Mark Cuban Destroying Skip Bayless And and Steven A Smith

[shaq's--lakers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv2jqFd2-qI

Thank u Mark :applause:

Screaming A Smith

http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-cuban-stephen-a-first-take-2012-6

[bmulls]

That was so awesome. Mark Cuban comes on there wearing a god damn smurf t shirt and just destroys Skip Bayless.

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll: omg this is awesome :applause:

[Skywalker]

lmaooooo

"you have the presumption that people care what you say, they don't"

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Mark completely took them both to school. Props to him.

[kidachi]

Thanks Mark Cuban!

but honestly, anyone of us could've shut Skip up.. Skip's arguments are just idiotic..

[Rake2204]

I am regretful for not being able to watch YouTube clips right now. This certainly peaks my interest. The article mentioned a quote about Cuban suggesting his two year old could break down game tape the way ESPN analysts do. I am so glad someone stepped up to the plate and said something to this affect.

I like analysis when it's necessary, useful, and applicable. I don't like analysis when there's nothing of note to analyze. It seems regardless of what takes place in an NBA game, ESPN or NBA TV analysts are always ready and willing to give their extended, scripted takes of how, "Denver was able to get into the lane because they did a good job of penetrating and getting to the basket."

[arifgokcen]

I hate skip but cuban has to acknowledge that lebron playing that bad wasnt just because of their defense.Mentally heat especially lebron werent ready.Of course they didnt execute the plays well however there is a mental part to the game too

[Noob Saibot]

who cares about Skip Brainless. Anybody can take this clown to school on basketball.

[Kurosawa0]

Cuban is right. We so often get into the drama of the game. I remember earlier in the year LeBron missed a three against Golden State and everyone fell into the narrative of LeBron being a choker. No one ever mentioned that David Lee defended the shot very well.

Dallas played some great defense and LeBron didn't play well. Maybe that's it and it doesn't require running a player down every day for a year.

By the way, Skip Bayless owes LeBron James some money.

[guy]

I hate skip but cuban has to acknowledge that lebron playing that bad wasnt just because of their defense.Mentally heat especially lebron werent ready.Of course they didnt execute the plays well however there is a mental part to the game too

Yes everything else was on point but that was stupid on his part. He kind of sounded like he was trying to prop up his own team by saying it was pretty much all their defense. I've said it before that if people seriously think Lebron's underperformance was 100% attributed to the Dallas D, then that defense is the greatest of all time because there is absolutely no defense that has been able to hold down a star player that greatly below their normal play.

[Inactive]

Skip, and Steven A. Smith aren't basketball analysts. They just come up with fan narratives, and try to get people emotionally worked up. There's nothing wrong with that, and it will probably always sell better than real analysis. It would be nice to see a coaches perspective on games represented, as an alternative. Some percentage of fans want to see the finer details analyzed, and gain more insight into the thinking behind the decisions made throughout the game. I'd like to see more commentary and debate on both broad coaching strategies, and finer tactical decisions made by the players.

[ThePointGuard11]

:oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:

:applause:

[AngelEyes]

Skip, and Steven A. Smith aren't basketball analysts. They just come up with fan narratives, and try to get people emotionally worked up. There's nothing wrong with that, and it will probably always sell better than real analysis. It would be nice to see a coaches perspective on games represented, as an alternative. Some percentage of fans want to see the finer details analyzed, and gain more insight into the thinking behind the decisions made throughout the game. I'd like to see more commentary and debate on both broad coaching strategies, and finer tactical decisions made by the players.

They're whores.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I don't see him sonning Stephan A Smith anywhere. Skip only.

[Batz]

I hate Skip too, but Cuban was wrong on several points. But Dallas does deserve credit for their defense. OKC did try to run similar defensive schemes, but were not experienced enough to do so. But to say that Lebron wasn't mentally absent last year, is just stupid. And to say that Lebron doesn't care about what Skip Bayless or high members of the media say, then he's ten times the stupid. It's all he cares about. It's such pressures that made him struggle, and such pressures that pushed him to getting the championship this year. He's right on some points, the media standards are twisted and generalized. They do not have a specific point, and nitpick like crazy.

"you have the presumption that people care what you say, they don't"
I really hate this line. Because we do care. Everyone does. If no one did, no one here would be clapping like seals during this interview, Cuban wouldn't be putting on a fake smart ass act to prove a point to Bayless, and Lebron wouldn't be taking up meditation and reading. Media has huge effects on all us, to say they don't is ignorant. Skip Bayless and his methodology are wrong in every sense, but for Cuban to put on such an act, it's just pathetic to me personally.

I am regretful for not being able to watch YouTube clips right now. This certainly peaks my interest. The article mentioned a quote about Cuban suggesting his two year old could break down game tape the way ESPN analysts do. I am so glad someone stepped up to the plate and said something to this affect.

I like analysis when it's necessary, useful, and applicable. I don't like analysis when there's nothing of note to analyze. It seems regardless of what takes place in an NBA game, ESPN or NBA TV analysts are always ready and willing to give their extended, scripted takes of how, "Denver was able to get into the lane because they did a good job of penetrating and getting to the basket."
Yeah ESPN's analytical team is absolutely laughable. But they make millions, they're doing something right.

[Rake2204]

I hate Skip too, but Cuban was wrong on several points. But Dallas does deserve credit for their defense. OKC did try to run similar defensive schemes, but were not experienced enough to do so. But to say that Lebron wasn't mentally absent last year, is just stupid. And to say that Lebron doesn't care about what Skip Bayless or high members of the media say, then he's ten times the stupid. It's all he cares about. It's such pressures that made him struggle, and such pressures that pushed him to getting the championship this year. He's right on some points, the media standards are twisted and generalized. They do not have a specific point, and nitpick like crazy.

I really hate this line. Because we do care. Everyone does. If no one did, no one here would be clapping like seals during this interview, Cuban wouldn't be putting on a fake smart ass act to prove a point to Bayless, and Lebron wouldn't be taking up meditation and reading. Media has huge effects on all us, to say they don't is ignorant. Skip Bayless and his methodology are wrong in every sense, but for Cuban to put on such an act, it's just pathetic to me personally.

Yeah ESPN's analytical team is absolutely laughable. But they make millions, they're doing something right.
I think "not caring" in this case could more closely be associated with, "not finding one's words to be useful". To further illustrate, I find Smith and Bayless' acts to be deplorable. As such, I do not watch anything they are involved in. However, surely I care. I care that they are so bad and I care for them to stop. But by no means do I care in the sense that I want to hear what they're saying nor do I care to believe that what they're saying has an affect on anything.

I'm certain many players are affected by the media, but I wouldn't believe they're affected evenly by all members of the media. For instance, I'd likely take a critical, but well thought out and well reasoned article to heart if I were a player. On the flip side, I'd be annoyed with the wild talking heads, but I'd dismiss them. I certainly wouldn't take anything to heart (correction, I'd take the sad state of American television that allows these heads to spew nonsense every minute of every day to heart).

I'll have to watch the clips in order to make a true judgment on the reference to Dallas' defense against LeBron. At this point, I think I'd side with Dallas' defense. If Miami faced a squad that didn't offer what the Mavericks did on the defensive side of the ball, I don't really have any doubts LeBron James would have welcomed the opportunity to wreck his way to a ring (like he did this year). Mentally he could have gone off the deep end, but I believe it's because Dallas pushed him. It's similar to Kobe Bryant in '04. There's a reason he was taking and missing horrible shots and it wasn't just because he was trying to make a point. It's because Detroit's defense led him to that faulty conclusion.

[PBJ_Time]

Awesome!:oldlol:

[TMT]

Skip is such a bad debater most of the time. When he knows he's wrong he starts to nod his head and agree with the other person and then gets off the subject. :oldlol:

The whole "effort matters more than assets" argument is absolute crap though.

[oolalaa]

So Dallas' defensive schemes were the reason that Lebron was abominally pathetic in the 4th quarters last year??? Are you kidding me, Cuban?? What a dumbass. :cletus:

I'll make a note to ignore you when you talk basketball from now on.


And :roll: at Cuban effectively saying that all players "Want it" at an exact equal amount. No, some players are more driven to win than others - that's what seperate the great from the merely very good.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So Dallas' defensive schemes were the reason that Lebron was abominally pathetic in the 4th quarters last year??? Are you kidding me, Cuban?? What a dumbass. :cletus:

I'll make a note to ignore you when you talk basketball from now on.

Cuban is a giant douchebag. Anyone remember him getting into a heated confrontation with Kenyon Martin and his mom? :roll:

[howlin_wolf]

Damn, that was rape!

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/juliabricklin/files/2012/01/cuban.jpg

[eeeeeebro]

This is classic and realy shows how smart mark cuban is i respect dallas mavericks more now than ever

[oolalaa]

Cuban is a giant douchebag. Anyone remember him getting into a heated confrontation with Kenyon Martin and his mom? :roll:

Haha, no. You'll have to enlighten me :D

[R.I.P.]

So Dallas' defensive schemes were the reason that Lebron was abominally pathetic in the 4th quarters last year??? Are you kidding me, Cuban?? What a dumbass. :cletus:

Of course they were. Boston used the same tactics successfully this year in the Conference finals, a lot of switches between zone and man-to-man. It worked till Bosh returned to the line-up and Rivers thought it was a great idea to have Bass chase Bron around 18 feet away from the basket. That and Boston with their six man rotation ran out of gas, while Dallas could throw all kinds of people at the Heat. Mahinmi, their 3rd string center is an excellent zone defender. Additionally the Mavs gradually wore down the Heat with their great ball movement and didn

[Rasheed1]

Cuban was right overall.. The way these shows are set up doesnt lend itself to actual talk about the games and what is happening and how these things decide who loses and who wins.

Its more about focusing in on Skip arguing with SAS, so Skip (being the ultimate jackass that he is) has to take it to nth degree and SAS has to yell like he is George Jefferson (someone else made that comparison on here recently....Props to them) and that creates the show. 2 knuckleheads yelling at each other with over dramatized points... It isnt about the game soo much as it is about Skip's hatred of Lebron and SAS calling him on it all playoffs..

But now what for Skip? The gig is up now, and skip takes a hit for this... He needs to find a new gimmick, because this show is built on a gimmick that just got upended.

[oolalaa]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Of course they were. Boston used the same tactics successfully this year in the Conference finals, a lot of switches between zone and man-to-man. It worked till Bosh returned to the line-up and Rivers thought it was a great idea to have Bass chase Bron around 18 feet away from the basket. That and Boston with their six man rotation ran out of gas, while Dallas could throw all kinds of people at the Heat. Mahinmi, their 3rd string center is an excellent zone defender. Additionally the Mavs gradually wore down the Heat with their great ball movement and didn

[westsideozzie]

The reason why Lebron could not post up last year is two words. Shawn Marion. Marion is a great athlete who played the four in Phoenix for years against much bigger players. That combined with Lebron being ill equipped to play in the post and an athletic guy like Chandler waiting for him slowed Lebron down.

[pauk]

Skip... :facepalm The dude serves no purpose at all... but they cant afford firing him, with his tantrums and stupidity is what gives attention and viewers and popularity.....


