'03 Duncan vs '12 Lebron?

[oolalaa]

Duncan, 2003:

http://atolemdro.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/tim-duncan-933.jpg

- 23/13/4 & 3blks on 52% shooting in the regular season
- Led San Antonio to 60 wins
- All-NBA 1st team
- All-Defensive 1st team
- MVP

- 25/15/5 & 4blks on 53% shooting in the playoffs
- 24/17/5 & 5blks on 50% shooting in the finals (21/20/10 triple double to close it out)
- Finals MVP


Lebron, 2012:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1106/nba-finals-mvp/images/lebron-james-gallery.jpg

- 27/8/6 & 2stls on 55% shooting in the regular season
- Led Miami to 46 wins (Equivalent of 56/57 wins)
- All-NBA 1st team
- All-Defensive 1st team
- MVP

- 30/10/6 & 2stls on 52% shooting in the playoffs
- 29/10/7 & 2stls on 48% shooting in the finals (26/11/13 triple double to close it out)
- Finals MVP


?


They're VERY close. I can't work it out....

[oolalaa]

Bumpity bump

[Freedom Kid7]

'03 Duncan. Not even close.
Sure, Lebron finished with a triple double clinching game, but Timmy almost got a quad double in Game 6 of the finals. Plus, Tim's teammates weren't as good as Lebron's.

[BlackVVaves]

'03 Duncan. Not even close.
Sure, Lebron finished with a triple double clinching game, but Timmy almost got a quad double in Game 6 of the finals. Plus, Tim's teammates weren't as good as Lebron's.

How is it not even close?

[Lebron23]

LBJ

[KobesFinger]

Gotta go with Timmy D. He played better teams. Not a knock on LeBron or anything. But the '03 Suns, Lakers and Mavs are better than the '12 Knicks, Pacers and Celtics. The '12 Thunder are better than the '03 Nets though.

Duncan almost had a quad-double in Game 6 of the Finals

[LEFT4DEAD]

'03 Duncan. Not even close.
Sure, Lebron finished with a triple double clinching game, but Timmy almost got a quad double in Game 6 of the finals. Plus, Tim's teammates weren't as good as Lebron's.
TD for me also, but to say its not even close is just idiotic. Both faced great competition, even though Tim faced weak team in the finals. On the other side Miami were not even favourites to win it against OKC. Both had many classy games, both played terrific defense, both played with almost the same support, if we take in consideration that Bosh and Wade were injured and below expectations.

Really close, but I would take TD just because I'm big fan of him.

[pauk]

Its extremly close in every way....

[oolalaa]

'03 Duncan. Not even close.
Sure, Lebron finished with a triple double clinching game, but Timmy almost got a quad double in Game 6 of the finals. Plus, Tim's teammates weren't as good as Lebron's.

We're comparing Timmy and Lebron, not their teammates. And besides, Wade was a shell of his usual self the whole season and Bosh missed a BIG chunck of the playoffs.

[ducktape]

tim duncan not even close

[oolalaa]

tim duncan not even close

:roll: At these "not even close" comments. It's as close as it gets.

[I LUV KOBE]

Timmy aint even close.. Only Lebrontard will choose Lebrick over Duncan.

[pauk]

Duncan had worse teammates huh? Why do people keep dreaming this up?

Here is the truth:

Duncans supporting cast in playoffs: 70.1 PPG, 30.2 RPG, 15.5 APG, 7.2 SPG, 3.6 BPG

Lebrons supporting cast in playoffs: 64.6 PPG, 30.6 RPG, 12.1 APG, 5.2 SPG, 3.9 BPG


Lebron had 3 guys in double figures, where as 1 didnt play so much in playoffs (Bosh) and Duncan had almost 4 guys in double figures, none who missed a single game... he had also David Robinson who is much bigger & better than any "Center" Lebron has....

Duncan had also GREG POPOVICH... do i really need to compare the differences between him and Spoelstra?

Duncan had a more productive / deeper team...

Lebron got to the Finals practically without Bosh aswell, which is 14 ppg less on the supporting cast column... he averaged 34-11-4 in ECF...

Lebron had a PER much higher than Tim Duncan had this playoff run by averaging 30/10/6/2/1 @ 50% FG.... he led everybody in 4th quarter scoring, clutch stats....

