Where does Kobe Bryant currently rank on your all-time list?

[StateOfMind12]

I'm curious because the debate of where Kobe ranks on the all-time/historic list has been talked about a lot in threads recently so I'm curious to know what most ISHers think where Kobe ranks.

To me, Kobe is either ranked 9th or 10th in my all-time list. He is 9th or 10th and interchangeable with Duncan to me but I usually go with Duncan and side with him but occasionally I go with Kobe.

This is my top 10...

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Duncan/Kobe
10. Kobe/Duncan

[lilgodfather1]

9th.

MJ
Magic
KAJ
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Bill
Duncan
Kobe
Dream

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Anywhere from 7-10.

[DTreats]

Top 10.

[Beatlezz]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem

[JM720]

8-9 Both Duncan & Kobe ahead of Hakeem.

[Freedom Kid7]

Right around #10. Duncan and Shaq are still ahead of him and always will be.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'll admit I am no Kobe fan, but I do recognize his talent, work ethic, skill and determination. All are to be admired. He's got an argument for top 10 all time (I have him at #10), that's about it. He plays poorly in the finals and in game 7s - and his statistical contributions are top 15-20 all time.

I know these conversations can quickly degrade, but Kobe was VERY fortunate to be on GREAT teams. I will leave it at that.

[YAWN]

6-9. But with continued elite level longevity he'll prob end up at 6. With another title run who knows.. maybe 4/5.

Jordan, Kareem, & Russell are the only ones I think are 100% out of reach at this point though. Maybe he can argue for the 3 slot with with another 2 elite seasons, 2 rings, and 2 more finals mvps..

Magic & Wilt are the ones he could be argued with if he wins one more ring as an elite player.

Bird, Duncan, Shaq are all in the mix with him now. Depends on how much you value an extremely long level of elite play.

And Ive got Hakeem rounding out my top 10..

[raprap]

Just below Duncan.

[EnoughSaid]

Interchangable between 8-10.

[G-Funk]

7-10 If he wins 1 more i see him surpassing Duncan Shaq Bird Hakeem. It will be enough to kill those debates.

Then he will enter debates with Magic, Russell and Wilt. But wont be close to Kareem much less Jordan.

If he wins 2 more, he enters top 3 and is up for debate as who is number 2, Kareem or Kobe. But he will not surpass MJ.

[d.bball.guy]

Interchangable between 8-10.
This.

[lilgodfather1]

7-10 If he wins 1 more i see him surpassing Duncan Shaq Bird Hakeem. It will be enough to kill those debates.

Then he will enter debates with Magic, Russell and Wilt. But wont be close to Kareem much less Jordan.

If he wins 2 more, he enters top 3 and is up for debate as who is number 2, Kareem or Kobe. But he will not surpass MJ.
If he wins one more then I would easily put him over Duncan, Russell, and most likely Shaq. Two and I give him #3 of all time. The only two that are out of reach are Jordan and Magic imo.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

seeing people post that kobe is better than the likes of hakeem.......i've lost all faith in humanity....

[I LUV KOBE]

5 atm will retire 2nd behind the goat..

[G-Funk]

If he wins one more then I would easily put him over Duncan, Russell, and most likely Shaq. Two and I give him #3 of all time. The only two that are out of reach are Jordan and Magic imo.

its gonna be hard to argue against 7 championships 4 Finals MVP's

Magic has 5 championships 3 Finals MVP's

Kareem has 5 championships 2 Finals MVP's

Jordan Has 6 championships 6 Finals MVP's

[Heavincent]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Kobe
8. Bird
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem

Something like that.

[magnax1]

I'll admit I am no Kobe fan, but I do recognize his talent, work ethic, skill and determination. All are to be admired. He's got an argument for top 10 all time (I have him at #10), that's about it. He plays poorly in the finals and in game 7s - and his statistical contributions are top 15-20 all time.

I know these conversations can quickly degrade, but Kobe was VERY fortunate to be on GREAT teams. I will leave it at that.
While I don't actually have him as high as you do, I have to say that what you said is quite unfair.
First off, I don't agree about him being VERY fortunate, at least if we're comparing him to the players he's often ranked somewhat around. Of course, being drafted onto a team that just signed a top 5 player in the league is lucky, but how many times did he clearly have the most talented team in the league while he was in his prime (or at least somewhat close to it?)
01-okay, he probably did this year, but they were the most talented basically because he and Shaq were clearly top championship caliber players.
02-Probably not. I'd say the Kings were clearly more talented top to bottom. The 02 team is similar to 01, but Shaq was worse, and the Lakers already pretty awful depth was worse then it was in 01. However, I have to say that they probably wouldn't have beaten Sacramento in the first place if not for some poor officiating.
03-Basically the same problems as 02 and 01 but worse. Shaq and Kobe were great, Fisher was alright, but the rest of the team was quite awful, and they came close to not making it out of the first round against a very very weak Timberwolves team that was carried by KG in every sense of the word.
04-I think when the team was 100% they were clearly the most talented and best team in the league, but they were healthy for something like 40 games (if that?) and did not look the same in the playoffs at all.
05-Not a very good team, and not Kobe's best year. They were still on their way to the playoffs when Odom and Kobe were healthy IIRC
06&07-Clearly a crap team that Kobe carried as clearly the best player in the league
08-A very good team (after the Pau trade) that was clearly not as talented Boston, and dealt with quite a few injuries during the regular seaosn.
09-Probably the most talented in the league, though the Magic were probably similar if you trade Dwight out for Kobe.
10-Same as 09, but more clearly to me. Added Artest, and had a sort of healthy Bynum in the playoffs.
So, he had the most talented team for maybe 3-4 years of his prime, where Magic went basically his whole career having the 1st or at worst 2nd most talented team in the league, and Bill Russell was similar. I don't think you can say Kobe was that lucky. In 02 and 09 I'd call him lucky in that, I don't think they should have beaten the Kings, or would have had a chance against Boston if they were healthy, but in terms of talent, I don't think he sticks out from half the guys who most people have top 15.


and his statistical contributions are top 15-20 all time.
Why is that? I mean, his 06 season puts him in a tier of scoring that probably only 3 guys have ever reached. I don't know who you put in you 15-20, but I kind of doubt they had much better statistical primes as the 30-6-5 on 57 TS% that Kobe put up from 06-10.

[tpols]

Why is that? .
Dont you know? The almighty PER:bowdown: :bowdown:

[lilgodfather1]

its gonna be hard to argue against 7 championships 4 Finals MVP's

Magic has 5 championships 3 Finals MVP's

Kareem has 5 championships 2 Finals MVP's

Jordan Has 6 championships 6 Finals MVP's
It wouldn't be hard to argue against at all for MJ and Magic imo. Both were just too good, but KAJ is going bye bye if Kobe has those totals along with his 35k points (likely landing spot imo).

[SuperPippen]

10.

[lilgodfather1]

While I don't actually have him as high as you do, I have to say that what you said is quite unfair.
First off, I don't agree about him being VERY fortunate, at least if we're comparing him to the players he's often ranked somewhat around. Of course, being drafted onto a team that just signed a top 5 player in the league is lucky, but how many times did he clearly have the most talented team in the league while he was in his prime (or at least somewhat close to it?)
01-okay, he probably did this year, but they were the most talented basically because he and Shaq were clearly top championship caliber players.
02-Probably not. I'd say the Kings were clearly more talented top to bottom. The 02 team is similar to 01, but Shaq was worse, and the Lakers already pretty awful depth was worse then it was in 01. However, I have to say that they probably wouldn't have beaten Sacramento in the first place if not for some poor officiating.
03-Basically the same problems as 02 and 01 but worse. Shaq and Kobe were great, Fisher was alright, but the rest of the team was quite awful, and they came close to not making it out of the first round against a very very weak Timberwolves team that was carried by KG in every sense of the word.
04-I think when the team was 100% they were clearly the most talented and best team in the league, but they were healthy for something like 40 games (if that?) and did not look the same in the playoffs at all.
05-Not a very good team, and not Kobe's best year. They were still on their way to the playoffs when Odom and Kobe were healthy IIRC
06&07-Clearly a crap team that Kobe carried as clearly the best player in the league
08-A very good team (after the Pau trade) that was clearly not as talented Boston, and dealt with quite a few injuries during the regular seaosn.
09-Probably the most talented in the league, though the Magic were probably similar if you trade Dwight out for Kobe.
10-Same as 09, but more clearly to me. Added Artest, and had a sort of healthy Bynum in the playoffs.
So, he had the most talented team for maybe 3-4 years of his prime, where Magic went basically his whole career having the 1st or at worst 2nd most talented team in the league, and Bill Russell was similar. I don't think you can say Kobe was that lucky. In 02 and 09 I'd call him lucky in that, I don't think they should have beaten the Kings, or would have had a chance against Boston if they were healthy, but in terms of talent, I don't think he sticks out from half the guys who most people have top 15.


Why is that? I mean, his 06 season puts him in a tier of scoring that probably only 3 guys have ever reached. I don't know who you put in you 15-20, but I kind of doubt they had much better statistical primes as the 30-6-5 on 57 TS% that Kobe put up from 06-10.

Just on your last paragraph I can think of a handful of players who scored 35ppg. MJ, Wilt, Baylor, Barry, KAJ (34.8), Macadoo (34.5). Not saying it isn't an elite level, but it's not that elite.

MJ had 5 seasons of at least 30-6-5, Big O had 6 such seasons, LeBron has two such seasons. Thats 13 seasons off the top of my head. Kobe's had 1... That is a much more exclusive list than the 35ppg one though.

[DatAsh]

1. Russell
2. Jordan
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Kareem
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Kobe

[1987_Lakers]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Chamberlain
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

[D.J.]

Borderline top 10:


1)MJ
2)Wilt
3)Kareem
4)Bird
5)Magic
6)Russell
7)Hakeem
8)Shaq
9)Duncan
10)Kobe/Jerry West

[magnax1]

Just on your last paragraph I can think of a handful of players who scored 35ppg. MJ, Wilt, Baylor, Barry, KAJ (34.8), Macadoo (34.5). Not saying it isn't an elite level, but it's not that elite.
Well Wilt Baylor, Barry and to a much lesser extent Kareem and McAdoo's high statistical output were due to the pace. That's why I said he was among the 3 best scorers ever (Wilt, Jordan, and now that I think about it I'd probably put Kareem in there too) and not had one of the 3 highest scoring seasons ever. If you adjust for pace, Kobe is probably up there with Wilt and Jordan as the three best ever peak vs peak statistically.


MJ had 5 seasons of at least 30-6-5,
I'm not going to argue that Jordan didn't have a far better prime, statistical or otherwise then Kobe.


Big O had 6 such seasons,
Once again, that's a product of the pace.


LeBron has two such seasons.
Well Lebron averaged 28-7-7 in his prime from 09-12, and I definitely the think the two players have been comparable in their primes.


Thats 13 seasons off the top of my head. Kobe's had 1..
Kobe averaged that over his prime from 06-10. Of course, there were some years he averaged more or less in some categories, but that's not the point.

[talkingconch]

Borderline top 10:


1)MJ
2)Wilt
3)Kareem
4)Bird
5)Magic
6)Russell
7)Hakeem
8)Shaq
9)Duncan
10)Kobe/Jerry West

http://www.vaq34.com/junk/wtf.gif

[Umad101]

Only players that should be ranked above Kobe when u take dominance and skill set into consideration is Jordan,Kareem,shaq,Hakeem and maybe bird

[Kurosawa0]

I wanna do a top 25 just for fun.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem Olujawon
11. Moses Malone
12. LeBron James
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone
21. Isiah Thomas
22. John Havlicek
23. Bob Cousy
24. Scottie Pippen
25. Dwyane Wade

[BallsOut]

I wanna do a top 25 just for fun.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem Olujawon
11. Moses Malone
12. LeBron James
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone
21. Isiah Thomas
22. John Havlicek
23. Bob Cousy
24. Scottie Pippen
25. Dwyane Wade

What a flip flopper. Last year you had Kobe at 7 before Duncan. Now he's at 8. How did he drop a spot when he's clearly been more productive and a better player than Duncan was last season? :biggums:

[D.J.]

Only players that should be ranked above Kobe when u take dominance and skill set into consideration is Jordan,Kareem,shaq,Hakeem and maybe bird


Russell? Magic??

[swi7ch]

Behind LBJ and my reason is only this:

When both players were with useless teams, Kobe lost in the first round, missed the playoffs, then lost again in the first round. Meanwhile, LBJ routinely took his useless Cavs team deep in the playoffs and even managed to get them into the Finals. Yes, they got swept and it was embarrassing but at least he got out of the first round unlike Kobe (who needs prime Shaq or prime Pau wiht the GOAT coach in order to do something meaningful in the playoffs).

[ripthekik]

Behind LBJ and my reason is only this:

When both players were with useless teams, Kobe lost in the first round, missed the playoffs, then lost again in the first round. Meanwhile, LBJ routinely took his useless Cavs team deep in the playoffs and even managed to get them into the Finals. Yes, they got swept and it was embarrassing but at least he got out of the first round unlike Kobe (who needs prime Shaq or prime Pau wiht the GOAT coach in order to do something meaningful in the playoffs).
:roll: :roll: :roll:
trollllling like a baus

[Umad101]

Russell? Magic??
Russell Plz that dude shot 44% as center in an era that was garbage for basketball in general. Magic was a good player but dude played on arguably the best teams ever. Put Kobe on that team and where talking 6 or 7 rings here

[D.J.]

Russell Plz that dude shot 44% as center in an era that was garbage for basketball in general.


Shooting 44% when the league average was less than 40%.



Magic was a good player but dude played on arguably the best teams ever. Put Kobe on that team and where talking 6 or 7 rings here



Kobe is not running an offense and helping the Lakers shoot 55% from the field as a team.

[swag2011]

For me, anywhere between 7-9. My mind changes everyday tbh.

Let's say he wins another ring and FMVP. He would then tie Shaq, Duncan, Magic, and Bird for 3FMVPS, and he would clearly have more rings than all 3. I would probably place him at 5 or 6 firmly. That's why i hope he gets it.

When alot of people do rankings, they only do PEAK. Me, i rank by career, longevity, accomplishments, stats, all that shit.

[Deuce Bigalow]

For me, anywhere between 7-9. My mind changes everyday tbh.

Let's say he wins another ring and FMVP. He would then tie Shaq, Duncan, Magic, and Bird for 3FMVPS, and he would clearly have more rings than all 3. I would probably place him at 5 or 6 firmly. That's why i hope he gets it.

When alot of people do rankings, they only do PEAK. Me, i rank by career, longevity, accomplishments, stats, all that shit.
Bird has 2 FMVPs

[Deuce Bigalow]

Behind LBJ and my reason is only this:

When both players were with useless teams, Kobe lost in the first round, missed the playoffs, then lost again in the first round. Meanwhile, LBJ routinely took his useless Cavs team deep in the playoffs and even managed to get them into the Finals. Yes, they got swept and it was embarrassing but at least he got out of the first round unlike Kobe (who needs prime Shaq or prime Pau wiht the GOAT coach in order to do something meaningful in the playoffs).
Kareem missed the Playoffs twice in his prime

Lebron > Kareem too right?

:facepalm

[plUto or bUst]

First Tier: Jordan, Russell, Wilt
Second Tier: Kareem, Magic, Shaq
Third Tier: Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Oscar

I have Kobe in the third tier GOAT list.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

never in the top 10

i rank players by on court impact

[RazorBaLade]

First Tier: Jordan, Russell, Wilt
Second Tier: Kareem, Magic, Shaq
Third Tier: Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Oscar

I have Kobe in the third tier GOAT list.

the best kind of list.

Kobes a third tier player with a fighters chance of getting into the second tier by the end of his career

[tpols]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. KAJ
4. Bill Russel
5. Magic johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Shaquille Oneal
10. Hakeem Olajuwan

[code green]

Honestly? In the 25-30 range. :confusedshrug:


lol wait for it...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Have him #10

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. KAJ
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Timmy D
10. Kobe
11. Moses Malone
12. Lebron James

[tpols]

Ill never understand why Shaq is so high on a lot of people's lists.. he dominated after Ewing-Drob-Hakeem all had fallen off in a very weak era for centers, had a shit attitude when it came to competitiveness and love for the game, and he didnt control the defensive end as well as ANY of the GOAT centers that came before him~Wilt, Russel, Hakeem and KAJ.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I wanna do a top 25 just for fun.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem Olujawon
11. Moses Malone
12. LeBron James
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Charles Barkley
20. Karl Malone
21. Isiah Thomas
22. John Havlicek
23. Bob Cousy
24. Scottie Pippen
25. Dwyane Wade

No David Robinson?

[Shepseskaf]

Not in the top 10, but just below it -- 11-13. Another great year, championship, and FMVP would definitely move him up, though.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. KAJ
4. Bill Russel
5. Magic johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Shaquille Oneal
10. Hakeem Olajuwan


no way kobe is a better player than Hakeem

more efficient offense and the defensive impact between the two isn't even close

these silly basketball GOAT rankings which have become so accepted make me nauseous :facepalm

[no pun intended]

1. Jordan
2. Chamberlain
3. Johnson
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Russell
6. Bird
7. O'Neal
8. Duncan
9. Bryant
10. Olajuwon

[swag2011]

no way kobe is a better player than Hakeem

more efficient offense and the defensive impact between the two isn't even close

these silly basketball GOAT rankings which have become so accepted make me nauseous :facepalm

How the hell can you compare the defensive impact of a center to a guard? :biggums:

[tpols]

no way kobe is a better player than Hakeem

more efficient offense and the defensive impact between the two isn't even close

these silly basketball GOAT rankings which have become so accepted make me nauseous :facepalm
You can say the exact same thing about Hakeem and Bird/Magic. Slightly less offensive impact with 10x the D. Main point though is that Kobe, and Magic and Bird dominated their eras in a more convincing fashion.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

How the hell can you compare the defensive impact of a center to a guard? :biggums:

you're starting the "it's not fair" argument aren't you....who cares

comparing hakeem's and kobe's defensive impact is like comparing nukes and grenades

it ain't fair but who gives a shit if you get the nuke

[DaHeezy]

I'll be comfortable with 8-10 range

1- Magic
2- Wilt
3- Jordan
4- KAJ
5- Russell
6- Bird
7- Shaq
8- Kobe
9- Duncan
10- Hakeem

[DatAsh]

I'll be comfortable with 8-10 range

1- Magic
2- Wilt
3- Jordan
4- KAJ
5- Russell
6- Bird
7- Shaq
8- Kobe
9- Duncan
10- Hakeem
:roll: :roll: :roll: at not having Jordan at #1

[OmniStrife]

Anywhere from 7-10.
+1

[swag2011]

you're starting the "it's not fair" argument aren't you....who cares

comparing hakeem's and kobe's defensive impact is like comparing nukes and grenades

it ain't fair but who gives a shit if you get the nuke

obvious agenda is obvious lol.

:lol your just being petty. What guard has a bigger impact on defense than a center? I'm just saying it's stupid to say Hakeem's had more impact on defense because he should, he's a fxcking center, one of the GOATS. If he didn't have more of an impact on defense than Kobe, well that would be just embarassing.

So like i said, how can you hold it against a guard for not having a bigger impact on defense than a center?

[YAWN]

Ill never understand why Shaq is so high on a lot of people's lists.. he dominated after Ewing-Drob-Hakeem all had fallen off in a very weak era for centers, had a shit attitude when it came to competitiveness and love for the game, and he didnt control the defensive end as well as ANY of the GOAT centers that came before him~Wilt, Russel, Hakeem and KAJ.

Even with his poor work ethic and attitude, he still had like 12 elite seasons including some of the most dominant playoff series in the history of the game. He's 5-9 on most competent lists, when he could of easily been 1-3 if he put in the same work and effort of some of the other top 10ers.

[LakersReign]

Ill never understand why Shaq is so high on a lot of people's lists.. he dominated after Ewing-Drob-Hakeem all had fallen off in a very weak era for centers, had a shit attitude when it came to competitiveness and love for the game, and he didnt control the defensive end as well as ANY of the GOAT centers that came before him~Wilt, Russel, Hakeem and KAJ.

A lot of haters try to overrrate Shaq so they can underrate Kobe and his accomplishments. Just that simple.

[Linspired]

THE GOAT
Michael Jordan
- This probably will not change in my life time. If it does, i'll be pleasantly surprised.

Untouchables
Wilt, Magic, Kareem, Russell
- It would take more than bunch of rings and mvps to get here. These guys rewrote the history. They ALL were considered the GOAT at one point.

Best of the rest
Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kobe
- These guys were considered the best in their era. They were dominant. they put up sick numbers. they won mvps. they won multiple championships. They are historically significant. Bron can get here if he keeps it up. Charles, Malone and etc could've been here if they've won multiple championships.

[Linspired]

Ill never understand why Shaq is so high on a lot of people's lists.. he dominated after Ewing-Drob-Hakeem all had fallen off in a very weak era for centers, had a shit attitude when it came to competitiveness and love for the game, and he didnt control the defensive end as well as ANY of the GOAT centers that came before him~Wilt, Russel, Hakeem and KAJ.

:roll: :roll:

Young Shaq put up these numbers.

rookie year 1992-1993
23.4/13.9

2nd year 1993-1994
29.3/13.2

3rd year 1994-1995
29.3/11.4


Shaq was a beast from the start. and no, ewing, drob, and hakeem did not fall off yet. against the great prime Hakeem, he put up 28/12.5 not bad for a 3rd year player.

and like all the great players from the past, Shaq needed a better coaching and a better team around him. Shaq's peak is probably as high as anybody except Jordan. he was that great. drob or ewing would be demolished if they ever faced peak Shaq.

[Cali Syndicate]

A few spots off the elite eight.

[tomtucker]

2nd.......only behind Jordan

[RIP CITY]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

[Kews1]

lower than Kevin Garnett.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list by SLAM (http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/)

Right now I have #7 All-Time.

[Legends66NBA7]

Anywhere from Top 10-15 seems right (majority have him in the Top 10 or borderline outside the Top 10).

Though, I'm more curious of another question:

Is it possible for both Kobe Bryant and LeBron James to both be in the consensus Top 10 when their careers are over? :confusedshrug:

[Vertical-24]

All-time list? Easily #7 for me at the moment and I think it is possible for him to crack the top 5 if he wins another Championship. Kobe is an amazing talent, sad a lot of the hate he gets. Also sad the amount of ridiculous stannery that surrounds him...the man is an amazing player, lets just leave it at that. People get way too extreme on both ends when it comes down to Kobe.

01. Michael Jordan
02. Magic Johnson
03. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
04. Bill Russell
05. Wilt Chamberlain
06. Larry Bird
07. Kobe Bryant
08. Shaq Diesel
09. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon

[YAWN]

Anywhere from Top 10-15 seems right (majority have him in the Top 10 or borderline outside the Top 10).

Though, I'm more curious of another question:

Is it possible for both Kobe Bryant and LeBron James to both be in the consensus Top 10 when their careers are over? :confusedshrug:

yes..

but id like to see who the 5 players between 10-15 that you ranked on the same level as this:
5 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 14x all star, 14x all nba, 12x all defense, 2x scoring champ

this is who i currently have at #10....
2 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 12x all star, 12x all nba, 9x all defense, 2x DPOY

[tomtucker]

All-time list? Easily #7 for me at the moment and I think it is possible for him to crack the top 5 if he wins another Championship. Kobe is an amazing talent, sad a lot of the hate he gets. Also sad the amount of ridiculous stannery that surrounds him...the man is an amazing player, lets just leave it at that. People get way too extreme on both ends when it comes down to Kobe.

01. Michael Jordan
02. Magic Johnson03. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar04. Bill Russell
05. Wilt Chamberlain06. Larry Bird07. Kobe Bryant
08. Shaq Diesel
09. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon

but these old timers would get embarrassed in todays NBA....they are from a different era.........how can they be higher then stars of today ?

[StateOfMind12]

I'm curious to the people who have Kobe above Shaq. Why is Kobe ahead of Shaq to you guys?


:roll: :roll: :roll: at not having Jordan at #1

1. Russell
2. Jordan
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Kareem
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Kobe

:confusedshrug:

[Timmy D for MVP]

10th.

3rd of this generation of players.

2nd SG of all time.

3rd greatest Laker. (Shaq's Laker career doesn't qualify)

At this juncture I don't see Kobe moving up much further. It'll be tough for him to pass Hakeem and Shaq, a miracle for him to pass Timmy, and impossible for him to reach Bird.

[Cali Syndicate]

10th.

3rd of this generation of players.

2nd SG of all time.

3rd greatest Laker. (Shaq's Laker career doesn't qualify)

At this juncture I don't see Kobe moving up much further. It'll be tough for him to pass Hakeem and Shaq, a miracle for him to pass Timmy, and impossible for him to reach Bird.

WHAT?? Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time!!! Who's better than him? Magic? Kareem??

Okay, yeah he's like 3rd then.

[AK47DR91]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell (I hate putting him up so high because those easy championships but whatever)
--------------
5, 6, 7. Chamberlain, Bird and Shaq are interchangeable
8. Duncan
9, 10. Hakeem and Kobe

[LEFT4DEAD]

Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant

[Deuce Bigalow]

Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant
02: 27-6-5 62 TS%
09: 32-6-7 53 TS%

Not great Finals?

[LakersReign]

Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif
Comparing Kobe to Moses Malone pretty much proves you're SERIOUSLY clueless as to what you're talking about:facepalm

[LEFT4DEAD]

02: 27-6-5 62 TS%
09: 32-6-7 53 TS%

Not great Finals?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
And how do you plan to compare it with some of Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan's historical finals???



Comparing Kobe to Moses Malone pretty much proves you're SERIOUSLY clueless as to what you're talking about:facepalm

26/18 50%FG in the Finals against 2nd best player of all times Abdul-Jabbar and the Lakers is better than anything Kobe has done so far.

[RazorBaLade]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
And how do you plan to compare it with some of Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan's historical finals???



26/18 50%FG in the Finals against 2nd best player of all times Abdul-Jabbar and the Lakers is better than anything Kobe has done so far.

youre an idiot if you dont acknowledge AT THE VERY LEAST eFG%/TS% which factors in 3 pters being worth more

[LakersReign]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
And how you plan to compare it with some of Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan's historical finals???
26/18 50%FG in the Finals against 2nd best player of all times Abdul-Jabbar and the Lakers is better than anything Kobe has done so far.

Child please:rolleyes:

No one in their right mind, who claims to know basketball would ever put Kobe and Moses Malone in the same category, so just stop:facepalm

[Punpun]

According to a previous thread I made, anywhere from 4 to 6.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Child please:rolleyes:

No one in their right mind, who claims to know basketball would ever put Kobe and Moses Malone in the same category, so just stop:facepalm
Would you mind to explain me what has Kobe done that was better than Malone's finals against the Lakers???

[LEFT4DEAD]

youre an idiot if you dont acknowledge AT THE VERY LEAST eFG%/TS% which factors in 3 pters being worth more
Let me guess, its smt that doesn't make Kobe a shot jacker. :lol
No finals above 42% FG is smt really sad for a player who wants to be in top 10.

[INDI]

My criteria for top ten is this. First and foremost you have to be considered a superstar, then it comes down to your career. At least one championship, awesome stats for your position, and the best at whatever it is you do. Most of all though you got to have the "it" factor. That's that special thing you can't put your hand on but know its there.


Kobe is 7th currently ( absolutely had a better career than Duncan, shaq, and Hakeem). I think when it's all said and done he will pass Russell and bird to be considered the 5th overall ( at the very highest number 4 if people consider his career better than wilts)

[Psileas]

Is the main purpose of this thread to see where we rank Kobe or just to post our own top-10 and have certain choices of us ridiculed by certain people who don't agree with them - which is what has happened with some choices here?

I have Kobe at around #8 all-time. Best case scenario, he ends up somewhere at #6.

[INDI]

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time

Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list by SLAM (http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/)

Right now I have #7 All-Time.

great post I totally agree

[INDI]

I'm curious to the people who have Kobe above Shaq. Why is Kobe ahead of Shaq to you guys?




