Exposing Karl Malone

[PistolPete44]

1997 NBA finals game 1

Michael Jordan made 1 of 2 free throws with 35.8 seconds left to tie it at 82. Then, Karl Malone was fouled by Rodman with 9.2 seconds left and had a chance to give Utah the lead. Scottie famously psyched him out, saying, "Just remember, the mailman doesn't deliver on Sundays, Karl," before he stepped up to the line. He missed them both. Jordan got the rebound and quickly called a time-out with 7.5 seconds left. With the game on the line, the Bulls put the ball in Jordan's hands. He dribbled out most of the waning seconds, then launched a 20-footer that went in at the buzzer to give Chicago a 1-0 series lead.

This is what you called "choking" , not wilt missing a few free throws while having 40 points 25 boards

Karl Malone EXPOSED.:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

One game and you exposed him? Great job man.

Wilt shooting a combined 35.7 FT% (61-171) in the '69, '70, '73 NBA Finals (losing all 3 series) is choking

[Xiao Yao You]

One game and you exposed him? Great job man.

Wilt shooting a combined 35.7 FT% (61-171) in the '69, '70, '73 NBA Finals (losing all 3 series) is choking

He was exposed in two straight finals.

[Noyze]

This happened a few times with Karl.

There was also the missed free throws down the stretch in the last game of the 1998 NBA Finals. He got criticized for leaning back at the line on his release. Bulls shouldn't have won the game let alone the series since the Jazz were favored that year.

Anyway, after that Malone also gets stripped from behind by Jordan which of course lead to the epic last jumpshot over Brian Russell. He wasn't paying attention, if he secures that rebound then the Jazz are up 1 with the possession.

[Legends66NBA7]

Really, you could expose him for all those Finals games, but one or two really.

And it's not the only time he got exposed in the playoffs either.

Karl Malone = Most Overrated Player of all-time.

[StateOfMind12]

Karl Malone = Most Overrated Player of all-time.
Really? Karl Malone is listed as a top 15-20 player of all-time by pretty much everybody. Where do you think he ranks if he is the most overrated player of all-time? In the 30-40 range? Cause if so then you pretty much know nothing about basketball. I know Karl choked and had some subpar post-season play but for whatever reason everybody ignores his great post-season runs and games.

It annoys me that Karl gets disrespected like this especially when people only disrespect him because of the person he was, not the type of game he had. He was pretty much the prototypical PF.

[Punpun]

One game and you exposed him? Great job man.

Wilt shooting a combined 35.7 FT% (61-171) in the '69, '70, '73 NBA Finals (losing all 3 series) is choking

Oh my god. :yaohappy:

"B-but Wilt could do anything if he wanted" - Jlauber

:yaohappy:

[Legends66NBA7]

Really? Karl Malone is listed as a top 15-20 player of all-time by pretty much everybody.

My main reasoning for saying he's overrated because there are some that still consider him the GOAT PF. These are usually the individuals that will exclude Duncan as a PF and call him a center, to give Malone a notch for "GOAT PF" spot.

I just think Barkley, Garnett, Dirk, and Pettit (it's hard to rank him too) did more as players.

And people rank differently. Yes, most rank him very high. I probably don't have him ranked that far off if I had a set list for player and careers.


Where do you think he ranks if he is the most overrated player of all-time?

Like I mentioned above...

I don't have a set in stone all-time list and if I were to make one, I would make one distinguishing between a player and a career.

Does Malone have Top 15-20 career ? Sure. I got no problems debating that, until more players might come one day and knock him out of there, along with others.


I know Karl choked and had some subpar post-season play but for whatever reason everybody ignores his great post-season runs and games.

Everyone does have great runs and subpar ones. But the ones still making GOAT PF claims for the man, I think there's a problem there.


It annoys me that Karl gets disrespected like this especially when people only disrespect him because of the person he was, not the type of game he had. He was pretty much the prototypical PF.

I'm aware of what is off-court issues were, his on-court incidents, etc... But I can assure you, that's not my line of thinking he's the most overrated.

I do agree that's he was the best pure power forward.

[joeyjoejoe]

He for sure is top 5 pf all time, if he was clutch in playoffs would be 1, he also faced a very good def team in the bulls and being dbld by rodman and pippen might have had somethn to do with it

[Xiao Yao You]

He for sure is top 5 pf all time, if he was clutch in playoffs would be 1, he also faced a very good def team in the bulls and being dbld by rodman and pippen might have had somethn to do with it

He was missing lay-ups. Let Rodman get inside his head.

[AK47DR91]

It's commonly known that Malone was a choker in the playoffs. OP didn't expose anything.

[pauk]

Dude shot like between 48% FT and 79% FT during his career.... im sure he would brick those same shots at the first second of the start of game...

[MastahX]

Malone is the goat PF. Duncan is a Center which is the position he played most of his career.

[swi7ch]

Pip :roll:

[ripthekik]

hmm.. sounds very similar to Lebron.. except Malone didnt join up with the bulls next year :lol

[Lebron23]

A top 5 PF and Pg of all time failed to win an NBA Championship in 18 years. Malone is top 20 in my book while Stockton is borderline top 30.

[Artillery]

Malone is the goat PF. Duncan is a Center which is the position he played most of his career.

Malone's season FG%: .516

Malone's playoff FG%: .463

At least Duncan upped his game come playoff time.

If you wanna give Malone an all-time designation, dirtiest player of all-time is more fitting.

[CakeorDeath]

If we can expose Malone with one game then we can also un-expose him with one game.

Game 5 of the '98 NBA finals. 39 points en route to a Utah win, sending the series back to Utah.

In fact, that whole series: 25.0ppg, 10.5rpg, 3.8apg, 1.0spg, 1.2 bpg, while shooting 50.4% from the field and 79% from the FT line.

[Xiao Yao You]

If we can expose Malone with one game then we can also un-expose him with one game.

Game 5 of the '98 NBA finals. 39 points en route to a Utah win, sending the series back to Utah.

In fact, that whole series: 25.0ppg, 10.5rpg, 3.8apg, 1.0spg, 1.2 bpg, while shooting 50.4% from the field and 79% from the FT line.

Too little too late. He put them in too big of a hole with his shitty play. Than to top it off he couldn't take responsibility for it and put the blame on Tag and Sloan and the whole city got behind him on that one.

[atljonesbro]

Very nice thread. I normally think of Malone as a poor mans Amare. Good job :applause:

[Dictator]

One game and you exposed him? Great job man.

Wilt shooting a combined 35.7 FT% (61-171) in the '69, '70, '73 NBA Finals (losing all 3 series) is choking

:oldlol:

[StateOfMind12]

Malone's season FG%: .516

Malone's playoff FG%: .463

At least Duncan upped his game come playoff time.

If you wanna give Malone an all-time designation, dirtiest player of all-time is more fitting.
Too bad he never said Malone was better than Duncan. All he said was that Duncan was a Center so Malone is the GOAT PF because of that. I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.


If we can expose Malone with one game then we can also un-expose him with one game.

Game 5 of the '98 NBA finals. 39 points en route to a Utah win, sending the series back to Utah.

In fact, that whole series: 25.0ppg, 10.5rpg, 3.8apg, 1.0spg, 1.2 bpg, while shooting 50.4% from the field and 79% from the FT line.
He also barbequed Shaq and the Lakers in the WCF of that post-season. The only series he struggled in that post-season was against the Spurs with Duncan and Robinson in the paint and guarding him.

[DixieNourmous]

Karl Malone was a great player. Most here in ISH never saw him play but will post bs like "hes a poor mans Amare". Amare isnt $hit compared to Malone. Rather than get into a pissing match, take a look at what you kids missed.....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4OxqDSB5I

http://sniperhunt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/pg2_a_malone_600-300x300.jpg

[I LUV KOBE]

Atleast he didnt join Jordan to win cheap ring like someone at the south beach..

[atljonesbro]

Karl Malone was a great player. Most here in ISH never saw him play but will post bs like "hes a poor mans Amare". Amare isnt $hit compared to Malone. Rather than get into a pissing match, take a look at what you kids missed.....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4OxqDSB5I

http://sniperhunt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/pg2_a_malone_600-300x300.jpg
Looks like a poor mans Amare to me :applause:

[Xiao Yao You]

Atleast he didnt join Jordan to win cheap ring like someone at the south beach..

No he just joined 4 other HOFers in LA.

[DKLaker]

Really, you could expose him for all those Finals games, but one or two really.

And it's not the only time he got exposed in the playoffs either.

Karl Malone = Most Overrated Player of all-time.

Nah.....that's Tim Duncan.

[I LUV KOBE]

No he just joined 4 other HOFers in LA.
I mean in your prime..

[Xiao Yao You]

He was still one of the best at his position when he joined. He put up over 20 a game with the Jazz the season before.

[I LUV KOBE]

He was still one of the best at his position when he joined. He put up over 20 a game with the Jazz the season before.
:no: he was just a shell of his former self when he joined the Lakers.. Dude was fcking 40 years old..

[ShaqAttack3234]

A top 5 PF and Pg of all time failed to win an NBA Championship in 18 years. Malone is top 20 in my book while Stockton is borderline top 30.

I'd probably have malone as a top 20 player all time, but I definitely wouldn't have Stockton top 30, and I haven't made a top point guard list, but if he's top 5, then it shows how weak the position is in terms of all time greats after Magic and Oscar.

No disrespect to Stockton, but the man was a borderline top 10 player in his best seasons, he never got any serious MVP votes(I don't agree with many MVP selections, but this does say something about how he was regarded against his peers).

I just can't see a guy who was not ever even arguably a top 5 player in the league, and just around the bottom of the top 10, if not slightly below in his prime seasons being that high when there were simply quite a few better players during his own era alone, much less through all of the NBA years.

[Artillery]

Too bad he never said Malone was better than Duncan. All he said was that Duncan was a Center so Malone is the GOAT PF because of that.

Which is a shitty excuse as Duncan has played power forward. And everybody's been thought this argument a thousand times already.


I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.

You're the last person that should be giving anybody advice. You always have the worst takes and even shittier predictions(lol at thinking Jazz would crush the Spurs in the playoffs because of their size, lol at calling Ibaka a top 3 DPOY candidate, lol at thinking Lin was an MVP candidate).

[StateOfMind12]

Which is a shitty excuse as Duncan has played power forward. And everybody's been thought this argument a thousand times already.
I never said he was right that Duncan is a C. I was just saying what that person meant and that you are an idiot since you couldn't comprehend what he said correctly.




You're the last person that should be giving anybody advice. You always have the worst takes and even shittier predictions(lol at thinking Jazz would crush the Spurs in the playoffs because of their size, lol at calling Ibaka a top 3 DPOY candidate, lol at thinking Lin was an MVP candidate).
:oldlol: I would change the subject too if I got exposed as someone who can't comprehend well.

By the way you big dummy, Ibaka finished 2nd in DPOY so I would like to know how that is suppose to be a bad prediction. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

:no: he was just a shell of his former self when he joined the Lakers.. Dude was fcking 40 years old..

A 40 year old shell that had just put up 21 pts(46%/76% on 8FTA)/8 rbds/5 ass/1.7 stls a game in 36 minutes on a 7th seed playoff team. He was still one of the best at his position. He increased his rebounding and FG% as the third option on the Lakers.

[Artillery]

:oldlol: I would change the subject too if I got exposed as someone who can't comprehend well.

You've been exposed as RocketsGreatness time and time again. That's embarrassing enough.

[StateOfMind12]

You've been exposed as RocketsGreatness time and time again. That's embarrassing enough.
Keep changing the subject kid because you know that you got exposed as some moron who can't comprehend correctly but if you do believe I am RocketsGreatness, feel free to check the IP address kid.

[Artillery]

Keep changing the subject kid because you know that you got exposed as some moron who can't comprehend correctly but if you do believe I am RocketsGreatness, feel free to check the IP address kid.

Definitely mad.

[I LUV KOBE]

A 40 year old shell that had just put up 21 pts(46%/76% on 8FTA)/8 rbds/5 ass/1.7 stls a game in 36 minutes on a 7th seed playoff team. He was still one of the best at his position. He increased his rebounding and FG% as the third option on the Lakers.
Compare that to a prime, an MVP and a top 3 player in the league joining another 2 prime superstar just to win a cheap ring.. :D

[Xiao Yao You]

Compare that to a prime, an MVP and a top 3 player in the league joining another 2 prime superstar just to win a cheap ring.. :D

With those numbers he's comparable to Bosh.

[I LUV KOBE]

With those numbers he's comparable to Bosh.
3rd Option Bosh >>>>>>>>>> 3rd option Malone in Lakers... You're underrating Bosh so much..

[willds09]

With those numbers he's comparable to Bosh.
bosh sucks

[Raz]

Malone is underrated if anything. If a few plays went differently, he would be a two time champion with the Jazz. If he hadn't of injured his knee, he may have won a championship with the Lakers.

I guess that's what happens when you come so close - it's feast or famine with the fans. You're either a hero or you have threads dedicated to you being exposed.

Malone led those Jazz teams with Stockton to the finals two straight years. That's more than a lot of the greats did. Karl Malone is always going to rank higher than Ewing, Robinson and Barkley

[Xiao Yao You]

Malone is underrated if anything. If a few plays went differently, he would be a two time champion with the Jazz. If he hadn't of injured his knee, he may have won a championship with the Lakers.

I guess that's what happens when you come so close - it's feast or famine with the fans. You're either a hero or you have threads dedicated to you being exposed.

Malone led those Jazz teams with Stockton to the finals two straight years. That's more than a lot of the greats did. Karl Malone is always going to rank higher than Ewing, Robinson and Barkley

If Kobe hadn't been a selfish prick and passed the ball to Shaq instead of throwing up brick after brick he'd have a ring.

Stockton and Malone only made two finals and won none. Huge failure by the Jazz.

[willds09]

If Kobe hadn't been a selfish prick and passed the ball to Shaq instead of throwing up brick after brick he'd have a ring.
.
dont blame it all on kobe :no:

[Raz]

Stockton and Malone only made two finals and won none. Huge failure by the Jazz.

Getting to the finals is a failure?

[Xiao Yao You]

Getting to the finals is a failure?

He and Stockton were together, healthy and at the top of their games for a very long time. Two finals losses=huge failure.

[mrhoopfan]

How about exposing John Stockton? The second finals against the Bulls, dude averaged 9 pts and 8.5 assist:roll:

[willds09]

karl marlone was pu55y for changin his number to 11 :lol

[PistolPete44]

How about exposing John Stockton? The second finals against the Bulls, dude averaged 9 pts and 8.5 assist:roll:
great insight:applause:

[Solid Snake]

Keep changing the subject kid because you know that you got exposed as some moron who can't comprehend correctly but if you do believe I am RocketsGreatness, feel free to check the IP address kid.


How do we check IP addresses?

[CakeorDeath]

How about exposing John Stockton? The second finals against the Bulls, dude averaged 9 pts and 8.5 assist:roll:

And he was 36 years old at the time. A 6 ft 1 in 180-pound 36 year old playing the endurance-laden position of PG in the NBA finals (100 or so games into the season) against one of the best teams of all time and averaging 9 and 9 is pretty impressive actually.

But way to expose him.

[Raz]

He and Stockton were together, healthy and at the top of their games for a very long time. Two finals losses=huge failure.

The same can be said for a large majority of NBA players then.

Getting to the finals twice is tough. Do you view Drexler's Blazers as a failure as well then?

[mrhoopfan]

And he was 36 years old at the time. A 6 ft 1 in 180-pound 36 year old playing the endurance-laden position of PG in the NBA finals (100 or so games into the season) against one of the best teams of all time and averaging 9 and 9 is pretty impressive actually.

But way to expose him.


LOL...but of course he gets a pass ( no pun intended). Malone is a year younger than him, nice try though:oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

The same can be said for a large majority of NBA players then.

Getting to the finals twice is tough. Do you view Drexler's Blazers as a failure as well then?

I don't believe there has ever been two players so good that joined the same team in back to years and played at that high of a level and never missed games for so long. Drexler didn't have another top player next to him. I thought Porter was on Stockton's level one year. He didn't do for an extended time at that level though.

Let's imagine Westbrook and Durant together and playing at superstar level for as long with two finals losses and nothing else. You think Brooks will have a job or they will be considered a great success?

[Raz]

I don't believe there has ever been two players so good that joined the same team in back to years and played at that high of a level and never missed games for so long. Drexler didn't have another top player next to him. I thought Porter was on Stockton's level one year. He didn't do for an extended time at that level though.

Drexler had much better teams overall.



Let's imagine Westbrook and Durant together and playing at superstar level for as long with two finals losses and nothing else. You think Brooks will have a job or they will be considered a great success?

No I wouldn't write off their careers and call them failures. Not every superstar can win, unless they go and team up like Wade, Bronze and Bosh Spice.

The NBA is a team sport. How about calling out Russell, Ostertag or Hornacek? Did you ever look at the Bulls roster top to bottom and then do the same with the Jazz? It's debatable that Malone is the 2nd best player in the series - after all, Pippen was a dominant player in both facets of the game. The team with the best individual player usually wins, the Jazz didn't have him, and they had just as many holes as the Bulls, but without the talent at the top to make up for it.

[Xiao Yao You]

Drexler had much better teams overall.

But superstars win.


No I wouldn't write off their careers and call them failures. Not every superstar can win, unless they go and team up like Wade, Bronze and Bosh Spice.

The NBA is a team sport. How about calling out Russell, Ostertag or Hornacek? Did you ever look at the Bulls roster top to bottom and then do the same with the Jazz? It's debatable that Malone is the 2nd best player in the series - after all, Pippen was a dominant player in both facets of the game. The team with the best individual player usually wins, the Jazz didn't have him, and they had just as many holes as the Bulls, but without the talent at the top to make up for it.

Which is why I said the Jazz failed. The Thunder fail if they don't get it done with the talent they have assembled. It's not easy to put that kind of talent together. You got to do everything you can to maximize your chances. The Jazz were happy with just making the playoffs.

Ostertag got offensive boards and blocked shots so unlike most Jazz fans I think he did his job because that's what he did. Sloan playing Collins over him was the problem. Pippen was the 4th best player in the series. Now we're back to MJ being the only reason the Jazz didn't win. That covers 6 years. What happened to the rest?

[Legends66NBA7]

Malone is underrated if anything.

In what aspect ?


If a few plays went differently, he would be a two time champion with the Jazz. If he hadn't of injured his knee, he may have won a championship with the Lakers.

Don't see it happening against those Bulls. Malone has a history of folding before in the playoffs (so much so, that there was talks about him leaving Utah), I don't see it changing against a player like Jordan and the defense that team had.

And I don't see what a title with the Lakers does for his legacy, really.


I guess that's what happens when you come so close - it's feast or famine with the fans. You're either a hero or you have threads dedicated to you being exposed.

Malone got exposed before in the playoffs both before and after the 97 and 98 Finals. He got exposed by many different teams and players.

[CakeorDeath]

LOL...but of course he gets a pass ( no pun intended). Malone is a year younger than him, nice try though:oldlol:

Not sure what you are getting at here; if you are suggesting that I'm willing to excuse Stockton but vilify Malone, you should check earlier in the thread when I defended Karl.

[Clifton]

Really? Karl Malone is listed as a top 15-20 player of all-time by pretty much everybody. Where do you think he ranks if he is the most overrated player of all-time? In the 30-40 range? Cause if so then you pretty much know nothing about basketball. I know Karl choked and had some subpar post-season play but for whatever reason everybody ignores his great post-season runs and games.

It annoys me that Karl gets disrespected like this especially when people only disrespect him because of the person he was, not the type of game he had. He was pretty much the prototypical PF.
Great players are expected to show up in important moments. Malone moved the ball well, scored a lot, and rebounded well. The fact that he could work so well with a great coach and a great PG and be the centerpiece of a great team is important - not all can. (That's a major thing that puts Duncan above any other PF in history - you could say Pop and his system made Duncan, but on the other hand Duncan was a guy who could be made by Pop.)

But you can't have a consistent record of poor performance in important moments over a long period of time. All Malone could do was score, really; his impact was not felt beyond that like a Duncan or a Garnett. He wasn't anchoring a defense. He didn't shut down the other guy's best player. He wasn't a guy you have to triple team in crunch time. He scored and rebounded... and if that's all you do, you have to do it in a big way in crunch time. That is what makes Kevin Durant is the real deal and a top player in the league. He doesn't have the extra-statistical impact of a Lebron but he shows up when it's important.

[Raz]

But superstars win.

What did David 'Mr. IBM award' Robinson win before Tim Duncan? David Robinson was considered one of the biggest superstars in the league. Robinson was a better player than both Stockton and Malone.

How about Charles Barkley? What did he win? He only got to the finals once, and he played with some stacked teams. KJ, Majerle, Ceballos, Ainge, etc in Phoenix. He played with Olajuwon, Drexler, Pippen, and Willis in Houston, and he played with Malone, Erving, Toney, and Cheeks in Philly, and he did nothing.

Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp? What's their excuse? How about Ewing, Oakley, Starks and the rest of the Knicks cronies? They had a deep team of talented defenders.




Which is why I said the Jazz failed. The Thunder fail if they don't get it done with the talent they have assembled. It's not easy to put that kind of talent together. You got to do everything you can to maximize your chances. The Jazz were happy with just making the playoffs.

That last line is utter bull shit. No team is just happy being in the playoffs, other than young teams making their first trip. NBA players are for the most part very competitive and proud. You think Karl Malone worked his tail off everyday in the gym to just be satisfied with making the playoffs? You think super competitive, dirty-ass, John Stockton was just happy to make the playoffs? You have to be kidding me.

You can say the Jazz failed to win a championship, but you can't say that Malone and Stockton failed overall. Only one team wins each year. The Jazz never really had the requisite depth to be contenders. If they had won any year, it should have been the 1998-99 season. They had just come off a 6 game finals with the Bulls, where they almost took them to 7 games. They lost to a deep Blazers team, coming up short due to their advanced age, and their lack of depth. Put the 97-98 Jazz team in the 98-99 season, and you have your NBA champion.



Ostertag got offensive boards and blocked shots so unlike most Jazz fans I think he did his job because that's what he did. Sloan playing Collins over him was the problem. Pippen was the 4th best player in the series. Now we're back to MJ being the only reason the Jazz didn't win. That covers 6 years. What happened to the rest?

You're really going to stand by Ostertag? The guy was renowned for making the wrong play at the wrong time. He was a great 6 fouls against Shaq, but against a team like the Bulls with no post presence and superior passing, he was wasted. You know how many minutes he played against the Bulls? 11 mpg.... and he only suited up for 5 out of the 6 games.

Pippen was played averagely to amazing over the first 5 games of that series - for the most part he was amazing, doing some serious damage on D, and shooting well for the most part. At the start of Game 6 he injured his back again, and was hobbled for the rest of that game in limited minutes. Pippen arguably played Malone to a stand still when factoring in defense and intangibles.

You need to watch games and re-learn your basketball history, because you're seriously out of your ****in' depth.

[Xiao Yao You]

What did David 'Mr. IBM award' Robinson win before Tim Duncan? David Robinson was considered one of the biggest superstars in the league. Robinson was a better player than both Stockton and Malone.

How about Charles Barkley? What did he win? He only got to the finals once, and he played with some stacked teams. KJ, Majerle, Ceballos, Ainge, etc in Phoenix. He played with Olajuwon, Drexler, Pippen, and Willis in Houston, and he played with Malone, Erving, Toney, and Cheeks in Philly, and he did nothing.

Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp? What's their excuse? How about Ewing, Oakley, Starks and the rest of the Knicks cronies? They had a deep team of talented defenders.

None of those had two guys that played at the level of Stockton and Malone for as long while being healthy the whole time.


No team is just happy being in the playoffs, other than young teams making their first trip. NBA players are for the most part very competitive and proud. You think Karl Malone worked his tail off everyday in the gym to just be satisfied with making the playoffs? You think super competitive, dirty-ass, John Stockton was just happy to make the playoffs? You have to be kidding me.

The organization was and still is.


You can say the Jazz failed to win a championship, but you can't say that Malone and Stockton failed overall.

The Jazz failed as I said.


You're really going to stand by Ostertag? The guy was renowned for making the wrong play at the wrong time. He was a great 6 fouls against Shaq, but against a team like the Bulls with no post presence and superior passing, he was wasted. You know how many minutes he played against the Bulls? 11 mpg.... and he only suited up for 5 out of the 6 games.

The brillance of Jerry at it's finest.

[Raz]

Sometimes there's just no educating the uneducated. I'm going to have to take your 4,000 + posts and your one dot of rep and decide not to try and educate you anymore.

It seems as though you are unable to come up with any sort of argument other than Malone and Stockton failed. Like getting to the finals is not an achievement in itself.

The Jazz have been one of the best organizations for the last 30 years. They work hard to have a solid team, and they are fully committed to winning. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

[Xiao Yao You]

Sometimes there's just no educating the uneducated. I'm going to have to take your 4,000 + posts and your one dot of rep and decide not to try and educate you anymore.

It seems as though you are unable to come up with any sort of argument other than Malone and Stockton failed. Like getting to the finals is not an achievement in itself.

The Jazz have been one of the best organizations for the last 30 years. They work hard to have a solid team, and they are fully committed to winning. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

More like you need some help with your reading comprehension. I said the Jazz failed many times now. They blew a once in a lifetime opportunity after getting two all-time greats handed to them in back to back drafts. Wait til next year. Next year eventually never comes. You strike while the iron is hot and the failed to do so. If making the playoffs is your idea of success than yes they have been very successful. I'd say they've mostly underachieved though. There's a reason Deron wasn't happy. They don't do what it takes to go to the next level.

[joeyjoejoe]

Yeah they failed to get a chip against mj and the bulls one of the best teams ever, many players also failed to get a chip king, gervin, baylor, wilkins, ewing, barkley does that mean they sucked no they still alltime greats