Vote - #1 Playoff Run of All-Time by a FMVP

[Deuce Bigalow]

NBA Finals MVP - Postseason stats

YEAR PLAYER FG% PPG RPG APG BLKPG

2012 LeBron James .500 30.3 9.7 5.6 0.7
2011 Dirk Nowitzki .485 27.7 8.1 2.5 0.6
2010 Kobe Bryant .458 29.2 6.0 5.5 0.7
2009 Kobe Bryant .457 30.2 5.3 5.5 0.9
2008 Paul Pierce .441 19.7 5.0 4.6 0.3
2007 Tony Parker .480 20.8 3.4 5.8 0.0
2006 Dwyane Wade .497 28.4 5.9 5.7 1.1
2005 Tim Duncan .464 23.6 12.4 2.7 2.3
2004 Chauncey Billups .385 16.4 3.0 5.9 0.1
2003 Tim Duncan .529 24.7 15.4 5.3 3.3
2002 Shaquille O'Neal .529 28.5 12.6 2.8 2.5
2001 Shaquille O'Neal .555 30.4 15.4 3.2 2.4
2000 Shaquille O'Neal .566 30.7 15.4 3.1 2.4
1999 Tim Duncan .511 23.2 11.5 2.8 2.6
1998 Michael Jordan .462 32.4 5.1 3.5 0.6
1997 Michael Jordan .456 31.1 7.9 4.8 0.9
1996 Michael Jordan .459 30.7 4.9 4.1 0.3
1995 Hakeem Olajuwon .531 33.0 10.3 4.5 2.8
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon .519 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0
1993 Michael Jordan .475 35.1 6.7 6.0 0.9
1992 Michael Jordan .499 34.5 6.2 5.8 0.7
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4
1990 Isiah Thomas .463 20.5 5.5 8.2 0.4
1989 Joe Dumars .455 17.6 2.6 5.6 0.1
1988 James Worthy .523 21.1 5.8 4.4 0.8
1987 Magic Johnson .539 21.8 7.7 12.2 0.4
1986 Larry Bird .517 25.9 9.3 8.2 0.6
1985 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.560 21.9 8.1 4.0 1.9
1984 Larry Bird .524 27.5 11.0 5.9 1.2
1983 Moses Malone .536 26.0 15.8 1.5 1.9
1982 Magic Johnson .529 17.4 11.3 9.3 0.2
1981 Cedric Maxwell .580 16.1 7.4 2.7 0.9
1980 Magic Johnson .518 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4
1979 Dennis Johnson .450 20.9 6.1 4.1 1.5
1978 Westley Unseld .530 9.4 12.0 4.4 0.4
1977 Bill Walton .507 18.2 15.2 5.5 3.4
1976 Joe White .445 22.7 3.9 5.4 0.1
1975 Rick Barry .444 28.2 5.5 6.1 0.9
1974 John Havlicek .484 27.1 6.4 6.0 0.3
1973 Willis Reed .466 12.5 7.6 1.8
1972 Wilt Chamberlain .563 14.7 21.0 3.3
1971 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.515 26.6 17.0 2.5
1970 Willis Reed .471 23.7 13.8 2.8
1969 Jerry West .463 30.9 3.9 7.5

Voting Results

1995 Hakeem Olajuwon - 7
1991 Michael Jordan - 4
2000 Shaquille O'Neal - 2
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon - 2
1992 Michael Jordan - 1
2012 Lebron James - 1
2003 Tim Duncan - 1
1971 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 1
1969 Jerry West - 1

[StateOfMind12]

Hakeem Olajuwon in 1995 has my vote mainly because of the superior competition he went against compared to what Jordan had to go against in 1991, Shaq in 2000 and 2001, etc.

[SilkkTheShocker]

94 Hakeem for me. Especially when you factor he was playing with a bunch of role players for the most part. Who was their 2nd best player? Otis Thorpe? Good player, but aside from having a plethora of clutch shooters and defenders, those Rockets teams owe everyhting to Hakeem. 95 Hakeem went through a tougher road, but at least they had another all-star in Drexler.

[NumberSix]

King James 2012

[StateOfMind12]

94 Hakeem for me. Especially when you factor he was playing with a bunch of role players for the most part. Who was their 2nd best player? Otis Thorpe? Good player, but aside from having a plethora of clutch shooters and defenders, those Rockets teams owe everyhting to Hakeem.
95 Hakeem > 94 Hakeem, Hakeem had to go up against Malone in the 1st round, Barkley in the 2nd round, Robinson in the 3rd round, and Shaq in the Finals.

Did I also mention how he was the 6th seed so he didn't have HCA in any of those series? The numbers already show that Hakeem was amazing and impactful that post-season as well and more so than Hakeem in 1994.

People brag about Hakeem's 1995 playoff run, not his 1994 one. They brag about his 1994 ring though because he didn't have a Drexler alongside him but he was more productive in 1995.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Hakeem Olajuwon in 1995 has my vote mainly because of the superior competition he went against compared to what Jordan had to go against in 1991, Shaq in 2000 and 2001, etc.

I had trouble picking between 94 or 95 Rockets. After that, I agree with what you said about Shaq. 03 Duncan is also up there imo.

[RRR3]

Big Papa Ced Maxwell obviously.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

one must factor in the quality of opponents.
This year's run sucked ass, thanks to the shit that was OKC. Worst defensive Finals team in ages.

[SilkkTheShocker]

95 Hakeem > 94 Hakeem, Hakeem had to go up against Malone in the 1st round, Barkley in the 2nd round, Robinson in the 3rd round, and Shaq in the Finals.

Did I also mention how he was the 6th seed so he didn't have HCA in any of those series? The numbers already show that Hakeem was amazing and impactful that post-season as well and more so than Hakeem in 1994.

People brag about Hakeem's 1995 playoff run, not his 1994 one. They brag about his 1994 ring though because he didn't have a Drexler alongside him but he was more productive in 1995.


Bringing up the 6th seed part is retarded. Hakeem missed multiple games with injury and Drexler came in later. Their road to the Finals was one of the hardest ever, but he was also playing with another hall of famer. The gap between Hakeem and the next player on the 94 Rockets was even bigger than it was in 95. Im not saying 94 Hakeem>>>95 Hakeem, but I put more stock in the fact he had less to work with than in 95. The 94 Rockets were up there with Rick Barry's Warriors and Duncan's 03 Spurs for weakest Finals supporting casts.

[NumberSix]

one must factor in the quality of opponents.
This year's run sucked ass, thanks to the shit that was OKC. Worst defensive Finals team in ages.
B.. b.. b... but.... I thought they beat the last 3 champions?

Wasn't everybody saying this was some kind of all time historic playoff run until the Heat smashed them?

Turns out I was right all along. They just beat 3 over the hill teams.

[SilkkTheShocker]

one must factor in the quality of opponents.
This year's run sucked ass, thanks to the shit that was OKC. Worst defensive Finals team in ages.

That Thunder team raped the west in the playoffs. The problem is the west has too many pansy teams that don't play any defense.

[wagexslave]

Am I the only one that lol'd when I saw Chauncey Billups' sorry ass stats after reading all of these amazing "all time greats" stats, all of the 30+ PPG's and 15+ RPG's?

