Is LeBron better than Kobe ever was?

[StateOfMind12]

Quick question for you guys, do you think that LeBron was better than Kobe ever was?

A lot of people believe that LeBron's best season or in other words, "peak" was in 2009, 2010, or 2012. It varies among others but I do think LeBron's peak is actually right now in 2012. The same goes for Kobe. A lot of people have different opinions on when Kobe's best season was, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, etc.

Do you believe that Lebron's peak was better than Kobe's peak ever was?

[RazorBaLade]

kobes peak is better than brons in a lot of ways, but bron still has and will forever have those 2 rebounds 2 assists and 2 TS% points + being ridiculously versatile on defense for an entire 48 min. So bron has advantages too obv.

I think its tough to go against kobe in 03/06/08 tho.

[Kurosawa0]

Yes, absolutely. Kobe was a far better scorer in his prime, but LeBron does so much more. It's not a knock on Kobe either.

Kobe may always have the better resume, but LeBron is the better individual talent.

[Glide2keva]

Don't like either, but yes.

[eliteballer]

Don't like either, but yes.

You hate Kobe more you pretentious twit:biggums:

[chazzy]

09 Lebron was his peak for me and that was better than all Kobe seasons. I don't know about 2012 though.

[9erempiree]

Kobe's peak was fantastic. It was really a one man show.

I enjoyed watching Cavs' Lebron and he was more dominant then. Miami is loaded and even though Lebron dominated this year, it didn't make a huge impact like when he was with the Cavs.

[DirtySanchez]

Two different type of players....let's just see if LeBron can catch up.

[pauk]

Yes, absolutely. Kobe was a far better scorer in his prime, but LeBron does so much more. It's not a knock on Kobe either.

Kobe may always have the better resume, but LeBron is the better individual talent.

This..

[Kurosawa0]

It's just that I don't think we've ever seen a guy that can where so many different hats and be so effective at the same time.

Need LeBron to play point guard? He can get you 10-12 assists.

Need LeBron to play Power Forward? He can score in the paint and grab 10-15 rebounds.

Need LeBron to score? He can get 30 a night.

In the modern era, there hasn't been anyone like him.

[fpliii]

just my opinion...Kobe was better defensively in the early 2000s than LeBron is today, and better on offense from 05-08 than LeBron's been (for the most part)...LeBron's just peaking in both regards at the same time as opposed to Kobe in two different phases

idk man :confusedshrug:

[eliteballer]

Bron has never been as dominant as 07 Kobe. ten 50 point games 37 ppg average after he recovered from offseason knee surgery.

03 Kobe had everything Lebron does except he was quicker with better shooting ability.

[RazorBaLade]

It's just that I don't think we've ever seen a guy that can where so many different hats and be so effective at the same time.

Need LeBron to play point guard? He can get you 10-12 assists.

Need LeBron to play Power Forward? He can score in the paint and grab 10-15 rebounds.

Need LeBron to score? He can get 30 a night.

In the modern era, there hasn't been anyone like him.

Need Kobe to score 10+ pts in the 4th? He can
Need kobe to score 40-50 pts to win the game? He can
Need Kobe to hit clutch jumpers? He can

these are the give and takes..

[General]

People saying Kobe was only a better scorer are forgetting or ignoring Kobe's amazing defense. Lebron can defend more positions, but he can't lock down a player like Kobe used to. Please don't mention Lebron shutting down a 6'2" Rose:facepalm

[DirtySanchez]

The longevity of Kobe's skills comes to play here. His work ethic and ability to adjust his game through the years. Im Telling you now LeBron does not have that.

We will have to wait and see but that is a buyouts plus for Kobe.

[swag2011]

Different players, different circumstances. I don't think it's fair to compare some things either. But no, i think Kobe had him beat a few years, and obviously, Lebron has had him the last 2 or 3 years most def. I don't think it's fair to say Lebron is better defensively b/c he can guard all 5 positions. Like seriously how can you hold that against a GUARD the fact that he can't guard a PF, or a center lol?

Basically i look at it like this. You need someone to drop 40, 50 points for you? Clutch jumper? Close the game for you, or keep you in the game? you go with Kobe. You want someone to give you maybe not as many points, but he'll give you some assists and rebounds as well? Lebron's your guy.

2 completely different players.

[amfirst]

Kobe for me... LeBron was great this season, but he is surrounded by amazing talent. U even attempt to double him and all he has to do is pass it to the three point shooter and it's going in. He has a lot of options and help this season, more than Kobe has ever had.

[RazorBaLade]

The longevity of Kobe's skills comes to play here. His work ethic and ability to adjust his game through the years. Im Telling you now LeBron does not have that.

We will have to wait and see but that is a buyouts plus for Kobe.

longetivity doesnt matter when it comes to pure peak play

[Kurosawa0]

The longevity of Kobe's skills comes to play here.

It's not about career though. Kobe wins that. It's about whether or not any Kobe version was better than this version of LeBron.

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron's been better than Kobe ever was since he was 24. The fact he has done it for 3 years should say something about Kobe's greatness.

[pauk]

It's just that I don't think we've ever seen a guy that can where so many different hats and be so effective at the same time.

Need LeBron to play point guard? He can get you 10-12 assists.

Need LeBron to play Power Forward? He can score in the paint and grab 10-15 rebounds.

Need LeBron to score? He can get 30 a night.

In the modern era, there hasn't been anyone like him.

One more thing:

Need Lebron to defend? Any position? No problem.

[red1]

Kobe will end up having the advantage longevity-wise by playing at an elite level for a decade. Lebron will end up having a slight advantage for his peak which was clearly 09.

[RazorBaLade]

One more thing:

Need Lebron to defend? Any position? No problem.

I think heat could have used him to guard PG or PF when they almost lost this year. So idk about no problem..

[General]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

:bowdown:

[DatAsh]

People saying Kobe was only a better scorer are forgetting or ignoring Kobe's amazing defense. Lebron can defend more positions, but he can't lock down a player like Kobe used to. Please don't mention Lebron shutting down a 6'2" Rose:facepalm

I tend to agree with this. It's tricky though, Kobe peaked offensively and defensively at different times in his career, whereas Lebron is kind of peaking all at once.

It's definitely close. You really can't go wrong with either.

[AK47DR91]

Kobe 2006-2010
vs
LeBron 2009-12(still going)

2006 and 2007 Kobe took a roster of scrubs into the playoffs, losing in 1st Round's
2009 and 2010 LeBron took a roster of aging players and scrubs to 60 wins, losing in 2nd Round and ECF
---------------advantage LeBron

2008, 09, 10 Kobe went to three straight Finals, winning two(b2b)
2011 and 2012 LeBron went to back-to-back Finals, winning one (still on-going peek)
----------------advantage Kobe

I say Kobe's peek wins by a hair. LeBron's peek is still going hard.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe 2006-2010
vs
LeBron 2009-12(still going)

2006 and 2007 Kobe took a roster of scrubs into the playoffs, losing in 1st Round's
2009 and 2010 LeBron took a roster of aging players and scrubs to 60 wins, losing in 2nd Round and ECF
---------------advantage LeBron

2008, 09, 10 Kobe went to three straight Finals, winning two(b2b)
2011 and 2012 LeBron went to back-to-back Finals, winning one (still on-going peek)
----------------advantage Kobe

I say Kobe's peek wins by a hair. LeBron's peek is still going hard.

Competition difference should be noted.

[amfirst]

just wait in a couple of years when LeBron hits his thirties. People will be disrespecting him like they do with Kobe. It's the cycle of life.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

One more thing:

Need Lebron to defend? Any position? No problem.

You can't honestly think that 1 on 1 LeBron can handle Bynum or Howard. Getting switched onto Andrew Bogut for a few possessions doesn't qualify as successfully defending a Center. Same goes for 4s. Put LeBron 1 on 1 against Pau Gasol, Z-Bo or even LaMarcus Aldridge on the block for 40+ minutes and he's going to get eaten alive.

He's good on the perimeter though. He always harasses his man and is usually pretty good with rotations and knowing when to help and when not to.

[AK47DR91]

Competition difference should be noted.
Well, if we're going into details then we should add the 3 MVPs to the 1 MVP.

As well as the 2 Finals MVPs to the 1 Finals MVP.

And so on and so on....

I was just using a short summary to compare. I don't really care too much to go deep into this see-saw debate.

[Kurosawa0]

One more thing:

Need Lebron to defend? Any position? No problem.

Absolutely. Granted, Kobe's never had the physicality to guard all five positions the way Miami has asked LeBron to do.

Still, I take LeBron and it's not really that close for me. I really may only take 2000 Shaq for pure dominance or early 90's Jordan above this current version of LeBron.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yes, IMO he is.

[PickernRoller]

One more thing:

Need Lebron to defend? Any position? No problem.

First of all this notion that Lebron can guard all positions is blatantly stupid. I hear it all around every single time and no one picks it up.

He can't guard neither Andrew nor Dwight nor Kaman or Gortat for that matter. He can't guard a single legit, non-undersize big in this league. As for PF's, he couldn't guard an 08-10 Gasol, can't guard Kevin Love, nor could he guard Garnett in his better years. Fact is, if you wanna say he can guard anyone just cause he has a big body, height and weights a ton that's ok. But he can't effectively guard those positions unless it's a scrub you're talking, an easy to push around PF, or an undersize big, or a washup player. So, this notion of him guarding the 5 positions is overrated.

SFs, SG's and PG's sure....the other two, depends on the competition.

[RazorBaLade]

Well, if we're going into details then we should add the 3 MVPs to the 1 MVP.

As well as the 2 Finals MVPs to the 1 Finals MVP.

And so on and so on....

I was just using a short summary to compare. I don't really care too much to go deep into this see-saw debate.

fair.

[Segatti]

Different players, different circumstances. I don't think it's fair to compare some things either. But no, i think Kobe had him beat a few years, and obviously, Lebron has had him the last 2 or 3 years most def. I don't think it's fair to say Lebron is better defensively b/c he can guard all 5 positions. Like seriously how can you hold that against a GUARD the fact that he can't guard a PF, or a center lol?

Basically i look at it like this. You need someone to drop 40, 50 points for you? Clutch jumper? Close the game for you, or keep you in the game? you go with Kobe. You want someone to give you maybe not as many points, but he'll give you some assists and rebounds as well? Lebron's your guy.

2 completely different players.

Exactly. This comparison is pointless, both are great each on in his area.

[pauk]

I think heat could have used him to guard PG or PF when they almost lost this year. So idk about no problem..

...and he did...

If you take a look at the Celtics/OKC series, they would attack the mismatches and Lebron guarding you is NOT a mismatch.... even when the individual player would occasionally try score against him he would most often use a screen or even a double screen to switch him with the next defender (mismatch)....

Lebron on Westbrook resulted on Durant being defended by Battier/Wade (whom Durant torched)

Lebron on Durant resulted on Westbrook being defended by Chalmers/Wade (whom Westbrook torched)

Lebron on Rondo resulted on KG being defended by Battier/Haslem (whom KG torched)

Lebron on KG resulted on Rondo being defended by Wade/Chalmers (whom Rondo torched)

and so on....

But all these players Lebron defended dropped in productions & accuracy compared to any of what his teammates forced those opponents to drop (more like increase)... so it means that Lebron is a great defender and the best defender in his team, but it also means he cant guard 2-3-4-5 players at once...

[RazorBaLade]

...and he did...

If you take a look at the Celtics/OKC series, they would attack the mismatches and Lebron guarding you is NOT a mismatch.... even when the individual player would occasionally try score against him he would most often use a screen or even a double screen to switch him with the next defender (mismatch)....

Lebron on Westbrook resulted on Durant being defended by Battier/Wade (whom Durant torched)

Lebron on Durant resulted on Westbrook being defended by Chalmers/Wade (whom Westbrook torched)

Lebron on Rondo resulted on KG being defended by Battier/Haslem (whom KG torched)

Lebron on KG resulted on Rondo being defended by Wade/Chalmers (whom Rondo torched)

and so on....

With that being said his defensive versatility doesnt mean he can guard 2-3-4-5 players at once... :oldlol:

Alls I know is Rondo and KG both lit the heat up, he should have stopped one of them if he could have. BUt he can't even limit them.

[chazzy]

Still, I take LeBron and it's not really that close for me. I really may only take 2000 Shaq for pure dominance or early 90's Jordan above this current version of LeBron.
Hakeem, Magic, Bird at their best were better than 2012 Lebron, even 09 Lebron was better. This year's Lebron was successful compared to his previous season because of his relentless motor and consistency, not because of an improvement in his abilities IMO. His jumper left him and he was far more reliant on transition/semi-transition opportunities and off ball cuts than he has in the past.

[Kurosawa0]

Hakeem, Magic, Bird at their best were better than 2012 Lebron, even 09 Lebron was better. This year's Lebron was successful compared to his previous season because of his relentless motor and consistency, not because of an improvement in his abilities IMO. His jumper left him and he was far more reliant on transition/semi-transition opportunities and off ball cuts than he has in the past.

Completely disagree. His jumper wasn't there in the Finals, but overall he's a much better shooter than he's been in the past. To me, it's the added post game. LeBron put up better numbers in 09, but he was a better overall player this year. If LeBron attacks from the areas he does in now instead of at the top of the key, that Orlando series might have turned out differently.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Lebron is the only person I can think of in the history of basketball to average over 30 points in a season and scoring not be his best asset.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'm a fan of both Kobe and Lebron (as you can see from my avatar lol) but what really makes the difference for me is the shooting percentage disparity - 53 for Lebron and 47 for Kobe (in his best season).

[chazzy]

Completely disagree. His jumper wasn't there in the Finals, but overall he's a much better shooter than he's been in the past.
Not true at all. He was a much better shooter a season ago and better in 09/10 as well, all the numbers support this. I can't recall many playoff games this season besides the game 6 against Boston where his jumper was as good as it used to be.

[DatAsh]

Lebron is the only person I can think of in the history of basketball to average over 30 points in a season and scoring not be his best asset.

Scoring is Lebron's best asset.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Scoring is Lebron's best asset.
I'd say it's his playmaking ability.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron will go down as the superior player.

[Kurosawa0]

Not true at all. He was a much better shooter a season ago and better in 09/10 as well, all the numbers support this. I can't recall many playoff games this season besides the game 6 against Boston where his jumper was as good as it used to be.

It's not about numbers. Watch the games. Anyone that's been watching LeBron can see that he's a better shooter now than he's used to be. He actually can be a bit trusted on rotation threes. He never could hit those before.

Besides, it's kind of a dumb argument to be having. Hitting jumpers has never been what's made LeBron great. The fact that he's found ways to be successful when it's not falling alone is enough for me to say he's at his peak. That wasn't the case over the years.

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron from 10-15 feet

'08-'09 - 25% - 1.3 FGA
'09-'10 - 32.2% - 1.2 FGA

'11-'12 - 47% - 2.2 FGA

Lebron from 16-23 feet

'08-'09 - 40% - 5.5 FGA
'09-'10 - 40% - 5.4 FGA

'11-'12 - 39% - 5.6 FGA

Lebron from 3 point and beyond

'08-'09 - 34.4% - 4.7 FGA
'09-'10 - 33.3% - 5.1 FGA

'11-'12 - 36.2% - 2.4 FGA

His jumper is the same thing than what it was in his last two seasons in CLE. As a matter of fact LeBron is much better from 10-15 feet which is the low to high post area. Factor in how much better LeBron is defensively, how much better he approaches the game mentally, post-game, etc. and it's clear LeBron in 2012 is the best version.

[RRR3]

Yes. And LeBron is really underrated as a scorer.

[SilkkTheShocker]

First of all this notion that Lebron can guard all positions is blatantly stupid. I hear it all around every single time and no one picks it up.

He can't guard neither Andrew nor Dwight nor Kaman or Gortat for that matter. He can't guard a single legit, non-undersize big in this league. As for PF's, he couldn't guard an 08-10 Gasol, can't guard Kevin Love, nor could he guard Garnett in his better years. Fact is, if you wanna say he can guard anyone just cause he has a big body, height and weights a ton that's ok. But he can't effectively guard those positions unless it's a scrub you're talking, an easy to push around PF, or an undersize big, or a washup player. So, this notion of him guarding the 5 positions is overrated.

SFs, SG's and PG's sure....the other two, depends on the competition.


You don't think Lebron could guard Love?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Despite the inferior skillset, I've considered Lebron to be the better scorer for a number of years now. He's more consistent and manages to get to the free throw line. My biggest peeve with Kobe is that he settles too much (which is probably why he's a career 44%~ shooter in the postseason).

Kobe has always been more polished thus more dangerous in crunch time - but being 'more skilled' has also been his achilles heel. Fact is, Kobe is notorious for his bad shot selection and the number of ill advised shots he takes out of the Lakers offense.

Lebron controls the points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks (and overall defense). At his absolute best there are not many players I'd take over Bron. MJ, Kareem, Russell, and Magic? (no coincidence these guys also upped their teammates level of play).

I'm not sure. Down the road, Lebron may eventually be on the same tier as those guys.

[swag2011]

Why is it a knock against Kobe that he can't guard all 5 positions? Lebron can't, contrary to what people say lol? So b/c Lebron can guard a PF for a play or two, he's the better defender? B/c Kobe isn't the anchor of defense on his team that should be a knock to him? I don't understand.

And to the person above, I think Lebron is the more EFFICIENT scorer, but not better scorer. Obviously that comes down to the types of shots you take. I say Kobe's still the better scorer b/c he's so skilled, has so many ways of getting his shot off regardless. Whereas with Lebron, you hear people even on here say you force him to shoot jumpers, and keep him outta the paint. I don't hear a way people say they can stop kobe from scoring. But that' s just me.

[StateOfMind12]

I'm a fan of both Kobe and Lebron (as you can see from my avatar lol) but what really makes the difference for me is the shooting percentage disparity - 53 for Lebron and 47 for Kobe (in his best season).
I'm a fan of both as well and I think LeBron being the much better decision maker is for me.

The shooting percentage disparity is part of decision making because Kobe takes a ton of ill-advised shots and has god awful shot selection while LeBron has terrific shot selection which explains their shooting percentage differences in FG%, eFG%, TS%, etc.

LeBron is also a better and more willing passer and gets more of his teammates involved and creates better ball-movement which is better decision making whereas Kobe can be a ball-stopper. This is not to say Kobe can't pass or doesn't pass because he can and he did but he just wasn't as good as LeBron in that area and he doesn't do it as often as Lebron does which goes to show you the superior decision making of LeBron.

[AK47DR91]

Despite the inferior skillset, I've considered Lebron to be the better scorer for a number of years now. He's more consistent and manages to get to the free throw line. My biggest peeve with Kobe is that he settles too much (which is probably why he's a career 44%~ shooter in the postseason).

Kobe has always been more polished thus more dangerous in crunch time - but being 'more skilled' has also been his achilles heel. Fact is, Kobe is notorious for his bad shot selection and the number of ill advised shots he takes out of the Lakers offense.

Lebron controls the points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks (and overall defense). At his absolute best there are not many players I'd take over Bron. MJ, Kareem, Russell, and Magic? (no coincidence these guys also upped their teammates level of play).

I'm not sure. Down the road, Lebron may eventually be on the same tier as those guys.
NBA Mount Rushmore: Jordan, Russell, Magic and LeBron :applause:

[TheBigVeto]

Yes.

[coin24]

In terms of skill? Are you kidding??:lol

LeBron still cant shoot for shit, has no post game, horrible footwork etc etc.
Dont be fooled because they won the finals. LeBron didnt improve, he just barelled in for layups and Brooks made no adjustments:facepalm

I swear half the posters on here just started watching bball when the heat formed there "big 3":oldlol:

[Doctor Rivers]

Quick question for you guys, do you think that LeBron was better than Kobe ever was?

A lot of people believe that LeBron's best season or in other words, "peak" was in 2009, 2010, or 2012. It varies among others but I do think LeBron's peak is actually right now in 2012. The same goes for Kobe. A lot of people have different opinions on when Kobe's best season was, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, etc.

Do you believe that Lebron's peak was better than Kobe's peak ever was?

Yes def

[RaininTwos]

In terms of skill? Are you kidding??:lol

LeBron still cant shoot for shit, has no post game, horrible footwork etc etc.
Dont be fooled because they won the finals. LeBron didnt improve, he just barelled in for layups and Brooks made no adjustments:facepalm

I swear half the posters on here just started watching bball when the heat formed there "big 3":oldlol:
http://i.qkme.me/3ooz6y.jpg

[coin24]

http://i.qkme.me/3ooz6y.jpg

Really, beiber avy??:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Indian guy]

You could make a case for '09 or '10 LeBron being better than Kobe ever was. You could also make the same case for '03, '06 and '07 Kobe though.

I certainly hope nobody's ignorant enough to say '12 LeBron>peak Kobe. Peak Kobe is a SIGNIFICANTLY superior player to Heat-LeBron.

[RRR3]

You could make a case for '09 or '10 LeBron being better than Kobe ever was. You could also make the same case for '03, '06 and '07 Kobe though.

I certainly hope nobody's ignorant enough to say '12 LeBron>peak Kobe. Peak Kobe is a SIGNIFICANTLY superior player to Heat-LeBron.
You're so bipolar. Just last week you were trolling Kobe stans and saying "LBJ>>>>>>Kobe"

:biggums:

[RaininTwos]

Really, beiber avy??:oldlol: :oldlol:
I'm just saying....you can do better.

0/10

[RazorBaLade]

You're so bipolar. Just last week you were trolling Kobe stans and saying "LBJ>>>>>>Kobe"

:biggums:

you do the trolling shit too does that mean youre bipolar?

It just means you guys have awesome lives

[PickernRoller]

You're so bipolar. Just last week you were trolling Kobe stans and saying "LBJ>>>>>>Kobe"

:biggums:

Why you mad son? BFF's when rooting for your cause, Hate when not....lol

I have fun with you guys seriously. So much shit...makes me laugh everytime a Lebron vs. Kobe thread is brought up. The real point is, no one gives a shit what I say or what anyone here says, period. Don't take it seriously.

[Doctor Rivers]

You're so bipolar. Just last week you were trolling Kobe stans and saying "LBJ>>>>>>Kobe"

:biggums:

Why do you care?

[PJR]

Ofcourse he is. Duh.

[Indian guy]

You're so bipolar. Just last week you were trolling Kobe stans and saying "LBJ>>>>>>Kobe"

:biggums:

That's not what I said. I said PEOPLE would take post-championship LeBron over Kobe in a second because of the statistical divide between them. Which is why Kobe fans rooted so hard against him, and that's why I was :oldlol: @ them, because of how miserable their lives were about to become.

That said, I'm not as enamored with '12 LeBron as everybody else. He's good, but by no means his best self, and certainly not better than peak Kobe.

[ripthekik]

Most people are just prisoners of the moment, they forgot how scary Kobe was.. dropped 40 points for how many games straight? 81 points?
This guy can straight take over a game.

Lebron has a better overall game, but I don't see him being as scary if he didn't have Wade.

oh.. Justin Bieber avatar :roll: :roll: :roll:
JB + LBJ fan = perfect match :applause:

[coin24]

That's not what I said. I said PEOPLE would take post-championship LeBron over Kobe in a second because of the statistical divide between them. Which is why Kobe fans rooted so hard against him, and that's why I was :oldlol: @ them, because of how miserable their lives were about to become.

That said, I'm not as enamored with '12 LeBron as everybody else. He's good, but by no means his best self, and certainly not better than peak Kobe.

Its the same as after last years finals, Dirk was praised on here as the GOAT etc etc:facepalm

'12 LeBron has nothing on peak Kobe...

[tpols]

I find it funny that this year when Wade was semi-injured, playing like shit, and Bosh was out for half the playoffs, Lebron played at his BEST. His extremely ball dominant style is incredibly good when he isnt being forced to share the load. And he plays with such high energy throughout the course of games that his athleticism just takes over.. no one can keep up.

In terms of basketball skill/halfcourt domination, Kobe's much better but Lebron plays at an energy level a notch higher than anyone I've ever seen.

[RRR3]

I find it funny that this year when Wade was semi-injured, playing like shit, and Bosh was out for half the playoffs, Lebron played at his BEST. His extremely ball dominant style is incredibly good when he isnt being forced to share the load. And he plays with such high energy throughout the course of games that his athleticism just takes over.. no one can keep up.

In terms of basketball skill/halfcourt domination, Kobe's much better but Lebron plays at an energy level a notch higher than anyone I've ever seen.
JJ barea

[Dave3]

09 Lebron was his peak for me and that was better than all Kobe seasons. I don't know about 2012 though.
THANK YOU. I'm so tired of people whose memory is no longer than 3 seconds calling this LeBron's best ever year like 2009 and 2010 never happened. Glad to see people still remember how LeBron played back then. I'm in the same position. I'd put 2009 and 2010 season Bron over any Kobe, but I think 2006/2007 Kobe are are the same level as 2012 LeBron.

[tpols]

JJ barea
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/607658/Bynum_Foul.gif

[indiefan24]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/607658/Bynum_Foul.gif

haha

[LelBron]

http://i.imgur.com/qdpjIl.jpg

[Heavincent]

Nope.

[StateOfMind12]

I certainly hope nobody's ignorant enough to say '12 LeBron>peak Kobe. Peak Kobe is a SIGNIFICANTLY superior player to Heat-LeBron.
Does being a better defender, having a better mental approach to the game, and having a significant better post-game mean anything to you?

Cause if it does, then I'm really not sure why you think '12 Lebron is so much worse or worse at all compared to '09 and '10 LeBron.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I consider '09 to be Lebron's peak.

'12 Lebron at least posted up quite a bit and looked decent there, moved much better without the ball and was better defensively than ever. And Lebron has finally added a true in between game in the 10-15 foot range in Miami, particularly this past season. And I also like that Lebron's shot selection improved greatly with him cutting down so much on 3s each of the last 2 years in Miami. He was shooting far too many in Cleveland, he was just so good that it got overlooked.

But '09 Lebron was quicker, didn't rely nearly as much on transition opportunities and leaking out for easy baskets. The added quickness also made him a better playmaker. And his shooting had improved by that point and wasn't a real problem.

I have been shocked at how much Lebron scores in transition now. That, and Lebron's jumper falling off this year are the 2 reasons why I can't call it his peak.

Kobe's peak is definitely either '06 or '08, imo.I go back and forth on which one. '06 was his most impressive individual feat, carrying a team that overachieved with 35 ppg every night, and perhaps the most impressive streak scoring, and he did step up and lock down some top perimeter players at times. His defense was one of the reasons I choose '06 over '07, he couldn't always give consistent effort defensively because of the incredible offensive load he had to carry, but was considerably better defensively than '07. And also because he was more physically capable from the start of the '06 season while he had to work his way back to some extent in '07.

But '08 was his best all around basketball. It's the best job he's done as a playmaker and facilitator, his best defensive season since the 3peat, one of his better rebounding seasons and he was still capable of scoring at least 32-33 ppg had he felt like it, imo. He also regained a noticeable amount of athleticism.

I'd say peak Lebron may have been more dominant, but I'm not 100% sure, Kobe was a better scorer, and we can't forget that being more of an all around player doesn't always mean you're better. Kobe also played better without the ball, he had to playing in the triangle. But when we saw him this year outside of the triangle, he had a bad habit of overdribbling and holding the ball to work his own shots.

I have a hard time choosing between these players.



03 Kobe had everything Lebron does except he was quicker with better shooting ability.

Lebron is the better passer and defender. 3peat Kobe vs Lebron is interesting defensively, though. Kobe's on the ball defense vs Lebron's help defense.

[Jax]

09 Lebron was insane>
too bad we lost on a great finals matchup...but look at those bums he played with, would've been another major humiliation.

[DonDadda59]

It's just that I don't think we've ever seen a guy that can where so many different hats and be so effective at the same time.

Need LeBron to play point guard? He can get you 10-12 assists.

Need LeBron to play Power Forward? He can score in the paint and grab 10-15 rebounds.

Need LeBron to score? He can get 30 a night.

In the modern era, there hasn't been anyone like him.

Have to agree with this post, particularly the bolded. When Bosh went down early in the IND series, a lot of people wrote off MIA, and for good reason. They were already near the bottom in the league in rebounding and with Bosh out, everyone figured IND's bigs would devour MIA's front court. Solution? Slide Bron over to the 4 and he picked up the slack and upped his rebounding in that series and kept up the pace for the remaining matches.

Need someone to score 30? Lebron does it. Need someone to grab 10+ boards? Lebron does it. Need someone to play PG and get you assists/run the offense? Need someone to guard the other team's PG? Need someone to cover the other team's center?

Guy does it all, literally everything. Fills any gaps that the top heavy but flawed MIA team has. He just might go down as the most versatile player ever when it's all said and done.

[I LUV KOBE]

Nope.. He will never be better than any of Kobe's prime years.. Maybe he's up there with 96-00 Kobe but prime Kobe aint even close..

[JtotheIzzo]

Quick question for you guys, do you think that LeBron was better than Kobe ever was?

A lot of people believe that LeBron's best season or in other words, "peak" was in 2009, 2010, or 2012. It varies among others but I do think LeBron's peak is actually right now in 2012. The same goes for Kobe. A lot of people have different opinions on when Kobe's best season was, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, etc.

Do you believe that Lebron's peak was better than Kobe's peak ever was?

Yes

[nbaballllller]

would have absolutely loved a lebron v kobe 09 finals

daaaam. still think about that sometimes...

imo 2012 lebron was his best ever though. 2013 will be even better

[RaininTwos]

Have to agree with this post, particularly the bolded. When Bosh went down early in the IND series, a lot of people wrote off MIA, and for good reason. They were already near the bottom in the league in rebounding and with Bosh out, everyone figured IND's bigs would devour MIA's front court. Solution? Slide Bron over to the 4 and he picked up the slack and upped his rebounding in that series and kept up the pace for the remaining matches.

Need someone to score 30? Lebron does it. Need someone to grab 10+ boards? Lebron does it. Need someone to play PG and get you assists/run the offense? Need someone to guard the other team's PG? Need someone to cover the other team's center?

Guy does it all, literally everything. Fills any gaps that the top heavy but flawed MIA team has. He just might go down as the most versatile player ever when it's all said and done.

Nah I don't believe Don is praising Lebron.

[DonDadda59]

Nah I don't believe Don is praising Lebron.

http://www.billboard.com/photos/stylus/2253269-justin-bieber-believe-617-409.jpg

[StateOfMind12]

Need someone to play PG and get you assists/run the offense? Need someone to guard the other team's PG? Need someone to cover the other team's center?

I don't think LeBron is capable of guarding the KG's, Gasol's, and the Howard's for an entire game but I do think he can guard them and deny them the ball for a certain amount of possessions. From what I saw in the Celtics series, most of the time KG got the ball and LeBron was guarding him, KG managed to score, but LeBron did do a heck of a job denying him the ball though on most possessions.

Even though LeBron can't guard those guys full-time but can for certain possessions, it makes the Heat defense incredibly dangerous especially at defending the pick and roll because LeBron can switch on anybody and there won't be a mismatch or as much of a mismatch.

He is still the most versatile defender in the game though.

Also, when do you consider LeBron's peak or best season? '09? '10? '12?

[RaininTwos]

http://www.billboard.com/photos/stylus/2253269-justin-bieber-believe-617-409.jpg
:roll:

The Don has spoken:bowdown:

[G-Funk]

ITs hard to gauge two complete type of machines. You can say that Lebron was a better all around player and you can argue Kobe was a better offensive and defensive player.

[RaininTwos]

I don't think LeBron is capable of guarding the KG's, Gasol's, and the Howard's for an entire game but I do think he can guard them and deny them the ball for a certain amount of possessions. From what I saw in the Celtics series, most of the time KG got the ball and LeBron was guarding him, KG managed to score, but LeBron did do a heck of a job denying him the ball though on most possessions.

Even though LeBron can't guard those guys full-time but can for certain possessions, it makes the Heat defense incredibly dangerous especially at defending the pick and roll because LeBron can switch on anybody and there won't be a mismatch or as much of a mismatch.

He is still the most versatile defender in the game though.

Also, when do you consider LeBron's peak or best season? '09? '10? '12?

KG got away with murder on those push offs. Lebron was denying him the ball perfectly and KG would just shove him while the ball was in the air and then finish. He did this like 20+ times in the ECFs. It was ridiculous.

[rfoster24]

One more thing:

Need Lebron to defend? Any position? No problem.

Lebron can't guard Garnett. He certainly cannot guard centers

[joeyjoejoe]

Peak kobe is a better shooter and great in his own right but lebrons better over all and can carry a scrub team further

[jstern]

Lebron is better than Kobe better way. Kobe has just been way more lucky in his career which is why he gets so much heat.

[Jax]

Most people are just prisoners of the moment, they forgot how scary Kobe was.. dropped 40 points for how many games straight? 81 points?
This guy can straight take over a game.

Lebron has a better overall game, but I don't see him being as scary if he didn't have Wade.

oh.. Justin Bieber avatar :roll: :roll: :roll:
JB + LBJ fan = perfect match :applause:
That's it, you said it yourself. SLIPPED :facepalm

[StateOfMind12]

KG got away with murder on those push offs. Lebron was denying him the ball perfectly and KG would just shove him while the ball was in the air and then finish. He did this like 20+ times in the ECFs. It was ridiculous.
My point is simply that when post players (PFs/Cs) get the ball against Lebron in the post, the post player usually has very good success against LeBron.

Lebron can defend PFs and Cs due to his ability to deny the ball but he is almost doomed as soon as the PF/C catches the ball unless it's some offensively challenged PF/C like Kendrick Perkins or Ryan Hollins or something because he has the size and strength to prevent that from being a total mismatch.

[eliteballer]

Lebron won a title........and all he needed were 2 superstars a weak conference and a lockout shortened season.

[rhythmic]

I just can never say with a straight face, that I would prefer LeBron James over Kobe Bryant if I want to win games.

James might be more well-rounded, he might be more efficient but he lacks that killer instinct I love Kobe for. Maybe I'm biased, I've watch Kobe on TV and live for the past 15 years, I just love his passion for winning.

I see James as a spoiled talented brat, making lots of money and having "fun" on the court. Even when he won his first championship, I didn't really feel emotion from him.

I would always pick Kobe before James, because in the end it's all about winning games and Kobe (so far) achieved far more in that aspect.

[RaininTwos]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

You think who is a spoiled talented brat? You think Lebron is? The Irony.:oldlol:

Once again, make some damn sense.

[jstern]

Once again, make some damn sense.

I have to totally agree with him. Perhaps you're just really young. Read the Phil Jackson book, the one he wrote during the last season of the 3 peat.

[Nanners]

pretty funny how virtually every single poster in this thread saying kobe is better has a lakers avatar :oldlol:

[rhythmic]

I have to totally agree with him. Perhaps you're just really young. Read the Phil Jackson book, the one he wrote during the last season of the 3 peat.

Kobe's work ethic, dedication to basketball and emotional attachment is what I'm talking about. Yes, back in his early 20's he was immature and wanted the spotlight, but he still genuinely cared about winning basketball games.

I never seen the same emotion from LeBron. He is no Kevin Garnett/Kobe Bryant, but I guess his fan base will suck him dry till the end.

[LakersReign]

pretty funny how virtually every single poster in this thread saying kobe is better has a lakers avatar :oldlol:

It's pathetic how most of the people in here saying Lebron is better, are either OBVIOUS bandwagoners, whose opinion doesn' even count anyways.. Or don't have the balls to rep Lebron straight up, so they're pretending to be a fan of another team/player. At least Laker/Kobe fans have the testicular fortitude to say what they have to say, without hiding like a little b***h.:applause:

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron votes - StateOfMind12, Kurosawa0, Glide2keva, chazzy, pauk, lilgodfather1, red1, RoundMoundOfReb, RRR3, TheBigVeto, Doctor Rivers, PJR, Dave3, JtotheIzzo, jstern

Kobe votes - RazorBaLade, eliteballer, amfirst, AK47DR91, Heavincent, I LUV KOBE, rhythmic †hesis

15-7, LBJ.

These are what I tallied up. I didn't tally every post because not everybody seemed to have been so decided on who they believed was better and I also couldn't tell which one they thought was better. I just tallied up the obvious votes and the obvious posts of who they thought was better.

Either way, every single one of Kobe's votes came from a Kobe stan and/or LeBron hater. LeBron's votes were diverse though and came from LeBron fans to a Kobe stan.

[rhythmic]

[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]Lebron votes - StateOfMind12, Kurosawa0, Glide2keva, chazzy, pauk, lilgodfather1, red1, RoundMoundOfReb, RRR3, TheBigVeto, Doctor Rivers, PJR, Dave3, JtotheIzzo, jstern

Kobe votes - RazorBaLade, eliteballer, amfirst, AK47DR91, Heavincent, I LUV KOBE, rhythmic

[StateOfMind12]

Yeah because you don't rock a James avy, right?
Obvious agenda is obvious.
I said even LeBron fans voted for LeBron but I was saying that LeBron's votes were diverse because they expanded from LeBron fans to even a Kobe stan while Kobe's votes were not. I believe only AK is neutral for Kobe votes.

You technically voted for Kobe at least that's what I got out of what you posted but I can remove you if you want.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If I had to vote, it would be James, StateofMind. Guy does it all.

I'm not a fan of either player even though I do find myself "defending" Lebron in these type of the threads lol.

[coin24]

Nice counting champ:applause:

[RaininTwos]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[I.R.Beast]

Kobe all the way.....

[Lebron23]

I just have something inside me that wont allow me to call a guy like Lebron who's had an immensely difficult life before joining the NBA, a spoiled brat. Especially when the guy he's being compared to grew up in f*cking Italy where his dad played professional basketball.


This

All of these Kobetards needs to STFU. LeBron had a more difficult life than Kobe. Now He's one of the most popular and richest athletes in the world. Kobe was a spoiled brat. His Uncle and father were former NBA Players.

[RazorBaLade]

I just have something inside me that wont allow me to call a guy like Lebron who's had an immensely difficult life before joining the NBA, a spoiled brat. Especially when the guy he's being compared to grew up in f*cking Italy where his dad played professional basketball.

bron was basically rich since 15. He's been filthy rich for more of his life than he was poor.

[catquickspider]

Kobe had a terrible team during his prime.

Put Kobe in his prime with the 2008-2010 cavs and he 3peats. Prime Kobe would have also probably led the 2011 heatles to a ring.

[I<3NBA]

Put Kobe in his prime with the 2008-2010 cavs and he 3peats.
:yaohappy:

[Quickening]

Lebron will go down as the superior player.
Kobe in his peak years didn't win anything including MVPs or titles... LeBron has been clearly the best player in the league during his peak and he has the awards to match it up... It's debatable who will have the better resume when its,said and done, I think LeBron as well as I reckon he wins 3 championships as the man... But for pure peak play, LeBron comfortably takes it, its,weird how many sock accounts are saying kobe..

[Quickening]

bron was basically rich since 15. He's been filthy rich for more of his life than he was poor.
So 27 year old LeBron has been rich since he was 15 and that's more than half his life.. ok.

[rhythmic]

Kobe in his peak years didn't win anything including MVPs or titles... LeBron has been clearly the best player in the league during his peak and he has the awards to match it up... It's debatable who will have the better resume when its,said and done, I think LeBron as well as I reckon he wins 3 championships as the man... But for pure peak play, LeBron comfortably takes it, its,weird how many sock accounts are saying kobe..

The irony is blossoming in this thread.

[DirtySanchez]

This

All of these Kobetards needs to STFU. LeBron had a more difficult life than Kobe. Now He's one of the most popular and richest athletes in the world. Kobe was a spoiled brat. His Uncle and father were former NBA Players.
Lmao drama story poor LeBron.....

Yes he is spoiled when you get everything you wanted since ur teenage years. It is clear as day to see his immature ass ways. Looks like he is finale learning now though.


But like I said that nag got a coulpe things to do to be considered on Kobes level.

[LakersReign]

Kobe in his peak years didn't win anything including MVPs or titles... LeBron has been clearly the best player in the league during his peak and he has the awards to match it up... It's debatable who will have the better resume when its,said and done, I think LeBron as well as I reckon he wins 3 championships as the man... But for pure peak play, LeBron comfortably takes it, its,weird how many sock accounts are saying kobe..

Keeping in mind, he's an OBVIOUS "sock puppet" account. Rocking a Lebron avy the entire time he said that.http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif

[RazorBaLade]

So 27 year old LeBron has been rich since he was 15 and that's more than half his life.. ok.

consideriong he doesnt remember anythiung before age 5/6 and something tiny if that, yea

[eliteballer]

[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]Lebron votes - StateOfMind12, Kurosawa0, Glide2keva, chazzy, pauk, lilgodfather1, red1, RoundMoundOfReb, RRR3, TheBigVeto, Doctor Rivers, PJR, Dave3, JtotheIzzo, jstern

Kobe votes - RazorBaLade, eliteballer, amfirst, AK47DR91, Heavincent, I LUV KOBE, rhythmic

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe in his peak years didn't win anything including MVPs or titles... LeBron has been clearly the best player in the league during his peak and he has the awards to match it up... It's debatable who will have the better resume when its,said and done, I think LeBron as well as I reckon he wins 3 championships as the man... But for pure peak play, LeBron comfortably takes it, its,weird how many sock accounts are saying kobe..
What would you consider his peak years? I would say it's from '06-'09, the years he was the best player in the league (except '09 although that is arguable) and he won an MVP, a title, and a Finals MVP in the last 2 seasons.


Bolded are Kobe haters, dont try to call them unbiased.
I'm not sure if JtotheIzzo or RoundMoundOfReb but I know the rest are and I never said otherwise. I just said there is more diversity.

[Jax]

Lmao drama story poor LeBron.....

Yes he is spoiled when you get everything you wanted since ur teenage years. It is clear as day to see his immature ass ways. Looks like he is finale learning now though.


But like I said that nag got a coulpe things to do to be considered on Kobes level.How can he be spoiled if he came from nothing? Nothing was handed to him, he worked hard for everything he got. Obviously you don't know what spoiled means.
Why are people not talking about basketball though? Common now, mile high drama. :lebronamazed:

[LEFT4DEAD]

Kobe was clearly the best player 2 years at most. Lebron was the best player in this league in at least 5 seasons out of his 9 till now. That says everything. Kobe was a scoring beast in his prime, but Lebron brings simply more on the table beside scoring.

[jstern]

Bolded are Kobe haters, dont try to call them unbiased.
Just because I don't worship Kobe doesn't mean I hate him. I call it like I see it.

[LakersReign]

Lebron fans and their hypocritical bullcrap:roll:

[NumberSix]

Yes. This is pretty obvious to everyone who isn't a delusional KobeTard.

[LBJDW305]

Yes. This is pretty obvious to everyone who isn't a delusional KobeTard.

Pretty much sums it all up...the whole world except Kobe d1ckriders and lil Wayne know that lebron is the better overall player now then kobe ever was...Kobe might have the edge in scoring that's about it

[D-Rose]

I've been a Bryant fan since the first dynasty and usually in these sorts of arguments would always side with him, but taking those homer glasses off...I just see LeBron as a better overall player than Kobe really ever has been. Kobe has had better individual performances in games, but has never carried a team with little talent as LBJ did with the '07 Cavs and besides scoring, Kobe's best seasons don't have much to show. I really think if you put LBJ in Kobe's shoes with the Lakers team of the past 5 years, there is even more success.

[Rysio]

81. /thread

[Dragonyeuw]

81. /thread

By this retarded logic, David Thompson is a top 5 player since he scored 73?

[RRR3]

A lot of :facepalm in this thread

[Segatti]

Kobe was clearly the best player 2 years at most. Lebron was the best player in this league in at least 5 seasons out of his 9 till now. That says everything. Kobe was a scoring beast in his prime, but Lebron brings simply more on the table beside scoring.

If Lebron played with prime Shaq and prime Duncan the same thing would happen to him.

[b4uc.23]

Team player Lebron > Ball hog kobe

[quick96]

Lebron won a title........and all he needed were 2 superstars a weak conference and a lockout shortened season.

:roll:

EXACTLY

:roll:

LEHYPE JAMES WAS GETTING DOUBLE ****ED BY WADE AND BOSH IN

LOCKOUT SHORTENED SEASON. HAD MULTIPLE ASSIST BY HIS LOVER

DAVID STERN. WAS HANDED OVER THE MVP TROPHY WHEN DURANT

DESERVED IT, AND IN A WEAK EASTERN CONFERENCE.

THIS SEASON SHOULD

BE VOIDED FROM THE HISTORY BOOKS!

[Pablooo5]

How can he be spoiled if he came from nothing? Nothing was handed to him, he worked hard for everything he got. Obviously you don't know what spoiled means.
Why are people not talking about basketball though? Common now, mile high drama. :lebronamazed:

Yeah,I agree bro,well said.
@DirtySanchez - watch ''More than a game",then speak out...

[PickernRoller]

Yeah,I agree bro,well said.
@DirtySanchez - watch ''More than a game",then speak out...

You tune to PBS to watch inspirational stories.....

[rivas]

:roll:

EXACTLY

:roll:

LEHYPE JAMES WAS GETTING DOUBLE ****ED BY WADE AND BOSH IN

LOCKOUT SHORTENED SEASON. HAD MULTIPLE ASSIST BY HIS LOVER

DAVID STERN. WAS HANDED OVER THE MVP TROPHY WHEN DURANT

DESERVED IT, AND IN A WEAK EASTERN CONFERENCE.

THIS SEASON SHOULD

BE VOIDED FROM THE HISTORY BOOKS!

http://i.imgur.com/yLTPH.jpg

[DMAVS41]

Yes.

[Pacers4ever]

In this order as far as peak


Danny Granger, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron votes - StateOfMind12, Kurosawa0, Glide2keva, chazzy, pauk, lilgodfather1, red1, RoundMoundOfReb, RRR3, TheBigVeto, Doctor Rivers, PJR, Dave3, JtotheIzzo, jstern, kuniva_dAMiGhTy, Quickening, NumberSix, LBJDW305, D-Rose, b4uc.23, LEFT4DEAD, DMAVS41, Pacers4Ever

Kobe votes - RazorBaLade, eliteballer, amfirst, AK47DR91, Heavincent, I LUV KOBE, rhythmic †hesis, I.R.Beast, Rysio,

24-9, LBJ.

As I said, everybody except AK for the Kobe's votes is either a known LeBron hater and/or obvious Kobe fan. Lebron's votes are all over the place from LeBron fans to Kobe stans.

[LAClipsFan33]

Make that 25 for Lebron. Since '09 he's been better than Kobe has ever been in my eyes as an individual complete PLAYER, not just SCORER

Lebron has never been the dynamic scorer Kobe has been though. It doesn't suit his mentality, I do think Lebron could score 60-70 rather easily if he wanted to, but he is unselfish

[martycrane]

Kobe's peak was fantastic. It was really a one man show.
.

This mindset is stupid b no offense but why u have 5 guys on the court if u got 1 guy tryin to be his own team? They didnt win anything in the playoffs when kobe was a 1 man show.


edi: count my vote 4 lebron i honestly think u can compare his peak with magic n michael, i think u compare kobes peak wit melo n tmac but kobe just played for a better franchise

[swag2011]

Mark my vote for Kobe. People really have selective memory lol. I guess we are in the "what have you done for me now lately" b/c people really must forgot who Kobe was. Everyone remembers what Lebron just did a few weeks ago smh.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

lebron james

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe is a more dynamic scorer than LeBron AND THATS IT!!!

LeBron >>>

[Bandito]

If Lebron played with prime Shaq and prime Duncan the same thing would happen to him.
if Kobe played with prime Duncan he would probably won more, so what's your point.

[StoneCold]

"Kobe is [brilliant], I can't say that [enough] about him and he boasts one of the [most respected] work ethics in the game. But at this point, just comparing [their peaks], you [can't say] that he's been better than LeBron."

-- Kelly Dwyer: "The Top 10 individual statistical seasons of the last decade"; basketball-reference.com, Sept 2010

I agree...

[Xiao Yao You]

Yes he is.

[WockaVodka]

Yes, you could argue that LeBron was better than Kobe at just about everything including scoring.

[RazorBaLade]

what have u done lately going rampant

[livinglegend]

Kobe was great in his prime. One of the best scorers in the league. He put 81 points, 62 points in 3 quarters, multiple 50 points streak, etc. He was a great defender.

Lebron is a good scorer. He will give you his 28-29 ppg, but he wont have crazy scoring games because he loves to involve his teammates. He is a far superior passer than Kobe. You cant double him because he will hurt you with his passing ability. He is more versatile than Kobe and this is why the Miami team with many holes last year won the champ. He can plays multiple positions offensively and defensively. Overall, he impacts the game much more than kobe. This is why he gets my vote.

[RazorBaLade]

This mindset is stupid b no offense but why u have 5 guys on the court if u got 1 guy tryin to be his own team? They didnt win anything in the playoffs when kobe was a 1 man show.


edi: count my vote 4 lebron i honestly think u can compare his peak with magic n michael, i think u compare kobes peak wit melo n tmac but kobe just played for a better franchise

then u cant read numbers

[WockaVodka]

what have u done lately going rampant
There were plenty of people that believed LeBron was better even before 2012 before he won the title.

[RazorBaLade]

There were plenty of people that believed LeBron was better even before 2012 before he won the title.

theres also plenty of ppl that belive kobe is t5 all time

[WockaVodka]

theres also plenty of ppl that belive kobe is t5 all time
You'll have a far better chance finding someone that believes Lebron was better than Kobe before he won the ring than Kobe is a top 5 player of all-time unless you are talking to the casual fan. Avid fans know what's up though.

[ShaqAttack3234]

consideriong he doesnt remember anythiung before age 5/6 and something tiny if that, yea

5 or 6? What makes you say that? I know many including myself who can remember back to around 3. I'd be surprised if 5 or especially 6 is as far as his memory goes back.


Kobe was clearly the best player 2 years at most. Lebron was the best player in this league in at least 5 seasons out of his 9 till now. That says everything. Kobe was a scoring beast in his prime, but Lebron brings simply more on the table beside scoring.

2 years? I'd say he was the best 3 years from '06-'08 and most at the time thought so. Actually, even though I thought Lebron was the best player in '09 and '10, and the best these last 2 years for that matter, Kobe was still regarded as the best by most, particularly most in the game in '09 and '10.

[RRR3]

5 or 6? What makes you say that? I know many including myself who can remember back to around 3. I'd be surprised if 5 or especially 6 is as far as his memory goes back.



2 years? I'd say he was the best 3 years from '06-'08 and most at the time thought so. Actually, even though I thought Lebron was the best player in '09 and '10, and the best these last 2 years for that matter, Kobe was still regarded as the best by most, particularly most in the game in '09 and '10.
There's a lot of Kobe Kidz like Bladers, Alphapup, etc. out there, that's why you hear "Kobe da GOAT" talk all the time. I hear it IRL too :oldlol:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Quick question for you guys, do you think that LeBron was better than Kobe ever was?

A lot of people believe that LeBron's best season or in other words, "peak" was in 2009, 2010, or 2012. It varies among others but I do think LeBron's peak is actually right now in 2012. The same goes for Kobe. A lot of people have different opinions on when Kobe's best season was, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, etc.

Do you believe that Lebron's peak was better than Kobe's peak ever was?
With Lebron's epic Finals failures...UNPRECEDENTED for a "superstar"...you cannot compare them.

[RazorBaLade]

You'll have a far better chance finding someone that believes Lebron was better than Kobe before he won the ring than Kobe is a top 5 player of all-time unless you are talking to the casual fan. Avid fans know what's up though.

Whats the difference between a casual and an avid fan? The one that agrees with your opinion is not avid? If your argument for why I should think lebron is better than kobe ever was is theres a lot of people that agree then I can also say that theres a lot of people that think kobe is top 5 or maybe even the goat. Or 2nd best to MJ. Thats all.


5 or 6? What makes you say that? I know many including myself who can remember back to around 3. I'd be surprised if 5 or especially 6 is as far as his memory goes back.

Its very hard to tell if its a real "memory" or not before about maybe even 7 years old. Now I haven't done a lot of research on it so take this with a grain of salt for sure. But before 5/6 its really you might remember one tiny tiny sliver, and then the blanks are filled in with what people told you happened and you believe you see it. Mostly, peoples memories that young are always in 3rd person view. You don't remember actually doing stuff from your perspective, but you can see a few select moments of you doing stuff. This is a clue that you don't really remember it as much as you were reminded and now think its a memory and you pieced it together. Its hard to say.

One thing that can be said for certain is that no one remembers thinking oh man im poor or oh man im rich at 3 years old. It really only kicks in at 5 or 6 when you might see some kids have better stuff than you and so on and your dads not there and mom yells at you etc. Before that its really subtle and just not much of a factor unless its something really traumatic... and i dont think neitehr kobe nor bron were raped or something so i think they both had sweet lives.

[RRR3]

With Lebron's epic Finals failures...UNPRECEDENTED for a "superstar"...you cannot compare them.
mad

[ripthekik]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :rant :cry:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Whats the difference between a casual and an avid fan? The one that agrees with your opinion is not avid? If your argument for why I should think lebron is better than kobe ever was is theres a lot of people that agree then I can also say that theres a lot of people that think kobe is top 5 or maybe even the goat. Or 2nd best to MJ. Thats all.



Its very hard to tell if its a real "memory" or not before about maybe even 7 years old. Now I haven't done a lot of research on it so take this with a grain of salt for sure. But before 5/6 its really you might remember one tiny tiny sliver, and then the blanks are filled in with what people told you happened and you believe you see it. Mostly, peoples memories that young are always in 3rd person view. You don't remember actually doing stuff from your perspective, but you can see a few select moments of you doing stuff. This is a clue that you don't really remember it as much as you were reminded and now think its a memory and you pieced it together. Its hard to say.

One thing that can be said for certain is that no one remembers thinking oh man im poor or oh man im rich at 3 years old. It really only kicks in at 5 or 6 when you might see some kids have better stuff than you and so on and your dads not there and mom yells at you etc. Before that its really subtle and just not much of a factor unless its something really traumatic... and i dont think neitehr kobe nor bron were raped or something so i think they both had sweet lives.

Maybe I'm unusual, I've heard the average is 4, but can't confirm that, also new studies tend to come out and they vary. But I've had younger family members accurately describe things from around that age. And I know I have memories from that time in my life.

You're right that you don't really know about many troubles at that age unless you're abused obviously, and even then you probably won't understand it, but it will do damage. Kids tend to adjust to most situations, whether they're poor or rich.

I don't feel sorry for either Kobe or Lebron either, btw. I'm sure that when Lebron was young it was tough to not have a father in his life, many deal with that, but I'm not going to say that isn't difficult. But now, he's been extremely fortunate, as has Kobe. Yeah, they're talented and have worked at their games, but to make that kind of money, to have that kind of respect, and to get to do what you love without ever having to worry about money. That's pretty incredible and most would kill for that. No matter how they got there, they both ended up with great lives.

[Dave3]

what have u done lately going rampant
Makes no sense considering the majority seems to have LeBron's best years as 2009 and 2010 not 2012, which throws that theory out.

[G-train]

ADo you believe that Lebron's peak was better than Kobe's peak ever was?

Yes.

[G-train]

Mark my vote for Kobe. People really have selective memory lol. I guess we are in the "what have you done for me now lately" b/c people really must forgot who Kobe was. Everyone remembers what Lebron just did a few weeks ago smh.

Which is good because a few weeks ago Lebron was playing better than Kobe ever has.

[RazorBaLade]

Makes no sense considering the majority seems to have LeBron's best years as 2009 and 2010 not 2012, which throws that theory out.

people agree kobes best years were 06, do you think winning in 09 had nothing on him being compared to people?

your point is irrelevant and incorrect

[Ketchup]

I think it's easily Lebron in the sense that I don't have to think twice about it. Kobe was great, Lebron is top 5 peak play.
In terms of peak play I'd only take Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Jordan over him. Even a few of those you'd think about.

[raptorfan_dr07]

F*ck both these guys. Kevin Durant will end up surpassing them both. And he'll do it in a small market. He won't have to run to his butt buddies in Miami or demand a trade because he forced out Shaq and Phil and started losing.

[Big_Dogg]

The only way you can compare the 2 is at same times of their career to be honest, early years, prime, later career

Kobe at his prime is probably one of the scariest guys to have to defend, at the prime of his athletic prowess he was just completely unstoppable as Lebron is now, what is going to change the comparison is how Lebron evolves when his athleticism starts to go, Lebron is by far one of the most gifted players both skill and athleticism wise we have probably ever seen, but will he still be the dominant force when his knee's give way, his explosiveness starts to go etc, Kobe knew he had to evolve to be on "That Level" when his athleticism started to drop, and he has evolved greatly from the player he was when he came into the league.

That is when you are truly going to be able to compare the difference between the 2, if Lebron is still dominant after a 17+ year career, hell if he is still dominant after 15 years then possibly a comparison can be made.

Guys like Durant will be up there because of his size and shooting ability, even though Durant is a great athlete with his skill set he will still be able to produce as that athleticism starts to dwindle, when Lebrons athleticism goes and he can't get to the rim as easily, can't do the chase down blocks, can't defend the perimeter like he used to and has to rely on his shooting and basketball IQ to still be effective, will he be as dominant as he is now like Kobe is at this stage of his career, just something to think about.

[arifgokcen]

I think it's easily Lebron in the sense that I don't have to think twice about it. Kobe was great, Lebron is top 5 peak play.
In terms of peak play I'd only take Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Jordan over him. Even a few of those you'd think about.

You are right.Actually among perimeter players only jordan peak was slightly better if not equal.Even though kobe peak was one of the best,in terms of total domination and wins,lebron wins easily.

Total vote count.If i counted right,its like 35-15 in favor of lebron.

[swag2011]

I think it's easily Lebron in the sense that I don't have to think twice about it. Kobe was great, Lebron is top 5 peak play.
In terms of peak play I'd only take Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Jordan over him. Even a few of those you'd think about.

You don't have to think about it because we are experiencing his prime RIGHT NOW. Of course it's easier to say that, seeing how dude just won a chip 3 weeks ago.

People really forgot how Kobe put FEAR into the opponents because they didn't know if he would drop 50 or 60 on you that game. He would outscore teams his ENTIRE self. Double him, triple him, try to cut off lanes, it didn't matter. He would kill you from the perimeter, paint, post, you name it he did it.

Alot of the reason why people are underrating Kobe's peak is because of team success. He played with Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker, guys that aren't even in the league anymore. Can't say the same about any of those other guys' terrible players.

[arifgokcen]

The only way you can compare the 2 is at same times of their career to be honest, early years, prime, later career

Kobe at his prime is probably one of the scariest guys to have to defend, at the prime of his athletic prowess he was just completely unstoppable as Lebron is now, what is going to change the comparison is how Lebron evolves when his athleticism starts to go, Lebron is by far one of the most gifted players both skill and athleticism wise we have probably ever seen, but will he still be the dominant force when his knee's give way, his explosiveness starts to go etc, Kobe knew he had to evolve to be on "That Level" when his athleticism started to drop, and he has evolved greatly from the player he was when he came into the league.

That is when you are truly going to be able to compare the difference between the 2, if Lebron is still dominant after a 17+ year career, hell if he is still dominant after 15 years then possibly a comparison can be made.

Guys like Durant will be up there because of his size and shooting ability, even though Durant is a great athlete with his skill set he will still be able to produce as that athleticism starts to dwindle, when Lebrons athleticism goes and he can't get to the rim as easily, can't do the chase down blocks, can't defend the perimeter like he used to and has to rely on his shooting and basketball IQ to still be effective, will he be as dominant as he is now like Kobe is at this stage of his career, just something to think about.

We are not comparing post-primes.We are comparing peak plays and everyone is talking about kobe dominance after 16 years,however kobe wasnt a superstar until after his 4th season and last two years he wasnt that dominant.He can easily be contained by one defender.Lebron was a superstar in his second season.Dont forget karl malone was much better at the later stage of his career than any other player,in terms of body, injury history lebron is identical to malone only faster,he proved not only that he can play 4,he can dominate any player at 4.After his ath. declines at the age 32-33 he will still be faster and stronger than most if not all PFs.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I hate comparing players that are in different positions. Both players are great but on my team I'd rather have Kobe. I hesitate to call one "better" than the other because there are a lot of different ways to measure who's better. What's important to me might not be important to you and vice versa.

[Ketchup]

You don't have to think about it because we are experiencing his prime RIGHT NOW. Of course it's easier to say that, seeing how dude just won a chip 3 weeks ago.

People really forgot how Kobe put FEAR into the opponents because they didn't know if he would drop 50 or 60 on you that game. He would outscore teams his ENTIRE self. Double him, triple him, try to cut off lanes, it didn't matter. He would kill you from the perimeter, paint, post, you name it he did it.

Alot of the reason why people are underrating Kobe's peak is because of team success. He played with Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker, guys that aren't even in the league anymore. Can't say the same about any of those other guys' terrible players.

That has nothing to do with it. I remember how good LeBron was in 09 and this year, and Kobe wasn't that good. I agree that scoring is the most important part of basketball, yet even with all that, Kobe at his best was not miles ahead of Lebron as a scorer. It's actually quite close, with Lebron being more consistent.
On the other hand, Lebron is a better playmaker, rebounder, defender, all to go along with the fact he's a bigger presence on the game. Bigger, faster, stronger, quicker, etc.

Lebron and Jordan are the best perimeter players to ever play the game. I'd have Bird at 3rd, then Kobe and Magic at 5th.

[raprap]

Kobe fan since 00, saw him at his prime in 03 and gawd mode in 06. But I never saw him play at the level that LeBron has shown us. His failures really overshadow his greatness.


My vote goes to LeBron.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron will go down as the better player in NBA history

[Dukem]

Two different type of players so it's hard to define who was better than who in all honesty.

Kobe does what you expect from a shooting guard: he shoots reasonably well (not as well as he used to though), he does pass when it is needed to (although 2006 Kobe could be argued against my point) and then add on to the fact that he's an ice-cold killer and could close a game that only a few could between 2000-2010 this generation does have a will to win even if his game 7 statistics may show otherwise.

LeBron is great point forward that has elevated his game to become the best player in the league over the last 2 or 3 years. He's a great facilitator that could get everyone involved for wide open looks and has great athleticism (for now). He can close a game out when needed to (ala this year playoffs and vs Detroit in 2007) however not to the extent of Kobe...and when i mean close-out, I don't mean game winners although both have been able to hit plenty of game winners in the past.

They're both two different players and so it's hard to say who is better than who. Best way to rank them is by position when they have finished their careers. Although I must say that i like Kobe a little more than leBron although i'm a fan of both. Also, 2006 Kobe was such a joy to watch and so was game 5 vs Detroit from leBron in 2007.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I think it's easily Lebron in the sense that I don't have to think twice about it. Kobe was great, Lebron is top 5 peak play.
In terms of peak play I'd only take Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Jordan over him. Even a few of those you'd think about.
and Magic.
and David Thompson (remember "peak")
and Kobe ("peak" better scorer and better defender)
and Elgin Baylor
etc etc

[kennethgriffin]

we will never know how great lebron might have been since hes throwing away his great tallent on a team like miami... no one will ever take his accomplishments seriously

nobody believed kobe was as good without shaq because all his success came with him

they all said "lets see him win without another guy as good as shaq"

so he did it

twice


lebron will forever be known as a guy who won with a guy in his prime that was a finals mvp who could average nearly 30/5/5 on his own and make both 1st team all nba's


so until lebron wins with a guy whos half his status... i say he'l never be as good

stats arnt the only thing and can be subjective due to extreme differences in position, height and weight

[Pointguard]

What gets Lebron over the top for me is his team awareness. Plus, he can adjust and be a player on every spot on the court - especially if his shot is on and hit the player that needs to get on. He can be the man or be effective if teams pile up on him and he has to facilitate. He has the most complete game the league has ever seen. He also has great judgement on when to shoot and when not to. At one time Lebron lead the league in 4th quarter scoring and finished as good as anybody in the league - so its in his repertoire - while I do think it got away from him in the recent past.

His versatility is also very deadly and comes with a lot of emphasis. When Lebron steals the ball its a near two points at the other end of the court. When Lebron blocks a shot, it looked like it was a sure two points for the other team. When Lebron rebounded this year, his team really needed it. When Lebron scores a lot, he still is looking to pass. If his outside shot is not falling he drives or now post up. His ability to be a chamililon when he isn't a dragon has a Marvel comic aspect to it. Certainly no shame on Kobe's part, but Lebron is something very special.

[ripthekik]

we will never know how great lebron might have been since hes throwing away his great tallent on a team like miami... no one will ever take his accomplishments seriously

nobody believed kobe was as good without shaq because all his success came with him

they all said "lets see him win without another guy as good as shaq"

so he did it

twice


lebron will forever be known as a guy who won with a guy in his prime that was a finals mvp who could average nearly 30/5/5 on his own and make both 1st team all nba's


so until lebron wins with a guy whos half his status... i say he'l never be as good

stats arnt the only thing and can be subjective due to extreme differences in position, height and weight
this :applause:

[Ketchup]

and Magic.
and David Thompson (remember "peak")
and Kobe ("peak" better scorer and better defender)
and Elgin Baylor
etc etc

Did you just rate David f*cking Thompson over Lebron at his peak?

Of course. I forgot David Thompson on my list. The guy who did nothing better than Lebron at his peak. How did he slip my mind.
Thanks retarded guy for reminding me that David Thompson was better than Lebron at his peak.

[Ketchup]

we will never know how great lebron might have been since hes throwing away his great tallent on a team like miami... no one will ever take his accomplishments seriously

nobody believed kobe was as good without shaq because all his success came with him

they all said "lets see him win without another guy as good as shaq"

so he did it

twice


lebron will forever be known as a guy who won with a guy in his prime that was a finals mvp who could average nearly 30/5/5 on his own and make both 1st team all nba's


so until lebron wins with a guy whos half his status... i say he'l never be as good

stats arnt the only thing and can be subjective due to extreme differences in position, height and weight

Didn't Kobe then win with Pau? Who in those 4 years where Kobe didn't have Shaq, actually led his team to more wins than Kobe did in Memphis in 2 of the 4 years.

[The Iron Fist]

Didn't Kobe then win with Pau? Who in those 4 years where Kobe didn't have Shaq, actually led his team to more wins than Kobe did in Memphis in 2 of the 4 years.
Pau with absolutely zero playoff wins?


Yea, he helped that guy get over the hump and get two rings.

[Dave3]

people agree kobes best years were 06


True.



do you think winning in 09 had nothing on him being compared to people?

This is where you get irrelevant. Winning in '09 had nothing on how his 2006 season was viewed (or shouldn't). Where it did have an effect on him being compared to other people is total career accomplishments and legacy ranking, not peak play. Nothing at all changed with regards to people's perspective on his peak play.




your point is irrelevant
Only if you didn't understand it, which is what it seems like.


and incorrect
That 2009 LeBron > 2012 LeBron? That can't be incorrect because
a) It's an opinion and opinions can't be correct/incorrect
b) It's the majority opinion, so you can't even make the argument that it's not a well founded opinion.

[Ketchup]

Pau with absolutely zero playoff wins?


Yea, he helped that guy get over the hump and get two rings.

It's the same logic.
They could do the same thing without one another, which is the point the poster made.

Post with the same level of ignorance as these guys and you'll enjoy your time here much more instead of taking my posts as my actual thought.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Did anyone vote for Kobe that wasn't 1) A Lakers fan or 2) mentally challenged? :oldlol:

[Indian guy]

I think it's debatable between the best versions of LeBron('09 and '10) and Kobe(06-08, I guess), but that's just me. If you go around the net, it's a no contest. LeBron(post-ring) wins every poll/discussion that pits him against Kobe. Handily.

This is why it was so important for LeBron to never win a ring to Kobe fans. They knew their boy would never be considered better once LeBron got that first one.

[LakersReign]

Did anyone vote for Kobe that wasn't 1) A Lakers fan or 2) mentally challenged? :oldlol:

Being that you have both pauk and lebron23 on your squad, I'd really change #2 if I were you.:facepalm

Just sayin':confusedshrug:

[INDI]

Yes, absolutely. Kobe was a far better scorer in his prime, but LeBron does so much more. It's not a knock on Kobe either.

Kobe may always have the better resume, but LeBron is the better individual talent.

Lebron has a few areas over Kobe but mostly of it stems from his combination of size/strength/athleticism. Think about it, his blocking ability is athleticism and so is his rebounding. His ability to get to the whole is mainly his size and strength ( not to mention the refs calling any kind of contact a blocking foul.

Lebrons only thing over Kobe that wasn't bring about because of his freakish physical ability is his vision. So heck know he's not more talented he was just more physically gifted

[dynasty1978]

Being that you have both pauk and lebron23 on your squad, I'd really change #2 if I were you.:facepalm

Just sayin':confusedshrug:


:oldlol:
/End Thread

[glidedrxlr22]

Being that you have both pauk and lebron23 on your squad, I'd really change #2 if I were you.:facepalm

Just sayin':confusedshrug:

...and I'm just sayin you're an idiot.

-glidedrxlr22 supposedly a.k.a. "astroglide"

[INDI]

Kobe's 81 was like watching michealangelo sculpt. Lebrons can never do that

When Kobe caught the stinger and played the game with only his left hand is stuff of legend

Breaking three point shooting records in a game when you not a three point shooter is stuff of the greats.

I could go on and on and on and on but bottom line Kobe's memorable moments are like 165 to Lebrons 14

[b4uc.23]

I think it's debatable between the best versions of LeBron('09 and '10) and Kobe(06-08, I guess), but that's just me. If you go around the net, it's a no contest. LeBron(post-ring) wins every poll/discussion that pits him against Kobe. Handily.

This is why it was so important for LeBron to never win a ring to Kobe fans. They knew their boy would never be considered better once LeBron got that first one.

This. :rockon:

[Fiasco]

Can we please compare two other players for once

[mehyaM24]

lebron is not only better than kobe,but way better...kobe was carried to titles by prime shaq....

lakers lost the 08 finals because of kobes choking...

he was outscored by james posey in game 4.....in game 6 he was outscored by ray allen and garnett

[INDI]

lebron is not only better than kobe,but way better...kobe was carried to titles by prime shaq....

lakers lost the 08 finals because of kobes choking...

he was outscored by james posey in game 4.....in game 6 he was outscored by ray allen and garnett

Shaq has been carried his entire career by prime wingmen (Kobe,wade,penny,Lebron). Let's not forget playing with Nash and the big 4 in celtics.

I might have to seriously consider taking him out my top ten just for riding coattails his whole career

[SilkkTheShocker]

Being that you have both pauk and lebron23 on your squad, I'd really change #2 if I were you.:facepalm

Just sayin':confusedshrug:

Pauk is a good poster imo. He brings numbers and facts (for the most part) to the table. And I don't just say that becuase he is a Lebron fan. There are Lakers/Kobe fans that I think are good posters also. But Lebron23 is the Allen Iverson of this board when it comes to posting. 40,000 posts maybe 200 of them were good/made a point. He just hides behind other posters arguing for Lebron in debates and a bunch of Lebron statisitics he copies and pastes when needed.

[mehyaM24]

Shaq has been carried his entire career by prime wingmen (Kobe,wade,penny,Lebron). Let's not forget playing with Nash and the big 4 in celtics.

I might have to seriously consider taking him out my top ten just for riding coattails his whole career

.....shaq outscored kobe in all 4 trips to the finals... shaq averaged 38.0 ppg in the 00 finals shaq averaged 36.3 ppg in the 01 finals both of these series ppg averages are higher than kobe has ever done in a series his whole career....and he was on the court watching shaq do it... kobe=carried

[DukeDelonte13]

yes. Lebron has been better than Kobe ever was for a few seasons now.

[Boomerang]

Kobe better than Lebron?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYjQdP_sk6g

[Hoopz2332]

w/o question:pimp:

[Mr Feeny]

Absolutely! :applause: