now, we will hear about Iverson was one of the best defenders based on his stats and impacted an entire game with his 30 shots (only making 10-12 in the process). Highlights which is equal to the amount of times he hurt his team, but no mention of that.

[AI Nuggets3]

the question remains.....

are TMAC, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, Kobe, and KG losers or winners?

they've certainly never gotten as far in the post season as Iverson.

wasn't KG the west coast AI for the past 11 years? when will Nash take his MVP trophy to basketball's biggest stage? Kobe's the best guard of this era. will he ever take a team there? were the 01 Sixers just one great fluke team? maybe.. but he got them there. when will these guys have their fluke year? fair is fair....

[Glove_20]

:roll:

AI lovers STILL TRYING TO DEFEND AI?????????



The biggest Truth of AI with the Nuggests...


THEY ARE NOT WINNING


Thats all that matters? Why? I mean, they got AI they should really be improved...but they aren't, because AI's style of play is not what real winning teams want and have had...AI is a loser, its just in his game, the things he is good at, are not made for a winning team, and the things he is bad at, thats what all winning teams don't want to have...AI is a great individual player...But HORRIBLE TEAM PLAYER


2005-2006 Nuggets > 2007 Nuggets despite improved Carmelo and Camby too actually...He has been way healthier this year...


Whats the differecne? AI...



2 ways for AI to be on a good team, or team that "looks" good...(There is NO OTHER WAY)


1. AI does it all by himself...He is a great individual player, but not a great team player...Let him do it all by himself...But that will NEVER get you a championship, but maybe a Finals App vs. a weak East
:)

2. Minimize his role...The best chance AI has to win a championsip his late in his career, not doing much

[AI Nuggets3]

yes, im hoping AI joins the Heat in a few years so he can finally win a title...oh wait :D

but glove20 can you at least answer my question in the previous post?

[Glove_20]

the question remains.....

are TMAC, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, Kobe, and KG losers or winners?

they've certainly never gotten as far in the post season as Iverson.

wasn't KG the west coast AI for the past 11 years? when will Nash take his MVP trophy to basketball's biggest stage? Kobe's the best guard of this era. will he ever take a team there? were the 01 Sixers just one great fluke team? maybe.. but he got them there. when will these guys have their fluke year? fair is fair....

McGrady HAS been able to win and coexist with another superstar and win (yao)
Pierce had a lot of success in weak east too...His style of play isn't as weak as AI's though...

Kobe has 3 titles
Nash's team always wins a lot of games

And KG has been on a team AI's best team never came close too...And isn't KG's team in the hunt for playoffs in the west? AI can't even make it to east

As for AI's 01 Finals App


1. He is a great individual player, but not a great team player...Let him do it all by himself...But that will NEVER get you a championship, but maybe a Finals App vs. a weak East

[Glove_20]

Bottom Line:

AI is a great individual player
But his individualness doesn't fit into team play. Actually opposite of what it takes to win and what winning does and doesn't require of a player in terms of a team.

AI does = a loser

[GOBB]

you would think that if AI was such a great player that there would have been a major impact somewhere.

Teams win games. Tell me how many games did Camby, Melo, Najera, Nene, AI, JR Smith played together as a team. I'm still waiting for you to get back to me.


True. I envision one who doesn't get 4 assists with 9 turnovers as AI just did.

But when he has 9 assist and only 2 turnovers you arent so quick to report it. :rolleyes:


So shooting over a 6' guy is just as easy as shooting over a 6'7" guy. OK

Yup



The biggest Truth of AI with the Nuggests...


THEY ARE NOT WINNING


Thats all that matters? Why? I mean, they got AI they should really be improved...but they aren't, because AI's style of play is not what real winning teams want and have had...AI is a loser, its just in his game, the things he is good at, are not made for a winning team, and the things he is bad at, thats what all winning teams don't want to have...AI is a great individual player...But HORRIBLE TEAM PLAYER

So you cant bag his shooting efficiency so more so you contribute the losses to AI. :oldlol:

You dont explain how you just sa AI is a loser and not a good team player. Why? How? Based on what? Do you even break it down why Denver is struggling? Nah, not Mittens_20. Blame AI. Even tho before AI was traded the arguments against AI have YET to be used/brought up. Why? Because he's doing everything they said he couldnt/wasnt capable of. So lets find something else.

[GOBB]

McGrady HAS been able to win and coexist with another superstar and win (yao)

Win what?


Pierce had a lot of success in weak east too...His style of play isn't as weak as AI's though...

What success?


Kobe has 3 titles

With Shaq. Without? Exactly


Nash's team always wins a lot of games

Nash team is loaded. Try again.

What a *****. :oldlol:

[Horde of Temujin]

Win what?



What success?



With Shaq. Without? Exactly



Nash team is loaded. Try again.

What a *****. :oldlol:

GOBB youd think with as much as you post and follow basketball youd let your knowledge overcome your hate.

[GOBB]

GOBB youd think with as much as you post and follow basketball youd let your knowledge overcome your hate.

What hate?

[AI Nuggets3]

Bottom Line:

AI is a great individual player
But his individualness doesn't fit into team play. Actually opposite of what it takes to win and what winning does and doesn't require of a player in terms of a team.

AI does = a loser

but even if thats all true, he's still led a team deeper into the playoffs than most of today's stars. "fluke" or not and weak conference or not he had to WIN in the playoffs for 2 months just to get there. i definitely don't think the thread of the title should be "Allen Iverson is a loser" unless there's matching topics for the rest of the superstars. they've never experienced playoff success like Iverson.

the guy put fear into this decade's greatest team all by himself on the NBA's biggest stage. thats one helluva loser. :oldlol:

[D-Wade]

I dont think its fair to really call him a loser because we have seen the Allen Iverson who is fit and healthy and know what he is about but now all we seeing is the Allen Iverson whos injured. When he all healded and no change then call him it.

[Glove_20]

AI is a great individual player. But a bad team player. He wouldn't fit into any team that really wants to win...Because the characteristics he has are NOT what a winning team needs to win....


Here is why AI's ways of playing will never get wins...


1.He can't play defense at all...Simple as that

2.He shoots around a career 42%...Your taking 20-25 shots at 42%, tell me, is that "helping" or hurting your team? What kind of superstar shoots only 42%? Look at all the greats, high %s...Your not going to win with your star player only shooting 42%...Thats why he CAN'T win a championship...

3.VERY High TO prone. 4+ this year...Once again, that "hurts" a team, not helps...Another reason why AI can't win, he hurts the team in so many ways

4.He isn't really fit for any position...Isn't a "Pure" PG and is too short for a SG...Not his fault on the SG part though...But thats just too bad, sorry AI, you can't play a position perfectly well

5.If thats not enough, AI is a ball hog. He wants to take a lot of shots. Wants to keep the ball in his hands. He is selfish, look at who did all the work in Philly...Iverson...Never let anybody have a chance....Once again, NOT what a winning championship team wants...




Quick Summary: No Championship team would want AI because who would want a player who always wants the ball so he can shoot 42% and turn it over and then on defense, get burned all day while not playing his positon on offense or defense right...

[Glove_20]

Now

Look at all the greats who have won championships


Shaq
Duncan
Magic
Jordan
Bird


and so on, all of them did NOT do what AI does

And if you can name 1 player that has won a championship as a leader while doing all those "negative team" things that AI does, you got me...


Once again, the best shot AI has to a title is coming off a bench...Only a team who wants to lose would choose AI as leader

[Se]

Turnovers, bad defense. Two things I wouldn't say about Andre Miller.

Iverson can't lead a winning team in the point guard role, a team needs to be geared to his playing style, and I just dont see any team doing that for an aging me-first player. If he ever wins anything it will be in a Stackhouse, Barbosa role.

Topic over.

Iverson has made the Nuggets worse.

[DreamRockets]

may i ask why isn't kobe considered a loser ? without shaq he is 34-48 and 45-37 in the regular season, the way LA is slipping they'll win below 50 again. why isn't garnett a loser ? why isn't webber a loser ? why isnt carter a loser ? why only iverson ?

[AIR_ball_Jordan]

GOBB youd think with as much as you post and follow basketball youd let your knowledge overcome your hate.
I can't understand your logic..
Since when does using a legit reasoning and fact to support a player make someone a h@ter?
you people define a player career while he's on a new team with A LOT of injuries. And don't even mention his career in Philly, Billy King is a dumbass. Everyone knows you need a more than decent big man to win in NBA and Iverson cannot play without another scorer. So have King even remotely tried to build a team that would fit his superstar??

Look at the past draft 5 years draft.
1 26 26 2001 Samuel Dalembert C/PF Seton Hall
2 8 37 2001 Damone Brown SF Syracuse
2 28 57 2001 Alvin Jones PF/C Georgia Tech
1 16 16 2002 Jiri Welsch SG (Slovenia)
2 16 45 2002 Sam Clancy PF USC
2 21 50 2003 Pacellis Morlende PG (France)
1 9 9 2004 Andre Iguodala SF Arizona
2 15 45 2005 Louis Williams SG/PG (High School)
1 13 13 2006 Thabo Sefolosha SG/SF (Italy)

Who the hell did they draft/trade/sign to improve their paint?? Besides Dalembert (He's not even decent), Absolutly no one. They use their 1st picks for PG/SG/SF year after year knowing that they won't even mesh well with Iverson.
When Shaq left Lakers, Lakers is smart enough to get to draft Bynum. Hell, even Isiah Thomas in his worst year as a GM knew to sign with Eddy Curry. Now, everyone in Philly just trying to bash for his lack of success. No one even remotely begin to question the whole Philly management.

[AI Nuggets3]

may i ask why isn't kobe considered a loser ? without shaq he is 34-48 and 45-37 in the regular season, the way LA is slipping they'll win below 50 again. why isn't garnett a loser ? why isn't webber a loser ? why isnt carter a loser ? why only iverson ?

exactly. Tmac, vince, Nash, Pierce, KG, etc.....none of them have ever tasted the playoff success that AI has but yet he gets the "loser" reputation.:oldlol: the guy has gone farther than most superstars in this league will ever get.

[Y2Gezee]

[QUOTE=Se

[Se]

may i ask why isn't kobe considered a loser ? without shaq he is 34-48 and 45-37 in the regular season, the way LA is slipping they'll win below 50 again.

Look at Kobe's roster and conference. And he has been great this year, Iverson will never reach the heights of Kobe Bryant.


why isn't garnett a loser ?

Because he hasn't been surrounded with any good players since Spree and Sam left. Before that the best were Googs and Marbury (in his infancy).



why isn't webber a loser ?

Because he's a winner. Why would you call him a loser?



why isnt carter a loser ?

He is a loser, who said he wasn't?



why only iverson ?

The problem with Iverson is he will never be on a good team because he ruins team chemistry on the court. If he was to be o na good team right now, right this second you'd need to give him Shane Battier, and countless other guys that can hit open shots and play defense, and don't mind watching Iverson go one on one all game.

This thread was never meant to point out Melo, I think he is developing quite nicely, but this Nuggets team would be doing a hell of a lot betetr with Miller back and Iverson playing elsewhere.

7.4 apg
4.3 tpg
Sums his game up.

[AIR_ball_Jordan]

[QUOTE=Se

[BIG FURB]

AI's no loser, just needs to be surrounded by the right supporting cast to be effective. Actually, like most great perimeter players, if you team him up with a dominant big man he'd be wreaking havoc on the league. In today's league only kobe, Wade, Parker and Ginobli (and to a lesser extent rip and billups) have had that privilege. If AI's a loser so is Pierce, Vince, T-mac, Ray and every other sg that have never been on any true contenders. But just like AI if you give any of those guys a great big man to play with then percepton of their greatness will change.

[DreamRockets]

Because he's a winner. Why would you call him a loser?

webber is a winner ? the guy was the lakers whipping boy for years, he hasn't even made it to the finals. mybe asking that "josh howard" timeout in college makes you think he is a winner ? :confusedshrug:


because he hasn't been surrounded with any good players since Spree and Sam left.

i guess iverson was sorrounded by legends in phily :rolleyes:

now that spree and cassell arent in minny to get KG past the 1st round i guess he is showing his true colors, a winner ? please.

by those standards shaq and duncan are the only winners in this league.

[c_az_a]

exactly. Tmac, vince, Nash, Pierce, KG, etc.....none of them have ever tasted the playoff success that AI has but yet he gets the "loser" reputation.:oldlol: the guy has gone farther than most superstars in this league will ever get.

Nash never played in the East w/either the Mavs or Suns. Remember, AI played in the Eastern Conference. The Eastern Conference is like a filler for the West in the win column. Lucky the East top team has an easier road to the finals. AI taste of success will never happen as long as he continues to put "I" in team. The guy is good because he shoots 30 shots to score 30 pts. And that's why his team loses.

[Rasheed1]

Nash never played in the East w/either the Mavs or Suns. Remember, AI played in the Eastern Conference. The Eastern Conference is like a filler for the West in the win column. Lucky the East top team has an easier road to the finals. AI taste of success will never happen as long as he continues to put "I" in team. The guy is good because he shoots 30 shots to score 30 pts. And that's why his team loses.


the "he plays in the east" excuse is played out and lame.. Cant we raise the bar here? no more of this lame excuse when backed into a corner..

[AIR_ball_Jordan]

the "he plays in the east" excuse is played out and lame.. Cant we raise the bar here? no more of this lame excuse when backed into a corner..
:roll: :cheers:

[lakers-city]

sometimes a player not winning doesnt mean he is bad, but other was better. wilt is arguably the most dominant of all-time, don't you think that him winning only 2 rings has something to do with perpetually running into the "lord of the rings" ?

http://www.hollywoodcollectibles.com/images/russell.jpg

[dejordan]

sometimes a player not winning doesnt mean he is bad, but other was better. wilt is arguably the most dominant of all-time, don't you think that him winning only 2 rings has something to do with perpetually running into the "lord of the rings" ?

http://www.hollywoodcollectibles.com/images/russell.jpg
yeah, running into that whole celtics team was a problem! they were HoF city.

[AI Nuggets3]

im still wondering how KG, Pierce, Tmac, Kobe, Nash, and Vince are winners when they've never taken a team to the finals like that loser Iverson did. :D

anyone? anyone? surely, AI can't have the best playoff run of all of these guys?? i would just like to see some matching topics for the above players just to be fair. they've all played just as long basically and have never gotten farther than AI.

but i do laugh at the folks who say he only got to the Finals because he was in the East. that Sixers team was the only team to even threaten the Lakers or even give them fits. probably wouldve pushed it to 6 games if they werent so injured. if they were both in the West that easily couldve been the Western Finals that year.

[samlee78]

1- A FRANKENSTEIN'S TEAM.
A group of aged guys who like to play set offence (Prince, Mcdyess, Wallace….) VS. young guns who like to run.

2- THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.
Two scoring superstars on the same position don’t mix.

3- I DOMINATE THE ROCK.
Iverson has always played with "low profile" players, Sheed, Hamilton, Prince and Mcdyess aren’t AI's type of teammates.

4- ROOKIE COACH.
Curry over Flip??

5- 12.7 PPG 7.6 RPG 1.1 APG.
And was ejected Wednesday night!

Iverson is a player that demands the ball, he is a scoring MONSTER. If you recruit a monster at your office, and ask him to act like an employee, he will eat you alive!

You cant blame the monster for doing what he does, its he who brought the monster that should be blamed!!

P.S: and traded Billups.

[kap]

i was watching the bos det game right now, but det pisses me off too much. i'd rather watch the thunder. so i turned it off

[samlee78]

i was watching the bos det game right now, but det pisses me off too much. i'd rather watch the thunder. so i turned it off
hehehe iam not missing det vs bos pal :)

[BlazersDozen]

I thought it was obvious that it's because of Iverson not fitting with the system and I also thought it was obvious that he wouldn't fit that system before the trade was even made.

[nbastatus]

AI = cancer

[samlee78]

AI = cancer

since when?????
all the teams he had been into has been winning teams :confusedshrug:

[1~Gibson~1]

because they have Rip coming off the bench and a rookie coach.

[JJ81]

They beat Boston by 10.

[detsportsfan3]

:applause:

[embersyc]

The Pistons should seriously just waive AI.

[DeuceWallaces]

This is great insight! I haven't seen ANY posts like this the past 2 months. Thanks again and please come back.

[2LeTTeRS]

The Pistons have gone on a 2 game winning streak that coincides with AI being injured, and Rip starting. Just saying.

[Maniak]

They beat Boston by 10.

Without KG.

[rox fa sho]

its not ai, its their roation. rip and ai should be starting, stuceky off the bench. stuckey isnt better than both ai or rip. prince cant guard pfs.

small ball killed them and they keep doing it.

[embersyc]

its not ai, its their roation. rip and ai should be starting, stuceky off the bench. stuckey isnt better than both ai or rip. prince cant guard pfs.

small ball killed them and they keep doing it.

Who is gonna run the offense if Stuckey goes to the bench? We already tried starting AI at the point with Rip at the two and it was a miserable failure.

[Orlando Magic]

Every one he goes to is better after he leaves!

[TakitoEspanoza]

Yes

[crounsa810]

Holy ****!!! Another thread!!!!!

[samlee78]

This is great insight! I haven't seen ANY posts like this the past 2 months. Thanks again and please come back.

I ll be around. thanx :)

[schism206]

2 wins against 2 of the best teams on the road without AI... I know it's only 2 games but thats pretty convincing evidence so far that they are better without him. Stuckey looked better in terms of taking more quality shots as well (at least in the orlando game I didn't see the celts but I guess he had 5 assists and 50% shooting with 1 TO).

[clayton]

Rip was right after all. They started losing when he sat on the bench.

[rox fa sho]

Who is gonna run the offense if Stuckey goes to the bench? We already tried starting AI at the point with Rip at the two and it was a miserable failure.

its not a failiure. it takes time to gel, thats wat they needed to do w/ ai. instead they decided to go small ball while iverson was getting used to the system then thing went south.

they also screwed up by signin kwame to an 8mil 2 year contract. he obvioulsy will never be starter matieral or decent backup so 8mil is way too much.

[Maniak]

Why must another AI thread be made, I fcking hate all you trolls.

And no, he doesnt. Philly is an example

[D-Rose]

EDIT: Picture won't show :oldlol:

[Killbot]

Geez. How much threads are there going to be of AI being a cancer? Why can't you guys just look at the first page, and see an AI thread, and then post your opinions there, rather than making another thread. It's not that hard really.

[East River Livn']

Why must another AI thread be made, I fcking hate all you trolls.

And no, he doesnt. Philly is an example

Yeah but that Philly team was probably the worst team ever to make it to the finals, worse than the 99 Knicks. The east was so watered down at that time it wasn't even funny. If AI's Philly team had been in the west, they would have been lucky just to make the playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

Philly had not been relevant since 1991 when he got there. 2 years later they are a solid playoff team. Won 48 or more 3 times despite never having much talent and made the finals. People praise Brown and the defense but nobody who watched those teams can dispute that AI was the heart and soul of them. He was out there getting 2-3 50 point games a series. Getting like 22/16 to push the mto the finals in game 7 vs the Bucks. Giving the Lakers 48-50 and stepping over Lue. 55 point playoff games. He was Philly. He went to Denver and they didnt win in the playoffs but its not like the yhad done it before he got there. AI got them to their first 50 win season in 20 YEARS. They had not won 50 since 1988.

The Pistons being worse doesnt mean he just kills teams. Its in fact the first team hes gone to that wasnt better than before he got there. And look at the Pistons. They have been the most consistient team in basketball for 6-7 years. Set an NBA record for number of consecutive games with the same starting 5.

Remove their point and replace him with a scorer while swapping out coaches? Them being worse is to be expected. The Pistons thrived on consistiency and chemistry. Adding a ball dependant scoring superstar is gonna throw that off.

Ai being 5'11'' doesnt make him a "pure" pointguard. On some teams hes gonna be a huge benefit on others...older set in their ways teams? Gonna be an issue.

Calling him a franchise destroyed for this is like if the Jazz traded Stockton for Dominique Wilkins and they got worse.

One guy being the better player in the eys of many doesnt mean hes the better player for every team. Steve Nash left the Mavs and they got better. Doesnt mean he was holding them back. Chris Webber got hurt in the 03 playoffs and missed most of 04. Kings were 1 or 2 in the west much of the year. He gets back and they have issues. Peja no longer the MVP contender people had him listed as(still finished 4th though). Doesnt mean Chris Webber was bad for the Kings.

Means you dont play the same way no matter your personel. Especially when you drop in someone who has little value if not touching the ball. On the pistons? A team that not too long ago sent 4 people to the all star game?

You dont change the point to a superstar scorer with no change. They were giving up on the teams they had the minute they traded for Iverson. Hes a 22 million dollar expiring contract on a team that now has 40 million(44 if Kwame doesnt return) coming off this summer.

It was a money move by a team that decided they had peaked. A team breaks up a working formula for money reasons while also displacing the teams remaining franchise player and it struggles? Shocking development.

[Rekindled]

philly got better after AI left? GTFO hater.

[rox fa sho]

he does need the ball in his hands but w/ the team detroit has he wont need to put up 25-35 ppg. they have plenty of offense, so all ai has to do is score and run the offense.

as ai adjusts to the system, they decide to play small ball. bad move, prince cant guard pfs all the time, he's meant to guard wing players, not post players.

rip and ai should be starting, stuckey off the bench. ****ed up on that

signed kwame to an 8mil contract


bad season but not terrible. they shouldnt be this bad, al lthey had to do is stop playing small ball.

thye need to find inside scoring this summer. either that or play really small ball w/ prince at center. nah, thats stupid, just like playing prince at pf.

[PistolPete]

He is a bonafide loser in my opinion. He can score points, but he does not help teams win because he is not a team leader. He has always been in it for himself and never about the team. "We talkin' 'bout practiss" goes a long way in determining his value and team success.

[kNIOKAS]

i thiks he eats them

[bdreason]

Every one he goes to is better after he leaves!

Which team was better?

Philly became nothing without AI, and Denver was a 50+ win team with AI.

I put AI's struggles in Detroit mostly on Curry and Dumars.

[bdreason]

He is a bonafide loser in my opinion. He can score points, but he does not help teams win because he is not a team leader. He has always been in it for himself and never about the team. "We talkin' 'bout practiss" goes a long way in determining his value and team success.

He took Philly to the Finals, and the Nuggets were a 50+ win team. :confusedshrug:

[knickscity]

Detroit was on the decline anyway. They had just missed the conference finals that they was regularly a participant in.

They said change was coming.

They changed coach and playmaker.

I guess Denver is better defensively because Camby got traded.:confusedshrug:

[PistolPete]

He took Philly to the Finals, and the Nuggets were a 50+ win team. :confusedshrug:

Once, and the Nuggets were already a good team in a tough Western Conference. Now that he has left, they are even better. What does that say? Does it mean Chauncey is a better player? Yes and No.

[bdreason]

Once, and the Nuggets were already a good team in a tough Western Conference. Now that he has left, they are even better. What does that say? Does it mean Chauncey is a better player? Yes and No.

It surely doesn't mean "AI destroys franchises".

If you really want to talk about value to a franchise, I bet AI is one of the most valuable (revenue) assets in the world.

[tontoz]

Which team was better?

Philly became nothing without AI, and Denver was a 50+ win team with AI.

I put AI's struggles in Detroit mostly on Curry and Dumars.

Philly was a losing team when he was there. now they are at .500 even though Brand went down. They won 40 the year before.

Denver won 49 games before iverson got there. They won 50 (not 50+) with him. Big deal.

They are 19 games over .500 without him.

[Kblaze8855]

He is a bonafide loser in my opinion. He can score points, but he does not help teams win because he is not a team leader. He has always been in it for himself and never about the team. "We talkin' 'bout practiss" goes a long way in determining his value and team success.

Amusing coming from someone named Pistol Pete. Pete Maravich was by wins and losses among the biggest losers of all time. Was so unwanted and unrespected in his day that when the Hawks tried to trade him nobody wanted him. And that not my opinion. The Hawks GM at the time flatly said so on Pete Sportscentury show. They only got rid of him by sending him to the expansion Jazz who needed him to draw fans since they were in New Orleans and he went to LSU. When AI gets to the hall Pete will be one of a good number of players who were waaaaaaaaaaaaay less successful than him.

You know Pete actually got the injury that sidelined his career by falling attempting a pointless through the legs pass on the break? The greatest loser and turnover machine(He had a year of 5 turnovers to just and 5.5 assists) in the hall of fame derailed his career doing the very thing that made nobody want him on their team. Playing showoff ball that didnt help the teams win. Even in college he never won. Never made the tournament and didnt even get to the NIT finals. Hes the most consistiently failing legend perhaps in all pro sports. Even Joe Namath won for a little while.

Not trying to get on you personally it just brings to my attention to the double standard people often have. I dont even know if you actually like Pete. I like him personality and work ethic wise. But he is with little doubt the biggest loser ever to recieve near the praise he does. He had 2 winning seasons in his career and one of them he was a role player on Birds celtics and the other he was led by Lou Hudson. The guy who had the Hawks around 50 wins both years before Pete got there and they sucked all of a sudden.

Hate to get all off the point but...seeing the name Pistol Pete while someone talks about Allen Iverson being a loser...cant help myself.

[GOBB]

Philly was a losing team when he was there. now they are at .500 even though Brand went down. They won 40 the year before.

They won 40 but when you look at the Eastern Conference there are a handful of teams who were smacked with significant injuries that the Sixers benefitted from. They overachieved bigtime.

With AI Sixers were a legit playoff team
Without AI Sixers simply arent

[tontoz]

They won 40 but when you look at the Eastern Conference there are a handful of teams who were smacked with significant injuries that the Sixers benefitted from. They overachieved bigtime.

With AI Sixers were a legit playoff team
Without AI Sixers simply arent

the Sixers won 38 games in Iverson's last full year there. is that your idea of a legit playoff team?

[jamal99]

there's like 10 threads on AI on the 1st page...

[Styles p]

ill take him back on the sixers we need a scorer.

[GOBB]

the Sixers won 38 games in Iverson's last full year there. is that your idea of a legit playoff team?

So what?

[tontoz]

So what?


It was a yes or no question.

[East River Livn']

The Sixers had a good run with AI when the EC was one of the, if not THE, weakest conferences in NBA history. That is an indisputable fact.

[GOBB]

No its a what is your point statement.

[GOBB]

The Sixers had a good run with AI when the EC was one of the, if not THE, weakest conferences in NBA history. That is an indisputable fact.

Exagerrate to make your point. Cant do it without huh? :oldlol:

But you keep typing it was the weakest in NBA history. Prove it now. Shouldnt be hard since its an indisputable fact. Take your time.

[francesco totti]

The Sixers had a good run with AI when the EC was one of the, if not THE, weakest conferences in NBA history. That is an indisputable fact.


so why did no western team win a single game vs the lakers in playoffs but the sixers did??? :confusedshrug:

[East River Livn']

so why did no western team win a single game vs the lakers in playoffs but the sixers did??? :confusedshrug:

The same reason that the Bobcats beat the current Lakers. They were already looking at the trophy ahead. After that loss, the Lakers knocked the not out of them with a sweep. Take a look at the EC teams to make the CF when Philly was decent and their records. That simple.

[tontoz]

No its a what is your point statement.

You said.


With AI Sixers were a legit playoff team


So I asked if you considered a 38 win team a legit playoff team. it isn't complex.

[lilmarcgasol]

In answer to your question in the thread title I pose to you another question:

Is water wet?

[Riker]

Whoa at you jumpin to conclusion without thinking it trough first



Does AI destroy franchises?


BUT........DO FRANCHISES DESTROY AI ?!?1?!11

[GOBB]

So I asked if you considered a 38 win team a legit playoff team. it isn't complex

No they werent a playoff team at that time. Again what is your point?

[tontoz]

No they werent a playoff team at that time. Again what is your point?


The point is that they weren't a legit playoff team when Iverson left so saying they aren't a legit playoff team now is irrelevant. They also obviously haven't missed him. Neither has Denver.

[GOBB]

The point is that they weren't a legit playoff team when Iverson left so saying they aren't a legit playoff team now is irrelevant. They also obviously haven't missed him. Neither has Denver.

Sixers werent a legit playoff team when AI played his first year in the NBA either. Again your point? Seems to be lost here.

Sixers havent missed Allen Iverson buy they went out (after they won thier wittle 40 gms) and paid a player the kind of bucks an AI caliber player commands. But I guess the Sixers are better without Brand too and dont miss him much right? :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Sixers werent a legit playoff team when AI played his first year in the NBA either. Again your point? Seems to be lost here.

Sixers havent missed Allen Iverson buy they went out (after they won thier wittle 40 gms) and paid a player the kind of bucks an AI caliber player commands. But I guess the Sixers are better without Brand too and dont miss him much right? :oldlol:


Dude i know you aren't this dumb. Your point that the Sixers aren't a legit playoff team now is completely irrelevant because they weren't any good with him. they only won 38 games and will probably make the playoffs for the second straight year without him this year.

They signed Brand because they hoped he would take them to the next level. They obviously weren't going to be title contenders with the team they had. it hasn't worked out that way because he is hurt and was already coming off a season ending injury.

iverson fanboys just crack me up.

[GOBB]

Your point that the Sixers aren't a legit playoff team now is completely irrelevant because they weren't any good with him.

Yeah they werent any good with AI. Ok, gotcha.

Clueless just individuals crack me up.

[tontoz]

Yeah they werent any good with AI. Ok, gotcha.

Clueless just individuals crack me up.

So a 38 win team is good? ok

:rolleyes:

[LBJ 4 MVP]

Who's more of a cancer?

Who's a bigger ballhog?

Who's the worst player?

Who has the coolest tattoo's?

Who has the best chance at winning a championship? (None will cause they're all cancers, but who has the best chance?)

Who would you most like to have a beer with?

How many Finals MVP's will these three end up with ?(easy answer)

Who would win in a fight to the death?


Btw, for those of you too dense to realize. This thread is not serious. This thread was made to make fun of the amount of hate that Stephon Marbury, Allen Iverson and Kobe Bryant have been receiving as of late. I personally, am fans of these three players and wish them all the success in their future. Again, this thread is NOT serious.

[Riker]

Well if Kobe is considered a cancer.........where's JAMES


HE NOT ONLY IS A CANCER


HE'S A CRAB TYPE OF CANCER

[GOBB]

So a 38 win team is good? ok

:rolleyes:

You pick a season when they missed the playoffs. AI and the Sixers made the playoffs 6 straight season prior to that. :oldlol: Again what is your point? Sixers with AI in his rookie season didnt make the playoffs either. Why not use that? Maybe it doesnt help your weak argument? Ok.

:rolleyes:

[halffttime]

Well if Kobe is considered a cancer.........where's JAMES


HE NOT ONLY IS A CANCER


HE'S A CRAB TYPE OF CANCER

:lol :lol :lol

NAAAATS...

[King_Poetic]

Well if Kobe is considered a cancer.........where's JAMES



Probably somewhere fuccin a model while your virgin ass is posting about him from fuccin Croatia.

[Al Thornton]

nope, he is a great player

[YAWN]

LBJ 4 MVP
No LeBron Homer...

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[tontoz]

You pick a season where AI and the Sixers made the playoffs 6 straight season. :oldlol: Again what is your point? Sixers with AI in his rookie season didnt make the playoffs either. Why not use that? Maybe it doesnt help your weak argument? Ok.

:rolleyes:

The guys he played with in his rookie year are gone. The guys he played with in his last season kept playing after he left and won more games without him. that is a fact.

they are about to make the playoffs twice in a row without him.

Keep trying to rationalize. You are just making yourself look more and more like a groupie.

[East River Livn']

nope, he is a great player


So is Baron Davis....

[Riker]

Probably somewhere fuccin a model while your virgin ass is posting about him from fuccin Croatia.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause: :applause: :applause:

GOAT reply

[D-Rose]

Hey GOBB, serious question. Would you agree to the Sixers dropping Miller and picking up Iverson in the off season?

[East River Livn']

AI
Marbury
LeBron

A better comparison? All-Stars with no championships? :confusedshrug:

[JJ81]

Who's more of a cancer? Marbury, Iverson


Who's a bigger ballhog? Iverson, Marbury

Who's the worst player? Marbury

Who has the coolest tattoo's? Who cares?

Who has the best chance at winning a championship? (None will cause they're all cancers, but who has the best chance?) Lakers will win the championship.

Who would you most like to have a beer with? Kobe because he plays for my favourite team.

How many Finals MVP's will these three end up with ? Iverson and Marbury wont get any and Kobe will get 3.



By the way, baiting isn't allowed in these forums? Right?

[GOBB]

The guys he played with in his last season kept playing after he left and won more games without him. that is a fact.

Webber left as well. But no one cares even tho he not only ate a big chunk of payroll but was the 2nd scorer/rebounder for the Sixers. The whole Sixers won without AI when he was traded? This is always overlooked.

30-37 without AI
5-10 with AI

Sixers played 67gms without AI so its inevitable they would win MORE than the 5gms WITH AI in his 15gms played for them early in the season. I mean you really led a gem.

It was also cute when you typed "that is a fact" like you just hit a walk off home run. :roll:


they are about to make the playoffs twice in a row without him.

Last season they overachieved. And again you ignore how significant injuries crippled better teams and teams as good if not slightly better. Sixers capatilized off of it. It's hardly ANYTHING to brag about. Thats why the Sixers went out and added Elton Brand. He wasnt added to make them Finals contender or EC finals contender. He was brought in to not only improve areas of weakness but make them consistent winners, playoff contenders. In other words legit playoff contenders which goes back to my initial point.

But hey Sixers are winning without Brand, that is a fact.


Keep trying to rationalize. You are just making yourself look more and more like a groupie.

No I'm bytch slapping all your weak points Mr. Clueless. Keep them coming, trying to set a record here.

*waits*

[brwnman]

30-37 without AI
5-10 with AI

Sixers played 67gms without AI so its inevitable they would win MORE than the 5gms WITH AI in his 15gms played for them early in the season. I mean you really led a gem.

Ratios? Yea, it is inevitable that they would win more, but the winning percentage doesn't lie. I am not trying to argue one way or the other, but Philly was/is a better team without AI and Andre Miller leading the charge with the collection of players they have. AI needs an offense that will let him do his thing and give him space and he's pretty good at it too. It's just that a lot of teams aren't built like that and with him in Detroit isn't the greatest of matches, because Pistons' players aren't willing to adapt to that style...

[GOBB]

Ratios? Yea, it is inevitable that they would win more, but the winning percentage doesn't lie.

Your post is right on cue. Read up kid...


Also to piggyback a bit

Sixers 2 years with AI in Denver? The first 15gms...

1rst year 5-10
2nd year 7-8

My point? While Sixers were 5-10 with AI before he ends up traded to Denver. To THINK the Sixers couldnt win as many if not more games had they kept AI is a bit silly. To judge 15gms (5-10) then go on to say "They won without AI, see" is a bit petty if you look at things as a simpleton (as you do). Who knows what the team record would be had AI stuck around those 2 seasons instead of being traded. But anyone to speak on it and say "See they are winning without him" is amusing. Keep it coming.

[East River Livn']

The Sixers with AI in 2001 wouldn't even make the postseason if they were in the west today.

[tontoz]

The whole Sixers won without AI when he was traded? This is always overlooked.

30-37 without AI
5-10 with AI



So their winning percentage was

45% with Iverson
33% without iverson

and you think this info helps your argument? :oldlol:


Last season they overachieved. And again you ignore how significant injuries crippled better teams and teams as good if not slightly better. Sixers capatilized off of it.

Injuries are part of the game. Funny how the team decides to overachieve as soon as Iverson leaves. Brand went down so i guess they are overachieving for the second straight season without Iverson. What a surprise.

Meanwhile Detroit has been underachieving with him. I suppose that it is just a coincidence. it is also a coincidence that Denver is playing better without him as well. Sure