Lou Williams joining the Hawks

[novocaine]

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN
The Atlanta Hawks have agreed to a deal with free agent G Lou Williams, a source told http://ESPN.com. Story posted soon.

[DuMa]

so now they have 2 jeff teagues

[wang4three]

Isn't he from Atlanta?

[TMT]

So he's going to come off the bench on another mediocre team? Don't get it.

[Reverend Hoops]

so now they have 2 jeff teagues

Horf, Teague 2 1sts for Dwight confirmed?

[marion706]

teague
williams
morrow
smith
dwight



:bowdown: almost all Atlanta squad

[Raz]

Hawks in the lottery for sure

[hawksdogsbraves]

He will get a lot of run, we have no depth at the 2

[magnax1]

I'm sure people are going to hate me saying this, but I don't think Williams gives a lot worse production the Johnson on a per minute basis. Worse defense, not the rebounder, and obviously isn't a real PG, but I just don't feel like Johnson's value is all that high.

[All Net]

Good pickup

[DTreats]

I'm sure people are going to hate me saying this, but I don't think Williams gives a lot worse production the Johnson on a per minute basis. Worse defense, not the rebounder, and obviously isn't a real PG, but I just don't feel like Johnson's value is all that high.
I rather have Williams at what he's making than Johnson with that contract that's for sure.

[fatboy11]

I'm sure people are going to hate me saying this, but I don't think Williams gives a lot worse production the Johnson on a per minute basis. Worse defense, not the rebounder, and obviously isn't a real PG, but I just don't feel like Johnson's value is all that high.

Man.....come on.

I get that people think Joe Johnson is overpaid, but this is just ridiculous.

[magnax1]

Man.....come on.

I get that people think Joe Johnson is overpaid, but this is just ridiculous.
It's not even about the $. He's just plain over rated on top of being over paid. He is consistently awful in the playoffs. I'd definitely take Johnson over Williams, but the difference is not large by any means.

[Reverend Hoops]

Man.....come on.

I get that people think Joe Johnson is overpaid, but this is just ridiculous.

Production is very similar. Joe is not a good rebounder for his size and doesn't get to the line at all. I would say Lou is just as good of a scorer as Joe. Maybe even better considering he gets to the line consistently.

Oh I forgot Joe is an all-star and Lou isn't. :coleman:

[hawksdogsbraves]

Man.....come on.

I get that people think Joe Johnson is overpaid, but this is just ridiculous.

Joe averaged 18/4/4 on 45% shooting last year during the regular season, and 17/3/3 on 35% shooting in the playoffs. How good do you think he is exactly?

Not to mention that he has no basketball IQ and is merely a decent defender.

[Raz]

Not to mention that he has no basketball IQ and is merely a decent defender.

If thats how Hawks fans think of him, I'm glad he's gone to greener pastures. Johnson is a stud with a contract that is far too big

[fatboy11]

Production is very similar. Joe is not a good rebounder for his size and doesn't get to the line at all. I would say Lou is just as good of a scorer as Joe. Maybe even better considering he gets to the line consistently.

Oh I forgot Joe is an all-star and Lou isn't. :coleman:

There's no comparison defensively. None. Joe wins hands down. Also, Lou Williams isn't nearly the facilitator Joe Johnson is.

They're very different players. Lou Williams is pretty much a pure scorer and Joe Johnson is the exact opposite of that while still being close to a 20 PPG scorer most seasons.

:confusedshrug:

But, yeah, Lou Williams is pretty much the same player as Joe Johnson. :rolleyes:

[Rowe]

Horf, Teague 2 1sts for Dwight confirmed?

Would be funny to see that go down.

[Meticode]

teague
williams
morrow
smith
dwight



:bowdown: almost all Atlanta squad
Eeew

[NOHCP3]

Ehhh idk about that Williams/JJ comparison. Yeah the $$ is absurd and obscures his talent level but sixers needed a go to go guy so badly in the playoffs . Lou is good but not that good.

[fatboy11]

Joe averaged 18/4/4 on 45% shooting last year during the regular season, and 17/3/3 on 35% shooting in the playoffs. How good do you think he is exactly?

Not to mention that he has no basketball IQ and is merely a decent defender.

I think he's a damn good basketball player that would benefit greatly from having another playmaker next to him (like Deron Williams). He's not a #1 guy. That's clear. But with another comparable playmaker next to him, he will shine.

He had a down year last year. Is he defined by that? Shouldn't be. Last year was tougher for the Hawks with Horford out.

No basketball IQ? Give me a break.

[fatboy11]

If thats how Hawks fans think of him, I'm glad he's gone to greener pastures. Johnson is a stud with a contract that is far too big

Hawks fan, first of all, suck. Second, they're just pissed that the team didn't do better with Joe as the #1 guy. What's he going to do, turn down max money? That gets him extra criticism and leads certain fans to underrated him.

Teaming with Deron Williams will do wonders for Joe Johnson.

[Reverend Hoops]

There's no comparison defensively. None. Joe wins hands down. Also, Lou Williams isn't nearly the facilitator Joe Johnson is.

They're very different players. Lou Williams is pretty much a pure scorer and Joe Johnson is the exact opposite of that while still being close to a 20 PPG scorer most seasons.

:confusedshrug:

But, yeah, Lou Williams is pretty much the same player as Joe Johnson. :rolleyes:

Joe is overrated as a facilitator, Josh Smith is a better passer.

Lou gets to the line more which I like.

Joe was a great defender, but he is steadily declining and doesn't guard SG's as well as he used (Thus being moved to SF for most of the season last year)
No argument there though.

[fatboy11]

Joe is overrated as a facilitator, Josh Smith is a better passer.


:biggums:

[No Evans!]

Hawks fan, first of all, suck. Second, they're just pissed that the team didn't do better with Joe as the #1 guy. What's he going to do, turn down max money? That gets him extra criticism and leads certain fans to underrated him.

Teaming with Deron Williams will do wonders for Joe Johnson.

Joe Johnson's BB IQ is kinda bad. He'll be good in BK because he won't have the ball. JJ was a large contributor to Josh Smith's jump shot attempts. So many times Joe would hold the ball, dribble into the paint , into a double team, and kick out to Josh with 3 seconds left on the clock. He was an enabler. I'm gonna miss him though.

[atljonesbro]

:biggums:
Josh Smith was the best passer on the Hawks last year...

[hawkfan]

Hawks fan, first of all, suck. Second, they're just pissed that the team didn't do better with Joe as the #1 guy. What's he going to do, turn down max money? That gets him extra criticism and leads certain fans to underrated him.

Teaming with Deron Williams will do wonders for Joe Johnson.

Some Hawk fans suck.

But hawkfan is awesome.

That said, Joe needed to go. His footspeed was gone, and more importantly his enthusiasm. He didn't care in the playoffs. He had one game where he scored 9 points against the beat up duo of Pierce and Allen. And he is supposed to be in the prime of his career.

He had a good run with the Hawks, but the team needed to move in a new direction.

I like this pickup by the Hawks. Our backcourt has Teague, Williams, Harris, Jenkins, Morrow, Stevenson, so clearly someone is going to be moved.

[fatboy11]

Joe Johnson's BB IQ is kinda bad. He'll be good in BK because he won't have the ball. JJ was a large contributor to Josh Smith's jump shot attempts. So many times Joe would hold the ball, dribble into the paint , into a double team, and kick out to Josh with 3 seconds left on the clock. He was an enabler. I'm gonna miss him though.

Part of that is his teammates not being very good. Let's be honest here. The Hawks offense was bad, and it can't all be blamed on Joe Johnson. If you surround Joe Johnson with Deron Williams, Gerald Wallace and Dwight Howard, people aren't going to be saying he has a poor basketball IQ.

It's amazing that team was able to make the playoffs and actually advance at times. Horrible, horrible offensive make-up.

[fatboy11]

Some Hawk fans suck.

But hawkfan is awesome.

There are only "some" Hawks fans, right?


That said, Joe needed to go. His footspeed was gone, and more importantly his enthusiasm. He didn't care in the playoffs. He had one game where he scored 9 points against the beat up duo of Pierce and Allen. And he is supposed to be in the prime of his career.

He had a good run with the Hawks, but the team needed to move in a new direction.

I like this pickup by the Hawks. Our backcourt has Teague, Williams, Harris, Jenkins, Morrow, Stevenson, so clearly someone is going to be moved.

No disagreement that it was time to move on.

But that doesn't mean people need to make up things that weren't true. Making up things about Joe Johnson's ability.

[fatboy11]

Josh Smith was the best passer on the Hawks last year...

:eek:

[hawkfan]

Part of that is his teammates not being very good. Let's be honest here. The Hawks offense was bad, and it can't all be blamed on Joe Johnson. If you surround Joe Johnson with Deron Williams, Gerald Wallace and Dwight Howard, people are going to be saying he has a poor basketball IQ.

It's amazing that team was able to make the playoffs and actually advance at times. Horrible, horrible offensive make-up.

I think you meant to say won't say.

He will do much better with Williams and Wallace and either Lopez or Howard. Definitely.

It was too hard for him last year with Teague learning on the job. Teague should have gotten more minutes his first two years in the league and that has hurt his development.

I'm actually surprised the Rockets didn't offer Scola and Martin for Johnson. That would have made the Rockets a more desirable location for Howard. Johnson-Howard and then add another player for a Big 3.

[fatboy11]

I think you meant to say won't say.

He will do much better with Williams and Wallace and either Lopez or Howard. Definitely.

It was too hard for him last year with Teague learning on the job. Teague should have gotten more minutes his first two years in the league and that has hurt his development.

I'm actually surprised the Rockets didn't offer Scola and Martin for Johnson. That would have made the Rockets a more desirable location for Howard. Johnson-Howard and then add another player for a Big 3.

Yes, I meant to say that they won't be saying that.

And I don't think the Hawks would have taken that deal from the Rockets. They seem to be valuing pure cap space more. Scola's deal is for 3 more years.

[No Evans!]

:eek:

He was

[atljonesbro]

:eek:
You must not watch the Hawks much. He gets people more open looks than anyone else on the Hawks by far.

[hawkfan]

Yes, I meant to say that they won't be saying that.

And I don't think the Hawks would have taken that deal from the Rockets. They seem to be valuing pure cap space more. Scola's deal is for 3 more years.

Possibly, but Martin is certainly an improvement over Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro and Jordan Williams.

Scola could have been moved out again - Horford, Scola, Teague, 2 first round picks for Howard, Turkoglu, J. Richardson.

[Freedom Kid7]

Dear God this can't end well. Atlanta remains to have less size, poor shooting, and a very high possibility of overpaying a guard once more :biggums:

[hawkfan]

Dear God this can't end well. Atlanta remains to have less size, poor shooting, and a very high possibility of overpaying a guard once more :biggums:

Or this could mean Horford, Teague, Petro (expirer), 2 first round picks for Howard, Turkoglu, J. Richardson.

[Freedom Kid7]

Or this could mean Horford, Teague, Petro (expirer), 2 first round picks for Howard, Turkoglu, J. Richardson.
Actually, that makes a bit of sense. Doesn't J. Rich and Turkeyglue both have absurd contracts though?

[fatboy11]

Actually, that makes a bit of sense. Doesn't J. Rich and Turkeyglue both have absurd contracts though?

2 years, 23.6 million for Turkoglu. 3 years, 18.5 million for Richardson.

[Freedom Kid7]

3 years, 18.5 million for Richardson.
That's not too bad.

2 years, 23.6 million for Turkoglu.
That's pretty damn bad.
Honestly, I get that Hawk fans hate Josh Smith for an absurd contract and a questionable motor. I feel at the least he is pretty young and has the ability to earn his money. Turkeyglue and Richardson are out of their peaks now and aren't worth that much money.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Horf, Teague 2 1sts for Dwight confirmed?

I thought about this when I first heard the news. :D

[Scholar]

I like this signing by the Hawks.

[fsvr54]

That's not too bad.

That's pretty damn bad.
Honestly, I get that Hawk fans hate Josh Smith for an absurd contract and a questionable motor. I feel at the least he is pretty young and has the ability to earn his money. Turkeyglue and Richardson are out of their peaks now and aren't worth that much money.

:biggums:

Hawks fans love Josh Smith, he is our best player and face of the franchise.

[GOBB]

Any terms on this deal? I saw on espn Hawks used $5mil MLE. Lookin for terms tho (years).

Also Joe Johnson is clearly better than Lou. I know JJ is overpaid as fatboy said but you dudes are too sour on the guy comparing him to Lou

[hawkfan]

Any terms on this deal? I saw on espn Hawks used $5mil MLE. Lookin for terms tho (years).

Also Joe Johnson is clearly better than Lou. I know JJ is overpaid as fatboy said but you dudes are too sour on the guy comparing him to Lou

5 million is real cheap. Fields got more and he is definitely not as good as Williams.

Why didn't Toronto sign Williams, even now with the cap space they have? Some teams.

[GOBB]

5 million is real cheap. Fields got more and he is definitely not as good as Williams.

Why didn't Toronto sign Williams, even now with the cap space they have? Some teams.

Does it go up in years? I'm trying to figure out how the deal will look year to year.

[RaininTwos]

Lou going home:bowdown: :bowdown:

nice snag by the hawks

[GOBB]

5 million is real cheap. Fields got more and he is definitely not as good as Williams.

Why didn't Toronto sign Williams, even now with the cap space they have? Some teams.

Well from what I know there were numerous teams interested. I doubt Lou wanted to play in Toronto. I think Atlanta makes sense giving his home. Thats my guess. Seems reasonable and sound. Cant knock Toronto for not signing Lou. Who wants to play there for the Craptors?

[Hotlantadude81]

Worthless signing. Typical Hawks.

[Hotlantadude81]

Lou going home:bowdown: :bowdown:

nice snag by the hawks


Really? The guy is 6'1 with limited PG skills, too short for SG and he shoots 40% from the field. Worthless signing. This bald **** just got through breaking up a team stuck in mediocrity and signing guys like this will just eat up cap space without helping the team.

[Hotlantadude81]

Production is very similar. Joe is not a good rebounder for his size and doesn't get to the line at all. I would say Lou is just as good of a scorer as Joe. Maybe even better considering he gets to the line consistently.

Oh I forgot Joe is an all-star and Lou isn't. :coleman:

Overpaid or not, Joe has never shot 40%. Lou Williams has been doing that basically his entire career.

[Hotlantadude81]

Joe averaged 18/4/4 on 45% shooting last year during the regular season, and 17/3/3 on 35% shooting in the playoffs. How good do you think he is exactly?

Not to mention that he has no basketball IQ and is merely a decent defender.

Joe is a way better player than Lou Williams.

[MJ(Mean John)]

Man.....come on.

I get that people think Joe Johnson is overpaid, but this is just ridiculous.

Lol. Thats what I'm saying.

We're talking about mothaf.ucken joe JJ Johnson.
GTFOH. Dude is nice man. Yes overpaid, but dude is a baller.

[DTreats]

This puts the Hawks above the Knicks this year, no doubt in my mind. Should be a really solid team.

[Hotlantadude81]

This puts the Hawks above the Knicks this year, no doubt in my mind. Should be a really solid team.

They need high draft picks to hopefully draft a star... Instead, it looks like Ferry is looking to add a lot of average to mediocre players to stay in the playoff race only to strike out in FA. They'll probably throw the max at garbage like Stephen Curry or whatever other 2nd rater that is available next year.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Joe is a way better player than Lou Williams.

Well he was paid like a superstar.
Lou Will is 25, 6 years younger paid the MLE, 14 million less per year, averages 15 ppg 3.5 assists 2.5 rebounds in 26 min. He is a better VALUE. With an expanded role he can showcase even more.


You must not understand the concept of value if you don't like adding Williams.:facepalm

[No Evans!]

Well he was paid like a superstar.
Lou Will is 25, 6 years younger paid the MLE, 14 million less per year, averages 15 ppg 3.5 assists 2.5 rebounds in 26 min. He is a better VALUE. With an expanded role he can showcase even more.


You must not understand the concept of value if you don't like adding Williams.:facepalm

Couldn't have said it better

[fatboy11]

Well he was paid like a superstar.
Lou Will is 25, 6 years younger paid the MLE, 14 million less per year, averages 15 ppg 3.5 assists 2.5 rebounds in 26 min. He is a better VALUE. With an expanded role he can showcase even more.


You must not understand the concept of value if you don't like adding Williams.:facepalm

What you're leaving out is that it goes both ways.

Expanded role could = exposed. How does he handle possibly being a starter? If this is a short-term deal, does that change the way he plays? There are variables at play, but he's not nearly the player Joe Johnson is. Being a better value doesn't change that. Joe Johnson may not have led ATL to the success its fans and ownership may have wanted, but I doubt Lou Williams will be able to shoulder the same burden or even come close. Lou Williams is a 6th man and Joe Johnson is a #2 option ideally. There's a big difference, actually.

I'm not saying Williams is or is not a good signing. I'm saying it's ridiculous to hold him up to Joe Johnson and suggest there isn't a drop off in production or quality. Add to that the fact that you'd have to compare Lou Williams' career year to Joe Johnson's worst year as a Hawk to even come close.

