Be honest, Do you know that 5 secs reset during jump ball exists?

[dbugz]

or whatever they are calling it.

Didn't know there's such rule as that.

Stupid rule or not? I'm not sure about the logic behind that rule.

[SyRyanYang]

Pretty sure the refs made that up during this game

[TMT]

I thought there was just 5 seconds left on that particular shot clock possession for Miami?

[Batz]

Nope, never heard of it. Don't know why it matters, unless such a rule doesn't exist.

Pretty sure the refs made that up during this game
Van Gundy and Breen called the rule even before the shot clock was adjusted to 5 secs. I still have never heard of it.

[LBJMVP]

i could have sworn that i've seen the clock shot remain at where it was at the time the jump ball was called multiple times.

[iamgine]

or whatever they are calling it.

Didn't know there's such rule as that.

Stupid rule or not? I'm not sure about the logic behind that rule.
I'm guessing the logic would be if there's not enough time, then no one would want the ball.

[LBJMVP]

I thought there was just 5 seconds left on that particular shot clock possession for Miami?

no, there was only .8

i remeber van gundy or breen saying that harden should have just let haslem have the ball so time would run out.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Yeah I knew about it. But if you are Westbrook you should always be looking at the game clock and shot clock. It was right there the whole time.

[tastystaci]

I have watched basketball all my life and didn't know it reset to 5 seconds. Why they would have such a rule to penalize the defense is beyond me. And after Westbrook played an amazing game, there is no excuse for not looking up and seeing that the shot clock reads 5 seconds and the game clock is 13+. You are the PG. This is inexcusable IMO.

[RazorBaLade]

nope thought they got a stop. sucks

[konex]

It only happened that way because the shot clock expired when Harden tied up the Heat player (That was the first mistake. It was an airball :facepalm )

[50inchvertical]

I did not know.

[dbugz]

It should have been reset back to 24 seconds(Westbrook though it was) or not reset it at all.

But 5 seconds? It's so fckn random. :facepalm :facepalm

[Batz]

no, there was only .8

i remeber van gundy or breen saying that harden should have just let haslem have the ball so time would run out.
Yeah what a melt-down for the Thunder. :hammerhead:

[tpols]

There was only 1 second left when Haslem caught the ball.. Harden shoulda let go right after he got his hands on the ball and it wouldve been a shotclock violation.

[LBJMVP]

[QUOTE=nba.com]2003-04

[dbugz]

There was only 1 second left when Haslem caught the ball.. Harden shoulda let go right after he got his hands on the ball and it wouldve been a shotclock violation.


It's hard to think that way if you're in that situation. Your 1st initial reaction is to get/grab that fckn ball whatever happens.

[tpols]

It's hard to think that way if you're in that situation. Your 1st initial reaction is to get/grab that fckn ball whatever happens.
Yea I know haha.. hindsights 20/20.

That one play where Lebron hit the 3 to put MIA up 3 and completely turn the momentum though? That was inexcusable by sefolosha.. James could barely run and was at the peak of his 'cramps' and there was sub 3 seconds on the shotclock and Sef let him completely dribble into a groove and pretty much shoot an open shot. Cant believe he didnt push the issue there especially knowing the shotclock situation.

[Bernie Nips]

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

still seems like it is penalizing the defense.

Whoa, are you saying the defense should be gifted something when they fail to get a defensive rebound?

That's logic right there!

[LBJMVP]

Whoa, are you saying the defense should be gifted something when they fail to get a defensive rebound?

That's logic right there!


no... the possession of the ball never switch so why should the shot clock change?

of the shot clock has more than 5 seconds on it the time remains the same?

why dont they add on time then? why should the offense be rewarded with 4 seconds on that play for an not getting off a good shot, airballing it, and not getting the offensive rebound?

[G-train]

So they should throw the ball up and as soon as it is tipped the shot clock expires?
Not how it works. Its an even possession, the offence earnt the right to get a shot off by collecting offensive rebound.

[dbugz]

So they should throw the ball up and as soon as it is tipped the shot clock expires?
Not how it works. Its an even possession, the offence earnt the right to get a shot off by collecting offensive rebound.


I think they need to change that rule. Just like fouling rule that when someone foul a players and the offensive side (Will vary on which half court does that jump ball took place) has below 14 seconds shot clock, it will be reset back again to 14. Will be fair to both offensive and defensive side.

[LBJMVP]

So they should throw the ball up and as soon as it is tipped the shot clock expires?
Not how it works. Its an even possession, the offence earnt the right to get a shot off by collecting offensive rebound.


thats exactly how it should work.

the shot clock stays the same if its greater than five seconds.... why not when it is lower?

its still the same possession, and if the ball never switches possessions the shot clock shouldnt change.

you used up 23 seconds of your possession, but you magically get 4 more just because?

[Clutch]

I think it's a stupid rule but I knew about it. I saw it multiple times.

[Ketchup]

I think they need to change that rule. Just like fouling rule that when someone foul a players and the offensive side (Will vary on which half court does that jump ball took place) has below 14 seconds shot clock, it will be reset back again to 14. Will be fair to both offensive and defensive side.

If you change the rule, then the offensive team will not want the ball. What's the point of the jump? They can't get any sort of shot off.

[dbugz]

If you change the rule, then the offensive team will not want the ball. What's the point of the jump? They can't get any sort of shot off.


I'm not sure if we're on the same page, but why will the offensive team don't want it? It's a ball possession with a fresh 14 seconds shot clock again. :confusedshrug:

[comerb]

or whatever they are calling it.

Didn't know there's such rule as that.

Stupid rule or not? I'm not sure about the logic behind that rule.

It's so that doing the jump ball isn't pointless for the team w/ no time left on the shot clock.

But no, I wasn't aware of it. I do like the rule though.

[dbugz]

It's so that doing the jump ball isn't pointless for the team w/ no time left on the shot clock.

But no, I wasn't aware of it. I do like the rule though.


It's penalizing the defensive team for having a good defense that melted that 24 seconds shot clock. How is it a good rule? Shot clock should have remained as is.

[Clutch]

It's penalizing the defensive team for having a good defense that melted that 24 seconds shot clock. How is it a good rule? Shot clock should have remained as is.
I agree with this.

[G-train]

thats exactly how it should work.

the shot clock stays the same if its greater than five seconds.... why not when it is lower?

its still the same possession, and if the ball never switches possessions the shot clock shouldnt change.

you used up 23 seconds of your possession, but you magically get 4 more just because?

the ball has changed possession - to both teams.
so a jump ball is thrown.
it is no advantage to the team that secured possession as well.
In fact I think it used to be 14 seconds, not 5 seconds.

[comerb]

It's penalizing the defensive team for having a good defense that melted that 24 seconds shot clock. How is it a good rule? Shot clock should have remained as is.

I just explained why. Throwing up a tip and having the shot clock expire immediately would be stupid.

[ihoopallday]

If you're an NBA player, you should know the rule. Lol I sure as hell didn't know about it till Van Gundy said it. It really doesn't seem fair for the defense though.

[Ketchup]

It's penalizing the defensive team for having a good defense that melted that 24 seconds shot clock. How is it a good rule? Shot clock should have remained as is.

The defending team couldn't get the rebound, hold the ball, or whatever it is, and they got tied up. Shouldn't reward them either for being careless. You need to play defense for 24 seconds, not 23.2.

[blacknapalm]

i didn't know about the rule. it begins with coach brooks...he has to let his players know of different situations. bucher actually said brooks told them and wb even looked up at the jumbo tron so idk.

btw, this was corroborated in the post-game presser where wb said it was a miscommunication. you can decide who was at fault...the easy thing to do is say brooks didn't explain it well but there you go. it's almost school-like. if you don't understand something, don't be afraid to ask a question. finals, heat of the moment thing

[dbugz]

I just explained why. Throwing up a tip and having the shot clock expire immediately would be stupid.

And that's the goal of the defensive team, to play good defense so the offensive team will be having hard time shooting the ball that will lead to shot clock expiration.

Where's the logic of playing good defense if the offensive team will be having extra 5 seconds shot clock to score just like on that situation.

[dbugz]

The defending team couldn't get the rebound, hold the ball, or whatever it is, and they got tied up. Shouldn't reward them either for being careless. You need to play defense for 24 seconds, not 23.2.


And the offensive team will be rewarded with 5 seconds shot clock for having a poor offensive execution? the fck??? :wtf:

[Ketchup]

And the offensive team will be rewarded with 5 seconds shot clock for having a poor offensive execution? the fck??? :wtf:

If the ball is tied up, it has essentially changed possession. It is no longer in the possession of the offensive or defensive team. So some reprise has to be sought out.

It would be ridiculously stupid to not add on, because then what? The offensive team gets the ball and it's a turnover right away. Or, you just give the ball to the defensive team, but that's not correct, since the other team hasn't used all their shot clock. Then you could just give it back to the offensive team on the sideline with 0.8 remaining... But then they could draw up a play and call a timeout right before that getting an advantage.

The best idea is to still have it a toss up and add a minimal amount of time remaining. Does that make sense? It's more like a best option out of a whole bunch of bad options when it comes to that situation. There is no fair outcome really.

[bluechox2]

never seen this rule ever before..must be a new rule the league created for lebron

[talkingconch]

http://i.imgur.com/KN3FK.gif

[RazorBaLade]

I just explained why. Throwing up a tip and having the shot clock expire immediately would be stupid.

I guess so. Even on deflections out of bounds etc they add time to the shot clock. It makes sense, its just unfortunate.

[dbugz]

Like what I said on my earlier post, if there's already a change in ball possession why not reset it back to 24 (Westbrook thought it was that's why he foul right away) ? If ball possession will only be their basis on that rule they should reset it back to 24 seconds just like what the OKC should have get if they won that jump ball.


It's unfair to the defensive team imo.

[tastystaci]

I just explained why. Throwing up a tip and having the shot clock expire immediately would be stupid..

Why would that be stupid. The defense has forced a shot clock violation. It's stupid that you would defend somebody for 23.2 seconds, then have an additional five seconds added just because you made a good defensive play. Amazing people actually defend such a horrible rule.

[Ketchup]

Why would that be stupid. The defense has forced a shot clock violation. It's stupid that you would defend somebody for 23.2 seconds, then have an additional five seconds added just because you made a good defensive play. Amazing people actually defend such a horrible rule.

So do you suggest that the offensive team be given the ball on the sideline with 0.8 left?

If not, then why should there be 0.8 left if they don't have possession since it's a jump ball?

[RazorBaLade]

Why would that be stupid. The defense has forced a shot clock violation. It's stupid that you would defend somebody for 23.2 seconds, then have an additional five seconds added just because you made a good defensive play. Amazing people actually defend such a horrible rule.

But what about deflections?

If you defend well for 23 seconds and then knock the ball out of bounds with a kick or hand it goes back to 14!

Same principle..

[tastystaci]

So do you suggest that the offensive team be given the ball on the sideline with 0.8 left?

If not, then why should there be 0.8 left if they don't have possession since it's a jump ball?

Not at all. That would be even more retarded. Jump ball with .8 seconds which will obviously lead to a shot clock violation is what should happen. Possession has not changed. The last team to posess the ball was Miami. Until that changes, the shot clock doesn't reset. Same reason it doesn't reset on a loose ball. If Durant tips the ball out toward the back court, even though Miami technically didn't possess the ball, either has the Thunder. That would be a shot clock violation. Why penalize a team because they've made a good defensive play?

[tastystaci]

But what about deflections?

If you defend well for 23 seconds and then knock the ball out of bounds with a kick or hand it goes back to 14!

Same principle..

No, it doesn't at all. Only a kicked ball because this isn't soccer and it's not a legal defensive play to kick the ball would the shot clock reset. If they make a good defensive play, aka, tip it out of bounds, it would be a 24 second violation.

[dbugz]

But what about deflections?

If you defend well for 23 seconds and then knock the ball out of bounds with a kick or hand it goes back to 14!

Same principle..


A kick is a violation whether it's unintentional or intentional, it is not allowed to deflect a ball using your feet.

But don't tell me that playing good straight up defense now is a violation as well?

[Ketchup]

Not at all. That would be even more retarded. Jump ball with .8 seconds which will obviously lead to a shot clock violation is what should happen. Possession has not changed. The last team to posess the ball was Miami. Until that changes, the shot clock doesn't reset. Same reason it doesn't reset on a loose ball. If Durant tips the ball out toward the back court, even though Miami technically didn't possess the ball, either has the Thunder. That would be a shot clock violation. Why penalize a team because they've made a good defensive play?

Maybe the Heat made a good defensive play to tie it back up? Giving the ball to the defensive team pretty much is undeserved to since they were unable to secure the rebound, or got tied up with it.

[tastystaci]

Maybe the Heat made a good defensive play to tie it back up? Giving the ball to the defensive team pretty much is undeserved to since they were unable to secure the rebound, or got tied up with it.

Lol, they made a good defensive play when they had possession? :roll: That's impossible. Until possession changes, they are offense and the shot clock rolls

[dbugz]

Not at all. That would be even more retarded. Jump ball with .8 seconds which will obviously lead to a shot clock violation is what should happen. Possession has not changed. The last team to posess the ball was Miami. Until that changes, the shot clock doesn't reset. Same reason it doesn't reset on a loose ball. If Durant tips the ball out toward the back court, even though Miami technically didn't possess the ball, either has the Thunder. That would be a shot clock violation. Why penalize a team because they've made a good defensive play?

This.

I don't know why people keep on telling that there's a change in ball possession, because if there was, shot clock should have reset back to 24.

Shot clock should have remained as is on that situation.

[RazorBaLade]

u guys sure that it doesnt reset if you tip it out? o_o

[dbugz]

Maybe the Heat made a good defensive play to tie it back up? Giving the ball to the defensive team pretty much is undeserved to since they were unable to secure the rebound, or got tied up with it.

If this is going to be your reason, then we need to reward the offensive team by adding 5 more seconds to the shot clock that makes it 29 shot clock reset for every offensive rebounds :oldlol: :oldlol:

[tastystaci]

u guys sure that it doesnt reset if you tip it out? o_o

I would literally bet my life on it

[therammingman]

I didnt know and ive wAtched ball over 20 years. I always saw that if the tesm who had offensive possession prior to the jump would get whatever amount of time was left on their respective possession....in this case, .8

I dont ever remember seeing it reset to 5.

[Ketchup]

This.

I don't know why people keep on telling that there's a change in ball possession, because if there was, shot clock should have reset back to 24.

Shot clock should have remained as is on that situation.

Is it in possession of the offensive team anymore? No.

That answers your question.

[dbugz]

Is it in possession of the offensive team anymore? No.

That answers your question.


Only proves that there are flaws on that rule right? or your argument that there was a change in ball possession is wrong because Harden doesn't have the control on the ball yet.

Just in case you're going to reply on this post.


If the ball is tied up, it has essentially changed possession.


A change in ball possession means fresh 24 seconds shot clock right?

[comerb]

And that's the goal of the defensive team, to play good defense so the offensive team will be having hard time shooting the ball that will lead to shot clock expiration.

Where's the logic of playing good defense if the offensive team will be having extra 5 seconds shot clock to score just like on that situation.

You play good defense so they don't score, that's the logic behind good defense. If you don't want them to get 5 seconds on the shot clock, don't lose the tip... or don't tie them up for a jump ball in the first place.

By your logic, there shouldn't even be a jump ball with less than 5 seconds left. If I'm Miami and I had .8 seconds on the shot clock w/ a jump ball... I'm just going to let the other team win the tip and run back my defenders. It makes the jump ball completely pointless.

[dbugz]

You play good defense so they don't score. If you don't want them to get 5 seconds on the shot clock, don't lose the tip... or don't tie them up for a jump ball in the first place.

That doesn't sounds unfair to you? :wtf:

That 5 seconds reward for having a poor executed offense alone is pure BS.

and leaving the shot clock as is is unfair for the offensive team? and need to have an extra 5 seconds? wtf?

[dbugz]

By your logic, there shouldn't even be a jump ball with less than 5 seconds left. If I'm Miami and I had .8 seconds on the shot clock w/ a jump ball... I'm just going to let the other team win the tip and run back my defenders. It makes the jump ball completely pointless.

You're saying that, the 5 seconds reward shot clock is given for the offensive team just for the sense of having a jump ball? Isn't that stupid and a pure BS against the defensive team?

It goes along way with, finishing the game even if the lead is 10 points and there's only 0.9 seconds left on the game clock. Players still need to be on the court and finish the game. Pointless right? but it's the logical way.

[Ancient Legend]

You play good defense so they don't score, that's the logic behind good defense. If you don't want them to get 5 seconds on the shot clock, don't lose the tip... or don't tie them up for a jump ball in the first place.

.

I'm quite sure Harden grabbed the board and the Heat player tied him up, not the other way around.

[InfiniteBaskets]

never seen this rule ever before..must be a new rule the league created for lebron

Yes you called it man. The league is sneakily creating new rules to benefit LeBron. They even implemented this rule in the past just so when they called it in favor of LeBron it wouldn't be seen as blatent cheating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2MlYvoqog4&t=0m30s

Damn you sneaky refs, damn you!

[Jailblazers7]

Not resetting the clock would penalize the offense for coming up with an effort play on the offensive boards. A defensive possession isn't over until you secure the rebound.

[dbugz]

Not resetting the clock would penalize the offense for coming up with an effort play on the offensive boards. A defensive possession isn't over until you secure the rebound.


Good offensive execution that leads to a points > getting offensive rebounds.

Great team defense that help melt the shot clock of the offensive team should be rewarded and not the one who played a poor offensive execution. Heck we're not even asking for a reward, we're just stating that the shot clock should have remained as is.


No matter where angle you look at it, that rule is pure bs in favor of the offensive team.

[dbugz]

Just to be clear, I'm not an OKC fan. I'm just discussing the rule alone and this has nothing to do with this Finals. :D

[ScarSymmetry]

Yea I know haha.. hindsights 20/20.

That one play where Lebron hit the 3 to put MIA up 3 and completely turn the momentum though? That was inexcusable by sefolosha.. James could barely run and was at the peak of his 'cramps' and there was sub 3 seconds on the shotclock and Sef let him completely dribble into a groove and pretty much shoot an open shot. Cant believe he didnt push the issue there especially knowing the shotclock situation.

I was thinking exactly this when that happened. :banghead:

[Mr Exlax]

I had no idea about the 5 second thingy. When did they start that?

[Hittin_Shots]

How are people making this about the offensive rebound? It was an airball, the offensive rebound had nothing to do with the rule. The rule which I think is stupid, would be the same if they dribbled it for 23.9 seconds and got a ball up, they'd be back to 5 seconds, and that doesn't seem fair.

[Jailblazers7]

If Harden rips away the rebound, then the rule doesn't come into effect. I see zero unfairness in the rule.

[dbugz]

If Harden rips away the rebound, then the rule doesn't come into effect. I see zero unfairness in the rule.


How about Haslem not getting his offensive rebound properly? Should we also penalize him? If a defensive team win that jump ball, should we also add 5 more seconds to their shot clock? so from 24 it would be 29 now? now that seems fair right?

Or

Let's change the rule base on your stupid logic. Let's always give additional 5 seconds to the offensive team's shot clock as a penalty on defensive team for not getting the defensive rebound properly. So instead of fresh 24, it'll be 29 also.

You are one fckn genius.

[Jailblazers7]

How about Haslem not getting his offensive rebound properly? Should we also penalize him? If a defensive team win that jump ball, should we also add 5 more seconds to their shot clock? so from 24 it would be 29 now? now that seems fair right?

Or

Let's change the rule base on your stupid logic. Let's always give additional 5 seconds to the offensive team's shot clock as a penalty on defensive team for not getting the defensive rebound properly. So instead of fresh 24, it'll be 29 also.

You are one fckn genius.

I don't know if you are joking or just stupid.

[dbugz]

I don't know if you are joking or just stupid.

Coming from someone whose logic doesn't even make sense? :oldlol:

Rewarding the offensive team an additional 5 seconds because the defensive team wasn't able to get the defensive rebound properly? Stupid as your logic is.



Not resetting the clock would penalize the offense for coming up with an effort play on the offensive boards.


Since when did the nba had this effort reward system ? why not also reward the defensive team for playing a good defense that melted the shot clock? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Jailblazers7]

I'd be fine with the reset because Harden got the rebound and had possession and was then tied up by Haslem. It would have been a different if Haslem grabbed the rebound and Harden had tied him up because the Thunder would have never been in possession of the ball.

[dbugz]

I'd be fine with the reset because Harden got the rebound and had possession and was then tied up by Haslem. It would have been a different if Haslem grabbed the rebound and Harden had tied him up because the Thunder would have never been in possession of the ball.

So you're saying now that the Thunder had already a ball possession on the ball and Haslem tied Harden up for a jump ball right?

On that situation Heat won that tip off, means a change again in ball possession, shot clock should have been reset back again to 24 secs (Westbrook thought it was that's why he foul Chalmers right away) and not 5 secs right? :oldlol: :oldlol:

Whether what reason you're going to put on that rule you can't deny that it has flaws and is a pure BS in favor of the offensive team.

[Salazaar]

Yes I knew, and so should know Westbrook, he's a fckin nba player :facepalm

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Not resetting the clock would penalize the offense for coming up with an effort play on the offensive boards. A defensive possession isn't over until you secure the rebound.I understand this, but it's not like the offensive team gets extra time on the clock if they get an offensive board on an air ball, the clock keeps going. So why should it be different if they only get half possession of the ball and it's a jump ball?

I agree that neither the offense nor defense deserved the ball more, that's why it's a jump ball, and the shot clock shouldn't be changed because neither team deserved an advantage. Just leave the clock the way it is.

And like it's been said before, if the thunder got the ball first, then the clock should be reset to 24 seconds.

[ILLsmak]

i could have sworn that i've seen the clock shot remain at where it was at the time the jump ball was called multiple times.

Me too, I know I have. I've seen people doing double pump shots upon catching the tip.

-Smak

[DuMa]

I never thought we had that rule. Very odd its in the book because I have never seen it been supplied before