Vote - #6 Playoff Run of All-Time by a FMVP

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. 1995 Hakeem Olajuwon
2. 1991 Michael Jordan
3. 2000 Shaquille O'Neal
4. 1993 Michael Jordan
5. 1992 Michael Jordan


NBA Finals MVP - Postseason stats

YEAR PLAYER FG% PPG RPG APG BLKPG

2012 LeBron James .500 30.3 9.7 5.6 0.7
2011 Dirk Nowitzki .485 27.7 8.1 2.5 0.6
2010 Kobe Bryant .458 29.2 6.0 5.5 0.7
2009 Kobe Bryant .457 30.2 5.3 5.5 0.9
2008 Paul Pierce .441 19.7 5.0 4.6 0.3
2007 Tony Parker .480 20.8 3.4 5.8 0.0
2006 Dwyane Wade .497 28.4 5.9 5.7 1.1
2005 Tim Duncan .464 23.6 12.4 2.7 2.3
2004 Chauncey Billups .385 16.4 3.0 5.9 0.1
2003 Tim Duncan .529 24.7 15.4 5.3 3.3
2002 Shaquille O'Neal .529 28.5 12.6 2.8 2.5
2001 Shaquille O'Neal .555 30.4 15.4 3.2 2.4
2000 Shaquille O'Neal .566 30.7 15.4 3.1 2.4
1999 Tim Duncan .511 23.2 11.5 2.8 2.6
1998 Michael Jordan .462 32.4 5.1 3.5 0.6
1997 Michael Jordan .456 31.1 7.9 4.8 0.9
1996 Michael Jordan .459 30.7 4.9 4.1 0.3
1995 Hakeem Olajuwon .531 33.0 10.3 4.5 2.8
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon .519 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0
1993 Michael Jordan .475 35.1 6.7 6.0 0.9
1992 Michael Jordan .499 34.5 6.2 5.8 0.7
1991 Michael Jordan .524 31.1 6.4 8.4 1.4
1990 Isiah Thomas .463 20.5 5.5 8.2 0.4
1989 Joe Dumars .455 17.6 2.6 5.6 0.1
1988 James Worthy .523 21.1 5.8 4.4 0.8
1987 Magic Johnson .539 21.8 7.7 12.2 0.4
1986 Larry Bird .517 25.9 9.3 8.2 0.6
1985 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.560 21.9 8.1 4.0 1.9
1984 Larry Bird .524 27.5 11.0 5.9 1.2
1983 Moses Malone .536 26.0 15.8 1.5 1.9
1982 Magic Johnson .529 17.4 11.3 9.3 0.2
1981 Cedric Maxwell .580 16.1 7.4 2.7 0.9
1980 Magic Johnson .518 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4
1979 Dennis Johnson .450 20.9 6.1 4.1 1.5
1978 Westley Unseld .530 9.4 12.0 4.4 0.4
1977 Bill Walton .507 18.2 15.2 5.5 3.4
1976 Joe White .445 22.7 3.9 5.4 0.1
1975 Rick Barry .444 28.2 5.5 6.1 0.9
1974 John Havlicek .484 27.1 6.4 6.0 0.3
1973 Willis Reed .466 12.5 7.6 1.8
1972 Wilt Chamberlain .563 14.7 21.0 3.3
1971 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.515 26.6 17.0 2.5
1970 Willis Reed .471 23.7 13.8 2.8
1969 Jerry West .463 30.9 3.9 7.5

Voting Results

2001 Shaquille O'Neal - 13
2012 Lebron James - 8
1998 Michael Jordan - 2
2009 Kobe Bryant - 2
2003 Tim Duncan - 1
2010 Kobe Bryant - 1
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon - 1

[inclinerator]

kobe brian

[1987_Lakers]

2001 Shaq

[Derivative]

1998 Michael Jordan

Most epic playoff run ever....

35 year old GOAT on his last legs, leading his tired and broken down teams to the second 3 peat in 8 years....

averaging 32ppg while the second best player scottie pippen only average 16.....

completely carried the bulls team......

finals game 6....

posted 28 PER in the playoffs which is higher than 99.9% of other players in history, at age 35!!

[LikeABosh]

shaq 01'

[Jax]

1998 Michael Jordan

Most epic playoff run ever....

35 year old GOAT on his last legs, leading his tired and broken down teams to the second 3 peat in 8 years....

averaging 32ppg while the second best player scottie pippen only average 16.....

completely carried the bulls team......

finals game 6....

posted 28 PER in the playoffs which is higher than 99.9% of other players in history, at age 35!!
Pretty sure that's not true.

[Derivative]

Pretty sure that's not true.

for a final's mvp it's pretty true, there's only 3-4 other finals MVP in history that has posted a PER higher than that

[Bernie Nips]

LeBron 2012.

[IGotACoolStory]

2003 Duncan.

[raprap]

LeBron James 2012

[AlonzoGOAT]

Lbj 12

[Wavy Crockett]

Jordan played awful in those '98 Finals. Maybe he was picking up Pippen's slack.

33.5 ppg 42.7% 2.3 apg 4.5 rpg

[Derivative]

Jordan played awful in those '98 Finals. Maybe he was picking up Pippen's slack.

33.5 ppg 42.7% 2.3 apg 4.5 rpg

compare that to how rest of the bulls played

[ShaqAttack3234]

2001 Shaq

Too historic of run, he leads the Lakers to the best playoff record ever at 15-1, becomes the first player in NBA history with back to back 40/20 playoff games, has the second 30/15 championship run ever(the other was his '00 championship run), has just the 3rd 30/15 run in at least 15 games(along with Kareem in '74 and his own '00 run) and ties the finals record at the time for blocks in a game.

Ends up with three 40/20 games, a near quadruple double and five 20/20 games. Also has 2 of the all-time great series averaging 33/17/3 on 60% vs Sacramento and 33/16/5/3 on 57% vs Philly and the DPOY Mutombo.

Faces two top 5 defensive teams in the Spurs and Philly and the top 3 defensive big men(or defensive players overall) in Mutombo, Robinson and Duncan. And he destroys quality 7 foot centers in every round.

The only other run I think has a case over that one that hasn't been chosen is Hakeem's '94.

[SilkkTheShocker]

2012 Lebron

[Deuce Bigalow]

2001 Shaq

[Deuce Bigalow]

PPG difference between leading scorer and 2nd leading scorer in the Playoffs on Championship team:

1. '98 Jordan: 15.6
2. '94 Hakeem: 15.1
3. '92 Jordan: 15.05
4. '93 Jordan: 15.0
5. '96 Jordan: 13.8
6. '75 Rick Barry: 13.2
7. '95 Hakeem: 12.5
8. '09 Kobe: 11.96
9. '97 Jordan: 11.9
10. '11 Dirk: 10.2
11. '03 Duncan: 10.04
12. '06 Wade: 10.0
13. '10 Kobe: 9.61
14. '00 Shaq: 9.6
15. '91 Jordan: 9.5

'94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan are getting a little underrated right now since not only did they score 10+ more points than their second option, they also led their team in rebounds, assists, and blocks. '94 Hakeem also led his team in steals too.

[ShaqAttack3234]

PPG difference between leading scorer and 2nd leading scorer in the Playoffs on Championship team:

1. '98 Jordan: 15.6
2. '94 Hakeem: 15.1
3. '92 Jordan: 15.05
4. '93 Jordan: 15.0
5. '96 Jordan: 13.8
6. '75 Rick Barry: 13.2
7. '95 Hakeem: 12.5
8. '09 Kobe: 11.96
9. '97 Jordan: 11.9
10. '11 Dirk: 10.2
11. '03 Duncan: 10.04
12. '06 Wade: 10.0
13. '10 Kobe: 9.61
14. '00 Shaq: 9.6
15. '91 Jordan: 9.5

'94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan are getting a little underrated right now since not only did they score 10+ more points than their second option, they also led their team in rebounds, assists, and blocks. '94 Hakeem also led his team in steals too.

Well, they're not really underrated considering the only ones selected so far have been 1st 3peat Jordan, '95 Hakeem and '00 Shaq. Pretty tough to argue with those.

But I'm surprised at all of the '12 Lebron votes already. No way was he better than '94 Hakeem, '01 Shaq or '03 Duncan.

[alenleomessi]

Lebron

[cteach111]

Well, they're not really underrated considering the only ones selected so far have been 1st 3peat Jordan, '95 Hakeem and '00 Shaq. Pretty tough to argue with those.

But I'm surprised at all of the '12 Lebron votes already. No way was he better than '94 Hakeem, '01 Shaq or '03 Duncan.

what's really odd is the consistency from thread to thread in terms of voting. 92 Jordan was getting no love in a prior thread over 03 Duncan and then all these Jordan votes come out of no where in the next thread.

This thread, there's a lot of Lebron votes that weren't there from last thread. 03 Duncan votes apparently have vanished as well

:confusedshrug:

[ripthekik]

Shaq 2001

[Derivative]

PPG difference between leading scorer and 2nd leading scorer in the Playoffs on Championship team:

1. '98 Jordan: 15.6
2. '94 Hakeem: 15.1
3. '92 Jordan: 15.05
4. '93 Jordan: 15.0
5. '96 Jordan: 13.8
6. '75 Rick Barry: 13.2
7. '95 Hakeem: 12.5
8. '09 Kobe: 11.96
9. '97 Jordan: 11.9
10. '11 Dirk: 10.2
11. '03 Duncan: 10.04
12. '06 Wade: 10.0
13. '10 Kobe: 9.61
14. '00 Shaq: 9.6
15. '91 Jordan: 9.5

'94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan are getting a little underrated right now since not only did they score 10+ more points than their second option, they also led their team in rebounds, assists, and blocks. '94 Hakeem also led his team in steals too.


this is why 98 mj's playoff run is so epic he was 35 years old too

[BallsOut]

2001 Shaq

[Deuce Bigalow]

this is why 98 mj's playoff run is so epic he was 35 years old too
Yep. Plus his great defensive teammates were past their prime too. Pippen was 32, Rodman was 36, turned 37 during the run.

[pauk]

2012 Lebron

This is just getting silly... "For the remainder of this thread lets just try now desperately to squeeze in as many players as possible ahead of Lebron, even tho he had a better playoff run than them"

[DTreats]

Kobe 10

[nnn123]

Shaq 01....by a huge margin imo

[Carbine]

'12 Bron

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well, they're not really underrated considering the only ones selected so far have been 1st 3peat Jordan, '95 Hakeem and '00 Shaq. Pretty tough to argue with those.

But I'm surprised at all of the '12 Lebron votes already. No way was he better than '94 Hakeem, '01 Shaq or '03 Duncan.
I was comparing it to the Lebron votes in this thread.

[ShaqAttack3234]

2012 Lebron

This is just getting silly... "For the remainder of this thread lets just try now desperately to squeeze in as many players as possible ahead of Lebron, even tho he had a better playoff run than them"

:oldlol: It's getting silly to vote for '01 Shaq over '12 Lebron?

You're kidding, right? You know that I appreciate what Lebron did. But it wasn't what Shaq did in '01.

Here's what Larry Brown said about Shaq after he destroyed their team.


What a dominant player he is. This guy, he's as good as they get. And I've never seen a better player in my life. I mean that."

And then there's Hakeem in '94. Has there ever been a better two-way player than Hakeem that year? His ability to anchor his team's defense was unbelievable. One of the great shot blockers ever, and unlike many of them, he had the mobility to switch on to perimeter players. And Houston's offense was Hakeem scoring in the post, or drawing doubles and kicking it out to the 3 point shooters.

And Duncan in '03, took his offense to another level, had some big scoring games, was completely dominated on the boards, his defense was pretty much as good as I've seen, and his passing was phenomenal, running much of the Spurs offense through the post.

[ThatCoolKid]

Why don't you compare statistics that account for differences in pace and use eFG % instead of FG %?

[Thorn]

'94 Hakeem

[IGotACoolStory]

lol @ thinking you can bring out an intelligent conversation with Pauk. Especially when the topic involves LeBron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why don't you compare statistics that account for differences in pace and use eFG % instead of FG %?
I put the basic stats on there. ppg, rpg, apg, bpg, fg%. Anybody can go to basketball reference and check out the other numbers if they want to.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

[AlonzoGOAT]

wrong thread delete

[joeysms55]

2012 James

[Doctor Rivers]

2012 Lebron

This is just getting silly... "For the remainder of this thread lets just try now desperately to squeeze in as many players as possible ahead of Lebron, even tho he had a better playoff run than them"

Dude lay off LeBron's man cream for once.

2001 Shaq

[Doctor Rivers]

2012 James

This vote shouldn't count lol

[tmacattack33]

2001 Shaq.

[Duncan21formvp]

1998 Michael Jordan

Most epic playoff run ever....

35 year old GOAT on his last legs, leading his tired and broken down teams to the second 3 peat in 8 years....

averaging 32ppg while the second best player scottie pippen only average 16.....

completely carried the bulls team......

finals game 6....

posted 28 PER in the playoffs which is higher than 99.9% of other players in history, at age 35!!

I think I can agree with this as well. Was also the only allstar on his team and had to upset a team to win it all with his 2nd guy playing injured.

[pauk]

Well, they're not really underrated considering the only ones selected so far have been 1st 3peat Jordan, '95 Hakeem and '00 Shaq. Pretty tough to argue with those.

But I'm surprised at all of the '12 Lebron votes already. No way was he better than '94 Hakeem, '01 Shaq or '03 Duncan.

01 Shaq? You might be correct..
94 Hakeem? You might be correct..
03 Duncan? You might be very wrong, can you explain why you think so? I will give you some facts downstairs:

1:
Lebron dropped MUCH better overall numbers than 03 Duncan, PER rating at 30.3, #3 highest of all these players playoff runs with numbers of 30-10-6-2-1@50%FG, led his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals and had a better defensive impact aswell (unless you think blocks > dominant versatility/shutting down the best player when it matters whether it is a PG-SG-SF or PF), led everybody in 4th qtr scoring, clutch stats, while having a worse productive supporting cast than 03 Duncan (ill show you downstairs)...

2.
Duncan had a MUCH better Coach in Gregg Popovich and MUCH better depth, his supporting cast was more productive... especially offensively... no way you say?

Duncans supporting cast produced that playoff run: 74.9 PPG, 16.3 APG

Lebrons supporting cast produced that playoff run: 74.5 PPG, 12.3 APG

So much for name value of Wade & Bosh huh? (who was injured and played crippled anyways whom Lebron basically got to the Finals without) when Duncans supporting cast of Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, David Robinson, Malik Rose, Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, S. Claxton outproduced Lebrons ENTIRE supporting cast especially Offensively......

3.
Duncan faced much worse competition than Lebron in the Finals by a .59% win team, New Jersey Nets... and had HCA... winning 4-2.... Duncan averaged 24-17-5...

Lebron faced a 71% win team, who were the hottest team in the NBA that absolutely raped everybody in the Western Conference, were the favorites to win it all, but Heat won 4-1 and without HCA... Lebron averaged 29-10-7.....




Now... you might pick 03 Duncan all you like, but please dont run around blatantly thinking 03 Duncan had undebatably a better playoff run, if anybody had a better playoff run between 12 Lebron and 03 Duncan than it is leaning more towards Lebron as not me but those facts above show you...

[Derrick]

shaq 2001

[Heavincent]

01 Shaq

[RRR3]

@Pauk,
Just a warning: you better be ready if you're going to argue with Shaqattack:lol

[BallsOut]

Well, they're not really underrated considering the only ones selected so far have been 1st 3peat Jordan, '95 Hakeem and '00 Shaq. Pretty tough to argue with those.

But I'm surprised at all of the '12 Lebron votes already. No way was he better than '94 Hakeem, '01 Shaq or '03 Duncan.

Don't be surprised. Pauk and his 10 alternate accounts out in full force voting for Lebron like China trying to vote Yao Ming into the all star game.

[Heavincent]

But I'm surprised at all of the '12 Lebron votes already. No way was he better than '94 Hakeem, '01 Shaq or '03 Duncan.

It just happened, so people are living in the moment. Lebron's playoff run was obviously fantastic, but you're probably right. I'd put Lebron's 2012 run right around Kobe's 09 run and Dirk's 11 run.

[joeysms55]

This vote shouldn't count lol


and yours should? are you a basketball genius or something?

[Derivative]

i vote for 1998 jordan

[Carbine]

It just happened, so people are living in the moment. Lebron's playoff run was obviously fantastic, but you're probably right. I'd put Lebron's 2012 run right around Kobe's 09 run and Dirk's 11 run.

It's the opposite, actually.

It doesn't get its proper due because it just happened. Just like with guys careers, we don't take them for what it's worth while they're doing it....the old saying you don't know what you have until it's gone, it's true. People/fans don't appreciate fully the player until he no longer is that player.

I promise you in five years, ten years when people look back onto this LeBron playoff run...it's going to be talked about in the same vein as any other playoff run.

[OldSchoolBBall]

'01 Shaq. Utter domination. lol @ anyone mentioning Lebron's '12 over Shaq's '01. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

As great as LBJ's playoff run was, it seems to me that it would be hard to argue he had a larger impact than prime Shaq.

[pegasus]

2001 Shaq.

[SilkkTheShocker]

It just happened, so people are living in the moment. Lebron's playoff run was obviously fantastic, but you're probably right. I'd put Lebron's 2012 run right around Kobe's 09 run and Dirk's 11 run.

Lebron's 2012 run was better than Kobe in 09. Don't kid yourself.

[RRR3]

Lebron's 2012 run was better than Kobe in 09. Don't kid yourself.
It was, but let's not make this another LBJ vs. Kobe thread.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron's 2012 run was better than Kobe in 09. Don't kid yourself.
The ones already voted, plus 01 Shaq, 03 Duncan, 94 Hakeem, 96, 97, 98 Jordan, 09 Kobe, 11 Dirk are arguably better than '12 James.

[Heavincent]

Lebron's 2012 run was better than Kobe in 09. Don't kid yourself.

Nope.


The ones already voted, plus 01 Shaq, 03 Duncan, 94 Hakeem, 96, 97, 98 Jordan, 09 Kobe, 11 Dirk are arguably better than '12 James.

Yep.

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron put up 30.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 5.6 apg with 50% shooting in his 2012 run

Kobe put up 30.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.5 apg with 45.7% shooting in his 2009 run.

So pretty much Kobe did nothing better than LeBron in his playoff run, and supposedly Kobe's playoff run was better? :facepalm :rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron put up 30.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 5.6 apg with 50% shooting in his 2012 run

Kobe put up 30.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.5 apg with 45.7% shooting in his 2009 run.

So pretty much Kobe did nothing better than LeBron in his playoff run, and supposedly Kobe's playoff run was better? :facepalm :rolleyes:
11.9 more PPG than 2nd option compared to 7.5 ppg for Lebron.
You're going to tell me Lebron's run was better than Dirk's, since Lebron statistically has more too?

[Heavincent]

Lebron put up 30.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 5.6 apg with 50% shooting in his 2012 run

Kobe put up 30.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.5 apg with 45.7% shooting in his 2009 run.

So pretty much Kobe did nothing better than LeBron in his playoff run, and supposedly Kobe's playoff run was better? :facepalm :rolleyes:

If it was as easy as looking at stats, then we wouldn't even these threads. This isn't ****ing baseball.

Lebron's stats were also better than Jordan's stats in the second 3-peat, so I assume you have Lebron's 2012 run over Jordan's 96, 97, and 98 playoff runs?

Shit, I don't even know why I'm replying to you, you'll just go on one of your other 6700 accounts.

[ShaqAttack3234]

1:
Lebron dropped MUCH better overall numbers than 03 Duncan, PER rating at 30.3, #3 highest of all these players playoff runs with numbers of 30-10-6-2-1@50%FG, led his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals and had a better defensive impact aswell (unless you think blocks > dominant versatility/shutting down the best player when it matters whether it is a PG-SG-SF or PF), led everybody in 4th qtr scoring, clutch stats, while having a worse productive supporting cast than 03 Duncan (ill show you downstairs)...

I don't give a **** about PER

Now that we have that established...did you really just say that Lebron's defensive impact was above Duncan's? :facepalm

Duncan was the greatest defensive player of his generation and played the best defense of his career in '03. He regularly anchored the best defensive team in the league, and had his athleticism and mobility in '03. He could guard either power forwards or centers, but more importantly, he could shut down the paint. He'd usually change shots because you wouldn't get him off his feet, and he'd go straight up. Amazingly, with this smart approach, he was still averaging over 3 blocks per game. He was also a big who could defend screen/rolls, and would do a credible job when there were switches.

Lebron's defensive impact didn't approach Duncan's. He had an excellent run defensively, but it doesn't compare to an all-time great defensive big man at his peak.

As far as numbers....Lebron's numbers don't even look better.

Duncan- 25/15/5, 3.3 bpg, 53 FG%, 68 FT%
Lebron- 30/10/6, 1.9 spg, 50 FG%, 52 eFG%, 73 FT%

By the way, you mentioned how many categories Lebron led the Heat in during the playoffs, well, you might want to check who the led the '03 Spurs in points, rebounds, assists and blocks during the run.....

Lebron scored more, and was close to Duncan in efficiency, but Duncan got 5 more rebounds, and Duncan was splitting time at PF/C yet nearly averaged as many assists, which is amazing. It was actually only a 5.6 to 5.3 apg difference despite the rounded numbers. And Duncan easily had more blocks than Lebron had blocks and steals combined.

Duncan was received more defensive attention than Lebron, check out his lowest scoring series vs Phoenix for proof of this, the Suns doubled Duncan constantly, and he made the right passes leading to 3 consecutive 20+ games by Stephen Jackson.

Even when Duncan wasn't scoring a lot, particularly in the Suns series, he was making an impact, such as game 3 when he only scored 11 points, but also had 23 rebounds, 6 assists and 3 blocked shots. He closed out that series with a triple double of 15 points, 20 rebounds and 10 assists.

He closed out the Lakers with 37 points and 16 rebounds on 16/25 shooting in game 6 on the road. He started off the WCF with 40 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists on 14/20 shooting, He followed that up with 32/15/5/3 in game 2, which looked ordinary next to his 34/24/6/6 game 3(on 12/19 shooting). And had his second consecutive 20/20 game in game 4 with 21 points and 20 rebounds in addition to 7 assists and 4 blocks.

He opened up the finals with 32/20 with 6 assists and 7 blocks, and closed out the series with a near quadruple double of 21/20/10 with 8 blocks.

In addition to Duncan drawing more double teams than Lebron and making a much bigger impact defensively, while having one of the dominant rebounding runs we've seen in recent years, his scoring wasn't that far off. Duncan obviously didn't score as much, but as I mentioned, he was facing more double teams, and unlike Lebron, he wasn't leaking out, cherry picking and living on easy transition baskets.

Duncan finished the playoffs with two 30/20 games, four 20/20 games and six twenty rebound games overall in addition to two triple doubles and a 40 point game.


2.
Duncan had a MUCH better Coach in Gregg Popovich and MUCH better depth, his supporting cast was more productive... especially offensively... no way you say?

Duncans supporting cast produced that playoff run: 74.9 PPG, 16.3 APG

Lebrons supporting cast produced that playoff run: 74.5 PPG, 12.3 APG

So much for name value of Wade & Bosh huh? (who was injured and played crippled anyways whom Lebron basically got to the Finals without) when Duncans supporting cast of Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, David Robinson, Malik Rose, Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, S. Claxton outproduced Lebrons ENTIRE supporting cast especially Offensively......

I wasn't even getting into casts, Duncan did have better depth, and a better coach.

But Wade was still a difference maker for Miami. He averaged 26 ppg in the ECSF for Indiana, and he was the primary focus of Boston's defense. That in itself made a big difference. Duncan(and most of these players) didn't have a teammate who was going to be getting more defensive attention than themselves in a series.

And Mario Chalmers stepped up for Lebron, He's a good defensive PG who makes 3s. He finished the playoffs averaging 11/4/4, 44 FG%, 36 3P%(1.4 3PM).

The role players also started to play better when Bosh went down, Miller and Battier started hitting shots in addition to Chalmers so he had some shooters.

Bosh also returned for the finals and averaged 15/9 in the series, and more importantly was a scoring threat. It was pointed out when Bosh returned that Lebron was able to cut to the basket for easy lay ups with Bosh in the high post because the defense was worried about Bosh's shooting. Bosh also gave Miami 19 points on 8/10 shooting and 3/4 3 point shooting in game 7 vs Boston.

Lebron also had a strong defensive cast, and look at the help he got for the one really formidable team he face, which was OKC.

Lebron- 29/10/7, 1.6 spg, 47 FG%
Wade- 23/6/5, 1.4 spg, 1.2 bpg, 44 FG%
Bosh- 15/9, 1.2 bpg, 45 FG%
Battier- 12/3, 61 FG%, 58 3P%(15/26)
Chalmers- 10/2/4, 1.8 spg, 42 FG%, 35 3P%(8/23)
Miller- 6/2, 52 FG%, 64 3P%(7/11) (only played 9 mpg)


3.
Duncan faced much worse competition than Lebron in the Finals by a .59% win team, New Jersey Nets... and had HCA... winning 4-2.... Duncan averaged 24-17-5...

Lebron faced a 71% win team, who were the hottest team in the NBA that absolutely raped everybody in the Western Conference, were the favorites to win it all, but Heat won 4-1 and without HCA... Lebron averaged 29-10-7.....

:oldlol: Lebron's competition was nothing to brag about. He faced a Pacers team that was flawed, inexperienced and just clearly not ready. Hibbert struggled against Joel Anthony, and Paul George was making some of the more embarrassing mistakes I've seen. In fact, Indiana really gave Miami the series with unforced mistakes.

He faced a Boston team that was aging with Pierce really starting to show his age as well as an injured Ray Allen looking old. Avery Bradley was out for the series, so Boston was really carried by KG and Rondo with Brandon Bass giving them some solid offense.

In fact, KG, Rondo and Bass were the only players in Boston's playoff rotation to shoot at least 40%. And Boston lost that series largely due to their terrible rebounding.

Duncan's competition wasn't great with C-Webb going down with an injury allowing the Mavs to beat them and then Dirk going down with an injury in game 3 of the WCF.

But Duncan also beat the 3-time defending champion Lakers with 2 top 5 players in Shaq and Kobe. And Duncan did get a 2-1 lead over a very talented 60 win Mavs team even with Dirk playing.

Both the Spurs and Heat faced pretty unimpressive competition with one formidable opponent in LA and OKC, respectively.

And finally, Duncan clearly had the better finals. You said he averaged 24/17/5, but you left out another 5, for the 5.3 blocks Duncan averaged.

Lebron had a great run, but I knew watching Duncan's run in '03 that it was more dominant than Lebron's.

[SilkkTheShocker]

my bad derailing your thread, Deuce. I probably should have known better to not put Kobe/Lebron in the same sentence. :oldlol:

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron's stats were also better than Jordan's stats in the second 3-peat, so I assume you have Lebron's 2012 run over Jordan's 96, 97, and 98 playoff runs?
.
Yes, there is a reason why LeBron is 2nd in votes in this thread, it is because it was that dominant.



If it was as easy as looking at stats, then we wouldn't even these threads. This isn't ****ing baseball.
Ok, then go explain how Kobe's run was better despite the fact that LeBron has a clear statistical advantage over Kobe at everything in their playoff runs.


11.9 more PPG than 2nd option compared to 7.5 ppg for Lebron.
You're going to tell me Lebron's run was better than Dirk's, since Lebron statistically has more too?
Yes. Scoring isn't everything. LeBron did everything from scoring to passing to rebounding to defense, etc. in his run.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes, there is a reason why LeBron is 2nd in votes in this thread, it is because it was that dominant.



Ok, then go explain how Kobe's run was better despite the fact that LeBron has a clear statistical advantage over Kobe at everything in their playoff runs.


Yes. Scoring isn't everything. LeBron did everything from scoring to passing to rebounding to defense, etc. in his run.
It's not about stats. Dirk's run was better even with less stats, same with 94 Hakeem's because of what they had as teammates.

[StateOfMind12]

It's not about stats. Dirk's run was better even with less stats, same with 94 Hakeem's because of what they had as teammates.
I would vote for '94 Hakeem if this voting was close but since he only has one vote, my vote for him would be useless.

As for Dirk, Dirk doesn't do anything to impact the game besides scoring, it's a fact. He isn't a good rebounder and when he did put up big rebounding numbers in regular seasons and post-seasons, it was because he was playing with poor rebounders like Dampier, etc.

Dirk didn't even play well in the Finals either whereas LeBron played great in every series in his run.

It's not close. You are not going to try to argue Kobe's '09 playoff run over LeBron's '12 playoff run are you?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I would vote for '94 Hakeem if this voting was close but since he only has one vote, my vote for him would be useless.

As for Dirk, Dirk doesn't do anything to impact the game besides scoring, it's a fact. He isn't a good rebounder and when he did put up big rebounding numbers in regular seasons and post-seasons, it was because he was playing with poor rebounders like Dampier, etc.

Dirk didn't even play well in the Finals either whereas LeBron played great in every series in his run.

It's not close. You are not going to try to argue Kobe's '09 playoff run over LeBron's '12 playoff run are you?
It's no point to argue since you are going by stats only.

[StateOfMind12]

It's no point to argue since you are going by stats only.
I'll listen to your argument, I want to hear it though, stats or no stats, I don't care. I want to listen and see what your arguments are as to why Kobe's '09 run was better than LeBron '12 run. I watched both runs and it is close but it is still clear to me LeBron's was better but I still want to hear an argument.

Go present it.

[fpliii]

I'll listen to your argument, I want to hear it though, stats or no stats, I don't care. I want to listen and see what your arguments are as to why Kobe's '09 run was better than LeBron '12 run. I watched both runs and it is close but it is still clear to me LeBron's was better but I still want to hear an argument.

Go present it.


:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'll listen to your argument, I want to hear it though, stats or no stats, I don't care. I want to listen and see what your arguments are as to why Kobe's '09 run was better than LeBron '12 run. I watched both runs and it is close but it is still clear to me LeBron's was better but I still want to hear an argument.

Go present it.
D-Wade made 9 more FG than Lebron in the 4th Quarters and OT
Lebron only made 1 more FG in the 2nd halfs than D-Wade (took 30 more shots)

Kobe and Dirk on the other hand did not have a superstar take over the 4th quarters and 2nd halfs for them.

[StateOfMind12]

D-Wade made 9 more FG than Lebron in the 4th Quarters and OT
Lebron only made 1 more FG in the 2nd halfs than D-Wade
I would actually like to know if there is any truth to this but with that being said how many points did Wade score more than LeBron?

One made 2 point shot isn't worth any less than 2 made free throws which I remember LeBron making a ton of in the clutch of the 2012 post-season.

So I'm curious to know what there total 4th/OT points/stats actually were.



Kobe and Dirk on the other hand did not have a superstar take over the 4th quarters and 2nd halfs for them.
They had clutch players making clutch shots in the 4th which is worth just as much.

LeBron also didn't have anybody to control the boards and anchor the paint defensively like Kobe and Dirk had. Dirk had Chandler, Kobe had Gasol and Bynum. LeBron was the one controlling the boards on his team and playing great defense himself. Dirk wasn't playing great defense because he isn't a good defender. Kobe played pretty good defense in the '09 run but it wasn't better than LeBron's defense in '12.

I hope this 4th quarter/clutch isn't your only argument because if so, there is still the first 36-42 minutes of the game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I would actually like to know if there is any truth to this but with that being said how many points did Wade score more than LeBron?

One made 2 point shot isn't worth any less than 2 made free throws which I remember LeBron making a ton of in the clutch of the 2012 post-season.

So I'm curious to know what there total 4th/OT points/stats actually were.


They had clutch players making clutch shots in the 4th which is worth just as much.

LeBron also didn't have anybody to control the boards and anchor the paint defensively like Kobe and Dirk had. Dirk had Chandler, Kobe had Gasol and Bynum. LeBron was the one controlling the boards on his team and playing great defense.

I hope this 4th quarter/clutch isn't your only argument because if so, there is still the first 36-42 minutes of the game.
Here's the Link http://bkref.com/tiny/z2QEm

"They had clutch players making clutch shots in the 4th which is worth just as much. "

making a big shot here and there is not as valuable as having a guy who makes MORE SHOTS THAN YOU in the 4th quarters and OT

And Also to mention Dirk's run, I've never seen anybody have a more clutch playoff run than he did last year.

[fpliii]

Here's the Link http://bkref.com/tiny/z2QEm

"They had clutch players making clutch shots in the 4th which is worth just as much. "

making a big shot here and there is not as valuable as having a guy who makes MORE SHOTS THAN YOU in the 4th quarters and OT

DWade doing work :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[StateOfMind12]

Here's the Link http://bkref.com/tiny/z2QEm

"They had clutch players making clutch shots in the 4th which is worth just as much. "

making a big shot here and there is not as valuable as having a guy who makes MORE SHOTS THAN YOU in the 4th quarters and OT

And Also to mention Dirk's run, I've never seen anybody have a more clutch playoff run than he did last year.
Then lets compare it to Kobe in 2009

Kobe - 52/132 (39.4%) in the 4th/OT of the 2009 playoffs
LeBron - 51/118 (43.2%) in the 4th/OT of the 2012 playoffs

It seems like LeBron has the advantage here anyways and the link/stat you provided does not account for FTs which is a way to score points. I would take the stat a little bit more seriously if it did though but it doesn't cause I can almost guarantee you that LeBron's clutch numbers were more than likely better than Wade's if it did.

Again, is this your only argument as to why Kobe's '09 playoff run was better? If so, it is weak because Kobe barely has an edge here while LeBron has a significant edge over Kobe in everything.

It is funny though because you were complaining about how I was using too much stats yet you are using a stat to back up why Kobe's run was better. :oldlol:

[I LUV KOBE]

Kobe 2009

[Deuce Bigalow]

Then lets compare it to Kobe in 2009

Kobe - 52/132 (39.4%) in the 4th/OT of the 2009 playoffs
LeBron - 51/118 (43.2%) in the 4th/OT of the 2012 playoffs

It seems like LeBron has the advantage here anyways and the link/stat you provided does not account for FTs which is a way to score points. I would take the stat a little bit more seriously if it did though but it doesn't cause I can almost guarantee you that LeBron's clutch numbers were more than likely better than Wade's if it did.

Again, is this your only argument as to why Kobe's '09 playoff run was better? If so, it is weak because Kobe barely has an edge here while LeBron has a significant edge over Kobe in everything.

It is funny though because you were complaining about how I was using too much stats yet you are using a stat to back up why Kobe's run was better. :oldlol:
Kobe led his team in in the 4th quarters, Lebron did not.
Kobe didn't have a superstar taking over 2nd halfs an 4th quarters like Lebron did

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe led his team in in the 4th quarters, Lebron did not.
Kobe didn't have a superstar taking over 2nd halfs an 4th quarters like Lebron did
If you watched any of the 2012 playoff games, you would see that Wade never took over any game in any series except for the Pacers series. Another problem with this stat is that it does not take into account when the situation was. Anyone can easily just run up the score and score in pointless and useless possessions when the game is already over and both teams know it.

Again, is this your only argument? If so, you are probably better off sticking to something like Kobe has 5 rings and LeBron has 1 or something because the argument is horrible.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron's stats were also better than Jordan's stats in the second 3-peat, so I assume you have Lebron's 2012 run over Jordan's 96, 97, and 98 playoff runs?

Yes, there is a reason why LeBron is 2nd in votes in this thread, it is because it was that dominant.
Jordan was averaging double digits more than his 2nd best player and for sure I know he led his team in the 4th quarters

[Deuce Bigalow]

If you watched any of the 2012 playoff games, you would see that Wade never took over any game in any series except for the Pacers series. Another problem with this stat is that it does not take into account when the situation was. Anyone can easily just run up the score and score in pointless and useless possessions when the game is already over and both teams know it.

Again, is this your only argument? If so, you are probably better off sticking to something like Kobe has 5 rings and LeBron has 1 or something because the argument is horrible.
I watched every heat game in the playoffs. Wade took over the 2nd halfs and 4th quarters of many games.
He was horrible in the 1st halfs and great in the 2nd, as good as Lebron many times.

[scandisk_]

MY GAWD! No love for 03 Timmy D?

But I'm torn between 03 Duncan and 01 Shaq, can't go wrong with either runs.

[ripthekik]

The ones already voted, plus 01 Shaq, 03 Duncan, 94 Hakeem, 96, 97, 98 Jordan, 09 Kobe, 11 Dirk are arguably better than '12 James.
didn't read all the lebron fans bullcrap. this is it.

[ShaqAttack3234]

11.9 more PPG than 2nd option compared to 7.5 ppg for Lebron.
You're going to tell me Lebron's run was better than Dirk's, since Lebron statistically has more too?

I made the initial thread about scoring differences between 1st and 2nd options, but I don't think that's a strong case for '09 Kobe over '12 Lebron because Pau was better in the '09 playoffs than Wade was in the '12 playoffs, imo. And Odom had a great run and gave the Lakers more during the whole playoffs than Bosh gave Miami, plus Ariza was also shooting unusually well just like Odom.

But I do think '09 Kobe and '12 Lebron are debatable. I do have Lebron's '12 run over Dirk's run, Dirk's scoring, and particularly clutch play were more impressive, but Lebron is a more dominant player and can impact the game in far more ways. Lebron's defense was excellent in the playoffs, and his rebounding was very impressive for a small forward. He's also the best passing non-PG since Bird.

I have both '09 Kobe and '12 Lebron over Dirk.


It's not about stats. Dirk's run was better even with less stats, same with 94 Hakeem's because of what they had as teammates.

I don't agree with a run being better simply because of how people judge their teammates on paper. Because often times a lot of those players step up at certain points which plays a big role in their team winning. And for some reason, depth often gets completely overlooked.

Hakeem's run was better, imo simply because his level of play was higher. And actually, his stats even look at least as good(29/11 with 4.3 apg, 4 bpg, 1.7 spg, 52 FG%/80 FT%).

Hakeem's team doesn't stand out, but they had quite a few quality players. I'd say that team revolved around Hakeem as far as their system and how their offense and defense succeeded more than any other championship team I can think of. But they did surround him quite a few quality players, and they were a pretty deep team.

Obviously, you and everyone else can judge playoff runs and players however you want, just felt like saying that I think it's pretty flawed.