Lebron also never played a bad game, ALWAYS stepped up when the team needed him the most.... sometimes in historic fashion (Game 6 Celtics - 45-15-5 @ 73% FG)

Basically Lebron performed better than Duncan while having a less productive supporting cast....... what the hell more do you want????


If ANYBODY between 03 Duncan and 12 Lebron had a better playoff run then it is Lebron............... show me any facts to why it should be the opposite? Because i cant find any....

[Duncan21formvp]

Bumpity bump
This is Tim Duncan handily. Duncan was the only player on his team who made the allstar team that year and beat the 3x defending champions Lakers in the process. Lebron managed to get to the finals because 2 of the top 5 players in the league were out for the entire playoffs.

[I LUV KOBE]

I love sucking Lebron's dick. :lol
:wtf:

[ripthekik]

This is Tim Duncan handily. Duncan was the only player on his team who made the allstar team that year and beat the 3x defending champions Lakers in the process. Lebron managed to get to the finals because 2 of the top 5 players in the league were out for the entire playoffs.
Not this mention Lebron had a top 3 SG and top 5 PF.

Duncan 03 all day long.
Only ones thinking it's close are Lebron fans.

[oolalaa]

This is Tim Duncan handily. Duncan was the only player on his team who made the allstar team that year and beat the 3x defending champions Lakers in the process. Lebron managed to get to the finals because 2 of the top 5 players in the league were out for the entire playoffs.

Let's try and put their supporting casts to one side. In a vacuum, who was the better overall player? Who would you start a team with?

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan had worse teammates huh? Why do people keep dreaming this up?

Here is the truth:

Duncans supporting cast in playoffs: 70.1 PPG, 30.2 RPG, 15.5 APG, 7.2 SPG, 3.6 BPG

Lebrons supporting cast in playoffs: 64.6 PPG, 30.6 RPG, 12.1 APG, 5.2 SPG, 3.9 BPG


Lebron had 3 guys in double figures, where as 1 didnt play so much in playoffs (Bosh) and Duncan had almost 4 guys in double figures, none who missed a single game... he had also David Robinson who is much bigger & better than any "Center" Lebron has....

Duncan had also GREG POPOVICH... do i really need to compare the differences between him and Spoelstra?

Duncan had a more productive / deeper team...

Lebron got to the Finals practically without Bosh aswell, which is 14 ppg less on the supporting cast column... he averaged 34-11-4 in ECF...

Lebron had a PER much higher than Tim Duncan had this playoff run by averaging 30/10/6/2/1 @ 50% FG.... he led everybody in 4th quarter scoring, clutch stats....

Lebron also never played a bad game, ALWAYS stepped up when the team needed him the most.... sometimes in historic fashion (Game 6 Celtics - 45-15-5 @ 73% FG)

Basically Lebron performed better than Duncan while having a less productive supporting cast....... what the hell more do you want????


If ANYBODY between 03 Duncan and 12 Lebron had a better playoff run then it is Lebron............... show me any facts to why it should be the opposite? Because i cant find any....

Duncan was better than Lebron by a good margin. Duncan was the only allstar on his team, Lebron had 2 other allstars on his team. Duncan was the only player on his team at the time who won finals mvp, Lebron had Wade who won finals mvp and a better playoffs/finals performer than Lebron himself.

You are using PER here??? Really with 2 top 5 players out of the playoffs and everyone else virtually old outside of Durant?
In 2003 you had prime Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Dirk, Kobe, Tmac, Pierce all in the playoffs. Now you see how much or tougher it is to have a higher PER with all of those guys playing in there primes than it is with guys like Danny Granger and Andre Iguodala as the main competition.

[chazzy]

pauk just said 03 Duncan had a better cast than '12 Lebron. Never go full pauk

[pauk]

This is Tim Duncan handily. Duncan was the only player on his team who made the allstar team that year and beat the 3x defending champions Lakers in the process. Lebron managed to get to the finals because 2 of the top 5 players in the league were out for the entire playoffs.

Why should name value matter when Duncans supporting cast was more productive... :confusedshrug:

Duncans 4 guys in the starting lineup outproduced Lebrons 4 in points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, had less turnovers and higher shooting percentage..... what excuse do you want to come with now?

