Replace KG With Dirk During His Timberwolves Years

[SilkkTheShocker]

Would they be more or less successful? I don't think they win a title, but they sure as hell get out of the first round more than once imo.

[Pushxx]

Miss the playoffs. KG played defense for 2-3 people. Dirk barely played defense for 1 person at the time.

[CJ Mustard]

Miss the playoffs every year.

[get these NETS]

yeah...dirk's scoring doesn't make up for the maniacal level defense that kg played those years

in playoffs, series swing on whether teams get can stops in big spots

[Bigsmoke]

Dirk was never as good as KG when he was playing for the Twolves so a guess they would be worse :confusedshrug:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Miss the playoffs. KG played defense for 2-3 people. Dirk barely played defense for 1 person at the time.


Dirk won a championship with a bunch role players. Are you seriously telling me he couldn't at the minimum carry some of those T-wolves teams to the playoffs? Sorry, but thats BS.

[willds09]

:wtf:
Miss the playoffs every year.
:biggums: :crazysam:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dirk was never as good as KG when he was playing for the Twolves so a guess they would be worse :confusedshrug:


Really? Becuase I seem to recall Dirk wiping his ass with KG and the Timberwolves in the 02 playoffs. And please save the "KG contributes in more other areas" stuff. Dirk took over in the 4th quarters when it counted. Leading your team in points, rebounds, assists, whatever...doesn't mean anything if you are still losing in the 1st round or not even making the playoffs.

[QUIZZLE]

KG's defense and rebounding ends this thread. They wouldn't have done near as good in my opinon.

[CJ Mustard]

Dirk won a championship with a bunch role players. Are you seriously telling me he couldn't at the minimum carry some of those T-wolves teams to the playoffs? Sorry, but thats BS.
:oldlol: Dirk got exposed after his championship cast disbanded. If he "carried" them to a title, why did the Mavs suck this season when they probably had just as much talent? Oh yeah, because he didn't have Chandler to anchor his defense for him.

[SilkkTheShocker]

yeah...dirk's scoring doesn't make up for the maniacal level defense that kg played those years

in playoffs, series swing on whether teams get can stops in big spots


Becuase those Timberwolves teams were real defensive juggernauts, right?

[guy]

About the same, possibly less successful. Not a big enough difference worth talking about.

I do think prime KG in Dirk's place on the 2011 Mavs wins a title as well. KG+Chandler and the rest of that team would've been one of the greatest defenses ever.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:oldlol: Dirk got exposed after his championship cast disbanded. If he "carried" them to a title, why did the Mavs suck this season when they probably had just as much talent? Oh yeah, because he didn't have Chandler to anchor his defense for him.


-Kidd fell off hard during the 11-12
-Terry regressed
- No Barea
- No Chandler

And LMAO at giving Chandler all the credit. Chandler was huge, but the Mavs weren't a bad defensive team last season. They didn't have anyone that could consistently score after Dirk. Terry is streaky, Vince Carter had been washed up for 2 years now, and they were relying on journeymen Delonte West to carry some of the offensive load. What a failure by Dirk for not being able to lead that beast team past OKC. You know, the same team that ended up going to the Finals :oldlol:

[FireMcFailPlease]

KG's defense and rebounding ends this thread. They wouldn't have done near as good in my opinon.
that.

[SilkkTheShocker]

About the same, possibly less successful. Not a big enough difference worth talking about.

I do think prime KG in Dirk's place on the 2011 Mavs wins a title as well. KG+Chandler and the rest of that team would've been one of the greatest defenses ever.

So are we going to act like KG is going to be someone we can reply upon to takeover in the 4th? Right. They would have to be playing some serious defense to avoid getting into any close games. Than the Mavs would be relying on a streaky Terry to carry them in every 4th quarter.

[get these NETS]

Becuase those Timberwolves teams were real defensive juggernauts, right?

despite an all everything defensive player like KG...wolves weren't a good or great defensive team

in key spots....teams would run plays towards the weakness of the defense..which was wherever kg wasn't.



with young dirk on team....a decent overall defensive team...becomes a worse one...and they run plays in the clutch directly AT dirk



NEXT


oh...and the thing about the old days.....they the old days

[CJ Mustard]

-Kidd fell off hard during the 11-12
-Terry regressed
- No Barea
- No Chandler

And LMAO at giving Chandler all the credit. Chandler was huge, but the Mavs weren't a bad defensive team last season. They didn't have anyone that could consistently score after Dirk. Terry is streaky, Vince Carter had been washed up for 2 years now, and they were relying on journeymen Delonte West to carry some of the offensive load. What a failure by Dirk for not being able to lead that beast team past OKC. You know, the same team that ended up going to the Finals :oldlol:
But I thought Dirk carried role players to a title? Oh wait, so he needs his role players to be playing the best basketball of their careers to "carry" them to a title, gotcha.

[knickballer]

:oldlol: Dirk got exposed after his championship cast disbanded. If he "carried" them to a title, why did the Mavs suck this season when they probably had just as much talent? Oh yeah, because he didn't have Chandler to anchor his defense for him.

Atleast he still made the postseason with a depleted and aging roster something KG couldn't have done :oldlol:

Dirk won the championship with Chandler, Terry, old Kidd, Barrea and Marion as his role players. KG wouldn't even get past the first round with that roster.

The fact that Dirk/Mavs haven't missed a postseason appearance since like 2001 proves alot that Dirk is the superior player.

[tpols]

Im sorry, Minny's defense would be all time bad with Dirk in their. Whose manning the paint? Whose covering for Minny's shitty perimeter defenders on the PnR? Dirk also tends to coast when it comes to defense/hustle/rebounding in the regular season as his numbers take tremendous spikes in the playoffs.. that means worse seeds and much harder competition. Theyd get smoked.

[CJ Mustard]

Atleast he still made the postseason with a depleted and aging roster something KG couldn't have done :oldlol:

Dirk won the championship with Chandler, Terry, old Kidd, Barrea and Marion as his role players. KG wouldn't even get past the first round with that roster.

The fact that Dirk/Mavs haven't missed a postseason appearance since like 2001 proves alot that Dirk is the superior player.
KG could have made the post season with an aging roster.

KG would get past the 1st round with that roster.

KG would have made the Playoffs every year since 2001 with those Mavs teams. KG is the superior player.

See how easy that was?

[Pointguard]

Dirk won a championship with a bunch role players. Are you seriously telling me he couldn't at the minimum carry some of those T-wolves teams to the playoffs? Sorry, but thats BS.

The SF and the SG positions had the toughest defensive playoff runs at those positions ever. The center won DPOY the next year. Their three point shooting was among the best ever in the first three rounds. Terry was the more efficient scorer in the clinching games.

[Mr Know It All]

Dirk has proven he can lead a mediocre cast to 50+ win seasons. KG could never do that, doesn't matter if he was a stat stuffer and a great defender, he couldn't carry a team on offense like Dirk could/can.

Look at Dirk's 2008/2009 roster which he took to the 2nd round and tell me he had much worse role players than KG had. Hell even the 2006 Finals team wasn't exactly packed with great talent. The only other all star Dirk has had since 2004? Josh ****ing Howard.

Get out of here with the "defense and rebounding" Dirk is every bit the player KG is and is twice the offensive player. Not to mention his ability to carry his team in late game situations. Only morons on ISH would ignore facts and spout crap like "defense and rebounding end of story" to prove their point. Dirk has already proven that trash wrong, and he is the better franchise player and team leader than KG. Sorry folks.

[guy]

So are we going to act like KG is going to be someone we can reply upon to takeover in the 4th? Right. They would have to be playing some serious defense to avoid getting into any close games. Than the Mavs would be relying on a streaky Terry to carry them in every 4th quarter.

Well he didn't have that problem vs. the Kings in 04. And yes, they would be playing some serious defense. The difference would be huge. Plus, Terry, Kidd, Peja, Barea all hit a bunch of big shots in that run. Plus, if Lebron plays like a bitch, it doesn't matter as much.

[AK47DR91]

Dirk won a championship with a bunch role players. Are you seriously telling me he couldn't at the minimum carry some of those T-wolves teams to the playoffs? Sorry, but thats BS.
See the Joe Smith salary scandal before you make a comment like this.

[Pointguard]

Would they be more or less successful? I don't think they win a title, but they sure as hell get out of the first round more than once imo.

KG lead those teams in nearly every category every year. Dirk scored about three points more than KG did during that time.

So now you are asking Dirk to steal, lead the league in rebounds, play defense, assist, block shots, actually guard the PF spot - much less the best defender over 6'7. Everyone of those Minnesota teams lacked in those areas so you really think Dirk could provide that when he never showed that he could. If Dirk ever lead his team in all of those categories they would be the Washington Generals.

[CJ Mustard]

Get out of here with the "defense and rebounding" Dirk is every bit the player KG is and is twice the offensive player. Not to mention his ability to carry his team in late game situations. Only morons on ISH would ignore facts and spout crap like "defense and rebounding end of story" to prove their point. Dirk has already proven that trash wrong, and he is the better franchise player and team leader than KG. Sorry folks.
Stop reading right there. Another one of those idiots who thinks averaging 3-4 more PPG = twice the offensive player. Name me one thing Dirk does on the offensive end better than KG outside of shoot? I rest my case.

[get these NETS]

I'd say that Dirk is the superior player

KG is the better 2 way player...but he can be alpha male on defense but NEVER on offense

years when he had the most success..he had 2 other guys who carried offensive load

when he got over the hump in Minny...it was latrell and cassell

when he won and almost won in boston it was pierce and allen


kg is perhaps the greatest complimentary player ever...next to pippen or bill russell



for what dirk is able to do....he had a great year when he put it all together and stepped up when he had to.....

[SilkkTheShocker]

See the Joe Smith salary scandal before you make a comment like this.
Your comment isnt relavant at all.

[tpols]

Only morons on ISH would ignore facts and spout crap like "defense and rebounding end of story" to prove their point. Dirk has already proven that trash wrong, and he is the better franchise player and team leader than KG. Sorry folks.
No he hasnt. Dirk needed a great defense and rebounding center next to him to defend the paint against slashing perimeter players. It's a fact. Any Dirk fan would concede that while Dirk's man/post defense is fine, his rim and paint protection are absolutely zero. You cant debate that.:oldlol: And only a moron who doesnt understand the mechanics of basketball would act like interior shot altering isnt extremely crucial as most easy buckets and overall points come in the paint.

Dirk is better on offense while KG is better on defense. They're similar players impact wise. Thats all there is to it. You're just being an idiot if you argue one extreme or the other.

[RaininTwos]

I dont think Dirk and KG have the same impact at all. Prime KG was a force

[LJJ]

If we make it so Dirk's prime coincides with KG's prime the difference won't be that big I don't think.


Nowitzki is good enough to carry a team to the playoffs most seasons, even a team with marginal talent. KG didn't do much more than that at all.

[CJ Mustard]

Look at the Celtics offensive statistics when KG is on the floor vs when he sits down, if I'm not mistaken he has (or had at one point) the highest +/- of any player in the 2011-2012 season. Even to this day he's among the best in the league when it comes to offensive impact. But because he doesn't score 25 a night, he get's overlooked offensively.


KG (past his prime) anchors the Celtics defensively, and is the most impactful player to their offense. This could never be said about Dirk at any point in his career, and it can be said about a 35 year old KG. Enough ****ing said.

[AK47DR91]

Your comment isnt relavant at all.
The role players Dirk had in 2011 are far superior than any of the scrubs Garnett had in Minny excluding that one 2004 season. And even that season, Garnett had an aging Cassell and Sprewell as his #2 and #3 guys.

It was actually remarkable that he lead the shitty Wolves team into the playoffs in a rough and tough Western Conference multiple times.

[Kblaze8855]

Dirk has proven he can lead a mediocre cast to 50+ win seasons. KG could never do that


So winning 51 games with a supporting cast of Wally(who missed 30 games by the way), Troy Hudson, Rasho, Mike Wilks, Joe Smith, 37 year old Rod stickland, Gary Trent, year left Kendall Gill, Reggie slater, Igor Rakocevic and Anthony Peeler...

What would you call that?

Point out to me the less talented supporting casts...all time...to win 50 or more games.

They might exist. But you would have to think hard enough to make it clear that its amazingly rare.

[LJJ]

Look at the Celtics offensive statistics when KG is on the floor vs when he sits down, if I'm not mistaken he has (or had at one point) the highest +/- of any player in the 2011-2012 season. Even to this day he's among the best in the league when it comes to offensive impact. But because he doesn't score 25 a night, he get's overlooked offensively.


KG (past his prime) anchors the Celtics defensively, and is the most impactful player to their offense. This could never be said about Dirk at any point in his career, and it can be said about a 35 year old KG. Enough ****ing said.

Garnett only won a championship after having two all star teammates on his team and a great supporting cast.

Nowitzki won a championship leading a team of roleplayers.


Like it or not, Nowitzki is an MVP level talent just like Garnett. There is no significant gap in terms of their overall ability. With the recent championship run, Nowitzki has a more successful career than KG too.

[miles berg]

They would win 50 every year.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I dont think Dirk and KG have the same impact at all. Prime KG was a force


KG was a force on teams that were the sacrificial lamb of the 1st round :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[RaininTwos]

They would win 50 every year.
:biggums:
win 50 what? t-shirts?

[CJ Mustard]

Garnett only won a championship after having two all star teammates on his team and a great supporting cast.

Nowitzki won a championship leading a team of roleplayers.


Like it or not, Nowitzki is an MVP level talent just like Garnett. There is no significant gap in terms of their overall ability. With the recent championship run, Nowitzki has a more successful career than KG too.
On a historically great defensive team anchored by him ....while being the teams leading scorer in the Playoffs.....not to mention being the teams best overall offense player by a ****ing landslide.

[LJJ]

On a historically great defensive team anchored by him ....while being the teams leading scorer in the Playoffs.

So? I never said KG was a scrub during his run. But anyone can recognize KG needed much more help than Dirk to do it.

[CJ Mustard]

So? I never said KG was a scrub during his run. But anyone can recognize KG needed much more help than Dirk to do it.
Right, that's why Dirk got right back to the mountain top the next season with a similar cast............

Oh wait, the 2012 DPOY and the Mavericks defense anchor went to NY so they got swept in the 1st round.

[Kblaze8855]

Dirk is leading Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, Foye, Craig Smith, Marko Jaric, Mccants, and Mike James to 50 wins coached by Dwayne Casey and Randy Whitman?

He led a team to exactly 50 and it had Terry, Kidd, and Brandon Bass all of which id take as individuals over any 2 of the above players along with Rick Carlisle coaching.

But he will see no dropoff with 2 of the worst cancers of their era and one role player anyone would ever desire....along with worse coaching?

That what im being told?

[LJJ]

Right, that's why Dirk got right back to the mountain top the next season with a similar cast............

Oh wait, the 2012 DPOY and the Mavericks defense anchor went to NY so they got swept in the 1st round.

Swept in the 1st round, sounds like a typical result for KG as a franchise player.

There is not a thing you can say to discredit Nowitzki's title run. Worst supporting cast of any run in the past 10 years.

[Snoop_Cat]

Swept in the 1st round, sounds like a typical result for KG as a franchise player.

There is not a thing you can say to discredit Nowitzki's title run. Worst supporting cast of any run in the past 10 years.

03 Duncan.

[RaininTwos]

Swept in the 1st round, sounds like a typical result for KG as a franchise player.

There is not a thing you can say to discredit Nowitzki's title run. Worst supporting cast of any run in the past 10 years.

That's so much bullshit. Just watching the games would tell you other wise.

If we played the name game, then yes, he had one of the worst but when you look at how they played, you cant say that with a straight face. At points he had Peja's corpse out there balling like it was 04. Terry was knocking clutch shots in Lebron's face. Tyson and Marion were playing elite defense and contributing the whole way through. Marion's hook shot was money almost every single time. He was in a zone. Barea and Kidd were playing great.

[fsvr54]

The 2011 Mavs went apeshit in the playoffs, every single player, so Dirk had a lot of help.

[imdaman99]

I'd say that Dirk is the superior player

KG is the better 2 way player...but he can be alpha male on defense but NEVER on offense

years when he had the most success..he had 2 other guys who carried offensive load

when he got over the hump in Minny...it was latrell and cassell

when he won and almost won in boston it was pierce and allen


kg is perhaps the greatest complimentary player ever...next to pippen or bill russell



for what dirk is able to do....he had a great year when he put it all together and stepped up when he had to.....
This

[LJJ]

03 Duncan.

Eh, arguable. Doesn't really hurt Nowitzki if that's the closest.


Nowitzki's title run still looks gigantic compared to anything KG has ever done.

[CJ Mustard]

Swept in the 1st round, sounds like a typical result for KG as a franchise player.

There is not a thing you can say to discredit Nowitzki's title run. Worst supporting cast of any run in the past 10 years.
Talk to me when KG losses a series he was heavily favored to win. Or gets swept in the 1st round coming off a championship season while losing only 2 real rotation players (one of which was replaced by a better player). If Dirk "carried" that team to the title, he wouldn't be getting swept the next year with a similar cast.

[dunksby]

Well it definitely would not improve the Wolves, I think they become even weaker. Come on now KG was a force.

[FireDavidKahn]

Dirk has proven he can lead a mediocre cast to 50+ win seasons. KG could never do that, doesn't matter if he was a stat stuffer and a great defender, he couldn't carry a team on offense like Dirk could/can.

Look at Dirk's 2008/2009 roster which he took to the 2nd round and tell me he had much worse role players than KG had. Hell even the 2006 Finals team wasn't exactly packed with great talent. The only other all star Dirk has had since 2004? Josh ****ing Howard.

Get out of here with the "defense and rebounding" Dirk is every bit the player KG is and is twice the offensive player. Not to mention his ability to carry his team in late game situations. Only morons on ISH would ignore facts and spout crap like "defense and rebounding end of story" to prove their point. Dirk has already proven that trash wrong, and he is the better franchise player and team leader than KG. Sorry folks.
If we are going to call what Dirk had on his teams as "mediocre" then Garnett had the worst supporting cast of all time.

[dtbrehm]

Probably would have been a first round exit.

No way the Mavs win last year with KG though.

[imdaman99]

I think KG would win more regular season games, but Dirk would win more playoff games aka past the 1st round a few times more.

[LJJ]

Talk to me when KG losses a series he was heavily favored to win. Or gets swept in the 1st round coming off a championship season while losing only 2 real rotation players (one of which was replaced by a better player). If Dirk "carried" that team to the title, he wouldn't be getting swept the next year with a similar cast.

Nowitzki had his highs and his lows, I don't say he's perfect.

But compared to Nowitzki's high, basically KG's entire career looks like a low.

[magnax1]

Dirk was winning similar amounts to what KG won in 04 most of his career, when KG basically had a team of Sprewell, Cassell and little else of worth, and that was worse then some of Dirk's worst teams, such as his 05 team with Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, and Finley, or his 08 team with Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, and Harris/Kidd.
So it is very clear that Dirk would not be doing much with something like KG's 03 team where all he had was Wally, Rasho Nesterovic, and Troy Hudson, and still won as much as Dirk's 08 team.

[tpols]

Nowitzki had his highs and his lows, I don't say he's perfect.

But compared to Nowitzki's high, basically KG's entire career looks like a low.
Nowitzki's high looks better than just about every player in the history of the game besides MJ Magic and Hakeem. His determination to take over games last year was just stupid. But it aint fair to judge off one year.

[RaininTwos]

Nowitzki's high looks better than just about every player in the history of the game besides MJ Magic and Hakeem. His determination to take over games last year was just stupid. But it aint fair to judge off one year.
this...cant be life

[CJ Mustard]

Nowitzki had his highs and his lows, I don't say he's perfect.

But compared to Nowitzki's high, basically KG's entire career looks like a low.
Right, that's why KG at 35 has the most impact on his team both offensively and defensively, while Dirk, at no point in his career could say the same.

[LJJ]

Right, that's why KG at 35 has the most impact on his team both offensively and defensively, while Dirk, at no point in his career could say the same.

KG has more defensive impact on his team without question.

Just like Nowitzki has more overall impact on his team without question. That's why he won a ring and a finals MVP with roleplayers on his team. While KG has a whole bag of first round exits to show for his prime, along with barely one decent playoff run.

These are the simple facts.

[RaininTwos]

KG has more defensive impact on his team without question.

Just like Nowitzki has more overall impact on his team without question. That's why he won a ring and a finals MVP with roleplayers on his team. While KG has a whole bag of first round exits to show for his prime, along with barely one decent playoff run.

These are the simple facts.

One of his role players won DPOY this year, you are trying so hard to underrate his teammates and their amazing performance.

[FireDavidKahn]

KG has more defensive impact on his team without question.

Just like Nowitzki has more overall impact on his team without question. That's why he won a ring and a finals MVP with roleplayers on his team. While KG has a whole bag of first round exits to show for his prime, along with barely one decent playoff run.

These are the simple facts.
I love arguments like this. Do you even realize what kind of "talent" KG had on his teams when compared to Dirk?:facepalm

[CJ Mustard]

KG has more defensive impact on his team without question.

Just like Nowitzki has more overall impact on his team without question. That's why he won a ring and a finals MVP with roleplayers on his team. While KG has a whole bag of first round exits to show for his prime, along with barely one decent playoff run.

These are the simple facts.
Except the the Mavs lost Chandler (and Barea, who was replaced by West and VC who are both better players than him), and went from champions to swept in the first round. While the Celtics damn near lost in the 1st round the year after they won the title when they lost KG, even with Rondo being twice the player he was the previous season.

Not to mention KG at 35 had the best +/- in the Playoffs.

[R.I.P.]

But I thought Dirk carried role players to a title? Oh wait, so he needs his role players to be playing the best basketball of their careers to "carry" them to a title, gotcha.

Somebody bump the thread where this ****tard called Dirk soft and said he

[bmulls]

Except the the Mavs lost Chandler (and Barea, who was replaced by West and VC who are both better players than him), and went from champions to swept in the first round. While the Celtics damn near lost in the 1st round the year after they won the title when they lost KG, even with Rondo being twice the player he was the previous season.

Not to mention KG at 35 had the best +/- in the Playoffs.

The best +/-??!!?

HOLY SHIT, BREAK OUT THE FCKING RECORD BOOKS

[Harison]

Wolves would have done worse with Dirk. A bit more scoring, combined with lesser rebounding, playmaking, and Dirk's Wolves wouldnt play defense at all.

As we can see with current Mavs (which are better than KG's Wolves) - they are 1st round exit team with no defensive anchor. Give Dirk worse team than that, and he would indeed struggle to reach the Playoffs.

[SilkkTheShocker]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Somebody bump the thread where this ****tard called Dirk soft and said he

[magnax1]

Really, calling Dirk's 2011 team a bunch of role players is stupid. He had one of the 5 best passers, 5 best defenders, the best sixth man, a very versatile SF, and a ton of depth. Calling some of those guys role players is like calling Dirk a role player because all he can do is score.

[CJ Mustard]

The best +/-??!!?

HOLY SHIT, BREAK OUT THE FCKING RECORD BOOKS
In 2012, I'm pretty sure. It was mentioned in one of the Celtics/Heat games.

At 35 he has the most impact on his team on both offense and defense. Something Dirk could never do.

[Harison]

Really, calling Dirk's 2011 team a bunch of role players is stupid. He had one of the 5 best passers, 5 best defenders, the best sixth man, a very versatile SF, and a ton of depth. Calling some of those guys role players is like calling Dirk a role player because all he can do is score.

Correct, to make it worse, those "scrubs" carried Dirk in the Finals. No DPOY anchor - bounced in the 1st round BEFORE the championship and AFTER it.

[Harison]

In 2012, I'm pretty sure. It was mentioned in one of the Celtics/Heat games.

At 35 he has the most impact on his team on both offense and defense. Something Dirk could never do.

Slight update - KG was 36 at that time :cheers: And yes, even such old guy was beasting like he was in prime again, including +/- impact on the team beyond the charts.

[FireMcFailPlease]

So? I never said KG was a scrub during his run. But anyone can recognize KG needed much more help than Dirk to do it.
dirks had players his whole career-nash, finley, jamison, terry, kidd, chandler etc etc.


kg had wally, sprewell and cassell.


and we win the 2004 nba championship if cassell doesnt get hurt in the playoffs

[ukplayer4]

idiotic thread, kg was everything for those timberwolf teams, dirk hasnt come close to kg's level of play in those days.

[bmulls]

+/- is just about the most pathetic argument you can come up with. Anderson Varejao led the league in +/-.

Are we all forgetting when Dirk swept KG in the playoffs in 01-02?

Are we forgetting KG had to jump ship and team up with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce to win a ring?

Are you really trying to act like JJ Barea, Deshawn Stevenson, Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler are some kind of all star cast?

Dirk was able to carry a team, KG was not.

[SilkkTheShocker]

dirks had players his whole career-nash, finley, jamison, terry, kidd, chandler etc etc.


kg had wally, sprewell and cassell.


and we win the 2004 nba championship if cassell doesnt get hurt in the playoffs


BS. 40 year old Malone gave KG fits in the WCF. Are you telling me he was going to have an easier time with the Ben and Sheed Wallace? No chance.

[Pointguard]

I'd say that Dirk is the superior player


If anything he wasn't that. I believe you can say he had superior impact but he wasn't more of a player. KG plays the most complete game possible at his position. Player means he playing the whole game. Not just scoring and at times great clutch scoring. Dirk isn't asked to do much more than that.

Right now Durant is Dirk on steriods. He scores more, and his shot seems to be more accurate, he creates better, can beat you off the dribble and he doesn't seem to get cold. Is Durant the player that Lebron is??? But let him hit the boards and start blocking some shots.

[kentatm]

:oldlol: Dirk got exposed after his championship cast disbanded. If he "carried" them to a title, why did the Mavs suck this season when they probably had just as much talent? Oh yeah, because he didn't have Chandler to anchor his defense for him.


Nice to see you remain dumber than dirt.

[shortsoptional]

Nice to see you remain dumber than dirt.

Yea.. i swear we see this same topic (Dirk vs KG) about once a month and it's just a merry-go-round.

I'm in the boat with what another poster already said. Arguing one over the other to the extreme is pretty dumb. Both are great players and work/fit better on different teams.

[Pointguard]

KG has more defensive impact on his team without question.

Just like Nowitzki has more overall impact on his team without question. That's why he won a ring and a finals MVP with roleplayers on his team. While KG has a whole bag of first round exits to show for his prime, along with barely one decent playoff run.

These are the simple facts.
Dirk played for a solid organization that built around him. Dirk has a lot of weaknesses that the team has to compensate for. Without Chandler, he didn't win a playoff game after winning the championship. That team won the championship on defense. Look at how bad Durant, Wade, Lebron and Kobe played. All four guys have a full career of being better at scoring than Dirk. And Dirk isn't some multidimensional player. He scores and hits big shots. And Jason Terry was more efficient at that than him in the last three games of the championship. He wasn't alone. Kidd lead the team in assist and steals, several had the 3 point shots down, Chandler protects the paint, all the starters have a bigger share of the defense, other players do the hustling, creating, pressure, Dirk wasn't rebounding. Its incorrect to say Dirk carried that team that won on defense.

Dirk's game isn't constructed to be more than a scoring piece. He can only be that piece of the pie. He helps the whole offense sure! but you can't credited with carrying a franchise when you rarely move beyond that half of the pie and he's not a point guard. Dirk's part of the pie was not like most other superstars. Every playoff team has this pie: A slice of defense, a slice of creativity, a slice of hustle, a slice of rebounds, control of pace, etc. Dirk can't be the leader in those things and that's what wins championships along with the clutch shooting. That team was made right, Chandler and Kidd they got a good part of that pie. Dirk was still the man but you can't turn to him and say give me more of that winning pie.

Without Chandler, more was required of Dirk and he couldn't stretch his part of the pie. So its not really a carry (the team) on Dirk's part. It never was.

[LJJ]

Dirk played for a solid organization that built around him. Dirk has a lot of weaknesses that the team has to compensate for. Without Chandler, he didn't win a playoff game after winning the championship. That team won the championship on defense. Look at how bad Durant, Wade, Lebron and Kobe played. All four guys have a full career of being better at scoring than Dirk. And Dirk isn't some multidimensional player. He scores and hits big shots. And Jason Terry was more efficient at that than him in the last three games of the championship. He wasn't alone. Kidd lead the team in assist and steals, several had the 3 point shots down, Chandler protects the paint, all the starters have a bigger share of the defense, other players do the hustling, creating, pressure, Dirk wasn't rebounding. Its incorrect to say Dirk carried that team that won on defense.

Dirk's game isn't constructed to be more than a scoring piece. He can only be that piece of the pie. He helps the whole offense sure! but you can't credited with carrying a franchise when you rarely move beyond that half of the pie and he's not a point guard so Dirk's part of the pie was not like most other superstars. Every playoff team has this pie: A slice of defense, a slice of creativity, a slice of hustle, a slice of rebounds, control of pace, etc. Dirk can't be the leader in those things and that's what wins championships along with the clutch shooting. That team was made right, Chandler and Kidd they got a good part of that pie. Dirk was still the man but you can't turn to him and say give me more of that winning pie.

Without Chandler, more was required of Dirk and couldn't stretch his part of the pie. So its not really a carry (the team) on Dirk's part. It never was.

Tyson Chandler has got to be the most overrated player on ISH. What did he ever do before or after riding Nowitzki to a ring? Chandler ain't shit. An above average defender, a nice roleplayer to have on your team. Nothing more. Just like 37 year old Kidd is a nice roleplayer, but not a shadow of his former self either. That team was all Dirk.


Forget that Nowitzki almost won a title with Ericka Dampier as his center, why don't you.

[shortsoptional]

Tyson Chandler has got to be the most overrated player on ISH. What did he ever do before or after riding Nowitzki to a ring? Chandler ain't shit. An above average defender, a nice roleplayer to have on your team. Nothing more. Just like 37 year old Kidd is a nice roleplayer, but not a shadow of his former self either. That team was all Dirk.


Forget that Nowitzki almost won a title with Ericka Dampier as his center, why don't you.


Come on man....

We all know Adrian Griffin carried that team... Him and Keith Van Horn were doin work!

[Pointguard]

Tyson Chandler has got to be the most overrated player on ISH. What did he ever do before or after riding Nowitzki to a ring? Chandler ain't shit. An above average defender, a nice roleplayer to have on your team. Nothing more. Just like 37 year old Kidd is a nice roleplayer, but not a shadow of his former self either. That team was all Dirk.

Forget that Nowitzki almost won a title with Ericka Dampier as his center, why don't you.

The argument is that Dirk is part of the equation. Chandler is the defensive anchor and that team won on defense. His part of the pie was hughe. Kidd controled pass and moved the ball. He also was great on defense. He hustled and got steals. His part of the pie was huge. The Matrix played great defense and hustled and made key baskets - his part of the pie wasn't small. Jason Terry scored and made clutch baskets his part of the pie was just like Dirk's.

The game is won on many fronts. KG had to be the man in every slice of the winning pie in Minny- now that's carrying a team.

[Smoke117]

Less successful. Dirk isn't superman as far as scoring and Kevin while I think was never a top tier great 1st option was still a good scorer, but just like everyone says...Dirk can just not replace the defense Garnett brings and his scoring isn't going to be enough to overcome that. Not to mention Dirk is nothing close to the playmaker Garnett was. A lot of people forget it now since he doesn't handle the ball much anymore, but the guy had ten straight seasons in a row where he averaged at least 4.1 apg, four of which he averaged 5.0-5.2 and one of those 6.0. He's also just a much better rebounder. There is nowhere to go but down for the Timberwolves if you replace KG with Dirk.

[LJJ]

The argument is that Dirk is part of the equation. Chandler is the defensive anchor and that team won on defense. His part of the pie was hughe. Kidd controled pass and moved the ball. He also was great on defense. He hustled and got steals. His part of the pie was huge. The Matrix played great defense and hustled and made key baskets - his part of the pie wasn't small. Jason Terry scored and made clutch baskets his part of the pie was just like Dirk's.

The game is won on many fronts. KG had to be the man in every slice of the winning pie in Minny- now that's carrying a team.

That's rich. 37 year old Jason Kidd takes a huge part of the pie.

But when KG has Terrell Brandon, Sczcerbiak and Chauncey Billups on his team, and a bunch of good roleplayer bigs, that's nothing right? Those were all guys who could average 20 a game if they were needed to. Those are All Star calibre helpers.

[Smoke117]

That's rich. 37 year old Jason Kidd takes a huge part of the pie.

But when KG has Terrell Brandon, Sczcerbiak and Chauncey Billups on his team, and a bunch of good roleplayer bigs, that's nothing right? Those were all guys who could average 20 a game if they were needed to. Those are All Star calibre helpers.

No what's rich is that Jason Kidd at 37 years old still made a bigger impact defensively than Dirk Nowitzki did. He may not have done much offensively besides set up the offense, but Jason Kidd at 37 years old was still one of the best defensive pg's in the league and was actually a bigger part of the Mavs defense than ****ing Dirk was so lay the **** off Kidd.

[FireDavidKahn]

That's rich. 37 year old Jason Kidd takes a huge part of the pie.

But when KG has Terrell Brandon, Sczcerbiak and Chauncey Billups on his team, and a bunch of good roleplayer bigs, that's nothing right? Those were all guys who could average 20 a game if they were needed to. Those are All Star calibre helpers.
Sczerbiak was a pretty bad player and Billups was only a fraction of the player he became.:lol Billups was a nobody in MN. Who were the good role playing bigs he played with during his prime? Terrell Brandon was a great player but it's too bad his knees blew up and that he didn't get to play with KG while he was in his prime.

Garnett had shit for team mates except for very early on in his career.

[BoutPractice]

More successful.

There's little need for hypotheticals, Dirk actually took a team that often started Jason Terry, Adrian Griffin, Josh Howard and DeSagana Diop to within a basket of the NBA championship, beating loaded Spurs and Suns teams along the way. He had no legit all-star nor defensive anchor by his side.

He then took a basically worse team to a 67 win season, an all-time great regular season record for a decidedly average team on paper. To this day, it still surprises me how he was able to squeeze 67 wins out of that group.

Dirk's teams have never missed the playoffs since he became an all-star. They've won 50 games or more 11 times in a row, in spite of an often very flawed roster after Nash left.

You can't just compare skillsets, adding and substracting X's defense or Y's passing. The only thing that matters on the basketball court is impact. It doesn't matter if your style of play is unorthodox. If it works, it works.

[RIP CITY]

It's my very strong opinion that if you traded KG for Dirk straight up during these years that the Mavs probably win another title at some point and the Wolves would be less successful. KG was just flat out a better overall player, better leader and was clearly more impactful overall because not only could he give you 20-22 PPG, which isn't THAT much worse than Dirk, but you could also run your offense through him as both the #1 option but also a point-forward type of role, he's a much, much better rebounder and defensively there is an enormous gap between the two. No doubt in my mind that Garnett changes the attitude of those Mavericks teams for the better with his mental and physical toughness. Garnett was those Timberwolves teams defense, without him they would struggle to make the Playoffs most years with Dirk's pathetic defense to replace it. And there is absolutely no doubt that the Mavs have had much better supporting casts around Dirk than Minnesota put around KG, Dallas have been one of the most talented teams in the League for most of Dirk's career, always going 7-10 deep with quality players.

[noosaman]

Tough to say. The West back then was much better than it is now. And Dirk was very young-it was a very young Dirkules who destroyed Garnett back in that 01-02 first round series.

However, if you put a prime Dirk on that Wolves squad you would have gotten to the second round or possibly the WCF.

And no way would prime Garnett have won a ring on that 10-11 Mavs team nor the 05-06 Finals squad. Dirk was unquestionably the best player in the world in both of those seasons.

[noosaman]

It's my very strong opinion that if you traded KG for Dirk straight up during these years that the Mavs probably win another title at some point and the Wolves would be less successful. KG was just flat out a better overall player, better leader and was clearly more impactful overall because not only could he give you 20-22 PPG, which isn't THAT much worse than Dirk, but you could also run your offense through him as both the #1 option but also a point-forward type of role, he's a much, much better rebounder and defensively there is an enormous gap between the two. No doubt in my mind that Garnett changes the attitude of those Mavericks teams for the better with his mental and physical toughness. Garnett was those Timberwolves teams defense, without him they would struggle to make the Playoffs most years with Dirk's pathetic defense to replace it. And there is absolutely no doubt that the Mavs have had much better supporting casts around Dirk than Minnesota put around KG.

I love it when someone just makes shit up to fit an agenda.

[RIP CITY]

I love it when someone just makes shit up to fit an agenda.

I'm sorry but your opinion doesn't count at all, you're the biggest Dirk Nowitzki fan I've ever seen in my life to the point of ridiculous homerism and blind support of him no matter what the subject. You are completely unable to be objective when it comes to Dirk. I don't have an agenda, it's my opinion that Kevin Garnett was a better player than Dirk Nowitzki and was a more impactful player on both ends of the floor.

[knickballer]

No what's rich is that Jason Kidd at 37 years old still made a bigger impact defensively than Dirk Nowitzki did. He may not have done much offensively besides set up the offense, but Jason Kidd at 37 years old was still one of the best defensive pg's in the league and was actually a bigger part of the Mavs defense than ****ing Dirk was so lay the **** off Kidd.


Are you kidding me? Kidd, Terry and Chandler weren't better than KG's 2004 supporting cast which consisted of Cassel(who was a 20/8 type of player), Spreewell(17ppg or so), and a bunch of other role players who knew their role. KG just couldn't carry that team like Dirk did last season..

And Dirk was lights out in the finalS. Do you remember game 2 when he went off on Miami and had the game winning basket? Or game 4,5, etc.. I think he had 3 game winners alone that series not to mention the monster performances he put up..

But I think since Dirk is an European he gets discredited.

[BoutPractice]

Dirk's supporting cast in 2011 was actually pretty solid. (KG's cast in 04 too, just not as much)
I love Dirk, but you can't diminish the contributions of Chandler, Marion, Kidd and Terry.

06 is a better example of Dirk's ability to carry an okay team to great heights, imo.

[PP34Deuce]

Dirk led Timberwolves are a playoff team every year that comes up short.....

Lets not forget Dirk is a better scorer and that would have them as a pplayoff team alone... The only diff is they would be like melo lead teams... 1st round and out

[noosaman]

I'm sorry but your opinion doesn't count at all, you're the biggest Dirk Nowitzki fan I've ever seen in my life to the point of ridiculous homerism and blind support of him no matter what the subject. You are completely unable to be objective when it comes to Dirk. I don't have an agenda, it's my opinion that Kevin Garnett was a better player than Dirk Nowitzki and was a more impactful player on both ends of the floor.


Well thats not true. He was better than Dirk up until 2005, before Dirk hit his prime and when Garnett was in his prime. Despite your assertion than KG was a "far better" defender, Dirk had a better playoffs rebounding average. The advantage Garnett had was on defense bu that's mitigated by the fact that Dirk is far more valuable on offense merely by his presence on the floor.

2010-2011 was a perfecte example of this--no one else on Dallas could create their own shot with Dirk off the court but with him on the court they got wide open shots and lanes to the basket.

[knickballer]

Dirk's supporting cast in 2011 was actually pretty solid. (KG's cast in 04 too, just not as much)
I love Dirk, but you can't diminish the contributions of Chandler, Marion, Kidd and Terry.

06 is a better example of Dirk's ability to carry an okay team to great heights, imo.