:confusedshrug:

The only thing shaq has better than Kobe is peak, and that's debatable because Kobe's peak is much longer. He has been more than ten years in the conversation for the best player in the league. He has more rings Allstar selections, broke more records and has a better defensive resume. All shaq has is a peak of peaks better and 1 more fmvp ( which partly was because of Kobe's amazing play)

[Horatio33]

His efficiency, lack of great finals moments and shot jacking let him down from being GOAT. He is 9th or 10th.

[INDI]

but these old timers would get embarrassed in todays NBA....they are from a different era.........how can they be higher then stars of today ?

You have to take their build and game type, and put it in today's style of play.

Magic- would be a 6'9 pg, that would stay top two in assists, a dominant post player and triple double machine.

Bird would be a dirk nowitzki type small forward with better D, ball handle, and passing ability.

Etc......

[scandisk_]

#8 on my list, below Duncan and above Shaq

[LakersReign]

Would you mind to explain me what has Kobe done that was better than Malone's finals against the Lakers???

You're really going to sit here and INSIST on "talking out your a**", making yourself look ret**ded...huh? But then again, you're a Lebron fan, so I'm not surprised. Moses Malone only won one title in his entire career. If I have to explain to you how 1....IS NOT = 5, then you truly are a moron. And nothing else you say on here should be taken seriously.:facepalm

[LEFT4DEAD]

You're really going to sit here and INSIST on "talking out your a**", making yourself look ret**ded...huh? But then again, you're a Lebron fan, so I'm not surprised. Moses Malone only won one title in his entire career. If I have to explain to you how 1....IS NOT = 5, then you truly are a moron. And nothing else you say on here should be taken seriously.:facepalm
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Classy Kobetard's strategy! Lets compare rings. Than Horry >>>>>> Kobe by your logic ha??? And Kobe has 2 rings. Im not even sure he has those 3 on his hand right now that Shaq gave him. He sold it or smt like that because he even knows those rings are not his. :lol
Lebron with one more FMVP and one more ring will be higher than Kobe on the all time list! U MAD?

[LakersReign]

Classic know nothing about basketball Lebron fan. Let's take a player, who has either never won a title, never been to the Finals, or has only won one title, and compare him to Kobe. Then claim he's better than Kobe, simply cuz we hate Kobe. Which proves we have absolutely no clue as to what we're talking about:roll: :roll: :roll:

Couldn't help but notice you haven't even botherted telling me what exactly makes Malone supposedly better than Kobe. Big surprise:rolleyes:

Stop embarrassing yourself:facepalm

[RRR3]

:roll: :roll: :roll: at not having Jordan at #1
You didn't have Jordan at 1 either:biggums:

[LEFT4DEAD]

Classic know nothing about basketball Lebron fan. Let's take a player, who has either never won a title, or never been to the Finals, or has only won one title, and compare him to Kobe. Then claim he's better than Kobe, simply cuz we hate Kobe. Which proves we have absolutely no clue as to what we're talking about:roll: :roll: :roll:

Couldn't help but notice you haven't even botherted telling me what exactly makes Malone supposedly better than Kobe. Big surprise:rolleyes:

Stop embarrassing yourself:facepalm
OK than. Lets compare their performances. Post me anything that Kobe has done better than Malone's finals against the Lakers! Im asking you third time to do that and you are avoiding that. So, post it!

[DaHeezy]

You didn't have Jordan at 1 either:biggums:

I know eh? And the retard did it twice.

[DaHeezy]

Is the main purpose of this thread to see where we rank Kobe or just to post our own top-10 and have certain choices of us ridiculed by certain people who don't agree with them - which is what has happened with some choices here?

I have Kobe at around #8 all-time. Best case scenario, he ends up somewhere at #6.

Listen to this wisdom


ISH, where opinions go to die

[LakersReign]

OK than. Lets compare their performances. Post me anything that Kobe has done better than Malone's finals against the Lakers! Im asking you third time to do that and you are avoiding that. So, post it!

Child please:rolleyes:

You're the one talking all that trash about how Malone and Kobe are supposedly on the same level, and CAN'T prove it? Now you're asking me to prove to you why Kobe is better. Keeping in mind you have never proven anything, other than "cuz I said so." You're CLEARLY talking out your a** like I said before. Either post your proof, since YOU'RE the one saying Malone is on Kobe's level, or simply STFU:roll:

[trabash]

Top 15

[Ne 1]

Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant


Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Jordan, Duncan and Hakeem are the only players you could reasonably rank ahead of him.

:oldlol: @ Oscar or Moses being ranked ahead of Kobe.

Do you guys have any sense of how to evaluate a players legacy or place today's players in historical context?

He has 5 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, NBA MVP, scoring titles, 7 Finals appearance, excellent statistics etc etc and he's not 'cemented' in your top 10? :facepalm

[LEFT4DEAD]

Child please:rolleyes:

You're the one talking all that trash about how Malone and Kobe are supposedly on the same level, and CAN'T prove it? Now you're asking me to prove to you why Kobe is better. Keeping in mind you have never proven anything, other than "cuz I said so." You're CLEARLY talking out your a** like I said before. GTFOH:roll:
This guy is just pathetic. You cant show me some facts that Kobe is better than Moses fcking Malone and you want me to have a serious conversation with you. Kobetard without any knowledge, avoiding to discuss about basketball. Sad. Go to bed kid. :sleeping :sleeping

[LEFT4DEAD]

Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Jordan, Duncan and Hakeem are the only players you could reasonably rank ahead of him.

:oldlol: @ Oscar or Moses being ranked ahead of Kobe.

Do you guys have any sense of how to evaluate a players legacy or place today's players in historical context?

He has 5 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, NBA MVP, scoring titles, 7 Finals appearance, excellent statistics etc etc and he's not 'cemented' in your top 10? :facepalm
Who said they are above him? Do you see the word interchangeable? Guy has no great finals, and without one he would be a disgrace in the top 10 list.

[jlauber]

Is the main purpose of this thread to see where we rank Kobe or just to post our own top-10 and have certain choices of us ridiculed by certain people who don't agree with them - which is what has happened with some choices here?

I have Kobe at around #8 all-time. Best case scenario, he ends up somewhere at #6.

The best post on the topic, and BTW, I agree 100%.

:cheers:

[I LUV KOBE]

This guy is just pathetic. You cant show me some facts that Kobe is better than Moses fcking Malone and you want me to have a serious conversation with you. Kobetard without any knowledge, avoiding to discuss about basketball. Sad. Go to bed kid. :sleeping :sleeping
Moses a prophet, Kobe is a Gawd.. Facts...

[LEFT4DEAD]

Moses a prophet, Kobe is a Gawd.. Facts...
Are you going to run away from this thread like you did yesterday too? :roll: :roll:

[LakersReign]

This guy is just pathetic. You cant show me some facts that Kobe is better than Moses fcking Malone and you want me to have a serious conversation with you. Kobetard without any knowledge, avoiding to discuss about basketball. Sad. Go to bed kid. :sleeping :sleeping

The only person here who's CLEARLY pathetic is OBVIOUSLY....YOU:applause:

YOU'RE the one who posted this:
Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant

And now CAN'T defend it. So, you're trying to pass the burden of proof off on me, cuz you're now realizing just how stupid you're making yourself look. I didn't say Malone was on Kobe's level...THAT WAS YOU. Therefore I don't have to prove anything....YOU DO CUZ YOU'RE THE ONE WHO SAID IT. Again, either post your proof than Malone is on Kobe's level or simply STFU:hammerhead:

[Punpun]

Nope. My ranking consisting in putting the second greatest guard ever in the fourth to six rank is actually the most brilliant idea in this thread.

[I LUV KOBE]

Are you going to run away from this thread like you did yesterday too? :roll: :roll:
I have a life.. I dont spend my whole time here.. Like someone maybe you.. :confusedshrug:

[LEFT4DEAD]

The only person here who's CLEARLY pathetic is OBVIOUSLY....YOU:applause:

YOU'RE the one who posted this:

And now CAN'T defend it. So, you're trying to pass the burden of proof off on me, cuz you're now realizing just how stupid you're making yourself look. I didn't say Malone was on Kobe's lever...THAT WAS YOU. Therefore I don't have to prove anything....YOU DO CUZ YOU'RE THE ONE WHO SAID IT. Again, either post your proof than Malone is on Kobe's level or simply STFU:hammerhead:
I will not even read this post. Idiocy of this guy continues. All I see is "YOU YOU YOU", even though I ask you 3 times to post smt that Kobe done better than Malone's finals. This is not even funny, this is sad.:wtf:

[LEFT4DEAD]

I have a life.. I dont spend my whole time here.. Like someone maybe you.. :confusedshrug:
I LUV KOBE
Join date: Jun 2012
22 posts per day

LEFT4DEAD
Join date: March 2009
1.1 posts per day

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[LakersReign]

I will not even read this post. Idiocy of this guy continues. All I see is "YOU YOU YOU", even though I ask you 3 times to post smt that Kobe done better than Malone's finals. This is not even funny, this is sad.:wtf:

TRANSLATION: I(left4dead) posted some bogus AT list, comparing Kobe to Malone, that I(left4dead) CAN'T defend. And now after I(left4dead) made myself look stupid, I(left4dead) have come up with some even more bogus excuse to run away, so I can try to save face:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DatAsh]

I'm curious to the people who have Kobe above Shaq. Why is Kobe ahead of Shaq to you guys?




:confusedshrug:


I was just pulling his leg. The dude hates Jordan, and hates in when people say he's the undisputed #1.

[LEFT4DEAD]

:facepalm
TRANSLATION: I(left4dead) posted some bogus AT list, comparing Kobe to Malone, that I(left4dead) CAN'T defend. And now after I(left4dead) made myself look stupid, I(left4dead) have come up with some even more bogus excuse to try and save face so I(left4dead) can haul a**:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bucket_Nakedz]

8-9 Both Duncan & Kobe ahead of Hakeem.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LakersReign]

:facepalm

Yeah....I know...right?:lol

Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[RRR3]

Yeah....I know...right:lol

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
I don't agree with left4dead but I think his reasoning is that he feels Moses was a better finals performer than Kobe. Hope that helps

[LEFT4DEAD]

I don't agree with left4dead but I think his reasoning is that he feels Moses was a better finals performer than Kobe. Hope that helps
I bet he is too stupid to understand even this!

[I LUV KOBE]

I LUV KOBE
Join date: Jun 2012
22 posts per day

LEFT4DEAD
Join date: March 2009
1.1 posts per day

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Your been posting here since 2009.. Im just newly started posting here.. Its normal to have more post per day when you are new coz you're just starting to explore this forum.. Facts...

[LEFT4DEAD]

Your been posting here since 2009.. Im just newly started posting here.. Its normal to have more post per day when you are new coz you're just starting to explore this forum.. Facts...
LoL who are you fooling? Thats probably your 10th account on this forum already. STFU troll.

[DatAsh]

I know eh? And the retard did it twice.

It was a joke, I guess that didn't come across very well over the internet :(

[LakersReign]

I bet he is too stupid to understand even this!

....says the same stupid person who posted that this:
Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant

Then needed somebody else to explain it for him. So, he could jump on the bandwagon and say "yeah....that's right....that's what I meant to say." Keeping in mind, when asked before to explain it, his response was "uh.....you prove it." Which means he couldn't even explain his own words. And NOW he has the nerve to try and call other people stupid?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[I LUV KOBE]

LoL who are you fooling? Thats probably your 10th account on this forum already. STFU troll.
:wtf:

[LEFT4DEAD]

....says the same stupid person who posted that this:

Then needed somebody else to explain it for him. So, he could jump on the bandwagon and say "yeah....that's right....that's what I meant to say." Keeping in mind, when asked before to explain it, his response was "uh.....you prove it.":roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Wait a minute. So posting Malone's finals stats against Lakers and asking you to post smt that Kobe has done better is not saying that Malone was the better finals performer??? Are you high??? :wtf:

And as I can see I put on that list
Malone/ Kobe/ Oscar interchangeable. That means I have no problems however someone rank those three, but I personally would put Malone above Kobe. You really make me question your mental state boy. :confusedshrug:

[LakersReign]

Wait a minute. So posting Malone's finals stats against Lakers and asking you to post smt that Kobe has done better is not saying that Malone was the better finals performer??? Are you high??? :wtf:

And as I can see I put on that list
Malone/ Kobe/ Oscar interchangeable. That means I have no problems however someone rank those three, but I personally would put Malone above Kobe. You really make me question your mental state boy. :confusedshrug:

Try harder:sleeping

You never bothered to prove anything, and when asked to do so, all you could respond with was "uh....you prove it." So....you couldn't prove anything that you posted, but yet you still want to demand proof from other people?:wtf:


Good luck with that:sleeping

[AlonzoGOAT]

9-11

[LEFT4DEAD]

Try harder:sleeping

You never bothered to prove anything, and when asked to do so, all you could respond with was "uh....you prove it." So....you couldn't prove anything that you posted, but yet you still want to demand proof from other people?:wtf:


Good luck with that:sleeping


26/18 50%FG in the Finals against 2nd best player of all times Abdul-Jabbar and the Lakers is better than anything Kobe has done so far.
Im quoting myself since you are such a retard. Page 6, post no. 3. Oh God, you must feel so dumb right now. Believe me, you are dumb. :applause:

[JMT]

He's among the top 10 players I've seen in 40+ years watching the NBA.

I'm always amazed at how high people rank Shaq and Hakeem.

[LakersReign]

Im quoting myself since you are such a retard. Page 6, post no. 3. Oh God, you must feel so dumb right now. Believe me, you are dumb. :applause:

Try harder:rolleyes:

Holla back when you can show me a link to a post on ANY page before this one, where you(NOT somebody else) explained why Malone is on Kobe level:sleeping

[LEFT4DEAD]

Try harder:sleeping

Holla back when you can show me a post on ANY page before this one, where you explained why Malone is on Kobe level:sleeping
With every new post you are proving yourself dumber and dumber. Your parents have to be proud. Well done. :confusedshrug:

[LakersReign]

With every new post you are proving yourself dumber and dumber. Your parents have to be proud. Well done. :confusedshrug:

The truth really does hurt....doesn't it?:roll:

[LEFT4DEAD]

The truth really does hurt....doesn't it?:roll:
...and dumber.... (waiting for the next post)

[LakersReign]

...and dumber.... (waiting for the next post)


Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant:hammerhead: :lol

[LEFT4DEAD]

:hammerhead: :lol
... and dumber... (waiting for the next post)

[LakersReign]

... and dumber... (waiting for the next post)


Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=5

[LEFT4DEAD]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=5
...and dumber... (waiting for the next post)

[LEFT4DEAD]

So....you FINALLY admit to your own post:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=5

being dumb(his exact words)?:hammerhead:
...and dumber... (waiting for the next post)

[LakersReign]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
And how do you plan to compare it with some of Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan's historical finals???



26/18 50%FG in the Finals against 2nd best player of all times Abdul-Jabbar and the Lakers is better than anything Kobe has done so far.



youre an idiot if you dont acknowledge AT THE VERY LEAST eFG%/TS% which factors in 3 pters being worth more

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=6

Now watch carefully as he tells me AGAIN how HIS OWN POSTS are SOMEHOW supposedly making me look dumb:roll:

[LEFT4DEAD]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=6

Now watch carefully as he tells me AGAIN how HIS OWN POSTS are SOMEHOW supposedly making me look dumb:roll:
...and dumber... (waiting for the next post)

[LEFT4DEAD]

"Buh....buh....buh....Malone/Oscar/Kobe are interchangeable- Left4DEAD:oldlol:

*Repeat* and dumber(waiting for next post) *Repeat*:applause:
...and dumber... (waiting for the next post)

[Heat1011]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Duncan
10. LeBron

Kobe's not even top 20 yet

[Deuce Bigalow]

Let me guess, its smt that doesn't make Kobe a shot jacker. :lol
No finals above 42% FG is smt really sad for a player who wants to be in top 10.
He shot 51.4% in '02 Finals

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Duncan
10. LeBron

Kobe's not even top 20 yet
http://i.imm.io/vEbU.jpeg

[TheMarkMadsen]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Duncan
10. LeBron

Kobe's not even top 20 yet

:lol :lol :lol


He still has enough years left in the tank to possibly crack your top 15 :confusedshrug:

Please post 10-20 :roll:

[quick96]

THE REAL TOP TEN

1. Kobe "the G.O.A.T" Bryant
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russel / Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar / Bill Russel
5. Magic Johnson
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Larry Bird
8. Tim Duncan
9. Jerry West
10. Michael "90's expansion team cupcake" Jordan

[LakersReign]

He shot 51.4% in '02 Finals

The idiot OBVIOUSLY has absolutely no idea of what he's talking about. And the FACT that all he could do was go into ret**ded troll mode to try and play it off just made that even more clear. Just more proof as well of "left4dead" being yet another one of 32dayz/bwink's pathetic "sock puppet" accounts. The ret**ded irrational Kobe hate is ALWAYS a dead giveaway:facepalm

[Overdrive]

He's among the top 10 players I've seen in 40+ years watching the NBA.

I'm always amazed at how high people rank Shaq and Hakeem.

I guess it's their influence on clubs winning championships.

Alot of people praise Hakeem's footwork, the style of his moves and overall play, his defense and his impact on newer generations of post players(nobody trains with Ewing, Robinson or Mutombo, although they're about the same age), but if he hadn't won those two rings as the main alpha dog he wouldn't be in most people's top 20 or even 30.

Shaq on the other hand was comparable to Lebron before winning his ring. He was putting up monster stats, his teams started getting winning records in his second season and never stopped doing that(I know that neither the Heat after 06, the Suns, Cavs nor Celtics were led by him and still won).
Everybody was talking about him underachieving, not winning a ring, that he can't be compared to the pasttime greats, although always being in the discussion, and that a ring would put him into consideration for the best centers of all time.

Shaq's rings were anticipated, that's how big his impact was.

[The Choken One]

Kobe's in the 5th to 8th range.

You're delusional if you have him any lower or higher.

[LEFT4DEAD]

The idiot was OBVIOUSLY "talking out his a**" just like I said. He seems to think he proved something other than that by going into ret**ded troll mode:facepalm
...and dumber... (waiting for the next post)

[Deuce Bigalow]

...and dumber... (waiting for the next post)
says the guy who just said Kobe never shot above 42% in the finals

:oldlol: :facepalm

says the guy who ranks Kobe interchangable with Moses

:oldlol:

[onhcetum]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe

Btw stop this perpetuating this whole longevity bullshit and making up these contrived stats like "most points averaged" in a player's 16th season. That's like saying player X is the first since player X in year X to have 40 points, 4 assists and 8 rebounds in a game...LOL. Hmm maybe getting drafted at 17 and going straight from high school had something do with that.

You realize Tim Duncan was NBA ready straight from high school and was going #1 even after his first year at Wake Forest right? Here let's add 4 more PRIME seasons of 20-22ppg, 10-12 rpg, 2-3 bpg and all-star appearances, all-nba first teams, and all-defensive and you will realize how much Duncan would shit all over Kobe in accolades, but even if you look at what it really is, they are neck and neck as it is. Stop having a cow over Kobe "OMFG kobe at 32-33 still playing at a high level". You realize Duncan at 32 was coming off a title as the ALPHA, first team all-defensive and all-nba first team. Never missing the playoffs, winning 50 games every season.. and even in his twilight, he's STILL ANCHORING a defensive that hasn't had a legit center over 6'7" since what 2005? 90% of the ppl that post on here don't even play basketball, so I doubt you guys know how much defense matters. You know how demoralizing it to have a guy patrol the paint area and block/alter every shot and grab every rebound? That ALONE is why he's below Hakeem and Duncan.

Also for a player that some regard as supposedly as high as top 3-5 of ALL TIME, his performance from 2005-2007 is PATHETIC. How can Kobe be in the conversation if in his ATHLETIC AND ABSOLUTE PEAK not be able to carry his team. Two mediocre seasons of 40-50 wins and first round exits and not making the playoffs one year all together. Please explain that to me. I don't give a **** about his teammates. You guys act like he's the ONLY PLAYER history to have had a bad team. Also... 1 MVP award in 16 SEASONS. THAT IS PITIFUL... Duncan, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Bird all have multiple MVP's (throw in Lebron too). Of course, I'm talking using "top 10" of all time standards.

He'll never be any higher than Shaq. I'm sorry. It was Shaq teams couldn't stop, not Kobe. I would post some more things, but if you don't realize that fact now, I'm not even gonna entertain a debate. He wasn't even the alpha of his own team...

When I think of dominant, GAME CHANGING players... I think of Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Jordan... THOSE GUYS. Heck, I have a lot of respect for guys like Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson too. They put their teams on their shoulders and carried them. Kobe is a overly glorified high volume shooter. OPEN YOUR EYES just because Kidd, Nash, and those other guys didn't put up 30 ppg doesn't mean they were any less important/vital to their teams success.

This list is based on peak/prime/accoldaes/dominance/stats/milestones and all of that bullshit but if we are talking about dominance he's not even in the top 15 for sure. Guys like Lebron, David Robinson are all above him, heck even throw Dwight Howard in there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

10th.

3rd of this generation of players.

2nd SG of all time.

3rd greatest Laker. (Shaq's Laker career doesn't qualify)

At this juncture I don't see Kobe moving up much further. It'll be tough for him to pass Hakeem and Shaq, a miracle for him to pass Timmy, and impossible for him to reach Bird.
A thread I made on the greatest Lakers:

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Los Angeles Lakers Awards/Records

Magic Johnson

5

[swag2011]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe

Btw stop this perpetuating this whole longevity bullshit and making up these contrived stats like "most points averaged" in a player's 16th season. That's like saying player X is the first since player X in year X to have 40 points, 4 assists and 8 rebounds in a game...LOL. Hmm maybe getting drafted at 17 and going straight from high school had something do with that.

You realize Tim Duncan was NBA ready straight from high school and was going #1 even after his first year at Wake Forest right? Here let's add 4 more PRIME seasons of 20-22ppg, 10-12 rpg, 2-3 bpg and all-star appearances, all-nba first teams, and all-defensive and you will realize how much Duncan would shit all over Kobe in accolades, but even if you look at what it really is, they are neck and neck as it is. Stop having a cow over Kobe "OMFG kobe at 32-33 still playing at a high level". You realize Duncan at 32 was coming off a title as the ALPHA, first team all-defensive and all-nba first team. Never missing the playoffs, winning 50 games every season.. and even in his twilight, he's STILL ANCHORING a defensive that hasn't had a legit center over 6'7" since what 2005? 90% of the ppl that post on here don't even play basketball, so I doubt you guys know how much defense matters. You know how demoralizing it to have a guy patrol the paint area and block/alter every shot and grab every rebound? That ALONE is why he's below Hakeem and Duncan.

Also for a player that some regard as supposedly as high as top 3-5 of ALL TIME, his performance from 2005-2007 is PATHETIC. How can Kobe be in the conversation if in his ATHLETIC AND ABSOLUTE PEAK not be able to carry his team. Two mediocre seasons of 40-50 wins and first round exits and not making the playoffs one year all together. Please explain that to me. I don't give a **** about his teammates. You guys act like he's the ONLY PLAYER history to have had a bad team. Also... 1 MVP award in 16 SEASONS. THAT IS PITIFUL... Duncan, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Bird all have multiple MVP's (throw in Lebron too). Of course, I'm talking using "top 10" of all time standards.

He'll never be any higher than Shaq. I'm sorry. It was Shaq teams couldn't stop, not Kobe. I would post some more things, but if you don't realize that fact now, I'm not even gonna entertain a debate. He wasn't even the alpha of his own team...

When I think of dominant, GAME CHANGING players... I think of Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Jordan... THOSE GUYS. Heck, I have a lot of respect for guys like Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson too. They put their teams on their shoulders and carried them. Kobe is a overly glorified high volume shooter. OPEN YOUR EYES just because Kidd, Nash, and those other guys didn't put up 30 ppg doesn't mean they were any less important/vital to their teams success.

This list is based on peak/prime/accoldaes/dominance/stats/milestones and all of that bullshit but if we are talking about dominance he's not even in the top 15 for sure. Guys like Lebron, David Robinson are all above him, heck even throw Dwight Howard in there.


Lol funny how you crucify Kobe for only having 1 MVP, when Shaq only has 1 himself? bu, bu, but what's your excuse for that?

Didn't Hakeem miss the playoffs? Wasn't he knocked out first round 2 years straight with mediocre seasons of 40 and 50 wins? Didn't he miss the playoffs in his prime lol?

Not even comparing them at all, but just showing how mad you are lol. Carry on :lol

[LakersReign]

He'll never be any higher than Shaq. I'm sorry. It was Shaq teams couldn't stop, not Kobe. I would post some more things, but if you don't realize that fact now, I'm not even gonna entertain a debate. He wasn't even the alpha of his own team...

When I think of dominant, GAME CHANGING players... I think of Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Jordan... THOSE GUYS. Heck, I have a lot of respect for guys like Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson too. They put their teams on their shoulders and carried them. Kobe is a overly glorified high volume shooter. OPEN YOUR EYES just because Kidd, Nash, and those other guys didn't put up 30 ppg doesn't mean they were any less important/vital to their teams success.

This list is based on peak/prime/accoldaes/dominance/stats/milestones and all of that bullshit but if we are talking about dominance he's not even in the top 15 for sure. Guys like Lebron, David Robinson are all above him, heck even throw Dwight Howard in there.


He'll never be any higher than Shaq. I'm sorry. It was Shaq teams couldn't stop, not Kobe.

Love it how haters keep trying to hide behind that one like it's some sort of shield. Holla back when you can tell me exactly what Shaq won in Orlando without Kobe and also what he won in LA, BEFORE Kobe became a starter.


When I think of dominant, GAME CHANGING players... I think of Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Jordan... THOSE GUYS. Heck, I have a lot of respect for guys like Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson too. They put their teams on their shoulders and carried them. Kobe is a overly glorified high volume shooter. OPEN YOUR EYES just because Kidd, Nash, and those other guys didn't put up 30 ppg doesn't mean they were any less important/vital to their teams success.

This list is based on peak/prime/accoldaes/dominance/stats/milestones and all of that bullshit but if we are talking about dominance he's not even in the top 15 for sure. Guys like Lebron, David Robinson are all above him, heck even throw Dwight Howard in there.

The last sentence tells all we need to know about how objective you're being here:facepalm

[onhcetum]

Lol funny how you crucify Kobe for only having 1 MVP, when Shaq only has 1 himself? bu, bu, but what's your excuse for that?

Didn't Hakeem miss the playoffs? Wasn't he knocked out first round 2 years straight with mediocre seasons of 40 and 50 wins? Didn't he miss the playoffs in his prime lol?

Not even comparing them at all, but just showing how mad you are lol. Carry on :lol

You're right. Shaq does have only 1 MVP, but Shaq is probably the most dominant and most demoralizing player of ALL TIME. Also, Shaq was the alpha on the three-peat teams... it wasn't Kobe they couldn't stop... it was Shaq

Hakeem is just as good offensively as Kobe. His defense is why I put him over Hakeem. Btw, no one talks about Hakeem like he's top 3-5. It's just a food for a though question about Kobe... for a person in HIS ABSOLUTE PEAK... to be underperforming that much. **** all the shit about his bad teammmates, if he was that GREAT, SPECIAL, and DOMINANT it wouldn't matter. Btw, Hakeems absolute peak was 1993-1995...

[Heavincent]

He'll never be any higher than Shaq. I'm sorry. It was Shaq teams couldn't stop, not Kobe. I would post some more things, but if you don't realize that fact now, I'm not even gonna entertain a debate. He wasn't even the alpha of his own team...

When I think of dominant, GAME CHANGING players... I think of Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Jordan... THOSE GUYS. Heck, I have a lot of respect for guys like Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson too. They put their teams on their shoulders and carried them. Kobe is a overly glorified high volume shooter. OPEN YOUR EYES just because Kidd, Nash, and those other guys didn't put up 30 ppg doesn't mean they were any less important/vital to their teams success.

This list is based on peak/prime/accoldaes/dominance/stats/milestones and all of that bullshit but if we are talking about dominance he's not even in the top 15 for sure. Guys like Lebron, David Robinson are all above him, heck even throw Dwight Howard in there.

Where were you in 09 and 2010 when Kobe carried his team to two championships?

[onhcetum]

Love it how haters keep trying to hide behind that one like it's some sort of shield. Holla back when you can tell me exactly what Shaq won in Orlando without Kobe and also what he won in LA, BEFORE Kobe became a starter.



The last sentence tells all we need to know about how objective you're being here:facepalm

not being bias at all... I already put Kobe in top 10, and as much as I root against Lebron, I know he's a great talent. There is literally NOTHING Kobe does better than Lebron. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Please don't give me this bullshit about having a "killer instinct" and "killer mentality"... this is a GAME, not war. It is pathetic that you think a guy like Lebron doesn't give it his all and trains everyday. Everything has was worked for. He absolutely pushes himself to the limit everyday at the gym and in the weightroom.

What I will say is that Lebron is more physically gifted than Kobe (so based on that, I will say that Kobe is more "skilled" than Lebron pound per pound for being smaller and less physical than Lebron). But in a nutshell and if I'm taking everything at face value, Lebron > Kobe. The only reason why I have Kobe over Lebron right now is because Lebron hasn't been playing that long and doesn't have the accolades to match up with Kobe yet, but if we are talking IN A VACUUM STRAIGHT UP, Lebron > Kobe all day.

Kobe is not a dominant player (great player), but not in the same class as Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird... aka GAME CHANGERS. You guys get caught up in the fact that he puts up 30 everynight and automatically declare him top 5.

[onhcetum]

Where were you in 09 and 2010 when Kobe carried his team to two championships?

I don't put too much stock in rings/titles. They are TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS. But anyways, they had Bynum + gasol two of the most skilled and dominant bigs in the game... but for the sake of it, i'll give Kobe those two titles as the alpha. That's only 2 titles as the alpha, and enough for 10th all-time (taking everything into account... scoring titles/records, all star apperances, mvp, all-nba, all-defensive, etc.)

[Ne 1]

.....

During championships runs he's put up 21/5/4, 29/7/6, 27/6/5, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6. What more can you want?

He put up 35ppg on Sacramento in 2001 and 33ppg on San Antonio and despite shooting 41-42% he had a good all around series vs Philly (25/8/5) and didn't he put up 27/6/5 on 51% shooting vs New Jersey in the 2002 Finals and 27ppg vs the Kings in the 2002 WCF? Hell, IMO, Kobe was the 2nd best player in the entire 2001 playoffs behind Shaq. Also had an excellent all around series vs Orlando in '09 (32/6/7), 34ppg vs Denver in the WCF and a good all around series vs Boston in '10 (29/8/4).

But of course Kobe detractors hold him to a higher standard than everyone else.

[Timmy D for MVP]

A thread I made on the greatest Lakers:



I think it's pretty clear Kobe is the 2nd greatest Laker ever.

Well I'm discounting Shaw because he played on so many teams although he'll be remembered as a Laker.

But what I mean is:

Magic is 3rd all time
Kareem is 4th All Time
Kobe is 10th all time.

3rd greatest Laker. As far as what he has meant to the organization, yes he falls only behind Magic imo.

[LakersReign]

not being bias at all... I already put Kobe in top 10, and as much as I root against Lebron, I know he's a great talent. There is literally NOTHING Kobe does better than Lebron. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Please don't give me this bullshit about having a "killer instinct" and "killer mentality"... this is a GAME, not war. It is pathetic that you think a guy like Lebron doesn't give it his all and trains everyday. Everything has was worked for. He absolutely pushes himself to the limit everyday at the gym and in the weightroom.

What I will say is that Lebron is more physically gifted than Kobe (so based on that, I will say that Kobe is more "skilled" than Lebron pound per pound for being smaller and less physical than Lebron). But in a nutshell and if I'm taking everything at face value, Lebron > Kobe. The only reason why I have Kobe over Lebron right now is because Lebron hasn't been playing that long and doesn't have the accolades to match up with Kobe yet, but if we are talking IN A VACUUM STRAIGHT UP, Lebron > Kobe all day.

Kobe is not a dominant player (great player), but not in the same class as Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Lebron, Magic, Bird... aka GAME CHANGERS. You guys get caught up in the fact that he puts up 30 everynight and automatically declare him top 5.

Couldn't help but notice how you never bothered to answer the question as to what exactly Shaq won in Orlando, and also what he won in LA BEFORE Kobe became a starter....why is that?:confusedshrug:

[Doctor Rivers]

Couldn't help but notice how you never bothered to answer the question as to what exactly Shaq won in Orlando, and also what he won in LA BEFORE Kobe became a starter....why is that?:confusedshrug:

You are psycho

[LEFT4DEAD]

Couldn't help but notice how you never bothered to answer the question as to what exactly Shaq won in Orlando, and also what he won in LA BEFORE Kobe became a starter....why is that?:confusedshrug:
http://limitedplaymakers.com/uploads/Shaq-carries-Kobe.jpg
:roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't put too much stock in rings/titles. They are TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS. But anyways, they had Bynum + gasol two of the most skilled and dominant bigs in the game... but for the sake of it, i'll give Kobe those two titles as the alpha. That's only 2 titles as the alpha, and enough for 10th all-time (taking everything into account... scoring titles/records, all star apperances, mvp, all-nba, all-defensive, etc.)
Bynum

09 Playoffs: 6/4
10 Playoffs: 9/7

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well I'm discounting Shaw because he played on so many teams although he'll be remembered as a Laker.

But what I mean is:

Magic is 3rd all time
Kareem is 4th All Time
Kobe is 10th all time.

3rd greatest Laker. As far as what he has meant to the organization, yes he falls only behind Magic imo.
That is All-time. That is taking account Kareem's entire career including his time with the Bucks. Many of his best years were with the Bucks, including 1971 winning the ring and FMVP. But as far as career Lakers, Kobe is better than Kareem.

[LakersReign]

http://limitedplaymakers.com/uploads/Shaq-carries-Kobe.jpg
:roll: :roll:

STILL mad you said this::
Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply cant

and ended up doing this: http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3hc1uLdeN1qg2qmno1_500.gif

Stay mad ISH dancing clown(32dayz/bwink/ALL his "sock puppet" accounts):lol

[LEFT4DEAD]

STILL mad you said this::

and ended up doing this: http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3hc1uLdeN1qg2qmno1_500.gif

Stay mad ISH dancing clown(32dayz/bwink/ALL his "sock puppet" accounts):lol
http://nikeblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/shaqkobe.jpg
Say hello to your little friend. Look how happy he is because Shaq's holding him. Why arent you? Be happy my friend, be happy. :roll: :roll:

[LEFT4DEAD]

But....why you so mad though?:lol
http://nikeblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/shaqkobe.jpg
No, Im happy. Just like Kobe on this pic. :roll: :roll:

[fpliii]

top 10

beyond that I don't know

btw I don't get the Moses comparison...right now, of retired guys, the top 10 is pretty damn near universally

Karem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Jerry West

Kobe and Duncan will make the top 10 when they retire (they're already there, but I don't like ranking active players), and probably knock out West and Robertson

who the hell has Moses in the top 10 of retired players right now? :confusedshrug:

[LEFT4DEAD]

Right....sure....uh huh. Keep telling yourself that:hammerhead:
http://nikeblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/shaqkobe.jpg
Just say Hi! :cheers: :cheers:

[LakersReign]

top 10

beyond that I don't know

btw I don't get the Moses comparison...right now, of retired guys, the top 10 is pretty damn near universally

Karem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Jerry West

Kobe and Duncan will make the top 10 when they retire (they're already there, but I don't like ranking active players), and probably knock out West and Robertson

who the hell has Moses in the top 10 of retired players right now? :confusedshrug:


Anywhere from top 10-12

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Malone/Kobe/Oscar interchangeable

guy without even one great finals cant be above players like hakeem, shaq or duncan. simply canthttp://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=5

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/YeahWhoa_photos/Basketball/20071217609c79d0cfe6cacpv3.gif

This clown is delusional enough to believe that Malone is equal to Kobe cuz he has 1 title. Keeping in mind, no one else on the planet believes that. Ask him to back that up, he can't. Hilarious:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[oolalaa]

These threads amuse me. They almost instantaneously devolve into shouting matches between prepubescent teens, ignorant twenty somethings and trolls.


And the OPs list has changed quite a bit in just the space of a few days (Bird has dropped 3 places in less than a week). I'm guessing it's going to change even more over the next few days, too.

[jlauber]

top 10

beyond that I don't know

btw I don't get the Moses comparison...right now, of retired guys, the top 10 is pretty damn near universally

Karem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Jerry West

Kobe and Duncan will make the top 10 when they retire (they're already there, but I don't like ranking active players), and probably knock out West and Robertson

who the hell has Moses in the top 10 of retired players right now? :confusedshrug:

Just curious...where do you rank Kareem?

Why?

(Keep in mind that Moses also won THREE league MVP's.)...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255307


How great was Moses Malone? The 6-10 center faced the 7-2 Kareem in 40 total games from the 76-77 season, thru Kareem's last season in 88-89.

Some here claim that Kareem's peak was in that 76-77 season, although I strongly believe that the most dominant Kareem played in the early 70's. His statistical peak came in the 70-71, 71-72, and 72-73 seasons.

Kareem was 29 in the 76-77 season, while Moses was 21. However, Moses jumped right to the ABA at age 19, so he was already in his third professional season by the time the two first met.

Now, granted, the two probably did not exclusively defend each other in every game, nor were they on the floor at the same time in portions of those games.

There are several interesting aspects to this "rivalry." I am only posting the known stats that I could find, and perhaps there are some here who can provide even more info. I did come up with every one of their scoring H2H's, all 40 of them. However, I could only find their FG%'s and rebounding numbers in their last 16 games.

And overall, Kareem team's went 21-19 against Moses, which was surprising, since Kareem played with much more talented teams in nearly all of their 13 seasons in the league together. In facr, Moses only played on ONE team that ever had a better record than Kareem, in those 13 seasons.

However, while Kareem's teams enjoyed 20-13 margin in their regular season H2H's, Moses' team went 6-1 against Kareem's in the post-season. BTW, Kareem's team's were often leveled in the post-season, despite having better regular season records. Included in those post-season H2H's, was the 80-81 Rockets, at 40-42, beating Kareem's 54-28 (Magic was injured and missed 37 games that season), 2-1 in the first round of the playoffs. And, of course, Moses' 82-83 Sixers, which went 65-17 swept Kareem's 58-24 Lakers, 4-0. That was the ONLY season in which Moses had a more talented roster, and they were clearly better, going a combined 6-0 against Kareem's team in the overall season. However, Kareem did miss one of their regular season H2H's that year, so Moses only went 5-0 against him that year.

How about their personal battles? While a much more prime Kareem, at age 29, outscored the 21 year old Moses in their first year H2H's, it was not a dramatic difference. Kareem outscored him in three of their four games, but his high game was only 29 points. And, by their fourth game that season, Moses outscored Kareem, 26-23.

Another interesting aspect was that while both players started declining somewhat after the 84-85 season, Moses' decline was sharper. Still. Moses generally outplayed Kareem even after that. But, Moses was not the dominant player that he was from the 78-79 season thru the 84-85 season.

And while Kareem won the MVP award in the 79-80 season, Moses was probably already the better player. In the 78-79 season, a 23 year old Moses exploded, and averaged 24.8 ppg, on .540 shooting, with an astonishing 17.6 rpg average (winning the rebounding title by nearly 5 per game.) Kareem averaged 23.8 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 5.4 apg, and shot .577. In Kareem's 79-80 MVP season, Abdul-Jabbar averaged 24.8 ppg, on a sensational .604 shooting, but was on a severe decline in the rebounding department, only getting 10.8 rpg. Meanwhile, Moses was at 25.8 ppg, .502 shooting, and grabbing 14.5 rpg. BUT, H2H in that Kareem MVP season, Moses DRAMATICALLY outscored Kareem, by an average margin of 30 ppg to 20 ppg. And, I have no doubt that he probably dominated Kareem on the glass, as well.

From that 79-80 season, on, Moses was CLEARLY the better player. While Kareem's numbers continued to decline, Moses jusr DOMINATED the league. From the 80-81 season thru the 84-85 season, Moses was THE best player in the league (sorry Larry and Magic, but Moses was UNSTOPPABLE.) He LED the league in rebounding EVERY season in those five years, and and scoring seasons as high as 27.8 ppg, and even 31.1 ppg.

And, the Kareem-Moses H2H's, from the 79-80 thru the 84-85 seasons reflected Moses COMPLETE DOMINATION of Kareem, as well.

After that, both declined, and while Moses generally outplayed Kareem, neither were putting up spectacular numbers.

In any case, in their 40 H2H games, Moses held a staggering 25-12-3 margin in their scoring battles. Not only that, but in their 7 playoff games, Moses enjoyed a solid 5-2 edge. And, Moses held a whopping 11-6 margin in 30+ point games against Kareem.

Kareem's two highest games against Moses were 34 and 36. Meanwhile, Moses had games of 34, 34, 35, 36, 37, 37, 38, and 39 against Kareem. And in their post-season H2H's, Moses held a 2-1 edge in 30+ point games (Kareem's high was 32, while Moses had games of 33, and even 38 in their playoff battles.)

Rebounding? As expected, Moses just CRUSHED Kareem on the glass. In the known 16 games in which I could find their rebounding totals, Moses went an unbelieveable 16-0 against Kareem. And some were by HUGE margins. For instance, in the '83 Finals, Moses not only outrebounded Kareem, 4-0, he held a MASSIVE 18-8 rpg differential.

Not only that, but given the fact that Moses was a better rebounder in EVERY season in their 13 years in the league together, there was a very good chance that Moses won the VAST MAJORITY of their rebounding H2H's. I wouldn't be surprised if the overall margin was something like a 35-5 edge (or maybe even higher.)

Kareem did SLIGHTLY outshoot Moses from the floor in those 16 H2H games, but it was very close, and overall, Kareem shot .523 in those 16 games (again, from the 82-83 season thru the 88-89 season.) Moses shot .472 overall in those last 16 H2H games.

All of which is interesting. For instance, in Kareem's 84-85 and 85-86 seasons, against Moses, he averaged 22 ppg on .513 shooting from the field against Moses in their four H2H's. Against a 22 and 23 year old Hakeem, in those two seasons, and covering 10 H2H games, Kareem averaged 31.8 ppg on a mind-boggling .630 shooting. Meanwhile, Moses averaged 23 ppg on .484 shooting against Kareem, all while outrebounding him by an average differential of 12-5 rpg.

So, for those that question Moses's defense, they had better take a closer look. He was clearly a FORCE against Kareem. Once again, Moses' dodged Kareem's truly dominant seasons ('71-73), but even a young Moses was a near match for a near prime Kareem. And a PRIME Moses just ABUSED an older Kareem (even in a Kareem MVP season in 79-80.)

[fpliii]

Just curious...where do you rank Kareem?

Why?

(Keep in mind that Moses also won THREE league MVP's.)...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255307

Kareem is pretty dicey...I used to have him 3rd behind Jordan and Magic, but I don't have a specific ranking atm (I don't really care to speculate tbh); he played half of his career in half of a league, and the other half Magic was the more integral part of the duo from the beginning (though I think KAJ was better in 1980 for the series...I think the 80 and 85 Finals MVPs should be swapped, and Magic has an argument over Worthy in 88).

Gun to my head I think I say 5th, but I'm doing a lot of research right now that might change that.

Moses was an historically great rebounder and I have him right outside of the soon-to-be big 12 guys (he's right after them, but I think there's an appreciable trouble).

However, I think the 79 MVP was close and Kareem has a case and in 82 Dr. J should've won (83 was legit).

[jlauber]

Kareem is pretty dicey...I used to have him 3rd behind Jordan and Magic, but I don't have a specific ranking atm (I don't really care to speculate tbh); he played half of his career in half of a league, and the other half Magic was the more integral part of the duo from the beginning (though I think KAJ was better in 1980 for the series...I think the 80 and 85 Finals MVPs should be swapped, and Magic has an argument over Worthy in 88).

Gun to my head I think I say 5th, but I'm doing a lot of research right now that might change that.

Moses was an historically great rebounder and I have him right outside of the soon-to-be big 12 guys (he's right after them, but I think there's an appreciable trouble).

However, I think the 79 MVP was close and Kareem has a case and in 82 Dr. J should've won (83 was legit).

Well, you are among a handful of posters that I have come to really respect here. There are very few that can back up their claims with the research that you have done.

IMHO...

1-4 and in any order... Wilt, MJ, Magic, Russell
5 Kareem is now a CLOSE 5th (before I had him a considerably lower 5th)

6-7 Shaq-Duncan (with a peak Shaq and a career Duncan)

8-11 in any order (Kobe, Hakeem, Bird, and Moses)
12 Lebron
13-15 in any order (Dr. J, West, and Oscar)

[fpliii]

Well, you are among a handful of posters that I have come to really respect here. There are very few that can back up their claims with the research that you have done.

IMHO...

1-4 and in any order... Wilt, MJ, Magic, Russell
5 Kareem is now a CLOSE 5th (before I had him a considerably lower 5th)

6-7 Shaq-Duncan (with a peak Shaq and a career Duncan)

8-11 in any order (Kobe, Hakeem, Bird, and Moses)
12 Lebron
13-15 in any order (Dr. J, West, and Oscar)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Moses. I also have Kobe probably 7th right now ahead of Shaq and Duncan (Bird at 6, but I might revise that; on another board people have made compelling arguments for Kobe ahead of Bird), but that's not a big deal. Two questions:

1) What's the argument for LeBron ahead of West, Oscar?
2) Where do you have DWade right now (my current favorite player; followed Shaq and his teams from when he entered the league until he got washed up, stuck with Wade)?

[jlauber]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Moses. I also have Kobe probably 7th right now ahead of Shaq and Duncan (Bird at 6, but I might revise that; on another board people have made compelling arguments for Kobe ahead of Bird), but that's not a big deal. Two questions:

1) What's the argument for LeBron ahead of West, Oscar?
2) Where do you have DWade right now (my current favorite player; followed Shaq and his teams from when he entered the league until he got washed up, stuck with Wade)?

Lebron has THREE MVPs, as well as TWO scoring titles, and was THE man in his one championship.

As for Wade...I don't know. I really haven't taken the time to consider him. His career is obviously under-rated, though, given the fact that he has TWO rings, and a great FMVP. Probably deserves to be Top-30.

[AlphaWolf24]

Top 5....



anyone who has Kobe below #7 should never be listened to.

[The Iron Fist]

Kareem
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Kobe
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Thomas