...and Skip said: "Lebron became a jumpshooter, thats what you wanted, thats why he was bad"

Actually Skip, Lebron shot 48% FG in that series with mostly jumpshots, thats better than 95% of your boys (Kobe) Finals appearances.... the problem is that he took ridicilously few shots as they zoned him extremly well and Lebron became passive like hell as Wade was trying to be and i quote: "Leader & best player in my team" (Wades words last Finals during press conference), this 2nd fiddle all of the sudden dominates the ball more than ever and Lebron didnt complain as Wade was able to make shots... but in the 4th quarter is where all melted down, not just Lebron, but everybody, yes including Wade (especially in Game 5 & 6), Lebron was completely out of offensive rythm & role... they didnt play like this in the previous series where it was 1. Lebron 2. Everybody else...

[AK47DR91]

I don't see him sonning Stephan A Smith anywhere. Skip only.
Stephen A was smart enough to kept his mouth shut.

I love the fact that Cuban exposed Skip with the zone questions. It seems like Skip had no question what zone defense is.

[Mr Know It All]

Skip Bayless is a shock jock, he has no insight on any particular sport or player, that is why he was destroyed here. Casual fans want to hear generalizations and panic analysis though, so that is what they will get.

[heyhey]

I think SAS and skip fully realize the role they play on ESPN as pundits and shock jocks. But they do it because that's really what the public want to watch. The average ESPN viewer doesn't want to hear about adjustments and zone defense, they want to listen to things like clutch gene and batman and robin because that's easy to relate to and understand. SAS and skip are just playing to the audience.

[bagelred]

What's great about being a billionaire, is you are allowed to go on a major TV show and dress like a hobo. :pimp:

I love the Smurfs too! :rockon:

[Mr Know It All]

I think SAS and skip fully realize the role they play on ESPN as pundits and shock jocks. But they do it because that's really what the public want to watch. The average ESPN viewer doesn't want to hear about adjustments and zone defense, they want to listen to things like clutch gene and batman and robin because that's easy to relate to and understand. SAS and skip are just playing to the audience.

Exactly right.


People seem to forget how moronic the audience is. Look at the top grossing movies, look at the most popular television shows (Two and a Half Men), pandering to morons with short attention spans and no taste. This is America, in all of its glory.

[bagelred]

Exactly right.


People seem to forget how moronic the audience is. Look at the top grossing movies, look at the most popular television shows (Two and a Half Men), pandering to morons with short attention spans and no taste. This is America, in all of its glory.

Exactly!!! This country is filled with a bunch of morons!!! I won't partake in that stupidity..........


Now if you'll excuse me, I have 4:00 tickets to see Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter......gotta get going..........

[Inactive]

Exactly right.


People seem to forget how moronic the audience is. Look at the top grossing movies, look at the most popular television shows (Two and a Half Men), pandering to morons with short attention spans and no taste. This is humanity, in all of its glory.:(

[Mr Know It All]

Exactly!!! This country is filled with a bunch of morons!!! I won't partake in that stupidity..........


Now if you'll excuse me, I have 4:00 tickets to see Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter......gotta get going..........

Don't get me wrong, I'm not so cultured that I don't enjoy some stupid fun once in a while as well. However some people take Skip and Stephen A as gospel and they need to be silenced.

Heard that movie is very disappointing BTW. I thought it looked like a dumb fun movie but apparently it drops the ball big time.

[Timmy D for MVP]

"Why do you play a zone Skip?"

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mr Know It All]

I think Skip legitimately did not know what a zone was.

[Pushxx]

How about Skip lying about his high school basketball experience? Someone should post the stats and the video where he gets called out.

Here is one of the videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-3EkBmodM

LOL it's so funny to see Skip flounder.

[Figlo]

I hate Skip too, but Cuban was wrong on several points. But Dallas does deserve credit for their defense. OKC did try to run similar defensive schemes, but were not experienced enough to do so. But to say that Lebron wasn't mentally absent last year, is just stupid. And to say that Lebron doesn't care about what Skip Bayless or high members of the media say, then he's ten times the stupid. It's all he cares about. It's such pressures that made him struggle, and such pressures that pushed him to getting the championship this year. He's right on some points, the media standards are twisted and generalized. They do not have a specific point, and nitpick like crazy.

I really hate this line. Because we do care. Everyone does. If no one did, no one here would be clapping like seals during this interview, Cuban wouldn't be putting on a fake smart ass act to prove a point to Bayless, and Lebron wouldn't be taking up meditation and reading. Media has huge effects on all us, to say they don't is ignorant. Skip Bayless and his methodology are wrong in every sense, but for Cuban to put on such an act, it's just pathetic to me personally.

Yeah ESPN's analytical team is absolutely laughable. But they make millions, they're doing something right.


STFU, quit talking as if you got some inside knowledge about LeBron lol

[DCL]

cuban pretty much raped skip bayless's assho!e live on national tv.

[MannyO]

I didn't read the previous posts so excuse me if I say something that was already mentioned.

I watched First Take this morning and I did not see him taking anybody to school (he may have won a few arguments with Skip but thats about it).

This guy sat there and said that the Mavs defense was completely responsible for stopping Lebron in 4th qtrs of that series. That is right to an extend but are you telling me a 6'8 260lb 3 time MVP skilled freak of nature was completely shut down in the 4th by a weak Mavs D? Cmon. Lebron clearly fell to the pressure (which Cuban believes doesn't effect player because I guess their not humans).

He also said its not about who wants it more its about execution. Wrong once again, as you can see in Game 5 Miami wanted it more than they wanted their next breathe, and played like it. They were obviously fueled by adrenaline (esp Mike Miller who was resurrected from the dead). That propelled them to win it all.

Cuban also said stats don't mean anything. Are you serious? This guy made a fool of himself.

[KevinNYC]

Thanks Mark Cuban!

but honestly, anyone of us could've shut Skip up.. Skip's arguments are just idiotic..

But they are delivered with such conviction. Idiots who are convinced they are right are pretty hard shut up.

[Rake2204]

I just had an opportunity to watch the video. I would be okay with folks like Skip Bayless being on TV as long as there was someone always present to keep them in check with reality, as Mark Cuban did here; strip the ignorant of their power. This was relatively glorious to watch.

[oolalaa]

A quick point on Skip Bayless - the amount of hate he receives is far too excessive.

He doesn't use a lot of logic when talking about sports. That is what people seem to get annoyed about. When he was a 'one man Lebron bashing band' for the first 7/8 years of Bron's career, it was completely illogical. I mean, the guy was putting up some truly absurd numbers. He was CARRYING a pretty mediocre team. He chucked up one of the greatest playoff games of all time in only his 4th season. He had 45 points in a game 7 against Boston in '08. He had an unbelievable series against Orlando in '09.

But Skip could see past all that. He didn't like what he saw. He felt something was missing. He used his GUT and was proven unequivocally right. Thats how Skip Bayless judges sports - he uses his GUT feel, and, you know what, I'm fine with that because he is right most of the time....and entertaining along the way.

[Kblaze8855]

Mark Cuban knows something about basketball. Skip knows how to get attention on tv.

[oolalaa]

Mark Cuban knows something about basketball. Skip knows how to get attention on tv.

Did you even watch the video? Cuban effectively said that Dallas' defensive schemes were the reason for Lebron's pathetic 4th quarters in last years finals....with a straight face.

If I was kind, I would say that his bias coloured his perception, but I'm not - Cuban is a moron.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Haha that last line sums it up. Well Mr. skip bayless in Dallas were smart defense. In OKC they a bunch of ****ing tards.

[Kblaze8855]

He said that you cant say Lebron did ____ or ____ without considering the defense being played and what they were forcing him to do. Which is correct. But people want to talk about mythical issues and such as if basketball reasons arent at the heart of it. Lebron was 5-19 and 6-17 vs dallas in the regular season that year. But people like Skip who dont care to discuss basketball pretend its finals pressure that made him suddenly fall apart.

Skip almost never has anything to say about basketball. He answers a repeated question about the thunder scheme to stop Lebron in the post by saying "They tried Thabo on him...and...uh".

He just comes off as an entertainer who cant talk ball.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

He said that you cant say Lebron did ____ or ____ without considering the defense being played and what they were forcing him to do. Which is correct. But people want to talk about mythical issues and such as if basketball reasons arent at the heart of it. Lebron was 5-19 and 7-17 vs dallas in the regular season that year. But people like Skip who dont care to discuss basketball pretend its finals pressure that made him suddenly fall apart.

Skip almost never has anything to say about basketball. He answers a repeated question about the thunder scheme to stop Lebron in the post by saying "They tried Thabo on him...and...uh".

He just comes off as an entertainer who cant talk ball.
I think Cuban is right. OKC's overall team defense is pretty much a joke. And it stems from the fact that they are all really stupid including their coach.

[Foster5k]

owned.

[KevinNYC]

This guy sat there and said that the Mavs defense was completely responsible for stopping Lebron in 4th qtrs of that series. That is right to an extend but are you telling me a 6'8 260lb 3 time MVP skilled freak of nature was completely shut down in the 4th by a weak Mavs D? Cmon. Lebron clearly fell to the pressure (which Cuban believes doesn't effect player because I guess their not humans).


There's the problem with your argument. You really don't understand how good the 2011 Dallas defense was and in particular how well their zone matched up against Miami. They were the 8th ranked defense in the league and given a 7 game series, they are able to continually adjust their defense to get even better. They also didn't foul much, they were 3rd in league in free throws per shots attempted.

Dallas played a great team defense and they had a legitimate defensive presence at the rim with Tyson Chandler. They had athletes like Shawn Marion and Deshawn Stevenson and even Jason Kidd with the height to give some trouble to Lebron. They also use a great scheme to hide their weaker defender's, so guys like Dirk can avoid foul trouble and they weren't predictable as a defense. They would switch from man to man to 2-3 so often the offense couldn't get used to it. They also have fantastic coaches. Carlisle and defensive assistant Dwanye Casey created very tricky and deceptive defensive scheme (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/mavericks/2011-06-08-mavericks-zone-defense-dallas_n.htm) that relied on switching often.


In an 86-83 Dallas victory in Game 4, however, the Mavs resorted to a more loosely called zone. Instead of predetermining its use, they called it in "flow," much like their less-structured offensive scheme.
That makes it more difficult for the Heat to figure out.
"Our zone is good when we do it in flow. When we set up like that, they're too talented," said Dallas guard DeShawn Stevenson, one of the team's best defenders. "We got into zone off of flow. When they're bringing the ball down, they don't have time to set up their offense."

Heres some quotes I found when googling "2011 mavericks defense."


In an 86-83 Dallas victory in Game 4, however, the Mavs resorted to a more loosely called zone. Instead of predetermining its use, they called it in "flow," much like their less-structured offensive scheme.
That makes it more difficult for the Heat to figure out.
"Our zone is good when we do it in flow. When we set up like that, they're too talented," said Dallas guard DeShawn Stevenson, one of the team's best defenders. "We got into zone off of flow. When they're bringing the ball down, they don't have time to set up their offense."


Once Dallas is in the half-court defensively, they rely on a rotation-based man to man defense with doses of their 2-3 zone sprinkled in. While the 2-3 look is the base, it essentially morphs into a match-up zone due to the NBA defensive 3-second rules. They rarely use it for an extended period of time and tend to employ it on dead balls or after timeouts for a handful of possessions.

They have great positional flexibility with both Kidd and Marion able to guard at least three different positions. Neither are what they used to be, but this flexibility allows Dallas to hide some of their weaker defenders easier against non-threats. Given their size in the front court, they look to funnel teams toward the middle of the floor with their pick and roll coverage due to the ability to consistently have a shot-blocking threat protecting the rim at the center position.


Overall, the Mavericks defensive scheme is a very heady one that takes advantage of the veteran nature of the team. The team moves seamlessly in and out different defenses, rotates effectively, and switches actions between two similar-sized players (Kidd-Stevenson, Barea-Terry, etc) with cool efficiency. Carlisle doesn’t have a team full of dominating defenders, but has done everything in his power to make sure his team stays competitive on the defensive end of the floor.


Dallas has also managed to force the basketball into the hands of Miami’s role players much more frequently when defending with the zone. During the regular season the Heat’s Big Three accounted for just over 64% of the team’s total possessions. This mark drops to 55% when facing the Mavs’ blanketing zone approach. This may not seem like a significant change, but based on the Heat’s pace of play, it works out to a difference of more than eight possessions per game that the ball is going to say Mike Bibby or Mike Miller rather than James, Wade or Chris Bosh. Over the course of a seven game series that expects to be hotly contested, this is pretty significant......The data indicates that the Heat will need their role players – specifically their perimeter shooters – to step up and make shots.


Dallas Mavericks Amazing Team Defense Key to Success in 2011 NBA Finals

The D in Dallas stands for Defense. That is what has been winning them this series against the star-studded Miami Heat. If they continue to play at this level, the Mavs D will bring home the first title in franchise history.

Not to take away from Nowitzki’s timeless offensive performance, but the Mavericks defense has been the real star for them this series. Their ability to pester the Miami Heat superstars is uncanny and the reason they are ahead 3-2 in the series.

They run a man-to-man defense that can switch to a zone at a moments notice if the situation calls for it. They also excel at taking charges and bringing help defense when an attacker gets to the paint. They also are able to get crucial stops when they need to, allowing them to make amazing comebacks on the other end.

It wasn't the pressure of the Finals that took Lebron out of the game (that was a small part of it.) He got frustrated because nothing he was doing was working well and once Dallas D took away his first options, he didn't have enough weapons to compensate. That's why he worked on his post game in the off-season to give him more options and make it harder on the defense.

If you get caught up in Player personality analysis, you don't understand why Dallas won and why Cuban schooled Bayliss.

[oolalaa]

He said that you cant say Lebron did ____ or ____ without considering the defense being played and what they were forcing him to do. Which is correct. But people want to talk about mythical issues and such as if basketball reasons arent at the heart of it. Lebron was 5-19 and 6-17 vs dallas in the regular season that year. But people like Skip who dont care to discuss basketball pretend its finals pressure that made him suddenly fall apart.

Skip almost never has anything to say about basketball. He answers a repeated question about the thunder scheme to stop Lebron in the post by saying "They tried Thabo on him...and...uh".

He just comes off as an entertainer who cant talk ball.

Uh oh, here it comes. The rewriting of the 2011 NBA finals has officially begun....

:hammerhead:

[CavaliersFTW]

this is the followup discussion after Cuban left - listen to these guys trying to justify their existence after getting exposed :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53gzR36zd2c

[bigdaddyfunk]

Lol this is gold

[R.I.P.]

Skip what kind of zone defense did they play?

Thabo. :lol

No Skip what kind of specific defense?

Ibaka Suppose. :lol

[R.I.P.]

I think Skip just didn

[pauk]

Poor bastard...

[no pun intended]

Damn, Cuban is one intelligent speaker.

[Godzuki]

i agree with what Steven A was saying in that second clip. you can't go through all of what Cuban expects breaking down every play, a lot of times you have to just summarize it to a generality, that Cuban was complaining about. he did tear up Skip Bayless and made him look dumb, but Steven A imo made a legit point. besides most viewers aren't going to want to watch all of the X's and O's more than just a spoonfed summary.

[Rake2204]

Damn, Cuban is one intelligent speaker.
The terribly unfortunate thing is, I'm not sure Mark Cuban was a very intelligent speaker in this case. I mean, he's obviously a self-made rich man for a reason, but he wasn't exactly breaking down nuclear physics here. And to be clear, that's not a knock on Cuban; rather, it's a testament to how ridiculous these sort of shows really are. All it takes is someone speaking with a base in logic to knock the ridiculous folk off their perch.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

i agree with what Steven A was saying in that second clip. you can't go through all of what Cuban expects breaking down every play, a lot of times you have to just summarize it to a generality, that Cuban was complaining about. he did tear up Skip Bayless and made him look dumb, but Steven A imo made a legit point. besides most viewers aren't going to want to watch all of the X's and O's more than just a spoonfed summary.
Skip doesn't even know the X's or the O' though, lol. I really don't even think he watches the games. I think he just checks out the box score. If Lebron doesn't score in the 4th then it's a total choke.

[necya]

The terribly unfortunate thing is, I'm not sure Mark Cuban is a very intelligent speaker. I mean, he's obviously a self-made rich man for a reason, but he wasn't exactly breaking down nuclear physics here. And to be clear, that's not a knock on Cuban; rather, it's a testament to how ridiculous these sort of shows really are. All it takes is someone speaking with a base in logic to knock someone off their perch.

i agree with you.
damn, i would need a 2nd life to teach Bayless basketball

[-p.tiddy-]

:bowdown: Cuban

GOAT owner

[T-Time3]

stephen a remains SILENCE
lmao

[Euroleague]

Mark Cuban is a greedy, ego-maniacal, narcissist.

This forum just hit an all-time low, with this thread's Cuban nut riding.

[-p.tiddy-]

Marc Cuban is a greedy, ego-maniacal, narcissist.

This forum just hit an all-time low, with this thread's Cuban nut riding.
that describes every single player in the NBA

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Mark Cuban is a greedy, ego-maniacal, narcissist.

This forum just hit an all-time low, with this thread's Cuban nut riding.
skip bayless gets paid 500,000$ a year for pretending to watch basketball games. :coleman:

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Uh oh, here it comes. The rewriting of the 2011 NBA finals has officially begun....

:hammerhead:So Kblaze makes some arguments backs it up with some proof and you responsible with nothing at all... Sounds like someone this thread was made about.

[Real Men Wear Green]

But now what for Skip? The gig is up now, and skip takes a hit for this... He needs to find a new gimmick, because this show is built on a gimmick that just got upended.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gp/Tim+Tebow+Janell+Wheeler+dating+XNl-blx1-S0l.jpg

[MannyO]

There's the problem with your argument. You really don't understand how good the 2011 Dallas defense was and in particular how well their zone matched up against Miami. They were the 8th ranked defense in the league and given a 7 game series, they are able to continually adjust their defense to get even better. They also didn't foul much, they were 3rd in league in free throws per shots attempted.

Dallas played a great team defense and they had a legitimate defensive presence at the rim with Tyson Chandler. They had athletes like Shawn Marion and Deshawn Stevenson and even Jason Kidd with the height to give some trouble to Lebron. They also use a great scheme to hide their weaker defender's, so guys like Dirk can avoid foul trouble and they weren't predictable as a defense. They would switch from man to man to 2-3 so often the offense couldn't get used to it. They also have fantastic coaches. Carlisle and defensive assistant Dwanye Casey created very tricky and deceptive defensive scheme (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/mavericks/2011-06-08-mavericks-zone-defense-dallas_n.htm) that relied on switching often.



Heres some quotes I found when googling "2011 mavericks defense."











It wasn't the pressure of the Finals that took Lebron out of the game (that was a small part of it.) He got frustrated because nothing he was doing was working well and once Dallas D took away his first options, he didn't have enough weapons to compensate. That's why he worked on his post game in the off-season to give him more options and make it harder on the defense.

If you get caught up in Player personality analysis, you don't understand why Dallas won and why Cuban schooled Bayliss.

Ok now I understand the defense of the was pretty decent. But C'mon he didn't just get frustrated, I hate to say it but he choked. Theres no defense that a coach can formulate that would COMPLETELY stop a superstar like Lebron James. Wasn't Dirk a part of that defensive strategy? You telling me they couldn't attack that weakness. In feel that OKC is the better defensive team and Lebron ripped it to pieces.

I did say Cuban did win a few arguments with Skip, but he did not destroy him because player personality analysis has ALOT to do with what happened. You telling me Michael Jordan would let a Dallas defense completely lock him up when the game matters most? No. Neither would have Kobe.

[bmulls]

Ok now I understand the defense of the was pretty decent. But C'mon he didn't just get frustrated, I hate to say it but he choked. Theres no defense that a coach can formulate that would COMPLETELY stop a superstar like Lebron James. Wasn't Dirk a part of that defensive strategy? You telling me they couldn't attack that weakness. In feel that OKC is the better defensive team and Lebron ripped it to pieces.

I did say Cuban did win a few arguments with Skip, but he did not destroy him because player personality analysis has ALOT to do with what happened. You telling me Michael Jordan would let a Dallas defense completely lock him up when the game matters most? No. Neither would have Kobe.

You must have missed last years playoffs :lol

[Myth]

My favorite part was when he exposed Skip for not understanding defensive schemes. Skip just starts saying who was matched up on LeBron but could not describe a simple defensive scheme even when Mark re-asked the question.

[R.I.P.]

You must have missed last years playoffs :lol

:lol

[DonDadda59]

Water Pistol Pete... JR :oldlol:

[Rasheed1]

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gp/Tim+Tebow+Janell+Wheeler+dating+XNl-blx1-S0l.jpg


:lol

[tmacattack33]

Yes everything else was on point but that was stupid on his part. He kind of sounded like he was trying to prop up his own team by saying it was pretty much all their defense. I've said it before that if people seriously think Lebron's underperformance was 100% attributed to the Dallas D, then that defense is the greatest of all time because there is absolutely no defense that has been able to hold down a star player that greatly below their normal play.

Well it wasn't ALL Dallas's defense that made Lebrons production drop so much. It was that plus the fact that Lebron had wade on his team and he is a very unselfish player and decided that are had the better matchup in that series (unlike the Boston and Chicago series) and so it was time to go to him.



Ppl act like Lebron was giving the ball up to just a random person for no reason. It was d wade... an amazing player in his own right... And if one of them was going to facilitate and one was goin to score it would be Lebron facilitating and ease scoring because lebrons the better facilitator.

[MannyO]

You must have missed last years playoffs :lol


lol oh I watched it, but Im saying Kobe still kept gunning because thats just how he is. Still got swept though lol. You get my point either way.

[josh99]

Respect to Cuban, he knows a lot about basketball. And it is true, the media is full of stereotypes and rubbish that people expect to here but things that don't actually really matter.

[JustinJDW]

Skip Bayless is a shock jock, he has no insight on any particular sport or player, that is why he was destroyed here. Casual fans want to hear generalizations and panic analysis though, so that is what they will get.


I think SAS and skip fully realize the role they play on ESPN as pundits and shock jocks. But they do it because that's really what the public want to watch. The average ESPN viewer doesn't want to hear about adjustments and zone defense, they want to listen to things like clutch gene and batman and robin because that's easy to relate to and understand. SAS and skip are just playing to the audience.

This.

[andgar923]

I actually agreed with both Cuban and Skip.

Under all of the loud obnoxiousness and cherry picking Skip usually has a valid point.

Lebron will be the first to acknowledge that he wasn't the same player last season in various aspects.

But Cuban also made some great points which it appeared that both Skip and Stephen agreed with (to some extent).

[KevinNYC]

You must have missed last years playoffs :lol

You saved me from having to write up a response.:applause:

[wang4three]

Finally someone calls these people out on their sensational, romanticized bullshit. Let's be honest here, this isn't Tolstoy or Dickens, it's ****ing sports, stop over-analyzing situations like they're some sort of great literary masterpiece.

[Fiasco]

Finally someone calls these people out on their sensational, romanticized bullshit. Let's be honest here, this isn't Tolstoy or Dickens, it's ****ing sports, stop over-analyzing situations like they're some sort of great literary masterpiece.

