Jordan 69 point game, FULL game HD

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CSn32g7e2k&feature=plcp

[Rake2204]

Wow thanks for that link. That user actually seems pretty legit, with a litany of HD uploads day-by-day.

[oolalaa]

Michael Jordan in HD!!!

Words cannot describe the awesomeness of this :bowdown:

[9erempiree]

Michael Jordan in HD!!!

Words cannot describe the awesomeness of this :bowdown:

Kobe in HD.

[chips93]

Wow thanks for that link. That user actually seems pretty legit, with a litany of HD uploads day-by-day.

i just hope it lasts . . .

[mans1ay3r]

Good stuff! :cheers:

[che guevara]

This isn't HD, it's just upscaled. You're getting no more detail than you would with 480p.

[Rake2204]

i just hope it lasts . . .
Yeah unfortunately that's always my thought too. I was worried by his join date. I just wish an official NBA outlet would make this happen.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Inb4 it ain't 81 replies

[SilkkTheShocker]

Inb4 it ain't 81 replies


^^^ most insecure poster on ISH

[oolalaa]

This isn't HD, it's just upscaled. You're getting no more detail than you would with 480p.

Don't ruin it for me!! :rant :cry:

[Poetry]

Michael Jordan in HD!!!

Words cannot describe the awesomeness of this :bowdown:


This isn't HD, it's just upscaled. You're getting no more detail than you would with 480p.

Michael Jordan in 480p.

Words cannot describe the awesomeness of this :bowdown:

[Linspired]

watching it right now. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[jstern]

A lot of work putting all those full games up on YouTube, with the uncertainty of not knowing if the NBA might have YouTube close his channel, either tomorrow or in 2 years.

[Rake2204]

A lot of work putting all those full games up on YouTube, with the uncertainty of not knowing if the NBA might have YouTube close his channel, either tomorrow or in 2 years.
Is there a rhyme or reason with which the NBA decides to close channels? People hosting full games? Are they the first to go? People trying to earn money from their uploads?

[Meticode]

I'm going to watch this just to see the Cavaliers.

Want-to-buy more NBA clips that are this high quality and this old. And holy crap at Doug Collins mullet-looking hair.

[chips93]

Yeah unfortunately that's always my thought too. I was worried by his join date. I just wish an official NBA outlet would make this happen.

it really sucks

i totally understand why big companies, like tv studios will have channels taken down, because its taking viewership away, but in watching old nba games, there isnt really an alternative. it would be different if the nba was selling old games or something, but there is no other way to watch these old games than on youtube/downloading illegally

[Linspired]

69>81

[Meticode]

This isn't HD, it's just upscaled. You're getting no more detail than you would with 480p.
While this is technically true, it's still difficult to find good quality clips of games from 20+ years ago that are this clear. In any case it's great to watch.

[Meticode]

I watched the first quarter. It's really weird watching Mark Price. Steve Nash reminds me of Mark Price 2.0, except Nash a more productive longer career obviously.

[jstern]

Is there a rhyme or reason with which the NBA decides to close channels? People hosting full games? Are they the first to go? People trying to earn money from their uploads?

It could be any number or reason, probably more to do to how the persons in charge of searching for copyrighted material feel on that particular moment. I have a bunch of NBA videos on my channel and one day they NBA decided to randomly take one of my videos off. It was an altercation between Rodman & Ewing, so I thought maybe they were protecting the image of the game, but then there are much worse videos out there.

They show old games on NBATV, so that might be a reason why they might want to take a game off full games.

[Round Mound]

Lets not foreget he grabbed 18 rebounds in that same game. Insane for a Wing Player :bowdown:

[Linspired]

Jordan had some brilliant passes too. love that pass 1:04:50 mark

[I LUV KOBE]

Kobe 81 is much much better..

[Linspired]

nasty screen by ehlo at 1:07

ehlo was a decent player

[Linspired]

Kobe 81 is much much better..

lol hell no

[I LUV KOBE]

lol hell no
81>69 simple logic..

[Linspired]

Jordan is so damn smart. he exploits the mismatch like no other.

[Linspired]

81>69 simple logic..

69/18/6/4/1 against a better team > 81 on sleepwalking raptors.

jordan did more than scoring. he did everything. and he scored 69pts so effortlessly. could've easily scored 80 if jordan really decided that scoring is the only option.

[jstern]

nasty screen by ehlo at 1:07

ehlo was a decent player

I liked that they called the foul on Jordan.


69/18/6/4/1 against a better team > 81 on sleepwalking raptors.

jordan did more than scoring. he did everything. and he scored 69pts so effortlessly. could've easily scored 80 if jordan really decided that scoring is the only option.

You're arguing with somebody who wasn't even 9 or 10 when Kobe scored the 81. Unless he's just a troll.

[eliteballer]

The Raptors D was AT LEAST as good as this game, at a slower pace. Kobe scored 50+ on the 2nd half when he actually turned it up. It was just a more dominant game, and it wasn't OT.

[jstern]

Since I'm watching the game, it sort of feels like a game thread. I like at 1:11:50 how Jordan calls Pippen over so that then he could post up Price.


The Raptors D was AT LEAST as good as this game, at a slower pace. Kobe scored 50+ on the 2nd half when he actually turned it up. It was just a more dominant game, and it wasn't OT.

I haven't watched the game since after it happened, but I remember that the Toronto players were not even contesting Kobe's shots. They were so not in the game.

[I LUV KOBE]

69/18/6/4/1 against a better team > 81 on sleepwalking raptors.

jordan did more than scoring. he did everything. and he scored 69pts so effortlessly. could've easily scored 80 if jordan really decided that scoring is the only option.
lol Kobe competition is much better, if raptors played in that era they will easily be a contender.. Teams in this era could easily be a contender in the 80's. If Jordan could easily scored 80 pts why he need overtime just to scored 69pts.. If Kobe played an extra 5 mins in OT he can easily scored 100 or more.. Kobe doesnt need OT to scored 81pts..

[Linspired]

and the big difference is this game had a playoff like intensity in the 4th. lenny was ejected, fans were complaining about fouls not getting called and etc. Cavs wanted this game badly. this wasn't some blow out in the middle or january.

[eliteballer]

The Raptors were up by double digits in the first half which is the reason Kobe turned it up.................

[Vienceslav]

Why you gotta bring that 81 point game up again?:roll:
Even worse it wasn

[Linspired]

lol Kobe competition is much better, if raptors played in that era they will easily be a contender.. Teams in this era could easily be a contender in the 80's. If Jordan could easily scored 80 pts why he need overtime just to scored 69pts.. If Kobe played an extra 5 mins in OT he can easily scored 100 or more.. Kobe doesnt need OT to scored 81pts..


:roll: :roll:

kobe shot 46 times!!!! and jordan doesn't jack up 3's. do the math.

and ask yourself why kobe can't score 50pts in the playoffs. you will be enlightened.

[I LUV KOBE]

:roll: :roll:

kobe shot 46 times!!!! and jordan doesn't jack up 3's. do the math.

and ask yourself why kobe can't score 50pts in the playoffs. you will be enlightened.
cause Kobe is not selfish in the playoffs.. He always involve everyone.. See what happen in 2006 when he scored 50 but they still lost cause he play selfish that time..

[Linspired]

cause Kobe is not selfish in the playoffs.. He always involve everyone.. See what happen in 2006 when he scored 50 but they still lost cause he play selfish that time..

:biggums:

[Poetry]

lol Kobe competition is much better, if raptors played in that era they will easily be a contender.

:facepalm

[Linspired]

jordan's 50pt+ game at MSG > meaningless 81pts in the middle of january


kobe's 81pt is as impressive as David Robinson's 71/14/5 game to get the scoring title.

[eliteballer]

ok, Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters vs Mavs, 56 in 3 vs Grizzlies, 42 at the half vs Jordans Wizards>>>Jordan's games:oldlol:

[Linspired]

ok, Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters vs Mavs, 56 in 3 vs Grizzlies, 42 at the half vs Jordans Wizards>>>Jordan's games:oldlol:


jordan's 63 against celtics in a PLAYOFF games > kobe's entire career accomplishment combined

:roll: :roll:

[I LUV KOBE]

jordan's 50pt+ game at MSG > meaningless 81pts in the middle of january


kobe's 81pt is as impressive as David Robinson's 71/14/5 game to get the scoring title.
I dont care.. 81 is still a lot better than 69,50,71 playoffs or not..

[Linspired]

ugliest jumpshot

1. shawn marion
2. bill cartwright

[I LUV KOBE]

ok, Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters vs Mavs, 56 in 3 vs Grizzlies, 42 at the half vs Jordans Wizards>>>Jordan's games:oldlol:
^this, Kobe dropped 55 points in Jordan ass and send him to retirement.. The most embarrassing Jordan ever had in a game..

[Linspired]

I dont care.. 81 is still a lot better than 69,50,71 playoffs or not..

kobe has a psychological choke hold on you
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0SWl0hRdg4A/S-Ar5axH07I/AAAAAAAAQAg/j3GYa2gCuBg/s400/kobe500.jpg

be free my friend

[I LUV KOBE]

kobe has a psychological choke hold on you
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0SWl0hRdg4A/S-Ar5axH07I/AAAAAAAAQAg/j3GYa2gCuBg/s400/kobe500.jpg

be free my friend
81 > any highest scoring of Jordan.. u mad?

[Linspired]

^this, Kobe dropped 55 points in Jordan ass and send him to retirement.. The most embarrassing Jordan ever had in a game..


real jordan retired in 98. :roll:

and 39 year old jordan with zero lift shot .445% that year. not bad for a grandpa

[Poetry]

I dont care.. 81 is still a lot better than 69,50,71 playoffs or not..

Suddenly i'm reminded of Scott Skiles and his 30 assist game.

Scott Skiles' 30 assist (Regular Season vs the 20-62 Denver Nuggets) > John Stockton's 24 assist (Playoffs vs the 62-20 LA Lakers) ???

[Linspired]

81 > any highest scoring of Jordan.. u mad?

bron's 45/15/5 against celtics in the playoffs > 81pts against raptors

:roll:

[Linspired]

jordan with the clutch rebound at the end to end the game. THE GOAT.

[I LUV KOBE]

real jordan retired in 98. :roll:

and 39 year old jordan with zero lift shot .445% that year. not bad for a grandpa
Jordan is Jordan whatever age he is.. There's no such thing as real Jordan. Do you mean the Wizard Jordan is fake? :wtf:

[Velocirap31]

I didn't hear the commentators mention it again, but at one point in the game Jordan had 45 points on 17/23 shooting. Watched the whole game, that was impressive. Pippen had a terrible game to.

[Rake2204]

It could be any number or reason, probably more to do to how the persons in charge of searching for copyrighted material feel on that particular moment. I have a bunch of NBA videos on my channel and one day they NBA decided to randomly take one of my videos off. It was an altercation between Rodman & Ewing, so I thought maybe they were protecting the image of the game, but then there are much worse videos out there.

They show old games on NBATV, so that might be a reason why they might want to take a game off full games.
Thanks for the feedback. My only interest is sharing my clips with the public for the sake of information. I'd just be bummed to see my work abruptly shut down when I could have prevented it somehow. That's why I've avoided full games thus far.

[Dragonyeuw]

Suddenly i'm reminded of Scott Skiles and his 30 assist game.

Scott Skiles' 30 assist (Regular Season vs the 20-62 Denver Nuggets) > John Stockton's 24 assist (Playoffs vs the 62-20 LA Lakers) ???

'Perspective' and 'context' are two things sadly lacking in some posters.

[juju151111]

Goat

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan had some brilliant passes too. love that pass 1:04:50 mark

Sick pass, yeah. Not surprised to see Cartwright blow a dunk though - MJ would have averaged like an extra assist for his career if he played with competent finishers at center. Cartwright and later Longley were butterfingers and/or went up crazy weak.

[CavaliersFTW]

Former ABA legend Jackie Moon is reffing this game @ 2:42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CSn32g7e2k&t=2m42s

http://www.jackiemoon.com/jackie-moon.jpg

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/e/1e2f7_ORIG-bowdown_gif.gif

[jstern]

Thanks for the feedback. My only interest is sharing my clips with the public for the sake of information. I'd just be bummed to see my work abruptly shut down when I could have prevented it somehow. That's why I've avoided full games thus far.

In some videos in the description sometimes up loaders put a warning saying that they are not trying to infringe on any copyright, etc. So maybe that can help against any NBA a-hole who might decided to let the video be if he feels you have good intentions.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I didn't hear the commentators mention it again, but at one point in the game Jordan had 45 points on 17/23 shooting. Watched the whole game, that was impressive. Pippen had a terrible game to.

Jordan once had a 52 point game on 24-28 FG and started that game 21-23 FG up to about the 5:00 mark of the 4th before going 3-6 FG the rest of the way. Amazing.

[Rake2204]

In some videos in the description sometimes up loaders put a warning saying that they are not trying to infringe on any copyright, etc. So maybe that can help against any NBA a-hole who might decided to let the video be if he feels you have good intentions.
Yeah I've often wondered if that had any effect.

[Poetry]

The Raptors D was AT LEAST as good as this game, at a slower pace.

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).


Kobe scored 50+ on the 2nd half when he actually turned it up. It was just a more dominant game, and it wasn't OT.

At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.

[Dragonyeuw]

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).



At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/5/15fc7_ORIG-the_rock_clap_clap_gif.gif

[Da_Realist]

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).



At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.

:applause:

[pauk]

:bowdown:

[pauk]

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).



At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.


http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/victory/grand/victory-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-1344.gif

[Cowboy Thunder]

You Kobe tards are dumber than dirt.

Bout as sharp as bowling ball.


Glad the Thunder will slay you every year in the playoffs. :lol

[eliteballer]

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when
Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).



At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.

This is HILARIOUS. You're being completely disingenuous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpOpgmszQik

Look how Jordan walks into the lane at 40 seconds. Ehlo's outright refusal to fight through screens on tons of Jordan jumpers. Guys weren't leaving their feet in Kobe's game?? LOOK AT JORDANS GAME!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXZY4eVLlo

This is MUCH BETTER D. Kobe was hitting contested 3's, getting cut off from getting to the basket. DOUBLE TEAMED.

Jordan wasn't even getting doubleteamed!!!


Jordan once had a 52 point game on 24-28 FG and started that game 21-23 FG up to about the 5:00 mark of the 4th before going 3-6 FG the rest of the way. Amazing.

Yeah against some of the most horrific defense you'll ever see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7oHlAJ7Bi0

[Rake2204]

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).



At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.
http://raisesbm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/crying-fist-pump-gif-i4.gif

[DatAsh]

I'm almost sure it wasn't. Just got done watching Kobe's 81 again. The D is terrible. Bosh in particular makes me want to pull my hair out during this game. His hands go up (and sometimes they're stuck at his side) but that's about it. Kobe goes around him like he's a lamppost. At one point early on, Kobe ducks under his defender and comes at Bosh. Bosh steps back, instead of contesting the shot, he shrinks back and gets into his rebounding position, obviously thinking ahead without playing in the moment. For whatever reason, he thinks Kobe's going to miss a 2 foot lay-in/leaning shot attempt :facepalm and waits for the rebound that never comes.

Instead of punishing him at the basket with contact, he refuses to leave his feet or even present an obstacle.

At other times, everyone else stands around, there's no resistance when Kobe gets to the basket, the Raptors spacing is terrible. Even when Kobe is the focal point, 5 Raptors stare at him from 3-4 feet away without doing anything (no one contests the shot, it's hilarious), like they're not sure who's supposed to come over to help and Kobe steps to the side or hops into huge open gaps and scores easily.

(It's also a sign of the times, with the difference in defensive rules, the Raptors were afraid to be overly aggressive with Kobe, whereas as the Cavs present MJ with resistance whenever possible).



At around the 6:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter, the Raptors realize something special is happening and they start doubling at times and contesting shots. But by this point Kobe is super aggressive, his confidence is super high and he starts hitting contested shots and playing mind games (flailing on a few shots and kicking his feet, like Reggie Miller). Raptors look like they want to forfeit the game. With the exception of the freethrows, this is the most impressive sequence of the game. He knows they're going to start playing with more defensive aggression, but he's looking for a record.

I'll have to watch the MJ game again to pick out the nuiances of the Cavs D, but off the top of my head, you'll see MJ is being grabbed on his way to the basket (typical 80's aggressive resistance), guys jump "into" him to punish the attempts (unlike some of the Raptor bigs who don't even leave their feet on block attempts), MJ curls off of screens and hits contested shots, he's doubled at the 3 point line, sent to the ground below the basket before he can get easy shots off.

During Kobe's 81, he takes advantage of 3-4 blown defensive assignments and hits open shots. There's maybe 1 unsightly defensive assignment missed during the MJ game.

Both MJ and Kobe are looking to attack, but only the Cavaliers are looking to play the proper defense during the whole game. The Raptors fall asleep for 3 1/2 quarters.

There's a huge disparity in double teams that occur throughout the games too. The Cavs double MJ often and not only when he drives to the basket, they come out to help, chasing him outside and just inside the three point line, MJ shakes them with smooth crosses and yo-yo's the defense to get his teammates open shots.

Again, the Raptors, just look like they don't know what to do. Even when you see opportunites for double teams, they give Kobe room and the second defender never comes out to help.

MJ's easiest shots come in the transition while Kobe's easiest shots happen during a variety of situations, the Raptors let him blow to the basket uncontested, they don't close in to block shots, they don't close gaps between defenders, they don't even put their arms up.

Both have an open 3 in their respective game. MJ's comes off of a rebound. Kobe hits a pull up three in transition. This in particular is telling of their games. MJ hits his in the flow of the game. Kobe maybe forces it, but to his credit, he had around 5 feet of space.

One thing you'll notice, when MJ gets to the paint, he's surrounded by arms, with maybe 1-2 feet of breathing room. Kobe gets to the paint and he has 2-3 feet of space and hardly anyone puts a hand up or even sticks their arm out to attempt a steal, a chest-level block or a disruption.

Kobe hits some nice 3's, but MJ's jumpers are otherwordly in his 69 point game, he hangs in the air against 2 defenders, all his shots are respected and almost all of them are contested.

You don't see the same kind of respect early in the Lakers/Raptors game. Instead of seeing Rose come out to help double team Kobe, you see him head to the basket, anticipating a miss. And that was their mistake. They expected him to miss and he didn't. Kobe's hitting fade away jumpers and his opponent forgets to leave his feet to contest the shot. It's just a lax defensive effort by the Raptors all around.

I keep replaying some of these sequences and Bosh absolutely makes me sick during this game.

Anyway, the Raptors' defense wasn't at the same level as the Cavs' Defense. The Raptors just didn't show up for Kobe's 81 point game defensively.

Excellent Post, and I agree with every word. You'd have to be pretty biased to watch those two games and think Kobe faced even close to the same defense(let alone better).

That being said, Wilt's 100 > all

[che guevara]

While this is technically true, it's still difficult to find good quality clips of games from 20+ years ago that are this clear. In any case it's great to watch.
No doubt, this is the best quality I've ever seen from a Jordan game. Just trying to be a buzzkill.

[OldSchoolBBall]

This is HILARIOUS. You're being completely disingenuous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpOpgmszQik

Look how Jordan walks into the lane at 40 seconds.

I like how Jordan getting by 4-5 defenders with a super quick hesitation dribble and explosion into the smooth lefty layup is him "walking into the lane." Dude would get the same exact look today on that same move. Kobe has never been that explosive, which is why he doesn't get into the lane like that.

[eliteballer]

I like how Jordan getting by 4-5 defenders with a super quick hesitation dribble and explosion into the smooth lefty layup is him "walking into the lane." Dude would get the same exact look today on that same move. Kobe has never been that explosive, which is why he doesn't get into the lane like that.

LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT1VNbKHCNs&t=1m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-VOk3kSpI&t=0m26s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2NR49VaKk&feature=related&t=7m28s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHcavL9I3cQ&feature=related&t=5m37s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8PbS-a7BHk&t=1m33s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKb72yyyeI&t=5m20s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnuTM0kpcek&t=0m3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtn5qhR9cvU&feature=related&t=0m4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfoHzbqJxbw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wprY9UVpMc&t=3m35s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv52J8anZVE&t=0m19s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29FOZesG1yg&feature=related&t=2m47s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKb72yyyeI&t=8m3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfa0x2hisrc&feature=channel_video_title&t=8m16s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2NR49VaKk&feature=related&t=11m40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVKSl_7aW6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoyPZDCzrXM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fW3Ilc8Y_o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAD8NEDxrxQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfa0x2hisrc&feature=channel_video_title&t=9m53s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsNXdP4Kgro&t=1m30s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XyA06_8cO8&t=4m44s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKb72yyyeI&t=8m45s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN1NzISPi0M&t=5m16s

[Dragonyeuw]

This is HILARIOUS. You're being completely disingenuous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpOpgmszQik

Look how Jordan walks into the lane at 40 seconds. Ehlo's outright refusal to fight through screens on tons of Jordan jumpers. Guys weren't leaving their feet in Kobe's game?? LOOK AT JORDANS GAME!!



If it looks like no defense was present at times, a big reason was that he was exceptional at creating space. You could never relax on defense playing Jordan because he was as much a threat off the ball, as he was with the ball in his hands. With Jordan you had to account for him for 48 minutes, which puts tons of pressure on the defense. It's often been said that playing Jordan was as much a mental test as a physical one.

[Rake2204]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/victory/grand/victory-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-1344.gif
Excellent usage of gif.

[AlphaWolf24]

wow!..after watching that game!......



just reinforces the fact that Kobe Bryant is a mutch more asthetically pleasing scorere then MJ ever was...

Kobe's 81 point game...or even his 62 point game in 3qrts is so much better then anything MJ ever did...

Jordan did great in the watered down 90's..but come on..saying any of MJ's games were better then Kobe's??


get real kids

[Linspired]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-78rD7zMnv5E/T7erpdgVuNI/AAAAAAAAAzE/Z8Mu7W99zhQ/s1600/Kobe-Bryant-2.jpg

[Asukal]

wow!..after watching that game!......



just reinforces the fact that Kobe Bryant is a mutch more asthetically pleasing scorere then MJ ever was...

Kobe's 81 point game...or even his 62 point game in 3qrts is so much better then anything MJ ever did...

Jordan did great in the watered down 90's..but come on..saying any of MJ's games were better then Kobe's??


get real kids

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Give this man retard of the year award!

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Horatio33]

Kobe was better than Jordan for ONE game.

[Poetry]

Excellent Post, and I agree with every word. You'd have to be pretty biased to watch those two games and think Kobe faced even close to the same defense(let alone better).

When i get some time, what i might do is breakdown all the makes for both MJ and Kobe for these games with screenshots, maybe using 4-5 screenshots for each make. It's interesting to see what's happening defensively when you freeze frame the games.

[Da KO King]

Poetry is being a bit misleading. There was a lot of bad defense from that Cavs team. Hell that was one of the knocks on their team back then. Quality offense, shaky defense.

[jstern]

Poetry is being a bit misleading. There was a lot of bad defense from that Cavs team. Hell that was one of the knocks on their team back then. Quality offense, shaky defense.

He's not being misleading at all. He's not saying that the Cavs were playing GOAT defense, but that it was a much higher level than the Raptor's in that game. Don't you agree that it was? Not because the Cavs were such a great defensive team, but because the Raptors weren't even trying.

[chips93]

2005-06 Toronto Raptors, defensive points per 100 possessions: 112.7
1989-90 Cleveland Cavs, defensive points per 100 possessions: 107.2

so the cavs were the better defensive team, although comparing across eras is obviously tricky

[Da_Realist]

Poetry's making a comparison between the Cavs defense the night MJ went for 69 and the Raptors defense the night Kobe went for 81. Season averages and reputation are irrelevant.

[Da KO King]

He's not being misleading at all. He's not saying that the Cavs were playing GOAT defense, but that it was a much higher level than the Raptor's in that game. Don't you agree that it was? Not because the Cavs were such a great defensive team, but because the Raptors weren't even trying.
Never said he said it was a great defense. I say its misleading because I believe Poetry may be a Michael Jordan sycophant who simply wants to make MJ's accomplishments outshine those of everyone else.

The example that he listed of Chris Bosh was a reach. Bosh had absolutely no shot at making the play. If he ran over out of control he would have been called for a foul along with giving up the basket.

His mention of double teams was also misleading. The Raptors were playing with a strategy of double Kobe if he attacked the middle of the floor off the bounce; in situations where Kobe attacked baseline the bigs were supposed to rotate.

No question the Raptors sucked defensively. Had a bad strategy , had bad individual defenders, and some questionable efforts.

The disingenuity is not acknowledging that Cavs defense stunk just as bad against Jordan. Cavs had no one making an effort to get back in transition defense, had nonexistent screen hedging of Cavalier bigs, and blown/miscommunication on defensive help rotations.

Both the Cavs in 1990 and the Raptors in 2006 played terrible games defensively. Both teams played so poorly that I wouldn't be shocked if switch the point totals of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant would be exactly the same.

[Replay32]

Never said he said it was a great defense. I say its misleading because I believe Poetry may be a Michael Jordan sycophant who simply wants to make MJ's accomplishments outshine those of everyone else.

The example that he listed of Chris Bosh was a reach. Bosh had absolutely no shot at making the play. If he ran over out of control he would have been called for a foul along with giving up the basket.

His mention of double teams was also misleading. The Raptors were playing with a strategy of double Kobe if he attacked the middle of the floor off the bounce; in situations where Kobe attacked baseline the bigs were supposed to rotate.

No question the Raptors sucked defensively. Had a bad strategy , had bad individual defenders, and some questionable efforts.

The disingenuity is not acknowledging that Cavs defense stunk just as bad against Jordan. Cavs had no one making an effort to get back in transition defense, had nonexistent screen hedging of Cavalier bigs, and blown/miscommunication on defensive help rotations.

Both the Cavs in 1990 and the Raptors in 2006 played terrible games defensively. Both teams played so poorly that I wouldn't be shocked if switch the point totals of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant would be exactly the same.

Jalen Rose has commented on this game. He disagrees with this and he played in the game. That Raptors team was a mess and their defense in that game was horrible.

[Da KO King]

Jalen Rose has commented on this game. He disagrees with this and he played in the game. That Raptors team was a mess and their defense in that game was horrible.
Poor wording on my part. The Raptors were not doubling all game long. It appeared to be a strategy change up thrown in by Sam Mitchell.

SIDE NOTE: Considering his poor effort, and the number of assignments he blew on both offense and defense I'd think Jalen Rose shut his face and pretend that game never happened.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The disingenuity is not acknowledging that Cavs defense stunk just as bad against Jordan. Cavs had no one making an effort to get back in transition defense.

I think MJ had one basket in transition, and it was off a steal. So this particular point is irrelevant.

[Da KO King]

I think MJ had one basket in transition, and it was off a steal. So this particular point is irrelevant.
Pointing to an entire team continually not making an effort to get back on defense is irrelevant when discussing how poor a defensive showing said team had????

Not sure which one of these gets way I'm feeling across the best so I'm posting all three...
:facepalm :biggums: :coleman: