Failed Lead Dog rings.....

[9erempiree]

I use to have a list but it's time to update this list after Miami winning a ring. Here's a list of failed lead dogs that joined other lead dogs to win a title. Those that never did it on their own:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Lebron James
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Alonzo Mourning
Clyde Drexler
Gary Payton

These guys were once lead dogs and now they are in the exclusive club of failed leaders with a ring. There aren't too many guys that failed to lead a franchise to later win a ring.

Next on the list.....

Nash? Grant Hill? TMAC?

Please don't list ring chasers. We need lead dogs.

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe Bryant, getting carried by stacked and superior front-courts by the likes of Odom, Gasol, Bynum, and Shaq.

[AMISTILLILL]

Alonzo Mourning should count on this list, as well as Drexler.

[triangleoffense]

I use to have a list but it's time to update this list after Miami winning a ring. Here's a list of failed lead dogs that joined other lead dogs to win a title. Those that never did it on their own:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Lebron James
Chris Bosh

These guys were once lead dogs and now they are in the exclusive club of failed leaders with a ring. There aren't too many guys that failed to lead a franchise to later win a ring.

Next on the list.....

Nash? Grant Hill? TMAC?

That's true, Nash, Tmac, Vince Carter should definitely be on the list as well though.

[9erempiree]

Kobe Bryant, getting carried by stacked and superior front-courts by the likes of Odom, Gasol, Bynum, and Shaq.

Kobe never failed as a leader.

He's a good leader.

[9erempiree]

Alonzo Mourning should count on this list, as well as Drexler.

True.

Will update my list.

[9erempiree]

How about Jason Kidd?

Even though I never considered him a leader of any team.

[fpliii]

:cheers:

don't forget my man Gary Payton

[NumberSix]

Who are these people who have "won on their own"?

[I<3NBA]

please for the love of god, ban posters that posts inordinately large photos such as long cats and photos like the one above. this should be an automatic bannable offense no difference from spamming.

[Tinseltime17]

This is an agenda driven thread...

[CelticBaller]

Gary Payton
Antoine Walker
Shaq

[franchise#3]

Karl Malone

[CelticBaller]

Who are these people who have "won on their own"?
Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Dirk Nowitzky

[NumberSix]

There aren't too many guys that failed to lead a franchise to later win a ring.
I'm pretty sure that at least 99% of players don't lead a franchise to a championship.

[9erempiree]

Gary Payton
Antoine Walker
Shaq

Antoine was never a lead dog.

[IGOTGAME]

Kobe Bryant, getting carried by stacked and superior front-courts by the likes of Odom, Gasol, Bynum, and Shaq.
So having gasol and odom plus no bynum in the entire playoffs besides spot minutes in one series = carried

[NumberSix]

Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Dirk Nowitzky
Playing with David Robinson, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker and countless quality role players is "winning on his own"? :confusedshrug:

[LBJDW305]

Kobe Bryant needs to be on here. Also Michael Jordan

[9erempiree]

Playing with David Robinson, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker and countless quality role players is "winning on his own"? :confusedshrug:

Duncan is clearly a lead dog.

[NumberSix]

Duncan is clearly a lead dog.
So?

[CelticBaller]

Antoine was never a lead dog.
He was the captain of the team and the leader in the locker room

[9erempiree]

He was the captain of the team and the leader in the locker room

sorry.

:facepalm

[9erempiree]

Kobe Bryant needs to be on here. Also Michael Jordan

disagree.

MJ and Kobe never failed their franchise.

As a matter of fact, they won multiple titles for one freaking franchise like Duncan, Magic, Hakeem and Bird.

[NumberSix]

Why is LeBron James on this list?

Regular season MVP + finals MVP. How much more "lead dog" can you be?

[StateOfMind12]

So having gasol and odom plus no bynum in the entire playoffs besides spot minutes in one series = carried
If you are referring to 2009, Bynum played the whole playoffs.

It's also getting carried in the same sense a banged up and/or declining Wade with Bosh out for half of the playoffs was carrying LeBron in the 2012 title.

[CelticBaller]

Playing with David Robinson, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker and countless quality role players is "winning on his own"? :confusedshrug:In 2003
Rookie manu
Past prime david robinson
"quality role player" = the Cavaliers roster

[NumberSix]

Chris Paul?

[Meticode]

Why is LeBron James on this list?

Regular season MVP + finals MVP. How much more "lead dog" can you be?
You don't get it.

[CelticBaller]

sorry.

:facepalm
As Pathetic as it sounds he was, Pierce might have been the scoring leader but Antoine was the leader of that team and the heart of that team, he fueled our 02 run :lol

[Heavincent]

Kobe Bryant, getting carried by stacked and superior front-courts by the likes of Odom, Gasol, Bynum, and Shaq.

Your trolling is absolutely atrocious.

[pauk]

Oscar Robertson
Moses Malone
Shaquille Oneal


Whats the point of this thread anyways? Any "lead dog" that ever got a championship either didnt have to leave because he got everything handed to him on a silverplate or had to leave because he got nothing handed to him after 1000 years..

[NumberSix]

Melo

[NumberSix]

Oscar Robertson
Moses Malone
Shaquille Oneal
Regular season MVP + 3 FMVPs. How is that not "lead dog"

[9erempiree]

As Pathetic as it sounds he was, Pierce might have been the scoring leader but Antoine was the leader of that team and the heart of that team, he fueled our 02 run :lol

I guess so but I still hold Pierce above Antoine back then.

[brandonislegend]

Kobe Bryant, getting carried by stacked and superior front-courts by the likes of Odom, Gasol, Bynum, and Shaq.

You know how stupid you look right?

[9erempiree]

Why is LeBron James on this list?

Regular season MVP + finals MVP. How much more "lead dog" can you be?

He played with other lead dogs.

He still on the list because Bosh and Wade on any team are lead dogs.

[NumberSix]

He played with other lead dogs.

He still on the list because Bosh and Wade on any team are lead dogs.
Wasn't Scottie Pippen a "lead dog" on the '94 Bulls and the Blazers?

Wasn't Jason Kidd a "lead dog"? Add Dirk.

[swi7ch]

Lesson: it's so much difficult to win anything by yourself.

Just ask Kobe.

[NumberSix]

So, you gonna add David Robinson?

[9erempiree]

Wasn't Scottie Pippen a "lead dog" on the '94 Bulls and the Blazers?

Wasn't Jason Kidd a "lead dog"? Add Dirk.

Pippen...no.

Kidd...possibly...but he never really carried a franchise. As a matter of fact, he's a career journeyman. He bounces around from team to team quite often.

[AlonzoGOAT]

Horrible thread like if you win championships by yourself

[NumberSix]

Pippen...no.

Kidd...possibly...but he never really carried a franchise. As a matter of fact, he's a career journeyman. He bounces around from team to team quite often.
You need more clearly defined criteria.

If Pau is on the list for joining up with Kobe, wouldn't Kobe by default, be on it too for joining up with Pau?

[Umad101]

Add 2012 wade in there. He tried to be The man this year but he wasn't good enough so he took a back seat to lebron this year.

[LBJDW305]

Kobe played with Bynum gasol odom

Jordan had PIPPEN and best supporting cast ever

Duncan had Manu and Parker

WTF is the point of this thread? NO SUPERSTAR HAS WON BY THEMSELVES SO JUST NAME EVERY PLAYER TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP

[Umad101]

You need more clearly defined criteria.

If Pau is on the list for joining up with Kobe, wouldn't Kobe by default, be on it too for joining up with Pau?
How can one join if one never left anywhere, pau joined Kobe

[9erempiree]

You need more clearly defined criteria.

If Pau is on the list for joining up with Kobe, wouldn't Kobe by default, be on it too for joining up with Pau?

Kobe never failed with the Lakers.

Pau has failed with Memphis.

[LamarOdom]

If you are referring to 2009, Bynum played the whole playoffs.

It's also getting carried in the same sense a banged up and/or declining Wade with Bosh out for half of the playoffs was carrying LeBron in the 2012 title.

Yep averaging 6/4 in 17 mpg where should we put him on that MDE list?

[RRR3]

Kobe never failed with the Lakers.

Pau has failed with Memphis.
2008 NBA finals

[NumberSix]

Kobe never failed with the Lakers.

Pau has failed with Memphis.
How does that make any difference?

[LBJDW305]

Why not just name thread Kobe is the goat and you wanna suck him up?

[Vienceslav]

Well it depends on what franchise drafts the player or how is the franchise able to get complementary pieces.
For example MJ made the Bulls relevant ,but he needed Pippen to win the rings.
If Pippen wasn

[9erempiree]

Why not just name thread Kobe is the goat and you wanna suck him up?

There are many GOAT's.

Magic, Bird, Kobe, MJ, Wilt and Kareem....put their names in a hat and just pick one.

Which ever name is picked....he's GOAT.

Just pick one.

[NumberSix]

There are many GOAT's.

Magic, Bird, Kobe, MJ, Wilt and Kareem....put their names in a hat and just pick one.

Which ever name is picked....he's GOAT.

Just pick one.
So, is this the "wasn't the lead dog" thread, or the "had to switch teams" thread? The goalposts seem to be moving.

[keepinitreal]

I use to have a list but it's time to update this list after Miami winning a ring. Here's a list of failed lead dogs that joined other lead dogs to win a title. Those that never did it on their own:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Lebron James
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Alonzo Mourning
Clyde Drexler
Gary Payton

These guys were once lead dogs and now they are in the exclusive club of failed leaders with a ring. There aren't too many guys that failed to lead a franchise to later win a ring.

Next on the list.....

Nash? Grant Hill? TMAC?

Please don't list ring chasers. We need lead dogs.

lolwut.

paul pierce?

criteria is baddddddd

[Jax]

Where's Shaq though? I smell a STAN....

[Cali Syndicate]

Kobe never failed as a leader.

He's a good leader.

Since '09 maybe.

[CelticBaller]

Kobe played with Bynum gasol odom

Jordan had PIPPEN and best supporting cast ever

Duncan had Manu and Parker

WTF is the point of this thread? NO SUPERSTAR HAS WON BY THEMSELVES SO JUST NAME EVERY PLAYER TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP
Who Duncan had in 2003?


Who Hakeem had in the 1994 Rockets? :biggums:

[Cali Syndicate]

Where's Shaq though? I smell a STAN....

What lead dog did Shaq team up with?

[AngelEyes]

Kobe played with Bynum gasol odom

Jordan had PIPPEN and best supporting cast ever

Duncan had Manu and Parker

WTF is the point of this thread? NO SUPERSTAR HAS WON BY THEMSELVES SO JUST NAME EVERY PLAYER TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP

You must have forgotten the 80's. Those Laker, Celtics rosters easily outclass the Bulls.

[keepinitreal]

Regular season MVP + 3 FMVPs. How is that not "lead dog"

it is considered "failed lead dog" according to the op's criteria.

the criteria is dumb, though

and you can change the term "failed lead dog" to something like failed supporting cast/owner/franchise/etc

[ThaRegul8r]

This is an agenda driven thread...

Everything's agenda driven. This has been the case for some time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe begged out of LA and was awarded with Pau Gasol. Using your criteria, he belongs on that list.

[Ne 1]

Kobe begged out of LA and was awarded with Pau Gasol. Using your criteria, he belongs on that list.

Kobe was never going to leave the Lakers. He was just pressuring them to surround him with talent. He did what he did and got Gasol and company.

Dude's "temper tantrum" turned the organization around in a matter of months. Perhaps if guys would quit sitting on their hands wanting the public and the media to like them they'd get shit done.

[NumberSix]

Kobe was never going to leave the Lakers. He was just pressuring them to surround him with talent. He did what he did and got Gasol and company.

Dude's "temper tantrum" turned the organization around in a matter of months. Perhaps if guys would quit sitting on their hands wanting the public and the media to like them they'd get shit done.
Didn't he basically do what Dwight Howard did last season?

[lilgodfather1]

How is LeBron a failed lead dog when he won the finals MVP? Shouldn't Kobe also be a failed lead dog then as well. Oh you were the best player on a championship team? Doesn't count you had another all star.

[Vertical-24]

You don't get it.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4209/23122675.jpg

[jl1718]

Dominique Wilkins

[Owl]

Didn't he basically do what Dwight Howard did last season?
I don't recall Dwight requesting the Magic trade their best young young player for an aging point guard.:D

[Halcon]

Lol @ alot of people on here not getting how this works.

Basically its a list of "superstars" that had to join another team with a "superstar" to win a championship.

Like lets say Gary Payton and Karl Malone would have won in LA with Kobe and Shaq after not being able to win a championship with their respective teams they became superstars on.

Lebron James is on the list because while he's arguably the best player in the league and can be called the 'lead dog' in Miami, he didnt win shit while he was the lead dog all by himself in Cleveland and joined a team that already had a lead dog (Wade)

and

Players like Duncan and Jordan arent on this list because while they won with great players around them, they didnt leave a team and join a team with already established great players capable of winning on their own.

Geez.

[CelticBaller]

Lol @ alot of people on here not getting how this works.

Basically its a list of "superstars" that had to join another team with a "superstar" to win a championship.

Like lets say Gary Payton and Karl Malone would have won in LA with Kobe and Shaq after not being able to win a championship with their respective teams they became superstars on.

Lebron James is on the list because while he's arguably the best player in the league and can be called the 'lead dog' in Miami, he didnt win shit while he was the lead dog all by himself in Cleveland and joined a team that already had a lead dog (Wade)

and

Players like Duncan and Jordan arent on this list because while they won with great players around them, they didnt leave a team and join a team with already established great players capable of winning on their own.

Geez.
Then what is pierce doing there?

[IGOTGAME]

If you are referring to 2009, Bynum played the whole playoffs.


forgot...he did make it back from the injury right before playoffs. where he played very hurt. that is why he only averaged 17 minutes a game and scored 6 points and 4 rebounds a game on 45% shooting. Guess that is what you meant by "carrying."

[Halcon]

Then what is pierce doing there?
I wouild assume it's because he wasnt able to win on his own, and had to wait til another superstar joined his team.

But I'd only call Garnett the "failed lead dog" in their case.

Im not really defending the list, just explaining it.

[joeyjoejoe]

Was gonna say barkley forget but forgot rockets didnt win with him, my feeling is this thread may stem from an insecure kobe fan clutching at straws to devalue lebrons ring when he was clearly the best player on the team

[kennethgriffin]

Some real bum hurt boobies on her angry that kobe has 2 finals mvps...

They say "boo hoo kobe averaging 30/6/5 was carried by gasol averaging 18/10/3 and bymun averaging 6/7/1"

Then they turn around and say "shaq averaging 28/12/3 carried kobe averaging 27/6/5"

Lollycakes

[RRR3]

:mad:
mad

[kennethgriffin]

mad
Lol

Kobes played every game with one team and even magic johnson asked for a trade once. Kobe shouldnt be punished because the lakers refused to honor his wishes and instead tried to build a better team. Kobe never said "swing a gasol deal" he said "trade me to bummy chicago to play with ben gordon"

Yall just mad kobe had people coming to him instead of him jumping on another legend that already had a ring ala clyde n lebron

[RRR3]

Lol

Kobes played every game with one team and even magic johnson asked for a trade once. Kobe shouldnt be punished because the lakers refused to honor his wishes and instead tried to build a better team. Kobe never said "swing a gasol deal" he said "trade me to bummy chicago to play with ben gordon"

Yall just mad kobe had people coming to him instead of him jumping on another legend that already had a ring ala clyde n lebron
LeBron is better than Kobe, so he can do what ever he feels like:confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron is better than Kobe, so he can do what ever he feels like:confusedshrug:

I can live with prime 9th year lebron being mvp of the league if 16th year kobe is 1st team all nba

[Doctor Rivers]

I can live with prime 9th year lebron being mvp of the league if 16th year kobe is 1st team all nba

haha

[RRR3]

haha
hee hee

[Nash]

Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem should be there.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Criteria is a little misleading.....

By your lead dog standards, do you mean winning a title as the best player/leader of the team?

Or winning a title on the team you were originally on without leaving to win a title?

The former makes more sense for alpha dogs.

I can't believe there are people who put Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe in this thread. They all won titles as the best player on the team at least once.

Don't see why LeBron is on the list. Technically Lebron did win a title this year as the Heat's best player, it's not like he failed his entire career and finally crawled up to Wade in his twiilight years to chase a ring.

In other words, LeBron was an alpha dog this year

I think someone like Jason Kidd, or Steve Nash(if he wins a title in LA) would be classified as failed lead dog.....

[Freedom Kid7]

Jason Kidd comes to mind. Bob McAdoo to an extent as well.