3 more teams I wish to call attention to while possibly offending the youth of ISH.

[Kblaze8855]

Doing 20 teams as you likely dont remember. First bunch has been done to make a point ill go into shortly....


2 previous ones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzHmZEDpiTg

^
Warriors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhAnQTM9Kmg
^
Blazers


Now...





80s Bucks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5rUaPrgn8




The Bucks im reasonably sure had the 3rd best record of the 80s after the Lakers and Celtics. They were between 50 and 60 wins for 7 yearsi n a row and always had a great frontcourt, good guards, wellrounded swingmen and good coaching back before Don Nelsons teams stopped playing defense. They are I believe the only team to sweep a Bird led Celtics team and they not the Pistons were young Bulls biggest rival to me. At least for a while.

Central division basketball at the time was always rugged and physical and everyone hated everyone else. And the Bucks always seemed to slow Jordan and beat up our usual soft ass supporting cast.

Just some rugged grease in the beard ass dudes playing hard. Nobody seems to remember them or care they existed because they never made the finals but...Bulls fans over 25 should remember we had beef with the Bucks well into the 90s over the 80s abuse.

Oh and...the floater dropping white guy you have likely never seen before? Brian Winters. Mj called him the best shooter he had ever seen at one point.










Late 80s Sonics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwZTS9t-zw

One of those teams that made it to the WCF to be served up to the Lakers once or twice.

On the Sonics you had:

Dale Ellis who could shoot his ass off. not shoot for his era. he could shoot at an all time elite level period. dude shot over 40% for his career from 3 and he made more than Jeff Hornacek and Chris Mullin combined. so he wasnt just taking 1 open shot a week. There were times he might shoot 50-55% from 3 while scoring 28ppg for a matter of months.

Xavier wasnt what id call a superstar but he was rugged. He could play both ends, he could rebound a bit, pass, and finish.

Tom Chambers you should know about. Cottons system in Phoenix as well as Kevin Johnson made him more famous but he was already an all star MVP in seattle.

Michael Cage I threw in because I kinda liked him even though he wasnt with all 3 of the above players at once(Chambers was gone).

Also had Derrick Mckey who you may remember as a stopper for the Pacers. Not much footage of him around but he was more than solid. All d team member at least once.

Not what id call a great team. But a talented one? Yes.










And then the Cavs in the Mark Price era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaPX7dWpV-I


I did a mark price video once so I decided to focus on the less known guys from that team.

Depending on the year they might have Ron Harper(very poor mans Jordan), Daugherty(possibly the best center in the league today considering his offensive edge on Dwight and Bynum...but id not argue with him #2), Larry Nance who was Josh Smith if he had gone to college,and Hotrod Williams and Craig Ehlo. Both better players than they will be given credit for. Ehlo especially. hes known for just...having a(very well defended) shot made on him but he was kinda grimy. Played D. Shot 40% from 3 at times. could pass. Run the floor. Respectable role player. Steve Kerr was also hanging around doing the only thing he ever did.

Team could play defense, rough you up, shoot, operate in the post with Daugherty one of the best passing bigmen ever, Nance on the wings or in the paint, and good coaching.

More than once they were expected to come out of the east if things broke right for them(See the video for Reggie Millers opinion on the team to beat at the time).




My point isnt that all these teams were just great(Sonics especially)....but that the depth of solid talented teams from the time is probably understated when people just mention the Lakers/Celtics/Pistons/76ers.

too many times ive heard shit like "Outside of ____ nobody was jumping like ____ " or that only 2-3 teams were great at a time. It just makes me wonder why people state opinions with such certainty when they have not looked into it at all.

How does one watch the late 80s Blazers and conclude that such and such team would be too athletic for them?

Or see the Cavs and assume someone today would eat them alive(ive see it said of people trying to downplay Jordans great games vs them).

I could(and may) do 10 more on just the 80s and not even approach running out of talented teams.

You can believe its the golden age or dont....

But dont tell me there were only 3 or 4 good teams just because some absurdly stacked teams won all the rings.

There were plenty of 40 or so win teams back then id bet on winning 50 if they replaced the team that city has now.

And because of that ill ask....


Replace the current teams with the best version of the teams above....

Im not sure the Blazers dont meet the Cavs in the finals.

Im not sure what the Cavs do with Lebron...but its not like the Mavs had more capable defenders.

With the Celtics taking them to 7 and Pacers to 6? Id not bet against those Cavs.

Daugherty and Nance would feast.....




Oh and...anyone who watched the Bucks video....

How big a star could Brian Williams be today? Forget if hes even an all star as he was then...

Doesnt his game just look like the type the media/fans would love? And hes white? With that beard?

He would be guest hosting sportscenter.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and im expecting a "small market" argument to possibly jump off when someone mentions how nobody remembers these teams existing(Cavs aside...who are remembered because of Jordan).

I dont think that is the reason...at some point...you have to make the finals for people to care longterm.

But finals or not...talented teams.

[eliteballer]

Derrick Mckey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48PWr2AQ45c&t=3m00s

Act like you know:pimp:

[ProfessorMurder]

Awesome stuff as usual Kblaze. I like the Bucks video the best of the 5 so far. I just looked up Brian Winters and he was like 30/31 in most of those highlights and near retirement. Dude had moves.


If you're still taking suggestions I'd like to see an early 90s Hornets video. Bogues, Zo, LJ, Gill, Curry.

[Kblaze8855]

Derrick Mckey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48PWr2AQ45c&t=3m00s

Act like you know:pimp:


Mckey had game. not an all star type...but he could start ona title team no doubt.

And they should be ashamed for giving up at 29 point lead. But I called them talented....not mentally tough.

[Kblaze8855]

Awesome stuff as usual Kblaze. I like the Bucks video the best of the 5 so far. I just looked up Brian Winters and he was like 30/31 in most of those highlights and near retirement. Dude had moves.


If you're still taking suggestions I'd like to see an early 90s Hornets video. Bogues, Zo, LJ, Gill, Curry.

I assumed the Bucks video would be the least liked. Not much...flash..to that team. Watching some of their games last week I miss that style though. Back when they had lanier...beautiful inside out game.

And im gonna do something with the Hornets. Im just not sure what yet.

Kendall Gill could find his way into a couple things im working on. Zo as well.

[pauk]

Love your work Kblaze :applause:

[necya]

great great great :cheers:
if you need footage, i'm there.

[BlackVVaves]

Love your work Kblaze :applause:

Funny Pauk, because I faintly remember calling you out as you, in an attempt to make a case that 2012 Lebron was a better Finals MVP than 1984 Bird, said that the 2012 Celtics were a better team than the 1984 Bucks.

Maybe, now with featured footage to educate your LeBron infested mind, you'd like to openly address that statement? Or would you rather duck and dodge my sentiments as you did in every thread I approached you in that week?

:facepalm

Anyway, I digress. Great work as usual Kblaze. So many kids on this board are ignorant to basketball before them. Hopefully threads like this will open their eyes.

[1987_Lakers]

Who is talking during the intro of the Bucks video?

[Story Up]

Funny Pauk, because I faintly remember calling you out as you, in an attempt to make a case that 2012 Lebron was a better Finals MVP than 1984 Bird, said that the 2012 Celtics were a better team than the 1984 Bucks.

Maybe, now with featured footage to educate your LeBron infested mind, you'd like to openly address that statement? Or would you rather duck and dodge my sentiments as you did in every thread I approached you in that week?

:facepalm

Anyway, I digress. Great work as usual Kblaze. So many kids on this board are ignorant to basketball before them. Hopefully threads like this will open their eyes.

Sigh, nothing is more irritating then jackasses think they know the game because they're older.

[BlackVVaves]

The Bucks of the 80s were thorough. Typically a top 10 defense, and won their division title I believe 6 straight years. Only team to sweep Larry Legend in the playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

Who is talking during the intro of the Bucks video?

Its from the OC/Apollo brown album Trophies. its the intro. i'll see if I can find out who it is.



Sigh, nothing is more irritating then jackasses think they know the game because they're older.

I assure you...being told how good someone you remember is by someone who was 8 years from existing when they played...more irritating.

Its true that age and knowledge do not always go hand in hand. I know older fans than me who dont know shit.

But im not gonna argue with someone I know has paid close attention to the game for 40 years about how good Elvin Hayes was in 1977.

Some things you just cant read about and know. You can know better than people who have not even done that. But at some point seeing it has to count.

[BlackVVaves]

Sigh, nothing is more irritating then jackasses think they know the game because they're older.

Right, because watching and familiarizing yourself with a sport for a much longer period of time doesn't aid in a deeper, more comprehensive knowledge of the game.

You made such a great assessment, please tell me more.

[Story Up]

Right, because watching and familiarizing yourself with a sport for a much longer period of time doesn't aid in a deeper, more comprehensive knowledge of the game.

You made such a great assessment, please tell me more.
It's contextual you dipshit, a 20 year old guy can know way more about a sport through more extensive research then someone who is 60. Those older guys always want their respect bc they seen certain players play, it doesn't mean shit if you have poor understanding of the game.

[BlackVVaves]

It's contextual you dipshit, a 20 year old guy can know way more about a sport through more extensive research then someone who is 60. Those older guys always want their respect bc they seen certain players play, it doesn't mean shit if you have poor understanding of the game.

Hence the term "familiarizing" in my original post. It's more than just watching a game from the perspective of a fan. It's loving the game enough to study it and it's players as they evolve through history. It's not about memorizing statistics or obsessing over highlights, but being able to understand the context of a player's game, team, or era that extends past common knowledge.

[pauk]

Funny Pauk, because I faintly remember calling you out as you, in an attempt to make a case that 2012 Lebron was a better Finals MVP than 1984 Bird, said that the 2012 Celtics were a better team than the 1984 Bucks.

Maybe, now with featured footage to educate your LeBron infested mind, you'd like to openly address that statement? Or would you rather duck and dodge my sentiments as you did in every thread I approached you in that week?

:facepalm

Anyway, I digress. Great work as usual Kblaze. So many kids on this board are ignorant to basketball before them. Hopefully threads like this will open their eyes.

Really? That random context in your post popped to your mind when you saw my liking for Kblazes videos?

...and no i didnt say Celtics 2012 were better than 1984 Bucks, neither did i say 1984 Bucks were better than Celtics 2012, i never actually saw that Bucks team play enough, i merelly presented you with some facts..... which show that they had basically an equal winning percentage and that Celtics 2012 did play better in the playoffs (unless you think that Bucks team would have gone to Finals this year or also at least taken this Miami 2012 team to 7 games in ECF).... which showed also that the Bucks were a better offensive team, but the Celtics were a better defensive team...

If you think the Bucks were better, then go ahead... we agree to disagree... because i think they were just about around the same but in different ways (different systems, by facts/stats Bucks seemed to more of an offensive team compared to Celtics, while the Celtics showed to be a more efficient defensive team as they allowed ~12 less opponent points and the Celtics numbers improved much more in the playoffs compared to the Bucks in playoffs)... one of them might have been microscopically better, but nothing significant... we are not comparing 2010 Cavs vs 1996 Bulls here or something...

[BlackVVaves]

Really? That random context in your post popped to your mind when you saw my liking for Kblazes videos?

...and no i didnt say Celtics 2012 were better than 1984 Bucks, neither did i say 1984 Bucks were better than Celtics 2012, i never actually saw that Bucks team play enough, i merelly presented you with some facts..... which show that they had basically an equal winning percentage and that Celtics 2012 did play better in the playoffs.... which showed also that the Bucks were a better offensive team, but the Celtics were a better defensive team...

If you think the Bucks were better, then go ahead... we agree to disagree... because i think they were just about around the same but in different ways... one of them might have been microscopically better, but nothing significant... we are not comparing 2010 Cavs vs 1996 Bulls here or something...

I still think you're wrong, but we can agree to disagree. I was more astounded that you were so compelled to elevate Lebron's status that you'd say Bird's competition was not as difficult as Lebron's. Apart from that simply not being true, that's where my distaste arose from.

Anyway, I feel bad for derailing Kblaze's thread. So, as you all were :cheers:

[NugzHeat3]

Great job KBlaze, enjoyed watching all the videos.

I can't speak on the Bucks or Sonics. The Cavs in the early 90s were great and really talented team. Brad was a top 4 C during that time period and I don’t think anybody would argue with that. Price could be argued as the best PG in 1992 and 1993 though I won’t go that far. Nance was a really good PF and had a nice mid range game at the point which made him a nice fit next to Brad giving him more room. He could score in the low post when given touches though. He also ran the floor well and was their best defender mainly due to helping out on defense with his shot blocking ability. Ehlo was really solid too on defense, spot up shooting, could drive to the rim and often handled the ball up the floor with Price going off-ball, coming off screens. Sanders was a bit meh to me but he was on the downside at that point. Their bench was again fine with Brandon a very promising young PG and Hot Rod was a versatile big. Wilkins also came off the bench the year they signed him.

I consider them very unlucky because they didn't match up well with Chicago. Offensively, Pippen and especially Jordan were really a mismatch for them and that's despite the fact their perimeter defense wasn't bad. Ehlo and Sanders were solid and Jordan stopper or not, Gerald Wilkins was very good as well. Jordan did say they would’ve had more success had they not let go of Harper though. Horace Grant was usually a big factor too especially on the offensive glass because the bigs (Larry Nance) would usually help out on dribble penetration leaving space to crash the glass.

Defensively, Chicago had the tools to disrupt their offense. Cleveland had a huge edge at C but Bulls minimized it really well since they'd often apply their vaunting full court press forcing the ball out of Price's hands and forcing either Ehlo or Wilkins to handle the ball up the floor. That would take time off the clock a bit and it would also limit the # of times Price and Brad could run the PnR which was their bread and butter along with feeding Brad in the post. They'd also pressure hard on the ball handler trying to feed the post and when Brad would eventually get the ball, they'd double team hard forcing him to pass out. That would really take time off the clock and it'd result in a forced, bailout shot. Excellent strategy.

I've maintained their best shot was 1994 since it was a wide open year with Jordan out but injuries really hurt them that year and tore the team apart.

In today's league, I could see them being a major contender and working the Heat team that Indiana and Boston faced but that was with Bosh out for the series and he only played a couple of games vs Boston and not at 100%.

But against a healthy Heat team with a motivated James? I wouldn't bet on them. I see the same issue of them having trouble vs Wade and James and possibly putting their bigs in foul trouble which is where their advantage lies. Miami is really good scrambling on defense and I could see them double teaming well on the bigs + trapping the PnR which is where they were deadly.

It depends on the rules too though.

[Clifton]

And then the Cavs in the Mark Price era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaPX7dWpV-I


I did a mark price video once so I decided to focus on the less known guys from that team.

Depending on the year they might have Ron Harper(very poor mans Jordan), Daugherty(possibly the best center in the league today considering his offensive edge on Dwight and Bynum...but id not argue with him #2), Larry Nance who was Josh Smith if he had gone to college,and Hotrod Williams and Craig Ehlo. Both better players than they will be given credit for. Ehlo especially. hes known for just...having a(very well defended) shot made on him but he was kinda grimy. Played D. Shot 40% from 3 at times. could pass. Run the floor. Respectable role player. Steve Kerr was also hanging around doing the only thing he ever did.

Team could play defense, rough you up, shoot, operate in the post with Daugherty one of the best passing bigmen ever, Nance on the wings or in the paint, and good coaching.

More than once they were expected to come out of the east if things broke right for them(See the video for Reggie Millers opinion on the team to beat at the time).
Those Cavs are my favorite team that I never got to watch when they played. I love seeing footage of them though. I like them even better than the 80s Celtics, which is saying a lot. I would really have loved to be around for late 80s, early 90s NBA basketball.

[NugzHeat3]

Included in the video.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2zqeebl.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

Daugherty highly underrated.

[IGotACoolStory]

Wasn't he like 16 years old when he played at UNC under Dean Smith? Too bad about the injuries.

[magnax1]

I think under different circumstances Dale Ellis could be thought of in the same class as Reggie and Ray. Maybe not quite there but close. I think the fact that he changed teams and roles quite a bit took a chunk out of his statistical production, but on a per minutes basis he really doesn't look much different then Ray does right now. Ellis had 1209 games, with 20 points 4 rebounds 2 assists per 36, Ray has had 1148 games with 20-4-4 per 36, and at the age of 36 they both put up quite similar stats. Though most of the teams Ellis played for later kind of sucked (IIRC)

[RaininTwos]

Funny Pauk, because I faintly remember calling you out as you, in an attempt to make a case that 2012 Lebron was a better Finals MVP than 1984 Bird, said that the 2012 Celtics were a better team than the 1984 Bucks.

Maybe, now with featured footage to educate your LeBron infested mind, you'd like to openly address that statement? Or would you rather duck and dodge my sentiments as you did in every thread I approached you in that week?

:facepalm

Anyway, I digress. Great work as usual Kblaze. So many kids on this board are ignorant to basketball before them. Hopefully threads like this will open their eyes.

The 2012 celtics are a great team, I had the same side as Pauk, plus I felt the East as a whole was better this year than in 1984.

It's not an outrageous argument.

[Kews1]

whats the song on the warriors video???

school me

[Kews1]

dw! found it :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

I've maintained their best shot was 1994 since it was a wide open year with Jordan out but injuries really hurt them that year and tore the team apart.

Yea...they had a good year but brad missed over 30 games and then just totally broke down and retired at like 27 years old(though there was talk of him playing again even up to when Kemp was on the team).

You cant prepare for losing your co franchise player forever at that age.

They really could have done something. Had Brandon coming along nicely at the time.

Just didnt work out.

[Kblaze8855]

I read this while reading about Steve Kerr and didn't want to make a new topic....and the video I made on price is deleted by youtube so I didn't want to put it in that topic....




Kerr played on five championship teams--three in Chicago, two in San Antonio--but before that he spent some time with the Cleveland Cavaliers, where he went up against Mark Price in practice every day. As I noted in my article about Brad Daugherty (Brad Daugherty: From the Court to the Race Track (http://*********.com/articles/daugherty_friedman.htm)), Johnny Bach, one of Phil Jackson’s assistant coaches during the Chicago Bulls’ first threepeat, says that Cleveland’s pick and roll combination of Price and Daugherty was "the best in the business because of Price."

Kerr adds, "Mark really revolutionized the way that people attack the screen-and-roll. To me, he was the first guy in the NBA who really split the screen-and-roll. A lot of teams started blitzing the pick-and-roll and jumping two guys at it to take the ball out of the hands of the point guard. He’d duck right between them and shoot that little runner in the lane. Nobody was doing that at that time. You watch an NBA game now and almost everybody does that. Mark was a pioneer in that regard. He gave people fits with that little split. I think that during his era he was one of the top few point guards in the NBA and if you look at the history of the league you have to include him among the upper echelon of all the point guards who have ever played."



I really wish I could see Mark Price with todays rules. One of the best halfcourt points ive ever seen. He would be fine in the slowed down current NBA. His cavs often played that way anyway. But because of it his numbers suffered and he doesn't stand out to people looking at his stats.

But Mark Price would slaughter some of these current teams who cant defend the pick and roll.

http://oi56.tinypic.com/287j3vp.jpg