Chase Budinger traded to Minnesota for 18th Pick

[UtahJazzFan88]

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/217617053606084608


Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Minnesota has agreed to trade the 18th overall pick in Thursday's draft to Houston for Chase Budinger, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Budinger for the 18th pick? :kobe:

[GOBB]

:roll: How on Earth?

[UtahJazzFan88]

:roll: How on Earth?

No kidding. If it was Courtney Lee, maybe even Patrick Patterson I'd understand but Budinger? :roll:

[InspiredLebowski]

Well, Sota's wings are ****ing dreadful I guess. Still, wouldn't think Budinger's worth that.

Houston's got 3 top 20 picks now.

[Grinder]

I don't understand this for Minnesota. Sure Budinger gives them 3 point shooting and athleticism, but they've got Martell Webster, Wayne Ellington, and Wes Johnson who are supposed to do the same. They could have easily been able to get someone like Terrence Ross, Quincy Miller, Perry Jones, or Terrence Jones at that spot and trade for a better SG.

The Rockets now have 3 mid first round picks to combine in a trade.

[Vienceslav]

Improved 26 spots!:roll:

[UtahJazzFan88]

Guess this means the Dwight to Houston rumors are going to ramp up even more. Houston could trade two of these for a top 10 pick possibly to lure Orlando into accepting a trade.

Trade 14 + 16, possibly 18th Pick for Sacramento's 5.
Trade 5th Pick + Lowry + Martin + Dalembert for Dwight + Hedo.

Houston line-up: C - Dwight, PF - Scola, SF - Parsons, SG - Lee, PG - Dragic. Key Bench Players: Hedo, Patterson
Magic line-up: C - Drummond, PF - Anderson, SF - J-Rich/Martin, SG - J-Rich/Martin, PG - Lowry.

[HylianNightmare]

why the **** does houston do this?

[InspiredLebowski]

If Budinger's worth 18 then NO can have Collison back for 10

[GOBB]

I read Minnesota also got some guy named Lior Eliyahu. Anyone know who the hell he is? I went to draftexpress to look him up, he is compared to Bucks Illyasova

[InspiredLebowski]

I read Minnesota also got some guy named Lior Eliyahu. Anyone know who the hell he is? I went to draftexpress to look him up, he is compared to Bucks IllyasovaI know that the dude's already 26 years old and signed a 5 year deal with Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2010

[CLTHornets4eva]

why the **** does houston do this?

B/C they are desperate to get picks to try to get Dwight. Fairly bold.

[UtahJazzFan88]

why the **** does houston do this?

Why wouldn't Houston do this? They're getting away with highway robbery. Guys like Budinger are pretty easy to get. They're getting the 18th pick which they can turn and cash-in to get a lottery pick.

[Dolphin]

The one thing I took from this thread is that I totally forgot Patrick Patterson existed. :roll:

[Grinder]

I read Minnesota also got some guy named Lior Eliyahu. Anyone know who the hell he is? I went to draftexpress to look him up, he is compared to Bucks Illyasova

He's a really athletic and energetic power forward. Good hustle player, has some unorthodox flip shots around the basket but he's a got a knack for making them. The problem is he's pretty weak for the 4 spot and a poor shooter. He'll never be anywhere near the shooter Ilyasova is.

I think he probably has an NBA out clause in his contract and he wouldn't be a bad guy to have off the bench if he wants to come over.

[franchise#3]

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[PJR]

Morey is really going to trade for Dwight Howard. And is going to royally pissed when he exists stage left after 1 year.

[spiegel]

Morey you magnaficent bastard!

[InspiredLebowski]

DraftExpress says Lior Eliyahu will play on Sota's summer league squad

[niko]

This is the thing if you are Dwight Howard. More than likely, the Nets are not a trade partner due to Billy King's shortsightedness. LA, do you try to get either team involved? Or NY? OR just go to Houston.

Because the issue i see here is if it's December and your back acts up again, and you are Howard, do you risk FA? Are the Nets going to wait? (Asking Deron to wait might be akin to asking Deron to go to Dallas.)

It's interesting.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Morey is really going to trade for Dwight Howard. And is going to royally pissed when he exists stage left after 1 year.

And if he signs Deron Williams. :bowdown:

Howard
Scola
Parsons
Martin
Williams

[stax]

The awkward moment when the Wolves team is entirely made up of white players... it's coming. :lol

[El Kabong]

Good for Houston.

[Sammobile]

If Budinger's worth 18 then NO can have Collison back for 10

:oldlol:

We're not Minnesota

[KB2009Champ]

The awkward moment when the Wolves team is entirely made up of white players... it's coming. :lol


Was just thinking this.:oldlol: :oldlol:

I mean I know its MINN but wow.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

This is the thing if you are Dwight Howard. More than likely, the Nets are not a trade partner due to Billy King's shortsightedness. LA, do you try to get either team involved? Or NY? OR just go to Houston.

Because the issue i see here is if it's December and your back acts up again, and you are Howard, do you risk FA? Are the Nets going to wait? (Asking Deron to wait might be akin to asking Deron to go to Dallas.)

It's interesting.

Haha this bastard can rot in Houston as far as I m concerned...

He signed the papers at trade deadline cause Vedos told him he will be a laker by end trade deadline...

I have never seen in history of nba that a player doesn't want to be a laker...

I m hoping deron makes his own decision tough instead of waiting for this idiot

[niko]

If Houston could get Howard, do they become a potential Deron Williams FA target? Is that reasonable?

[ScarSymmetry]

The deal brings in a veteran perimeter player that coach Rick Adelman knows well from his days as a coach with the Rockets

Since when did 2 years in the NBA make one a veteran? :biggums:

[niko]

Haha this bastard can rot in Houston as at as I know...

He signed the papers at trade deadline cause Vedos told him he will be a laker by end trade deadline...

I have never seen in history of nba that a player doesn't want to be a laker...

I m hoping deron makes his own decision tough instead of waiting for this idiot
I think Deron wants to be a Laker, you just don't have assets to get him. Same way Howard wants to be a Net and they don't have assets.

[FireMcFailPlease]

I cant defend this one at all. we beat houston 3 outta 4 times this year..and budinger probably had 8 total baskets. stupid. first no lottery and now no draft pick..fml

[B-Easy8]

Can Houston fans please tell me about Budinger?

Our wings are bad but it's not like this is an upgrade. Ellington can score, plays little defense and doesn't pass which from what I hear is exactly the same as Budinger. I watched the Budinger twice this season against the Wolves and both times he got absolutely destroyed by Beasley. Fair enough if Beasley was hot but he was just doing the same 2 moves over and over again and Budinger would either foul him or just let him do it. He did hit open 3's though which is more than I can say about Wes or Webster. I guess this means we are letting Beasley walk which in my opinion is extremely dumb and instead we will be stuck with 4 below average wings. We should have asked for Lee instead.

Rockets just ravaged us.

[hawkfan]

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/217617053606084608



Budinger for the 18th pick? :kobe:

Is there any shooter at the 18th pick better than Budinger? That's the real test for this trade.

Draft experts can inform on this question.

[hawkfan]

Can Houston fans please tell me about Budinger?

Our wings are bad but it's not like this is an upgrade. Ellington can score, plays little defense and doesn't pass which from what I hear is exactly the same as Budinger. I watched the Budinger twice this season against the Wolves and both times he got absolutely destroyed by Beasley. Fair enough if Beasley was hot but he was just doing the same 2 moves over and over again and Budinger would either foul him or just let him do it. He did hit open 3's though which is more than I can say about Wes or Webster. I guess this means we are letting Beasley walk which in my opinion is extremely dumb and instead we will be stuck with 4 below average wings. We should have asked for Lee instead.

Rockets just ravaged us.

Trade for Joe Johnson. Send out Beasley, Milcic and Wesley Johnson (plus a 2nd round pick) for Joe.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Big move from Houston - can Orlando get a better offer than 3 mid-teen picks, Martin's expirer and Lowry? Houston could then sign Deron (probably) and then they'd still have Scola and probably enough to sign a decent shooter.

[B-Easy8]

Trade for Joe Johnson. Send out Beasley, Milcic and Wesley Johnson (plus a 2nd round pick) for Joe.

I would love to do that but I think Beasley is gone and I don't think he will re sign to get traded to Atlanta.

[hawkfan]

If Houston could get Howard, do they become a potential Deron Williams FA target? Is that reasonable?

Definitely.

[fatboy11]

Can Houston fans please tell me about Budinger?

Our wings are bad but it's not like this is an upgrade. Ellington can score, plays little defense and doesn't pass which from what I hear is exactly the same as Budinger. I watched the Budinger twice this season against the Wolves and both times he got absolutely destroyed by Beasley. Fair enough if Beasley was hot but he was just doing the same 2 moves over and over again and Budinger would either foul him or just let him do it. He did hit open 3's though which is more than I can say about Wes or Webster. I guess this means we are letting Beasley walk which in my opinion is extremely dumb and instead we will be stuck with 4 below average wings. We should have asked for Lee instead.

Rockets just ravaged us.

Budinger is like a more athletic Martell Webster.

Yes, you got the rape here. I like Budinger off the bench, but for the 18th pick in a fairly deep draft as far as contributors goes, this is awesome.

[kaiteng]

Yeah, the only reason they get Budinger we can think of should be that Beasley would be moved very soon.

[spiegel]

Can Houston fans please tell me about Budinger?

Our wings are bad but it's not like this is an upgrade. Ellington can score, plays little defense and doesn't pass which from what I hear is exactly the same as Budinger. I watched the Budinger twice this season against the Wolves and both times he got absolutely destroyed by Beasley. Fair enough if Beasley was hot but he was just doing the same 2 moves over and over again and Budinger would either foul him or just let him do it. He did hit open 3's though which is more than I can say about Wes or Webster. I guess this means we are letting Beasley walk which in my opinion is extremely dumb and instead we will be stuck with 4 below average wings. We should have asked for Lee instead.

Rockets just ravaged us.
Grea shooter wih good atheletic ability in particular in the open court. Moves well off the ball and is a good finishing around the bucket.However he plays no defense and is a terrible rbounder for his size. With a guy like Rubio he will be a solid role player.

[Droid101]

Budinger is much better than Martell, Wes Johnson, Ellington, basically anyone the Wolves had at the wing.

Worth the 18th? I don't know.

Could be a good trade or could backfire. We'll see who gets picked in the 18-21 range and compare.

[bagelred]

Morey does it again. :bowdown: Every trade he makes teams give up first rounders for no reason. I don't know how he does it.

A first rounder for Budinger? Who's only got one more year on his rookie scale? :hammerhead:Morey plays the cap space game better than anyone. Manages to get rookies on board. Locks 2nd round picks up for four years on minimum contracts. And trades players just at right time to get more assets back.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

I think Deron wants to be a Laker, you just don't have assets to get him. Same way Howard wants to be a Net and they don't have assets.

The 1st step towards that is getting Howard out of the way by draft... I don't think Jim buss I trading Bynum for Howard

Next thing would be to pick a package to satisfy the nets ... Would Derrick Williams/pekovic

Or pau to Philly 4 iggy... Iggy to gsw for #7

Thing is they might find a 3rd team to satisfy nets needs

Anyway Bynum/Kobe /deron would be so much potent

[bluechox2]

Big move from Houston - can Orlando get a better offer than 3 mid-teen picks, Martin's expirer and Lowry? Houston could then sign Deron (probably) and then they'd still have Scola and probably enough to sign a decent shooter.

they would lose lowry in a trade for a top 10 pick and trade 2 teen picks for another top 10 (probably sac)

then pair the 2 picks and salary(scola/martin) for dwight

anyone know how much cap space they will be left with?

probably can lure dwill

[BlackWhiteGreen]

they would lose lowry in a trade for a top 10 pick and trade 2 teen picks for another top 10 (probably sac)

then pair the 2 picks and salary(scola/martin) for dwight

anyone know how much cap space they will be left with?

probably can lure dwill

Aside from Lowry, Martin and Scola, they have about $6m in contracts... and that's if they extend the qualifying offer to Courtney Lee.

Not sure Orlando would want additional salary when Houston don't have to give it up. Maybe Martin for his expiring contract, might be useful in a later trade.

[brantonli]

I bet Minny only accepted because Adelman was high on Budinger in Houston and still wants him in Minny. but dayum the 18th pick? Nice move, now we potentially keep 1 mid draft pick and still have two to throw into trades.

Budinger is quite athletic, pretty good three point shooter. However his defense is mediocre, but he did decently well in Adelman's motion offenses.

[stallionaire]

18th pick to Houston for Chase Budinger... I kinda like it. a proven guy who has legs to be in our pick n roll system. (more proven than a college kid who will go at 18th spot)

getting big men is never a bad idea either, we can back teams down in the post effectively already as it is with Pek and Love and this'll help even more.

he can also shoot the 3, at a nice 42%

last game of the season he went 5/9 on 3s and scored 27 so if adelman can develop him we have a guy who can roam the offense on the perimeter and inside.

good trade

Rubio
Roy
Williams/Budinger
Love
Pekovic


Barea/Lee
Ridnour/Ellington
Wes Johnson/Webster
Randolph/Tolliver
Milicic


Not bad... I'd like us to move Barea and someone else for a competent 3 though.

[bagelred]

Oooooooooooooooh, I didn't even make the Adelman/Houston connection. :hammerhead: Becomes a little clearer.

[lilgodfather1]

Minnesota is pathetic. Anderson Varejao for #1 overall should be enough to get it done. While we are at it we should trade Omri Casspi for Sacremento's number 5.

[pegasus]

Good trade for both sides. Budinger is tall and athletic and one of the best shooters in the league.

Still I don't think the Rockets have enough to pull the Howard trade.

[Rake2204]

Others skipped the basketball analysis and noted the 2012-13 Wolves potential to trot out a white-out lineup of Rubio, Luke Ridnour, Budinger, Kevin Love, and Nikola Pekovic. SLAM Magazine's Myles Brown tweeted that the Wolves "might play this next season in khakis."

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/06/wolves_acquire_chase_budinger_white_guy_who_dunked _over_p_diddy_at_dunk_contest_video.php

[PleezeBelieve]

Wolves already have 12 lottery picks on their roster. You think they're missing out on something by making this deal?

You dudes and the over-valuing of draft picks has got to stop.

[Rake2204]

Just for the sake of curiosity, I wanted to take a look at what kind of players have been drafted in the 18 slot over the years:

2011: Chris Singleton
2010: Eric Bledsoe
2009: Ty Lawson
2008: JaVale McGee
2007: Marco Belinelli
2006: Oleksiy Pecherov
2005: Gerald Green
2004: J.R. Smith
2003: David West
2002: Curtis Borchardt
2001: Jason Collins
2000: Quentin Richardson
1999: James Posey

It seems the 18th slot has been a hell of a hot spot the last 10 years or so. That draft position throughout the '90's turned up a ton of horrible talent (Mirsad Turkcan, John Wallace, Luther Wright, Chris Antsey, Eric Mobley, Kevin Brooks, Duane Causwell - with Theo Ratliff mixed in between).

[TheMarkMadsen]

18th pick to Houston for Chase Budinger... I kinda like it. a proven guy who has legs to be in our pick n roll system. (more proven than a college kid who will go at 18th spot)

getting big men is never a bad idea either, we can back teams down in the post effectively already as it is with Pek and Love and this'll help even more.

he can also shoot the 3, at a nice 42%

last game of the season he went 5/9 on 3s and scored 27 so if adelman can develop him we have a guy who can roam the offense on the perimeter and inside.

good trade

Rubio
Roy
Williams/Budinger
Love
Pekovic


Barea/Lee
Ridnour/Ellington
Wes Johnson/Webster
Randolph/Tolliver
Pekovic


Not bad... I'd like us to move Barea and someone else for a competent 3 though.


Roy?

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/06/wolves_acquire_chase_budinger_white_guy_who_dunked _over_p_diddy_at_dunk_contest_video.php



Wow, maybe the every other NBA team should come out in du rags & the winning team in the finals has all of their un paid child support cleared up!

How much more stereotyped can you get?

[B-Easy8]

Alright from what I have heard is that he is a premier shooter and athlete that doesn't play a lot of defense. He will probably start at the 2 next season then as that is exactly what we need from a wing. I wasn't fussed about giving away the 18th pick as it could be very hit or miss. Now we need to trade Webster or Barea for a backup C.

I still think Wes will start so I don't think the all white starting 5 will happen.

[el gringos]

Good trade for both sides. Budinger is tall and athletic and one of the best shooters in the league.

Still I don't think the Rockets have enough to pull the Howard trade.
I don't think they have enough to pull off the trade for Dwight either- no single young headliner for that trade. (no gallinari / favors type)

Motiejunas is the secret weapon though. I think he has more value that the 14 th pick. And Lowry is at peak value so those 2 and picks is a great deal but I think the magic would have to play it safer w Lopez or Bynum.


They have enough for amare though

[SilkkTheShocker]

Stupid trade for T-wolves. They are going to stay bad.

[stallionaire]

Roy?

I meant Milicic for backup Center.. and I jumped the gun on the Roy thing. I'm just hoping the rumors are true about us offering him something big. He should come here.

[stallionaire]

Stupid trade for T-wolves. They are going to stay bad.

I don't think you know anything about Budinger. As a Wolves fan, the idea of a forward that is fast and tall like Chase is going to be great because of the fact that he can shoot 3s.

Chase would fit in well with Adelman's system as he has experience with it already.

Rubio needs guys that can sit on the perimeter and use their legs to cut to the basket. Chase plays above the rim and if he can develop softer hands for the ball it'll be a great tandem.

Think about Wes Johnson: him and Rubio would link up great if Wes played to his potential skills which are being fast, long, and with shooting skills mixed in there.

Wes hasn't been able to live up to his expectations and if he had made a few more shots every game our record would have been great pre-Rubio injury.

Chase is proven. 42% from downtown, plays great around the basket, and he's got a motor to boot.


I'll take Chase over whichever kid falls at the 18th spot.

Remember guys : Love could exercise his option in his 3rd year. We don't need anymore rookies.

[stallionaire]

Alright from what I have heard is that he is a premier shooter and athlete that doesn't play a lot of defense. He will probably start at the 2 next season then as that is exactly what we need from a wing. I wasn't fussed about giving away the 18th pick as it could be very hit or miss. Now we need to trade Webster or Barea for a backup C.

I still think Wes will start so I don't think the all white starting 5 will happen.

LOL that's what I thought about at first too. It could if Adelman wants Chase at his natural 3 spot.

Rubio
Ridnour
Budinger
Love
Pekovic

lol :coleman:

[TheMarkMadsen]

I meant Milicic for backup Center.. and I jumped the gun on the Roy thing. I'm just hoping the rumors are true about us offering him something big. He should come here.


That'd be legit. I honestly believe that with a solid sg, this team could be a serious contender in a year or two.

JJ would be perfect, but idk how they'd aquire him. A guy like Marcus Thorton would be good aswell.

[R.I.P.]

Under the new CBA ddraft picks become so much more valuable that I actually expected teams to really sit tight on them and the Wolves just gave one away for Burdinger. You

[stallionaire]

Whoever is taken at the 18th this year will not have a better rookie-sophomore year than Budingers next 2 years here in Minny...

[Clippersfan86]

5 white guys starting :bowdown: . Seriously though people need to calm down. The Wolves have a bright ass future with Rubio+Love and adding solid role players isn't going to hurt them. Maybe not a good trade but also not a setback most likely.

[fatboy11]

Whoever is taken at the 18th this year will not have a better rookie-sophomore year than Budingers next 2 years here in Minny...

Keep telling yourself that.

Budinger was a 2nd round pick. He's lucky to still be in the NBA, let alone getting traded for a pick before #20 in the 1st round.

Reality is that the #18 pick has an excellent chance to be as good or better than Budinger. Ty Lawson was drafted at #18, JaVale McGee was drafted at #18, Marco Belinelli was drafted at #18, etc. That is a spot to get a good player.

[stallionaire]

Keep telling yourself that.

Budinger was a 2nd round pick. He's lucky to still be in the NBA, let alone getting traded for a pick before #20 in the 1st round.

Reality is that the #18 pick has an excellent chance to be as good or better than Budinger. Ty Lawson was drafted at #18, JaVale McGee was drafted at #18, Marco Belinelli was drafted at #18, etc. That is a spot to get a good player.

It's a team sport. I think Chase's skillset makes him superior than a lot of the 1st round guys with similar builds.

Adelman coached him so we can't deny he had a hand in bringing him over.

Like I said, he'll fit in a lot better than a rookie would at this stage. The next 3 years are crucial for this franchise. Chase won't hurt us as much as a rookie would right now, he'll only help.

[Clippersfan86]

You guys are talking to a Clippers fan who is used to lottery every year. Sometimes adding the more established player (going into 3rd season is still somewhat experienced) is more valuable than adding a new rookie to integrate. Plus Budinger knows how to play for Adelman. He may be an inconsistent role player but he's a good fit because he can bang down 3's and is a very solid playmaker/passer. I envision him being a good fit.

[stallionaire]

No more toiling. Once Rubio is healthy our next stop is to the playoffs....

Now all we need is a shooting guard before we put the Western Conference on notice...

Timberwolves are here...

[TMT]

Houston going all out for Dwight is going to end up biting them in the ass.

[B-Easy8]

LOL that's what I thought about at first too. It could if Adelman wants Chase at his natural 3 spot.

Rubio
Ridnour
Budinger
Love
Pekovic

lol :coleman:

That would be the GOAT worst defensive team. Rubio is a good defender, Pek is average and the other 3 are all bad. We need Wes for perimeter D and rebounding. All he needs to do is consistently hit 1-2 3's a game, his defense is already good.

[fatboy11]

It's a team sport. I think Chase's skillset makes him superior than a lot of the 1st round guys with similar builds.

Adelman coached him so we can't deny he had a hand in bringing him over.

Like I said, he'll fit in a lot better than a rookie would at this stage. The next 3 years are crucial for this franchise. Chase won't hurt us as much as a rookie would right now, he'll only help.

As a Rocket fan, let me tell you that he impact he will make on your team in the short term will not outweigh the potential of anyone available at #18.

Justify it any way you want, but that's what the situation is. You're trading a potentially greater player with a much higher ceiling for a guy that pretty much is what he is two years into his NBA career. And what he is is a decent scorer wing that is not a good defender or passer. There are literally dozens upon dozens of guys like him out there. He's not the type of guy you trade a good draft pick for. I'm sorry. I don't know if you're just in shock or what, but this isn't a good move by the Wolves.

[Clippersfan86]

As a Rocket fan, let me tell you that he impact he will make on your team in the short term will not outweigh the potential of anyone available at #18.

Justify it any way you want, but that's what the situation is. You're trading a potentially greater player with a much higher ceiling for a guy that pretty much is what he is two years into his NBA career. And what he is is a decent scorer wing that is not a good defender or passer. There are literally dozens upon dozens of guys like him out there. He's not the type of guy you trade a good draft pick for. I'm sorry. I don't know if you're just in shock or what, but this isn't a good move by the Wolves.

Rockets won the trade no question but as I said an 18 pick isn't going to set a franchise back years or anything.

[stallionaire]

As a Rocket fan, let me tell you that he impact he will make on your team in the short term will not outweigh the potential of anyone available at #18.

Justify it any way you want, but that's what the situation is. You're trading a potentially greater player with a much higher ceiling for a guy that pretty much is what he is two years into his NBA career. And what he is is a decent scorer wing that is not a good defender or passer. There are literally dozens upon dozens of guys like him out there. He's not the type of guy you trade a good draft pick for. I'm sorry. I don't know if you're just in shock or what, but this isn't a good move by the Wolves.

Come be our GM. You obviously know more than our front office then.

[fatboy11]

Houston going all out for Dwight is going to end up biting them in the ass.

So what?

At this point, it's time to do something drastic. How many years are the Rockets going to be on the outside looking in on the playoffs? It's time to gamble on something HUGE or start over.

[fatboy11]

Rockets won the trade no question but as I said an 18 pick isn't going to set a franchise back years or anything.

No one said it was.

But that doesn't mean it isn't a bad move, right?

[stallionaire]

So what?

At this point, it's time to do something drastic. How many years are the Rockets going to be on the outside looking in on the playoffs? It's time to gamble on something HUGE or start over.

That's how I feel about the Wolves only because of Love's option. I'm done dealing with high upside potential rookies who end up laying eggs.

[fatboy11]

Come be our GM. You obviously know more than our front office then.

Solid argument.

NBA GMs never make bad moves, do they? Especially David Kahn....

[PJR]

Come be our GM. You obviously know more than our front office then.

The 18th pick is not guaranteed to be a worthwhile player at all. :oldlol: Budinger is a proven proficient shooter right now.

[Clippersfan86]

No one said it was.

But that doesn't mean it isn't a bad move, right?

I think a "terrible" or "bad" trade usually would have a negative impact on a franchise, yes. I think the Wolves lost the battle in terms of value but there are unlikely to be consequences for it really. I understand how deep this draft is... but odds are against 18 picks being anything good. I know Bledsoe and other recent 18 picks like McGee have become good players but more often then not they will become role players at best which is what Budinger is.

[stallionaire]

Solid argument.

NBA GMs never make bad moves, do they? Especially David Kahn....

It wasn't an argument, come apply to be our GM :lol

Seriously though I think we'll be fine and we can honestly talk about Khan as a GM in 4 years. He has had some blunders but things seem to be looking fine now.

[fatboy11]

That's how I feel about the Wolves only because of Love's option. I'm done dealing with high upside potential rookies who end up laying eggs.

The only problem with is that a high upside potential rookie has more value to you on your roster or being traded for a more valuable player than Chase Budinger. Chase Budinger is essentially James Jones with more playing time and a higher vertical. He's not terribly valuable. The issue here isn't trading the #18 pick, it's who you traded it for.

[pegasus]

White five!:rockon:

[TMT]

So what?

At this point, it's time to do something drastic. How many years are the Rockets going to be on the outside looking in on the playoffs? It's time to gamble on something HUGE or start over.

I wouldn't even call this a risk or a gamble. There's about a 3-5% (if that) chance of this actually happening. Even if by some miracle Orlando agreed and you did get Dwight for next season he isn't going to sign an extension. You'd say goodbye after a season where a playoff berth would be the high point and then you would be back to the drawing board, essentially with all those picks thrown away from the year before and ending up in a worse position then you are now. Yeah, being in the lottery every year sucks but every good team was there at some point obviously. You have have faith that your team will make the right picks and in a few years they will develop into something good.

Makes absolutely no sense to go after a player who isn't going to want to be there.

[fatboy11]

I think a "terrible" or "bad" trade usually would have a negative impact on a franchise, yes. I think the Wolves lost the battle in terms of value but there are unlikely to be consequences for it really. I understand how deep this draft is... but odds are against 18 picks being anything good. I know Bledsoe and other recent 18 picks like McGee have become good players but more often then not they will become role players at best which is what Budinger is.

David West
J.R. Smith
JaVale McGee
Ty Lawson
Marco Belinelli
Quentin Richardson

Jury still out on Bledsoe and Singleton the past two drafts. So, you're potentially looking at 8 players out of the last 12 drafts that are better than Chase Budinger. At minimum, 6 out of 12. So, no, the odds are not against the #18 pick being anything good.

[niko]

I wouldn't even call this a risk or a gamble. There's about a 3-5% (if that) chance of this actually happening. Even if by some miracle Orlando agreed and you did get Dwight for next season he isn't going to sign an extension. You'd say goodbye after a season where a playoff berth would be the high point and then you would be back to the drawing board, essentially with all those picks thrown away from the year before and ending up in a worse position then you are now. Yeah, being in the lottery every year sucks but every good team was there at some point obviously. You have have faith that your team will make the right picks and in a few years they will develop into something good.

Makes absolutely no sense to go after a player who isn't going to want to be there.
Unless he changes his mind. You are operating under the assumption he won't change his mind. He's already changed it five times.

[bagelred]

Rockets won the trade no question but as I said an 18 pick isn't going to set a franchise back years or anything.

Well it's hard to say Rockets "won" the trade because we have no clue what that 18th pick is going to be. However, right now, they have got a better asset than what CB was probably worth....but the analysis changes quickly once a player is actually selected.

[fatboy11]

I wouldn't even call this a risk or a gamble. There's about a 3-5% (if that) chance of this actually happening. Even if by some miracle Orlando agreed and you did get Dwight for next season he isn't going to sign an extension. You'd say goodbye after a season where a playoff berth would be the high point and then you would be back to the drawing board, essentially with all those picks thrown away from the year before and ending in a worse position then you are now.

A) They can trade him at the deadline. They won't let him walk for nothing.
B) They can use the assets on other players.



Yeah, being in the lottery every year sucks but every good team was there at some point obviously. You have have faith that your team will make the right picks and in a few years they will develop into something good.

Makes absolutely no sense to go after a player who isn't going to want to be there.

Picking #14 every year does not get you back in the game. It just doesn't. You get solid players there, but rarely a superstar. Houston has been picking in the lottery a lot, but look where it's gotten them. The end of the lottery doesn't help you build a contender.

[TMT]

Unless he changes his mind. You are operating under the assumption he won't change his mind. He's already changed it five times.

For image perception by his hometown, that's a completely different story. He's seeing his buddies across the NBA teaming up with other stars and I'm sure he wants a piece of that. Going to Houston where they will have to trade away their best assets to get him anyway, it won't be a much different situation than current Orlando.

[fatboy11]

It wasn't an argument, come apply to be our GM :lol

Seriously though I think we'll be fine and we can honestly talk about Khan as a GM in 4 years. He has had some blunders but things seem to be looking fine now.

You were decent for one year and still were among the bottom 3rd of the league. Settle down. Do not get ahead of yourself. Yes, things are looking up, but not good enough to be brushing off any bad moves. Doesn't matter if it's mildly bad or colossally bad. You're at the point where mistakes hurt no matter what.

[fatboy11]

For image perception by his hometown, that's a completely different story. He's seeing his buddies across the NBA teaming up with other stars and I'm sure he wants a piece of that. Going to Houston where they will have to trade away their best assets to get him anyway, it won't be a much different situation than current Orlando.

Unless the Rockets can also convince Deron Williams to come to Houston....

[Clippersfan86]

David West
J.R. Smith
JaVale McGee
Ty Lawson
Marco Belinelli
Quentin Richardson

Jury still out on Bledsoe and Singleton the past two drafts. So, you're potentially looking at 8 players out of the last 12 drafts that are better than Chase Budinger. At minimum, 6 out of 12. So, no, the odds are not against the #18 pick being anything good.

Marco, Smith at this point aren't doing much more than Budinger. All bench players and role players. I didn't say they won't be better players but rather they will probably all be grouped into the category of role player. An A rated role player vs a C rated role player isn't going to make a huge difference on a team in the big picture.

Q Rich, Lawson, McGee and West make it 4 out 12 drafts. 33.3 percent success rate. Regardless take it back to ALL drafts and you'll see far more mid-late 1st rounders are busts or role players at best than starters, all stars and superstars.

Let's not critique the Wolves until we see what 18 pick turns into.

[TMT]

Unless the Rockets can also convince Deron Williams to come to Houston....

I don't see it. I can see the optimism by Rocket fans but from a pure NBA analyst standpoint, it's hard to see a team go from virtually unsuccessful to attracting several superstars without some sort of foundation already laid down there.

You make some good points though. They could trade Dwight before he leaves and get the best value for him, see what other players his presence could attract, ect. But for me if I were Houston I'd be going for more realistic opportunities like Reke and the #5 or something to that effect. That's just me. But I do admire the optimism.

[fatboy11]

Marco, Smith at this point aren't doing much more than Budinger. All bench players and role players. I didn't say they won't be better players but rather they will probably all be grouped into the category of role player. An A rated role player vs a C rated role player isn't going to make a huge difference on a team in the big picture.

Q Rich, Lawson, McGee and West make it 4 out 12 drafts. 33.3 percent success rate. Regardless take it back to ALL drafts and you'll see far more mid-late 1st rounders are busts or role players at best than starters, all stars and superstars.

Let's not critique the Wolves until we see what 18 pick turns into.

Marco sets himself apart of Budinger because he's a 3 point threat. Budinger is a decent 3 point shooter but as much of a threat. Smith is just plain better. He can do too many other things. I'm not letting you off the hook when you dismiss those two.

No one is claiming that #18 will be a superstar, but we know that Chase Budinger is nothing more than a solid role player. There is a decent chance to get a starter at #18. Like I said (but it was glossed over), trade #18 for someone else who provides more value than Budinger. No one is knocking getting rid of the pick, it's who they got rid of it for.

[fatboy11]

I don't see it. I can see the optimism by Rocket fans but from a pure NBA analyst standpoint, it's hard to see a team go from virtually unsuccessful to attracting several superstars without some sort of foundation already laid down there.

You make some good points though. They could trade Dwight before he leaves and get the best value for him, see what other players his presence could attract, ect. But for me if I were Houston I'd be going for more realistic opportunities like Reke and the #5 or something to that effect. That's just me. But I do admire the optimism.

Do not mistake me for having optimism. I do not. I know we are not going to get either Deron or Dwight. I'm just advocating the approach Morey has taken. I think the organization is at the point where they need to go for broke. Swing for the fence. They'll either hit a home run or strike out. There's no doubt we'll have a competitive team every year (in terms of competing for a playoff birth) but that's not enough anymore. That's been the same deal for the last 10 years (for the most part).

[niko]

I don't see it. I can see the optimism by Rocket fans but from a pure NBA analyst standpoint, it's hard to see a team go from virtually unsuccessful to attracting several superstars without some sort of foundation already laid down there.

You make some good points though. They could trade Dwight before he leaves and get the best value for him, see what other players his presence could attract, ect. But for me if I were Houston I'd be going for more realistic opportunities like Reke and the #5 or something to that effect. That's just me. But I do admire the optimism.
I find it funny a Spurs fans can't see it. Think Tony Parker. Personality wise, can you think of anyone who'd want to be in a big city more? He thinks he's a movie star (not a shot at his game, just his personality). BUT he loves SA. Because he grew to appreciate the organization, etc. And most of all, because they win.

Howard, bring him in, and then especially if you can recruit D-Will (why not?, he wants to be near home but worries about being too close. Well Houston is closer but not too close) or J.Smith? Or if he gets afraid of leaving again? OR Deron leaves to Dallas. Brooklyn is not quite as attractive an option.

I think it's a good gamble.

[Clippersfan86]

Marco sets himself apart of Budinger because he's a 3 point threat. Budinger is a decent 3 point shooter but as much of a threat. Smith is just plain better. He can do too many other things. I'm not letting you off the hook when you dismiss those two.

No one is claiming that #18 will be a superstar, but we know that Chase Budinger is nothing more than a solid role player. There is a decent chance to get a starter at #18. Like I said (but it was glossed over), trade #18 for someone else who provides more value than Budinger. No one is knocking getting rid of the pick, it's who they got rid of it for.

I'm willing to do a month long avy bet with you next season that the 18 pick will be nothing more than a role player as well :confusedshrug:.

[TMT]

I find it funny a Spurs fans can't see it. Think Tony Parker. Personality wise, can you think of anyone who'd want to be in a big city more? He thinks he's a movie star (not a shot at his game, just his personality). BUT he loves SA. Because he grew to appreciate the organization, etc. And most of all, because they win.

Howard, bring him in, and then especially if you can recruit D-Will (why not?, he wants to be near home but worries about being too close. Well Houston is closer but not too close) or J.Smith? Or if he gets afraid of leaving again? OR Deron leaves to Dallas. Brooklyn is not quite as attractive an option.

I think it's a good gamble.

Ok, I didn't read your whole post but I'm going to go ahead and stop you at the point where you are comparing Tony's personality to Dwight. Tony Parker has no ego whatsoever. You may assume he has that "movie star" attitude because he dates gorgeous actresses, parties in NY, ect. but like I said before, it's easier to attract players and make them stay when there is already a foundation laid out for your organization. Tony Parker is actually a very humble guy. Our foundation was Pop + Duncan. Now fast forward to current Houston, there is no foundation at all. Brand new coach, no true star, just a mix of vets and young guns on a somewhat unsuccessful squad. There are no pieces there that could make Houston say "Hey Dwight, come here and you'll play next to *fill in player* or play for *fill in coach*". No knock on McHale but he just came off his first year of coaching.

The two players you are comparing and situations you are comparing are like night and day to me.

[fatboy11]

I'm willing to do a month long avy bet with you next season that the 18 pick will be nothing more than a role player as well :confusedshrug:.

As a rookie?

Of course you'll take that bet. Most rookies are role players. It's what that player is capable of in his 2nd year and beyond that makes this a potentially bad trade.

[Funnyfuka]

The awkward moment when the Wolves team is entirely made up of white players... it's coming. :lol
how s that "awkyard"...actually it would make me want to watch the nba more...i have trouble identifying with thug rappers...

[Clippersfan86]

As a rookie?

Of course you'll take that bet. Most rookies are role players. It's what that player is capable of in his 2nd year and beyond that makes this a potentially bad trade.

I don't see any of these 18 picks being starters before 2-3 years. Maybe Chase will have an epiphany and blow up?

[niko]

how s that "awkyard"...actually it would make me want to watch the nba more...i have trouble identifying with thug rappers...
Are all black people thug rappers? What a dumb **** you are.

[senelcoolidge]

Dwight is going to be a Rocket. Adelman liked Budinger when he coached in Houston.

[SpecialQue]

Budinger's lob dunks via Rubio are going to make CP3 and Blake look like a couple of amateurs with nerf balls.

[fos]

Budinger is getting way underrated on this board. People really over-value draft picks... the 18th pick? Look how many lottery picks go bust and we're talking the 18th freaking pick, Houston is the one that got raped. Budinger is a proven commodity.

So I looked up the 18th pick the last 5 seasons and yeah, it sorta backfired on me:

2011 - Chris Singleton
2010 - Eric Bledsoe
2009 - Ty Lawson
2008 - JaVale McGee
2007 - Sean Williams

But still, I wager you that Chase Budinger >>> whoever the Rockets or Magic pick at 18.

[Funnyfuka]

Are all black people thug rappers? What a dumb **** you are.
No.

Just 9 out of ten,

dumb****.

[GOBB]

For image perception by his hometown, that's a completely different story. He's seeing his buddies across the NBA teaming up with other stars and I'm sure he wants a piece of that. Going to Houston where they will have to trade away their best assets to get him anyway, it won't be a much different situation than current Orlando.

Dwight Howard according to SAS has BK Nets as the place he wants to be over any place else. This is with or without Deron Williams. So I dont think Dwight is looking to join forces because his buddies down South Beach teamed up.

Bottomline, with Dwight Howard its hard for anyone including people who claim to have inside scoop/sources to know what goes on in his mind. He's changed it time and time again. Came out publicly and said one thing, then another.

I dont even think we know what Deron Williams plans to do yet.

[niko]

No.

Just 9 out of ten,

dumb****.
you're so stupid. in 2012, you need white people to watch to function. Seriously? I've never had this issue. Then again, i have no serious mental disorders nor were my parents related. :lol

:applause: Come on, you can do a comeback. I said you were stupid, in case you need to cut and paste to think of something again.

Sigh...white people...

[niko]

Dwight Howard according to SAS has BK Nets as the place he wants to be over any place else. This is with or without Deron Williams. So I dont think Dwight is looking to join forces because his buddies down South Beach teamed up.

Bottomline, with Dwight Howard its hard for anyone including people who claim to have inside scoop/sources to know what goes on in his mind. He's changed it time and time again. Came out publicly and said one thing, then another.

I dont even think we know what Deron Williams plans to do yet.
SAS wants Dwight in Brooklyn so i'm not sure he's a good source. He basically refuses to discuss Dwight going to Houston today, just dismisses it. It doesn't fit his world view. It definitely makes sense but its like asking a Mavs fan if Deron likes Dallas.

BTW, best thing today was Nets sending a HAPPY BIRTHDAY DERON billboard and parking it across from Deron's house. Deron, who loves to be left alone, i'm sure he thought that was freaking fantastic.

[GOBB]

SAS wants Dwight in Brooklyn so i'm not sure he's a good source. He basically refuses to discuss Dwight going to Houston today, just dismisses it. It doesn't fit his world view. It definitely makes sense but its like asking a Mavs fan if Deron likes Dallas.

BTW, best thing today was Nets sending a HAPPY BIRTHDAY DERON billboard and parking it across from Deron's house. Deron, who loves to be left alone, i'm sure he thought that was freaking fantastic.

Well you hate the Nets so how much of a good source are you? :roll:

SAS said his sources are people close to Dwight Howard. Bottomline, who do we believe? Its hard for me when it comes to Dwight Howard to believe anyone. Thats why I dont rule anything out.

Nets need to stop making billboards. I still love that blueprint for a dynasty billboard they had put up. Fast forward to today, blueprint for what exactly? Laughter?

[niko]

Well you hate the Nets so how much of a good source are you? :roll:

SAS said his sources are people close to Dwight Howard. Bottomline, who do we believe? Its hard for me when it comes to Dwight Howard to believe anyone. Thats why I dont rule anything out.

Nets need to stop making billboards. I still love that blueprint for a dynasty billboard they had put up. Fast forward to today, blueprint for what exactly? Laughter?
I think Deron stays, haven't deviated from that. But i don't think they get Howard. :confusedshrug: But yeah, you wouldn't use me as a source, think of SAS as a slightly racist me but a Net fan instead of hater. :wtf:

i actually think Howard wants Brooklyn but i doubt he has the balls to make himself a target there. Because as the poster boy of a new team, he'd be a big target.

[TMT]

Dwight Howard according to SAS has BK Nets as the place he wants to be over any place else. This is with or without Deron Williams. So I dont think Dwight is looking to join forces because his buddies down South Beach teamed up.

Bottomline, with Dwight Howard its hard for anyone including people who claim to have inside scoop/sources to know what goes on in his mind. He's changed it time and time again. Came out publicly and said one thing, then another.

I dont even think we know what Deron Williams plans to do yet.

You're telling me that if Deron came out today and said, "I'm going to the Mavs", that Dwight would still want to go to BK? :rolleyes: Dwight wants to play alongside great teammates, it's obvious.

[fatboy11]

I don't see any of these 18 picks being starters before 2-3 years. Maybe Chase will have an epiphany and blow up?

Doesn't sound like a very strong defense.

On the other hand, I've stated several guys drafted at #18 in the last 10 years that were starters within 2-3 years.

:confusedshrug:

[Timmy D for MVP]

With Rubio running the show Budinger could likely find a lot of space and he's a real good shooter. I could see him flourishing pretty nicely in Min, and Adleman already knows him a little.

That said is he worth the 18? I don't see it. What this tells me is that the Wolves FO must have a very specific plan, and none of the 15-20 prospects catch their eye for their specific need. I have no guess as to what that plan is but... the Rockets have picks for days now.

[GOBB]

Niko you're always throwing darts at the Nets. Just like I do with the Knicks. I have admitted 3 teams I hate are Lakers, Celtics, Knicks. Knicks can win the NBA title and my response? About time after all those years of failures. Heck you post more Nets news than Nets fans here, and it aint pro Nets stuff either.


You're telling me that if Deron came out today and said, "I'm going to the Mavs", that Dwight would still want to go to BK? Dwight wants to play alongside great teammates, it's obvious.

I'm telling you that you're speculating what you think these athletes think. Its no different than a Rockets fan thinking get Dwight Howard there and lets see after a season will he decided to stay there. Everybody seems to have things figured out.

And I'm telling you what SAS said. Stephen A Smith. Agree to disagree with him. But he said Dwight wants to go to the Brooklyn Nets. Big city, alpha dog, start over. What Deron decides to do doesnt change that for Dwight. Again you dont buy it? Roll your eyes some more until they get stuck. Thats your right.

What stopped Dwight from being a Laker?

[fatboy11]

Budinger is getting way underrated on this board. People really over-value draft picks... the 18th pick? Look how many lottery picks go bust and we're talking the 18th freaking pick, Houston is the one that got raped. Budinger is a proven commodity.

So I looked up the 18th pick the last 5 seasons and yeah, it sorta backfired on me:

2011 - Chris Singleton
2010 - Eric Bledsoe
2009 - Ty Lawson
2008 - JaVale McGee
2007 - Sean Williams

But still, I wager you that Chase Budinger >>> whoever the Rockets or Magic pick at 18.

So, in the face of facts you still wager against the #18?

I respect your bravery.

Look, it's not a horrible trade. It's just not a good one, so it deserves to be bashed to a reasonable degree. If all you're getting back is Budinger, why even do the trade? That's my whole thing. Get someone a little more valuable than Budinger for that pick.

And there isn't a Rocket fan out there that feels raped right now. We know what Chase Budinger brings to the table.

[niko]

Niko you're always throwing darts at the Nets. Just like I do with the Knicks. I have admitted 3 teams I hate are Lakers, Celtics, Knicks. Knicks can win the NBA title and my response? About time after all those years of failures. Heck you post more Nets news than Nets fans here, and it aint pro Nets stuff either.



I'm telling you that you're speculating what you think these athletes think. Its no different than a Rockets fan thinking get Dwight Howard there and lets see after a season will he decided to stay there. Everybody seems to have things figured out.

And I'm telling you what SAS said. Stephen A Smith. Agree to disagree with him. But he said Dwight wants to go to the Brooklyn Nets. Big city, alpha dog, start over. What Deron decides to do doesnt change that for Dwight. Again you dont buy it? Roll your eyes some more until they get stuck. Thats your right.

What stopped Dwight from being a Laker?

I think the Nets are fascinating. Plus i pass it all the time. They can be great, title contenders THIS YEAR. Or, they can be absolutely sucktastic. Plus i am surrounded by net fans at work, we discuss a lot. Sorry...

Plus my Knicks stress me out which is why i tend to focus on other teams. If i talk Knicks, i feel the need to defend anything i think is a TINY bit wrong and i start arguing and turn into this GOBB like angry philadelphian. :rant

BTW, what is the pro nets stuff to post as of late? Deron MAY stay? They traded the #6 pick for the right to beg Wallace to stay in person rather than by proxy?

[GOBB]

Budinger is getting way underrated on this board. People really over-value draft picks... the 18th pick? Look how many lottery picks go bust and we're talking the 18th freaking pick, Houston is the one that got raped. Budinger is a proven commodity.

So I looked up the 18th pick the last 5 seasons and yeah, it sorta backfired on me:

2011 - Chris Singleton
2010 - Eric Bledsoe
2009 - Ty Lawson
2008 - JaVale McGee
2007 - Sean Williams

But still, I wager you that Chase Budinger >>> whoever the Rockets or Magic pick at 18.

18th pick in a DEEP draft class. Its no gurantee whoever is picked at 18 will be even as good as Chase Budinger. But the 18th pick in 2012 draft class has way more value than Chase Budinger does now.

What does Budinger do that Martell Webster doesnt?

[GOBB]

I think the Nets are fascinating. Plus i pass it all the time. They can be great, title contenders THIS YEAR. Or, they can be absolutely sucktastic. Plus i am surrounded by net fans at work, we discuss a lot. Sorry...

Plus my Knicks stress me out which is why i tend to focus on other teams. If i talk Knicks, i feel the need to defend anything i think is a TINY bit wrong and i start arguing and turn into this GOBB like angry philadelphian. :rant

Iguodala to Nets for Brook Lopez. They'll be closer to title contenders this year than any year. :pimp:

[fatboy11]

18th pick in a DEEP draft class. Its no gurantee whoever is picked at 18 will be even as good as Chase Budinger. But the 18th pick in 2012 draft class has way more value than Chase Budinger does now.

What does Budinger do that Martell Webster doesnt?

Jump higher. Kick ass at beach volleyball.

That's it.

[niko]

yeah, back on topic i'm not sure why this is a good trade for Minny. Seems kind of pointless.

[fatboy11]

yeah, back on topic i'm not sure why this is a good trade for Minny. Seems kind of pointless.

Yep.

And if you aren't getting better, you're getting worse.

The only argument being made against the 18th pick is that it could turn out to be someone not as good as Budinger, and that's a pretty weak argument. Budinger is not a unique player. You can find guys like him pretty easily.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Well it wasn't just Billy Hoyle, but they got Lior Eliyahu too. Who's a pretty decent international prospect. 2 for 1, and lets be honest, Bud slipped, he probably should have went early 2nd, maybe late 1st.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Budinger does have some upside guys. Lets not over look this. He can shoot the lights out and is extremely athletic. Still very young.

Minnesota is thinking something that we're all missing. Now is it something smart? Idk, I don't like this trade, but I just feel like the FO looked at what players they thought would be left and didn't like the fit.

[fatboy11]

Budinger is a lights-out shooter now?

[Timmy D for MVP]

Budinger is a lights-out shooter now?

He needs to get into rhythm, but when he heats up yes. He can elevate over the top of most defenders as well.

The problem is he cannot create for himself. That's why I think Minny will be a better fit. He will be getting open looks, I'm assuming his shot selection will improve because of it.

[fatboy11]

He needs to get into rhythm, but when he heats up yes. He can elevate over the top of most defenders as well.

The problem is he cannot create for himself. That's why I think Minny will be a better fit. He will be getting open looks, I'm assuming his shot selection will improve because of it.

Until he does that, he's a streak shooter.

A guy that can shoot lights out when he's in rhythm is a streak shooter and guys like that are fairly common.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Until he does that, he's a streak shooter.

A guy that can shoot lights out when he's in rhythm is a streak shooter and guys like that are fairly common.

Idk, I think he's a better shooter than he gets credit for.

But again. If that was a need they wanted to address the question becomes do they feel like the could have filled that hole with the pick?

[Droid101]

Budinger is a lights-out shooter now?
40% from three on the season.

He's a fine player on a bargain contract.

[stallionaire]

900 k contract and 42% spot shooter who can drive inside and play above the rim. He will continue to develop and this system is right for him.

I don't love this trade but I don't hate it. Let's see what happens.

We just offered Roy a contract so let's see if he signs. We're a 2 away from the playoffs if Rubio is healhty.

[fatboy11]

40% from three on the season.

He's a fine player on a bargain contract.

He's a fine player on a bargain contract, but he's a streak shooter. Lights-out shooters shoot at at least a 45% clip and above. There's no doubt he's a good shooter, but this guy ain't Steve Novak.

[MK2V1GP]

He's a fine player on a bargain contract, but he's a streak shooter. Lights-out shooters shoot at at least a 45% clip and above. There's no doubt he's a good shooter, but this guy ain't Steve Novak.

How many guys in the NBA shoot over 45% from the 3 on a consistent basis?

Six did this year alone, and of those six, three of them attempted less than 120 3's all season.



Aside from the fact that most players are "streak shooters."

[stallionaire]

How many guys in the NBA shoot over 45% from the 3 on a consistent basis?

Six did this year alone, and of those six, three of them attempted less than 120 3's all season.



Aside from the fact that most players are "streak shooters."

Dude's talking out of his ass. :applause:

[fatboy11]

How many guys in the NBA shoot over 45% from the 3 on a consistent basis?

Six did this year alone, and of those six, three of them attempted less than 120 3's all season.



Aside from the fact that most players are "streak shooters."

Exactly my point.

The term "lights-out shooter" shouldn't apply to too many guys because a lot of guys are streak shooters.

That's exactly what I've been getting at.....

[fatboy11]

Dude's talking out of his ass. :applause:

I'm really not.

I just know what I'm talking about.

[stallionaire]

Lior Eliyahu video.... we got his rights in this trade as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrNibG6gp8A

[MK2V1GP]

Exactly my point.

The term "lights-out shooter" shouldn't apply to too many guys because a lot of guys are streak shooters.

That's exactly what I've been getting at.....

You misunderstood the intent of my post. Yeah, it's great to shoot over 45% but I wouldn't consider that the cut-off. Shooting 38% and higher from 3 in the NBA is a very respectable number. To say that a player who shoots 42% from 3 but is a streaky shooter is pretty nuts.


I'm not saying Budinger's a lights-out shooter. I think he's solid from 3, not great, not bad.

At first, I didn't like the trade, but now it's ok to me. It would've been more exciting to see who Minny would've taken at 18, but they've never been the best at drafting. So it's better to get a proven player who you know what you're getting and will be a good fit rather than a rookie with who you don't know what you're getting.

[stallionaire]

Budinger shot chart in the corner:
http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Chase-shooting-chart.jpeg




Wes Johnson's Shot Chart... notice his corner shots:
http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Wes-Shooting-Chart.jpeg



Timberwolves team shot chart....
http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Wolves-shooting-chart.jpeg



Put chase on the wing and i'll tell you this: we're gonna win more games. Most of our losses lass season when Rubio was in were games where we shot our 3s like this...

[stallionaire]

I'm really not.

I just know what I'm talking about.

Budinger is a fine 3pt shooter. You're wrong. He took 219 and made 88 of them this season. He's fine.

[fatboy11]

You misunderstood the intent of my post. Yeah, it's great to shoot over 45% but I wouldn't consider that the cut-off. Shooting 38% and higher from 3 in the NBA is a very respectable number. To say that a player who shoots 42% from 3 but is a streaky shooter is pretty nuts.


I'm not saying Budinger's a lights-out shooter. I think he's solid from 3, not great, not bad.

At first, I didn't like the trade, but now it's ok to me. It would've been more exciting to see who Minny would've taken at 18, but they've never been the best at drafting. So it's better to get a proven player who you know what you're getting and will be a good fit rather than a rookie with who you don't know what you're getting.

The only problem is that they traded a mid 1st round pick in a deep draft for a player that's only worth a late 1st rounder at best. Would have liked to see them get someone a little more valuable, and they probably could have done that closer to the draft. This is Adelman trying to get one of his guys in there.

[fatboy11]

Budinger is a fine 3pt shooter. You're wrong. He took 219 and made 88 of them this season. He's fine.

How am I wrong if I didn't say he wasn't a fine 3 point shooter to being with? I never said he was a bad or even mediocre shooter.

I just said he wasn't a lights-out shooter because he isn't. He's good, but not lights-out. That's someone like Ray Allen or Steve Novak.

[stallionaire]

If Terrance Ross falls to 18th I will be upset because we could have done the most with this pick in getting him. If he doesn't I'll LOVE this trade.

[fatboy11]

Budinger shot chart in the corner:
http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Chase-shooting-chart.jpeg




Wes Johnson's Shot Chart... notice his corner shots:
http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Wes-Shooting-Chart.jpeg



Timberwolves team shot chart....
http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Wolves-shooting-chart.jpeg



Put chase on the wing and i'll tell you this: we're gonna win more games. Most of our losses lass season when Rubio was in were games where we shot our 3s like this...

How is Wes Johnson defensively?

[stallionaire]

How am I wrong if I didn't say he wasn't a fine 3 point shooter to being with? I never said he was a bad or even mediocre shooter.

I just said he wasn't a lights-out shooter because he isn't. He's good, but not lights-out. That's someone like Ray Allen or Steve Novak.

He has improved every season from downtown and is entering his 4th season. Why can't he develop and get better as a 3pt scorer? He has the lift and stroke of a great scorer. He will be better next season.

The fact that we acquired a 900k contract 40% 3pt shooter is all I need to hear. We have even more money under the cap going forward without a rookie contract on the books.

[stallionaire]

How is Wes Johnson defensively?

Better than most people think. He's long and fast. Doesn't mean anything when he's starting all season and routinely putting up 0pts a game.

[fatboy11]

He has improved every season from downtown and is entering his 4th season. Why can't he develop and get better as a 3pt scorer? He has the lift and stroke of a great scorer. He will be better next season.

The fact that we acquired a 900k contract 40% 3pt shooter is all I need to hear. We have even more money under the cap going forward without a rookie contract on the books.

He can, but you really need him to work on everything else. Trust me. He's just a role player if he doesn't. He's got the athleticism so it's a shame to see him not defending like he should. He also settles for shots too much when he has the ability to get to the rim and rise up.

And the 18th pick is going to make twice what Budinger does, but that's just 1.5-1.8 or so million for the first 3 years. That's nothing to your cap situation.

[fatboy11]

Better than most people think. He's long and fast. Doesn't mean anything when he's starting all season and routinely putting up 0pts a game.

Then it's a wash because Budinger's lack of defense will cost you games just as his shooting will win you games, by your logic.

[stallionaire]

Then it's a wash because Budinger's lack of defense will cost you games just as his shooting will win you games, by your logic.

I'm hoping he'll be used as a role player for minutes.

[Droid101]

Wes Johnson had an 8 PER last season.

Chase is at 14.9

Other players around an 8 PER: Earl Clark, Bill Walker, Anthony Tolliver, Chris Singleton, Chris Duhon, Mehmet Okur.

Other players around 15 PER: Andre Miller, JJ Barea, Channing Frye, Klay Thompson, Kemba Walker, Mo Williams, Shawn Marion.

If you are drafting a team, you'd pick ALL the players in the second group before you'd even touch anyone in the first.


As stated, we have to wait to see how the 18th pick in the draft performs before we can say anything about this trade.

[stallionaire]

Wes Johnson is the worst player in the NBA who gets as many minutes as he does. Easily.

[Droid101]

Hollinger's take:

Call it a setup move.

The Houston Rockets have agreed to trade Chase Budinger and the rights to Lior Eliyahu to Minnesota for the No. 18 pick in the draft. With picks No. 14, 16 and 18 as well as two first-rounders from a year ago (Marcus Morris and Donatas Motiejunas), Houston hopes to present an overwhelming stockpile of assets to the Magic in return for Dwight Howard ... even if it has no assurances he'll stay more than one season.

This may even be a move that sets up the move that sets up the big move. Houston may very well be looking to package multiple draft picks to move into the lottery, then using that lottery pick as the bait to lure Howard.

In the big picture, it seems Houston's gambit is to count on Brooklyn being unable to keep its salary cap powder dry for another season while still retaining Deron Williams. If the Nets are off the table -- either because Williams bolted or because they used their cap space to keep Williams happy -- it's not clear where Howard would go that might be preferable to Houston. According to a report at NBA.com, Howard's people are busy trying to scare the Rockets off, as partnering with Williams in Brooklyn is his preferred destination, but Houston doesn't seem deterred.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves. In the short term, Houston cashes in one of the league's most cap-friendly contracts -- Budinger makes only $885,120 this season -- by getting a mid-first-round pick and lightens a wing glut that had first-round pick Morris confined to the bench all of last season. Ultimately we'll judge this deal for the Rockets by Houston's endgame, but it's not a bad return on the face of it.

For Minnesota, it gets two players who could potentially help. Budinger gives the Wolves a wing player who can shoot and score, something they rather painfully lacked last season, and his arrival may be a signal that Michael Beasley and Martell Webster (who is owed only $600,000 if waived by July 1) won't be back. While I like him better as a sixth man than a starter, Budinger will be an improvement on what the Wolves had in either capacity, and his cheap contract means the Wolves could still have $11 million in cap space for next week's feeding frenzy.

Eliyahu could prove useful too -- an Israeli combo forward who posted solid translated European stats the past few seasons, he's an immediate threat to overtake Omri Casspi as Marc Stein's most tweeted-about player. Last season's stats for Maccabi Tel Aviv translate to 13.8 points, 7.7 boards per 40 minutes and 50.1 percent shooting, for an 11.47 PER. He tried one 3-pointer the entire season, so this guy won't be spacing the floor, but if the Wolves let Anthony Randolph walk it may open minutes for him.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Can Houston fans please tell me about Budinger?

Our wings are bad but it's not like this is an upgrade. Ellington can score, plays little defense and doesn't pass which from what I hear is exactly the same as Budinger. I watched the Budinger twice this season against the Wolves and both times he got absolutely destroyed by Beasley. Fair enough if Beasley was hot but he was just doing the same 2 moves over and over again and Budinger would either foul him or just let him do it. He did hit open 3's though which is more than I can say about Wes or Webster. I guess this means we are letting Beasley walk which in my opinion is extremely dumb and instead we will be stuck with 4 below average wings. We should have asked for Lee instead.

Rockets just ravaged us.

This is payback for all the times you (t wolves) destroyed us (rockets) in the regular season.

[jbot]

is someone on the way out in minny then? i wouldn't have thought bud was worth the 18th pick but who knows? maybe the wolves have something up their sleeve.

[MiseryCityTexas]

No more toiling. Once Rubio is healthy our next stop is to the playoffs....

Now all we need is a shooting guard before we put the Western Conference on notice...

Timberwolves are here...


Kevin Martin for Wayne Ellington, or Wesley Johnson. Do it Morey!