Would Jordan have won with this Wade as his Pippen?

[Reverend Hoops]

Give Bron his props.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Would Lebron have won with a hobbled Pippen and mediocre Bulls cast in '98?

Quit the premature comparisons.

[Reverend Hoops]

Would Lebron have won with a hobbled Pippen and mediocre Bulls cast in '98?

Quit the premature comparisons.

Yes. He is now. :oldlol:

Wade is hurt.

[97 bulls]

Give Bron his props.
Wade finally got out of his way. But lets not act like thiis series has been all james and nothing else. Chalmer, Battier, Bosh, have made huge contributiiions. As well as wade

[CavaliersFTW]

two shooting guards? :facepalm

[Soundwave]

This version of Wade is still honestly probably a better scorer than Pippen ever was.

Pip wasn't great at creating his own shot and if his jumper wasn't falling then Jordan would have no choice but to carry the load (ie: the flu game).

And Bosh is far better offensively than any big Jordan ever played with.

Anyone who thinks this team:

C- Anthony/who cares
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- Jordan
PG- Wade

Couldn't win a title is delusional. They'd beat the Mavericks last year and probably sweep this Thunder squad with all the mistakes they keep making.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This version of Wade is still honestly probably a better scorer than Pippen ever was.

Pip wasn't great at creating his own shot and if his jumper wasn't falling then Jordan would have no choice but to carry the load (ie: the flu game).

And Bosh is far better offensively than any big Jordan ever played with.

Anyone who thinks this team:

C- Anthony
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- Jordan
PG- Wade

Couldn't win a title is delusional.

Exactly. And I'm a huge fan of Pippen's (who in all fairness was battling injuries in both '97 and 98).

[OldSchoolBBall]

Would Lebron have won with a hobbled Pippen and mediocre Bulls cast in '98?

Quit the premature comparisons.

Seriously.

Top 3 players by PER on the '12 Heat in the postseason after Lebron:

Wade - 21.9
Bosh - 18.5 (in 13 games)
Chalmers - 13.2

Top 3 by PER on the Bulls during the playoffs during several title seasons:

1992:

Pippen - 20.1
Grant - 16.3
Armstrong - 13.5

1993:

Grant - 17.0
Pippen - 16.9
Armstrong - 13.2

1996:

Pippen - 19.4
Harper - 14.8
Randy Brown -14.2

1997:

Pippen -18.1
Harper - 15.7
Kukoc - 14.6

1998:

Pippen -19.5
Kukoc -18.5
Burrell - 13.5

Jordan did just as much with just as little, and did so several times over.


This version of Wade is still honestly probably a better scorer than Pippen ever was.

Pip wasn't great at creating his own shot and if his jumper wasn't falling then Jordan would have no choice but to carry the load (ie: the flu game).

And Bosh is far better offensively than any big Jordan ever played with.

Anyone who thinks this team:

C- Anthony/who cares
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- Jordan
PG- Wade

Couldn't win a title is delusional. They'd beat the Mavericks last year and probably sweep this Thunder squad with all the mistakes they keep making.

This too.

[-p.tiddy-]

Jordan would have won with a midget as his Pippen

[LBJDW305]

Lebron has been playing GOAT basketball this postseason. Especially in the finals. I never liked lebron until he came to Miami but I just don't see how people can hate this guys game. Dude is doing everything from scoring to rebounds assists steals.

[97 bulls]

Seriously.

Top 3 players by PER on the '12 Heat in the postseason after Lebron:

Wade - 21.9
Bosh - 18.5 (in 13 games)
Chalmers - 13.2

Top 3 by PER on the Bulls during the playoffs during several title seasons:

1992:

Pippen - 20.1
Grant - 16.3
Armstrong - 13.5

1993:

Grant - 17.0
Pippen - 16.9
Armstrong - 13.2

1997:

Pippen -18.1
Harper - 15.7
Kukoc - 14.6

1998:

Pippen -19.5
Kukoc -18.5
Burrell - 13.5

Jordan did just as much with just as little, and did so several times over.



This too.
Just out of curiosity, does per include defense? Factor in running the offense? Or rebounding?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Just out of curiosity, does per include defense? Factor in running the offense? Or rebounding?

Is the OP?

[SilkkTheShocker]

No, because Jordan isn't as good as Lebron.

[97 bulls]

This version of Wade is still honestly probably a better scorer than Pippen ever was.

Pip wasn't great at creating his own shot and if his jumper wasn't falling then Jordan would have no choice but to carry the load (ie: the flu game).

And Bosh is far better offensively than any big Jordan ever played with.

Anyone who thinks this team:

C- Anthony/who cares
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- Jordan
PG- Wade

Couldn't win a title is delusional. They'd beat the Mavericks last year and probably sweep this Thunder squad with all the mistakes they keep making.
How many times have we had this kind of conversation and you go straight to scoring? Come on bro. Pippens role on the Bulls goes right past scoring.

[97 bulls]

Is the OP?
Im not asking you about the OP. Im asking about your post. Youre trying to center your argument around per.

[-p.tiddy-]

No, because Jordan isn't as good as Lebron.
yeah , and Shaq isn't as good as Shawn Bradley

[Soundwave]

How many times have we had this kind of conversation and you go straight to scoring? Come on bro. Pippens role on the Bulls goes right past scoring.

Yeah and?

The Bulls don't win the title in 97 or 98 if Jordan doesn't basically will it to happen.

All of Scottie's "all around" game doesn't change that.

The way the Bulls were built, if they were to win a title, Jordan basically had to carry the offence himself for long stretches if Scottie's jumper (which could be highly erratic) wasn't hitting.

Wade isn't as good defensively, but offensively he would give Jordan much more of a break. He could carry the load for a game or two if need be.

Swap Jordan with LeBron on this Heat team and right now they'd be playing for a repeat, having won it last year too.

[comerb]

And Bosh is far better offensively than any big Jordan ever played with.



To be fair Jordan had a lot deeper team offensively.

Kerr, Kukoc, Harper, and Longley all routinely scored in double digits. Hell, Harper was averaging 18 for the Clippers and was barely breaking 7 on the Bulls because they were that deep. Kukoc was putting up numbers just a bit shy of what Harden manages.

[SilkkTheShocker]

To be fair Jordan had a lot deeper team offensively.

Kerr, Kukoc, Harper, and Longley all routinely scored in double digits. Hell, Harper was averaging 18 for the Clippers and was barely breaking 7 on the Bulls because they were that deep.


Yea but didn't Harper also blow out his knee in LA?

[GOBB]

F*ck per, we dont need that silly stat to answer this thread. And yes MJ would have easily won with Wade as his Pippen. Might have got Wade to play defense. Only guy who ever challenged and called out Wade (face to face) about defense was Gary Payton. Ripped him good.

Stupid thread.

[Sarcastic]

Would Lebron have won with Jamaal Wilkes as his Pippen?

[GOBB]

Yea but didn't Harper also blow out his knee in LA?

His first season with LAC he did. But he still was scoring points for them. Wasnt the same, but his last season with LAC I think he dropped 20 a game. Went to Bulls and offense was the last thing he did.

[Soundwave]

To be fair Jordan had a lot deeper team offensively.

Kerr, Kukoc, Harper, and Longley all routinely scored in double digits. Hell, Harper was averaging 18 for the Clippers and was barely breaking 7 on the Bulls because they were that deep. Kukoc was putting up numbers just a bit shy of what Harden manages.

Bosh, Battier, Chalmers are better offensive depth.

The reason those Bulls players were effective is Chicago played a very high I.Q. basketball game allowing everyone to chip in now and again.

But Luc Longley ... lol. A scrub. Harper was a star early in his career but by the time he got to Chicago, offensively he was a shadow of his former self.

Kukoc could be great one game and completely invisible the next two games.

No one on the Bulls was really able to create their own shot off the dribble consistently except for Jordan.

[97 bulls]

Yeah and?

The Bulls don't win the title in 97 or 98 if Jordan doesn't basically will it to happen.

All of Scottie's "all around" game doesn't change that.

The way the Bulls were built, if they were to win a title, Jordan basically had to carry the offence himself for long stretches if Scottie's jumper (which could be highly erratic) wasn't hitting.

Wade isn't as good defensively, but offensively he would give Jordan much more of a break. He could carry the load for a game or two if need be.

Swap Jordan with LeBron on this Heat team and right now they'd be playing for a repeat, having won it last year too.
But his offense wasnt all that spectacular in 96 and they won in dominant fashion thanks in large part to Rodman and Longley. That totally blows your theory out of the water.

And lets not dismiss the role Rodmans defense played on Malone and Pippens defense on the Jazz as a whole.

The question was could jordan win with wade, not who the best scorers are.

[SilkkTheShocker]

His first season with LAC he did. But he still was scoring points for them. Wasnt the same, but his last season with LAC I think he dropped 20 a game. Went to Bulls and offense was the last thing he did.


:cheers:

[Soundwave]

But his offense wasnt all that spectacular in 96 and they won in dominant fashion thanks in large part to Rodman and Longley. That totally blows your theory out of the water.

And lets not dismiss the role Rodmans defense played on Malone and Pippens defense on the Jazz as a whole.

The question was could jordan win with wade, not who the best scorers are.

And the answer is yes. He would win with Wade. Easily. They'd have beat the Mavericks last year too.

Forget just Wade, Bosh honestly might be more offensively gifted than anyone Jordan played with as well, that's a guy who's 23-25 ppg player on his own team and can score from anywhere on the floor.

And then you still have Battier there and Jordan in the starting five ... defensively that's a pretty good group even just on the backs of those two guys.

Chalmers does a lot of the same things Kerr/Paxson did, but is far better at attacking the basket.

I also think Jordan would light a fire under Wade and Bosh's asses to be better defensively.

[97 bulls]

Bosh, Battier, Chalmers are better offensive depth.

The reason those Bulls players were effective is Chicago played a very high I.Q. basketball game allowing everyone to chip in now and again.

But Luc Longley ... lol. A scrub. Harper was a star early in his career but by the time he got to Chicago, offensively he was a shadow of his former self.

Kukoc could be great one game and completely invisible the next two games.

No one on the Bulls was really able to create their own shot off the dribble consistently except for Jordan.
But Bosh, Chalmers, Battier, hell even Wade have been consistant offensively?

And noone on the Bulls could get their own shot consistantly? Three championship as well as 72,69, and 62 wins say they scored enough.

[97 bulls]

And the answer is yes. He would win with Wade. Easily. They'd have beat the Mavericks last year too.

Forget just Wade, Bosh honestly might be more offensively gifted than anyone Jordan played with as well, that's a guy who's 23-25 ppg player on his own team and can score from anywhere on the floor.

And then you still have Battier there and Jordan in the starting five ... defensively that's a pretty good group even just on the backs of those two guys.

Chalmers does a lot of the same things Kerr/Paxson did, but is far better at attacking the basket.

I also think Jordan would light a fire under Wade and Bosh's asses to be better defensively.
Ok, how many players do the thunder have that can get their own shot ? Id even be willing to say they may have more firepower than the Bulls. Hows all that ffense working for them?

Its about winning. Not scoring.

[Soundwave]

But Bosh, Chalmers, Battier, hell even Wade have been consistant offensively?

And noone on the Bulls could get their own shot consistantly? Three championship as well as 72,69, and 62 wins say they scored enough.

Which one of the Bulls outside of Jordan could create their own shot off the dribble consistently?

That wasn't Pippen's game at all.

That's why Jordan had to score like 20 straight points at the end of game 6 in Phoenix before someone else (Paxson) finally did something.

That's why Jordan couldn't rest in the "flu game", because Pippen freaking couldn't carry Jordan for even one game even though he badly needed it.

Or finishing Utah in '98 when Scottie was hobbled.

Honestly Utah should have at least one title, basically Jordan single handedly denied it from happening.

Pippen's a great player and well deserving HOF, but if you're talking pure talent, Wade and even Bosh are right up there and probably superior in certain aspects.

The Bulls were never an All-Star team of talent. They just played well as a group and Jordan had the ability to lift the team on his own back during critical stretches to seal the deal for multiple titles. Their great defence would keep them in the game, and then Jordan would finish it.

[Calabis]

How many times have we had this kind of conversation and you go straight to scoring? Come on bro. Pippens role on the Bulls goes right past scoring.

Wade blocking shots in key moments, and playing damn good defense, please quit trying to make Pippen better than he actually was:rant

[97 bulls]

Which one of the Bulls outside of Jordan could create their own shot off the dribble consistently?

That wasn't Pippen's game at all.

That's why Jordan had to score like 20 straight points at the end of game 6 in Phoenix before someone else (Paxson) finally did something.

That's why Jordan couldn't rest in the "flu game", because Pippen freaking couldn't carry Jordan for even one game even though he badly needed it.

Or finishing Utah in '98 when Scottie was hobbled.

Honestly Utah should have at least one title, basically Jordan single handedly denied it from happening.

Pippen's a great player and well deserving HOF, but if you're talking pure talent, Wade and even Bosh are right up there and probably superior in certain aspects.

The Bulls were never an All-Star team of talent. They just played well as a group and Jordan had the ability to lift the team on his own back during critical stretches to seal the deal for multiple titles.
Lol regardless of what you think. The Bulls will have 3 hofers outside of Jordan. Pippen, Rodman, and Kukoc. And dont think for a minute that Kukoc doesnt reach a few allstar games if he hadnt spent his prime winning championships with the Bulls. Or that he wouldnt be regarded like Bosh was in Toronto.

To say or imply that Jordan carried the Bulls or better yet won with no help is assinine to say the least. Especially when we saw what they could do without Jordan in 94. We saw that they could win with Jordans offense failing him like it did in 96.

You have a template for how well the Bulls would do without Jordan and yet you dont want to admit it.

How well did Bosh do without his James?

Granted Wade did win a championship, but lets be honest, he was gifted that championship. And he had the best center in the league in shaq. Hell there werent many centers if any that Id take over Mourning. And he came off the bench. What has he done in his eigth years leading the Heat?

[Soundwave]

Lol regardless of what you think. The Bulls will have 3 hofers outside of Jordan. Pippen, Rodman, and Kukoc. And dont think for a minute that Kukoc doesnt reach a few allstar games if he hadnt spent his prime winning championships with the Bulls. Or that he wouldnt be regarded like Bosh was in Toronto.

To say or imply that Jordan carried the Bulls or better yet won with no help is assinine to say the least. Especially when we saw what they could do without Jordan in 94. We saw that they could win with Jordans offense failing him like it did in 96.

You have a template for how well the Bulls would do without Jordan and yet you dont want to admit it.

How well did Bosh do without his James?

Granted Wade did win a championship, but lets be honest, he was gifted that championship. And he had the best center in the league in shaq. Hell there werent many centers if any that Id take over Mourning. And he came off the bench. What has he done in his eigth years leading the Heat?

Jordan won the scoring title in '96. Just like every other year, lol. I'm pretty sure he scored just fine that season.

Chris Bosh is a better player than Toni Kukoc (sorry Toni).

Bosh is a legit 24-25 ppg/10 rpg player on any normal team in the NBA. He's far more offensively talented than any big Jordan ever played with.

And Wade is a better pure scorer than Scottie. I don't think you can deny that. He is simply more dangerous offensively period. Particularly in a half-court offensive set.

[97 bulls]

Wade blocking shots in key moments, and playing damn good defense, please quit trying to make Pippen better than he actually was:rant
Its no different than saying or acting as if Pippen didnt score. But youre a Jordanite so I expect nothing more from you.

[97 bulls]

Jordan won the scoring title in '96. Just like every other year, lol. I'm pretty sure he scored just fine that season.

Chris Bosh is a better player than Toni Kukoc (sorry Toni).

Bosh is a legit 24-25 ppg/10 rpg player on any normal team in the NBA. He's far more offensively talented than any big Jordan ever played with.

And Wade is a better pure scorer than Scottie. I don't think you can deny that. He is simply more dangerous offensively period. Particularly in a half-court offensive set.
And with what result. For all this scoring that you put such a premium on, Bosh led team went nowhere. In the one year Kukoc led the Bulls, with Brent Barry and an old Ron Harper as his wingmen, he did just as well as Bosh leading the Raptors.

And wade get nowhere near that championship with out arguably two of the top 10are centers in 06.

Dont kid yourself.

[BGriffin's Dad]

Jordan would've won this with Shannon Brown as his Pippen...

in 4 games

[Soundwave]

And with what result. For all this scoring that you put such a premium on, Bosh led team went nowhere. In the one year Kukoc led the Bulls, with Brent Barry and an old Ron Harper as his wingmen, he did just as well as Bosh leading the Raptors.

And wade get nowhere near that championship with out arguably two of the top 10are centers in 06.

Dont kid yourself.

Wade and Bosh are both top 15 players in the league too. Wade is top 5.

Both can create their own offence basically at will if they want to.

Don't kid yourself either.

Jordan with those two plus another good all-around role player/defensive stopper like Battier would win several titles together.

[DFish]

97 Bulls can't decide whose nuts he wants to ride harder; LeBron's or Jordan's.

[SilkkTheShocker]

97 Bulls can't decide whose nuts he wants to ride harder; LeBron's or Jordan's.

97 Bulls has been pretty critical of Lebron in the past. And he defends Pippen a ton.

[Calabis]

Its no different than saying or acting as if Pippen didnt score. But youre a Jordanite so I expect nothing more from you.

LMAO, Pippen is one of my favorite players, but you are on a mission to get this guy in the Top 10-15 players of all time...:no: he is what he is, a great compliment to the style MJ played....which formed a dynamic perimeter duo. He is not as deadly as Wade on offense, deal with it.

[97 bulls]

Wade and Bosh are both top 15 players in the league too. Wade is top 5.

Both can create their own offence basically at will if they want to.

Don't kid yourself either.

Jordan with those two plus another good all-around role player/defensive stopper like Battier would win several titles together.
This isnt saying much. Theres alot of great players that would win if they were in the same situation. Im not really arguing this opinion.

I take exception to the constant degrading of the Bulls in general outside of Jordan. As if he had to drag the Bulls year in and out.

[lilgodfather1]

Pippen is definately better overall than this Wade. Wade is better offensively (because you can't breathe on him), but Pippen would destroy Durant on defense.

Edit: can you guys imagine LeBron and Pippen on D? My god that would be a joy to watch. Chalmers-LeBron-Pippen-Battier would be the greatest perimiter defensive rotation in NBA history.

[pierce2008mvp]

Pippen shot 44% in the playoffs for his career. Pippen shot 39% in the 96 playoffs, Pippen shot 41% in the 97 and 98 playoffs

Wade is averaging 23/5/4 on 46% FG. This would be better production than Pippen provided.

Not to mention can Lebron win a title without playing with someone who got it done as the man already?

[Soundwave]

This isnt saying much. Theres alot of great players that would win if they were in the same situation. Im not really arguing this opinion.

I take exception to the constant degrading of the Bulls in general outside of Jordan. As if he had to drag the Bulls year in and out.

I'm not sure why you get that upset when people point out the Bulls weren't exactly an All-Star team.

They never were.

They were never like the Lakers or Celtics of the 80s in that respect.

Just a bunch of hardworking guys who knew their roles with some great athletic high end between Jordan and Pippen. A defence that would keep them in most games. And then if the game/series was close, Jordan would more often than not finish it.

But never was Jordan in a situation really like Magic or something where could look down the bench and legitimately say "you know this guy could score 20 tonight, and so could this guy, and that guy too".

That is revisionist as well.

The Bulls were basically the perfect role player team.

[97 bulls]

LMAO, Pippen is one of my favorite players, but you are on a mission to get this guy in the Top 10-15 players of all time...:no: he is what he is, a great compliment to the style MJ played....which formed a dynamic perimeter duo. He is not as deadly as Wade on offense, deal with it.
I cant argue with anything you just posted.

I just take the stance that if winning is what were interessted in, then i dont see much of a difference between wade/pippen or bosh/kukoc. And we havnt even brought up rodman.

I disgaree with the notion that comparing players is as easy as looking at who the better scorer is. Not offensive player mind you. Just scorer.

[97 bulls]

Pippen is definately better overall than this Wade. Wade is better offensively (because you can't breathe on him), but Pippen would destroy Durant on defense.

Edit: can you guys imagine LeBron and Pippen on D? My god that would be a joy to watch. Chalmers-LeBron-Pippen-Battier would be the greatest perimiter defensive rotation in NBA history.
Harper, Jordan, Pippen, Brown, and BueBrown. Were nothing to sneeze at.

[guy]

Granted Wade did win a championship, but lets be honest, he was gifted that championship. And he had the best center in the league in shaq.

Umm really? Do you not see how ironic of a statement this is?

[Soundwave]

I think even this team (no LeBron OR Wade)

C- Anthony
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- (prime) Jordan
PG- Chalmers

Could probably win a title, maybe even two+. Depends on if Jordan could whip Bosh into playing better defensively.

Battier with MJ would be a perfect fit, total MJ type of teammate, aside from the fact that he's a Duke guy.

[97 bulls]

Pippen shot 44% in the playoffs for his career. Pippen shot 39% in the 96 playoffs, Pippen shot 41% in the 97 and 98 playoffs

Wade is averaging 23/5/4 on 46% FG. This would be better production than Pippen provided.

Not to mention can Lebron win a title without playing with someone who got it done as the man already?
If wade is shooting 46% against a defense as poor as the Thunders, i wonder what hed do vs the 96 sonics, those Jazz teams, the Knicks, the Heat. When Pippen played vs defenses id consider similar to the Thunder like the suns, the lakers and blazers, he did just fine.

[97 bulls]

Umm really? Do you not see how ironic of a statement this is?
No i dont. Whats so ironic about it?

[Soundwave]

Pippen shot 44% in the playoffs for his career. Pippen shot 39% in the 96 playoffs, Pippen shot 41% in the 97 and 98 playoffs

Wade is averaging 23/5/4 on 46% FG. This would be better production than Pippen provided.

Not to mention can Lebron win a title without playing with someone who got it done as the man already?

I always kinda figured this, but holy sh*t those are atrociously bad shooting percentages, even worse when you consider Scottie almost never got double teamed and was never guarded by the oppositions best wing defender.

How many teams could win multiple titles with the no.2 option shooting basically 40% from the field for several of the title runs? That's insane.

There were precious few games in the Bulls playoff run where I'd shut the game off and say "jeez, Jordan was stinking it up tonight, thank goodness Scottie stepped up and took over".

Great playoff defender? No question. All around play? Very good.

But when the pressure was ramping up on the Bulls and the walls collapsing in around them, Superman always bailed them out.

[Dwade305]

LOL 97 bulls, SuperPippen well known Wade haters and have the nerve to argue Pippen>Dwade, Rodman>Love etc:roll: :roll:

[pierce2008mvp]

If wade is shooting 46% against a defense as poor as the Thunders, i wonder what hed do vs the 96 sonics, those Jazz teams, the Knicks, the Heat. When Pippen played vs defenses id consider similar to the Thunder like the suns, the lakers and blazers, he did just fine.
Yeah but Scottie shot 34% FG against the Sonics and who was defending him? At least Thabo half the time is defending Wade in the Thunder series.

[guy]

No i dont. Whats so ironic about it?

Well not totally ironic cause I just realized what you meant by the "gifted that championship" comment, which is another subject. But anyone can say: "Granted Pippen did win 6 championships, but lets be honest, he had the best player in the league in Jordan." Its just ironic coming from you when you are constantly blasting people that put Jordan and Pippen's championships and the credit they deserve for them into context, yet you just totally diminished Wade's title where he was clearly the best player cause he won with a way past his prime Shaq.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LOL 97 bulls, SuperPippen well known Wade haters and have the nerve to argue Pippen>Dwade, Rodman>Love etc:roll: :roll:

El pollo loco has some bomb tostadas. :applause:

[Soundwave]

Yeah but Scottie shot 34% FG against the Sonics and who was defending him? At least Thabo half the time is defending Wade in the Thunder series.

34%? You're kidding right? Holy f*ck :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

I think even this team (no LeBron OR Wade)

C- Anthony
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- (prime) Jordan
PG- Chalmers

Could probably win a title, maybe even two+. Depends on if Jordan could whip Bosh into playing better defensively.

Battier with MJ would be a perfect fit, total MJ type of teammate, aside from the fact that he's a Duke guy.
He had that type of team. Look at the 87 Bulls

Corzine......Anthony
Oakley...... Bosh
Banks....... Battier
Paxson.....Chalmers

That team won 40 games

[Bigsmoke]

two shooting guards? :facepalm

ummm...

MJ can play SF if he wants to.

[Soundwave]

He had that type of team. Look at the 87 Bulls

Corzine......Anthony
Oakley...... Bosh
Banks....... Battier
Paxson.....Chalmers

That team won 40 games

Bosh >>>> anyone on that Bulls team. Bosh is a legitimate All-Star and made US Olympics team.

Oakley's a tough guy, but that's about where that begins and ends.

I think Chalmers is better than Paxson too. I watch him and think he could probably be a 12-15 ppg guy on a different team.

I don't even remember Banks but I doubt he's better than Battier.

[Bigsmoke]

Pippen is definately better overall than this Wade. Wade is better offensively (because you can't breathe on him), but Pippen would destroy Durant on defense.

Edit: can you guys imagine LeBron and Pippen on D? My god that would be a joy to watch. Chalmers-LeBron-Pippen-Battier would be the greatest perimiter defensive rotation in NBA history.



u are ONE CRAZY Heat fan.

Pippen is my dude but... he aint ****ing with Wade.

[Bigsmoke]

I think even this team (no LeBron OR Wade)

C- Anthony
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- (prime) Jordan
PG- Chalmers

Could probably win a title, maybe even two+. Depends on if Jordan could whip Bosh into playing better defensively.

Battier with MJ would be a perfect fit, total MJ type of teammate, aside from the fact that he's a Duke guy.

switch Anthony with Okafor then i can see it.

MJ will have to average 9 or 10 rebounds a game to win if he had that roster.

[Soundwave]

switch Anthony with Okafor then i can see it.

MJ will have to average 9 or 10 rebounds a game to win if he had that roster.

Bosh can get on the glass if he chooses to focus on that. We're seeing that pretty clearly this series.

[97 bulls]

Well not totally ironic cause I just realized what you meant by the "gifted that championship" comment, which is another subject. But anyone can say: "Granted Pippen did win 6 championships, but lets be honest, he had the best player in the league in Jordan." Its just ironic coming from you when you are constantly blasting people that put Jordan and Pippen's championships and the credit they deserve for them into context, yet you just totally diminished Wade's title where he was clearly the best player cause he won with a way past his prime Shaq.
No. The point im trying to make is the only difference between Pippen and Wade from the standpoint of winning is people knock Pippen for not winning as the all important "man". Well shit if Pippen had what would be the equal of wade as far as talent hed have led a team to a championship too. I made a thread a few days ago which asked the question how many championships do the 00s pistons win with Pippen replacing Prince. Cuz Pippen would be the clear cut best player.

I try not te penalize players for their situations as long as they win

[Soundwave]

No. The point im trying to make is the only difference between Pippen and Wade from the standpoint of winning is people knock Pippen for not winning as the all important "man". Well shit if Pippen had what would be the equal of wade as far as talent hed have led a team to a championship too. I made a thread a few days ago which asked the question how many championships do the 00s pistons win with Pippen replacing Prince. Cuz Pippen would be the clear cut best player.

I try not te penalize players for their situations as long as they win

I honestly don't think Pippen wins in 06 just because he has (an aging) Shaq.

Wade still had to step up and create several huge plays offensively off the bounce to win that NBA Finals series.

I just don't think Scottie ever had that ability.

Shot clock is down to 6, half court offence (not transition ball), 2 defenders draped on you, your team is down 89-88 ... is Scottie hitting that shot?

IMO no. He wasn't *that* type of guy. If he was, the Blazers are the 2000 NBA Champions. By a landslide.

[Bigsmoke]

Bosh can get on the glass if he chooses to focus on that. We're seeing that pretty clearly this series.

you need MJ to average 8 or 9 rebounds a night to win.

simple as that

[97 bulls]

Bosh >>>> anyone on that Bulls team. Bosh is a legitimate All-Star and made US Olympics team.

Oakley's a tough guy, but that's about where that begins and ends.

I think Chalmers is better than Paxson too. I watch him and think he could probably be a 12-15 ppg guy on a different team.

I don't even remember Banks but I doubt he's better than Battier.
It goes back to a difference of opinion. Oakley is the better rebounder and defener by far.

This isnt even really worth arguing cuz no matter what i post youd just disagree for the hell of it. The fact is as far as talent. That team you listed is that much better if any that the heats. And they won 40 games. With Jordan.

Even if you feel Bosh and Chalmers are better than Oak and Pax, going from 40 wins to a possible two time champ? Thats a huge leap.

[97 bulls]

I honestly don't think Pippen wins in 06 just because he has (an aging) Shaq.

Wade still had to step up and create several huge plays offensively off the bounce to win that NBA Finals series.

I just don't think Scottie ever had that ability.

Shot clock is down to 6, half court offence (not transition ball), 2 defenders draped on you, your team is down 89-88 ... is Scottie hitting that shot?

IMO no. He wasn't *that* type of guy. If he was, the Blazers are the 2000 NBA Champions. By a landslide.
So you give wade a pass due to shaqs age but Pippens supposed to lead the blazers
at almost 35 years old?

And Pippen did hit that shot constantly vs the Blazers with double teams while Jordan was on the bench and the Bulls being down 15 in game dsx of the nba finals.

Even in that flu game. Go back and watch it. The jazz doubled Pippen alot. If anything. Wade played off of Shaq.

[97 bulls]

Pippen shot 44% in the playoffs for his career. Pippen shot 39% in the 96 playoffs, Pippen shot 41% in the 97 and 98 playoffs

Wade is averaging 23/5/4 on 46% FG. This would be better production than Pippen provided.

Not to mention can Lebron win a title without playing with someone who got it done as the man already?
Without looking, i know Pippen also led the playoffs in defensive win share three times, and defensive rating twice, and steal four times roughly.

[jrong]

No, because they play the same position.

[97 bulls]

Bosh can get on the glass if he chooses to focus on that. We're seeing that pretty clearly this series.
Hes getting so many rebounds cuz no one is boxing him out. He has Perkins guarding him on the perimeter and thus he has that huge quickness advantage that he uses to get to the rim. If they were to be down low, Im sure Perkins would eat him alive due to Perkins being stronger.

Honestly soundwave. Do you watch the games? Or just look at the box score

[dynasty1978]

Could Jordan have won with a 2nd option averaging 23, 5, and 4 (like Wade)? Yeah, quite easily.

[Calabis]

I cant argue with anything you just posted.

I just take the stance that if winning is what were interessted in, then i dont see much of a difference between wade/pippen or bosh/kukoc. And we havnt even brought up rodman.

I disgaree with the notion that comparing players is as easy as looking at who the better scorer is. Not offensive player mind you. Just scorer.

I think its safe to say Battier, James and Wade are not slouches defensively . I don't know how much more you can expect from these guys, without being able to handcheck and reroute guys. Wade has made several key blocks, James help defense has been good, Battier has frustrated Durant at times, by denying him the ball and making him work hard.

[97 bulls]

I think its safe to say Battier, James and Wade are not slouches defensively . I don't know how much more you can expect from these guys, without being able to handcheck and reroute guys. Wade has made several key blocks, James help defense has been good, Battier has frustrated Durant at times, by denying him the ball and making him work hard.
Im not knocking anyone. Im just irked at the constant way players are compared. Notice how im not compare Wades ability to score to Pippens. Wade is a better scorer than Pippen. But what you fail to realize is that that doesnt make Wade a better player. Just a better scorer.

Im not too interested in stats. Especially when the results dont defend those stats. Pippen never had a team built around his strengths and multiple years of trial and era to fine tune what he needed to do to win as the best player. Or the most talented team for that matter. Portland was but as i stated Pippen was old by then.

You want to compare players, look for how they did in similar situations. Compare wades 09 season to Pippens 95 season. And not just their scoring, everything. The record, roster, stats, awards, rankings, competition, etc.

Comapre Boshs seasons with the raptors to Kukocs one year with the Bulls in 99 as the teams best player. If Bosh is so much better then why did he do worse relative to their respective talent. You gonna tell me youd rather have brent barry, and an old (36) ron harper as your wing men over, morris peterson and charlie vilanueva, or jalen rose and mike james, or andre bargnani and jose calderon? Come on.

[comerb]

Bosh, Battier, Chalmers are better offensive depth.

The reason those Bulls players were effective is Chicago played a very high I.Q. basketball game allowing everyone to chip in now and again.



:rolleyes:

[unbreakable]

Pippen >> Wade now and forever

Even Battier has been more important to the Heat this year than Wade

[PJR]

Pippen >> Wade now and forever

Even Battier has been more important to the Heat this year than Wade

You're a moron. But you already know that.

[Soundwave]

Hes getting so many rebounds cuz no one is boxing him out. He has Perkins guarding him on the perimeter and thus he has that huge quickness advantage that he uses to get to the rim. If they were to be down low, Im sure Perkins would eat him alive due to Perkins being stronger.

Honestly soundwave. Do you watch the games? Or just look at the box score

I've watched Chris Bosh play about 100+ games for the Toronto Raptors.

Does that answer your question?

People who are "surprised" by Bosh's impact in the playoffs are the ones who don't actually watch basketball.

Jordan never needed a superstar big to play with. Someone who could grab 9-11 boards and night and finish at the rim off his feeds pretty much was good enough, but Bosh have an actual offensive game would take a lot of pressure off Jordan to have to score so much.

[aceman]

Just a bunch of hardworking guys who knew their roles with some great athletic high end between Jordan and Pippen. A defence that would keep them in most games. And then if the game/series was close, Jordan would more often than not finish it.



you just described the 1989 pistons.
bulls led the league in ppg in 1996.

[aceman]

I always kinda figured this, but holy sh*t those are atrociously bad shooting percentages, even worse when you consider Scottie almost never got double teamed and was never guarded by the oppositions best wing defender.

this is not true. go back watch matches

[aceman]

But never was Jordan in a situation really like Magic or something where could look down the bench and legitimately say "you know this guy could score 20 tonight, and so could this guy, and that guy too".



scottie, toni, luc longley averaged 11 ppg in 1998.

[97 bulls]

I've watched Chris Bosh play about 100+ games for the Toronto Raptors.

Does that answer your question?

People who are "surprised" by Bosh's impact in the playoffs are the ones who don't actually watch basketball.

Jordan never needed a superstar big to play with. Someone who could grab 9-11 boards and night and finish at the rim off his feeds pretty much was good enough, but Bosh have an actual offensive game would take a lot of pressure off Jordan to have to score so much.
But the flip side is that Boshes defense is nowhere near the level of either of the two PFs Jordan won with. And both Rodman and Grant were excellent offensive players. And perfect for Jordans skill set. Both were effective offensively in a different way from Bosh.

The problem is you fail at comparing players when you only go by who is better at putting the ball in the basket.

Even worse you just wont look at results when comparing players. Notice how you refuse to acknowledge that Bosh leading a team really faired no better than Kukoc leading the Bulls in 99. Especially when Kukoc had nowhere near the talent Bosh had.

Hell go back and look at the Pistons in 92. Rodman was the best player on that team. And they faired better than any of the teams Bosh led during his tenure with the Raptors.

Look at the results not just the scoring stats.

[97 bulls]

scottie, toni, luc longley averaged 11 ppg in 1998.
The Bulls had plenty of offensive firepower. If you were to take their stats and make them on line with the 80s teams, the stats would be higher.

[Ketchup]

Wade would be batman. We all know that.

[Duncan21formvp]

Pippen's PER during the Bulls years they won 22.0, 20.1, 16.9, 19.4, 18.1, 19.5 in the playoffs and 20.6, 21.5, 19.2, 21.0, 21.3, 20.4 in the Regular Season

Dwyane Wade's PER was 22.0 in the playoffs and 26.3 in the Regular Season

So Wade is a role player when he averaged 23/6/5/1/1 in the finals and 23/5/4 in the playoffs as a whole and had a 22 PER while in the season he had a 26.3 PER.

Damn what role player puts up a 26.3 PER for a season? Some of you guys are unbelievable with the **** you come up with. And as a note each year the Bulls won the title Pippen's PER was lower than what Wade was in the playoffs and definitely lower in the season.



Lebron has much more talent on his team than MJ ever had and more proven talent at that. No one on the Bulls was more proven than MJ when the Bulls first won titles. Lebron already has Wade who won as the man. So no matter how you slice it, Wade already got it done as the man and it will be seen that Lebron needed someone who could win as the man to win it all.
In Cleveland he even had proven winners on his team in Ben Wallace (led team to title) and Shaq (3x finals mvp and 1x league mvp).
Jordan never played with anyone that won league or finals mvp. Not only that but Wade, Lebron and Bosh were #1, #2 and #4 in PER the season before they joined forces together.

[Duncan21formvp]

Pippen never led a playoff team in Win shares either with or without MJ around.

Wade dominated playoffs as the man and won finals mvp, something Pippen could never do. Even Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Cedric Maxwell, Paul Pierce and James Worthy were able to get a finals mvp because they play bigger than Pippen when it matters most.

[OldSchoolBBall]

you need MJ to average 8 or 9 rebounds a night to win.

simple as that

And? He has shown that he's fully capable of that. Playoff series where MJ averaged > 8 reb/gm:

'97 vs. Hawks - 10.2 reb/gm
'92 vs. Heat - 9.7 reb/gm
'89 vs. Knicks - 9.5 reb/gm
'88 vs. Pistons - 8.8 reb/gm
'93 vs. Suns - 8.5 reb/gm
'97 vs. Heat - 8.0 reb/gm
'90 vs. Bucks - 8.0 reb/gm
'91 vs. Sixers - 8.0 reb/gm

Mind you, he would have averaged more in most of these series if he didn't have terrific rebounders on his team.

[swi7ch]

Hell, no!

Pip was never washed up in any of Jordan's teams unlike Wade.

[OldSchoolBBall]

But the flip side is that Boshes defense is nowhere near the level of either of the two PFs Jordan won with. And both Rodman and Grant were excellent offensive players.

Let's not get crazy by saying that Bosh's defense is so far off from Grant's defense. It's not, accolades notwithstanding. And lol @ calling Rodman and Grant "excellent offensive players" - what's Bosh then? The offensive GOAT?

And don't let Wade's down season muddle the argument '97 Bulls is making here - he felt Pippen was better than PEAK Wade too ('06-'09) and has said so many times. That's all you need to know about how ridiculous this dude is.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Hell, no!

Pip was never washed up in any of Jordan's teams unlike Wade.

Wade is pretty easily better than '98 Pippen.

[Calabis]

Give Bron his props.

Would Wade and Jordan both play the two guard?:facepalm

[Calabis]

Hell, no!

Pip was never washed up in any of Jordan's teams unlike Wade.

:roll:

Dude could barely move in 98 with a messed up back


Pippen missed 35 games that season, Jordan had them at 24-11

Go educate yourself, Jordan wrecking shop as a old man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGuiu88Bwbs

let me know when any of these so called heroes puts up a fourth quarter like Jordan did

[97 bulls]

Let's not get crazy by saying that Bosh's defense is so far off from Grant's defense. It's not, accolades notwithstanding. And lol @ calling Rodman and Grant "excellent offensive players" - what's Bosh then? The offensive GOAT?

And don't let Wade's down season muddle the argument '97 Bulls is making here - he felt Pippen was better than PEAK Wade too ('06-'09) and has said so many times. That's all you need to know about how ridiculous this dude is.
You do realize there more to offense than just scoring right? Rodmans bett
er at igniting the fast break, running the floor, and offensive rebounding. Bosh is the better scorer. Both are equal passers. And rodmans offensive IQ is higher.

Ive never backed off that Pippen/Wade statement. I do feel Pippen is better than Wade. Ive never been able to get a serious discussion about it. I assume you guys are scared off the truth.

Its funny how you like to come into Pippen threads, chime in with your little weak unsubstantiated pitiful claims, then when your called out on them, run like a little bitch.

[Sarcastic]

Wade is right up there top 10 all time in terms of starting the fast break. I might even put him in top 5 in this category.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAitQlC8Pzk

[97 bulls]

Wade is right up there top 10 all time in terms of starting the fast break. I might even put him in top 5 in this category.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAitQlC8Pzk
Im talking about bigs. Wade can complete a fast break on his own

[guy]

Even worse you just wont look at results when comparing players. Notice how you refuse to acknowledge that Bosh leading a team really faired no better than Kukoc leading the Bulls in 99. Especially when Kukoc had nowhere near the talent Bosh had.


What the hell are you talking about? Bosh actually led the Raptors to the playoffs a couple of times, and almost did again another time. The Bulls with Kukoc as their best player were the worst team in the league.

[LikeABosh]

You do realize there more to offense than just scoring right? Rodmans bett
er at igniting the fast break, running the floor, and offensive rebounding. Bosh is the better scorer. Both are equal passers. And rodmans offensive IQ is higher.

Ive never backed off that Pippen/Wade statement. I do feel Pippen is better than Wade. Ive never been able to get a serious discussion about it. I assume you guys are scared off the truth.

Its funny how you like to come into Pippen threads, chime in with your little weak unsubstantiated pitiful claims, then when your called out on them, run like a little bitch.

Argue me Pippen over Wade right now. At the end of the day you can say whatever you want but Wade's numbers are just that much better than Pippen's.

[97 bulls]

Argue me Pippen over Wade right now. At the end of the day you can say whatever you want but Wade's numbers are just that much better than Pippen's.
I can already see where this is going. Numbers? How bout this, the obvious question is who would be the better franchise player.

The best way to answer this is to compare the two based on how they faired in similar situations. Scottie Pippen did a much better job leading the Bulls in 95 than Wade did in 09. With less help.

[97 bulls]

What the hell are you talking about? Bosh actually led the Raptors to the playoffs a couple of times, and almost did again another time. The Bulls with Kukoc as their best player were the worst team in the league.
The teams Bosh led to the playoffs were much better than the team Kukoc had in 99. Like i said earlier, Id take any of the two players Bosh had along side him over an old (36) Ron Harper, and Brent Barry.

Now if were excluding situations then thats different. But unfair. No more fair than me saying Kukoc should be ranked higher due to his accomplishments overseas, his three nba titles, hi 6th man award etc.

[LikeABosh]

I can already see where this is going. Numbers? How bout this, the obvious question is who would be the better franchise player.

The best way to answer this is to compare the two based on how they faired in similar situations. Scottie Pippen did a much better job leading the Bulls in 95 than Wade did in 09. With less help.

Wade has a championship as the leader of his team.

[97 bulls]

Wade has a championship as the leader of his team.
Lol thats the best you can do? Most people feel that was a fluke. Wade hasnt done much leading teams since then. Hes done so bad that he by his own admission gave the Heat to Lebron James.

[LikeABosh]

I can already see where this is going. Numbers? How bout this, the obvious question is who would be the better franchise player.

The best way to answer this is to compare the two based on how they faired in similar situations. Scottie Pippen did a much better job leading the Bulls in 95 than Wade did in 09. With less help.

Pippen had Horace Grant scoring 16 and 11 rebounds. Bj Armstrong had a very solid season scoring 15 per game, He had Steve Kerr hitting threes, Kukoc and Phil Jackson as coach. Wade had who? Rookie Michael Beasely? over the hill Jermaine Oneal? Wade's best player was Haslem coming off the bench scoring 9 a game and 8 rebounds. His coach was also rookie Erik Spoelstra

[PJR]

I can already see where this is going. Numbers? How bout this, the obvious question is who would be the better franchise player.

The best way to answer this is to compare the two based on how they faired in similar situations. Scottie Pippen did a much better job leading the Bulls in 95 than Wade did in 09. With less help.

Um no.

I'll take Ho grant, BJ armstrong, with
Kukoc, and Steve Kerr off the bench

Over

rookie Chamlers and Beasley (Defensive liability, bust). Haslem and Broken down jermaine o'neal, Jamario friggin Moon etc...


Wade's team was trash.

[LikeABosh]

Lol thats the best you can do? Most people feel that was a fluke. Wade hasnt done much leading teams since then. Hes done so bad that he by his own admission gave the Heat to Lebron James.

So you're just gonna dismiss Wade leading his team to the championship as "just a fluke"?? Congrats on Pippen leading his team all the way to the second round! wow!

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Jordan would have won with a malignant tumor as his Pippen.

[Mach_3]

Lol thats the best you can do? Most people feel that was a fluke. Wade hasnt done much leading teams since then. Hes done so bad that he by his own admission gave the Heat to Lebron James.
Did u really just say this? Wade leading his team to a ring was more impressive than ANYTHING pippen has done in his career, period.

Id really love to hear your argument for pippen being better than wade also if you wouldnt mind

[97 bulls]

Pippen had Horace Grant scoring 16 and 11 rebounds. Bj Armstrong had a very solid season scoring 15 per game, He had Steve Kerr hitting threes, Kukoc and Phil Jackson as coach. Wade had who? Rookie Michael Beasely? over the hill Jermaine Oneal? Wade's best player was Haslem coming off the bench scoring 9 a game and 8 rebounds. His coach was also rookie Erik Spoelstra
I stated 95 for comaprison sake. I agree the 94 squad was much better than the 09 Heat.

I case you dont know, Pippen had the Bulls 34-30 befoe Jordan came back. He led his team in every major category, and was their best defender, ran the offense, and controlled the pain t from the perimeter. In a much more competitive conference when compared to how the East was in 09. Put that 09the Heat team in the same conference Pippens and the Bulls played in in 95, and they struggle to win 30 games.

[97 bulls]

Did u really just say this? Wade leading his team to a ring was more impressive than ANYTHING pippen has done in his career, period.

Id really love to hear your argument for pippen being better than wade also if you wouldnt mind
Id bet if you were to ask Wade would he trade that one championship run for Pippens six, hed readily make that trade.

Let me make sure we get this straight. Were comparing them as players and their careers in the NBA. Not a series. And a flukey one at that. Hes never come close to duplicaating that throughout his career. Thats what I mean by fluke

[97 bulls]

Jordan would have won with a malignant tumor as his Pippen.
Jordan Had Orlando Woolridge and Charles Oakley as his wingmen and didnt win a championship.

[guy]

Id bet if you were to ask Wade would he trade that one championship run for Pippens six, hed readily make that trade.

Let me make sure we get this straight. Were comparing them as players and their careers in the NBA. Not a series. And a flukey one at that. Hes never come close to duplicaating that throughout his career. Thats what I mean by fluke

I think you should rephrase that to say "I'd bet if you were to ask Wade would he trade the teams he's had to play with for 9 seasons to play 9 seasons with Michael Jordan, he'd readily make that trade".

And this "fluke" talk about Wade is hilariously hypocritical on your part given how much some people discredit Pippen's 94 season as just that. What the hell is a fluke anyway? Does a fluke erase him having a dominant season and playoff run? And career in general?

[Ketchup]

I stated 95 for comaprison sake. I agree the 94 squad was much better than the 09 Heat.

I case you dont know, Pippen had the Bulls 34-30 befoe Jordan came back. He led his team in every major category, and was their best defender, ran the offense, and controlled the pain t from the perimeter. In a much more competitive conference when compared to how the East was in 09. Put that 09the Heat team in the same conference Pippens and the Bulls played in in 95, and they struggle to win 30 games.

That is all circumstantial and hypothetical.

Wade>Pippen. You're an idiot if you even think it's close as individual players. As for Wade having a fluke series, and not repeating it... Are you serious? Did you watch him against the Pistons? 26ppg on 62% shooting. Name me another player that's shot over 60% in a series while putting up that many points.

Pippen went missing in big games, Wade historically has stepped up in the biggest games.

Fluke series? For crying out loud, he had one of the best losing finals series we've ever seen outside of Jerry West. He put up 27ppg on 55% shooting or something...

[97 bulls]

I think you should rephrase that to say "I'd bet if you were to ask Wade would he trade the teams he's had to play with for 9 seasons to play 9 seasons with Michael Jordan, he'd readily make that trade".

And this "fluke" talk about Wade is hilariously hypocritical on your part given how much some people discredit Pippen's 94 season as just that. What the hell is a fluke anyway? Does a fluke erase him having a dominant season and playoff run? And career in general?
Id say Pippens 94 season would've been a fluke had he not have been able to follow it up with what he did in 95.

[guy]

Id say Pippens 94 season would've been a fluke had he not have been able to follow it up with what he did in 95.

You are acting like Wade has never had a great season outside of 06. In fact, 06 wasn't even him at his best.

[97 bulls]

That is all circumstantial and hypothetical.

Wade>Pippen. You're an idiot if you even think it's close as individual players. As for Wade having a fluke series, and not repeating it... Are you serious? Did you watch him against the Pistons? 26ppg on 62% shooting. Name me another player that's shot over 60% in a series while putting up that many points.

Pippen went missing in big games, Wade historically has stepped up in the biggest games.

Fluke series? For crying out loud, he had one of the best losing finals series we've ever seen outside of Jerry West. He put up 27ppg on 55% shooting or something...
Lol wade has gone missing in big games too. How bout in 08the vs the Bulls when Kirk Hinrich shut him down. He was being called the Wade stopper. And the wade led Heat lost to the lower seeded Bulls. He also was garbage vs the Bulls last year. And the Pacers this year. Even this year vs the thunder. I think he shot 46%? That not very good for a player thats makes a living at the rim.

How many times has Wade led a team past the first round?

Dont get me wrong, Wade is a great player but so is Pippen. Hes come close to avg a triiple double in a few of his finals.

Regardless. Lets compare their primes as a whole. Not just a few series.

[97 bulls]

You are acting like Wade has never had a great season outside of 06. In fact, 06 wasn't even him at his best.
Im not bring up 06. Wade supporters are. 06 was one finals. Hell three games if i remember correct.

I wanted to compare their impact when put in similar situations. Which would be 95 for Pippen and 09 for Wade

Notice how i cant get a rebutal for those two seasons

[guy]

Im not bring up 06. Wade supporters are. 06 was one finals. Hell three games if i remember correct.

I wanted to compare their impact when put in similar situations. Which would be 95 for Pippen and 09 for Wade

Notice how i cant get a rebutal for those two seasons

Wade's team went 43-39 in 09 and 47-35 in 10. Pippen's team went 34-31 in 95 before Jordan came back. Whats your point?

And by the way, Pippen in 95 was not in a similar situation as he was in 94. So according to your logic, that if a player didn't do something twice in the same situation then its like a fluke which is what you've applied to Wade's 06 championship, both of Pippen's success in each of those seasons were flukes. Isn't that right according to your logic?

[97 bulls]

Wade's team went 43-39 in 09 and 47-35 in 10. Pippen's team went 34-31 in 95 before Jordan came back. Whats your point?

And by the way, Pippen in 95 was not in a similar situation as he was in 94. So according to your logic, that if a player didn't do something twice in the same situation then its like a fluke which is what you've applied to Wade's 06 championship, both of Pippen's success in each of those seasons were flukes. Isn't that right according to your logic?
It similar in that both of those Bulls teams overachieved.

I wouldnt say either of those Heat teams overachieved especially when you factor in how bad the conference was or is. That 47 win Heat team was pretty solid.

[guy]

It similar in that both of those Bulls teams overachieved.

I wouldnt say either of those Heat teams overachieved especially when you factor in how bad the conference was or is. That 47 win Heat team was pretty solid.

Those teams were complete trash. There was nothing good about those teams except for Wade, not to mention they were coached by a young inexperienced rookie coach. And you are really overrating the difference in conferences.

[97 bulls]

Those teams were complete trash. There was nothing good about those teams except for Wade, not to mention they were coached by a young inexperienced rookie coach. And you are really overrating the difference in conferences.
They werent trash. The Heat werent great aside from Wade, but Beasley, Oneal, Haslem, Richardson, is not bad. Especially compared to Kukoc (who by his own admission had a hard time communicating on the court and was playing out of position), Armstrong, Myers, and Perdue.

And the Bulls were 34-30. Pippen missed one of those losses.

[aceman]

Wade is pretty easily better than '98 Pippen.

pippen's one man wrecking crew defence surpasses anything wade did this year

[aceman]

I've watched Chris Bosh play about 100+ games for the Toronto Raptors.

Does that answer your question?

People who are "surprised" by Bosh's impact in the playoffs are the ones who don't actually watch basketball.

Jordan never needed a superstar big to play with. Someone who could grab 9-11 boards and night and finish at the rim off his feeds pretty much was good enough, but Bosh have an actual offensive game would take a lot of pressure off Jordan to have to score so much.

jordan had pippen & toni. he just didn't like to pass the ball too much.

[aceman]

I think even this team (no LeBron OR Wade)

C- Anthony
PF- Bosh
SF- Battier
SG- (prime) Jordan
PG- Chalmers

Could probably win a title, maybe even two+. Depends on if Jordan could whip Bosh into playing better defensively.

Battier with MJ would be a perfect fit, total MJ type of teammate, aside from the fact that he's a Duke guy.

so now jordan would've won without frontcourt defence & rebounding? whatever

[The Iron Fist]

You are acting like Wade has never had a great season outside of 06. In fact, 06 wasn't even him at his best.
15 wins.

All that has to be said. Save your injured excuse. He played the majority of the season.

[RaininTwos]

No, because Jordan isn't as good as Lebron.
*searches for white text*

*printing out*

*brb searching for text with black light*

[I LUV KOBE]

Replace Lebrick with Jordon and they have 2peat by now..

[PJR]

15 wins.

All that has to be said. Save your injured excuse. He played the majority of the season.

What the hell is even your point? Miami also clearly tanked that season to win the lottery.

Kobrick lead the Lakers to 28 wins in 2004-05. Bet you won't acknowledge that. :confusedshrug:

[Hank]

Just have Wade at the point. Right from the start of his career:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKej92KcQs

and


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcmgy89_DNs

^^ Dominant polished all-around game right when he entered the league. We have not witnessed a guard coming into the league with such a polished all-around game right away since Jordan (scoring, massive variety of moves to get to the rim, using both hands seamlessly, strength/power, explosiveness, touch, balance, body control, vision, timing, EFFICIENCY, offensive arsenal, great passing, fantastic rebounder, amazing defense, ability to steal, shot blocks like a center, etc etc)

.

[LikeABosh]

15 wins.

All that has to be said. Save your injured excuse. He played the majority of the season.
First of all, he missed over 30 games. He didn't play the "majority of the season", and he was clearly injured all season yet still put up very good numbers when he did play. The Heat went into tank mode that season and Wade was hurt all year.

[PickernRoller]

Yes, prob 3 rings, a repeat but no 3-peat and certainly not 6.

[Ikill]

They werent trash. The Heat werent great aside from Wade, but Beasley, Oneal, Haslem, Richardson, is not bad. Especially compared to Kukoc (who by his own admission had a hard time communicating on the court and was playing out of position), Armstrong, Myers, and Perdue.

And the Bulls were 34-30. Pippen missed one of those losses.
Those teams were trash other than Haslem no one on that team was starting caliber. I doubt that team wins 15 games without Wade there pretty much as bad as the bobcats.

[Ikill]

15 wins.

All that has to be said. Save your injured excuse. He played the majority of the season.
he could barely dunk your telling me he wasnt playing with injuries most said he was done

[97 bulls]

Those teams were trash other than Haslem no one on that team was starting caliber. I doubt that team wins 15 games without Wade there pretty much as bad as the bobcats.
Jermaine Oneal was better than Luc Longley or Will Perdue. Haslem was better than any PF the Bulls had. The Bulls PFs were so Bad that they had to put Kukoc at the four. They had Shawn Marion half the season. Id take Quentin Richardson over Pete Myers.

Even if you feel the Hest were trash. They were much better than the team the Bulls had in 95.

[The Iron Fist]

What the hell is even your point? Miami also clearly tanked that season to win the lottery.

Kobrick lead the Lakers to 28 wins in 2004-05. Bet you won't acknowledge that. :confusedshrug:
34 wins. Over twice as many as 15. 15 is just terrible no matter how you slice it.

[The Iron Fist]

First of all, he missed over 30 games. He didn't play the "majority of the season", and he was clearly injured all season yet still put up very good numbers when he did play. The Heat went into tank mode that season and Wade was hurt all year.
He played in51 games. Plenty enough to win more than 15.

[PJR]

34 wins. Over twice as many as 15. 15 is just terrible no matter how you slice it.

Uh no, moron. 28 wins.

Kobrick played in 66 games. 28-38 in the games he played.

Terrible. And he had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler as teammates.
Full training camp with them too. Far better team than Wade had...:no:

[pauk]

Would Lebron have won with a hobbled Pippen and mediocre Bulls cast in '98?

Quit the premature comparisons.

Haha, are you kidding me? That team was much better than even this team Lebron won the championship with. Jordans supporting cast outproduced Lebrons supporting cast in playoffs by +5.5 PPG, +7.1 RPG, +5.7 APG, +2.0 SPG, +1.8 BPG..... that team was more deep, more experienced and had a much better coach.

I absolutely love Jordan, but you would be overrating Jordan and underrating Lebron if you think 96 or 97 or 98 Jordan championship runs > 12 Lebron championship run.

Now...

Would Jordan at the age of 21 got to the Finals with his 2nd most productive player in playoffs being Boobie Gibson?

[Da_Realist]

Haha, are you kidding me? That team was much better than even this team Lebron won the championship with.

Now...

Would Jordan have got to the Finals with his 2nd best player being Boobie Gibson?

Would Lebron have beaten the 80's Pistons or Celtics to get to the Finals with his 2nd best player being Boobie Gibson?

[Da_Realist]

Haha, are you kidding me? That team was much better than even this team Lebron won the championship with. Jordans supporting cast outproduced Lebrons supporting cast in playoffs by +5.5 PPG, +7.1 RPG, +5.7 APG, +2.0 SPG, +1.8 BPG..... that team was more deep, more experienced and had a much better coach.

The opposition was also better. MJ's teams lost to the 85 Bucks his rookie year and then lost to the 80's Pistons and 80's Celtics before winning the title. Lebron's Cavs weren't going to beat those teams. Especially if he played during those times before the rule changes.

[OldSchoolBBall]

pippen's one man wrecking crew defence surpasses anything wade did this year

Nice try, but no. They're equal at best.

[Alisse]

The question should be "would jordan have won with Erik Spoelstra as his Phil Jackson?" :lol

[swi7ch]

This year's Wade? No.

Pip wasn't this washed up in their last winning team.

[Da_Realist]

The question should be "would jordan have won with Erik Spoelstra as his Phil Jackson?" :lol

Now we're talking about coaches. Ok, Phil Jackson was MJ's coach...but he had to play against Chuck Daly (4 times) and Pat Riley (4 times) to even make it to the Finals. He had to beat Larry Bird's Pacers in 98 (but they were really coached by Rick Carlisle -- the guy Lebron's team lost to in 2011). Other notables include Lenny Wilkins, Mike Fratello, Rick Adelman, George Karl, Jeff Van Gundy and Jerry Sloan. None of those guys were slouches.

[OldSchoolBBall]

This year's Wade? No.

Pip wasn't this washed up in their last winning team.

That's a joke, right? Playoff stats:

'98 Pippen: 16.8 pts/7.1 reb/5.2 ast/41.5% FG/50.0% TS

'12 Wade: 22.8 pts/5.2 reb/4.3 ast/46.2% FG/52.6% TS

And no, Pippen's defense doesn't make up that gap in production (roughly +8-9 ppg when you factor in efficiency; and it's not like Wade isn't a great defender himself). As I said, they're equal at best, edge to Wade if anything.

[97 bulls]

That's a joke, right? Playoff stats:

'98 Pippen: 16.8 pts/7.1 reb/5.2 ast/41.5% FG/50.0% TS

'12 Wade: 22.8 pts/5.2 reb/4.3 ast/46.2% FG/52.6% TS

And no, Pippen's defense doesn't make up that gap in production (roughly +8-9 ppg when you factor in efficiency; and it's not like Wade isn't a great defender himself). As I said, they're equal at best, edge to Wade if anything.
What if they switched competition? Do you remember how many key defenders were hurt during the Heats run? Avery Bradly and Jermaine Oneal? Iman Shummpert. Defensively, wouldnt you say the teams the Bulls went through in 98 were much better defensively?

[OldSchoolBBall]

What if they switched competition? Do you remember how many key defenders were hurt during the Heats run? Avery Bradly and Jermaine Oneal? Iman Shummpert. Defensively, wouldnt you say the teams the Bulls went through in 98 were much better defensively?

:rolleyes:

Right on cue...

[aceman]

pippen focused on defense in 1998 & played a great role in series wins over the pacers & utah.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-06-09/sports/1998160010_1_scottie-pippen-chicago-bulls-nba

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-08/sports/9806080106_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-john-stockton

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-05-18/sports/1998138106_1_pippen-michael-jordan-jackson

[gengiskhan]

Give Bron his props.

In '80s decade. Jordan would not have won

In '90s decade. Jordan would not have won.

In '00 decade. '80s era bulls of Michael + Jordanaires would have won 2 rings & not be stuck at ECF running into Pistons 3 yrs in a row. 1-2 rings easily. '00 era was clearly weak.

in '10 era. Jordan would've won 1-2 rings by himself. Wade is not needed. He is more of a ballhog with weak handles than anything else.

[willds09]

This iz stupid:wtf: they both SG:sleeping