It was pretty solid but it was composed of role players which adjusted to Dirk's games. Kidd, Terry, Marion and Chandler at that point of their career's weren't #2 or #3 options while Cassel and Spreewell in 2004 were pretty much #2 and #3 options. Remember Sam Cassell had like 20 points and 9 assists that season.. Dirk was unstoppable in the postseason last season and teams put so much emphasize on stopping him but yet still failed miserably..

[noosaman]

It was pretty solid but it was composed of role players which adjusted to Dirk's games. Kidd, Terry, Marion and Chandler at that point of their career's weren't #2 or #3 options while Cassel and Spreewell in 2004 were pretty much #2 and #3 options. Remember Sam Cassell had like 20 points and 9 assists that season.. Dirk was unstoppable in the postseason last season and teams put so much emphasize on stopping him but yet still failed miserably..

When you consider the teams they beat (every team that a collection of better players) it shows how great Dirk is. They beat the piss out of a fully healthy Heat squad with JJ freaking Barea (where is he now?) playing a key role.

[bmulls]

If anything he wasn't that. I believe you can say he had superior impact but he wasn't more of a player. KG plays the most complete game possible at his position. Player means he playing the whole game. Not just scoring and at times great clutch scoring. Dirk isn't asked to do much more than that.

Right now Durant is Dirk on steriods. He scores more, and his shot seems to be more accurate, he creates better, can beat you off the dribble and he doesn't seem to get cold. Is Durant the player that Lebron is??? But let him hit the boards and start blocking some shots.

Is Jose Calderon a better point guard than Westbrook or Rose?

Your argument that KG is better because he "plays a complete game" is retarded. Calderon is a much more complete point guard than Westbrook, yet he has no where near the impact on the basketball court.

Do you realize KG is not even a 20ppg career scorer? And I laugh at these people praising KG's incredible play making ability which allowed him to average a whopping 1.4 more assists per game than Dirk.

[Bigsmoke]

On a historically great defensive team anchored by him ....while being the teams leading scorer in the Playoffs.....not to mention being the teams best overall offense player by a ****ing landslide.

that would be Paul Pierce.

[Bigsmoke]

dirks had players his whole career-nash, finley, jamison, terry, kidd, chandler etc etc.


kg had wally, sprewell and cassell.


and we win the 2004 nba championship if cassell doesnt get hurt in the playoffs

not to burst your bubble but the Pistons would have whooped you guys ass. :lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

One reason why Durant is luckier than Lebron is that his team was consistently bad during his first three years. OKC got Westbrook and Harden from draft, and leaped into a title contender team finally. Lebron's Cavs were in playoffs hunt(though missed the first two by a hair) since he arrived, and as a result the Cavs could not load themselves up with young guns. Imagine Lebron's Cavs drafted Dwight Howard in 2004 and Chris Paul in 2005. Dynasty team Id say.

So yeah... With Dirk the Wolves would have a few much worse seasons early on but the final outcome should have been better. Dirk would lead this team to lottery in his first a couple of years, until they get a solid young player(possibly a guard) to pair up with him. Its unlikely to see the same Timberwolves who kept making the playoffs but losing in first round. It kinda looked cool though, but the reason why KG has been playing all by himself without a second option.

[Simple Jack]

So winning 51 games with a supporting cast of Wally(who missed 30 games by the way), Troy Hudson, Rasho, Mike Wilks, Joe Smith, 37 year old Rod stickland, Gary Trent, year left Kendall Gill, Reggie slater, Igor Rakocevic and Anthony Peeler...

What would you call that?

Point out to me the less talented supporting casts...all time...to win 50 or more games.

They might exist. But you would have to think hard enough to make it clear that its amazingly rare.

Not that it matters in terms of your argument because the team was incredibly untalented for the rate they were winning but mentioning Strickland being 38 as if his age 100% describes his level of play is false. At least for me; when I think 38, I don't think 12/8 and nearly 2 steals a game.

[AMISTILLILL]

Weird, another Dirk agenda thread from this clown.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Weird, another Dirk agenda thread from this clown.

Whats the agenda? Do you seriously think if the Mavs would have won a title with KG instead of Dirk? I don't see it. You seem to like talking about me in all my threads. Get off my nuts, f.aggot.

[thelucifer69]

Replace Dirk With KG During 2011 playoffs would Mavs win Champ?

[noosaman]

Replace Dirk With KG During 2011 playoffs would Mavs win Champ?

1st round exit

[SilkkTheShocker]

Replace Dirk With KG During 2011 playoffs would Mavs win Champ?


2nd round at best. They would get their asses handed to them by LA

[R.I.P.]

Look this discussion is just retarded, because you build completely different teams around Dirk and KG. Switching teams proves nothing.


In all honesty both teams did a pretty poor job to surround Dirk/KG with the right players unlike the Spurs with Duncan in San Antonio. People want to say Dirk was always surrounded by this huge amount of talent, but they wasted a year of his prime with the triple PF formation with Jamison/Walker. They had centers from Bradley to Laettner to LaFrentz to Dampier to Diop to Haywood. Did any of them even play a meaningful minute in their basketball life after they left Dallas? Same story with KG in Minnesota. Give either a legit #2 superstar in their prime that complements them and they probably both win an extra title.

[Mach_3]

Becuase those Timberwolves teams were real defensive juggernauts, right?

Exactly now think how fckuing horrible they'd be defensively with Dirk being their anchor :roll:

I don't know if they'd even make the playoffs outside of like..04?

[Phiology]

Look this discussion is just retarded, because you build completely different teams around Dirk and KG. Switching teams proves nothing.


In all honesty both teams did a pretty poor job to surround Dirk/KG with the right players unlike the Spurs with Duncan in San Antonio. People want to say Dirk was always surrounded by this huge amount of talent, but they wasted a year of his prime with the triple PF formation with Jamison/Walker. They had centers from Bradley to Laettner to LaFrentz to Dampier to Diop to Haywood. Did any of them even play a meaningful minute in their basketball life after they left Dallas? Same story with KG in Minnesota. Give either a legit #2 superstar in their prime that complements them and they probably both win an extra title.

i think this is a very accurate quote. i like both players and think that of all recent players, duncan, garnett and nowitzki have to be considered with the no. 1 forward, whereas my ranking would be a)duncan, b)nowitzki c)garnett, even though i like nowitzki the most.

the question itself is laughable, nobody could tell, whether or not the Twolves team would have been better with nowitzki. but even considering the huge (time ago) defensive disadvantage, i would be pretty sure, that i would want to have nowitzki rather than garnett.

enuff people have already pointed out, that nowitzky lead a jokingly bad team to 2006 final and a team considering of roleplayers only to the title 2011, which was considerably the greatest playoff run of either all time or at least the last 10 years.

if anybodys overrating last years team: chandler really is a good player, and a needed addition, because even more than 5-6 years ago, nowitzkis defense was meeeeeeh. marion was the player defensively, he more or less was the last 7 years ago, made some freak baskets, but bricked everything he should have made. terry was good in the important games, in the rest he was just jacking up shots as always. kidd was merely helpful on either defense and offense, had just his sparks in the right moments. the rest were total boons.

garnett won his title with the first so called big three, where he was not even the first option. he was and remains a great player, and i admire him, but more to come:

whatever dominating person garnett has ever been (on both sides of the basketball floor for many years), he has always lacked this:

a) Nowitzki has no ego, and is such a unique type of player on offense, that he makes scrubs beside hin look like superstars. Good passer, focal point and double team monster, opens up for every teammate.

b) look at a) Nowitzki has no ego: i bet, if garnett stood at the Twolves, he would have won his title, but he chose to take the easy way. garnett is a so called "bad ass", and by that, he never made the life of the teammates easy, whereas in nowitzkis teams, everybody plays a certain very important role.

now seriously, even that you can compare that garnett left his team for success, which he couldnt even lead to a conference final, against nowitzki who did not leave his team after the 2009/2010 disaster is not even comparable. i bet if garnett stayed with his Twolves, in time he would have also won a title. at least, if he was that great.

[miles berg]

This is an argument that will never end, some are pro-Dirk, some are pro-KG. Their careers have always been matched against each other and always will be. It is just how it is.

But, just for a second, instead of trashing Dirk or KG to make the other one sound better, imagine if those two had been teammates through the 2000s and how many titles they would have won.

Hell imagine if they were teammates now, my goodness.

[veilside23]

Kg >>> Dirk ..

[Pointguard]

Is Jose Calderon a better point guard than Westbrook or Rose?

Your argument that KG is better because he "plays a complete game" is retarded. Calderon is a much more complete point guard than Westbrook, yet he has no where near the impact on the basketball court.

Do you realize KG is not even a 20ppg career scorer? And I laugh at these people praising KG's incredible play making ability which allowed him to average a whopping 1.4 more assists per game than Dirk.
Well keep laughing. LOL, during their prime the difference in scoring was 3 ppg - about the same as their rpg difference. And you are amazed at the slight assist difference??? Proportion wise both of these categories are much bigger than 3ppg. How about the defensive difference??? How about the versatility difference??? You're putting a lot of stock in one dimensional players 3 ppg difference. If KG wasn't leading the league in Rebounds and PER, leading PF in assist, tops among Forwards in defense, leading his team in blocks, leading his team in steals most of the time, and always having like 20 percentage higher shooting points than Dirk, 3 ppg is nothing. KG could have easily sacrificed in any of those areas to get two more baskets per game.

So yeah. Complete game when the scoring is only 3 ppg and comparing him against the games most versatile player ever and among its best defensively, yeah, having a complete game speaks a lot about their difference. Do you think you are kidding somebody???

[Pointguard]

Are you kidding me? Kidd, Terry and Chandler weren't better than KG's 2004 supporting cast which consisted of Cassel(who was a 20/8 type of player), Spreewell(17ppg or so), and a bunch of other role players who knew their role. KG just couldn't carry that team like Dirk did last season..

KG took over the guard spot in the playoffs and averaged more assist than Cassell did. Not cool for a PG at all. Sprewell was out the league the next year. KG lead that team in every category except steals - and was only a few behind Sprewell. KG played every position out of necessity. And nearly did it on both sides of the ball and was his team's defensive keg. You don't know what carrying a team means. No way could Dirk carry a team like that because you can't expect more from Dirk than his scoring. The rebounding is gravy, he does it well in the playoffs but he's never alone or just doing everything for his team to win. He scores and makes clutch shots.

Carrying is when you have to do a lot of things beyond the call of duty. Dirk rarely had to carry. His players stuck to their jobs and performed them well. They were solidily constructed teams. Certain guys hustled, certain guys blocked out, certain guys played great defense, certain guys killed it in transition, certain other guys helped take over the game, other guys controlled the flow/pace, other guys usually guarded the PF, other guys protected the paint, other guys penetrated, other guys did the setting up, other guys were the figure heads, and Dirk played his role. Now KG he did all of that. Whatever his other players couldn't do, KG had to play PG in WCF. You misused the word "Carry."

[Aussie Dunker]

Dirk is more of a specialist than KG -

That being said, the Wolves of the early and mid 00's needed EVERYTHING. KG played the role of primary scorer, primary distributor, primary defender, secondary defender, primary re-bounder... Now Dirk as great as he is, could not play all those roles the way KG played them. I still say they have similar success - but I would give the edge here to KG because was just able to do more for a team that needed everything...

Moral of the story - KG may be one of the most well rounded basketball players of all-time... And nothing against Dirk, as he may well be one of the most offensively gifted / well rounded players of all-time...

[DMAVS41]

Most of those Wolves teams would have been worse with Dirk based on their makeup...but as others have mentioned it proves nothing.

No way KG could have led the 06 Mavs to the finals or won the title in 11...just different players with different strengths and weaknesses.

Dirk does still seem to be criminally under-rated as a player by some here. Dirk for 12 straight years or whatever was pretty much going to get you 50 wins and play great in the playoffs.

But it is an argument that is silly because people continue to try and break players down in a very simplistic mold and basketball just doesn't work like that. KG gets propped up way too much doing it that way and Dirk is not given the credit he deserves as an overall basketball player that way.

[Floppy]

KG > Dirk

No number of rings is gonna change that.

[NumberSix]

Kg >>> Dirk ..
Yup. Obvious is obvious.

[RRR3]

What's with this stupid myth on ISH that KG couldn't score at a high level? :facepalm

He averages 19 PPG on 50% shooting for his career. He averaged over 20 PPG for NINE straight seasons (and over 22 PPG in 6 of those seasons). He's still a very good scorer to this day in fact, although obviously he has declined scoring wise, whereas Dirk hasn't really done the same. If Dirk hadn't won a ring last year, would anyone even be debating this? :rolleyes:

[TheBigVeto]

They would've won 3 championship rings.

[I LUV KOBE]

1st round exit at best

[NumberSix]

1st round exit at best
Kobe's heart

[Legends66NBA7]

The teams would also have to be different too. The T-Wolves team would have to fit on what the early career of Dirk's weaknesses were, while Dirk can focus more on what he does best.

I don't know if Dirk gets the same type of success, but he's definitely going to the playoffs, year after year (if the team mold center's around him and is built differently).

[WockaVodka]

I've never understood why people believed that KG should have gotten past the 1st round more than once in Minny. KG has never lost as the favorite in his career. Every time he was expected to win, he won. I'm not sure why people expected him to win a playoff series as the underdog and the massive underdog at that.

[tmacattack33]

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

KG did close to what Dirk did on offense, plus rebounded and played amazing defense.