What is with this notion that Kobe is better than Jordan or even comes close?

[Mirko Cro Cop]

I see it all the time, Kobe fans will usually never say it straight up...that Kobe > MJ but will always give this condescending attitude towards MJ whenever Kobe is mentioned in the same sentence and will ALWAYS make a comparison remark between the two that favors Kobe.

"Kobe was a better 3 pt shooter"
"but Kobe had 7 finals appearances over MJ's 6"
"Kobe played against better teams!"

What reason is there to proclaim Kobe as if he's even near MJ in anything involving production and career accomplishments? Jordan was literally better at everything, he completely rapes Kobe on the stat sheet, outdid him in the awards lists, and was way more dominating on the court in terms of actual effectiveness. I love Kobe but some of his fans on here are just living in another world, get real.

[Punpun]

Because he is the closest to the #2 plyaer in the GOATs list.

[AlphaWolf24]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


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[Vertical-24]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


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Except you forgot to mention the fact that Jordan was better.


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[KG215]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...

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:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dictator]

Every Laker fan knows Jordan is better. You trolls just always feel the need to troll. Stfu and abandon thread.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


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What does Cro Cop have anything to do with what I'm talking about lol.

Mirko:
- winner of the toughest PRIDE grand prix ever
- greatest MMA striker
- top 5 HW in history

gtfo, don't even try and talk MMA with me :roll: .


And BACK ON TOPIC ....


Jordan got merked in the 80's? He did farely decent considering the squad he had behind him while he was putting on legendary numbers...numbers which were far greater than ANYTHING Kobe has done and he was facing some of the best teams in NBA history in the Lakers, Pistons, and Celtics. While Kobe was shown the door in the 1st round every year against a team that refused to play defense in the phx suns.

And good job on that stat...28.6 ppg, that's what? Like Jordan's PPG in his worst year throughout his prime? :facepalm

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[SilkkTheShocker]

The gap between Kobe and Jordan isn't as big as people make it out to be.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

The gap between Kobe and Jordan isn't as big as people make it out to be.
I would say it's pretty damn big, about 6-7 players worth on the top 10 list big.

[LakersReign]

I see it all the time, Kobe fans will usually never say it straight up...that Kobe > MJ but will always give this condescending attitude towards MJ whenever Kobe is mentioned in the same sentence and will ALWAYS make a comparison remark between the two that favors Kobe.

"Kobe was a better 3 pt shooter"
"but Kobe had 7 finals appearances over MJ's 6"
"Kobe played against better teams!"

What reason is there to proclaim Kobe as if he's even near MJ in anything involving production and career accomplishments? Jordan was literally better at everything, he completely rapes Kobe on the stat sheet, outdid him in the awards lists, and was way more dominating on the court in terms of actual effectiveness. I love Kobe but some of his fans on here are just living in another world, get real.


Here we go with this tired crap....AGAIN:rolleyes:

So...according to you, simply cuz a few Laker/Kobe fans say something, that suddenly means ALL Laker/Kobe fans say it or agree with it too? Bandwagon Lebron fans bandwagon mentality makes them look stupid each and every single time:facepalm

[SilkkTheShocker]

I would say it's pretty damn big, about 6-7 players worth on the top 10 list big.


From a player stand point, I don't think Jordan was all that much better than Kobe. How often did Jordan guard the opposing teams best player? What was his playoff record without Scottie Pippen? How did his team almost make the ECF without him? Jordan was great, but its amazing how overrated he gets sometimes.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Kobe's best shooting year:
46.9% on 9.4 / 20 FG a game, 25.2 ppg

Jordan's CAREER shooting:
49.7% on 11.4 / 22.9 FG a game, 30.1 ppg

even if you factor in TS%

Kobe: 55.4% career
Jordan: 56.9 % career

PLAYOFF:

Kobe: 44.8% FG, 54.1% TS
Jordan: 48.7% FG, 56.8% TS

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[AK47DR91]

6 rings that included 6 Finals MVP
4 MVPs out of those 6 championship seasons. 5 total MVPs
10 scoring titles with 6 of them coming during the championship season

That along makes Kobe's accomplishments look ordinary. We don't even need to look at the stats, son.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Here we go with this tired crap....AGAIN:rolleyes:

So...according to you, simply cuz a few Laker/Kobe fans say something, that suddenly means ALL Laker/Kobe fans say it or agree with it too? Bandwagon Lebron fans bandwagon mentality makes them look stupid each and every single time:facepalmLOL who said ANYTHING about LeBron? :facepalm , get his dick out of your mouth, is there something you're not telling us?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe's best shooting year:
46.9% on 9.4 / 20 FG a game, 25.2 ppg

Jordan's CAREER shooting:
49.7% on 11.4 / 22.9 FG a game, 30.1 ppg

even if you factor in TS%

Kobe: 55.4% career
Jordan: 56.9 % career

PLAYOFF:

Kobe: 44.8% FG, 54.1% TS
Jordan: 48.7% FG, 56.8% TS

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I never said Kobe was better. But its laughable to think Jordan was all that much better than him.

[LakersReign]

LOL who said ANYTHING about LeBron? :facepalm , get his dick out of your mouth, is there something you're not telling us?

Please. The only people stupid enough to even suggest something so hilariously stupid is bandwagon Lebron fans like you. Since no REAL NBA fan would embarrass themselves saying some asinine hot garbage like this thread you just posted.:facepalm

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Please. The only people stupid enough to even suggest something so hilariously stupid is bandwagon Lebron fans like you. Since no REAL NBA fan would embarrass themselves saying some asinine hot garbage like this thread you just posted.:facepalm
LOL...nice assumption there. I'm not jobbing on Kobe's **** like you, that must mean I'm a LeBron bandwagon fan....:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Stop talking, stop typing, stop embarrassing yourself :lol .

[LakersReign]

AND.....the little ret**ded child(mirkocrocop) repeats ON COMMAND, like a pathetic parrot cuz the truth hurts:applause:

[DaHeezy]

I see it all the time, Kobe fans will usually never say it straight up...that Kobe > MJ but will always give this condescending attitude towards MJ whenever Kobe is mentioned in the same sentence and will ALWAYS make a comparison remark between the two that favors Kobe.

"Kobe was a better 3 pt shooter"
"but Kobe had 7 finals appearances over MJ's 6"
"Kobe played against better teams!"

What reason is there to proclaim Kobe as if he's even near MJ in anything involving production and career accomplishments? Jordan was literally better at everything, he completely rapes Kobe on the stat sheet, outdid him in the awards lists, and was way more dominating on the court in terms of actual effectiveness. I love Kobe but some of his fans on here are just living in another world, get real.

Look what you're doing on the flip side. You say Kobe fans are insecure but your post reeks of an insecure Jordan fan

Reality:
It goes either way. If fact Jordan fans are probably the most defensive fans on this board. At least the majority Kobe fans are alot more willing to submit. Jordan fans feel if Jordan ain't no.1 you're automatically a hater.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

AND.....the little ret**ded child repeats like a pathetic parrot cuz the truth hurts:applause:
...so many closet LeBron fans like you on this site it's absurd.

Just stop ... :facepalm

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Look what you're doing on the flip side. You say Kobe fans are insecure but your post reeks of an insecure Jordan fan

Reality:
It goes either way. If fact Jordan fans are probably the most defensive fans on this board. At least the majority Kobe fans are alot more willing to submit. Jordan fans feel if Jordan ain't no.1 you're automatically a hater.
Well Jordan is number 1, that's undisputed.

[LakersReign]

...so many closet LeBron fans like you on this site it's absurd.

Just stop ... :facepalm


So....I'm supposedly a Lebron fan ...NOW....huh?:rolleyes:


Good luck with that:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[AK47DR91]

I never said Kobe was better. But its laughable to think Jordan was all that much better than him.
He is. It's a fact!

It's laughable to think Kobe is anywhere near Jordan's league.

Kobe is in the same category as West, Wade, etc. Players who can only lead his team to one or two championships.

[DaHeezy]

Well Jordan is number 1, that's undisputed.

See that is exactly what I mean. Think about what undisputed means.

Sports is subjective, which means nothing can be undisputed.

You examplify everything wrong with basketball messageboards and fuel the reason why I believe Jordan fans are the most insecure.

people can have opinions, with Jordan fans you can't. It's Jordan or you're a hater

[L8k3r5]

I like how some people say Kobe is overrated, but those same people overrate the f*ck out of Michael Jordan. It's really sad...

[DaHeezy]

He is. It's a fact!

It's laughable to think Kobe is anywhere near Jordan's league.

Kobe is in the same category as West, Wade, etc. Players who can only lead his team to one or two championships.

But with that logic Bill Russell is the greatest player of all-time

You can't diminish their acheivements and praise Jordan, when Jordan was surrounded by one of the greatest teams of all-time time, with the greatest coach of all time in a weak era

Give everybody a level playing field. This is why I say sports is subjective

[AK47DR91]

But with that logic Bill Russell is the greatest player of all-time

You can't diminish their acheivements and praise Jordan, when Jordan was surrounded by one of the greatest teams of all-time time, with the greatest coach of all time in a weak era

Give everybody a level playing field. This is why I say sports is subjective
Russell is no doubt the greatest team player, the greatest winner of all-time. He doesn't have the offensive skills to be GOAT.

I've already said many times why Jordan is considered #1, it's not hard to see it either. It's not just his 6 rings, but what came with it.

90's was a WEAK ERA? :roll: It was the decade of giants, and we saw a 6'6" shooting guard slay them all.

Sports is subjective if the stats, accomplishments are somewhat equal. I have no reason to hate on anybody who says Kareem, Russell, Wilt or Magic were better than Jordan but I have my right to strongly disagree(with exception Kareem cuz he's in the same league as MJ imho).

Kobe doesn't have the stats nor the feats to showcase he's near MJ's level. Not even close.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The gap between Kobe and Jordan isn't as big as people make it out to be.

It's about 10% in terms of impact on games, which is substantial for players at this level. Kobe's prime is more comparable to Barkley's than Jordan's.

[ThaRegul8r]

From the media trying to find "the next Mike." Everyone kept forcing it down everyone's throats that Kobe was "better than Mike at the same age."

[DaHeezy]

I've already said many times why Jordan is considered #1, it's not hard to see it either. It's not just his 6 rings, but what came with it.

Again, a very bis opinion, many statistics and intangibles that refute that. That's YOUR opinion


90's was a WEAK ERA? :roll: It was the decade of giants, and we saw a 6'6" shooting guard slay them all.

Name me a top ten team in the 90's outside the Chicago Bulls in their primes. People regard the 96 Bulls as the greatest team of all-time. Considering the rest of the teams in the 90's are nowhere near the calibre, yes it was a weaker era


Sports is subjective if the stats, accomplishments are somewhat equal. I have no reason to hate on anybody who says Kareem, Russell, Wilt or Magic were better than Jordan but I have my right to strongly disagree(with exception Kareem cuz he's in the same league as MJ imho).

Intangibles are a huge perspective in who's the greatest. You haven't taken that into account. And what you're saying isn't being very subjective at all. There's always a stat which outdoes another stat. It's all what you see as important, and if it supports Jordan that would be the only stat that would matter to you



Kobe doesn't have the stats nor the feats to showcase he's near MJ's level. Not even close.

People are allowed to have that opinion, Jordians are too insecure to let people have those opinions

[AK47DR91]

@ DAHEEZY

Again, a very bis opinion, many statistics and intangibles that refute that. That's YOUR opinion

Jordan vs Kobe: small accomplishment comparisons
6 ring with 6 Finals MVP OR 5 rings with 2 FMVP
4 MVP during those 6 title seasons OR 1 MVP with a Finals loss
10 scoring titles with 6 of them during championship seasons OR two scoring titles with 1st Round exits
Just a small sample, yet MJ alreadt blew Kobe out of the water with those feats.


Name me a top ten team in the 90's outside the Chicago Bulls in their primes. People regard the 96 Bulls as the greatest team of all-time. Considering the rest of the teams in the 90's are nowhere near the calibre, yes it was a weaker era

And you know why those teams aren't on the Top 10 lists? It's because Jordan took all the championships from them


Intangibles are a huge perspective in who's the greatest. You haven't taken that into account. And what you're saying isn't being very subjective at all. There's always a stat which outdoes another stat. It's all what you see as important, and if it supports Jordan that would be the only stat that would matter to you

Intangibles? Jordan had intangibles that was on the same level as Russell, Magic and Bird. You just don't bet against Jordan!

People are allowed to have that opinion, Jordians are too insecure to let people have those opinions
I respect people's opinions who have enough facts or support to their claims. You don't have that. Sorry. LivingLegend(guy with the Blue Jay) had a good debate with me about the All-Time ranking. I respect his view because he had facts to back up his statement.

[get these NETS]

I see it all the time, Kobe fans will usually never say it straight up...that Kobe > MJ but will always give this condescending attitude towards MJ whenever Kobe is mentioned in the same sentence and will ALWAYS make a comparison remark between the two that favors Kobe.

"Kobe was a better 3 pt shooter"
"but Kobe had 7 finals appearances over MJ's 6"
"Kobe played against better teams!"

What reason is there to proclaim Kobe as if he's even near MJ in anything involving production and career accomplishments? Jordan was literally better at everything, he completely rapes Kobe on the stat sheet, outdid him in the awards lists, and was way more dominating on the court in terms of actual effectiveness. I love Kobe but some of his fans on here are just living in another world, get real.


here's the short answer...


grant hill and a few other superstar level players got labeled as the "next jordan"...or got compared to jordan..

any great athletic perimeter or dunker post 1990 was compared to jordan

they all folded under the pressure..hill,vince carter, penny, harold miner, etc.etc

kobe embodies the mental toughness and competitiveness of MJ more than any player since then....and unlike the pretenders...kobe pretty much lived up to the comparisons....as much as any human being ever will

beast scorer, BEAST clutch performer, BEAST playoff clutch performer, and a winner...


he's like the sequel to the classic film that you never thought could be as good as the first.....but damn near comes close.

[andgar923]

People confuse 'similarities' to being equal. Whatever aspect of the game Kobe is similar to MJ, Mj for the most part was better at. If not by a hairline of a fracture better, clearly distinguishable.

I've said it a million times here, Kobe is the closest to MJ in certain aspects, but he falls short in others. To Kobe's credit, he is the only player that dares to walk in his shoes let alone dethrone him. I think that chase to supplant MJ has diminished slightly as the years go by, but the flame while calm is still there.

[AK47DR91]

here's the short answer...


grant hill and a few other superstar level players got labeled as the "next jordan"...or got compared to jordan..

any great athletic perimeter or dunker post 1990 was compared to jordan

they all folded under the pressure..hill,vince carter, penny, harold miner, etc.etc

kobe embodies the mental toughness and competitiveness of MJ more than any player since then....and unlike the pretenders...kobe pretty much lived up to the comparisons....as much as any human being ever will

beast scorer, BEAST clutch performer, BEAST playoff clutch performer, and a winner...


he's like the sequel to the classic film that you never thought could be as good as the first.....but damn near comes close.
I can agree with this statement with exception to last sentence.

I just don't think it's that close. Kobe's right across the street but nowhere on Jordan's property.

[andgar923]

I can agree with this statement with exception to last sentence.

I just don't think it's that close. Kobe's right across the street but nowhere on Jordan's property.

Or the "BEAST playoff clutch performer" either.

While he's had his moments on some occasions, he's not a BEAST. Just one of the other Kobe myths.

[AK47DR91]

Or the "BEAST playoff clutch performer" either.

While he's had his moments on some occasions, he's not a BEAST. Just one of the other Kobe myths.
True. He had that 2009 run. But way more misses than hits.

[Dragonyeuw]

came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.



It's interesting that in 2003, at age 40, Jordan shot a higher percentage in a tougher defensive era than Kobe did this year.

[AK47DR91]

It's interesting that in 2003, at age 40, Jordan shot a higher percentage in a tougher defensive era than Kobe did this year.
:oldlol:

[get these NETS]

I can agree with this statement with exception to last sentence.

I just don't think it's that close. Kobe's right across the street but nowhere on Jordan's property.



I agree with you. Nobody will ever come close to the impact or game that MJ had...

but Kobe is cut from the same cloth as your Jordans, Birds, Magics, Isiahs..bonafide legit alltime great..

he and Duncan are arguably the best players since MJ.and since kobe is a sg....he's gonna get compared to MJ

[AlphaWolf24]

What does Cro Cop have anything to do with what I'm talking about lol.

Mirko:
- winner of the toughest PRIDE grand prix ever
- greatest MMA striker
- top 5 HW in history

gtfo, don't even try and talk MMA with me :roll: .


And BACK ON TOPIC ....


Jordan got merked in the 80's? He did farely decent considering the squad he had behind him while he was putting on legendary numbers...numbers which were far greater than ANYTHING Kobe has done and he was facing some of the best teams in NBA history in the Lakers, Pistons, and Celtics. While Kobe was shown the door in the 1st round every year against a team that refused to play defense in the phx suns.

And good job on that stat...28.6 ppg, that's what? Like Jordan's PPG in his worst year throughout his prime? :facepalm

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- Mirko - won the open wieght Grand Prix fighting middle weights and LHW's Japanese cans..(Pride was also famous for fixing Fights...CroCop beat Barnett who just had a fixed wrestling match in Japan this year:lol )

- came to the UFC and got merked over and over

- Mirko is Overrated from beating up lackluster Japanese fighters...

- Mirko is not even a top 5 alltime Striker...A Silva , Overreem , Hunt , Manhoef and GSP are better strikers.

- maybe top 20 alltime fighter...meh maybe not.

- you sound like a TUF Newb...



he was putting on legendary numbers...numbers which were far greater than ANYTHING Kobe has done and he was facing some of the best teams in NBA history in the Lakers, Pistons, and Celtics. While Kobe was shown the door in the 1st round every year against a team that refused to play defense in the phx suns.

And good job on that stat...28.6 ppg, that's what? Like Jordan's PPG in his worst year throughout his prime? :facepalm


He was putting up numbers???...and getting destroyed...

Kobe was putting 40PPG for months in a row!!..son...pfft.

- the 80's = matadore defense nearly all perimeter players were 20PPG 55%FG...

- Watered down 90's = 5 more expansion teams , MJ got every call and coddled by the refs...


Kobe=MJ..and nearly all his peers agree....deal wit it


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[Dragonyeuw]

He was putting up numbers???...and getting destroyed...



Some points you may have overlooked:

-Jordan led the Bulls to 50 wins in 1987-88, with a rookie Pippen and Grant.

- In 1989-90, the Bulls took the eventual champion Pistons to 7 games in the ECF. The following year, they swept Detroit in route to the championship.

Are we gonna act like Jordan, compared to his 80's contemporaries Magic, Bird, Isiah didn't have BY FAR the least talent to work with? The moment he had ANY kind of decent talent to work with, the Bulls became contenders. Is it Jordan's fault that the Bulls didn't assemble a truly competitive team around him until the aforementioned stars were on their way down prime-wise?

[KingBeasley08]

Couldn't even answer a simple agree or disagree question. And exactly how am I trolling? I guess when all else fails, just start making assumptions.
dont worry bro, hes a virgin. when he finally gets some, he won't be as weird

[gxL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNQPFCjBCIg&feature=g-vrec

[AlphaWolf24]

Some points you may have overlooked:

-Jordan led the Bulls to 50 wins in 1987-88, with a rookie Pippen and Grant.

- In 1989-90, the Bulls took the eventual champion Pistons to 7 games in the ECF. The following year, they swept Detroit in route to the championship.

Are we gonna act like Jordan, compared to his 80's contemporaries Magic, Bird, Isiah didn't have BY FAR the least talent to work with? The moment he had ANY kind of decent talent to work with, the Bulls became contenders. Is it Jordan's fault that the Bulls didn't assemble a truly competitive team around him until the aforementioned stars were on their way down prime-wise?


- ok...he still got destroyed 4 years in a row....just like I said.

- some points you may have overlooked....left the Bull's in 93...Bull's only slipped 2 games in 94'

Pippen misses half the season in 97'...Bull's slip 8 games from the year before ( 96')...again....MJ misses whole seaon Bull's slip 2 games....Pippen misses half the season Bull's slip 8 games.

I know he got a stacked team and won championships in a watered down league...no one is disagreeing with that.

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen , the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman, the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter:lol ...garbage Kemp and Payton:lol ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas:lol ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's..

least amount of talent?....they were by far the most stacked team of the 90's


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[Nevaeh]

- ok...he still got destroyed 4 years in a row....just like I said.

- some points you may have overlooked....left the Bull's in 93...Bull's only slipped from Being World Champions in 94 without their MVP MJ on the team

Pippen misses half the season in 97'...Bull's slip 8 games from the year before ( 96')...again....MJ misses whole seaon Bull's slip to second round Champions....Pippen misses half the season Bull's slip 8 games.

I know he got a stacked team and won championships in a watered down league that Kobe wasn't even good enough to be a starter in...no one is disagreeing with that.

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen , the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman, the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter:lol ...garbage Kemp and Payton:lol ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas:lol ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's..Except for the only 2 times that they made it to the Finals.

least amount of talent?....they were by far the most disciplined and focused team of the 90's


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Made a few corrections there for you, Slick.

[MetsPackers]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


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:roll: :roll: :roll: Did you seriously mean this?? :roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

Made a few corrections there for you, Slick.


Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24

- ok...he still got destroyed 4 years in a row....just like I said.

- some points you may have overlooked....left the Bull's in 93...Bull's only slipped from Being World Champions in 94 without their MVP MJ on the team

won 55 games and made it to the ECSFinals...without MJ..Jordan never even had a .500 season or won a playoff game without Pippen...(oops he won 1 outta 10 times:lol )

Pippen misses half the season in 97'...Bull's slip 8 games from the year before ( 96')...again....MJ misses whole seaon Bull's slip to second round Champions..far better then anything MJ did without Pippen..Pippen misses half the season Bull's slip 8 games.

I know he got a stacked team and won championships in a watered down league that teenage Kobe was an allstar in....MJ was going against Idaho st. when he was a teenager..no one is disagreeing with that.

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen , the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman, the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter ...garbage Kemp and Payton ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's..Except for the only 2 times that they made it to the Finals...in 20 seasons:lol

least amount of talent?....they were by far the most disciplined and focused team of the 90's


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2EZ

[AlphaWolf24]

:roll: :roll: :roll: Did you seriously mean this?? :roll:


actually...your right.



CroCop never dominated

[DaHeezy]

Jordan vs Kobe: small accomplishment comparisons
6 ring with 6 Finals MVP OR 5 rings with 2 FMVP
4 MVP during those 6 title seasons OR 1 MVP with a Finals loss
10 scoring titles with 6 of them during championship seasons OR two scoring titles with 1st Round exits
Just a small sample, yet MJ alreadt blew Kobe out of the water with those feats.

:rolleyes: That's the problem that I mentioned with you Jordan stans. All I was saying is that people are allowed to form an opinion. Then the insecurity breaks out and immediately goes into Jordan vs. Kobe mode. All I mentioned is nothing is undisputible, not even saying Kobe, and immediately goes into this post


And you know why those teams aren't on the Top 10 lists? It's because Jordan took all the championships from them

Bad logic. Here's why:

a) Then Jordan should have murked 2 of the top 10 teams of all time in the late eighties when he was a stat beast. Or are you gonna tell me Jordan let the Celtics and the Pistons by?

b) All superstars in the 90's who are considered top 20 never were paired with another superstar or had the cast to compete with the Bulls. Quite simply, the Bulls earned the right to be called a top 10 team of all-time, because they simply were on all accounts. 90's Bulls playing in the 80's would have been a whole different story


Intangibles? Jordan had intangibles that was on the same level as Russell, Magic and Bird. You just don't bet against Jordan!

True, but you're still bias


I respect people's opinions who have enough facts or support to their claims. You don't have that. Sorry. LivingLegend(guy with the Blue Jay) had a good debate with me about the All-Time ranking. I respect his view because he had facts to back up his statement.

No, it's because guys like you refuse to accept any opposing argument. Let's face it, you post with horse blinders on when Kobe is mentioned. I bet you think I'm a Kobe stan, right? That's where guys like you become intolerable to even begin to debate with.

[Simple Jack]

Alphawolf, you seriously think Kobe Bryant is a better player than Michael Jordan? Trolling aside...

[ripthekik]

Jordan >>> Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron

That's all.

[Vertical-24]

It's interesting that in 2003, at age 40, Jordan shot a higher percentage in a tougher defensive era than Kobe did this year.

Kobe shot 43% this year....I get your point but just figured i'd point that inaccuracy out.

[Vertical-24]

Jordan >>> Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron

That's all.

I don't get how a topic about Kobe and Jordan suddenly gets to LeBron...smh, some of you guys disappoint me.

[Calabis]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24

- ok...he still got destroyed 4 years in a row....just like I said.

- some points you may have overlooked....left the Bull's in 93...Bull's only slipped from Being World Champions in 94 without their MVP MJ on the team

won 55 games and made it to the ECSFinals...without MJ..Jordan never even had a .500 season or won a playoff game without Pippen...(oops he won 1 outta 10 times:lol )

Pippen misses half the season in 97'...Bull's slip 8 games from the year before ( 96')...again....MJ misses whole seaon Bull's slip to second round Champions..far better then anything MJ did without Pippen..Pippen misses half the season Bull's slip 8 games.

I know he got a stacked team and won championships in a watered down league that teenage Kobe was an allstar in....MJ was going against Idaho st. when he was a teenager..no one is disagreeing with that.

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen , the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman, the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter ...garbage Kemp and Payton ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's..Except for the only 2 times that they made it to the Finals...in 20 seasons:lol

least amount of talent?....they were by far the most disciplined and focused team of the 90's


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2EZ

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk197/calabis/1304373360_picsay-1304373360-1.jpg

[AK47DR91]

I love how Kobe stans bash Jordan got getting his ass whooped by the Celtics? I'm willing to bet they can't even name one teammate of Jordan from the pre-Pippen/Jackson era Bulls without looking it up.

Kobe's 2005-07 run was bad too but at least he had Lamar Odom. Odom is better than anything Jordan had before Pippen arrived.

[bwink23]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


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Jordan individually dominated the 80's....and he shot better than Kobe from 10-23 ft in the 2002 and 2003 seasons combined on similar FG attemtpts.

Prime Jordan > prime Kobe, EASILY.

[bwink23]

here's the short answer...


grant hill and a few other superstar level players got labeled as the "next jordan"...or got compared to jordan..

any great athletic perimeter or dunker post 1990 was compared to jordan

they all folded under the pressure..hill,vince carter, penny, harold miner, etc.etc

kobe embodies the mental toughness and competitiveness of MJ more than any player since then....and unlike the pretenders...kobe pretty much lived up to the comparisons....as much as any human being ever will

beast scorer, BEAST clutch performer, BEAST playoff clutch performer, and a winner...


he's like the sequel to the classic film that you never thought could be as good as the first.....but damn near comes close.


I could tear a huge hole into that elementary school claim of yours and make Kobe look like a second rate douche bag, but instead i'll just laugh at you...:lol

[bwink23]

Some points you may have overlooked:

-Jordan led the Bulls to 50 wins in 1987-88, with a rookie Pippen and Grant.

- In 1989-90, the Bulls took the eventual champion Pistons to 7 games in the ECF. The following year, they swept Detroit in route to the championship.

Are we gonna act like Jordan, compared to his 80's contemporaries Magic, Bird, Isiah didn't have BY FAR the least talent to work with? The moment he had ANY kind of decent talent to work with, the Bulls became contenders. Is it Jordan's fault that the Bulls didn't assemble a truly competitive team around him until the aforementioned stars were on their way down prime-wise?


Don't bother with AlphaTroll. He's very, very foolish.

[bwink23]

Kobe shot 43% this year....I get your point but just figured i'd point that inaccuracy out.


Jordan shot 44.5%FG in 2003...it was accurate.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

- Mirko - won the open wieght Grand Prix fighting middle weights and LHW's Japanese cans..(Pride was also famous for fixing Fights...CroCop beat Barnett who just had a fixed wrestling match in Japan this year:lol )

- came to the UFC and got merked over and over

- Mirko is Overrated from beating up lackluster Japanese fighters...

- Mirko is not even a top 5 alltime Striker...A Silva , Overreem , Hunt , Manhoef and GSP are better strikers.

- maybe top 20 alltime fighter...meh maybe not.

- you sound like a TUF Newb...
:oldlol: @ this basement virgin thinking he can keep up with me even a sec talking about MMA. Amusing...but let's get started:

1. Mirko beat prime Wandy and prime Barnett both in the same night via KO.

2. Lost to the likes of Frank Mir, Dos Santos and Gonzaga who were all title contenders, ex-champs, and current champ, all in the twilight of his career.

3. GSP > Mirko as a striker ? :facepalm, GSP, who was KO'd by Matt freaking Serra? :bowdown:

4. Mirko's #4 on the all time HW list behind Fedor, Big Nog, and JDS, fact.

5. Don't speak about MMA in front of me again :no: .


He was putting up numbers???...and getting destroyed...

Kobe was putting 40PPG for months in a row!!..son...pfft.

- the 80's = matadore defense nearly all perimeter players were 20PPG 55%FG...

- Watered down 90's = 5 more expansion teams , MJ got every call and coddled by the refs...


Kobe=MJ..and nearly all his peers agree....deal wit it

next
And I'll go ahead and educate you again since thought processing seems to be such a difficult task for you.

1. All time 40 pt games:

Kobe: 125 in 16 years
MJ: 173 in 15 years

Kobe career: 25.4 ppg
MJ career: 30.1 ppg

MJ is miles ahead in terms of scoring.

2. MJ played vs the some of the best teams in NBA history and then went on to beat them: LA Lakers, Bad Boy Pistons, Supersonics

3. Yes MJ got every call even tho his FG& in the 90's were all well near 50% :facepalm.

4. MJ had to deal with big man clogging the lane while being hand checked 24/7, Kobe played in the no hand check rule era and could only put up 30+ ppg for 2 seasons while MJ did it for how many? Oh yeah that's right..8 seasons, 10 scoring titles, thanks :roll:

5. Nobody thinks Kobe = MJ or even comes close. No one even wants to play with him which is why no star has expressed interest in joining the Lakers ship And since you Kobetards job can't go two posts without mentioning LeBron, the best player in the world right now, don't forget...LeBron > Kobe, in every way possible. Hell, even KD is on his way to surpassing Kobe, don't be scared homie :roll:


N E X T

[DaHeezy]

I love how Kobe stans bash Jordan got getting his ass whooped by the Celtics? I'm willing to bet they can't even name one teammate of Jordan from the pre-Pippen/Jackson era Bulls without looking it up.

Kobe's 2005-07 run was bad too but at least he had Lamar Odom. Odom is better than anything Jordan had before Pippen arrived.

Again Mr. Insecurity, go back to calling people who aren't Kobe fans Kobe stans.

Just to point out YOU credit Jordan for stealing Championships in the 90's then blame the BULLS that they weren't good enough to hang with the Celts. Flip floppers contridict much?

Funny you say Kobe stans can't name one other teammate from that 86-87 team when you prolly couldn't either :oldlol:

[AK47DR91]

Again Mr. Insecurity, go back to calling people who aren't Kobe fans Kobe stans.

Just to point out YOU credit Jordan for stealing Championships in the 90's then blame the BULLS that they weren't good enough to hang with the Celts. Flip floppers contridict much?

Funny you say Kobe stans can't name one other teammate from that 86-87 team when you prolly couldn't either :oldlol:Are you really that stupid? :facepalm Do you realized the 90's Bulls were a whole different from the 80's Bulls?

But some of your posts and statements don't even seem to be on topic. So I don't even know if we're on the same page or not. For example, in the Mr. Jabbar thread about LeBron's decision and Kobe pushing out Shaq, you said the OP was talking about the fans or some shit like that. But that's not the case. Mr. Jabbar was clearly taking a shot at LeBron for joining forces with Wade and Bosh because he didn't want to be the sole leader. Here's the thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269034&page=7 You clearly have some kind of reading comprehension problems.

And yes, I can two members from those 80's Bulls team. Charles Oakley was a member of Jordan's 80's Bulls. As well as an old ass George Gervin. But the rest were straight up scrubs.

[Calabis]

I could tear a huge hole into that elementary school claim of yours and make Kobe look like a second rate douche bag, but instead i'll just laugh at you...:lol

Yeah I'm laughing at the clutch playoff performer thing...someone just posted an ESPN playoff list...didn't see Kobe doing any work, to make that list:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah I'm laughing at the clutch playoff performer thing...someone just posted an ESPN playoff list...didn't see Kobe doing any work, to make that list:lol
Yeah, go tell that to the spurs, blazers, pacers, suns, ect. I'm sure they would really laugh :lol

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Yeah I'm laughing at the clutch playoff performer thing...someone just posted an ESPN playoff list...didn't see Kobe doing any work, to make that list:lol
:roll:
the league is littered with players and teams completely owned by Kobe.
Hell, look no further than the words of Popovich

[WeGetRing2012]

Yeah I'm laughing at the clutch playoff performer thing...someone just posted an ESPN playoff list...didn't see Kobe doing any work, to make that list:lol

:lol

[Lebron23]

6 Finals MVP, 5x MVP >>> 1x MVP, 2x Finals MVP.

[IllegalD]

6 Finals MVP, 5x MVP >>> 1x MVP, 2x Finals MVP.

5 rings, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP >>> 3x MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP

[Lebron23]

5 rings, 2x Finals MVP, 1x MVP >>> 3x MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP


LeBron is 7 years younger than Oldbe. He will have more finals MVP than Oldbe at the end of his NBA Career.

[DaHeezy]

Are you really that stupid? :facepalm Do you realized the 90's Bulls were a whole different from the 80's Bulls?

Yes I did, I pointed that out, you didn't.

Like I said you gave JORDAN the credit for the 90's taking teams out for championships not the BULLS, but blame the 80's BULLS for not being able to beat the Celtics. Make your arguments consistant. Either credit the BULLS for the 90's or discredit JORDAN for the eighties. Take your pick.


But some of your posts and statements don't even seem to be on topic. So I don't even know if we're on the same page or not. For example, in the Mr. Jabbar thread about LeBron's decision and Kobe pushing out Shaq, you said the OP was talking about the fans or some shit like that. But that's not the case. Mr. Jabbar was clearly taking a shot at LeBron for joining forces with Wade and Bosh because he didn't want to be the sole leader. Here's the thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269034&page=7 You clearly have some kind of reading comprehension problems.

Because I don't read things with a bias, unlike you. It could have been easily taken that Kobe was a selfish whiner for not wanting to play with Shaq (that's how I took it), but your Kobe bias makes YOU read otherwise. But I do understand what Mr.Jabbar was referring in your context


And yes, I can two members from those 80's Bulls team. Charles Oakley was a member of Jordan's 80's Bulls. As well as an old ass George Gervin. But the rest were straight up scrubs.

:oldlol: You're comical. Charles Oakley is a given. And ooohhh, picking George Gervin from THE WHOLE 80's, brilliant :applause:
That's like asking name one person who played with Kobe in all of the '00's.

Good lord this is funny, Jordan stan getting upset and can't let things go. Come on sayit: "you're a Kobe Stan" :oldlol:

[AK47DR91]

Yes I did, I pointed that out, you didn't.

Like I said you gave JORDAN the credit for the 90's taking teams out for championships not the BULLS, but blame the 80's BULLS for not being able to beat the Celtics. Make your arguments consistant. Either credit the BULLS for the 90's or discredit JORDAN for the eighties. Take your pick.



Because I don't read things with a bias, unlike you. It could have been easily taken that Kobe was a selfish whiner for not wanting to play with Shaq (that's how I took it), but your Kobe bias makes YOU read otherwise. But I do understand what Mr.Jabbar was referring in your context



:oldlol: You're comical. Charles Oakley is a given. And ooohhh, picking George Gervin from THE WHOLE 80's, brilliant :applause:
That's like asking name one person who played with Kobe in all of the '00's.

Good lord this is funny, Jordan stan getting upset and can't let things go. Come on sayit: "you're a Kobe Stan" :oldlol:
OK, Heezy. I'm only responding to the bold statements there because the other stuff you're saying is relevant to the topic.

And even the bold statement is somewhat relevant because I never said anything negative about Jordan's teammates of the 90's. They're not even in this conversation. The topic is about Jordan vs Kobe, simple as that. Alpha dissed Jordan for not beating the Celtics, and I responded by implying that he played with scrubs before Pippen and Jackson arrived and nobody could win with that roster and that Alpha or any of the Kobestans can even name one of Jordan's teammates.

And of course I don't know any of the other names who wasn't Oakley or Gervin because they were scrubs, they were no name players. THAT'S WHY HE COULDN'T BEAT BOSTON WITH THOSE ROSTERS. Do you understand me, now? Jesus Christ, man! Are trolling me or something? If you are, you're doing a good job by bouncing from one topic to another.

[DaHeezy]

And of course I don't know any of the other names who wasn't Oakley or Gervin because they were scrubs, they were no name players. THAT'S WHY HE COULDN'T BEAT BOSTON WITH THOSE ROSTERS. Do you understand me, now? Jesus Christ, man! Are trolling me or something? If you are, you're doing a good job by bouncing from one topic to another.

So if you're going to say that then credit THE BULLS for Jordan's success in the 90's (a task you didn't do in a previous post). You specifically said there wasn't a top 10 team all-time because JORDAN *singular* denied them. Wrong, because according to the logic you just posted Jordan couldn't beat the Celts because he had a poor TEAM. Like my point was always don't credit Jordan for one thing, then discredit the team for another. Do you understand ME now? I don't think that's particularly trolling at all

[LakersFan626]

True. He had that 2009 run. But way more misses than hits.

Um, 2010? 11 out of 12 games 30 points or more and he played very well in games 1, 4, 5, and 6 in the Finals. And in the 6-24 game he had 15 rebounds and got to the line 15 times. His 2010 playoffs were as good as his 2009 playoffs easily.

Kobe isn't better than Jordan though.

[Nevaeh]

So if you're going to say that then credit THE BULLS for Jordan's success in the 90's (a task you didn't do in a previous post). You specifically said there wasn't a top 10 team all-time because JORDAN *singular* denied them. Wrong, because according to the logic you just posted Jordan couldn't beat the Celts because he had a poor TEAM. Like my point was always don't credit Jordan for one thing, then discredit the team for another. Do you understand ME now? I don't think that's particularly trolling at all

But the thread wasn't about "Teams" originally. Alpha derailed the thread into "teams" because he knew his boy was about to get owned (as usual) with FACTS. Jordan "denying" other Players Rings implies that he was the LEADER of every team that hoped to have a chance at a championship during his era.

What happened to the Knicks without Jordan leading the Bulls in 94? That's right, they finally made it to the Finals, with Ewing as team leader. For someone who thinks "subjectively", you sure seem to wine whenever Jordan's in the conversation.

[AK47DR91]

So if you're going to say that then credit THE BULLS for Jordan's success in the 90's (a task you didn't do in a previous post). You specifically said there wasn't a top 10 team all-time because JORDAN *singular* denied them. Wrong, because according to the logic you just posted Jordan couldn't beat the Celts because he had a poor TEAM. Like my point was always don't credit Jordan for one thing, then discredit the team for another. Do you understand ME now? I don't think that's particularly trolling at all
READ THE THREAD TITLE: It is about Jordan vs Kobe. Not a debate on the Bulls vs Lakers. Why would I say the Bulls denied those 90's teams of ring so that's why they're not considered Top 10 teams on a thread discussing Jordan and Kobe? That plays little relevant to this topic. Again, thread title and topic is about Jordan vs Kobe...their teammates are just a background support.

And you honestly believe that the Bulls made Jordan a success? :oldlol: It's the other way around, dummy. The Bulls were nothing before Jordan came in. Yeah, Pippen helped. Kukoc helped. Horace Grant helped. But it started with Michael Jordan!

[AK47DR91]

But the thread wasn't about "Teams" originally. Alpha derailed the thread into "teams" because he knew his boy was about to get owned (as usual) with FACTS. Jordan "denying" other Players Rings implies that he was the LEADER of every team that hoped to have a chance at a championship during his era.

What happened to the Knicks without Jordan leading the Bulls in 94? That's right, they finally made it to the Finals, with Ewing as team leader. For someone who thinks "subjectively", you sure seem to wine whenever Jordan's in the conversation.
Exactly what I meant.

And this Heezy fool actually think we should "credit THE BULLS for Jordan's success in the 90's." :oldlol: His teammates helped him win but he was already a success..hell, he was already a house-hold name for hitting that game-winner in North Carolina.

[DaHeezy]

READ THE THREAD TITLE: It is about Jordan vs Kobe. Not a debate on the Bulls vs Lakers. Why would I say the Bulls denied those 90's teams of ring so that's why they're not considered Top 10 teams on a thread discussing Jordan and Kobe? That plays little relevant to this topic. Again, thread title and topic is about Jordan vs Kobe...their teammates are just a background support.

IT WAS YOU who deviated to the topic we were discussing. But in typical Jordan stan fashion, when backed into a corner say "that's not the point"



And you honestly believe that the Bulls made Jordan a success? :oldlol: It's the other around, dummy. The Bulls were nothing before Jordan came in. Yeah, Pippen helped. Kukoc helped. Horace Grant helped. But it started with Michael Jordan!

No you moron, I didn't say the team made Jordan, but on that token you can't say otherwise. IT GOES HAND IN HAND. That's where someone can be subjective and not claim Jordan is the GOAT (take notes nevaeh). Jordan stans (yourself) will always fall into that trap: blame the Bulls for Jordan's failure, but credit Jordan for their success. Any other player is the opposite.

Yet again, insecure Jordan fans can't handle unbiased fans

[DaHeezy]

Exactly what I meant.

And this Heezy fool actually think we should "credit THE BULLS for Jordan's success in the 90's." :oldlol: His teammates helped him win but he was already a success..hell, he was already a house-hold name for hitting that game-winner in North Carolina.

Then he gets back to what we were discussing once the calvary saves his ass. :facepalm

So he was a success in NC and a proven winner? Again, what happened in the 80's? And don't blame the team this time since Jordan made the Bulls in the 90's.


God you are delusional. You contridict yourself all over the place

[AK47DR91]

Then he gets back to what we were discussing once the calvary saves his ass. :facepalm

So he was a success in NC and a proven winner? Again, what happened in the 80's? And don't blame the team this time since Jordan made the Bulls in the 90's.


God you are delusional. You contridict yourself all over the place
So now you wanna compare the NBA to NCAA? :biggums:

This is going nowhere...you're jumping all over the place.

[DaHeezy]

So now you wanna compare the NBA to NCAA? :biggums:

YOU brought up North Carolina you nitwit

His teammates helped him win but he was already a success..hell, he was already a house-hold name for hitting that game-winner in North Carolina.I get it, this AK47DR91 muthafukka is sinjackal. It's got to be this close minded prick, otherwise he's doing a great impression

[AK47DR91]

YOU brought up North Carolina you nitwit
I get it, this AK47DR91 muthafukka is sinjackal. It's got to be this close minded prick, otherwise he's doing a great impression
I brought up UNC because you implied somehow the Bulls made Jordan a success. Jordan was already a house-hold name before he got to Chicago.

And this Heezy fool actually think we should "credit THE BULLS for Jordan's success in the 90's." His teammates helped him win but he was already a success..hell, he was already a house-hold name for hitting that game-winner in North Carolina.
^^^ my exact quote.

You on the other hand, said this in reply:

So he was a success in NC and a proven winner? Again, what happened in the 80's? And don't blame the team this time since Jordan made the Bulls in the 90's.
Do you really know how stupid that sounds? You're comparing the Jordan's 80's Bulls to his Tar Heels now.

You think being a winner in college will automatically make you a winner in the pros?

[tpols]

Kobe>Jordan no trollin

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe shot 43% this year....I get your point but just figured i'd point that inaccuracy out.

And Jordan shot 44.5 in 2003. What was the inaccuracy?

[Dragonyeuw]

- ok...he still got destroyed 4 years in a row....just like I said.

- some points you may have overlooked....left the Bull's in 93...Bull's only slipped 2 games in 94'

Pippen misses half the season in 97'...Bull's slip 8 games from the year before ( 96')...again....MJ misses whole seaon Bull's slip 2 games....Pippen misses half the season Bull's slip 8 games.

I know he got a stacked team and won championships in a watered down league...no one is disagreeing with that.

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen , the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman, the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter:lol ...garbage Kemp and Payton:lol ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas:lol ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's..

least amount of talent?....they were by far the most stacked team of the 90's


next

I was talking about Jordan's teams being the least talented in the 80s compared to Magic, Bird,and Isiah. I specifically said COMPARED TO HIS 80's COMTEMPORARIES. And as for the first 4 years he got so-called destroyed, tell us all who was on the Bulls roster from 84 to 87 before Pippen and Grant came along, who themselves didn't develop into complimentary talents until 1990. I can wait....

[Dragonyeuw]

Don't bother with AlphaTroll. He's very, very foolish.
I know, I was bored at work. Usually I don't waste the time......

[d.bball.guy]

You said it in OP. Kobe fans.

[Dragonyeuw]

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen , the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman, the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter:lol ...garbage Kemp and Payton:lol ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas:lol ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's..




So, let's examine this post( my comments in bold capitals):

("By far the least amount of talent"....arguably The 3rd greatest player of the 90's and top 3 alltime defensive player..Pippen PIPPEN WAS GREAT, 3rd GREATEST PLAYER OF THE 90's? NO. WAS HAVING PIPPEN A GREATER ADVANTAGE THAN HAVING SHAQ, WHO FROM 1999-2003 WAS PLAYING AT GOAT LEVEL OF DOMINANCE? NOPE ,

the greatest defender/rebounder of the the generation Rodman TRUE, BUT THEN JORDAN NEVER NEEDED AN OFFENSIVE BIGMAN TO WIN TITLES, AND HE PLAYED IN THE ERA OF THE BIGMAN. KOBE? SHAQ, PAU GASOL AND TO A LESSER EXTENT BYNUM. JORDAN ONLY NEEDED A BIGMAN TO CLEAN UP HIS MISSES, WHICH WERE LESS THAN KOBE'S MISSES...41% CAREER FINALS . KOBE NEEDED BIGMAN SCORERS IN AN ERA OF THE PERIMETER PLAYER.

the greatest European player of the decade Kukoc WHO GIVES A SHIT IF HE WAS THE GREATEST 90's EUROPEAN? IN THE NBA, HE WAS AN ABOVE AVERAGE PLAYER AT BEST.JASON TERRY LEVEL OF IMPORTANCE

and 2 other Allstars Grant and Armstrong GRANT AND ARMSTRONG MADE THE ALL-STAR TEAM ONCE WHEN JORDAN WAS RETIRED IN 94. THEY WEREN'T ALL-STAR LEVEL WHEN JORDAN WAS PLAYING WITH THEM. BJ DIDN'T EVEN START TILL 93, AFTER PAXSON GOT OLD. NICE TRY


...vs Magic and hurt Laker squad....Potland with Drexler , Duckworth and Porter ...garbage Kemp and Payton ..Barkley , KJ and Richard Dumas ...and Malone and Stock who got merked in 20 seasons....18 seasons they got merked by other teams ...not the Bull's.. AND KOBE'S FIRST THREE RINGS WAS AGAINST 35 YEAR OLD REGGIE, RIK SMITS, JALEN ROSE , SECOND RING AGAINST ALLEN IVERSON, MUTUMBO AND SCRUBS , THIRD RING AGAINST KIDD, JEFFERSON, MARTIN :lol . ORLANDO WASN'T ANYTHING SPECIAL, THE ONLY ONE OF KOBE'S FINALS OPPONENTS AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN JORDAN'S FINALS OPPONENTS WERE 2008 CELTICS, AND KOBE GOT MERKED IN THAT FINALS :rockon: AND NEEDED TO BE CARRIED IN 2010 GAME 7 AGAINST AGING CELTICS WHILE SHOOTING 6-24. OH WAIT.....HE GRABBED 15 REBOUNDS. INB4JORDANSHOT5-19AGAINSTSONICSIN96.


Who was Jordan matched against directly in his finals? 31 year old Magic Johnson a year removed from MVP award( inB4MagichadHIV) and 91 MVP runner-up, Byron Scott, starter on top 5 GOAT Lakers squad( led champion Lakers in scoring in 88 at 22 ppg), Top 6 GOAT SG and 1992 MVP runner-up Clyde Drexler, 3-time All-star Dan Majerle, DPOY top 10 GOAT PG Gary Payton for his first 4 rings. Who was Kobe playing directly for the 2000-2002 3peat? 35 year old Reggie Miller well past his prime? Eric Snow? Aaron Mckie? Kerry Kittles? Only elite finals competition for the first 3peat was Iverson, who had no-one else to lean on, and still managed to merk Kobe and LA for 48 in game 1. Shaq 2001 finals 33 and 14 (inB4AlphatalksaboutwhatKobedidagainstSpurs).

What about Kobe's last 2 rings? Who was he playing directly? Michael Pietrus.? Boston merked him in 2008, who were the only Kobe finals opponent that would have been competition for Jordan's 90's Bulls, and needed to be carried in 2010 finals Game 7 while shooting 6-24( did grab 15 rebounds though)...oh wait I already said that. Only good player he was matched against in finals between 2008 and 2010 was Ray Allen ...... over half of Kobe's finals matchups weren't even better than old-azz Jeff Hornacek.:lol

Jordan's worst finals performance in 96 is still statistically superior to Kobe's career finals stats....

Jordan at 40 with a surgically repaired thumb on his shooting hand and tendinitis in both knees shot higher field goal percentage than Kobe at 33, 44.5 to 43, in a tougher defensive era.... and Kobe this year had the second best center in Bynum( 19 and 12) and Gasol( off-year, still better than anything Jordan played with in 2003), to relieve defensive pressure.

NeXt.....2ez

[SpaceJammeR]

if you watch jordan in his prime vs kobe in his prime. you could easily see how much better jordan was.

[RazorBaLade]

it really bothers me ppl havent shunned ak47 after the bwagon moves

[DaHeezy]

You said it in OP. Kobe fans.

Actually no. For me personally, I hate Kobe, but I will respect people's opinions on the guy. Hell, I wouldn't mind debating Alpha Wolf. But I admire he can defend himself and defend a less popular point of view. But here comes the Stans thinking anything he says is garbage when looking at it from an UNBIAS POV he has legit points. Heck I believe Jordan is better and I can tell Alpha why, but I will take his POV into account and I would NEVER say anything is undisputible. BTW, I have Magic as my GOAT. Does that make me a Jordan hater? According to fanboys it does. So how does that make me a Kobe fanboy to those same guys?

This thread is an example of how insecure and close minded Jordan Stans are. To the point where they flip flop or start losing an argument, everything becomes irrelevant.

Just take a look at this AK kid. He'll bring up something, I'll counter it, then he'll cry about how that doesn't pertain to the thread :wtf:

[Dragonyeuw]

Actually no. For me personally, I hate Kobe, but I will respect people's opinions on the guy. Hell, I wouldn't mind debating Alpha Wolf. But I admire he can defend himself and defend a less popular point of view. But here comes the Stans thinking anything he says is garbage when looking at it from an UNBIAS POV he has legit points. Heck I believe Jordan is better and I can tell Alpha why, but I will take his POV into account and I would NEVER say anything is undisputible. BTW, I have Magic as my GOAT. Does that make me a Jordan hater? According to fanboys it does. So how does that make me a Kobe fanboy to those same guys?



I think there are 4 players who have a legit case for GOAT, and it's completely based on subjective factors and what one deems important: Jordan, Magic, Russell, Kareem. The gap between those guys, and you can throw Bird into the mix, isn't really that big. They're on the same plane, if you will. Alpha does make some good points, the problem is he mixes it with ridiculous straw-man logic so it's tough to take him seriously. Strip away the fat, and there are solid points.

Talent and skill-wise, Kobe is in the same ballpark as Jordan( or at least closer than any other perimeter player) but when it comes to mentality, application of skills and efficiency/production he falls short. Not woefully short in some areas, clear gaps in a few others, but it's not criminal for someone to suggest Kobe is better or at least equal if they can produce an argument that isn't riddled with fanboyism and troll logic. It would take one hell of an argument, but it's not impossible, though I have yet to see one that can convince me that Kobe is Jordan's equal or better.

[AlphaWolf24]

[QUOTE=Mirko Cro Cop]:oldlol: @ this basement virgin thinking he can keep up with me even a sec talking about MMA. Amusing...but let's get started:

1. Mirko beat prime Wandy and prime Barnett both in the same night via KO.

2. Lost to the likes of Frank Mir, Dos Santos and Gonzaga who were all title contenders, ex-champs, and current champ, all in the twilight of his career.

3. GSP > Mirko as a striker ? :facepalm, GSP, who was KO'd by Matt freaking Serra? :bowdown:

4. Mirko's #4 on the all time HW list behind Fedor, Big Nog, and JDS, fact.

5. Don't speak about MMA in front of me again :no: .


1.Mirko Ko'd Wandy (who was 50 lbs lighter) and now fights at middleweight...oh yeah he should have won the fight in 2002 against Mirko too....after Pride(fighting Japanese cans) Wandy went the UFC and lost 5 outta 8 fights...

Mirko also joined the UFC and got merked a year after winning the Pride OWGPX...as I already pointed out.


2.Also got KTFO by Shuab and merked again by Big Country.....


3. GSP got caught once...every other time he out struck his opponenet and used excellent TD...Mirko got KTFO by numerous less then average strikers...Randleman and Ganzaga and Shaub most recently

4.Mirko is nowhere near the top 10 alltime HW's


5. Go away TUF Newb...you aint on my level.....>>>elevatorshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1zJNZH7Vno


http://i53.tinypic.com/ka46zt.gif



And I'll go ahead and educate you again since thought processing seems to be such a difficult task for you.

1. All time 40 pt games:

Kobe: 125 in 16 years
MJ: 173 in 15 years

Kobe career: 25.4 ppg
MJ career: 30.1 ppg

MJ is miles ahead in terms of scoring.

2. MJ played vs the some of the best teams in NBA history and then went on to beat them: LA Lakers, Bad Boy Pistons, Supersonics

3. Yes MJ got every call even tho his FG& in the 90's were all well near 50% :facepalm.

4. MJ had to deal with big man clogging the lane while being hand checked 24/7, Kobe played in the no hand check rule era and could only put up 30+ ppg for 2 seasons while MJ did it for how many? Oh yeah that's right..8 seasons, 10 scoring titles, thanks :roll:

5. Nobody thinks Kobe = MJ or even comes close. No one even wants to play with him which is why no star has expressed interest in joining the Lakers ship And since you Kobetards job can't go two posts without mentioning LeBron, the best player in the world right now, don't forget...LeBron > Kobe, in every way possible. Hell, even KD is on his way to surpassing Kobe, don't be scared homie :roll:


N E X T

1.MJ played some of the best teams in NBA History and Lost....after the great teams dismantled and grew old he won titles in a watered down league....also getting the most superstar treatment by any player ever.

if you looked at MJ wrong you got a foul

2. Kobe is nearly equal in all areas to MJ...making all defensive teams nearly every year of his career....5th alltime Scorer in NBA History and climbing (soon to pass MJ)..25PPG career average (but started Pro ball at 17 years old and played limited minutes his first couple of seasons)...as a starter he is at over 28PPG nearly the same as MJ's 30PPG career average as a STARTER.

3. MJ played in a era where complicated zones and traps were not widely used...on on one defense with a player trying to stiffarm you is much easier to score against...when MJ played in the Modern era(2002) he shot 41% and Kobe dropped 45 points on him in 1 half...sending MJ to the bench crying...

(Kobe also dropped 30 on Pippen and MJ in 97' 98' when Kobe was barely outta highschool...playing limited minutes)

4. Nearly everyone agrees that Kobe and MJ are similar players with similar results...Kobe's peers and coaches all have said many times he is on MJ's level ....or slightly better.



go way kid...don't ever try to talk Hoop or MMA with a wolf....>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>elevators


(bumps chest...Points that way>>>>>>>>)

[AlphaWolf24]

I think there are 4 players who have a legit case for GOAT, and it's completely based on subjective factors and what one deems important: Jordan, Magic, Russell, Kareem. The gap between those guys, and you can throw Bird into the mix, isn't really that big. They're on the same plane, if you will. Alpha does make some good points, the problem is he mixes it with ridiculous straw-man logic so it's tough to take him seriously. Strip away the fat, and there are solid points.

Talent and skill-wise, Kobe is in the same ballpark as Jordan( or at least closer than any other perimeter player) but when it comes to mentality, application of skills and efficiency/production he falls short. Not woefully short in some areas, clear gaps in a few others, but it's not criminal for someone to suggest Kobe is better or at least equal if they can produce an argument that isn't riddled with fanboyism and troll logic. It would take one hell of an argument, but it's not impossible, though I have yet to see one that can convince me that Kobe is Jordan's equal or better.


please explain how Magic , Russell and Bird were better then Kobe....especially since you never saw any of them play.

I make excellent arguements because I have been watching basketball since before you were born...and i actually watch games and understand what I see.

there is no fat on my post just real talk and real basketball...this is not a video game with attributes and complicated mathmatical formula's

Kobe = the greatest laker of alltime and 5X Champion with one of if not the greatest skillsets of alltime...and he's not better then Bird or Russell???..

GTFO son.

[AlphaWolf24]

if you watch jordan in his prime vs kobe in his prime. you could easily see how much better jordan was.


actually if you watch Both in thier Primes they are nearly Identical...Kobe was a better allaround scorer with a more asthetically pleasing game to watch...Jordan was a slightly better stretched out defender.

[Dragonyeuw]

please explain how Magic , Russell and Bird were better then Kobe....especially since you never saw any of them play.

I make excellent arguements because I have been watching basketball since before you were born...and i actually watch games and understand what I see.



I saw magic and Bird play. Unless you're 60-70 years old, you wouldn't have been around to see Russell play and appreciate what you saw. I've seen your profile and from what I recall, you're in your mid-late 30's. Which means you didn't see Russell play either. STFU


The rest of your post isn't worth my time.

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe was a........a more asthetically pleasing game to watch...

Subjective BS.

[glidedrxlr22]

actually if you watch Both in thier Primes they are nearly Identical...Kobe was a better allaround scorer with a more asthetically pleasing game to watch...Jordan was a slightly better stretched out defender.

Ask both of their peers who was better. If they answer honestly....Jordan will be the choice by 80%+....easily. Simply put, that's the opinion of real players and not kobe trolls like yourself or kobe haters like me.

[AlphaWolf24]

I saw magic and Bird play. Unless you're 60-70 years old, you wouldn't have been around to see Russell play and appreciate what you saw. I've seen your profile and from what I recall, you're in your mid-late 30's. Which means you didn't see Russell play either. STFU


The rest of your post isn't worth my time.


I didn't...and I'm not the one saying Russell is better then Kobe....(although I did go to Coach Nelson's basketball camp in 1990 and talk with many of Russell's peer's at USF..and have a better understanding then a random Rock like you are portraying)

and if you saw Bird and Magic play (wich we all know your lying) please explain how Magic and Bird were better basketball players then Kobe...

until then stick to unoriginal name calling and spineless posts how bill russell and bird are better then Kobe..


your basketball knowlege is silly and sad


next

[DaHeezy]

Ask both of their peers who was better. If they answer honestly....Jordan will be the choice by 80%+....easily. Simply put, that's the opinion of real players and not kobe trolls like yourself or kobe haters like me.

I'm bothered by that statement, because it has a feel like if they don't say Jordan than they're not being honest.
As for peers, the majority of players that have played during both their primes have said Kobe is the better player. But in Jordan stan fashion they are quick to dismiss it and call that player an idiot.

The problem with Jordan stans, if you don't say Jordan is the best, you're either stupid or lying

[AlphaWolf24]

Ask both of their peers who was better. If they answer honestly....Jordan will be the choice by 80%+....easily. Simply put, that's the opinion of real players and not kobe trolls like yourself or kobe haters like me.


well I know for a fact that John salley and Steve Kerr have said Kobe is right with MJ...as has Phil Jackson , Pat Riley and countless others.

by your criteria then any of the peers will pick thier era ....as anyone from Wilt's/Russell/Kareem era who was better and 80% will pick them just as easily.

[glidedrxlr22]

I'm bothered by that statement, because it has a feel like if they don't say Jordan than they're not being honest.
As for peers, the majority of players that have played during both their primes have said Kobe is the better player. But in Jordan stan fashion they are quick to dismiss it and call that player an idiot.

The problem with Jordan stans, if you don't say Jordan is the best, you're either stupid or lying

I'll take it a step further. Put all of their peers in a room and have them do a secret survey without putting their names on it. Still you get 80+% for Jordan.

[Dragonyeuw]

I didn't...and I'm not the one saying Russell is better then Kobe....


next

But yet you're the one saying Kobe is better than Russell, when neither one of us have seen Russell play. :hammerhead:

:lol at this c**t....

[glidedrxlr22]

well I know for a fact that John salley and Steve Kerr have said Kobe is right with MJ...as has Phil Jackson , Pat Riley and countless others.

by your criteria then any of the peers will pick thier era ....as anyone from Wilt's/Russell/Kareem era who was better and 80% will ick them easily.

Again let's use a secret survey and give one to every nba player that has ever played. I'm willing to stand by the order they choose. In this case Jordan would easily be ahead of Kobe.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jordan would never have allowed Jeremy Lin to score 38 on him that's for damn sure :roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

But yet you're the one saying Kobe is better than Russell, when neither one of us have seen Russell play. :hammerhead:

:lol at this c**t....


so wait....a random Jordan stan who most likely saw 1 - 2 years of Jordan as a Bull (if any...like yourself) can easily place him over Bill Russell because ...

A) Bill wasn't a refined scorer

B) Bill played in a small League

c) Bill couldn't move shoes

why can't Kobe be easily placed over him?...

and I have actually talked to many people who watched russell play...and peers at his college where he won 2 NCAA Titles.

and I wasn't the one who was saying Bill Russell was better...YOU WERE!

I have always rated players that I watched play....all these countless threads every week about ..


"Top 10 alltime players"..."rank your top 10 alltime players"..."who's the top 5 alltime players"

I always point out how people are full of it trying to rank players they never watched.

- I watched Bird and Magic whole careers.....they were not greater players then Kobe.

- The era they played in..and the rivalry they had was the best basketball ever...ever.

- - But better players who should be ranked higher?...no way.

[AlphaWolf24]

Jordan would never have allowed Jeremy Lin to score 38 on him that's for damn sure :roll:


why Damon Staudamire and Micheal Smith dropped 40 on him....

Danny ainge busted MJ's *** countless times...as did Former Safeway Grocery Bagger John Starks:lol

[AlphaWolf24]

Again let's use a secret survey and give one to every nba player that has ever played. I'm willing to stand by the order they choose. In this case Jordan would easily be ahead of Kobe.


why not also take all the players from the 50's and 60's....and poll them.

99% would pick Russell over MJ.

[BuGzBuNNy]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


next
:oldlol: Favorite poster

[DaHeezy]

I'll take it a step further. Put all of their peers in a room and have them do a secret survey without putting their names on it. Still you get 80+% for Jordan.

That's an assumption. You can't throw out those numbers because that is simply not facts.

There have been many cases most recently where NBA analysts, players who played against them in both their primes, same teammates and coaches who have stated Kobe is the better player. I can't find it but if somebody can look it up, even Pippen threw Jordan under the bus when the question was asked to him. So I think it's closer than you think. But like I said, stans are usually quick to dismiss it as stupid because that's not their opinion. I remember when Mark Jackson said it on NBC "Kobe right now is the best player ever." The reaction of the Jordan stan kept referring to him as the dumbest analyst who ever lived. Had he said Jordan, I'm pretty sure all the stans would have changed their opinions and referred to him as brilliant and would use his quote anytime a Jordan vs ____ came up.

I love when people refer back to Magic's statement saying Jordan is the best player ever. Well

1- That was 20 years ago, has anybody asked him now?
2- He also said Bernard King was the greatest player ever

People will always remember the statements they want to hear

[CavaliersFTW]

AlphaWolf is goin on a f*ckin rampage man! :lol

[Dragonyeuw]

so wait....a random Jordan stan who most likely saw 1 - 2 years of Jordan as a Bull (if any...like yourself) can easily place him over Bill Russell because ...

A) Bill wasn't a refined scorer

B) Bill played in a small League

c) Bill couldn't move shoes

why can't Kobe be easily placed over him?...

and I have actually talked to many people who watched russell play...and peers at his college where he won 2 NCAA Titles.

and I wasn't the one who was saying Bill Russell was better...YOU WERE!

I have always rated players that I watched play....all these countless threads every week about ..


"Top 10 alltime players"..."rank your top 10 alltime players"..."who's the top 5 alltime players"

I always point out how people are full of it trying to rank players they never watched.

- I watched Bird and Magic whole careers.....they were not greater players then Kobe.

- The era they played in..and the rivalry they had was the best basketball ever...ever.

- - But better players who should be ranked higher?...no way.


Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps I rank Russell ahead because I may view his career accolades ( 5 MVPs, 11 rings) and dominance compared to his contemporaries over Kobe's career accolades, and dominance compared to his contemporaries? You can only beat who is in front of you..... At no point have I said Russell was a better player, hard to compare considering different positions and era. I consider Hakeem a better player than Duncan, but Duncan's career is better and my personal rankings would reflect that. I said 4 players had a case for GOAT: Russell, Jordan, Kareem, and Magic and one can base that on any number of subjective factors. I've already said, many times, that Kobe is a top 10 all-time player. You act like someone threw sand in your vag if anyone doesn't outright declare Kobe GOAT. Get the f**k over it.

And finally, you do realize that rankings are completely subjective? The only one getting their panties in a bunch over rankings is you. I don't give a f**k if you think Kobe is better than Russell, but it seems to be really important to you, some random internet Kobe stan, that I rank Russell ahead of him. Who really gives a s**t? Only you it seems....

[CavaliersFTW]

Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps I rank Russell ahead because I may view his career accolades ( 5 MVPs, 11 rings) and dominance compared to his contemporaries over Kobe's career accolades, and dominance compared to his contemporaries? You can only beat who is in front of you..... At no point have I said Russell was a better player, hard to compare considering different positions and era. I consider Hakeem a better player than Duncan, but Duncan's career is better and my personal rankings would reflect that.

And finally, you do realize that rankings are completely subjective? The only one getting their panties in a bunch over rankings is you. I don't give a f**k if you think Kobe is better than Russell, but it seems to be really important to you, some random internet Kobe stan, that I rank Russell ahead of him. Who really gives a s**t? Only you it seems....
Exactly. Rankings are def subjective, no two persons criteria is likely to be the same. I personally have Kobe above Jerry West because Kobe has gotten more rings, done the 81 point game thing - yada yada... But if I had to build a Laker team with a two-guard, I'd pick West over Kobe any day because West is actually the better player from all the footage I've seen. AlphaWolf prob gonna give me hell for saying that too :oldlol:

[AceManIII]

[QUOTE][B]On how Kobe Bryant compares to Michael Jordan

[AlphaWolf24]

Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps I rank Russell ahead because I may view his career accolades ( 5 MVPs, 11 rings) and dominance compared to his contemporaries over Kobe's career accolades, and dominance compared to his contemporaries? You can only beat who is in front of you..... At no point have I said Russell was a better player, hard to compare considering different positions and era. I consider Hakeem a better player than Duncan, but Duncan's career is better and my personal rankings would reflect that.

And finally, you do realize that rankings are completely subjective? The only one getting their panties in a bunch over rankings is you. I don't give a f**k if you think Kobe is better than Russell, but it seems to be really important to you, some random internet Kobe stan, that I rank Russell ahead of him. Who really gives a s**t? Only you it seems....


Hold up....career accolades?....yet you have already stated how Magic, and Bird are better then Kobe??

career accolades?..then Russell is by far the GOAT it's not even close....but Bird?..and Magic?...over Kobe?..Kobe's career achievments are better then Birds...and Kobe has dominated his peers for over a decade...he got over 60% of the vote for player of the decade!!


- you just proved you are full of **** and just making stuff up as you go along.

- everyone knows you prolly never watched MJ play except on gatorade commercials and youtube Highlights.

go play with your spaceJam doll..


next

[AlphaWolf24]

That's the quote from Steve Kerr. I see nothing wrong with it :confusedshrug:


me niether...except for the fact that in todays era Kobe dropped nearly 50 points on him in 1 1/2 quarters:roll:

[DaHeezy]

Exactly. Rankings are def subjective, no two persons criteria is likely to be the same. I personally have Kobe above Jerry West because Kobe has gotten more rings, done the 81 point game thing - yada yada... But if I had to build a Laker team with a two-guard, I'd pick West over Kobe any day because West is actually the better player from all the footage I've seen. AlphaWolf prob gonna give me hell for saying that too :oldlol:


Footage and live are two totally different things. When do you see anything negative through footage?
Not giving you hell but that's a fairly narrow way of coming to a conclusion

[King Crossover]

AlphaWolf is losing his mind right now :oldlol: :oldlol:

Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe

next

[CavaliersFTW]

Footage and live are two totally different things. When do you see anything negative through footage?
Not giving you hell but that's a fairly narrow way of coming to a conclusion
Gimme a break kid footage is how 99 percent of basketball is seen by everyone who uses IH unless they are season ticket holders. I've watched over a dozen full games of West, several 2nd halves, and at least an hours worth more of miscellaneous highlights and based on it all - studying his moves - and collectively adding all the recaps and artcles on him - his game passes my eye test as being more well rounded and complete than Kobe's. It's close, very very very close actually - but I still give the nod to West due to his defense which I feel is greater than Kobe's. Next time you talk about a player I want you to post pics of yourself at the game you attendeded that gives you the right to talk about them.

[Dragonyeuw]

Hold up....career accolades?....yet you have already stated how Magic, and Bird are better then Kobe??

career accolades?..then Russell is by far the GOAT it's not even close....but Bird?..and Magic?...over Kobe?..Kobe's career achievments are better then Birds...and Kobe has dominated his peers for over a decade...he got over 60% of the vote for player of the decade!!





You'll have to live with the fact that I don't share your opinion.

Now, once you've stopped sucking on Kobe get him to lick the sand out your vag.

Next

[Dragonyeuw]

AlphaWolf is losing his mind right now :oldlol: :oldlol:

Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe

next

straight pmsing....hilarious :oldlol:

[DaHeezy]

Gimme a break kid footage is how 99 percent of basketball is seen by everyone who uses IH unless they are season ticket holders. I've watched over a dozen full games of West, several 2nd halves, and at least an hours worth more of miscellaneous highlights and based on it all - studying his moves - and collectively adding all the recaps and artcles on him - his game passes my eye test as being more well rounded and complete than Kobe's. It's close, very very very close actually - but I still give the nod to West due to his defense which I feel is greater than Kobe's. Next time you talk about a player I want you to post pics of yourself at the game you attendeded that gives you the right to talk about them.

First off, I'm not a kid, son. You didn't have to get bitchy about it

Seond off, You'd probably only subject yourself to good footage. Hence "miscellaneous highlights". C'mon. Don't make a mountain out of an anthill.


For me according to footage, Dr.J is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen. I've watched the whole '83 playoff, I've seen youtube highlights, I've studied editing in HS, so I know what I'm looking for.

See where I'm going.

[CavaliersFTW]

First off, I'm not a kid, son. You didn't have to get bitchy about it

Seond off, You'd probably only subject yourself to good footage. Hence "miscellaneous highlights". C'mon. Don't make a mountain out of an anthill.


For me according to footage, Dr.J is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen. I've watched the whole '83 playoff, I've seen youtube highlights, I've studied editing in HS, so I know what I'm looking for.

See where I'm going.
DaHeezy handing down life lessons to all of us bias IH posters. Listen, I don't look for or wish for Jerry West to be the best player I've ever seen, the dude isn't even my favorite player and he if anything, lacks the visual flair and style that Kobe has. I have games where West is just another troubled shot chucker and/or old or injured - and I don't have any complete games of his worthy memorable ones. The reason I even started watching his games is because I was trying to watch the other people playing against/along side him. He plays a position I don't particularly favor to begin with. He just happens to have stood out to me more so than Kobe does because he is quite visibly a better wing defender/shooter/rebounder/playmaker/has quicker hands/great instincts/and is much more clutch and much less cocky. The dude looks like he simply got shit done better than Kobe. But okay, I'm looking through 1 sided glass because of your loosely connected opinion on watching one of the most memorable series of Julius Ervings career.

[glidedrxlr22]

why not also take all the players from the 50's and 60's....and poll them.

99% would pick Russell over MJ.

Sure....that's why I said "every player that has ever played" dumba$$. I don't care who gets picked first....but I can assure you Jordan finishes with a better ranking than Kobe.

[DaHeezy]

DaHeezy handing down life lessons to all of us bias IH posters. Listen, I don't look for or wish for Jerry West to be the best player I've ever seen, the dude isn't even my favorite player and he if anything, lacks the visual flair and style that Kobe has. I have games where West is just another troubled shot chucker and/or old or injured - and I don't have any complete games of his worthy memorable ones. The reason I even started watching his games is because I was trying to watch the other people playing against/along side him. He plays a position I don't particularly favor to begin with. He just happens to have stood out to me more so than Kobe does because he is quite visibly a better wing defender/shooter/rebounder/playmaker/has quicker hands/great instincts/and is much more clutch and much less cocky. The dude looks like he simply got shit done better than Kobe. But okay, I'm looking through 1 sided glass because of your loosely connected opinion on watching one of the most memorable series of Julius Ervings career.

Relax dood, I'm not trying to school anybody on anything. I respect that you feel West is better than Kobe. But to use it as ammo to clown somebody and make it sound definitive because you seen footage lacks alot of substance. That's why I used the example of Dr.J. You making that statement towards Alpha is no different from me claiming Dr.J is better than Lebron based on the footage I've seen. See my point?
Having an opinion I can respect, applying on somebody because of footage or lack thereof, I see as a shaky foundation to back an argument with.

[bwink23]

I'm bothered by that statement, because it has a feel like if they don't say Jordan than they're not being honest.
As for peers, the majority of players that have played during both their primes have said Kobe is the better player. But in Jordan stan fashion they are quick to dismiss it and call that player an idiot.

The problem with Jordan stans, if you don't say Jordan is the best, you're either stupid or lying


That is a flat out LIE....how many players can you name that have played against both prime Kobe and prime Jordan at their position??

Mitch Richmond played with Kobe in the early 2000's and against prime Jordan, he said Jordan was better....Craig Hodges played with Jordan and was Kobe's shooting coach in L.A., he said Jordan and it's not even close. Phil Jackson says Jordan. Penny Hardaway says Jordan. Bryon Russell says Jordan.

Who you got, John Salley?? :lol :lol

[bwink23]

well I know for a fact that John salley and Steve Kerr have said Kobe is right with MJ...as has Phil Jackson , Pat Riley and countless others.

by your criteria then any of the peers will pick thier era ....as anyone from Wilt's/Russell/Kareem era who was better and 80% will pick them just as easily.


Steve Kerr said their abilities are similar but the fact that Jordan led a team to multiple championships without a dominant or truly skilled big man leaves NO QUESTION who the better player was....should i pull that quote for you or can you use Google?? :no:

[DaHeezy]

That is a flat out LIE....how many players can you name that have played against both prime Kobe and prime Jordan at their position??

Mitch Richmond played with Kobe in the early 2000's and against prime Jordan, he said Jordan was better....Craig Hodges played with Jordan and was Kobe's shooting coach in L.A., he said Jordan and it's not even close. Phil Jackson says Jordan. Penny Hardaway says Jordan. Bryon Russell says Jordan.

Who you got, John Salley?? :lol :lol

Barkley, Mark Jackson, Pippen...all on national TV

Oh right, you're a Jordan Stan so you'll:

1- dismiss it instantly
2- call them idiots
3- call it a lie
4- instantly get defensive and write a short story about it or call me a ******* or Kobe stan

:rolleyes:

[bwink23]

why not also take all the players from the 50's and 60's....and poll them.

99% would pick Russell over MJ.


Russell quote on Jordan...."i can't imagine anyone playing any better."

NexT

[bwink23]

That's an assumption. You can't throw out those numbers because that is simply not facts.

There have been many cases most recently where NBA analysts, players who played against them in both their primes, same teammates and coaches who have stated Kobe is the better player. I can't find it but if somebody can look it up, even Pippen threw Jordan under the bus when the question was asked to him. So I think it's closer than you think. But like I said, stans are usually quick to dismiss it as stupid because that's not their opinion. I remember when Mark Jackson said it on NBC "Kobe right now is the best player ever." The reaction of the Jordan stan kept referring to him as the dumbest analyst who ever lived. Had he said Jordan, I'm pretty sure all the stans would have changed their opinions and referred to him as brilliant and would use his quote anytime a Jordan vs ____ came up.

I love when people refer back to Magic's statement saying Jordan is the best player ever. Well

1- That was 20 years ago, has anybody asked him now?
2- He also said Bernard King was the greatest player ever

People will always remember the statements they want to hear


NAME THEM....:lol

[DaHeezy]

Russell quote on Jordan...."i can't imagine anyone playing any better."

NexT

Russell also claimed Wilt was the greatest player and competitor he's ever seen, what's your point?
Players flip flop players constantly

[DaHeezy]

NAME THEM....:lol

Dood, I can tell that you're going to be intolerable, I already did, but do your Jordan Stan thing. Not gonna entertain you

[Deuce Bigalow]

what is wrong with you Andrew? Or Brian whatever your name is

I thought you love sucking Shaq's dick. You suck Mickey's **** too?

[bwink23]

Barkley, Mark Jackson, Pippen...all on national TV

Oh right, you're a Jordan Stan so you'll:

1- dismiss it instantly
2- call them idiots
3- call it a lie
4- instantly get defensive and write a short story about it or call me a ******* or Kobe stan

:rolleyes:


Yep, Mark Jackson the Kobe homer, everyone knows that one. But Barkley?? He NEVER said Kobe was better, EVER...:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.imgur.com/UFOqJ.jpg

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When did Pippen or Barkley ever call Kobe better? Get real, Bryant fans. :oldlol:

[bwink23]

Dood, I can tell that you're going to be intolerable, I already did, but do your Jordan Stan thing. Not gonna entertain you


You mean "dude".....Like i said, you can't name me any players that i haven't mentioned already that played against both in their primes. There have only been but a handful of 2-guards or small forwards to match up against both of them at their best. In fact, Gary Payton is probably the ONLY player to match up with a prime Kobe and a FIRST RETIREMENT Jordan in the early 90's.

You can't stop talking out your ass now. Your ass can't cash the checks you're writing.

[Nevaeh]

me niether...except for the fact that in todays era Kobe dropped nearly 50 points on him in 1 1/2 quarters:roll:

Lines like this completely f@ck up your argument, and stay the main reason why Kobe is never taken seriously when compared to MJ. When you constantly have to "embellish" to have your boy match up to MJ, you know he's already defeated.

[Calabis]

I didn't...and I'm not the one saying Russell is better then Kobe....(although I did go to Coach Nelson's basketball camp in 1990 and talk with many of Russell's peer's at USF..and have a better understanding then a random Rock like you are portraying)

and if you saw Bird and Magic play (wich we all know your lying) please explain how Magic and Bird were better basketball players then Kobe...

until then stick to unoriginal name calling and spineless posts how bill russell and bird are better then Kobe..


your basketball knowlege is silly and sad


next

I spoke with Greg Foster, who played against MJ and played with Kobe, simple answer, Kobe's great, but Jordan was better. Horry his own teammate said Jordan best he's ever seen/played against....so many more pro basketball players/gm's/coaches have said the same damn thing.....are you saying your word is greater than those guys? What are you a city league level basketball player?......According to you 80's-90's was weak, yet Kobe is playing against juggernauts, in a era which rules are curtailed to promote/increase perimeter scoring??:facepalm

I think your problem is that u keep referring to skill....hell I would actually say he may have been more skilled in certain aspects than MJ...but when it comes time to put those skills to the test on the court, he's failed to equal Jordan....u can bring up stats and erase years to boost his numbers, which is garbage angle you've been at for years...cause if I take off Jordan's Wizards years, guess what, it boosts his numbers. As far as Magic and Bird, these guys have carried there teams in the finals when needed most.....wth has Kobe done.....nothing that is memorable, nothing that is dominant and although win shares is a garbage advanced stat acccording to Kobestans:rolleyes: ...why is he the only one mentioned out of these guys to fail to lead his team in this stat in the finals?

Dude has zero historical moments in the finals and his impact on his team is greatly exaggerated by you and your brethren...The Apostles of Kobeville. Kobe is a regular season performer....yes his playoff performances have been good, but his finals have been weak when talking GOAT status....Kobe doing work :rolleyes: just not in the Finals

[DatAsh]

Barkley, Mark Jackson, Pippen...all on national TV

Oh right, you're a Jordan Stan so you'll:

1- dismiss it instantly
2- call them idiots
3- call it a lie
4- instantly get defensive and write a short story about it or call me a ******* or Kobe stan

:rolleyes:


Barkley claimed that Kobe was top 5 of all time, he never said that Kobe was better than Jordan. In fact, Barkley has, on numerous occasions, said just the opposite.

Pippen has always claimed that Michael was better than Kobe, he even goes so far as to say "it's not even close" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWFIGhD980

The only true name you mentioned there was Mark Jackson. Why do people feel the need to lie to make their point?(BTW I'm really not trying to single you out..I see this a lot) The notion that most media/tv-analysts/players are saying that Kobe > MJ is a flat out lie. Even worse, it's not as if we won't know you're lying. We all watch the same shows, we all hear what the "experts" have to say, this isn't the 1940s. The truth is, the vast majority of "experts" have said that Jordan > Kobe...yes, there are a few that have picked Kobe, but they're certainly not in the majority. Now, whether or not that lends any sort of credibility to the fact that Jordan is really the better player is another matter entirely.

:facepalm at DaHeezy claiming to be unbiased. I've been reading these forums for a few years now and you're one of maybe 20 posters who I can honestly say is consistently biased. I've literally never seen you post something that's anti Kobe/ pro Jordan regardless of the circumstances. That being said, you have made one very valid point that I'd like t address.

This notion that Michael Jordan is on some sort of pedestal as the undisputed greatest player of all time needs to stop. No, I don't think Kobe Bryant is/was a better player than Michael Jordan, nor do I think he really has that solid of a case, but pretty much all of the usual top 5(Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt) have a fairly strong case for GOAT.

IMO, there is one player who has a very strong case over Michael, and that player is Bill Russell. There are two players that have reasonable cases over him(Magic/Kareem), one player who has a somewhat reasonable case(Wilt), and 2-3 players that have a very minor case(Hakeem,Shaq,Duncan). I can't with good conscious put Kobe over Jordan, mainly due to them sharing virtually the same skill set(and Jordan being superior at 90% of the skills in the set), but I would listen to someone who does as long as he/she makes a reasonable case.

BTW, some of you guys claiming Jordan is the undisputed GOAT obviously don't understand the meaning of the word. The very existence of alphawolf is testament to that.

[Nevaeh]

BTW, some of you guys claiming Jordan is the undisputed GOAT obviously don't understand the meaning of the word. The very existence of alphawolf is testament to that.

Or maybe it just means Alpha is a nutcase. The fact that he has to constantly "embellish" is proof of that. Why can't he just compare both guys straight up, like everyone else who makes a case for their "Guy" being better than MJ?
:confusedshrug:

[DatAsh]

Or maybe it just means Alpha is a nutcase. The fact that he has to constantly "embellish" is proof of that. Why can't he just compare both guys straight up, like everyone else who makes a case for their "Guy" being better than MJ?
:confusedshrug:

I'm not saying he isn't a nutcase. I'm just pointing out that his very existence is testament to the fact that Jordan isn't the undisputed GOAT.

[bwink23]

Or maybe it just means Alpha is a nutcase. The fact that he has to constantly "embellish" is proof of that. Why can't he just compare both guys straight up, like everyone else who makes a case for their "Guy" being better than MJ?
:confusedshrug:


the very fact that Alphatard keeps pointing to Kobe's 55 point demolition of Jerry Stackhouse and Tyron Lou (Jordan happened to be on their team in his last season at 40-years old) shows the level of DESPERATION in his arguments.

[Nevaeh]

I'm not saying he isn't a nutcase. I'm just pointing out that his very existence is testament to the fact that Jordan isn't the undisputed GOAT.

And I don't think people have a problem with Jordan not being viewed as "undisputed". The problem comes in when the "rules" have to be bent in order to make a player appear better than MJ, even if MJ is proven factually to be better in multiple categories.

[Calabis]

Barkley claimed that Kobe was top 5 of all time, he never said that Kobe was better than Jordan. In fact, Barkley has, on numerous occasions, said just the opposite.

Pippen has always claimed that Michael was better than Kobe, he even goes so far as to say "it's not even close" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWFIGhD980

The only true name you mentioned there was Mark Jackson. Why do people feel the need to lie to make their point?(BTW I'm really not trying to single you out..I see this a lot) The notion that most media/tv-analysts/players are saying that Kobe > MJ is a flat out lie. Even worse, it's not as if we won't know you're lying. We all watch the same shows, we all hear what the "experts" have to say, this isn't the 1940s. The truth is, the vast majority of "experts" have said that Jordan > Kobe...yes, there are a few that have picked Kobe, but they're certainly not in the majority. Now, whether or not that lends any sort of credibility to the fact that Jordan is really the better player is another matter entirely.

:facepalm at DaHeezy claiming to be unbiased. I've been reading these forums for a few years now and you're one of maybe 20 posters who I can honestly say is consistently biased. I've literally never seen you post something that's anti Kobe/ pro Jordan regardless of the circumstances. That being said, you have made one very valid point that I'd like t address.

This notion that Michael Jordan is on some sort of pedestal as the undisputed greatest player of all time needs to stop. No, I don't think Kobe Bryant is/was a better player than Michael Jordan, nor do I think he really has that solid of a case, but pretty much all of the usual top 5(Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt) have a fairly strong case for GOAT.

IMO, there is one player who has a very strong case over Michael, and that player is Bill Russell. There are two players that have reasonable cases over him(Magic/Kareem), one player who has a somewhat reasonable case(Wilt), and 2-3 players that have a very minor case(Hakeem,Shaq,Duncan). I can't with good conscious put Kobe over Jordan, mainly due to them sharing virtually the same skill set(and Jordan being superior at 90% of the skills in the set), but I would listen to someone who does as long as he/she makes a reasonable case.

BTW, some of you guys claiming Jordan is the undisputed GOAT obviously don't understand the meaning of the word. The very existence of alphawolf is testament to that.

I personally have no problem with Kareem/Wilt being GOAT, they have a valid reason......Russell has a good case, but I just don't think I can put him over MJ/Kareem/Wilt.....Magic and Bird have a decent case......Kobe has zero case and to leap frog him over any of these guys, let alone Shaq, is insane to me(and obviously tons of others).

[ThaRegul8r]

why not also take all the players from the 50's and 60's....and poll them.

99% would pick Russell over MJ.

Russell quote on Jordan...."i can't imagine anyone playing any better."

NexT

This quote is ALWAYS taken out of context whenever I see anyone cite it. Here's the complete context:


I think Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan -- all these guys, I call it a tie, in that there's no one any better than these guys, and all these guys were as good as anyone could be.

Jordan was one of a group of seven players that Russell said no one was better than, who were as good as anyone could be. No one

[Cali Syndicate]

Every Laker fan knows Jordan is better. You trolls just always feel the need to troll. Stfu and abandon thread.

Except the ones with the mentality like the one above. Which is evidently the ones spoken of in the OP.

[ThaRegul8r]

Every Laker fan knows Jordan is better. You trolls just always feel the need to troll. Stfu and abandon thread.

Except the ones with the mentality like the one above. Which is evidently the ones spoken of in the OP.

:wtf:

As it appears you're referring to me...

I'm not—and have never been—a Laker fan.

[joeyjoejoe]

Mj has accomplished much more, he kinda revolutionized bball and helped make the nba more mainstream worldwide and is just the superior player so its really not close

[Mirko Cro Cop]

:oldlol: @ alphatard getting raped left and right in this thread, 140+ posts runnin a train on this n1gga til the sun goes down :lol

And btw, most of those losses for Mirko came at the end of his career which means nothing. Prime Mirko who still had springs in his knees would wipe the floor with anybody in the HW div today, including JDS..fact. Come at me bro :banana:

[Mirko Cro Cop]

And the purpose of this thread was exactly as the title states....addressing this ridiculous notion, trolling or not, of Kobe being better than Jordan overall. I love Kobe and have no qualms against him as he's been one of my favorite players to watch growing up and yes, there are things he matches or is even better at than Jordan, such as his 3 pt shooting and footwork but his overall package is in no way better than or equal to that of Jordan's.

Tbh, Kobe's not that bad of a shooter despite his horrendous percentages from the field throughout his career and as of late. His biggest downfall is his terrible shot selection which is a display of low bball IQ imo. And whether that stems from never having benefited from an elite PG is up for debate but tbh, that probably wouldn't have helped him much as all considering 1 on 1 isolations has been in his blood since birth.

And alphatard, don't speak about MMA again, stop embarrassing yourself :facepalm

[DaHeezy]

Barkley claimed that Kobe was top 5 of all time, he never said that Kobe was better than Jordan. In fact, Barkley has, on numerous occasions, said just the opposite.

Pippen has always claimed that Michael was better than Kobe, he even goes so far as to say "it's not even close" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWFIGhD980

The only true name you mentioned there was Mark Jackson. Why do people feel the need to lie to make their point?(BTW I'm really not trying to single you out..I see this a lot) The notion that most media/tv-analysts/players are saying that Kobe > MJ is a flat out lie. Even worse, it's not as if we won't know you're lying. We all watch the same shows, we all hear what the "experts" have to say, this isn't the 1940s. The truth is, the vast majority of "experts" have said that Jordan > Kobe...yes, there are a few that have picked Kobe, but they're certainly not in the majority. Now, whether or not that lends any sort of credibility to the fact that Jordan is really the better player is another matter entirely.

First off I'm flattered that you decided to join the forum and use your inagural post to address me. If in fact you are the lurker you claim to be, I'm touched my posting has made an impact on you through the years

I'm going to be the bigger man and admit I was wrong. I didn't lie, that's how I remembered it. The Barkley thing you're absolutely right, the Pippen thing was actually about Lebron. Maybe it's a testement to the fact that I'm not a Kobe fan and don't archive information to bring it up again.


:facepalm at DaHeezy claiming to be unbiased. I've been reading these forums for a few years now and you're one of maybe 20 posters who I can honestly say is consistently biased. I've literally never seen you post something that's anti Kobe/ pro Jordan regardless of the circumstances.

Judging from what I'm about to quote below, I can tell you're a little smarter and I'll counter with this. When have I ACTUALLY said Kobe is the greatest player ever or even said Kobe > Jordan? Never in the history of ISH have I even claimed that. In fact I've been asked to ranked players and never even listed Kobe in my top 5. Jordan is in my top 3. If you can find where I've actually said Kobe > Jordan I'll leave. Having said that it's not Jordan I have a problem with, it's his Jordanians (my word play on Christians) I cannot stand. The ones who refute any opinion of another greater player. They are as fanatical as Christians and Kobe is their Devil. All I do is submit evidence that maybe their opinion isn't gospel. Other poeple are allowed to have other beliefs and Jordan being GOAT is not definitive. Like I've addressed before, there are Jordan fans I can respect on here, but there are very few. Most embody guys like thatselective reader bwink. These posters on here seem to call Alpha a nutcase, but bwink is the Jordan stan version only 5X as bad and obnoxious. He jumps all over me for misquoting, by doing what? Misquoting himself.


That being said, you have made one very valid point that I'd like t address.

This notion that Michael Jordan is on some sort of pedestal as the undisputed greatest player of all time needs to stop. No, I don't think Kobe Bryant is/was a better player than Michael Jordan, nor do I think he really has that solid of a case, but pretty much all of the usual top 5(Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt) have a fairly strong case for GOAT.

IMO, there is one player who has a very strong case over Michael, and that player is Bill Russell. There are two players that have reasonable cases over him(Magic/Kareem), one player who has a somewhat reasonable case(Wilt), and 2-3 players that have a very minor case(Hakeem,Shaq,Duncan). I can't with good conscious put Kobe over Jordan, mainly due to them sharing virtually the same skill set(and Jordan being superior at 90% of the skills in the set), but I would listen to someone who does as long as he/she makes a reasonable case.

BTW, some of you guys claiming Jordan is the undisputed GOAT obviously don't understand the meaning of the word. The very existence of alphawolf is testament to that.

Thank you. And that really captures my point, it's not to hate Jordan, it's to give these Jordians another perspetive and to try to humble them.
As you can see yourself, your comment about Alpha was totally misread. I'm suprised bwink didn't jump in to call you a Kobe stan for referring to Alpha.

But take it as you will

[Simple Jack]

Alpha doesn't know shit about MMA. Calling people TUF newbs then acting like Pride didn't produce a huge portion of the greatest fighters of all-time.

I'm pretty sure we had a debate before where he was trying to argue Fedor and Big Nog weren't the two best HW of all-time.

[Dragonyeuw]

Thank you. And that really captures my point, it's not to hate Jordan, it's to give these Jordians another perspetive and to try to humble them.
As you can see yourself, your comment about Alpha was totally misread. I'm suprised bwink didn't jump in to call you a Kobe stan for referring to Alpha.

But take it as you will

I'd like to think most here welcome good, objective debate. I openly admit that Jordan is my favorite player all-time, and I will gladly debate, respectfully, how others measure to him and vice versa, not only in career achievements but in skills and abilities.

It's when someone resorts to troll logic that a 5 year old can counter, that's when things get out of hand. If someone is going to say Kobe>Jordan because Kobe 'dropped 42 on Jordan in a half', while completely ignoring the fact that Jordan didn't even cover him that game, completely ignoring the idiocy of trying to weigh a 23 year old Kobe against a 40 year old Jordan, then rightfully that should be called out as straight BS. If someone has to distort the truth, resort to strawman logic, and handpick years to remove out of the equation in order to make one person appear better next to another, then the argument is bulls**t.

[Calabis]

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]This quote is ALWAYS taken out of context whenever I see anyone cite it. Here's the complete context:



Jordan was one of a group of seven players that Russell said no one was better than, who were as good as anyone could be. No one

[DaHeezy]

I'd like to think most here welcome good, objective debate. I openly admit that Jordan is my favorite player all-time, and I will gladly debate, respectfully, how others measure to him and vice versa, not only in career achievements but in skills and abilities.

It's when someone resorts to troll logic that a 5 year old can counter, that's when things get out of hand. If someone is going to say Kobe>Jordan because Kobe 'dropped 42 on Jordan in a half', while completely ignoring the fact that Jordan didn't even cover him that game, completely ignoring the idiocy of trying to weigh a 23 year old Kobe against a 40 year old Jordan, then rightfully that should be called out as straight BS. If someone has to distort the truth, resort to strawman logic, and handpick years to remove out of the equation in order to make one person appear better next to another, then the argument is bulls**t.

And I agree. But that's just one example. It does go either way. You being a Jordan fan probably wouldn't see it but in many cases Jordians ignore great facts at the same time.

Take for example a case that I brought up with a poster named AK.
He claims Jordan is the reason the Bulls won in the 90's but the Bulls were the reason the didn't win during the 80's.
My counter is you can't credit a player for the success then go blame the team for lack thereof.
His counter, yeah but look how shytty the Bulls were in the 80's.
My response was yeah, but look how great his team was in the 90's, a top 10 team of all-time.

Then the guy goes running of telling people I'm annoying and arguably one of the worst posters on ISH? :wtf:

See what I'm saying? No reasoning, it goes either way, and with my experience Jordians (not holding you accountable) fans are the cream of the crop. I wouldn't doubt a Jordian is itching to debate my example even though I intended it to be just an example.

[Dragonyeuw]

And I agree. But that's just one example. It does go either way. You being a Jordan fan probably wouldn't see it but in many cases Jordians ignore great facts at the same time.

Take for example a case that I brought up with a poster named AK.
He claims Jordan is the reason the Bulls won in the 90's but the Bulls were the reason the didn't win during the 80's.
My counter is you can't credit a player for the success then go blame the team for lack thereof.
His counter, yeah but look how shytty the Bulls were in the 80's.
My response was yeah, but look how great his team was in the 90's, a top 10 team of all-time.

Then the guy goes running of telling people I'm annoying and arguably one of the worst posters on ISH? :wtf:

See what I'm saying? No reasoning, it goes either way, and with my experience Jordians (not holding you accountable) fans are the cream of the crop. I wouldn't doubt a Jordian is itching to debate my example even though I intended it to be just an example.

I'm not suggesting it doesn't go both ways. There are rapid fans on either side who will say s**t to get any kind of advantage they can.

Despite the fact that I am a Jordan fan, doesn't mean I turn my eye to stupid arguments made on behalf of Jordan. I don't consider the guy infallible, and as I've already stated I don't even consider him the clear GOAT. A case can be made for a few guys, based on a number of factors, and someone saying player x has a case over Jordan doesn't bother me in the least. I just like to see good arguments for it, and when it comes to Kobe, alot of people here simply don't make good arguments. It's usually stuff like what I said above, or someone will say he's better because he's a better shooter, or better dribbler. Well, yeah, lots of players are better pure shooters and dribblers than Jordan. Jordan isn't considered the GOAT because he was the best at every aspect of the game.

[AlphaWolf24]

I spoke with Greg Foster, who played against MJ and played with Kobe, simple answer, Kobe's great, but Jordan was better. Horry his own teammate said Jordan best he's ever seen/played against....so many more pro basketball players/gm's/coaches have said the same damn thing.....are you saying your word is greater than those guys? What are you a city league level basketball player?......According to you 80's-90's was weak, yet Kobe is playing against juggernauts, in a era which rules are curtailed to promote/increase perimeter scoring??:facepalm

I think your problem is that u keep referring to skill....hell I would actually say he may have been more skilled in certain aspects than MJ...but when it comes time to put those skills to the test on the court, he's failed to equal Jordan....u can bring up stats and erase years to boost his numbers, which is garbage angle you've been at for years...cause if I take off Jordan's Wizards years, guess what, it boosts his numbers. As far as Magic and Bird, these guys have carried there teams in the finals when needed most.....wth has Kobe done.....nothing that is memorable, nothing that is dominant and although win shares is a garbage advanced stat acccording to Kobestans:rolleyes: ...why is he the only one mentioned out of these guys to fail to lead his team in this stat in the finals?

Dude has zero historical moments in the finals and his impact on his team is greatly exaggerated by you and your brethren...The Apostles of Kobeville. Kobe is a regular season performer....yes his playoff performances have been good, but his finals have been weak when talking GOAT status....Kobe doing work :rolleyes: just not in the Finals


this idiot...

1. I am responding to the thread title....."Kobe is better then Jordan or EVEN COMES CLOSE.....OR EVEN COMES CLOSE.....OR EVEN COMES CLOSE...OR EVEN COMES CLOSE"

2. let's get this outta the way...he definatley comes close....he def is next to MJ....his peers , coaches and most inside the worldwide basketball community agree...

Kobe Bryant is close to MJ. Horry said Kobe is the best player he ever played with....Phil Jackson said Kobe's "allaround game" is the best he's ever seen...Barkley said he is a top 5 player alltime...Kerr , Jackson , Salley , Jack haley , Horace Grant , Corie Blount all said Kobe is better or at least on MJ's level


not too mention nearly all past laker greats saying he is the best Laker ever.


Skillwise is just about a wash....your only saving grace is marginal stat difference in 2 completley different era's...and some lame attempt about "historical Final Moments"..when Kobe Bryant has plenty...Final/playoff moments...you sound desperate.

anyone disagreeing with Kobe bieng right with MJ shouldn't even be taken seriously.

3.as far as bieng a better player?....I have been watching hoop since the early 80's...

Jordan was a dominate player..it's still really hard to see him bieng better then Bird and Magic..especially since he used to lose so much to Bird Early in his career . (I know the jordan stans will attribute "bad teams"....but it seemed like many great players were able to instantley turn thiet teams around into good/great teams...especially Bird"..Magic and Bird seemed to make the game much better and flow easier then MJ did early in his career.

I don't think resume wise you can say Kobe>MJ yet....but if Kobe can muster one more great run (much like MJ did at 33 years old) and win a few more titles...it will be very smooth to say Kobe may be better then Jordan.









(This is of course through watching the actual game...not using a clculator to find out that Kevin Love actually has a higher Per then Hakeem and that makes him better:rolleyes: )


next

[Calabis]

this idiot...

1. I am responding to the thread title....."Kobe is better then Jordan or EVEN COMES CLOSE.....OR EVEN COMES CLOSE.....OR EVEN COMES CLOSE...OR EVEN COMES CLOSE"

this moron :facepalm LOL..says the guy who has to bend and twist stats and logic to get Kobe closer to MJ


2. let's get this outta the way...he definatley comes close....he def is next to MJ....his peers , coaches and most inside the worldwide basketball community agree...

In terms of talent he is just as good, so is Lebron...in terms of dominating the game the way Jordan, Magic, etc. did he's not close at all...he hasn't been he best player in his own generation year in and year out...in terms of on the court impact.

Kobe Bryant is close to MJ. Horry said Kobe is the best player he ever played with....Phil Jackson said Kobe's "allaround game" is the best he's ever seen...Barkley said he is a top 5 player alltime...Kerr , Jackson , Salley , Jack haley , Horace Grant , Corie Blount all said Kobe is better or at least on MJ's level


not too mention nearly all past laker greats saying he is the best Laker ever.

Yup and all those guys you mentioned have Jordan as GOAT..except Salley...so what it holds weight for KObe but not Jordan...now I get it


Skillwise is just about a wash....your only saving grace is marginal stat difference in 2 completley different era's...and some lame attempt about "historical Final Moments"..when Kobe Bryant has plenty...Final/playoff moments...you sound desperate.

anyone disagreeing with Kobe bieng right with MJ shouldn't even be taken seriously.

If you learn to read, its right there in b/w where I said you are caught up on the skill thing, not results on the court...Kobe never had the impact Jordan did on the court and never will....LMAO...please give me a historical finals moment Kobe has had...GTFOH....dude has no moments close to the other greats.

3.as far as bieng a better player?....I have been watching hoop since the early 80's...

Jordan was a dominate player..it's still really hard to see him bieng better then Bird and Magic..especially since he used to lose so much to Bird Early in his career . (I know the jordan stans will attribute "bad teams"....but it seemed like many great players were able to instantley turn thiet teams around into good/great teams...especially Bird"..Magic and Bird seemed to make the game much better and flow easier then MJ did early in his career.

I don't think resume wise you can say Kobe>MJ yet....but if Kobe can muster one more great run (much like MJ did at 33 years old) and win a few more titles...it will be very smooth to say Kobe may be better then Jordan.

Not just JordanStans, but his peers he played against at that time...from 1987..if u need the link let me know(some excerpts)

And the Glide of Portland isn't shoveling bull about this Bull.

"What happened in the fourth quarter?" Someone asks.

"They started to execute their offense. In other words, Michael took over."

"Just how good is Michael?"

"MVP. He's got my vote."

OK. But what about Larry and Magic?

"If Michael had the same supporting cast as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, he would win as often as they do. If your talking who's most valuable to his team, it's Michael."

With Jordan grounded for 64 regular season games the previous year because of a broken navicular tarsal bone in his left foot, the Bulls finished 30-52 and made a token playoff appearance. With Jordan healthy, they got out of the gate deceptively fast. But it wasn't long before opponents worked Jordan hard at both ends of the floor, became more attentive to his lesser teammates and, in the process, turned what had been a season of exclamation points into questionmarks.

Or that the Lakers' Magic admits, "I have a few more horses than he does."

This mfer talking about flow, when Bird and Magic and players around them..maybe u should try watching basketball in the 80's again, because anyone who thinks Jordan had a competitive team early on, doesn't know a damn thing about basketball...he had no chance against Celtics/Lakers who were loaded





(This is of course through watching the actual game...not using a clculator to find out that Kevin Love actually has a higher Per then Hakeem and that makes him better:rolleyes: )

Says the guy who erases Kobe years to help his stats increase :rolleyes:


next

This Moron.....Kobe has no case get over it

[Calabis]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.

[glidedrxlr22]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.

:roll: :applause:

[Nevaeh]

That one's a classic Calabis. And that's exactly how Alpha's logic comes across as well. Here you have Lebron trumping Kobe's achievements left and right, yet we're supposed to somehow believe Kobe's catching MJ, who couldn't even Start during the "weak" Jordan era.

[AlphaWolf24]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.


:lol Good Job!:applause:

58 Year old Kobe>50 year old MJ....

[LelBron]

this idiot...

1. I am responding to the thread title....."Kobe is better then Jordan or EVEN COMES CLOSE.....OR EVEN COMES CLOSE.....OR EVEN COMES CLOSE...OR EVEN COMES CLOSE"

2. let's get this outta the way...he definatley comes close....he def is next to MJ....his peers , coaches and most inside the worldwide basketball community agree...

Kobe Bryant is close to MJ. Horry said Kobe is the best player he ever played with....Phil Jackson said Kobe's "allaround game" is the best he's ever seen...Barkley said he is a top 5 player alltime...Kerr , Jackson , Salley , Jack haley , Horace Grant , Corie Blount all said Kobe is better or at least on MJ's level


not too mention nearly all past laker greats saying he is the best Laker ever.


Skillwise is just about a wash....your only saving grace is marginal stat difference in 2 completley different era's...and some lame attempt about "historical Final Moments"..when Kobe Bryant has plenty...Final/playoff moments...you sound desperate.

anyone disagreeing with Kobe bieng right with MJ shouldn't even be taken seriously.

3.as far as bieng a better player?....I have been watching hoop since the early 80's...

Jordan was a dominate player..it's still really hard to see him bieng better then Bird and Magic..especially since he used to lose so much to Bird Early in his career . (I know the jordan stans will attribute "bad teams"....but it seemed like many great players were able to instantley turn thiet teams around into good/great teams...especially Bird"..Magic and Bird seemed to make the game much better and flow easier then MJ did early in his career.

I don't think resume wise you can say Kobe>MJ yet....but if Kobe can muster one more great run (much like MJ did at 33 years old) and win a few more titles...it will be very smooth to say Kobe may be better then Jordan.









(This is of course through watching the actual game...not using a clculator to find out that Kevin Love actually has a higher Per then Hakeem and that makes him better:rolleyes: )


next

http://i.imgur.com/2BdyH.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

This Moron.....Kobe has no case get over it


Game 4 2000 NBA Finals - the takeover...Kobe dominates the 4th and OT to lead LA past INDY and take charge of the series (not too mention a few games earlier game 7 WCFinals vs Portland Kobe fuels the 15 point comeback..EPIC!)

Game 2 2001 Finals - Kobe vs AI...Kobe strikes Back! Kobe Bryant had 31 points, eight rebounds and six assists -- as well as an earful of trash talk from Iverson the two superstars were going head to head in the final seconds as the series grew more confrontational.

"With Allen, he's doing whatever he can to inspire his team and fire them up," Bryant said. "But I really don't care. We're here, we're the world champions, and no matter how inspired your team may be, the championship has to come through the city of Los Angeles."

Kobe leads LA back to tie the series 1 -1


Game 3 2002 NBA Finals - the takeover part 2 .....Kobe leads LA with 36 - 6 - 4 when the series goes East....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olqGddqhhHw
the greatest Crossover in NBA Finals history at the 00:34 mark...Kobe puts on a show for the ages with every move in the book..a must watch for all basketball fans...

how quikly we forget.

Game 1 of the 2009 NBA Finals - Clutch Kobe dropps 22 Points in the 2nd half finishin with 40 - 8 - 8 and leads LA past Orlando...Kobe was Gawd

Game 7 2010 NBA Finals - DaGawd outlasts all, gettine revenge vs the C's.....struggling shooting early on he came through when it counted the most. Bryant scored 10 of his game-high 23 points in the final period, which included 8-for-9 from the free-throw line. He also had 15 rebounds.....Vacumming up every loose ball...Kobe willed LA through sheer heart and determination..

Bryant was named the Finals MVP for the second straight season.


Kobe/MJ


no one agrees wit U.....deal wit it

[OldSchoolBBall]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.

:oldlol:

[Heavincent]

Here you have Lebron trumping Kobe's achievements left and right

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Good one.

[Umad101]

Got a Q for y'all how to I create a new thread on here. I'm new here

[LelBron]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Good one.

http://i.imgur.com/KoiGN.jpg

[Nevaeh]

:lol Good Job!:applause:

58 Year old Kobe still chasing 35 year old MJ....

That's what you meant, son.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Cali Syndicate]

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]:wtf:

As it appears you're referring to me...

I'm not

[Calabis]

Game 4 2000 NBA Finals - the takeover...Kobe dominates the 4th and OT to lead LA past INDY and take charge of the series (not too mention a few games earlier game 7 WCFinals vs Portland Kobe fuels the 15 point comeback..EPIC!)

:facepalm
Yup because Shaqs 36 pts, 21 rebs was meaningless in this game as were Horry 17 pts off the bench on 60% shooting....Kobe's defense was also that of legend in this game, giving up 35 points to Reggie Miller...Kobe is a legend in this series, his 15 ppg avg is dominant

Game 2 2001 Finals - Kobe vs AI...Kobe strikes Back! Kobe Bryant had 31 points, eight rebounds and six assists -- as well as an earful of trash talk from Iverson the two superstars were going head to head in the final seconds as the series grew more confrontational.

"With Allen, he's doing whatever he can to inspire his team and fire them up," Bryant said. "But I really don't care. We're here, we're the world champions, and no matter how inspired your team may be, the championship has to come through the city of Los Angeles."

Kobe leads LA back to tie the series 1 -1

28 points and 20 boards by Shaq the MVP of the series was again meaningless, but yup Kobe going into the fourth with a 77-67 lead was dominant as ever going 1-3 in the final period

Game 3 2002 NBA Finals - the takeover part 2 .....Kobe leads LA with 36 - 6 - 4 when the series goes East....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olqGddqhhHw
the greatest Crossover in NBA Finals history at the 00:34 mark...Kobe puts on a show for the ages with every move in the book..a must watch for all basketball fans...

how quikly we forget.

:roll: This guy is extreme comedy best crossover in NBA Final :rolleyes: History...Iversons on Lue was better
Game 1 of the 2009 NBA Finals - Clutch Kobe dropps 22 Points in the 2nd half finishin with 40 - 8 - 8 and leads LA past Orlando...Kobe was Gawd

LMAO...Odom off the bench with a triple double in a blow out win, Kobe 1-5 in the fourth quarter...yes EPIC histoical performance:oldlol: Game 7 2010 NBA Finals - DaGawd outlasts all, gettine revenge vs the C's.....struggling shooting early on he came through when it counted the most. Bryant scored 10 of his game-high 23 points in the final period, which included 8-for-9 from the free-throw line. He also had 15 rebounds.....Vacumming up every loose ball...Kobe willed LA through sheer heart and determination..Bryant was named the Finals MVP for the second straight season.

:facepalm :roll: How the hell is going 6-24 in a Game 7 Historically Great?? U sir have some major issues, if you believe this is on any GOAT Finals List Performance
Kobe/MJ


no one agrees wit U.....deal wit it

No One Agrees, but I guess we all quickly forgot about these so called legendary performances

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/BestFinalsGame-Individual-intro/best-single-game-performances

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/greatest_finals_performances.html

Only top 10 ranking Kobe has in Finals performances is worst finals performances

Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, 2004
Lakers vs. Pistons -- Bryant's PER 14.2
With his feud against Shaq escalating and the series getting away from the Lakers, Bryant began taking whatever shot struck him. Mostly, they struck the rim -- he shot 38.1 percent and had nearly as many turnovers (18) as assists (22) as Detroit romped in five games.






As u would say quit reaching.....Next!!!!!

[Deuce Bigalow]

Game 1 of the 2009 NBA Finals - Clutch Kobe dropps 22 Points in the 2nd half finishin with 40 - 8 - 8 and leads LA past Orlando...Kobe was Gawd

LMAO...Odom off the bench with a triple double in a blow out win, Kobe 1-5 in the fourth quarter...yes EPIC histoical performance

:oldlol: :facepalm

End of 3rd Quarter

Lakers - 82
Magic - 58

Kobe - 36 points, 18 in 3rd Quarter in which LA outscored Orlando by 14

Dumbass

[Calabis]

:facepalm
LMAO...Odom off the bench with a triple double in a blow out win, Kobe 1-5 in the fourth quarter...yes EPIC histoical performance

:oldlol: :facepalm

End of 3rd Quarter

Lakers - 82
Magic - 58

Kobe - 36 points, 18 in 3rd Quarter in which LA outscored Orlando by 14

Dumbass

Yup he was up 10 points, what a huge Epic performance, so many lead changes and key buckets....6-11 in the 3rd, Magic were Ice Cold....yup that is right up there with Magic's playing all 5 positions and dropping 40 plus, Jordan's consecutive baskets, shrug, flu, the shot games...

The only thing epic in this series was Fisher's two 3 pointers

Didn't he have a "Epic 3 quarter " against the C's then shit the bed in the 4th?

Dumbass...acts like it was a close game and he just took over:no:

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm

Yup he was up 10 points, what a huge Epic performance, so many lead changes and key buckets....6-11 in the 3rd, Magic were Ice Cold....yup that is right up there with Magic's playing all 5 positions and dropping 40 plus

The only thing epic in this series was Fisher's two 3 pointers

Didn't he have a "Epic 3 quarter " against the C's then shit the bed in the 4th?

Dumbass...acts like it was a close game and he just took over:no:
40-8-8. How many 40-8-8 games have ever been done?

2nd Quarter: 7:05. Magic 33, Lakers 32

2nd quarter: 6:47-0:00 - Kobe scored 12 points. LA up 10
3rd quarter: 11:44-2:28 - Kobe scores 18 points. LA up 24

30 points in 2 Quarters. Not epic at all

As for the whole game?

40 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals

Through 3 Quarters?

36 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals


Next, ******.

[Calabis]

40-8-8. How many 40-8-8 games have ever been done?

2nd Quarter: 7:05. Magic 33, Lakers 32

2nd quarter: 6:47-0:00 - Kobe scored 12 points. LA up 10
3rd quarter: 11:44-2:28 - Kobe scores 18 points. LA up 24

30 points in 2 Quarters. Not epic at all

As for the whole game?

40 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals

Through 3 Quarters?

36 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals


Next, ******.

Was this some EPIC game performance...again funny how only Kobetards try to rank this with historic legend making Finals performances...it must be a conspiracy that so many writers and basketball folks don't have this ranked as # 1-5 Finals performances of all time:roll:

40% career finals shooter....must have had tons of Epic performances to get that shooting percentage

Funny when Lebron put up crazy numbers, Kobetards were calling him a stat padder...yet all Kobe's buckets were EPIC game changing shots in this game lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Was this some EPIC game performance...again funny how only Kobetards try to rank this with historic legend making Finals performances...it must be a conspiracy that so many writers and basketball folks don't have this ranked as # 1-5 Finals performances of all time:roll:

40% career finals shooter....must have had tons of Epic performances to get that shooting percentage
How is 40-8-8 not an epic performance?
Can you tell me how many times it's been done in the Finals?

And I never claimed it was #1-5 performance. :facepalm

[LBJFTW]

Not this shit again....

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269356

[Calabis]

How is 40-8-8 not an epic performance?
Can you tell me how many times it's been done in the Finals?

And I never claimed it was #1-5 performance. :facepalm

Ok.ok.ok....so let me get this straight, dude has been to 7 finals and this is the game u hang ur hat on, this is some epic Kobe game,..which in turns means close to or equal to MJ.....:facepalm

Quick question, what is Jordans best finals series in your opinion?

[AlphaWolf24]

Ok.ok.ok....so let me get this straight, dude has been to 7 finals and this is the game u hang ur hat on, this is some epic Kobe game,..which in turns means close to or equal to MJ.....:facepalm

Quick question, what is Jordans best finals series in your opinion?


7 NBA Finals and many Epic moments...the 40 - 8 - 8 game is just one of many I have listed...the Game 4 Takeover is right up there.

too go along I forgot the Hangin in mid air change direction floater over D12...:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

stay Mad..






who can name all of Bird's epic Final moments???...:lol back 2 back 8 point games:roll: :roll: :roll:

who can name all of Magic's Epic Final Moments??

What about MJ?...changing hands for no reason??.....has the sniffles game??..or was it food poisioning?....Jordan stans love to rewrite history...

6 3's against Kevin Duckworth and the Blazers?..push off on Russell...

pfft..Kobe/MJ deal wit it

[Heavincent]

7 NBA Finals and many Epic moments...the 40 - 8 - 8 game is just one of many I have listed...the Game 4 Takeover is right up there.

too go along I forgot the Hangin in mid air change direction floater over D12...:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

stay Mad..


Not to mention your avatar is from that game

http://benzandabackpack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/kobe-scowl.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f42xjUtR39c at 4:54

:bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

Was this some EPIC game performance...again funny how only Kobetards try to rank this with historic legend making Finals performances...it must be a conspiracy that so many writers and basketball folks don't have this ranked as # 1-5 Finals performances of all time:roll:

40% career finals shooter....must have had tons of Epic performances to get that shooting percentage

Funny when Lebron put up crazy numbers, Kobetards were calling him a stat padder...yet all Kobe's buckets were EPIC game changing shots in this game lol


http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/jack_mccallum/04/13/best.of.rest/t1_rasheed.wallace.jpg



dang..aint no reason to bring Lebron in a final moment thread...dat ***** needs to score 81 to make people forget about his collapse's

[Calabis]

:facepalm



http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/jack_mccallum/04/13/best.of.rest/t1_rasheed.wallace.jpg



dang..aint no reason to bring Lebron in a final moment thread...dat ***** needs to score 81 to make people forget about his collapse's

:biggums:

says the guy who just brought up Game 7 vs Celtics 2010 as EPIC:facepalm

Point is his game was pretty damn great, the KobeTrolls called him a stat padder....now we bring in the 2009 NBA Finals...:oldlol: Kobe zero EPIC finals performances/series in 7 tries

Only thing I remember from that series from Kobe was the nice shot he hit on Howard....the only EPIC moments I remember were by Fisher, who hit two big threes, one to put it into OT and one to win it

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Asukal]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.

WTF! :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheMan]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


next
cool story, fakkit

[oh the horror]

- Much like CroCop dominated against weak compitetion in Pride...he got merked when he went to the UFC ..

- Jordan got merked in the 80's...dominated the watered down 90's...came back and played in the modern era and shot 41% once again got Merked.

- Kobe as starter ages 21 - 32 years old = 28.6 PPG 6reb 5ast , 5 Titles by far the greatest player of his generation..nearly all stats similar to MJ.

similar players ...similar results...



http://przesadka.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/gonzagaKickcrocop.gif


next


So basically you're not going to note that Mike in the 80s played with a lackluster Chicago team for the most part, and was also pretty raw in terms of his game?


He then proceeded to peak in the 90s, his game was polished.



When he returned, he was an old man, playing for the damn Wizards.


Citing the era seems ridiculous.



Look dude, unless you're fu*king 18 years old, or have a massive agenda and are posting nonsensical dribble on purpose, I shouldnt see why another full grown adult should explain to you wtf is wrong with your point there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe zero EPIC finals performances/series in 7 tries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f42xjUtR39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNQPFCjBCIg

[Calabis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f42xjUtR39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNQPFCjBCIg

:facepalm

Just nevermind dude, none of that shit is EPIC or Memorable....I clicked on you first link.....Shaq 30+ points, 20+ boards in that game....Kobe got hot and had the luxury to pick his spots with Shaq.....he also gave up 35 to Miller that game....but ok 7 Finals one Epic performance.....but his play in that series was not EPIC, which is why no one has any of his Finals series performances listed in the Top 10

2nd vid??:facepalm U think that shit is more memorable than his piss poor performance in that series...its ranked in the top worst series performances of all time

4th vid...I already mentioned that to you(they were still down how many points after his EPIC moment :oldlol: ), do you remember what he did in the 4th quarter of that game....exactly nothing, which is why they lost...so now Epic Games, result in losses:roll: :roll:

GAME 3 1991: Vlade hits what appears to be a GAME WINNER, Jordan drives the length of the floor hits the shot over Vlade(Jams toe), sends it into OT, in OT the Bulls score 10 points, Jordan 6 crucial points and assisted on Paxson jumper, 3 Rebs in OT...Game in hand when Grant makes a jumper at the end....all this with Pippen fouled out on the bench....guess what not to many people have this as a EPIC moment by Jordan

[OldSchoolBBall]

GAME 3 1991: Vlade hits what appears to be a GAME WINNER, Jordan drives the length of the floor hits the shot over Vlade(Jams toe), sends it into OT, in OT the Bulls score 10 points, Jordan 6 crucial points and assisted on Paxson jumper, 3 Rebs in OT...Game in hand when Grant makes a jumper at the end....all this with Pippen fouled out on the bench....guess what not to many people have this as a EPIC moment by Jordan

Seriously. If dude knew how many playoff games/stretches/quarters like the ones he posted for Kobe or better Jordan had he wouldn't even embarrass himself by citing those. It's a joke. I can name a dozen off the top of my head that are literally NEVER mentioned when one discusses MJ's big playoff games/moments, all of which are better than most of those.

[Calabis]

Seriously. If dude knew how many playoff games/stretches/quarters like the ones he posted for Kobe or better Jordan had he wouldn't even embarrass himself by citing those. It's a joke. I can name a dozen off the top of my head that are literally NEVER mentioned when one discusses MJ's big playoff games/moments, all of which are better than most of those.

Exactly....:applause: ....Kobetard says "Kobe scored 40 vs Magic...that's EPIC"
"Kobe had a good 3rd quarter vs Celtics in a loss" that's EPIC

Jordan avg 40 for a series and had 55.....I don't see anyone claiming that is a EPIC Jordan moment....not many even claim this is his best series...Jordans consecutive buckets against Lakers...but yet, no one hangs their hat on that moment......but you not the tards...:roll:

[Dragonyeuw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIT_SLL25GA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f42xjUtR39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNQPFCjBCIg

Very good performances, but after seeing Jordan drop 13 straight shots on the Lakers, 35 in a half with 6 three's on Drexler, 54 on the Suns and averaging 41 for the series, 38 with the flu on the road, and 45 and the championship-winning shot on the road in Utah, those games don't especially come off as epic. That level of play was standard finals performances for Jordan particularly for the first 3peat, but you've highlighted them as Kobe's absolute best. Jordan reached levels in the playoffs on numerous occasions that Kobe rarely, if at all, touched.

[Simple Jack]

Seriously. If dude knew how many playoff games/stretches/quarters like the ones he posted for Kobe or better Jordan had he wouldn't even embarrass himself by citing those. It's a joke. I can name a dozen off the top of my head that are literally NEVER mentioned when one discusses MJ's big playoff games/moments, all of which are better than most of those.

List em'...I'm interested.

[longtime lurker]

In actuality no poster says Kobe is greater than Jordan. It's always a straw man argument that haters make up. I remember there was a top ten thread according to ISH and not a single person had Kobe as the greatest player of all time.

[LakersForlife]

81 points all i can say..

[Calabis]

81 points all i can say..

:eek: Was that in the playoffs or Finals....I missed that shit

[RRR3]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[AK47DR91]

Here is what ALphaWolf is waiting for, which in his view will make Kobe GOAT

KOBE GETS 6TH RING AT AGE 58
Published: JULY 25, 2037 11:20 pm

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tmedny20/kobeold.jpg

It may have taken 27 years, since his last championship, but Kobe Bryant has finally tied Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant and current Iraqi born, Seattle Crabcatchers superstar Mohammed Jassim Ali, for six NBA championships. Although the picture above shows the 58 year old Kobe Bryant celebrating after scoring a bucket against his own team, due to an ongoing bout with Alzheimers, his coach stated, he just enjoyed Kobe showing that old school fire, that still burns inside. The Los Angeles Lakers had already built a comfortable 18 point lead, prior to Kobe being put in the game, during the final 37 seconds, of the fourth quarter. Kobe fired off 5 shots in that time and 2 of them were at the wrong basket. Lakers Coach Andrew Bynum stated he just wanted to let the elderly Kobe get in the game, once things were in hand.
:oldlol: Funny ass shit right there, especially the thought of Andrew Bynum being a Head Coach. :lol

[LakersReign]

]In actuality no poster says Kobe is greater than Jordan. It's always a straw man argument that haters make up.[/B] I remember there was a top ten thread according to ISH and not a single person had Kobe as the greatest player of all time.

That's been extremely obvious for a while now. They usually love to bring up Alphawolf, like he speaks for ALL Laker/Kobe fans. Trying to say cuz he said something ret**ded, ALL Laker/kobe fans think or say the same thing. When we all know that isn't even close to being true.

[Calabis]

That's been extremely obvious for a while now. They usually love to bring up Alphawolf, like he speaks for ALL Laker/Kobe fans. Trying to say cuz he said something ret**ded, ALL Laker/kobe fans think or say the same thing. When we all know that isn't even close to being true.

I don't think this of all Lakerfans...because most real Laker fans don't say outlandish crap....its strictly Kobefans(ie not Lakerfans) that try to tear down any player that is a threat to their lord and savior....Jordan, Bird and Magic, played in a weak era, full of slow white guys......Wilt, Russell, played in a era full of unathletic short white dudes.....90's era was weak.....it seems that in all the years of Basketball, only Kobe has played in the juggernaut years.....yet when Lebronfans mention Lebron being the best in the game(I am not a James fan) they tear him down and elevate his teammates to Top 10 GOAT status, and call him a stat padder.

[Cali Syndicate]

I don't think this of all Lakerfans...because most real Laker fans don't say outlandish crap....its strictly Kobefans(ie not Lakerfans) that try to tear down any player that is a threat to their lord and savior....Jordan, Bird and Magic, played in a weak era, full of slow white guys......Wilt, Russell, played in a era full of unathletic short white dudes.....90's era was weak.....it seems that in all the years of Basketball, only Kobe has played in the juggernaut years.....yet when Lebronfans mention Lebron being the best in the game(I am not a James fan) they tear him down and elevate his teammates to Top 10 GOAT status, and call him a stat padder.

QFT. However all stans do that, not just Kobe stans.

[LJJ]

If you are going to rank their seasons, there are going to be at least 12 Jordan seasons ranked before you could rank Bryant's very best season.

[Rysio]

If you are going to rank their seasons, there are going to be at least 12 Jordan seasons ranked before you could rank Bryant's very best season.
gtfo 6 or 7 at most

[OldSchoolBBall]

List em'...I'm interested.

- 35 pts/8 reb/7 ast (13-20 FG) vs. Milwaukee, rookie year. Has 13 points in the final 6:00 including the game-winner, and does it against two defensive first-teamers (including the DPOY) in Pressey and Moncrief.

- 49 points vs. Boston, game 1 of the 1986 playoffs. His second game, the 63-point playoff record, is remembered, but this one is never mentioned when people talk of MJ's playoff heroics/games/moments despite him putting near 50 on defensive first-teamer Dennis Johnson and perhaps the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics with no help around him. Did this in his first full game played after coming back a dozen games earlier from a foot fracture that sidelined him for several months (he was playing ~25 mpg in the regular season games he played in before the playoffs).

- His back-to-back 50 and 55-point games vs. Cleveland in the '88 playoffs, seldom mentioned.

- 44 pts/10 ast/5 stl on 18-34 FG (30 points in the second half) in a win vs. a much more talented Cleveland team in 1989 game 3.

I'll add (many) more later, gotta run for a bit.

[OldSchoolBBall]

gtfo 6 or 7 at most

'87-'93 and '96. That's 8.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm

Just nevermind dude, none of that shit is EPIC or Memorable....I clicked on you first link.....Shaq 30+ points, 20+ boards in that game....Kobe got hot and had the luxury to pick his spots with Shaq.....he also gave up 35 to Miller that game....but ok 7 Finals one Epic performance.....but his play in that series was not EPIC, which is why no one has any of his Finals series performances listed in the Top 10

2nd vid??:facepalm U think that shit is more memorable than his piss poor performance in that series...its ranked in the top worst series performances of all time

4th vid...I already mentioned that to you(they were still down how many points after his EPIC moment :oldlol: ), do you remember what he did in the 4th quarter of that game....exactly nothing, which is why they lost...so now Epic Games, result in losses:roll: :roll:

GAME 3 1991: Vlade hits what appears to be a GAME WINNER, Jordan drives the length of the floor hits the shot over Vlade(Jams toe), sends it into OT, in OT the Bulls score 10 points, Jordan 6 crucial points and assisted on Paxson jumper, 3 Rebs in OT...Game in hand when Grant makes a jumper at the end....all this with Pippen fouled out on the bench....guess what not to many people have this as a EPIC moment by Jordan
:facepalm

So when Fisher hits a 3 to tie the game and send it to OT, it's epic. When Kobe does the same thing in an even bigger game (down 0-1, down 0-2 if he misses) it's not epic.
Scoring 17 points in a row in less than 6 minutes isn't epic at all either. I mean it's only been done hundreds of times before.
Scoring 8 points in overtime with your best player fouled out and winning the game is not even close to being epic.
Ok I see :facepalm

btw can you list me all the "epic" games from Larry Bird and Hakeem

[Rysio]

'87-'93 and '96. That's 8.
lol at 87

shooting 48% in the 80s is like shooting 38-40% in todays league. next

[Calabis]

:facepalm

So when Fisher hits a 3 to tie the game and send it to OT, it's epic. When Kobe does the same thing in an even bigger game (down 0-1, down 0-2 if he misses) it's not epic.
Scoring 17 points in a row in less than 6 minutes isn't epic at all either. I mean it's only been done hundreds of times before.
Scoring 8 points in overtime with your best player fouled out and winning the game is not even close to being epic.
Ok I see :facepalm

btw can you list me all the "epic" games from Larry Bird and Hakeem

LMAO...again 2004 Finals, Kobe played a selfish brand of basketball and is remembered for a horrible series, not a shot in Game 2.....do you see people talking about Game 1 vs Utah(1997), Jordan hitting the walkoff??? No.....and yes the most Epic moment of the 2009 series was Fisher coming through not once but twice in the same game with two huge 3's

Scoring 17 points in 6 minutes, but was still down by what 6-10 points(i can't recall) then he disappeared in the 4th and they lost...how the hell is that EPIC

I said you're right vs Pacers he took over and had a great game....I gave you that one...1 time in 7 trips..., to me it was just a damn good game, where is the 2010 WCF performance in a Finals Series?

[Deuce Bigalow]

LMAO...again 2004 Finals, Kobe played a selfish brand of basketball and is remembered for a horrible series, not a shot in Game 2.....do you see people talking about Game 1 vs Utah(1997), Jordan hitting the walkoff??? No.....and yes the most Epic moment of the 2009 series was Fisher coming through not once but twice in the same game with two huge 3's

Scoring 17 points in 6 minutes, but was still down by what 6-10 pointsd(i can't recall) then he disappeared in the 4th and they lost...how the hell is that EPIC

I said you're right vs Pacers he took over and had a great game....I gave you that one...1 time in 7 trips..., to me it was just a damn good game, where is the 2010 WCF performance in a Finals Series?
'04 game 2, he hit the 3 to send it to OT, then scored 4 points in the OT. Fisher did the same thing, except he only scored 3 points in OT, and that was because of the defensive attention on Kobe in OT. Also Kobe finished with 33 points, Fisher finished with 12.
So if Fisher's was 'epic", Kobe's was too. And I'm not talking about the series, I'm talking about a performance, and that performance was great.

17 straight points is epic. And the reason why they were still down was not Kobe's fault, he scored 17 in a row, his team couldn't play defense that game. And disappeared in the 4th? Uh no he didn't, he finished that game with 38-5-4. His second best player scored 12 points.

[Calabis]

lol at 87

shooting 48% in the 80s is like shooting 38-40% in todays league. next

:facepalm

[Calabis]

'04 game 2, he hit the 3 to send it to OT, then scored 4 points in the OT. Fisher did the same thing, except he only scored 3 points in OT, and that was because of the defensive attention on Kobe in OT. Also Kobe finished with 33 points, Fisher finished with 12.
So if Fisher's was 'epic", Kobe's was too. And I'm not talking about the series, I'm talking about a performance, and that performance was great.

17 straight points is epic. And the reason why they were still down was not Kobe's fault, he scored 17 in a row, his team couldn't play defense that game. And disappeared in the 4th? Uh no he didn't, he finished that game with 38-5-4. His second best player scored 12 points.

I didn't say Fisher had a EPIC game, I said he had a EPIC Moment and 17 straight points doesn't mean crap if it didn't turn the game and u'r team still lost and he didn't do shit in the fourth

he went 2-6 with his last made FG coming at the 7:58 mark in the 4th, his only other points came on two BS calls 2:55 mark(where was he for 5 minutes?), the bogus phatom call on Allen on the three point attempt with the game practically in hand.

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol at 87

shooting 48% in the 80s is like shooting 38-40% in todays league. next

Jordan shot at league average. So did Kobe in '06 (which I'm assuming you feel is his best season). Jordan also averaged 1.7 more ppg. he also became the first player in history to record a 200+ stl/100+ blk season (with 236 stl/125 blk) the same year he became only the second player in history to score 3000 points in a season. He had 37 games of 40+ points. He also became the second player in history to post three straight 50+ point games. he averaged 40.1 ppg/53% FG in Chicago's wins, meaning that he had to be absolutely out of this world in order for Chicago to win.

No, Kobe's best season was not better than Jordan's 1987. Strictly in terms of scoring it can be argued, yes, but as a total all-around effort? Not even close. The energy and stamina it takes to post 37 ppg and do all that while being EVERYWHERE defensively like he was is well beyond what Kobe's engine has ever shown him to be capable of.

[RazorBaLade]

who in this thread is arguing that kobe is better than jordan? can anyone show me 3 diff people?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jordan shot at league average. So did Kobe in '06 (which I'm assuming you feel is his best season). Jordan also averaged 1.7 more ppg. he also became the first player in history to record a 200+ stl/100+ blk season (with 236 stl/125 blk) the same year he became only the second player in history to score 3000 points in a season. He had 37 games of 40+ points. He also became the second player in history to post three straight 50+ point games. he averaged 40.1 ppg/53% FG in Chicago's wins, meaning that he had to be absolutely out of this world in order for Chicago to win.

No, Kobe's best season was not better than Jordan's 1987. Strictly in terms of scoring it can be argued, yes, but as a total all-around effort? Not even close. The energy and stamina it takes to post 37 ppg and do all that while being EVERYWHERE defensively like he was is well beyond what Kobe's engine has ever shown him to be capable of.
You're comparing a league that averaged 110 ppg to one that averaged 97 ppg.

[OldSchoolBBall]

You're comparing a league that averaged 110 ppg to one that averaged 97 ppg.

Because teams had more guys who could score (more concentration of talent), not because individual players were scoring more than they did during Kobe's big scoring seasons. In fact, Jordan averaged 8.1 ppg more than the second place finisher, while Kobe averaged just 2.4 ppg more than the second place finisher. 3 players finished within 3 ppg of Kobe, while only 3 players were even within 10 ppg of Jordan.

Jordan's '87 season was easily more impressive than Kobe's '06 as a total season (not just scoring, where as I said, they're comparable). It's not even arguable.

[RazorBaLade]

Because teams had more guys who could score (more concentration of talent), not because individual players were scoring more than they did during Kobe's big scoring seasons. In fact, Jordan averaged 8.1 ppg more than the second place finisher, while Kobe averaged just 2.4 ppg more than the second place finisher. 3 players finished within 3 ppg of Kobe, while only 3 players were even within 10 ppg of Jordan.

Jordan's '87 season was easily more impressive than Kobe's '06 as a total season (not just scoring, where as I said, they're comparable). It's not even arguable.

dont those 2 statements contradict each other?

[OldSchoolBBall]

dont those 2 statements contradict each other?

No. I mean that there were more players per team capable of giving you 14-20 ppg on any given night, leading to higher team scoring, but individual superstars did not average as much as they did in '06, even when on poor teams. Clearly this was obvious but I guess you want to pick nits.

[RazorBaLade]

No. I mean that there were more players per team capable of giving you 14-20 ppg on any given night, leading to higher team scoring, but individual superstars did not average as much as they did in '06, even when on poor teams. Clearly this was obvious but I guess you want to pick nits.

no I just really didn't understand your point. It seemed like you said guys were scoring more in 87, heres an example of guys scoring more in 06. byut i get it now, u mean league average wise.

[diamenz]

the stats, achievements and awards aren't even close:

http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/2012/05/kobe-bryant-vs-michael-jordan-comparison-2012/

why even think of comparing?