[Hotlantadude81]

Well he was paid like a superstar.
Lou Will is 25, 6 years younger paid the MLE, 14 million less per year, averages 15 ppg 3.5 assists 2.5 rebounds in 26 min. He is a better VALUE. With an expanded role he can showcase even more.


You must not understand the concept of value if you don't like adding Williams.:facepalm

Here is what I understand:

-The Hawks need a high draft pick.

-Forming a rag tag team that will squeeze into the playoffs will not help them get that player.

-If Lou Williams was so great, Philly would have kept him at this so called "bargin price".

-Lou Williams is an undersized SG that barely shoots 40% and doesn't do anything else.


Those are the things I understand. And btw, those numbers aren't shit.

[bluechox2]

why did the raptors backload fields contract? all they wanted to do was block the nash deal, so they could have just gotten him a decent contract and if he signs the offer, we cant use him in a trade anyway and we would have matched it if it wasnt that bad

[fsvr54]

What you don't understand is that Josh Smith and Teague are enough to be threepeat champions.

[hawksdogsbraves]

What you're leaving out is that it goes both ways.

Expanded role could = exposed. How does he handle possibly being a starter? If this is a short-term deal, does that change the way he plays? There are variables at play, but he's not nearly the player Joe Johnson is. Being a better value doesn't change that. Joe Johnson may not have led ATL to the success its fans and ownership may have wanted, but I doubt Lou Williams will be able to shoulder the same burden or even come close. Lou Williams is a 6th man and Joe Johnson is a #2 option ideally. There's a big difference, actually.

I'm not saying Williams is or is not a good signing. I'm saying it's ridiculous to hold him up to Joe Johnson and suggest there isn't a drop off in production or quality. Add to that the fact that you'd have to compare Lou Williams' career year to Joe Johnson's worst year as a Hawk to even come close.

I doubt you watch the Hawks much, if at all, (not that I can really blame you) but you're overrating Joe way too much.

Joe is better than Lou Williams, of course. He gets paid $14 million more per year. You have to gauge these players based on the value they give you per how much money they're paid. The NBA isn't played in a vacuum.

Joe is not a second option on a championship caliber club. He's scared of contact and doesn't get to the line. This makes him inefficient. Maybe he will bounce back with D-Will, he never had a creator in Atlanta and he is not naturally a playmaker himself. As stated earlier in this topic, yes, Josh Smith is a better passer than him, anyone who actually watched Hawks games over the past few seasons will tell you that.

You can look at this signing and see that you're getting a lot of Joe's value (at least offensively) for a fraction of the cost, and that is what a good deal is. Joe's contract held the team down, his attitude hurt chemistry, (he wanted out before we extended him, like you said, it's not his fault we offered the contract though) and he just isn't cut out to be the face of a franchise.

Good luck to him in Brooklyn, but anybody who has watched the Hawks these past few years, (and you clearly haven't) will tell you he's not the same player he was 3 years ago. And even that guy wasn't nearly worth a max contract.

[hawkfan]

This whole Joe Johnson vs. Louis Williams argument is a joke.

Joe Johnson has had a far better career and is the better overall player.

That said, it is without question that Williams is a far better fit for the Hawks right now.

Williams isn't taking over JJ's role; he's taking over the role that T-Mac was supposed to fill, the combo guard off the bench that used to be filled by Flip Murray and Jamal Crawford.

Williams is a reserve or a possible starter at point guard if Teague is traded.

Again, you can't talk about JJ without talking about his contract, because that thing prevented the Hawks from adding either another guard or another big.

Williams is here as a reserve combo guard.

Now it could be the Hawks end up trading Devin Harris and a conditional first round pick (lottery protected) for Kevin Martin. Then Martin would be taking over JJ's role.

Right now, there's isn't someone who has taken over JJ's role. That remains to be seen.

But Williams vs. Johnson is not a real valid argument.

[StateOfMind12]

Good pickup for the Hawks and definitely a good replacement at least financially for Joe Johnson. I would like to see Dwight Howard play/re-sign with the Hawks out of all the teams that want him.

[Hotlantadude81]

This whole Joe Johnson vs. Louis Williams argument is a joke.

Joe Johnson has had a far better career and is the better overall player.

That said, it is without question that Williams is a far better fit for the Hawks right now.

Williams isn't taking over JJ's role; he's taking over the role that T-Mac was supposed to fill, the combo guard off the bench that used to be filled by Flip Murray and Jamal Crawford.

Williams is a reserve or a possible starter at point guard if Teague is traded.

Again, you can't talk about JJ without talking about his contract, because that thing prevented the Hawks from adding either another guard or another big.

Williams is here as a reserve combo guard.

Now it could be the Hawks end up trading Devin Harris and a conditional first round pick (lottery protected) for Kevin Martin. Then Martin would be taking over JJ's role.

Right now, there's isn't someone who has taken over JJ's role. That remains to be seen.

But Williams vs. Johnson is not a real valid argument.

The biggest problem is that Ferry's game plan is one that will fail.

Kevin Martin:sleeping

What you have now is 3 small guards that don't defend. Probably 4 if you count Jenkins. You have a team that will probably do enough to squeeze into the playoffs and end up with a mediocre.

Let's say they trade Harris and end up with Martin... You have...

Teague/Lou Williams/Pargo
Martin/Williams/Jenkins
Morrow/Stevenson
Josh/Ivan Johnson/Jordan Williams
Al/ZaZa/????

That's no better than what they had before.

And btw, Jeff Teague is not a starter.

[No Evans!]

The biggest problem is that Ferry's game plan is one that will fail.

Kevin Martin:sleeping

What you have now is 3 small guards that don't defend. Probably 4 if you count Jenkins. You have a team that will probably do enough to squeeze into the playoffs and end up with a mediocre.

Let's say they trade Harris and end up with Martin... You have...

Teague/Lou Williams/Pargo
Martin/Williams/Jenkins
Morrow/Stevenson
Josh/Ivan Johnson/Jordan Williams
Al/ZaZa/????

That's no better than what they had before.

And btw, Jeff Teague is not a starter.


All of your posts are so angry and pessimistic. Total opposite from Fsvr, who is too optimistic and happy. There is no middle ground with you two. And what has Teague done to say he's not a starter?

[Hotlantadude81]

All of your posts are so angry and pessimistic. Total opposite from Fsvr, who is too optimistic and happy. There is no middle ground with you two. And what has Teague done to say he's not a starter?

Well, Teague has very little PG skills, he is not aggressive most of the time and he is a mediocre defender. And he is small, and paired with two other small guards in Devin Harris and Lou Williams. It's just stupid.

I should be pessimistic. I was "just being pessimistic" when I said the Hawks core would end up not getting out of the 2nd round, and Joe and Marvin would have to go. Well, what happened?

I was just being pessimistic when I said no major FA's want to sign here. Guess what, even the home town guy Dwight doesn't want to play here... And his best friend plays here!

I'm just being pessimistic. :rolleyes:

I didn't think someone would take on Joe's contract, so I was wrong there. But this core's run ended as expected. And I'm saying that Danny Ferry is using a game plan that will fail if he expects to squeeze into the playoffs this year, and sign a FA next year that will boost this franchise to the next level. It will not happen.

[No Evans!]

Well, Teague has very little PG skills, he is not aggressive most of the time and he is a mediocre defender. And he is small, and paired with two other small guards in Devin Harris and Lou Williams. It's just stupid.

I should be pessimistic. I was "just being pessimistic" when I said the Hawks core would end up not getting out of the 2nd round, and Joe and Marvin would have to go. Well, what happened?

I was just being pessimistic when I said no major FA's want to sign here. Guess what, even the home town guy Dwight doesn't want to play here... And his best friend plays here!

I'm just being pessimistic. :rolleyes:

I didn't think someone would take on Joe's contract, so I was wrong there. But this core's run ended as expected. And I'm saying that Danny Ferry is using a game plan that will fail if he expects to squeeze into the playoffs this year, and sign a FA next year that will boost this franchise to the next level. It will not happen.

Predicting the Hawks would not get out of the 2nd round is not pessimistic. Ray Charles could see that.

Using Dwight is a bad example. Dwight wants to go to Brooklyn because Adidas said they would double his endorsement deal if he went to NY or LA. The Hawks haven't had money to spend in a while.

As for Teague, he's not a great on-ball defender, but he's great at anticipating and playing the passing lanes. His only problem is his aggressiveness and confidence. I expect him to be more aggressive since he will have the ball more this year.

[wally_world]

Teague, Lou and Devin Harris - 3 shoot-first PGs :/

[Hotlantadude81]

Predicting the Hawks would not get out of the 2nd round is not pessimistic. Ray Charles could see that.

Using Dwight is a bad example. Dwight wants to go to Brooklyn because Adidas said they would double his endorsement deal if he went to NY or LA. The Hawks haven't had money to spend in a while.

As for Teague, he's not a great on-ball defender, but he's great at anticipating and playing the passing lanes. His only problem is his aggressiveness and confidence. I expect him to be more aggressive since he will have the ball more this year.


Not the mind faithful. They basically refused to accept it.

Teague is not good at running play's... He is basically just like Jason Terry was when he was the PG here.

[Hotlantadude81]

Teague, Lou and Devin Harris - 3 shoot-first PGs :/

And they're all small... But hey... Ferry is supposed to be some mastermind. I mean, he worked for San Antonio.

[Faberg]

Wait a minute. Hawks fans really thinking playoffs with that current roster? I thought Ferry trading Johnson and Williams away made it clear that they are rebuilding.

[hawksdogsbraves]

The biggest problem is that Ferry's game plan is one that will fail.

Kevin Martin:sleeping

What you have now is 3 small guards that don't defend. Probably 4 if you count Jenkins. You have a team that will probably do enough to squeeze into the playoffs and end up with a mediocre.

Let's say they trade Harris and end up with Martin... You have...

Teague/Lou Williams/Pargo
Martin/Williams/Jenkins
Morrow/Stevenson
Josh/Ivan Johnson/Jordan Williams
Al/ZaZa/????

That's no better than what they had before.

And btw, Jeff Teague is not a starter.

Give Ferry a little credit. He's not done making moves, and he's not just going to run a mediocre team out there to battle for the 8 seed. He's going to try for Dwight and if that falls through I think you'll see the Hawks blow it up (read: trade Josh Smith) and rebuild around Horford.

You've been saying all along (just like every other Hawk fan) that the previous iteration of the Hawks was a second round team at best and that Marvin and Joe needed to go. Well that's happened, so if anything you should be excited about the direction Ferry is taking the team.

It would be foolish not to at least take a shot at Dwight, until he is moved you won't see the Hawks do anything.

[fatboy11]

I doubt you watch the Hawks much, if at all, (not that I can really blame you) but you're overrating Joe way too much.

Joe is not a second option on a championship caliber club. He's scared of contact and doesn't get to the line. This makes him inefficient. Maybe he will bounce back with D-Will, he never had a creator in Atlanta and he is not naturally a playmaker himself. As stated earlier in this topic, yes, Josh Smith is a better passer than him, anyone who actually watched Hawks games over the past few seasons will tell you that.


I've been watching Joe Johnson play basketball since before you had any clue who he was. Joe Johnson is a playmaker. I won't argue that he hasn't played his best basketball lately. That doesn't change what kind of player he is. There's a reason why his peers (top talent) want to play with him. I realize you're probably fairly bitter about him given his contract, but you have to hate your ownership for that one, buddy.

A player needing a change of scenery doesn't suddenly take away abilities he's had since he was a teenager. His fellow NBA players have spoken to what kind of ability Joe Johnson has. I doubt they'd want to play with a guy with a "bad basketball IQ."

[hawkfan]

I've been watching Joe Johnson play basketball since before you had any clue who he was. Joe Johnson is a playmaker. I won't argue that he hasn't played his best basketball lately. That doesn't change what kind of player he is. There's a reason why his peers (top talent) want to play with him. I realize you're probably fairly bitter about him given his contract, but you have to hate your ownership for that one, buddy.

A player needing a change of scenery doesn't suddenly take away abilities he's had since he was a teenager. His fellow NBA players have spoken to what kind of ability Joe Johnson has. I doubt they'd want to play with a guy with a "bad basketball IQ."

Joe's problem now is that his footspeed is gone. His ability to create his own shot is far more limited now than before. He needs to play with a point guard like Williams who can create shots for him.

The Hawks are going with younger players who can run up and down, which Joe can't do anymore. Teague, Williams, Harris, Morrow, Jenkins can get up and down, which is what we need.

[fatboy11]

Joe's problem now is that his footspeed is gone. His ability to create his own shot is far more limited now than before. He needs to play with a point guard like Williams who can create shots for him.

The Hawks are going with younger players who can run up and down, which Joe can't do anymore. Teague, Williams, Harris, Morrow, Jenkins can get up and down, which is what we need.

No disagreement there. I know the Hawks needed to move on. I knew giving Joe that contract was a bad idea, but at the same time, that's pretty much the only way they can get good players to play for them - overpay for guys they already have. No good free agents want to go to ATL, so they have to keep what they have if they're anywhere near being as good as Joe Johnson. I think it's a good move to start over, though.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Joe is five full years removed from his best season. His game is clearly on a precipitous decline, and I never in a million years thought a team would be dumb enough to take on the rest of that contract for a guy who is worth maybe half what he's paid.

That's really irrelevant in this discussion, the point is that I love the Lou Williams signing, and I think he'll give us a scoring punch that we desperately needed in the backcourt with Joe gone.

[CLTHornets4eva]

I'm not saying Williams is or is not a good signing. I'm saying it's ridiculous to hold him up to Joe Johnson and suggest there isn't a drop off in production or quality. Add to that the fact that you'd have to compare Lou Williams' career year to Joe Johnson's worst year as a Hawk to even come close.

Holding Joe Johnson up to prime Joe Johnson is rediculous and suggest there isn't a drop off in production or quality and there won't CONTINUE TO BE A FURTHER DROP. Add the increasing contract from Joe and compare any future career year to his worst year with the Hawks and it doesn't come close.

If your discounting his value and also discounting his future production your only speaking of the past accomplishments that Joe had - which no one is debating, and thus not really argueing anything at all. :rolleyes:

[fatboy11]

Holding Joe Johnson up to prime Joe Johnson is rediculous and suggest there isn't a drop off in production or quality and there won't CONTINUE TO BE A FURTHER DROP. Add the increasing contract from Joe and compare any future career year to his worst year with the Hawks and it doesn't come close.

If your discounting his value and also discounting his future production your only speaking of the past accomplishments that Joe had - which no one is debating, and thus not really argueing anything at all. :rolleyes:

Go back and read my posts before you roll your eyes. I've already talked about what I think will happen in Brooklyn.

I never once suggested there wasn't a drop off in production or quality. :confusedshrug:

Declining Joe Johnson still is better than Lou Williams. That's the whole reason I stepped into this argument. People were acting like Lou Williams is equal to Joe Johnson and that just isn't true. Even a declining Joe Johnson brings more to the table than Lou Williams does.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Even a declining Joe Johnson brings more to the table than Lou Williams does.

Once again not weighing value of contract compared to production.

[fatboy11]

Once again not weighing value of contract compared to production.

We're arguing two different things.

I never said Lou Williams wasn't a good value for his contract.

[CLTHornets4eva]

We're arguing two different things.

I never said Lou Williams wasn't a good value for his contract.

All your saying is Joe Johnson is slightly better, which in the scheme of building a team doesn't really mean anything anymore.

[fatboy11]

All your saying is Joe Johnson is slightly better, which in the scheme of building a team doesn't really mean anything anymore.

I am not saying he is slightly better.

What does building a team have to do with anything?

[CLTHornets4eva]

I am not saying he is slightly better.

What does building a team have to do with anything?

That's a clown question bro. :no:


From the perspective of adding Lou Will and dropping Joe, it has everything to do with team building. :confusedshrug:

[Hotlantadude81]

Wait a minute. Hawks fans really thinking playoffs with that current roster? I thought Ferry trading Johnson and Williams away made it clear that they are rebuilding.

Unless they land Dwight, I hope they don't. But I wouldn't rule it out. The east is shit. Their current team could push 40 wins and make 8 seed. Their current team isn't as bad as they need to be if they hope to get a top draft pick. Maybe he hasn't been at that level in a couple of years, but Harris/Smith and Horford are basically they low tier all star level players. That plus a couple of shooters, and some health could be enough to get in.

[Hotlantadude81]

Give Ferry a little credit. He's not done making moves, and he's not just going to run a mediocre team out there to battle for the 8 seed. He's going to try for Dwight and if that falls through I think you'll see the Hawks blow it up (read: trade Josh Smith) and rebuild around Horford.

You've been saying all along (just like every other Hawk fan) that the previous iteration of the Hawks was a second round team at best and that Marvin and Joe needed to go. Well that's happened, so if anything you should be excited about the direction Ferry is taking the team.

It would be foolish not to at least take a shot at Dwight, until he is moved you won't see the Hawks do anything.

What I'm worried is that Ferry will fail to hand Howard, and they'll try to make the playoffs and build from there with cap space and 2 mediocre first rounders.