[RRR3]

one must factor in the quality of opponents.
This year's run sucked ass, thanks to the shit that was OKC. Worst defensive Finals team in ages.
Kobe fans do anything to discredit LeBron. :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

1991 Michael Jordan

[SilkkTheShocker]

Am I the only one that lol'd when I saw Chauncey Billups' sorry ass stats after reading all of these amazing "all time greats" stats, all of the 30+ PPG's and 15+ RPG's?


I was shocked. I thought for sure his FG% was higher than that in the Finals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe fans do anything to discredit LeBron. :facepalm
Quit trolling my thread

[oh the horror]

Kobe fans do anything to discredit LeBron. :facepalm


Except for the fact that everyone else in the thread also agreed with him.

[StateOfMind12]

I'll go with 1992 Michael Jordan
I would go with 91 Jordan before 92 Jordan.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I would go with 91 Jordan before 92 Jordan.
Jordan - '92 Playoffs
Finals: 36/5/7 53%
Conf Finals: 31/7/6 44%
Conf Semis: 31/6/4 47%
Conf 1sr Rd: 45/10/7 61%

No wonder why the Heat retired his jersey, look at what he did to them in the 1st round series :oldlol:
I think '92 run was better, he also defended his title which is the toughest thing to do in sports.

[StateOfMind12]

Jordan - '92 Playoffs
Finals: 36/5/7 53%
Conf Finals: 31/7/6 44%
Conf Semis: 31/6/4 47%
Conf 1sr Rd: 45/10/7 61%

No wonder why the Heat retired his jersey, look at what he did to them in the 1st round series :oldlol:

1992 Michael Jordan .499 34.5 6.2 5.8 0.7
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4

1991 Jordan, more efficient, better defense, better playmaking, better rebounding.















Next.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1992 Michael Jordan .499 34.5 6.2 5.8 0.7
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4

1991 Jordan, more efficient, better defense, better playmaking, better rebounding.

Next.
I just checked his turnovers. Almost 4 a game in '92. less than 2 TO in '91.

I change my mind, '91 run was better.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe fans do anything to discredit LeBron. :facepalm
curious. how would you stack up OKC vs the Finals teams of the last 5 or 10 years?

[lilgodfather1]

curious. how would you stack up OKC vs the Finals teams of the last 5 or 10 years?
The last five years? Sweep. Perk to shut down Bynum, Iblocka to man Gasol, Thabo on Kobe, Westbrook DESTROYS FISHER, and Durant destroys Ariza, and MWP.

The only team that would give them troube would be Boston. In the last ten years, only lose to the Lakers, and Spurs in '03 (Duncan was just on some next level shit).

Edit: THE SHAQ LAKERS. Nobody could stop that foo.

[PistolPete44]

Chauncy Billups... pathetic

[TheCorporation]

LeBron James

Only team to be down in 3 series and still it all. Very impressive run :applause:

[PJR]

1st three peat Jordan is the most doiminant player I have ever seen. Peak Shaq a close second.

[Odinn]

1980 Kareem
1986 Bird
1991 Jordan
1992 Jordan
1993 Jordan
1994 Hakeem
1995 Hakeem (imo, 1995 Hakeem was better than 1994 Hakeem tho)
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2003 Duncan

You can't go wrong with any of them.

PS: Yeah, I forgot that Kareem wasn't the FMVP in 1980.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'd probably rank them like this.

1.1992 Michael Jordan
2.1995 Hakeem Olajuwon
3.1991 Michael Jordan
4.2000 Shaquille O'Neal
5.2001 Shaquille O'Neal
6.1993 Michael Jordan
7.1994 Hakeem Olajuwon
8.1986 Larry Bird
9.2003 Tim Duncan
10.2012 Lebron James

It's too bad Kareem was robbed of the 1980 finals MVP, otherwise, he'd make the list. :facepalm

Honorable mention for '09 Kobe, he was in consideration, as well as '87 Magic, '02 Shaq, '84 Bird and '83 Moses, '71 Kareem and '77 Walton. Can't overlook '11 Dirk either.

Not entirely sure if Lebron should be over all of those guys, actually. Make it's too recent in my mind.

'92 Jordan makes it over '91 for me because of the superior competition. '91 Jordan was virtually flawless, though. MJ in his prime was just about as flawless of a player as you can be. '95 Hakeem is so high because of the incredible competition as well. Beating teams that won 60, 59, 62 and 57 games without HCA is unbelievable. Also outplayed the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league, who happened to play the same position as him.

[blacknapalm]

no mention of '75 rick barry in any lists?

:coleman:

[WillC]

2000 Shaquille O'Neal .566 30.7 15.4 3.1 2.4
1977 Bill Walton .507 18.2 15.2 5.5 3.4
1980 Magic Johnson .518 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon .519 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0

One of those five.

[Horatio33]

2000 Shaquille O'Neal .566 30.7 15.4 3.1 2.4
1977 Bill Walton .507 18.2 15.2 5.5 3.4
1980 Magic Johnson .518 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon .519 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0

One of those five.

I'd take Duncan 03 over Walton, pretty much similar stats buy Duncan had better PPG.

[Odinn]

2000 Shaquille O'Neal .566 30.7 15.4 3.1 2.4
1977 Bill Walton .507 18.2 15.2 5.5 3.4
1980 Magic Johnson .518 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon .519 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0

One of those five.
1980 Magic over 1987 Magic?:roll: :roll: :roll:

Your obsessions about the past...:facepalm :facepalm

[pauk]

This is where a rating on those overall stats comes extremly handy (PER).... and there is really nothing i can disagree with here if you carefully compare the overall stats of each player baring FG%, TS%, eFG%, 3pt%, FT%, turnovers, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and minutes... this is not all that matters, but it gives another important perspective...

1. 1991 Michael Jordan - 32.0
2. 2000 Shaquille Oneal - 30.5
3. 2012 Lebron James - 30.3
4. 1993 Michael Jordan - 30.1
5. 2001 Shaquille Oneal - 28.7
6. 2003 Tim Duncan - 28.4
7. 2002 Shaquille Oneal - 28.3
8. 1998 Michael Jordan - 28.1
9. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon - 27.7
10. 1992 Michael Jordan - 27.2

11. 1997 Michael Jordan - 27.1
12. 2006 Dwyane Wade - 26.9
13. 2009 Kobe Bryant - 26.8
14. 1995 Hakeem Olajuwon - 26.7
15. 1996 Michael Jordan - 26.7
16. 1984 Larry Bird - 26.3
17. 1987 Magic Johnson - 26.2
18. 1983 Moses Malone - 25.7
19. 1971 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 25.3
20. 1969 Jerry West - 25.2
21. 1999 Tim Duncan - 25.1
22. 2011 Dirk Nowitzki - 25.1
23. 2005 Tim Duncan - 24.9
24. 2010 Kobe Bryant - 24.7
25. 1986 Larry Bird - 23.9
26. 1982 Magic Johnson - 22.5
27. 1975 Rick Barry - 22.5
28. 1985 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 22.1
29. 1980 Magic Johnson - 22.1
30. 1990 Isiah Thomas - 21.0
31. 1974 John Havlicek - 20.5
32. 1988 James Worthy - 20.3
33. 1970 Willis Reed - 20.1
34. 1977 Bill Walton - 19.7
35. 1981 Cedric Maxwell - 18.9
36. 2004 Chauncey Billups - 18.8
37. 2007 Tony Parker - 18.7
38. 1979 Dennis Johnson - 18.1
39. 1972 Wilt Chamberlain - 17.8
40. 2008 Paul Pierce - 17.4
41. 1989 Joe Dumars - 17.0
42. 1976 Joe White - 15.5
43. 1973 Willis Reed - 15.1
44. 1978 Wes Unseld - 14.5

(Bold denotes active players)

[Horatio33]

This is where a rating on those overall stats comes extremly handy (PER).... and there is really nothing i can disagree with here if you carefully compare the overall stats of each player baring FG%, TS%, eFG%, 3pt%, FT%, turnovers, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and minutes...

(feel free to add this on the 1st page Duece, it gives another perspective)

1. 1991 Michael Jordan - 32.0 (a coincidence? i think not.. and my choice exactly for #1)
2. 2000 Shaquille Oneal - 30.5
3. 2012 Lebron James - 30.3
4. 1993 Michael Jordan - 30.1
5. 2001 Shaquille Oneal - 28.7
6. 2003 Tim Duncan - 28.4
7. 2002 Shaquille Oneal - 28.3
8. 1998 Michael Jordan - 28.1
9. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon - 27.7
10. 1992 Michael Jordan - 27.2

11. 1997 Michael Jordan - 27.1
12. 2006 Dwyane Wade - 26.9
13. 2009 Kobe Bryant - 26.8
14. 1995 Hakeem Olajuwon - 26.7
15. 1996 Michael Jordan - 26.7
16. 1984 Larry Bird - 26.3
17. 1987 Magic Johnson - 26.2
18. 1983 Moses Malone - 25.7
19. 1971 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 25.3
20. 1969 Jerry West - 25.2
21. 1999 Tim Duncan - 25.1
22. 2011 Dirk Nowitzki - 25.1
23. 2005 Tim Duncan - 24.9
24. 2010 Kobe Bryant - 24.7
25. 1986 Larry Bird - 23.9
26. 1982 Magic Johnson - 22.5
27. 1975 Rick Barry - 22.5
28. 1985 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 22.1
29. 1980 Magic Johnson - 22.1
30. 1990 Isiah Thomas - 21.0
31. 1974 John Havlicek - 20.5
32. 1988 James Worthy - 20.3
33. 1970 Willis Reed - 20.1
34. 1977 Bill Walton - 19.7
35. 1981 Cedric Maxwell - 18.9
36. 2004 Chauncey Billups - 18.8
37. 2007 Tony Parker - 18.7
38. 1979 Dennis Johnson - 18.1
39. 1972 Wilt Chamberlain - 17.8
40. 2008 Paul Pierce - 17.4
41. 1989 Joe Dumars - 17.0
42. 1976 Joe White - 15.5
43. 1973 Willis Reed - 15.1
44. 1978 Wes Unseld - 14.5

(Bold denotes active players)

Only because it pumps up LeBron. He had an average LeBron series, most guys on the list their numbers increased in the post season.

[pauk]

Only because it pumps up LeBron. He had an average LeBron series, most guys on the list their numbers increased in the post season.

An average Lebron run huh? wow... are we taking Lebron for granted or what? 30-10-6-2-1 @ 50% FG in this modern era..... the only more productive playoff run he had was in 2009... where he averaged 35-9-7 which gave a per rating of 37.1... which is the 2nd highest rating in NBA history (#1 really considering Hakeem played only 4 games).... none of the other playoff runs he had were even close... and in this one he also led the league in 4th quarter scoring & clutch stats and dominated up to 4 positions offensively & defensively (not to mention winning the championship & fmvp)

Dont take him for granted my friend, what you witnessed this playoff run from Lebron was historic

[pauk]

Anyways... with that being said...

Vote - #1 Playoff Run of All-Time by a FMVP i think belongs to 1991 MICHAEL JORDAN

With 31.1 PPG and 8.4 APG (1 assist = 2-3 points on the boxscore) he had a hand in for up to 56.3 of his teams points... then you add the rebounds, steals, blocks... then you think about he shot 52% FG and the 4th quarter/clutch domination... and the competition.... voila...

[Horatio33]

An average Lebron run huh? wow... are we taking Lebron for granted or what? 30-10-6-2-1 @ 50% FG in this modern era..... the only more productive playoff run he had was in 2009... where he averaged 35-9-7 which gave a per rating of 37.1... which is the 2nd highest rating in NBA history (#1 really considering Hakeem played only 4 games).... none of the other playoff runs he had were even close... and in this one he also led the league in 4th quarter scoring & clutch stats and dominated up to 4 positions offensively & defensively (not to mention winning the championship & fmvp)

Dont take him for granted my friend, what you witnessed this playoff run from Lebron was historic

I'm not knocking him, he was great.

Also, were you happier for the Heat or LeBron when the title was won?

[pauk]

I'm not knocking him, he was great.

Also, were you happier for the Heat or LeBron when the title was won?

Following Lebron since 2002 and seeing all his ups & downs i have to say i was extra happier for Lebron, to be such a good guy, teammate, talent and extremly unselfish player (probably the most unselfish superstar non-PG ever alongside Larry Bird) who plays the right way not win a championship was very shocking to me... this is the type of players that deserve championships...

[Owl]

Only because it pumps up LeBron. He had an average LeBron series, most guys on the list their numbers increased in the post season.
And thus Cedric Maxwell, Tony Parker, Dennis Johnson, Jo Jo White etc are best because their regular season numbers are more ordinary and thus leave the most room for improvement.

[jrong]

King James 2012

Seriously, dude? You're usually pretty rational, but this time....

LeBron's 30/10/6 isn't even that much better than Wade's 28/6/6. It's better, but not by leaps and bounds.

On the other hand, look at some of those other efforts. Jordan's 35/7/6 in 93. Hakeem's 33/10/5 in 95...

[Jameerthefear]

This is where a rating on those overall stats comes extremly handy (PER).... and there is really nothing i can disagree with here if you carefully compare the overall stats of each player baring FG%, TS%, eFG%, 3pt%, FT%, turnovers, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and minutes...

(feel free to add this on the 1st page Duece, it gives another perspective)

1. 1991 Michael Jordan - 32.0 (a coincidence? i think not.. and my choice exactly for #1)
2. 2000 Shaquille Oneal - 30.5
3. 2012 Lebron James - 30.3
4. 1993 Michael Jordan - 30.1
5. 2001 Shaquille Oneal - 28.7
6. 2003 Tim Duncan - 28.4
7. 2002 Shaquille Oneal - 28.3
8. 1998 Michael Jordan - 28.1
9. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon - 27.7
10. 1992 Michael Jordan - 27.2

11. 1997 Michael Jordan - 27.1
12. 2006 Dwyane Wade - 26.9
13. 2009 Kobe Bryant - 26.8
14. 1995 Hakeem Olajuwon - 26.7
15. 1996 Michael Jordan - 26.7
16. 1984 Larry Bird - 26.3
17. 1987 Magic Johnson - 26.2
18. 1983 Moses Malone - 25.7
19. 1971 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 25.3
20. 1969 Jerry West - 25.2
21. 1999 Tim Duncan - 25.1
22. 2011 Dirk Nowitzki - 25.1
23. 2005 Tim Duncan - 24.9
24. 2010 Kobe Bryant - 24.7
25. 1986 Larry Bird - 23.9
26. 1982 Magic Johnson - 22.5
27. 1975 Rick Barry - 22.5
28. 1985 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 22.1
29. 1980 Magic Johnson - 22.1
30. 1990 Isiah Thomas - 21.0
31. 1974 John Havlicek - 20.5
32. 1988 James Worthy - 20.3
33. 1970 Willis Reed - 20.1
34. 1977 Bill Walton - 19.7
35. 1981 Cedric Maxwell - 18.9
36. 2004 Chauncey Billups - 18.8
37. 2007 Tony Parker - 18.7
38. 1979 Dennis Johnson - 18.1
39. 1972 Wilt Chamberlain - 17.8
40. 2008 Paul Pierce - 17.4
41. 1989 Joe Dumars - 17.0
42. 1976 Joe White - 15.5
43. 1973 Willis Reed - 15.1
44. 1978 Wes Unseld - 14.5

(Bold denotes active players)
Obvious agenda.

[Scholar]

I want to say MJ in '91, but Hakeem's name is beckoning for that '95 performance. He did that against a young Shaquille O'Neal being the primary defender on him, so that's just goddamn impressive. :applause:

[LBJMVP]

curious. how would you stack up OKC vs the Finals teams of the last 5 or 10 years?


i dont think they would beat to many teams...

they lost to the champs this year, last year, and the year before.

they lose to the lakers in 09, boston in 08, san antonio in 07, maybe beat the heat in 06, lose to san antonio, lose to detroit and lose to the lakers.


plus they are all young, and it was their first finals....

[BallsOut]

I'd probably rank them like this.

1.1992 Michael Jordan
2.1995 Hakeem Olajuwon
3.1991 Michael Jordan
4.2000 Shaquille O'Neal
5.2001 Shaquille O'Neal
6.1993 Michael Jordan
7.1994 Hakeem Olajuwon
8.1986 Larry Bird
9.2003 Tim Duncan
10.2012 Lebron James

It's too bad Kareem was robbed of the 1980 finals MVP, otherwise, he'd make the list. :facepalm

Honorable mention for '09 Kobe, he was in consideration, as well as '87 Magic, '02 Shaq, '84 Bird and '83 Moses, '71 Kareem and '77 Walton. Can't overlook '11 Dirk either.

Not entirely sure if Lebron should be over all of those guys, actually. Make it's too recent in my mind.

'92 Jordan makes it over '91 for me because of the superior competition. '91 Jordan was virtually flawless, though. MJ in his prime was just about as flawless of a player as you can be. '95 Hakeem is so high because of the incredible competition as well. Beating teams that won 60, 59, 62 and 57 games without HCA is unbelievable. Also outplayed the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league, who happened to play the same position as him.

****ing joke. Is all you care about is stats? Lebron had minimal competition in these playoffs on his way to the finals. Dumb Knicks? Pacers who would be a 7th seed in the West? Old ass injured Celtics team? At least put these runs into context and then decide. You're starting to come off as a guy who only cares about stats to me. Dirk's 10-11 run, Kobe's 08-09 and 09-10 runs are easily more impressive if you factor in their production AND level of competition.

[RaininTwos]

****ing joke. Is all you care about is stats? Lebron had minimal competition in these playoffs on his way to the finals. Dumb Knicks? Pacers who would be a 7th seed in the West? Old ass injured Celtics team? At least put these runs into context and then decide. You're starting to come off as a guy who only cares about stats to me. Dirk's 10-11 run, Kobe's 08-09 and 09-10 runs are easily more impressive if you factor in their production AND level of competition.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5u90c8iYB1qcegwd.gif

[ShaqAttack3234]

****ing joke. Is all you care about is stats? Lebron had minimal competition in these playoffs on his way to the finals. Dumb Knicks? Pacers who would be a 7th seed in the West? Old ass injured Celtics team? At least put these runs into context and then decide. You're starting to come off as a guy who only cares about stats to me. Dirk's 10-11 run, Kobe's 08-09 and 09-10 runs are easily more impressive if you factor in their production AND level of competition.

:oldlol: I don't feel particularly strongly about Lebron's current run making it or not, btw. It is better than Dirk's run. Dirk's competition was very impressive, clearly better than Lebron's, and Dirk was much better in 4th quarters, and I'd also give him the better scoring run despite Lebron scoring more. But Lebron's all around game puts him above Dirk for me, and I don't have to think too hard about it.

I said that '09 Kobe vs '12 Lebron is debatable. It's not like '09 Kobe had the best competition either. Denver arguably had as much talent as LA, but the Lakers didn't have to face their toughest competition due to KG's injury, and Yao also only played 3 games when Houston took them to 7.

Kobe's '09 run was very consistent, but he only had 1 series I'd call great which was the WCF. Lebron was also very consistent this year. He came up huge in must win games, his rebounding was great, his defense was phenomenal and no other player in the league could match his all around game.

Kobe's competition in '10 was better, but he was less consistent. And you have to factor in Kobe having more help in '10 if you're going to talk about better competition. Kobe had Pau, who was much better than Wade was in the '12 playoffs, and not THAT much worse than kobe in the '10 series. Kobe only separated himself in the WCF, while Pau was the MVP of the 1st round. Kobe was the playoff MVP, but the gap wasn't that big, imo. And LA overall had 2 top 10 players(Kobe was top 2 in the league and the best SG), and 4 players who were probably top 10 at their positions(Artest wasn't great and Bynum was limited, but can you name 9 players better at their positions?), and one of the best sixth men.

Hell, Magic in '87, Moses in '83, Bird in '84 and Walton in '77 may have been better than all of them.

[ripthekik]

King James 2012
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

2000 Shaquille O'Neal .566 30.7 15.4 3.1 2.4
1977 Bill Walton .507 18.2 15.2 5.5 3.4
1980 Magic Johnson .518 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon .519 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0

One of those five.


1980 Kareem
1986 Bird
1991 Jordan
1992 Jordan
1993 Jordan
1994 Hakeem
1995 Hakeem (imo, 1995 Hakeem was better than 1994 Hakeem tho)
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2003 Duncan

You can't go wrong with any of them.

PS: Yeah, I forgot that Kareem wasn't the FMVP in 1980.

Can you pick your #1

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's too bad Kareem was robbed of the 1980 finals MVP, otherwise, he'd make the list. :facepalm

Yup. 32-12-3 on 57%. 33-14-3 on 55% in the Finals. That is definitely one of the best ever.

[Alamo]

2003 Duncan is my choice. Amazing all around performance.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is where a rating on those overall stats comes extremly handy (PER).... and there is really nothing i can disagree with here if you carefully compare the overall stats of each player baring FG%, TS%, eFG%, 3pt%, FT%, turnovers, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and minutes...

(feel free to add this on the 1st page Duece, it gives another perspective)

1. 1991 Michael Jordan - 32.0 (a coincidence? i think not.. and my choice exactly for #1)
2. 2000 Shaquille Oneal - 30.5
3. 2012 Lebron James - 30.3
4. 1993 Michael Jordan - 30.1
5. 2001 Shaquille Oneal - 28.7
6. 2003 Tim Duncan - 28.4
7. 2002 Shaquille Oneal - 28.3
8. 1998 Michael Jordan - 28.1
9. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon - 27.7
10. 1992 Michael Jordan - 27.2

11. 1997 Michael Jordan - 27.1
12. 2006 Dwyane Wade - 26.9
13. 2009 Kobe Bryant - 26.8
14. 1995 Hakeem Olajuwon - 26.7
15. 1996 Michael Jordan - 26.7
16. 1984 Larry Bird - 26.3
17. 1987 Magic Johnson - 26.2
18. 1983 Moses Malone - 25.7
19. 1971 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 25.3
20. 1969 Jerry West - 25.2
21. 1999 Tim Duncan - 25.1
22. 2011 Dirk Nowitzki - 25.1
23. 2005 Tim Duncan - 24.9
24. 2010 Kobe Bryant - 24.7
25. 1986 Larry Bird - 23.9
26. 1982 Magic Johnson - 22.5
27. 1975 Rick Barry - 22.5
28. 1985 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 22.1
29. 1980 Magic Johnson - 22.1
30. 1990 Isiah Thomas - 21.0
31. 1974 John Havlicek - 20.5
32. 1988 James Worthy - 20.3
33. 1970 Willis Reed - 20.1
34. 1977 Bill Walton - 19.7
35. 1981 Cedric Maxwell - 18.9
36. 2004 Chauncey Billups - 18.8
37. 2007 Tony Parker - 18.7
38. 1979 Dennis Johnson - 18.1
39. 1972 Wilt Chamberlain - 17.8
40. 2008 Paul Pierce - 17.4
41. 1989 Joe Dumars - 17.0
42. 1976 Joe White - 15.5
43. 1973 Willis Reed - 15.1
44. 1978 Wes Unseld - 14.5

(Bold denotes active players)
PER lol

Lebron 2012 - 30/10/5 50% = 30.3 PER
Jordan 1992 - 35/6/6 50% = 27.2 PER
Hakeem 1995 - 33/10/5 53% = 26.7 PER
Shaq 2001 - 30/15/3 56% = 28.7 PER

Totally makes sense

[jlauber]

Russell's '65 (particularly his Finals) and Wilt's '67 were among the best ever. And only a clown would not credit either with a FMVP in those years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell's '65 (particularly his Finals) and Wilt's '67 were among the best ever. And only a clown would not credit either with a FMVP in those years.
Vote - #1 Playoff Run of All-Time by a FMVP

[EnoughSaid]

Hakeem "The Dream" in 1995

:bowdown:

[Deuce Bigalow]

btw jlauber, you said Bill Russell today would be Ben Wallace, so why would you choose '65 Russell?

[jlauber]

btw jlauber, you said Bill Russell today would be Ben Wallace, so why would you choose '65 Russell?

First of all, there is nothing wrong with being compared to Ben Wallace.

Secondly, I stated that YEARS ago, and have since (and ALWAYS on this forum) have proclaimed Russell a considerably better offensive player (especially if you consider his PASSING.) And, as we KNOW, Russell had 20 ppg post-seasons.

Now, speaking of changing your mind...do you still stand by your now famous comment, that Wilt's 1-11 shooting in game seven of the '70 Finals cost him 3-4 rings? (Yes, ONE game, in which his team would still have lost had he made ALL of his FTs.)

As for Russell's '65 post-season run...

16.5 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 6.3 apg, and on a career high .527 shooting. And how about his Finals? 18 ppg, 27 rpg, and on, a RECORD, .702 shooting from the floor.

[Deuce Bigalow]

First of all, there is nothing wrong with being compared to Ben Wallace.

Secondly, I stated that YEARS ago, and have since (and ALWAYS on this forum) have proclaimed Russell a considerably better offensive player (especially if you consider his PASSING.) And, as we KNOW, Russell had 20 ppg post-seasons.

Now, speaking of changing your mind...do you still stand by your now famous comment, that Wilt's 1-11 shooting in game seven of the '70 Finals cost him 3-4 rings? (Yes, ONE game, in which his team would still have lost had he made ALL of his FTs.)

As for Russell's '65 post-season run...

16.5 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 6.3 apg, and on a career high .527 shooting. And how about his Finals? 18 ppg, 27 rpg, and on, a RECORD, .702 shooting from the floor.
His horrible freethrow shooting ALL SERIES LONG (sub 40%) cost Jerry West and LA 2 rings.

And Russell in '65 is not an option, as it clearly states in the title "by a FMVP"

[jlauber]

His horrible freethrow shooting ALL SERIES LONG (sub 40%) cost Jerry West and LA 2 rings.

And Russell in '65 is not an option, as it clearly states in the title "by a FMVP"

Here again, your orginal claim was that that ONE game cost him 3-4 rings. And, it was BAYLOR (and of course Van Breda Kolf) who cost West a ring in '69.

And, give me your FMVP in '65. Just because they didn't have an "offcial" FMVP in '65, doesn't mean that there wasn't one.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Here again, your orginal claim was that that ONE game cost him 3-4 rings. And, it was BAYLOR (and of course Van Breda Kolf) who cost West a ring in '69.

And, give me your FMVP in '65.
1969 NBA Finals
Chamberlain: 24-66 FT, 36.4%

The Lakers had a 1 point loss and a 2 point loss

Wilt cost them a ring in '69, it is what it is.

And the award didn't exist in '65.

Vote for someone since '69 please.

[jlauber]

1969 NBA Finals
Chamberlain: 24-66 FT, 36.4%

The Lakers had a 1 point loss and a 2 point loss

Wilt cost them a ring in '69, it is what it is.

And the award didn't exist in '65.

Vote for someone since '69 please.

In that one point loss...Baylor not only shot 2-14 from the field, he also shot 1-6 from the line.

In that game seven, two point loss, Chamberlain's incompetent coach left him on the bench in the last five minutes. Baylor once again bricked the entire game, going 8-22 from the field. Meanwhile, while Chamberlain was shooting 7-8 from the field, his teammates (including the aforementioned Baylor) collectively shot .360 from the floor. Incidently, Wilt outscored Russell in that game seven, 18-6; outshot Russell from the floor, 7-8 to 2-7; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21 (despite playing five minutes less.)

And, my personal vote...Chamberlain's '67 playoff run, in which he destroyed both Russell and Thurmond (as well as annihilating Dierking in round one.) And, there was no question that he was the FMVP in '67.

[Deuce Bigalow]

In that one point loss...Baylor not only shot 2-14 from the field, he also shot 1-6 from the line.

In that game seven, two point loss, Chamberlain's incompetent coach left him on the bench in the last five minutes. Baylor once again bricked the entire game, going 8-22 from the field. Meanwhile, while Chamberlain was shooting 7-8 from the field, his teammates (including the aforementioned Baylor) collectively shot .360 from the floor. Incidently, Wilt outscored Russell in that game seven, 18-6; outshot Russell from the floor, 7-8 to 2-7; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21 (despite playing five minutes less.)

And, my personal vote...Chamberlain's '67 playoff run, in which he destroyed both Russell and Thurmond (as well as annihilating Dierking in round one.) And, there was no question that he was the FMVP in '67.
1969 is as far back as you can vote for.

And stop kidding yourself, you know that if Wilt hits a freethrow here or there they would have won.

[jlauber]

1969 is as far back as you can vote too

Then I am taking my ball and going home.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Then I am taking my ball and going home.
Go ahead. And anyways it's not like anything pre '69 was better than a run by Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Magic, ect.

[jlauber]

Go ahead. And anyways it's not like anything pre '69 was better than a run by Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Magic, ect.

Yeah...after all, outscoring, outrebounding, outpassing, and outshooting opposing centers in all three post-season series, and generally by considerable margins, in leading his team to an 11-4 playoff record, and a dominating world title wouldn't rank.

Nope...not hanging a 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, .612 FG% series against Dierking (including a 41 point game, on 19-30 shooting; a 37 point game, on 16-24 shooting; and a 16-30-19 game...yes, 19 assists.)

Or outscoring Russell by a 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg margin; outassisting Russell by a 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg margin; outshooting Russell by a staggering .556 to .358 margin; and outrebounding Russell by an incredible 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg margin. Or dominating Russell in the clinching game five win by outscoring him, 29-4; outassisting him, 13-7; outshooting him, 10-16 to 2-5; and outrebounding him, 36-21.

Or outscoring Thurmond, 17.5 ppg to 14.3 ppg, and in five of their six games. Or outrebounding Thurmond, 28.5 rpg to 26.7 rpg, including outrebounding him in five of the six games. Or outassisting Thurmond, 7 apg to 4.3 apg. Ot outshooting Thurmond, by get this, a .560 to .343 margin. And in the clinching game six win, all Chamberlain did was outscore Nate, 24-12; outrebound Thurmond, 24-23; and outshooting Nate, 8-13 to 4-13.

Nope...nothing great about that post-season. We have had many 21.7 ppg, 29.2 rpg, 9.2 apg, and on .579 shooting post-season runs, and in which that player absolutely murdered his peers (two of whom are HOF centers, and two of the top-3 defensive centers of all-time.)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah...after all, outscoring, outrebounding, outpassing, and outshooting opposing centers in all three post-season series, and generally by considerable margins, in leading his team to an 11-4 playoff record, and a dominating world title wouldn't rank.

Nope...not hanging a 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, .612 FG% series against Dierking (including a 41 point game, on 19-30 shooting; a 37 point game, on 16-24 shooting; and a 16-30-19 game...yes, 19 assists.)

Or outscoring Russell by a 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg margin; outassisting Russell by a 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg margin; outshooting Russell by a staggering .556 to .358 margin; and outrebounding Russell by an incredible 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg margin. Or dominating Russell in the clinching game five win by outscoring him, 29-4; outassisting him, 13-7; outshooting him, 10-16 to 2-5; and outrebounding him, 36-21.

Or outscoring Thurmond, 17.5 ppg to 14.3 ppg, and in five of their six games. Or outrebounding Thurmond, 28.5 rpg to 26.7 rpg, including outrebounding him in five of the six games. Or outassisting Thurmond, 7 apg to 4.3 apg. Ot outshooting Thurmond, by get this, a .560 to .343 margin. And in the clinching game six win, all Chamberlain did was outscore Nate, 24-12; outrebound Thurmond, 24-23; and outshooting Nate, 8-13 to 4-13.

Nope...nothing great about that post-season. We have had many 21.7 ppg, 29.2 rpg, 9.2 apg, and on .579 shooting post-season runs, and in which that player absolutely murdered his peers (two of whom are HOF centers, and two of the top-3 defensive centers of all-time.)
Yup. We had.

[jacobgoindum]

2000 O'Neal

[Kingwillball]

Hakeen and Jordan had a Year or two that were probably at the top Followed by Shaq and Duncan but Lebron this past postseason definitely in the top 10.

[Remix]

Hakeem95

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan '91
Shaq '00
Hakeem '95
Duncan '03
Magic '87
Bird '86

[Rake2204]

Chauncy Billups... pathetic
If it makes you feel any better, I thought Ben Wallace would have been just as worthy in receiving the award. He averaged 10.3ppg, 14.3rpg, 1.9apg, and and 2.4bpg (on 45% shooting). Chauncey didn't win the award for his spectacular play. Rather, he was just one of many who were able to do his job correctly over the course of the Finals. Also, Richard Hamilton averaged 22, 5, and 4 during those playoffs, so his statline would have been at least closer to normal, though no one really looked at him like a FMVP candidate.

On topic though, I think I might go for 1991 Michael Jordan, only because I loved the Finals statline of: 31.2ppg (on 55.8% shooting), 6.6rpg, 2.8spg, 1.4bpg, and 11.4apg.

[alenleomessi]

00 Shaq

[Fazotronic]

hakeem 95

@pauk
i don't mind if you use per to help ranking players put you're just using the exact same order which makes no sense at all:biggums:

[SilkkTheShocker]

jlauber, do you ever talk about basketball from this era?

[jlauber]

jlauber, do you ever talk about basketball from this era?

I have posted this MANY times, but here is MY Top-10...

1-4 and in ANY order... Russell, Magic, MJ, or Wilt

5. Kareem
6. Shaq and Duncan

8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Moses

Pretty much covers every era...

[Deuce Bigalow]

I have posted this MANY times, but here is MY Top-10...

1-4 and in ANY order... Russell, Magic, MJ, or Wilt

5. Kareem
6. Shaq and Duncan

8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Moses

Pretty much covers every era...
Wilt over Kareem....:roll:

And you have yet to explain why Wilt's career is better than Bird's, Shaq's, Kobe's, and Duncan's.

[jlauber]

Wilt over Kareem....:roll:

And you have yet to explain why Wilt's career is better than Bird's, Shaq's, Kobe's, and Duncan's.

Chamberlain's career was easily better than Kareem's. In fact, had Wilt been fortunate enough to have MAGIC for TEN seasons, I suspect that he would have had MORE career rings than Kareem.

Not only that, but Kareem had many more post-season "flop jobs" than Wilt. Wilt, along with MJ, are the two greatest post-season players in NBA history. Especially BIG GAME players. And in Wilt's case, not only did he put up EXTRAORDINARY post-season numbers, especially in his prime, but he SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED the numbers of his OPPOSING centers.

As for the other's...Chamberlain DOMINATED his PEERS...FAR more than any of those guys did to their's. Take a look at scoring, rebounding, FG% and even ASSIST titles. He had more scoring and rebounding titles than all of those guys...COMBINED. Hell, throw in Kareem in that mix...and Wilt STILL has more scoring titles...COMBINED. How about rebounding titles? Even with Kareem in with that group...Wilt holds an 11-1 edge, in his 14 seasons, over their COMBINED 82 seasons!

Wilt was easily a better scorer, a more efficient scorer, especially against league average, a much more dominant rebounder. A much better defensive player. A much better shot-blocker. And he even won more assist titles than all of those guys...COMBINED.

[Deuce Bigalow]

6

[jlauber]

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]6

[Deuce Bigalow]

20 years to Wilt's 14.

And in Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he was voted first-team all-defense, over, guess who? Wilt also easily led the NBA in rebounding that season, and again over, guess who? And Chamberlain LED the NBA in FG%, (in fact set a RECORD of .727 that will never be broken), and again over, guess who?

Oh, and in their FOUR seasons together, Wilt took his teams to THREE Finals...while Kareem managed that feat only once.

THEN, open up the RECORD BOOK...and which player's name is PLASTERED all over it? And before you dimimish Wilt's REGULAR season records...he also has FAR more POST-SEASON RECORDS than Kareem.
Kareem >>> Wilt.
Not even close.
Sorry.
Next.

Also give me 20 years of Kareem over everybody except MJ and Magic.

[jlauber]

Kareem >>> Wilt.
Not even close.
Sorry.

Next.

Kareem has NO case over Wilt. Not even close.

Chamberlain was the better scorer, rebounder, more efficient, better passer, better defender, and greater shot-blocker. Kareem was a better FT shooter (although Wilt averaged 432 MADE per season, compared to Kareem's 335.)

Care to compare scoring titles? (7-2)
FG% titles? (9-1)
Rebound titles? (11-1)
Assist titles? (1-0, and even a third place finish in another season.)
And an OLD Wilt held a 2-0 edge in first-team all-defensive selections while playing with a PRIME Kareem for four seasons.

Case closed.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kareem has NO case over Wilt. Not even close.

Chamberlain was the better scorer, rebounder, more efficient, better passer, better defender, and greater shot-blocker. Kareem was a better FT shooter (although Wilt averaged 432 MADE per season, compared to Kareem's 335.)

Care to compare scoring titles? (7-2)
FG% titles? (9-1)
Rebound titles? (11-1)
Assist titles? (1-0, and even a third place finish in another season.)

Case closed.
Holy shit delusional old man

Kareem
6

[k0kakw0rld]

Hakeem 95

[jlauber]

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Holy shit delusional old man

Kareem
6

[Deuce Bigalow]

Listen uneducated fool...

I ALREADY blew that crap up in a previous post.

Secondly, a PRIME Kareem faced MANY of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain faced...

Where is HIS 100 point game against Imhoff? How about a 66 point game, on 29-35 shooting (and in his 11th season) against Jim Fox? Where is HIS 60 point game against Dierking (again, Wilt accomplished that feat long after he was in his scoring prime...and in fact, just a year before Kareem joined the NBA)?

Where is Kareem's 40.1 ppg average and in NINE H2H games in one season against Reed? Where are the games in which Kareem outscored Reed by 52-23 and 58-28 margins?

Where are the FOUR 60+ point games (with a HIGH game of 73 points, to go along with 36 rebounds) that Wilt pounded 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy with?

And how about Nate Thurmond? A PRIME Kareem faced Thurmond in 43 career H2H starts (and several after Nate was past his prime.) He had SEVEN 30+ point games against Thurmond, with a HIGH game of 34 points.

How about a PRIME "scoring" Wilt against Nate? In 11 STRAIGHT games in the mid-60's (including the first one in his '67 season, when he no longer was shooting nearly as much), Chamberlain had SIX 30+ point games...of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 (outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.)

Oh, and Kareem faced Thurmond in three straight post-seasons, and shot .486, .428, and a ghastly .405. Chamberlain faced Thurmond in three post-season series, and outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and an astounding .560 to .343.

No way in hell a PRIME Kareem would have had a PRAYER against a PRIME Chamberlain H2H.
Where is Wilt's 6 NBA Championships?
Where is Wilt's 2 NBA Finals MVPs?
Where is Wilt's 6 Regular Season MVPs
Where is Wilt's 10 All-NBA 1st teams?
Where is Wilt's 15 All-NBA Teams
Where is Wilt's 19 All-Star team Selections?

Also Kareem doesn't shoot 40% from the freethrow line either :oldlol:

Not close.

[jlauber]

Where is Wilt's 6 NBA Championships?
Where is Wilt's 2 NBA Finals MVPs?
Where is Wilt's 6 Regular Season MVPs
Where is Wilt's 10 All-NBA 1st teams?
Where is Wilt's 15 All-NBA Teams
Where is Wilt's 19 All-Star team Selections?

Also Kareem doesn't shoot 40% from the freethrow line either :oldlol:

Not close.

I won't take the time to post them...read it for yourself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_achievements_of_Wilt_Chamberlain

Kareem couldn't hold Wilt's jockstrap...

BTW, Chamberlain also had TWO FMVP, and only a complete idiot would dispute him having won it in '67...which I have already proclaimed as the greatest playoff run by a FMVP of all-time.

[oolalaa]

Where is Wilt's 6 NBA Championships?
Where is Wilt's 2 NBA Finals MVPs?
Where is Wilt's 6 Regular Season MVPs
Where is Wilt's 10 All-NBA 1st teams?
Where is Wilt's 15 All-NBA Teams
Where is Wilt's 19 All-Star team Selections?

Also Kareem doesn't shoot 40% from the freethrow line either :oldlol:

Not close.

Kareem was only the best player/alpha dog on a championship winning team TWICE. He was the second best for 2 and the 3rd best for another 2 (Although, that's being generous. He was a god damn corpse in '88).

Magic RESCUED Kareem from an underachieving abyss.


Oh, and, Wilt has two finals MVPs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I won't take the time to post them...read it for yourself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_achievements_of_Wilt_Chamberlain

Kareem couldn't hold Wilt's jockstrap...

BTW, Chamberlain also had TWO FMVP, and only a complete idiot would dispute him having won it in '67...which I have already proclaimed as the greatest playoff run by a FMVP of all-time.
Sorry no.

Vote for a finals mvp when the award was given please and stop your Wilt story telling.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kareem was only the best player/alpha dog on a championship winning team TWICE. He was the second best for 2 and the 3rd best for another 2 (Although, that's being generous. He was a god damn corpse in '88).

Magic RESCUED Kareem from an underachieving abyss.


Oh, and, Wilt has two finals MVPs.
Wilt couldn't even win with a prime Jerry West who averaged 38 ppg in the '69 Finals and had 42/13/12 in Game 7. So please..

[The Iron Fist]

Kareem was only the best player/alpha dog on a championship winning team TWICE. He was the second best for 2 and the 3rd best for another 2 (Although, that's being generous. He was a god damn corpse in '88).

Magic RESCUED Kareem from an underachieving abyss.


Oh, and, Wilt has two finals MVPs.
List Magics titles without Kareem.

[Stuckey]

dream 95

[jlauber]

List Magics titles without Kareem.

I'll start with this...Magic won a clinching game six, on the road, as a rookie...WITHOUT Kareem.

Secondly, MAGIC led the '88 Lakers to a title DESPITE Kareem, who was absolutely AWFUL in the post-season, and even WORSE in the Finals. Then, he put up the worst performance, by an all-time great, in a game seven of that series.

And I have maintained that the '87 Lakers were so dominant, that they could have given Kareem's minutes to Thompson and Green, and still won a title.

Furthermore, the Lakers were 11-0 going into the '89 Finals, but had lost Byron Scott and his 20 ppg in the last game of the WCF's. Then, in game two of the Finals, Magic went down. The result...a 4-0 sweeping loss.

And, in Kareem's last year, the Lakers went 57-25. After he retired, Magic with Divac at center took LA to a 63-19 record, which was their second best record of the entire decade.

On top of that, Magic took an injury-riddled Laker team, that was obviously done, to yet another Finals in his last season.


Kareem? He won ONE ring before Magic, and with Oscar guiding the team. BTW, has there ever been an easier road to a title than what Kareem had in his '71 season? His 66-16 Bucks faced a 41-41 Warrior team in the first round. Then, in the WCF's they faced a 48-34 Laker team that was without BOTH West and Baylor (and in a series in which a 34 year old Chamberlain, only a year removed from major knee surgery, battled him to a statistical draw.) Then, they faced a 42-40 Bullets team in the Finals.

In the decade of the 70's, which was the weakest era for champions in NBA history, Kareem took two teams to a Finals, and won ONE ring.

Magic won THREE FMVP IN the Kareem-era, and should have won a fourth in '88. Take Magic out of the equation, and Kareem retires with one ring, and probably around the mid-80's...and his career a HUGE disappointment.

[jlauber]

Wilt couldn't even win with a prime Jerry West who averaged 38 ppg in the '69 Finals and had 42/13/12 in Game 7. So please..

And why? Because the shot-jacking BAYLOR cost the Lakers THREE games, and the LA COACH certainly cost LA the game seven by keeping Chamberlain on the bench in a two point loss(in addition to all the other stupid moves he made.)

BTW, how did West finally get his first ring? He did so while shooting .376 in that post-season, and an even worse .325 in the Finals. Wait...how did LA win that ring, then? Oh, it was CHAMBERLAIN mowing down a PRIME Kareem in the WCF's, and then DOMINATING the Knicks in the Finals...en route to a FMVP.

[jlauber]

Incidently Dunce,

You have Kareem ranked among the all-time greats, yet you constantly harp about how WEAK Wilt's era was. And yet, Kareem played FOUR seasons IN the Wilt-era, BUT, where were his 32 60+ point games (he had ZERO in a 20 year career BTW)? Where were his 103 30-30 games (Wilt had TWO, just in the 71-72 season alone and near the end of his career, while Kareem had ONE in his 20 year career)?

Why couldn't Kareem get 20 rpg IN the Wilt era? He never even approached 20 in his 20 year post-season career, either, and yet, Wilt in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, averaged 22.5 rpg (which was among his WORST post-seasons BTW.)

And how about this...Chamberlain had seasons of .649, .683, and .727 IN the Wilt-era (and Kareem played in TWO of those BTW), yet, what was Kareem's BEST season (.604, and in 1980, when nearly everyone was shooting .500.)

Wouldn't you think that a PRIME Kareem would have FEASTED on all those WEAK centers that played in the Wilt era, and just destroyed Wilt's scoring records? Wait, Kareem's BEST scoring season, was 34.8 ppg...which would have barely beaten Wilt's SIXTH best season mark of 34.7 ppg.

How about the post-season? Give me a list of all of Kareem's 50+ point post-season games? What? What was that again? I can't hear you. Oh, he didn't have ANY. How about Wilt? FOUR, and THREE of them came in "must-win" games, too.

Give me a list of all of the 40-30 games that Kareem had in his post-seasons? Yep, I thought so...ZERO. Wilt? He had FOUR just against Russell (and 55 in his career regular season and post-seasons.)

In any case, and once again for those that missed it earlier...


A PRIME Kareem faced MANY of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain faced...

Where is HIS 100 point game against Imhoff? How about a 66 point game, on 29-35 shooting (and in his 11th season) against Jim Fox? Where is HIS 60 point game against Dierking (again, Wilt accomplished that feat long after he was in his scoring prime...and in fact, just a year before Kareem joined the NBA)?

Where is Kareem's 40.1 ppg average and in NINE H2H games in one season against Reed? Where are the games in which Kareem outscored Reed by 52-23 and 58-28 margins?

Where are the FOUR 60+ point games (with a HIGH game of 73 points, to go along with 36 rebounds) that Wilt pounded 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy with?

And how about Nate Thurmond? A PRIME Kareem faced Thurmond in 43 career H2H starts (and several after Nate was past his prime.) He had SEVEN 30+ point games against Thurmond, with a HIGH game of 34 points.

How about a PRIME "scoring" Wilt against Nate? In 11 STRAIGHT games in the mid-60's (including the first one in his '67 season, when he no longer was shooting nearly as much), Chamberlain had SIX 30+ point games...of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 (outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.)

Oh, and Kareem faced Thurmond in three straight post-seasons, and shot .486, .428, and a ghastly .405. Chamberlain faced Thurmond in three post-season series, and outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and an astounding .560 to .343.



How come a PRIME Kareem struggled against an OLD Wilt, Thurmond, Gilmore, and was badly outplayed by Moses...and yet,...

A 38-39 year old Kareem, and in TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem, AVERAGED 32 ppg on, get this... .630 shooting. And in those TEN STRAIGHT games, Kareem had SIX games of 30+, and THREE of 40+? And in the same week that Kareem was crushing Hakeem with a 46 point game, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes...he outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting Patrick, 15-22 to 3-17?

BTW, a 35 amd 36 year old Gilmore, in TEN STRAIGHT H2H games against Hakeem in those same '84-85 and 85-86 seasons, averaged 23.7 ppg on, get this, .677 shooting (Hakeem was at 18.7 ppg on .493 shooting BTW.)

But, yes, Kareem probably shooting around .430 against Thurmond in his 43 career H2H matchups, and shooting .464 against Wilt in their 28 H2H career H2H's was "weak" competition...

:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why do you always hijack threads about Wilt?

[Deuce Bigalow]

In the decade of the 70's, which was the weakest era for champions in NBA history, Kareem took two teams to a Finals, and won ONE ring.

Magic won THREE FMVP IN the Kareem-era, and should have won a fourth in '88. Take Magic out of the equation, and Kareem retires with one ring, and probably around the mid-80's...and his career a HUGE disappointment.
Kind of like WIlt. Only won two rings in an era where he was playing against 6'8" average centers, whom nearly all were scrubs.
George Mikan dominated more than Wilt in his weak era. Atleast he won 5 championships.

[Asukal]

OMG! Don't you have any shame jlauber? Stop turning threads into a Wilt **** svcking thread please.... :facepalm

On topic, I was too young to watch the early 80s games so I vote for Hakeem's 94 run. Considering the competition and the stats, Hakeem did really great. :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

OMG! Don't you have any shame jlauber? Stop turning threads into a Wilt **** svcking thread please.... :facepalm

On topic, I was too young to watch the early 80s games so I vote for Hakeem's 94 run. Considering the competition and the stats, Hakeem did really great. :applause:
He doesn't have shame. I don't understand the guy. How can you be so obsessed over a dead guy who last played a NBA game 39 years ago?

And thanks for the vote.
18 votes so far. 1995 Hakeem leading the way with 7 votes.

[dunksby]

God damn I hate jlaube with a passion, it's bad I gotta scroll down his wall of texts, he turns every god damn thread into a Wilt's decayed **** sucking fest. MFer now has the nerve to disrespect the GOAT basketball player of all time!
Kareem>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wilt, yes it aint ****n close.

[dunksby]

I'm voting for Kareem's 1971 run.

[oolalaa]

Jerry West, 1969.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jerry West, 1969.
It's a shame he didn't win the Championship. 37.9 ppg in the Finals and 42/13/12 in Game 7.

I know Jordan averaged 41.0 ppg in the '93 Finals, which is #1 highest ppg in an NBA Finals. But is West's 37.9 ppg in the '69 Finals #2?

[caliman]

Am I the only one that lol'd when I saw Chauncey Billups' sorry ass stats after reading all of these amazing "all time greats" stats, all of the 30+ PPG's and 15+ RPG's?


Exhibit A of why Ben Wallace should have been FMVP. And if not him then Rip.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I want to ultimately create a top 10 of the greatest playoff runs of alltime voted by InsideHoops

So I'll make a #2 thread soon. If you have not voted yet vote now.

It's the offseason now so I dont know what else to post about :D

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem didn't even lead the Rockets in Win shares in 1995 in the playoffs.

[Duncan21formvp]

I want to say MJ in '91, but Hakeem's name is beckoning for that '95 performance. He did that against a young Shaquille O'Neal being the primary defender on him, so that's just goddamn impressive. :applause:

Yeah but Jordan had to beat the 2x defending champions and arguably the player who was a top 3 all time in Magic in the next round.