As far as the competition goes, the only better team Duncan faced was the Lakers in the 2nd round... who choked like hell

[Duncan21formvp]

Let's try and put their supporting casts to one side. In a vacuum, who was the better overall player? Who would you start a team with?
Duncan easily. Duncan took a franchise that never won anything prior to him arriving and turned them into a dynasty.
Lebron had to join forces with a proven winner in a city that already won a title with Wade around.

[ripthekik]

Let's try and put their supporting casts to one side. In a vacuum, who was the better overall player? Who would you start a team with?
Tim Duncan all day long baby.
Lebron by himself = choking deep in the playoffs

And I think we've all 'witnessed' that..

[pauk]

pauk just said 03 Duncan had a better cast than '12 Lebron. Never go full pauk

I didnt say that.. facts said that... there is a huge difference between an opinion and a fact...

Its more like... Chazzy just ignored very many facts and failed to give his take on this topic without a single fact or hell not even his own opinion...

Never go full Chazzy

[oolalaa]

Duncan easily. Duncan took a franchise that never won anything prior to him arriving and turned them into a dynasty.
Lebron had to join forces with a proven winner in a city that already won a title with Wade around.

You didn't properly answer the question, and cut the "easily" crap out if you want people to take you seriously.

IGNORING ALL CIRCUMSTANCE BEYOND THE BASKETBALL COURT, WHO WAS THE BETTER PLAYER?

[pauk]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vpfzMA5eWgw/TxIArTqNROI/AAAAAAAAAfA/uI6iptP3s_A/s1600/f%253Dfact5.gif




Its a very impossible task my dear beloved Lebron haters...

[Nash]

Give me the guy with more points and assists, defense and pure dominance.

There is a reason why Lebron is regarded as one of the most talented players of all time. Even his biggest hater Skip Bayless says so.

[oolalaa]

Tim Duncan all day long baby.
Lebron by himself = choking deep in the playoffs

And I think we've all 'witnessed' that..

Wade was just about as good as Pau Gasol was in '09 and '10 for Kobe. Bosh was on Lamar Odom's level in the playoffs, too. Go watch game 6 IN Boston, again, and get back to me on how much "help" Lebron "needed". Thanks.

[Duncan21formvp]

You didn't properly answer the question, and cut the "easily" crap out if you want people to take you seriously.

IGNORING ALL CIRCUMSTANCE BEYOND THE BASKETBALL COURT, WHO WAS THE BETTER PLAYER?
I never said "easily" I said Tim Duncan "handily" and I explained why.

[ripthekik]

IGNORING ALL CIRCUMSTANCE BEYOND THE BASKETBALL COURT, WHO WAS THE BETTER PLAYER?
You created a thread that wanted to compare 2 specific playoff performances, and now you switch to this shiit
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Odinn]

Give me the guy with more points and assists, defense and pure dominance.

There is a reason why Lebron is regarded as one of the most talented players of all time. Even his biggest hater Skip Bayless says so.
2012 LeBron is a better defender than 2003 Duncan?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[oolalaa]

I never said "easily" I said Tim Duncan "handily" and I explained why.

You said "easily" :hammerhead: :hammerhead: and you STILL havn't explained what made Duncan a better player than Lebron. I'll start you off - even though Lebron was one of the best and most versatile defenders in the league last season, his defensive value wasn't as great as Duncan's, purely because big men who can "anchor" a defense will always be more valuable than the great defensive wing players....

Your turn....

[Nash]

2012 LeBron is a better defender than 2003 Duncan?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
27/8/6 & 2stls on 55% shooting.

Notice the 55% by a perimeter player.

[oolalaa]

You created a thread that wanted to compare 2 specific playoff performances, and now you switch to this shiit
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Where did I say I was comparing their playoff performances?? :roll: :hammerhead:

I simply said, '03 Duncan or '12 Lebron? Can't you read properly?

[Kblaze8855]

Duncan had worse teammates huh? Why do people keep dreaming this up?

Even as someone who has held aprofound disrespect for Chris Bosh for years and likes to point out that hemissed half the playoffs.....and someone who doesnt think Wade played like Wade...

The idea that 03 Duncan had as much help as 12 Lebron is one of the wrongest wrongs that ever wronged.

[ripthekik]

Where did I say I was comparing their playoff performances?? :roll: :hammerhead:

I simply said, '03 Duncan or '12 Lebron? Can't you read properly?
So you're gonna compare the Lebron who had the helpof TOP2SG Wade and TOP 5 PF Bosh throughout this season? uhhhhh

DUNCAN

[StateOfMind12]

'03 Duncan although I am not as impressed as '03 Duncan's run as many people are. He was actually really lucky that season with all the injuries his opponents faced in the post-season. Webber was injured in the WCSF against Dallas and was ruled out for the playoffs for the Kings, Dirk was out in the WCF when the Mavericks played the Spurs, Kobe suffered a shoulder injury, Devean George suffered an injury that hurt him, and Rick Fox was out for the the post-season for the Lakers.

If LeBron's opponents didn't suffer as many injuries as well then I probably would say '12 Lebron's run was better especially considering how one of his stars Chris Bosh was hurt and out for about half of the post-season.

[Odinn]

27/8/6 & 2stls on 55% shooting.

Notice the 55% by a perimeter player.
And this has nothing to do with being a better defensive player.:oldlol: :roll: Idiot. You can not even read. Why do you care to post...:roll: :roll:

[Linspired]

'03 Duncan although I am not as impressed as '03 Duncan's run as many people are. He was actually really lucky that season with all the injuries his opponents faced in the post-season. Webber was injured in the WCSF against Dallas and was ruled out for the playoffs for the Kings, Dirk was out in the WCF when the Mavericks played the Spurs, Kobe suffered a shoulder injury, Devean George suffered an injury that hurt him, and Rick Fox was out for the the post-season for the Lakers.

If LeBron's opponents didn't suffer as many injuries as well then I probably would say '12 Lebron's run was better especially considering how one of his stars Chris Bosh was hurt and out for about half of the post-season.

bron played dysfunctional knicks, gritty but not talented pacers, and very old old celtics. only reason things got tougher against celtics is because bosh was out. okc is great, but then harden took vacation early, and durant decided he wasn't ready.

bron's road was definitely easier.

[LEFT4DEAD]

bron played dysfunctional knicks, gritty but not talented pacers, and very old old celtics. only reason things got tougher against celtics is because bosh was out. okc is great, but then harden took vacation early, and durant decided he wasn't ready.

bron's road was definitely easier.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Nothing to do with Lebron playing godly? Get over it already.

[NumberSix]

King

[Duncan21formvp]

You said "easily" :hammerhead: :hammerhead: and you STILL havn't explained what made Duncan a better player than Lebron. I'll start you off - even though Lebron was one of the best and most versatile defenders in the league last season, his defensive value wasn't as great as Duncan's, purely because big men who can "anchor" a defense will always be more valuable than the great defensive wing players....

Your turn....

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7527580&postcount=14


This is Tim Duncan handily. Duncan was the only player on his team who made the allstar team that year and beat the 3x defending champions Lakers in the process. Lebron managed to get to the finals because 2 of the top 5 players in the league were out for the entire playoffs.

[oolalaa]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7527580&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7527611&postcount=21

:facepalm :oldlol:

[Sakkreth]

Ver very close, might give slight slight edge to LeBron. Those comaprisons of different position players are really hard to tell.

[Timmy D for MVP]

As the anchor Duncan has a greater effect on defense. This was back in his ridiculously elite defensive days. Like legendary good on defense.

Not to mention that Tim's team was lesser than Bron's. And that everything about the Spurs that season ran through Duncan.

That was just one of those seasons where Tim just said: "I got this." and he went out and got it.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron beat the best team (Thunder) so he gets the edge imo.

[Yung D-Will]

Timmy not even close. People have short term memories, take a couple months and then examine Timmy's performance, very few can compare to what he did in 03.

[Ikill]

Its extremly close in every way....
everything you say is wrong so Tim Duncan its not even close

[chazzy]

Lebron beat the best team (Thunder) so he gets the edge imo.
03 Lakers > OKC

[SilkkTheShocker]

03 Lakers > OKC


No. the 03 Lakers were easily the least talented of the Shaq Era Lakers. They went about two deep (Shaq/Kobe).

[SCdac]

Duncan dropping 37 points and grabbing 16 rebounds on Shaqs Lakers :rockon: ... ending the threepeat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_iN6qwvoS8

[CelticBaller]

Duncan didn't have an allstar on his team


LeBron had two :biggums:

[oolalaa]

Timmy was scary good that season. Few players in history could raise their teammates level of play the way Duncan did in his prime. That was a laughably mediocre team he dragged to a title. You could argue that Hakeem's '94 Houston cast was just as medioce, or even worse, but he didn't have to oust the defending champs along the way - Timmy's series against L.A was one of the underrated series in history. A 28/12/5 on 53% shooting and a 37/16/4 to close it out IN L.A?! Are you kidding? Duncan dragged 2nd year Tony Parker, rookie Ginobili, a decrepid David Robinson and a bunch of role players past the defending champs who had 2 of the top 3 players in the league :roll:

However, I'm amazed at the amount of people who can just dismiss the greatest all round talent the league has ever seen (Tied with Wilt), in the best season of his career. I mean, do you guys not realise how good Lebron is?? (Seriously :confusedshrug: ) Have you already forgotten his game 6 IN Boston? Or his game 4 IN Indiana? For a BIG chunk of the post season it was ALL HIM. It was a freaking one man team for half the Pacers series and just about ALL of the Celtics series.

Again....The most gifted all round player the league has ever seen.....In his absolute prime....In the best season of his career. However good Timmy was, I think I'm leaning towards Lebron.

[Odinn]

As for raw numbers;
Duncan; 24.7 ppg 15.4 rpg 5.3 apg 0.6 spg 3.3 bpg 3.2 tpg .529 fg .677 ft
LeBron; 30.3 ppg 9.7 rpg 5.6 apg 1.9 spg 0.7 bpg 3.5 tpg .500 fg .739 ft

As for advanced numbers;
Duncan; 34.9 eff - 28.4 per - .577 ts - ortg/drtg difference 24 (ortg/drtg difference of Spurs 6)
LeBron; 31.1 eff - 30.4 per - .576 ts - ortg/drtg difference 17 (ortg/drtg difference of Heat 8)

---

Duncan was more valuable to his team than LeBron. Without Duncan, Spurs were not close to being a playoff team in the West at all. Everyone mentions how weak 2003 Nets were. But they were an elite defensive team and had elite defensive bigs. Just think about like this; Spurs without Duncan vs. Nets & Heat without LeBron vs. Thunder. Which one is worse?..
Also what happened to the Kings is the only thing you can make a case for having a easy road. Do not give me Dirk's injury. Dirk played 3 games, and Duncan outperformed Nowitzki 3 times. 35/18/6/3 in those 3 games.

Duncan's supporting cast was worse without a doubt. Duncan's competition was a bit weaker.
If we make 2 kind of ratios;
supporting cast / competiton; Duncan has the edge.
his performance / what his team needed to win; Duncan has the edge but slightly. (LeBron came up big in game 4 of Pacers series and game 6 of Celtics series. But overall, imo, Duncan has the edge.)

45-15-5 and 40-18-9-2-2 are 2 top-level games. People have short term memories. Aside from his 32-20-6-7-3 and 21-20-10-8 games, Duncan had 2 monstrous games; 40-15-7-1 and 34-24-6-6-2. As for top-level games; I'd say it's 4 to 2.

Lastly, as for "the glory" Duncan had four consecutive playoff games of 30+ points and 15+ rebounds. He is the only one which have made it since 1980. Also he broke the record for blocks in a NBA Final series.

[RRR3]

Timmy was scary good that season. Few players in history could raise their teammates level of play the way Duncan did in his prime. That was a laughably mediocre team he dragged to a title. You could argue that Hakeem's '94 Houston cast was just as medioce, or even worse, but he didn't have to oust the defending champs along the way - Timmy's series against L.A was one of the underrated series in history. A 28/12/5 on 53% shooting and a 37/16/4 to close it out IN L.A?! Are you kidding? Duncan dragged 2nd year Tony Parker, rookie Ginobili, a decrepid David Robinson and a bunch of role players past the defending champs who had 2 of the top 3 players in the league :roll:

However, I'm amazed at the amount of people who can just dismiss the greatest all round talent the league has ever seen (Tied with Wilt), in the best season of his career. I mean, do you guys not realise how good Lebron is?? (Seriously :confusedshrug: ) Have you already forgotten his game 6 IN Boston? Or his game 4 IN Indiana? For a BIG chunk of the post season it was ALL HIM. It was a freaking one man team for half the Pacers series and just about ALL of the Celtics series.

Again....The most gifted all round player the league has ever seen.....In his absolute prime....In the best season of his career. However good Timmy was, I think I'm leaning towards Lebron.
The majority of ISH does not even come close to realizing how good LBJ is, no, sad to say.

[Zedja]

I agree with anything Pauk says.

[Freedom Kid7]

To all you that said it was close, I still disagree. But to each their own I guess.
Team wise Timmy didn't have a better team despite Pauk's stat. Bosh was injured for the most part. If Bosh wasn't injured during most of the Eastern Conference, the numbers of Lebron's supporting cast would have eclipsed Duncan's supporting cast. Lebron had 2 all-stars. Duncan didn't have an All-star (Robinson was old and done, Ginobli/Parker weren't developed at this point). Competition wise, the Spurs were able to finish the lakers pretty solidly. It was close though and the Lakers could have 4-peated had it not been for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6V1-UraQAs#t=10m10s). They also had to face a young Dallas team and a unique Suns team. Maybe the 2012 Knicks were better than the 2003 Suns, but apart from that, I think the Spurs faced overall tougher competition (The 03 Nets may have been about the same as the 2012 Thunder though. Nets had more defense, Thunder had more offense, both were solid. You could make a case for either). With a bit more competition and less help, Duncan rose to the occasion moreso than Lebron.

Obviously, I'm not knocking on LeBron. He played really damn well. He came through in clutch situations, proved all his haters wrong (myself included) and redeemed himself. I just don't think he matched Duncan's season. LeBron had less competition and more help than Duncan had at the time.

EDIT: Link was all messed up

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

03 Duncan

[TMT]

It's Duncan. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch the NBA back then.

[raprap]

Duncan was godly in his prime, I remember when I was rooting for the Lakers and Duncan continues to abuse them at the post. Those bankers were cray.

LeBron was very dominant in his run. Carrying his team when they look done. Just amazing to watch him play.

For me, its a tie.
:bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's very close. Anyone saying it's clear cut is either biased or a complete toolbag.

[raprap]

It's Duncan. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch the NBA back then.
Wow.




:coleman:

[TMT]

Wow.




:coleman:

Not saying there is a huge disparity or anything. But Duncan 03 edges out Lebron 12.

[D.J.]

Duncan easily. He was at his defensive peak.

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan handily. Lebron needed a proven champion in order to win and also an injury to Derrick Rose otherwise would have lost to the Bulls that year.

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan handily. Lebron needed a proven champion in order to win and also an injury to Derrick Rose otherwise would have lost to the Bulls that year.
Yeah, let's just gloss over the fact Dirk got injured :lol

[Odinn]

Yeah, let's just gloss over the fact Dirk got injured :lol
And also let's ignore the fact that the Spurs were leading the series by 2-1 and Duncan averaged 35/18/6/3 in those 3 games when Dirk was healthy. Idiot.

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan handily. Lebron needed a proven champion in order to win and also an injury to Derrick Rose otherwise would have lost to the Bulls that year.
:wtf:

There's no evidence in the history of either of these players that this would have happened.

[Odinn]

As for raw numbers;
Duncan; 24.7 ppg 15.4 rpg 5.3 apg 0.6 spg 3.3 bpg 3.2 tpg .529 fg .677 ft
LeBron; 30.3 ppg 9.7 rpg 5.6 apg 1.9 spg 0.7 bpg 3.5 tpg .500 fg .739 ft

As for advanced numbers;
Duncan; 34.9 eff - 28.4 per - .577 ts - ortg/drtg difference 24 (ortg/drtg difference of Spurs 6)
LeBron; 31.1 eff - 30.4 per - .576 ts - ortg/drtg difference 17 (ortg/drtg difference of Heat 8)

---

Duncan was more valuable to his team than LeBron. Without Duncan, Spurs were not close to being a playoff team in the West at all. Everyone mentions how weak 2003 Nets were. But they were an elite defensive team and had elite defensive bigs. Just think about like this; Spurs without Duncan vs. Nets & Heat without LeBron vs. Thunder. Which one is worse?..
Also what happened to the Kings is the only thing you can make a case for having a easy road. Do not give me Dirk's injury. Dirk played 3 games, and Duncan outperformed Nowitzki 3 times. 35/18/6/3 in those 3 games.

Duncan's supporting cast was worse without a doubt. Duncan's competition was a bit weaker.
If we make 2 kind of ratios;
supporting cast / competiton; Duncan has the edge.
his performance / what his team needed to win; Duncan has the edge but slightly. (LeBron came up big in game 4 of Pacers series and game 6 of Celtics series. But overall, imo, Duncan has the edge.)

45-15-5 and 40-18-9-2-2 are 2 top-level games. People have short term memories. Aside from his 32-20-6-7-3 and 21-20-10-8 games, Duncan had 2 monstrous games; 40-15-7-1 and 34-24-6-6-2. As for top-level games; I'd say it's 4 to 2.

Lastly, as for "the glory" Duncan had four consecutive playoff games of 30+ points and 15+ rebounds. He is the only one which have made it since 1980. Also he broke the record for blocks in a NBA Final series.

Tim Duncan in 2003 Playoffs after 1st round; 27/15/5/3 over 18 games
Against;
the Lakers 28.0 ppg - 11.8 rpg - 4.8 apg - 1.3 bpg - 0.3 spg on .529 fg .702 ft .575 ts / 31.8 eff - 0.792 eff/m
the Mavs 28.0 ppg - 16.7 rpg - 5.8 apg - 3.0 bpg - 0.8 spg on .569 fg .638 ft .603 ts / 39.3 eff - 0.913 eff/m
the Nets 24.2 ppg - 17.0 rpg - 5.3 apg - 5.3 bpg - 1.0 spg on .495 fg .685 ft .546 ts / 37.0 eff - 0.840 eff/m
Overall 26.7 ppg - 15.2 rpg - 5.3 apg - 3.2 bpg - 0.7 spg on .531 fg .672 fg .575 ts / 36.1 eff - 0.850 eff/m

Including some monster performances like 37/16/4/2 series clinching game against the Lakers. 40/15/7/1 - 32/15/5/3 - 34/24/6/6/2, these 3 are the first 3 games against the Mavs. 32/20/6/7/3 against the Nets in opening game of the Finals. And his famous near quadruple-double, title-winning game 21/20/10/8. Set the record for block in the Finals (after it started to get counted) with 32 blocks.

He had one of the best, if not the best, 10+ game stretches in the playoffs. From game 4 of LAL series to game 1 of NJN series, in 10 games he averaged;
30.0 ppg - 15.9 rpg - 5.5 apg - 2.8 bpg - 0.9 spg on .579 fg .678 ft .620 ts / 40.6 eff - 0.946 eff/m

His game 1 in the NBA Finals was absurd from some pov. His ortg nearly doubled his dtrg in that game with 145-79.

When Duncan was on the court; the Spurs outscored their opponents by 1554-1414. (+7.8 per game)
When Duncan was off the court; the Spurs got outscored by their opponents with 178-218. (-2.2 per game)
That is directly 10 ppg differential. (I checked ever game log, so I value this direct number over BPM.)

There are 2 significant games in this regard;
- Game 4 against the Lakers. The Spurs lost the game by 4 points despite Duncan was +15 when he was on the court.
Last 3:27 of the 2nd quarter, when Duncan got benched the Spurs were leading by 16. The gap gets cut down to 7.
Last 2:54 of the 3rd quarter, the Spurs leading by 7. Duncan gets benched and the Lakers goes on a quick 14-3 series and the Lakers is up by 4 going into the 4th.
- Game 3 against the Mavericks. Even though it was a blowout game (Duncan had +31), the Spurs actually failed to score in 7 and a half minutes when he was off the court with 0-18 scoreboard. It shows how good his rotation players were.

Also Duncan scored 481 points and assisted 215 while he was on the court. 696 of 1554 points. Which makes it 44.8% for Duncan, getting directly involved.

Duncan had four consecutive playoff games of 30+ points and 15+ rebounds. He is the only one which have made it since 1980. The only other players who did it are Wilt (multiple times surely) and Kareem (1977 playoffs). That's it. Not Moses, not Shaq, not Hakeem.

One last thing. About his defense. https://on.nba.com/2BQ2YjM This is his 'opponent shooting' percentages. According to the link, 40.2% of shots went in against Duncan in 2003 playoffs. Put it to some perspective; it was 38.5% for defense specialist Big Ben who didn't worry about carrying his team on offense, in 2004 playoffs. (43.6% against LeBron in 2012 playoffs for another comparison.)