09 Kobe vs 12 Bron, playoff run POLL

[RazorBaLade]

Post your thoughts, argue, etc, but include a vote. Kobe or Lebron.

Here's the information you need:

Kobe: 30 5 6 in 41MPG. 46% fg, 56% TS.
Sidekick: 18 11 3 in 41MPG. 58% fg, 62% TS.

Lebron: 30 10 6 in 43MPG. 50% fg, 58% TS.
Sidekick: 23 5 4 in 39MPG. 46% fg, 53% TS.

[fpliii]

Kobe

[scandisk_]

Post your thoughts, argue, etc, but include a vote. Kobe or Lebron.

Here's the information you need:

Kobe: 30 5 6 in 41MPG. 46% fg, 56% TS.
Sidekick: 18 11 3 in 41MPG. 58% fg, 62% TS.

Lebron: 30 10 6 in 43MPG. 50% fg, 58% TS.
Sidekick: 23 5 4 in 39MPG. 46% fg, 53% TS.


MAMBA :bowdown:

LBJ might had more impact but Mamba's rum was better for me.

[ripthekik]

Kobe.


This is Lebron's so called "sidekick"

Wade vs Pacers
Game 4: 13-23 FG, 9 reb, 6 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, 30 points
Game 5: 10-17 FG, 3 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 28 points
Game 6: 17-25 FG, 10 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 41 points

Dude can still run a team of his own, even with a bad knee.

[BallsOut]

Post the level of competition Lebron faced as well. Hell, let me post it for you:

Dumb Knicks
Pacers who would be a 7th seed in the West
Old ass hobbled Celtics team

My vote is Kobe btw. I think Dirk's 2010-11 run was better than Lebron's as well if you factor everything into play. 10 years from now stat geeks like like ShaqAttack will spawn BS in forum threads claiming Lebron's run was better because of his inflated stats against weak competition.

[Wavy Crockett]

:kobe:

[Ketchup]

What do there sidekicks have to do with how well they played?

If LBJ had more impact scandisk, how the hell was Kobe's better than? People don't even understand their own arguments.

I think it's Lebron anyway, and not particularly close. Better stats, more memorable leading his team back every time. Had a lot of big games, especially when needed. Not to mention outplayed a direct rival who would have been called better by everyone had he not won. More pressure, more memorable, and he's simply a better player than Bryant was in 09, or ever for that matter.

[Lordragoonx1x]

Lebron

He saved the heat season in game 6 and 7 in the ecf. Also pretty carried the team when bosh went down in the esf and part of the ecf. The last reason heat were down in every series accept the first round and lebron was instrumental in over coming those humps.

[PickernRoller]

Why the need to prove anything? Outside of a few a dumbnuts in this forum, no one gives a shit whose run was better.

[RazorBaLade]

What do there sidekicks have to do with how well they played?

If LBJ had more impact scandisk, how the hell was Kobe's better than? People don't even understand their own arguments.

I think it's Lebron anyway, and not particularly close. Better stats, more memorable leading his team back every time. Had a lot of big games, especially when needed. Not to mention outplayed a direct rival who would have been called better by everyone had he not won. More pressure, more memorable, and he's simply a better player than Bryant was in 09, or ever for that matter.

playing alongside good players helps you.. you realize that right?

I agree lebron had a more "memorable" run. 5-2 so far. Will try not to count blatant second accounts.

[I LUV KOBE]

Kobe, not even close

[secund2nun]

Lebron easily.

30.3 ppg vs 30.2 ppg-------------------- Lebron advantage
50% fg vs 45.7% fg----------------------Lebron advantage
9.7 rpg vs 5.3 rpg------------------------Lebron advantage
5.6 apg vs 5.5 apg-----------------------Lebron advantage
1.9 spg vs 1.7 spg-----------------------Lebron advantage
.7 bpg vs .9 bpg-------------------------Kobe advantage

Also Lebron was the center piece of Miami's defense while Kobe was nowhere as impactful on defense as Lebron.

[scandisk_]

What do there sidekicks have to do with how well they played?

If LBJ had more impact scandisk, how the hell was Kobe's better than? People don't even understand their own arguments.

I think it's Lebron anyway, and not particularly close. Better stats, more memorable leading his team back every time. Had a lot of big games, especially when needed. Not to mention outplayed a direct rival who would have been called better by everyone had he not won. More pressure, more memorable, and he's simply a better player than Bryant was in 09, or ever for that matter.

errrrr maybe the difference was marginal? Lolz outplayed Durant? GTFO with that shit

[ripthekik]

Lebron

He saved the heat season in game 6 and 7 in the ecf. Also pretty carried the team when bosh went down in the esf and part of the ecf. The last reason heat were down in every series accept the first round and lebron was instrumental in over coming those humps.
Look at the Game 6 Wade stats I posted.
40 points, 17-25??? That's one top notch shooting percentage.. no matter what year you look at.

And yes competition.
Knicks :lol :lol
Pacers play physical but they don't have a superstar. Teams without superstars just don't win.
Boston missing their defender, and all hobbled and injured as well.
Rose being out of playoffs.

Tough road Lebron faced.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lbj

[RazorBaLade]

Lebron easily.

30.3 ppg vs 30.2 ppg-------------------- Lebron advantage
50% fg vs 45.7% fg----------------------Lebron advantage
9.7 rpg vs 5.3 rpg------------------------Lebron advantage
5.6 apg vs 5.5 apg-----------------------Lebron advantage
1.9 spg vs 1.7 spg-----------------------Lebron advantage
.7 bpg vs .9 bpg-------------------------Kobe advantage

Also Lebron was the center piece of Miami's defense while Kobe was nowhere as impactful on defense as Lebron.

Lebron had a statistical advantage but we have to consider the help and the teams IMO. They also played faster and bron played more min. Gotta consider it at all.

I dont know if I can take anyone seriously that doesnt think its at least close either way.

[TerranOP]

Post the level of competition Lebron faced as well. Hell, let me post it for you:

Dumb Knicks
Pacers who would be a 7th seed in the West
Old ass hobbled Celtics team

My vote is Kobe btw. I think Dirk's 2010-11 run was better than Lebron's as well if you factor everything into play. 10 years from now stat geeks like like ShaqAttack will spawn BS in forum threads claiming Lebron's run was better because of his inflated stats against weak competition.

You're telling me that Kobe's Lakers faced tough competition in 09?

8th seeded Jazz team
Houston rockets with their best player injured
the DENVER nuggets, a team with terrible playoff history and with Carmelo barely averaging 25 points and a mediocre team.

Worst of all, Orlando magic with Jameer Nelson, their hottest player during the year, coming off of an injury.

No way was Lebron's competition worse than this. The Pacers were the second hottest team in the entire league going into the playoffs (first being the Spurs). They were riding a sick record during the weeks before the postseason and they were playing their best ball of the year at that point.

OKC was an incredible team, EASILY better than the Magic team that Kobe faced. The odds were really close between OKC and the Heat. In the 2009 case, the Lakers were HEAVILY favored over the Magic.

You can say that Kobe's run was better, but no way in hell can you use the reasoning that Lebron's competition was "weaker". Find something credible.

So it's clear, I pick Lebron. He was a monster.

[RazorBaLade]

I am loling at the june dates and 10 posts trying to vote.

[Heavincent]

Mamba.

[Ketchup]

errrrr maybe the difference was marginal? Lolz outplayed Durant? GTFO with that shit

You must be the only one in the world who thinks Lebron didn't outplay Durant.

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron, and I can count all the votes in my thread if you want.

With that being said, if you don't count Kobe fans and LeBron fans' votes than I can absolutely guarantee you that LeBron would win this poll and it really wouldn't be close.

Kobe might win this poll due to having more fans on this site, that is really the only way and I've already seen a Laker fan voted LeBron in this discussion opposed to Kobe (1987_Lakers). You aren't going to have any Heat/Lebron fan vote against LeBron, I'll tell you that much.

[General]

I think it's Lebron anyway, and not particularly close. Better stats, more memorable leading his team back every time. Had a lot of big games, especially when needed. Not to mention outplayed a direct rival who would have been called better by everyone had he not won. More pressure, more memorable, and he's simply a better player than Bryant was in 09, or ever for that matter.
Hard to take someone seriously with posts like this. You can argue for one or the other, but the "not even close" ISH line is :facepalm

[RazorBaLade]

Lebron, and I can count all the votes in my thread if you want.

With that being said, if you don't count Kobe fans and LeBron fans' votes than I can absolutely guarantee you that LeBron would win this poll and it really wouldn't be close.

Kobe might win this poll due to having more fans on this site, that is really the only way and I've already seen a Laker fan voted LeBron in this discussion opposed to Kobe (1987_Lakers). You aren't going to have any Heat/Lebron fan vote against LeBron, I'll tell you that much.

i dont think its possible ot have a good enough sample size from neither kobe nor bron fans.

But if we can remove the 2nd accounts i think its going to be fair. And well, thats because tehre are no heat fans. 1987 mighta liked shaq and is just okay with kobe and likes lebron too. How many heat fans are there really that dont care for lebron after bringing them their 2nd ring? Theres no bad history there yet

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Lebron

[DuMa]

LBJ. more impact

[scandisk_]

Kobe overcame the pressure of winning a title without Shaq (twice) :rockon:

[Quickening]

Lebron easily.

30.3 ppg vs 30.2 ppg-------------------- Lebron advantage
50% fg vs 45.7% fg----------------------Lebron advantage
9.7 rpg vs 5.3 rpg------------------------Lebron advantage
5.6 apg vs 5.5 apg-----------------------Lebron advantage
1.9 spg vs 1.7 spg-----------------------Lebron advantage
.7 bpg vs .9 bpg-------------------------Kobe advantage

Also Lebron was the center piece of Miami's defense while Kobe was nowhere as impactful on defense as Lebron.

This, LeBron run comfortably better.

[Lebron23]

LBJ

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe actually led his team in 4th quarter Field Goals, Lebron didn't, Wade did.

09 Kobe

[Donnybrook]

Well, instead of arguing into an infinite void, I'll just say Kobe, because I like him better. I do not care for LeBron, and no amount of arguing will change my perspective.

Na na na na na na! :banana:

[RazorBaLade]

Someone else can count ALL the votes if they want but I want to count them only from what I consider legitimate accounts.. So right now its

6-6

I know this means maybe I miss an individuals true opinion but for some reason I think these accounts belong to the same guys ya know so I'll do this.

Cutoff at 200 posts basically.

[General]

One of the reasons I pick Kobe is because Lebron put up those stats against weaker opposition. There is no way he gets past the second round without Bosh if he were playing in the Western Conference. He ultimately needed both Bosh and Wade to get by the aging Celtics. If people are going to discredit Kobe for winning with Shaq, then they need to be consistent and discredit Lebron for winning with both Wade and Bosh.

[Quickening]

Well, instead of arguing into an infinite void, I'll just say Kobe, because I like him better. I do not care for LeBron, and no amount of arguing will change my perspective.

Na na na na na na! :banana:
This is the reason for most of Kobes votes, I like your honesty.

[RazorBaLade]

This is the reason for most of Kobes votes, I like your honesty.

I think most of us are voting for him because of the superior 4th quarter play, the lesser teammates, and not much worse stats with less minutes and a slower pace actually all contributing to being a slightly better playoff run overall. But oh well.

[TerranOP]

One of the reasons I pick Kobe is because Lebron put up those stats against weaker opposition. There is no way he gets past the second round without Bosh if he were playing in the Western Conference. He ultimately needed both Bosh and Wade to get by the aging Celtics. If people are going to discredit Kobe for winning with Shaq, then they need to be consistent and discredit Lebron for winning with both Wade and Bosh.

People discredit Kobe because Shaq won the FMVP those times. If Kobe won them there would be no discussion about this. Lebron was the clear leader on this team, which why his championship isnt being treated like Kobe's first 3.

Also, do you sincerely think Kobe's competition was good in 09? What was so good about the teams he faced? Orlando in the finals with an injured Jameer?

[hangintheair]

Gawdbe easily... :bowdown: :bowdown:

[RazorBaLade]

People discredit Kobe because Shaq won the FMVP those times. If Kobe won them there would be no discussion about this. Lebron was the clear leader on this team, which why his championship isnt being treated like Kobe's first 3.

Also, do you sincerely think Kobe's competition was good in 09? What was so good about the teams he faced? Orlando in the finals with an injured Jameer?

Orlando had the DPOY and was a good defensive team. Better than OKC which was mediocre. Nugs were no bos tho, but rockets and utah are west teams man... idk, does philly and indy even make playoffs in the west?

[TheeBeast]

Kobe easily. He took harder shots and was more important for his team than Lebron

[RazorBaLade]

Wow I am starting to hate kobe fans on this site

[secund2nun]

Lebron had a statistical advantage but we have to consider the help and the teams IMO. They also played faster and bron played more min. Gotta consider it at all.

I dont know if I can take anyone seriously that doesnt think its at least close either way.

lebron had less help. Wade was injured and played bad for large stretches. Bosh was out for most of the playoffs.

Lebron was easily better.

[TerranOP]

Kobe easily

Join Date: June 2012

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TerranOP]

Orlando had the DPOY and was a good defensive team. Better than OKC which was mediocre. Nugs were no bos tho, but rockets and utah are west teams man... idk, does philly and indy even make playoffs in the west?

I do agree Orlando was a pretty good defensive team. But an injured Jameer? He had a career season that year. I thought OKC was pretty damn good, they took out the Spurs, who SO many people had as favorites because of how hot they were. Durant played really well throughout the playoffs, Westbrook had his moments. I have to admit that Harden was a huge joke in the finals, but that doesn't discredit the team as a whole. They were not underdogs at all.

[RazorBaLade]

lebron had less help. Wade was injured and played bad for large stretches. Bosh was out for most of the playoffs.

Lebron was easily better.

**** you

[secund2nun]

**** you

Delusional Kobe stan.

[Story Up]

People discredit Kobe because Shaq won the FMVP those times. If Kobe won them there would be no discussion about this. Lebron was the clear leader on this team, which why his championship isnt being treated like Kobe's first 3.

Also, do you sincerely think Kobe's competition was good in 09? What was so good about the teams he faced? Orlando in the finals with an injured Jameer?
Would James win fmvp in those years? **** no.
Consider context dickheads. You guys put way too much value into fmvp, when Kobe played next to prime Shaq. Guy was still top 5 player in 01 and top 3 in 02. Lmao

[RazorBaLade]

I do agree Orlando was a pretty good defensive team. But an injured Jameer? He had a career season that year. I thought OKC was pretty damn good, they took out the Spurs, who SO many people had as favorites because of how hot they were. Durant played really well throughout the playoffs, Westbrook had his moments. I have to admit that Harden was a huge joke in the finals, but that doesn't discredit the team as a whole. They were not underdogs at all.

yeah but they got to the finals without him! Alston was doing work. Yea harden let the team down, I mean if OKC was playing with harden as 15ppg guy and heat won.. damn. but lakers killed orl and orl was good man , real good. Kobe came out first game and set the tone for the series!

okc was not the underdogs, yea, but hey ORL was underdogs against cavs that year so we all know how this stuff can turn out.

[General]

People discredit Kobe because Shaq won the FMVP those times. If Kobe won them there would be no discussion about this. Lebron was the clear leader on this team, which why his championship isnt being treated like Kobe's first 3.

Also, do you sincerely think Kobe's competition was good in 09? What was so good about the teams he faced? Orlando in the finals with an injured Jameer?
Kobe 2001 Playoffs: 29 Points, 7 Rebounds, 6 Assists
Lebron 2012 Playoffs: 30 points, 10 Rebounds, 5 Assists

Kobe has first option numbers, he was a top 3 player in the league, with Duncan and Shaq above him. You do realize that this version of Lebron would also be 1b option to prime Shaq?

[DatAsh]

I won't go so far as to say that the answer to this question is an easy, no questions asked, lopsided domination in favor of Lebron, but I will say that Lebron does have a somewhat clear advantage.

Lebron was better in virtually every area. He scored more, on better efficiency, assisted more, rebounded way more, and was the far superior defender.

Kobe's only real case IMO is the fact that Lebron had more help, and while I can agree that that is a somewhat legitimate argument, I don't know if it holds as much water as it normally would in this particular case. Lebron's team, although unquestionably better than 09' Kobe's team, is extraordinarily top heavy, and arguably constructed on the foundation of just three players. Now consider the fact that one of those three players was injured for much of the playoffs, and the other was playing on an injured knee(that or he's just declined). Those two factors somewhat counter the fact that Kobe played with an inferior supporting cast. Also, while I would generally agree that Wade>>>>Gasol, I don't think it's as cut and dry in this case.

Wade averaged 23/5/4 on 46%
Gasol averaged 18/11/3 on 54%

IMO it's closer than what you would normally think.

All that being said, what really put's Lebron's performance over the top is the fact that had the biggest games when they mattered most: the 45/15/5 on 73% game vs Boston to hold off elimination will go down as one of the greatest games of all time. Also, the triple double in the clinching game of the NBA finals will certainly be remembered as one of those shining moments in NBA finals history.

Kobe's run was epic, and among the best ever, but Lebron's was more epic, both in terms of how well they played, and how much was riding on each man's success/failure.

[Kews1]

Kobe easily. He took harder shots and was more important for his team than Lebron

lol his entire playoff run is based on the difficultly of his shots? haha idiot

[TheeBeast]

lol his entire playoff run is based on the difficultly of his shots? haha idiot

Implying I should describe his entire playoff run? :biggums:


Kobe was by far the best player on his team, his help came from an 18ppg Pau Gasol and an injured Andrew Bynum. On the other Hand Lebron had Dwayne Wade and Bosh, both of which Bynum couldn't even match at that time.

[RazorBaLade]

I won't go so far as to say that the answer to this question is an easy, no questions asked, lopsided domination in favor of Lebron, but I will say that Lebron does have a somewhat clear advantage.

Lebron was better in virtually every area. He scored more, on better efficiency, assisted more, rebounded way more, and was the far superior defender.

Kobe's only real case IMO is the fact that Lebron had more help, and while I can agree that that is a somewhat legitimate argument, I don't know if it holds as much water as it normally would in this particular case. Lebron's team, although unquestionably better than 09' Kobe's team, is extraordinarily top heavy, and arguably constructed on the foundation of just three players. Now consider the fact that one of those three players was injured for much of the playoffs, and the other was playing on an injured knee(that or he's just declined). Those two factors somewhat counter the fact that Kobe played with an inferior supporting cast. Also, while I would generally agree that Wade>>>>Gasol, I don't think it's as cut and dry in this case.

Wade averaged 23/5/4 on 46%
Gasol averaged 18/11/3 on 54%

IMO it's closer than what you would normally think.

All that being said, what really put's Lebron's performance over the top is the fact that had the biggest games when they mattered most: the 45/15/5 on 73% game vs Boston to hold off elimination will go down as one of the greatest games of all time. Also, the triple double in the clinching game of the NBA finals will certainly be remembered as one of those shining moments in NBA finals history.

Kobe's run was epic, and among the best ever, but Lebron's was more epic, both in terms of how well they played, and how much was riding on each man's success/failure.

the misleading thing about those stats is that wades are lowered by 3-4 games that were just PATHETIC, but gasol was consistent and kept that avg. Every game besides 4 or so tho wade was even better than those numbers indicate. He had 3 spectacular games in the finals which is crazy compared to pau especially 09.

Nonetheless, good post.

[imdaman99]

kobe and its damn well close. defensive specialists that would have been guarding lebron for a lot of their games were missing... aka shump and bradley. dont try and tell me that these defensive studs would not have been on lebron in their series :kobe:

[DatAsh]

Kobe 2001 Playoffs: 29 Points, 7 Rebounds, 6 Assists
Lebron 2012 Playoffs: 30 points, 10 Rebounds, 5 Assists


Actually it should be 30/10/6 since he averaged 5.6 assists, but you're point still stands.

[PickernRoller]

lol his entire playoff run is based on the difficultly of his shots? haha idiot

Gotta love how OP makes a thread with the intention of actually winning the poll and can barely make a concrete argument. Hopefully noone bails OP out...a deterrent to more stupid threads like this? ....and not the first time either....

[Bernie Nips]

Kobe.


This is Lebron's so called "sidekick"

Wade vs Pacers
Game 4: 13-23 FG, 9 reb, 6 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, 30 points
Game 5: 10-17 FG, 3 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 28 points
Game 6: 17-25 FG, 10 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 41 points

Dude can still run a team of his own, even with a bad knee.

How fun is cherry picking games to prove a point? Check this out in the 08/09 run for the Lakers!

Lamar Odom vs Utah
26/15/4/3 on 66% shooting!

Paul Gasol vs Utah
22/6 on 82% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Houston
22/14/4 on 70% shooting!
21/18 on 52% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Denver
17/17/3 on 63% shooting!
20/12/6/3 on 67% shooting!

Take the casts out of it.

LeBron played better in all aspects of the game (scoring, rebounding, passing, defense). LeBron had to face a much more difficult opponent in the Finals. Simple as that.

[RazorBaLade]

How fun is cherry picking games to prove a point? Check this out in the 08/09 run for the Lakers!

Lamar Odom vs Utah
26/15/4/3 on 66% shooting!

Paul Gasol vs Utah
22/6 on 82% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Houston
22/14/4 on 70% shooting!
21/18 on 52% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Denver
17/17/3 on 63% shooting!
20/12/6/3 on 67% shooting!

Take the casts out of it.

LeBron played better in all aspects of the game (scoring, rebounding, passing, defense). LeBron had to face a much more difficult opponent in the Finals. Simple as that.

first of all no, dont take casts out of it. u dont need to cherry pick i agree but their avgs matter! Orl vs okc is very arguable.

Hakeems run is considered awesome because he had no help, kobe had less help than bron.. it has to be a factor. MAYBE u think its not enough of a factor to make up for the negligible stat and impact differences but its a factor

[I LUV KOBE]

If 2009 Kobe played in Miami Heat instead of Lebron, they could easily have 2 rings by now..

[DatAsh]

the misleading thing about those stats is that wades are lowered by 3-4 games that were just PATHETIC, but gasol was consistent and kept that avg. Every game besides 4 or so tho wade was even better than those numbers indicate. He had 3 spectacular games in the finals which is crazy compared to pau especially 09.

Nonetheless, good post.

I can agree with this.

The good thing about averages is that they allow you to more easily see the big picture. They tend to make up for the basic selective human memory bias, and give a more accurate representation of a player's "average performance"(You could even somewhat judge a players overall consistency with other statistical measures, but that gets a bit more complicated).

The bad thing about averages is that they don't show you how a player achieved that average. They don't show you if a player came through big when it mattered most. They don't show you that a player shrank when it really didn't matter at all. All they show you is the "average".

[TerranOP]

Would James win fmvp in those years? **** no.
Consider context dickheads. You guys put way too much value into fmvp, when Kobe played next to prime Shaq. Guy was still top 5 player in 01 and top 3 in 02. Lmao

You're not even making the correct comparison. James was clearly the leader on the team and he is being discredited for having Wade and Bosh. Do you believe that's fair? I'm responding to why it ISN'T fair. I personally think Kobe was incredibly important during the 3-peat. I was responding to why people tend to say that they aren't his rings. I would definitely say that Lebron's ring means more for him than, say, the 2000 ring for Kobe. Most people would agree. Why don't you actually read before getting defensive and ramming a stick up your ass?

[Crimzon]

kobe and its damn well close. defensive specialists that would have been guarding lebron for a lot of their games were missing... aka shump and bradley. dont try and tell me that these defensive studs would not have been on lebron in their series :kobe:


This was post-up Bron, not attack from the perimeter Bron.. He would've killed then in the post.

This isnt a second account and the vote won't count but I'd vote James based on whats already been posted in this thread..

[TerranOP]

How fun is cherry picking games to prove a point? Check this out in the 08/09 run for the Lakers!

Lamar Odom vs Utah
26/15/4/3 on 66% shooting!

Paul Gasol vs Utah
22/6 on 82% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Houston
22/14/4 on 70% shooting!
21/18 on 52% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Denver
17/17/3 on 63% shooting!
20/12/6/3 on 67% shooting!

Take the casts out of it.

LeBron played better in all aspects of the game (scoring, rebounding, passing, defense). LeBron had to face a much more difficult opponent in the Finals. Simple as that.

It is that simple. Kobe stans are making it complicated.

[Celtic_Pride]

When it comes to side-kick thing, Gasol was as great as any side-kick during that finals. Played extremely efficient on the offensive end with the DPOY guarding him for the most part and guarding the opponent team's best player on the defensive end. Kobe had the better side-kick than Lebron. Wade might be the better overall player than Gasol but when it comes being a 2nd option, Gasol is more useful than Wade!

[TheeBeast]

It is that simple. Kobe stans are making it complicated.

No it isn't. Kobe played against the best defensive team in the league, he could have averaged more against the Thunder

[TerranOP]

Kobe 2001 Playoffs: 29 Points, 7 Rebounds, 6 Assists
Lebron 2012 Playoffs: 30 points, 10 Rebounds, 5 Assists

Kobe has first option numbers, he was a top 3 player in the league, with Duncan and Shaq above him. You do realize that this version of Lebron would also be 1b option to prime Shaq?


I agree, Lebron would definitely be 1b to Shaq. That isn't the issue though. Discrediting Lebron for this ring would be analogous to discrediting SHAQ for his ring because he had Kobe. THAT is the correct comparison rather than comparing Lebron to Kobe. Shaq had Kobe, yet nobody takes those rings away from him. In the same vein, this ring shouldn't be discredited from Lebron because he was the clear leader of the team.

[RazorBaLade]

When it comes to side-kick thing, Gasol was as great as any side-kick during that finals. Played extremely efficient on the offensive end with the DPOY guarding him for the most part and guarding the opponent team's best player on the defensive end. Kobe had the better side-kick than Lebron. Wade might be the better overall player than Gasol but when it comes being a 2nd option, Gasol is more useful than Wade!

I don't think kobe would have minded if gasol scored 5 more points a game and had a few 30 pt games in finals. He just isn't that good. Sure hes good enough for a 2nd option, so is bosh, but bosh got to be the 3rd option. I mean the team just had a lot of talent. A lot. So much more than lakers did. It just has to factor in, regardless of whether or not a player executed his role better.. i mean wow, sasha vujacic is a much more nicer 7th man than nash would be.. nash wouldnt be happy and execute that as well. Doesnt make nash better

[ripthekik]

How fun is cherry picking games to prove a point? Check this out in the 08/09 run for the Lakers!

Lamar Odom vs Utah
26/15/4/3 on 66% shooting!

Paul Gasol vs Utah
22/6 on 82% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Houston
22/14/4 on 70% shooting!
21/18 on 52% shooting!

Pau Gasol vs Denver
17/17/3 on 63% shooting!
20/12/6/3 on 67% shooting!

.
You call me Cherry picking when I picked 3 straight games, but you have choose from different games from different series?
Not to mention the fact that none of those games even come close to what Wade put up?

17-25? 40 points? That's special, my friend. That's Top 3 player of the league, TOP SG of the league stats, that hardly anyone puts up in any playoffs.

People comparing Wade and Pau. Are you guys forgetting Lebron has a Bosh too? :oldlol:

[I LUV KOBE]

Kobe played with the Softest PF in the league and a no Knees center. Having to carry this two okay starters to win a championship in a much better competition while compared that to Lebron who has a top 3 player in Wade who already won a title by himself and an easily a top 10 player in Bosh if he has his own team..

2009 Kobe > Lebron 2012 fact..

[Smoke117]

Obviously Lebron. He was better offensively and he plays much better defense.

[DirtySanchez]

Kobe...and he won the following year.

[TheCorporation]

LBJ, at it's not even close...

[Kews1]

embarrassing thread :facepalm

[dyna]

Lebron

[Sakkreth]

LeBron

Kobe stans are so pathetic at this point that it's not even funny anymore.

[Rysio]

kobe's series vs nuggets >>>>>>>>>> all 4 of lebricks

[AlonzoGOAT]

LeBron :applause:

[I LUV KOBE]

Lebron 2012 post season is one of the greatest playoff run as a sidekick maybe the best ever dunno about other sidekick.. Lebron was very lucky to outplayed Wade in the playoff due to injury.. If wade was healthy, there's no doubt he still the best player in the heat and will win the fmvp and even Bosh has a chance to win fmvp if he was also healthy.. Its show you how stacked the heat was compared that to Kobe who has the softest PF and injury prone no kness bynum..

Kobe 2009 PO run is more impressive and a lot better than Lebron overrated 2012 PO run..

[AlonzoGOAT]

Lebron 2012 post season is one of the greatest playoff run as a sidekick maybe the best ever dunno about other sidekick.. Lebron was very lucky to outplayed Wade in the playoff due to injury.. If wade was healthy, there's no doubt he still the best player in the heat and will win the fmvp and even Bosh has a chance to win fmvp if he was also healthy.. Its show you how stacked the heat was compared that to Kobe who has the softest PF and injury prone no kness bynum..

Kobe 2009 PO run is more impressive and a lot better than Lebron overrated 2012 PO run..


Stopped reading right there. Did you drop out of community college? Kobe Stans are a disgrace. And I should of known by your username. Here's hoping you do have legit mental illness.

[Kews1]

Lebron 2012 post season is one of the greatest playoff run as a sidekick maybe the best ever dunno about other sidekick.. Lebron was very lucky to outplayed Wade in the playoff due to injury.. If wade was healthy, there's no doubt he still the best player in the heat and will win the fmvp and even Bosh has a chance to win fmvp if he was also healthy.. Its show you how stacked the heat was compared that to Kobe who has the softest PF and injury prone no kness bynum..

Kobe 2009 PO run is more impressive and a lot better than Lebron overrated 2012 PO run..
http://i49.tinypic.com/o8z3ox.png

[SilkkTheShocker]

It's Lebron by a good amount. Especially when you factor how Wade was inconsistent/injured and Bosh missed virtually the whole 2nd round and and most of the ECF. Do you see the 2012 heat getting taken to 7 games by a bunch of role players in Houston? Lebrons game 6 alone is better than anything Kobe did in the playoffs that season.

[OmniStrife]

LeBron James.

[raprap]

Both are great. LBJ takes this though.

[I LUV KOBE]

Stopped reading right there. Did you drop out of community college? Kobe Stans are a disgrace. And I should of known by your username. Here's hoping you do have legit mental illness.
I'm just stating facts, don't get hurts by it.. Sometimes reality hurts a lot.. It just that Lebron PO run was recent that's why everyone was riding his nuts just like what happen last year when Dirk won.. After that everyone will forget it if other Superstars won championship but Kobe finals run will never be forgotten cause it is one of the best, easily top ten or arguably top 5 PO finals run of all time..

[CardiacKemba]

I'm just stating facts, don't get hurts by it.. Sometimes reality hurts a lot.. It just that Lebron PO run was recent that's why everyone was riding his nuts just like what happen last year when Dirk won.. After that everyone will forget it if other Superstars won championship but Kobe finals run will never be forgotten cause it is one of the best, easily top ten or arguably top 5 PO finals run of all time..

Top 5 finals run? Can't be serious.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Easily Lebron. Kobe's was great, but Lebron's was all-time level (prob top 10-12).

[Doctor Rivers]

I'm just stating facts, don't get hurts by it.. Sometimes reality hurts a lot.. It just that Lebron PO run was recent that's why everyone was riding his nuts just like what happen last year when Dirk won.. After that everyone will forget it if other Superstars won championship but Kobe finals run will never be forgotten cause it is one of the best, easily top ten or arguably top 5 PO finals run of all time..

stop trolling

[pegasus]

Kobe.

[guy]

Post your thoughts, argue, etc, but include a vote. Kobe or Lebron.

Here's the information you need:

Kobe: 30 5 6 in 41MPG. 46% fg, 56% TS.
Sidekick: 18 11 3 in 41MPG. 58% fg, 62% TS.

Lebron: 30 10 6 in 43MPG. 50% fg, 58% TS.
Sidekick: 23 5 4 in 39MPG. 46% fg, 53% TS.

Wow, its pathetic how hard you are trying to make this Kobe. Why does it matter how their sidekick did? The game isn't played on 2 on 2. Instead, why don't you take into account how much they contributed to their whole teams' production? If you do that, you would get the following % of what they made up of their team's stats:

Kobe: 29% of points, 13% of rebounds, 28% of assists
Lebron: 31% of points, 24% of rebounds, 32% of assists

Lebron contributed more across the board for the team as a whole. Who cares what the 2nd best player did when you see that?

And I'm not saying stats are everything. But if you're going to use stats relative to his other teammates to make an argument, don't just use one teammate.

[pauk]

Only a Kobetard would think this was debatable....

LEBRON... by far.. Kobe was great by his standards in 09, but that playoff run was not tied with or better than Lebron...

Lebron dropped MUCH better overall numbers, PER rating at 30.3, #3 highest of all these players playoff runs with numbers of 30-10-6-2-1@50%FG, led his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals and had a better defensive impact aswell (efficient versatility/shutting down the best player when it matters whether it is a PG-SG-SF or PF), led everybody in 4th qtr scoring, clutch stats, while having a worse productive supporting cast than 09 Kobe especially offensively (ill show you if you wish), beat the hottest NBA team in the Finals (who in manys eyes were the favorites to win) 4-1... without HCA... and dropped better numbers in the Finals......

[LBJ 23]

Thread title is playoff run so it really has to be Lebron. Those 2 crucial games against Indiana and Boston where Lebron completely willed his team to a victory when his team needed him most make the difference if anyone would still argue that Kobe was better in the Finals(he was not though). Kobe has never had games like this.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

LeBron had the better run.

[BlueandGold]

Kobe, also have to consider what he did in that 3 year stretch. Faced celtics twice, one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, and also beat them in the first game 7 the Lakers have ever won against the green.

Lebron's season: Dwight, Rose both succumb to season ending injuries. Celtics are visibly hobbled, still took them to game 7. Also the pacers gave them a scare?

[b4uc.23]

Lebron.

Kobetards acting like Pau was not a dominant big that season. lol

[RRR3]

LeBron easily. Sooner or later you Kobe fans are going to have to face the fact that LeBron is just a better player than Kobe.

[guy]

Kobe, also have to consider what he did in that 3 year stretch. Faced celtics twice, one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, and also beat them in the first game 7 the Lakers have ever won against the green.

Lebron's season: Dwight, Rose both succumb to season ending injuries. Celtics are visibly hobbled, still took them to game 7. Also the pacers gave them a scare?

What does 2010 have to do with 2009? The Pacers giving the Heat without Bosh a scare is not nearly as bad as the Rockets without T-mac or Yao giving the Lakers an even bigger scare.

Its funny how people bring up the "hobbled" 2012 Celtics. Even though they were old and banged up, they would've still beaten any of the Lakers' opponents of the first 3 rounds in 2009.

Its hilarious how sensitive Kobe fans are getting knowing that Lebron probably has a better playoff run then Kobe has ever had despite having almost half as long of a career and not having nearly as many great teams capable of going on a 4 round playoff run.

[amfirst]

Easly Kobe. LeBron needed 2 other prime allstars to win, including spectacular high percentage three point shooters on his team. And a washed up East playoffs competition.

[AlonzoGOAT]

Easly Kobe. LeBron needed 2 other prime allstars to win, including spectacular high percentage three point shooters on his team. And a washed up East playoffs competition.


Lol wade(Knee) is not what he used to be and Battier/Miller(Injures) have sucked all season do you look at teams on how good they are on paper like if they are always 100%:biggums:

[ripthekik]

the amount of Lebron fantards in this thread is suffocating! :oldlol:
Lebron was great, no doubt about it, but with 2 prime stars in his team.
If you get to dominate the ball with those 2 guys, and another 2 nba top 3 point shooters, you will get stats.

[ripthekik]

Lol wade(Knee) is not what he used to be and Battier/Miller(Injures) have sucked all season do you look at teams on how good they are on paper like if they are always 100%:biggums:
stfu
Wade game 3,4,5 pacers series put up 40 points on 17-25 shooting
That's the #1 SG production
he could appear at any time and shat on teams like that.

[RRR3]

What does 2010 have to do with 2009? The Pacers giving the Heat without Bosh a scare is not nearly as bad as the Rockets without T-mac or Yao giving the Lakers an even bigger scare.

Its funny how people bring up the "hobbled" 2012 Celtics. Even though they were old and banged up, they would've still beaten any of the Lakers' opponents of the first 3 rounds in 2009.

Its hilarious how sensitive Kobe fans are getting knowing that Lebron probably has a better playoff run then Kobe has ever had despite having almost half as long of a career and not having nearly as many great teams capable of going on a 4 round playoff run.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe easily. He took harder shots and was more important for his team than Lebron

:rolleyes:

[greymatter]

The Lakers only had the tallest, longest, most dominant front-court in Gasol, Bynum, Odom that gave every team it faced fits on both sides of the ball. Lebron's had two sub-100% teammates in Wade and Bosh and had to play out of his mind to give his team just a chance to win against a superior OKC team.

[Heavincent]

The Lakers only had the tallest, longest, most dominant front-court in Gasol, Bynum, Odom that gave every team it faced fits on both sides of the ball. Lebron's had two sub-100% teammates in Wade and Bosh and had to play out of his mind to give his team just a chance to win against a superior OKC team.

Didn't Bynum average like 6/4 in the playoffs that year? Dominant! :oldlol:

Kobe was unreal in 09. Anyone saying that it isn't close is a moron.

[LamarOdom]

It's tight, both were great but I'll give the edge to LeBron by a slight margin becuse of how great defense he played, not saying Godbe played bad defense he was also great but WOW LeBron carried the Heat this year although he did have some easy opponents and barley got by.

[Bigsmoke]

just saying'

-Who cares who the 2nd option was. we are comparing the HNICs and not their sidekicks.
-Bosh was out for nearly half of the playoffs and Wade was hurt and have to have surgery after the playoffs. Bosh didnt even play that well when he was playing anyway.
-The Lakers were just as good if not better without Bynum back in 2009. Stop acting like he was as important to the Lakers as Bosh or Wade were to the Heat.
-LeBron has better stats ACROSS the board and everybody who voted for Kobe doesnt even bother looking at them
-Lakers fans are **** and can never get LeBron's dick out of his mouths


my vote
LeBron

[SilkkTheShocker]

Didn't Bynum average like 6/4 in the playoffs that year? Dominant! :oldlol:


Him and Gasol both made Howard look pretty average in the Finals. Lebron won a championship with Turiaf, Haslem, Pittman, and Anthony playing minutes the first 3 rounds.

[NOHCP3]

Lebron. Might just be living in that post game 6 in Boston life but idk if I've ever seen anything like that on the road. Wil always think of Bill Simmons relating it to the Celtics making Lebron into a serial killer. Throw out the help and sidekick sh*t doesn't really matter. Kobe had good players, Lebron had good players. Lebron excelled in all facets of the game in each series so I'll give it Bron.

[staywhite]

Someone else can count ALL the votes if they want but I want to count them only from what I consider legitimate accounts.. So right now its

6-6

I know this means maybe I miss an individuals true opinion but for some reason I think these accounts belong to the same guys ya know so I'll do this.

Cutoff at 200 posts basically.

LBJ

So... only the biggest nerds can vote?

[ripthekik]

just saying'

-Who cares who the 2nd option was. we are comparing the HNICs and not their sidekicks.
-Bosh was out for nearly half of the playoffs and Wade was hurt and have to have surgery after the playoffs. Bosh didnt even play that well when he was playing anyway.


1. so u telling me it would be the same performance if A played with 4 stars and B carried 4 scrubs?

2. When Bosh was out, heat was down. When Bosh came back, Heat started winning. Lebron MVP my ass.

3. Wade put up PRIMETIME numbers, 40 points shooting 17/25. A lot of 30+ games as well. This made celtics double team him, and Lebron has more space to do whatever. It allowed him to get his $tats.

4. Bynum was a hobbled scrub. You didn't watch the games.

Lebron fantards will never be able to face the fact that he could only have such a nice run because he's playing with 2 stars in their primes. Lebron himself will never be able to carry a team in a playoff run the way Kobe or even Dirk last year did.

This guy is unproven. He hasn't gotten over any hump. If you put him in a team to lead, he will choke again as well. He only did ok this time because he had 2 elder brothers looking over his back. Did he make any buzzer beaters/last second shots this playoffs? Didn't think so. If your team is down in the last seconds, and you have Lebron, you're losing. Thank goodness for his teammates, he was never put in such position. Otherwise, he would be exposed.

[DuMa]

its funny how kobe stans want to use the 2012 east washed up statement when KG was injured in 2009 and took boston's chances of repeating away. funny how they never remember that

[andgar923]

Can anybody name some 2 of Kobe's most memorable performances from that run?

And shall we revisit how poorly he usually played in the 4th quarters? Specially in series defining moments?

Call it hating all you want, but bron had some historical moments this playoff run. And shall I even mention his superior finals performance, better than any finals series Kobe's ever had?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bron pretty easily.

[sic]

Lebron and it is not that close

[caliman]

It can be argued either way, but I'll go with LeBron. He had the better numbers with better efficiency and more impact. And that's not even getting into the gulf that separates what they did on the defensive end.

The "weak competition" angle is just stupid. It's not like Kobe went through a murderers row to win the title. A weak Jazz team, a Rockets team that was missing its 2 best players, the Carmelo led Nuggets, and Orlando with Nelson coming back after significant time off. That isn't demonstrably better competition.

Personally I thought the Kobe's 2008 run was better until he gagged in the Finals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It can be argued either way, but I'll go with LeBron. He had the better numbers with better efficiency and more impact. And that's not even getting into the gulf that separates what they did on the defensive end.

The "weak competition" angle is just stupid. It's not like Kobe went through a murderers row to win the title. A weak Jazz team, a Rockets team that was missing its 2 best players, the Carmelo led Jazz, and Orlando with Nelson coming back after significant time off. That isn't demonstrably better competition.

Personally I thought the Kobe's 2008 run was better until he gagged in the Finals.


The Carmello led Jazz? :roll:


Pau Gasol/ Lamar Odom > Dwade & Bosh :facepalm

Bynum was a below average Center in the 09 playoffs, not to mention he was always hurt. Then you have Pau Gasol who's a legit 18 & 8 guy.

But other than that your 3rd scoring option is Lamar Odom..

5 years from now when people look back on it, the un biased eye will realize how weak of a TEAM that 09 & even 10 Lakers teams were.

You basically had no bench, no outside shooting, in 09 you had an unproven trevor ariza who hadn't done anything until that point. Nobody other than Kobe & sometime Pau who can get their own shot.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Can anybody name some 2 of Kobe's most memorable performances from that run?

And shall we revisit how poorly he usually played in the 4th quarters? Specially in series defining moments?

Call it hating all you want, but bron had some historical moments this playoff run. And shall I even mention his superior finals performance, better than any finals series Kobe's ever had?

Memorable moment # 1.

Kobe's 35 & 10 game in the WCF game 7 ON 60% Shooting

[Segatti]

Efficience wise is even, Kobe was better in 3 pointers and free throws. 4 more rebounds for Lebron, but Kobe played SG and Lebron sometimes was the center, unfair comparison. Assists are the same too. And Lebron was a better defender, but Kobe was more clutch and his team was more dependent on him. It's pretty close on my opinion.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Memorable moment # 1.

Kobe's 35 & 10 game in the WCF game 7 ON 60% Shooting


There was no game 7, retard.

[Heavincent]

And shall we revisit how poorly he usually played in the 4th quarters? Specially in series defining moments?

You never have anything to back this up. Talking out of your ass as usual :oldlol:

[Rnbizzle]

Right.. clearly Lebron takes this. If you take away the votes of posters with less then a 100 posts or obvious trolls, Lebron is the clear victor.

[keepinitreal]

4 of my friends (from LA) all say kobe

[inclinerator]

4 of my friends (from LA) all say kobe
ok so 1 vote for kobe

[Deuce Bigalow]

Can anybody name some 2 of Kobe's most memorable performances from that run?

And shall we revisit how poorly he usually played in the 4th quarters? Specially in series defining moments?

Call it hating all you want, but bron had some historical moments this playoff run. And shall I even mention his superior finals performance, better than any finals series Kobe's ever had?
Yeah lets revisit his poor 4th quarters. Can you share them?

[LikeABosh]

Look at the Game 6 Wade stats I posted.
40 points, 17-25??? That's one top notch shooting percentage.. no matter what year you look at.

And yes competition.
Knicks :lol :lol
Pacers play physical but they don't have a superstar. Teams without superstars just don't win.
Boston missing their defender, and all hobbled and injured as well.
Rose being out of playoffs.

Tough road Lebron faced.
Yea and Kobe had to go through the all mighty Orlando Magic in the finals. :rolleyes:

[RRR3]

Enough of this bullshit that Kobe faced some "legendary" team in the 2009 finals. Have you guys forgotten that in 2009 LEBRON JAMES DESTROYED that same Magic team, averaging 38-8-8 on 49% shooting, including a buzzer-beating 3PT'er and a 49 point game? LeBron's playoff run in 2009 was insane, you can't fault him that year, that year his teammates let him down. And LeBron was spectacular in the 2012 playoffs. I don't think you guys realize how much he was asked to do for his team. Also, LeBron seemed to play his best with "his back against the wall":

Down 2-1 to Pacers in ECSF: Bron drops 41 and 19 IIRC
Down 3-2 to Celtics in ECF: Bron drops 45 points on like 73% shooting, rebounds IIRC were 15
Down 1-0 to Thunder: Leads Heat to 4 straight victories with spectacular all-around play.

[Knoe Itawl]

LeBron easily. Sooner or later you Kobe fans are going to have to face the fact that LeBron is just a better player than Kobe.

Seriously. These dudes just get more and more pathetic.

[blablabla]

kobe

[Rysio]

both averaged 30ppg and 5.5apg with around the same efficiency. rebounds don't count cause lebron's a forward and he's a stat padder. kobe faced better defense. fact. oh and he averaged 1 turnover per game less than lebrick too.


next

[Jax]

both averaged 30ppg and 5.5apg with around the same efficiency. rebounds don't count cause lebron's a forward and he's a stat padder. kobe faced better defense. fact. oh and he averaged 1 turnover per game less than lebrick too.


nextCan I use the same argument? Kobe is a shooting guard so points don't matter, Lebron defense>
So Lebron wins.
Kobe stans are smoking crack :applause:

[arifgokcen]

both averaged 30ppg and 5.5apg with around the same efficiency. rebounds don't count cause lebron's a forward and he's a stat padder. kobe faced better defense. fact. oh and he averaged 1 turnover per game less than lebrick too.


next

Actually knicks pacers and boston were much better defensive team than houston,denver,utah.Dont forget magic basically had no one to defend the perimeter.Lebron averaged 38-8-8 best statistical playoff series ever in a losing effort.So thats just stupid.

After 2010 finals when kobe went for 6-24 and had a horrible 4th quarter in game 7 against boston fans like you said he contributed in other areas like gathering 15 rebounds so when lebron piles up stats its stat padding but when kobe does he is the best player.

Wow hypocrisy wow

Dont forget kobe didnt have to defend anyone.Without lebron,miami has no defense whatsoever

Thirdly dont forget lebron rivals was Melo,Granger,Pierce,Durant
These are the best players at SF after lebron and lebron basically defended every position on the floor to make miami successful and he assumed the roles of center on defense and pg,sg,sf,pf on offense.

Lastly dont forget lakers didnt have to face a real challenge on their way to championship compared to miami.Look at 2012 boston.They could have easily beaten any of those teams denver,houston,utah and even magic.However OKC would smack 2009 lakers easily.

Still lebron performed better in every possible facet of the game.Heck he was even more clutch than kobe.Kobe is a SG and lebron scores much more efficiently than him only area kobe is supposed to be better.So no this years run,lebron had one of the best statistical playoff performances of alltime.If you factor in defense and hurdles he had to overcome this is easily top 5.Kobe run doesnt even crack top 10

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

all the neutrals voting lebron

:D

[Nash]

Kobe: 29% of points, 13% of rebounds, 28% of assists
Lebron: 31% of points, 24% of rebounds, 32% of assists


Best stat so far. This says it all. Lebron of course.

And its clear to any neutral that Lebron had the better run.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.

[caliman]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.


They didn't play the Celtics.

[guy]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.
:oldlol: epic fail

[Heavincent]

And its clear to any neutral that Lebron had the better run.

No. It's not clear, it's very, very close.

[arifgokcen]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.

This must be the fail of the year.

[asdf1990]

who'd kobe guard and who did lebron guard?

kyle korver
courney lee
shane battier
dhantey jones

lebron on the other hand
melo
pierce
granger
durant

[arifgokcen]

No. It's not clear, it's very, very close.

No its not close dont forget he arent even factoring the defensive side.On top of that,teams lakers faced have no defense compared to teams miami faced and every stat and eyetest is telling lebron run is clearly superior

Tell me just one thing kobe did better than lebron.

[StateOfMind12]

Dont forget kobe didnt have to defend anyone.Without lebron,miami has no defense whatsoever
This actually isn't true because Miami was an elite defense even before LeBron went to Miami. Their defense is great because of Spoelstra and because of their coaching staff. I think most of the time players get a little bit too much credit when it comes to why a team is successful defensively. It is usually because their coach is a very good and smart defensive minded one.

LeBron did play great defense in his post-season run though and Kobe played good defense in his playoff run too but for spurts. LeBron was more consistent defensively and he is much more important and versatile defensively.

I don't think this argument between their playoff runs is close but I don't think defense is the biggest separation.

[LelBron]

rebounds don't count cause lebron's a forward and he's a stat padder.

http://i.imgur.com/UpcH7.jpg

[RRR3]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.
:roll: :roll: :roll: http://youtu.be/p9kEzrrXBM8?t=4m5s

[Mr. Jabbar]

They didn't play the Celtics.

oh nvm, was thinking bout 10 run, yeh 9 run was pretty weak xept for rockets

[Replay32]

Lebron had a better run.

[Replay32]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.

:lol

[RRR3]

Mr. Jabbar=
http://amillers1975.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/crazy-lakers-fan.jpg

[arifgokcen]

This actually isn't true because Miami was an elite defense even before LeBron went to Miami. Their defense is great because of Spoelstra and because of their coaching staff. I think most of the time players get a little bit too much credit when it comes to why a team is successful defensively. It is usually because their coach is a very good and smart defensive minded one.

LeBron did play great defense in his post-season run though and Kobe played good defense in his playoff run too but for spurts. LeBron was more consistent defensively and he is much more important and versatile defensively.

I don't think this argument between their playoff runs is close but I don't think defense is the biggest separation.

Wow you have to be a politician.You just took one sentence of my whole argument.Let me explain

I compared players kobe and lebron had to defend.This is why kobe didnt even exert his energy on defensive side.Lebron probably faced best SFs in the league and he had to defend everyone to stay alive and still kobe's stats are inferior to lebron's.Kobe's only advantage is his clutch performance and even lebron was a better clutch player.

So lebron's run was much better.Only lakers/kobe fans and lebron haters would try to compare their runs.Neutral fan as most say lebron run was on a whole different level.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Posted this on the other thread, with other things added

Kobe averaged 40.9 MPG, Lebron averaged 42.7 MPG

Here are Lebron's stats per 40.9 MPG:

LBJ per 40.9..........Kobe
29.0 ppg..............30.2 ppg - Kobe
9.3 rpg.................5.3 rpg - Lebron
5.4 apg................5.5 apg - Kobe
1.8 spg................1.7 spg - Lebron
0.7 bpg................0.9 bpg - Kobe
3.4 to..................2.6 to - Kobe
57.6 ts%..............56.4 ts% - Lebron
50.0 fg%..............45.6 fg% - Lebron
25.9 3pt%............34.9 3pt% - Kobe
73.9 ft%..............88.3 ft% - Kobe

Heat's 4th Quarter/OT leading scorer: D-Wade
Laker's 4th Quarter/OT leading scorer: Kobe

Advantage: Kobe

PPG difference from 2nd best player
Kobe: 11.9
Lebron: 7.5

Advantage: Kobe

Kobe 8, Lebron 4

[RRR3]

Dunce "Thinkin' Slow" at it again :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://i36.tinypic.com/1ptcn5.jpg

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.

oh boy

Lakers fans these days.....

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dwade led the Miami Heat in 4th quarter FG, and in the 2nd half was only 1 FG behind Lebron while taking 30 less shots

RRRetard at it again

[StateOfMind12]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7498900&postcount=65


It's no point to argue since you are going by stats only.

Funny how Deuce Bigalow was complaining about how LeBron fans only use stats to back up their case but now he is using stats to back up his case.

:oldlol:

[RRR3]

:blah :blah :blah :blah
This idiot. Wade was crap most of the playoffs, Bosh was more valuable than him. Just because Wade scored 23+ PPG doesn't mean he played spectacularly. Wade played like an idiot most of the playoffs, I lost count of his bad decisions, especially late in games. Hooray for Wade for being able to catch the passes LeBron spoon-fed him :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7498900&postcount=65



Funny how Deuce Bigalow was complaining about how LeBron fans only use stats to back up their case but now he is using stats to back up his case.

:oldlol:
clutch and teammates. Two words without stats.

[RRR3]

clutch and teammates. Two words without stats.
LeBron was super clutch in the playoffs this year. Pretty sure LeBron has only 1 or 2 less game winners in his playoff career than Kobe despite playing half as many games and having way less attempts. :confusedshrug:

[Heavincent]

Wade was crap most of the playoffs, Bosh was more valuable than him. Just because Wade scored 23+ PPG doesn't mean he played spectacularly. Wade played like an idiot most of the playoffs, I lost count of his bad decisions, especially late in games. Hooray for Wade for being able to catch the passes LeBron spoon-fed him :applause:

Wade is a washed up sidekick and is a disgrace to basketball, but he's still a great second option to have.

[RRR3]

Wade is a washed up sidekick and is a disgrace to basketball, but he's still a great second option to have.
:eek:
A little too harsh, don't you think? :ohwell:

[Dave3]

Dwade led the Miami Heat in 4th quarter FG, and in the 2nd half was only 1 FG behind Lebron while taking 30 less shots

RRRetard at it again
Still don't understand why points from free throws don't count in your world.

LeBron leads in total 4th quarter points so you nit pick field goals? Is it not obvious that this is the reason why no one who's not a Kobe lover takes you seriously?

[StateOfMind12]

clutch and teammates. Two words without stats.
.....and how did you backup your clutch and teammates argument? With stats. :rolleyes: :facepalm

I still find it hilarious how you refuse to acknowledge and count FTs in the clutch stats. Apparently FGs is the only way you can score. :rolleyes:

[RRR3]

Still don't understand why points from free throws don't count in your world.

LeBron leads in total 4th quarter points so you nit pick field goals? Is it not obvious that this is the reason why no one who's not a Kobe lover takes you seriously?
Come on, man, go easy on "Dunce", he's a little slow upstairs, ya know? :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

:eek:
A little too harsh, don't you think? :ohwell:

No. All the guy does is flop and throw his body into defenders. He cares more about getting calls then just playing basketball.

And he is definitely washed up. His broken jump shot was exposed because his athleticism declined this past season.

[TerranOP]

Dwade led the Miami Heat in 4th quarter FG, and in the 2nd half was only 1 FG behind Lebron while taking 30 less shots

RRRetard at it again

FG? Lebron led in fourth quarter points. Why don't you bring that up? You don't count being aggressive and getting to the line? Are you ****ing retarded? Your cherry-picking reveals an obvious agenda. Lebron did great in the fourth quarters.

[TerranOP]

Wade is a washed up sidekick and is a disgrace to basketball, but he's still a great second option to have.

I thought you were a Lebron-hater. Why are you backing him up now?

[Heavincent]

I thought you were a Lebron-hater. Why are you backing him up now?

Can't argue with the ring.

[scm5]

Kobe

[Unstoppabull]

The Gap between Kobe and Gasol is far greater than the gap between Wade and LeBron.

Mind the Gap.

That being said, LeBron's run was just phenomenal, done on higher efficiency

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/mind-the-gap-7.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

As unbiased poster, I can't say Kobe really has an arguement over Lebron

[guy]

No. It's not clear, it's very, very close.

It can be clear, but still close. It's not that close IMO and there's really no measure or argument or combination of them that you can bring up in Kobe's favor. By any statistical measure, intangible observation, competition argument, or quality of teammates argument, there's none of that you can clearly put Kobe ahead of Lebron but you can vice versa or there's at least more arguments for Lebron.

[RaininTwos]

Clearly Lebron:oldlol:

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe went up against the dpoy. Lebron went up against who again?

[RaininTwos]

Kobe went up against the dpoy. Lebron went up against who again?
The DPOY:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DuMa]

The DPOY:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

kobe stans have no idea how to use the internet. take it easy on them.

[caliman]

Kobe went up against the dpoy. Lebron went up against who again?


Are you serious with that question?

[guy]

Kobe went up against the dpoy. Lebron went up against who again?

If Howard was actually guarding Kobe then he should've went for like 38 ppg/11 apg.

[che guevara]

The DPOY:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:oldlol: Forgot about Chandler in the first round?

Gotta love this Kobe stan bringing up the Magic, anyway. You know, the team Lebron averaged 39/8/8 on 50% against. What a scary defensive team. :roll:

[RRR3]

Not a good day for Kobe stans :oldlol:


Kobe went up against the dpoy. Lebron went up against who again?

Kobe.

09 celtics = one of the best defensive teams ever.


:roll: :roll: :roll:
http://i.imgur.com/FYy0e.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

It can be clear, but still close. It's not that close IMO and there's really no measure or argument or combination of them that you can bring up in Kobe's favor. By any statistical measure, intangible observation, competition argument, or quality of teammates argument, there's none of that you can clearly put Kobe ahead of Lebron but you can vice versa or there's at least more arguments for Lebron.

really? If we can't concede the teammates argument and wade and bosh being considerably better than gasol and lamar, as the stats show, then I don't really think a rational conversation is possible.

[SilkkTheShocker]

You know its bad when ripthekik is one of the smarter Kobe fans in a thread :oldlol:

[Bernie Nips]

really? If we can't concede the teammates argument and wade and bosh being considerably better than gasol and lamar, as the stats show, then I don't really think a rational conversation is possible.

So you're comparing the stats of a shooting guard and a dominant big man whose role is to rebound and play clean-up for Kobe's missed shots? If anything it proves all Kobe had to do was score, cos he had the help in other places.

LeBron didn't have that help, as he had to be his team's leading rebounder, not to mention leading in assists as well.

[RRR3]

So you're comparing the stats of a shooting guard and a dominant big man whose role is to rebound and play clean-up for Kobe's missed shots? If anything it proves all Kobe had to do was score, cos he had the help in other places.

LeBron didn't have that help, as he had to be his team's leading rebounder, not to mention leading in assists as well.
Yeah, but who hit more fadeaway falling-out-of-bounds hand down, man down three pointers? :coleman:

[red1]

Kobe went up against the dpoy. Lebron went up against who again?
:facepalm you just lost on multiple levels

[RazorBaLade]

So you're comparing the stats of a shooting guard and a dominant big man whose role is to rebound and play clean-up for Kobe's missed shots? If anything it proves all Kobe had to do was score, cos he had the help in other places.

LeBron didn't have that help, as he had to be his team's leading rebounder, not to mention leading in assists as well.

So we're comparing roles now? If there's a bench player who executes his 15 minutes a game role perfectly where as wade might not execute his 2nd option role perfectly and only scores 20 pts instead of 25 that means the bench player > wade? Because he executed his role better?

Kobe had worse players on his team. Thats all there is to it. Not by a supreme amount, but simply worse players. They had worse stats, they were worse. Kobes teammates were worse, and lebrons stats are what basically a little bit better in about 4 categories right? But kobe wins 4th quarters by a bit. Its freaking close.

[NuggetsFan]

Not a fan of either but LeBron. Really not a tough choice for me. I think anyway you slice it LeBron comes up on top. Not by a huge advantage but enough.

[eliteballer]

Best post on the matter:


Kobe averaged 40.9 MPG, Lebron averaged 42.7 MPG

Here are Lebron's stats per 40.9 MPG:

LBJ per 40.9..........Kobe
29.0 ppg..............30.2 ppg - Kobe
9.3 rpg.................5.3 rpg - Lebron
5.4 apg................5.5 apg - Kobe
1.8 spg................1.7 spg - Lebron
0.7 bpg................0.9 bpg - Kobe
3.4 to..................2.6 to - Kobe
57.6 ts%..............56.4 ts% - Lebron
50.0 fg%..............45.6 fg% - Lebron
25.9 3pt%............34.9 3pt% - Kobe
73.9 ft%..............88.3 ft% - Kobe

Heat's 4th Quarter/OT leading scorer: D-Wade
Laker's 4th Quarter/OT leading scorer: Kobe

Advantage: Kobe

PPG difference from 2nd best player
Kobe: 11.9
Lebron: 7.5

Advantage: Kobe

Kobe 8, Lebron 4

[DatAsh]

But kobe wins 4th quarters by a bit.

I don't know about that, and I mean that truthfully. What were the exact numbers?

Just from watching the games, Lebron seemed to have the more clutch performance overall, though I could be completely off base on that one.

Does anyone have the 4th quarter numbers?

[ripthekik]

As unbiased poster, I can't say Kobe really has an arguement over Lebron
Unbiased? says the Lebron = GOAT under your name :lol
Acting like a neutral to help lebron? but forgot you had it written? :oldlol:

AGAIN, PEOPLE TOTALLY UNDERESTIMATE HIS TEAM

what I posted:

When Bosh was out, heat was down. When Bosh came back, Heat started winning. Lebron MVP my ass.

3. Wade put up PRIMETIME numbers, 40 points shooting 17/25. A lot of 30+ games as well. This made celtics double team him, and Lebron has more space to do whatever. It allowed him to get his $tats.

4. Bynum was a hobbled scrub. You didn't watch the games.

Lebron fantards will never be able to face the fact that he could only have such a nice run because he's playing with 2 stars in their primes. Lebron himself will never be able to carry a team in a playoff run the way Kobe or even Dirk last year did.

This guy is unproven. He hasn't gotten over any hump. If you put him in a team to lead, he will choke again as well. He only did ok this time because he had 2 elder brothers looking over his back. Did he make any buzzer beaters/last second shots this playoffs? Didn't think so. If your team is down in the last seconds, and you have Lebron, you're losing. Thank goodness for his teammates, he was never put in such position. Otherwise, he would be exposed.

[RRR3]

Ripthekik=:mad:


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Ucantbserious/s2e36a.gif

[SilkkTheShocker]

Ripthekik=:mad:


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Ucantbserious/s2e36a.gif


Is that the Bad or Black and White music video?

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Inactive]

Best post on the matter:No, it's not. Kobe is benefiting from the way in which the categories are split up. Not to mention the assumption that their per minute production would stay constant, if their mpg changed. You'd expect that to favor the player who had fewer minutes, in most cases.


Having a higher ft%, or 3p% has no value, outside of the improved scoring efficiency that it provides.

Scoring efficiency (points scored per possession wasted shooting) Lebron .576 ts%, Kobe .564 ts%. Advantage: Lebron

Having fewer turnovers is meaningless, outside of the extra possessions it provides your team.

TRB+STL to TO ratio (i.e possessions created vs wasted without shooting) Lebron 3.3:1. Kobe 2.6:1. Advantage: Lebron.

PPG difference relative to a "sidekick" is irrelevant, unless it's meant to indicate the extent to which the "star" personally carried the team.

Percentage of team's overall production in the main stat categories Kobe: 29% of points, 13% of rebounds, 28% of assists
Lebron: 31% of points, 24% of rebounds, 32% of assists. Advantage: Lebron

Lebron 3, Kobe 0.

[RRR3]

Is that the Bad music video?

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
IDK I just remembered it being used on ISH once and it's a funny gif:oldlol:
Inb4 ripthekik goes on another rant about LeBron being a "Choker" :roll:

[Doctor Rivers]

Best post on the matter:

+1

[RazorBaLade]

I don't know about that, and I mean that truthfully. What were the exact numbers?

Just from watching the games, Lebron seemed to have the more clutch performance overall, though I could be completely off base on that one.

Does anyone have the 4th quarter numbers?

I have no idea how to find out =(

I just am going off memory as well. Hopefully someone has it.

[RazorBaLade]

No, it's not. Kobe is benefiting from the way in which the categories are split up. Not to mention the assumption that their per minute production would stay constant, if their mpg changed. You'd expect that to favor the player who had fewer minutes, in most cases.


Having a higher ft%, or 3p% has no value, outside of the improved scoring efficiency that it provides.

Scoring efficiency (points scored per possession wasted shooting) Lebron .576 ts%, Kobe .564 ts%. Advantage: Lebron

Having fewer turnovers is meaningless, outside of the extra possessions it provides your team.

TRB+STL to TO ratio (i.e possessions created vs wasted without shooting) Lebron 3.3:1. Kobe 2.6:1. Advantage: Lebron.

PPG difference relative to a "sidekick" is irrelevant, unless it's meant to indicate the extent to which the "star" personally carried the team.

Percentage of team's overall production in the main stat categories Kobe: 29% of points, 13% of rebounds, 28% of assists
Lebron: 31% of points, 24% of rebounds, 32% of assists. Advantage: Lebron

Lebron 3, Kobe 0.

kill yourself

[SilkkTheShocker]

IDK I just remembered it being used on ISH once and it's a funny gif:oldlol:
Inb4 ripthekik goes on another rant about LeBron being a "Choker" :roll:


The funny part is that I was just joking around by saying I was "unbiased" :oldlol: Dude took the bait, hook/line/sinker :oldlol: :oldlol:

[fpliii]

I think it's time to tally this up

should be Kobe in a landslide

[SilkkTheShocker]

kill yourself


Great arguement :applause: :applause: :applause:

Are you going to prove your next point by throwing your toys against the wall?

[RRR3]

kill yourself
http://i.minus.com/iM0ZAx7ZydNC3.gif

[RRR3]

Great arguement :applause: :applause: :applause:

Are you going to prove your next point by throwing your toys against the wall?
http://i36.tinypic.com/1ptcn5.jpg

[Doctor Rivers]

kill yourself

That's not nice.

[Doctor Rivers]

http://i36.tinypic.com/1ptcn5.jpg

Don't you get tired posting the same ole gifs? At least be original with your trolling.

[RazorBaLade]

nice gif rrr3 lol perfect


Great arguement :applause: :applause: :applause:

Are you going to prove your next point by throwing your toys against the wall?

What? He was obviously showing how stupid it is to split stats up for no apparent reason and showed its just as easy to make lebron win every category as it is to make kobe win em all. Just ignore points that you dont like, combine stats split them etc to make the person you want win.

It was obvious tho lol he didn't need to do it.

[Calabis]

Post your thoughts, argue, etc, but include a vote. Kobe or Lebron.

Here's the information you need:

Kobe: 30 5 6 in 41MPG. 46% fg, 56% TS.
Sidekick: 18 11 3 in 41MPG. 58% fg, 62% TS.

Lebron: 30 10 6 in 43MPG. 50% fg, 58% TS.
Sidekick: 23 5 4 in 39MPG. 46% fg, 53% TS.

I think u need more information than that

Kobe Teammates 2009: Bynum,Fisher,Odom,Ariza,Gasol

Playoff Prod Per Game(23):

56.2 PPG/29.8 Rebs/9.2 Ast/4.34 STLs/4.69 blks/49.07 FG%/68.04 FT%


Finals Prod Per Game(5):

60 PPG/30.2 Reb/7 Ast/5.2 Stl/5.2 blks/47.26 FG%/72.5 FT%



Lebrons Teammates 2012(Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Haslem, Battier) :

Playoff Production (23 *Bosh only 14 Games played, I did not adjust for his missed games, I'm sure these numbers would drop):

59.9 PPG/26.3 Reb/10.6 Ast/4.3 Stl/3.74 Blks/47.18 FG%/77.7 FG%

Finals Prod Per Game(5):

61.8 PPG/25.8 Reb/10.2 Ast/4.6 Stl/0.29 Blks/46.84 FG%/81.2 FT%

:facepalm

Kobetards with this theory that Lebron got 10x the help Kobe did:oldlol:

[Droid101]

Did LeBron have a series as good as Kobe vs. the Suns?

Serious question.

[RazorBaLade]

I think u need more information than that

Kobe Teammates 2009: Bynum,Fisher,Odom,Ariza,Gasol

Playoff Prod Per Game(23):

56.2 PPG/29.8 Rebs/9.2 Ast/4.34 STLs/4.69 blks/49.07 FG%/68.04 FT%


Finals Prod Per Game(5):

60 PPG/30.2 Reb/7 Ast/5.2 Stl/5.2 blks/47.26 FG%/72.5 FT%



Lebrons Teammates 2012(Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Haslem, Battier) :

Playoff Production (23 *Bosh only 14 Games played):

59.9 PPG/26.3 Reb/10.6 Ast/4.3 Stl/3.74 Blks/47.18 FG%/77.7 FG%

Finals Prod Per Game(5):

61.8 PPG/25.8 Reb/10.2 Ast/4.6 Stl/0.29 Blks/46.84 FG%/81.2 FT%

:facepalm

Kobetards with this theory that Lebron got 10x the help Kobe did:oldlol:

Is there a reason you noted bosh only had 14 games played but didn't do the same treatment for bynum? Either way, we know the heat are a worse team without bosh than with him. the point is during finals and during half the playoff run they did have them.

If you want to go and compare the games without him (wade chalmers haslem battier) to fisher odom gasol ariza feel free.. if u want to add both bynum and bosh and use that only fine.. But don't combine them and average them. It only lowers the heats production yet odesnt actually reflect the team they had during finals and big games in WCF.

[ripthekik]

IDK I just remembered it being used on ISH once and it's a funny gif:oldlol:
Inb4 ripthekik goes on another rant about LeBron being a "Choker" :roll:
I don't need to, everything I said's there, and no one's yet to rebut it yet. I have made tons of arguments on the last thread, and no lebron fan has the guts to own up yet.

This is a typical lebron fan:
throws insults and weak arguments and say Lebron = best
when they get defeated by argument, they DISAPPEAR or simply act like it didn't happen. :confusedshrug:



The funny part is that I was just joking around by saying I was "unbiased" :oldlol: Dude took the bait, hook/line/sinker :oldlol: :oldlol:
The funny part is you have to explain yourself :confusedshrug:
no one gives a damn, you got lebron posters all over your bedroom, and you're one of the biggest homers :confusedshrug:

Again:

When Bosh was out, heat was down. When Bosh came back, Heat started winning. Lebron MVP my ass.

3. Wade put up PRIMETIME numbers, 40 points shooting 17/25. A lot of 30+ games as well. This made celtics double team him, and Lebron has more space to do whatever. It allowed him to get his $tats.

4. Bynum was a hobbled scrub. You didn't watch the games.

Lebron fantards will never be able to face the fact that he could only have such a nice run because he's playing with 2 stars in their primes. Lebron himself will never be able to carry a team in a playoff run the way Kobe or even Dirk last year did.

This guy is unproven. He hasn't gotten over any hump. If you put him in a team to lead, he will choke again as well. He only did ok this time because he had 2 elder brothers looking over his back. Did he make any buzzer beaters/last second shots this playoffs? Didn't think so. If your team is down in the last seconds, and you have Lebron, you're losing. Thank goodness for his teammates, he was never put in such position. Otherwise, he would be exposed.

[StateOfMind12]

Is there a reason you noted bosh only had 14 games played but didn't do the same treatment for bynum?
Because Bynum played all the playoff games in the 2009 playoff run. Bynum was hurt in the regular season, not in the post-season. I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand. The comparison is between their post-season runs, not regular season or overall season run.

[Inactive]

nice gif rrr3 lol perfect



What? He was obviously showing how stupid it is to split stats up for no apparent reason and showed its just as easy to make lebron win every category as it is to make kobe win em all. Just ignore points that you dont like, combine stats split them etc to make the person you want win.

It was obvious tho lol he didn't need to do it.I'm sorry if it was too obvious to point out. I assumed that the praise for that post was genuine. The stats I used weren't just selected to ensure that Lebron would win though. I chose them, because they more accurately reflect the collective impact of those boxscore stats.

[RazorBaLade]

Because Bynum played all the playoff games in the 2009 playoff run. Bynum was hurt in the regular season, not in the post-season. I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand. The comparison is between their post-season runs, not regular season or overall season run.

He wasn't able to play much because he was injured. he didn't miss games but he was still injured. not fair to just remove boshes output for half the games but keep hobbled bynums in who had a few big games and raised avgs


I'm sorry if it was too obvious to point out. I assumed that the praise for that post was genuine. The stats I used weren't just selected to ensure that Lebron would win though. I chose them, because they more accurately reflect the collective impact of those boxscore stats.

to be honest it probably wasnt that obvious to most lolz.

[RRR3]

I only counted up votes of people who I thought gave a clear answer as to who they were in support of. If they said "it's close" etc., I didn't count it. If they just mentioned something w/o backing one side, I didn't count those either. Anyways...



LeBron: 46 votes
Kobe: 21


LeBron: ketchup, lordragoonx1x, second2nun, RoundMoundofReb, TerranOP, Stateofmind12, Mr.Bustly15A5RU8, DuMa, Quickening, LeBron23, DatAsh, Bernie Nips, RRR3, Crimzon, Smoke117, TheCorporation, dyna, Sakkreth,
AlonzoGOAT, SilkktheShocker, OmniStrife, raprap, OldSchoolBBall, guy, pauk, LBJ 23, Mirko Cro Cop, b4uc.23, LamarOdom, Bigsmoke, NOHCP3, staywhite, andgar923, kuniva_dAmighty, sic, caliman, Rnbizzle, Knoe Itawl, afrigokcen, Nash, Jax, asdf1990, Replay32, RaininTwos, NuggetsFan, Inactive



Kobe: fplii, scandisk_, ripthekik, ballsout, I LUV KOBE, Heavincent, Deuce Bigalow, Donnybrook, General, hangingintheair, TheeBeast, imdaman99, DirtySanchez, Rysio, Pegasus, BlueandGold, amfirst, keepinitreal, blablabla, Mr. Jabbar, scm5





LeBron running away with it so far.

[RRR3]

Don't you get tired posting the same ole gifs? At least be original with your trolling.
it's the best gif eve so I'll post as much as I damn well please:coleman:

[Calabis]

Because Bynum played all the playoff games in the 2009 playoff run. Bynum was hurt in the regular season, not in the post-season. I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand. The comparison is between their post-season runs, not regular season or overall season run.

Yeah he's reaching....I basically gave Bosh's avg over all 23 games....it would be to hard to pick a replacement worthy of the Kobetards approval.....even with the xtra credit Lebron did not get this legendary help they keep referring to

[RazorBaLade]

Yeah he's reaching....I basically gave Bosh's avg over all 23 games....it would be to hard to pick a replacement worthy of the Kobetards approval.....even with the xtra credit Lebron did not get this legendary help they keep referring to

Uh no, the most important games of the playoffs were played WITH bosh. Because you want the stats to be in heats favor you selected an average instead of allowing heat credit for bosh playing and doing much better than them. **** you.

All your post shows is with half the player bosh is the lakers and heat have about the same production. My point is made regardless.

[RRR3]

Uh no, the most important games of the playoffs were played WITH bosh. Because you want the stats to be in heats favor you selected an average instead of both teams at their best. **** you.
:no: You're the poll giver, supposed to be neutral

[RazorBaLade]

:no: You're the poll giver, supposed to be neutral

It really bugs me when people try to pull slimy crap to easier reach the result they want and think I won't notice.

I'll do a count of all the 200 posts and over right now, do expect lebron ina landslide tho.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

I think u need more information than that

Kobe Teammates 2009: Bynum,Fisher,Odom,Ariza,Gasol

Playoff Prod Per Game(23):

56.2 PPG/29.8 Rebs/9.2 Ast/4.34 STLs/4.69 blks/49.07 FG%/68.04 FT%


Finals Prod Per Game(5):

60 PPG/30.2 Reb/7 Ast/5.2 Stl/5.2 blks/47.26 FG%/72.5 FT%



Lebrons Teammates 2012(Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Haslem, Battier) :

Playoff Production (23 *Bosh only 14 Games played, I did not adjust for his missed games, I'm sure these numbers would drop):

59.9 PPG/26.3 Reb/10.6 Ast/4.3 Stl/3.74 Blks/47.18 FG%/77.7 FG%

Finals Prod Per Game(5):

61.8 PPG/25.8 Reb/10.2 Ast/4.6 Stl/0.29 Blks/46.84 FG%/81.2 FT%

:facepalm

Kobetards with this theory that Lebron got 10x the help Kobe did:oldlol:

doesn't even show the intangibles kobe's big men gave the lakers like how many shots they alter even without blocking and what their size brings to the table

it's not about how good the individual players are it's about how they fit together and in that sense i'd argue kobe had no less help than lebron arguably even more because of the scarcity of good big men

[TheeBeast]

I think u need more information than that

Kobe Teammates 2009: Bynum,Fisher,Odom,Ariza,Gasol

Playoff Prod Per Game(23):

56.2 PPG/29.8 Rebs/9.2 Ast/4.34 STLs/4.69 blks/49.07 FG%/68.04 FT%


Finals Prod Per Game(5):

60 PPG/30.2 Reb/7 Ast/5.2 Stl/5.2 blks/47.26 FG%/72.5 FT%



Lebrons Teammates 2012(Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Haslem, Battier) :

Playoff Production (23 *Bosh only 14 Games played, I did not adjust for his missed games, I'm sure these numbers would drop):

59.9 PPG/26.3 Reb/10.6 Ast/4.3 Stl/3.74 Blks/47.18 FG%/77.7 FG%

Finals Prod Per Game(5):

61.8 PPG/25.8 Reb/10.2 Ast/4.6 Stl/0.29 Blks/46.84 FG%/81.2 FT%

:facepalm

Kobetards with this theory that Lebron got 10x the help Kobe did:oldlol:

Never claimed that Lebron got more help, and whoever said he got 10x more help is obviously a moron who shouldn't be listened to.

The only real difference I see between the two surrounding teams (stat wise) is the blocks per game. This goes to prove that Kobe, while he played, had more of an impact than Lebron.

How? Well lets go back to my previous post in a different thread...



Kobe VS. Magic- Def Rtg: 101.9 (1st of 30) Opp PTS/G: 94.4 (6th of 30)


Lebron VS. Thunder- Def Rtg: 103.2 (11th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 96.9 (17th of 30)

Finals per game:

Kobe:
32/5.6/7.4/ 1.4 blk

.43fg% .36 3p%

Lebron:
28.6/10/7.4/ .3 blk

.472 fg% .188 3p%

Lebron is a 6'9 SF so rebounds can't be complained about

Total points and assists in playoffs:

Kobe Bryant:
695 total points
126 total assists
on 940 minutes played

LeBron James:
697 total points (+2 points more than Kobe)
129 total assists (+3 more assists than Kobe)
on 983 minutes played

Lebron James Played 43 minutes longer than Kobe and only made 2 more points, 3more assists

There you have it... Kobe made almost equal stats while playing almost a whole 48 minute game less than Lebron. Kobe could have easily defeated him in the stats if he had as much minutes as Lebron was given.

[abuC]

I can't even believe this has this many replies, LeBron by a mile.

[ripthekik]

LeBron: ketchup, lordragoonx1x, second2nun, RoundMoundofReb, TerranOP, Stateofmind12, Mr.Bustly15A5RU8, DuMa, Quickening, LeBron23, DatAsh, Bernie Nips, RRR3, Crimzon, Smoke117, TheCorporation, dyna, Sakkreth,
AlonzoGOAT, SilkktheShocke, OmniStrife, raprap, OldSchoolBBall, guy, pauk, LBJ 23, Mirko Cro Cop, b4uc.23, LamarOdom, Bigsmoke, NOHCP3, staywhite, andgar923, kuniva_dAmighty, sic, caliman, Rnbizzle, Knoe Itawl, afrigokcen, Nash, Jax, asdf1990, Replay32, RaininTwos, NuggetsFan, Inactive
.
Wow, WITHOUT even have to look at their post/avatar/title, just from these names i recognized the biggest lebron/heat homers on this site already :oldlol:

congrats, you guys got more fans here after winning the championship. :applause:

[RazorBaLade]

It'd probably take a 2nd count to make sure I didn't miss anyone but with no 200 and under accounts but I am not gonna do that lol.

Kobe: 20
Lebron: 25

I am counting those who did say it was close as well as clear. I'm sure I missed some individual posters but the fans of either of these guys can blame themselves for making all these other blatant 2nd accounts. I still had to count some suspect ones though.

It's hard to say who's really a neutral fan, like DUMA is technically not a fan of either team but we know hes a kobe hater and lebron lover so he isn't really a neutral. That pheonix guy, cant remember his name, is technically neutral as well, a phx fan but he had/has lebron in his avi and saw Kobe make nash cry just a short 2 years ago so again neutral vote on this site is hard to come by lol.

[RRR3]

Wow, WITHOUT even have to look at their post/avatar/title, just from these names i recognized the biggest lebron/heat homers on this site already :oldlol:

congrats, you guys got more fans here after winning the championship. :applause:
Kobe: fplii, scandisk_, ripthekik, ballsout, I LUV KOBE, Heavincent, Deuce Bigalow, Donnybrook, General, hangingintheair, TheeBeast, imdaman99, DirtySanchez, Rysio, Pegasus, BlueandGold, amfirst, keepinitreal, blablabla, Mr. Jabbar, scm5



All known Kobe homers and/or LeBron haters. :confusedshrug: That's what, seven legitimate votes?

[lefthook00]

Kobe's stats went up in the Finals, LeBron's went down.

[TheeBeast]

A poll of 50 or 100 people is nothing...

The two playoff runs were so close, stat wise, that nobody here could say either had a way better run. All I see is Kobe won his 5th on a different cast of players than his previous 3peat while Lebron won his first after failing in the playoffs his whole career. To win a 1st championship by joining forces with a top 5 player in Dwayne Wade who already won a championship how could that be better than a playoff run that says "Been here done that, guess what? here I am again!!". Kobe's was much more sweeter.

[Segatti]

Kobe: fplii, scandisk_, ripthekik, ballsout, I LUV KOBE, Heavincent, Deuce Bigalow, Donnybrook, General, hangingintheair, TheeBeast, imdaman99, DirtySanchez, Rysio, Pegasus, BlueandGold, amfirst, keepinitreal, blablabla, Mr. Jabbar, scm5



All known Kobe homers and/or LeBron haters. :confusedshrug: That's what, seven legitimate votes?
Yeah because the likes of you or pauk, or the other clowns saying Lebron's finals are better than Timmy's in 03 are totally unbiased :lol

[ripthekik]

Some here want to tell me that Lebron can do it without Bosh or Wade?

-Without Bosh: down to Pacers, Celtics = not coincident. Remember when they went into panic mode and had to bring him up out no matter what?

-Without Wade: this guy provide huge time numbers.. came to the rescue in his prime at any moment of the game. 40pts 17/25

Without these 2 stars in their prime, Lebron win? No, he'll put up his huge stats, and get kicked out of playoffs as usual. We established Lebron need's 2 stars in their primes to win, not to mention a top S2 SG.

Kobe? the only one you can say he won't win without is Pau. Bynum was nonexistent, avging 7 points 6 rebounds in the finals, which were 4th and 6th in his team. Anyone really WATCHED the games want to tell me he did anything instead of just talking his name and saying he did?

[RRR3]

Yeah because the likes of you or pauk, or the other clowns saying Lebron's finals are better than Timmy's in 03 are totally unbiased :lol
He already made a post saying that, I was responding to it. Try to keep up now

[RazorBaLade]

We know lebron has better stats. We know kobe has worse teammates.

Competition could potentially be the tiebreaker.

[TheeBeast]

We know lebron has better stats. We know kobe has worse teammates.

Competition could potentially be the tiebreaker.

That's an easy one. Kobe beats Lebron in competitiveness by 100 miles :sleeping

[Indian guy]

Tallied Kobe, LeBron and Wade's 4th quarter numbers in their championship run. Over Time included.

Kobe (2009) 8 ppg on 41% shooting
LeBron (2012) 7.5 ppg on 44% shooting
Wade (2012) 6.9 ppg on 51% shooting

[RazorBaLade]

Tallied Kobe, LeBron and Wade's 4th quarter numbers in their championship run. Over Time included.

Kobe (2009) 8 ppg on 41% shooting
LeBron (2012) 7.5 ppg on 44% shooting
Wade (2012) 6.9 ppg on 51% shooting

nice nice. Can you do finals as well.

[guy]

really? If we can't concede the teammates argument and wade and bosh being considerably better than gasol and lamar, as the stats show, then I don't really think a rational conversation is possible.

They weren't considerably better then them. I'd agree that they're better, but not considerably. However, when I'm talking about quality of teammates, I'm talking about what they were able to contribute during the run, so with that being the case you absolutely have to take into account the fact that Bosh missed the majority of 2 series where they were facing legit competition. Seriously whats better? Wade for 23 games + Bosh for 14 games or Gasol for 23 games + Odom for 23 games? I don't see how thats even a contest.

[D-Wade316]

Tallied Kobe, LeBron and Wade's 4th quarter numbers in their championship run. Over Time included.

Kobe (2009) 8 ppg on 41% shooting
LeBron (2012) 7.5 ppg on 44% shooting
Wade (2012) 6.9 ppg on 51% shooting
Can you break this down by series?

[guy]

Best post on the matter:

So we're just going to ignore that Lebron was able to play more minutes? We just randomly dock Lebron for his production just cause he played more minutes? If a player played more minutes and contributed more as a result, he still contributed more regardless of the fact that he played more minutes. Kobe doesn't get credit for make-believe stats that he may or may not have put up if he played the same minutes. For all we know, had he played the same minutes as Lebron, he could've completely got gassed by the Finals and they would've lost.

[cteach111]

So we're just going to ignore that Lebron was able to play more minutes? We just randomly dock Lebron for his production just cause he played more minutes? If a player played more minutes and contributed more as a result, he still contributed more regardless of the fact that he played more minutes. Kobe doesn't get credit for make-believe stats that he may or may not have put up if he played the same minutes. For all we know, had he played the same minutes as Lebron, he could've completely got gassed by the Finals and they would've lost.

guy, where do you rank Lebron's playoff run all-time?

[DirtySanchez]

Kobe

[guy]

I really don't see how this is a contest. After Lebron's run, respected journalists, former players, and analysts were calling his run one of the greatest ever. There was absolutely no talk like that after Kobe's run. And no, its not cause the media purposefully wants to shove Lebron down our throats, because they purposefully have always shoved Kobe down our throats as well. I don't even remember Kobe fans hyping his 09 run that much. There's a reason why when all these lists about greatest playoff runs, greatest playoff performances, greatest series, etc. come up that Kobe isn't listed that much. Its cause he's really not as great of a playoff performer as alot of people make him out to be. Even the media thats wanted to call him the next Jordan for over a decade now can't overhype that.

[guy]

guy, where do you rank Lebron's playoff run all-time?

I don't know. As far as more recent history goes, probably at least behind Jordan's first three-peat, Hakeem's back-to-back, Shaq's first 2, and Duncan's 03.

[TheeBeast]

So we're just going to ignore that Lebron was able to play more minutes? We just randomly dock Lebron for his production just cause he played more minutes? If a player played more minutes and contributed more as a result, he still contributed more regardless of the fact that he played more minutes. Kobe doesn't get credit for make-believe stats that he may or may not have put up if he played the same minutes. For all we know, had he played the same minutes as Lebron, he could've completely got gassed by the Finals and they would've lost.


In total Lebron produced 2 points and 3 assists more than Kobe Bryant in his playoff run. That was off 43minutes he played longer than Kobe. That's such a small difference that you can't even use it as a valid argument.

[guy]

In total Lebron produced 2 points and 3 assists more than Kobe Bryant in his playoff run. That was off 43minutes he played longer than Kobe. That's such a small difference that you can't even use it as a valid argument.

Okay, but I don't think people are really using his .1+ ppg and .1+ apg as a huge reason for why it was better.

[noosaman]

Nether run was impressive but lebron had the weakest championship run in NBA history so only due to that kobe wins by default.

also when he sat out the final minute and change of game 4 of the Finals and the Heat proceeded to rape the Thunder showed that he isn't all that valuable to his team

[cteach111]

I don't know. As far as more recent history goes, probably at least behind Jordan's first three-peat, Hakeem's back-to-back, Shaq's first 2, and Duncan's 03.

That's sort of what I had in mind.. I'm thinking he's in the mix with Bird's and Magic's runs, but you can make the obvious case that he separates himself from them because of his defense.

He has more in common with the players that were capable of playing both ends of the floor at a high level.

IMO, Kobe's runs would have been held in a higher regard if he hadn't fallen off on the defensive end by this point, but that's not the case here.

It seems to be that there are 2 types of runs that players could be capable of: the do-it-all type of runs that you see from Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Wilt?, etc. and then the runs where the players have a reduced (more concentrated) role on the team. The later is the bucket 96-98 Jordan falls into, Kobe 09-10 runs, Bird and Magic's runs (although they are a tad closer to the first group because they had some truly exceptional runs on the offense end of the floor), etc.

Kobe's runs were solid, but he definitely falls into the 2nd type of finals run whereas James fell more into the 1st type of run. James was simply capable of doing more on the court.

I think I dragged out this discussion long enough, but yeah.. you obviously take James' run over Kobe's.

[TheeBeast]

Okay, but I don't think people are really using his .1+ ppg and .1+ apg as a huge reason for why it was better.

Actually that's 2 points total, its not even gonna be .1ppg greater

Are we going off who was more entertaining? To me that's purely opinion, but the fact that Kobe just went out there and competed and attacked more makes me feel Kobe's run was much more fun to watch.


Lebron isn't even close to Kobe in creating shots, his footwork out there was unmatchable. These teams designed their entire defensive schemes to defend Kobe.

[RazorBaLade]

They weren't considerably better then them. I'd agree that they're better, but not considerably. However, when I'm talking about quality of teammates, I'm talking about what they were able to contribute during the run, so with that being the case you absolutely have to take into account the fact that Bosh missed the majority of 2 series where they were facing legit competition. Seriously whats better? Wade for 23 games + Bosh for 14 games or Gasol for 23 games + Odom for 23 games? I don't see how thats even a contest.

Agreed, its not considerably better but neither are the stats. Lebron has better stats but not considerably either. It has to be close.

Yes you have to factor in bosh missing 2 series, but cmon, he missed the first 2 rounds. He played the last 7 games of the playoffs. And he did WELL! Were the pacers or phi better than even like utah? Gotta factor in competition those first 2 rounds. Plus he had wade there. Kobe losing his 3rd option is a more crushing blow than heat losing bosh, that also says kobes team is worse.

It isn't a huge advantage to lebrons cast, Its just a clear one. Just as how lebrons stats are clearly better, just not by a lot.

I just think its a lot closer than some people are saying. It is reflected in the votes when I removed all the new accounts, its what like 20-17 right now in favor of lebron? I think that shows how close it really is.

[guy]

Actually that's 2 points total, its not even gonna be .1ppg greater

Are we going off who was more entertaining? To me that's purely opinion, but the fact that Kobe just went out there and competed and attacked more makes me feel Kobe's run was much more fun to watch.


Lebron isn't even close to Kobe in creating shots, his footwork out there was unmatchable. These teams designed there defensive schemes to defend Kobe

Its .1 unless you're literally trying to do the exact math.

Huh? Lebron didn't attack? Lebron attacked the whole time. I'm not going by whats more entertaining. I'm going by what was better and more effective. Lebron was a comparable scorer, better defender, better rebounder, better passer, was able to create more for his teammates due to his ability to draw defenses with his drives, had greater games and moments in moments of adversity,etc.

[StateOfMind12]

Its .1 unless you're literally trying to do the exact math.

Huh? Lebron didn't attack? Lebron attacked the whole time. I'm not going by whats more entertaining. I'm going by what was better and more effective. Lebron was a comparable scorer, better defender, better rebounder, better passer, was able to create more for his teammates due to his ability to draw defenses with his drives, had greater games and moments in moments of adversity,etc.
Kobe didn't face any adversity at all in that run. The closest adversity he faced was in the Rockets series when it went to a Game 7 but truthfully it only went to a Game 7 because they were just dicking around, thinking the Rockets would just roll over because Yao was out for the series. There is a reason why the Lakers completely murdered the Rockets in that Game 7 and it was because they were finally focused.

Kobe's playoff run in 2009 was honestly a cake walk to the championship. I feel like you could probably argue that his 2010 run was better than his 2009 run.

[RazorBaLade]

Its .1 unless you're literally trying to do the exact math.

Huh? Lebron didn't attack? Lebron attacked the whole time. I'm not going by whats more entertaining. I'm going by what was better and more effective. Lebron was a comparable scorer, better defender, better rebounder, better passer, was able to create more for his teammates due to his ability to draw defenses with his drives, had greater games and moments in moments of adversity,etc.

By a small moment in every category, as were lebrons teammates better than kobes. Just have to decide what matters to you most when judging a run.

[TheeBeast]

Its .1 unless you're literally trying to do the exact math.

Huh? Lebron didn't attack? Lebron attacked the whole time. I'm not going by whats more entertaining. I'm going by what was better and more effective. Lebron was a comparable scorer, better defender, better rebounder, better passer, was able to create more for his teammates due to his ability to draw defenses with his drives, had greater games and moments in moments of adversity,etc.

Better passer in these two playoff runs is highly arguable, they had the same amount of assists per game. Kobe was the better scorer and a great defender, he also made more blocks per game.

Basically the rest of what you said is based on opinion, its all subjective...

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe didn't face any adversity at all in that run. The closest adversity he faced was in the Rockets series when it went to a Game 7 but truthfully it only went to a Game 7 because they were just dicking around, thinking the Rockets would just roll over because Yao was out for the series. There is a reason why the Lakers completely murdered the Rockets in that Game 7, they were finally focused.

Kobe's playoff run in 2009 was honestly a cake walk to the championship. I feel like you could probably argue that his 2010 run was better than his 2009 run.

Not as good as lebrons year adversity wise, no doubt, or as 2010, but it had moments imo.

2-2 with nugs and kobe obliterating them from that point.. melo was hanging with kobe and then BAM next 2 games. Game 1 of finals was amazing performance by kobe. Wins without shaq. It was alright.

2010 was cool tho, phx shots at end of games alone beats 09 for me.

[RazorBaLade]

I think it can be mentioned that Lebron put up 40 2 times in the playoffs.

Kobe put up 40 or more 4 times.

34 or more?

Lebron 4 times. Kobe 7 times.

I did it at 34 instead of 35 cuz lebron had 34 twice so idk I'm iffy with a cutoff like 35.

Still tho, pretty nice. The more I look at it I think with mpg included and such, kobe has an advantage in scoring. Slight, of course.

[TheeBeast]

I think it can be mentioned that Lebron put up 40 2 times in the playoffs.

Kobe put up 40 or more 4 times.

34 or more?

Lebron 4 times. Kobe 7 times.

I did it at 34 instead of 35 cuz lebron had 34 twice so idk I'm iffy with a cutoff like 35.

Still tho, pretty nice. The more I look at it I think with mpg included and such, kobe has an advantage in scoring. Slight, of course.


Double the amount of 40 point games almost double the amount of 34 point games.

Now that's a show.

[Bernie Nips]

Bosh averaged 14/7 in the playoffs in 2012 and only played half the games.

Odom averaged 15.6/9.6 in the playoffs in 2009 and was there for every game.

But apparently Bosh was more help. Cool man.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think it can be mentioned that Lebron put up 40 2 times in the playoffs.

Kobe put up 40 or more 4 times.

34 or more?

Lebron 4 times. Kobe 7 times.

I did it at 34 instead of 35 cuz lebron had 34 twice so idk I'm iffy with a cutoff like 35.

Still tho, pretty nice. The more I look at it I think with mpg included and such, kobe has an advantage in scoring. Slight, of course.
4 40 pt games :bowdown:
1 of them in the Finals :bowdown: