Was Kobe's wasted peak (06-07) karma for 2004?

[Derivative]

Kobe's peak prime was in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons which I (a huge kobe hater) must admit he was he best player in the league. But he was surrounded by extremely bad teammates, and ended up wasting his two years of peak.

But is this karma for what kobe has done in 2004? Because of Kobe's selfishness, he chucked the favorites lakers out of a championship, cost Karl Malone's last chance to win a ring, Payton a chance a ring, and Shaquille's deserving FMVP (28ppg on 60% shooting in he finals).

Or it could be that the basketball god gave kobe to much early in his career (prime shaq and 3 rings), that Kobe must be brought back to reality.

Anyways, the only 2 years when Kobe was the best in the league, we couldn't see how he would do in the playoffs.

[RazorBaLade]

we did see how he did in the playoffs. he hit a gw and had a 50 pt game.

But anyways...... No. Just bad timing. in 08 and 09 he had worse scoring but better as a leader.. needed that period of losing imo.


btw karl malones age cost karl malone a championship

[Jacks3]

Yeah, it was all Kobe's fault. The rest of the team outside Shaq shooting 33%, Malone's injuries, Shaq's lazy play defensively and on the boards, and Payton's crappy play had nothing to do with it. It's all Kobe's fault. That's why the biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, right? lmao.

What a moron.

[KeyNote]

If Malone doesn't get hurt in game 1 (while the lakers were up double digits mind you) then that series is completely different

[SuperPippen]

Well, '07 wasn't his peak, I don't think many people actually believe in karma, and his play in '04 wasn't bad enough to warrant a wasted peak.

I would argue that Kobe's peak as an overall player came in '08, and he made the Finals that year. I don't think he had lost any of his ability as a scorer, was nearly as athletic, and flourished within the context of his team more than any other year in his career.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You know you are a legend when its been nearly ten years, 3 finals and 2 rings later and haters are stilling clinging to a bad stat sheet against the greatest defense of all time. :oldlol:

[Mach_3]

You know you are a legend when its been nearly ten years, 3 finals and 2 rings later and haters are stilling clinging to a bad stat sheet against the greatest defense of all time. :oldlol:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:




Also Karma doesn't exist.

[Heavincent]

How does that salt taste OP? :lol

[Mach_3]

Besides how would that be Karma anyway?Dude has been consistently blessed (compared to a sh1t ton of other NBA players) with some of the best rosters money and underhanded tactics can buy

[LakersFan626]

Kobe's peak prime was in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons which I (a huge kobe hater) must admit he was he best player in the league. But he was surrounded by extremely bad teammates, and ended up wasting his two years of peak.

But is this karma for what kobe has done in 2004? Because of Kobe's selfishness, he chucked the favorites lakers out of a championship, cost Karl Malone's last chance to win a ring, Payton a chance a ring, and Shaquille's deserving FMVP (28ppg on 60% shooting in he finals).

Or it could be that the basketball god gave kobe to much early in his career (prime shaq and 3 rings), that Kobe must be brought back to reality.
Anyways, the only 2 years when Kobe was the best in the league, we couldn't see how he would do in the playoffs.

2007-2008, 2008-2009, 2009-2010... Kobe was the best in the league those seasons too. The most clutch player in the game, three finals appearances, and two rings.

[RRR3]

2007-2008, 2008-2009, 2009-2010... Kobe was the best in the league those seasons too. The most clutch player in the game, three finals appearances, and two rings.
http://i36.tinypic.com/1ptcn5.jpg

[Heavincent]

2007-2008, 2008-2009, 2009-2010... Kobe was the best in the league those seasons too. The most clutch player in the game, three finals appearances, and two rings.

Yep.

[Doctor Rivers]

http://i36.tinypic.com/1ptcn5.jpg

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-gifs-and-zordons-gonna-zord.gif

[amfirst]

Kobe's best years was obviously when he was playing with Kwame Brown. Sad, if he only had one allstar on his team who knows how much further in the playoffs the Lakers would be.

It's was basically 3 vs Kobe night in and night out it was so bad. Guys were wide open but scare to shoot or couldn't hit a thing. Not even MJ in that position can do much better.

[lefthook00]

Same thing happened to Wade for a while, LeBron for a while in Cleveland, AI for a while in Philly, and KG for a while in Minny, etc. It's not karma, it's just what happens to superstars a lot of the time.

[kizut1659]

Actually Kobe wasted quite a few prime years of his career. His 2003-2004 season when he was 25 was a bit of a waste since he was out of shape and preoccupied with his trial, which is why his stats were worse than 2001-2003. His 2004-2005 was also a waste, as he just did not play to his potential and did not even make the playoffs. 2006 and 2007 seasons were a waste for the reason in this discussion thread. So basically, Kobe to a degree lost 4 years - from 25 to 28, which should have been his prime.

[I<3NBA]

who the **** cares? Lebron lost 9 years. nuff said.

[B]

Kobe's peak prime was in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons which I (a huge kobe hater) must admit he was he best player in the league. But he was surrounded by extremely bad teammates, and ended up wasting his two years of peak.

But is this karma for what kobe has done in 2004? Because of Kobe's selfishness, he chucked the favorites lakers out of a championship, cost Karl Malone's last chance to win a ring, Payton a chance a ring, and Shaquille's deserving FMVP (28ppg on 60% shooting in he finals).

Or it could be that the basketball god gave kobe to much early in his career (prime shaq and 3 rings), that Kobe must be brought back to reality.

Anyways, the only 2 years when Kobe was the best in the league, we couldn't see how he would do in the playoffs.Sometimes when a really stupid thought pops up in my mind I shake my head and laugh at myself..

You on the other hand run to your computer and decide to share it with the world

[TheCorporation]

Kobe's peak prime was in the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons which I (a huge kobe hater) must admit he was he best player in the league. But he was surrounded by extremely bad teammates, and ended up wasting his two years of peak.

But is this karma for what kobe has done in 2004? Because of Kobe's selfishness, he chucked the favorites lakers out of a championship, cost Karl Malone's last chance to win a ring, Payton a chance a ring, and Shaquille's deserving FMVP (28ppg on 60% shooting in he finals).

Or it could be that the basketball god gave kobe to much early in his career (prime shaq and 3 rings), that Kobe must be brought back to reality.

Anyways, the only 2 years when Kobe was the best in the league, we couldn't see how he would do in the playoffs.

2004 Finals stats:
Shaq = 27/11/2 on 63% FG
Kobe = 23/3/4 on 38% FG (2 steals per game too)

[mrbigshot1]

They didn't lose because of Kobe's shooting but rather because of Detroit amazing defense.

[AlonzoGOAT]

2007-2008, 2008-2009, 2009-2010... Kobe was the best in the league those seasons too. The most clutch player in the game, three finals appearances, and two rings.


I want to be a falcon too

[PistolPete44]

2004 Finals stats:
Shaq = 27/11/2 on 63% FG
Kobe = 23/3/4 on 38% FG (2 steals per game too)

:facepalm GOAT ? no way

[kennethgriffin]

it always makes me laugh when people say kobe wasted his peak... if anything.. he was able to showcase his tallent the way we would never have been able to see if he was always on a contender... 2006 and 2007 were some of the best games hes ever played.. i think 5 of his 60+ point games came from that time... his 81... his 65, his 63 in 3 qtrs


his prime was 2006-2010...

06 and 07 he showcased his individual play
08, 09 and 10 he showcased his leadership and ability to lead a winner


if he did just one of those things we never woulda saw both. and sometimes it takes rebuilding or a losing season to get some good picks or trades

and because of it they got marc gasol that turned into pau gasol... and bynum that turned into a great player... and odom that eventually turned into steve nash

so i aint complaining

the pistons beating LA and forcing them to rebuild sooner than later ended up heavily in kobes favor and boosted his alltime status by letting him prove himself without shaq

[kennethgriffin]

I want to be a falcon too


i want you lebron fans to quit thinking your opinion is the end all be all like your sh*t dont stink... yall speak like your a proffesional evaluator of tallent or something

wake the f*ck up

[NumberSix]

Dude, Kobe really was surrounded by an epic squad of scrubs. I mean, his team was Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Smush Parker, etc...

[Xiao Yao You]

It was getting what you ask for. He thought he could lead teams by himself. He found out it doesn't work that way.

[Quickening]

It was getting what you ask for. He thought he could lead teams by himself. He found out it doesn't work that way.
This. Only real special players can lead scrub teams deep into the playoffs, Kobe just found that his all round game just wasn't good enough.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, just like Lebrick.

[RRR3]

Yeah, just like Lebrick.
Lol u so mad lebron shits all over your lover boy Kobe :yaohappy:

[bond10]

it always makes me laugh when people say kobe wasted his peak... if anything.. he was able to showcase his tallent the way we would never have been able to see if he was always on a contender... 2006 and 2007 were some of the best games hes ever played.. i think 5 of his 60+ point games came from that time... his 81... his 65, his 63 in 3 qtrs


his prime was 2006-2010...

06 and 07 he showcased his individual play
08, 09 and 10 he showcased his leadership and ability to lead a winner


if he did just one of those things we never woulda saw both. and sometimes it takes rebuilding or a losing season to get some good picks or trades

and because of it they got marc gasol that turned into pau gasol... and bynum that turned into a great player... and odom that eventually turned into steve nash

so i aint complaining

the pistons beating LA and forcing them to rebuild sooner than later ended up heavily in kobes favor and boosted his alltime status by letting him prove himself without shaq

This. If he had 1-2 allstars on those teams, he wouldn't have put on scoring shows as much.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, just like Lebrick.

Don't you like LeBron ?

:confusedshrug:

[kizut1659]

it always makes me laugh when people say kobe wasted his peak... if anything.. he was able to showcase his tallent the way we would never have been able to see if he was always on a contender... 2006 and 2007 were some of the best games hes ever played.. i think 5 of his 60+ point games came from that time... his 81... his 65, his 63 in 3 qtrs


his prime was 2006-2010...

06 and 07 he showcased his individual play
08, 09 and 10 he showcased his leadership and ability to lead a winner


if he did just one of those things we never woulda saw both. and sometimes it takes rebuilding or a losing season to get some good picks or trades

and because of it they got marc gasol that turned into pau gasol... and bynum that turned into a great player... and odom that eventually turned into steve nash

so i aint complaining

the pistons beating LA and forcing them to rebuild sooner than later ended up heavily in kobes favor and boosted his alltime status by letting him prove himself without shaq

2005-2006 was already his 10th year in the league and his atheticism was already beginning to decline. He should have had much better 2003 and 2004 seasons.

[Heavincent]

I'd say Kobe was still at this peak in 09 and 10 anyway. He carried his team to 3 straight Finals appearances and 2 championships, so how can you say he wasn't still at his peak?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

To answer your question, I would say yes and no. Could Kobe's legacy have been dramatically different (in a positive way) had he and Shaq put their bullshit aside? Yes. Were his individual scoring performances unimpressive? No, but not winning titles, as I previously said, hindered his legacy to some degree.

BTW, Kobe's peak was from '06-08; his prime: '01-10.

[caliman]

2005-2006 was already his 10th year in the league and his atheticism was already beginning to decline. He should have had much better 2003 and 2004 seasons.


He averaged 30/7/6/2 on 45/84/38 shooting in 2003. That was probably his best all around season. How could he have been better?

[LA_Showtime]

I think Kobe would have put up those type of numbers prior to what you call his peak years. The only reason he didn't score as much was because he had Shaq on his team.

[NumberSix]

I'd say Kobe was still at this peak in 09 and 10 anyway. He carried his team to 3 straight Finals appearances and 2 championships, so how can you say he wasn't still at his peak?
:roll:

[Vienceslav]

Sometimes good players are just stuck on bad teams , it happens.
Kobe was in 7 finals so i

[LA_Showtime]

:roll:

He has an argument for the 09-10 season. Kobe was averaging like 32 points on +50% shooting through 30 some games. Then he got injured and obviously ended up having surgery on his knee over the summer. The broken finger didn't help either, nor did the fact he was forced back to the perimeter after Gasol/Bynum came back.

[Heavincent]

:roll:

How did he not carry his team? He was clearly the best player by far.

[UtahJazzFan88]

This. Only real special players can lead scrub teams deep into the playoffs, Kobe just found that his all round game just wasn't good enough.

:lol

Someone tell me a roster as AWFUL as Kobe's 2006-2007 roster. I don't think LeBron's Cleveland rosters are as bad. Wade had a bad roster in 2009-10 but not sure this bad either.

The only player worth ANYTHING is Lamar Odom, everyone else except Bynum on occasion were absolutely awful.

[LA_Showtime]

:lol

Someone tell me a roster as AWFUL as Kobe's 2006-2007 roster. I don't think LeBron's Cleveland rosters are as bad. Wade had a bad roster in 2009-10 but not sure this bad either.

The only player worth ANYTHING is Lamar Odom, everyone else except Bynum on occasion were absolutely awful.

He also played in the Western Conference. I see no reason why he wouldn't have got to the Conference Semifinals or even Finals in the East.

[Vienceslav]

Doubting that having Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as your starters is not that awful really exceeds the decent trolling limits.

[The Iron Fist]

To answer your question, I would say yes and no. Could Kobe's legacy have been dramatically different (in a positive way) had he and Shaq put their bullshit aside? Yes. Were his individual scoring performances unimpressive? No, but not winning titles, as I previously said, hindered his legacy to some degree.

BTW, Kobe's peak was from '06-08; his prime: '01-10.
The guy is 5-2 in the finals and thats not impressive? Let me guess, going 1-2 is.

[The Iron Fist]

He also played in the Western Conference. I see no reason why he wouldn't have got to the Conference Semifinals or even Finals in the East.
If that 07 team faced . 500 teams in the first two rounds its not that hard to believe they may have reached the finals as well.


Not one but two five hundred teams in the playoffs. Is that supposed to be some grand achievement?

[kennethgriffin]

2005-2006 was already his 10th year in the league and his atheticism was already beginning to decline. He should have had much better 2003 and 2004 seasons.


kobe peaked skill wise in 2006

skills will always >>>> athleticism

he still had amaizing athleticism at the time

and you act like 2003 and 2004 were bad years 1st team both ends both years

30/6/5 with 2 months averaging 40+, 12 threes in a game, 9 straight 40 point games.

then a year later he had to share the ball with 3 other hof'rs.. so his scoring dipped to 24ppg.. still a team high

[kennethgriffin]

:roll:

kobe was season mvp/finals mvp/finals mvp those 3 years numbskull

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The guy is 5-2 in the finals and thats not impressive?

Wait, what?

Kobe winning titles at his peak means he would have been more dominant.

[Odinn]

I do not think Kobe could play better than 2007-08 season in those seasons, if he had a winning team.

[The Iron Fist]

Wait, what?

Kobe winning titles at his peak means he would have been more dominant.
Who wins w smush, kwame, luke, etc?

[Odinn]

Wait, what?

Kobe winning titles at his peak means he would have been more dominant.
Wait, what?

Wasn't Kobe the one which was responsible for those 2 losses?:oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Who wins w smush, kwame, luke, etc?

Did you even read my post? I'm saying a peak Kobe (with or without Shaq) winning titles would have boosted his legacy.


Wait, what?

Wasn't Kobe the one which was responsible for those 2 losses?:oldlol:

Reading is fundamental, ISH.

[Odinn]

Reading is fundamental, ISH.
Actually that guy is on my ignore list. That's why i quoted from you.

[kizut1659]

kobe peaked skill wise in 2006

skills will always >>>> athleticism

he still had amaizing athleticism at the time

and you act like 2003 and 2004 were bad years 1st team both ends both years

30/6/5 with 2 months averaging 40+, 12 threes in a game, 9 straight 40 point games.

then a year later he had to share the ball with 3 other hof'rs.. so his scoring dipped to 24ppg.. still a team high

I meant 2003-2004 and 2004-2005 seasons - neither were as good as the 3 years preceding or the 3 following years. And the problem in 2004 was not just him sharing the ball with 3 HOF, as seen by his atrocious finals performance.

[kizut1659]

He averaged 30/7/6/2 on 45/84/38 shooting in 2003. That was probably his best all around season. How could he have been better?

I meant 2003-2004 and 2004-2005 seasons. I agree to he was as good in 2003 as he ever was, which is why the next 2 (and to a certain degree 4) seasons were a waste.

[The Iron Fist]

Did you even read my post? I'm saying a peak Kobe (with or without Shaq) winning titles would have boosted his legacy.



Reading is fundamental, ISH.
And again, who wins with the 05,06,07 rosters?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And again, who wins with the 05,06,07 rosters?

Again, nothing to do with my post. I'm speaking hypothetically here. Shaq/Kobe winning titles from '05-08 would have done wonders for Kobe's legacy. He certainly would have had more impact than he did in '09 and '10, years he was at the tail end of his prime.

No one wins that roster - but Kobe was dealt that hand after his childish feud with Shaq.

[The Iron Fist]

Again, nothing to do with my post. I'm speaking hypothetically here. Shaq/Kobe winning titles from '05-08 would have done wonders for Kobe's legacy. He certainly would have had more impact than he did in '09 and '10, years he was at the tail end of his prime.

No one wins that roster - but Kobe was dealt that hand after his childish feud with Shaq.
Good. Now stfu.

Dude has five titles already. His legacy is fine.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Good. Now stfu.

Dude has five titles already. His legacy is fine.

You fanbois are a joke. :oldlol:

None of this changes the fact he'd be historically greater with championships at his peak.

[TheFan]

Also Karma doesn't exist.

LOL exactly what i came here to post... speaking of karma in a world where some people get away with murder.

[The Real JW]

I would argue that Kobe's peak as an overall player came in '08, and he made the Finals that year. I don't think he had lost any of his ability as a scorer, was nearly as athletic, and flourished within the context of his team more than any other year in his career.

Agree with this.

He might not have had any 60+ point games in '08 but his 30/5.7/5.6 statline in the playoffs was pretty impressive.

[The Iron Fist]

You fanbois are a joke. :oldlol:

None of this changes the fact he'd be historically greater with championships at his peak.
Nor does it change the fact that hes one of very few players with five titles and is easily a top ten player all time. Typical of a moron to argue hypotheticals.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Nor does it change the fact that hes one of very few players with five titles and is easily a top ten player all time. Typical of a moron to argue hypotheticals.

Are you really this dense? I'm saying that Kobe, at his peak, would have enhanced his legacy had he won titles. The OP stated that he "wasted" his peak play. I disagree. But again, no one is debating whether Kobe has 5 titles or that he's a top 10 player.

Keep trying to find something that isn't there, kid.

[RRR3]

Are you really this dense? I'm saying that Kobe, at his peak, would have enhanced his legacy had he won titles. The OP stated that Kobe "wasted" his peak play. I disagreed. No one is debating whether Kobe has 5 titles or that he's a top 10 player.

Keep trying to find something that isn't there, kid.
The "Iron Brain" needs to stop talking to his "li'l mamba" doll:lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The "Iron Brain" needs to stop talking to his "li'l mamba" doll:lol

So obsessed defending his man-crush that he's not even reading posts. I'm actually praising Kobe. :oldlol: