Howard to Nets is Impossible.

[Richesly]

johnhollinger John Hollinger
One fact covers pretty much every @reply I'm getting: 74.3 million. Hard cap. No exceptions. Once you sign Mirza, that's the rules.



Monster contracts:

Dwill - $20 million
JJ - $19.7 million
Wallace - $10 million

Sub-Total - $49.7 million

---------------------

Smaller contracts:

Lopez - $4.5 million (Qualifying offer but this should end up around $10 million or so, right?)
Brooks - $1.2 million

Sub-Total - $5.7 - $11.2 million

---------------------

Free agent

Humphries - $8 million last year so should get at least that this time

Sub-Total - $8 million (guestimate)

---------------------

Total - $55.4 million (with Lopez at QO and not re-signing Humphries) (5 players under contract)
Total - $63.4 million (with Lopez at QO and re-signing Humphries) (6 players under contract)
Total - $69.2 million (with Lopez re-signed at $10 million and re-signing Humphries) (6 players under contract)

So they're anywhere from $55.4 million to $69.2 million, assuming they keep 2 very valuable players in Lopez and Humphries but they'll still need 7 more players who'll have cap holds.

And they have Mirza that I forgot about so that's another what $6 million?

Oh yeah and I heard they also signed Reggie Evans, is that so?

If there really is a $74.3 million hard cap then there's no way in hell they'd even be able to SnT for Dwight as you'd have to figure Dwight will get $20 million, which would mean damn near $70 million for their 4 highest paid players.

So now that Dwight can't be traded to Brooklyn and he can't sign there as a FA, what does that mean for him as a FA next year? Are we now a real threat to trade or sign for him? I'd guess that the Lakers with Bynum could be our biggest opponent in getting him and maybe the Rockets but I don't see them having anything nearly as good as Horford or Bynum to send to Orlando.



Told you all.

[TMT]

I think this was established much earlier today after the Tezovic signing.

[Richesly]

I think this was established much earlier today after the Tezovic signing.

Punpun refuses to believe.

[BlueCrayon]

I hope he doesn't come.

[GOBB]

Punpun refuses to believe.

So one known idiot on ISH = I told you all. :rolleyes:

[TMT]

Punpun refuses to believe.

The JJ trade was the first straw, at that point you could say maybe they could still get Dwight. But using the MLE up this afternoon pretty much shut the door. I think they've established they aren't getting Dwight and are moving on: Tezovic signing, Reggie Evans pickup, attempting Humphries S&T for Ilyasova. I'd be drastically surprised if these two teams are even still in contact.

[Reverend Hoops]

Which would make the Hawks now frontrunners to get Dwight (FA or trade)

http://www.footbasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nba_g_cpjsdhts_576.jpg

Not four, not five, not six....

[ispin69]

Dwight for Amare Stoudemire. Wasn't the original pact between Mello, Dwight and CP3? No way to get CP3 to NY even if they did a sign and trade for Chandler at the end of season, way too over the cap.

[WeGetRing2012]

I really wish someone would tell Broussard :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[boozehound]

where is there this idea of a hard cap? thanks for getting your facts wrong. That was basically the one thing the players won in the last cba.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q2

[Richesly]

Which would make the Hawks now frontrunners to get Dwight (FA or trade)

http://www.footbasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nba_g_cpjsdhts_576.jpg

Not four, not five, not six....


That would be a way better big 3 than Boston's or Miami's big 3.

[flipogb]

whatever will let you sleep tonight

[TMT]

Which would make the Hawks now frontrunners to get Dwight (FA or trade)

http://www.footbasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nba_g_cpjsdhts_576.jpg

Not four, not five, not six....


CP3 not happening. Wouldn't be surprised if Dwight caves in to his boy J-Smoove though and heads home.

[G-Funk]

Only Net fans/Dwight/ESPN Idiots think Dwight to Brooklyn is still possible. lol

[boozehound]

That would be a way better big 3 than Boston's or Miami's big 3.
says the dude with the hawks avy. again, address the fact that your OP is entirely false. As long as the nets are willing to pay luxury (and then some after next season), the trade is entirely possible (presuming the magic are willing). Now, trade is the only way thanks to dwight being a dingbat, but its entirely possibly under the cba. go read it.

[Richesly]

CP3 not happening. Wouldn't be surprised if Dwight caves in to his boy J-Smoove though and heads home.


Why not CP3? He's from the south and it would be close to his home. CP3 also wanted to play in Atlanta at the start of his career, even when they sucked.


Not everything changes, besides Atlanta sucking of course.

[ispin69]

Josh Smith is weak just like Joe Johnson. :mad:

[bagelred]

I had a post on this earlier today. Even before they signed Transylvecoivic, it seemed impossible.

[TMT]

Why not CP3? He's from the south and it would be close to his home. CP3 also wanted to play in Atlanta at the start of his career, even when they sucked.


Not everything changes, besides Atlanta sucking of course.

Reports lately have been saying he is very commited to the Clippers. I see him signing an extension before he even becomes a free agent next season. Even if he were to leave it would be for NY. It's possible... just not likely.

[boozehound]

Reports lately have been saying he is very commited to the Clippers. I see him signing an extension before he even becomes a free agent next season. Even if he were to leave it would be for NY. It's possible... just not likely.
how would he leave for NY? The clippers would have to agree to trade him for melo or some such (no way they take amar'e back)

[joshwake]

who wrote that trash? They can do it but they will be in luxury tax for the next.... who knows, but they have an owner that is willing to spend. What is this about a hard cap? There is no hard cap....

edit: I see Boozehound beat me to it. One of the few level headed posters on these boards

[TMT]

how would he leave for NY? The clippers would have to agree to trade him for melo or some such (no way they take amar'e back)

Not saying he would head there, but that's his only other preferred destination. If he wanted to I'm sure he could find a way to force himself there though. :confusedshrug:

[Meticode]

Weird, ESPN said it was possible because of the resigning of Deron his salary can be allowed to put them over the luxary tax by like $20 million. Something the Russian said he doesn't mind paying. If he gets Howard that is.

Take that with a grain of salt though. It's ESPN.

[joshwake]

It is only possible if a 3rd team is involved.

[Brickz187]

It's improbable, not impossible.

[niko]

where is there this idea of a hard cap? thanks for getting your facts wrong. That was basically the one thing the players won in the last cba.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q2
No, he's right. It's why the Knicks can't give nash the full mid level, a hard ceiling kicks in.

[fatboy11]

For a fact, this is not impossible.

Try again.

[Zodiac]

says the dude with the hawks avy. again, address the fact that your OP is entirely false. As long as the nets are willing to pay luxury (and then some after next season), the trade is entirely possible (presuming the magic are willing). Now, trade is the only way thanks to dwight being a dingbat, but its entirely possibly under the cba. go read it.
I'm not a cap expert in the NBA, but I'm pretty sure hard cap=you can't in anyway surpass this cap and must be under it.

[boozehound]

No, he's right. It's why the Knicks can't give nash the full mid level, a hard ceiling kicks in.
niko, you are smarter than this. go read the cba or coon's faq or any other informed opinion. THERE IS NO HARD CAP. The reason you cant offer a free agent the full MLE is because they changed that for teams over the tax to the mini mid-level. it doesnt mean you couldnt trade to put your team further into the luxury.

[niko]

Go to twitter and search 74 million.

[boozehound]

I'm not a cap expert in the NBA, but I'm pretty sure hard cap=you can't in anyway surpass this cap and must be under it.
THERE IS NO HARD CAP! except my caps locks apparently. This was basically the one point where the players association won.

[niko]

niko, you are smarter than this. go read the cba or coon's faq or any other informed opinion. THERE IS NO HARD CAP. The reason you cant offer a free agent the full MLE is because they changed that for teams over the tax to the mini mid-level. it doesnt mean you couldnt trade to put your team further into the luxury.
Go search 74 million and read Larry Coons post.

[boozehound]

Go to twitter and search 74 million.
I will take a reading of the CBA (which is readily available) and Larry Coon's FAQ over a bunch of twitards retweeting each others cocks thank you.

[SMoKe0uT]

That would be a way better big 3 than Boston's or Miami's big 3.


:lol :roll: :lol

[niko]

I will take a reading of the CBA (which is readily available) and Larry Coon's FAQ over a bunch of twitards retweeting each others cocks thank you.
It's him posting. I learned it from him. It is a big issue for my team.

[boozehound]

Go search 74 million and read Larry Coons post.
you (and many others) are misunderstanding the situation.
Larry Coon
They still have Jeff Green’s Bird rights, so they can offer him any amount they want. He won’t be a restricted free agent, but in the big picture, I don’t think that’s such a big deal.

The new Mid-Level is actually THREE Mid-Levels in the new agreement. A team can get only one of the three in any given year. Non-taxpayers get $5 million, just like in the old agreement (and four year contracts). Since they’re trying to penalize taxpayers, they made the “taxpayer” Mid-Level smaller — it’s about $3 million, and can be used on three year contracts (but the dividing line between the taxpayer and non-taxpayer versions isn’t right at the tax line, it’s $4 million above — a point they call the “apron”).

The big gotcha here is that if a team is under the tax level and spends the full “non-taxpayer” Mid-Level, they’re committing themselves to being non-taxpayers for the rest of the year (at least, not going more than $4 million over the tax line). So any team that spends more than $3 million in Mid-Level money is saddled with a hard cap of around $74 million for that season. For a team like the Knicks, this can be a big deal.

The third mid-level is given to teams that clear enough cap room to sign free agents. Once they get their team salary back to the salary cap, they’re given a mid-level exception, called the “Room” Mid-Level, for $2.5 million. from

I dont think this applies when they are re-signing and trading their own free agents.
We shall see. Personally, I think this is other teams grasping at straws.

[niko]

you (and many others) are misunderstanding the situation. from

I dont think this applies when they are re-signing and trading their own free agents.
We shall see. Personally, I think this is other teams grasping at straws.
It would stop us from resigning Lin we were told. If that's wrong, there is a ton of misinformation out there. What you posted says hard cap of 74 million.

[boozehound]

It would stop us from resigning Lin we were told. If that's wrong, there is a ton of misinformation out there. What you posted says hard cap of 74 million.
well, first, they didnt use any of the three MLEs. They just signed him for a similar value. Am I wrong in this? They are so far under the cap that I dont see how they even have access to a MLE, even with cap holds. and, if they didnt use the full MLE than this is all just people talking about nothing.

Now, with the knicks, that may be different since you guys are clearly over the cap. Meh, Lin is vastly overrated anyways.

[boozehound]

well, first, they didnt use any of the three MLEs. They just signed him for a similar value. Am I wrong in this? They are so far under the cap that I dont see how they even have access to a MLE, even with cap holds. and, if they didnt use the full MLE than this is all just people talking about nothing.

Now, with the knicks, that may be different since you guys are clearly over the cap. Meh, Lin is vastly overrated anyways.
again, if they had cap space (which they clearly do, even with cap holds) the whole using the non-taxpayers MLE is not an issue, since they dont have access to any of the MLEs.

[niko]

well, first, they didnt use any of the three MLEs. They just signed him for a similar value. Am I wrong in this? They are so far under the cap that I dont see how they even have access to a MLE, even with cap holds. and, if they didnt use the full MLE than this is all just people talking about nothing.

Now, with the knicks, that may be different since you guys are clearly over the cap. Meh, Lin is vastly overrated anyways.
The nets used the full MLE to sign someone. Because of cap holds, they do not have space under the cap. If there is a difference I wish someone would explain it.

[Knicksfever2010]

It's him posting. I learned it from him. It is a big issue for my team.

your team? are you the owner of the knicks? figures

[boozehound]

The nets used the full MLE to sign someone. Because of cap holds, they do not have space under the cap. If there is a difference I wish someone would explain it.
huh, I need an updated salary count for them. As it is,they have ~5 mil for the brookses (QO on lopez and Marshons salary), 10 mill for crash, 19 mill for JJ, and whatever the williams deal is. thats at best 55 million (assuming 5 years at 20 mill each for williams, which is clearly high based on the max structure). probably a good 6 million under the unknown salary cap for 2012-2013. subtract the 5.odd for lopez and brooks and through in the bird rights to humphries and I dont see the concern. It doesnt seem like they are close enough to the unknown cap to use a MLE, even if dudes deal is structured as such.

[Zodiac]

huh, I need an updated salary count for them. As it is,they have ~5 mil for the brookses (QO on lopez and Marshons salary), 10 mill for crash, 19 mill for JJ, and whatever the williams deal is. thats at best 55 million (assuming 5 years at 20 mill each for williams, which is clearly high based on the max structure). probably a good 6 million under the unknown salary cap for 2012-2013. subtract the 5.odd for lopez and brooks and through in the bird rights to humphries and I dont see the concern. It doesnt seem like they are close enough to the unknown cap to use a MLE, even if dudes deal is structured as such.
Don't forget they used to full MLE on Teletovich and did a S&T for Reggie Evans. they'd be toeing the line with Dwight

[niko]

huh, I need an updated salary count for them. As it is,they have ~5 mil for the brookses (QO on lopez and Marshons salary), 10 mill for crash, 19 mill for JJ, and whatever the williams deal is. thats at best 55 million (assuming 5 years at 20 mill each for williams, which is clearly high based on the max structure). probably a good 6 million under the unknown salary cap for 2012-2013. subtract the 5.odd for lopez and brooks and through in the bird rights to humphries and I dont see the concern. It doesnt seem like they are close enough to the unknown cap to use a MLE, even if dudes deal is structured as such.
They'll need to use it because signing their own free agents will take the cap space though, no? They can't use the space for telovic, then resign Lopez and hump, right?

Very complicated.

[boozehound]

I also dont see how this "hard" cap works when they dont have players under contract. so, basically, if you have 10 players signed for 74 million, you cant fill your minimum roster at vet mins? you just forfeit the season for not being able to field a team? Sounds like crap to me.


even so,
lets look at this.
10 crash
19 JJ
16.5 williams (approximate of 5 year, 98 million with 7.5% raises.
5.6 bosnian kid (clearly less, since this is an average of all three years with no raises)

still only 41 odd million, well under the salary cap, even with the brookses. Am I missing a player they have under contract or a QO or caphold out to?


ahh, forgot the ball grabber. even so. hes at less than 2 mil. with all of it, its still something like 48 million for crash, jj, williams, bosnia, brookses (who whill be traded), and evans. throw in a cap hold of 150% on hump (12 mill, which will be traded for dwight) and they still have plenty of wiggle room. Much ado about nothing by the "media", which is basically a half informed hype machine.

[hawkfan]

The Nyets can still trade for Howard - Wallace, Lopez, Brooks and 3 first round picks.

The salaries should add up.

[magnax1]

Here's what I found about the hard cap
"The bottom line is this, without getting into too much detail… Any team that uses the full $5 million midlevel exception MAY NOT, under ANY circumstances, have a payroll in 2012-2013 that exceeds $74 million."
Don't know if anyones said this already, but whatever.

[DirtySanchez]

The Nyets can still trade for Howard - Wallace, Lopez, Brooks and 3 first round picks.

The salaries should add up.
Ya get Lopez at max contracts is the best deal ever!!!!

And those picks will be late.

I can't stand people saying this....but but it's possible.
It's like trading a BMW for a Ford Escape that has hella miles on it.

[I<3NBA]

hard cap? hard cap? :yaohappy: that's the one thing the owners complained they weren't able to get after the lockout. how many idiots will believe this rumor instead of going straight for the CBA and reading it themselves?

hard cap my ass :lol

it was the one thing i was pissed about after that lockout. that a hard cap wasn't implemented.

[CelticBaller]

luxury tax :hammerhead:

[bmulls]

Ok so does anybody know for sure what the deal is here? Can they somehow acquire Dwight or not?

[Punpun]

This guy is working under the assumption they will keep all those player AND sign D12. That's not what is being discussed by the Magic and Nets.

[R.I.P.]

Ok so does anybody know for sure what the deal is here? Can they somehow acquire Dwight or not?

Seems to be that they can acquire Dwight under the 74.3 hardcap, that kicks in if they sign the Bosnian to the MLE. But their roster would have to be the five starters Deron, JJ, Crash, Teletovic, Howard plus ten rookies at the rookie minimum (so all undrafted) as a bench.

[niko]

hard cap? hard cap? :yaohappy: that's the one thing the owners complained they weren't able to get after the lockout. how many idiots will believe this rumor instead of going straight for the CBA and reading it themselves?

hard cap my ass :lol

it was the one thing i was pissed about after that lockout. that a hard cap wasn't implemented.
It says it in the cba. Read the thread.

[niko]

I also dont see how this "hard" cap works when they dont have players under contract. so, basically, if you have 10 players signed for 74 million, you cant fill your minimum roster at vet mins? you just forfeit the season for not being able to field a team? Sounds like crap to me.


even so,
lets look at this.
10 crash
19 JJ
16.5 williams (approximate of 5 year, 98 million with 7.5% raises.
5.6 bosnian kid (clearly less, since this is an average of all three years with no raises)

still only 41 odd million, well under the salary cap, even with the brookses. Am I missing a player they have under contract or a QO or caphold out to?


ahh, forgot the ball grabber. even so. hes at less than 2 mil. with all of it, its still something like 48 million for crash, jj, williams, bosnia, brookses (who whill be traded), and evans. throw in a cap hold of 150% on hump (12 mill, which will be traded for dwight) and they still have plenty of wiggle room. Much ado about nothing by the "media", which is basically a half informed hype machine.
Are you planning on paying Dwight and Turk when you receive them?

[Bosnian Sajo]

Josh Smith and Dwight Howard would be a crazy front court..

[It's A VC3!!!]

Yeah the Nets would have to get a third team and give out a lot of salaries. Someone did the numbers and came up with the best possible trade and the Nets were 1.1 million over the hard cap. That's heart stopping right there.


My food is ready! Here I come bacon.egg.cheese sandwich!

[boozehound]

Are you planning on paying Dwight and Turk when you receive them?

my bad. didnt get that. it will be interesting.

dwight is 19.25. It all clearly fits under 74 million with those players.

besides, if you were at 74 million with 10 players, you couldnt go beyond to sign players at the vet or league minimum? you would just forfeit the season because you cant field the legally mandated minimum roster? Doesnt make sense.


take that 41 million, throw in say 10 million for hump (clearly not what hes getting), then subtract the 15.5 million for hump and the brookses (outgoing for DHo). You are left with about 43 million on the books, plus howard for 19. Still well under the 74 million.


it doesnt make any sense that the actually used the MLE (which they clearly dont have), even if the dudes deal is structured as such. I think people (including the sports reporters = not journalists) saw the # and assumed it had to be the MLE. But, agian, after the trades, they only have the players listed above and its clearly well under the cap, especially if they trade the three players for howard. they would be at about 60 million with jj, dwill, dho, crash, bosnia, and ballgrabber.

[Pink Tigress]

They can still trade for Dwight. Some of the guys they've signed over the past few days are going to eventually be used as trade pieces.

[D-Rose]

You can't trade guys you've signed until about December, plus which of the signings would be enticing to ORL?

[Pink Tigress]

You can't trade guys you've signed until about December, plus which of the signings would be enticing to ORL?

They are in no rush to move Dwight plus they have until the trade deadline in February to find a deal. Dwight will change his mind a few times between now and the deadline.

[niko]

my bad. didnt get that. it will be interesting.

dwight is 19.25. It all clearly fits under 74 million with those players.

besides, if you were at 74 million with 10 players, you couldnt go beyond to sign players at the vet or league minimum? you would just forfeit the season because you cant field the legally mandated minimum roster? Doesnt make sense.


take that 41 million, throw in say 10 million for hump (clearly not what hes getting), then subtract the 15.5 million for hump and the brookses (outgoing for DHo). You are left with about 43 million on the books, plus howard for 19. Still well under the 74 million.


it doesnt make any sense that the actually used the MLE (which they clearly dont have), even if the dudes deal is structured as such. I think people (including the sports reporters = not journalists) saw the # and assumed it had to be the MLE. But, agian, after the trades, they only have the players listed above and its clearly well under the cap, especially if they trade the three players for howard. they would be at about 60 million with jj, dwill, dho, crash, bosnia, and ballgrabber.

They have to sign there own players or the traded guys first, which is why they need the MLE. And no, you can't go over to sign minimum guys, you'd need to literally waive players.

[niko]

The nets already know a trad isn't happening, why else would they sign all this salary blocking a trade?

Btw Larry coon is discussing this right now on twitter,nalthough because he is desparate for the nets to get Howard, he keeps acting like the Croatian guys signing is just a rumor

[It's A VC3!!!]

The CBA is so difficult to understand that it hurts my brain.

This was posted an hour ago by ESPN. It states that Dwight Howard could still be a Net.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/8125453/orlando-magic-dwight-howard-go-brooklyn-nets-sources-say


I believe that Billy King is making one more futile attempt in obtaining Dwight Howard. Rob, you dumbass, make it happen and stop sucking your thumb. Everybody is getting impatient with your ass.


Let me know what he Coon says please.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well however impossible it may seem, I believe the Nets will be staying in the hunt till its all over. We will see what happens then, too early to tell.

[niko]

The CBA is so difficult to understand that it hurts my brain.

This was posted an hour ago by ESPN. It states that Dwight Howard could still be a Net.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/8125453/orlando-magic-dwight-howard-go-brooklyn-nets-sources-say


I believe that Billy King is making one more futile attempt in obtaining Dwight Howard. Rob, you dumbass, make it happen and stop sucking your thumb. Everybody is getting impatient with your ass.




Let me know what he Coon says please.
Basically it's impossible unless some of the terms in contract given are different. To be honest, I think he wants the trade to occur. Ask him a question on Bynum and he makes fun of the lakers chances.:lol

[niko]

Larry coon is a net fan? He explains it's impossible but when asked qualifies it. Sound like Punpun.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Basically it's impossible unless some of the terms in contract given are different. To be honest, I think he wants the trade to occur. Ask him a question on Bynum and he makes fun of the lakers chances.:lol

I know Gerald is taking about 7-8 million the first year which would shed 2-3 million. Maybe that could be the difference in obtaining Dwight.

I want the trade to occur too. We need a championship in NY and with this trade the Nets will make that happen.

[The Choken One]

LOL @ the Net fans reaching hardcore in this thread...

Dwight is going to be a Hawk if I had to bet money. He doesn't want to follow in Shaq's shadow so that gives the Lakers a small shot, but the Hawks he & Smith can do work and sign another big time free agent next off-season.

I'd say the Mavs...but I think Orlando is going to deal him no matter what and not wait until next season. So...unless he doesn't sign an extension that's not a possibility.

umad Net fans?

[Kiddlovesnets]

LOL @ the Net fans reaching hardcore in this thread...

Dwight is going to be a Hawk if I had to bet money. He doesn't want to follow in Shaq's shadow so that gives the Lakers a small shot, but the Hawks he & Smith can do work and sign another big time free agent next off-season.

I'd say the Mavs...but I think Orlando is going to deal him no matter what and not wait until next season. So...unless he doesn't sign an extension that's not a possibility.

umad Net fans?

We aint mad, at least we aint stuck with a 34 years old washed-up superstar. Everyone on this rosters can play, what else do we expect?
:lol

[tomtucker]

Larry coon............:eek: ......... :oldlol:

[niko]

I know Gerald is taking about 7-8 million the first year which would shed 2-3 million. Maybe that could be the difference in obtaining Dwight.

I want the trade to occur too. We need a championship in NY and with this trade the Nets will make that happen.
I don't think the Nets thought this can happen. I have trouble believing the Nets are close to Howard, but instead clogged their cap with JJ and set a hard cap with the Croation guy. Making the trade 1,000 times harder. If Howard was coming, they would not have done that.