It's hard not to be romantic about sports.

[QUIZZLE]

I like Bayless trying to throw in these quick questions to Cuban in midst of him verbally destroying him. Cuban just casually goes on from whatever he's talking about to elaborate further more that he knows 100x more than Bayless about this game. Brilliant.

[wang4three]

It's hard not to be romantic about sports.

It is if you didn't do anything else worth value in your life.

[Cali Syndicate]

I don't like Skip but Cuban came with his guns loaded and with an agenda in mind. Skip fell right into it and obviously Cuban was ready to pounce. Cuban did put Skip in his place a number of times but Lebron faltering in the 4th last season was mainly on Lebron. However players need to know how to move without the ball and have a solid jumper in order to be successful in a zone, two aspects Lebron wasn't too adept during last season's Finals. With that said, Lebron obviously learned something from last season which is the main idea.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Mark Cuban going ham :bowdown:

[Cali Syndicate]

I think SAS and skip fully realize the role they play on ESPN as pundits and shock jocks. But they do it because that's really what the public want to watch. The average ESPN viewer doesn't want to hear about adjustments and zone defense, they want to listen to things like clutch gene and batman and robin because that's easy to relate to and understand. SAS and skip are just playing to the audience.

And you just indirectly described mainstream music.

[Vienceslav]

The notion that somebody could destroy someone on First Take is flawed to begin with.
Don

[Fiasco]

It is if you didn't do anything else worth value in your life.

It doesn't need to be literature to be sensationalized. People don't just watch sports to see which player/team is better. Romanticized moments are a byproduct of the games, not the media.

[Harison]

I enjoyed Cuban's frank speeches as much as anyone, he isnt 100% correct either. Cuban completely disregarded a major factor - psychology. Its like for him doesnt exist players mentality ranging from soft to cold-blooded killers. He also assumes everyone has an equal desire to win, or that pressure is exactly the same on everyone.

Funny thing, in reality Cuban was as wrong as Skip :oldlol:

[blazerjimmy]

Loved it!!!!

[B]

Cuban doesn't destroy Bayless because skip doesn't care if he's right or wrong

[Bladers]

so wait... cuban is trying to tell us that dallas defense made lebron score 8 points.

yes 8 points in a finals game?

Dallas defense made him average 19pts a game?

Really? why didn't this so called defense affect wade?

huh? why was wade averaging 30 a game?

[R.I.P.]

so wait... cuban is trying to tell us that dallas defense made lebron score 8 points.

yes 8 points in a finals game?

Dallas defense made him average 19pts a game?

Really? why didn't this so called defense affect wade?

huh? why was wade averaging 30 a game?

http://t.qkme.me/365921.jpg

[LA_Showtime]

I loved it, but anyone, including LeBron himself, would admit that LeBron played like a deer in the headlights. It's not that he didn't want it; he simply caved under pressure.

[mlh1981]

If I want hardcore NBA analysis, I have certain places that I turn to. When I just want mindless entertainment and to hear 2 guys screaming at one another, I turn to First Take. Long ago, ESPN got into this business of sensationalism. They want to get the ratings. People want to know what Skip Bayless has to say, because it's oftentimes amusing. Anyone who is looking for hardcore breakdown of games is gonna come away disappointed.

[schism206]

Whether you think he's right or wrong, at least Cuban is an owner who obviously cares about the game. He's more passionate about it than some players.

[fpliii]

This shit was brutal as hell when it happened (and I say that as a guy who likes listening to SAS). Cuban straight eviscerated these dudes, no way around it.

[JohnFreeman]

Stephen A with that "media can't know everything" nonsense at the end. Makes me sick.
Cuban :bowdown:

[VIntageNOvel]

link doesnt work, use this one instead, a complete package

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo

cuban would ether any poster left and right if he's join ISH

seriously, how could you win again someone much more successful than you

[ImKobe]

Stephen A with that "media can't know everything" nonsense at the end. Makes me sick.
Cuban :bowdown:

Well, they can't. Media can only report the info that the players and the coaches give them. Neither Skip nor SAS ever played/coached in the pros, they don't get all the access that Mark Cuban does, which is understandable.

I don't get people that watch the show just to diss them, they are much like a regular fan, only that they've been covering sports for decades and have better access, but they are normal people, who makes mistakes like the rest of us.

I sometimes watch the show for entertainment, loved Skip during Lebron's 1st championship run, Lebron had his huge game against Indy in the semis, and skip basically came out with "impact points" and said Wade was the true Batman and scored the important points while Bran statpadded :oldlol:

If you're watching this show for anything else other than entertainment, you're going to be disappointed.

[JohnFreeman]

Well, they can't. Media can only report the info that the players and the coaches give them. Neither Skip nor SAS ever played/coached in the pros, they don't get all the access that Mark Cuban does, which is understandable.

I don't get people that watch the show just to diss them, they are much like a regular fan, only that they've been covering sports for decades and have better access, but they are normal people, who makes mistakes like the rest of us.

I sometimes watch the show for entertainment, loved Skip during Lebron's 1st championship run, Lebron had his huge game against Indy in the semis, and skip basically came out with "impact points" and said Wade was the true Batman and scored the important points while Bran statpadded :oldlol:

If you're watching this show for anything else other than entertainment, you're going to be disappointed.
That's why I don't watch it. I like when Skip shits on Durant though.

[Dr.J4ever]

link doesnt work, use this one instead, a complete package

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo

cuban would ether any poster left and right if he's join ISH

seriously, how could you win again someone much more successful than you
Much better version with the clip from You Tube above. I don't think Skip got destroyed at all. Cuban had a good point but so did Skip. Skip was talking about levels of being desperate in a competitive situation. I believe that. Ask yourself why is it so hard to sweep a team. Is it because when a team goes up 2-0, the other team is more desperate, and the other team relaxes or loses focus, even slightly?.. That's all it takes really to get an edge.

So there are players who can "want" it more in an NBA Final in certain portions of a game or during the series. Absolutely.

[dr.hee]

Much better version with the clip from You Tube above. I don't think Skip got destroyed at all. Cuban had a good point but so did Skip. Skip was talking about levels of being desperate in a competitive situation. I believe that. Ask yourself why is it so hard to sweep a team. Is it because when a team goes up 2-0, the other team is more desperate, and the other team relaxes or loses focus, even slightly?.. That's all it takes really to get an edge.

So there are players who can "want" it more in an NBA Final in certain portions of a game or during the series. Absolutely.

Yeah, but I just don't buy into motivation being a factor deciding an NBA finals series. It's not like the Heat didn't "want it enough", or didn't "play with a sense of urgency" or all those media narratives. They were simply clueless how to execute. Just many stupid plays, but if one of those hero threes in game 2 goes in, the Mavs are trailing two games and we have an entirely different scenario. So Bayless still strikes me as a bit too simplistic for having a valid point that applies to this specific Mavs vs. Heat series.

Derrick Coleman didn't "want it". Antoine Walker didn't. J.R. Smith doesn't give a f*ck. Two teams playing for the championship? Entirely different story.

[Dr.J4ever]

Yeah, but I just don't buy into motivation being a factor deciding an NBA finals series. It's not like the Heat didn't "want it enough", or didn't "play with a sense of urgency" or all those media narratives. They were simply clueless how to execute. Just many stupid plays, but if one of those hero threes in game 2 goes in, the Mavs are trailing two games and we have an entirely different scenario. So Bayless still strikes me as a bit too simplistic for having a valid point that applies to this specific Mavs vs. Heat series.

Derrick Coleman didn't "want it". Antoine Walker didn't. J.R. Smith doesn't give a f*ck. Two teams playing for the championship? Entirely different story.
So you're saying in a Final series, everyone equally wants to win? Everyone wants to pay the price equally, wants to focus equally, and do whatever is needed to win a Title equally?

I don't think so. Everyone is built differently with different psychological backgrounds. Everyone was raised differently. Some were raised in very tough environments that "steels" an individual. You know what they say, " what doesn't kill you...." , and so everyone likes to talk tough, but deep inside not everyone is the same.

If Skip said it this way, I'm sure even Cuban will agree.

[kNIOKAS]

So you're saying in a Final series, everyone equally wants to win? Everyone wants to pay the price equally, wants to focus equally, and do whatever is needed to win a Title equally?

I don't think so. Everyone is built differently with different psychological backgrounds. Everyone was raised differently. Some were raised in very tough environments that "steels" an individual. You know what they say, " what doesn't kill you...." , and so everyone likes to talk tough, but deep inside not everyone is the same.

If Skip said it this way, I'm sure even Cuban will agree.
Oh please. Maybe NBAa players should publish their NEO PI-R results so Skip Bayless would have something to ramble and attribute basketball to.

It's the game, it's two teams competing. Focus on that.

[Dr.J4ever]

Oh please. Maybe NBAa players should publish their NEO PI-R results so Skip Bayless would have something to ramble and attribute basketball to.

It's the game, it's two teams competing. Focus on that.
I am, but it's not all Xs and Os. Psychology and desire mean a lot. People always say defense and offensive rebounding has a lot to do with desire and sacrificing your body out there.

Believe it or not, not everyone is willing to focus and put in the work to be a winner. This is why Michael Jordan is the greatest ever because he fused his great abilities and desire in one body.

So yes, in a Finals, effort can be a big thing, and "wanting it more" can mean the difference in a series.

[kNIOKAS]

I am, but it's not all Xs and Os. Psychology and desire mean a lot. People always say defense and offensive rebounding has a lot to do with desire and sacrificing your body out there.

Believe it or not, not everyone is willing to focus and put in the work to be a winner. This is why Michael Jordan is the greatest ever because he fused his great abilities and desire in one body.

So yes, in a Finals, effort can be a big thing, and "wanting it more" can mean the difference in a series.
It is a factor, yet what you hear is those guys on tv talking all about those personality traits like that is the only thing that defines the player. It's called attribution mistake, and boy that's they only thing they like to do on TV.

What is the last time you heard them talk about rebounding?

[gigantes]

holy crap, i never saw this video until just today.

watching these knuckleheads getting smeared is priceless. :rockon:

[ScalsFan21]

Skip Bayless final show on ESPN just started, they're kicking it off with an all-new topic: MJ vs. LeBron. :lol

[Xoush]

It sucks that Skip stops doing the show. I hope his replacement will be someone very antagonizing with strong opinions (but unlike SAS who just screames alot.)

[gigantes]

It sucks that Skip stops doing the show. I hope his replacement will be someone very antagonizing with strong opinions (but unlike SAS who just screames alot.)
i can't even imagine who would want to watch a shit show like that.

i think i'd rather watch three-year olds fencing with pool noodles.

[Meticode]

It sucks that Skip stops doing the show. I hope his replacement will be someone very antagonizing with strong opinions (but unlike SAS who just screames alot.)
I don't mind Skip being antagonizing, but his downright hate and even trollism towards certain players is absurd. I can't believe he went on there and said Irving deserved the MVP. No doubt, Irving had MVP-type numbers and he made the go-ahead basket in Game 7, but do we just put aside the fact LeBron led all players on both teams in points, blocks, steals, assists and rebounds? And in the last two minutes LeBron made a freethrow to make it a two possession game and a block that is quite possibly the greatest block in NBA Finals history to save the game and to keep the Warriors from going up 89-91? The very things LeBron did in the last 3 games of the Finals were the things that people said he couldn't do anymore. He was as atheletic. His jumpshot has left him. He's being passive and not aggressive. The sheer pressure alone is enough.