I understand his impact and greatness,

[RaininTwos]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.

[Jameerthefear]

How come he ONLY has six titles... what?

[TheAnchorman]

He has been defeated, arguably during his athletic prime (89 and 90). That should say something about how important Pippen, Rodman, PJ and Grant, etc. were. So yes he isn't a Greek god like some people make him out to be. But he's still the GOAT imo.

[RaininTwos]

How come he ONLY has six titles... what?

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.


Re-read

[AngelEyes]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.

Sounds like the ramblings of a 12 year old who's been watching the game for a year.

[RaininTwos]

Sounds like the ramblings of a 12 year old who's been watching the game for a year.
Surprisingly accurate.

[LAClipsFan33]

You obviously never saw him in his prime. I watched live during the time of both 3 peats. Jordan was so amazing you didn't tune into the NBA to see who would win, but how Jordan would win it this time. He was that good.

WGN...

[LBJMVP]

get the f*ck outta here kid.

[RaininTwos]

I can see where this thread is heading. :oldlol:

ISH fails once again. Overrated isn't an insult. The Beatles are overrated in some circles as well, that doesnt mean they aren't great.

[alwaysunny]

Sometimes I think MJ is part of the illuminati. I'm wearing Jordan bball shorts and I didn't even realize it until now. Them jumpman logo is around me all the time. You feel me?

[inclinerator]

he's unbelievable did u see the stats 3 titles 3 mvp 7 scoring title at age 30 retired came back and won 3 more

[RazorBaLade]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.

I see your point but at the end of the day perception rules all. Every bad game that dude had ended with a game winner. He won championships on game winning shots. When he lost he had the great individual performances. He never lost a finals series. Every single win had a memorable moment. Flu game, the shot, etc. So many moments to remember. He left for 2 years came back and 3 peated again. He just had the perfect career.

Yes people can stand up to him for a while, but no one can give off the perception that jordan did after a career. At least not yet. Kobe was close to getting there but wasnt good enough.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.


I bet $100 u have never watched that mutha fcuka play live? Have u?

[AngelEyes]

I can see where this thread is heading. :oldlol:

ISH fails once again. Overrated isn't an insult. The Beatles are overrated in some circles as well, that doesnt mean they aren't great.

There's nothing overrated about the Beatles. If you understand them and their impact then you'll know that's not the case.

[ThePointGuard11]

He's thee most complete basketball player that I have ever seen. If LeBron continues improving he will surpass MJ as an all-around player because of his assist and rebound number, BUT as of right now MJ is the best all-around basketball player that I have ever seen.

[TheAnchorman]

The real negative impact that Jordan had on the league was the media shitstorrm from 1993 onwards, that kept trying to figure out who the next Jordan was and labeling every young kid that came out of HS/college the "next Jordan", and also that these kids were trying to emulate MJ's style of flashy dunking, acrobatic drives, etc. without really sticking to the fundamentals. This is not MJ's fault though.

[PickernRoller]

Does Bron and OP have something in common? Yes.

Thread dismissed.

[Fiasco]

Did I just read "only" Six?

LMAO

[RaininTwos]

Does Bron and OP have something in common? Yes.

Thread dismissed.
This has nothing to with Lebron.

[Legends66NBA7]

He's underrated in more circles than overrated in some circles.

[AngelEyes]

He's underrated in more circles than overrated in some circles.

Good point

[PickernRoller]

This has nothing to with Lebron.

Everything a Bron fan says MJ related has everything to do with Bron. If you didn't read "LBJ Dick Riding 101, a way to love Lebron", by author NumberSix then you should ask Pauk for a copy, he's been handing them out for free lately.

[RaininTwos]

Everything a Bron fan says MJ related has everything to do with Bron. If you didn't read "LBJ Dick Riding 101, a way to love Lebron", by author NumberSix then you should ask Pauk for a copy, he's been handing them out for free lately.
Dude wtf are you even talking about?

[Da_Realist]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.

It wouldn't bother you so much if most of the hype wasn't true.

He wasn't God, but he was good enough in enough areas that his name frequently comes up in comparisons. Speed? Drexler said MJ had the quickest feet he's ever seen. Strength? Robert Horry said he was the strongest guard in the league. Fundamentals? As sound as anyone who's ever played. Skills? All time level. Competitiveness? One of the fiercest. IQ? One of the smartest. Hops? One of the best. Hangtime? Ditto. Clutch? One of the absolute best. Playoff performer? May be the best.

Best scoring guard (non-center) in NBA History.
One of the most efficient.
One of the best shotblocking guards.
One of the best ball thieves in history.
One of the best perimeter defenders.
Dominated the league for 13 seasons.
Spearheaded two different back-to-back-to-back champions.
Et cetera...

In most categories, his name will come up. Legitimately. And that's what's really bothering you.

[bukowski81]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.

You must not saw him play live, he wasnt challenged, after his first title he won every season he played with the bulls, you knew before the season started that the Bulls would win, everybody knew it. He would have 8 titles if he didnt retire after the first 3 peat.

[AngelEyes]

It wouldn't bother you so much if most of the hype wasn't true.

He wasn't God, but he was good enough in enough areas that his name frequently comes up in comparisons. Speed? Drexler said MJ had the quickest feet he's ever seen. Strength? Robert Horry said he was the strongest guard in the league. Fundamentals? As sound as anyone who's ever played. Skills? All time level. Competitiveness? One of the fiercest. IQ? One of the smartest. Hops? One of the best. Hangtime? Ditto. Clutch? One of the absolute best. Playoff performer? May be the best.

Best scoring guard (non-center) in NBA History.
One of the most efficient.
One of the best shotblocking guards.
One of the best ball thieves in history.
One of the best perimeter defenders.
Dominated the league for 13 seasons.
Spearheaded two different back-to-back-to-back champions.
Et cetera...

In most categories, his name will come up. Legitimately. And that's what's really bothering you.

:applause:

[RaininTwos]

:applause:
Agreeing with a stan, no surprise

[Legends66NBA7]

Agreeing with a stan, no surprise

Those were just facts though, dude, nothing more.

He even said Jordan wasn't God.

[AngelEyes]

Agreeing with a stan, no surprise

I don't know his reputation, nor am I childish enough to use words such as "stan" but he made some valid, legitimate points which easily offset your rambling, incoherent statements which don't appear to be well thought out.

[RaininTwos]

Those were just facts though, dude, nothing more.

He even said Jordan wasn't God.

Then he contradicts himself by painting the picture of MJ being a perfect basketball player.

"Clyde Drexler said...":facepalm

[ImmortalNemesis]

Then he contradicts himself by painting the picture of MJ being a perfect basketball player.

"Clyde Drexler said...":facepalm

Other than MJ having the quickest feet and being the strongest guard, everything about that post is true. Is it not?

[AngelEyes]

Then he contradicts himself by painting the picture of MJ being a perfect basketball player.

"Clyde Drexler said...":facepalm

He's perhaps the most respected basketball player who has ever lived, if you go back and do your research you can easily find coaches, prominent broadcasters, reporters, etc. in books, articles, magazines praising Jordan in these ways. You can probably find similar statements made about a handful of players who have ever played. It's not necessarily hyperbole but the respect he's garnered from the people who have observed his career. It may seem unbelievable but he's without a doubt one of the most transcendent figures in this history of sports.

[RaininTwos]

I don't know his reputation, nor am I childish enough to use words such as "stan" but he made some valid, legitimate points which easily offset your rambling, incoherent statements which don't appear to be well thought out.

Create an original thought and get back to me.

[RaininTwos]

He's perhaps the most respected basketball player who has ever lived, if you go back and do your research you can easily find coaches, prominent broadcasters, reporters, etc. in books, articles, magazines praising Jordan in these ways. You can probably find similar statements made about a handful of players who have ever played. It's not necessarily hyperbole but the respect he's garnered from the people who have observed his career. It may seem unbelievable but he's without a doubt one of the most transcendent figures in this history of sports.

You do realize that I know this right? You also realize that my "incoherent rambling" never said he wasn't one of the greatest or not transcendent. Jesus Christ.

[RaininTwos]

Other than MJ having the quickest feet and being the strongest guard, everything about that post is true. Is it not?
Of course it is.

Relevance?

[AngelEyes]

Create an original thought and get back to me.

My thoughts aren't original enough for you, I'm sorry for that, but we'll always have your brilliant thoughts, such as: "how come he only has six titles?" Oh, how could we forget that thought provoking remark.

[Legends66NBA7]

Then he contradicts himself by painting the picture of MJ being a perfect basketball player.

"Clyde Drexler said...":facepalm

What did he say that was false, though ?

You should probably take that up with Drexler and Horry if their painting a picture of Jordan being a perfect basketball player. It's their opinions on it, which is the only parts that you can criticize because of personal bias, but then again who am I to say otherwise when they played against the man.

Infact Drexler guarded Jordan a lot of times when they matched up, so when he says he's got the quickest (okay, maybe he doesn't have the quickest, but it's up there) feet... it's got mean something, right ?

[RaininTwos]

My thoughts aren't original enough for you, I'm sorry for that, but we'll always have your brilliant thoughts, such as: "how come he only has six titles?" Oh, how could we forget that thought provoking remark.

Nice job of misquoting me...

[RaininTwos]

What did he say that was false, though ?

You should probably take that up with Drexler and Horry if their painting a picture of Jordan being a perfect basketball player. It's their opinions on it, which is the only parts that you can criticize because of personal bias, but then again who am I to say otherwise when they played against the man.

Infact Drexler guarded Jordan a lot of times when they matched up, so when he says he's got the quickest (okay, maybe he doesn't have the quickest, but it's up there) feet... it's got mean something, right ?

You can find that kind of quote for so many players. It means very little.

[Da_Realist]

Then he contradicts himself by painting the picture of MJ being a perfect basketball player.

"Clyde Drexler said...":facepalm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yti0-sicI70

[ImmortalNemesis]

Of course it is.

Relevance?

:biggums:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Everything he said is true yet you accuse him of trying portrait Jordan as the perfect basketball player? I'm half retarded, explain it to me.



You can find that kind of quote for so many players. It means very little.

Yup. Players/coaches/etc say that type of stuff about players all the time. Clyde was asked who was the toughest player he had to guard and it wasn't Jordan.

But when the majority of players/coaches agree with it as well though? .....it becomes a consensus. I'm sure we can quote a coach/player saying Rose is the quickest guard ever, or that Paul is the smartest basketball player ever. Players/coaches talk out of their ass all the time. The same can't be said about Jordan.

[Legends66NBA7]

You can find that kind of quote for so many players. It means very little.

Maybe he isn't the fastest... he was to Drexler and that's his opinion on it.

It depends who your asking who it means very little too.

[RaininTwos]

Maybe he isn't the fastest... he was to Drexler and that's his opinion on it.

It depends who your asking who it means very little too.

It's facepalm worthy because he's trying to validate his opinion of Jordan being the quickest player ever by using a quote from Clyde Drexler. Clyde says so much dumb shit during his rockets broadcasts. I can't take him seriously.

[RaininTwos]

Yup. Players/coaches/etc say that type of stuff about players all the time. Clyde was asked who was the toughest player he had to guard and it wasn't Jordan.

But when the majority of players/coaches agree with it as well though? .....it becomes a consensus. I'm sure we can quote a coach/player saying Rose is the quickest guard ever, or that Paul is the smartest basketball player ever. Players/coaches talk out of their ass all the time. The same can't be said about Jordan.

My problem is the unwritten divide between Jordan and other great players to be honest. People tend to put the guy on a pedestal and use nonsensical, opinionated bullshit like that Clyde stuff to differentiate him from other greats.

[Legends66NBA7]

People tend to put the guy on a pedestal and use nonsensical, opinionated bullshit like that Clyde stuff to differentiate him from other greats.

Starting listing the names that have done this.

[Ancient Legend]

My problem is the unwritten divide between Jordan and other great players to be honest. People tend to put the guy on a pedestal and use nonsensical, opinionated bullshit like that Clyde stuff to differentiate him from other greats.

Everyone from Magic, Bird and most, if not all, of his contemporaries say Michael is the best ever.

[RaininTwos]

Starting listing the names that have done this.
Definitely going to list people names and try to recall posters names. At 4 in the morning nonetheless...

[RaininTwos]

Everyone from Magic, Bird and most, if not all, of his contemporaries say Michael is the best ever.
So if I said Bieber's new CD was the best album of the year...does that automatically mean that no other CD's came close to it's greatness?

No.

Hence the word "divide".

[Legends66NBA7]

Definitely going to list people names and try to recall posters names. At 4 in the morning nonetheless...

I should have meant at another time.

I said that a lot underrate him in circles too, so I'll do that another time, just to say it's not always the case that people put him up there for the sake of bias or opinion or whatever reason.

I actually forgot how damn late it is. :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

I should have meant at another time.

I said that a lot underrate him in circles too, so I'll do that another time, just to say it's not always the case that people put him up there for the sake of bias or opinion or whatever reason.

I actually forgot how damn late it is. :oldlol:

Yeah dude I was like,"I know this dude lives around the GTA...the f*ck is he even talking about?"

I'm not the only person to notice this trend though, I know Mr.I'm So Rad and I have discussed this in the past.

[madmax]

Lebron > Jordan.
This will become more and more obvious as LBJ racks up the rings, while raping the league in the process as the most complete basketball player of all time. Space Jam generation tards are already squirming in their boots:cheers:

[RaininTwos]

:biggums: delete your post. this shit has nothing to do with bron.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm not the only person to notice this trend though, I know Mr.I'm So Rad and I have discussed this in the past.

The OP ?

It's not like Rad hasn't stanned either or intentionally trolled.


:biggums: delete your post. this shit has nothing to do with bron.

I think he missed the point... but then again, I feel a lot of posters view trying to imply Bron here.

By the way... saw this in another thread:


You cannot be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME in an era. It's impossible. Stop being stupid.

Off course, that was a response to a troll... but this links to your OP, yes ?

[j3lademaster]

It wouldn't bother you so much if most of the hype wasn't true.

He wasn't God, but he was good enough in enough areas that his name frequently comes up in comparisons. Speed? Drexler said MJ had the quickest feet he's ever seen. Strength? Robert Horry said he was the strongest guard in the league. Fundamentals? As sound as anyone who's ever played. Skills? All time level. Competitiveness? One of the fiercest. IQ? One of the smartest. Hops? One of the best. Hangtime? Ditto. Clutch? One of the absolute best. Playoff performer? May be the best.

Best scoring guard (non-center) in NBA History.
One of the most efficient.
One of the best shotblocking guards.
One of the best ball thieves in history.
One of the best perimeter defenders.
Dominated the league for 13 seasons.
Spearheaded two different back-to-back-to-back champions.
Et cetera...

In most categories, his name will come up. Legitimately. And that's what's really bothering you.

What part of the bolded do you not agree with, OP? Just curious.

[Legends66NBA7]

What part of the bolded do you not agree with, OP? Just curious.

He responded with this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7464043&postcount=36


Of course it is.

Relevance?

I think I know what he's trying to say... it's a very outside the box thinking, if I'm correct.

[GOBB]

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

What are you saying? He should have won more? :roll:

[ImmortalNemesis]

He responded with this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7464043&postcount=36



I think I know what he's trying to say... it's a very outside the box thinking, if I'm correct.

I understand what he's getting at. He has a point. It's true, a lot of times Jordan is painted as this perfect basketball player who can't be touched. Jordan can be touched and he can be surpassed. LeBron James had potential to surpass Jordan. Now? Maybe not anymore. But back in his Cleveland days after beating Detroit he had a legit shot. He carried Cleveland all the way to the finals with a scrub team and he was barely in his early 20s. If he kept growing as a player + championships in Cleveland, he'd had a case for surpassing Michael.

I guess it depends how you look at it really. This thread is a perfect example. Da Realist posted facts about Jordan and OP took it as him trying to portrait Jordan as this flawless basketball player. This pretty much sums it up:


In most categories, his name will come up. Legitimately. And that's what's really bothering you.

Key word: Legitimately. The reason why Jordan's name comes up a lot is because of his all around game. Is Jordan quicker than Iverson? Maybe not, but point still stands, Jordan in his prime was one the quickest guards ever. Jordan's footwork in the post the same as Olajuwon's or Big O's? No, but Jordan's footwork in the paint area is one of the best. Jordan's mid-range jumper on par with Bird's? Debatable. Jordan is one of the best in many areas of the game, and that's what separates him from the rest.

[SpecialQue]

I have no problem with people calling Jordan one of the greatest players of all time, but it pisses me off to no end when they do that by trashing his teammates. People talk about Jordan like his supporting cast was worse than Lebron's during the Spurs/Cavs series.

[Bigsmoke]

umm...


what the **** is this?

[SHAQisGOAT]

I would say more overhyped than overrated, but he can be both, a whole lot, yes.

People act like guys like Kareem, Bird or such along that line weren't even in the same, like he was in another zone way above.

Also hate the impact he had in the game, more perimeter orientated players, more do-it-all players, less work down low big man.

With that said, the man is still arguably the GOAT so it is what it is.

[fsvr54]

He didn't retire for two years, he retire for 1 year and a half. People seems to forget Shaq's Magic beat him.

[I<3NBA]

why he only had six? he retired. otherwise, he would have 8. and if he got Pippen or PJax earlier in his career, he'd have even more.

[hawke812]

Never heard of this scrub role player.

[rmt]

I dislike MJ - his HOF speech showed what a pitiful excuse of a human being he is but when it came to the basketball court, he is NOT over-rated. I've seen KAJ (not his early career), Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron and NO ONE compares to MJ. What really stands out (other than the basketball skills) was his competitiveness/will. He knew and his opponents knew that he was going to will them to a win. GOAT IMO.

[Money 23]

Sounds like the ramblings of a 12 year old who's been watching the game for a year.
I've known the kid for a long time ...

Trust me, he's just resentful of the fact he didn't get to watch the greatest do it, within context.

I've seen him be flat out disrespectful to legends such as MJ, Magic, and Bird ... without hesitation or shame.

It's down right pathetic. The odd hate just oozes through in his post.

Yes, MJ is generally regarded as the greatest ever for a reason. And yes, by very definition he is an American god of basketball.

If you love the game as you see it today, you better be appreciative of MJ and what came before to set the table for this guys today. Disrespecting them, is spitting on your favorite player's favorite player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I've known the kid for a long time ...

Trust me, he's just resentful of the fact he didn't get to watch the greatest do it, within context.

I've seen him be flat out disrespectful to legends such as MJ, Magic, and Bird ... without hesitation or shame.

It's down right pathetic. The odd hate just oozes through in his post.

Yes, MJ is generally regarded as the greatest ever for a reason. And yes, by very definition he is an American god of basketball.

If you love the game as you see it today, you better be appreciative of MJ and what came before to set the table for this guys today. Disrespecting them, is spitting on your favorite player's favorite player.

IDK. Maybe he's just not very bright. :confusedshrug:

[Fudge]

Aw man, given out too much reputation today. Tomorrows another day. Bookmarked.

[RaininTwos]

...and threads like these are why we can't have any thing nice. one obviously sarcastic comment gets highlighted as the crux of my argument and now I'm a hater. ISH just continually proves that most people are idiots.

Anyways, I'll continue to have my slightly off opinions and you'll continue reading them, no matter how many times you take shots at my intelligence or how many games I've watched.

[Money 23]

It wouldn't bother you so much if most of the hype wasn't true.

He wasn't God, but he was good enough in enough areas that his name frequently comes up in comparisons. Speed? Drexler said MJ had the quickest feet he's ever seen. Strength? Robert Horry said he was the strongest guard in the league. Fundamentals? As sound as anyone who's ever played. Skills? All time level. Competitiveness? One of the fiercest. IQ? One of the smartest. Hops? One of the best. Hangtime? Ditto. Clutch? One of the absolute best. Playoff performer? May be the best.

Best scoring guard (non-center) in NBA History.
One of the most efficient.
One of the best shotblocking guards.
One of the best ball thieves in history.
One of the best perimeter defenders.
Dominated the league for 13 seasons.
Spearheaded two different back-to-back-to-back champions.
Et cetera...

In most categories, his name will come up. Legitimately. And that's what's really bothering you.
Exactly :pimp:


...and threads like these are why we can't have any thing nice. one obviously sarcastic comment gets highlighted as the crux of my argument and now I'm a hater. ISH just continually proves that most people are idiots.
That's the essence of your post though, hate ... yet offset with "I understand his impace and greatness"

Obviously you don't, especially if his name being so highly regarded and mentioned among the best of the best bothers you.

You resent that anything his name is associated to greatness, that you never witnessed (you were too young) and it bothers you because it's legit. How on earth is Michael Jordan overrated?

If anyone ever saw him in his prime from '89 - '98 dare say that MJ is overrated ... you'd get bitch smacked or laughed at. If you were playing pick up and said this, someone would check the ball right at your dome.

If you actually understood his greatness, this wouldn't even come out of your mouth if you appreciated his worth.

[Young X]

This thread is basically one of those "Does MJ have to be the best at everything??!! :rolleyes:" type threads.

[BuffaloBill]

Why does Shaq only have 4 rings?

[RaininTwos]

That's the essence of your post though, hate ... yet offset with "I understand his impace and greatness"

Obviously you don't, especially if his name being so highly regarded and mentioned among the best of the best bothers you.
I would really like to see where this is from.

No one is here saying MJ is the best ball handler, shooter, 3 point shooter of all-time.
People have during my time here, of course no one would dare prove my point in a thread that speaks out against that behavior...or would they?

You resent that anything his name is associated to greatness, that you never witnessed (you were too young) and it bothers you because it's legit. How on earth is Michael Jordan overrated?
I guess MJ played in an era where you just had to be there to see it.:facepalm

No footage exists. I've seen footage online that show San Francisco in 1908 but apparently there are people who are just too young to see MJ.


If anyone ever saw him in his prime from '89 - '98 dare say that ... you'd get bitch smacked. If you were playing pick up and said this, someone would check the ball right at your dome.

I wouldn't call that his prime but I feel as if there is a massive comprehension issue on this site so from now I will post the long form of each argument and the cliffs.

Cliffs of OP:
-I admit that MJ is one the greatest to ever do it
-I feel as if he's been overrated by quite a few people here
-Some make it seem like he has no weakness and is practically unbeatable in his prime
-I believe that any legend or legendary squad would battle him and give him a good run for his money, he's not a god

Response: I'm twelve and I'm a hater.

:applause:

[mehyaM24]

jeez, some of yall act as if what we see today is rare or something. go to your closest book store / library and you'll easily find 10+ books/almanacs about jordan (and his greatness). they're literally everywhere.

young dudes are so dumb when it comes to the history of the game.

[BlueandGold]

I agree with a lot of that post.. i'm a huge MJ fan but when you try to look at his impact objectively:

pros he brought to the game:
- most spectacular SG play of all time
- increased popularity of the NBA at home as well as internationally
- branding of NBA players so that they become household names (might be arguably as a negative, either way it made the game more popular)

cons he brought to the game:
- too many players wanting to play hero ball
- too many "next jordan" type of players
-destroyed or decreased the amount of fundamentals seen in young and even veteran NBA players these days

Either way it's not like Jordan planned for all those negative things to happen.. if anything the media is the primary one responsible. That was just Jordan's game..

[Money 23]

Why does Shaq only have 4 rings?
Because dominant centers aren't as dominate as dominant wing players.

Jordan: 6 rings
Kobe: 5 rings
Magic: 5 rings
Wade: 2 rings
Isiah Thomas: 2 rings

LeBron will probably finish in the three to four range in terms of probable rings, could end up with a lot more, though. He'd already have 2x if he didn't choke in 2011.

[taabhimself]

There's nothing overrated about the Beatles. If you understand them and their impact then you'll know that's not the case.

idk if anyone has said this, i'm not going to read the whole thread but - paul mccartney is one of the most overrated musicians of all time. his solo career is gaaaaaaaarbage (see "silly love songs", "my love". the entire wings library etc.)

[Money 23]

idk if anyone has said this, i'm not going to read the whole thread but - paul mccartney is one of the most overrated musicians of all time. his solo career is gaaaaaaaarbage (see "silly love songs", "my love". the entire wings library etc.)
He said the BEATLES though, not Paul McCartney.

He could've used Elvis, Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson or any other individual singer to make the analogy better suited.

Point still stands, and he's right.

[RaininTwos]

He said the BEATLES though, not Paul McCartney.

He could've used Elvis, Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson or any other individual singer to make the analogy better suited.

Point still stands, and he's right.

Yes, Michael Jackson could had made that analogy better. Thanks for proving my point.:roll:

[taabhimself]

he's right, jordan is the GOAT. but what he said was "there's nothing overrated about the beatles." which is FALSE - paul mccartney is something overrated about the beatles.

[Heavincent]

The Beatles are extremely overrated imo. There are a shitload of other bands I'd rather listen to. Their impact was obviously huge, but that doesn't stop them from being boring to me.

Music cannot be compared to basketball though. Music is FAR more subjective than sports.

[Money 23]

he's right, jordan is the GOAT. but what he said was "there's nothing overrated about the beatles." which is FALSE - paul mccartney is something overrated about the beatles.
You're basing that off Paul McCartney's solo career.

Everything he did WITHIN the confines of the Beatles is legendary.


Yes, Michael Jackson could had made that analogy better. Thanks for proving my point
What's overrated about Michael Jackson, now? Jesus, you're a broken record youngin.

Go back to the Bieber tracks.

[Fudge]

What's overrated about Michael Jackson, now? Jesus, you're a broken record youngin.

Go back to the Bieber tracks.
He's a Drake fan though. :lol Take that for what it's worth.

[KungFuJoe]

Jordan is the very definition of greatest of all time.

[Money 23]

He's a Drake fan though. :lol Take that for what it's worth.
Jesus :(

That degrassi reject? haha

[RaininTwos]

What's overrated about Michael Jackson, now? Jesus, you're a broken record youngin.

Go back to the Bieber tracks.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2cynbmcOtnA/TPPw0zwaCTI/AAAAAAAABsQ/CgSIXKSFRjA/s1600/sarcasm_detector.jpg

your shit is broken

[TeamLAC]

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.
Please kill yourself lmao

[Money 23]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2cynbmcOtnA/TPPw0zwaCTI/AAAAAAAABsQ/CgSIXKSFRjA/s1600/sarcasm_detector.jpg

your shit is broken
Sarcasm is usually detected in face to face interactions, with tone of voice

It's significantly harder to tell sarcasm in point black, black and white text.

:roll:

[taabhimself]

You're basing that off Paul McCartney's solo career.

Everything he did WITHIN the confines of the Beatles is legendary.

naw, i'm saying that his solo career just proved exactly how overrated he was. he wrote some amazing songs with the beatles."yesterday", great song. but "you know my name" is legendary? "ob-la-di"? "maxwell's silver hammer"? "golden slumbers"? these are all shitty songs. look at "a day in the life" - he ruins lennon's introspective look at the world with some garbage about catching the bus.

even some that people call classic are bad. "hey jude" is a sleepwalking song. "let it be" - do you realize how many times the phrase "let it be" is said in that sh!t? mccartney writes nifty songs but he would never have been legendary, as you say, without lennon. OVERRATED!





jordan is the goat though.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How are the Beatles overrated, Hevincent?


Please kill yourself lmao

He was just being "sarcastic". :roll:

[Money 23]

He was just being "sarcastic". :roll:
Can't you tell ... :rolleyes:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Heavincent]

"hey jude" is a sleepwalking song.


Just like most Beatles songs.

To me anyway.

[RRR3]

Just like most Beatles songs.

To me anyway.
blasphemy

[Legends66NBA7]

Damn, I did not think this would get bumped.

:biggums:

I probably should not have linked this thread in the other thread.

I had a feeling it was some what sarcastic, but I only linked to RaininTwos because some idiots were just calling Jordan = god, so.... it happens to every player really.

[tikay0]

TS is a retard. So, the GOAT basketball player has to 100% perfect now??? NO ONE's perfect. He's just as close to basketball perfection there is, and his stats back that up....:facepalm

[taabhimself]

we all know that jordan is the GOAT. let's steer this back towards the overrated beatles.

[AK47DR91]

:roll: @ "...then how come he only has six titles to his name."

Yeah, man. He didn't do shit other than collecting 6 rings. Let's just put him on the same list as Horry, Kerr, Salley, Fisher since they all have 5 or more rings.

There was absolutely NO substance in his game other than "just those 6 titles."

He didn't really win 4 MVPs during those 6 championship runs either, clearly stupid sportwriters gave it to him. He didn't get 6 Finals MVP either, Pippen allowed him to be the Finals MVP in all 6 appearances. He didn't really win 6 scoring titles(10 total) in all of those 6 Finals seasons.

IT WAS JUST 6 TITLES!

[RaininTwos]

Sarcasm is usually detected in face to face interactions, with tone of voice

It's significantly harder to tell sarcasm in point black, black and white text.

:roll:
It's way easier when I completely agree with your nonsensical argument

[RaininTwos]

:roll: @ "...then how come he only has six titles to his name."

Yeah, man. He didn't do shit other than collecting 6 rings. Let's just put him on the same list as Horry, Kerr, Salley, Fisher since they all have 5 or more rings.

There was absolutely NO substance in his game other than "just those 6 titles."

He didn't really win 4 MVPs during those 6 championship runs either, clearly stupid sportwriters gave it to him. He didn't get 6 Finals MVP either, Pippen allowed him to be the Finals MVP in all 6 appearances. He didn't really win 6 scoring titles(10 total) in all of those 6 Finals seasons.

IT WAS JUST 6 TITLES!
Getting that riled up over more sarcasm? Of course six titles is an achievement. I thought that would be more entertaining than "If he's so god-like and as close to perfect as possible, how come he only won six titles?".

[Money 23]

It's way easier when I completely agree with your nonsensical argument
The only one who is clearly nonsensical here is yourself.

"Michael Jordan? Six Championships? Greatest of all-time, my ass ... I'm mad that he's so overrated in retrospect."

"Oh, and Michael Jackson is overrated too"

* blasts Thank Me Now by Drake *

STFU, everyone is making fun of you right now, take your lumps and apologize.

[RaininTwos]

The only one who is clearly nonsensical here is yourself.

"Michael Jordan? Six Championships? Greatest of all-time, my ass ... I'm mad that he's so overrated in retrospect."

"Oh, and Michael Jackson is overrated too"

* blasts Thank Me Now by Drake *

STFU, everyone is making fun of you right now, take your lumps and apologize.
I never said michael jackson was overrated lol


He said the BEATLES though, not Paul McCartney.

He could've used Elvis, Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson or any other individual singer to make the analogy better suited.

Point still stands, and he's right.

You said it.

[RaininTwos]

Go back to the Bieber tracks.
my last fm guys...cheers (http://www.last.fm/user/PowerGlove18/charts?rangetype=overall&subtype=artists)

[AK47DR91]

He didn't retire for two years, he retire for 1 year and a half. People seems to forget Shaq's Magic beat him.Not to take anything away from Shaq, Penny and Orlando but it was CLOSER to 2 years and "a year and a half."

When he came back in the 1994-95 season, it wasn't until March. Last month of the regular season. Only played 17 games. That's not even 1/4th of a full season.

[Da KO King]

I've never understood the "you've never seen him play live" argument. Why the hell does that matter?

Oh, and being over-rated/over-hyped and being one of the greatest to do something is NOT mutually exclusive!

[AK47DR91]

my last fm guys...cheers (http://www.last.fm/user/PowerGlove18/charts?rangetype=overall&subtype=artists)

Your musical compatibility with PowerGlove18 is VERY LOW
Music you have in common includes Kanye West, Nas, *Lil' Wayne*, Mobb Deep and The Kinks.

*He's only on there because of "Outro," otherwise he wouldn't be on my playlist.

But you have The Kinks!!!!! :bowdown:

[RaininTwos]

I've never understood the "you've never seen him play live" argument. Why the hell does that matter?

Oh, and being over-rated/over-hyped and being one of the greatest to do something is NOT mutually exclusive!
To be fair, seeing something live does add to the experience. You aren't just witnessing the event, you are feeling the moment. I understand that aspect, but people are just flat out being remedial when they assume that someone with over 22 hasn't seen Bulls MJ(especially when I mentioned a game from 96/97 in the first post of this thread). People get so emotional here.

[RaininTwos]

*He's only on there because of "Outro," otherwise he wouldn't be on my playlist.

But you have The Kinks!!!!! :bowdown:


That british empire conceptual album is MY SHIT.:applause: I had their whole discography on my old computer but I need to transfer it to this one.

Add me.

[Dbrog]

jeez, some of yall act as if what we see today is rare or something. go to your closest book store / library and you'll easily find 10+ books/almanacs about jordan (and his greatness). they're literally everywhere.

young dudes are so dumb when it comes to the history of the game.

And clearly you are too dumb to see that books have nothing to do with how great a player someone was. It shows how popular and the media hype/push around them was...but that was David Stern, not Jordan.

Jordan is indeed overrated on this board (which says a lot since he's probably the GOAT). Was he an unstoppable force in the 90s? Yes. He didn't really have much competition though.

He beatdown on Ewing and Malone (congrats). I feel like his first title was his best playoff year cause he only lost twice even though he faced old-pistons, old-lakers, Chuck/Hersey, and nohelp Ewing. Pretty all pretty legit teams IMO. 92 was straight easy as was 93 (with the exception of the overachieving Suns). He lost to shaq in 95. Then steamrolled everyone from 96-98 cause they got superstacked at the time with the addition of Rodman.

What "great" teams did they really face? Certainly none that were in their prime and true "contenders." There were no 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers. There were not even the less-legendary tiers from the 80s like the 83/85 Sixers or the fullstrength Rockets with Sampson and Hakeem. Jordan lucked out with his time period in a watered down league. However, IMO he still would have won 4-6 titles simply because he was that good. It just wouldn't have been in such a dominant fashion. I wonder if this was the point the OP was trying to make.

Btw: Beatles were pioneers of music at the time. Their music, while interesting, is very simple by todays standards (to be expected).

[taabhimself]

Btw: Beatles were pioneers of music at the time. Their music, while interesting, is very simple by todays standards (to be expected).

what do you mean, simple? keep in mind, i was arguing for their overratedness. but what does that even mean?

[Dbrog]

what do you mean, simple? keep in mind, i was arguing for their overratedness. but what does that even mean?

Their first few albums were very...well...poppy. Think Backstreet Boys of the era. Obviously they went off to do some interesting stuff after this (IMO Lennon went outside the box the most). However, I wouldn't say it was more exploratory than groups like the Beach Boys or the Rolling Stones or Zeppelin etc. They weren't some God-Tier and their chord progressions weren't that crazy for nowadays standards (nor should they be). They would maybe throw in ONE chord that was wonky wheras nowadays there is some straight up non-tonal music. So when I say "simple," I'm talking about the technicality of the music. Sorry if this is over anyone's head...I was a music minor :D

[Mr. Jabbar]

Despite falling short to be as great as kobe in almost every category (which is not an insult by any means) Jordan was quite good if you ask me.

[alleykat]

wow.....way to ruin the fun of the NBA...
Of course everybody exaggerates players, thats part of being a fan of the NBA.

So i take it you don't like "GOAT" being passed around too much for players, and thats understandable. As a fan which would get you more excited? That your favorite player was an unstoppable monster or that he was a great player who needed some work?

I can't tell you how many slow-motions I've seen of MJ or Iverson moves set to insane dramatic music just to make it a bigger deal than it was. It just makes it more exciting as a fan, and MJ had a lot....

[taabhimself]

Their first few albums were very...well...poppy. Think Backstreet Boys of the era. Obviously they went off to do some interesting stuff after this (IMO Lennon went outside the box the most). However, I wouldn't say it was more exploratory than groups like the Beach Boys or the Rolling Stones or Zeppelin etc. They weren't some God-Tier and their chord progressions weren't that crazy for nowadays standards (nor should they be). They would maybe throw in ONE chord that was wonky wheras nowadays there is some straight up non-tonal music. So when I say "simple," I'm talking about the technicality of the music. Sorry if this is over anyone's head...I was a music minor :D

just wanted clarification. this makes sense. but as a music guy obviously you realize that just because a song has a simple chord progression doesn't make it simple in its entirety. staying with the fab four "working class hero" is Am and G for 3:30 but its eternally brilliant.

and the more i think about it, i can't call their albums past hard days night "simple" even referring to only chord progressions. mccartney for all the shit i have given him took pretty interesting chord progressions and made them radio-friendly. he was always chucking in 7ths and sus chords. i think his chord changes might be his strongest suit. although i agree, "hold your hand" and "saw her standing there" and the earlier stuff are all standard 3 chord pop songs.

jordan = zeppelin. GOAT. :D

[Micku]

And clearly you are too dumb to see that books have nothing to do with how great a player someone was. It shows how popular and the media hype/push around them was...but that was David Stern, not Jordan.

Jordan is indeed overrated on this board (which says a lot since he's probably the GOAT). Was he an unstoppable force in the 90s? Yes. He didn't really have much competition though.

He beatdown on Ewing and Malone (congrats). I feel like his first title was his best playoff year cause he only lost twice even though he faced old-pistons, old-lakers, Chuck/Hersey, and nohelp Ewing. Pretty all pretty legit teams IMO. 92 was straight easy as was 93 (with the exception of the overachieving Suns). He lost to shaq in 95. Then steamrolled everyone from 96-98 cause they got superstacked at the time with the addition of Rodman.

What "great" teams did they really face? Certainly none that were in their prime and true "contenders." There were no 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers. There were not even the less-legendary tiers from the 80s like the 83/85 Sixers or the fullstrength Rockets with Sampson and Hakeem. Jordan lucked out with his time period in a watered down league. However, IMO he still would have won 4-6 titles simply because he was that good. It just wouldn't have been in such a dominant fashion. I wonder if this was the point the OP was trying to make.

Btw: Beatles were pioneers of music at the time. Their music, while interesting, is very simple by todays standards (to be expected).

No it wasn't. Knicks were tough that year and the Blazers were pretty good. In 93, Knicks were even tougher and the Suns were one of the best teams to not win a NBA title.

And, what team is like those 80s? Plus, those teams were great throughout the decade. No one talks about the Celts 85, but they were a pretty good team. 84 Sixers were great too or the Bucks, or the Hawks. It's because they all lost.

Point being: you don't remember the teams that loses. Sooner or later, people are going to forget about the Kings 2002 and the Blazers 2000, even though they were great teams. The Bulls face some very good teams too, but they not as good as they were.

---

To the OP: Da Realist basically said that was needed to be said. He was an all around player who was elite at almost everything. Almost no flaw in his game. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have bad nights. Sometimes he can shoot too much.

One thing to add is that his lift on his jumper was really high, and the hangtime was amazing. It's very hard to contest that shot. Plus he took smart shots. His game went with the offensive flow. Jordan is also top 3 in steals in all time, number 1 in PPG, shot 50% of his career, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and it goes on and on. He basically had the perfect NBA career in terms of accomplishments.

And I disagree your notion of his impact on the game. It just seems that you are tired of hearing how great he is. I think his real negative impact is the fact the media desperately wants to find the next Michael Jordan. And players become a bit selfish and play hero ball. Some are label to be like Mike and are constantly compared to him, which is very annoying. They interpret Jordan's game wrong. It was shown by their level of play in the early 00s. It changed when LBJ and Wade came in the league.

I honestly think it's a set back in comparison to what Magic and Bird did. They establish more team ball, and showed how the game could be played within the offense and getting the teammates involved. For a while, it was believed that you couldn't be the scoring leader and win the championship at the same time (Kareem was the exception at the time). As I said before, it was bad in the early 00s, but got better lately.

[Bandito]

He only have six titles because he took a sabbatical for 2 years and when he came back he was out of shape and couldn't win that year. Everybody knows that, oh wait I keep forgetting not everybody was born in the 80's LOL

[scandisk_]

I think his real negative impact is the fact the media desperately wants to find the next Michael Jordan. And players become a bit selfish and play hero ball. Some are label to be like Mike and are constantly compared to him, which is very annoying. They interpret Jordan's game wrong.

All that needs to be said really, some people must understand that MJ's game from the ground up was very fundamental. It's just his hero ball with dramatic finishes appeal more to the media. It's not like that most of the time though, just watch his game tapes and you can truly see the difference and beauty of his game.

All in all it's the media's fault, it's getting tiring really

[gin17]

So if I said Bieber's new CD was the best album of the year...does that automatically mean that no other CD's came close to it's greatness?

No.

Hence the word "divide".
your opinion doesn't mean shit compared to the plethora of opinions out there. but if you're one of the best with regards to the issue at hand, then your opinion greatly counts.

For example, if all other all-time bests/greatest artists also say that Justin Bieber's new CD is the best, in the process conceding their own chance at the argument, then that tells you something. (of course, this is just a what-if scenario)

[Boston C's]

Despite falling short to be as great as kobe in almost every category (which is not an insult by any means) Jordan was quite good if you ask me.

:lol

[KOBE143]

I think MJ is a little bit overrated but still, he's up there with Kobe as one of the greatest player..

[Dro]

we still on this? How many times does this need to be posted? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KamJ25XsgpY all questions shall be answered in this video..

[jstern]

The thing about a player as good as Jordan is that to really understand it you would have had to watch him as his career was unfolding, and not in hindsight. Even if it's a younger person who's a big of Jordan, but only learned of him after his career was over would have no idea. What's left for younger people is for them to use the logic that they use when they compare current superstar vs other current superstars, and looking at it through that concept.

What made Jordan the GOAT to me in particular was his extreme clutchness.

[tikay0]

And clearly you are too dumb to see that books have nothing to do with how great a player someone was. It shows how popular and the media hype/push around them was...but that was David Stern, not Jordan.

Jordan is indeed overrated on this board (which says a lot since he's probably the GOAT). Was he an unstoppable force in the 90s? Yes. He didn't really have much competition though.

He beatdown on Ewing and Malone (congrats). I feel like his first title was his best playoff year cause he only lost twice even though he faced old-pistons, old-lakers, Chuck/Hersey, and nohelp Ewing. Pretty all pretty legit teams IMO. 92 was straight easy as was 93 (with the exception of the overachieving Suns). He lost to shaq in 95. Then steamrolled everyone from 96-98 cause they got superstacked at the time with the addition of Rodman.

What "great" teams did they really face? Certainly none that were in their prime and true "contenders." There were no 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers. There were not even the less-legendary tiers from the 80s like the 83/85 Sixers or the fullstrength Rockets with Sampson and Hakeem. Jordan lucked out with his time period in a watered down league. However, IMO he still would have won 4-6 titles simply because he was that good. It just wouldn't have been in such a dominant fashion. I wonder if this was the point the OP was trying to make.

Btw: Beatles were pioneers of music at the time. Their music, while interesting, is very simple by todays standards (to be expected).

:biggums: :wtf: :eek:

92' was straight up easy??? Beating arguably the greatest/most physical defensive team of all time in the knicks, was "straight up easy???".

[Money 23]

92' was straight up easy???
'91 Pistons
'91 Lakers
'92 Knicks
'92 Cavs
'93 Cavs
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns
'96 Knicks
'96 Magic
'96 Sonics
'97 Heat
'97 Jazz
'98 Pacers
'98 Jazz

None of these teams were jokes.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Funny thing is OP lied in the thread title, he does not understand sh1t :lol

[Money 23]

Funny thing is OP lied in the thread title, he does not understand sh1t :lol
THIS !!!

[Legends66NBA7]

'91 Pistons
'91 Lakers
'92 Knicks
'92 Cavs
'93 Cavs
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns
'96 Knicks
'96 Magic
'96 Sonics
'97 Heat
'97 Jazz
'98 Pacers
'98 Jazz

None of these teams were jokes.

The bold are teams that won 60 or more games that year.

No other NBA dynasty went up and defeated more 60+ win teams than the 90s Bulls. Not that 60+ means your an automatic power house, but it still worthy to note.

Sure, the 80s did have powerhouses that could contend with these 90s teams. But overall, offense and defense, they were tough teams in the 90s... and the Bulls beat them all.

[KOBE143]

The bold are teams that won 60 or more games that year.

No other NBA dynasty went up and defeated more 60+ win teams than the 90s Bulls. Not that 60+ means your an automatic power house, but it still worthy to note.

Sure, the 80s did have powerhouses that could contend with these 90s teams. But overall, offense and defense, they were tough teams in the 90s... and the Bulls beat them all.
Their win was inflated becos of team expansion and the 90s was known for watered down era.. So winning 60+ in the 90s means shit..

[RaininTwos]

Their win was inflated becos of team expansion and the 90s was known for watered down era.. So winning 60+ in the 90s means shit..
It does mean a lot to win 60 games, but that is a very valid point. There were a lot of new teams and a tons of shitty ones as well.

The one that most arguments here lack is congruence, people will use any point to prop up whoever they desire.

I still haven't read a well thought-out response that counters anything that I have said here.

[Asukal]

It does mean a lot to win 60 games, but that is a very valid point. There were a lot of new teams and a tons of shitty ones as well.

The one that most arguments here lack is congruence, people will use any point to prop up whoever they desire.

I still haven't read a well thought-out response that counters anything that I have said here.

How can you since you are blind to reality? :oldlol:

[Rysio]

op got owned by jordan stans. :applause:

[RaininTwos]

How can you since you are blind to reality? :oldlol:
What is the reality?:lol

My posts aren't discrediting his achievements, nor his skills, so what is this reality that you speak of?

I was speaking out against the god treatment that he gets from here. I also think he's the greatest ever. I've watched him play. He's extremely well rounded. He's done some great things.

How does that counter the fact that he's treated like he's tiers above other top 5 players? It doesn't. Not one bit.

The sad truth is that most posters like to engage in petty arguments and make unrelated remarks about my character like being a Drake fan is a bad thing these days, lol.

I think there are only about three people who even read the whole post, every one else rushed to judgement because of one sarcastic line.

Anyways, let this thread die.

[Sarcastic]

Sometimes the all time greatest players in a particular sport JUST ARE tiers ahead of their competitors.


http://gifs.gifbin.com/1234778873_Muhammad_Ali_dodging_punches.gif

[Da KO King]

The fact people say "Michael took two years off" is just another example of the exaggerations of Jordan worshipers. He took one season off, and started practicing with the Bulls in January for his March return in a second. His time away from the game was not nearly as extensive as people make it seem.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

What is the reality?:lol

My posts aren't discrediting his achievements, nor his skills, so what is this reality that you speak of?

I was speaking out against the god treatment that he gets from here. I also think he's the greatest ever. I've watched him play. He's extremely well rounded. He's done some great things.

How does that counter the fact that he's treated like he's tiers above other top 5 players? It doesn't. Not one bit.

The sad truth is that most posters like to engage in petty arguments and make unrelated remarks about my character like being a Drake fan is a bad thing these days, lol.

I think there are only about three people who even read the whole post, every one else rushed to judgement because of one sarcastic line.

Anyways, let this thread die.

Dude whats your point?


You talking about petty arguments, while you spent 10 pages arguing a non argument.


You're taking a bunch of generalized statements, then generalizing them into a POV of view, which you claim everyone has... Is there anything specific you disagree with? Do you just like attention? Yes, no one can disagree with you, because you aren't really saying anything. Jordan is not God, thanks for that insight bro. Is he the greatest? Maybe. Is he slightly better than everyone else? Maybe. Wtf is your point? I dont know.

[tikay0]

Sometimes the all time greatest players in a particular sport JUST ARE tiers ahead of their competitors.


http://gifs.gifbin.com/1234778873_Muhammad_Ali_dodging_punches.gif

I remember the first time I saw that GIF.

:biggums: Bows down in awe......

[tikay0]

OP's just one of those average people in life, that don't understand how someone can be so great.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The fact people say "Michael took two years off" is just another example of the exaggerations of Jordan worshipers. He took one season off, and started practicing with the Bulls in January for his March return in a second. His time away from the game was not nearly as extensive as people make it seem.

He didn't play competitive basketball for 21 months, and came back with like 17 games left in the regular season. That's close to 2 years than your "one year" claim.

[IGOTGAME]

Sometimes the all time greatest players in a particular sport JUST ARE tiers ahead of their competitors.


http://gifs.gifbin.com/1234778873_Muhammad_Ali_dodging_punches.gif
Ali was not the greatest boxer so I'm confused.

[guy]

The fact people say "Michael took two years off" is just another example of the exaggerations of Jordan worshipers. He took one season off, and started practicing with the Bulls in January for his March return in a second. His time away from the game was not nearly as extensive as people make it seem.

This is actually completely wrong. He quit baseball in the beginning of that March, delivered the message "I'm Back" to the media mid-March, and then had his first game back at the end of March. He literally quit baseball and came back to basketball in less then a month.

[elementally morale]

I can see where this thread is heading. :oldlol:

ISH fails once again. Overrated isn't an insult. The Beatles are overrated in some circles as well, that doesnt mean they aren't great.


Jordan is seriously overrated, I agree. He is still the best player I've seen since 1980, but he is overrated, yes.

[upside24]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.
So many things wrong in this post I don't have time today to correct all that nonsense.

I'll educate on this though, not all Jordan fans thought he was one of the best in every category. He was however, the best player ever to touch a basketball IMO

Oh yeah, ONLY 6 titles? TWO THREE-PEATS. Not many guys have that on their resume. Without the sabbatical could have possibly been 8 in a row, matching Russell.

[Money 23]

The fact people say "Michael took two years off" is just another example of the exaggerations of Jordan worshipers. He took one season off, and started practicing with the Bulls in January for his March return in a second. His time away from the game was not nearly as extensive as people make it seem.
MJ came into 1995 with basically 15 games left in a 82 game season.

He quit baseball in March, played a little bit in some Bulls practices

And was playing LEAGUE games by end of March. That's closer to being gone for 2 years, than it is 1 year.

And ontop of that he was PLAYING his way into basketball shape, which differs greatly from attempted professional baseball shape during those final 15 - 17 games.

KO King once again coming through with absent minded-ness.

[Sharmer]

.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.



Can you list the player you consider to be GOAT?

Could you also list the players you consider to be great? According to your above mentioned opinion they should have more than 6 titles.

[bigt]

Can you list the player you consider to be GOAT?

Could you also list the players you consider to be great? According to your above mentioned opinion they should have more than 6 titles.

Read his post on the previous page. He considers Jordan is the GOAT. He's not arguing that, he's arguing the fact that some people act like he is literal light years ahead of guys like Larry Bird and Kareem.

[nathanjizzle]

its true, mj is ignorantly overrated. but not to fault of his own. he became great enough to cement his name in the nba forever. but people that havent even watched him play think hes and urban legend. he still is the greatest player to ever play the game. but realistically players like lebron and kobe are right behind.

[VegasLakerFan]

I often wonder how Jordan?Magic/Bird etc. would be perceived if the internet were around. The amount of scrutiny after EVERY game these days is vastly different than it used to be.
One problem I have is that people are so focused on individual comparison, and it always comes down to "Nobody even comes CLOSE to Jordan!" when I really think that any player who reaches the level of top 20 all-time could "best" anyone else at that level on any given night.

[Money 23]

I often wonder how Jordan?Magic/Bird etc. would be perceived if the internet were around. The amount of scrutiny after EVERY game these days is vastly different than it used to be.
I think you mean you wonder how Kobe / LeBron would be perceived if the internet weren't around.

And it's fascinating to think about. We are in the age of cynicism. Whether it's sports, or entertainment. The internet gives everyone a voice, even if they are wrong or contrarian for the sake of it.

In Jordan's time, it was the peak for television / cable viewing. We tuned into the NBA on NBCs, the TNTs, the TBS, the WGNs and Sports Channels and were just in awe. People were generally more positive as a whole.

People critique LeBron's 2011 Finals collapse. Magic had a similar collapse, but with out an internet around giving voice to his haters ... we didn't get memes and constant jokes about it.

Bird has played poorly in Finals. MJ didn't play up to his god like standards in the '96 Finals, and in some circles could be considered a bad series. But there was no popular internet or ISH or countless sports shows critiquing over critiquing performances.

Kobe shot poorly in his game 7 in the 2010 Finals, I know for a fact I've seen other superstars (Jordan included) with similar bad games, maybe not in the Finals, but at the very least playoffs.

The internet age has definitely soured our perceptions on certain things, and current greatness.

You can see it happening w/ LeBron right now. He's for my money, the best player I've seen since Jordan, and even on a message board of people who claim to be fans of the game, he still gets un-fairly ripped apart.

And believe me, he deserved his criticisms in 2010 and 2011, but now? There isn't a leg to stand on in regards to cynicism when it comes to obvious greatness. A legend is un-folding in front of us, and some people are blinded by hate, typing out meaningless essays putting him down, while ignoring the once in a lifetime talent in front of their eyes.

As a fan of the game, it is sad to watch. Jordan / Magic / Bird / Isiah Thomas were never this criticized in media or in barber shops as today's legends are on the internet.

[RRR3]

I think you mean you wonder how Kobe / LeBron would be perceived if the internet weren't around.

And it's fascinating to think about. We are in the age of cynicism. Whether it's sports, or entertainment. The internet gives everyone a voice, even if they are wrong or contrarian for the sake of it.

In Jordan's time, it was the peak for television / cable viewing. We tuned into the NBA on NBCs, the TNTs, the TBS, the WGNs and Sports Channels and were just in awe. People were generally more positive as a whole.

People critique LeBron's 2011 Finals collapse. Magic had a similar collapse, but with out an internet around giving voice to his haters ... we didn't get memes and constant jokes about it.

Bird has played poorly in Finals. MJ didn't play up to his god like standards in the '96 Finals, and in some circles could be considered a bad series. But there was no popular internet or ISH or countless sports shows critiquing over critiquing performances.

Kobe shot poorly in his game 7 in the 2010 Finals, I know for a fact I've seen other superstars (Jordan included) with similar bad games, maybe not in the Finals, but at the very least playoffs.

The internet age has definitely soured our perceptions on certain things, and current greatness.

You can see it happening w/ LeBron right now. He's for my money, the best player I've seen since Jordan, and even on a message board of people who claim to be fans of the game, he still gets un-fairly ripped apart.

And believe me, he deserved his criticisms in 2010 and 2011, but now? There isn't a leg to stand on in regards to cynicism when it comes to obvious greatness. A legend is un-folding in front of us, and some people are blinded by hate, typing out meaningless essays putting him down, while ignoring the once in a lifetime talent in front of their eyes.

As a fan of the game, it is sad to watch. Jordan / Magic / Bird / Isiah Thomas were never this criticized in media or in barber shops as today's legends are on the internet.
You think LeBron is better than Shaq?

[Money 23]

You think LeBron is better than Shaq?
Absolutely, without hesitation.

I will be met with countless hate for saying that ... but in the long run, I will be right.

LeBron allows a larger versatility of dominating games than Shaq could. And I'm almost positive we witness LeBron win 3 or 4 rings.

[RRR3]

Absolutely, without hesitation.

I will be met with countless hate for saying that ... but in the long run, I will be right.

LeBron allows a larger versatility of dominating games than Shaq could. And I'm almost positive we witness LeBron win 3 or 4 rings.
I hope LeBron gets at least 3 rings, I'm having to settle for seeing LeBron become an all-time great instead of T-Mac, who is the guy I always thought would be doing what LBJ is doing now :( LBJ is still my 2nd favorite so it's good, plus my 3rd favorite player (Chalmers) is along for the ride and will rack up rings in Derek Fisher's role :D

[Money 23]

I hope LeBron gets at least 3 rings
He would be getting a third this year, if he didn't have such a mental block or anxiety of the pressures he failed to live up to ...

But I think he gets it now. Plus, the monkey is off his back.

T-Mac just never displayed the work ethic, durability, passion for the game that the LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird of the world had that would've allowed him to sustain his abilities and achieve greatness.

It's sad, but ultimately T-Mac will be forgotten.

[RRR3]

He would be getting a third this year, if he didn't have such a mental block or anxiety of the pressures he failed to live up to ...

But I think he gets it now. Plus, the monkey is off his back.

T-Mac just never displayed the work ethic, durability, passion for the game that the LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird of the world had that would've allowed him to sustain his abilities and achieve greatness.

It's sad, but ultimately T-Mac will be forgotten.
I won't ever forget T-Mac though! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[Money 23]

I won't ever forget T-Mac though! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:
Yea, but he was a jaw dropping talent that couldn't endure.

There have been countless of those.

[RRR3]

Yea, but he was a jaw dropping talent that couldn't endure.

There have been countless of those.
He'll always be the best to me :D
Somewhat off topic, how the **** is Kobe shooting so well? It's getting on my nerves the mamba boys suddenly are acting like stats matter after years of hating on them :facepalm
That and ISH is turning me more and more into a Kobe hater, even though I really should appreciate his greatness I just can't it seems.

[Money 23]

He'll always be the best to me :D
Somewhat off topic, how the **** is Kobe shooting so well? It's getting on my nerves the mamba boys suddenly are acting like stats matter after years of hating on them
Stats was never the issue, Kobe is a 25 / 5 / 5 lifer ... it's the shooting percentage.

My dude Black Mamba would fall in love with theatrical hero shots, with 3 dudes all over him, or long range bombs ... when he could've easily used his handle, quickness and smarts to get a mid range jumper to wet on the defender.

This year he's benefitting from not shooting bail out shots, not trying to shoot as many tough jumpers off the dribble, he's not going ISO ball all the time, he's getting more lay-ups, and he's benefitting from defensive attention having to be spread around a lot more.

Particularly on Dwight Howard. All of that smarter ball, and deliberate choice not to shoot dumb shots, plus Dwight Howard, and no end of clock bail out shots = the difference between 45% and 50+% FG percentage.

He's playing well on nothing but ELITE level skill. For all the age, mileage, what he's doing is ridiculous. Top five player right now. Even though Lakers are losing.

He's playing well, but he no longer has that extra gear to take over and win games on his own. So even the high scoring games sometimes seem hollow.

EX: game 6 v.s. OKC when he dropped 42 points.

[RRR3]

Stats was never the issue, Kobe is a 25 / 5 / 5 lifer ... it's the shooting percentage.

My dude Black Mamba would fall in love with theatrical hero shots, with 3 dudes all over him, or long range bombs ... when he could've easily used his handle, quickness and smarts to get a mid range jumper to wet on the defender.

This year he's benefitting from not shooting bail out shots, not trying to shoot as many tough jumpers off the dribble, he's not going ISO ball all the time, he's getting more lay-ups, and he's benefitting from defensive attention having to be spread around a lot more.

Particularly on Dwight Howard. All of that smarter ball, and deliberate choice not to shoot dumb shots, plus Dwight Howard, and no end of clock bail out shots = the difference between 45% and 50+% FG percentage.

He's playing well on nothing but ELITE level skill. For all the age, mileage, what he's doing is ridiculous. Top five player right now. Even though Lakers are losing.

He's playing well, but he no longer has that extra gear to take over and win games on his own. So even the high scoring games sometimes seem hollow.

EX: game 6 v.s. OKC when he dropped 42 points.
He's still hitting a lot of tough shots, though, but he's only taking those when he has to, for the most part. I'm a bit shocked tbh at how under control he's been playing. I thought the Spurs played lackluster defense on him at times, but hey, they got the W. I wonder what he'll end up at by the end of the year, it definitely won't be this high, but maybe 47% or more? LeBron has been efficient as always, but he's also been hitting threes at a great clip. He'll cool down, too, but he needs to get his FT more consistent. That's the part of his game that is really infuriating at times, he's either Dirk or Ben Wallace at the line depending on the game it seems. Lately, he's been Ben Wallace. BTW Swoosh, first year you ever watched NBA?

[Legends66NBA7]

As a fan of the game, it is sad to watch. Jordan / Magic / Bird / Isiah Thomas were never this criticized in media or in barber shops as today's legends are on the internet.

Which makes me hate this era a lot, in a way. More of it is directed to the fans, who are sheep to the media.

Everybody is criticized and unless your perfect on a high standard fans put you on... your going to be deemed a failure. Sure, the past greats have had bad games (some a lot more than others), but at the end of the day they were recognized.

I often wonder if the media NEVER compared guys like Kobe/LeBron/Wade, etc... to a former great like Michael Jordan or if they came before the 80s and 90s legends, they would be much more respected.

I don't think I have ever stated this before, but if Kobe played around the 70s-80s, like Dr. J did, he would be much more respected by his peers and historians of the game. It's not like Erving is a good guy either in his off-court life, as he refused to acknowledge his child for years, similar to Karl Malone. Kobe, with the Colorado incident, I see no different in both style and off-court life style.

[Round Mound]

His Passing Was Very Good But Not Great (Magic and Bird where Better). Other Than That The Dude Was The SG Perfection In Terms of the Mixture of Athletic Ability, Quickness, Power, Strength, Agility, Speed and Those With Skills. Body Wise He Was The Strongest SG Ever (Horry has said this, Magic has said this) and Foot Quickness Only Rivaled by Guys like Isiah or Iverson (Drexler said he was the Quickest). His Ferocity On Court Can Only Be Matched By Bird IMO. He Was A Lock Down Defender and The Best Skill Set in Terms of Offense, Attacking the Rim, Post Play, Mid Range Shooting etc for a SG.

He is Atleast The Greatest Perimeter Player Ever

BTW: I Hated MJ More Than Anyone Here

[Money 23]

LeBron has been efficient as always, but he's also been hitting threes at a great clip.
His jumper is probably the nicest it's been in his entire career. So smooth. That long range pull up jumper he put on Houston was bonkers. He put in work this summer. Clearly.

He's also benefitting from teams playing him in regards to his shot selection last year, they are begging him to shoot the three by sagging off him. They are deathly afraid of what he can do when he gets into the teeth of the defense.

That's when LeBron can be a one man wrecking crew. He can throw it down on you, draw fouls, dish it with his amazing court awareness and passing ability.

I think the best representation for someone's shooting ability is free throw percentage. Keep an eye on that to see if LeBron improves this season.


BTW Swoosh, first year you ever watched NBA?
Memory is slightly hazy as to the exact moment when I started watching. But it was when I was 4 years old, so late '89 and early 1990-ish.

From around 1991 was when I knew what I was watching. And each year you obviously get more intelligent about the game.

By 8 or 9 I was confident in knowing a lot about the game and the league as a whole.

What about you, bro?

[RRR3]

His jumper is probably the nicest it's been in his entire career. So smooth. That long range pull up jumper he put on Houston was bonkers. He put in work this summer. Clearly.

He's also benefitting from teams playing him in regards to his shot selection last year, they are begging him to shoot the three by sagging off him. They are deathly afraid of what he can do when he gets into the teeth of the defense.

That's when LeBron can be a one man wrecking crew. He can throw it down on you, draw fouls, dish it with his amazing court awareness and passing ability.

I think the best representation for someone's shooting ability is free throw percentage. Keep an eye on that to see if LeBron improves this season.


Memory is slightly hazy as to the exact moment when I started watching. But it was when I was 4 years old, so late '89 and early 1990-ish.
Free throws can be weird, T-Mac was only average at them and he could light it up from 3 in his prime. I think part of that was he didn't work on his FT enough.


Two more things:
Ever seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1mOOee53Ak?
And what do you think of D12 wearing a headband? Trying to be Wilt?



As for me, I've always been more of an MLB guy until recently. I've always like NBA since around the time I started getting into baseball (2002 might have been first time I paid attention to NBA), but since we never had cable I only saw a few games in the regular season and the playoffs when I felt like watching. I made sure to see T-Mac when I could. Earliest series I remember following closely was the 2006 NBA finals, although I remember some of the Pistons runs vaguely. Vaguely remember MJ as a Wizard, think I caught a few minutes of him maybe once or twice. I'm pretty sure I watched the entire 2009 and 2010 finals, as well, and remember the playoffs from that year. But I Really got into NBA during 2011 playoffs (first time I started to go more towards NBA over MLB), watched NBA obsessively last year and so far this year. I've learned a lot, and realized I was relying too much on stats in the past and have changed a lot of my opinions because of it. I'm trying to become a better fan due to all this. Still wish we had a team in STL.

[Money 23]

Ever seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1mOOee53Ak?
Yes, I remember the entire playoff series.

MJ going off for 32 point halves (TWICE) and not having the wind to keep the pace up

And then Luc Longely blowing a wide open dunk / lay-up to tie the series off a game winning / tying assist from MJ.

:facepalm


And what do you think of D12 wearing a headband? Trying to be Wilt?
He looks goofy with a head band. Same way Kobe and T-Mac looked stupid with it when they did it.

[Sharmer]

Read his post on the previous page. He considers Jordan is the GOAT. He's not arguing that, he's arguing the fact that some people act like he is literal light years ahead of guys like Larry Bird and Kareem.

Thanks for clearing this up, just my thoughts on the subject.

MJ is substantially statistically better than Bird, Kareem on the other hand is significantly under rated.

Is MJ over rated?

This is really a very subjective question. However by definition, you would think that the GOAT be would have to be substantially better then the rest. Therefore its only logical that MJ peers view him to clearly better than any else who played the game.

I think by definition, GOAT has to be viewed to be the clear number 1. Therefore I don't believe MJ is overrated.

[VegasLakerFan]

I think you mean you wonder how Kobe / LeBron would be perceived if the internet weren't around.

And it's fascinating to think about. We are in the age of cynicism. Whether it's sports, or entertainment. The internet gives everyone a voice, even if they are wrong or contrarian for the sake of it.

In Jordan's time, it was the peak for television / cable viewing. We tuned into the NBA on NBCs, the TNTs, the TBS, the WGNs and Sports Channels and were just in awe. People were generally more positive as a whole.

People critique LeBron's 2011 Finals collapse. Magic had a similar collapse, but with out an internet around giving voice to his haters ... we didn't get memes and constant jokes about it.

Bird has played poorly in Finals. MJ didn't play up to his god like standards in the '96 Finals, and in some circles could be considered a bad series. But there was no popular internet or ISH or countless sports shows critiquing over critiquing performances.

Kobe shot poorly in his game 7 in the 2010 Finals, I know for a fact I've seen other superstars (Jordan included) with similar bad games, maybe not in the Finals, but at the very least playoffs.

The internet age has definitely soured our perceptions on certain things, and current greatness.

You can see it happening w/ LeBron right now. He's for my money, the best player I've seen since Jordan, and even on a message board of people who claim to be fans of the game, he still gets un-fairly ripped apart.

And believe me, he deserved his criticisms in 2010 and 2011, but now? There isn't a leg to stand on in regards to cynicism when it comes to obvious greatness. A legend is un-folding in front of us, and some people are blinded by hate, typing out meaningless essays putting him down, while ignoring the once in a lifetime talent in front of their eyes.

As a fan of the game, it is sad to watch. Jordan / Magic / Bird / Isiah Thomas were never this criticized in media or in barber shops as today's legends are on the internet.

Well, your first sentence is correct as well, but I would still be interested to see how they would be seen as well in their primes, but GREAT post.

[Mr. Jabbar]

OMG this thread title is so catchy, I know its a sh1thole in here, just can't stop clicking it :mad:

[RedBlackAttack]

but sometimes I hate the impact MJ had on the game of basketball and fans alike. Don't get me wrong, he was great, one of the greatest ever, but I just cannot accept how overrated dude is. It's getting to point where anything outside of the three point shooting cannot be argued against him.

I've heard people say he was quicker/faster than Iverson, the strongest guard in NBA history, better passer than any non-PG outside of Bird,etc...etc... the list goes on.

You cant have it both ways, if dude was so great...then how come he only has six titles to his name.

Sometimes I think dudes really think that Space Jam was game 6 of the 96 NBA Finals or something, because people have this immensely distorted view of basketball players.

I just believe that almost any great player can give another a run for their money. We've seen rookie Iverson do DAMAGE to Jordan and his teammates, think he scored 44 that night. Not sure. Might be completely wrong lol. My point is that if you put two greats/legends in their prime and put them on opposite teams, they will go at it and battle. Jordan isn't this Greek God of basketball that cannot be challenged. As great as he is, he's overrated in some circles.

Unless you lived through it, in real-time, you can't truly understand his greatness or his impact. Being a fan of a team he used to torture, there has never been anything remotely close. Not then, not now.

[guy]

I think you mean you wonder how Kobe / LeBron would be perceived if the internet weren't around.

And it's fascinating to think about. We are in the age of cynicism. Whether it's sports, or entertainment. The internet gives everyone a voice, even if they are wrong or contrarian for the sake of it.

In Jordan's time, it was the peak for television / cable viewing. We tuned into the NBA on NBCs, the TNTs, the TBS, the WGNs and Sports Channels and were just in awe. People were generally more positive as a whole.

People critique LeBron's 2011 Finals collapse. Magic had a similar collapse, but with out an internet around giving voice to his haters ... we didn't get memes and constant jokes about it.

Bird has played poorly in Finals. MJ didn't play up to his god like standards in the '96 Finals, and in some circles could be considered a bad series. But there was no popular internet or ISH or countless sports shows critiquing over critiquing performances.

Kobe shot poorly in his game 7 in the 2010 Finals, I know for a fact I've seen other superstars (Jordan included) with similar bad games, maybe not in the Finals, but at the very least playoffs.

The internet age has definitely soured our perceptions on certain things, and current greatness.

You can see it happening w/ LeBron right now. He's for my money, the best player I've seen since Jordan, and even on a message board of people who claim to be fans of the game, he still gets un-fairly ripped apart.

And believe me, he deserved his criticisms in 2010 and 2011, but now? There isn't a leg to stand on in regards to cynicism when it comes to obvious greatness. A legend is un-folding in front of us, and some people are blinded by hate, typing out meaningless essays putting him down, while ignoring the once in a lifetime talent in front of their eyes.

As a fan of the game, it is sad to watch. Jordan / Magic / Bird / Isiah Thomas were never this criticized in media or in barber shops as today's legends are on the internet.

Although you are right of course that the media has a hand in magnifying today's stars criticism, Lebron and Kobe have definitely warranted more criticism then Jordan did regardless. First of all, no one really cares about the regular season that much unless its indicative of their playoff performances i.e. Lebron up until last year. Second, there blunders have been significantly bigger then Jordan's. In Kobe's case, there's the 2004 Finals where it looked like he was shooting for the Finals MVP, 2006 game 7 vs. Phoenix where he stopped shooting, 2008 game 4 vs. Boston where they came back from 24 points, 2010 Finals game 7 where he shot 6/24, and 2011 where they got swept as the favorites. In Lebron's case, there's 2010 vs. Boston specifically game 5 where he basically quit and the 2011 Finals where he basically quit again the whole series. There's really nothing Jordan has done that is as bad as any of the above except for maybe that 1989 ECF game 5 vs. the Pistons that some people bring up here, and even that might be overblown and either way it was only 1 game.

And overall, both haven't been relatively good Finals performers i.e. Kobe has maybe 2 (maybe 3) out of 7 Finals where he performed up to his standards, Lebron only has 1 out of 3 Finals. Jordan on the other hand has about 5 out of 6 Finals where he performed up to his standards, and the first 3 were arguably even above his standards.

So yes, you're right that their criticism is magnified by today's media. But at the same time, its not really that hard for a fan or any media member to look into Jordan's career with more detail and try to find events to give him the same kind of criticism that Kobe and Lebron have received in the past for certain events, and I'm sure some of them have. But we don't see them come up cause there really aren't nearly that many.