This is why Kobe Bryant is closer to a top 5 player all time

[kennethgriffin]

Even if you erace his 1st 8 seasons and 1st 8 playoffs with shaq

minus 3 championships
minus the all nba awards
minus the all defensive awards
minus the 30,40,50 point games
minus the all-star mvp
minus the nba records


kobe bryant from 2005 to 2012 still has a better career than #9 all time ranked hakeem Olajuwon

some even rank hakeem higher


hakeem in his entire life:

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold
9 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
0 third place mvp


kobe bryant from 2005-2012

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 allstar mvps
7 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold ( about to be 2 )
12 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
4 third place mvp
more 40,50,60,80 point games
better average
better playoff average



so even if kobe bryant cut 8 out of his 16 years... EXACTLY HALF of his career ( which were VERRY successfull... )

kobe still comes out on top and is easly a top 10 all time player and above hakeem olajuwon

:biggums:

[asdf1990]

nobody in their right minds would chose kobe over hakeem when building a new team. Kobe needs a stacked team to win while hakeem doesn't.

[kennethgriffin]

nobody in their right minds would chose kobe over hakeem when building a new team. Kobe needs a stacked team to win while hakeem doesn't.

that has absolutely nothing to do with what a player has done and how good they are..

has everything to do with importance of position and centers being a must in an all time draft because the legendary centers compared to the average center is a faaaar bigger gap than that of a legendary guard compared to an average guard... making it impossible to draft an average center and have a chance against shaq/wilt/kareem/hakeem

take your loop hole arguments somewhere else bum

i'm too smart for that crap

[Punpun]

This is why Kobe is in the discussion to begin with son.

[Heavincent]

Kobe needs a stacked team to win

Where were you in 09 and 10? Those teams were not stacked.

[DuMa]

Hakeem isn't a top 5 all time. dumb thread.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

but Hakeem had a SWEET baseline shake turn-around fade away jumper from 15 feet.

and Hakeem had a MUCH better nickname...Hakeem the Dream vs. Black Mamba.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe needs a stacked team to win while hakeem doesn't.
How do you define "winning"? If you mean winning the championship, then Hakeem absolutely needed a powerful team, just like everyone else.

[kennethgriffin]

Hakeem isn't a top 5 all time. dumb thread.


i didnt say hakeem was top 5 all time... hakeem is regularly ranked #9-10

i said... how can a guy with twice the career of a top 9 player all time be ranked 10th on some peoples list

if a guy has twice the career of a top 9 player all time... chances are hes closer to #5 than #10

[Real Men Wear Green]

Does anyone rank Olajuwon top 5 all time? You have to show why he's had a better career than a guy like MJ (HAHA), Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird...that's the level you should be discussing.

[PistolPete44]

Another kobrick stan...
Kobrick will not hit top 7 of all time unless he won two less rings

[Punpun]

That's not that guy point though.

[Umad101]

Agreed

[AK47DR91]

The 2005-present year Kobe still isn't ahead of Shaq or Duncan, so how can he be considered Top 5?

Kobe is in the bottom Top 10, along with Hakeem. You Kobe stans make it like it's an insult or something to put Kobe there.

[Odinn]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8520/jordanie8.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

Another kobrick stan...
Kobrick will not hit top 7 of all time unless he won two less rings


:biggums:

[Real Men Wear Green]

i didnt say hakeem was top 5 all time... hakeem is regularly ranked #9-10

i said... how can a guy with twice the career of a top 9 player all time be ranked 10th on some peoples list

if a guy has twice the career of a top 9 player all time... chances are hes closer to #5 than #10
He doesn't have twice the career. He has an edge in terms of resume because of all the Championships he won (three with Shaq) but Olajuwon was dominant on both ends of the floor and the supporting cast he lead to a Championship in his first title run had no second star. Bryant isn't leading a team with no second star to a championship at any point in his career.

[kennethgriffin]

The 2005-present year Kobe still isn't ahead of Shaq or Duncan, so how can he be considered Top 5?

Kobe is in the bottom Top 10, along with Hakeem. You Kobe stans make it like it's an insult or something to put Kobe there.


i'm not saying "half" a kobe is better than shaq and duncan

i'm saying it is better than hakeem though

full 16 year kobe >>>>>> shaq and duncan easly... he passed them along with bird in 2010


lol wtf why so many people in this thread with reading problems :hammerhead:

[kennethgriffin]

He doesn't have twice the career. He has an edge in terms of resume because of all the Championships he won (three with Shaq) but Olajuwon was dominant on both ends of the floor and the supporting cast he lead to a Championship in his first title run had no second star. Bryant isn't leading a team with no second star to a championship at any point in his career.


i'm sorry but is HALF of kobes career clearly beats hakeems ENTIRE career


then yes he has TWICE the career

lol@ adding 3 more titles with averages of
23/5/5
29/5/5
27/5/5
in the playoffs and all nba teams and not thinking that makes a huge impact seeing as without them he already beats hakeem LOL

[LA_Showtime]

Impact, baby. Kobe has and never will impact a game like a top ten player should. More often then not the Lakers have won because of their collective talents, not because Kobe raised his game to a legendary level. In fact you could argue the Lakers won one championship DESPITE Kobe. The only time I felt like I was watching a legitimate top ten player was in 2008, but that run ended with Boston raping LA in game six.

[AK47DR91]

Impact, baby. Kobe has and never will impact a game like a top ten player should. More often then not the Lakers have won because of their collective talents, not because Kobe raised his game to a legendary level. In fact you could argue the Lakers won one championship DESPITE Kobe. The only time I felt like I was watching a legitimate top ten player was in 2008, but that run ended with Boston raping LA in game six.
You know what's funny about this statement is that Kobe was a bigger impact player when he was playing behind Shaq than he is during the past 5 seasons.

[Real Men Wear Green]

i'm sorry but is HALF of kobes career clearly beats hakeems ENTIRE careerThat's an idiotic thing to say. Does Kobe have evena third of Olajuwon's rebounds and blocks? "Half" his career? No one is buying that bs.

[RaininTwos]

so griffinmoney is back?:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[martycrane]

its amazin how ppl dont actually compare a player wit how their skills impact the game.

oh i kno why, its cuz kobe would barely be top 20 if we used that criteria. hed be well below duncan, kg, dream etc and would also be behind barkley, nash, stockton, guys who r elite in more than 1 thing besides 'difficult shot o' meter' (chucking) an most of who play D much better than kobe ever did.

kobe stans should thank whatev they believe in that kobe played for the lakers cuz if he played for portland or sacramento or new orleans hed be rank somewher in between latrell sprewel n allen iverson.

luckily kupchak calls the shots n buss writes the checks, the fans hav there hero. the selfish guy wanna be traded, quit after mavs series, adjusted stats show he overrated, dont take charges, got shaq traded, phil jackson hate him, alienated pau, most overrated player all time.

kobe bryant.

[DaHeezy]

i'm not saying "half" a kobe is better than shaq and duncan

i'm saying it is better than hakeem though

full 16 year kobe >>>>>> shaq and duncan easly... he passed them along with bird in 2010


lol wtf why so many people in this thread with reading problems :hammerhead:


Once you say "Kobe" it puts people in a mental state of delerium in whach all attempts to promote Kobe will be thwarted

[kennethgriffin]

Impact, baby. Kobe has and never will impact a game like a top ten player should. More often then not the Lakers have won because of their collective talents, not because Kobe raised his game to a legendary level. In fact you could argue the Lakers won one championship DESPITE Kobe. The only time I felt like I was watching a legitimate top ten player was in 2008, but that run ended with Boston raping LA in game six.

didnt kobe average like 33/9/5 in his 2009 nba finals run

near 30ppg/5reb/5ast for 4 of his 5 titles

half a playoff away from all time leading playoff scorer

what exactly is legendary impact

define it

because i remember kobe winning back to back titles with career/stat wise the 5th or 6th worst second option in championship team history ( pau gasol ... who is barely top 100 all time with his 2 third team awards and a few allstar appearences )

90% of nba champion lead dogs have a better wing man

bynum averaged 6ppg for his 2 championships

odom never made an allstar game

kobes level of play from 2006 till 2010 was one of the highest skill levels, highest footwork ability, best 2 way players we have ever seen

you have got to be kidding me man...

not legendary?

lol

:biggums:

this forum has idiots like this?

[martycrane]

didnt kobe average like 33/9/5 in his 2009 nba finals run

near 30ppg/5reb/5ast for 4 of his 5 titles

half a playoff away from all time leading playoff scorer

what exactly is legendary impact

define it

because i remember kobe winning back to back titles with career/stat wise the 5th or 6th worst second option in championship team history ( pau gasol ... who is barely top 100 all time with his 2 third team awards and a few allstar appearences )

90% of nba champion lead dogs have a better wing man

bynum averaged 6ppg for his 2 championships

odom never made an allstar game

kobes level of play from 2006 till 2010 was one of the highest skill levels, highest footwork ability, best 2 way players we have ever seen

you have got to be kidding me man...

not legendary?

lol

:biggums:

this forum has idiots like this?

u cherry pickn stats for kobe and purposely makin the team he had look worse.

what r his fg%? how come it was always always ariza or artest guardin durant or pierce? how come he kept havin to be bailed out of bricks on last minute hots n get his ass saved by horry, fisher, artest, pau? never seen a player throw up so many hero bricks desperate to seize the glory instead of make sure to win in the playoffs. remember he bricked a buzzer beater against dallas n then he quit n they got swept.

u r a diehard loyal fan of by far the most overated player in teh history of the L. its obvious why man, u aint got no knowledge u just wanna be attached wit a dude so ur makin him legendary. ur the same as a chick who likes justin bieb. she dont kno music she just in luv. u dont kno ball u just in luv b

[kennethgriffin]

u cherry pickn stats for kobe and purposely makin the team he had look worse.

what r his fg%? how come it was always always ariza or artest guardin durant or pierce? how come he kept havin to be bailed out of bricks on last minute hots n get his ass saved by horry, fisher, artest, pau? never seen a player throw up so many hero bricks desperate to seize the glory instead of make sure to win in the playoffs. remember he bricked a buzzer beater against dallas n then he quit n they got swept.

u r a diehard loyal fan of by far the most overated player in teh history of the L. its obvious why man, u aint got no knowledge u just wanna be attached wit a dude so ur makin him legendary. ur the same as a chick who likes justin bieb. she dont kno music she just in luv. u dont kno ball u just in luv b

every nba championship team has help

kobe history wise had one of the lowest rated rosters in all time title teams

look at past champions... just because fisher hit a big shot against boston and okc doesnt make up for the fact that hes actually a pretty poor pg compared to most all time. yes hes clutch... but kobe still has to make him look good for most of the game ... hes lived and made a career off of kobe double teams

and cherry picking what? its the main stat... bynum had little to do with those 2 titles... 6ppg? common

as for fg%... kobes a shooting guard. he takes allot of threes... most other great sg's all time that take allot of threes shoot around 45%

ray allen is the best shooter ever... he shot 45%

rick barry is one of the best shooters ever... he shot 43%


fact is people ignore kobes impact with drawing extra defenders and being the 3rd last man to touch the ball

there are no hockey assists in the nba... and if there were kobe would average a hell of allot more than 5apg

the lakers almost always ran a reactionary offense without a pg

so it was rarely kobe running around picks and setting up others to stat pad... it was almost always kobe isolating and drawing for a swing pass or a dump in to give someone else an assist off of his greatness

smart basketball minds understand this... and appreciate kobes play making ability..

[fsvr54]

Kobe is the most overrated player of all time. There are many players who can do what he does, they just don't have the audacity to shoot so many times.

[martycrane]

every nba championship team has help

kobe history wise had one of the lowest rated rosters in all time title teams

look at past champions... just because fisher hit a big shot against boston and okc doesnt make up for the fact that hes actually a pretty poor pg compared to most all time. yes hes clutch... but kobe still has to make him look good for most of the game ... hes lived and made a career off of kobe double teams

and cherry picking what? its the main stat... bynum had little to do with those 2 titles... 6ppg? common

as for fg%... kobes a shooting guard. he takes allot of threes... most other great sg's all time that take allot of threes shoot around 45%

ray allen is the best shooter ever... he shot 45%

rick barry is one of the best shooters ever... he shot 43%


fact is people ignore kobes impact with drawing extra defenders and being the 3rd last man to touch the ball

there are no hockey assists in the nba... and if there were kobe would average a hell of allot more than 5apg

the lakers almost always ran a reactionary offense without a pg

so it was rarely kobe running around picks and setting up others to stat pad... it was almost always kobe isolating and drawing for a swing pass or a dump in to give someone else an assist off of his greatness

smart basketball minds understand this... and appreciate kobes play making ability..


so between shaq n pau, the prime yrs of his career, he missed the playoffs n got bounced 1st round twice.

where was his legendary greatness? shaq got a team to a finals witout loaded roster so did duncan, bron, howard. nash n chris paul, others even drove teams to at least 1st round wins wit rosters that had no biz in the playoffs. kobe is a 1 on 1 player that only dumb fans think has an impact like hakeem, just cuz he shoot 30 times a game n thats the only part u can comprende.

go watch tapes from the championships u will see magic sayin it on espn, u see barkley n kenny say it on tnt, in every series but the phx ones they kept sayin why dont the lakes go inside more, thats where the advantige is but kobe had to force shots tryna be playoff hero, they win more easily if he shoots less. dont matter about individ. '2nd banana' cuz tht stuff is for dummi fans. they had a stacked frotcourt pau was really ballin.


kobe bryant has way less impact on a game than any top 20 player. he is lucky he played for lakers organization, and his game is marketable to ppl who dont know ball like justin bieb is marktable to peep who dont know music. thts all it is. both r the most overrated in their fields prob ever when u count fan obsessio

[kennethgriffin]

so between shaq n pau, the prime yrs of his career, he missed the playoffs n got bounced 1st round twice.

where was his legendary greatness? shaq got a team to a finals witout loaded roster so did duncan, bron, howard. nash n chris paul, others even drove teams to at least 1st round wins wit rosters that had no biz in the playoffs. kobe is a 1 on 1 player that only dumb fans think has an impact like hakeem, just cuz he shoot 30 times a game n thats the only part u can comprende.

go watch tapes from the championships u will see magic sayin it on espn, u see barkley n kenny say it on tnt, in every series but the phx ones they kept sayin why dont the lakes go inside more, thats where the advantige is but kobe had to force shots tryna be playoff hero, they win more easily if he shoots less. dont matter about individ. '2nd banana' cuz tht stuff is for dummi fans. they had a stacked frotcourt pau was really ballin.


kobe bryant has way less impact on a game than any top 20 player. he is lucky he played for lakers organization, and his game is marketable to ppl who dont know ball like justin bieb is marktable to peep who dont know music. thts all it is. both r the most overrated in their fields prob ever when u count fan obsessio

since when is a players prime only 2-3 years

people should know kobe wouldnt choose to average 35ppg if he was on a contending team. but at the time of his 2008 and 2009 seasons... he could verry well have averaged that amount.. he dialed back his average to a jordan like 28-30ppg... jordans best stats came before his prime aswell... people average more when they have less help

kobes best years were 2006,2007,2008,2009,2010


during that 5 year span

5 time first team all nba
5 time first team all defense
3 straight nba finals
2 straight nba championships
2 straight finals mvps
1 regular season mvp
3 allstar game mvps
28/6/5 regular season average
30/6/5 playoff average
81 point career high
a bunch of 60 point games
a gold medal as the championship game mvp


this is kobes prime

[talkingconch]

nobody in their right minds would chose kobe over hakeem when building a new team. Kobe needs a stacked team to win while hakeem doesn't.
Lebron stans??? WHERE ARE U?? This guy is basically calling ur guy Lebron out.

[martycrane]

since when is a players prime only 2-3 years

people should know kobe wouldnt choose to average 35ppg if he was on a contending team. but at the time of his 2008 and 2009 seasons... he could verry well have averaged that amount.. he dialed back his average to a jordan like 28-30ppg... jordans best stats came before his prime aswell... people average more when they have less help

kobes best years were 2006,2007,2008,2009,2010


during that 5 year span

5 time first team all nba
5 time first team all defense
3 straight nba finals
2 straight nba championships
2 straight finals mvps
1 regular season mvp
3 allstar game mvps
28/6/5 regular season average
30/6/5 playoff average
81 point career high
a bunch of 60 point games
a gold medal as the championship game mvp


this is kobes prime


ok first team all D are 100% bogus n u do kno it tho u not gonna admit it. kobe never been an elite defender. NEVER EVER. elite wing defender is ron artest, bruce bowen, shane battier, lebron james, heck shawn marion. u kno them writers that vote that shit r just lazy and write in the biggest stars. jordan made all d team so writers wanna give kobe all d team. never an elite defender. u think otherwise tell me examples. who did he shut down. what r his defense skills. kobe said flat out he dont take charges. if he not willin to do that what else he not willin to do on defense? man this is objective stuff i think kobes a cool dude but im gonna be real bout his game. why cant u do the same? what wit the man love?

'81 point high, bunch of 60 pt games' lol so what jamal crawford got stats like dat so does tracy mcgrady. kobe is always tryna stat pad point totals. how bout all the times kobe completely shoot his own team OUT the game??? u got any stats for that? cuz it happens more often than he scores 50 points.

why dont u compare kobe n hakeem by talkin bout their skills in a actual game? ur just cherry pickin cuz u love dude, if ur a real ball fan why dont u try n be smart n objective? talk about kobe vs hakeem in their ability n what they can do to help get wins (wit their own game, not how many wins their franchises help them get). u dont wanna do that cuz every1 kno hakeem is better

[kennethgriffin]

i just saw the comment on "hakeem didnt need a great team"

well kobe didnt need the leagues best player to be retired

imagine if kobe retired in 2009 and came back with 10 games left in 2010

dwight howard may verry well be an nba champion right now like hakeem and be finals mvp and an all time great player

same story different people...

[kennethgriffin]

ok first team all D are 100% bogus n u do kno it tho u not gonna admit it. kobe never been an elite defender. NEVER EVER. elite wing defender is ron artest, bruce bowen, shane battier, lebron james, heck shawn marion. u kno them writers that vote that shit r just lazy and write in the biggest stars. jordan made all d team so writers wanna give kobe all d team. never an elite defender. u think otherwise tell me examples. who did he shut down. what r his defense skills. kobe said flat out he dont take charges. if he not willin to do that what else he not willin to do on defense? man this is objective stuff i think kobes a cool dude but im gonna be real bout his game. why cant u do the same? what wit the man love?

'81 point high, bunch of 60 pt games' lol so what jamal crawford got stats like dat so does tracy mcgrady. kobe is always tryna stat pad point totals. how bout all the times kobe completely shoot his own team OUT the game??? u got any stats for that? cuz it happens more often than he scores 50 points.

why dont u compare kobe n hakeem by talkin bout their skills in a actual game? ur just cherry pickin cuz u love dude, if ur a real ball fan why dont u try n be smart n objective? talk about kobe vs hakeem in their ability n what they can do to help get wins (wit their own game, not how many wins their franchises help them get). u dont wanna do that cuz every1 kno hakeem is better


:roll:

lets just wipe out kobes 1st 3 rings... theyre bogus

and lets wipe out his all defensive teams... theyre bogus too

and his points per game dont count because he shot more... BOGUS


allstar mvps? exibition regardless of the fact that everyone wants to take home the trophy and win at the end..

yup ... everything on kobes side is bogus

hakeem wins vs half kobe.... YAY

:applause:

[martycrane]

i just saw the comment on "hakeem didnt need a great team"

well kobe didnt need the leagues best player to be retired

imagine if kobe retired in 2009 and came back with 10 games left in 2010

dwight howard may verry well be an nba champion right now like hakeem and be finals mvp and an all time great player

same story different people...


well i guess ur just gonna stay convinsed. u can keep believin what u want for whatevr strange reasons u have to need to believe it. hopefuly ppl realizae u not tryna be objectives n maybe every1 will just let it drop. really dont matter anyway.

[martycrane]

:roll:

lets just wipe out kobes 1st 3 rings... theyre bogus

and lets wipe out his all defensive teams... theyre bogus too

and his points per game dont count because he shot more... BOGUS


allstar mvps? exibition regardless of the fact that everyone wants to take home the trophy and win at the end..

yup ... everything on kobes side is bogus

hakeem wins vs half kobe.... YAY

:applause:


hakeem olajuwon was a much more valuable basketball player than kobe bryant. thats the bottom line fact at the end of the day. so this thread is now over.

[kennethgriffin]

hakeem olajuwon was a much more valuable basketball player than kobe bryant. thats the bottom line fact at the end of the day. so this thread is now over.

i value 5 rings more than 2 with the leagues best player retired or in sh*t condition at the tale end of a season

honestly you people are crazy... a legendary tall guard is way more valuable because he is a ball handler, a play maker, a scorer and a rebounder... not to mention can guard 3 positions

hakeem cant bring the ball up the court and create offense... hes a post player. he was one of the most skilled post players. but hes still a post player

kobe did more with less of a physical adantage... he is no doubt higher than hakeem all time

dont worry though i know all about ISH and its insanely high overrating of hakeem... you guys absolutely jump on him like your a horny mistress riding a black meaty pogo stick

you're obsession over him compared to other forums is sickening

get over yourselves

buncha kenny smiths in here


/facepalm

[joeysms55]

If Kobe would have played in the era where magic, bird, and jordan are playing against them. Kobe probably don't have any rings

[kennethgriffin]

If Kobe would have played in the era where magic, bird, and jordan are playing against them. Kobe probably don't have any rings


if jordan, magic or bird jumped on 3 different random teams in this era... they probably dont take any rings away from the legendary lakers or spurs either

[joeysms55]

if jordan, magic or bird jumped on 3 different random teams in this era... they probably dont take any rings away from the legendary lakers or spurs either


Why random teams and not contending teams with the caliber of Lakers and Spurs? It's not like Kobe is in a random team. He got a top 2 center, in the top 5 Pf, one of the best defensive SF in this era, and Odom (6th man of the year) from last year

your getting too far bro

P.S the legendary lakers are the showtime lakers. This Lakers in this era is not even close to that

[NumberSix]

hakeem in his entire life:

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold
9 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
0 third place mvp


kobe bryant from 2005-2012

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 allstar mvps
7 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold ( about to be 2 )
12 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
4 third place mvp
more 40,50,60,80 point games
better average
better playoff average
Could have sworn that Hakeem won DPOY's. I'm sure you just omitted that by accident though.

[kennethgriffin]

Why random teams and not contending teams with the caliber of Lakers and Spurs? It's not like Kobe is in a random team. He got a top 2 center, in the top 5 Pf, one of the best defensive SF in this era, and Odom (6th man of the year) from last year

your getting too far bro

P.S the legendary lakers are the showtime lakers. This Lakers in this era is not even close to that

alright... your opinion is kobes 1st three peat lakers and last 2 peat lakers wouldnt be better than a single title team in 1980,1981,1982,1983,1984,1985,1986,1987,1988,1989, 1990,1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998


sure...

:facepalm


**** ISH

[kennethgriffin]

Could have sworn that Hakeem won DPOY's. I'm sure you just omitted that by accident though.

dpoty is mainly a big mans award because 99% of the time its won with a combination of rebounds/blocks and team defensive rating

so yea... its kind of useless in a comparison between a guard and a center

how many non bigmen have won dpoty? 3-4? or something?

[NumberSix]

dpoty is mainly a big mans award because 99% of the time its won with a combination of rebounds/blocks and team defensive rating

so yea... its kind of useless in a comparison between a guard and a center

how many non bigmen have won dpoty? 3-4? or something?
Yeah, it's almost as if, being tall/big is advantageous in basketball.

[3peated]

uhmmm hakeem has robert horry, the most clutch player in the NBA. he had the jet, he had ugly ass sam cassell, please don't act like he did it with complete scrubs, in his era the norm was 1 superstar, and a bunch of role players, he didn't do anything extraordinary like carry a team of no bodies to the finals like iverson did.

quit hating on kobe, regardless of if you like the guy, and he is the most talented guard to play the game since jordan.

[joeysms55]

alright... your opinion is kobes 1st three peat lakers and last 2 peat lakers wouldnt be better than a single title team in 1980,1981,1982,1983,1984,1985,1986,1987,1988,1989, 1990,1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998


sure...

:facepalm


**** ISH



Yeah I'm sure. Kareem, Worthy, Magic... Are you kidding me? Im talking about the Championship lakers team during the showtime era. your acting $tupid. Its useless to argue with stans anyways. At the end of the day Kobe is NOT a top 5 player

[joeysms55]

uhmmm hakeem has robert horry, the most clutch player in the NBA. he had the jet, he had ugly ass sam cassell, please don't act like he did it with complete scrubs, in his era the norm was 1 superstar, and a bunch of role players, he didn't do anything extraordinary like carry a team of no bodies to the finals like iverson did.

quit hating on kobe, regardless of if you like the guy, and he is the most talented guard to play the game since jordan.


I'm not hating on kobe but he may or he may not be the guard who is the most talented after jordan. Theres arguments for iverson and carter. They're just not successful

[kennethgriffin]

Yeah I'm sure. Kareem, Worthy, Magic... Are you kidding me? Im talking about the Championship lakers team during the showtime era. your acting $tupid. Its useless to argue with stans anyways. At the end of the day Kobe is NOT a top 5 player

so you're basically saying kobe won his 5 with allot less help than kareem and magic had for theirs

ok

[Smoke117]

Neither is top 5 all time, but if on was closer it would definitely be Hakeem. You replace a 1994 Hakeem with Kobe on that 2006 Lakers team and he could lead that team to 50+ wins.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Whoever says either of these people is top 5 is insane. Kobe being better than a borderline top 10 player doesn't vault him into the top 5 what kind of retard math is that? Give me a case for him being better than MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, Bird or whoever else you might choose to put in your top 5. You can't.

[kennethgriffin]

Neither is top 5 all time, but if on was closer it would definitely be Hakeem. You replace a 1994 Hakeem with Kobe on that 2006 Lakers team and he could lead that team to 50+ wins.


Whoever says either of these people is top 5 is insane. Kobe being better than a borderline top 10 player doesn't vault him into the top 5 what kind of retard math is that? Give me a case for him being better than MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, Bird or whoever else you might choose to put in your top 5. You can't.

another 2 idiots who cant read

i never said hakeem was top 5

i never said kobe was top 5

i said kobe is closer to top 5 than top 10

meaning he's more around 6th-7th than 9th or 10th

because kobe with HALF a career still outdoes hakeem who is top 10

[Linspired]

hakeem had much better peak, much more efficient, and played in a much tougher era.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Another kobrick stan...
Kobrick will not hit top 7 of all time unless he won two less rings
Kobe is #7 already.

[KG215]

another 2 idiots who cant read

i never said hakeem was top 5

i never said kobe was top 5

i said kobe is closer to top 5 than top 10

meaning he's more around 6th-7th than 9th or 10th

because kobe with HALF a career still outdoes hakeem who is top 10

Ok, make a case for why he's better than Shaq and Duncan who most people have at #7 and #8. We'll wait.

[Cali Syndicate]

so you're basically saying kobe won his 5 with allot less help than kareem and magic had for theirs

ok

Showtime Lakers played teams equally as stacked as them in the Finals.

Kobe and his squad matched up with the 09' Magic? Tell me how stacked that team was again? The best big man in the game held to a lowly 15ppg on weak %'s. Might want to give the Lakers front court a little more credit here.

Kobe has the 2010 Celtics series but obviously that 6/24 game 7 with Perkins out and Gasol grabbing more offensive rebounds than the entire Celtics team will always follow him around.

[fpliii]

another 2 idiots who cant read

i never said hakeem was top 5

i never said kobe was top 5

i said kobe is closer to top 5 than top 10

meaning he's more around 6th-7th than 9th or 10th

because kobe with HALF a career still outdoes hakeem who is top 10

what's good griff

[Da_Realist]

u cherry pickn stats for kobe and purposely makin the team he had look worse.

what r his fg%? how come it was always always ariza or artest guardin durant or pierce? how come he kept havin to be bailed out of bricks on last minute hots n get his ass saved by horry, fisher, artest, pau? never seen a player throw up so many hero bricks desperate to seize the glory instead of make sure to win in the playoffs. remember he bricked a buzzer beater against dallas n then he quit n they got swept.

u r a diehard loyal fan of by far the most overated player in teh history of the L. its obvious why man, u aint got no knowledge u just wanna be attached wit a dude so ur makin him legendary. ur the same as a chick who likes justin bieb. she dont kno music she just in luv. u dont kno ball u just in luv b

:applause: :oldlol: :applause:

[The Iron Fist]

Showtime Lakers played teams equally as stacked as them in the Finals.

Kobe and his squad matched up with the 09' Magic? Tell me how stacked that team was again? The best big man in the game held to a lowly 15ppg on weak %'s. Might want to give the Lakers front court a little more credit here.

Kobe has the 2010 Celtics series but obviously that 6/24 game 7 with Perkins out and Gasol grabbing more offensive rebounds than the entire Celtics team will always follow him around.
Not really, but a fifth ring and 2nd fmvp in a row will.


btw, Kenneth just owned you all.

[swag2011]

It's no use, you have to realize Kobe gets the most hate on the site. Everything he has accomplished is downplayed or discredited, while everyone else's accomplishments are hyped up. The haters on here will have you believing they won everything IN SPITE of Kobe.

The double standards against Kobe are so funny. They are only used against him and not any one else. It's cool though, the thought of Kobe wining a 6th ring is scaring them.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I'm not hating on kobe but he may or he may not be the guard who is the most talented after jordan. Theres arguments for iverson and carter. They're just not successful
:roll:

[The Iron Fist]

Ok, make a case for why he's better than Shaq and Duncan who most people have at #7 and #8. We'll wait.
Shaq didn't have a finals win until Kobe came along, then, when it was said Kobe would never win without Shaq,

he leads his team to three straight finals, mind you, without Shaq, and wins to finals MVPs in the process.


Head to head, he owns Duncan, has more rings, and has many more memorable games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Showtime Lakers played teams equally as stacked as them in the Finals.

Kobe and his squad matched up with the 09' Magic? Tell me how stacked that team was again? The best big man in the game held to a lowly 15ppg on weak %'s. Might want to give the Lakers front court a little more credit here.

Kobe has the 2010 Celtics series but obviously that 6/24 game 7 with Perkins out and Gasol grabbing more offensive rebounds than the entire Celtics team will always follow him around.
What about Game 5? Game 4?

[The Iron Fist]

What about Game 5? Game 4?
Those don't count. As a matter of fact, none of Kobes career counts.

[Cali Syndicate]

It's no use, you have to realize Kobe gets the most hate on the site. Everything he has accomplished is downplayed or discredited, while everyone else's accomplishments are hyped up. The haters on here will have you believing they won everything IN SPITE of Kobe.

The double standards against Kobe are so funny. They are only used against him and not any one else. It's cool though, the thought of Kobe wining a 6th ring is scaring them.

Just like how Kobe's fans discredit his teammates, is that the double-standard you're talking about? And yeah I'm sure having Phil in his corner played little to no part in anything.

[LakersReign]

It's no use, you have to realize Kobe gets the most hate on the site. Everything he has accomplished is downplayed or discredited, while everyone else's accomplishments are hyped up. The haters on here will have you believing they won everything IN SPITE of Kobe.

The double standards against Kobe are so funny. They are only used against him and not any one else. It's cool though, the thought of Kobe wining a 6th ring is scaring them.

Just love it how they keep trying to discredit Kobe REAL titles, while hyping up Lebron's FUTURE/HYPERTHETICAL/IMAGINARY ones. Keeping in mind they all took the 32dayz math class and now think 1 + 7 more that he hasn't won yet > 5:roll:

[The Iron Fist]

Just like how Kobe's fans discredit his teammates, is that the double-standard you're talking about? And yeah I'm sure having Phil in his corner played little to no part in anything.
Or, like how people overrate Kobes teammates, "After Shaq left, he floundered until he got a dominant big man again".

Pau Gasol is far from dominant. Pre Kobe, he has zero playoff wins. Pau, however, is a very good offensive player. Bynum, was virtually non existent for the three title runs and when the going gets real tough, he checks out mentally. Odom, is one of the most inconsistent players in league history. He will follow a 20 and 10 game, with 4 and 5.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Or, like how people overrate Kobes teammates, "After Shaq left, he floundered until he got a dominant big man again".

Pau Gasol is far from dominant. Pre Kobe, he has zero playoff wins. Pau, however, is a very good offensive player. Bynum, was virtually non existent for the three title runs and when the going gets real tough, he checks out mentally. Odom, is one of the most inconsistent players in league history. He will follow a 20 and 10 game, with 4 and 5.
They always say "dominant" big men.
Makes me laugh everytime. Pau is a great player but he is not dominant. And Bynum averaged 6/4 and 9/7, not even close to dominant. So where are these "dominant" big men that Kobe won with other than Shaq?

[NumberSix]

Shaq didn't have a finals win until Kobe came along
Kobe barely existed for Shaq's first championship. How fcuking old were you in 2000? :confusedshrug:

[Cali Syndicate]

Or, like how people overrate Kobes teammates, "After Shaq left, he floundered until he got a dominant big man again".

Pau Gasol is far from dominant. Pre Kobe, he has zero playoff wins. Pau, however, is a very good offensive player. Bynum, was virtually non existent for the three title runs and when the going gets real tough, he checks out mentally. Odom, is one of the most inconsistent players in league history. He will follow a 20 and 10 game, with 4 and 5.

Pau did a great job on a "dominate" center in Dwight in the 09 finals. Dominate or not, resorting to calling him "Ga-soft" demeans his abilities in a big way. And Odom, while inconsistent as he may be, is as versatile a big man as there is. Ariza played huge in 09 for you guys as well but obviously he's nothing but a 11ppg player right?

[KG215]

Shaq didn't have a finals win until Kobe came along, then, when it was said Kobe would never win without Shaq.

Shaq didn't have a second option good enough to win a title until Kobe emerged. Before that, in Orlando, his teams were good enough, but Shaq was still fairly young and not quite ready to lead a team to a championship. Shaq was the main reason for those three championships. Kobe was one hell of a second option but Shaq peaked during that 3-peat run, and was the main for those championships.


he leads his team to three straight finals, mind you, without Shaq, and wins to finals MVPs in the process.

He did, but it's not like Pau Gasol was chopped liver during that stretch. Obviously he was far from peak Shaq but, in that three year run he was arguably the second best frontcourt player in the NBA and, at the very least, the best offensive big in the game. It was a weaker era so Kobe, who was now at or close to his peak, didn't need Shaq. The West wasn't nearly as good as it was in the early 2000s, and the East was basically Boston, LeBron, and Dwight. The one time he played Boston when they were healthy, he lost. The Celtics were the only team at the time as good as the Lakers on paper.

In 2009 he played probably the third best team in the East that year after a healthy Celtics squad and the Cavs. I know Orlando beat the Cavs, but it was mostly due to all of their shooters getting insanely hot at the right time, and they rode that to the Finals. The Lakers would've beat the Cavs, too, but that was LeBron at or close to his peak, so I think they would've given the Lakers a tougher series. And in 2010 who knows what happens in Game 7 if Perkins plays. Kobe didn't need a "stacked" team or high-end HOFer to win two more titles in those years. With prime Kobe and prime Gasol, and a solid supporting cast, the Lakers were, at worst, the second most talented and second best team in the NBA. The only team that could threaten them were the Celtics and they were only healthy once.


Head to head, he owns Duncan, has more rings, and has many more memorable games.

So more memorable games = better player? He has one more ring than Duncan, but Duncan has twice as many rings as "the man".

And I think Kobe is/was a great player. I go back-and-forth between he and Olajuwon. Some days I'll have Kobe at #9 and other days I'll have Hakeem at #9. I just don't think he's closer to the top five than #10.

[swag2011]

Just like how Kobe's fans discredit his teammates, is that the double-standard you're talking about? And yeah I'm sure having Phil in his corner played little to no part in anything.

OMG shut the f up about Phil! MJ had Phil, Shaq had Phil, Pippen had Phil, and i'm damn sure you don't say well they had PHIL that's why the won? But of course, with Kobe, they had Phil so that's why they won. Not even mentioning the fact that Phil came back after leaving Kobe in 04 and they didn't win shit until a few years.

GTFOH with that BS. Yall say Kobe is always overrated by his stans but we have to overrate him because yall always SERIOUSLY underrate him. The hate is strong.

Nobody discredits all his teammates, but yall put them on this godly pedestal and act like they are the GOATS and always say they are the reason Kobe won, rather than looking at everything KOBE did as well.

Yall say Kobe needs a stacked roster to win, yet not mentioning EVERYBODY has help. Didn't Bron have to pair up with a top 5 player in Wade, and a top PF in Bosh. Not to mention all the 3 point snipers he has on his team, and a coach mentored under Pat Riley? Didn't Jordan have PHIL, Pippen, Rodman and Steve Kerr.

Tell me good sir, what championship did Shaq win until Kobe became a full starter? Didn't he have that same Phil, and fisher, and horry, and rick fox, and KOBE? But i'm sure you don't say that BS now do you?

Yall haters give him NO credit and like i said before, the thought of him winning a 6th ring is scaring yall. He's just trying to even the playing field. I can't wait for *he only won b/c of GOAT PG Nash, GOAT center Dwight, GOAT BENCH PLAYER DEVIN EBANKS, GOAT PG STEVE BLAKE, GOAT COTY MIKE BROWN* :bowdown: :bowdown:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe barely existed for Shaq's first championship. How fcuking old were you in 2000? :confusedshrug:
Huh?
Shaq's first championship in 2000?
Kobe was an All-star. He averaged 23ppg, 6 boards, 5 assists that season.

[NumberSix]

Huh?
Shaq's first championship in 2000?
Kobe was an All-star. He averaged 23ppg, 6 boards, 5 assists that season.
I was responding to his comment where he specified the finals.

[Cali Syndicate]

They always say "dominant" big men.
Makes me laugh everytime. Pau is a great player but he is not dominant. And Bynum averaged 6/4 and 9/7, not even close to dominant. So where are these "dominant" big men that Kobe won with other than Shaq?

Bynum was playing extremely well towards the end of the 09 season, perhaps not the player he was last season but definitely a glimpse of what he was capable of. That's ridiculously talented role player to have on your team.

[AK47DR91]

I was responding to his comment where he specified the finals.
Kobe played in five of those six 2000 Finals series.

14 points on 6/7 shooting in Game 1 W
2 points on 1/3 shooting in Game 2 W (9 minutes of play due to injury)
Did not play in Game 3 L
28 points on 14/27 shooting in Game 4 W
8 points on 4/20 shooting in Game 5 L
26 points on 8/27 shooting in Game 6 W

Kobe was instrumental to the Lakers 2000 Finals victory. Without Godbe, there would have not been a three-peat Lakers Dynasty.

[Cali Syndicate]

OMG shut the f up about Phil! MJ had Phil, Shaq had Phil, Pippen had Phil, and i'm damn sure you don't say well they had PHIL that's why the won? But of course, with Kobe, they had Phil so that's why they won. Not even mentioning the fact that Phil came back after leaving Kobe in 04 and they didn't win shit until a few years.

By Jordan adopting the triangle system and Phil's philosophy, he became a champion. Shaq became the most dominant player in the game due to the triangle. Kobe led his team to a losing record without Phil in the 05 season and with Phil was at least a playoff contender. Phil isn't everything but he sure accounts for a lot. And yes, they weren't relevant until til they made that trade bringing in who again? But oh yeah Gasol is barely a player right?


GTFOH with that BS. Yall say Kobe is always overrated by his stans but we have to overrate him because yall always SERIOUSLY underrate him. The hate is strong.

He's still a great player.


Nobody discredits all his teammates, but yall put them on this godly pedestal and act like they are the GOATS and always say they are the reason Kobe won, rather than looking at everything KOBE did as well.

Really? Have you been reading this thread at all? Great teams don't need a big three, just a great rotation and team play but Kobetards don't seems to want to acknowledge this.


Yall say Kobe needs a stacked roster to win, yet not mentioning EVERYBODY has help. Didn't Bron have to pair up with a top 5 player in Wade, and a top PF in Bosh. Not to mention all the 3 point snipers he has on his team, and a coach mentored under Pat Riley? Didn't Jordan have PHIL, Pippen, Rodman and Steve Kerr.

Mentored or not, Spoelstra sucks. That talent on that team won them their championship.


Tell me good sir, what championship did Shaq win until Kobe became a full starter? Didn't he have that same Phil, and fisher, and horry, and rick fox, and KOBE? But i'm sure you don't say that BS now do you?

You do realize Phil became the Lakers head coach in 2000 right?



Yall haters give him NO credit and like i said before, the thought of him winning a 6th ring is scaring yall. He's just trying to even the playing field. I can't wait for *he only won b/c of GOAT PG Nash, GOAT center Dwight, GOAT COTY MIKE BROWN* :bowdown: :bowdown:

And..... end rant.

[mehyaM24]

Kobe has the 2010 Celtics series but obviously that 6/24 game 7 with Perkins out and Gasol grabbing more offensive rebounds than the entire Celtics team will always follow him around.

....im supposed to be impressed by kobe's 15 rebounds?....:lol ....i saw the game,the choker was pathetic.

lebron- 27 pts,19 rbs,10 assists....eliminated by celtics

kobe- 23 pts,15 rbs,3 assists......handed the finals mvp on the same day.

lebron- 27 pts,13 missed shots

kobe- 23 pts,18 missed shots

kobe is a sidekick who is always carried by superior teammates.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

....im supposed to be impressed by kobe's 15 rebounds?....:lol ....i saw the game,the choker was pathetic.

lebron- 27 pts,19 rbs,10 assists....eliminated by celtics

kobe- 23 pts,15 rbs,3 assists......handed the finals mvp on the same day.

lebron- 27 pts,13 missed shots

kobe- 23 pts,18 missed shots

kobe is a sidekick who is always carried by superior teammates.
Pauk, you are not even good a trolling.

[lilgodfather1]

Kobe should not be ranked below Hakeem. He is #9, and Hakeem is #10.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe should not be ranked below Hakeem. He is #9, and Hakeem is #10.

i really dont care if shaq in 2000 was more "dominant" than kobe ever was... its no reason to put shaq over kobe

kobe has the better career, more longevity

if people use this "peak" thing or best 1 season level to rank players... jordan isnt the GOAT... wilt/shaq/oscar all would be higher than mj

kobe is at around 6-7 all time period

[mehyaM24]

Pauk, you are not even good a trolling.

lebron will win many championships.....you know you are great when youre 27 and have played with pathetic teammates your whole career yet people expect titles. :oldlol:

who has the better teammates???? lakers are 31-10 without kobe in 5 title years. cavs were 1-15 without lebron his last 3 years there. lakers dominate without kobe......cleveland is NOTHING without lebron

[NumberSix]

i really dont care if shaq in 2000 was more "dominant" than kobe ever was... its no reason to put shaq over kobe
Is this a serious post?

[kennethgriffin]

Is this a serious post?

yes

absolute peak doesnt justify all time ranking

if you're arguing who was the most dominant in their best season then wilt would be run away GOAT... elgin baylor would be top 5 with shaq, oscar etc...

jordan wouldnt even be top 5 for god sake..

1-2 seasons doesnt make anyone better than someone all time.. shaq had a short lived prime.. he finally figured out how to play with more than 1 move and showed up on defense in 1999-2000... then was over the hill by 2003-2004

so no way is shaq better than kobe who was elite and dominant from 2001 till 2012 ( and counting )

no way no chance no how

[mehyaM24]

i really dont care if shaq in 2000 was more "dominant" than kobe ever was... its no reason to put shaq over kobe

kobe has the better career, more longevity

if people use this "peak" thing or best 1 season level to rank players... jordan isnt the GOAT... wilt/shaq/oscar all would be higher than mj

kobe is at around 6-7 all time period



nahh...kobe is an underachiever. thats a fact. with the teams he has had,there should be a minimum of 8 titles..

kobes pathetic play ended the 3-peat...he missed 90 shots in 6 games vs the 2003 spurs. the selfish ballhog took 57 more shots than shaq that series,yet shaq was wayyyy more efficient...

and the 04 finals vs detroit? kobe shot .381%...outrebounded by chauncey billups and gary payton.

shaq outscored him in all 4 finals and won 3 straight mvps over kobe

[Lebron23]

Top 11

[kennethgriffin]

Top 11


lebron james ring chased and won his only title in a short lockout year that nobody will even count as a full ring and it will forever have an actual legit asterisk put next to it in nba record books.

how do you feel about that?

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frewg.png

LOL@ half a trophy

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]nahh...kobe is an underachiever. thats a fact. with the teams he has had,there should be a minimum of 8 titles..

kobes pathetic play ended the 3-peat...he missed 90 shots in 6 games vs the 2003 spurs. the selfish ballhog took 57 more shots than shaq that series,yet shaq was wayyyy more efficient...

and the 04 finals vs detroit? kobe shot .381%...outrebounded by chauncey billups and gary payton.

shaq outscored him in all 4 finals and won 3 straight mvps over kobe

[Cali Syndicate]

Top 11

Bottom half of the top 10.

[KyrieTheFuture]

another 2 idiots who cant read

i never said hakeem was top 5

i never said kobe was top 5

i said kobe is closer to top 5 than top 10

meaning he's more around 6th-7th than 9th or 10th

because kobe with HALF a career still outdoes hakeem who is top 10

No he absolutely is not closer to top 5. There is no case for him being higher than 8. Hakeem is 10 or 9 and Kobe is 8 or 9. Want to know who else was way better than keem? Everyone else in the top 7.

[mehyaM24]

underachiver with 5 rings and counting with a top 6-7 all time resume

you must have a legit top level of respect for kobe if you think he could do better

thanks

the way the media sucks his nuts...you would think he's better than lebron. bottom line: kobe makes no impact....in fact,he brings his teams down.

[DixieNourmous]

he is lucky he played for lakers organization, and his game is marketable to ppl who dont know ball like justin bieb is marktable to peep who dont know music. thts all it is. both r the most overrated in their fields prob ever when u count fan obsessio
Lakers have been to the finals more than any other team. You think the "fans dont know ball" in LA?

Either you are 12 and have only seen a few years of basketball or you have an anger problem with Kobe. Love him or hate him he will be in the Hall of Fame, voted in by people that do know about basketball.

When you type rants like you just did, you loose cred..... just sayin

[KG215]

underachiver with 5 rings and counting with a top 6-7 all time resume

you must have a legit top level of respect for kobe if you think he could do better

thanks

You still never did what I asked. How his is resume better than Shaq and Duncan's. That's the only way he could have even a top 7 resume since most people have Shaq and Duncan at 7 and 8. If you want to say he has a top 6 resume, then you better be able to make a case for how he is a better player with a better resume than at least Bird, and probably everyone else in the top 6 because they're all interchangeable to an extent. I personally have Bird at #6, so I'd love to see your case for Kobe and how his resume and career is better than Bird's, Shaq's, AND Duncan's.

[kennethgriffin]

No he absolutely is not closer to top 5. There is no case for him being higher than 8. Hakeem is 10 or 9 and Kobe is 8 or 9. Want to know who else was way better than keem? Everyone else in the top 7.

but there is a case


ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time
Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd
5th most career points in NBA History
3rd most career points in NBA Hstory
2nd most 60pt games in NBA History
3rd most 50pt games in NBA History
3rd most 40pt games in NBA History
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA History
4th most 40pt playoff games in NBA History



1st title average - 23/5/5 ( 21/5/5 playoffs )
2nd title average - 28/5/5 ( 30/5/5 playoffs )
3rd title average - 25/5/5 ( 27/5/5 playoffs )

then without shaq 2 of the most dominant playoff runs with only pau gasol as his next best player

30-5-6 on 56 TS% - 2009 Playoffs
34-6-6 on 63 TS% - 2009 WCF
32-6-7 on 53 TS% - 2009 Finals
29-6-6 on 57 TS% - 2010 Playoffs
34-7-8 on 68 TS% - 2010 WCF
29-8-4 on 53 TS% - 2010 Finals



player of the decade by TNT, SPORTING NEWS, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED



no case? WTF

[KG215]

player of the decade by TNT, SPORTING NEWS, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED



no case? WTF

Wasn't the player of the decade by TNT a fan vote that happened towards the end of the decade when Kobe was coming off another ring and Shaq's dominance was 8-10 years in the rear view mirror? Don't now about the Sporting News and Sports Illustrated "Player of the Decade" but I'm pretty sure TNT's was a fan vote.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

but there is a case


ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time
Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd
5th most career points in NBA History
3rd most career points in NBA Hstory
2nd most 60pt games in NBA History
3rd most 50pt games in NBA History
3rd most 40pt games in NBA History
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA History
4th most 40pt playoff games in NBA History



1st title average - 23/5/5 ( 21/5/5 playoffs )
2nd title average - 28/5/5 ( 30/5/5 playoffs )
3rd title average - 25/5/5 ( 27/5/5 playoffs )

then without shaq 2 of the most dominant playoff runs with only pau gasol as his next best player

30-5-6 on 56 TS% - 2009 Playoffs
34-6-6 on 63 TS% - 2009 WCF
32-6-7 on 53 TS% - 2009 Finals
29-6-6 on 57 TS% - 2010 Playoffs
34-7-8 on 68 TS% - 2010 WCF
29-8-4 on 53 TS% - 2010 Finals



player of the decade by TNT, SPORTING NEWS, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED



no case? WTF
DAYUM!
:bowdown:

[The-Legend-24]

:applause: Kobe has a better overall resume than Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Bird, etc.. he's gonna be top 5 by the time he retires.

Get mad.

[9erempiree]

Top 5be

[joeyjoejoe]

I see kobe more as a role player not a leader like lebron, cp3. His impact on games isnt that great, i think most ppl agree his top 10 ranking is more due to awards, rings, longevity and stans rather then individual play

[swag2011]

but there is a case


ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time
Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd
5th most career points in NBA History
3rd most career points in NBA Hstory
2nd most 60pt games in NBA History
3rd most 50pt games in NBA History
3rd most 40pt games in NBA History
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA History
4th most 40pt playoff games in NBA History



1st title average - 23/5/5 ( 21/5/5 playoffs )
2nd title average - 28/5/5 ( 30/5/5 playoffs )
3rd title average - 25/5/5 ( 27/5/5 playoffs )

then without shaq 2 of the most dominant playoff runs with only pau gasol as his next best player

30-5-6 on 56 TS% - 2009 Playoffs
34-6-6 on 63 TS% - 2009 WCF
32-6-7 on 53 TS% - 2009 Finals
29-6-6 on 57 TS% - 2010 Playoffs
34-7-8 on 68 TS% - 2010 WCF
29-8-4 on 53 TS% - 2010 Finals



player of the decade by TNT, SPORTING NEWS, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED



no case? WTF

LOL but they dont' hear you though. According to ISH, he only accomplished ALL of this because of someone else hahahaa.

Kobe :rockon: Don't forget that he's the YOUNGEST all star starter in history (started every single one) and he's won 4 all star game MVP's too. I'm glad you didn't name the lakers records he holds, we'd be listing shit all day.

But Kobe Bean Bryant :bowdown:

[gengiskhan]

Top 11

well said.

Kobe AINT Top 5 at all.

Kobe AINT guaranteed Top 10 either. (Russell, Hakeem, Shaq, Big O, Duncan Sir Charles are)

Kobe is Top 12 Guaranteed.

His position is 11th at best maybe even tied with Sir Charles.

Too much inefficiency, inconsistency, ROY missing, MVP "sweep" is missing, Multiple season MVPs are missing, Sheer domianance of Shaq, Hakeem, Big O is clearly missing from the Kobe's resume. Kobe era's contemporaries like Melo, AI, Wade, LBJ dont fear him at all.

BTW, Once LBJs career is done. Hell sneak into Top 10 looks like. Clearly displacing both Kobe & Duncan for good.

[KyrieTheFuture]

People are so god damn black and white on him. People who say he accomplished everything due to others are hilariously wrong and people saying he carried his teams with Pau are seriously disrespecting Pau Gasol. I don't understand it. Also a huge part of his stats and accolades are his longevity which is incredible. However, his ability to stay healthy does not make him more talented (IMO) I mean if that's important to you then fine but I also don't know why people act like top 10 lists are definite they are incredibly subjective. It's all about what is important to you.

[KG215]

well said.

Kobe AINT Top 5 at all.

Kobe AINT guaranteed Top 10 either. (Russell, Hakeem, Shaq, Big O, Duncan Sir Charles are)


:wtf:

Barkley is guaranteed top 10? On what planet?

[kennethgriffin]

People are so god damn black and white on him. People who say he accomplished everything due to others are hilariously wrong and people saying he carried his teams with Pau are seriously disrespecting Pau Gasol. I don't understand it. Also a huge part of his stats and accolades are his longevity which is incredible. However, his ability to stay healthy does not make him more talented (IMO) I mean if that's important to you then fine but I also don't know why people act like top 10 lists are definite they are incredibly subjective. It's all about what is important to you.


i'm sorry bit just being healthy has nothing to do with any of kobes all time rankings

no one is just gifted something because they play a long time

averaging nearly 30/5/5 while on a contender isnt easy

especially when you do it nearly every year for over a decade

and i dont know how you translate scoring 40,50,60pts so many times just because a guy keeps healthy LOL

[gengiskhan]

:applause: Kobe has a better overall resume than Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Bird, etc.. he's gonna be top 5 by the time he retires.

Get mad.

But Kobe "collected" rings because of Shaq's insane domiannce btw 2000-2003 & 3 FMVPs for Shaq.

Same cannot be said about Duncan "collecting" rings because of D'Rob or eve Hakeem.

BTW, please do not ever insult Bird's brilliant IQ, MVP sweeps TWICE in 1984 & 1986 & 3 consequitive season MVPs but comparing him to lower standard great player like Kobe.

Bird is Top 5 GOATs guaranteed along with Magic & MJ & Kareem & Wilt.

Kobe aint even guaranteed Top 10.

case closed.

[gengiskhan]

:wtf:

Barkley is guaranteed top 10? On what planet?

NO.

Kobe AINT guaranteed Top 10 & neither is Barkley.

I said Kobe & Barkley fighting for Top 12th or Top 11th spot.

You can give Kobe 11th spot, & downgrade Charles for not winning a ring.

I accept it.

[The-Legend-24]

^ :roll:

[KyrieTheFuture]

i'm sorry bit just being healthy has nothing to do with any of kobes all time rankings

no one is just gifted something because they play a long time

averaging nearly 30/5/5 while on a contender isnt easy

especially when you do it nearly every year for over a decade

and i dont know how you translate scoring 40,50,60pts so many times just because a guy keeps healthy LOL

Yes please pick out one thing I said and refute it with stats unrelated to what I was saying. All of his career and playoff totals are due to his longevity and him never getting seriously hurt allowed to him to continue playing at a high level leading his teams to contention. If Bird never got injured, or Magic never got HIV they would have even more impressive resumes. If MJ never retired the gap between him and anyone wouldn't even be close. Kobe is a volume scorer of course he's gonna put those games up. However, everyone ahead of him has a much more rounded game than him.

[swag2011]

But Kobe "collected" rings because of Shaq's insane domiannce btw 2000-2003 & 3 FMVPs for Shaq.

Same cannot be said about Duncan "collecting" rings because of D'Rob or eve Hakeem.

BTW, please do not ever insult Bird's brilliant IQ, MVP sweeps TWICE in 1984 & 1986 & 3 consequitive season MVPs but comparing him to lower standard great player like Kobe.

Bird is Top 5 GOATs guaranteed along with Magic & MJ & Kareem & Wilt.

Kobe aint even guaranteed Top 10.

case closed.

Cool let's play a game shall we?

Oh true. So Kareem collected 4 rings, ya know he only has 2 FMVPS. Magic collected 2 rings as well, he only has 3 FMVPS. Shaq and Duncan collected their last rings, since they have 3 FMVPS. Bird collected that last ring as well, he only has 2 FMVPS.

So new ring updates.

Shaq- 3 rings, 3 FMVPs
Magic- 3 rings, 3FMVPs
Duncan- 3 rings, 3FMVPs
Kareem- 2 rings, 2FMVPs
Bird- 2 rings, 2FMVPs
Kobe- 2 rings, 2FMVPs

Oh wait, my bad, you don't use that logic with anyone else, so Kobe's got you so mad, you only try to discredit his rings.

:oldlol: B!tch shut up, you see how stupid you sound.

[lilblingy]

But Kobe "collected" rings because of Shaq's insane domiannce btw 2000-2003 & 3 FMVPs for Shaq.

Same cannot be said about Duncan "collecting" rings because of D'Rob or eve Hakeem.

BTW, please do not ever insult Bird's brilliant IQ, MVP sweeps TWICE in 1984 & 1986 & 3 consequitive season MVPs but comparing him to lower standard great player like Kobe.

Bird is Top 5 GOATs guaranteed along with Magic & MJ & Kareem & Wilt.

Kobe aint even guaranteed Top 10.

case closed.

Could shaq win those rings without Kobe? Idiots on ish act as if Kobe was ****ing derrick fisher on the early 2000 Lakers team. What i love about it though is how you go on to compliment Magic and Kareem as if they aren't two top 5 players teaming up to win rings.

F****** ish:facepalm

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

NO.

Kobe AINT guaranteed Top 10 & neither is Barkley.

I said Kobe & Barkley fighting for Top 12th or Top 11th spot.

You can give Kobe 11th spot, & downgrade Charles for not winning a ring.

I accept it.
you are getting severely owned in this thread. step away while you still can.

[Deuce Bigalow]

NO.

Kobe AINT guaranteed Top 10 & neither is Barkley.

I said Kobe & Barkley fighting for Top 12th or Top 11th spot.

You can give Kobe 11th spot, & downgrade Charles for not winning a ring.

I accept it.

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time:

Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list is the 2011 edition of SLAM (http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/)

[The Iron Fist]

the way the media sucks his nuts...you would think he's better than lebron. bottom line: kobe makes no impact....in fact,he brings his teams down.
Shaq with no Kobe, no finals wins, but Kobe brings his teammates down.
Pau with no Kobe, no playoff wins, but Kobe brings his teammates down.
Odom with no Kobe, smoking LAs finest kush, but Kobe brings his teammates down.

[The Iron Fist]

I see kobe more as a role player not a leader like lebron, cp3. His impact on games isnt that great, i think most ppl agree his top 10 ranking is more due to awards, rings, longevity and stans rather then individual play
His impact on games isn't great, but he scored more than an entire team through three quarters.

Do you cats really believe the shit you say?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Cool let's play a game shall we?

Oh true. So Kareem collected 4 rings, ya know he only has 2 FMVPS. Magic collected 2 rings as well, he only has 3 FMVPS. Shaq and Duncan collected their last rings, since they have 3 FMVPS. Bird collected that last ring as well, he only has 2 FMVPS.

So new ring updates.

Shaq- 3 rings, 3 FMVPs
Magic- 3 rings, 3FMVPs
Duncan- 3 rings, 3FMVPs
Kareem- 2 rings, 2FMVPs
Bird- 2 rings, 2FMVPs
Kobe- 2 rings, 2FMVPs

Oh wait, my bad, you don't use that logic with anyone else, so Kobe's got you so mad, you only try to discredit his rings.

:oldlol: B!tch shut up, you see how stupid you sound.

I don't mean to be an ass but by this logic Kobe still isnt that close to top 5 :confusedshrug: the ring argument is so god damn stupid

[gengiskhan]

Could shaq win those rings without Kobe? Idiots on ish act as if Kobe was ****ing derrick fisher on the early 2000 Lakers team. What i love about it though is how you go on to compliment Magic and Kareem as if they aren't two top 5 players teaming up to win rings.

F****** ish:facepalm

Shaq + AI = 3+ rings
Shaq + T-Mac in his peak prime = 2-3 Rings
Shaq + Wade in his prime peak = 3 rings ( hell this combo already got 1 ring)

enuf of this BS. Shaq literally carried kobe in 2000-2003 & got him 3 rings.

Kobe tried to carry Shaq in 2004 & we all know the result. :facepalm

Kobe aint top 10 guaranteed.

accept it. Its a hard fact. Kobe just lacks Shaq like dominance.

[swag2011]

I don't mean to be an ass but by this logic Kobe still isnt that close to top 5 :confusedshrug: the ring argument is so god damn stupid

that's ok. As a Kobe stan, i have him ranked any where from 7-9, in that group with Shaq and Duncan. My mind changes every day. But since people discredit Kobe for not winning FMVP of all his rings, then it's only fair to do that with everyone else right? When i begin to discredit everyone else for not winning FMVP for all their rings, the haters COMPLETELY become quiet. notice how they haven't said anything about it yet? Because it's dumb. NO ONE in history would've won FMVP over Shaq.

[gengiskhan]

Bird 3 consecutive season MVPs >>>>> Kobe's 1 consolidation MVP in 16 yrs

Bird 2 x MVP "sweeps" >>>>>> Kobe's 0 MVP sweeps (season MVP + FMVP in same yr)

Bird dominated the '80s NBA despite being non-athlete. Kobe has been great, an all time great but did not dominate the NBA.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe Bryant's ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time:

Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd

Top 25 players of all-time list is the 2011 edition of SLAM (http://www.interbasket.net/news/7683/2011/04/top-500-nba-players-of-all-time-slam/)


kobes also tied for 1st all time with jordan and garnett with 9 1st team all defensive awards

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe just lacks Shaq like dominance.
81

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe has been great, an all time great but did not dominate the NBA.
5th most career points in NBA History
2nd most 60pt games in NBA History
3rd most 50pt games in NBA History
3rd most 40pt games in NBA History
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA History
4th most 40pt playoff games in NBA History

dominate :confusedshrug:

[gengiskhan]

5th most career points in NBA History
2nd most 60pt games in NBA History
3rd most 50pt games in NBA History
3rd most 40pt games in NBA History
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA History
4th most 40pt playoff games in NBA History

dominate :confusedshrug:

"Rookie of the Year" is MISSING

"NCAA Legacy" is MISSING

"Bball IQ" is MISSING

"Intangibles" are MISSING

"court vision" is MISSING

"true leadership" Magic-like, Bird-like, Jordan-like & now LBJ-like is MISSING

Multiple Season MVPs are MISSING

PER is MISSING

Efficiency is MISSING

"MVP Sweep" is MISSING (season MVP + FMVP in same year. Duncan has 1, LBJ has 1. Bird has 2. MAGIC has 1. Hakeem has 1. MJ has 4) Kobe was given a huge chance in 2008 with most talented big men in LAL line up. he blew it.

Kobe has NEVER dominanted his ever. NEVER. LBJ has been considered clear better player than him since past 3 yrs with tons of MVPs under his belt. Wade at times was considered better SG than Kobe because of clearly better shot blocking defense despite being robbed of all def 1st team TWICE. At times, Duncan was considered better specially after 2003 MVP sweep.

now Durant is considered a better player than Kobe.

Kobe was never clearly "the best" dominanant player of his era. He was always regarded as one of the best of his era.

a reason why no opponent really "fears" him like contemporaries feared MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq.

Its a fact.

[Doctor Rivers]

"Rookie of the Year" is MISSING

"NCAA Legacy" is MISSING

"Bball IQ" is MISSING

"Intangibles" are MISSING

"court vision" is MISSING

"true leadership" Magic-like, Bird-like, Jordan-like & now LBJ-like is MISSING

Multiple Season MVPs are MISSING

PER is MISSING

Efficiency is MISSING

"MVP Sweep" is MISSING (season MVP + FMVP in same year. Duncan has 1, LBJ has 1. Bird has 2. MAGIC has 1. Hakeem has 1. MJ has 4) Kobe was given a huge chance in 2008 with most talented big men in LAL line up. he blew it.

Kobe has NEVER dominanted his ever. NEVER. LBJ has been considered clear better player than him since past 3 yrs with tons of MVPs under his belt. Wade at times was considered better SG than Kobe because of clearly better shot blocking defense despite being robbed of all def 1st team TWICE. At times, Duncan was considered better specially after 2003 MVP sweep.

now Durant is considered a better player than Kobe.

Kobe was never clearly "the best" dominanant player of his era. He was always regarded as one of the best of his era.

a reason why no opponent really "fears" him like contemporaries feared MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq.

Its a fact.

Damn I thought you were dead

[KG215]

NO.

Kobe AINT guaranteed Top 10 & neither is Barkley.

I said Kobe & Barkley fighting for Top 12th or Top 11th spot.

You can give Kobe 11th spot, & downgrade Charles for not winning a ring.

I accept it.

Reading comprehension, my bad. I still think even top 15 is too high for Barkley (I have him in the 16-20 range) but whatever.

[Dictator]

[B]
"NCAA Legacy" is MISSING

"Bball IQ" is MISSING

"Intangibles" are MISSING

"court vision" is MISSING

"true leadership" Magic-like, Bird-like, Jordan-like & now LBJ-like is MISSING


Kobe has NEVER dominanted his ever. NEVER. LBJ has been considered clear better player than him since past 3 yrs with tons of MVPs under his belt. Wade at times was considered better SG than Kobe because of clearly better shot blocking defense despite being robbed of all def 1st team TWICE. At times, Duncan was considered better specially after 2003 MVP sweep.

now Durant is considered a better player than Kobe.

Kobe was never clearly "the best" dominanant player of his era. He was always regarded as one of the best of his era.



:facepalm :coleman: :biggums: :hammerhead:

[kennethgriffin]

"Rookie of the Year" is MISSING

"NCAA Legacy" is MISSING

"Bball IQ" is MISSING

"Intangibles" are MISSING

"court vision" is MISSING

"true leadership" Magic-like, Bird-like, Jordan-like & now LBJ-like is MISSING

Multiple Season MVPs are MISSING

PER is MISSING

Efficiency is MISSING

"MVP Sweep" is MISSING (season MVP + FMVP in same year. Duncan has 1, LBJ has 1. Bird has 2. MAGIC has 1. Hakeem has 1. MJ has 4) Kobe was given a huge chance in 2008 with most talented big men in LAL line up. he blew it.

Kobe has NEVER dominanted his ever. NEVER. LBJ has been considered clear better player than him since past 3 yrs with tons of MVPs under his belt. Wade at times was considered better SG than Kobe because of clearly better shot blocking defense despite being robbed of all def 1st team TWICE. At times, Duncan was considered better specially after 2003 MVP sweep.

now Durant is considered a better player than Kobe.

Kobe was never clearly "the best" dominanant player of his era. He was always regarded as one of the best of his era.

a reason why no opponent really "fears" him like contemporaries feared MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq.

Its a fact.

:biggums:

rookie of the year? that award holds absolutely no meaning and is never used in comparrisons or all time ranking

NCAA legacy? when has this ever been used to measure an nba player.. some of the biggest bums are ncaa legends.. some of the biggest nba legends are ncaa nobodys

bball IQ? :facepalm kobe has a great mind for the game and was the main and best play maker for 5 championship teams

intagibles? :facepalm kobe is one of the most fundimentaly sound and complete players ever... dominant rebounder for a guard... one of the best shooting guard play makers ever. perfect left hand. almost every shot in the book... all time footwork

honestly wow...

court vision? look up an assist/passing youtube clip for a change

true leadership? kobes a leader by example... just like jordan. vocal leaders are usually cheer leaders that are veteren role players

season mvps? ask nash and dirk where his other 2 are

PER? a stat that favors big men...

efficiency? kobe has a good true shooting %

mvp sweep? again... i hold no meaning for an award that changes its criteria every year to fit a storyline by the media WHO VOTE FOR IT

kobe was clear cut best of a decade... he was the player of the decade by 3 major names... sporting news, sports illustrated and tnt

there is no player of the year or best player of the year award so its all opinion.. and i will bet you any amount of money that more often than not during the 00's kobe would have had the ladder of the vote for such a title as "best player"


you obviously arnt worth convincing. but i'l play the game anyway

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol:

By that logic, take away roughly 1/2 of Lebron's career, say from before 2007 and you have this:

3 Season MVPs
1 Championship
1 Finals MVP
1 scoring title
5 All NBA first team selections
5 All NBA first defensive team selections (finished 2nd in DPOY voting)
5 all star team selections
16 player of the month selections
#1 in Player Efficiency Rating every season
Top 10 in the league in APG every season

Averages of 28.4 PPG/7.6 RPG/7.2 APG/50%FG

Lebron should be considered a top 5 player since obviously, his last 5 years have been better than Kobe's last 7. You agree right?

[NumberSix]

:oldlol:

By that logic, take away roughly 1/2 of Lebron's career, say from before 2007 and you have this:

3 Season MVPs
1 Championship
1 Finals MVP
1 scoring title
5 All NBA first team selections
5 All NBA first defensive team selections (finished 2nd in DPOY voting)
5 all star team selections
16 player of the month selections
#1 in Player Efficiency Rating every season
Top 10 in the league in APG every season

Averages of 28.4 PPG/7.6 RPG/7.2 APG/50%FG

Lebron should be considered a top 5 player since obviously, his last 5 years have been better than Kobe's last 7. You agree right?
Dat ether.

[joeyjoejoe]

Any decent scorer can outscore the rest of their team through 3 qrtrs if they shoot 80% of the teams attempts lol, kobe fans dont believe in per, eff i wonder why

[Legends66NBA7]

Funny read.

Arbitrary lists remain arbitrary.

[Cali Syndicate]

Any decent scorer can outscore the rest of their team through 3 qrtrs if they shoot 80% of the teams attempts lol, kobe fans dont believe in per, eff i wonder why

Any decent scorer can outscore the entire opponent's team through three quarters? Really?

[The Iron Fist]

:oldlol:

By that logic, take away roughly 1/2 of Lebron's career, say from before 2007 and you have this:

3 Season MVPs
1 Championship
1 Finals MVP
1 scoring title
5 All NBA first team selections
5 All NBA first defensive team selections (finished 2nd in DPOY voting)
5 all star team selections
16 player of the month selections
#1 in Player Efficiency Rating every season
Top 10 in the league in APG every season

Averages of 28.4 PPG/7.6 RPG/7.2 APG/50%FG

Lebron should be considered a top 5 player since obviously, his last 5 years have been better than Kobe's last 7. You agree right?
:facepalm
You don't even understand the point of the logic as it has been presented.

[kennethgriffin]

Dat ether.

not kobes fault the 1st half of lebrons career was meaningless while the 1st half of kobes career had a cumbersome amount of success

ya if you take away nothing from lebrons worthless first half of his career he has about the same accomplishments

but taking away kobes 1st 8 years actually hurts

LOL


fail and a half leboners

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

:oldlol:

By that logic, take away roughly 1/2 of Lebron's career, say from before 2007 and you have this:

3 Season MVPs
1 Championship
1 Finals MVP
1 scoring title
5 All NBA first team selections
5 All NBA first defensive team selections (finished 2nd in DPOY voting)
5 all star team selections
16 player of the month selections
#1 in Player Efficiency Rating every season
Top 10 in the league in APG every season

Averages of 28.4 PPG/7.6 RPG/7.2 APG/50%FG

Lebron should be considered a top 5 player since obviously, his last 5 years have been better than Kobe's last 7. You agree right?
Actually, I think that speaks very well for Lebron. Probably the best argument I have seen for him being considered at top 20 player all time.

[NumberSix]

not kobes fault the 1st half of lebrons career was meaningless while the 1st half of kobes career had a cumbersome amount of success

ya if you take away nothing from lebrons worthless first half of his career he has about the same accomplishments

but taking away kobes 1st 8 years actually hurts

LOL


fail and a half lebonersThen why do Kobe stans always insist on not counting chunks of his career? :confusedshrug:

[The Iron Fist]

Any decent scorer can outscore the rest of their team through 3 qrtrs if they shoot 80% of the teams attempts lol, kobe fans dont believe in per, eff i wonder why
As usual, someone who gets mentally hurt by Kobes success, has to make up lies to try and discredit one of his incredible achievements.

The lie here is, is that Kobe shot 80% of the teams shots that night.

Reality says, that the Lakers as a team, shot 72 times. Kobe, took 31 of those.

I don't know about joeyjoejoes math, but mine says 31 out of 72 is 43%.


Now, before joeyjoejoe, or anyone gets all huffy puffy and screams, :banghead: :rant BUT YOU'RE COUNTING THE FOURTH QUARTER, HE DIDN'T PLAY IN THE FOURTH:rant :banghead:

Through three quarters, the Lakers shot 55 times, with Kobe taking 31 of them.

31/55= NOT 80%, but 56.


And thats not even getting into the "decent scorer" part.

[9erempiree]

It's pretty amazing just taking away the first half of Kobe's career and he has accomplished more from Hakeem.

[The Iron Fist]

It's pretty amazing just taking away the first half of Kobe's career and he has accomplished more from Hakeem.
Even more than most of the players in history.

[AlonzoGOAT]

It's pretty amazing just taking away the first half of Kobe's career and he has accomplished more from Hakeem.

This logic is scewed proven by the poster before this page and you claimed to be too old to like any player so you critique them but I've seen you be on kobe's jock in almost every thread :lol Do you mean old as in the 2 years the lakers haven't won a chip so you think you've been through pain?

[DonDadda59]

not kobes fault the 1st half of lebrons career was meaningless while the 1st half of kobes career had a cumbersome amount of success

ya if you take away nothing from lebrons worthless first half of his career he has about the same accomplishments

but taking away kobes 1st 8 years actually hurts

LOL


fail and a half leboners

Hmmmm, what if the first half of Lebron's career looked like this:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc.jpg


Not to mention playing with Karl Malone, Gary Payton, and half the roster of an all star team:

http://andthefoul.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/1998West.jpg

But I guess Big Z and Mo Williams is just as good :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Then why do Kobe stans always insist on not counting chunks of his career? :confusedshrug:

you're about as stupid as the guy in your avy

the point isnt to hide it because its bad

the point is to hide it to show that even without half his success he beats the p*ss outa that muslim POS akwim holajub*tch ... i'm out watching breaking bad...

:coleman:

[AlonzoGOAT]

you're about as stupid as the guy in your avy

the point isnt to hide it because its bad

the point is to hide it to show that even without half his success he beats the p*ss outa that muslim POS akwim holajub*tch ... i'm out watching breaking bad...

:coleman:

:facepalm Your lucky he wasn't jewish.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Any decent scorer can outscore the rest of their team through 3 qrtrs if they shoot 80% of the teams attempts lol, kobe fans dont believe in per, eff i wonder why
Yep. Any decent scorer can do that, that's why it's been done 0 times from someone other than Kobe in NBA History.

[The Iron Fist]

Hmmmm, what if the first half of Lebron's career looked like this:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc.jpg


Not to mention playing with Karl Malone, Gary Payton, and half the roster of an all star team:

http://andthefoul.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/1998West.jpg

But I guess Big Z and Mo Williams is just as good :oldlol:
Shaq before Kobe

http://rlv.zcache.com/ringless_tshirt-p235805205379208019en7m7_400.jpg

The whole "Shaq carried Kobe" would make tons more sense had Shaq already been a champion instead of having zero finals wins.

As it is, Kobe passed up Shaq in the ring count a couple of years ago. You mean to tell me that this oh so great Shaquille O'Neal, only has four rings?

[AlonzoGOAT]

Yep. Any decent scorer can do that, that's why it's been done 0 times from someone other than Kobe in NBA History.
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2012/03/02/ROZo9kgc.jpg

[Doctor Rivers]

don't you guys ever get tired of posting the same stuff?

[fpliii]

OP is on a mission today :applause: :applause: :applause: looks like he's just getting started

griff my man what's your top 10 list look like?

[DonDadda59]

Shaq before Kobe

http://rlv.zcache.com/ringless_tshirt-p235805205379208019en7m7_400.jpg

The whole "Shaq carried Kobe" would make tons more sense had Shaq already been a champion instead of having zero finals wins.

Who was more dominant and productive in their championship wins, Kobe or Shaq? Put your homerism aside and answer that.

And regardless of Shaq not winning championships during the Jordan era and against the great Olajuwon, doesn't change the fact that he was the best player on the team. Kobe spent the first half of his career as a side kick, but we're over here trying to put him in the top 5? No love for Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek in the top 5? :confusedshrug:


As it is, Kobe passed up Shaq in the ring count a couple of years ago. You mean to tell me that this oh so great Shaquille O'Neal, only has four rings?

Now this is flawed logic if I ever saw it :oldlol:

3 of Kobe's rings came courtesy of Shaq's finals MVP worthy dominance, while Kobe's remaining 2 came where many thought Gasol should've gotten MVP. 6-23 in a deciding game 7? C'mon son. By this logic, explain to me why Kobe should be ranked higher than John Havlicek on the all time lists?

[Cali Syndicate]

The whole "Shaq carried Kobe" would make tons more sense had Shaq already been a champion instead of having zero finals wins.

As it is, Kobe passed up Shaq in the ring count a couple of years ago. You mean to tell me that this oh so great Shaquille O'Neal, only has four rings?

And yet the SLAM source one of your fellow Kobetards provided has that 4 ringed Shaq in the all-time top 5. How does that feel?

[EricForman]

Where were you in 09 and 10? Those teams were not stacked.

yes, because in the 2010 playoffs alone, Artest had a 25/5/5 game, Odom had a 19/19 game, Bynum had a 21/11 game, and Gasol had a bunch of big number games.

Kobe is a brilliant player. Top ten all time and climbing up fast, but let's face the facts: with the exception of two years (2006 and 2007), Kobe has had more talent/help than most of his peers. He's had a cast that ranges from good to very, very good for like 13 of his 15 seasons.

[The Iron Fist]

Who was more dominant and productive in their championship wins, Kobe or Shaq? Put your homerism aside and answer that.

And regardless of Shaq not winning championships during the Jordan era and against the great Olajuwon, doesn't change the fact that he was the best player on the team. Kobe spent the first half of his career as a side kick, but we're over here trying to put him in the top 5? No love for Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek in the top 5? :confusedshrug:



Now this is flawed logic if I ever saw it :oldlol:

3 of Kobe's rings came courtesy of Shaq's finals MVP worthy dominance, while Kobe's remaining 2 came where many thought Gasol should've gotten MVP. 6-23 in a deciding game 7? C'mon son. By this logic, explain to me why Kobe should be ranked higher than John Havlicek on the all time lists?


First of all, the "finals", were a mere formality. Everyone who watched the nba back then knew, without a doubt, that the western conference finals was the matchups everyone wanted to see and was considered far and wide, as "the real championship".

So, if you want to compare their stats, fine by me. But history doesn't rewrite itself as Shaq being a champion before he got Kobe. He simply wasn't despite having a few all star guards starting alongside him.

But since you want to play the game of who was more dominant, I'll bite.

Since the game plan was centered on Shaq being the primary weapon, why would Kobe not feed Shaq? Seeing as how all we read every season is that Kobe needs to share the ball and dump it into his bigs, why does he get slighted for doing exactly that? Magic doesn't catch that flak and he played with the greatest player of all time.

So yea, why is it being held against Kobe that he stuck to the game plan and fed the big fella to get the championship? It is a team game is it not?

Last I checked, it is. Kobe played his role, Shaq played his, and they played, together.

So how many wins does Shaq have in the finals without Kobe getting him the ball again? How dominant was Shaq in the finals when Kobe wasn't there slashing and hitting jumpers along the way?


http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002617303/549587658_3829199563_none20flowers_answer_3_xlarge _answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

[NumberSix]

Would these same Kobetards be saying Pippen > Jordan if Scottie would have won a 7th ring with the rockets?

[The Iron Fist]

And yet the SLAM source one of your fellow Kobetards provided has that 4 ringed Shaq in the all-time top 5. How does that feel?


Good for SLAM.

Kobe>Shaq>Duncan>Hakeem.


Cry about it.

[Cali Syndicate]

Good for SLAM.

Kobe>Shaq>Duncan>Hakeem.


Cry about it.

LOL. Says you. SLAM is more credible than some Kobetard with a highly biased opinion about basketball.

3 finals MVP's in 5 appearances while proving himself as one of the greatest finals performers of all-time.

Kobe is a 40% from the field in the finals for his career.

[9erempiree]

LOL. Says you. SLAM is more credible than some Kobetard with a highly biased opinion about basketball.

3 finals MVP's in 5 appearances while proving himself as one of the greatest finals performers of all-time.

Kobe is a 40% from the field in the finals for his career.

Slam is a crappy publication.

[Cali Syndicate]

Slam is a crappy publication.

And Kobetards are crappy fans of the game.

[The Iron Fist]

LOL. Says you. SLAM is more credible than some Kobetard with a highly biased opinion about basketball.

3 finals MVP's in 5 appearances while proving himself as one of the greatest finals performers of all-time.

Kobe is a 40% from the field in the finals for his career.
SLAM is the same as the SOURCE, for basketball. Both shit rags whose audience is 12-18.

[DonDadda59]

First of all, the "finals", were a mere formality. Everyone who watched the nba back then knew, without a doubt, that the western conference finals was the matchups everyone wanted to see and was considered far and wide, as "the real championship".

Yup, just like how everyone was saying SA-OKC this year was the 'real finals'. Regular season, playoffs, WCF, finals, whatever... Shaq>>>>Kobe when they played together. Anyone who watched basketball before Jan of '06 knows that.


So, if you want to compare their stats, fine by me. But history doesn't rewrite itself as Shaq being a champion before he got Kobe. He simply wasn't despite having a few all star guards starting alongside him.

History also records that the Lakers won a championship with Kobe averaging 15 PPG on 36% shooting in one finals series. I can think of at least 20 guards at that time who could've put that up. Jordan's Bulls and Malone's Jazz were done at that point, Phil Jackson introduced the triangle, and that's why Shaq was finally break through and get 3 straight 'ships.


But since you want to play the game of who was more dominant, I'll bite.

Since the game plan was centered on Shaq being the primary weapon, why would Kobe not feed Shaq? Seeing as how all we read every season is that Kobe needs to share the ball and dump it into his bigs, why does he get slighted for doing exactly that? Magic doesn't catch that flak and he played with the greatest player of all time.

So yea, why is it being held against Kobe that he stuck to the game plan and fed the big fella to get the championship? It is a team game is it not?

Last I checked, it is. Kobe played his role, Shaq played his, and they played, together.

Yeah, they played together... and Shaq was the man on that team, Kobe was his sidekick. Playing their roles indeed.


So how many wins does Shaq have in the finals without Kobe getting him the ball again? How dominant was Shaq in the finals when Kobe wasn't there slashing and hitting jumpers along the way?


4 :oldlol:

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/wadeandshaq.jpg

But notice who's holding the MVP trophy in this one. Shaq can't win without Kobe feeding him the ball indeed.

[LockoutOver11]

when I make the NBA ill make top 5:)

[DonDadda59]

Would these same Kobetards be saying Pippen > Jordan if Scottie would have won a 7th ring with the rockets?

Probably :oldlol:

Pippen 7 championships>Jordan 6. How many finals games Jordan won without Pippen feeding him the ball, huh? Pippen top 5 all time.

Idiots.

[Cali Syndicate]

SLAM is the same as the SOURCE, for basketball. Both shit rags whose audience is 12-18.

And most of the votes for the TNT player of the decade poll probably came from the exact same audience.

[9erempiree]

I don't know what's the big deal...it's common knowledge that Kobe's better than Hakeem.

Just look at his accomplishments if we cut his career in half.

[DonDadda59]

I'm about to hit up the OTC and make a tribute thread to the GOAT superhero:

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/grayson3.jpg

Da GAWD :bowdown:

[The Iron Fist]

Yup, just like how everyone was saying SA-OKC this year was the 'real finals'. Regular season, playoffs, WCF, finals, whatever... Shaq>>>>Kobe when they played together. Anyone who watched basketball before Jan of '06 knows that.



History also records that the Lakers won a championship with Kobe averaging 15 PPG on 36% shooting in one finals series. I can think of at least 20 guards at that time who could've put that up. Jordan's Bulls and Malone's Jazz were done at that point, Phil Jackson introduced the triangle, and that's why Shaq was finally break through and get 3 straight 'ships.



Yeah, they played together... and Shaq was the man on that team, Kobe was his sidekick. Playing their roles indeed.



4 :oldlol:

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/wadeandshaq.jpg

But notice who's holding the MVP trophy in this one. Shaq can't win without Kobe feeding him the ball indeed.


The man, the alpha, the big dog, makes no difference.

Shaq still has no rings or finals wins before Kobe.

That is not a coincidence.

http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20100618&t=2&i=132951594&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=img-2010-06-18T125456Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_India-494190-2

You know what this is?

Its the second finals MVP for a guy who wasn't supposed to win even one without Shaq. To makes things even worse for you, Kobe didn't need two other all stars on his team to do it either.

Kobe>Shaq>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wade

[The Iron Fist]

I'm about to hit up the OTC and make a tribute thread to the GOAT superhero:

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/grayson3.jpg

Da GAWD :bowdown:
People are already praising lebron. Calm down.

[kennethgriffin]

OP is on a mission today :applause: :applause: :applause: looks like he's just getting started

griff my man what's your top 10 list look like?


#1A Jordan
#1B Russell

#3 Kareem
#4 Wilt
#5 Magic

#6A Kobe
#6B Bird

#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem

[Kobr]

Would these same Kobetards be saying Pippen > Jordan if Scottie would have won a 7th ring with the rockets?

If you're referring to anyone saying that Kobe > Jordan, they're obviously either trolling or just stupid. That should be clear to everyone by now.

If you're referring to people saying that Kobe > Shaq, the difference between Jordan and Pippen is a lot greater than the difference between Kobe and Shaq. If Jordan wasn't the generally-accepted GOAT and if Pippen had led his Rockets/Blazers team to B2B titles, I'm sure there would be people saying that Pippen is in the same caliber as Jordan or higher.

[Cali Syndicate]

I don't know what's the big deal...it's common knowledge that Kobe's better than Hakeem.

Just look at his accomplishments if we cut his career in half.

In what regard? Career? Than probably so. As a player? I'm sure most if not all GM's would rather build around Hakeem over Kobe. There was a poll where GM's picked Dwight over Kobe as a franchise player. Hakeem is undoubtedly far better than Dwight.

All-time leader in blocks
Top ten in career steals, ahead of Kobe mind you and he's a big man
Top ten in career points

Kobe might be the all-time points leader when he's all finished but he's also going to be the player with the most career missed shots which puts his points total in context.

[AlonzoGOAT]

LOL

[AlonzoGOAT]

People are already praising lebron. Calm down.

agreed even mitch said LeBron was better then kobe and that was in 2009 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Would these same Kobetards be saying Pippen > Jordan if Scottie would have won a 7th ring with the rockets?

if pippen had the better average than jordan ( ala kobe with shaq ) ( I.E. 30-35ppg career averages since kobes 25ppg is better than shaqs ) and then won as many mvps as mike after he left MJ ( 5 compared to kobe matching shaqs 1 ) and 2 titles as lead dog on the rockets without anyone better than a gasol as his 2nd man... while still competing at an insanely high level even after jordan retired... ultimately passing mj in 1st team all nba's ( like kobe passed shaq ) and 1st team all defenses ( shaq never won any... so pippen would have like 18 all defensive 1st teams since youd have to make pippen have that many more )... and if pippen dropped 81 and had more 20,30,40,50,60 pt games than mj and did all that and more...


then yes... some would argue he over MJ

pippen would have a theoretical
8-9 championships
2-3 finals mvps
5 season mvps
35/5/5 career average
81 point game
10 first team all nba's
18 first team all defenses


yea theoretical hypothetical uncommon dumb what ifs are the way this thread should go...




I SWEAR TO GOD... SOME IDIOTS ON HERE HAVE NO CLUE WHEN IT COMES TO CONTEXT. ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE. IDIOTS.. NO WONDER I QUIT POSTING HERE FOR SO GOD DAMN LONG
:facepalm

[KyrieTheFuture]

I don't understand why this is so important to some of you. If you finally convince people to agree with you (you won't) what then? Do you think Kobe has a sudden surge of mental activity alerting him to the fact that people think he's better than one more player in the history of the NBA? GOAT lists matter way too much here.

[joeyjoejoe]

Lol at ppl saying hes better then hakeem and shaq, mayb longevity but pure impact on a game gtfo kobe=monta

[kennethgriffin]

Lol at ppl saying hes better then hakeem and shaq, mayb longevity but pure impact on a game gtfo kobe=monta


again

if peak year impact was the measure for all time greatness... jordan wouldnt even be top 5

quit changing criterias to fit people other than kobe... they dont go with the way everything else is judged


if you look at shaqs best year or 2... sure he has more impact... 2000 and 2001 are hard to beat

but guess what?

they beat every god damn year michael jordan ever had to... so stfu already about that crap


going by that impact peak mentality

all time

#1 WILT CHAMBERLAIN 50 god damn PPG... 25 god damn RPG
#2 OSCAR ROBERTSON... TRIP EL DO BUL
#3 ELGIN BAY FU*GIN LOR WIT 30PPG 20RPG
#4 RUSSWELL MEXICALY BILLFORT MC#6 WITH 20/20/ n 10 theoretical blocks FUGIN YOU ALL UP
#5 Shaqs 30/12/4... i dunno... hakeems 25/15/3.... i dunno

but it aint HEMJAY DAGODLY HAIR HORDAN

LOL agendas... gotta love em:yaohappy:

[Cali Syndicate]

Lol at ppl saying hes better then hakeem and shaq, mayb longevity but pure impact on a game gtfo kobe=monta

Kobe was an all NBA perimeter defender. Monta not so much. If Monta got superstar calls, he could've been 30 point scorer though.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

again

if peak year impact was the measure for all time greatness... jordan wouldnt even be top 5

quit changing criterias to fit people other than kobe... they dont go with the way everything else is judged


if you look at shaqs best year or 2... sure he has more impact... 2000 and 2001 are hard to beat

but guess what?

they beat every god damn year michael jordan ever had to... so stfu already about that crap


going by that impact peak mentality

all time

#1 WILT CHAMBERLAIN 50 god damn PPG... 25 god damn RPG
#2 OSCAR ROBERTSON... TRIP EL DO BUL
#3 ELGIN BAY FU*GIN LOR WIT 30PPG 20RPG
#4 RUSSWELL MEXICALY BILLFORT MC#6 WITH 20/20/ n 10 theoretical blocks FUGIN YOU ALL UP
#5 Shaqs 30/12/4... i dunno... hakeems 25/15/3.... i dunno

but it aint HEMJAY DAGODLY HAIR HORDAN

LOL agendas... gotta love em:yaohappy:
the key is to quickly pick out the retards, some of whom are in this thread, and then simply ignore them.
there are other good posters around....not many, but some.

[Heavincent]

Who was more dominant and productive in their championship wins, Kobe or Shaq? Put your homerism aside and answer that.

And regardless of Shaq not winning championships during the Jordan era and against the great Olajuwon, doesn't change the fact that he was the best player on the team. Kobe spent the first half of his career as a side kick, but we're over here trying to put him in the top 5? No love for Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek in the top 5? :confusedshrug:



Now this is flawed logic if I ever saw it :oldlol:

3 of Kobe's rings came courtesy of Shaq's finals MVP worthy dominance, while Kobe's remaining 2 came where many thought Gasol should've gotten MVP. 6-23 in a deciding game 7? C'mon son. By this logic, explain to me why Kobe should be ranked higher than John Havlicek on the all time lists?

First off, Kobe was a sidekick for only 1 of his rings. Sorry, but a guy that averages 29/6/6 is not a sidekick. Not the best player on the team, but he was still a top 3 player in the league .

Second off, lol at you thinking Gasol even has a case for FMVP in 2010. He doesn't...at all. Kobe was obviously the best player on the team by far throughout the entire season. Anyone that says otherwise is delusional.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

First off, Kobe was a sidekick for only 1 of his rings. Sorry, but a guy that averages 29/6/6 is not a sidekick. Not the best player on the team, but he was still a top 3 player in the league .

Second off, lol at you thinking Gasol even has a case for FMVP in 2010. He doesn't...at all. Kobe was obviously the best player on the team by far throughout the entire season. Anyone that says otherwise is delusional.
dude, wtf!
dont be so easily trolled. Any knucklehead who suggests shit like Gasol for MVP or Kobe second fiddle is either a troll or just fcuking stupid. So dont bother with that poster.
It is obvious that DonDadda is just a dumbfcuk

[KyrieTheFuture]

First off, Kobe was a sidekick for only 1 of his rings. Sorry, but a guy that averages 29/6/6 is not a sidekick. Not the best player on the team, but he was still a top 3 player in the league .

Second off, lol at you thinking Gasol even has a case for FMVP in 2010. He doesn't...at all. Kobe was obviously the best player on the team by far throughout the entire season. Anyone that says otherwise is delusional.

You could have just misworded this but this wasn't a regular season MVP...just bustin your balls

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe is the 9th or 10th (probably 10th) greatest player of all-time. He can't be ranked any higher than 7th or 8th.

Kobe based on his talent and skillset should have been a top 5 player of all-time though but his horrendous shot selection and his pure narcissism and stubbornness kept him from being top 5 though. Ultimately what made Kobe great is also what kept him from being as great as he could have been.

[Asukal]

Kobe is the 9th or 10th (probably 10th) greatest player of all-time. He can't be ranked any higher than 7th or 8th.

Kobe based on his talent and skillset should have been a top 5 player of all-time though but his horrendous shot selection and his pure narcissism and stubbornness kept him from being top 5 though. Ultimately what made Kobe great is also what kept him from being as great as he could have been.

Bolded is what makes Kobe Kobe. :confusedshrug:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Kobe is the 9th or 10th (probably 10th) greatest player of all-time. He can't be ranked any higher than 7th or 8th.

Kobe based on his talent and skillset should have been a top 5 player of all-time though but his horrendous shot selection and his pure narcissism and stubbornness kept him from being top 5 though. Ultimately what made Kobe great is also what kept him from being as great as he could have been.

:oldlol: talk about hyperbole

You guys talk about him like he's a Rasheed Wallace or Tracy McGrady or some shit. Dude has done what very few (and some, none) have done in the NBA.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is the 9th or 10th (probably 10th) greatest player of all-time. He can't be ranked any higher than 7th or 8th.

Kobe based on his talent and skillset should have been a top 5 player of all-time though but his horrendous shot selection and his pure narcissism and stubbornness kept him from being top 5 though. Ultimately what made Kobe great is also what kept him from being as great as he could have been.

his so called "bad qualities" are what made him great

his pure narcissism and stubbornness is what hept him from being a scared little b*tch that woulda made him a shy, passive scared little choker like someone we all know

lebrons just now getting that kobe mentality of "who cares i'l do what i want without a care for what people say" and "who cares if i miss... i cant make it if i dont shoot it" and "yea i'l take the criticism and not shy away from the ball on the biggest stage... i cant succeed unless i take a chance at failing"


kobe has what he has because he wasnt scared... not of losing a bit on his fg% or his game winner % to make per lists and have espn ride his d***

kobe never cared about any of that... like stephen A smith always said... i'l put my money on the guy who can miss 10 straight and still shoot the 11th like its just another shot and still think he can make it when it counts

thats what makes kobe great

[KyrieTheFuture]

If Kobe had better shot selection things could have domino affected him into becoming the GOAT

[StateOfMind12]

Bolded is what makes Kobe Kobe. :confusedshrug:
Yes I know, read the last line of that paragraph.


:oldlol: talk about hyperbole

You guys talk about him like he's a Rasheed Wallace or Tracy McGrady or some shit. Dude has done what very few (and some, none) have done in the NBA.
Kobe has and had bad shot selection (arguably the worst) his entire career. I have no clue how anybody could deny this. He takes dumb shots and type of shots that would get almost any other NBA player benched. Kobe cares way too much about style points and the aesthetics of how he scores. If he just did like the 2-3 of the same moves every time, he would have been a more efficient scorer.

[The Iron Fist]

Yes I know, read the last line of that paragraph.


Kobe has and had bad shot selection (arguably the worst) his entire career. I have no clue how anybody could deny this. He takes dumb shots and type of shots that would get almost any other NBA player benched. Kobe cares way too much about style points and the aesthetics of how he scores. If he just did like the 2-3 of the same moves every time, he would have been a more efficient scorer.
Efficiency, schmefficiency.

Only geeks care about that shit.

The man is a five time champ.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Yes I know, read the last line of that paragraph.


Kobe has and had bad shot selection (arguably the worst) his entire career. I have no clue how anybody could deny this. He takes dumb shots and type of shots that would get almost any other NBA player benched. Kobe cares way too much about style points and the aesthetics of how he scores. If he just did like the 2-3 of the same moves every time, he would have been a more efficient scorer.

Again, hyperbole. Firstly, all scorers take bad shots. But what you don't get is, the shots you think are tough (fadeaways, off balance) are makeable for him. Is Dirk shooting a one legged, off balance fadeaway a bad shot? No because he's mastered that. I mean you act like he's taking blind turnaround, one handed shots all day. He just takes a lot of shots so he's prone to force things sometimes. Hell, even Michael was the same way. But even then, he's doubled so much that true 1 on 1 opportunities are rare for him.

Secondly, you are thinking way too deeply into it if you think Kobe has something in his mind that (especially at this point in his career) he cares about being flashy. He virtually does the same 2-3 moves every time.

- 1 or 2 dribble pull up
- Turnaround fadeaway
- Triple threat jumper/3 pointer

Outside of out the occasional layup opportunity those are the shots he takes most which are shots he's been taking and practicing for over a decade.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2012/03/02/ROZo9kgc.jpg
After 3 quarters

Knicks - 106
Wilt - 69

[RazorBaLade]

If Kobe had better shot selection things could have domino affected him into becoming the GOAT

And I'd have probably missed seeing 100-200 shots being taken and MADE that had absolutely no business even being attempted in a video game

as a fan of just a viewer and not like his family member who might care about legacy, I'll take that any day.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Efficiency, schmefficiency.

Only geeks care about that shit.

The man is a five time champ.

Kobe shot 38% in the 2004 Finals vs Detroit. Are you saying he didn't cost the Lakers another championship?

[Dictator]

but there is a case


ranking compared to the top 25 players of all-time
Championships (5) - 5th, tied with Johnson
Finals MVPs (2) - 5th, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Olajuwon
MVPs (1) - 11th, tied with O'Neal, Robertson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Cousy
Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting (10) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Chamberlain
All-NBA Teams (14) - 2nd, tied with O'Neal, Malone
All-Defensive Teams (12) - 2nd, tied with Garnett
All-Star Teams (14) - 3rd, tied with Jordan, Garnett, Malone, West
All-NBA First Teams (10) - 2nd, tied with Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, West, Baylor, Pettit, Cousy
Scoring Titles (2) - 3rd, tied with Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal
Points (29,484) - 5th
Playoff Points (5,640) - 3rd
5th most career points in NBA History
3rd most career points in NBA Hstory
2nd most 60pt games in NBA History
3rd most 50pt games in NBA History
3rd most 40pt games in NBA History
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA History
4th most 40pt playoff games in NBA History



1st title average - 23/5/5 ( 21/5/5 playoffs )
2nd title average - 28/5/5 ( 30/5/5 playoffs )
3rd title average - 25/5/5 ( 27/5/5 playoffs )

then without shaq 2 of the most dominant playoff runs with only pau gasol as his next best player

30-5-6 on 56 TS% - 2009 Playoffs
34-6-6 on 63 TS% - 2009 WCF
32-6-7 on 53 TS% - 2009 Finals
29-6-6 on 57 TS% - 2010 Playoffs
34-7-8 on 68 TS% - 2010 WCF
29-8-4 on 53 TS% - 2010 Finals



player of the decade by TNT, SPORTING NEWS, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED



no case? WTF

Kobe's better overall than Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem. Get mad.

Also a career fg% of 45 isn't bad just average.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe shot 38% in the 2004 Finals vs Detroit. Are you saying he didn't cost the Lakers another championship?

Kobe did not do much to help them win (besides hitting one of the clutchest shots possible) but malone was a much bigger factor in the loss, let alone that simply chemistry issues from a duo running it course against the best defensive tema ever...... It was a borderline unwinnable series.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe shot 38% in the 2004 Finals vs Detroit. Are you saying he didn't cost the Lakers another championship?
1 series, after winning 3 titles before and 2 titles after

[Legends66NBA7]

Also a career fg% of 45 isn't bad just average.

Well, I won't point out why this is wrong about Kobe being closer to a Top 5 player, but whatever.

[DonDadda59]

Also a career fg% of 45 isn't bad just average.

Ah yes, 'average'... that's definitely the first adjective one thinks of when describing the 5 absolute best players in a game's history... AVERAGE :oldlol:

[StateOfMind12]

Firstly, all scorers take bad shots. But what you don't get is, the shots you think are tough (fadeaways, off balance) are makeable for him.
I know they're makeable but they aren't efficient. There is a difference. I couldn't careless how a player scores, I care about how often he can score and how many shots/possessions he needs to score.



Is Dirk shooting a one legged, off balance fadeaway a bad shot? No because he's mastered that.
That is an efficient shot to him which is different and Dirk doesn't have many different moves other than that.


I mean you act like he's taking blind turnaround, one handed shots all day. He just takes a lot of shots so he's prone to force things sometimes. Hell, even Michael was the same way. But even then, he's doubled so much that true 1 on 1 opportunities are rare for him.

Secondly, you are thinking way too deeply into it if you think Kobe has something in his mind that (especially at this point in his career) he cares about being flashy. He virtually does the same 2-3 moves every time.

- 1 or 2 dribble pull up
- Turnaround fadeaway
- Triple threat jumper/3 pointer
Kobe took more jump shots than he should. Kobe was a player that could pretty much get to the basket at will especially when you factor in the rules he played in (no hand-check), yet defenders defended them for his jump shot instead because they knew that Kobe preferred and would go to that rather than simply go to the rim. Instead of attacking to the rim, Kobe routinely took shots that would get most players benched.

The only player that I can think of that was defended more tightly and as close as Kobe was Dirk.

All I'm saying is Kobe could have been much more efficient if he was much smarter with his shot selection. If he attacked the basket more, he would have created himself higher percentage shots and he would have also made the defender step away and sag off a little more to give his jumper more air space.

It's not a coincidence that most great perimeter scorers are 50% shooters (FG%). I don't know why Kobe is just some exception or why Kobe doesn't apply.

[Legends66NBA7]

Ah yes, 'average'... that's definitely the first adjective one thinks of when describing the 5 absolute best players in a game's history... AVERAGE :oldlol:

And there it is.

:oldlol:

[Doranku]

Yes I know, read the last line of that paragraph.


Kobe has and had bad shot selection (arguably the worst) his entire career. I have no clue how anybody could deny this. He takes dumb shots and type of shots that would get almost any other NBA player benched. Kobe cares way too much about style points and the aesthetics of how he scores. If he just did like the 2-3 of the same moves every time, he would have been a more efficient scorer.

One of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. You think Kobe is out there thinking, "oh, I can't take this open lane for a layup, that'd look too easy. I'll just shoot a fadeaway instead"? His problem is that he doesn't trust his teammates and he thinks he's Superman who can make any shot.

Like you said, his greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. But to say that he is out there going for style points is just ridiculous. The dude wants to win above all. He doesn't give a shit if his jumpers are pretty. :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe is the 7th greatest player ever. 7 is closer to 5 than it is to 10, so yes he is closer to being a top 5 player ever. 1 more championship with finals mvp would bump off Shaq (6) and Bird (5) placing Kobe 5th, top 5.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Also a career fg% of 45 isn't bad just average.

ACTUALLY, its much BETTER than average. MUCH.
I'm talking about for shooting guards who average over 20ppg.
Sure, players can shoot 50% when they are not the focal point of defensive strategies.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I know they're makeable but they aren't efficient. There is a difference. I couldn't careless how a player scores, I care about how often he can score and how many shots/possessions he needs to score.

Outside of this past season though, Kobe hasn't really been inefficient.


Instead of attacking to the rim, Kobe routinely took shots that would get most players benched.

No the reason Kobe was under fire earlier in his career was more of when he would take shots vs. the kinds of shots he was taking. He just didn't know when to attack and when to facilitate. He was always in shoot first mode. But that's how it is with mostly all great scorers. Again, you're really exaggerating. You're talking as if Kobe was shooting half court shots or something :oldlol:


All I'm saying is Kobe could have been much more efficient if he was much smarter with his shot selection. If he attacked the basket more, he would have created himself higher percentage shots and he would have also made the defender step away and sag off a little more to give his jumper more air space.

But here's what I'm saying, he's a first ballot HOF and one of the greatest ever shooting 45-46%. You think shooting 2-3% higher would have propped him up any higher than he is now? Besides, you have to remember that Kobe can get his shot off and hit contested jumpers. With team's focusing more on help defense and with him losing athleticism you can't always just get to the rim. Having a good pull up is key. That's why Kobe's mastered it. I think he should shoot less 3's and isolations though if possible. I'll give you that.


It's not a coincidence that most great perimeter scorers are 50% shooters (FG%). I don't know why Kobe is just some exception or why Kobe doesn't apply.

Outside of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade for a few seasons and Kevin Durant this season, how many of the top 5 scorers in the NBA now or the past 5 years have shot 50% or higher? When did shooting 50% become the benchmark for efficiency for a guard in today's game? Shooting 45-48% for a perimeter player in this day and age is great.

[StateOfMind12]

Outside of this past season though, Kobe hasn't really been inefficient.
In terms of TS% and overall scoring, no but in terms of FG%, eFG%, he has been just average which is not really acceptable especially when you are being talked as a top 5 player of all-time as DonDadda said.



But here's what I'm saying, he's a first ballot HOF and one of the greatest ever shooting 45-46%. You think shooting 2-3% higher would have propped him up any higher than he is now?
I think Kobe shooting in the 47-52% range would make him in the legitimate discussion for a top 5 player of all-time.

Like I said, Kobe only has himself to blame for not being a top 5 player of all-time.

I'm not saying Kobe sucks or anything like that because he obviously doesn't, he's easily a first ballot HOFer and a top 10 player of all-time (for now). I'm just saying that Kobe did NOT fulfill every inch of his potential even though you would think he did.

If Kobe played like the way I saw him play in the 2008 WCF vs. the Spurs for most of his career then there is no question he would have been a top 5 player of all-time. He took smart and quality shots in that series, he attacked the basket at will and got easy layups, he trusted his teammates, etc.

I believe he averaged like 30 ppg with 50% shooting in that series and a TS% of 60+%. Kobe should have been this good for most of his career and he could have been but he wasn't.



Outside of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade for a few seasons and Kevin Durant this season, how many of the top 5 scorers in the NBA now or the past 5 years have shot 50% or higher? When did shooting 50% become the benchmark for efficiency for a guard in today's game? Shooting 45-48% for a perimeter player in this day and age is great.
I wouldn't call that great, I would call it average to above average, maybe good.

44-46% is average
47-49% is above average
50%+ is good.

That's how I would rank it and you can check it out and compare it to the league average if you want. I remember looking it up and it stated that 45% was the average FG% this season and for the past like 5-6 seasons.

[AlonzoGOAT]

After 3 quarters

Knicks - 106
Wilt - 69


Your point?

Craptors 85

kobe 53

[Deuce Bigalow]

Your point?

Craptors 85

kobe 53
Kobe - 62

Mavs - 61

[Dictator]

Ah yes, 'average'... that's definitely the first adjective one thinks of when describing the 5 absolute best players in a game's history... AVERAGE :oldlol:

Did I describe Kobe's overall game or status? No.
Are you reaching at nothing? Yes.

No Kobe is the not top 5.
Yes Kobe is closer to a top 5 player alltime.

:facepalm

Yes Kobe is atleast top 10 alltime and better than Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem.

No Kobe's fg% is not bad just because he missed one shot from 50% most of his career.

Now please, refrain from trolling or atleast be good at it.

[BrickingStar]

Did I describe Kobe's overall game or status? No.
Are you reaching at nothing? Yes.

No Kobe is the not top 5.
Yes Kobe is closer to a top 5 player alltime.

:facepalm

Yes Kobe is atleast top 10 alltime and better than Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem.

No Kobe's fg% is not bad just because he missed one shot from 50% most of his career.

Now please, refrain from trolling or atleast be good at it.


Lmao better then shaq and duncan?
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z401/kstewrulz/oprah.gif

GTFO your a brainwashed homer He's 8th AT MOST in the goat list

[tpols]

It's so funny how everything always comes down to FG.:oldlol: Forget his ppg, apg, rpg, TS, eFG, etc. Lets just talk about FG!

2 Finals runs as a youngin with ~28+/6+/6+

3 straight Finals runs with MJ like numbers ~30+/5+/5+

4 Rings with overall ~29/6/6 as an all league SG defender

Nah fvck that.. lets see that FGGG!!

[swag2011]

In most people's top 10 lists, the only 2 shooting guards in there are Michael and Kobe. MJ is a career 50% shooter i believe? and Kobe is 45%.

When if you compare Kobe's FG% to other great shooting guards he's not really that far off imo.

Jerry West is 47%
Ray Allen is 45% and is considered one of, if not the best shooters EVER.
Dwayne Wade is 48%
Clyde Drexler 47%
Sam Jones 45%
John Havlicek 43%
Reggie Miller 47%

I think with Nash there, he's probably going to have one of his better seasons FG% wise. He's a fantastic catch and shoot type player, and he actually can't wait to just catch and shoot.



It's so funny how everything always comes down to FG.:oldlol: Forget his ppg, apg, rpg, TS, eFG, etc. Lets just talk about FG!

2 Finals runs as a youngin with ~28+/6+/6+

3 straight Finals runs with MJ like numbers ~30+/5+/5+

4 Rings with overall ~29/6/6 as an all league SG defender

Nah fvck that.. lets see that FGGG!!

LMAO don't forget about that PER!!!!!!!!!

[I LUV KOBE]

Even if you erace his 1st 8 seasons and 1st 8 playoffs with shaq

minus 3 championships
minus the all nba awards
minus the all defensive awards
minus the 30,40,50 point games
minus the all-star mvp
minus the nba records


kobe bryant from 2005 to 2012 still has a better career than #9 all time ranked hakeem Olajuwon

some even rank hakeem higher


hakeem in his entire life:

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold
9 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
0 third place mvp


kobe bryant from 2005-2012

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 allstar mvps
7 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold ( about to be 2 )
12 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
4 third place mvp
more 40,50,60,80 point games
better average
better playoff average



so even if kobe bryant cut 8 out of his 16 years... EXACTLY HALF of his career ( which were VERRY successfull... )

kobe still comes out on top and is easly a top 10 all time player and above hakeem olajuwon

:biggums:
This are some of the reason why he deserved top 5 easily.. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Kobr]

I wouldn't call that great, I would call it average to above average, maybe good.

44-46% is average
47-49% is above average
50%+ is good.

That's how I would rank it and you can check it out and compare it to the league average if you want. I remember looking it up and it stated that 45% was the average FG% this season and for the past like 5-6 seasons.

45%+ for an elite SG is far better than average. Look at the seasons of guards who were the leading scorers since Jordan:

98-99 Iverson: 26.8 PPG on 41.2%
00-01 Iverson: 31.1 PPG on 42.0%
01-02 Iverson: 31.4 PPG on 39.8%
02-03 McGrady: 32.1 PPG on 45.7%
03-04 McGrady: 28.0 PPG on 41.7%
04-05 Iverson: 30.7 PPG on 42.4%
05-06 Kobe: 35.4 PPG on 45.0%
06-07 Kobe: 31.6 PPG on 46.3%
08-09 Wade: 30.2 PPG on 49.1%

Average: 30.8 PPG on 43.7%

[9erempiree]

45%+ for an elite SG is far better than average. Look at the seasons of guards who were the leading scorers since Jordan:

98-99 Iverson: 26.8 PPG on 41.2%
00-01 Iverson: 31.1 PPG on 42.0%
01-02 Iverson: 31.4 PPG on 39.8%
02-03 McGrady: 32.1 PPG on 45.7%
03-04 McGrady: 28.0 PPG on 41.7%
04-05 Iverson: 30.7 PPG on 42.4%
05-06 Kobe: 35.4 PPG on 45.0%
06-07 Kobe: 31.6 PPG on 46.3%
08-09 Wade: 30.2 PPG on 49.1%

Average: 30.8 PPG on 43.7%

thank you for informing the kids on here.

You have to remember, it's summer, school will be starting in a month so they will no longer be here.

[BrickingStar]

In most people's top 10 lists, the only 2 shooting guards in there are Michael and Kobe. MJ is a career 50% shooter i believe? and Kobe is 45%.

When if you compare Kobe's FG% to other great shooting guards he's not really that far off imo.

Jerry West is 47%
Ray Allen is 45% and is considered one of, if not the best shooters EVER.
Dwayne Wade is 48%
Clyde Drexler 47%
Sam Jones 45%
John Havlicek 43%
Reggie Miller 47%

I think with Nash there, he's probably going to have one of his better seasons FG% wise. He's a fantastic catch and shoot type player, and he actually can't wait to just catch and shoot.




LMAO don't forget about that PER!!!!!!!!!

Another reason why the goat is the goat. Dude shot 50% as an sg :bowdown: :bowdown:

[KG215]

So how many wins does Shaq have in the finals without Kobe getting him the ball again? How dominant was Shaq in the finals when Kobe wasn't there slashing and hitting jumpers along the way?


This is your only and go-to argument and it has to be one of the most flawed and dumbest arguments I've ever seen on here.

It's almost the same as Jordan haters repeatedly using the "how many rings did Jordan have before Kobe came along?" argument.

How about this: take Shaq out of the equation and put Kobe in the league as a rookie in 1992-1993. Does he win a ring or even make a Finals with the Magic? If you say yes, then you really are delusional.

The collective stupidity of ISH Kobe stans is mind blowing. Kobe's a top 10 player; most people would agree with that. But Kobe stans are trying to say he's closer to the top 5 and saying that's he's also without a doubt better than Shaq and Duncan when, at the very best, it's highly debatable.

[Riley Martin]

40-43% is average
44-47% is above average
48-49% is pretty damn good
50%+ is great

fixed

[StateOfMind12]

45%+ for an elite SG is far better than average. Look at the seasons of guards who were the leading scorers since Jordan:

98-99 Iverson: 26.8 PPG on 41.2%
00-01 Iverson: 31.1 PPG on 42.0%
01-02 Iverson: 31.4 PPG on 39.8%
02-03 McGrady: 32.1 PPG on 45.7%
03-04 McGrady: 28.0 PPG on 41.7%
04-05 Iverson: 30.7 PPG on 42.4%
05-06 Kobe: 35.4 PPG on 45.0%
06-07 Kobe: 31.6 PPG on 46.3%
08-09 Wade: 30.2 PPG on 49.1%

Average: 30.8 PPG on 43.7%
None of them except Wade are considered efficient and his FG% is much better than Kobe's so I don't know what your point is. Iverson is one of the most inefficient players ever so again this doesn't really prove much of a point.

[tpols]

None of them except Wade are considered efficient and his FG% is much better than Kobe's so I don't know what your point is. Iverson is one of the most inefficient players ever so again this doesn't really prove much of a point.
Iverson and McGrady were considered elite scorers despite their FG.. thats the point. Prime Iverson was an all time great perimeter scorer who only started recieving flak when message boards came out and morons hated on him for his boxscore statistics.

[Jacks3]

Prime Kobe and Wade have the exact same efficiency and Kobe does it on higher volume, yet Wade is considered a efficiency god and Kobe is a chucker.

Ridiculous.

I'll never understand why people use FG% instead of TS%.

[I LUV KOBE]

It's so funny how everything always comes down to FG.:oldlol: Forget his ppg, apg, rpg, TS, eFG, etc. Lets just talk about FG!

2 Finals runs as a youngin with ~28+/6+/6+

3 straight Finals runs with MJ like numbers ~30+/5+/5+

4 Rings with overall ~29/6/6 as an all league SG defender

Nah fvck that.. lets see that FGGG!!
Jordan and Lebrick stans when talking about Kobe "FG is all that matters." :lol

[StateOfMind12]

Prime Kobe and Wade have the exact same efficiency and Kobe does it on higher volume, yet Wade is considered a efficiency god and Kobe is a chucker.

Ridiculous.

I'll never understand why people use FG% instead of TS%.
This is a good point, in terms of TS% Kobe and Wade are actually identical and it is mainly because Wade isn't as good of a FT shooter or 3 point shooter as Kobe is.

Kobe's TS% could have been higher though in the likes of the 58-60% range though which would put him up there with the Bird's and Magic's which again would give him a legitimate discussion as a top 5 player of all-time unlike where he is right now. Kobe could have been much efficient in terms of FG%, eFG%, and TS%, not just FG%.


Iverson and McGrady were considered elite scorers despite their FG.. thats the point. Prime Iverson was an all time great perimeter scorer who only started recieving flak when message boards came out and morons hated on him for his boxscore statistics.
Nobody is questioning their volume scoring ability, just their efficiency which is what we are talking about.

[The Iron Fist]

This is your only and go-to argument and it has to be one of the most flawed and dumbest arguments I've ever seen on here.

It's almost the same as Jordan haters repeatedly using the "how many rings did Jordan have before Kobe came along?" argument.

How about this: take Shaq out of the equation and put Kobe in the league as a rookie in 1992-1993. Does he win a ring or even make a Finals with the Magic? If you say yes, then you really are delusional.

The collective stupidity of ISH Kobe stans is mind blowing. Kobe's a top 10 player; most people would agree with that. But Kobe stans are trying to say he's closer to the top 5 and saying that's he's also without a doubt better than Shaq and Duncan when, at the very best, it's highly debatable.

Its the only argument anyone needs.
So, once again, how many finals wins does Shaq have before Kobe?

Supposedly, he is the most dominant ever. I'm sure he has to have at least, 12. So go ahead, link me to every single one of them.

Kobe is closer to five than 10. Same amount of titles as Magic, more than Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Hakeem, West, Robertson and Wilt. When you factor in that he plays with less Hall of famers than Magic and Bird, then you'll recognize what stacked teams really are. Then, when you realize how many people said he couldn't be built around, much less win a title without Shaq, you'll see how impressive it really is.

This is the thing, you clowns want Kobe to win with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown all while discrediting anything he did. At the same time, you have no qualms putting Magic and Bird above him when they played with numerous hall of famers. Not just all stars, but hall of fame level talent. Magic, is similar to Duncan in that they both went to teams that were already contenders. Spurs tanked, Lakers got the pick because of a trade.

But give Kobe a Pau Gasol, and he has a stacked team.

How about this,

how many rings does Shaq win without Kobe Bryant?

btw, Kobe being better than those I mentioned is debatable. The only ones crying about it are Kobe haters. "NO HES NOT, LOOK AT HIS FG%"

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lmao better then shaq and duncan?
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z401/kstewrulz/oprah.gif

GTFO your a brainwashed homer He's 8th AT MOST in the goat list
Go back and watch the playoff series of Lakers vs Spurs the last decade and come back to me

And before you say "He had Shaq!" Kobe averaged more PPG than Shaq in the last 3 series together ('01 WCF, '02 WCSF, '04 WCSF) and won a playoff series without Shaq vs the Spurs in '08 WCF.

He was the best player on the court in 4 out of the last 5 times LA and San Antonio met ('01, '02, '04, '08). Even in '02 when Duncan had the better numbers, Kobe's clutch plays won them the lose and pivotal games, like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44 where he outscored the Spurs in the 4th quarter by himself and hit the gamewinner.

[KG215]

Its the only argument anyone needs.

Only in your twisted illogical mind.




Kobe is closer to five than 10. Same amount of titles as Magic, more than Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Hakeem, West, Robertson and Wilt. When you factor in that he plays with less Hall of famers than Magic and Bird, then you'll recognize what stacked teams really are. Then, when you realize how many people said he couldn't be built around, much less win a title without Shaq, you'll see how impressive it really is.
Another flawless and idiotic argument. Teams in general were stacked in the 80s compared to the 2000s. There were fewer teams and the salary cap rules were different. Teams today couldn't afford a roster with Bird, McHale, Parish, and Dennis Johnson. When you say stacked, you can't just say Kobe's teams weren't stacked because they aren't as stacked as teams from a different era. In his era, comparatively speaking, Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked in his championship years.


This is the thing, you clowns want Kobe to win with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown all while discrediting anything he did.
The only people saying he should've won Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, etc. is either a moron or a troll.



Magic, is similar to Duncan in that they both went to teams that were already contenders. Spurs tanked, Lakers got the pick because of a trade.
Duncan went to a team that was already a contender? How so? Robinson was on the back end of his career, though still very good, but the Spurs wouldn't have been considered serious championship contenders in 1999 if they had the same team as the season before wit no Duncan.



But give Kobe a Pau Gasol, and he has a stacked team.
Again, comparatively speaking, the Lakers were pretty stacked once they added Gasol. Odom was a very good third option and Bynum started to emerge. And even if you don't think Bynum was that good at the time, he along with Gasol gave the Lakers a very good frontcourt, with a ton of length making it hard for teams to score over their length inside.



how many rings does Shaq win without Kobe Bryant?

No matter how many times you say it or ask it, it's still incredibly flawed logic. Like I said, it's just as stupid as people asking/saying "how many rings did Jordan win without Pippen?" It doesn't matter. Jordan was the best player on those six championship teams just like Shaq was the best player on his three Laker championship teams.

[LakersReign]

its amazin how ppl dont actually compare a player wit how their skills impact the game.

oh i kno why, its cuz kobe would barely be top 20 if we used that criteria. hed be well below duncan, kg, dream etc and would also be behind barkley, nash, stockton, guys who r elite in more than 1 thing besides 'difficult shot o' meter' (chucking) an most of who play D much better than kobe ever did.

kobe stans should thank whatev they believe in that kobe played for the lakers cuz if he played for portland or sacramento or new orleans hed be rank somewher in between latrell sprewel n allen iverson.

luckily kupchak calls the shots n buss writes the checks, the fans hav there hero. the selfish guy wanna be traded, quit after mavs series, adjusted stats show he overrated, dont take charges, got shaq traded, phil jackson hate him, alienated pau, most overrated player all time.

kobe bryant.

http://gifsoup.com/view4/1140055/kobe-laughing-o.gif

[willds09]

kobe definitely iz top 5, and lebron iz like number 50 at best

[Dictator]

Only in your twisted illogical mind.



Another flawless and idiotic argument. Teams in general were stacked in the 80s than the 2000s and the salary cap rules were different. When you say stacked, you can't just say Kobe's teams weren't stacked because they aren't as stacked as teams from a different era. In his era, comparatively speaking, Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked in his championship years.


The only people saying he should've won Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, etc. is either a moron or a troll.



Duncan went to a team that was already a contender? How so? Robinson was on the back end of his career, though still very good, but the Spurs wouldn't have been considered serious championship contenders in 1999 if they had the same team as the season before wit no Duncan.



Again, comparatively speaking, the Lakers were pretty stacked once they added Gasol. Odom was a very good third option and Bynum started to emerge. And even if you don't think Bynum was that good at the time, he along with Gasol gave the Lakers a very good frontcourt, with a ton of length making it hard for teams to score over their length inside.



No matter how many times you say it or ask it, it's still incredibly flawed logic. Like I said, it's just as stupid as people asking/saying "how many rings did Jordan win without Pippen?" It doesn't matter. Jordan was the best player on those six championship teams just like Shaq was the best player on his three Laker championship teams.


So Kobe and Gasol is a stacked team......:biggums: :coleman:

[KG215]

So Kobe and Gasol is a stacked team......:biggums: :coleman:

Comparatively speaking, yes. Which teams in the NBA in 2008, 2009, and 2010 were noticeably better and more talented on paper? If you don't want to call it stacked, fine. They were still considered one of the two best teams in the NBA.

[Leviathon1121]

So Kobe and Gasol is a stacked team......:biggums: :coleman:

In a league void of quality centers, having Gasol and Bynum on the same team with a Kobe Bryant and Odom is indeed stacked.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Teams in general were stacked in the 80s compared to the 2000s.

Celtics: KG, PP, Ray Ray, Rondo?
Suns: Joe Johnson, Nash, Matrix, Amare?
Now the Heat.

Todays teams are not much different. In the 80s, there were only a handful of teams that were "stacked" and, guess what, they won the championships.

Much depends on how you define "stacked".

[Dictator]

In a league void of quality centers, having Gasol and Bynum on the same team with a Kobe Bryant and Odom is indeed stacked.

Hell if that's stacked going by your logic. The celtics, hawks, magic, nuggets, clippers, knicks, Thunder, are all stacked.

Bynum was pretty much irrelevant during the last 2 titles.

[KG215]

Celtics: KG, PP, Ray Ray, Rondo?
Suns: Joe Johnson, Nash, Matrix, Amare?
Now the Heat.

Todays teams are not much different. In the 80s, there were only a handful of teams that were "stacked" and, guess what, they won the championships.

Much depends on how you define "stacked".

Again, you have to look at the eras and compare "stacked" teams to other "stacked" teams of that time. Like I said, in the 80s there were fewer teams and you could afford a roster with Bird, McHale, Parish, and Johnson or Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, etc. No one could afford that roster today.

The Celtics aren't affording a prime KG, Pierce, Allen, and Rondo. Rondo was on his rookie contract from 2008-2010 and KG, Pierce, and Allen could've made more on a different team as "the man". Those Suns teams were somewhat stacked but I don't think Joe Johnson was that expensive as he emerged a few seasons into his Suns career. The Heat are stacked simply because they have the best player in the world, another top 5-10 player, and another top 15-20 player. But their supporting cast, on paper, was pretty bad until some of them got hot in the Finals. And now they've got old vets latching on for the ride.

And for the 80s teams you're focusing only on the teams like the Lakers and Celtics who won most of the championships. There were other teams that didn't win rings in the 80s that would be considered stacked in today's NBA.

[AirTupac]

People are actually including Bynum? This guy barely touched the court before :oldlol:

[RRR3]

:oldlol: talk about hyperbole

You guys talk about him like he's a Rasheed Wallace or Tracy McGrady or some shit. Dude has done what very few (and some, none) have done in the NBA.
Orlando T-Mac and Kobe were practically the same damn player, except T-Mac was much cooler :pimp:

[RRR3]

After 3 quarters

Knicks - 106
Wilt - 69
31 in the 4th quarter :bowdown: :bowdown:
Wilt da CLUTCH GAWD! :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Heavincent]

People are actually including Bynum? This guy barely touched the court before :oldlol:

I always shake my head when Bynum is brought up in these conversations. He was on about the same level as Udonis Haslem back then :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

I always shake my head when Bynum is brought up in these conversations. He was on about the same level as Udonis Haslem back then :oldlol:


6ppg and 7ppg for his 2 laker titles ( sitting 4th quarter for odom and gasol front court )


BEAST :bowdown:

:kobe:

[Legends66NBA7]

Question for you OP:

Where do you rank Kobe as a scorer ? Regular Season ? Playoffs ?

[Deuce Bigalow]

"Well, he's been doing it for 16 years in the NBA and in those 16 years the accomplishments are incredible. I mean, they're worthy of a top-five player in the history of the game, really,"
- U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski

http://aol.sportingnews.com/olympics/story/2012-07-22/kobe-bryant-team-usa-london-olympics-2012-lebron-james-kevin-durant

[kennethgriffin]

"Well, he's been doing it for 16 years in the NBA and in those 16 years the accomplishments are incredible. I mean, they're worthy of a top-five player in the history of the game, really,"
- U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski

http://aol.sportingnews.com/olympics/story/2012-07-22/kobe-bryant-team-usa-london-olympics-2012-lebron-james-kevin-durant


burns slow like ETHER

[The Iron Fist]

"Well, he's been doing it for 16 years in the NBA and in those 16 years the accomplishments are incredible. I mean, they're worthy of a top-five player in the history of the game, really,"
- U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski

http://aol.sportingnews.com/olympics/story/2012-07-22/kobe-bryant-team-usa-london-olympics-2012-lebron-james-kevin-durant
Just the other day this guy said lebron was the best today and his word was revered.


Now watch how he gets slammed from all angles.

[RonArtestsBalls]

I would say the majority of people who would pick Kobe over Hakeem when building a team are probably under the age of 18.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Lebron James from 2005-2012

1 title
1 finals mvps
3 season mvp
2 allstar mvps
6 first team all nba's
2 second team all nba's
4 first team all defense's
1 second place finish in DPOY
1 olympic gold ( about to be 2 )
20 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
1 third place mvp
Top 6 in mvp voting in all 8 years
better average
Essentially the same playoff average
More efficient

So is Lebron at least a top 10 player then?

[ripthekik]

Came here just to post this:

http://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/yoFSEkRMXLar0jwgknwijzQi4.jpg

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[b1imtf]

Came here just to post this:

http://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/yoFSEkRMXLar0jwgknwijzQi4.jpg

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:eek:

[NBASTATMAN]

Even if you erace his 1st 8 seasons and 1st 8 playoffs with shaq

minus 3 championships
minus the all nba awards
minus the all defensive awards
minus the 30,40,50 point games
minus the all-star mvp
minus the nba records


kobe bryant from 2005 to 2012 still has a better career than #9 all time ranked hakeem Olajuwon

some even rank hakeem higher


hakeem in his entire life:

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold
9 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
0 third place mvp


kobe bryant from 2005-2012

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 allstar mvps
7 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
1 olympic gold ( about to be 2 )
12 player of the month awards
1 second place mvp
4 third place mvp
more 40,50,60,80 point games
better average
better playoff average



so even if kobe bryant cut 8 out of his 16 years... EXACTLY HALF of his career ( which were VERRY successfull... )

kobe still comes out on top and is easly a top 10 all time player and above hakeem olajuwon

:biggums:


On an all time list Kobe is higher than Hakeem but Hakeems' peak is better than Kobe's...