"How overrated is Kyrie Irving???" -PleezeBelieve

[KG215]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216885

April 06, 2011

Off the top of my head, the Cavs and Raps fanbases have convinced themselves that this guy is Jesus in a point guard jersey. They actually want to tank and trade established NBA players just for the best opportunity to draft this dude.

Don't ask me how, but its a fact.

Now moving on... when's the last time a prospect received so much hype for basically doing nothing?? Duke won the championship with the same team he re-joined and basically stymied ball movement in the loss against Arizona.

The guy is a 6'1 attacking, scoring guard that many have convinced themsleves is the best point guard prospect since Jason Kidd.

What the hell are people smoking, man???


N*gga, I'm a prophet with this sh*t. Go ask about me. I'm never wrong.

Now, a little over one year later, Cleveland is going to have the best backcourt in the NBA with a rookie starting at SG and Irving.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[maybeshewill13]

Irving is a baws :bowdown:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

That guy is a clear troll. At least I hope so because someone shouldn't be that stupid.

[9erempiree]

Irving is a decent player and nothing special. He's going to be a starter in this league. I compare him to OJ Mayo. A decent starter on any team but nothing special.

I think people's love for Irving came when he did that commercial as some old guy. That helped his image and overrated him.

You didn't hear much about Irving till he made that commercial and now people are talking about him.

[EnoughSaid]

Irving is a decent player and nothing special. He's going to be a starter in this league. I compare him to OJ Mayo. A decent starter on any team but nothing special.

I think people's love for Irving came when he did that commercial as some old guy. That helped his image and overrated him.

You didn't hear much about Irving till he made that commercial and now people are talking about him.

What? Nothing special? :roll: This dude has SUPERSTAR potential. I can see him being the best PG in the game in a couple of years.

[9erempiree]

What? Nothing special? :roll: This dude has SUPERSTAR potential. I can see him being the best PG in the game in a couple of years.

Nobody even thinks what you are thinking during the season but since that commercial came out....people are all over him.

Like I said, he will be a starting PG in this league and that's it. A couple of all stars and that's it.

[maybeshewill13]

Irving is a decent player and nothing special. He's going to be a starter in this league. I compare him to OJ Mayo. A decent starter on any team but nothing special.

I think people's love for Irving came when he did that commercial as some old guy. That helped his image and overrated him.

You didn't hear much about Irving till he made that commercial and now people are talking about him.

Come on man, Irving had be getting plenty of props on this board before that commercial.. Dude was super clutch all season and it was
mentioned a lot. He's going to be an all-star at some point of his career IMO. Top 4 PG in a few years.

[Al Thornton]

You didn't hear much about Irving till he made that commercial and now people are talking about him.

yes there was, what are you talking about?

[EnoughSaid]

Nobody even thinks what you are thinking during the season but since that commercial came out....people are all over him.

Like I said, he will be a starting PG in this league and that's it. A couple of all stars and that's it.

People were hyping him way before the season started. He was talked about a lot during the season and especially after he won the ROY.

[marion706]

irving might be better than cp3 soon

[9erempiree]

irving might be better than cp3 soon


Now I know you guys are trolling.

He's an average passer....just another one of these score first PG's of this era...minus the athletic ability.

[Crimzon]

Now I know you guys are trolling.

He's an average passer....just another one of these score first PG's of this era...minus the athletic ability.

Is this another PleezeBelieve account? :facepalm

[flipogb]

I can understand why an OKC fan won't appreciate a player like Kyrie

[9erempiree]

Is this another PleezeBelieve account? :facepalm

as much as I would love to take credit of whomever this guy is...no, I am not him.

[I<3NBA]

Now I know you guys are trolling.

He's an average passer....just another one of these score first PG's of this era...minus the athletic ability.
did you watch the all star rookie game?

[Jameerthefear]

Im going to pray you are trolling if not, you're just batsh1t retarded

[tpols]

Now I know you guys are trolling.

He's an average passer....just another one of these score first PG's of this era...minus the athletic ability.
Hes got one of the most in control games in the league.. his handles, finishing, penetrating are so smooth its like hes got the ball on a string. And his decision making is incredible for a young player. Wait til next year.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Did somebody in here really just compare Kyrie Irving to Oj Mayo?
:roll:

:coleman:

[marion706]

Now I know you guys are trolling.

He's an average passer....just another one of these score first PG's of this era...minus the athletic ability.
:coleman:

[LBJMVP]

Irving is a decent player and nothing special. He's going to be a starter in this league. I compare him to OJ Mayo. A decent starter on any team but nothing special.

I think people's love for Irving came when he did that commercial as some old guy. That helped his image and overrated him.

You didn't hear much about Irving till he made that commercial and now people are talking about him.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

irving had one of the best rookie pg seasons of all time


probly top 3-5

statically he was the clutches offensive player in the league


in the month of february where he was at his peak he was averaging

20/7/5

potential to be the best point guard in the league.


you are the biggest troll ever if serious.

[LBJMVP]

Now I know you guys are trolling.

He's an average passer....just another one of these score first PG's of this era...minus the athletic ability.


can you name the best shooter on cleveland team?

not a good passer :lol

your stupid as hell.

[9erempiree]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

irving had one of the best rookie pg seasons of all time


probly top 3-5

statically he was the clutches offensive player in the league


in the month of february where he was at his peak he was averaging

20/7/5

potential to be the best point guard in the league.


you are the biggest troll ever if serious.

Tyreke Evans said hi. 20 5 5

lol @ greatest rookie PG season.

[Maniak]

Tyreke Evans said hi. 20 5 5

lol @ greatest rookie PG season.
You're dumb and wrong. Shut the **** up.

Irving has been receiving praise on ISH all season long.

[9erempiree]

also, I can name more....

[LBJMVP]

Tyreke Evans said hi. 20 5 5

lol @ greatest rookie PG season.


worst comparison ever


:lol :lol :lol

[9erempiree]

You're dumb and wrong. Shut the **** up.

Irving has been receiving praise on ISH all season long.

Now I know you are full of it.

So Kyrie had a better season than Tyreke?

ROFL

You guys are dumb and I don't usually call people names or insult them on message boards.

[LBJMVP]

Now I know you are full of it.

So Kyrie had a better season than Tyreke?

ROFL

You guys are dumb and I don't usually call people names or insult them on message boards.


easily had a better season

way more efficient, clutcher... better scorer, had a way bigger impact on every game.

if you deny any of that, then you simply didnt watch the games.

[Maniak]

Now I know you are full of it.

So Kyrie had a better season than Tyreke?

ROFL

You guys are dumb and I don't usually call people names or insult them on message boards.
I was saying you're wrong about Kyrie only getting praise after a commercial. That's just false.

Him and Tyreke are pretty equal, although I'd rather have Irving.

[irondarts]

Now I know you are full of it.

So Kyrie had a better season than Tyreke?

ROFL

You guys are dumb and I don't usually call people names or insult them on message boards.
Why don't you watch the games instead of just looking at the box scores. Kyrie's rookie season was better than Tyrekes. And Kyrie is the better player by a mile.

[dunksby]

as much as I would love to take credit of whomever this guy is...no, I am not him.
Damn PB is so embarrassed about those idiotic remarks he is too afraid to post under his own handle :roll:

[9erempiree]

easily had a better season

way more efficient, clutcher... better scorer, had a way bigger impact on every game.

if you deny any of that, then you simply didnt watch the games.

20 5 5 is better than 18 3 5

Kings 29 -57 winning at 35%

Cavs 21-45 winning at 31 %


All things point to Tyreke having the better year. So please stop overrating Kyrie because he did a commercial.

[maybeshewill13]

I can understand why an OKC fan won't appreciate a player like Kyrie

I'm a huge Kyrie fan.. Take that ignorant bull **** elsewhere.

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie is indisputably an elite level player. Didn't he have the highest 4th quarter scoring average league-wide?

Everyone is wrong sometimes w/ their predictions though, no?

[NuggetsFan]

You're dumb and wrong. Shut the **** up.

Irving has been receiving praise on ISH all season long.

He's wrong about Irving being another Mayo, IMO anyways. Don't see why he's catching all this shit tho, esp the post you quoted. Mayo did like 18.5 points a game with 4 boards 3 dimes. Obviously not Irving territory as he really lacked the efficiency but nothing to hang your head at. Had tons of hype.

'Reke the guy whom you flipped at for using put up a season that only guy's like MJ, LeBron, Oscar did. 20-5-5 numbers. Both players were on a lottery team going nowhere. Evans was looking like a D-Wade out there. Irving plays a beautiful game. Really in control and really mature. He's pretty advanced as a shooter as well. For those reasons I don't think he'll regress like an OJ Mayo or 'Reke. I can understand somebody believing his potential isn't as high as others.

Point is OJ becoming a bench player throwing up 11 ppg was outta nowhere. I'm sure there was people who seen it coming but if you said that after his rookie year you would have been laughed at. He had a f*ck load more hype than Irving before college. People had him right there behind Rose.

I disagree with his opinion but really who knows.

[Meticode]

Tyreke Evans said hi. 20 5 5

lol @ greatest rookie PG season.
Yes Irving had a better rookie season that Evans. Here's why...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=irvinky01&y1=2012&p2=evansty01&y2=2010

Irving was simply more efficient and played more than half a quarter less per game than Evans did his rookie season. It's plain and simple to see the numbered when you compare them to per 36 numbers.

I'm not here to say that Irving is going to be the best point guard in the league soon or things of that sort. See I'm a realest when it comes to things like this. Does Irving have the potential to be a star in the league? Hell yes he does. Will he be a top point guard or a star? Only time will tell.

[irondarts]

20 5 5 is better than 18 3 5

Kings 29 -57 winning at 35%

Cavs 21-45 winning at 31 %


All things point to Tyreke having the better year. So please stop overrating Kyrie because he did a commercial.
But Tyreke played 37.2 MPG, Kyrie only played 30.5 MPG, If Kyrie played the same MPG as Tyreke did he'd average about 22 ppg/6.5 apg/4.5 rpg on better shooting %

[dunksby]

I can understand why an OKC fan won't appreciate a player like Kyrie
http://piryow.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pVrY8EK8Uxda0V5PFRNS8jHeYKndM8nwLsGwMcKAhs0QsEYv hAzPzub3FWrPKdv8M_XSUtZDtAWGFFwXTCgXYvQ/lol%20wut%20in%20hands.png

[LBJMVP]

20 5 5 is better than 18 3 5

Kings 29 -57 winning at 35%

Cavs 21-45 winning at 31 %


All things point to Tyreke having the better year. So please stop overrating Kyrie because he did a commercial.


you didnt take into account anything i put

kyrie was more efficient, had a bigger impact on games, way clutcher, better passer, better ball handling.

cavs second best player was out for more than half the year, the whole team was riddled with injuries

and we sat kyrie for an extended period as well.

we were a playoff team before varajoe was hurt.

[LBJMVP]

Kyrie is indisputably an elite level player. Didn't he have the highest 4th quarter scoring average league-wide?

Everyone is wrong sometimes w/ their predictions though, no?


i think he was third, but he lead the league in all offensive clutch stats which is a game that is within five points with 5 minutes less.

[Umad101]

Irving is a decent player and nothing special. He's going to be a starter in this league. I compare him to OJ Mayo. A decent starter on any team but nothing special.

I think people's love for Irving came when he did that commercial as some old guy. That helped his image and overrated him.

You didn't hear much about Irving till he made that commercial and now people are talking about him.
Dude will be cp3 2.0 in 3 yrs

[Fiasco]

Dude will be cp3 2.0 in 3 yrs

LOL

[9erempiree]

I expect Cavs fan to jock Kyrie to Mars because of the Lebron James debacle and now they got their #1 pick boy. It's natural to hype him up and bring up all these statistics to back up Kyrie.

Cavs fans are use to it and it comes as no surprise Cavs fans are at it once again with their advanced statistics to backup Kyrie. This is what you guys did with Lebron.

Let's face it...the thread was asking if he's overrated. As of right now...Yes. You guys are only hyping him because of the pretty cool commercial he did it and you guys just drafted a running mate for him.

Nothing new...same ole...same ole...advanced statistics to hype a Cavs player.

[LBJMVP]

I expect Cavs fan to jock Kyrie to Mars because of the Lebron James debacle and now they got their #1 pick boy. It's natural to hype him up and bring up all these statistics to back up Kyrie.

Cavs fans are use to it and it comes as no surprise Cavs fans are at it once again with their advanced statistics to backup Kyrie. This is what you guys did with Lebron.

Let's face it...the thread was asking if he's overrated. As of right now...Yes. You guys are only hyping him because of the pretty cool commercial he did it and you guys just drafted a running mate for him.

Nothing new...same ole...same ole...advanced statistics to hype a Cavs player.


you sound like some pissed off minnesota fan who got stuck drafting derrick williams.

comparing kyrie to oj mayo and tyreke evan is obvious trolling since he is obviously better than both.

plus the fact that you think people just started talking about him since the commercial... ISH was always talking about how he was the undisputed ROY all season....

[FatComputerNerd]

Apparently the majority of the posters in this thread didn't watch many Cavs games this past season, lol.

He's already earned the nickname "Mr 4th Quarter".

[9erempiree]

you sound like some pissed off minnesota fan who got stuck drafting derrick williams.

comparing kyrie to oj mayo and tyreke evan is obvious trolling since he is obviously better than both.

plus the fact that you think people just started talking about him since the commercial... ISH was always talking about how he was the undisputed ROY all season....

So I'm trolling because I compared him to Tyreke?

Tyreke had a better year and you had to bring up "advanced" statistics.

Comparing him to Mayo and Tyreke is pretty accurate so don't get mad. You want me to start comparing him to CP3?

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie = Clutch

[Maniak]

9er why do you keep on ignoring the fact you were completely wrong about him only being popular since his commercial?

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie tearing it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgpXwCiRxgg&t=1m16s

[LBJMVP]

So I'm trolling because I compared him to Tyreke?

Tyreke had a better year and you had to bring up "advanced" statistics.

Comparing him to Mayo and Tyreke is pretty accurate so don't get mad. You want me to start comparing him to CP3?


advanced stats?

i said kyrie was more efficent, a better passer, a better scoring, a better ball handling, way more clutch...

those aren't advanced stats. advanced stats would be saying that kyrie had a PER of 21.5 which was better than derrick rose (16.05) and tyreke Evans (18.3) in their rookie years

that would be advanced statistics.


as a mentioned before kyrie is already superior to oj mayo and tyreke is practically every aspect of the game except rebounding.

[Punpun]

i said kyrie was more efficent, a better passer, a better scoring, a better ball handling, way more clutch...



20-5-5. Better statistical season than Kyrie's.

[LBJMVP]

20-5-5. Better statistical season than Kyrie's.

so tyreke scored 2 more points had less assists and less than 2 more rebounds all while playing more than half a quarter more?

and kyrie shot better from all part of the field?
and kyrie was offensively the clutchest player in the regular season?
and kyrie was a better passer?
and kyrie was a better ball handler?

but i forgot statistics mean everything :lol

[Punpun]

Yep, that's what it entails. Only an handful of special players put a 20-5-5 season in their rookie season. Tyreke is one of them.

Ps: 5.8 AST > Kyrie's 5.4. Tyreke is the one who got more AST. Get your fact straights.

:yaohappy:

[LBJMVP]

Yep, that's what it entails. Only an handful of special players put a 20-5-5 season in their rookie season. Tyreke is one of them.

Ps: 5.8 AST > Kyrie's 5.4. Tyreke is the one who got more AST. Get your fact straights.

:yaohappy:


tyreke, the same special player that has gotten worse every season he has been in the league? :oldlol:

[Punpun]

tyreke, the same special player that has gotten worse every season he has been in the league? :oldlol:

Dude, we discussing their rookie year. We never know with Tyreke. Maybe he decides to become elite again. T-rob might be the spark he needed.

[LBJMVP]

Dude, we discussing their rookie year. We never know with Tyreke. Maybe he decides to become elite again. T-rob might be the spark he needed.

whatever

kyrie rookie season > tyreke's rookie season


kyrie right now >>> tyreke right now

its even arguable that kyrie had a better rookie season than lebron
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1112566-lebron-james-vs-kyrie-irving-is-irving-having-better-rookie-year-than-lebron

[Punpun]

kyrie rookie season > tyreke's rookie season


Bullshit. Tyreke had more points, more AST, more Rebound in a similar FG% (0.45vs0.46). Tyreke's season was better. That's all. And it's not arguable.

[Is He Ill]

Bullshit. Tyreke had more points, more AST, more Rebound in a similar FG% (0.45vs0.46). Tyreke's season was better. That's all. And it's not arguable.

Way more minutes per game.

[Punpun]

Way more minutes per game.

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.

[LBJMVP]

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.


he hurt his shoulder falling down....

:lol :lol couldnt handle it?

[Is He Ill]

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.

I'm just saying that it's the only reason Tyreke had more assists per game, since you keep bringing that up.

[Punpun]

I'm just saying that it's the only reason Tyreke had more assists per game, since you keep bringing that up.

No, I keep bringing that up because the guy I'm "arguing" with said Tyreke had less AST than Irving. When it's wrong.

If Kyrie could play as much minutes as Tyreke, he would have. He didn't, then he can't.

[LBJMVP]

No, I keep bringing that up because the guy I'm "arguing" with said Tyreke had less AST than Irving. When it's wrong.

If Kyrie could play as much minutes as Tyreke, he would have. He didn't, then he can't.


whatever if you gonna bitch about .3 assist per game when tyreke played more than half a quarter more than oh well.

you also said sacremento had a better winning percentage during tyrekes rookie year... you were wrong.

pretty sad considering cleveland 2nd best player was half the year
:lol

and when your 3rd best player is antawn jamison haha

[dunksby]

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.
Actually I give Kyrie more credit for doing this in a condensed season with such intense schedule.

[RedBlackAttack]

So I'm trolling because I compared him to Tyreke?

Tyreke had a better year and you had to bring up "advanced" statistics.

Comparing him to Mayo and Tyreke is pretty accurate so don't get mad. You want me to start comparing him to CP3?
I can't tell if you are trolling or just stupid, but let's go with "stupid" for now... For you to object to advanced statistics being brought into the conversation is pretty much your admission that you have no argument. They have become a part of today's game and can be as telling as the most basic, caveman stats.

His per game averages are one thing...

30.5 minutes
18.5 points (47% FG, 87% FT, 40% 3PT)
5.4 assists
4 rebounds
1.1 steals

There aren't too many guards in this league who average over 18 points on 47/87/40 or better.


But, look further...

Per 36:

21.8 points (47%, 87%, 40%)
6.4 assists
4.4 rebounds
1.2 steals

And, rookies of the past like Tyreke and whoever else would not have been playing many more (if any) minutes than Kyrie when you account for the condensed season.


His usage rate of 28.7% was the 9th highest of any rookie ever. Of rookies who had that usage rate or higher, only one had a higher PER or TS%... Michael Jordan.

Kyrie's PER of 21.4 is the third highest for a rookie guard in NBA history. The only guards in NBA history with a higher PER their rookie years were Michael Jordan and Chris Paul.


To sum up, he may or may not be on an all-time great level when his career comes to a close, but there is no denying the greatness that he played with as a 19-year-old rookie in the NBA.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.
Totally ridiculous to expect Kyrie as a rookie or any other player who was a rookie during this past season to play the same kind of minutes as a guy who was a rookie during a regular 82 game season.

Forget rookies... Stars like LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. all played the lowest MPG of their careers during this past season. It isn't a coincidence.

[Is He Ill]

No, I keep bringing that up because the guy I'm "arguing" with said Tyreke had less AST than Irving. When it's wrong.

If Kyrie could play as much minutes as Tyreke, he would have. He didn't, then he can't.

Anyway, this is just getting into a debate whether Tyreke or Kyrie had a better rookie season. The thread is about PleezeBelieve saying Kyrie is overrated coming out of college and him claiming he is never incorrect. Kyrie is a phenomenal shooter and playmaker, he proved that this past season. There doesn't seem to be anything overrated about him. He looks like he has what it takes to be an elite player.

[9erempiree]

this is true.

You cannot knock Tyreke for playing more minutes because I can say Kyrie isn't tough enough or have the stamina to play those minutes.

Also, it's no guarantee that a player keeps his averages the same if he played more minutes.

[Punpun]

Totally ridiculous to expect Kyrie as a rookie or any other player who was a rookie during this past season to play the same kind of minutes as a guy who was a rookie during a regular 82 game season.

So ? What is ridiculous is acting like playing 37 minutes is actually a knock on your stats.

@Lbj, I never said "you also said sacremento had a better winning percentage during tyrekes rookie year... you were wrong.". **** off with your bullshit.

Tyreke is better almost everywhere while playing 37 freaking minutes. With a .45 FG%. That's better than Kyrie. Not a knock on Kyrie on any ways though.

[RedBlackAttack]

So ? What is ridiculous is acting like playing 37 minutes is actually a knock on your stats.

@Lbj, I never said "you also said sacremento had a better winning percentage during tyrekes rookie year... you were wrong.". **** off with your bullshit.

Didn't say it was a knock... Just said he wouldn't have played 37 MPG as a rookie during this past season. In fact, Tyreke himself only averaged 34.3 MPG during this past season and it was his third year... A guy that has been around and gone through the rigors of an NBA season twice before.

Just sayin'.


Tyreke is better almost everywhere while playing 37 freaking minutes. With a .45 FG%. That's better than Kyrie. Not a knock on Kyrie on any ways though.

I can tell you this... Even if you just look at the basic statistics and compare both players as they played this past season (it is unfair to compare a normal season to this past season), Kyrie was better everywhere... And, he is a rookie and Evans is in his third year.

I mean, who would you rather have?

[Punpun]

Please, let's stick to comparing facts. Not "if". "If" have no bearing on what they actually accomplished. And Tyreke just accomplished more as a rookie. That's all.

[9erempiree]

As I said earlier...same old tired song and dance.

Cavs fans using advanced statistics....this is Lebron 2.0 all over again.

[NuggetsFan]

Totally ridiculous to expect Kyrie as a rookie or any other player who was a rookie during this past season to play the same kind of minutes as a guy who was a rookie during a regular 82 game season.

I don't know If I'm missing something but didn't everybody else play their usual starting minutes this year? Faried would played the same role in an 82 game season or a 54 game one, same with guy's like Brooks or whatever other rookie including Irving IMO :confusedshrug:

I don't think it's fair to knock Irving for only playing 30 minutes a night. I think using the shorted season is a copout tho and clearly shows bias when comparing it vs other players. If your going to go that route Kyrie only played 51 games his rookie year. OJ and Reke played 82 and 72, Chris Paul played 78.

Iring wouldn't have played 38 minutes a night if was a 82 game year IMO. Pure speculation obviously but what happened happened so w.e.

Am I the only person who hates per 36 numbers? To act like guy's won't get tired or their numbers are going to directly translate is kinda ridiculous in something as unpredictable as sports. Plus what's the accomplishment in knowing what you woulda done in minutes you never played? Not like that shit helps win games. Atleast other statistics show what you've done during a game to help impact, not what if's :confusedshrug: .. not directed at people using it for Irving. Just in general :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Please, let's stick to comparing facts. Not "if". "If" have no bearing on what they actually accomplished. And Tyreke just accomplished more as a rookie. That's all.
:roll:

No "if" in comparing how they each played this past season's ridiculous 66-game slate in four months. There wasn't a single statistic that favored Evans, from basic to advanced.

[Punpun]

Nah, PER36 is pretty insulting to what the players actually did. It's "Look what youcould do if you played 36 minutes you lazy ****".

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't know If I'm missing something but didn't everybody else play their usual starting minutes this year?
Ah, no? The guy we are talking about, Tyreke Evans... career low minutes.

LeBron James... career low minutes.
Dwyane Wade... career low minutes.
Derrick Rose... career low minutes.
John Wall... career low minutes.
Blake Griffin... career low minutes.
Dirk Nowitzki... lowest minutes since rookie year.
Steve Nash... lowest minutes in over a decade.
Carmelo Anthony... career low minutes.
Danny Granger... lowest minutes since rookie year.
Kevin Durant... minutes down.

There were a couple of guys who are considered the best player on their respective teams who played even or upped their minutes, but for the most part, minutes across the board were down.

[NuggetsFan]

Just took a glance. Irving's minutes put him at 64-66 range for minutes. Woulda been in the 86-87 range last year at 30 and a half. Quick glance at the past few years seems like players played anywhere from 1-3 minutes less. I was kinda wrong.

I do believe you'd have to look at each situation itself tho. Can't just say Tyreke wouldn't have played 35-38 minutes this year. We have no clue, Kings coulda been like f*ck it.

[9erempiree]

Nah, PER36 is pretty insulting to what the players actually did. It's "Look what youcould do if you played 36 minutes you lazy ****".


basically this.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tyreke wouldn't have played 35-38 minutes this year. We have no clue, Kings coulda been like f*ck it.
Agreed... So, why don't we just take a look at this past year since it is impossible to compare a normal rookie season to a condensed rookie season...

Kyrie Irving
30.5 minutes
18.5 points (47% FG, 87% FT, 40% 3PT)
5.4 assists
4 rebounds
1.1 steals

Tyreke Evans
34.3 minutes
16.5 points (45% FG, 78% FT, 20% 3PT)
4.5 assists
4.6 rebounds
1.3 steals

One guy was 19. The other guy was 22.

:confusedshrug:

[Punpun]

>Comparin some guy 3rd year to a rookie year when the discussion is about Rookie vs Rookie.

Way to make a relevant point.

:yaohappy:

[NuggetsFan]

Agreed... So, why don't we just take a look at this past year since it is impossible to compare a normal rookie season to a condensed rookie season...

Kyrie Irving
30.5 minutes
18.5 points (47% FG, 87% FT, 40% 3PT)
5.4 assists
4 rebounds
1.1 steals

Tyreke Evans
34.3 minutes
16.5 points (45% FG, 78% FT, 20% 3PT)
4.5 assists
4.6 rebounds
1.3 steals

:confusedshrug:

I don't recall saying Evans was better. Even in their rookie season. I was just generally curious about the minute discussion. Early on I talked about Evans and OJ's rookie years. I believe I went on to say Irving was far more in control and an advanced shooter.

[RedBlackAttack]

>Comparin some guy 3rd year to a rookie year when the discussion is about Rookie vs Rookie.

Way to make a relevant point.

:yaohappy:
Just showing that the rigorous schedule obviously impacted his game... Or he is just regressing as a player... Or a combination of the two.

Again, not a coincidence that his minutes were way down this year... From 37 to 34.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't recall saying Evans was better. Even in their rookie season. I was just generally curious about the minute discussion. Early on I talked about Evans and OJ's rookie years. I believe I went on to say Irving was far more in control and an advanced shooter.
I wasn't insinuating that you were saying Evans was better... Just showing how I believe Evans numbers (most notably his minutes) were down during this past season. I do not believe it is a coincidence (condensed season/numbers down across the board).

[Punpun]

Just showing that the rigorous schedule obviously impacted his game... Or he is just regressing as a player... Or a combination of the two.

Again, not a coincidence that his minutes were way down this year... From 37 to 34.

So what ? We are comparing what they accomplished on their rookie season. Not what they could have accomplished. Please, try to be a lil bit logical.

[NuggetsFan]

I wasn't insinuating that you were saying Evans was better... Just showing how I believe Evans numbers (most notably his minutes) were down during this past season. I do not believe it is a coincidence (condensed season/numbers down across the board).

Makes sense.

[RedBlackAttack]

Please, try to be a lil bit logical.
Logic would tell you that, if minutes were down across the league, it is a legitimate discussion point when comparing and contrasting these two seasons.

Also, logic wouldn't refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics.

[Punpun]

Logic would tell you that, if minutes were down across the league, it is a legitimate discussion point when comparing and contrasting these two seasons.

Also, logic wouldn't refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics.

Logic tells you that your concern about minutes are irrelevant because crying about it won't change Kyrie played less minutes than Tyreke. And that's it. Facts are facts. Stop making excuses about why Tyreke' stats are better.

[RedBlackAttack]

And, with that, I'm done talking about Tyreke Evans in this thread.


To the OP's point...

While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.

Kyrie Irving needs a few months for foot to heal (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235343)


I think the Cavs made a huge mistake.

They should've drafted Derrick Williams first and then with the 4th if they still want a PG then go ahead and draft Kemba Walker. I think Walker will have a better career than Irving.

A Walker/Williams duo for the future actually sounds pretty good.


Derrick Williams was the way to go. But I am happy by the way it worked out, Because I am going to really enjoy watching the T-wolves next season. I wouldnt have been as excited for the Cavs.

T-wolves 2012!

:hammertime:


The savior of the Cavs and next CP3 :roll: :oldlol:


I don't think Irving will be a perennial All Star. He could be a solid PG at best or just a guy that will fizzle out. One thing he has over recent point guards like Wall and Rose is that he's coming into the league already a good shooter. He's just not as quick and athletic as those two. He will not put up stellar numbers. He will be good, but not great. I think other guys from this draft will have much better careers than Irving.


Derrick Williams, Kanter > Irving


Derrick Williams and Kemba Walker/ Brandon Knight were the correct picks to make.

I still have trouble remembering Tristan Thompson's name. SOunds like a WNBA player


Savior comment is me being a smartass. On this forum a couple Cavs fans compared his upside to CP3 :facepalm . I guess a scouting report also said best case scenario= CP3 which is a load of crap. A few people implied he's an all star talent. I think like Senal said this guy is a solid starter, never a star. 15 and 7 in a career best year. Mo Williams caliber where he's a great 3rd option but NOT a franchise changing or carrying worthy player.

I just got annoyed with the praise this guy was getting after 11 games in college and despite the fact that many league scouts said the draft had no legit star players. It's not like he earned it. He has a lot to prove. Maybe I'll be wrong but right now I have any avy bet with you on Kyrie vs Bledsoe right? Or was it the Clippers in the playoffs bet you took?


Look at the list of PG's who averaged 20 ppg and tell me how many are in the hall of fame or will be. I don't know many 20 ppg PG's who aren't elite or at least all star level. It's not that I think this guy sucks.. I just think he will tap out at a Mo Williams level. Great shooter and scorer good for maybe 17 ppg tops and 7 apg. His defense and playmaking aren't anything to write home about. Another thing to remember is as a PG he's going to have a lot more trouble adapting to the NBA game than Lebron did in Cleveland as a 6'8 240 pound SF who had a superior build to everyone.

The problem on top of that is...... Cleveland doesn't have any other weapons you need to worry about besides Baron at times (nobody doubles him anymore though) and Jamison once in a while. You guys traded your best all around player in Hickson. Meaning that IF somehow Irving is a great scorer and does get close to 20 ppg in the next couple years... you guys won't have enough talent around him to take away that pressure. He's going to be the next one man team if that happens. Think Vince Carter's Raptors or T Mac's Magic but not nearly as good of a team.

I may seem like I'm rooting against this kid but I'm not. I'm just right there with Michael Jordan when he says nowadays kids get all this praise before they play a single NBA game. This guy is a high risk, high reward player. Just don't forget HIGH RISK as well. He's not a player who dominated the college ranks like the greats did. Hell Blake Griffin was 2nd all time in double doubles for NCAA and had superstar written all over him according to scouts, drawing Malone comparisons yet most people were skeptical over his game transitioning to the NBA level and all that. After his injury people forgot about him pretty much.

Kyrie has been injury prone his college career and now he's still recovering and injured. Yet people have all this hype and faith about him and he's not even an A prospect. He's a B at best.


This, plus Kemba Walker. Irving got overhyped.


I respect your realism. As long as you aren't one of those who think he's a franchise caliber player.

^^^All that from just one thread about Kyrie's foot. The thread wasn't even about predicting whether or not he will be a franchise player. I would say that -- at least on ISH -- the idea that Kyrie would be as good as he is was laughed at almost across the board.

So, PB shouldn't be the only one called out here.


Take a look at this thread for more...

Kyrie Irving is the next big bust (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227289)


you heard it here first


You are not alone in thinking that.

But it also depends on expectations of him.... I expect him to carve out a DJ Augustin career, which is a bust given most expectations.

I'd take Brandon Knight over him. And I'd even take Kemba over him - thats saying something.


Yeah, I wouldn't draft Irving with a top 5 pick either.

I'd pick Derrick Williams or Enes Kanter.

etc.

[Jyap9675]

Before season : why is Irving so overrated?
After : Ahh I can see whyyy

Kid's got amazing stroke and have can finish above the rim well. If he improves his passing, he'll be on Cp3's level. Scoring wise tho, I think he's close.

[ralph_i_el]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216885

April 06, 2011




Now, a little over one year later, Cleveland is going to have the best backcourt in the NBA with a rookie starting at SG and Irving.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:facepalm

[Real Men Wear Green]

While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.
The massive problem is that he wants to take credit like some kind of Nostradamus. Every one of us has been wrong about predictions here and there. But how many of us would go from making a thread like he made bashing Irving to some idiotic claim that he predicted greatness but then we deleted his prediction? PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets. Really he should just be banned, but whatever.

[Meticode]

I'll be the first to say I wasn't keen on the Irving pick. I was totally wrong. I didn't say he was a bust, but I think I remember myself saying I felt Derrick Williams was a safer pick.

I was wrong.

[KG215]

And, with that, I'm done talking about Tyreke Evans in this thread.


To the OP's point...

While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.

Kyrie Irving needs a few months for foot to heal (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235343)

^^^All that from just one thread about Kyrie's foot. The thread wasn't even about predicting whether or not he will be a franchise player. I would say that -- at least on ISH -- the idea that Kyrie would be as good as he is was laughed at almost across the board.

So, PB shouldn't be the only one called out here.


Take a look at this thread for more...

Kyrie Irving is the next big bust (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227289)
etc.


And this...


The massive problem is that he wants to take credit like some kind of Nostradamus. Every one of us has been wrong about predictions here and there. But how many of us would go from making a thread like he made bashing Irving to some idiotic claim that he predicted greatness but then we deleted his prediction? PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets. Really he should just be banned, but whatever.

It wasn't about PB being wrong, because that's a common occurrence. It was started simply for a few sh*ts and giggles because he's a self proclaimed prophet, who's wrong more of than right, and is now one year later claiming Cleveland will have the best backcourt in the NBA.

And I'm well aware that ISH was, at best, split on Irving last year pre-draft. I was one of the few (can't find the exact threads) that was saying he wouldn't be a bust or be better than people thought. I also said I liked Derrick Williams just as much (if not more) than Irving, but I thought Irving going number one was the right pick for the Cavs. I didn't think Irving would be this good this fast, but I liked his potential and thought he had a higher ceiling than a lot of other posters.

[LBJMVP]

So what ? We are comparing what they accomplished on their rookie season. Not what they could have accomplished. Please, try to be a lil bit logical.

so evans had better stats and thats all you have.

he averaged less than two points more, basically that same assists, and less than 2 rebounds.

the fact remains, kyrie is more efficient, better shooter, better at getting the rim and converting, better ball handler, better passer, way more clutch.

kyrie's nickname is mr. fourth quarter.... earned that nickname his rookie year.


if you asked a GM after you saw both rookie seasons (and you only saw the rookie season, they would see tyreke's 2nd of 3rd) im pretty sure it would be unanimous that every GM would take kyrie Irving.

[CavaliersFTW]

Nobody even thinks what you are thinking during the season but since that commercial came out....people are all over him.

Like I said, he will be a starting PG in this league and that's it. A couple of all stars and that's it.
Oh right it's all because of that commercial :facepalm :roll:

[Replay32]

Kyrie Irving is the real deal. IMO, barring injury, he will be a top 5 PG in a few years.

I can't hate of the kid. He's got a lot of game and is cold blooded in the clutch.

[KG215]

I'm starting to think 9erempire and PunPun are the same person. They both post like a 12 year old.

[DaSeba5]

He's a future superstar. He's not overrated at all.

[lilgodfather1]

In three years time he will be the best PG in the entire NBA imo. If he can up his scoring, maintain his efficiency, and get some better talent around him I can't see 24/11 as out of the realm of reality. He had a great rookie year. I won't claim it was all time great like others will, but kid can play the game, and he will only get better.

[PleezeBelieve]

I called his stat line exactly yet you fool's want to keep bringing that one thread up that was made in Dec of '10. At that time no one had the chance to do any advance scouting on Irving. When I was given the opportunity to dig deeper and realize the guy was.6'3 with an above average standing reach for his position, boom, I was on top of the situation and correctly predicted his rookie production across the board. I didn't miss on a single element of his final averages or efficiency results.

You all can keep bringing up one side of the story. It's was ya'll do. The MODS openly encourage the slandering of my name. It's nothing I'm not used to. I was right about Irving to a degree that is unprecedented in player/scouting analysis. No one here will admit that and I'm fine with that.

[Richesly]

:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:

[chips93]

In three years time he will be the best PG in the entire NBA imo. If he can up his scoring, maintain his efficiency, and get some better talent around him I can't see 24/11 as out of the realm of reality. He had a great rookie year. I won't claim it was all time great like others will, but kid can play the game, and he will only get better.

take it easy bro

two players in history have put up those numbers, oscar and tiny

24 is doable, but there just isnt enough possessions to get 24 and 11

[NuggetsFan]

I called his stat line exactly yet you fool's want to keep bringing that one thread up that was made in Dec of '10. At that time no one had the chance to do any advance scouting on Irving. When I was given the opportunity to dig deeper and realize the guy was.6'3 with an above average standing reach for his position, boom, I was on top of the situation and correctly predicted his rookie production across the board. I didn't miss on a single element of his final averages or efficiency results.

You all can keep bringing up one side of the story. It's was ya'll do. The MODS openly encourage the slandering of my name. It's nothing I'm not used to. I was right about Irving to a degree that is unprecedented in player/scouting analysis. No one here will admit that and I'm fine with that.

I don't think it has anything to do with your scouting analysis and more to do with the fact that you generally just say whatever random thing you can to generate attention. Making whenever you to predict something correctly mean 10x less because everybody knows you were just spouting bullshit from the get go.

Your not even a unique troll. I would guess when people were hying Irving up as the number 1 pick you decided to trash him. When the season started and people were calling this a weak draft year you went on to tell everybody how amazing Irving was just after you tore him apart.

You say things to stir the pot and stand out. It's funny when skip bayless does it because he's getting paid for it. Your doing it because your either 14 years old or weren't hugged enough as a child :oldlol:

[Punpun]

so evans had better stats

There. You admitted it.

[chips93]

You say things to stir the pot and stand out. It's funny when skip bayless does it because he's getting paid for it. Your doing it because your either 14 years old or weren't hugged enough as a child :oldlol:

this

but less :oldlol: , and more :(

[hawksdogsbraves]

Irving is great, but the 'best backcourt in the NBA' schtick is a little much. A guy who never started a game in two years and averaged 12ppg is going to constitute half the best backcourt in the league? Give him a couple years at least.

[RedBlackAttack]

Irving is great, but the 'best backcourt in the NBA' schtick is a little much. A guy who never started a game in two years and averaged 12ppg is going to constitute half the best backcourt in the league? Give him a couple years at least.
I agree that we should give it a few years... or at least see how Dion looks on the next level, but the whole "starter" thing is getting tired. First, he finished games which is always more important than who is on the floor for tip. Second, he played more minutes than the guy who started at the 2. Third, the guy who most people point to as the best player on the board-- Thomas Robinson -- didn't start until his junior year and never played close to the minutes that Waiters did during his freshman and sophomore seasons.

It is a non issue.

[YouAintGrizz]

Now, a little over one year later, Cleveland is going to have the best backcourt in the NBA with a rookie starting at SG and Irving.


With Waiters? No..

:facepalm

Wall + Beal > Irving + Waiters

[KyrieTheFuture]

How did this thread become Kyrie vs. Tyreke? This should be 8 pages of calling PleezeBelieve a ****head not statistical comparison. Anyone who wants info on Dion come to me and obviously I'm a Kyrie stan so I'll try to be objective. Tyreke may have had a more impressive season on paper, but Kyrie led the league in 4th quarter scoring as a rookie (I believe, if not he's up there). That's crazy. Also Irving>Wall and who knows with Dion and Beal so all you should say is it's equal cause Beal was rated higher.

[nathanjizzle]

ill vouch for kyrie, ive watched d rose since highschool and recognized his talent. irving will be great for the cavs.

[dunksby]

PB = Prophet BBall.

[zizozain]

yes PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets.

[KG215]

Unfortunately (for us, not Dion) he's been right about Waiters so far, so we'll have to listen to him brag about that one for who knows how long.

[sixer6ad]

20 5 5 is better than 18 3 5

Kings 29 -57 winning at 35%

Cavs 21-45 winning at 31 %


All things point to Tyreke having the better year. So please stop overrating Kyrie because he did a commercial.

This guy is sitting at home laughing his --s off. He got many of you. You took the bait and got pissed. He struck a cord with the commercial reference when everyone who knows bball knows the Uncle Drew commercial - while fun - really went nowhere.

Outside of the game vs. the Bulls, he has abused people this year. I was actually sad watching Chris Paul trying to guard him in LA. He penetrates at will, finishes as well as any point guard, is creative, has amazing handles, and is consistent on his jump shot.

empire - good humor. Now...come clean on Kyrie vs. Tyreke. You have people on the edge of the bridge. Prove your sanity...

[tobethdope]

2 years older or younger, who is way better then him??? (u shud name at least 10 to claim he is overrated)
think he is one of the best of "his generation"...
time will tell, but i expect great things from him, one of the most talented shooters ive ever seen..

[Money 23]

PleezeLeave

[jaydacris]

:cheers: Welcome back, Kyrie Irving! :cheers:

28pts 6rebs 11asts vs lakers. Plus the victory :pimp:

[FatComputerNerd]

how great is our god? :bowdown:

[noob cake]

Our God dropped 28/11 on 52% shooting first game back from an injury.

[Wally450]

With Waiters? No..

:facepalm

Wall + Beal > Irving + Waiters

:wtf: :roll:

[PleezeBelieve]

Lol

[Mr Exlax]

Lol

Damn bro. You called it!

[ROCSteady]

I picture Kyrie with the Lakers for some reason.

3 Team trade:

LAL gets: Kyrie Irving
CLE gets: Rondo & Sullinger or Bass
BOS gets: LAL first round pick, Clarkson & Hill or Davis

[RRR3]

I picture Kyrie with the Lakers for some reason.

3 Team trade:

LAL gets: Kyrie Irving
CLE gets: Rondo & Sullinger or Bass
BOS gets: LAL first round pick, Clarkson & Hill or Davis
Boston gets assreamed in this scenario.

[tpols]

Boston gets assreamed in this scenario.

not really.. LA isnt winning shit with kyrie at PG.. they still have no defense and no rebounding in a all time stacked west.

Boston gets a top 5 pick here from LA on top of whatever theyd get themselves..

[ROCSteady]

Boston gets a lottery pick, a capable big man with some offense/size & a young wing shooter to develop.

Don't see how that's ass reamed. Two solid role/ bench players with game and a potential top 3 guy